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[Music] crime hi everyone and welcome back to the show made by the crime junkie Ashley
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flowers for those who are crime junkie AF so if you're new welcome me too but I'm glad that you're along for the ride
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and I swear this show came at the perfect time because the goal was to talk about big headline making type
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cases and I didn't know if we would have one every single month I had no clue how
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I was going to follow up last month's episode on John O'Keefe's case which by the way if you are not following the
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trial quit your full-time job it is the stuff of movies I'm going to try and maybe do a recap when the prosecution
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gets through with their side of things which might be in 2026 the way it's going but TBD either way I'm moving on
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today I want to tell you about the case that I've been eyeballs deep in for the last month Court docks out the wazo and
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I'm dissecting this one with my new crime junkie BFF renowned death investigator Barbara butcher hey
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actually hello um I say BFF because if you're listening to this live or you didn't see the episode before Barbara
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and I actually did a whole hourlong episode right before this one just talking about her career the cases she's
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worked this this woman has street cred you guys so I you have to check it out I need to dive into this case I have been
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itching to talk to you about it and I specifically wanted you for a reason because there is some really interesting
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forensic stuff happening with this case there sure is and this case is a roller coaster this one's knocked me out a
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couple times you said you fell out of your chair and it's one that has made national headlines so for those True
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Crime afficianados who subscribe to the it's always the husband Theory this is a
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case that has a very clear suspect that they have been quick to point to but there's some weird evidence there's a
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lack of evidence that gave the defense attorneys a lot to work with charges were filed and then dropped the
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defendant even brought suit against those who investigated him but recently the pendulum has swung again and there
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is a lot of questions in the case of Suzanne morio a cold case that gripped the headlines in one of the most
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high-profile murder cases in the state the Colorado mom who vanished on Mother's Day four years ago we are left
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with many more questions than answer what actually did happen to suzan so again I'm with Barbara butcher
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because the newest evidence that has been released in this case is suzan's autopsy report and you are going to help
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me not only understand it but try to interpret it and what this could mean for the case I also have a ton of
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questions about the scene itself and you were a death investigator but that doesn't just mean with bodies right like
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you actually can you give just a little bit of recap if people didn't hear the first episode sure my job is to
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investigate the body in the scene and to get the context of the death however um
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you know we always say the body belongs to me and the scene belongs to the police but the scene is mine too
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everything is mine everything is barbarous you guys and I've got plenty to say about this one oh I can't wait so
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all right I'm gonna give a highlevel overview of the case as Barbara and I break it down with the caveat of the
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fact that you guys should go read the court documents for yourself to really understand this there are so many
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details I am going to have to Omit just for time sake but the way that Suzanne's
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case started was on Mother's Day of 2020 so she and her family live in Colorado her two daughters are away on a camping
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trip her husband is had just left like early that morning for a job in Broomfield Colorado which is like 167
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miles away and they've all been texting her to wish her a happy Mother's Day or trying to call or whatever and no one
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can get a hold of her her daughters even say the texts aren't even being marked as delivered so they're starting to get
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concerned and they do a little phone tag and at some point one of them calls the
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neighbor to say hey can you go look is is Mom there is her car there is her bike there that she normally goes uh
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mountain biking with and at one point the neighbor calls back no I can't find her and Barry's like okay Barry's the
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husband you need to call 911 and so the police or the sheriff's office is then notified of a missing person they go out
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to Suzanne's home the scene around it because they believe that she's out on her bike somewhere and one of the first
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people that responders talked to is actually one of the daughter's boyfriend at the time so the boyfriend basically
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tells them listen she's a big mountain biker I think he was actually even one of the people who helped her learn how
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to mountain bike and and what was strange is he's like she normally takes her car with her and and takes the bike
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with her but her car is here and the bike isn't and they ask you know the question any crime junkie would ask any
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good inv get her ass like you know how's how's the marriage how are things going
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and he it's so strange in the video he like looks at his dad and his dad's like you need to answer like be truthful and
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he's like well you know they fight a lot but it's like normal marriage stuff and
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they specifically asked does she ride a lot on 225 this road by their house and he's like no like she I don't think she
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would ever ride there because it's almost like uphill like to difficult to ride he's like you would get off your
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bike and have to like push it up and we find out there asking him about 225 Because by the time they're talking to
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him which is really soon they've already found Suzanne's blue mountain bike and it was off the side of the road but like
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it the road just kind of drops off into a Ravine and her bike is there with the front tire like facing down and there's
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actually seen from the body cam footage of the officer who originally went and found it who by the way just like
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touches the [ __ ] out of that bike I don't know if you watched the video love chew it I mean he was all I was like
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stop I mean and I don't know what I know they probably thought it was a missing person but when you find a bike like
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this yeah I mean to me and again I'm a crime junkie but I'm like red flag maybe don't yeah absolutely like at some point
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I thought he was going to lick it like I was like stop touching that [ __ ] bike
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and and don't [ __ ] all over that scene why wasn't it everyone why wasn't it roped off not even just where they found
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the bike but the road itself the RO yeah dirt road tracks all kinds of things out
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there all kinds of evidence up there but people soon were gathering around and everyone was traing through the scene
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and touching the bike including the husband the husband eventually I know now there's there's
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one screenshot I took and I'm being my own little crime scene investigator and I like put a circle around it I put it
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in the document for you to look at because the theory that kind of comes up is pretty quickly is there like this
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seems stage they said there's well they say there's no evidence of tire tracks on that on that road again everyone's
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walking over it I don't know how much you can actually say that but there's like there's no damage to the bike
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there's everything looks fine and they're like we think someone just threw this over to Stage a scene there's like
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a part I see where it looks like the grass is like smooshed like is it possible that somebody was down there or
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anything's possible yeah but is it probable I don't know this this looks very odd I
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I I don't you know what if you think about bicycle being driven driv off the road let's say a car forces you off the
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road where you just you lose control you go off do you slide all the way down this slope you go down this far looks
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like it is pretty far it's far down and then what happens after that um do you lay down in this area of grass here this
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depression because you're hurt well H where's the footprints where's the disturbance of the
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vegetation the torn pieces of grass I don't see it but admittedly look this is a body cam picture yeah and then they
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didn't stay on the scene very long and this is the only thing that's been released that we have so they end up
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contacting Barry when Barry says he gets this call while he's out at a job site that the police are coming he tells the
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people he's working with like I've got a family emergency I've got to go and he does end up making it to the scene by
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the time it starts to get dark now when he gets there he's asking a lot of questions and
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here's what's interesting so in in a later arrest affidavit they will point to the fact that he kept saying it was a
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mountain line a mountain line a mountain line which I which I get like I which is
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a little bananas there's no blood at the scene there's whatever but it's it's not
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also completely accurate I thought that because what he comes out of out of his car saying is like was there was there a
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crash could it have been a mountain like he's asking what happened here yeah um he's scared and there's some back and
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forth about the bike and then they ask him you know okay well when is the last time you saw your wife and he says that
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it was when he left that morning for the job site sometime he said around 5: in the morning and when he left she's sound
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asleep they didn't interact because he didn't want to wake her up and then he just couldn't get a hold of her so they
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can they start getting suspicious pretty quickly and I think it's because of one thing in particular at
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least for me and again they they say the bike looks staged but they actually pinged her phone to
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figure out and I assume because they they were able to do that thinking that she could be hurt or endanger or
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whatever they ping her phone and they're like okay it was it last pinged in that
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area which is still right by their house so it's all it's it's pretty rural it might use the same Tower but it pinged
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around 4 a.m. which means that was before he said he left the house and there had been no activity since then
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yep and everyone says she she had her phone all the time she would a rode with her
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phone it is of course it's like 8:00 p.m. now yeah it's dangerous to go riding without your phone they start
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looking at this I think you know again despite touching everything I think they start thinking they've got something on
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their hands they start searching they start looking at things maybe the way they should have from the beginning
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pretty critically they find that her camel pack the backpack she wears with water that she always rides with and
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there's pictures of her all over her Instagram riding with this camel pack that's in her car yeah which like we
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said that her daughter's boyfriend said she always usually took her car to go they okay so there not only searching
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the house but they also send some search dogs out Barry gets them a scent item from their closet so dogs go out and
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search they go yeah there was something in that closet her padded bike shorts and her bike gloves yeah that's what I
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didn't know does she have more than I assume she was like an avid biker that she would have more than one pair we're
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going to get to that question mark but also who searched that house the family members and a couple of
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deputies did they do anything to protect that scene nothing this could be this is
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potential crime scene no they had family traes and this were there just like the
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John Benet Ramsay case everybody come on in and let's have a look Colorado is not
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doing well they're not doing well at all yeah you they've got they have a deputy
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walking with him cuz you see it from the body cam footage but to your point nothing is roped off they're not
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considering this a scene by any means at that point but they are noticing weird things so there was um one of the guest
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rooms I guess had the all of the bedding off of it and it was it was a room that
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was their daughters who was like away at college or something and you know they start to wonder like well where's all
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that the bedding is in the dryer it turns out and Barry says well she was getting ready our daughters were coming
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back she was getting the room ready for them right they were out camping so he has an excuse for it yeah now while
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they're out searching outside of the home for Suzanne they end up finding her helmet 87 miles away from her bike in
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the opposite direction right yeah but so so they this is this is a question for you so they think everyone keeps saying
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this is more proof that it was stage and I don't understand why this is more proof that it was stage I don't buy that
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no I don't um because let's just just just put a little scenario out just suppose some nut ran her off the
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road jumped out grabbed her put her in the car and threw her bike down now she's still wearing a bike helmet isn't
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she if she when she's abducted she didn't stop to take it off and then they proceed wherever they're going to be and
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the guy throws it out the window that's what I think you know that's perfectly reasonable yeah but also someone who did
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intentionally and knowingly kill her say a person that knew her and threw her bike down there to make it look like she
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crashed the helmet oh I forgot the damn helmet it's in the car now I got to go throw that somewhere else so there's a
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lot of ways to go here now I think it's pretty clear that they set their sights on Barry Suzanne's husband pretty
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quickly and you can see why so when they ask Barry about his marriage he says it's
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perfect which a wrong answer because there's almost no one who would call their marriage perfect when they start
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talking to people even their daughters so again one is in college one lives with them the one that lives with them
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even says that they were both in a quote unsafe space emotionally and that things
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weren't great they fought a lot um they say that they were still fine I I feel his daughters have been very supportive
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of him and it's interesting because what Suzanne tells her friends because they end up finding text messages that
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Suzanne sent her friend and what she tells her friend is that her daughters were like you need to leave you should
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you should leave him that she was really open with her daughters yeah but we only
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have that in from Suzanne in the text and then her what we get from the daughters is that they're very
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supportive of their dad and and at least in these initial statements to police they kind of downplay any kind
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of problems in the relationship potential emotional abuse stuff like that sure who wouldn't it's your daddy
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it's your dad so they do they find these texts to her friend Sheila um these are
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the ones that they kind of really point to over and over and these texts weren't
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necess neily like right before they were in the months leading up to this where she just is kind of telling her friend
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about how awful her marriage is and that she feels that he's emotionally abusive
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and controlling and she wants a divorce but he won't even speak of divorce and you know the the thing kind of playing
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in the background of all of this is I grew up in like a very religious home and like there's a lot of that you see
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come through in this where um he uses scripture against her when when you know he she doesn't want to keep doing the
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same thing over and you know you've got to forgive someone 70 times seven and I'm like all right come I know I know
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this brand of man yep um so it just she paints a picture to her friend that it's it's a very unhappy
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marriage and to back that up even more is authorities find her Notes app on her phone so they
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don't actually find her phone they're only able to pull data from what they're able to get from the cloud Apple
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30 days worth 30 but here's the funny thing with a subpoena you can get from Apple you can get 180 days so why did
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they stop at 30 I don't know why they only did 30 I my guess which is completely uneducated is they have been
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very clearly honed in on Barry and specifically on this like two days this like when a couple of hours and I again
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more is always better in my mind but I think they were so narrowly focused that like stuff that actually could even help
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them they didn't bother getting yep and I don't know if it's I don't know again I don't know how subpoena work I don't
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know if it's more difficult to get no subpoena is a subpoena you can get up to 180 days that's you know a reasonable
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request and the company gives it to you and that's that wild so why you maybe they said oh look 30 days is easier no
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it's not it's all the same same data you dump it and I wondered too they were able to get um Barry's phone because
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he's obviously there and turns it over what I mean again they were they're making a case here and I I almost wonder
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if the stuff Beyond 30 days just didn't help or made things harder to explain H maybe I don't know maybe not so in her
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in her Notes app so the morning of or the day before I think it was on the 9th so she goes missing on the 10th the day
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before on her phone at like 7 something in the morning her Notes app saves or backs up this list of what they call
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grievances against Barry um and and they're like some of it's a little in in code it just says like monkey app Fizz
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abuse mental abuse while drinking Nye name calling said I only need for money sign women on Facebook good for business
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I mean it's it's this long list um to jump out of car gun shame and guilt daily for not meeting expectations
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nothing to do with infidelity everything to do with your character and who you are at core your lack of control over me
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equals insecurities equals a sick relationship verbal abuse writing checks for cash out of business account writing
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money from invest I think it's invest IV account without asking or discussing monx in your name only this is important
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because it comes up later monx is a um it's like some kind of money transfer yeah it's a code that transfers money
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from you know internationally especially very easy to do wire transfers that way
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so uh accused me of BF boyfriend and hydro 56 so again she's missing on 510 and there's this accusation of a
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boyfriend wrote an allanon book which is a a sobriety thing right allanon is uh allanon is for the families and friends
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of Alcoholics okay it helps them to deal with you know the problem of their loved
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ones so that's what I that's what I haven't heard is like is what their relation to
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that is or who in the family might have been Barry makes a lot of accusations later about Suzanne abusing prescription
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drugs and drinking a lot no then she would be at you know Narcotics Anonymous or Alcoholics Anonymous or something but
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alanon you know some people go there just because their their partner is dysfunctional not necessarily primary
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alcoholic interesting okay but there you go but what's Hydro I don't know accuse
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me of BF boyfriend and hydro hydro is a very interesting word all right on 56 knew I was looking
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at phone in bonus question mark mm and I don't know what that means either so there's I mean there's a long list I
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think I think it's something like 60 things it's interesting so this this uh all came out in a court document I would
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love to know what suzan Dan thought so a lot of the messages we even get weren't
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even on the phone anymore they're pulling them just from the records yeah I feel like what would have told us
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maybe what she thought was this journal that she kept so she had a daily devotional book along with a journal A a
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leatherbound journal that they said she kept but that journal is completely missing nobody and and they find a
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binding of a book in the fireplace yep so potentially that book is no longer and was in the fireplace and it was bed
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the other physical evidence that they end up finding at the house is they say that there's a cracked door frame
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leading into the primary bedroom and this I'm like I don't I don't know man so it it's when you say
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cracked door frame what whatever I was imagining before I saw the picture wasn't quite it it is literally like
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where the locking mechanism meets the frame there is just like a line yeah through it and I would get right up
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close on that line and I would smell it it's Pine and when Pine cracks you can smell fresh pine right and I would look
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in there and see is it dust is it old is it I can tell immediately if that's a new crack or an old crack you can of
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course well no I guess I'm not a miracle worker but it's pretty damn easy you look in there there's fresh wood there's
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still splinters it would be a a lighter color than that outside which is varnished there so yeah I would smell it
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examine it look for dust in it and they don't mention doing any of that so the only the only thing they mention is that
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the previous owners of the home because they only moved into this home in 2018 so this is two that's two years before
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this is happening the previous owners of the home say that that wasn't there when
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they moved out that's two years ago yeah so what I mean also like if this was in
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my house I don't know that I'd be making even note of it yeah not that big a thing could have happened any time in
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two years so it's something they make of what does it mean I don't know not much
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to me other physical evidence on Barry himself his person on his arm there are I would call it two and a half yeah
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scratches that they think could be from Nails yep he says they were from bushes I think he said when he's outside or you
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said no for sure no I don't think so uh look again I I'm not I'm not having the ACT ual photograph in front of me except
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this this you know replicated one here electronically but these are nail marks you see the size you see the the pattern
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of it um nail marks in dragging like across just a little there not a a bush leaves a scratch a thin longer scratch
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these look a little deeper you see especially on that one on the far right you'll see that's a little deeper there
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and then that second one has a a crust in over so obviously serum or plasma you know blood came from the blood and
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sealed it up now you know this is the time where you you love to have visuals because people somebody said well why
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aren't the scratches on his hands or other places when a big man grabs you what do they grab you by your arms your
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upper arms and they hold you there so if your upper arms are restricted mhm what
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can you scratch right here here can you scratch his face no he's holding you like this you can't get his face you
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can't punch him I also think if he I I the way that I was thinking about it is if he grabbed her around her body yep
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and and you go like up by your by your chin that's your instinct is to grab that arm and these look like nail marks
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to me and and again I'm going to put the caveat on it that without the original photo which I can look at with a you
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know magnifying glass I can't say for sure but it doesn't look like Bush scratches to me here's question I
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have they you know I spoiler alert at the beginning I said you're here to talk about the autopsy report they end up
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finding Suzanne's body it's after years they find her would would there still be
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DNA under her nails if she did scratch someone if she had Nails yeah there might be what do you mean if she had
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mean like if if she made if these are scratches made if they were made by Suzanne wouldn't she have had to have
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nails to make them I mean the way in which she was found ah I see we'll get to that okay so
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they see that other than those two again I say two and a half because the other it's like it's very tiny other than
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those there does not seem to be any physical evidence on Barry's body that he was in an altercation that he has
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defensive wounds they also find a needle cover to a syringe in the dryer where they say that the sheets from that
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bed were and I'm like talking very very specifically because what you'll hear a lot of times in is that it was a dark
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cap and this actually gets conflated because it goes into this theory that they end up having but it wasn't a dark
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cap it was a a cap to a syringe needle mhm so the theory that they end up like kind of forming seeing all of this is
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that they thought it was clear Suzanne was going to leave Barry things had been building up for a long time he was
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realizing he couldn't control her anymore and he killed her mhm killed her with sedated her maybe sedated her yeah
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and they they do have this specific theory that he used some kind of animal tranquilizer to do it specifically
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pointing to the syringe needle which they keep calling a dark cap and and Barry is a big hunter oh yeah he they I
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think they were even had a deer farm back when they lived in Indiana and I mean this dude like his home is Antlers
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deer head Galore it's a little a little disturbing but yeah so they have they have their sight set on him but they
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don't actually have any proof not only that he did something but that anything has happened it is still early days and
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Suzanne is still just a missing person sure now some other reasons they think that he's looking suspicious is they're
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as they're getting more and more Digital Data from his phone his locations his truck his he's got some um excavator
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equipment the bobc cat that they keep looking at yeah completely a red herring they kept harping on this Bobcat that
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that looked like the front blade was clean and new and maybe there was a Dusty footprint on it yeah nothing so
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what does that mean that you went and Unearthed a big area to bury a body in or took a rock off a cave open they're
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obsessed with the Bobcat obsessed obsessed but but but uh spoiler alert nothing ends up they test the blade they
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test the like nothing they have a caber dog go in there nothing Bobcats a little
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bit of a like you said a red herring but they as they're getting all this other data there's just all this weird stuff
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so not only are they getting Digital Data from his phone and his car but they're also going to the hotel he was
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at the day that he Suzanne goes missing so he leaves at 5 o'clock in the morning
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to go to this job site 167 miles away and he says initially that when he gets the call that he needs to come back his
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wife is missing he's on the job site he has to leave it turns out he was like chilling in his hotel room at the time
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that's correct they know that because of surveillance footage from the hotel he was in there for for a long time and
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then there's also all this weird stuff he's doing around town that day so he goes to I think it's something like five
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different dumpster sites sure clothing store McDonald McDonald the the hot another hotel yeah five different sites
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five different dumpsters and pushing things down into taking stuff out of his truck on videotape on videotape but you
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can't you can't see everything I mean like there's you can see like a c thing one time you can see a pair of boots one
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time but then it's just like these um grocery bags almost sometimes and he says that this is just
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what he does he doesn't like to pay fees to dump things and so he goes and just dumps it at random dumpsters cleans out
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his car cleans out his car which was freaking filthy by the way which was a mess a mess when they looked at it there
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was plenty of garbage in there he could have he could have cleaned out more could have maybe it was really bad
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before so he does the thing is too he doesn't remember what he threw away is that suspicious or is it like if I was
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throwing away trash I couldn't tell you what I actually threw away yeah probably
00:28:05
well you know we could go either way with that yeah you go either way in a lot of things in this Cas we sure can so
00:28:11
there there the the activity itself is suspicious why are you doing that that's not it might be normal behavior for
00:28:18
Barry it's not normal behavior for most people the person who came to help him with his work they had gone to his room
00:28:25
after him and they said that the hotel room just smells horribly of bleach or chlorine now the people who work at the
00:28:33
hotel say the the room was under or right above the pool yeah so that would it's co time like things are getting
00:28:38
extra disinfected maybe maybe not the other thing that they have is on his phone what's so strange is so many calls
00:28:47
and texts between him and Suzanne were deleted yeah and someone said or maybe he said it was some porn sights but then
00:28:57
we hear later that wasn't really a porn site it was a popup ad for a porn site so yeah so it's
00:29:03
not just calls and texts there's some strange web searches about how to make you know one
00:29:10
of them is how do you make a girl orgasm there are at least one of them I remember was like so long and specific
00:29:17
yeah that like that to me seems like popup it it wasn't the kind of thing that I think anyone like types into a
00:29:22
search bar yeah yeah initially he was like I never I don't do that I don't believe in porn I don't watch that stuff
00:29:28
and then it was popups um but that like so much stuff is gone from his phone his phone also shows
00:29:35
him going in and out of airplane mode yes purportedly and I I say it with a great
00:29:42
deal of caution it was rumored that or it was it was determined by the the download of the phone and the analytics
00:29:50
that it was in and out of airplane mode meaning it wasn't trackable at that time
00:29:56
and now there is something else to mention though here he was supposed to on that Sunday the 10th M he had told
00:30:02
his his coworker his his employee that he was going to pick her up at 5:00 P p.m. to go to the job
00:30:11
and no he left at 5 a.m. and never said to her I'm not picking you up just didn't explain it he just called her
00:30:20
later and said you know we're going to need another person here bring another person she was like all right whatever
00:30:25
which to your point it is it's 5:00 p.m. if you have a job on Monday makes sense
00:30:29
sure it's Mother's Day yeah you should be there you think yeah but maybe you know the girls aren't home sure the
00:30:35
girls are out with their friends but it is strange that he didn't even tell this
00:30:39
coworker hey I'm not picking you up hey I'm going 12 hours early yeah a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense and it
00:30:44
keeps not making sense because even that him leaving at 5:00 a.m. he says he leaves at 5:00 sees her sleeping well
00:30:51
they're like surprise surprise we have your truck data and we have you at 400 a.m. yes going the opposite direction of
00:31:00
where you need to go in Broomfield and right around and again this is very general areas going around
00:31:07
the area where I don't know if it was her bike or her helmet but one of those hel the helmet was found hel yeah 87
00:31:12
miles from the house opposite direction he says he's a super Hunter and so he's like going and he's like I could go
00:31:19
right I could go left and he's like and I look and I see some I can't remember what kind of big animal it was some big
00:31:24
animal Big Moose or an elk and he's like I got to go look at this thing thing and
00:31:28
so he drives to look at this thing and then he decides to go the other way and go to his job site turn around um which
00:31:34
initially again never part of the narrative right like only when he is presented with evidence and this is a
00:31:40
this is a common thing with him is that he has the story when he is presented with evidence the story changes it
00:31:48
evolves it Evol evolves I like that it Evol good word good word and this happened again with something else so
00:31:56
one of the things that they have are these GPS locations and they actually have a pretty big home it's this $1.7
00:32:02
million thing and I didn't realize that you could track someone physically like room to
00:32:09
room yeah well you can't it turns out they they say they have tracked him when he got home that day because on her
00:32:18
phone and I think that this is important to know on her phone well they end up narrowing down like the time frame that
00:32:26
they think something happened to her and at this time he they think he comes home
00:32:30
and they see him like bouncing all over the house this is on Saturday the 9th uh
00:32:34
the day before Mother's Day yes the afternoon 2:30 something yes and they're like your phone's bouncing all over the
00:32:40
house and so they come up with this theory that he got home and he's chasing her around yes and so and again that was
00:32:48
never part of his story when they present him with this he doesn't say and this is where it's like he doesn't say
00:32:55
that's not what happened like I didn't I wasn't doing anything thing he he tells
00:32:59
them that he often chases Chipmunks around their property he shoots Chipmunks he's shot like 85 Chipmunks a
00:33:06
I know he's he's very impressive so he puts himself at his home with some kind of gun shooting
00:33:14
Chipmunks I mean it later comes out that that's they actually couldn't track his
00:33:19
location that's right because static drift now he had poor cell uh cell phone reception at his home ostensibly if you
00:33:27
think about those satellites that do all this tracking um you know when you're driving in your car and using GPS and
00:33:33
it'll say turn right 100 feet ahead you move 10t and suddenly it says turn 25 ft
00:33:39
that's because you're bouncing off different satellites and each of them is tracking you at a millisecond in time if
00:33:48
you lose signal even just for a second now suddenly it jumps and the really telling thing about
00:33:56
this was they said that they could track him running around the house at approximately 45 miles an hour
00:34:03
yeah so I thought wait a minute is he driving around the house no so how does it move 45 miles an hour a person you
00:34:11
can't but static drift says that you will pick up a signal here and then two seconds later pick it up 100 feet away
00:34:21
and that means I'm moving 45 miles an hour so this is not foolproof stuff mhm it's technology it has its flaws and in
00:34:30
this case we have a weak signal so we can't really say that he was chasing her around the house maybe he walked from
00:34:38
point to point as a person is allowed to in their own home what why so was he why tell the
00:34:46
Chipmunk story that's where it gets that's where I get I have nothing to say yeah okay
00:34:52
they have more and more stuff that they end up finding and every time they find something something that Barry has an
00:35:01
explanation not one that he had ever given them before but Barry has an evolving story well then they find the
00:35:08
spy pen so it seems that Suzanne was convinced that Barry was having an affair yeah and she had asked her friend
00:35:18
the same one she had been texting with for you know all those months ago she had asked her friend you know I don't I
00:35:24
don't think like I can buy it without him knowing can you buy it for me her friend buys her the spy pen but what the
00:35:30
spy pen ends up revealing there's no evidence that Barry was having an affair not on anything I mean to this day
00:35:36
there's no evidence that Barry was having an affair that's right there is evidence that Suzanne was having an
00:35:40
affair big evidence big big evidence so she is on that pen talking to her lover this man in who they end up finding out
00:35:50
is this person she had gone to school with I think back in high school and he still lives in Michigan and again they
00:35:56
used to live in Indiana by the time they locate this man suzan had been missing for 6 months yep and he
00:36:04
hadn't said a word not one word and he knew she was missing and this was a longterm Affair years yeah they had
00:36:13
started the affair right after she moved to Colorado in 2018 um it was mostly over the phone his
00:36:20
daughter saw a text message or something he kind of cut things off but then things picked back up and they were like
00:36:25
they were pretty sneaky they were contacting each other on LinkedIn that's how they did a lot of their chatting and
00:36:31
then they would go on WhatsApp and all these places where you can keep your communication really private and they
00:36:37
would meet and then they would meet so there were a number of times where they met up they had a physical relationship
00:36:44
as long as as well as an emotional one she was telling him that he was the love of her life yeah but he had a wife and
00:36:51
six kids so when she goes missing he finds out because this is the kicker so they were actually speaking at the time
00:37:00
that they think Barry came home and they and the police that what they theorize is that's what set him over the edge
00:37:06
yeah that he found out she was having this affair he chased her around and killed her with a dart and they they
00:37:15
they believe this Dart thing because when they present him with this needle syringe cap that they found and they say
00:37:24
well have you ever used this he said yes I used this on my Deer farm yes I I think I might have had this chemical
00:37:30
this bam which just three different chemicals in my workshed I don't think I have it anymore and they're well would
00:37:35
you have ever had a need to use it here and he says well actually yes I would shoot deer and tranquilize them so
00:37:44
I could go cut the horns off or antlers off yes and then and then let them go and and I would keep them for like extra
00:37:51
money or whatever you sell them for big money people want to look like Hunters without going through the trouble mhm
00:37:57
and they're like well why would uh why would it be in your home and he's like well you know maybe if I was in the
00:38:02
house and I like shot it through an open door but I'm still standing in the house
00:38:07
maybe that's why something would be in the house and they're like okay well when would this have happened and he
00:38:12
says I think the last time I did it was maybe end of April mhm I mean where she goes missing at the beginning of May
00:38:19
yeah but there is no chemical in his home that's right they cannot find any chemical in his home and it's not easy
00:38:26
to get you have to get it prescribed by a Veterinary veterinarian and uh I mean certainly he used it a lot back at his
00:38:34
deer farm and he used it he said recently in Colorado to take their horns so obviously he had some way of getting
00:38:43
it now the other thing that I find interesting on this spy pen and I'll I'll come back to her Affair in a minute
00:38:49
is she had put the pen in his truck at one point I guess assuming that she thought maybe he was going to meet
00:38:54
someone and it doesn't catch Barry meeting anyone but it catches him listening to a lot of Forensic Files
00:39:00
yeah a crime which is like a little bizarre and this is where I'm like okay I mean God
00:39:07
forbid anyone put a spy pen in my car that's all they're going to hear y but my question that nobody has addressed or
00:39:14
I don't even know if they've asked is like was Barry a crime junkie is I mean is this something that he's always been
00:39:19
listening to or is he learning yes or is you know shortly before something happens to his wife is all of a sudden
00:39:27
he taking notes yeah and I haven't seen anyone ask that question or touch on that
00:39:34
now they say to go back to the affair there is this picture of Suzanne which they keep calling the proof of life
00:39:41
picture this is her last proof of life it was a selfie that she took while she was laying out and sent to Jeff her
00:39:48
boyfriend and this was at that like two something time and they say 37 issue yeah they say this is the last time that
00:39:55
we know she was alive and I say is it no why just because it's the last picture we have exactly the one
00:40:04
thing I can't I can't I scoured the internet I can't find when the last time someone actually spoke to her or saw her
00:40:11
right and it's driving me nuts yep because also it was 50° yeah why he said she was laying out
00:40:20
on the lounge sunning sunb 50° that's awful cold you know that's cold yeah and hm well it's not your best time to get a
00:40:31
suntan but still some people like it sure Barry when they eventually approach him because they're still all sight set
00:40:39
on Barry again the more they learn about the affair the more they think this is just motive for him and plays into this
00:40:45
theory that they already have they seem to be com like not care at all that Jeff
00:40:51
didn't come forward when he knew they don't think it's weird that he destroyed the phone he had with Suzanne oh yeah
00:40:58
immediately after he said his phone dropped and the the front broke the glass so we had to get rid of it like
00:41:04
the next day yeah but but you can replace the glass for I think it's about $70 it was a work phone work was going
00:41:09
to pay for it so oh well gee but W so replaced it with a whole new phone and E all the data was wiped deleted all of
00:41:16
his accounts so that second LinkedIn he made he deletes everything yeah I mean when I've gotten new phones you transfer
00:41:23
all the data this time no nothing right and he he did it to protect Suzanne and her image and he's so up you know what a
00:41:32
good always thinking of other people Jeff yeah and um was Jeff investigated was his
00:41:40
home searched was his computer checked no that this is the thing so again they had their site set on Barry and almost
00:41:46
nothing was done Jeff provided them pictures of receipts that he from his credit card or
00:41:56
technically his white credit card yes that shows he was supposed to have been at different stores at around the time
00:42:03
that something is thought to have happened to Suzanne yeah a you can't convince me that we have the right
00:42:09
window of time here and B like they did nothing to independently verify that or that it was him right and it was his
00:42:17
wife's credit card and did they h a DNA sample from Jeff they did take a DNA sample from Jeff okay good so they they
00:42:25
they at least covered their bases there but they've nothing to compare that to at this point that's right so when they
00:42:32
approach Barry with proof that she had been having an affair he acts completely taken aback he says he has no idea that
00:42:42
this was happening he can't even imagine it I mean she had been accusing him of this and this is what's kind of wild
00:42:48
because when you look at her messages to her friends and stuff like it's all she
00:42:52
talks about is like is the fact that Barry could have been having an affair she never even told her friends that she
00:42:56
was yeah is is a little strange well I don't know like the most jealous people are usually the ones who are thinking
00:43:03
about having Affairs themselves right then they imagine everybody else is doing it too I don't know I've I've
00:43:09
heard that said I just don't know why she she seemed like she had no interest in him whatsoever and I don't know why
00:43:15
she cared so much that he might have been having an affair I me maybe it was just she felt like it was her way out if
00:43:19
she could prove that it was him I could see that makes for a better divorce yeah
00:43:23
fair so she he he says that he had no idea about this man he he asked police over and over tell me who it is like I
00:43:30
just want to know his name and they're we can't tell you he he he says he's completely blindsided okay so oh the
00:43:37
other thing he says again to go back to his um churchy Roots he says a couple of
00:43:43
times something to the effect that like oh this was like God maybe this is I couldn't understand why this happened to
00:43:49
such a sweet woman why this happened to us Suzanne was a cancer survivor like why would she go missing now and and
00:43:54
he's like oh well maybe maybe I finally understand once he learns about the affair that maybe this was God punishing
00:43:59
her like oh for God's sake I know I lit wrote my notes you [ __ ] yeah the one thing I have been obsessing over
00:44:07
though is again Barry says he doesn't know about the affair ahead of time in one of the court documents
00:44:15
there's a footnote and it says it's footnote 53 on page 46 Suzanne's list of grievances
00:44:23
cites a transaction such as this one involving onx and she mentions one involving mallerie her daughter to lier
00:44:33
who is Jeff lier her boyfriend shortly before she disappears ahuh I wonder what that was
00:44:42
no I don't know because nobody seems to be talking about it followed it nobody followed that track down nobody's even
00:44:49
asking questions about this right now except for me yeah I mean it's bank records are as easy to track down you
00:44:55
know with a subpoena everything all legal it's all electronic it's all the digital evidence is right there did
00:45:02
anybody look at that but they used I mean they used it as it as a footnote in their arrest affidavit later on the only
00:45:08
reason I found I would never have even looked at the footnotes except where I had done like a control find for Jeff's
00:45:14
name and I'm like I don't understand what this how could mallerie have transferred money and there's also
00:45:20
mention of mallerie maybe sharing an account with Barry how could mallerie have transferred money to Jeff before
00:45:27
Suzanne goes missing but she wouldn't do that would she the daughter how would she even know
00:45:35
about Jeff I don't know who else had access to the account to that wire transfer but why would you
00:45:41
transfer money too right what does that mean I don't know and and nobody tells us what it means and Jeff was what was
00:45:49
that word protected according to the police I don't quite understand yeah they said
00:45:53
that they were going to when they went to interview him again when they should when they should have been
00:45:57
interrogating him the way they would have anyone else they told him that they were going to protect him yeah yeah
00:46:02
interesting they're protecting him okay so that's about the six-month Mark over the next six months nothing really
00:46:10
happens but at the onee Mark that's when they finally move in so I have mentioned
00:46:17
an arrest affidavit they make a move for Barry they arrest him for Suzanne's murder and the theory is a lot like the
00:46:25
one they had since the very beginning that he found out about this affair maybe walked in on her as she was about
00:46:32
to or was talking to Jeff because that's what the messages perhaps indicate and that he lost it and tranquilized her and
00:46:41
got rid of the evidence and got rid of her but they don't know where she is his his car records don't show him
00:46:47
necessarily going anywhere though they do show that like the in the window they think this happened the doors are
00:46:52
opening and closing a bunch of different times and there's all this activity and
00:46:56
his phone on silent and they don't know the exact things but they know he did it
00:47:01
except for they don't as we soon see and so they end up dropping the charges without
00:47:08
prejudice because the case that was built against him was full of holes and those holes were filled with
00:47:16
[ __ ] and exculpatory evidence evidence that would have proven him innocent was withheld from the defense
00:47:24
in Yeah by law you must provide the defense with everything you have every clue so they can look at it too well
00:47:30
it's not even to the defense what what um what they argued for this time at least and they they argue everything
00:47:36
later is they're like it should have never been put in the arrest affidavit they're like if the arrest affidavit his
00:47:42
lawyers accus them of not only withholding information in the arrest affidavit that the judge didn't get to
00:47:46
see to make the decision but that they lied like straight up lied about things too yeah and you have this great uh
00:47:53
point in your book and we touched on it a little bit in our previous episode episode um advice that you had gotten
00:47:59
from your boss your Mentor Dr hirs when you worked in New York who basically said something to the effect of you're
00:48:08
only as good as your word like if the second you lie about one thing even if you think that like it's going to help
00:48:14
you or you're doing it for the right reasons you lie about the one thing and it calls into question everything
00:48:20
everything is Tainted and now there's something very important too it's not just lying about the thing there's a sin
00:48:26
of omission and a sin of commission commission something you purposely do and it's wrong but there's Omission the
00:48:35
failure to say things that might have helped the defense the failure or or even I I'm going to call this a s of
00:48:43
commission is taking a statement and twisting it very slightly for instance say things like somebody says I heard
00:48:52
something that could have been a gunshot wound a gunshot and then the police down
00:48:57
witness heard a gunshot no he didn't it was something that sounded like a gunshot so phrasing is everything
00:49:05
terminology is everything you're writing cold hard facts but there's always an editorial bent to them and in this
00:49:13
affidavit when we look at it very closely oh it's editor we see a lot of editorializing yeah a lot of slight
00:49:20
changing or changing of timelines yeah and this defense team wow I do not want to be up against them but I do want to
00:49:30
hire them should I ever be in the hot seat God forbid God forbid I would say the um the biggest point that they have
00:49:40
on their side and there's a number of them that I'll kind of get to one by one but to your point of something being
00:49:46
withheld from them I I would say there's two things one is that apparently some of the lead people in charge there's all
00:49:55
these different agents involved and there were a number of people who called the prosecutor's office when they said
00:50:02
they were going to arrest him and they were like we don't think you should do this like not with what you have you
00:50:08
should not move for we don't feel good about you moving forward with this and they were not only ignored but that
00:50:14
information was never given to the defense that's right and that seems pretty important if you have some of the
00:50:20
people who are actually doing the investigating being like I this is the I mean there's some I oh I've got to find
00:50:26
the phrase somewhere because it's like I mean some like pretty strong language about how they should deeply concerned
00:50:32
deeply concerned about how they should not be bringing this case yeah the other thing that I think is the
00:50:38
standout is there's some DNA evidence so they actually did do a number of swabs and testing and there is
00:50:50
foreign male DNA on a number of different items including her helmet including her bike and and we rule out
00:50:58
you know everyone who was like touching her bike to feeling it touching it riding it um Al those people get ruled
00:51:05
out there there is still unknown male DNA it's not berries again they take Jeffs it's not
00:51:09
Jeff's the really interesting part and they they the defense knew that there was this part of it what they didn't
00:51:16
know until a long time later was that there is they swabbed the glove compartment of Suzanne's car not Barry's
00:51:25
car the car that Suzanne would normally take to go ride her mountain bike and on
00:51:31
the glove box is unknown male DNA that when they run through codus matches to sexual assault cases
00:51:40
unsolved sexual assault cases three of them in Phoenix Tempe and Chicago yes what what but but does it match it says
00:51:53
partial match now what does that mean so it could be like a family member no oh oh well actually it it could be here's
00:52:01
the thing in codus the FBI wants 13 of the loai on the DNA the locations to match with the evidence in order to call
00:52:13
it a full match and that brings it to a one in a trillion chance that it's that it could be a coincidence so if you get
00:52:22
13 low side matching you're golden they're thinking about bumping it up to 20 but whatever so if you get a partial
00:52:29
match let's say four loai or six loai what does that give you it gives you that this chance of being of this
00:52:39
particular person is one in 4,000 something oh so yeah it's good but is it good enough no but the fact that this
00:52:50
partial match belongs to someone who's done three sex crimes in three different are is far apart is
00:52:59
mindboggling yeah I need to know I we don't have the DNA report we only have the report of the result but we don't
00:53:08
have the confidence level that we need we don't have the the uh the the number of loai that
00:53:14
matched um it's pretty crazy so you want to talk about Reasonable Doubt right like that's what it's going to come down
00:53:22
to in a court of law and to his defense attorney's point they knew that at the time of writing
00:53:29
the arrest affidavit and to not include that criminal it's it's a sin it's embarrassing it's
00:53:36
unethical but they didn't they didn't even make mention of the partial match of the partial match to a sex offense
00:53:45
the other thing that I like don't see anything on is what is there anything being done
00:53:51
separately to like figure out who that was because it say okay partial match maybe it's not actually connected at all
00:53:59
we've got you know one in 4,000 but the evidence from three separate sexual assault Cas listen I'm not I'm trying to
00:54:06
I'm trying to be on your side here and pretend like we like not for sure yeah no is very very unusual not to pursue
00:54:13
the hell out of that in my mind pursue it but also even if it wasn't connected it's the weirdest coincidence in the
00:54:20
world yeah but even if it's not connected who touched her car was it the the guy when you changed your oil right
00:54:28
detail the mechanic yeah like I don't know if anything's being done I think every like it feels like everyone's so
00:54:33
focused on this yeah that we're ignoring this like really important thing over here I'm I'm hoping and I'm I feel a
00:54:41
decent amount of confidence that yes somebody's pursuing these three cases oh so
00:54:51
sweet I don't have the same confidence but you you know what you worked for the man so that's right Hing that you're
00:54:56
right and I'm wrong okay are they connecting them though or is Chicago investigating theirs and the other
00:55:03
places are investigating theirs or somebody linking them together and saying hey guys let's all work this case
00:55:09
yeah I don't know what they were doing before I don't know and is anyone in Colorado now trying to get to the bottom
00:55:16
of who was in Suzanne's car even if it had nothing to do with her murder and it might have had something to do with
00:55:21
their murder sure might have we don't know so when Barry finds out some of this stuff he su I wrote in my notes
00:55:27
everybody everybody yeah I mean quite literally it's this long list I mean there there are also even some like Jane
00:55:34
and John do like 10 Jane and John Doe's listed in a lawsuit I didn't know you could sue someone and not name them yeah
00:55:40
if you don't if you're aware of their existence within the case you've seen them but you don't know their exact name
00:55:45
I guess you can just okay you know indict a Jane do or a John do okay other there's to be found so some of the other
00:55:51
stuff that they point out in this lawsuit because that's kind of all we were getting from the public View until
00:55:56
this lawsuit became public in those early days when they were doing searches for Suzanne remember Barry had given
00:56:03
them a scent item they had actually tracked Suzanne's scent from her bicycle to down the Ravine to the river that's
00:56:12
right the the cadav dog this you know investigative dog I don't know if it was a cab dog yeah dragged her scent and
00:56:20
it's it's interesting because early on before this they always cuz Barry did again it's a mountain line early then we
00:56:27
know it's not a mountain line and he whenever they asked him what do you think happened he's like I don't know
00:56:30
she maybe she's in the river they keep asking him that and and they think it's so weird that he keeps saying the river
00:56:37
well it's because in the rest affidavit like we didn't see that again which they
00:56:40
knew then that the dog tracked to the river that's right that's a huge piece of evidence that they left out yeah uh
00:56:48
they knew about the kot's hits we know that um oh here's where it is that the they also knew about the static drift so
00:56:55
again in the rest affidavit they say we can prove he's bouncing all over the house and he's got this wild story about
00:56:59
a chipmunk and then here it it not only disproves like oh he's can't be going 60
00:57:05
45 miles hour whatever it is they say that there was they were told at the time they were given that information
00:57:11
about static drift and they're like what we're showing you isn't reliable like he's we're not saying that this is what
00:57:16
happened right and this is this is the phenomenon of static drift and and it goes everywhere but they did not include
00:57:22
that in the arrest Aid uh also they did not include the thing about these phone being on airplane mode mhm that there
00:57:30
can be instances in which it appears to be on airplane mode but actually is not now I don't understand all that it's a
00:57:38
very very technical you know job analyzing cell phone data and at at like a high level I mean they they did have
00:57:45
terrible service I mean that was kind of a known thing at their Colorado Home in
00:57:50
these like this mountainous area and so they're like if if if it could not connect to service that is kind of the
00:57:55
same thing as being an airplane mode and can you actually tell the difference that's where I don't know in the arrest
00:58:00
affidavit they also claimed that Barry had a second phone that wasn't located like they they state that as fact and
00:58:07
one of the things they point out is there that's actually false because the search warrant that was returned from
00:58:11
Apple said that the second device identifier is not a second device or a phone but instead likely identifies that
00:58:18
Barry and Suzanne's iPhones were connected to the same iCloud account for a while that's right which I mean again
00:58:25
in my mind like like if they're on the same iCloud I feel like you can see a lot berries you see an awful lot so I
00:58:30
have more questions than answers um but they go on and on of just like all of these things that when you read it in
00:58:39
its totality mhm you're like oh man he's the most unlucky guy on the planet yeah
00:58:47
cuz everything I read in that affidavit I was like oh okay good they did oh they
00:58:51
did telematics on his car that's really good they did all the cell phone stuff they analyzed everything wow this is a
00:58:58
good investigation and there were times when I said wait a second now how could he be
00:59:03
running 45 miles an hour and then when you read this this oh they his his attorneys tear it to shred every single
00:59:12
thing Point by Point including the interrogations of Barry and the statements that they made he said wait a
00:59:18
minute he said X and now you're interpreting it out of the context of the conversation that type of thing and
00:59:26
suddenly your mind is blown it is even the the dark what they called the dark cap they even say you you literally lied
00:59:33
and called it a dark cap and it is a syringe cap yeah and it's found not mixed up in the sheets the way they
00:59:41
would have had you believe the sheets of this bed that this bedding had been stripped yes the bedding was found in
00:59:47
the dryer but the syringe cap was found 9 to 10 days later in an empty dryer in an empty dryer by an investigator and
00:59:57
his was the only DNA found on that cap when they tested it now Suzanne had a chemport you know she had beaten cancer
01:00:06
she had this port she was still on you know a maintenance kind of dose is it possible that she was given a needle and
01:00:15
syringe and her medication to inject herself I don't know anything about a chemport I don't know if that would make
01:00:21
it easier harder cheemo Port you know so you walk into the hospital put your medication in and boom you
01:00:28
don't to keep scking you with needles was she I don't the thing I don't know though for a fact is if she was still
01:00:33
taking medication I believe I believe I read that she was doing you know to prevent recurrence that they they taper
01:00:41
down may she gave it to herself yeah maybe but that's how I'm really reaching here I'm just looking for other reasons
01:00:49
okay cuz darkart cap is a funny word because they believe that he shot her with a dark gun that like the that's why
01:00:56
again they're they're framing everything within this like very specific box yes and then the second it doesn't and
01:01:02
that's what I keep saying I don't even know that it happened in that box and they but they have basically boxed
01:01:07
themselves out of everything else yeah so Barry makes this amazing case he's suing them he's asking for $15 million
01:01:16
because of what they put him through he was in jail he was in jail his daughters
01:01:20
are standing by his side and then Suzanne gets found three years later breaking news Colorado mom who
01:01:31
went missing on Mother's Day Suzanne Mor Suzanne morw Suzanne Mor's body has been
01:01:36
found Suzanne is found south of where they live in the town of Moffet and they don't find her because they're looking
01:01:45
for her and what's so interesting is when they dropped the charges against Barry they said we we're doing this
01:01:50
because we only get one shot we're really confident we know where she's going to be we just haven't found her
01:01:54
yet but they don't they were not looking for her when they found her that's right
01:01:58
they were looking for a woman named Edna kintana she had gone on a hike with her
01:02:03
boyfriend and her boyfriend said that she couldn't keep up she goes back to the car she's out the car when he gets
01:02:09
there and he never sees her again doesn't mention that to her family when they're looking for her but mentions it
01:02:16
later when he has her phone and her purse yeah so they are out there doing a search for her now while they were
01:02:23
searching for Edna they had actually found another missing person James Montoya according to his family James
01:02:30
was scheduled to go to the Marines the day after he had gone missing but it's now believed that he met some people he
01:02:36
didn't know while on this like night out one of them being Jesus anhel AR viso of
01:02:42
Denver and investigators say that he got a ride with this guy and maybe a group of people an argument breaks out and
01:02:50
then Jesus shoots and kills James I don't know how they have all this information I assume from Witnesses but
01:02:55
on the run so that case they're still looking for that guy but so they're looking for Edna they find James and
01:03:03
then they find another body which I'm sure for a moment they think is Edna but what was left I mean three years later
01:03:10
her Port was there and there had to have been that moment where they actually knew what they had found and after some
01:03:16
DNA testing it's confirmed that it is Suzanne so they found her in an area nobody was even
01:03:23
looking and then what they find from the autopsy results like just when we're all
01:03:27
like man Barry got railroaded they find bam in her bone marrow and they say that she died from
01:03:36
bam and so if you could help us break down what it is they found how they found it what it means like how
01:03:43
significant is this oh so very this is um this is this is mind-blowing now there's no flesh left you understand
01:03:52
she's out there three years in the desert there woring clothing there's bones there's some animal bones mixed in
01:04:00
and some of the bones from suzan are missing this is animal activity okay what's left to test there not a
01:04:08
scrap of Flesh so people say oh you can test the marrow nope marrow starts to Decay after 12 weeks is pretty much
01:04:17
useless she's been there three years but you can go to the ends the the of the femurs in the the top of the femur and
01:04:27
the very bottom of the femur there are more there large areas with tricular bone inside it that's where all the
01:04:33
blood vessels go through and in there you can find DNA even after years and years they test that DNA and sure enough
01:04:43
it is Suzanne they also identify her initially right from the autopsy before DNA was done by forensic odontology they
01:04:51
have her dental records they compare them to the dental work that's left within the Mand
01:04:56
and they identify her right then and there confirm with DNA and even better there's toxicology
01:05:05
you can get toxicology out of that tricular bone miraculous I mean that's unbelievable yeah AB obviously you want
01:05:13
blood that's the number one number two if you can guess a flashh some some some bone marrow but bone is good why is it
01:05:21
that uh one is better than the other does blood hold stuff you know you got the liquid it's right there and it's
01:05:27
full in it's full concentration in tracular bone you know the process again I'm not a DNA scientist so you know the
01:05:36
grinding down of it the extraction of it from bone tissue is just not going to yield the results that nice fresh blood
01:05:45
does but what do we find in that tricular bone what do we find a anesthetic a tranquilizer uses an antis
01:05:53
psychotic by the way and a deep deep narcotic majorly it said that metat medine is like seven times stronger than
01:06:02
fentanyl or some crazy thing like that I don't have the exact number but this is
01:06:08
what's used in combination to sedate big animals yeah you know bear attack a deer
01:06:13
you know any of these things yeah these aren't just like three random drugs right this is and this these were
01:06:17
specifically the three drugs that they had theorized very early on that Barry had used that Barry admitted to having
01:06:27
used to shoot deer with that's right at the end of April yeah the combination is
01:06:31
called bam and that is used by people to stop animals and Barry said oh yeah I use that to get deer to remove their
01:06:41
antlers um so we have toxicology and this is mind-blowing because now we have not a cause of death because all we
01:06:52
have is Bones MH and when they look at those bones very carefully you know they have a forensic anthropologist the
01:06:58
medical examiner there the corner they did a really good job they had the forensic odontologist they have the
01:07:04
Anthropologist and they go in and they look at the bones and they look for things like bullet holes saw marks uh
01:07:12
knife you know knife as you plunge it into someone's chest it Nicks a rib right they're looking for all these
01:07:19
things they don't find any evidence of perimortem injury in other words around the time of death there's something very
01:07:28
interesting in that toxicology and that is that they found metabolites of those three drugs when you have a drug in your
01:07:36
body your liver your kidneys metabolizes it breaks down the substance so that it's excreted from your body eventually
01:07:44
so in order to metabolize a drug you have to be alive for a little bit don't you so she was sedated with the BAM and
01:07:53
then lived for a bit which I find interesting because one of the things that people who believe and and Barry's
01:08:01
defense team people who believe he was he was railroaded he's innocent one thing they'll point to is that kadab
01:08:06
dogs were eventually brought in to the home to Suzanne's car to that Bobcat to Barry's car and there is they did not
01:08:14
hit on anything well I I think one time it was like the fourth time the third or
01:08:18
fourth time they brought in a kadab dog it hit on like something random and of course that's the one thing that made it
01:08:24
until they arrest affidavit course but then we learn about all the times that the dog didn't hit on anything
01:08:29
especially not in his truck like how how would he transported or nothing could have happened in the home it had to have
01:08:35
happened on the bike ride but then you think about what but what if she wasn't dead what if she was just sedated
01:08:39
sedated Cav dogs find the offut of of human decay of decomposition um the amoles whatever
01:08:48
they're called and so canaver dogs if a person's alive and sedated they're not going to be able to track that person a
01:08:54
tracking dog could mhm but of course Suzanne lived there so what's to track right so we have cab dogs no we we're
01:09:02
we're seeing then that she probably was not dead and decomposing in her home was
01:09:09
she sedated yes now again I have to say we don't have the toxicology report which is so frustrating it's killing me
01:09:17
because we need quantitation not just the the the um the fact that the drug is there but the quanti and the quantity of
01:09:27
metabolites how long was it between the time she was sedated it's a very very important piece of evidence and the
01:09:34
anthropology report good God do I need that I need to know um where the clothing was was found now
01:09:44
what's really interesting to me is you want to talk about the Magic Bullet they found right then and there a weathered
01:09:51
bullet they don't say if it's been spent or unspent they don't is it is it a bullet with a cartridge or is it an
01:09:57
actual bullet fired from a gun and it just happens to be right there with Suzanne and the FBI takes five fragments
01:10:09
of clothing and the bullet why those fragments of clothing they're going to examine microscopically to see if
01:10:17
there's any gunpowder residue any smear from the bullet any fibers that are burnt at the edges indicating that she
01:10:26
was shot because we don't have any evidence in the skeleton that she was shot that doesn't mean she
01:10:34
wasn't of course not because you know soft tissue yeah and so the FBI is holding in their hands that Treasure
01:10:41
Trove is it possible that that bullet just happen to be there as I said before anything's possible but is it prob ma is
01:10:50
the middle of freaking nowhere that's right I mean what and again but to be fair
01:10:55
we did just find potentially a sexual predator's DNA on her car and it's like if anything can happen it might happen
01:11:02
in this case that's right and maybe it was a shooting range area maybe maybe people went out there to shoot their
01:11:09
guns but in that case you would find a lot of bullets wouldn't you you'd find shell casings you wouldn't just find a
01:11:16
bullet next to a dead woman messing three years now I'm what I'm I wish they would I know they have more information
01:11:24
because the defense has kind of like thrown bits and pieces out within just like when they do interviews cuz they
01:11:32
say something about her having caffeine in her system as well I don't know caffeine and the chemotherapeutic Agents
01:11:37
so we know she was still taking yeah so they're saying so again they they're they're telling us the stuff that works
01:11:44
for them um so they're saying she had caffeine and they're like you know there was this coffee cup there that morning
01:11:49
that was half drank it had only Suzanne's DNA on it that proves that she was alive and well that morning when
01:11:55
that you know according to the the police's Theory she should already have been dead uh so yes caffeine I want to
01:12:02
know did she have any other drugs in her system again Barry has made allegations
01:12:06
that she was abusing her anti-depressants so no they would have mentioned those in the in the toxicology
01:12:11
you would think of course no you have to you when you well wait a second they didn't give us the full report maybe
01:12:17
there's a reason for that that's what that's what I don't know but then why didn't they why did they tell us the
01:12:21
three most important things the BAM because they that's what that's what led to her death right is that in their
01:12:28
summary yes what they called it is and this is an interesting thing you know normally I mean someone asked why is the
01:12:34
autopsy report so short well because all we have is bones we have no internal organs and then they say here that the
01:12:40
final diagnosis is homicide by unspecified means in other words unknown in the setting of bam let's
01:12:51
intoxication okay so what do they mean in the setting of it means this shouldn't be so if you're found dead in
01:12:59
the street and they can't figure out why you're dead there's no bullet wounds no
01:13:02
trauma no nothing but it's in the setting of being dumped in a dumpster head down that's not looking good you know so
01:13:14
in other words this is not correct this is not what should be a person shouldn't
01:13:19
be laying in the desert and no one should have bam in their system something that is prescribed by uh a
01:13:25
veterinarian for Animals yeah right the other the thing that again we get bits and pieces through the news because they
01:13:31
just say that she's got the weathered bullet and then some clothing that has kind of you know disintegrated with with
01:13:37
time as well but we don't they don't say what clothing the defense has said they'll just kind of off-handed say her
01:13:43
biking clothes I don't know if that's true no it's not exactly Yeti shorts I do have a description yeah from the
01:13:50
autopsy on external examination they're presented with three paper bags you know
01:13:56
biological evidence is always kept in a paper bag not plastic okay so we have Jane Doe day
01:14:03
one Jane do day one bag skull two bags then the third bag is County Day 2 and three so they
01:14:13
searched for three days before they got all the bones and evidence animals scatter the bones now it says which
01:14:21
Bones they have we have some missing we have the metaport The Cho Port purple medical device and now we have a pale
01:14:30
patterned balaclava is that that thing you wear around your neck or you could put it over your head okay we find that
01:14:38
we found a pink and light color leather work glove a light color p uh padded bra
01:14:45
ripped dark blue gray hooded sweatshirt with it says crested beew on it a torn green Nike tank top Yeti shorts and a
01:14:55
fabric fragment that's not her biking clothes no she wears the padded and nobody's
01:15:01
nobody who's doing serious mountain biking is is doing it in a sweatshirt yeah so maybe I don't I mean I don't
01:15:06
know what Yeti is maybe it does have padding but and where is her water you don't go biking the mountains without
01:15:14
water yeah exactly all right and then we have you know handed over to the FBI the
01:15:18
fabric fragments the weathered bullets um it's it's a it's a Puzzler this is it's interesting
01:15:28
and there hasn't been much from I always I always come back to his daughters just
01:15:34
out of sympathy more than anything else because they were so adamant and they stood by their dad
01:15:41
yeah and they lost their mom I mean they're how much more tragedy do you need here you know it's awful I just
01:15:49
don't know what they think now that like now that they have this they they haven't made any statements and they
01:15:53
might still be standing by their dad and and and Barry's lawyers are still saying
01:15:58
that they're that he is a man to stand by because they're they put out a statement afterwards that basically said
01:16:05
this should call for a reinvestigation it should absolutely and it should be done by somebody who wasn't involved
01:16:10
with the first one because it was so tainted and they should stop thinking about Barry and focus on whoever
01:16:17
actually did this and there is somebody who potentially has assaulted other women out there and there's all these
01:16:23
open-ended questions and right right now everything is is a little bit in limbo um as of this recording they haven't
01:16:29
decided her body was found in the 12th District she went missing from the 11th so they're wondering if the if the 12th
01:16:38
is going to be the one to actually prosecute it which potentially could be the best option since they didn't
01:16:42
weren't involved in that whole first part of everything it's it's a huge mystery it
01:16:49
really is and what's interesting too is did they see anything in Barry's car on his tele atics that showed or his DPS
01:16:57
that showed the car going down to this area where the body was found no so not in the days because again they went
01:17:03
through those telematics backwards and forwards for this window this very specific window they did not pull the
01:17:09
telematics on her Range Rover so on the other on the other car in the home and the thing that I had I was I was running
01:17:17
around wild with this case like running to our producer and like like with this paper in my hand this paper in my hand
01:17:23
and they had all the GPS coordinates from where his truck had been and so I went back farther and there's no date
01:17:33
but they also say here are the places it's been over time and it I mean it could have been years before but it
01:17:40
shows that his truck at some point was in crestone Colorado which is right by mofet I mean the coordinates are almost
01:17:50
overlapping with one another there's nothing down there Moffet is a town of between 100 and 200 people I mean
01:17:59
yeah there's there's no reason to go there so I'm really interested to learn why he went down
01:18:07
there at some point what was he doing in mafit because I know for a fact his truck was in creststone which is right
01:18:13
by Moffet right but when was that and why we don't know that and mostly because all the data we have or at least
01:18:20
the one that's the data that's been released has was just in that like very short time before she went missing the
01:18:26
the time that fits into their window yeah window I don't think he took his if it was him and I I'm not saying it's
01:18:32
Barry I don't think he would have taken his truck they know that he didn't in the time I also don't know when she was
01:18:37
last seen alive this is like I'm going to lose my mind over this one yeah this case has got me going back and forth
01:18:43
back and forth there are so many unanswered questions and you know there's nothing worse than not knowing
01:18:50
and it like is is he awful or is he I think of I think of Scott Peterson where it's just like is it possible that you
01:19:00
are just the most unlucky man alive right now and that you can be an awful husband and not a great guy and still
01:19:08
not be a murderer yeah and then and then but and all these things make you just look so guilty but what's Wild is if it
01:19:16
is if it is B the BAM and if it is what they thought it was but it didn't fit into that box like this is what really
01:19:22
sucks about a Department being dishonest about the way they get to the end it like the the end doesn't justify the
01:19:30
means because the means make like keep the end worth something yeah and right now everything
01:19:39
they've done even if they were right I don't know that it's tainted it's tainted
01:19:47
and what about Suzanne at the end of all of this yeah at the end of the day a a woman lost her life
01:19:55
and her daughter's lost their mother and a husband's wife is gone and we'll never
01:20:02
know what all it led to so there's you know there's still hope for Suzanne's case depending on a
01:20:10
reinvestigation to touch on the other cases I even mentioned you know Suzanne has gotten a ton of coverage those other
01:20:17
cases really haven't and so I think for James Montoya it's important to remind people that are still looking for the
01:20:25
man who killed him Jesus anhel Aro who they believe could be hiding out in the Alamosa area there was a woman who was
01:20:35
also arrested on September 5th of 2023 in connection with James's death and formerly charged with accessory to
01:20:42
first-degree murder after the fact so the family has been asking the Public's help in finding the man who who killed
01:20:49
their family member so if you have information you can call the metro Denver Crim Stoppers at 72
01:20:56
913782 7 there's a $2,000 reward available for information leading to an arrest and Edna the woman who whose
01:21:05
search led to these two other people being found she is still missing it's important to note that her boyfriend has
01:21:12
not been called a suspect what we know is that she was last seen on May 3rd of 2023 in the area of Swatch County so if
01:21:21
you know anything about her disappearance please call the C bi tip line at 719 416
01:21:30
5815 thank you once again for joining me for those that haven't listened to our previous episode you can find that on
01:21:36
the SiriusXM app and if you didn't listen to our previous episode again we've kind of alluded to Barbara's book
01:21:41
but Barbara you wrote a book called what the dead know I finished it in two days
01:21:46
it was unbelievable especially for a crime junkie you not only talk about your life but the cases that you have
01:21:53
seen the UN unbelievable I mean you would think they come from a TV show cases that you've seen in your career
01:22:01
yep where can they find that uh wherever you buy your books and uh Amazon and and
01:22:07
local bookstores and Barnes & Nobles and every place else and where can they follow you because you're doing some
01:22:13
amazing things I you you you've alluded to in our last episode you got some TV stuff happening you have your book
01:22:18
you're kind of all over the place they're going to want to be best friends with you like I am now a thanks I um
01:22:23
yeah you can find me at Barbara butcher official that's my website you can find all kinds of information there and you
01:22:30
can write to me um or on Instagram at butcher. Barbara and butcher is spelled like where you buy the meat just like
01:22:39
the butcher all right don't forget to follow this show add it to your library and don't forget to follow crime junkie
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