00:00:00
I believe that the evidence that we're going to find, the statements that we're getting from other people is going to
00:00:06
show that what you're telling us is not the truth. That you in fact did go over to house and assault her tonight. I hope
00:00:17
that you're not the type of person that goes out here and sits and thinks up horrible, deviant, terrible things to do
00:00:25
to people that prays on on innocent people out here and and and and just tries to torture them and do terrible
00:00:33
things to them. I would rather think that you're the person that made a simple mistake tonight and just
00:00:41
did something that was totally out of character and would not normally do. >> Hi, crime junkies. [music]
00:00:49
Even though I don't sound like it, I am your host, Ashley Flowers. >> And I'm Brit.
00:00:54
>> And even though I'm sick, I could not let that stop me today from telling this
00:00:58
story because it is an urgent warning for the people of Elizabeth Town, Kentucky. There is a man living among
00:01:05
you who committed one of the most violent, heinous crimes on a neighbor that he barely even knew for a reason no
00:01:12
one knows. And with her grandchild in the other room, he brutalized her [music] and then went home to make
00:01:19
supper and watch TV like nothing happened. And the only reason police knew where to go looking for [music] him
00:01:27
and the mountain of evidence that proved he committed this crime is because the victim wrote his name in her own blood
00:01:34
and somehow managed to survive so she could warn others about [music] this churchgoing father who masqueraded as a
00:01:41
good man. This story is going to be hard to hear, but no one else is talking [music] about it. So, I want to warn you
00:01:48
because some in the community have long wondered [music] whether this survivor is the only victim of Ernest Pine.
00:02:02
The neighborhoods that surround Rough River Lake in Kentucky are quiet [music] ones. It's over an hour away from any
00:02:09
big city and really gives those nothing bad happens here kind of vibes to those who don't know. But anyone who lived
00:02:16
there in August 2008 found out the hard way that evil can reside anywhere. And they learned that lesson at the expense
00:02:24
[music] of one woman. A woman who is still so scared of the man who masqueraded as normal that she asked us
00:02:31
not to use her real name. So I'll call her Linda. And the day that changed Linda's life forever was August 25th,
00:02:38
2008. That's when Linda was home babysitting her 22-month-old granddaughter who was asleep on the
00:02:44
couch. And Linda was next to her just watching TV when she got a knock at her door. It was a little after 7:00 p.m. at
00:02:51
the time. The sun was still out, [music] wouldn't be setting for like a couple of
00:02:54
more hours that time of year. And in a place like this where you know all your neighbors, Linda didn't even hesitate to
00:03:00
open her front door. And it [music] was for a neighbor, Ernest Pine. Now, the two exchanged friendly greetings, and
00:03:07
Ernest told Linda that he was there to talk to her husband about a boat dock that either he has or maybe one that he
00:03:13
was building, and he wanted her husband to work on it because he's an engineer. Now, Linda's husband wasn't home and she
00:03:19
told Ernest as much, said he would be back in a half an hour or so. And Ernest seemed happy with that and turned to
00:03:25
leave. And as he made that motion, signaling to Linda that their very normal, very safe interaction was over,
00:03:32
just when her guard was completely down and she went to close the door. That is the moment he pounced. Ernest shoved the
00:03:41
door open and forced his way inside. And before she can even process what is happening, Linda feels the butt of a gun
00:03:48
against her head and she hears Ernest [music] in her ear. He says, "Turn around. you are going to die. Every
00:03:57
nerve ending is on fire. And she believes him even before he pulls out the 6-in hunting knife and zip [music]
00:04:05
ties, which by the way, he had to have brought with him. This was planned. And in that moment, she knows that this
00:04:12
isn't a situation where she can just appease him. Give him what he wants and he'll leave. What he wants is to kill
00:04:18
her. And so, she fights. He's trying to get her to put her hands behind her back
00:04:22
and to tie them with the zip ties, but she won't let him. So, he hits her with the gun three times, but Linda keeps
00:04:29
fighting. And for a moment, she pulls her arms free and she reaches for the side door that leads to the garage,
00:04:35
hoping that she can get her German Shepherd that is in there. But right as she is about to open it, Ernest grabs
00:04:40
her again. He pulls her back and this is when he's able to tie her arms. And he tells her that if she tries that again,
00:04:48
he [music] will not just kill her, he will also kill her granddaughter, too. >> Now, Linda knows that that little girl
00:04:54
could wake up any second. So, she makes a request. She asks Ernest to move her to the small laundry utility space that
00:05:01
they have just off the kitchen so that whatever is about to happen to her won't be witnessed by her granddaughter if she
00:05:08
does wake up. and Ernest complies. He drags her to that room and she hears the lock click behind them. Now, Linda is
00:05:17
still not giving up in that moment. She manages to pull her arms out of the zip [music] ties, but Ernest is bigger than
00:05:23
her. He overpowers her. He cuts off all of her clothes and for the next 15 minutes that feel like a lifetime to
00:05:31
[music] her. Ernest sexually assaults her with objects that he finds nearby while Linda [music] tries to fight him
00:05:37
off. Now, at one point, Linda is able to push him to the ground. And that's when
00:05:41
he starts cutting her with his knife. And he tells her that she is not getting out of this room. She has to die because
00:05:49
she knows who he is. And that's when he pulls out his gun and aims it right at her head. And she hears it go off. But
00:05:56
somehow, by some miracle, the round just zips past her head and hits the wall. So, he fires again. But this time, it's
00:06:05
just the click of the trigger. She hears no shot. The gun jammed. But in that half second that Linda thought she'd
00:06:13
been saved, that's when Ernest grabs Linda by the head and slices her throat ear to ear. When Ernest lets her go, her
00:06:21
body just falls limp onto this pile of towels. And even though at that moment she is sure she's going to die, she
00:06:29
still won't give up. She is pressing the towels against her neck, trying to use them to like stop the bleeding as best
00:06:35
she can. And she uses every ounce of energy she has, every ounce of willpower that she has left to hold on as long as
00:06:43
possible and to hold as still as possible because she's trying to convince Ernest she's dead. Now it's
00:06:50
quiet, so she can hear him unlock the door, leave the room, but then he comes back and he just like stands over her
00:06:59
and all of a sudden, Linda feels this searing pain because he's stabbing her. And he does this over and over again.
00:07:05
Leaves, comes back and stabs her, leaves, comes back and stabs her. And all the while, somehow she is managing
00:07:12
to play dead. Finally, she hears a new sound. Ernest is running the sink in the utility room now. He thinks she is dead
00:07:21
on the floor and he is washing his knife and washing his hands above her before leaving the room one last time. Then she
00:07:28
hears the front door open and close. And even then she cannot bring herself to move. Like he could come back and if he
00:07:35
does, if he stabs her one more time, that might really be it for her. So, for another 10 long minutes, Linda just lies
00:07:45
there bleeding on this heap of towels, wondering if her utility room is going to be the last thing she ever sees. And
00:07:52
when she's sure that he's not coming back to clean up anymore, that's when Linda takes her finger and in her own
00:07:59
blood begins to scrawl Ernest's name on the wall. She wants people to know who did this to her. And when she finishes
00:08:07
the final E in his last name, Pine, somehow, maybe it's the adrenaline that's been rushing through her body or
00:08:14
just the drive to protect her granddaughter. At that moment, Linda pushes herself up off the floor and she
00:08:20
makes her way out of the utility room into the kitchen where she can see her granddaughter in the living room on the
00:08:27
couch, who thank God is still asleep and unharmed. So, she makes a beline for the
00:08:32
front door to lock it. And then next to the door is their security system. So she presses the panic button which
00:08:38
triggers a 911 call at 8:12 p.m. [music] ending her hour in hell with Earnest. Now she has never had to use this button
00:08:47
before. She doesn't even know how quickly police will respond or if they will at all. So she goes back to the
00:08:52
kitchen and starts making calls while she's still bleeding out. She calls her son-in-law who lives next door and then
00:08:58
she hangs up and calls her husband and begs him to come home. They both call 9112 to make sure they know to send an
00:09:04
ambulance, not just police. And Linda is somehow still conscious and talking when
00:09:09
first responders get there at 8:20 p.m. And as more and more people show up and she's loaded into an ambulance, she is
00:09:15
able to relay what happened to her and more importantly, who is responsible. So, as they airlift her to University
00:09:22
Hospital in Louisville for emergency surgery, the sheriff goes to the home of Ernest Pine, just a one-minute drive
00:09:29
away, positions outside his home, and calls his landline. When Ernest answers, the sheriff asks him to come out of his
00:09:37
home, but he doesn't say why. Now, it's dark now, around 900 p.m., and Ernest emerges from his front door, blinded by
00:09:45
a cruiser's spotlight. And as the sheriff arrests him and place him in the back of a car, a deputy notices that he
00:09:51
reeks of alcohol, but he is coherent enough to answer questions after he's read his Miranda rightites. They ask
00:09:57
him, "Is anyone else inside?" "No," he says. "My wife's at a dog show 2 hours away." "Were you at Linda's house
00:10:04
earlier tonight?" "No." But when the sheriff says, like, "So, if a neighbor told me that they had seen you on the
00:10:11
front porch earlier, then you're saying that neighbor would have been lying." And this is when Ernest starts
00:10:16
backtracking, saying, "Well, oh, actually, yeah, I did go over there to talk to her husband about a boat dock,
00:10:21
but Linda said that he wasn't home, so I just left." Okay, your name is written in her blood.
00:10:26
>> But he I don't think he's pieced that together yet. Like, I don't think he knows that she's the neighbor who saw
00:10:31
him. I mean, he knows what he did to Linda, so I think in his mind, she should not be alive. Linda is dead. so
00:10:38
calm, cool, and collected, he just answers their questions and acts like this is some big misunderstanding. The
00:10:44
sheriff asks Ernest if he has any weapons at [music] home. Ernest mentions like two or three long guns and the
00:10:50
sheriff's like, "Well, yeah, but what about a handgun?" Now, Ernest thinks for a while and he's like, "Well, oh yeah, I
00:10:55
do have this 22. It's in a toolbox in the basement." Perfect. So, he's taken to the station and somewhere between
00:11:04
when he's put in the back of the sheriff's car and when he gets to the station before the recorded interview
00:11:09
with him begins, investigators give him a heads up like, "Oh, by the way, it wasn't just a neighbor who saw you on
00:11:15
her porch. It was the victim herself who IDed [music] you. And, by the way, we're
00:11:20
getting a warrant to search your house for that gun and anything else we can find." And also, before their interview
00:11:26
starts with him, they're getting as much background on Ernest as they can. But honestly, the more they learn about this
00:11:33
guy, the more shocked they are by this crime and the more they have to be thanking their lucky stars that Linda
00:11:39
survived. Because without her, I don't know if they would have ever gotten to Ernest. Cuz 58-year-old Ernest does not
00:11:46
fit the profile of a violent offender that they might have gone looking for. Cuz he's been married to the same woman
00:11:52
for his whole adult life. They have two kids, grandkids, and he has no adult criminal record that they can find. You
00:12:00
know what else they can't find? Any connection to Linda. I mean, aside from living a minute away from her, they
00:12:06
don't seem to really know one another or have any history. I mean, like, Linda and her husband would wave to Ernest
00:12:12
when they would walk their dogs, but that was it. And even in that, like barely any words are spoken between
00:12:17
them, and Ernest was never alone with Linda or anything like that. So, by the time Kentucky State Police investigators
00:12:25
get in a room with Ernest, hours after his arrest, they are dying to get to the heart of their questions.
00:12:33
Why? And I'll warn you, what you're about to hear, the actual interview audio between Ernest and the detectives,
00:12:42
it is explicit and troubling. >> Okay. My name is Detective Jason Folks with the Kentucky State Police. The date
00:12:50
is August 26, 2008. Time is 1:35 hours Eastern Standard Time. Uh we're currently in the uh Breen Ridge County
00:13:00
uh Sheriff's Department. Um myself and Detective Matt Johnson with Texas State Police will be attempting to interview
00:13:08
Ernest Pine. >> Some cases fade from headlines. Some never made it there to begin with. I'm
00:13:18
Ashley Flowers and [music] on my podcast, The Deck, I tell you the stories of cold cases featured on
00:13:24
playing [music] cards distributed in prisons designed to spark new leads and bring long overdue justice. Because
00:13:31
these stories deserve to be heard, and the loved ones of these victims still deserve answers. Are you ready to be
00:13:38
dealt in? Listen to the deck now wherever you get your podcasts. Are you currently on the influence of
00:13:45
alcohol or any drugs? Anything like that? >> I could complain about one tonight, but
00:13:50
don't >> You're not not intoxicated or anything like that. We like to talk to you about
00:13:57
incidents that happened tonight. Why? Why you're here? Would you be willing to talk to us about that?
00:14:02
>> I'm not real sure what the incident is. >> Do you have any idea why why you're in
00:14:07
here? >> Neighbor was assaulted and said it was me. >> Uh-huh. And that's all I know.
00:14:14
>> Okay. >> Wasn't in the back of a car. >> Okay. >> Ever since then. >> All right. Uh who was this neighbor that
00:14:20
said this? >> She's cross street down to the house. >> Okay. And how did you um learn that she
00:14:29
said that you were assaulted her? >> When the sheriff called me on the phone and said, "Come over to your house."
00:14:34
>> Okay. Did he tell you what the accusation was? >> Assaulted. And she said, "I did."
00:14:41
>> Okay. Um, did you in fact uh assault tonight? Have you been over to house tonight?
00:14:49
>> I went over cuz I want to talk to her husband. >> What were you going to talk to him
00:14:53
about? >> He builds boat docks. >> And I just got recently got my permit. >> Mhm.
00:15:00
>> And the guy that said he was going to do it, he was going to put it in this weekend and he hadn't shown up yet.
00:15:07
So I wanted to talk to him about that. >> What did she tell you? And he wasn't home.
00:15:12
>> Okay. And then what happened next? >> I went back home. >> Okay. So you went back home. What did
00:15:18
you do when you went back home? >> Dinner. I was sitting down watching TV. >> You remember what you were watching?
00:15:26
>> No. >> Do you live at home by yourself? >> My wife. >> Okay. Is your wife at home tonight?
00:15:32
>> No, she's in Washington right now. >> How long have you lived at the residence
00:15:38
where you live now? about a year. >> I'm not sure though. We just at the hospital.
00:15:46
>> Do you know I mean you have any other acquaintance with >> we've talked to him two or three times.
00:15:53
>> Is that just casual conversation or >> walking down the street or we'd be walking down the street?
00:16:00
>> How you doing? >> Why do you think if she was assaulted would she name you as being the person
00:16:07
that assaulted her? That's the fact that I had been at her front door. Of >> course, the reason you're here is pretty
00:16:15
seriously. Matter of fact, she's at the University of Louisville Hospital right now as we
00:16:22
speak. And she's said told several people that you were the person that did this to her. However, you you're saying
00:16:35
that's not true. Is that correct? That's right. >> Uh why would she accuse you of doing
00:16:43
this if you didn't have anything to do with it? >> I said I I went through her door.
00:16:50
Maybe she thought I'd come back. I don't know. >> We know what's been told what's
00:16:56
happened. We'll find out what's happened. That's what we do. I mean, that's just our job. But we talk to
00:17:02
people all the time because it's kind of like it's not normal behavior is is what it is. It's got
00:17:10
there's always a reason that something's happened and we want to try to find out
00:17:14
why so we can prevent it from happening again. Here's here's the situation we're
00:17:21
in, Mr. Pine. We're going to search your residence and we're going to search residence for
00:17:29
evidence and we're going to find evidence in those places. Okay. The evidence I believe is going to show that you're
00:17:40
not telling us the truth right now. I believe that the evidence that we're going to find, the statements that we're
00:17:48
getting from other people is going to show that what you're telling us is not the truth. That you in fact did go over
00:17:56
to house and assault her tonight. I hope that you're not the type of person that
00:18:03
goes out here and sits and thinks up horrible, deviant, terrible things to do to people that prays on on innocent
00:18:11
[snorts] people out here and and and and just tries to torture them and do terrible things to them. I would rather
00:18:18
think that you're the person that made a simple mistake tonight and just did something that was totally out of
00:18:26
character and would not normally do. But the evidence is going to show that that
00:18:33
you were there and that you had something to do with this. And I need to know from you which type of person you
00:18:41
are. If you're that evil type of person that I'm thinking about on this end or if you just made a mistake tonight and
00:18:48
did something that was totally out of character that would never happen again. I said at the front door so I don't
00:18:54
think the evidence is so much. >> Okay. When we go in there and we find evidence in your home on your person
00:19:03
house that shows that you're not telling us the truth. How do you think a prosecutor and a judge is going to view
00:19:10
that? Are they going to say this is the type of person that made a mistake? Or they're going to say this is the type of
00:19:17
person that stood up and straight up lied to those detectives when he knew good and well that there was evidence
00:19:22
that showed he had done something like this. >> What do you think a prosecutor is going
00:19:28
to think? What do you think a jury is going to think >> about something like that?
00:19:33
>> He had a bunch of evidence. I guess that's that's the idea. So, if we So, if we laid out a bunch of evidence here for
00:19:39
you, then that might change your view on it. Is that what you're telling us? >> I don't know what evidence you can do,
00:19:47
>> Mr. B. Here's the situation. But, we're talking with you here cuz this is what
00:19:53
we do, but there's not a particular reason why we have to be talking to you. Now,
00:19:58
>> this is your opportunity to help yourself. The good thing here is that she hasn't died. Okay? You know, my
00:20:06
thing is too, if you sexually assaulted, you want to take me to a hospital, have
00:20:11
a blood test taken. >> Okay? >> Because if I don't take a pill, then ain't nothing going to happen.
00:20:18
Okay? >> Okay? >> So, if I don't have some of the Levitra in me, then there wouldn't have been a
00:20:23
sexual assault in the first place. >> Did I say you stuck your penis inside of her?
00:20:29
>> Okay. What's a sexual assault? Well, any type of assault that involves her any
00:20:34
type of assault that involves her sexually that involves her vagina. >> Okay. >> Her anus.
00:20:42
>> To me, a sexual assault would be a red. >> Okay. Well, then didn't say you didn't
00:20:47
sexually assault her. >> Well, it was sexual. >> Well, that's what she's saying.
00:20:50
>> Well, that's because we're we have a misunderstanding. >> All we've got is what she's saying.
00:20:55
Okay. Maybe you tell us something a little different than that. Well, it's not against her.
00:21:01
>> Not exactly. >> Okay. >> Cuz cuz I mean there's going to be evidence that's going to corroborate
00:21:05
what she said. >> If she's saying it was sexual assault, >> what was the sexual assault?
00:21:10
>> Well, she's saying that that you stuck some things up in her vagina and her anus,
00:21:17
some foreign objects. >> That may not be sexual assault. >> I mean, it could we could very well, if
00:21:23
that wasn't for sexual gratification, might not be sexual assault. But what we're saying is this is what she's
00:21:30
telling us. Okay? We're here to talk to you and get your side of the story. You're telling us
00:21:35
>> my side of the story. >> That's what you're saying though. But Mr. Mr. Cl, you don't understand that 95% of
00:21:43
your communication that your body gives off is all verbal. Okay. We've been doing this enough. I know you're very
00:21:49
nervous >> and you've been and you've been trained probably in the military about talking
00:21:53
about things like that, but actually an armed family. Okay. So, no. >> I'm I'm no different. I'm no different
00:22:00
than you are. Okay. Yeah. Y'all could be one day end up sitting in that same character. Okay. Doesn't that make me a
00:22:07
bad person? >> No. >> Am I going to want my kids thinking that the daddy's a bad person? Am I going to
00:22:15
want my wife thinking that their husband's a bad person? That's what it comes down to, Mr. Pine.
00:22:22
If you're not a bad person, we know that. But right now, all that we have is to take her side of the story. And
00:22:30
that's putting you as this terrible person. And that's all these people are going to hear. He's saying, "What me?
00:22:37
Didn't do it. Got no alibi. Prove no evidence. Prove it." And then only when you prove it and I'm backed into a
00:22:45
corner and I've got no other options, then I'll say I did it. How if you're an outside person, you see somebody do
00:22:52
that, what are you going to think? You're going to think that man is not sorry. That man's going to do it again.
00:22:58
And the only reason he finally fessed up to it was because he knew he had no other option.
00:23:05
And that's the only reason. And that person there deserves no sympathy. Deserves no help in the process. It
00:23:13
should be thrown out to the world for all we care. Get rid of them. That's one less person we need in this world.
00:23:19
That's what those people think. You know what? going to get on the stand and point you out and say he's the one that
00:23:25
did it. He did this to me. We're going to show pictures of what happened. We're going to listen to her story about what
00:23:31
happened. We're going to present the evidence that we're probably going to find here in a short while against you
00:23:38
and you're going to get up there and say, "I don't know what she's talking about. It wasn't me. I walked back home.
00:23:45
That that's it. I don't know what else to tell you other than it's my word against hers. Take that. I'll tell you
00:23:52
what's going to happen to you. A jury member is going to sit up there and listen to that and go. He's full of
00:23:58
crap. He's lying. He's lying just like he lied to those detectives right there. And if that's what you want to do, by
00:24:05
all means, that's fine. >> Challenge accepted. If Ernest Pine wasn't going to talk, the evidence would
00:24:12
do the talking for him. I mean, what more do they even need, though? Linda wrote his name in blood. I like if I
00:24:20
need to say one more time. Well, and she's telling any living soul she came in contact with before she was airlifted
00:24:25
off that it was him. But like you heard the man. He framed this as a he said she
00:24:30
said situation. And we unfortunately live in a world that requires a hell of a lot more than the word of a woman.
00:24:37
>> So buckle up. Let's go get that irrefutable proof that no one can argue with. Starting with Ernest own body. By
00:24:45
the time their interview with him ended, they had a warrant to search him and collect [music] his DNA. And while he
00:24:51
sat in that room talking to them, he had this cut on his thumb and scratches on his lower back and blood on his watch
00:25:00
and more smeared on one of his shoes, the shoes he is wearing. [music] And back at Ernest house, they find that 22
00:25:07
caliber handgun that he told them was in the toolbox in the basement. There is still blood on that and it is jammed
00:25:13
just like Linda said. It turns out that it jammed because Ernest loaded it with the wrong ammo. But the ammo that they
00:25:21
found matched the 22 caliber round still lodged in Linda's utility room wall. Ernest also had multiple hunting knives
00:25:28
[music] in his place, one of which had human blood still on it. And there were sandals with blood still on them, too,
00:25:35
that matched a tread of a bloody footprint found at the crime scene. And not just like in her house in general at
00:25:41
the entrance of the utility room where Linda was attacked. They collected zip ties that matched what Linda described
00:25:48
in her account along with green rope tied into a noose and even more smudges of blood around his house in her home.
00:25:56
They also took into evidence the multiple items that were used to sexually assault her. And make no
00:26:02
mistake, Ernest can sell his bull story all he wants that if he didn't use his penis, like does that really count as
00:26:09
assault? >> Yes, >> absolutely. And the detectives might have been trying to like play along to
00:26:14
get him to confess. But they agreed too because anyone anyone who hears what he did with those objects knows what a
00:26:23
[clears throat] sick and twisted monster Ernest actually [music] is. And the fact
00:26:26
that he couldn't use his limp doesn't change a thing for me. Now, Linda had to undergo an almost 19-hour surgery where
00:26:33
she needed about 17 pints of blood for a blood transfusion and hundreds of stitches. Her husband told us that
00:26:41
doctors said the knife missed her vital organs by millimeters. And I tell you all of this, Linda's stories, the
00:26:49
details of it, not to be overly graphic for entertainment or shock value. We asked Linda's permission to go into
00:26:56
detail and she allowed it because she and we want you to know exactly who Ernest Pine is. She and her family want
00:27:04
you to really understand what he is capable of and what kind of threat that he could be to other women out there.
00:27:10
Because at Ernest indictment hearing in 2008, the one where he gets slapped with
00:27:16
seven charges, Linda's family learns for the first time that she may not have been his first victim. Now, Linda and
00:27:25
her husband, they didn't go to that. She was still recovering. So, her husband's
00:27:29
dad [music] went in their place. And so, he was the one who first felt this big mix of emotions, thrilled as he came in
00:27:37
that this man would be facing real charges. And then horror when the strangest thing happened right before
00:27:44
the hearing started, something that you won't find in any of the case files or reporting. Linda's father-in-law
00:27:51
happened to sit right behind this guy at the hearing that he didn't know. And this guy turned around and asked him if
00:27:57
this was the courtroom that Ernest Pine was [music] going to be in. Linda's father-in-law said yes and went on to
00:28:03
explain Linda's case a little. And the next thing that came out of the other man's mouth set a chilling and ominous
00:28:09
tone for the next year to follow while they waited for a trial. According to Linda's family, the other man said that
00:28:16
he was there for his daughter-in-law, too, because he believed 16 years before Linda's attack, Ernest murdered her.
00:28:28
Linda's father-in-law was shocked to hear this. I mean, Ernest had never been convicted of any other crimes, let alone
00:28:36
murder. And the truth is, as far as I can tell, for all of the years before this, Ernest was never even a suspect in
00:28:42
this other woman's case. The only reason this other man learned about him and knew to show up to this hearing [music]
00:28:49
was because allegedly that man said a state trooper called him the night before this indictment hearing and
00:28:55
described how Linda was found. And when he heard the details, it was almost unbelievable. So, for police to call
00:29:02
this guy, I mean, that means they must be seeing the similarities, too. They're hard to miss. And police later said as
00:29:10
much to local press. And when our team dug into her case, I was shocked at what they found. So, this other woman was
00:29:17
29-year-old Elena Sanchez Hawkins. And 16 years before Linda's attack and just an hour away from Rough River Lake in
00:29:25
[music] Elizabeth Town, Kentucky, Elena was raising two little boys with her husband, Mike. The date was January 8th,
00:29:32
1992. And that day started off like any other. Elena woke up her 8-year-old for school,
00:29:38
made him breakfast, walked him out to the front porch to watch him get on his bus at around 7:00 a.m. Her husband,
00:29:43
Mike, was already at work, but he called like he did every morning to check in and make sure the morning was going
00:29:48
smoothly. And on that 7:00 a.m. call, everything was fine. But an hour or two later, Elena's sister told us that Mike
00:29:54
called his wife back because he had won some radio contest and gotten a free dinner. He was like excited about it,
00:29:59
wanted to tell her about it, but when he called, the phone was just ringing and ringing and ringing with no answer,
00:30:05
which was odd. I mean, Elena worked mostly nights at a gas station, so she could be home with their three-year-old
00:30:10
son during the day, so she usually was there to pick up. So, he tried calling [music] back again, and this time the
00:30:18
call was picked up, but it wasn't Elena on the other end. It was his three-year-old's voice that he heard.
00:30:23
And Mike's like, "Okay, hey, put mom on the phone." And what his son said next is still burned into my [music] brain.
00:30:30
Mama's bleeding. >> I don't think Mike's brain tried to make excuses. He didn't ask more questions.
00:30:36
He just immediately left work and raced home to a scene that I am sure continued
00:30:42
to haunt him throughout his life. Elena was lying half on the couch covered in blood with her hands tied behind her
00:30:50
back and her throat was slit from ear to ear. and there was truly blood everywhere. Now, thankfully, their son
00:30:59
had been left physically unharmed, so Mike scooped him up and called 911. The crime in 92 Elizabeth Town was just as
00:31:08
shocking as Linda's would eventually be in Rough River Lake in 2008. It didn't matter that this was a bigger city. This
00:31:14
just didn't happen here, [music] and police were quickly stumped by the crime. Now, it seemed like Elena knew
00:31:20
her killer because there was no forced entry. And even though this was a pretty rural neighborhood where people didn't
00:31:25
always lock their doors, a family member told us that Elena usually did, especially when Mike was gone, they also
00:31:32
remembered there being glass in the door and there was definitely a window next to the door. So Elena would have been
00:31:36
able to see whoever was on the other side, >> right? It's not like it was just like a
00:31:39
solid wall and she was blindly opening it, >> right? And also nothing seemed to be
00:31:45
taken from the house. So killing Elena seemed to be the only goal. But there was no one in Elena's life who raised
00:31:52
suspicions. I mean, obviously, they looked at Mike because, as we know, they always check the husband, but he had a
00:31:57
salad alibi. He was at work, so he was cleared pretty quickly. And police didn't believe that he had anything to
00:32:03
do with her death. Not that he just didn't do it. He didn't arrange it. Nothing.
00:32:07
>> And as they made their way through others close to the family, no suspects emerged, or at least none that have ever
00:32:12
been reported on or that the family knew about. Because the case is still unsolved, all of our records requests
00:32:18
and interview requests were denied by law enforcement. >> And did her son see anything?
00:32:23
>> Mike's brother told us that at some point in the morning, the son had pulled up a chair in the kitchen to get a snack
00:32:29
out of the fridge or like off the counter or something. And in that moment, the little boy remembered seeing
00:32:34
a man in the house. Now, we weren't able to talk to Elena's younger son, so exactly what he saw the man doing, if he
00:32:41
even remembers is unclear. But it must have been something that spooked him because one of Mike's brothers told us
00:32:46
that eventually he went into a bedroom and hid inside a toy box. >> But you'd think if it was someone that
00:32:52
the family knew even at three, he might have been able to like recognize them or
00:32:57
remember who they were. >> Yeah. I mean like my daughter is coming out of the three stage. I think she
00:33:01
could, but like also our brains are capable of shielding a lot to like protect us from trauma. So
00:33:07
>> who knows at that young of an age? What about any neighbors around? I mean, this is happening in the morning on a
00:33:15
weekday. People are driving to work, out and about. Like, there's people around.
00:33:19
>> This crime was so bold. According to a local paper called the News Enterprise,
00:33:24
investigators believed that she died sometime between 7 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. And I mean, we looked up her address,
00:33:30
and from what we could tell, it was kind of a rural area outside of town. The houses were pretty spread apart. So
00:33:37
again, bold for time of day, like people could just come by, mailman, whatever. But I don't think I do think that like
00:33:44
this attacker was protected in the fact that like there was not like a next door
00:33:47
neighbor the way there are in like a lot of suburbs that you see. >> But even though the neighbors were
00:33:51
spread apart, like police talked to as many people as they could. They even set up a roadblock to question anyone who
00:33:57
drove past Elena's house in the morning on their way to work. And from all of that, they did find someone who came
00:34:03
forward saying that they saw a black Nissan Dassen pickup truck parked in Elena's driveway. Now, they didn't see a
00:34:10
person or anything, but the truck is important because as far as we can tell, police were never able to connect anyone
00:34:15
in her circle or beyond to that kind of car. So, eventually, it was considered that this could be everyone's nightmare
00:34:25
scenario. just this random roaming psychopath who targeted Elena for who [snorts] knows what reason? Was it just
00:34:34
that day that he saw her? Had he been watching her? Now, a few of her loved ones told us that in the weeks leading
00:34:40
up to her murder, Elena did mention this weird guy that was watching her during her night shifts at the gas station
00:34:46
[music] she worked at nearby. During her shifts, Elena sat in one of those like glass boxes in the middle. People could
00:34:52
like drive up to her if they wanted to buy something. And this weird guy would drive by, but he would never talk to her
00:34:59
or anything like that. He would just stare at her. Now, everyone we talked to said Elena wasn't somebody who got
00:35:05
scared easily, and she could stand up for herself. But this guy freaked her out enough that even though the door to
00:35:12
her box was locked, she would call Mike and his brothers and [music] ask them to
00:35:16
come down when this guy showed up. >> But every single time they got to the gas station, the guy was gone. Now, as
00:35:22
far as everyone remembers now, Elena never described this guy or what he was driving. And it doesn't seem like police
00:35:29
were ever able to track this guy down either. But if the gas station guy somehow figured out where she lived and
00:35:35
showed up at her house, like you said, like she could see out in front of the door before she opened it, I doubt she
00:35:41
would have opened the door for someone that was already creeping her out. >> I don't think so. So, circling this back
00:35:46
to Linda, what are all the similarities and what like if anything is different in these two situations?
00:35:55
>> Okay, so first of all, everyone we talked to who has seen both Elena and Linda told us that they looked a lot
00:36:01
alike. Both women were dark-haired, tan, short, like around 5t tall. Both women were bound. Both had their throats cut.
00:36:10
>> Now, as far as we know, Elena wasn't tied using zip ties. One of Mike's brothers remembers that it was a cord
00:36:16
from the blinds. So, her attacker seems a little less prepared than Ernest was with Linda 16 years later. And I can't
00:36:23
tell you if the same type of weapon was used because just like Ernest took the knife with him, Elena's attacker did the
00:36:29
same thing. Also, they were each attacked in their home. A child was present in each case, which might be a
00:36:36
coincidence, but we know in Linda's case that Ernest used her granddaughter as leverage to make her comply. Could
00:36:43
Elena's killer have done the same thing? Like I wonder if a child in the home was
00:36:48
something they were looking for rather than just like >> right like knowing they could use that
00:36:52
kind of against their victim >> rather than just like something that happened to be there. Right now we know
00:36:58
that Linda was sexually assaulted, >> but it's not totally clear if Elena was. I mean, according to what KSP had told
00:37:04
other reporters in the past she was, but Elena's brother told us something totally different. He said that he
00:37:10
talked to someone in the coroner's office who told him that based on what she read in the report, she didn't think
00:37:16
Elena was sexually assaulted. Well, whose definition are we using here, too? Right? Cuz you also have Ernest over
00:37:24
here saying that what he did to Linda wasn't sexual assault, and we know that's total BS,
00:37:30
>> right? And I've seen before people even like in an official capacity interpret
00:37:34
like a lack of semen as a sign. So yes, if she too was assaulted with an object,
00:37:39
my question would be was there trauma left behind? >> Well, I feel like the one thing that
00:37:42
seems obvious is that there for sure was no semen or we'd be talking about like DNA all these years later, right? That
00:37:48
might actually be wrong actually, which I know sounds bananas, but without police cooperation, I can't like really
00:37:55
tell 30 years later. So like I said, um there is old reporting that has KSP saying that she was assaulted and they
00:38:03
have DNA they said in that same study. Okay. They don't explicitly say that it was from the sexual assault kit. And in
00:38:09
talking with Elena's family so many years later, like different people remember different things.
00:38:13
>> One person remembered that the DNA at the crime scene was semen. Another said
00:38:18
that they thought it was maybe like skin from underneath Elena's fingernails. Whatever they had, whatever they were
00:38:24
able to do with that in the early '90s, it didn't go anywhere. And so Elena's case went cold quickly. Now, in 2004,
00:38:33
Elena's husband, Mike, ended up passing away from surgery complications. And that same year, police told the
00:38:40
family that they had stopped testing the DNA they had because they didn't want to
00:38:44
destroy the little bit they had left. [music] So, Elena's loved ones, including her kids, who now have lost
00:38:51
both parents so young, they were just left hoping that someday, somehow, they would get the answers that they've been
00:38:58
waiting so long for. So four years after that when they get word about Linda's attack and Earnest, they get this surge
00:39:07
of hope. Maybe this is it. [music] And this is when I told you that police came out in the press and even they said
00:39:13
that they saw the same similarities. This is why Elena's father-in-law went to Ernest indictment hearing where he
00:39:20
met Linda's father-in-law and he probably planned to attend the trial. But a trial never [music] happened. In
00:39:29
the 10 months after the attack on Linda, Ernest ends up seeing the writing on the
00:39:35
wall. And just like detectives, Propes and Johnson said he would do, Ernest waited till he was backed into a corner
00:39:43
before he finally admitted what he'd done. On June 17th, 2009, about 10 months after Linda was attacked, Ernest
00:39:51
pleads guilty. Now, the judge gives him sentences for all of those things, but allows him to serve them concurrently
00:40:00
instead [music] of consecutively. So, that means he isn't stacking time for each count back to back. He gets to
00:40:06
serve one term, the longest one, 20 years. You know, it never ceases to amaze me how you get a lighter sentence
00:40:17
for attempted murder, like just trying to murder somebody >> because you like didn't do it right.
00:40:22
Like, >> right. >> Like, you told her she was going to die that day. You kept coming back to the
00:40:26
room and stabbing her to make sure she was dead. >> It was kind of multiple attempted
00:40:31
murders of one person. >> And just because by some miracle she survived, you get out of prison to maybe
00:40:38
do this again to somebody. Like what are we? >> It doesn't make any sense. What are we
00:40:42
doing here? And it is the strangest thing to me because once he goes away for his attack on Linda, all of the talk
00:40:50
about the similarities to Elena's case just stops. And to date, no official connection between Ernest and Elena has
00:40:58
ever been made. Wait, so it wasn't his DNA? >> I didn't say that. I don't know if it
00:41:04
was because police wouldn't talk to us. And even the family has never like Elena's family has never been able to
00:41:11
get a straight answer about this either. They have asked and they just keep getting the same party line that they
00:41:16
have gotten for years. [music] This case is unsolved and open and investigators are waiting for technology to move
00:41:23
forward before they can retest that DNA. I feel like if they actually had a DNA profile to compare, they would at least
00:41:30
come out and confirm it's not him, right? You would think, but at least one family member told us that they remember
00:41:36
police [music] testing the DNA they had against a few people back in the day. Now, they don't know who was tested or
00:41:41
cleared from that, and we couldn't confirm that. So, I don't know. Like, there is something so confusing
00:41:48
>> about the DNA stuff in Elena's case to me. Like, something does not feel right.
00:41:52
>> Well, I kind of wonder if maybe they're waiting till closer to the time that Ernest is set to be released. Like that
00:41:58
gives them kind of a ton of time to make a really solid case against him if they
00:42:03
think it's him. Like he's safely behind bars. He can't hurt anybody else. They have this like chance to really develop.
00:42:09
>> He was safely behind bars. >> Uh this is that's past tense. >> This is what I'm saying about this
00:42:16
episode. This is how I got put on this case. Ernest got an early release this summer.
00:42:24
>> What? Early release this summer. He's out. On August 19th, 2025, Ernest Pine was released on parole after serving
00:42:33
only 17 of his 20ear sentence for Linda's attack. >> Yeah, I was trying to do the math. I'm
00:42:39
not good at it. How is that even possible? How does a guy like this who did something like that get out? Like to
00:42:48
me, you already got a gift by getting to serve them, >> right? Like just Right. Exactly. He's
00:42:52
already getting kind of a [laughter] pass. Uh-huh. So, he got to serve them concurrently. And under Kucky's violent
00:42:59
offender law, you can be considered for parole after you serve 85% of your sentence. In this case, 20-year
00:43:06
sentence, that's about 17 years. Now, our sources said that Ernest spent a lot of time like leading Bible study and
00:43:14
Sunday school while he was in prison, too, which they believe the parole board like like
00:43:22
>> Yeah. when they approved his release. >> Ashley, I'm sorry. I don't care how many
00:43:29
Bible studies he led. You don't get to torture a woman and then shave literal years off your prison time just because
00:43:38
you said your prayers. Amen. And by the way, it's like sure, forgiveness, second
00:43:46
chances, whatever. But I have a hard time believing that Ernest like found God in prison because he knew the guy's
00:43:53
number before he went away. A source close to Ernest's own family who asked to stay anonymous told us that at some
00:43:59
point after Ernest moved to Elizabeth Town, like way back in 1986, we're talking even before Elena's case, he and
00:44:06
his wife joined the praise band at this mega church. a mega church that, oh, by the way, is located in Elizabeth Town,
00:44:14
just two and a half miles away from the gas station where Elena worked, according to her brother-in-law.
00:44:19
>> Wait, so Ernest for sure has a connection to the area where Elena lived back in '92.
00:44:25
>> Yeah, he we learned that he lived in the same town as Elena when she was murdered
00:44:29
in 1992, not just before, in 1992. >> And the potential ties don't stop there. So, when we found out that Ernest lived
00:44:42
in Elizabeth Town in 1992, right away we began to wonder, did he know Elena? >> Yeah,
00:44:49
>> it doesn't seem like it or at least it does not seem like she knew him. But then we talked to that source who was
00:44:56
close to Ernest family and they had a few theories on how Ernest and Elena's paths could have crossed. So Ernest was
00:45:02
in the army which is what brought him to Kentucky. He was actually stationed at Fort Knox before he retired and then he
00:45:08
moved into a house only about 5 miles away from Elena's. And our source told us that after Ernest retired, he was
00:45:14
having a really hard time finding a job. So for a while he delivered pizzas for Domino's. And of course like we don't
00:45:21
know where he delivered pizzas or anything like that. I do imagine that you called Domino's and were like, "Hi,
00:45:26
[laughter] could I get could I?" >> They cannot confirm. >> But our the source that we talked to
00:45:31
kind of has always wondered if he could have maybe delivered a pizza to the Hawkins house or in their neighborhood.
00:45:36
Like that's a bit of a stretch to me. >> This is less so though. The source also
00:45:42
said that when Ernest started working at a nearby break factory, he would work the night shift and then get off early
00:45:49
in the morning. And remember when he was arrested after Linda's assault, a deputy
00:45:53
said that he smelled alcohol on his breath in the patrol car. Right. >> Yeah. >> Well, our source went on to claim that
00:45:59
Ernest had a drinking problem that he hid from his family. So, he would usually drink during the day after his
00:46:06
shift ended while they were all out of the house. But Elizabeth Town was a dry town at the time. So, you could only buy
00:46:12
alcohol in Boston, Kentucky, which was like the next town over. And if what our source told us is true, which we have
00:46:20
not been able to confirm yet, to get to Boston from the break factory or his house, Ernest would have had to have
00:46:27
drove right past Elena's house. And that probably would have been right around the time that she was putting her son on
00:46:34
[music] the bus to school in the morning. >> And remember that truck that someone saw
00:46:40
in her driveway the day she died, >> the black Datson? Well, our source told us that Ernest had bought his daughter a
00:46:47
tan or beige Chevy S10 sometime before that. Now, if you look at the photos, an S10 looks really similar to a Datson.
00:46:56
>> Yeah, but I don't know if you could confuse those colors though, right? >> Big difference. But I did look it up and
00:47:03
sunrise that day would have been at around 8:00 a.m. So if Elena is attacked sometime like between 7 and 10, 7:30 and
00:47:11
10:00, it may have still been dark when that witness spotted the truck. I mean, yeah, it seems worth tracking down the
00:47:19
truck at least just to like get eyes on it like Yeah. I don't know if police ever like did because when a reporter
00:47:28
looked into this and shared our sources information with current detectives, we were told that they still have not
00:47:33
followed up. Wouldn't they have talked to his family though at some point during the investigation into Linda's
00:47:38
case? They tried. So in our records request, there was one audio file from when detectives went to the home of
00:47:48
Ernest daughter and her husband. They didn't want to talk then and they basically direct police to earnest
00:47:54
lawyer, some guy named Roger and his associates because it sounds like when they tried to answer questions before
00:48:01
people in their family were not happy with them. Take a listen. >> I guess you all sound okay. What we want
00:48:09
to do are you're is that right? And Ernest is your dad? >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. What we want to do is
00:48:16
just sit down and talk to you and your mom uh for a little while. We absolutely if Roger or or if y'all have an attorney
00:48:24
representing you all, >> we'll do we can do that if basically was you know, you know what what we what I
00:48:32
told you the other morning and everything you were coming to and and hopefully we were wanting to be able to
00:48:37
talk and maybe answer a few more of your questions and just find out basically we
00:48:42
we just don't know why this has really happened and uh I mean that's what we're trying to find out. We don't we don't
00:48:47
have a clue why. Uh, I mean, we know the who, what, when, where. We just don't know why. And, uh, and, uh, you know, we
00:48:56
just basically just wanted to find out, you know, if your dad had any mental uh issues in the past or is on any
00:49:02
medications or has a history of alcoholism or has been abusive in the past or anything like just small stuff
00:49:08
like that with your family. Just basically you and your mom, point to answer. Um, and that's really about all
00:49:14
it was. >> Okay. Well, since I have basically gotten my head decapitated from my
00:49:22
um let me just get back in contact and then I guess >> call you all back and let you know.
00:49:28
>> As far as I can tell, Ernest daughter did not call them back. And actually, out of all of our attempts to reach his
00:49:35
children or ex-wife or him directly so he could respond to allegations, this was the only response we got, a
00:49:43
voicemail. Yes, I'm calling on behalf of the letter you sent to Ernie Pine. Um, your
00:49:49
information is inaccurate. He is not interested in speaking of you with either of you on anything. And please
00:49:55
stop harassing him. Thank you. Who was that? We don't know. She didn't say. Maybe someone close to him could be a
00:50:05
family member. I mean, we were told that Ernest's family stood by him after Linda's attack. Stood by him? How? I
00:50:13
mean, like, they might not even believe that he did it. >> How can you like make yourself believe
00:50:20
that? There's a literal mountain of evidence in this case. >> I know. I like I get how hard it would
00:50:27
be to [music] accept that your husband or your dad did something that heinous, >> but there's also a bit of a line for me
00:50:34
like denial, trauma. Families of predators can be victims, too. Do not get me wrong. But when you help shield
00:50:41
them from accountability, that is when I think you're crossing over. >> What do you mean?
00:50:47
>> Well, so Linda's attack left her with serious medical debt. Before she was even discharged, they had a quarter of a
00:50:55
million dollar lean on their house and it took her husband 10 years to pay that off. And like, I just want to take a
00:51:01
second because this is the side of these cases that does not get talked about enough in my opinion. survivors don't
00:51:07
just have their physical well-being taken from them and their emotional and mental health totally wrecked, their
00:51:13
safety taken away. Like on top of all of that, it's like the logistics of it. >> They often have to pay literal money for
00:51:21
what their attacker did with money they often don't have. >> A crime like this seriously just like
00:51:28
rips apart every aspect of your life. Yeah, but I think about in this case like can't they sue Ernest? like he had
00:51:36
money, right? Yeah. We were told by our source that he did, but Linda's husband told us that none of that money has gone
00:51:43
to her. So, this is what played out. So, Linda had to wait for the criminal trial
00:51:47
to end or like all of that before they could actually file a civil suit, >> right?
00:51:51
>> And her husband told us that during that time, Ernest and his wife got divorced
00:51:56
and his assets were all transferred to her. So, from what he can tell, all Ernest has now to his name is his
00:52:02
pension, which I guess is protected, which I didn't know that it's how it worked, but that's still his. And
00:52:07
Linda's husband told us that he did try to fight for that money. Money that Linda deserves, but they just couldn't
00:52:13
keep up the fight because lawyers cost too much. >> It Yeah, you need money to get the
00:52:18
money. >> Yeah. Now, on the one hand, what I'll say is like in any other scenario like
00:52:23
this where say the wife and family are blindsided, it would be like the wife's whole life savings up in smoke too. And
00:52:31
I'm not saying the per's family has to be left destitute if they did not know anything or did not participate like but
00:52:37
neither should Linda, right? It like you said earlier, there are lots of victims
00:52:41
in this case. >> Yeah. And I haven't seen anything in the source material to suggest that they got
00:52:46
a dime to help. So, it feels to me like everyone on Ernest's side chose to support Ernest and protect themselves.
00:52:56
And as cruel as the financial burden has been on Linda and her family, the emotional toll is seriously just as
00:53:03
real. Linda lives with physical and emotional challenges from the trauma. Like I said, she is now back in therapy
00:53:11
because Ernest has been released and it has brought all of this back up for her.
00:53:15
I mean, ever since that night, 2008, Linda has never been left alone. She is always with her husband or a trusted
00:53:23
friend or family member. And her husband has faced his own challenges, too. He had a stroke in 2013, and his doctors
00:53:29
told him that all of this stress and worry that he carries could have been a factor. But you know what? He told us
00:53:35
that he loves Linda. They have been married for 47 years now, and [music] he would do anything to protect her and
00:53:42
their family. When Linda's husband went to one of Ernest hearings after his [music] parole, he said that in his
00:53:48
opinion, Ernest didn't even show any remorse even after all these years. And he has never made [music] any kind of
00:53:57
formal apology to Linda or her family. One of those hearings was about a no contact stayaway order, which meant that
00:54:05
Ernest couldn't be anywhere near Linda or her granddaughter for like 10 years. But Linda's husband told us that when
00:54:11
the judge asked him if he understood that, he didn't even answer. So the judge had to ask him again, like, "Do
00:54:18
you understand that?" And he says like, "Yeah, I get it." Which to Linda's family felt like he was not taking it
00:54:27
seriously. And so now that neighbor who left Linda for dead lives just about an hour away from her even though he is 75
00:54:36
years old now we know what he's capable of. And there is so much anger and fear that you can feel from everyone who has
00:54:44
been affected by this case. And Elena's family lives with that same anger and fear because her killer, whoever he is,
00:54:52
is still out there somewhere. Elena didn't get the chance to name her killer. And her family told us the
00:54:58
little that's out there about her doesn't even begin to paint a picture of who she was. So, I do want to share a
00:55:05
few of their memories. They said Elena never met a stranger. Like, she loved people and she loved to sing. She was
00:55:15
her son's best friend and the sister everyone wishes they had. And girl was 411, but she may as well have been like
00:55:22
8t tall. Nothing scared her. She never backed down from a fight to protect the people she loved. And Elena's son told
00:55:29
us that he has never given up on getting justice for his mom. And until the day he dies, he is going to keep looking for
00:55:36
her killer. Maybe Elena's killer thinks he'll never be caught. But if someone out there listening knows something that
00:55:42
can change that, you need to come forward now. You can call Kentucky State Police Post4 or email us tipsaudio.com
00:55:50
and we'll forward it on. We'll put KSP post4 information and our tips email in the show notes. And if you or someone
00:55:57
you know has experienced sexual violence, you [music] can contact Rain's National Sexual Abuse Hotline. We'll
00:56:02
have their number and other resources for survivors of sexual assault [music] in our show notes. You can find all the
00:56:08
source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkie.com. And if you want to listen to more
00:56:13
episodes like this and all of our episodes completely adree, be sure to join our fan club. You get early [music]
00:56:18
access to new episodes every week and bonus content every month. And bonus content, by the way, legit episodes. And
00:56:24
you can follow us on Instagram at CrimeJunky Podcast. [music] We'll be back next week with a brand new episode.
00:56:29
And hopefully I'll be feeling better. [laughter]