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hi crime junkies I'm your host Ashley flowers and I know you're probably not used to seeing my face I always get told
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it's a little trippy for people the first time they see the disembodied voice that they know so well actually
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come out of a real life human and that's because I don't always make video podcasts but when I do you know it's
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going to be good like today now millions of you already listen to my weekly True
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Crime podcast crime junkie which is part of my company audio cheuck with a network of a dozen other shows we are
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your One-Stop shop for the most trusted responsible compelling mission-driven True Crime content and one of those
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podcasts is my other weekly show the deck the deck is super special to me it was inspired by my time serving on the
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board of my local Crim Stoppers I came across this deck of playing cards with cold cases on them and I found out that
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this was actually an initiative that law enforcement agencies across the country
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were utilizing to try and breathe new life into cold cases they would pass these out prisons and hope that they
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would get in the hands of the right people who might have information so I took that concept and kind of ran with
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it every week we now tell you the stories behind the cards hoping that information reaches the right ears now
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and you know now maybe the right eyes now the reason I'm doing this episode now as a video is because I mean there's
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something about this week's card that I couldn't let go of I mean I needed to know that I did everything in my power
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to make sure as many people as possible heard this story because in the 6 and 1 half years that I've been telling victim
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stories and the lifetime that I've been consuming them few stories have haunted me the way that this one has and it's
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one of those cases that have been living in my head like on repeat one where the
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killer was so bold so confident that police would never catch him that he taunted them and for nearly 30 years
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he's been able to get away with it but I think that's coming to an end because even though it seems like he tried to do
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everything he could to erase himself from the crime scene in the victim's life it looks like he didn't cover all
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of his tracks and he may have left something behind that could finally give him away our card this week is Dana
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Chisum the jack of diamonds from Washington DC I'm Ashley flowers and this is the deck
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[Music] on Monday February 27th 1995 over 400 miles away from DC in Rock Hill South
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Carolina the landline at the Chisum residence rang out in the middle of the night it woke up John Johny and Joe Gary
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from a deep sleep and in his half awake state Johnny clocked the time close to 1:30 a.m. and from where they lived in
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the South everyone knew you didn't dare make a call past supper time unless of course it was an emergency groggy and
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days Joe Gary was the one to answer the phone but the person on the other end spoke loud enough for Johnny to hear and
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it was a man introducing himself as detective Lewis Douglas with the Metropolitan Police Department in
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Washington DC and to their utter shock the detective said that their 25-year-old daughter Dana was in jail
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the detective explained that they had this sting operation at the Omni Hotel there in DC and Dana was one of the
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women that they' arrested that night for charges related to sex work now that didn't sound like their daughter at all
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I mean Dana had an office job in the city the only time she'd ever really been in trouble was with her parents
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right after high school I mean she started hanging out with the wrong crowd she got mixed up in drugs for a minute
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but that was years in the past and at no time had there ever been any arrests for
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sex work but more than what this detective was saying Johnny said that the way that this guy talked his
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attitude his energy were just off here's retired detective Jim trainum he remembers the details of Dana's case
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well from his time reviewing cold cases at MPD Mr Chisum talked about how he kind of felt like the phone call itself
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was odd because the person who was identifying himself as Douglas was seemed to be excited uh he was saying he
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was going to get a promotion the man on the other end of the phone carried on saying that Dana
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was going to be arranged she should be out at some point during the day and then he said something like don't worry
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she's fine just call in the morning it's late and although the tone of the conversation was a bit bizarre this guy
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did leave the chisms a phone number that they could call later to check in which
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was the one thing that made this call seem more legit so all they could do at that point was wait around worrying
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about their daughter until they hopefully heard from her later that day but when the we hours of the morning
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turned into more reasonable business hours and there was still no word from Dana Johnny decided to give that number
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a call and I know what you're thinking it was fake that's what I expected but it wasn't the line rang and it was in
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fact MPD but when Johnny asked for detective Douglas and then detective Douglas got on the phone his response
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instantly made Johnny's heart sink well the real detective Douglas was actually very puzzled about what was going on of
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course he didn't call the Family he said I have no idea what you're talking about
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a detective in the second district wouldn't be one who would be doing a prostitution sting anyway that would be
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a part of another totally different unit so he would not be somebody who would have participated in something like this
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it was all a lie now when he learned about the previous call the real detective Douglas asked
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where Dana worked but Johnny was hesitant to say I mean if this was all some sick prank then he didn't want to
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get his daughter into any trouble at the Hudson Institute this political Think Tank where she was a secretary Johnny
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recalled detective Douglas saying something along the lines of but don't you want to find your daughter which
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felt weird to Johnny because he didn't think he'd used any language that implied he was necessarily looking for
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her just that he was worried about Dana being detained but desperate Johnny ended up giving Douglas his daughter's
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work address anyway now there was no missing person's report filed or case opened on Dana at the time but detective
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Douglas let Johnny know that he would look into it and call him back he didn't know what was going on so that's when he
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decided that he would just go by the house where she lived and check on her see what's happening when he got there
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and there was no answer that's when he left his card Douglas never did call Johnny back to let him know that he
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didn't have any luck making contact with Dana he might have just been waiting to
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hear something back from her or may have even assumed this was all a bunch of nothing I mean after all the house he
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went to was in a very nice neighborhood the kind of neighborhood where it's easy
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to believe that bad things don't happen we spoke to retired MPD Captain Michael ferish and here's what he said argal
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terce was more of upscale they call that the Gold Coast in fact the address we were at if you went through the backyard
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and hopped a big old fence you were on an estate owned by the Rockefeller family so I guess you're kind of getting
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the idea what kind of neighborhood it was what Captain ferish referred to there the Gold Coast is the designated
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name for an enclave in the northwest corner of DC for black professionals and intellectuals according to the New York
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Times and fish used to patrol that area so he can speak to the crime rates or rather lack thereof now remember this
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was 1995 cell phones weren't at all common yet so when Johnny never heard back from detective Douglas he decided
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that he would just call Dana's employer himself to try and find out what was going on maybe this was all some huge
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misunderstanding and she was at the office working as she should be on a Monday but a call to her office just
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made Johnny more concerned he recalled that her boss was rude stating that Dana hadn't shown up for work that morning
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and then he was quick to hang up on him now it seems like Dana may have had a history of showing up late even skipping
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every so often so perhaps the response was just out of frustration I don't know but annoyed by this guy apparent apathy
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Johnny ended up calling back and this time he spoke to one of Dana's female co-workers her friend who spoke
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respectfully but she said the same thing nope Dana hadn't shown up and she never
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called in to tell anyone she'd be out that day though people at work seemed to be letting her absence slide there was
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at least one person in DC who was worried enough about Dana to dig a little deeper and that was her landlord
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she and her teenage son actually shared a home with Dana they lived upstairs while Dana had the entire basement floor
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to herself with her own separate entrance and the landlord was the one to find the business card that detective
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Douglas left detective cards don't just like show up every day so figuring something was wrong she called him and
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learned that no one had been able to get in touch with Dana this really bothered
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her cuz Dana's car was right there in the driveway so she decided to to do a little investigating of her own after
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she hung up first she went to check and see if Dana would open the basement door
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maybe she hadn't heard when detective Douglas knocked earlier but after getting no response her landlord decided
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to enter the basement area using her own key and that's when it became clear why
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no one had heard from Dana back in South Carolina about 24 hours after they had received that odd call in the dead of
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the night the chism's phone startled them awake once again this time it was dispatch asking them to go to their
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front door where two County deputies were waiting for them Johnny opened the door and one of them handed him a number
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for the DC police when he called that's when they were finally told the horrific
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news that their daughter Dana had been murdered the chisms never went to DC they still haven't been to this day it
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was just too much for them to Bear instead they had a family member who was already living in the area confirm their
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daughter's identity on their behalf not having to make the identification was a blessing because what police had found
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at the scene was disturbing Dana was located in the hallway she was nude and a cord had been
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wrapped around her neck and was sitting up against the bedroom door with the cord wrapped around the handle of the
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door with her arms crossed in front of her Dana had been strangled with a piece of phone cord that had been cut part of
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it was still laying on top of her bed and detectives also observed these ligature marks where her hands or wrists
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had been tied up at some point having viewed photographs of the scene it seemed to be selectively ransacked it
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wasn't like a lot of your typical burglary scenes that I used to work where they were just trying to find
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anything that they could it's like this person knew what they were looking for and they were going into specific
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areas police believe the killer did take something with them that day but he also left something behind an
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ominous message written on the calendar in the hallway it referred to Dana in kind of a vulgar uh manner but then it
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says something really interesting which is I'll be back MPD solving the toughest criminal
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investigations sometimes requires a game of Risk with the coldest of cases investigators sometimes have no choice
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face but to show their hand in hopes of getting Killers to fold the deck takes true crime listeners through a deck of
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playing cards that is unlike any other are you ready to be dealt in follow the deck wherever you listen to podcast to
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make sure you don't miss out on a single episode then Sergeant Michael fish responded to the crime scene that day
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that this all broke in his 30s at the time working in the so-called murder capital he'd seen a lot of terrible
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things but this sexually explicit note ending in I'll be back MPD is permanently imprinted in his mind as is
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the fear that he felt when reading that final line could that have meant I'll be
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back in in other words there are more victims coming for boing warning that there were going to be more female
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victims is this the first one we've identified in perhaps a string of cases that we haven't had enough indications
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to say or l or is this the first one of somebody who's a real Wacko and goes you
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know what this is my first but not my last the department was clearly dealing with a killer who liked to play games
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not only had he left a pointed message for police but the medical examiner had Dana's likely time of death at Sometime
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Late on the evening of February 26th meaning that she was probably deceased hours before her poor parents received
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that mysterious call from a fake detective Douglas now they know that the killer didn't make the call from Dana's
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house because they were eventually able to trace it to a pay phone right by an area on Interstate 395 where you could
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hop on to go to Virginia or Maryland but they do think that this killer probably
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stuck around her apartment after she was dead Dana's landlord remembered hearing
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someone taking a long shower at some point the evening of Dana's murder and at the time she probably thought it was
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Dana but she did likely suspect even then that Dana wasn't alone in her basement apartment and that's because at
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around 6:00 p.m. she'd noticed an unknown car parked in the driveway right behind Dana's though it's important to
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note she couldn't remember any specific details about the car not thinking anything was out of the norm at the time
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I mean she hadn't really been paying much attention the landlord and her teenage son were home around the time
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Dana was thought to have been killed but they didn't hear anything concerning no
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loud arguments no sound of a struggle or screams for help but it was a pretty big
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house after all now it should have been easy to figure out who Dana was with that night detectives discovered that
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she kept a detailed date book and a diary that gave a pretty good play-by-play of her life she also had a
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caller ID box so for 1995 I mean police had everything they could possibly want to pinpoint who she was with or who
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she'd at least been in contact with leading up to her death except they didn't she had a landline so when somebody
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would call the call number would come up on the caller ID box and you could delete that but in this case the person
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took the actual box with them it seems most likely that the killer took the box with them because their number would
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have shown up in the recent call list possibly the most recent you see detectives spoke to one of Dana's
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friends who had been hanging out with her at Dana's place on Saturday afternoon before leaving around 5:30 and
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she had observed something very telling there was a friend of hers who was over there Saturday afternoon and they were
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planning to go out but then Dana changed her mind and during the time that she was over there uh Dana kept getting
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these phone calls that when she check the caller ID she just didn't bother answering now along with the caller ID
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box there were at least three other items known to be missing the first being Dana's apartment key seemingly it
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had been takeen with her killer probably used to lock the door on his way out but
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the weird thing is the killer didn't keep it and of all people it was a reporter who found it as they were
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filming news coverage outside of her place he finds the key in the street he calls the detectives over to comment on
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it and sure enough it's the key to Dana's apartment it's interesting that the uh killer felt the need to lock the
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door after he left from my understanding it was taken off a key ring and so why did he do that why did he feel the need
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to take it off the key ring and of course once I didn't need it anymore I would have gotten rid of it as soon as
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possible because that's would be something to link me to her and I wouldn't want that to be found in my
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possession the other two items that appeared to be missing were never found her most recent datebook and diary which
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makes detective Trum think that someone was trying to erase any sign that they had ever existed in Dana's life but
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there was something left behind that couldn't be erased her autopsy revealed that Dana was 4 weeks pregnant Johnny
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told our reporter Madison that her family hadn't known about the pregnancy but in hindsight he did remember
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something Dana had recently called him to let him know that she would be making a trip home soon she said she had
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something to tell him you could theorize that she had just learned that she may be pregnant maybe it hasn't
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been confirmed yet but she's just learned this and she told this person that one of the things that in Reading
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information about the interviews she would use a condom maybe with this person she did maybe she developed you
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know some kind of more personal relationship with him and didn't use a condom and became pregnant we really
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don't know these things are all theories that you really can't prove one way or the other we know Dana did know about
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the pregnancy because about a week before her Murder She confided the news to a coworker it came up because this
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friend or coworker caught Dana crying at the office so it seemed like this Revelation was not something Dana had
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planned or was happy about at least not in that vulnerable moment we don't know for sure if Dana told this friend or
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anyone else who she thought the father may have been both Trum and fish didn't think that friend or anyone else
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detective spoke to had ever off offered up a possible name at least that they could remember and you would think that
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a comment like that would stand out enough to leave a lasting impression we asked present day DC police Commander
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Kevin kentish if Dana had given her friend a name of a potential guy but he said he couldn't comment as obviously
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this person would be considered a suspect finding out who Dana's with before she died was police's number one
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priority and lucky for them Dana herself might have left them their first list of
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potential suspects hi crime junkie I'm your host Ashley flowers and I'm Brit and every
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week we cover all kinds of True Crime cases from the most infamous to mysterious deaths and disappearances
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even cases you've never heard anywhere else if you can't get enough of all things True Crime well youve found your
00:19:22
people and if you're like us and want to make a real impact in these cases you're
00:19:27
definitely a crime Junkie so join us every Monday for new episodes you can find crime junkie wherever you get your
00:19:34
podcasts Dana had been keeping track of the various men she'd been seeing inside
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her apartment police found notes that included some names and phone numbers what her job didn't know what her
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parents didn't know what a lot of her close friends did was that once she had a lot of boyfriends but two she was
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working part-time as an escort she was advertising for dates and back then you didn't have the internet of course and
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so we were to advertise in like the local weekly newspaper you know people looking for a companionship or what not
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there was like some phone lines that you could call and exchange information and
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from my understanding from what her friends were saying about her and from what some of her clients of her
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interview were saying about her was that she was asking for money directly typically if she got involved with a
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client and they had sex she would maybe drop a hint that she could use and they would often times pay her I
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think it's important to clear something up there are some things I found online that seem to imply that what she was
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doing was extortion but both Trum and ferish said none of the men who were interviewed described it as being
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blatant or malicious fish said it was more like Dana was making suggestions it was the let me play the sympathy card
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heart string or don't be a dant whatever way you want to put it uh yeah I I it isn't like she came out
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and said 'l give me some cash or I'm calling the old lady uh we had no indication of that it was just you know
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there were men that did stupid things and you know no pun intended basically got caught with their pants down and you
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know had the the monetary wherewithal to say you know what it's e easier to give
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her $100 and roll out of here pretend like this never happened and I think that was more along the lines of what
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would occur it was the quote unquote my roommates suddenly moved out soab story type thing one of the interesting things
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about her and this is actually what one of her friends warned her about she would become emotionally involved with
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some of these folks and she would begin to see them as friends so that probably did play a part in her demise and I hate
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to phrase it that way cuz the last thing that we need to do is start victim blaming just because she engaged in that
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lifestyle does not mean that she deserved to die so I think we have to be careful but we also have to understand
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victimology is very important because we have to understand what might have been
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going on around the victim's life during that time and again a bad word but appropriate word contributed to her
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demise often times that's the only way that you can identify the person who killed her by looking at that aspect and
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looking at timelines and things like that now the kind of men she saw varied businessmen flashy guys she met out at
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clubs some were single others were married but according to fish there was one type that she seemed to go for above
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all others she kind of had a thing for cops there was several cops that we identified whether they were local or
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federal law enforcement had relations with her whether it was a date and sex or just meeting somewhere and hooking up
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out of all the long La enforcement that they identified and interviewed fairish things at least two were cops who were
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working for MPD at the time it was one of those look you're going to come down and talk to us or I'm going to call your
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house and have you come down and talk to us don't you think it would just be easier I don't care if you're stepping
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out on your marriage that's not my business that's between you and your conscience and your wife not me the ones
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in law enforcement that we did identify I were very confident you know and believe me they were scrutinized we
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looked at them sideways so you know no doubt and rest assured every effort was put into identifying who we could
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getting the story out of them and then trying to pick it apart so that we didn't have egg on our face later there
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was another MPD officer who wasn't necessarily on Dana's list who may have been familiar with her though remember
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Detective detective LS Douglas although he hadn't initially remembered any connection to Dana after her body was
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found and he came down to the homicide office to make a statement he realized that he had actually met her before you
00:24:11
see about a week or so before Dana's murder there had been some things stolen at the Hudson Institute where she worked
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and Douglas was the one handling that case and he'd actually talked to Dana he denied any sort of contact with her
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beyond that he said that when he got back to the station after her body had been found he went through the
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complaintant file and found her name in the file system as someone he had talked
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to or someone he had taken a report from he said that he had no memory of her until he went back and pulled that up
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Dana kept this book filled with business cards which was found during investigators search of her place and
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the theory that emerged was that her killer could have found the card that detective Douglas would have given Dana
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inside that book book and then had taken it with him to the pay phone that night
00:25:03
and that's why he used the name detective Douglas when he called the chisms and that might be true it might
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not but either way it didn't explain why he made the call in the first place was
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it intended to give a reason to her parents why she wouldn't be in touch maybe to try and prolong anyone
00:25:23
realizing that Dana was dead or was it purely just to mess with them one day in March when the phone at the homicide
00:25:33
office rang then Sergeant Michael ferish got the answer to that question we brought you the deck podcast
00:25:42
to tell the stories of cold cases each week that need your attention but in doing so we stumbled
00:25:49
across a case that we couldn't possibly scratch the surface of in a single episode so we dug deeper to bring you a
00:26:00
brand new limited series this is the deck investigates listen wherever you get your
00:26:09
podcast and I'm sitting at my desk and someone hollered hey sge line one so I hit line one yeah Sergeant ferish
00:26:19
homicide and the person starts talking to me and that's when I realize they know something about this case I'm
00:26:27
looking back at the detectives in the office who are working going okay someone's just messing with me but they
00:26:32
start talking about the case not in particulars but more about data as Squad sergeant of the homicide
00:26:42
unit at that time fish had naturally become kind of the talking head for Dana's case any updates to the media
00:26:49
were made through him so it made sense why this caller would have asked for him specifically when I'm talking to him
00:26:57
it's quick phone call I'm talking about maybe a minute 90 seconds but he said enough for me to go uh this might be
00:27:05
legit if it ain't one of the guys messing with me this might be legit and the voice is not familiar to
00:27:12
me uh so when he's talking he's like well you know you know how to reach out to me and I'm like no dude I don't know
00:27:18
how to reach out to you and I was like you know give me a name and he goes what do you think I'm going to give you my
00:27:23
name and I go well you got to give me something I go because I'm tired of calling you sir and dude
00:27:29
and I said so give me a name so I know if you call me again I'll know I'm talking to you and he gave me a
00:27:37
name though the voice was similar to the one who called the chisms a bit raspy maybe a guy in his 30s or 40s this time
00:27:47
he didn't call himself detective Douglas now this time he used the name of a Marvel character now I'm not going to
00:27:56
reveal which one because it's something that fish believes could be important to
00:28:00
hold back in fact the first time Madison called him and mentioned the nickname she heard he was taken a back afraid
00:28:07
that the cat was out of the bag but he wanted you to know the Marvel part because after all of this time he thinks
00:28:14
that there's a chance that that's what could stand out to someone who may have information maybe the caller chose this
00:28:21
specific Marvel Superhero for a reason because I a was hoping that this guy would call me again because he called
00:28:30
two or three times he always asked to speak to me sometimes he called you know I'm working day work and he'd call on
00:28:37
the midnight shift or he'd call on the 3 to 11 shift and I would come in and and
00:28:42
my mail sloppy one of those little yellow or pink you were called by and they would write down the name you were
00:28:49
called by so and so but we had no caller ID we couldn't do trap and Trace we couldn't do any of
00:28:56
that so on my desk phone I had what they called an induction coil which is basically just a a suction cup it was a
00:29:05
suction cup with a microphone and you would put it on like the back side of the receiver that you put up here here
00:29:11
and it had a wire and it would run to an oldfashioned tape recorder and when you
00:29:15
went to take a call so whenever I was at my desk I would hit record on the tape deck and pick up the phone in case it
00:29:22
was him of course he never called when I was sitting at my damn desk there was no
00:29:26
set schedule or anything and he would never stay on the phone he would never let me put him on hold I
00:29:34
guess because he always thought that you know oh you're going to trace the phone
00:29:38
number and I would be like dude we can't trace the phone this is the DC police department you know we're using dial
00:29:45
phones we don't have that kind of Technology but for whatever reason he didn't buy it we couldn't Trace those
00:29:52
calls it was impossible believe me we looked into it if was there any way to trace incoming calls calls the answer
00:29:59
was flat no the one thing they did find out was that the incoming calls were local fish
00:30:07
said the man sounded intelligent not genius but smart and in control of his emotions this guy would never straight
00:30:15
up say that he killed Dana but the insinuation was definitely there in one of the few calls where he made contact
00:30:22
with fish he said that he knew why Dana was murdered said it was because of her life style because she went out to clubs
00:30:30
and slept with multiple men and he wanted ferish to let the world know that he wanted him to announce it to the
00:30:38
media so after seeking some advice from behavioral analysis experts at quanico fish did go public with more information
00:30:46
on Dana but he painted a picture very opposite of the one that the caller had described I think I referred to her as
00:30:57
the All American Girl the kind of you know the cheerleader sang in the choir kind of girl you bring home to Mom and
00:31:07
Dad it seemed to work he got aise out of this collar and after a bit of a break the man called again saying he was back
00:31:16
in town and now he was willing to meet face to face with ferish all I remember is I I had a trench coat on cuz it was
00:31:25
raining and it was chilly but I was in the office the phone rang it was him and he said if you want to meet me and he
00:31:34
gave me a location out in uh I if I remember correctly I believe it was out in Southeast DC out off Minnesota Avenue
00:31:44
and he said come and meet me there and I grabbed my coat grabbed my radio and I ran out the
00:31:53
door uh I don't I don't even remember telling anybody else in the unit that I was headed out I was just like you need
00:32:00
me I'm on the radio I drove over there I parked the cruiser um you know it was an
00:32:06
unmarked Cruiser but you know every every mope in the city knew what unmarked police cruisers look like and I
00:32:13
sat there in the rain drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes and looking at every car and every person that walked
00:32:21
by uh hoping that if he comes up on me and he goes to shoot me at least I hope we see him coming
00:32:28
and he doesn't come in from an angle from a mirror that I don't see uh but that's how badly I wanted meet this son
00:32:36
of them uh because I I don't want to say I took a personal but I guess it sort is like
00:32:44
oh you've you've taunted with me I I really want to see the one behind this the guy who poked the bear and said yeah
00:32:54
oh you want to meet me come and meet me and had me sitting in a car for God I don't remember how many hours I sat
00:33:02
there uh just burning gas sitting in the cold wet hoping that he would show up and and if he did I never saw him but he
00:33:12
would have seen me I honestly don't know I I mean I know that that that feeling you say you know where you feel like
00:33:20
you're being watched um I don't know I I wouldn't say that that overcame me there was plenty
00:33:27
of Vantage points to see me without approaching hell he could have walked right past the car looked in the window
00:33:34
I wouldn't have known it was him you know what I mean after about 2 months and three short phone calls this
00:33:40
mysterious man never contacted police or the chisms again at least to anyone's knowledge which left that provocative
00:33:49
message that the killer had written on Dana's wall calendar to just Loom over them but then it says something really
00:33:56
interesting which is I'll be back in PD anticipation and anxiety morphed into relief when the killer didn't follow
00:34:04
through on his threat there didn't seem to be any other victims connected to this case and even better they realized
00:34:12
that his note and the warning at the end might actually include a big clue about
00:34:18
who their suspect could be when you think of New England you don't think of this
00:34:28
I'm Kylie low I'm an investigative journalist and Storyteller each week I share homicides and missing persons
00:34:34
cases from across the state of Maine and greater New England this is my home these stories are my passion and this
00:34:41
podcast is my platform to help friends and families keep the memories of their loved ones alive long after the
00:34:47
attention Fades this is dark down east Trum and fish both believe that this man had some type of relationship
00:34:59
with Dana this wasn't some random stranger what he wrote the fact that he called her parents and told them that
00:35:06
she was busted for sex work even the stuff he told feris to say to the media it all led to the same possible
00:35:13
conclusion I think it can be argued that one he's very angry with her uh he is involved in some kind of relationship
00:35:23
with her he's very angry he wants her to grade it uh probably because she hurt him or whatever along that line or maybe
00:35:31
she wasn't monogamous like he wanted her to be but he definitely want wanted the
00:35:36
world to know and wanted her parents to know that he considered her to be an awful person the second clue was an even
00:35:44
bigger one you see both Trum and ferish said that around this time those outside
00:35:50
of law enforcement weren't likely referring to the force as MPD it was much more common to Simply say DC police
00:35:59
my tenative Theory at this point would be that I mean this would be somebody who she had established a relationship
00:36:06
with relatively soon before her death that he was extremely possessive he had some sort of knowledge or contact with
00:36:17
uh police officers so he did either worked in law enforcement had a law enforcement Source or maybe was a
00:36:25
criminal himself who had enough information about okay though fish feels fairly confident that the killer wasn't
00:36:31
with MPD at the time he like Trum is pretty sure that there's at least some link to local police somebody maybe had
00:36:41
been a cop and got fired for whatever reason you know they could have had dirty pee you know got fired because
00:36:49
they smoked a joint or some crap who knows but there could have been an ax to grind towards the department too
00:36:58
along with the use of the acronym MPD Trum also points out the way that the killer talked to Dana's parents the
00:37:05
night that he called them his lingo and the information he gave uh he didn't really know that much about
00:37:11
investigations but he knew enough about prostitutions things he knew enough about how police booking Works things
00:37:17
along that line you want to know the thing that makes me the most convinced where that call to Johnny was made from
00:37:26
remember it was traced to a pay phone by the interstate and they were only able to do that because longdistance calls
00:37:33
were recorded by the phone providers back then and a call from DC to her parents down in South Carolina would
00:37:39
have been long distance I think he knew that and let me tell you why some say that he might have picked that location
00:37:47
because it was right where you could hop on the highway to leave the district you
00:37:50
know High tail it out of town and sure maybe that's it but maybe it's deeper than that maybe it was another
00:37:59
message there's a place called Triple Nickel which was 555 4th Street Northwest that was us attorney's office
00:38:07
two blocks south of that was Police Headquarters two blocks north of that was a carry out on a corner at Fourth
00:38:17
and Massachusetts Avenue and then like a block block and a half north of that was
00:38:22
what we called Court parking where back at that time if you had a if you were an
00:38:28
officer there was a parking lot that you had a court P parking permit you put it
00:38:33
in your windshield you could park your car on this lot to go and attend court because next door to police headquarters
00:38:40
was the DC Superior Court which is where most of the trials occurred so the phone
00:38:45
call to the Chism we don't know if it was intentionally made from that location but it was made between Court
00:38:54
parking us attorney's office and and then just below that headquarters and court so it was a it was a location very
00:39:03
well known to any cop that did any work and ever had to go to the US attorney's court or
00:39:10
headquarters that carry out at that corner where the pay phones were also was a place where a lot of cops would
00:39:18
stop and get a cup of coffee so was this a coincidence was it possible the killer
00:39:26
was one of their own or was it someone who hated law enforcement and made the calculated move
00:39:32
to stick their metaphorical middle finger up at investigators like I just killed a woman and now I'm right outside
00:39:39
practically on your doorstep calling her parents pretending to be one of you the
00:39:45
list of men who were officially connected to law enforcement in Dana's case is limited if you remember at least
00:39:52
two who are working for MPD who were known to have engaged with Dana socially maybe about a handful of others who
00:39:59
worked for different law enforcement agencies who she had seen in some form or fashion and detective Lewis Douglas
00:40:06
now that's not to say that there weren't more because again her most recent datebook and diary and caller ID were
00:40:12
taken intentionally trying to erase some record of someone but of the people who we do know
00:40:20
about someone stands out to Johnny Chisum he has always wondered if there was more more to this detective Lewis
00:40:28
Douglas story for one he told our reporter Madison that the one time they spoke Douglas asked him about finding
00:40:37
his daughter before Johnny even clarified what exactly was going on two he thinks it's possible that the voice
00:40:43
he heard on the phone that fateful night sounded similar enough to have potentially been the real detective
00:40:49
Douglas he called later that morning and three he found it odd that detective Douglas never did call him back never
00:40:57
explained why his name had gotten mixed up in all of this you could say Johnny just thought it was all a little
00:41:04
sketchy had the Killer really just found Douglas's card and decided to roll with
00:41:10
it that's actually what both retired detective trainum and retired Captain ferish think of course that thought was
00:41:18
in our head you know did Lewis meet her when he was down on a call you know working give her his card and said hey
00:41:25
let's hook up and did she maybe say yeah we you know we had to flesh that out and
00:41:30
we did and you know long story short we we were able to clear Lewis Douglas from
00:41:37
any any kind of involvement in this fish also had an explanation for some of Johnny's concerns at the time Douglas
00:41:47
was young he was inexperienced in his role maybe even a little reserved the seemingly odd interaction Johnny had
00:41:54
could just be blamed on the fact that Douglas was I mean shocked that his name had been dragged into something so
00:41:59
brutal present day DC police Commander Kevin kenes also confirmed this for our reporter Madison yes Douglas was looked
00:42:07
into but nothing LED them to believe that he could have been the killer he was not considered a suspect and that
00:42:14
wasn't just true of Douglas police looked at a lot of people and each of them were getting eliminated as suspects
00:42:21
one by one either through aliis voice stress tests or the like they did focus in a lot on a couple of
00:42:31
Associates uh both personal and professional of Dana mostly ones that had either a violent background a
00:42:38
criminal background may have been involved in some sort of domestic issues on their own I don't have any specific
00:42:43
numbers as to how many people they questioned or looked at or whatever but there were a lot I mean I would say
00:42:49
dozens and some they looked at much more carefully than others um some they could
00:42:54
rule out pretty quickly because they had good aliis that they were able to cooperate others especially if they
00:43:00
weren't Cooperative or whatever it it took longer to rule them out um and like I said I just don't know how many they
00:43:07
ruled out you know based on voice stress analysis test back then you would investigate by polygraph and you would
00:43:14
use that to make decisions as to who you would follow up on and who you wouldn't
00:43:19
not recognizing the number of false positives and the false negatives um you know the best polygraph examiners you
00:43:25
know first off I don't believe in the polygraph for many reasons but I have worked with polygraph examiners and the
00:43:31
best ones that I have worked with the main value of the polygraph is the Mystique behind it and it's the pre-
00:43:37
polygraph interview where the person is so freaked out that they're going to be caught on a polygraph that they give
00:43:44
more information that that they intended to but the best polygraph examiners I ever worked with would always tell me
00:43:51
that you always follow the evidence you don't follow the polygraph don't follow the polygraph follow the evidence well
00:43:59
lucky for MPD it seems like they should have some of that to work with our world is full of natural
00:44:08
wonders but what happens when human Predators visit these Serene Landscapes with evil in
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mind I'm taking you beyond the beauty of some of the most unique places on Earth
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to explore the chilling stories that devastate these picturesque destinations because some times the most
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beautiful places hide the darkest Secrets listen to park Predators wherever you get your
00:44:35
podcasts during Dana's autopsy in 1995 a full examination was done along with a sexual assault kit from her autopsy
00:44:44
there was no uh indication of Sean uh I I don't recall any being found on the bed uh because there was
00:44:56
evidence they had been in the bed prior to where she was ultimately found near a
00:45:03
uh hallway door or closet door uh outside of the bedroom but that doesn't mean there wasn't any sexual
00:45:12
activity involved in that there was some question as to whether or not there was
00:45:17
seing on another article within the house according to trainum that other article might be a towel well we know
00:45:25
that they wanted to test back in 1995 however during that time period there was no codus database and so no
00:45:35
laboratory would just test an item just to get a DNA sample if they had nothing to compare it to you needed to submit
00:45:43
somebody's DNA uh to the laboratory so that they could do a one-on-one comparison now I do know that they did
00:45:50
take um you know salava samples you know DNA you know from several people but I don't have any information as to if
00:45:58
those were submitted and compared to the towel fish also remembers some folks offering up saliva samples voluntarily
00:46:06
but at least while he was on the force resources kept detectives from being able to send anything off DNA work at
00:46:12
that time we had to farm out uh to b b labs and it was expensive I mean for like two items to be tested was like
00:46:23
five grand and you got to remember this is a time when the city was broke H we were sometimes putting tires on police
00:46:33
cars out of our own pocket the police department couldn't afford to buy tires for the freaking cars I mean it was bad
00:46:42
you know we had rotary phones at the homicide unit no caller ID no voicemail no it it was bad financially it was bad
00:46:52
so DNA testing was very specific and it wasn't a fishing expedition to see oh well let's do DNA testing to see if
00:47:03
something's in codus that'll match because you got to remember I I I don't even know if they called it cotus yet it
00:47:10
was in its infancy I mean we understood the concept of DNA but we also understood how financially prohibitive
00:47:19
it was for our department to have DNA work done basically back then what they did is they would look at DNA a as more
00:47:27
of a way to prove that the suspect you already had did it not a way to like go looking for suspects and the problem
00:47:36
they had was truly that they had no idea who killed Dana and I know that sounds like a party line but we even asked
00:47:44
Faris straight up you know like okay no official suspects we get it but every detective has a favorite even if it's
00:47:50
just a hunch who is your hunch who is your favorite there's no one that I sat there and I went you know I think this
00:47:57
some is good for it I've been in homicide around long enough to know 90 to 95% of the cases that are
00:48:05
investigated within a reasonable amount of time most of the time the detectives got a pretty good idea who did the
00:48:12
murder it's one thing to know and it's another thing to take the court and prove and they just lack that proof in
00:48:19
Dana's case honestly my answer is no without even an oldfashioned Columbo hun to follow they needed what DNA has
00:48:29
now become it's not as cost prohibitive nowadays and with the growth of cod is the database over 30 years and now you
00:48:39
throw in the genetic DNA work that can be done it's only going to get better because that's only going to improve and
00:48:48
lead to more suspects being identified starting at around the year 2000 during the entire last decade of his career
00:48:56
with MPD Trum was working to identify cold cases within the department that had the potential of being solved using
00:49:03
DNA evidence I mean that's the whole reason he had familiarized himself with Dana's case in the first place it was
00:49:08
part of this bigger review he was flagging the ones with the best chances and within those cases identifying which
00:49:15
items would be sent off first but here's the thing when it came to the forensic evidence in Dana's case they hadn't been
00:49:23
able to move forward with testing any items not because they didn't want to but because they couldn't find them we
00:49:31
have a very poor track record uh especially back then of keeping evidence um it's often times misplaced what was
00:49:38
going on during the time right before I left was they were actually moving the warehouse and so evidence that we could
00:49:44
not find earlier they were now going through every piece of evidence and barcoding it and putting into a database
00:49:52
and that's why this case was listed on my spreadsheet as one where we hadn't found the
00:49:59
evidence yet but the information about property control numbers were there and so if they were able to find the
00:50:04
evidence in the future during his review Trum says that there were several items
00:50:09
of interest that stood out right away but at that point they were stuck they had to just wait and see if they would
00:50:16
be able to locate any of those things during the move but there were several things that I mean could be tested um
00:50:23
not only the towel but also the ligatures um you know the phone cord the one around her neck we didn't know this back
00:50:31
then but of course if somebody grabs a cord and they pull it they tighten it their skin cells are going to go off
00:50:37
from the cord and you can often times get a DNA profile from that and there's something else there's like over 100
00:50:47
fingerprints found in our house back then you needed to have somebody's prints to compare it to one to one I
00:50:54
never saw any information about any fingerprint comparison that were done with any of these suspects but now they
00:50:59
have automatic fingerprint comparison system where you can take prints that are or of sufficient quality run them
00:51:07
through this database and it will kick back with like the top 10 top 20 top 30 you then have to do a manual comparison
00:51:14
that would be something that I would have done go back and re-evaluate these prints put them through the system see
00:51:19
what kicks back there was also special attention given to the bathroom in Dana's apartment because of what her
00:51:26
land lady had heard that long shower it's believed that the killer took that night I think that's why uh that much
00:51:34
attention was paid on the whole uh shower you know the drain and the trap and all that is because that information
00:51:42
she shared while we were still on the scene they even pulled the drain in the tub you know for hairs or anything
00:51:51
else what about Dana being pregnant what I wondered more than anything else else
00:51:57
was couldn't some DNA samples have been obtained from the fetal tissue to determine paternity the short answer is
00:52:04
yes it could yes there would have been a a a sample tissue sample taken by the medical examiner during
00:52:12
autopsy this is where things get a little frustrating when Trum eventually retired in 2010 to his knowledge they
00:52:21
had yet to locate the potential forensic evidence in Dana's case now it's worth noting that that fish wasn't on the same
00:52:28
cold case review team as tra towards the end of his career he was more focused on
00:52:33
current homicide so he wasn't really privy to the notion that anything in Dana's case had perhaps even gone
00:52:38
missing but fish did say that when he retired 2 years after trainum in 2012 as far as he was aware still nothing in
00:52:47
Dana's case had been sent off for testing so we needed to go directly to the source The Authority currently in
00:52:56
charge to find out what's been going on here but it remains unclear because when Madison spoke with
00:53:05
Commander kenes during an informal half-hour phone conversation he wouldn't get into specifics are you able to say
00:53:12
anything about you know if items are still around that can be tested because I think Trum was unsure if you know I
00:53:20
think during that time evidence was kind of being moved from a warehouse so it was unsure if these if these are even
00:53:27
still existed no so um the evidence has been preserved um there's no fear of that um
00:53:34
I can't speak to the exact testing of evidence but I can say that we have made um some progress in that case um and uh
00:53:42
it is being investigated right now it is not a cold case as far as on the Shelf uh somebody's actively investigating
00:53:47
that case and we have made some uh some good progress in that case that unfortunately because it's open I can't
00:53:53
talk about can you say if the progress is like related to testing evidence or like potential evidence that that's
00:54:01
played a role in um us making the progress okay okay that's great to hear okay so it's safe to say you know for
00:54:09
the story we we can say that evidence in this case that you know forensic evidence in this case has been preserved
00:54:18
does exist and that um you know testing of those items has led to progress yes that is correct can you say um the last
00:54:28
time one or more of those items was tested like was it recently no comment on that
00:54:36
one I really want to hold on to what he said about making good progress but because I don't know what testing he's
00:54:43
referring to or how recently it may have happened maybe it's false hope Commander
00:54:48
kenes did specifically confirm that some sort of fetal tissue evidence does exist
00:54:55
and that attempting to figure out who the father was using forensic technology is something detectives are looking into
00:55:03
now I'm going to say the obvious thing real quick like getting Dana pregnant does not automatically mean that this
00:55:09
person is also her killer but Johnny Chisum told our reporting team that he feels like her pregnancy has to be
00:55:15
connected to her death in some way police have to find the biological father they have to find the person who
00:55:23
tried so hard to wipe his existence from Dana place and her life whether they're
00:55:28
the same person or not her friends might know this person and they might not be aware that he's never been identified or
00:55:35
never been interviewed I think it would be very helpful there was anybody that they knew that Dana was involved with in
00:55:42
any way shape or form that they didn't tell the police about or maybe they learned about later after they were
00:55:49
interviewed by the police or even if they did tell the police back then that they for whatever reason they still have
00:55:55
a strong suspicion or they even have a stronger suspicion now with the passage of time because things have happened
00:56:02
just because police ruled out somebody back then doesn't mean that new information might lead them right back
00:56:10
so just as an example uh yeah there was this guy who was seeing Dana he seemed like he was really nice oh but a few
00:56:17
years later he gets locked up for violently assaulting his girlfriend and some other stuff you know maybe you want
00:56:23
to call back and say Hey you might want to recheck this guy just in case that was tram's call out and mine is to MPD I
00:56:33
don't know if funding is still an issue but if it is please consider applying for a grant with season of Justice it's
00:56:40
a nonprofit that will pay the private lab of your choosing to test DNA in a few short years they've already issued
00:56:47
over a million dollars in Grants that have gone on to actually solve cold cases I started that nonprofit because I
00:56:54
believe that money should never be the the reason that a family like the chisms doesn't get answers and listen I'm not
00:57:00
ignorant to the fickleness of the legal system depending on what DNA you get and
00:57:04
from where it might not be the Smoking Gun you need if the DNA is matched to this person who says that he's never
00:57:12
been in the house boom that's probative if the if the towel is in a place where look like draped on top of items that
00:57:23
were part of the rans sacking that makes it more approp if we learn uh from Dana's friends or
00:57:30
Associates that every Saturday uh or every Sunday morning she does her laundry washes all the towels that makes
00:57:39
it more probative I'll take probative probative is a place to start but those ligatures
00:57:46
more than anything seem like a treasure Trove to me pretty hard to explain away your DNA on the phone cord wrapped
00:57:53
around her neck listen I wish I could tell you more about the testing I wish I knew more I bet the chisms wish they
00:58:01
knew more too they have been kind and patient for a long time I know many other families I work with feel like
00:58:09
they have to be like they don't want to alienate the one line they have to the people and the agencies who are supposed
00:58:15
to solve their loved ones case but that's why it's all of our jobs to make the noise it is unacceptable to me that
00:58:24
it has taken this long to do everything possible in Dana's case there should be viable evidence there are available
00:58:31
funding methods so there are no excuses Dana deserves so much better her family deserves better the people of DC should
00:58:42
be furious because they deserve better too it's evident Dana's murderer wanted to degrade her wanted everyone to think
00:58:49
less of her but I hope he knows that we don't not a single person we spoke to does
00:58:56
Dana was kind-hearted someone who never met a stranger her dad described her like this there are some people who were
00:59:05
just put on this Earth because they were meant to serve others and that was his Dana always helpful forever a true
00:59:12
friend she was a loving young woman with a beautiful smile her life was full and
00:59:18
it was valuable and that is how she will always be remembered but to Dana's murderer
00:59:26
it's all about to come apart for you people are going to know how small you are and how ugly your heart
00:59:34
is you know Dana was so much more in 25 years than you have ever had the potential to be I don't know how people
00:59:44
look at you right now if there's even anyone who looks at you with love or something like
00:59:50
respect but i' take it in you're on a clock now and I'm not the the only one who thinks
00:59:57
so obviously you don't feel safe obviously you think that any day the hammer could come down and you're right
01:00:05
the hammer may be coming down tomorrow it's about time past time for someone who knows something to come
01:00:13
forward be that call that brings the chism's faith after almost 30 years with no
01:00:20
answers if you are that someone please call the Metropolitan Police Department in Washington DC at 202 727
01:00:31
999 or you can remain anonymous and just type what you know to mpd's text tipline
01:00:38
50411 there is a $25,000 reward for information that leads to the arrest and conviction in the homicide of Dana Chism
01:00:48
the deck is an audio cheuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis to learn more about the deck and our advocacy
01:00:55
work visit theed deck podcast.com and don't forget to check out our weekly podcasts wherever you listen to podcasts
01:01:04
so what do you think Chuck do you approve