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Hi, crime junkies. We are back with the details of a case that I ever so briefly
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touched on last episode. The victim in today's case always gets lumped in with a group of missing and murdered people
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from this like small Pacific Northwest area. And authorities and community locals believe that they were all killed
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by the same man. But this case has always been the outlier because of how this young woman was found. dismembered
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in garbage bags floating in the Snake River. The thing is, I think she very well could be a victim of a serial
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killer, just not the one that we talked about last week. I have been tracking a new man who somehow kept turning up in
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the same areas as dismembered women in the8s, and I want to bring you guys in on the investigation
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because I need your help. But let me start with the University of Idaho student whose story came well before the
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Idaho Ford that we talked about two weeks ago. This is the story of Kristen David.
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In late June and into the first couple of days of July 1981, police in the Lewis Clark Valley, right
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where Washington and Idaho meet, are getting a flood of calls in response to local news of a missing co-ed from the
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University of Idaho. 22-year-old Kristen David was on summer break and while she was going to be
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staying with her sister in Lewon, Idaho, she wanted her bike and like a couple of
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other things that she'd left behind at her campus apartment. So on June 25th, she had a friend drive her the 30 miles
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or so back to Moscow, Idaho, so she could get her things and then she was going to actually bike back the next
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morning on the 26th. I mean, the ride was mostly downhill. It would take her maybe 3 hours. Easily doable for
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Kristen. Except she never made it back to Lewon. Both her and her bike just vanished
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somewhere along the long stretch of Highway 95. Now, it took a few days for police to consider foul play in
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Kristen's case. But as news of her disappearance made its way to locals, plenty of people were calling in
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sightings of her from the 26th. Some were innocuous, just saying that she was biking alone, but those kind of help
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pinpoint how far she might have made it before she disappeared. But other sightings were more ominous. And over
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and over again, police were hearing about a man and a mysterious brown van that may have been with Kristen on the
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side of the highway. Now, these sightings differ a little bit based on who comes forward. Like, for instance,
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one man says that he saw the brown van parked on the side of the road and a woman who looked like Kristen was
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loading her bike into the back of it with help from this man. They said she didn't look distressed, so he didn't
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stop or do anything or whatever. Then, another witness named James claims to have seen a similar looking van pulled
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over to the side of the highway close to this town called Jennese, which is just
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north of Lewon. And in this sighting, the driver was standing outside on the driver's side and a young blonde woman
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matching Kristen's description was standing towards the rear of the van and the bicycle was like laying in the
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weeds. Based on the scene, he assumed that the girl had some kind of accident and that this man was helping her.
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Although, James says that he saw a shadow and two feet on the opposite side of the van, like there was someone else
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on the other side that he just couldn't see. and he said he didn't stop because again he thought this guy was already
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stopping and helping and you know nobody would need him. So being 1981, as police
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start getting a flood of these vague descriptions, they begin bringing people in to put them under hypnosis, hoping to
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get more details about this mystery van or ideally the license plate. All of the
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witnesses agree that the Brown van was sporting an Oregon license plate. And a few under hypnosis can remember some of
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the letters and numbers. Like James says that the last two digits were 37. And that's backed up by another witness who
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says the plate had the numbers 737. >> Were any of them able to describe the driver?
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>> Yes, they were. and not any better under hypnosis, but like in their initial statements, they all give this
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similarish description. One witness who was driving past says that this guy had like this full kind of shaggy beard.
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Another describes this guy as quote unquote grubby, whatever that means to that person. And James comes in with the
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most detailed description, describing this man as approximately 30 years old. He's a white guy, 510 to 6 feet tall. He
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said he had a husky build, maybe if you had to guess 175 to 180, with a trimmed beard, brown hair, and wearing a brown
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and white checkered shirt and army type khaki pants. Although, as detailed as that was, I feel like it's worth noting
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that James' story changes some over time. Like, for instance, he gives two statements shortly after Kristen went
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missing. In the first he mentions seeing the feet under the van like someone else
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was on the other side. But then in the second one he doesn't mention any other person. And then the story he tells
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years later when he participated in an episode of the series Cold Valley, it changes like more drastically. I think
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at that point in 2018, he says that he was driving past and he spotted this brown van, but now Kristen wasn't
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standing up. She was laying down in the grass next to her bike as though she had
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been hit. And then he says he sees the the driver, the one man, getting out of the van, walking back towards where
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Kristen was laying. And this dude was smiling. >> And there's no mention of any of these
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details before. >> No. And our team even tried reaching out to James, but we couldn't get through.
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So, I kind of wonder if what he saw in 81 morphed into something more sinister in his mind, especially after July 4th,
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when people finally realized what happened to Kristen after she went missing. [Music]
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A little over a week after witnesses spotted Kristen on the side of the road with that bearded man and brown van,
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this guy who is spending his Fourth of July fishing on the Snake River spots a black garbage bag in the water near the
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riverbank. And it's unusual enough that curiosity gets the best of him and he looks inside. And that's when he sees
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parts of Kristen David. And then downstream there is another one of these same black trash bags. So he calls
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police who over the course of that evening and the next morning collect five bags in total containing parts of
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Kristen's new dismembered body. Though according to an article in the South Idaho Press, it would take 5 days for
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them to confirm her identity officially. Now, there was very little evidence to work with when they removed each part
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one by one from the bags. I mean, they couldn't tell exactly when she had been killed or how long she'd been in the
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water. But, Detective Jackie Nichols with the Asotin County Sheriff's Office told us that investigators believe she
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had likely died either the day she went missing or very shortly after. Kristen's
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body showed signs of skin slippage, which is like a natural part of decomposition, but it is slowed down
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when a body is in the water. So, according to my research, it can take as little as 24 hours for this to happen
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after a body is placed in water, although there are like a ton of different factors that can impact this.
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So, the working theory is that she was killed and then dumped relatively quickly. And then what probably happened
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is the bags sank to the bottom of the river before surfacing and then being discovered on the fourth. And all of
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that to say, investigators then were left with little hope of collecting any biological evidence. And none of her
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personal effects like jewelry or anything else was found on her body either. And it's interesting, I do see a
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note in the files that we have seen that says she had a wrist watch that she was
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known to wear and that that watch was located, but I'm not sure where it was found. Like, was it with her remains or
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did they go back to her apartment or something and find it there? I don't know. But there was one clue left behind
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by whoever wrapped Kristen and put her in those bags. Each body part was wrapped in newspapers. And they realized
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that the newspapers were from four different issues of the Lewon Morning Tribune. They were dated April 7th,
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April 17th, April 19th, and April 24th, which to me is interesting cuz it's not like someone just found one random
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paper. Like >> it really is more of a series of papers as though the killer used the ones that
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had been delivered to their home and >> whatever was around, >> right? And sure, there are thousands of
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other scenarios where these could have been picked up or found or whatever, but I mean, think about it. This person had
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to have somewhere to go to dismember Kristen in the first place. >> They're going to go somewhere that they
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know, somewhere that's private, that they are familiar with and feel comfortable in.
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>> Well, and so familiar that they may get the Daily Paper there. That's my thinking because nothing about this
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feels sloppy or rushed. This person took their time to do exactly what it is they
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wanted to do to her. I mean, her dismemberment is described as almost surgical. Like, whoever did this either
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has medical knowledge >> or has done this before. >> Exactly. And there were also signs of
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mutilation on her body and some sort of muscle or tissue in her mouth. Do we know anything about her cause of death?
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>> So, transparently, yes. So, we obtained some of Kristine's files through a foyer
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request, and there is documentation of her cause of death and other injuries she sustained, but Detective Nichols has
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asked that we don't publicize that information. While she isn't the lead investigator on Kristen's case, she has
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done a lot of work on it, and she thinks that it would be best not to get into that in detail. And then we couldn't get
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in contact with the actual lead investigator at the FBI and their office wasn't willing to answer any of our
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questions. So, just out of respect for Detective Nichols requests, we're not going to get into that. But to answer
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your question, yes, we know and investigators do know. And here's something I can tell you that I don't
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think has been reported before and something that I think could be a hallmark of her killer's MMO.
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I told you they discovered five different bags in the Snake River. They found her head, her torso, both arms.
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Some of them were double bagged. And then her left leg and hips and buttocks were found all connected but not in a
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bag. Now, the upper part of her right thigh was also recovered, but I can't tell from the reports if that was in a
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bag or not. But what I'm getting at is when all is said and done, when the whole shore had been searched and
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investigators were ready to pack everything up, the rest of her right leg, so we're talking everything from
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the knee down, was never found, never recovered. What could searchers have just missed it? Possibly. I mean,
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there's one report I saw in the case file that briefly mentions seeing a similar looking black trash bag floating
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like way out in the middle of the river. And since the waters were choppy, no one
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could get to it before it disappeared. So >> maybe that's where her missing leg ended
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up. But also, I don't see any reports of that turning up later or being found by
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anyone else. And so I can't help but wonder, could the killer have kept it? >> And you'll see why I asked that question
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a little bit later. So it's not just me being like wild crime junkie theories. It really is the question of could this
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be part of his MMO? And that remains to be seen. So despite a thorough search of
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the shoreline, nothing else is recovered. And there's still the question of where her body went into the
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river. And detectives here are in luck because they're soon contacted by a woman who says that she and a couple of
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others found two separate stains of what looked like blood on the railing of a bridge a few miles upstream from where
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Kristen's body was found. So investigators go check it out, and the spots are still there. And it may be
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because of this that investigators start theorizing that Kristine's body was dumped off this bridge into the water
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below. And then two witnesses even come forward later stating that they saw what
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looked like a dark van parked on that bridge, possibly on the same day that Kristen went missing. Now, these
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witnesses didn't actually see anything suspicious. They just said that the driver of the van sort of matched the
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description that they've been working with. And the guy didn't look happy that someone had seen them. But it's not like
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this witness actually saw this person throwing bags over the railing. And I could talk to you about who saw the
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spots and when they saw them and go around in circles, but I'm not going to build you up only to bring you down
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because samples of that may be blood are collected later tested and it's determined to not even be blood at all.
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It doesn't mean that someone didn't still use that bridge to put the bags in the water. Doesn't mean it didn't happen
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on a tight timeline, >> right? But this doesn't offer any kind of proof. Like they're right where they
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were before. >> Did they ever find her bike or pieces of her bike or anything? >> No, not her bike, not her clothes, not
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even some of the personal items that detectives learned she would have most likely have had on her, like her
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checkbook and her coin purse. >> When you say coin purse, and I'm thinking of a serial killer, it feels
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like one of those things that he would keep as like a a trophy or is it like a trophy or souvenir difference, right?
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>> Right. It depends on what he would have done with it if I remember correctly.
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Like trophies, I believe, are the kinds of things that killers would give to someone else so they can see them
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wearing it or holding it. Like that's what they get off on. Souvenirs they kind of just keep tucked away.
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>> Okay. But still, I could see him keeping something little like a coin purse or a
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checkbook. >> But something big like her bike, I feel like that would be hard to like hide
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away. It would it would be like noticeable. I know in my mind like throwing it in the river would have been
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easy but I mean unless they totally just missed it like they searched that river.
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It's not there. Which makes me come back to the idea that it could be this guy's
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home or something like that wherever he did the dismemberment. Like did he have a place that he could also store the
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bike to keep that out of sight? Do you think there's a chance that he could have done everything in like the back of
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his van? like this van keeps like popping up in these like sightings and stuff. So, it's a possibility. And
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actually, Detective Nichols said something interesting that might play into this. So, she said that whoever
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dismembered Kristen had some struggles with her legs. Like one of her upper thighs, either the right or the left,
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I'm not sure which one, had some cuts that indicate that her killer had trouble dismembering her, like I said.
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So to kind of spell it out for you, Kristen essentially was taken apart at the joints almost like a hunter would
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break down an animal. So maybe he's in an area where when you have a limb as big as a leg, like you're you have
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issues, right? That's totally possible. >> Like if you're in a van, >> right? Or the other alternative, one of
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the reasons he might have had trouble is if you think about a hunter who's used to animals on humans, the hip joint is
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higher than you might think, >> which would indicate a hunter versus someone with like medical knowledge,
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knowledge of the human anatomy. Like that's not a mistake that they would make. They would know that it sits
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higher, >> right? So again, is he like cramped for space or did he not know where to go in
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at initially? And again, this is just a theory, and I feel like hunters in rural
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Idaho are a dime a dozen. So, who knows if it even means anything. But regardless of the killer's background,
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the search for that van is all the more important. So, based on what they know from witness sightings, detectives come
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up with a list of plates and vehicles that they want to check. I mean, they literally went to the DMV in Oregon,
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pulled registrations for every Oregon plate, ending with a variety of combinations of the reported number
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73737, whatever, and then from there, they whittleled it down to just Brown Vans. And then they individually
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followed up on every single one. It was timeconuming and difficult and would have been worth it had anything come of
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it. But unfortunately, check after check, they don't get anything. They don't get any suspects that seem to
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stick. And even though they do a bunch of searches of nearby houses and sheds and barns, basically anywhere that could
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hide a very bloody crime scene, that turns up nothing either. They aren't out of things to do yet,
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though. A composite sketch is created within the first few days of the investigation based on those witness
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reports. And they're fine, but not any more helpful than the vague descriptions we already have of a white guy with
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brown hair. But like, forget what this guy looks like. Who is this guy as a person?
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>> Like a profile. I love a good profile. >> This one delivers. I'm assuming it's
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made by the FBI, though the document doesn't actually say, but we know that they've taken over the case now. And
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back in the early 80s, local law enforcement agencies were not profiling like that was the feds. So they put
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together this 20 point psychological profile of this guy. >> Okay. White male, probable age 21 to 28
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years, living alone or with a girlfriend or mother. Mother would dominate family
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if family is together. Considered intelligent but is an underachiever, i.e. Others think he could do much
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better than what he does. High school education or better. Probably owns a late model vehicle of which he is proud
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of. Cruises the area in his vehicle, which side note, we saw that before. >> Yeah,
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>> it was in the Eve Wilkawitz case that we did like I feel like it's a year or so
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ago at this point for fan club. And I always wonder where that comes from. Like what about a crime tells you that
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someone's into late model cars or has one? >> Well, yeah. And if I'm remembering
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correctly in Eve, we thought that like maybe that had been connected to like a witness sighting or something.
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>> Yeah, but that was a guess. But here, I don't see any witness statements about a
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car like that. I mean, granted, I might not have everything, but I don't know. I'm kind of just wondering if they think
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certain types of people are drawn to those. And does that say anything about the larger population who owns these?
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like baou call me I have follow-up questions but let's keep going >> probably has an arrest record or
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discipline record going back to teen years the record would be for crimes against persons i.e assaults, bites,
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violent type acts, has a hard time keeping a job as he considers himself better and more knowledgeable than
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others. Therefore, will not follow directions and orders of others. Considers himself superior in
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intelligence to law enforcement officers. Therefore, he will follow the investigation and might leave clues as
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the investigation progresses to aid police. Might return to the crime scene at later dates to fantasize and relive
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the situation. Crime scene occurred in one area and an attempt to hide body and evidence made
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by taking it to another area. All in the general area of where subject lives. Souvenirs will be kept for fantasizing
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which might include body parts, clothing, and other personal items victims had at the time. So when you
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were talking about coin purse, yes, possibly. >> When you were talking about the lower
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part of her leg, >> also possibly. This is what I was saying. is obsessed with photographs
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might have been taken of the body to help relive event at later date. Victim will not be known to subject but was
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available when situation presented itself. Death probably came quickly to victim. No torture. There might not have
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been any sexual intercourse before or after death. >> Oh, question. Was the mutilation to
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Kristen done pre or postmortem? likely post. According to detective >> number 14, the incident is
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psychosexually satisfying to the subject. Although an impersonal event, the victim means nothing to him and he
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has no remorse over what he did. Subject will have lived in the area for a period
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of time and will be known to various people in his community. Bite marks or stab wounds commonly made after death.
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weapon used to cause death will normally be his own as opposed to a weapon of opportunity. Will keep the weapon for a
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period of time. As this fantasy wears off, will kill again and more frequently as time passes.
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We'll have fantasized about what he would do to a girl if the situation presented itself, i.e. premeditated. And
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when the situation does occur, he conducts himself as he has fantasized. and finally might have left the area
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after the killing, moving to another town and establishing himself, job, etc. before he will kill again. So, who fits
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this psychological profile? >> Yeah, there is no one perfect fit, but there are a ton of men who have come
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across investigators radar over the years, and there are a few that I want to talk about because I swear I've said
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this a thousand times, it should be a life roll, but I haven't made it short and sweet. But this is a reoccurring
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theme where I'll come into a cold case, one where there are no real suspects. It's ice cold and on the surface it
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looks like there would be no suspects because like no one's talked about any >> but then you get to see the files and
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you dig in and it is the opposite. I am like how can there be this many people around all the time that look so guilty?
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Like they can't all be guilty. So like what the heck? It has made me start sideeying every person around me. Like
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if I died, like what secrets do you have that would come pouring out? And like I
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mean I think that's also just life rule number one, right? You never really know
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anyone ever. >> Well then it's life rule 1.1. Like you never really know anyone ever until
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their life intersects with a criminal investigation and then there is no hiding >> unless you have a bad detective.
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>> Life rule 1.1 point no I'm just kidding. All that to say, even though the Kristen
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David case has only publicly been linked to the Louiswis Clark Valley murders and
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disappearances, there were plenty of other highly suspicious people that came on law enforcement's radar.
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Okay, the first couple of guys that I want to talk about are ones that made a splash for investigators early on, but
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then fizzled out pretty quickly. So, first was George Williamson, aka Buzz. Now, Buzz came on police's radar because
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he actually made a report about another guy that he thought could have killed Kristen. Now, that other guy gets
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cleared, but Buzz remained on police's radar. He lived on the same street as where Kristen was going to stay for part
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of the summer. Plus, he matched both the composite sketches and some points in the psychological profile and was known
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to be bitter and hateful towards women due to a divorce and custody battle. According to Detective Nichols, Buzz
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also claimed to have done some truly horrific stuff like disembowing people in Vietnam when he was deployed there.
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He even had a van, although it was purple and yellow and mistaking it for being brown when so many people claimed
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to have seen a brown van seems unlikely. >> Yeah, purple and yellow quite different,
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>> right? But all of that, like even this though it's suspicious, Detective Nichols told us that the FBI has ruled
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him out. Ultimately, they determined that a lot of the claims he made about disembowing people were actually false.
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Buzz had been in the military, but he had never been deployed to Vietnam. And all those claims of like what he did
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were just like one of numerous lies that he told. Detective Nichols said that while yes, his claims are disturbing,
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he's also very mentally ill and makes claims all the time that can't be substantiated. So, while yes, he should
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probably stay on police's radar, they don't think he killed Kristen. Plus, that van he owned, he even sold that by
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the time Kristen went missing. So, next up, there was Donald White. In an interview with police a few years after
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Kristen's body was discovered, Donald talks about his friend, this guy named Larry Kof, who he claims he used to grow
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marijuana with. Now, these two guys had a huge falling out after which Dawn's children allegedly started remembering
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bouts of sexual abuse from Larry and a teenager named Travis. They also claimed to have seen a woman being trapped in
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the basement of this other family that Larry allegedly knew and spent time with. But before we even go spiraling
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down this rabbit hole, neither Donald nor Larry were ever really considered legit suspects to begin with. And
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Detective Nichols told us that the reason was very similar to Buzz. Donald talked a big game, but when it came time
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to actually verify details from his story, he couldn't. Based on what I have, there isn't a ton of detail around
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who owned what type of vehicle and who did or didn't get the Lewon paper. And I think these claims are incredibly
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concerning, but if those claims could not be verified, like, you know, no, they are there. Did they just say Don
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couldn't verify the claims, or did he actually check with Larry's kids and family to try to see if all this was
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real? Well, Detective Nichols told us that Dawn's ramblings were immensely drugfueled, she said. And so, after just
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like a brief look, they were like, "Yeah, no, like this ain't our guy." And they just kind of moved on. So, that's
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Don and Larry. I've spent most of my time digging into someone else. Someone who was a blip on the radar, but maybe
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you'll see why. Like, I just am so invested in a second. Let me set the scene. So, I told you early on that
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investigators searched for a place that might be the crime scene or where the dismemberment happened, right? Cabins,
00:26:29
abandoned buildings. They were also searching hotels and motel in the area. Well, shortly after Kristen was found,
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investigators hear from a housekeeper who worked at the Sack Joa Lodge in Lon, she tells them that on or around June
00:26:43
30th of 1981, she went in to clean one of the rooms and inside she found a bloody bath towel and then a bloody hand
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towel. And I'm not talking about like, ooh, I nicked myself shaving like little dabby dabs. She claims that the larger
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towel was completely soaked, save for like one corner. Now, she couldn't remember exactly which room she found
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the towel in. And when investigators asked for the towel itself, she's like, "Oh, I passed it on so it could be
00:27:18
washed." And then like presumably reused. >> Yeah. I was just like if it's being like
00:27:25
that. >> No, >> this is like a whole side story, but I spent so much time on this. I want I
00:27:33
want all of our listeners, if you work in like the hotel service industry, maintenance, housekeeping, I want to
00:27:38
know your most horrific story because I cannot fathom. >> This feels like it's got to be up there,
00:27:42
but she's so nonchalant about it >> that she's just like, "Another blood soaked towel. Can't wait for the next
00:27:49
I'm going to start bringing my own towels and sheets and everything to hotel rooms. I'm like terrified now that
00:27:53
that towel went back into circulation. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, back on track. Sorry. >> So, okay. So, she finds this bloody
00:28:00
towel again. She didn't keep it. She sent it off >> and no one is jotting down the room
00:28:06
number. She can't even remember what day it is. >> No, but this this is what I'm saying.
00:28:09
Like, I think they see some wild stuff like again fully blood soaked towel like me, another day, another dollar. like
00:28:14
and then you know police come knocking or she hears about this dismembered body and I was like huh I wonder maybe and I
00:28:23
don't even know if it was them like knocking or or like her seeing on the news or something that like started this
00:28:28
whole thing. It might have been the fact that more bloodied stuff was found at the same motel.
00:28:34
>> Okay, what is going on there? >> Girl, I like couldn't tell you. And by the way, this isn't some like remote
00:28:40
little highway. I I affectionately call them murder motel, >> which is exactly what I was expecting.
00:28:45
>> This is like a This is in downtown Lewon, which is like right by the river. I'm not saying this is like New York
00:28:51
City, but it's it's like a big hotel. >> People see it all the time. Yeah. Anyways, so also at this hotel, this
00:28:57
woman finds blood on a padded suitcase stand when she was cleaning over a week later on July 10th. Luckily, she
00:29:06
remembers that it was in room 273. And I don't know if this like joged memories or what. I still don't even
00:29:14
know if these are in the same room or different rooms or >> would anyone have seen the suitcase
00:29:18
stand between June 30th and July 10th? Like could it be from the same incident? >> I don't know because I don't know if
00:29:25
anyone stayed in that room like in between those or even if they did, did they actually like pull that out or did
00:29:31
like leave it out for for housekeeping to see? But police must be at least considering that this is all the same
00:29:38
thing and it might be related to Kristen because one, they search the room and it
00:29:43
yields hair samples that look like they could be from Kristen. And the FBI do tests on those samples. According to
00:29:50
Detective Nichols, one hair sample was consistent with Kristen's hair type and the others were not. But I mean, we know
00:29:58
consistent could mean a lot of things. In the case file, the hair is described as having the quote same microscopic
00:30:06
individual characteristics. End quote. Like that's not enough. That's not a DNA comparison, right? But that's where the
00:30:12
hair testing stood as of 1981. And the number two, the other thing is they start looking into the room and they
00:30:19
specifically look at who stayed in that room right before the bloody towel was found on or around June 30th. And they
00:30:26
found that on June 29th, the room had been rented to a Pete Madson. And the registration clerk remembered him
00:30:33
somehow. She described him as having collar length blondish hair, maybe like 5'9 to 5'11, was tallish, and weighing
00:30:40
between 160 and 180 lb. And she also believes she remembers the car he drove as a yellow oldsmobile.
00:30:48
And lucky for police, she even still had his like check-in paperwork, which included an address that he gave in
00:30:54
EMTT, Idaho. almost 5 hours south of Lewon and information on the car that he said he had with him, like a license
00:31:00
plate number. And he even wrote down it was an Oldsmobile, just like the one the
00:31:03
clerk thought she saw. Except when they try and look this guy up, that's not real. Police match the license plate
00:31:11
number on the registration not to a Peep Madson, but to a guy named Glenn who lived in Boise. And by the way, Glenn
00:31:19
doesn't even drive an Oldsmobile. He drives a Ford. But according to what he told police, like he wasn't even in the
00:31:26
state when Kristen's murder took place. He said that he was in California going to a family's wedding and he had left
00:31:32
his car behind. So either someone stole it, which I don't really think so because we know it's not a Ford that was
00:31:39
there or at least wasn't seen, or someone stole the just the plate on it, or this person just made it up.
00:31:46
>> Or maybe it's someone who Glenn knows who just so happened to know his license
00:31:51
plate number. Yeah, I mean the possibilities are endless, but with the license plate being a bust, they just
00:31:58
decide to focus on the name. And there are a few Pete Madsens that the FBI looks into. There's Peter J. Peter M.
00:32:06
Peter L. Now, it's not clear if like any of these are the Pete Madson, but based
00:32:11
on like identification from driver's license and height and who has connections to where it seems like the
00:32:18
FBI tentatively rules out, and that's their quote, tentatively rules out all of the Pete Madson's. And Jackie
00:32:24
couldn't give us any more information on Pete himself. But of all of them, I think they spent the most time, and most
00:32:30
is like generous cuz there's barely any, but spent the most time on Pete M. Now,
00:32:35
when they looked at the address that was on this registration, right? We know the
00:32:39
plate number is bogus cuz this address that was listed for EMTT Idaho, it doesn't belong to a Pete Madson. It's
00:32:46
registered to someone else. However, this someone else does actually know Pete Madson, who by the way drove a late
00:32:55
model car, a 1970 Oldsmobile. And I'm just going to read from the FBI report cuz it's super interesting to me. So
00:33:02
this person quote advised that Pete Madson resided with him for approximately 3 weeks during June 1981.
00:33:10
On June 26th, 1981, Madson was either in route to Lewon, Idaho, or was staying with them at their home. I'm redacting
00:33:18
the name. Believed that Madson left his residence to go to Moscow, Idaho around 62681 or 62781,
00:33:27
but could not recall the exact date. He stated that Madson presently resides at,
00:33:33
he gives his address, Moscow, Idaho. Madson is a student at the University of Idaho, working on his master's degree.
00:33:41
And then it goes on from there. So, long story short, it seems like this Pete Madson is a real person, but like if he
00:33:51
is connected at all to me is still a mystery. Though again, the FBI says they have tentatively ruled out Pete Madson.
00:34:00
So maybe that's true, but Pete Matson, whoever you are, I would love to know your story.
00:34:07
>> Yeah, I don't think there's a world where a bloody suitcase stand thing and bloody towels turns out to be like an
00:34:14
uninteresting nothing burger a thing in this case. The one thing I'll say is so Detective Nichols told us that she
00:34:21
doesn't necessarily think what was found on the suitcase stand was blood because
00:34:27
there is absolutely nothing on the result of the samples that were taken. And she even has some doubts about the
00:34:32
housekeeper story to begin with because I guess each time she talked to the police, her story just got a little more
00:34:38
like conveniently inepth. Like first she doesn't report the bloody towel, then all of a sudden there's a bloody towel
00:34:44
and then a bloody suitcase stand. And then even later, she said that she saw a man holding a bike on Highway 95. Like,
00:34:50
it just seems like there was more to the story every single time. And it's so specific to Kristen that Detective
00:34:56
Nichols wonders if maybe she embellished her story. >> Still, I can't shake it. Like, it's just
00:35:02
like I get these like little Spidey sense things sometimes. I'm obsessed with this whole Pete thing. And not
00:35:07
because this Pete Madson guy had anything to do with it. Like, everything on that registration seemed to kind of
00:35:13
be bogus. Why? Like was it really someone named Pete Matson or did they just pick like
00:35:18
>> I mean they would have had to know that like >> that guy had a friend named Pete Matson,
00:35:22
>> right? Like there's like so many things that like have to fit perfectly together
00:35:26
for it to be explained. It seems so fantastical. >> But I'll tell you this and this has
00:35:31
nothing to do with anything. But this is like one of those crime junky tangents.
00:35:34
>> So when I got obsessed with this Pete Matson, I'm like who is Pete Madson? Where is he at now?
00:35:38
>> Google. >> Have you Do you have your phone with you? You need >> told me to keep it with me today.
00:35:44
You need to just Google Pete Madson. >> Nothing else. >> Just Google Pete Madson or Peter Madson.
00:35:52
>> Ashley, I watched this documentary. >> What are the odds? >> So, I can't even like summarize it, but
00:35:59
Peter Madson has had like a a submarine and correct me if I'm wrong, like this journalist comes on and is like
00:36:06
interviewing him about the submarine and goes on the submarine for like a ride and then doesn't come back. cuz Peter
00:36:13
Madson dismembered her. >> Yeah. So, cannot It's not the same Peter Madson. Like, liter like the timelines
00:36:20
don't add up. There is no world in which this guy is that guy, >> right? And like the the case that I'm
00:36:26
talking about with the submarine happened in like the like 2017 2018, like >> very new,
00:36:30
>> pretty recently. >> Again, has nothing to do with anything, but when I when I Google and the first
00:36:35
thing to pop up is this, I was like >> Peter Madson murderer >> dismember. I was like, what are the
00:36:40
freaking odds? It was so >> No, that's wild. odd. But obviously that didn't happen earlier and Pete Madsen of
00:36:47
1981 was more of a blip on police's radar. They were far more interested in people like Otis Tulle
00:36:57
and Henry Lee Lucas as they popped onto the radar. Oh, what cases haven't they shown up in?
00:37:03
>> Honestly, I I need to do an actual episode on them someday because I truly don't know what they have or have not
00:37:10
been firmly linked to. But these dudes were like serial confessors. >> I was going to say do an episode. It
00:37:15
would just be a list of >> episodes we've already done. >> Yeah. Crimes that they confessed to that
00:37:19
we've already covered and they have nothing to do with. That would be the episode,
00:37:22
>> especially when you have a case where dismemberment was involved. They tend to
00:37:25
show always show up, especially around this time. But if you know anything about them, I don't think they fit the
00:37:30
profile at all. And there's no point in spiraling here because Detective Nichols
00:37:34
told us that they too have been ruled out. Now, police did spend some time looking into a suspicious butcher.
00:37:42
>> Oh. >> Which I was like, "Huh?" Like, again, I know we said we're looking for someone
00:37:45
with medical knowledge, but like we talked about a hunter. >> Yeah. And a a butcher would like fit
00:37:50
into that sort of like knowledge base, >> especially when you think about the fact
00:37:55
that each body part was wrapped in newspaper. Like that feels very butcheresque to me.
00:38:01
>> Yeah. Like wrapping meat in butcher paper. Yeah. >> So, this guy uh his name is Mike Spring.
00:38:06
He comes on the scene because in September of 1981, he wrecked his pickup truck, but then left the scene of the
00:38:13
accident. And when a state trooper found the wreckage, he found several large knives inside,
00:38:19
>> which like might not be suspicious for a butcher or like meat cutter. >> Maybe not. But when they tracked Mike
00:38:27
down, they learned that he went by a completely different name. >> Oh, Jim Blunk, which turned out to be
00:38:32
his real name. So, Mike Spring was just an alias. And I'm not sure what exactly made
00:38:40
investigators zero in on him at the time. But when he was asked what he was doing the day that Kristen vanished, he
00:38:47
claimed to be out of town. And although there is nothing in the report explicitly stating that his alibi was
00:38:53
confirmed, Detective Nichols told us that they must have confirmed it or found some other reason to eliminate him
00:38:59
because she said that he was definitely eliminated. And I looked him up because like my biggest thing in these is like
00:39:06
just because something was done a bazillion years ago if something is still unsolved maybe like go back and
00:39:10
check. >> I was going to say like I feel like this is such a like such a situation where it
00:39:14
could be like but did we cross that tea? Like how many times have we said like well they must have been ruled out
00:39:20
because we aren't talking about them today and that hasn't been the case. >> I've met so many investigators who are
00:39:24
working a cold case and the file leaves something open-ended and I'm like so how
00:39:28
do you know this guy's ruled out? And they're like oh we just know >> we moved on.
00:39:31
>> He like oh somebody before me did it. I'm like, "Yeah, but how." And if you can't say how,
00:39:35
>> like, "Show your work." Right? >> All that to say, I'm not saying that the FBI has that wrong. I probably don't
00:39:40
have a lot. But with most of these people, I'm like looking up just to see, hey, has anything happened between 1981
00:39:45
and now that would like stand out? The only record I could find on this guy was like a DUI. So, you can see a lot was
00:39:53
happening in 1981. Lots of men are coming on their radar for nefarious reasons. But then comes 1982.
00:40:03
That's when someone comes on their radar for writing a song. >> Okay. A song feels like a crime junkie
00:40:10
first. >> I know. And I love that I still have first with you. Like I just hate that
00:40:13
it's this because this song will make your skin crawl. So, in 1982, there is this student at
00:40:26
Washington State University who wrote a song called I don't want to go to jail. And this song had been printed in a
00:40:35
program promoting a rugby game. And I have the lyrics, but like I hope I'm doing a good job at pretending I'm okay.
00:40:42
I'm like starting to get really sick and lose my voice. And so, if you don't mind, I'm actually I planned on reading
00:40:46
it, but I'm going to have you read it instead. Oh, this is like a proper song. Okay.
00:40:51
>> That they printed. Just stop. I can't. >> I don't want to go to jail. I don't want
00:40:57
to go to jail. I met a girl and I really had to know her. Only a few ways I could
00:41:03
really show her. I built a fire and threw her up on top. And as I walked away, she began to snap, crackle, and
00:41:11
pop. Put her in the bathtub, threw in the radio, and as I turned away, she began to glow. Had her over for dinner,
00:41:20
put glass in her food. As she began to choke, the blood really spewed. Jabbed a knife in her uterine wall. Now she can't
00:41:28
have any children at all. Reached down her throat and I pulled out some veins, cracked her skull like an egg, and
00:41:36
poured out her brains. You guys, I'm only like halfway through. It keeps going. I took a fork and stuck it in her eye.
00:41:44
Now she can't laugh, and by God, she can't even cry. I took an axe and nipped off all her toes. I took all 10 of them
00:41:52
and stuffed them up her nose. I took barbed wire and wrapped it around her throat, threw her in the river just to
00:42:00
see if she would float. >> Mhm. >> I tied her down and plucked out both of her eyes, smeared her with honey, and
00:42:08
left her for the flies. threw her in the oven, turned it on to broil, and when I
00:42:14
opened the door, she was stuck to the coils, broke both her legs, and I poured out all the marrow, cut off big hunks of
00:42:23
her flesh, and fed them to the sparrows. Now I'm in jail, and I love her oh so much. I kept her hand so we could keep
00:42:34
in touch. And then there's a little note at the bottom that says, "Repeat as many times
00:42:42
as intelligence permits." Ashley, we've talked about this before. You have me read some of the most horrific things on
00:42:50
these episodes. This might take the cake. >> So, this guy, apparently, it wasn't just
00:42:57
him that wrote it. He said it was him and a group of his buddies. >> Okay. Why write it? And then also this was
00:43:05
published advertising like a sports game at the school. What what happened here?
00:43:11
>> Yeah. How are you like, you know, we're just going to like skip over the national anthem. Let's print this
00:43:15
instead. Like the8s were a lawless time. And I'm not going to say this guy's name. We looked into him. No criminal
00:43:21
record. Detective Nicholls says that this was just this dude being a dumb kid. >> A really dumb kid.
00:43:29
>> I agree. I mean like how you have to like I don't know. But anyways, this guy
00:43:34
is one of the few people who actually like picked up the phone and talked to us for this episode. He's like, "Listen,
00:43:40
this was a really stupid thing to do. We did it as a joke when I was like drunk with my buddies." And I guess he says
00:43:48
that like writing traditional like rugby songs or writing rugby rugby songs is some kind of tradition and normally
00:43:52
they're more sexual in nature. So, I don't know if like that was like a justification for what is happening on
00:43:58
this page. But he in the end, like to us, he claimed that he didn't even know who Kristen David was. And by the way,
00:44:05
that even though this came on police's radar, I know it did, they never actually spoke to him. So, they must not
00:44:11
have taken this very seriously. Now, even though they never questioned him, there was a woman's rights group who
00:44:17
wrote an article in the paper basically calling him out for all of this. Okay. But I'm kind of stuck on the fact that
00:44:24
police never even so much as talked to this guy. Like that seems kind of bonkers.
00:44:30
>> I know. He he even claims so I mean he told us he regrets writing the song but
00:44:33
he says that he didn't even know that his name had been brought up because I mean that's how much it's not like they
00:44:38
asked around about him or anything like it never even made it back to him that this song made it to police about this
00:44:43
crime. >> But like I can't help but see a lot of parallels in this song to the FBI
00:44:49
profile to what we know about the crime scene. Well, I feel like you I hope you heard it while I was reading the lyrics.
00:44:56
Like, there are like >> very direct parallels, >> right? And like, sure, okay, the FBI
00:45:02
says that he didn't do anything. You know, he doesn't have a criminal record when we look it up now. All fine and
00:45:06
good, but like, you know, my question is like, who are these people he wrote it with? Like,
00:45:10
>> right, >> I bet they would fit square into this profile, too. I have a lot of questions
00:45:16
still about this, but I seem to be the only one. Now, there are more people like this kid who pop up for weird
00:45:24
reasons, but who are either deemed not even worth looking into or who quickly get ruled out. I mean, the case file is
00:45:33
full of them. But there is one guy who Detective Nichols is still suspicious of all these years later, a man named Harry
00:45:40
Hatman. Harry was originally arrested for the sexual assault and murder of a young
00:45:46
girl in 1968, but he escaped the facility that he was being held at and remained on the run
00:45:53
for years. And he lived in a remote cabin in Hell's Canyon, Oregon, which is like 2 hours from Lewon, Idaho. Now,
00:46:00
when he was on the loose, they ended up finding out that he committed several violent crimes in the area, including
00:46:06
abducting a woman. And then he finally gets rearrested in 1993. like he was he was on the run for a long time. So,
00:46:13
Detective Nichols has always wondered if he could have abducted Kristen, taken her to his remote cabin hours away from
00:46:19
Lewon, killed her, and dismembered her there. Detective Nichols even says that Harry was somewhat of a career student,
00:46:26
like he would go to various colleges and take classes when he could, presumably even while he was in hiding. So, it's
00:46:32
possible that he could have gone to the University of Idaho where he saw Kristen. We also know that he was a big
00:46:39
game hunter and previously had driven vans, although it's still unknown if he actually drove a brown van at the time
00:46:45
of Kristine's disappearance. And unfortunately, he's not around to even ask anymore. As much as Detective
00:46:51
Nichols was suspicious of him, he died by suicide in 1994. So, I have to ask because it's kind of the
00:47:00
guy who brought us here. Does Lance Voss ever show up in any of Kristen's case files? So that's what's so interesting
00:47:06
to me. No, Lance, if you didn't listen to last week, he is this guy that everyone talks about in connection with
00:47:13
a lot of the crimes that were happening in this area, disappearances, murders, >> which is like Kristen gets lumped into
00:47:19
in a lot of them. >> He is not mentioned once in what I've seen, which really, at least for me,
00:47:25
confirms that she's probably not related to the other murders and disappearances
00:47:29
in the valley. But for some reason, like you said, she keeps getting lumped in. And I think that can cause real harm,
00:47:35
you know, like maybe someone hasn't come forward with information because the public has tunnel vision or the public
00:47:41
thinks like, oh, police must be thinking this is right. They don't think necessarily that he did anything to
00:47:46
Kristen. But that is not to say that her case isn't connected to others. Maybe we're just looking at the wrong suspect.
00:47:55
Dismemberment is a very specific method. >> What was done to her body in death was
00:48:02
specific. And this does not feel like something that just happened as a one-off out of the blue. There are other
00:48:08
dismemberment cases in the Pacific Northwest area around this time frame. But what if one part of the profile
00:48:15
that's wrong is the part about this guy being local? And I know there was a part
00:48:20
in the profile that suggests like maybe he like like knew the area for a little bit. Like what I think is like what if
00:48:25
he was local for a minute, say like stationed nearby, but he moved around. Because recently I've been looking into
00:48:32
a former military man. His specific job in the military was as a medical lab specialist. And it seems like wherever
00:48:42
this guy traveled, dismembered women showed up. Colorado, South Carolina, Idaho, Wisconsin, Illinois, Georgia.
00:48:50
Dismembered with precision. Plastic bags often left around water, but not always.
00:48:57
specific ways in which the women were killed before they were dismembered. I'm not going to go into detail on the other
00:49:02
cases because I can't say 100% that they are all connected or connected to this man yet. But I find it very interesting
00:49:12
that this happylooking family man on Facebook in 2025 was actually charged with murder on a
00:49:20
military base in his early years while stationed overseas. He got off on a technicality and continued to serve and
00:49:27
be transferred all over the country. And by the way, if you look this guy up the
00:49:32
way I've been looking up other people to like look at his criminal record, there
00:49:35
is not one that pops up, which that's the part I can't wrap my head around. I don't know why none of this is showing
00:49:41
up, even though I know other agencies have talked to him. And also, I found it really interesting that years down the
00:49:46
line, his son was later convicted of a brutal murder and he had some choice things to say about his dad and his
00:49:55
upbringing. And listen, I know I am being vague, but it is because I can't say much yet. I usually don't bring all
00:50:01
of our crime junkies in until way later in the investigation, but I actually want to try something new. You guys have
00:50:07
proven to be an invaluable resource, and all of your eyes and ears and brains combined is better than months of my own
00:50:14
heads down researching alone, which I am still not stopping. But here's what I need. I'm looking for more cases that
00:50:22
could fit into a similar mo. Cases that happened in the 70s, 80s, '90s, maybe in
00:50:29
the early 2000s. We're looking for murdered women who were dismembered, bound in trash bags, and whose bodies
00:50:36
might have showed signs of mutilation. Specifically, cases where body parts were cut off in addition to the
00:50:42
dismemberment. Or cases where even after the remains of the victims were recovered, parts of the limb or part of
00:50:48
the victim was still missing. The case you're thinking of might just fit some or even all of what I mentioned. But if
00:50:55
you know of one in your area that is close to what I said, please email [email protected].
00:51:02
There is a very real possibility that Kristen's case isn't connected to the military man I'm looking into. But
00:51:07
whoever killed her, I have to believe that he did it before or after. And whether Kristen is connected or not,
00:51:13
people are looking into her case. Detective Nichols told us that testing led by the FBI continues to this day,
00:51:20
especially on those newspapers. and they wouldn't hate a helpful tip to nudge their investigation along. So, if you
00:51:26
know something specifically about Kristen's murder or someone you think might be worth looking into, reach out
00:51:32
to the FBI office in Salt Lake City. Remember the profile. He would have been young. Sounds like maybe a bit of a
00:51:39
narcissist. And there are likely other murders that have popped up wherever he goes. Maybe he owned a late model
00:51:45
vehicle. Maybe he has or had a brown van. Maybe he let something slip. and you're remembering it now as I'm
00:51:53
talking. If that's you, reach out to the FBI and let us know, too. This is a story we're actively following and
00:51:59
reporting, so we would love to hear from you. Again, that is tipsuck.com, and we'll have the FBI's contact info in
00:52:07
the episode notes. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkypodcast.com.
00:52:13
>> And you can follow us on Instagram, crimejunk podcast. >> We'll be back next week with a brand new
00:52:17
episode. [Applause] [Music]