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Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. >> And I'm Brett. >> And this is Maggie.
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>> She has a name. >> She has a name. She also is comfortable and has more energy. So, unlike last
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time, I don't know if she's going to zonk out for the whole episode. [laughter] And it is an episode that is a perfect
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example of why we need to keep cold cases alive, [music] why we need to keep revisiting them with
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fresh eyes. Because when a detective went the extra mile to name a victim who couldn't speak for herself, his work led
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to a break in a [music] case that seemed impossible to solve for decades. And it
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led him to another [music] case that could be connected. But police still need more information to solve these
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once and [music] for all. And so we need you, crime junkies, to listen closely and share these details
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far and wide in case someone out there is sitting on answers. This is the story of the Mahulland Drive murders.
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It's January 2003 and homicide detective Cliff Shepard is kicking off his year digging through boxes of paperwork in
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the LAPD's archive unit. Detective Shepard's an almost three decade vet of the department and he's recently been
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assigned to the cold case unit. though he's reviewing cases from the late 1960s, especially ones with evidence
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that can be tested with new technology. But the archives are a disaster. I mean,
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over the years, files have gone missing or haven't been logged correctly. Some case materials haven't been [music]
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touched in decades. And as he's sorting through it all, trying to make sense of a backlog that's gathered dust, like
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skimming case [music] summaries, trying to figure out which files are even complete. But when he pulls one box off
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the shelf and lifts the lid, he sees something that should never ever be in these boxes. A tan lace bra stained with
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blood, not sealed, not tagged, just like shoved in this box with yellowing case files. And this is not how he should be
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finding evidence. But like on the other hand, it like >> it's evidence. >> It's still evidence. It's like evidence
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with blood on it that may still be testable, which is like kind of exactly what he's looking for, right? So, he
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sees the file it's in belongs to the case of someone known only as Jane Doe 59 because she was LA County's [music]
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59th Jane Doe found in 1969. Even if the blood just belongs to this victim, like he sees huge potential to
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be able to use it to give her a name, which might actually kickstart an investigation that,
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>> as he goes on to read, didn't make it very far. So what he sees is that on November 16th, 1969, a 15-year-old boy
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was hiking Mhulland Drive to go bird watching when he found the woman's body in a ravine tangled up in branches and
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brush about 15 [music] ft down the hillside. LAPD arrived on the scene by nightfall and determined that the victim
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was white, about 23 years old, 5'9, and she had been stabbed in the neck over 150 times with what police thought was
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likely a small knife. Now, to them, it looked like she'd been stabbed while laying on her back, like maybe her
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killer like sat on top of her to like subdue her, and she had her head turned to one side because most of her wounds
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were on the side of her neck. But she fought back, or at least tried to block the blade from coming down on her
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because she had defensive wounds on her hands. Now, police didn't find the murder weapon at the scene, but they
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were pretty sure of one thing. This wasn't where she was killed. There were bloody drag marks left on Mhalland
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Drive, like her killer had parked there, dragged her across the road, and then put her body over the edge of the ravine
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until it like fell down the hillside. >> Were there any tire tracks nearby? >> None were mentioned in the case file,
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but you can see faint tire marks in some of the crime scene photos. Like, problem
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is police wouldn't have known how relevant they actually were because this was a busy road, so like it could have
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nothing to do with this. Okay. If this was a busy road, like how did no one see someone dumping a body here?
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>> Well, Mahalland Drive had or still has probably some stretches with like houses
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right by the road and then stretches [music] that just like hills and ravines on both sides. So, the area where this
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woman was found was more secluded, like still near some houses, but like none of
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them like overlooked this specific [music] stretch. So, no one would have seen this car stop from their window or
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anything like that. And it's very possible they dumped her in the overnight hours when traffic and
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activity in the homes would have been light. >> Mhm. >> There's not an exact time of death,
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though. All the coroner could tell during her autopsy was that she had been dead like 24 to 48 hours and she had
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eaten about 2 hours before she died. And there were no signs of sexual assault. Her clothes, a sweater, corduroy jacket,
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jeans, boots, and that tan lace bra, those were all still intact. And not much else is found at the scene until a
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few days later when a road worker turned in a pair of prescription glasses found
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nearby. Now, these were either missed by the investigators who did the initial search or they were left there after and
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like so therefore might not even be relevant. But either way, they looked like men's glasses and therefore
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theoretically could be connected to their killer. Definitely not their victims. Now, the CBC reported that work
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had already been done on this lead back in the day, and all that police really got to was that the prescription was for
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a very nearsighted man, but the brand was pretty common, so like it wasn't something they could actually trace.
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>> Could there be any DNA still on the glasses? >> So, Detective Shepard told us that the
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glasses weren't in evidence when he picked up the file. So, like I don't know if they're lost. I don't know if
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they were destroyed over time, but there's no trace of them. And so, like when he
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>> There's no trace of them. There's no DNA to test, >> right? >> Did they try to test her bra or anything
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else at the time? >> Well, detective told us that back then all the bra could have been tested for
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was blood type, but he didn't even know for sure if they did that or not. He also said that no one scraped under her
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fingernails or anything. So, like, you know, there were definitely missed opportunities for sure. And when no one
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came forward to claim this woman's body, that's when she became known as Jane Do
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59. They tried IDing her using the clothing that she was found in. They thought that basically what she was
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wearing was a little heavy for LA even in November. Plus, some of the clothes were made outside of the US. So, they
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started contacting law enforcement in Canada. They were contacting Interpol, checked with police throughout the US,
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ran her fingerprints, but nothing came up. And after that, the case just went real cold real fast. So, this is what
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Detective Shepard starts out with. This isn't the kind of case he usually looks for. Like no ID, no suspects, all the
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evidence is basically gone. And on top of it, Jane do 59 was cremated by the coroner's office because her body was
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never claimed. But there is this bloody bra, which at this point is like a north
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star for him. Now, Detective Shepard told us that LAPD was a little behind other departments on when they started
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testing DNA, but they finally got it going at around 2001 when the cold case unit was formed. So, this is like 2
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years before he picks up the case file. So, right away, he submits the bra to the state's missing person's DNA
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program. But even that was lagging behind. And this is really what he needs because he's looking to ID the victim
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first and foremost. So, results are going to take a while. And Detective Shepard has to put any investigation
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kind of on the back burner until he has something to investigate, >> right? >> But even with 133 cold cases on his
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plate, this one stays in the back of his mind. And he doesn't know what it is [music] that jogs his memory or why it
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happens one random day in 2005. But he starts thinking about the book Helter Skelter by Vincent Boliosce. It was a
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book that he read back in 1976, like very early on in his career. The author was the prosecutor in one of the most
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infamous murder trials in American history, the Tate Labianca case, which I'm sure like a lot of crime junkies
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know about. >> And Helter Skelter was basically like the first definitive account of the
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Manson family and their crimes. Anyway, for some reason, he feels compelled to pick this book up again. And what do you
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know? In the epilogue, there is a paragraph about Jane Do59. In it, Bulliosce floats his theory that Jane
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do59's murder might have been linked to the Manson family because of when she died. Her body was found a week and a
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half after the mysterious death of a Manson follower. By that time, the Manson family was under investigation
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for multiple murders. So, Bulliosce wonders whether she may have like witnessed the follower's death and then
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was killed to keep her from talking about it. Now, Boliosi is clear that he doesn't have any evidence to back this
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theory up, but honestly, it's not even all the Manson stuff that catches this detective's attention most. I mean, yes,
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it's interesting. Yes, it's how he got here. But it's another detail in that paragraph that stands out to Detective
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Shepard. Boliosi mentions the name of another young woman, 17-year-old Marina Haba, who was also brutally stabbed to
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death just 10 months before Jane do 59. And her body was found within 2 miles of
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Janeo 59's in a different ravine off Mhalland Drive. And now Detective Shepard is thinking, what if these two
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young women are connected? And if so, are they really connected to the Manson family? Or does he have a different
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serial killer on his hands? [music] [music] When Detective Shepard looks into Marina's case, he learns that it wasn't
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investigated by LAPD. It was in a different jurisdiction, so the sheriff's department took it, [music] which may be
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why neither department made any connections initially, even though Boliosi eventually did. But because
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Detective Shepard doesn't have the case file, he starts by reading through old news coverage. He learns that in
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December of 1968, Marina, a college freshman and aspiring artist, was home for winter break after her first
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semester at the University of Hawaii. She was staying at her mom's house off Sunset Boulevard, right where West
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Hollywood borders Beverly Hills. On the night of December 29th, Marina went out with friends to celebrate New Year's a
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little early. And around 3:30 a.m., her mom finally heard her sports car pull into the driveway. And then seconds
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later, she heard another car outside, [music] one with loud pipes. It sounded kind of like an older model. It's been
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reported that she told detectives she looked out her window and she saw Marina's car parked in the driveway
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[music] with a man standing next to it. And then another car, a black sedan, was
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also parked in the driveway. Now, I'm sure this all happens fast, but the black sedan starts backing out, and the
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man runs toward it, yelling something like, "Go!" before jumping in. And they speed off just as Marina's mom goes
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outside. But when she's out there, there's no sign of Marina. Even though when her mom checked her car, the keys
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are like still in the ignition. And in an instant, this bad feeling [music] just courses through her mom. And by
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3:45, she was on the phone with police reporting her daughter missing. When they arrive at the house, all she could
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tell them about the man she saw was that he was young, like not super helpful. Police do check out Marina's car and
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they made note that the glasses her mom said that she needed for driving and likely kept in her car, those were
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missing. They also noticed that the emergency brake was pulled all the way up, like as far as it can go. And I
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don't know exactly how they got to this from that, but they thought whoever pulled it used more force than Marina
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could have. They say because she was a smaller girl and like I don't know what this car is, but like I can fully pull
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up my emergency brakes. Like I'm think even thinking of like the trucks that I used to drive in high school like
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>> this. I don't know how accurate this is. Maybe we don't know the cars at the time
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or maybe men didn't know women at the time. That's probably that one. Yeah. So even though police were quick to dismiss
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missing teen girls as runaways at the time, that didn't happen here. They actually took Marina's disappearance
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seriously right away. And that might have been because Marina's mom told them that they had a close relationship.
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Marina didn't need to keep secrets from her. And because her mom was an actress and her dad, a writer in Switzerland,
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was in the industry, too, police wondered right off the bat if Marina may have been kidnapped for ransom.
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>> So, while her mom waited by the phone for a ransom call, police worked on building a timeline of Marina's last
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known [music] movements, pieced together by questioning the friend she went out with the night before, and her date, a
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family friend named John, who she had known since she was little. And John told police that Marina came over to his
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house in Belair on Sunday afternoon around 8:30 p.m. They got in a limo with this group of friends. One of their dads
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had like arranged it and they went to a club called Trouador, which is still in West Hollywood today. The group left at
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around 11:30 p.m. and the limo dropped Marina and John back off at his house. He says they hang out until like 3:15 in
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the morning when Marina left to make the 20-minute drive from his house back to hers. So, that timeline would put her
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back at around 3:30 in the morning, exactly when her mom heard her car pull in. [music] And we asked Detective
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Shepard what he thought about all of that, like if he thought Marina drove herself. And he said yes. He didn't
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think that whoever took Marina would go to the trouble of like driving her car back to her house, parking it in the
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driveway. >> He thinks it's more likely that she made it home and then was just taken as she
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pulled in. >> Okay. And [music] we totally believe John, right? Like I know anyone
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theoretically could have followed her, but can anyone confirm that Marina was actually there for those 4 hours where
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he said she was? >> So that's the thing. It seems like John was cooperative with police when they
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talked to him, but we don't know if anyone [music] backed up his story or if police just kind of took him at his
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word. I would love to ask John, but we just missed our window. He passed [music] away in 2024.
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>> And what did any of the other friends say? Like how was Marina that night? it
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was anything like off. >> So, this is the good news. So, we actually did get a hold of someone who
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was with her that night, like in that group, and it's Marina's best friend's boyfriend. And he told us the same thing
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he told police back then. Like, everyone had a good time. Everyone seemed to be in a good mood. There was no drama that
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he noticed. But, and this hasn't been reported as far as we know, he said that there was a rumor going around that
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night that Marina's boyfriend was [music] married. John. >> So, this is the catch. He didn't know
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the guy's name, but it was whatever guy she was with that night. And that night,
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her date was introduced to them as her boyfriend. So, like, we think so. I can't prove it.
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>> Yeah. We don't have anything saying definitively. Yes. >> Yeah. And we showed him a photo of John
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and he said John's face looked familiar, but all these years later, like he couldn't be sure if that is the person
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who was with them that night. Now, he did remember that the man she was with seemed a little older than the rest of
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the group. Most of them were around 18 to 21. I know John was 23, which you know, and at that age, it can feel
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older. And I had our reporter try and find out whether or not John was married at the time.
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>> Turns out John was. He and his wife got married and had a child in 1967. [music]
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So, why was he out on a date with a 17-year-old? And I don't know if his wife was asking the same question, but
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they got divorced in 1970, a little over a year and a half after Marina's murder,
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but then they remarried in 72 and then split for good a few years after that. >> So scandalous if it was him. I say if
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because again, we don't have 100% confirmation that John was the one with Marina. And according to the Chicago
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Tribune, Marina's family said she and John were just friends and she had a different boyfriend who they didn't
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name. Then a college friend of Marinas told the Honolulu Star Advertiser that Marina had decided not to come back to
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the University of Hawaii after winter break because apparently her boyfriend was going to be discharged from the army
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soon and they planned to get engaged over the holidays. So Marina wanted to transfer to a school in California to be
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closer to him. Now John wasn't serving in the army before the holidays, but he just graduated from college in 1968. So
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maybe Marina was talking about him, but for whatever reason, like she like fudged some details. Like it's the only
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thing I if she's talking about him, like some of the details are wrong, right? Like
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>> Right. And does the family know who the other guy is and they just like weren't
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saying? Is he real? Could she have made up a fake boyfriend cuz she was dating this older guy? She knew it'd be a
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little bit scandalous. >> I don't know. Marina's parents have passed away. Friends we reached out to
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haven't gotten back to us. Like I said, we got that one person who was there that night and our FOYA request was
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denied. So, we haven't seen the case files. >> That being said, if anyone out there
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does know anything about this or you were there or friends or connected to the family, email me tips audio check.
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Now, her missing person's case only stayed a missing person's case for 2 days because on New Year's Day, Marina's
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body was found. It was actually her purse that was found first at a Mullen Vista point. Nothing seemed to be
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missing. There's still money, credit cards, some kind of ID inside. And then her body was found a few hours later at
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around 400 p.m. Not far away. Police knew it was her right away because she was still wearing the outfit John
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described to them. Brown capries, a white turtleneck, and [music] a fur trimmed coat. She'd been stabbed at
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least twice in the neck, had six or seven stab wounds on the front and back of her torso, and there were signs that
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she had been strangled as well, and she had what looked like a cigarette burn on
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her skin. And along with two black eyes, her body was badly bruised. Now, the coroner couldn't confirm sexual assault
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at the time, but we spoke with detectives who said that Marina had been sexually assaulted, and it seemed like a
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sexual assault kit was done. But we are still unclear what happened to that kit based on our reporting. Now, here's the
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part that really stands out. When Marina was found, rigger mortise was still setting in [music]
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and fresh blood found in her lungs and airways hadn't clotted. Blood usually dries in clots pretty quickly. So that
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combined with the rigor meant that she likely died within 8 to 12 hours of being found. So probably between 4:00
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[music] a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on January 1st. Right. And very interesting, she had eaten recently and the food had
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moved to her small intestine, which happens about 2 to 5 hours after a meal. So that narrowed down her time of death
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to just a few hours after she ate. And just as an interesting flag, Jane Doe also ate two hours before she had died.
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Like almost like someone had had a meal with both of them, like they had both eaten a meal with possibly their killer
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before being killed. Yes. And it could have been multiple people >> because that's an idea that was
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entertained because they believe more than one knife was used to kill Marina. The coroner noted some of the stab
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wounds had two sharp edges. Other ones had one sharp and one rounded. Caveat here is yes that could mean different
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types of knives. But it also apparently can also just mean different angles of entry. So could be multiple, could just
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be one. But two makes sense like at least to me knowing that Marina's mom saw like a guy by the car and then
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another guy who yelled go >> right >> clearly to another person that he was with
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>> driving probably right. Yeah. But the question still is who and why. >> It didn't seem like a ransom plot to
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police anymore though. I mean they never got any demands before finding her. But
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they quickly find a new angle to explore. They said there had been multiple sexual assault attempts in
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Marina's neighborhood before she went missing. And they started to consider whether her kidnapping might have been
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[music] connected to those. So they put word out about this, even questioned at least one guy that they suspected in
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another abduction, but nothing [music] ever stuck to him relating to Marina. In August 1969, they investigated the
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Michigan co-ed killer, John Collins, because he'd allegedly killed girls from Northern California earlier that year.
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But John didn't even arrive in California until June of 1969, which is months after Marina's murder. So, he
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gets ruled out. Then came the Manson murders later that August. Then Jane do 59 was found dead that November. And in
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December, state officials sent LAPD a list of unsolved cases that might match the Manson family memo, particularly
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violent stabbing deaths. And that list included Marinas and Jane do 59s. Initially, they thought maybe Marina was
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stabbed with the same knife used in the tape murders by the Manson family, but that couldn't be proven. And then there
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was nothing else physically connecting the [music] cases. So, even though more was able to happen in Marina's case than
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in Jane do 59, they both ended up in the same spot by 2005, cold as ice, until Detective Shepard gets that bee in his
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bonnet and rereads Helter Skelter. But he has the benefit of hindsight. So he knows investigators in 1969 were eager
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to tie almost every unsolved stabbing murder to the Manson family at the time. And he's taking Boliosi's theory with a
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grain of salt. Like to him, yeah, okay, the Manson angle is possible. But without proof of that, anything is
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really possible. So Manson stuff aside, does he think that the two are connected
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for sure though? He thinks there are a lot of similarities worth looking into and he wants to see if Marina's sexual
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assault kit still exists so he can run DNA tests because if Marina and Jane do 59 were killed by the same person, the
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answer to both cases might lie in one piece of evidence. So soon after he contacts the sheriff's department about
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Marina's case, >> but he can't get much out of them. No one there seems to be actively working
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her case or even knows much about it. And it's not like he can go over there. Like he has no jurisdiction there. He
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can't go banging down doors. So he just like ends up not being able to get answers on her [music] case or answers
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as to where that kit is or if it still exists. >> Right. It could [music] just be like
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stuffed in a box somewhere >> like the bra he found. Exactly. And he ends up hitting another wall even in his
00:23:05
own case because the DNA that he does have isn't the slam dunk he was hoping for in May 2006. So, this is 3 years
00:23:13
after he submitted that bloody bra for testing. Detective Shepard gets word that the lab was able to recover a
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female DNA profile. But the only national database they can put it into right now is Cotus, which isn't showing
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any matches. So, this is great if you can ever find a family member to compare it to,
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>> but until then, she's going to still be Jane Do 59. [music] So, Detective Shepard has no choice at the time but to
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shift focus and tackle other cases with more promising leads. Over the next few years, his work helps bring down serial
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killers like I don't know if you've heard of him, Rodney Alcala, the dating game killer, Lonie Franklin, and Chester
00:23:53
Turner. In early 2012, he is set to retire. But still, in the months before he does, like he just wants to see Jane
00:24:02
Do's case solved. So, he reaches out to media outlets while he's like wrapping things up, hoping someone's going to run
00:24:08
her story. And someone out there will see it. Someone out there is looking for her. But almost everyone he turns to
00:24:14
turns him down, telling him to call back when he has a suspect [music] and a better story.
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>> But he won't have a suspect until he gets an ID, which he can't do without press, which you giving him.
00:24:26
>> Exactly. One person hears him, though. Michelle McNamera. >> Michelle. So, for those of you who don't
00:24:34
know, she was an incredible true crime journalist who wrote like infamous book, [music] I'll be gone in the dark. It's
00:24:41
incredible. Highly recommend. >> Yeah, she's she's pretty big in like the true crime space, right? And she is kind
00:24:47
of like us, right? She's like doing her blog. You're not like tied down by like these big organizations above you like
00:24:52
telling you what you have to get. >> You kind of pick and choose what she's going to cover.
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>> And she's like, I'll absolutely take this on. But unfortunately, right then, that's not what moves the needle.
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>> So, no one comes forward with new information by February 2012 when Detective Shepard retires after 37 years
00:25:09
with LAPD. He hands the case off to another detective, Lewis Rivera, and hopes that someone someday will bring
00:25:17
Janeo 59's name to light. But his work wasn't for nothing. Because in 2015, Detective Rivera gets a call from the
00:25:25
coroner's office. They've just heard from a woman in Canada who thinks Jane do 59 may be her sister Reit. And guess
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how she made the connection? Michelle's blog. She ends up telling Detective Rivera that she learned about the case
00:25:42
from a friend. She came across the blog post which had a picture of Jane Doe 59's face taken during her autopsy and
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she thought the woman in the picture looked like this woman, Reit Yervson. She was only 19 when she left Toronto
00:25:57
for LA in late 1969. Her friends and family lost contact with her after that and no one had seen or
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heard from her since. So, Detective Rivera asks for photos of Reed, descriptions of her jewelry, anything
00:26:09
that he can compare. I mean, you know, DNA is going to be like the ultimate judge. But before they can even get to
00:26:13
talking about that, the description this woman gives of her sister's jewelry seals the deal for him. She says her dad
00:26:20
had two rings made from an old pair of cufflings, one for each of his daughters. And a ring found on his Jane
00:26:27
Doe matches the one Reit's sister has. So after all these years, they finally know who she is. Jane Doe 59 is Reit
00:26:37
Yervson, and DNA ends up confirming it. I can't imagine that like what it must be like to find out that your sister who
00:26:48
you thought was just gone >> like her life like was actually murdered >> and not being able to claim her body is
00:26:55
heartbreaking. And because so much evidence was destroyed even though Detective Rivera knows who Re is he has
00:27:02
to start his investigation from scratch [music] to figure out who would want her
00:27:06
dead. Hector Rivera travels to Montreal [music] to interview Reed's family and friends. He learns that Reed was the
00:27:12
youngest daughter of prominent Estonian refugees. [music] Her mom's uncle was actually the last president of Estonia
00:27:19
before the Soviets took power. And Reed was the free spirit of the family. She spoke [music] three languages, loved to
00:27:27
make art, and she even sewed her own clothes. And after she graduated from high school, she moved in with her
00:27:32
grandmother in Toronto and got a job at a [music] post office. But before she left Montreal, she met a guy there in a
00:27:39
cafe named Jean or John. >> John, like Marina's friend, John, I realize it's a common name, but like
00:27:47
>> even though it is a wild coincidence, police say it is just a coincidence. >> Okay.
00:27:53
>> Now, this John, I'm going to call him Jean as was a John. This Jean might have
00:27:58
had a French accent. So, he was probably French Canadian and he had like long feathered like ' 60s rocker hair,
00:28:06
whereas Marina's John was cleancut. So, anyways, it seems like Reed fell hard for this guy. Sometime around September
00:28:14
of 1969, she followed him to LA, likely by bus, where he was thought to be staying with another friend of his, also
00:28:22
named, wait for it, Jean or John, also from Montreal. >> My god, >> I'm going to call him roommate Jean. And
00:28:28
then I'll call the other guy boyfriend John. >> And then there's also John with Marina.
00:28:32
>> Marina's John. [laughter] >> Got it. You got it. >> So on October 31st, 1969, this is
00:28:38
Halloween. Reit [music] sent a final postcard to her family from LA and she wrote that she was happy. She was going
00:28:44
to the beach a lot and the people were super nice. But this was the last anyone ever heard from her. Years later, a
00:28:51
friend of [music] Ree ran into roommate Jean back in Montreal long before Reit was ever identified and asked him about
00:28:59
her. [music] And roommate Jean said, "Yeah, she stayed with us for a couple of weeks. Everything was good, but then
00:29:04
she just left." Now, Reit did plan to visit her brother in Arizona. LA was always supposed to be just like a pit
00:29:10
stop, but we know she never made it to Arizona. So her friend asked roommate Jean if he had any idea where Reed could
00:29:18
have gone, but he's like, "No, all I know is that she left." At the time, Reed's friend didn't speak French well,
00:29:23
and roommate Jean didn't speak English well. So, it is also possible something was lost in translation, or maybe he
00:29:30
knew more, but like she didn't know how to get it out of him. I don't know. Okay. But if she disappeared in LA and
00:29:36
her brother was, I assume, expecting her in Arizona, why didn't anyone report her
00:29:42
missing or like wouldn't be the first time, did they? And the police missed it. Her family never filed the missing
00:29:49
person's report. Detective Rivera told us that because Reit was so independent and her family, we found out, was like
00:29:54
very religious and strict, everyone kind of just assumed she'd [music] chosen to
00:29:58
cut ties and just start over in LA. And they did actually send a friend living down there to check on her at the
00:30:04
address written on the postcard. But when the friend rang the buzzer, a caretaker answered and told her that
00:30:10
Reit moved out a while ago, didn't leave a forwarding address. [music] So this friend never went inside and knocked on
00:30:15
Reed's door or anything. And at one point, it's not like her family wasn't looking for her. Like they even hired a
00:30:20
PI to find her, but nothing came of it. And they said that the sketches police circulated of Jane do 59 didn't look
00:30:27
anything [music] like Reed. So they wouldn't have recognized her through those. And by the way, Reed's family was
00:30:33
okay with us covering her story, but they wanted privacy and they didn't want to speak for it. But in an inmemoriam,
00:30:39
her sister said they always believed Reed would [music] reconnect with them someday. Like they never imagined, even
00:30:45
in all their searching, that [music] she was actually dead. And the CBC found a note written by Reed's mom asking anyone
00:30:50
with information about her daughter to call her collect. So all those years, they never stopped looking for answers,
00:30:56
even before her mom died. And in 2006, Detective Rivera was fully ready to like pick up that baton that she had been
00:31:03
carrying before her death. And he starts with the address on the postcard Reed sent, hoping somebody like a neighbor
00:31:09
could give him information about Reed's last days [music] and about these Jean guys. But the
00:31:14
apartment building, which in ' 69 stood right next to Paramount Studios, [music]
00:31:19
it had been demolished by then. Now, he does eventually find a former owner, but
00:31:23
they don't have any records from [music] the time. And we're sure that roommate John isn't Merina's John or that
00:31:31
Marino's boyfriend. There's so many John's and like there's >> Yes. >> It feels so unlikely.
00:31:37
>> Yeah, I know. We've talked about boyfriend John was very different. The roommate Jean didn't match Marina's John
00:31:42
either. >> Okay, >> so just as like a quick description, boyfriend John, he's taller. He's like
00:31:46
over 5'9, has long dark hair, dark eyes. Roommate Jean, shorter, around 5'6. He had short black hair, blue eyes.
00:31:55
Marina's John didn't look like either of those guys. Okay. At least not in the black and white photos I've seen. It
00:32:00
seems like he had short, lighter hair, light eyes. Even though, interesting fact, her John, Marina's John did spend
00:32:08
time in Europe growing up. Like I don't know if he ever lived in France specifically. And it seemed like he
00:32:14
moved out of California pretty soon after Marina's murder, like probably before even got there. and then never
00:32:20
lived anywhere near her apartment or had any ties to Canada as far as we know. >> Okay. So, why haven't either of the Jean
00:32:28
guys come forward if they have nothing to hide? >> Exactly. >> And they'd be like what in their 70s
00:32:35
now? Yeah. >> I mean, they or someone who knew them >> should still be out there.
00:32:39
>> Yeah. Have to still be out there. >> So, yeah, that's how Detective Rivera feels. The problem is nobody seems to
00:32:45
remember these guys' last names after all these years. And tracking [music] down two guys named Jean from Montreal
00:32:51
who were in LA in ' 69 feels like looking for a needle in a hay stack. >> But Canadian media outlets do manage to
00:32:58
track down a painter who said that he remembered boyfriend Jean back then. This painter was a waiter in Montreal
00:33:05
and saw him with Reit a few times. And he thinks boyfriend Jean was a maybe a medical student. Maybe his name was
00:33:13
Pierre, but still no last name. So, this painter and a friend of Reeds eventually
00:33:17
sit down with a forensic artist to create sketches of both of these genres, which LAPD releases to the public. But
00:33:24
even having sketches, [music] those haven't led anywhere. We're going to put them in the show notes in case anyone
00:33:29
recognizes these guys all these years later. But like, who are they? >> So, I won't bring up the John's again,
00:33:36
but is there even a solid connection between these two cases? Detective Rivera doesn't really get to dive into
00:33:43
Marina's case right away, right? Like that didn't happen for him because we know they didn't have the files. They
00:33:48
didn't have anything. It doesn't happen for him till like 2016. This time, even though there's still no one actively
00:33:53
working the case, the sheriff's do pull those case files that Detective Shepard couldn't get access to. And he told us
00:33:59
that after kind of looking at everything, his gut feeling is that these are actually separate cases. He's
00:34:07
not closing the door on a connection between Marina's case and Reed's case. There's always a chance they were killed
00:34:13
by the same person, but with everything he knows, it feels unlikely to him. >> And maybe trying to connect these cases
00:34:20
to the Manson family and like then each other led to like blind spots for police
00:34:27
over the years. So, if we look at them separately, >> what are each of their like individual
00:34:33
theories for each case? if they aren't connected and they are standalone, like what does that what does that even look
00:34:37
like? >> So, in Marina's case, we're for sure side eyeing John. Okay? >> Right? Like, but there are other roads
00:34:45
to go down. Detective Shepard told us Marina's dad apparently had ties to the OSS, like the early version of the CIA
00:34:52
during World War II. And Detective Shepard said that he'd heard rumors or theories that the dad's work might have
00:35:00
somehow led to her murder. >> Uh, what was his work? So I asked our reporter Malikica Dollywal to find out.
00:35:06
It turns out he was training US soldiers in psychological warfare. >> Okay. >> Yes. So he was a journalist and his main
00:35:16
job was to make and distribute Allied propaganda to demoralize Germans, but he also interrogated German PS in one case
00:35:26
for 3 days straight. So he probably made some dangerous enemies along the way. And I would love to go all the way down
00:35:33
this rabbit hole. >> I mean, you see my face, >> but this is this is all we know, though.
00:35:37
Like, again, props to Malikica because you can't even just Google this stuff. Like the CIA started to declassify OSS
00:35:44
records in the 80s and now they're stored in the National Archives like in person.
00:35:50
>> Oh, so you have to like be there to access them, >> right? Which like we are not located
00:35:55
there and we didn't have time to go for the reporting. So, she got creative. I guess some antique dealers sell World
00:36:01
War II letters. And she found an online antique store selling a letter Marina's dad wrote to his superiors detailing
00:36:08
some [music] of his post-war work, which is like wild. Yeah. But here's the thing. All of
00:36:14
that said, according to Detective Shepard, it is probably unrelated cuz to him, and I understand what he's saying,
00:36:21
to him, Marina's murder seems more like a random act of violence, possibly sexually motivated, rather than like a
00:36:30
targeted attack >> to like get to someone else. >> Yes. Now, Marina's stepbrother actually
00:36:36
mentioned one possible suspect that fits in a 1988 LA magazine piece. He claimed
00:36:43
that a detective believed Marina might have been killed by a biker and a drug dealer named Spanky. Cuz interesting
00:36:51
fact, police actually when they found her body, they found an old motorcycle frame at the crime scene and they
00:36:58
actually took the whole thing into evidence. And [music] could they tie this guy to that motorcycle frame?
00:37:03
>> I don't know. Marina's brother didn't say why the detective suspected him. Like in my mind that's like, "Oh, I I
00:37:10
heard motorcycle gang and I know there's that piece there." Like I'm tying that together, but no one
00:37:14
>> ever really does. >> Now, we were able to identify Spanky as a man named Kirk Smith who has a
00:37:20
criminal record a mile long. He would have been about 18 in ' 69 when Marina was murdered. [music] And the first
00:37:27
charge we found on his record was from just a year later in 1970 when he was arrested for narcotics possession
00:37:34
[music] after an LAPD raid. In 1976, this guy escaped prison while serving a 10-year sentence. Don't know what for.
00:37:41
[music] And then he went on to rob 17 banks before being caught and charged with armed robbery. By 1980, he'd escape
00:37:49
again. And while he was in jail, awaiting trial for the attempted murder of other inmates in 1981, he became a
00:37:55
suspect [music] in a beating murder and a stabbing. But wait, there's more. While in prison, he joined the Aryan
00:38:03
Brotherhood. In 1987, he got involved in their conspiracy to murder correctional
00:38:08
officers as revenge for the shooting of another member. Now, we don't know if those were all the charges he faced. We
00:38:16
submitted a foyer request for his full file, but we haven't received that yet. And then he died in 1998, so we can't go
00:38:23
and try and talk to him. One of the most frustrating things kind of across the board that I've felt while
00:38:30
you've been telling me about this is like how we can't get access to anything, but also I feel [laughter]
00:38:36
like we wouldn't need to spiral as much if someone could just get their hands on
00:38:43
her sexual assault kit, which we might. So, from what Detective Rivera remembers, like there is physical
00:38:49
evidence in her case that hasn't [music] been tested yet. Now, is that the sexual
00:38:52
assault kit? Is it something else? I don't know. And I don't know what if anything has been done, will be done, or
00:38:58
could be done. And the question is, do they still have it? >> Because I do know that at some point
00:39:04
there was a pipe burst at the evidence facility. >> And so it's possible that the reason we
00:39:11
haven't seen or heard anything about this is that there's been water damage. Like, we haven't confirmed that with the
00:39:17
sheriff's department because it seems like somehow there still isn't anyone working Marina's case. So, like that's
00:39:23
[music] bad news, but also good news because maybe it is just sitting there and nobody's gone looking for it, but
00:39:29
like we're running out of time and like if someone in the sheriff's office is hearing this, like even just going down
00:39:35
and knowing that that was there that this could be solved, like I [music] beg of you to take 20 minutes. Now, we know
00:39:41
most of the evidence in Reed's case is long gone. Detective Rivera told us that the bloodstained bra has been tested to
00:39:48
death and only Reed's DNA profile has been pulled from it. And he said that Reed's murder, going back to like are
00:39:54
they connected? He just said Reeds felt different. [music] Like it was so personal and so full of rage. Like you
00:40:02
have to be angry to stab someone 150 times. And that's usually the kind of violence Detective Rivera sees when the
00:40:10
attacker is like an intimate partner. Now, both detectives believe the key to solving Reed's case lies in finding
00:40:18
those two Jeans, especially the one that she followed to LA. But maybe like Michelle McNamera's blog, one day this
00:40:25
episode will find the right person who remembers Jean. Now, [music] by this point, Detective Rivera has retired,
00:40:32
too, but he still works Reit's case as a reserve officer on a part-time basis. All of Marina's family and most of
00:40:39
Reed's immediate family who knew her are gone now. So, Detective Rivera is relying on the public, you guys, to come
00:40:46
forward with tips. So, talk to your parents and grandparents. Share this episode, especially if they lived in LA
00:40:52
or Canada at the time. And, you know, like to jog people's memories, contact police [music] if you knew Marina, if
00:40:59
you have information about her boyfriends or anyone who drove a black sedan. If you were with her that night
00:41:04
at the Trouador or saw a black sedan in that area, contact them. If you were on a bus with Reit from Toronto to LA in
00:41:11
the late summer or fall of 1969, or if you worked with Reit at the post office in Toronto and saw her with John, if
00:41:18
you, this is a little bra, but like knew any French Canadian men named Jean or Pierre who lived in LA in ' 69, or if
00:41:24
you lived at the Hollywood Executive Apartments on Melrose Avenue near Paramount Studios in late 1969.
00:41:32
And then there's the option of like, did you go to medical school in Montreal or
00:41:36
Toronto in the late60s and knew somebody who you went to school with who moved to
00:41:41
LA soon after graduation? I know that's a lot, but I'm trying to like add little
00:41:45
nuggets to kind of just jog your memory. But if you have any tips about either of
00:41:48
these cases, I'm going to put the contact information for both jurisdictions in the show notes.
00:41:53
Remember, they're held by a sheriff's office and LAPD. So, please call if you have any information. You can find all
00:42:00
the source material for this episode on our website crimejunkypodcast.com. And if you want to listen to more
00:42:05
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