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Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host Ashley Flowers. >> And I'm Brit. The story I have for you
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today takes place in small town Winnsboro, Texas, where everybody knows everybody, or at least they think they
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do. You know who's trouble, you know who's got a temper, who to tell your teen daughter to stay away from.
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So when a 19-year-old is found dead in her boyfriend's bed, it doesn't feel random. You can practically hear the
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gossip at the gas pump, the church parking lot, echoing through the checkout line. There are men with
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motive, men with violent past, men the town already talk about. But here's the thing that I'm hung up on. Only a
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handful of them even knew where she would be that day. And when the circle is that small, someone inside knows
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exactly what happened. This is the story of Brittany McGlone. It's mid-afternoon on May 4th, 2007,
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when mom Patricia gets a call from her daughter's boyfriend, Jeff Stogner. And that alone is kind of strange, because
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Patricia's not exactly Jeff's biggest fan. So they've never been like on casual calling terms. But she answers
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anyway to a concerned Jeff asking, "Have you heard from Brittany?" And Patricia's
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like, "What do you mean have I heard from her? She's supposed to be staying with you." But he's saying that he left
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early that morning to pick up his grandma a couple of hours away, and every time he tried to reach Brittany,
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she hadn't been picking up her cell. Whatever is happening feels wrong to Patricia. So they hang up and she tries
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Brittany's cell over and over, but she's not answering for mom either. So she ends up calling Jeff back, and as she
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does, it sounds like he's pulling up to his house. And he gives her the last moment of relief she may ever have, cuz
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he says, "Never mind, her truck is still outside the house, she must just sleeping really hard.
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>> And this is at what time? This is like 3:30 in the afternoon. >> Oh. But Brittany just had worked an
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overnight shift at the Lowe's distribution center. So, like normally when she gets off sometime before like
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5:00 a.m., she would like go home, shower, sleep, maybe see Jeff later. But this day was different. So, instead of
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going home first, she went straight to Jeff so that they could hang out a little bit before he had to go pick up
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his grandma. So, it seems like it would be normal for her to like sleep in. So, yeah, cuz she worked overnight. I
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guess why is he calling her mom so soon then? Well, so yes, normal for her to sleep in because she could have used the
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extra sleep, but she rarely got it. So, in addition to her overnight job, she also had one at this place called Alco,
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which is a discount store. And she was doing both jobs because she planned to save up money for nursing school. So,
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again, could have used the sleep, but it was pretty unlike her to be asleep like
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that all day, which it seems is maybe what made Jeff concerned enough to call her mom to begin with. And it turns out
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he had every right to be concerned. Because when Jeff walks into his bedroom, Brittany is still in his bed
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where he says he left her. But she is not sleeping. Brittany is completely naked, and there
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is blood everywhere. On the sheets, on the pillow, cast off on the wall behind the
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bed. Like the kind of pattern you would see when someone is struck over and over
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again. But the thing is, whatever she had been beaten with, something that they later determined to possibly be
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like a tire iron or a crowbar type thing, that isn't around anywhere. In fact, nothing other than Brittany's
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seems out of place. Her jeans and boots are still right there on the floor where
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she left them when she changed out of her work clothes earlier that morning. Now, interestingly, Jeff says that she
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was wearing a T-shirt and underwear when she hopped into bed with him. The shirt
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not on her, but still there. But, the underwear she had on, that's gone. And here's the thing that really stands
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out to Wood County Sheriff's deputies once they arrive. In the bathroom, there are signs that the killer took a shower.
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Oh, that's kind of like someone who was comfortable there. >> My thoughts exactly. Everything so far
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points to this being close and personal. Someone who could keep composed enough to clean themselves up while Britney lay
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bludgeoned to death in that bed. In that bed, in her boyfriend's bed, the one night she broke her routine and went
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there instead of home. And that part is really important. Like you said, this wasn't routine for Britney. I told you
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she would normally go to her house first. And apparently, Jeff's mom didn't like her very much either. Britney
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wasn't close with the family. She and Jeff had only been dating like 6 months, and they'd been on and off in that time.
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So, to Britney's mom, Patricia, it sort of felt like too much of a coincidence. Like, okay, the one time that Britney
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does this, this happens. So, who all knew that she was going to be there? Well, I mean, it
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sounds like Jeff and his family would have been some of the only few people privy to her plan to crash there.
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But, here's the thing. This wasn't Jeff's own personal pad. I mean, he's 21 at the time, still living at home with
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mom, stepdad, and younger brother and sister. And this is a small one-story home.
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Now, that morning, brother went to school, sister had stayed over with her boyfriend, so she's not there, and I
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guess she just went straight to school from his place, and stepdad drops mom off at work, but he's back at like 7:45
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or so. And then, he, Jeff, and Britney are all there until stepdad and Jeff leave together to go to grandma's at
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around 9:00 a.m. So, when they arrive back home that afternoon, and Jeff makes this horrific discovery.
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Supposedly, stepdad is just right around the corner, close enough to hear him yell.
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But here's where something caught my attention. Wood County 911. What's the problem right now? What's
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exactly? >> his girlfriend's dead in the bed. She's dead? Yes. Okay. It looks like somebody come in and hit
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her in the head with something. Mhm, that sure doesn't sound like Jeff or his stepdad.
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>> Yeah, cuz it's Jeff's mom. Well, isn't she supposed to be at work? She was, but
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somehow around the same time Jeff and stepdad are finding Britney, Jeff's mom is either already back home and just
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like didn't like notice Britney, maybe she didn't go in the room, or she just so happens to show up like at the same
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time they did to call 911. And if that's the case, the timing is kind of wild because I don't think she normally got
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off work early enough to be there at 3:30. But apparently on this day, she wanted to leave early because she needed
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to clean the house before Grandma got back. Again, they're going to pick up Grandma, Grandma's coming over for a
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visit. And I don't know, this could be absolutely nothing. There's just nothing in the reports that explains when mom
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got there, how she ended up getting home because she would have needed a ride. >> Right, cuz stepdad dropped her off.
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>> They only had one car. I know our reporter Madison wanted to ask all of these questions, but Jeff's mom and
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stepdad have both since passed away since 2007. In old police reports though, stepdad does vouch for Jeff.
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They were together the whole ride to and from Grandma's. So, if Jeff did something, that really only leaves the
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short time they were like home alone when his mom was getting dropped off at work.
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>> Right, well, not even that because his stepdad vouches for him there, too. He
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says that he saw Britney for himself sleeping, but definitely still alive and well before they leave at 9:00 like
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after he comes back from dropping mom off. And apparently they have to actually like pass through Jeff's
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bedroom on the way out the door. >> But are we are we buying stepdad's story? Like he could be covering for
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Jeff. Say something happened, Jeff comes to him for help. They make up this whole
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road trip thing to throw off suspicion. That would explain more of why Jeff started calling her mom. Like
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they're trying to establish this alibi. >> sound This is the thing. It sounds like
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the road trip was planned all along. Like it's the whole reason why Britney was even sleeping there to begin with
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because they knew that he was going to have to go get grandma. So they wanted to hang out a bit before that. So if
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you're going to theorize that the road trip was a staged alibi, that has like far-reaching implications.
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>> much bigger than that. >> Right. So before we get carried away with kind of I think far-fetched
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theories, first things first. Detectives need to verify Jeff and his stepdad's shared story. Was this trip to get
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grandma even real? Now the story was that they stopped at a convenience store along the way, picked up grandma, and
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then they made their way back home to Windsboro. So investigators checked that route. They pulled surveillance footage
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from their stop, and the timestamps line up. Everything checks out according to detectives. That feels like too simple.
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Well, it's just one piece. I mean this rules out the possibility that they were lying about the trip, but there's still
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a possibility that something happened to Britney before they left. And how is Jeff reacting to all of this? Like when
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the deputy show up and during all of the aftermath? Devastated. I mean distraught. I guess how you would
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expect. But they still took him down to the sheriff's office and went in on him because according to Britney's family,
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there's real motive there. You see, we've talked to a lot of families of the murdered. And usually when a cop shows
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up at their door telling them that their loved one is dead, most of the time their first thought is like some sort of
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accident, right? Like because that is just so much more likely. >> Right, like a car crash or something.
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>> Right, but that was not Patricia's first thought. She told Madison that the deputies who showed up would only tell
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her that her daughter was deceased at first. They would not tell her how or when, like zero details.
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But she was sure that her daughter had been murdered. And her immediate suspicion was her boyfriend, Jeff. So,
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what's the history there? It's not deep, but Patricia told us that Jeff was just like on a completely
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different path than Britney. Not as responsible, no stable job. And like the way she describes it, she thought he was
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kind of dark, like emo vibes, but not in like the cute boy band kind of way. So,
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she actually discouraged Britney from dating him. But even more than that, I mean it's the timing of it all. You see,
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Britney and Jeff had just gotten back together. According to Britney's mom, Jeff was Britney's first love, her first
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of a lot of things, but they had been broken up the month before and during that time, Britney ended up sleeping
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with another guy. Britney actually told Jeff about it, so it's not like he found out from some
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other place, but people had wondered if maybe like that could have been the thing behind this. Though when
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detectives asked Jeff about this, he tells them absolutely not. They were broken up when this happened. It was
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like fair game. Britney did nothing wrong. >> Was there any abuse in the relationship?
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>> No. No abuse that her family ever knew of. So, then what? The thinking is that
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he had sex with her like one more time and then made sure no one else could? Well, this definitely not that actually
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because Jeff told police that they didn't sleep together when she came over that morning. Which like I'm sure
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investigators probably find a little hard to believe or maybe they like believe that they didn't have sex right
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away when she came over, but they do think that this crime is sexually motivated. I mean, Britney is naked, her
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underwear is missing. >> Yeah. They're probably pretty confident that they're going to be able to tie
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someone, Jeff or otherwise, to this crime through forensics. And honestly, him saying that they didn't have sex is
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great for detectives because if they do find DNA, like he has taken away any excuse for his to be there, right? But
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Britt, they get the shock of their lives when an autopsy is done, lab tests are run,
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and there is no semen found. The sheriff told us, according to the medical examiner, Britney actually was not
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sexually assaulted after all. So, maybe Jeff's telling the truth. Well, they wanted to put that to the test,
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literally, and polygraph both Jeff and his stepdad. They couldn't do it right away though because
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Winsboro, this is out in the country kind of, so they're going to have to bring in a polygrapher from another
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city. That's going to take a minute. So, in the meantime, they do what they can to go down other paths, like checking
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out this guy that Britney has supposedly slept with, right? This like in a month
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ago or whatever. Now, the guy cooperates, he sits down with them and says the same thing as everyone else.
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Their hookup was just this like one-time thing. They've been drinking, no hard feelings, like it didn't become more.
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And that's it, they cross him off the list. I mean, let's go back to the fact that hardly anyone knew that she would
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be over at that house. Like, who who are those people again? That's like Jeff, his family, like I guess her mom, but
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like who else? Well, that was one of the questions they first asked Jeff. And Jeff brings up this guy named Cody. He
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admits that Cody is his weed guy, and he says that morning before he left, he'd put cash under this garden gnome outside
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their house. This was like their little system. Leave the money there, Cody would swing by later, drop off the weed.
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Except, he says this day was different because by the time Jeff got back that afternoon, the money was gone, but there
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was no marijuana. So, detectives go and track this Cody guy down, and his story complicates things. Yes, he admits that
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he sold weed to Jeff, but he says he didn't that day. He says that Jeff was like blowing up
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his phone, texting him, like, "Did you drop it off yet, dude? Like, did you go by the house?" And Cody admits he like
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got annoyed, so he just texted back, "Yes." But, he says he didn't actually go over to the house. So, either Jeff's
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telling the truth and he left the money, Cody went there and took it, putting him
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at the scene, which means he's lying about being there. >> Mhm. Or Jeff could be lying when he says
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the money got picked up because he's trying to place someone else there. Or option C, whoever else in this small
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circle of people who knew Britney was there alone maybe also knew about this garden gnome
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arrangement. Now, within about a week after Britney's murder, her family and friends gather for her funeral.
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And if you've ever been to a small town funeral, you know how they feel. The whole place shows up. People you haven't
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seen in years, people you barely know, people whispering about who may have done it.
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>> And probably people you don't even want to be there. >> Uh-huh. And although detectives seem to
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be moving farther and farther from Jeff the more they dissect his alibi, Britney's family makes it clear. Jeff
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and his family are not welcome. Emotions are high. Nobody knows what happened yet. All the trust is thin for good
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reason. But them showing up anyway isn't actually the only drama that sticks with
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Britney's sister Hope at the funeral because there somebody else shows up. Someone she actually might be more
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concerned about in this moment. And that is their grandfather, James McGlone. Now this isn't their grandfather by
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blood. It's their dad's adopted father. And Hope told us that at one point he walks up next to her, like puts his arm
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around her, and says, "Have you gone to see the body yet?" And she froze because this wasn't
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just a grieving grandpa asking an awkward question. See, no matter how many people are there at the funeral,
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she knows something that no one else does yet. A secret that Britney had been keeping that was big enough to be motive
00:16:11
for murder. Quiet coastal towns may seem peaceful, but they can harbor dark secrets. I'm
00:16:21
Kylie Low, host of Dark Down East, a podcast that tells true crime stories from my own New England community to
00:16:27
help victims and families get justice. Listen to Dark Down East wherever you get your podcasts.
00:16:37
Britney had confided in her sister Hope before she died that their grandfather had been sexually abusing her.
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This went on from the time she was young up until fairly recently. It was devastating for Hope to hear, but at the
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time she didn't push Britney for more details. And trying to be a loyal younger sister, Hope hadn't told anyone
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right away. She wanted to leave that up to Britney to do when she was ready. But now that Britney's not there to
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speak for herself, now that grandpa is over here talking about the body like it doesn't belong to someone she loves,
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Hope felt compelled to come forward thinking that there might be a chance that he had something to do with what
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happened to Brittany and she was right to do so because other family members were able to fill in more of the blanks
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and it comes out that Brittany had told her aunt about how grandpa would make her feel uncomfortable like he would
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show up at her work and stuff and it seemed to be getting worse once she started dating Jeff.
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>> Like he was triggered by her having like her first real boyfriend? That or like
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now that she was getting older now that she has a boyfriend maybe he was worried
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that Brittany was going to start telling people what he'd been doing. I mean we know now she already was.
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>> if he'd been showing up at her work and stuff do we think he may have been following her too? So here's the wild
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part. James McGlone actually lives in the same community as Jeff like right across the lake. So maybe he didn't know
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Brittany was going to spend the night that night. >> But he could have easily seen that her
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truck was there. And seen that everyone else had left. When this revelation makes it to
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investigators they find out that even Jeff knew about the grandfather's abuse. Apparently Brittany had confided in him
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too. >> So grandpa's biggest fear is becoming a reality. >> Yeah. Now the question is did he know
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that or not or did he think that she still held his secret and getting rid of her might make it go away. I mean you
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want to talk about motive this is motive. So they check grandpa out and pretty quickly they come to one
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conclusion. He couldn't have killed Brittany. I guess time card showed that from 7:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. on the day
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she was murdered he was at work. Now James ended up dying in 2009 but detectives feel pretty confident that he
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didn't commit this crime murder against Brittany. But the whole ordeal coming to
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light so suddenly made the family realize that Britney may have been surrounded by more than just one person
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capable of pure evil. That's a hard pill for them to swallow. And the mystery only deepens once polygraphs are
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administered. Weed guy, Cody? Pass. Jeff's stepdad? Pass. Jeff? They say he passes with flying colors.
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So, what now? Police are probably shocked and a lot stumped. I mean, I know polygraphs aren't perfect, but these,
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combined with other verification that they've been able to do with people's alibis,
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it really is looking like none of these people were involved. So, detectives go back. What had they missed? Who had they
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missed? And it turns out there was just one more person. Someone easy to gloss over because his
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role in Britney's life seemed so insignificant and almost non-existent. But he was the only other person that
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for a fact knew Britney was in the home alone that day. Someone who was close enough to the family to know that there
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might be money under the garden gnome. And his name is Chad Carr. I mentioned that Jeff had two younger
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siblings, a brother and a sister. Well, his sister, Velva, is dating Chad. And included in the original timeline that
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Jeff gave deputies of the day that Britney was murdered, he mentions that around 8:30 in the morning or so, as him
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and his stepdad are fixing up their car to leave, Chad stopped by to pick something up for Velva. And the
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interaction they have is like pretty brief. Like, he didn't even go into the house. They actually told him not to
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because Britney was there sleeping. So, he gets what he needs from them and leaves. Oh, why isn't he also at school
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at 8:30 in the morning? Oh, because Chad is a grown ass man. He isn't in school anymore. He's 25 years old at the time
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dating Jeff's high school sister. >> I'm sorry, absolutely not. >> To make it even worse, people we spoke
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to told us that it wasn't just her age. She also may have been mentally vulnerable, too.
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So, Chad wasn't there when they left the house. And like I said, he has almost no
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connection to Brittany other than the fact that they're like dating siblings. They don't even really hang out and
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there's no beef between them. Like, there were people with far more motive. But now, they're realizing that maybe
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he's the only person who checks a lot of most of all of the boxes. >> did he have a key to the house? He
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didn't. And like there was no forced entry, but he would have known that the family
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didn't usually lock their doors out there in the country where they live. So, now that they're looking at Chad in
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a new light, they're going back through every page of the file that they have. Did we like miss anything else? Like,
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does he show up anywhere else? And they do find this one report that stands out. It's from a deputy who was
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there on scene right after they had found Brittany. And sometime after school, Velva and Chad show back up at
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the house. And Chad is acting straight-up weird. He is shaking. He's visibly nervous. He's all fidgety. So
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nervous that Velva actually tells him to chill out, that the deputy's a nice guy.
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And maybe they chalk it up to the stress of the situation. Like, this is a situation most people don't find
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themselves in. So, they didn't do anything with it at the time. But now, now they want to have another
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conversation with this Chad guy. He's reluctant to comply at first. But when he does, he gives detectives a
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play-by-play of his entire day. Like, he's extremely detailed about every stop that he made. Almost like he's trying to
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establish an alibi before anyone even asks him for one. And here's what Chad lays out. He says that after he stopped
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by the family's house that morning, he drove to Alcoa where his aunt works and she asked him to pick up breakfast for
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her at Sonic. But instead of going straight there, he says that he went home first to change clothes for what
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law enforcement later remember as being like some weather related reason. Like maybe it was like too hot or something.
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Then he goes to Sonic. Then he goes back to Alcoa to drop off the food. And then
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after that, he says he arrives 15 minutes early to his 10:00 eye appointment. And then he left the
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doctor's at around 11:40 or so. From there, he picks up Velva from school at 11:55. They go to the bank, they go to
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lunch, and then after lunch Chad and Velva go back to the eye doctor's at 1:30. Why did they go back? I don't
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know. It's probably It's not in the report so we say I'm I'm assuming to like pick up a prescription or glasses
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or something. Whatever. But after the eye doctor, they go to the insurance office and then a flower shop,
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then another store, back to Alcoa. >> That's a lot of stops. I know. And then finally, that is when Chad and Velva end
00:24:02
up at the crime scene shortly after law enforcement. So let's call that somewhere between like 3:30 and
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4:00-ish. >> Okay. And when investigators start trying to verify his timeline, it does check out.
00:24:15
Sort of. So Chad did go to his eye doctor appointment that was scheduled for 10:00 a.m.
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However, he's saying he got there early. But according to two staff members, Chad
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actually showed up late at 10:20. And they remember this clearly because he even called to give them a heads up that
00:24:34
he was going to be late. Said that he was having car trouble or something, which like
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weird. I don't think he mentioned any car trouble to detectives. Well, like maybe he was just like using excuse at
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the doctor's office like to like make up for the like, you know, just to get out
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of it, you know. >> Sure. But then why was he really late if he didn't have car trouble?
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Great question. And remember how Chad said that he went home and changed his clothes that morning cuz it was like too
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hot, whatever. >> hot. Well, sure. Maybe that was the reason, but we pulled the weather
00:25:04
reports and it was fairly mild for Texas that May morning. High 60s, low 70s. So,
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detectives told us that they found that excuse for why he might have been in different clothes when people saw him.
00:25:17
And when he showed up on surveillance footage, weak. And they know Britney wasn't just
00:25:23
killed, right? She was beaten to death in a small room. Chances are that her killer was covered in her blood. Like,
00:25:31
you can't be walking around like that. And don't forget, one of the earliest flags to detectives was that the shower
00:25:37
in the house appeared to have been used. >> Right. And as they keep digging into
00:25:41
Chad's story, they realize that even though he is accounted for for a lot of the day, either by people or with
00:25:47
surveillance video, there is this small window of time where he wasn't. From around 9:21 when he shows up on
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surveillance footage leaving the Alco store until about 10:20 when the doctor's office says that he finally
00:26:03
shows up for his appointment. >> So, he would have had to do all that driving, commit the murder, and clean himself up
00:26:10
in like an hour? Yeah, but all the stops, I mean again, it's it's just like the stops he made in that that that
00:26:17
little window, they're like in a super close radius. Like, from the Alco to the crime scene, it's like 6 minutes.
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>> Oh. So, they give Chad the same treatment that they do everyone else. Bring in the polygrapher.
00:26:30
And finally, they get their first big fat fail. Obviously, this doesn't mean everything, but along with the other
00:26:39
circumstantial evidence, it is something. >> Yeah. They just need something more cuz
00:26:45
I think the thing that was partially haunting everyone was why. Because when they talked to Britney's
00:26:51
family, they say didn't know this guy from Adam. This was the first time they were ever even hearing the name Chad
00:26:57
Carr. And according to Britney's mom and sister, he and Britney seemed to just be
00:27:02
like ships passing in the night, like orbiting each other from time to time, maybe, sure, but like simply
00:27:08
acquaintances. He was just Jeff's sister's boyfriend. And this isn't just coming from them. No one they talked to
00:27:16
could connect Chad to Britney in any meaningful way. And even in all our reporting, the only thing we were able
00:27:21
to dig up is that Britney had mentioned Chad before to an aunt. Not even by name, just calling him Velva's
00:27:27
boyfriend. But she said that he gave her the creeps. And listen, when you talk about motive, like we know nothing from
00:27:33
the house was stolen, so it's not like he went to the house to try and take things while she was sleeping and then
00:27:39
she surprised him. Someone went to that room to kill her. That was the goal here. I mean, to me there has to be some
00:27:47
kind of sexual component though, like with her being naked and her underwear being missing.
00:27:53
>> I agree, but it's just that no one can point to anything that Chad ever said or
00:27:56
did that would be a precursor to this. At least not to Britney, but when they did look into Chad's past, there was
00:28:05
something hard to ignore. You see, years earlier, in 2001, a woman reported to deputies that Chad
00:28:13
assaulted her by hitting her in the head with a jack handle, which I don't know if you're familiar with that, but
00:28:20
>> Yeah, it's a like a tire iron. >> Yeah, the kind of weapon that Britney was possibly killed with. The weapon
00:28:26
that they've never been able to find. And listen, once you hear the details of this other attack, it's hard not to draw
00:28:34
some chilling parallels. According to the report we have, it's a couple of days before Christmas in 2001,
00:28:45
in the same small town of Winnsboro, Texas. a woman we're going to call Debbie was working the second shift at
00:28:50
her parents' video store in town when Chad Carr drops by with his wife. >> wife? Yeah, he'd been married before.
00:28:58
He's obviously divorced by the time he was dating Velva, by the time that Britney was murdered, but apparently he
00:29:03
had gotten married pretty young, like when he was 18. Now, Debbie knew Chad. He was good friends with her soon-to-be
00:29:09
ex-husband. So, they get to talking and she mentions how her parents have a bunch of people in town staying at her
00:29:14
place for the holidays. Space for her and her daughter was getting tight, so she was actually going to spend the
00:29:19
night in The report just says "the trailer", so I don't know if this was like her old place with her husband or
00:29:25
if her family owned it or what, but her and her daughter were going to go there so that they didn't have to sleep on the
00:29:29
couch. So, there's nothing to this. Chad and his wife leave. Debbie gets off work
00:29:34
at 10:00, picks up her daughter and her pup from her mom, and then goes to the trailer at around 11:00.
00:29:40
Now, Debbie says she puts her daughter down in bed and then she stays up watching movies and she was kind of like
00:29:45
dozing in and out. So, finally at like 5:30 in the morning, she went to the bedroom to sleep next to her daughter.
00:29:53
But, shortly after laying down, her dog starts barking. That's not normal, so she kind of like
00:29:59
sits there still for a second and then she hears leaves crunching, like footsteps,
00:30:07
and then knocks on her front door. So, Debbie gets up and as she's making her short walk to the front door, she
00:30:13
could see who was standing outside. It's Chad Carr. He's like looking through the
00:30:18
glass and she could tell that he spotted her. So, she goes to the door and opens
00:30:23
it and asks Chad the obvious question, like, "Why are you here >> this hour?" And he says, "Oh, I was just
00:30:29
in the area picking up a coworker." Okay. But, her spidey senses go off. Like, she knows this coworker that he
00:30:36
mentioned, like, he gave her a specific name, and that person doesn't live around here. So, she says the name kind
00:30:42
of skeptically, like, "You're picking up that guy?" >> Him? Yeah, and that's when Chad like
00:30:47
backtracks. Oh, like, no, not that guy. It was actually one of that guy's friends. Like, it doesn't matter. He's
00:30:52
not home anyways, but that's neither here nor there, he says. I stopped by because I saw someone outside your
00:30:57
trailer. And as I pulled up, this small car sped away. Now, this obviously worries her, so she's like, "Okay, can
00:31:04
you just like stay here on the front porch, keep an eye out. I'm going to like get my daughter together, get our
00:31:09
stuff. We're going to go back to my parents' house." So, she goes to the bedroom to get her
00:31:13
things, and when she comes back to the living room, she sees Chad standing there, very much not on the front porch
00:31:20
like she asked. But still, she doesn't seem concerned because Chad's there to help, right? So, she
00:31:26
told him again, like, "Listen, I'm just going to get my things together." And she goes to like move past him, and she
00:31:31
kneels down on the floor for something. And then Chad asks her this chilling question, "Are you sure there's no one
00:31:39
else here?" Like, of course she's sure. Like, what do you mean? >> Yeah. And then came the blow to her
00:31:45
head. This didn't knock Debbie out, but it stunned her. So, she like jumps up and yelled, "You just hit me in the
00:31:52
head." And when she flicked on the light, she saw Chad with a red jack handle that had a rubber grip. And Chad
00:31:59
seemed stunned, too. He was saying, "Oh my god, I'm going to jail. Please don't tell anybody."
00:32:05
>> What? >> And I don't know if she meant it at the time or if she was just in shock or
00:32:10
survival mode, but she told him that she wouldn't. She just needed to get her daughter. But when she went to the room
00:32:16
and like bent down to pick up her daughter, she felt blood dripping down her neck. And so, she like reaches back
00:32:22
with both hands, touches the spot where she'd been hit, and when she looks at her hands, they are covered in blood.
00:32:30
>> when Chad saw it, he just began apologizing. There wasn't time for apologies, though.
00:32:34
She told him she needed to get to a hospital now. He needed to drive her. And he did. She had to get three staples
00:32:43
in her head to close the wound. Now, I don't know what exactly she told staff at the hospital or if Chad went in with
00:32:51
her, but I think that she was still trying to make sense of what had happened. So,
00:32:57
before going to police, she actually went to Chad's wife first. And she's told by her that when Chad got home that
00:33:05
day, he was acting really off, upset. And when she asked what was wrong, at first he would say that he had just done
00:33:12
something really bad. But she like kept pressing him. I'm not going to let my husband be like, I did something really
00:33:17
bad. >> like, "Okay, cool. Thanks." >> What was really bad? And he finally told her. Though what his exact words were to
00:33:24
his wife, I don't know. I just know that the day after Christmas, Debbie finally
00:33:29
worked up the courage to report what had happened to police. But when they go to
00:33:34
Chad, he says, "This was all a big misunderstanding." And he has like this whole story.
00:33:42
So, he says that on some previous date, he had met some guy at a gas station where he normally eats breakfast. And
00:33:50
that guy wanted to talk to Chad's boss about a job. So, Chad was going to pick this guy up the morning of the 22nd and
00:33:56
take him to his work. But this guy, who by the way, he can't even name, he couldn't find his house.
00:34:04
So, he took this rural road that went by Debbie's house like back to wherever he
00:34:08
was going because it was a faster way. Now, he says that he saw a small car parked in front of her place. So, he
00:34:14
went to see if she was all right. And is he stopping at like every house with a parked car? Cuz like
00:34:21
>> Okay, there's a car there. She's there. We know that. But he's like, "So, I got
00:34:25
to the door see if she's all right." And she's like, "Oh, you scared me because I
00:34:28
heard somebody walking." So, he says that she was scared. She was going to follow him back into town, so he waits
00:34:34
in the living room while she went and gathered her things, but then at some point he gets startled by some person
00:34:40
walking by and hits them in the head with the jack handle and realizes, oh my god, I accidentally hit Debbie.
00:34:46
Debbie, the person that you're there specifically for, you've talked to, you know is there.
00:34:51
>> in the This is a trailer. We're not in like a 5,000 square foot home. We are in
00:34:55
a small trailer. You know it's her there. Well, and also like the jack handle? Why do we have it to
00:35:01
begin with? I don't know if he like showed up at the door with it. It's like there's nothing mentioned in
00:35:06
operate with like a jack handle in his hand. So I don't know if he like came to the door with it. Again, his whole
00:35:12
thing, at least according to Debbie's story, is like, oh, I saw someone around, so I don't know if he like had
00:35:15
it initially. I don't know if he went back out and got I have no idea where this thing came from as far as like him
00:35:20
bringing it into the trailer. I do know that it comes up that his wife says he actually borrowed this thing from a
00:35:27
friend. So it's not even his, which I don't know if it's just like a coincidence that he
00:35:32
has this thing or or he's using it because it like like as a weapon because it's not his.
00:35:38
>> Like this, yeah. And also like, why was he there in the first place? Like I I don't I don't understand why he
00:35:44
would stop why he like why he exists in this like space at all. Well, so here, plot twist. I originally thought it
00:35:53
seemed like there wasn't a motive for this. Like kind of like in Britney's case, right? Like it's like, why Why
00:36:00
this person? Right, because there's nothing in the police reports that goes to motive. Is it just because you knew
00:36:06
she was going to be alone? Is it like you're her almost ex-husband's friend, like
00:36:11
whatever. But then we learned from a couple of people close to the situation that what was in the report may not be
00:36:18
the actual full story. Surprise, surprise. Allegedly, Chad and Debbie had been having an affair. And apparently, Debbie
00:36:27
was about to spill the beans to Chad's then wife. And obviously, he was not happy about that. Which
00:36:35
that makes way more sense why she took a minute before filing any kind of report.
00:36:42
>> if that's true, it all kind of clicks into place for me. But, it actually is the one thing then that really
00:36:49
differentiates this attack from the attack on Britney because >> he has a connection here. Right. And we
00:36:55
we asked and nobody thought cuz I cuz the first time I heard this I'm like, "Oh my god, do you think there was
00:36:59
anything with Chad and Britney?" And we asked everyone. Nobody thought they had anything going on. His connection to
00:37:05
Britney is still pretty much nada. Now, Chad doesn't commit any more offenses for the next 4 years. But, that's
00:37:13
because he ends up serving time for this attack on Debbie. He pled no contest to
00:37:18
the assault charge he was eventually hit with, and he stayed in jail until early
00:37:22
2006. But, just a few months after getting out, he's accused of sexually assaulting
00:37:28
his ex-wife. Ex because she had obviously moved on while he was in jail and for all the Debbie stuff. And then
00:37:34
less than a year after that, Britney is brutally murdered. And he becomes the main suspect. With
00:37:41
that past, a shaky alibi, and a failed polygraph, detectives have enough to get a search warrant for his aunt's place
00:37:49
where he'd been living. They're looking for anything to physically link him to the crime. Bloody
00:37:55
>> clothes, a murder weapon, Britney's missing underwear. Yeah. And they do find and take some interesting items
00:38:02
into evidence. Like a pair of white shorts with what appears to be drops of blood on them. And a white t-shirt that
00:38:10
also appears to have blood on it. A gray ski mask. And women's underwear. Two pairs. One is pink, size seven.
00:38:20
The other is white, size five. There's no blood on either pair or anything like that. And we know Chad is dating Velva
00:38:29
then, right? Like could be hers. So they go to Jeff's mom and she says the pink ones, the size seven ones, those are
00:38:35
Velva. She knows that. But the size five, no one in that house seems to claim those.
00:38:42
So then they go to Britney's mom and sure enough she tells them that the size five is the exact size that Britney
00:38:49
wore. So they've got Chad. Not quite. This search didn't happen until more than two weeks after the murder and
00:38:56
according to law enforcement it seemed like the underwear had been washed by the time that investigators got a hold
00:39:01
of them. So even though they do send them off for testing, nothing comes back that would definitively link Britney to
00:39:09
the underwear. Okay, did Jeff remember her underwear being white that morning when she got into bed? Like could could
00:39:15
he have ID'd them? >> This This was my question too, but in all of the documents we have there is no
00:39:20
record of anyone specifically asking Jeff this. So I don't know. And Madison tried reaching
00:39:27
out to him to ask about this along with a lot of other things, but as of this recording, we haven't heard back from
00:39:32
him. Okay, but there was other clothing like the shorts and the shirt. Like whose blood was on those?
00:39:37
>> I don't know. It sounds like the testing didn't come back with anything useful on
00:39:42
those either. Like either it was inconclusive or maybe it was Chad's, but like it didn't give them anything to go
00:39:48
on. What about all the stuff at the actual crime scene back at Jeff's house? Like
00:39:54
this was a violent scene. I I think that there would be something there. Like maybe under her
00:40:00
fingernails, just Well, >> the fingernails, so we asked about those. Apparently Britney's were too
00:40:05
short. So like nothing helpful there. But to your point, yeah, you think there would be something somewhere at that
00:40:11
scene especially because they think that this is a killer who apparently sticks around long enough to take a shower
00:40:16
before leaving. And that's one of the reasons that they actually test the shower including the drain.
00:40:22
But here's the catch. According to the sheriff, there's only one bathroom in that whole house. So, it's a really
00:40:29
shared space then. Even if they can place Chad in that bathroom, it kind of means nothing.
00:40:34
>> Well, except for the fact that it it kind of might if they can place him there because apparently Chad makes a
00:40:40
specific statement to authorities that I find really interesting. When they tell
00:40:45
Chad that they're in the process of testing evidence, he says something like, "My DNA will not be on that girl
00:40:52
or in that room." I honestly was expecting him to like preemptively explain why his DNA was
00:40:59
there. >> that's why I was like surprised, but he doesn't do that. In his original
00:41:03
statement, Chad says that he never went inside that house. Is he talking like just that morning or
00:41:09
ever? I I mean, I think he's just talking about the day of the murder, but like still. So,
00:41:14
assuming like that, I have to wonder like come from like the confidence from being so
00:41:19
meticulous about cleaning up after yourself or from being innocent? I mean, I know what a defense attorney would
00:41:25
argue because in the early days, most of what they find at the scene seems to belong to Britney or people living in
00:41:32
the house. Nothing that clearly identifies an outside attacker. Okay, but would Chad technically count as an
00:41:40
outside attacker if he'd been at the house at some point? I mean, I know Like I feel like I'm like dancing
00:41:46
around. So, I feel like I'm being a little cryptic here and that's because investigators were tight-lipped with us
00:41:50
surrounding DNA stuff. But from what I could gather, if they did have anything early on, it
00:41:56
was either inconclusive or too limited to point to like a sure suspect. So, in that early time frame, like the
00:42:06
investigation starts to slow way down. You're kidding me. Like they have so much.
00:42:14
>> No. And where is Velva in all this? Like this is her boyfriend they're accusing
00:42:19
of murder. You know, I don't I don't think she's saying a lot initially. I mean it sounds like they're really only
00:42:25
talking to her at the scene that day because like she was in school when this happened, right? And then after they're
00:42:31
like focused on Chad, it doesn't seem like they circle back around to her at least like in any real formal way. Maybe
00:42:37
she was still with him for a little bit and they thought that she would take his
00:42:40
side. I don't know. But she doesn't stay with him like long-term. Like I know that for sure.
00:42:47
And sometime after they break up, she does actually seek out police because she wants to talk to them because she
00:42:55
thinks that she has information that could help them. About 8 months after Britney McGlone's
00:43:05
murder, Velva asked to have a conversation with police about Chad. She tells them
00:43:12
there were things about that day that now looking back don't sit right with her.
00:43:18
She says that when Chad picked her up from school that afternoon, something was off. Like he seemed
00:43:23
nervous and there was this distinct smell that she remembers. It was her body wash, Softsoap Ultra
00:43:33
Rich Shea Butter. And this is chilling to her because to her knowledge, Chad hadn't showered at
00:43:39
her house that day. There would have been no reason to because by the way, I told you she hadn't even stayed at her
00:43:46
house the night before, remember? The two of them spent the night together at his aunt's house. She went straight to
00:43:52
school from there. And when he dropped her off, he didn't smell like that. So she asked him, like did you take a
00:43:58
shower? And he says yes. So then she asked the natural follow-up question, did you shower at my house?
00:44:05
And he just doesn't answer according to her. And sometimes silence speaks volumes. Now, they went to her house,
00:44:13
right? And the scene was unfolding. It was understandably distracting, right? So, maybe like you don't press in on it
00:44:19
then. And we know at least one deputy is flagging how strange Chad is acting. But
00:44:24
Velva says that he was acting odd the rest of the day, too. Like he didn't want to be alone afterward. And at one
00:44:29
point, she says that he even called his aunt to like come be with him. >> Which all of this seems like a little
00:44:35
bit dramatic when he acts like is saying everyone agrees that he barely even knew
00:44:41
Britney. >> Right? Yes. And then Velva gives investigators something that they have
00:44:45
been struggling to find. A possible motive outside of just a propensity for violence.
00:44:53
She says that Chad had complained before that Britney was allowed to stay overnight at Jeff's house, but he
00:45:00
wasn't. Wait, that's it? That's That's the motive. >> That's all she can come up with in the
00:45:05
last 8 months. And look, on its own, it's not a strong motive. It might not even be the motive. And quite frankly,
00:45:13
it doesn't even really make much sense to me because from everything we learned from Britney's mom, Patricia, sleeping
00:45:18
over after the night shift wasn't even something that Britney really ever did. Wait. If he
00:45:24
wasn't allowed to stay over, wouldn't that take away any like innocent explanation for his DNA to be
00:45:31
in that like some specific places of the house if they were to ever find it? If.
00:45:36
But whatever they do have, it's apparently not enough to make the people in charge think that they should move
00:45:43
forward. So, even after Velva gives her statement, nothing much changes. For years.
00:45:52
And the longer it sits, the more leads dry up. The colder and colder her case gets.
00:45:58
Until a new sheriff comes to town. Literally. Well, kind of literally. In 2021, there is a new sheriff, Kelly
00:46:07
Cole. But, he'd actually been there from the very beginning, working in law enforcement in the same county where
00:46:15
Britney was killed. He knew the details. He knew the mistakes. And now, he has the authority
00:46:21
to try and make it right. So, he does try. Alongside Captain Mike Chilson, they start going back through everything. Old
00:46:30
reports, old interviews, old evidence. And at the center of it all is the same name they had before, Chad Carr.
00:46:40
Because in the years since Britney's murder, Chad hasn't stayed out of trouble. He went on to serve 10 years
00:46:45
for sexually assaulting his ex-wife. And that matters because now investigators aren't just looking at a
00:46:52
suspect, they're looking at a pattern. A pattern that frustrates Britney's family
00:46:57
because Chad didn't even end up having to register as a sex offender after this. And I know we've been searching
00:47:04
for a strong why here when there might not really be one at all. So, maybe the why is just an appetite
00:47:11
for aggression. And not just with women. Court filings that we got our hands on alleged prior incidents of animal
00:47:18
cruelty. One involving a cat and another involving multiple stray cats and kittens.
00:47:24
As Sheriff Cole and Captain Chilson are taking their fresh look, it doesn't appear like they uncover some brand
00:47:30
spanking new evidence or anything. They just ultimately believe that there had been enough to move forward with an
00:47:36
arrest all along. So, the previous administrations just didn't even want to try then. Sounds
00:47:42
like it. So, over 15 years later, it is now 2022. Chad Carr is arrested for capital
00:47:51
murder. While describing that moment to us, Captain Chilson said that Chad didn't
00:47:56
even seem surprised, but rather it felt more like he was he believes maybe relieved. And without anything ever even
00:48:04
coming up about DNA, we were told that Chad was already changing his story about not being inside the house that
00:48:11
day. He preemptively starts indicating to a Texas Ranger that he'd been in and out of there all of the time. So, he was
00:48:18
thinking that they found something then? Maybe, I don't know. But he's booked into jail and for the
00:48:25
first time in years it feels like this case is moving forward. And for Britney's family it's
00:48:31
overwhelming. It's hope, maybe even the start of healing. But in cases like this, we know that an
00:48:37
arrest isn't the end. It's just like the next step. Especially in Texas because before a
00:48:43
felony case can go to trial, it has to go through a grand jury. Prosecutors have to lay out what they believe
00:48:49
happened and why Chad Carr should stand trial for Britney's murder. A decision takes just about the full 90 days that
00:48:57
they're given to decide and then the grand jury returns a no bill. Meaning there will be no
00:49:05
trial. How is that possible? I mean, this is to me like far from a weak case. >> Listen, I especially like you're not
00:49:14
convicting him. You're saying there should be a trial. I agree. >> According to Sheriff Cole and Captain
00:49:18
Chilton, they say the problem wasn't the case itself. It's that they say the grand
00:49:23
jury never heard all of their case. They say >> They say that key testimony including
00:49:29
their own was never presented and the process ended before the full picture could really be totally laid out. But it
00:49:37
like it doesn't matter now. The results are the same. Like >> And Chad just walks away a free man. And
00:49:43
Britney's family is left right back where they started. Okay, just to be clear, double jeopardy
00:49:49
it doesn't apply to grand juries, right? Like just actual trials and verdicts. So
00:49:55
>> So Chad Carr could still stand trial for this case if it ever went to a new grand
00:50:01
jury and they chose to indict, which is why like this no bill didn't stop detectives from working this case.
00:50:08
They're still reviewing evidence. They're still looking for a way forward. And when it comes to the forensic side
00:50:14
of things, the sheriff is careful with his words. He makes it clear a lot has already been tested and most
00:50:22
of what has come back makes sense. It's either Britney's or people living in the
00:50:27
house, but then he says something very interesting. He acknowledges that there is DNA they're still looking at.
00:50:37
DNA recovered from the shower that doesn't belong to someone who lived in that house. He won't go into more detail
00:50:45
than that, at least not yet, because in his words, there are still things they have to protect. Still avenues that
00:50:53
they're going down. Still evidence that could matter. Which means this isn't over. Not for investigators and
00:51:02
definitely not for Britney's family. The question now isn't if something else comes. I think it's when. We tried
00:51:11
reaching out to Chad Carr every which way we could. Phone numbers, Facebook, even sent a letter to where we think he
00:51:17
might be living now. But as of this recording, he hasn't responded to us. The number one question that I wanted to
00:51:25
ask him directly is did you murder Britney McGlone? Because to this day, Captain Chilson
00:51:32
says that he doesn't believe Chad Carr has ever explicitly denied murdering Britney. Oh. He said things like, you
00:51:39
won't find my DNA. I couldn't have done it. Mhm. But never a flat-out denial. Britney McGlone's family was a recipient
00:51:46
of a Season of justice grant. I don't know if you knew that in 2025. They put up a billboard just northeast
00:51:52
of Winnsboro in Sulphur Springs, Texas asking for tips. It's been up for a year, but it's
00:51:58
scheduled to come down any day now, which is why I wanted to make sure that this episode went up right on the
00:52:05
anniversary of Brittany's murder so that her family's plea for help could always
00:52:09
be heard, not just by the people of Wood County, but people all over the world. And sure, Brittany's loved ones would be
00:52:17
grateful for a confession or some shiny new piece of evidence, but the heavyweight lies with everything they've
00:52:23
had to live without. Because while investigators can go back over timelines, maybe retest DNA, they
00:52:31
don't get to go back. They don't get more time with Brittany, just more missed birthdays without her.
00:52:38
And in a place where everybody knows everybody, you would think the truth would be easy to find.
00:52:44
But sometimes the smaller the circle, the easier it is to keep things in. And for Brittany's family, that close
00:52:50
circle hasn't given them more answers. It has just left them on the outside still waiting.
00:52:58
So, if you know something, you could be someone to finally get through that circle.
00:53:03
You can stay anonymous by calling the Wood County Crime Stoppers at 903-760-1008
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or you can contact the Wood County Sheriff's Office directly at 903-763-2201. You can find all the source material for
00:53:21
this episode on our website crimejunkie.com. And you can follow us on Instagram at
00:53:26
crimejunkiepodcast. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode.