00:00:01
Within 20 seconds, we're looking at a dead body right in front of us in exactly the place where the bad smell
00:00:08
was coming from. There she is. I could see a face staring at me um with what appeared to be a hole in the side of the
00:00:17
skull. I could see the hair and I I couldn't believe what I was seeing. >> Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley
00:00:30
Flowers. >> And I'm Brit. >> And buckle the up because I am about to take you for a ride.
00:00:38
>> Brit, you know, my famous last words are like, "Oh, this case seems interesting."
00:00:41
Like, it could make like a quick mini episode. >> Yeah. Just cuz no one else has ever done
00:00:45
anything super like meaty. Like must not be a lot [music] there. >> Just kidding.
00:00:49
>> Well, wrong again. This case out of North Wales is [music] one that police have called the strangest case they've
00:00:57
ever worked. A woman named Trevolene Evans [music] vanished into thin air in the middle of
00:01:02
a busy town 35 years ago after being seen with a mystery man. And in 2019, two guys in North Wales got a tip about
00:01:12
where her body might be. And for the first time ever, we are going to report [music] on their full story. And we have
00:01:20
the neverbefore published photos they say prove that they found her. and photos that show someone [music] might
00:01:29
still be trying to cover up a murder. >> And they invited us back and asked us to
00:01:35
have another look again with our camera. And honest to God, my blood ran cold at
00:01:40
that moment. I realized what they'd done. It's just before midnight on Saturday,
00:01:51
June 16th, 1990, [music] when the North Wales police get a call from a man named
00:01:56
Richard Evans. He's worried about his 52-year-old wife, Trevolene, because she didn't show up to their dinner date that
00:02:02
evening. She's still not home, and he tells police that he'd already checked the little secondhand antique shop that
00:02:08
she runs just a few blocks away in case [music] she was burning the midnight oil. I mean, it was tourist season after
00:02:13
all. But even though her car was parked nearby, she didn't seem to [music] be there. And hanging on the door was a
00:02:20
handwritten sign that sent chills running through him. Back in 2 minutes, it read. Now, signs like this weren't
00:02:29
uncommon to see on the door, like it was something Trevaline often [music] did. She would tape them up when she was just
00:02:34
like stepping out really quick. But Richard had gone by the shop earlier in the day, and that same sign was hanging
00:02:40
there back in 2 minutes. And the last time he went by late in the evening, he let himself inside through an unlocked
00:02:47
back door and found more evidence that worried him. Her handbag, her keys, jacket, they were all there inside her
00:02:53
shop. Things she'd normally take with her if she was going to go anywhere for more than 2 minutes. I mean, even her
00:02:59
makeup compact was sitting out in the open on the counter like she had just been there. I mean, every single sign
00:03:06
seemed to point to her coming back. So that's when he phoned police. When officers responded to Richard's call, it
00:03:13
seemed like they were thinking this might end like so many missing person's cases with the person just showing back
00:03:19
up eventually. But there's only one way to know for sure. So, they start by trying [music] to piece together
00:03:24
Trevaline's movements that day. Except her husband actually can't help with that. He tells them that he and
00:03:30
Trevalene had spent the earlier part of the week about an hour away in a town called Ruddlin where they were
00:03:37
renovating this little bungalow that they planned to live in once they retired soon. Trevaline headed back to
00:03:42
their current place in Langofflin [music] midweek to tend to her shop while Richard stayed behind to keep working on
00:03:48
the place. Now, that dinner that she missed was the first time they planned on seeing each other once like both of
00:03:53
them had gotten back. >> And are [music] we sure she ever actually made it back into town? I mean,
00:03:58
I know her stuff's there, but did anyone lay eyes on her? >> Yes. So, which is why I think maybe for
00:04:02
a hot second they're like, "Oh, she's going to be back." I mean, her husband even makes a plea early on through the
00:04:07
media directly to his wife for her to come home. He says he doesn't understand why she would leave. They were happy.
00:04:14
But he doesn't seem to know what else to think. I mean, maybe he's afraid of the
00:04:19
worst. their police officer son who works a few towns over also named Richard. I mean, he's looking at the
00:04:25
situation differently [music] right from the start. Like, if she's gone, in his mind, someone forced her to leave. And
00:04:32
he tells reporters that his mom would never leave town without telling someone. She had a business to run, an
00:04:38
aging dad to care for, a grandchild, a ton of [music] friends. She wasn't in any financial trouble. She wasn't having
00:04:44
any medical problems. I mean, truly, she seemed to be looking forward to retirement. He says there is no reason
00:04:49
she would have to leave. And what's so confounding about this case is whether she left willingly or she was abducted,
00:04:57
neither makes complete sense to me with what they end up learning through their investigation. Physical searches for
00:05:03
Trevalene turn up nothing. [music] And these searches were extensive. In fact, it would become one of the most
00:05:09
extensive searches in northern Welsh history for the time. And by the end, they searched a 12mi radius around the
00:05:16
town. They even drag the river. They search local canal. I mean, they're looking inside caves and mines. They
00:05:22
knock on every single door in town, taking statements from hundreds of people and running down license plates
00:05:28
on more than 650 vehicles. They also find Traveline's address book. And according to the Daily Post, whose
00:05:34
reporting we relied on a lot for this episode, they call every number listed. And remember, it is tourist season in
00:05:42
this picturesque [music] little town. So there could be a witness out there who's
00:05:45
already come and gone and didn't even know that they saw something important. >> So police thinking this also go and
00:05:52
collect records from every hotel and bed and breakfast in the area and they contact more than 500 people on those
00:05:58
list too. And while they never find anything physical in their searches for Trevoline, they do over time collect a
00:06:06
bunch of little puzzle pieces that when put together paint a picture of her last
00:06:11
movements. But exactly when she put that be back in 2 minutes [music] sign up, where she went after, and who she met
00:06:20
becomes an even bigger question. Cuz a few people did see Trevaline the day she vanished. And they say she wasn't alone.
00:06:30
So, let me start with the timeline from the first full day that Trevaline was back in town. This is Thursday. At about
00:06:37
9:15 in the morning, a local woman says that she sees Travoline unloading her car near her shop on Church Street while
00:06:43
speaking to two men. There is a gay-haired man in a suit. Someone maybe in his like 50s with a briefcase.
00:06:50
Everyone calls this guy these smartly dressed man. [laughter] >> Very proper. >> Yes. But the witness also said that
00:06:56
there was a young man across the street who was like locking a gate at another shop and traveine seemed to be speaking
00:07:02
to him too. That's really all we know from Thursday. So then fast forward to Friday. This is the day before she goes
00:07:08
missing. There are more sightings of her and possibly more sightings of these two
00:07:12
men. According to a Crime Watch special on the case, a couple of local shop workers see Trevaline in the morning
00:07:18
walking [music] down the street with this same smartly dressed man in a navy blue suit with a black briefcase having
00:07:24
a conversation. Everything seems fine. Trevaline's even like waving to people that she knows. At 9:30, The Daily Post
00:07:32
has somebody putting her by this like tannery shop near her store with [music] the same smartly dressed older man. Then
00:07:40
at 12:30, she and this same guy are seen together in town on Oak Street. And Oak
00:07:45
Street is like a 4-minute walk from her antique [music] shop. Then we have them together again at 400 p.m. on Market
00:07:52
Street, which is right there in town, too. Like Oak Street, where they were earlier, just like turns into Market
00:07:57
Street when you cross Castle Street. >> Okay. And actually, Castle Street is the
00:08:01
next sighting of her. So, at about 8:30 that evening, two locals were driving home down Castle Street, and when they
00:08:08
stopped at a light, they saw Trevalene standing on the stoop of this shop. And they said she was like holding some
00:08:14
papers and was like poking her head out. She kept like popping in and out of this
00:08:18
little stoop. Seems like she was waiting for someone to come walking down the sidewalk,
00:08:23
>> but they didn't see anyone even when they looked behind them. And the woman in the car said that Trevolene normally
00:08:29
would wave to them or something, but she never even seemed to see them and so she
00:08:33
didn't acknowledge them. She seemed just super preoccupied in waiting for whatever or whoever it was she kept
00:08:40
looking for. Now, that same evening, some tourists who were in town just for the weekend tell police that they see
00:08:47
Travoline with the same smartly dressed man [music] at a place called Gail's Wine Bar, which is just one street over
00:08:54
from where they were seen together earlier in the day. And it's just around the corner from where that couple just
00:08:59
saw her like popping in and out of the stoop. I mean, it's like a 2 to 3 minute walk to Gails from there.
00:09:04
>> Okay, so like all really in this like small local area, >> very close. Now, all the sightings prior
00:09:09
to the Wine Bar seem to come from locals. So, I think police take those a tad more seriously, and they actually
00:09:16
only get this Wine Bar sighting after that Crime Watch episode airs, like weeks out from when she went missing.
00:09:22
So, I'm not saying they don't believe it. I just don't know how much they were able to follow up on it and what people
00:09:27
would remember even if they did all those weeks later. But, you know, like I was thinking to me it sounds like
00:09:33
Trevalene was waiting for someone to pick her up in a car. Like if you look at this on a map, this corner is at this
00:09:41
big intersection where you would stop and the side that she is on. I mean, I guess either side you could pop in. But
00:09:48
to me, the way she's like in and out, in and out, it's like you can't miss the car, right? Because like if the light
00:09:53
turns green or something or even if it was a green light, you got like 2 seconds to pop in. There's something
00:09:58
about it to me that's like, okay, was she waiting for someone to pick her up less like meeting somebody on the
00:10:03
sidewalk? Was it the smartly dressed man who picked her up? I mean, if the sighting at the wine bar is accurate, I
00:10:09
would think it had to be, >> right? >> Also, it seems most likely since we know she's spending so much time with this
00:10:15
guy for like so much of Friday. >> Yeah, I was going to say he's in all of these sightings, but he's just known as
00:10:21
the smartly dressed man. Like, none of the witnesses knew him. No, not even the locals.
00:10:27
>> And this is still when her husband is out of town, right? >> Right. So, this brings me to Saturday,
00:10:33
June 16th, again, 1990. Sometime that morning, a woman who owned a local market told police that Trevalene came
00:10:40
in to buy some milk. And something small she noticed is that when Trevolene opened her little purse, and when I say
00:10:47
purse, think more like tiny wallet than full bag. >> The shop owner said that she saw a stack
00:10:52
of cash. Now, Richard and police found her actual like big purse handbag in her shop, and some reports say that money
00:11:00
she'd had earlier in the day has never been found. But like, don't spiral just yet, though. There might be an innocent
00:11:06
explanation. Now, it seems Travelene made it to her store, opened up the shop like normal because that morning more
00:11:12
than two dozen customers come in and out of the antique shop. Even a friend stops
00:11:16
by to bring Traveline some fresh flowers sometime before noon. And this friend says like everything seemed totally
00:11:22
normal. They chatted a little bit. They had coffee. They even made plans to have
00:11:27
a girls night the next week. And it is after that friend leaves when the mystery really begins.
00:11:38
The world is full of mysteries that make us question everything we've ever known
00:11:43
to be true. These events leave us with a sense of wonder and yearning for understanding. I'm Evette Gentileway.
00:11:49
And I'm her sister, Rasha Pecarero. And each week on our podcast, So Supernatural, we take a deep dive into
00:11:56
the world's most bizarre and puzzling mysteries. Ready to dive into the unknown? Join us every Friday for a new
00:12:02
episode of So Supernatural, available wherever you listen to podcasts. A couple tells investigators that they
00:12:12
were in Trevalene's shop shortly after her friend left and they saw Trevolene like huddled in conversation at the back
00:12:19
of her store with a man who matches our smartly dressed mystery man description.
00:12:24
I don't know what they were talking about or if the couple could even hear anything, [music] but they don't report
00:12:29
anything else wild. They say they leave the shop and then the next thing we know
00:12:34
for sure is that sometime between 12 and 1, [music] Trevaline's brother stopped by the antique shop and found the door
00:12:41
locked and that be back in 2 minutes sign on the door, the one that Richard would discover later that night. Now,
00:12:48
one article I found mentioned that this brother made two stops at the shop like some 20 minutes apart and the sign was
00:12:54
up both times >> and that wasn't a red flag to him. >> No. So, like Trevolene had this slogan
00:13:00
for her store. It's like, "I'll buy anything." And she really meant it. So, it wasn't weird for her to head out in
00:13:06
the middle of the day multiple times a day to go meet someone for a sale or to scout out items that she could buy,
00:13:12
resell, whatever, or even just to leave for lunch. From what I can tell, it seems like she was the sole owner
00:13:17
operator, so there's like nobody else to cover. >> So, totally possible that he could have
00:13:21
missed her twice. And I say this because right about the same time as the second
00:13:25
visit, so this would have been about 12:40, we get a really firm sighting of Trevolene, a passerby sees her locking
00:13:32
up her shop, key in hand. I mean, if she had anything else on her, like a purse or whatever, it wasn't big enough for
00:13:37
anyone to notice. And they say she's heading in the direction of the town center, like where all of those
00:13:43
sightings were the day before. And then someone in town says that right about that same time is when she stops by the
00:13:50
local market and she buys an apple [music] and a banana. Now there is about a 2hour window where no one reports
00:13:57
[music] anything sightings or interactions in her store or out. And then at 2:30 p.m., this woman who is
00:14:06
familiar with Trevolene says that she spotted Trevolene near her own house. Like Trevolene's house, which same as
00:14:12
everything else, like we're still within walking distance. [music] I mean, if you're looking at a map,
00:14:16
basically you have like her shop on the right. You have the town center in the middle and then her house is just to a
00:14:22
little to the left of town center. Now, she doesn't see her go in or out of her house. She's just walking right near it,
00:14:28
heading back in the direction of town and the direction of her shop >> alone. >> Yeah, she's alone at this time. So, do
00:14:35
we think she's just like in and out of her shop a ton that day or is this back in 2 minutes just like her BRB sign?
00:14:43
Like I I'll be back at some point. 2 minutes doesn't really like discourage customers. Like it seems like a short
00:14:49
amount of time. >> So, this is what's so interesting to me. Well, two things actually. So, first she
00:14:54
had other signs that she would put up if she was going to be gone for longer, like be back in a half hour, back in 2
00:15:00
hours. >> So, like the 2 minutes is like specific for this situation. >> Yeah. So, if she went back, she could
00:15:06
have like quickly hung another sign to say that she was going to be out longer, but she didn't. And it's not like
00:15:11
something happened to her in 2 minutes after she left because we know she's like fine and well at 2:30.
00:15:17
>> So, she didn't come back. >> Well, this brings me to my second thing. Interestingly, the police find something
00:15:25
that maybe indicates she had made it back to the shop at some point after her 1240 trip into town to buy fruit. There
00:15:34
is a banana peel in the store's trash can. >> Like a fresh banana peel. >> Well, it's not fresh by the time they're
00:15:42
seeing it. Like, she's not even reported missing until like 10 hours after she purchased it. The shop is searched after
00:15:48
that. So, was it the same banana peel? can't tell you. I mean, people spent a lot of time pointing to this as a sign
00:15:55
that she made it back to the shop, but I'm like, then where's the apple? Like, nobody talks about the apple. Not even
00:16:01
mentioned. So, I'm assuming it was never found, but I don't know. And like, did they find the banana peel in her store,
00:16:07
but the apple or apple core was in her house? Like, there's never been any reporting about them searching
00:16:13
Traveling's house or what they found if they did. >> Yeah. And kind of like without the
00:16:17
apple, the banana doesn't mean anything. >> Not to me. Yeah. So, all that to say, a
00:16:21
lot of people think she came back because of the banana, but like I think that might just be a red herring.
00:16:25
[music] >> Now, this 12:30 sighting is regarded as the last confirmed sighting of
00:16:30
Trevolene. >> So, what could have happened to her in the 6-minute walk between her house and
00:16:37
her store on a bustling Saturday afternoon in a busy town center? Well, maybe some of the unconfirmed sightings
00:16:46
can point to that. Reporting in the leader says that 5 minutes after she was leaving her house, walking in the
00:16:52
direction of her shop, a woman matching her description was seen walking on the main road right off of market. It's
00:16:59
called A5. But this woman is walking in the opposite direction, like heading away from town. And then someone
00:17:06
matching her description is seen again around 3:45, even further down A5, farther away from town. So, if that
00:17:13
sighting is true, she could have walked away. >> Sure. But I mean, literally walk cuz she
00:17:21
left her stuff behind, including her car, which would have gotten her a lot farther a lot faster.
00:17:26
>> And there's one more unconfirmed sighting that will probably make you realize why all these last ones are
00:17:33
unconfirmed. A woman says that at 4:00 p.m. on Saturday, she might have spotted traveling inside her store, possibly
00:17:44
with a man, but she only caught a glimpse [music] in the store, so she can't be 100% sure of anything. So,
00:17:52
police end up not really considering this a fully credible sighting. But if it was her, if there was a man, it
00:18:00
actually might have been the younger man. if you remember him. >> Oh, the one at the gate at the other
00:18:06
shop. >> Yeah. So, all the sightings Friday and early Saturday were of the older,
00:18:10
smartly dressed man. But just before 6 p.m., there was a woman driving past Traveling Shop and she said that there
00:18:17
was a younger man in a trench coat standing outside the antique shop looking suspicious and she thinks thinks
00:18:25
maybe that the door to Trevolene shop was open. Now, to be clear, we never get a sketch of this guy, and nobody says
00:18:33
that he's the same younger man as the one from two days before. Like, to me, it's just it's odd.
00:18:37
>> And you said the store was locked when her husband found it, right? Or like the
00:18:41
front door was locked at least, >> right? And he didn't have an extra key. He only ended up getting in because he
00:18:45
went around to the back where that door was open, >> which by the way, that's kind of a red
00:18:50
flag, right? >> It seems like it to me. Like, if you left your antique shop unattended and
00:18:53
you're going to take the time to lock up when you leave, >> like lock up when you leave then.
00:18:58
Exactly. Like I keep having this gnawing feeling [music] that maybe she did make it back to the
00:19:03
shop and then something happened there. Maybe the banana peel really is the one that she bought at lunch. Maybe that's
00:19:10
why her compact was out and open like she was touching up like she got interrupted. Something happened and she
00:19:17
was taken out the back. And maybe the back in 2 minutes sign was put up because it was just the one that was
00:19:24
sitting out and someone just like threw that sign up because it was right there in her handwriting like they were just
00:19:30
trying to buy themselves some time. >> And I don't know, there's just a lot that doesn't add up if Trevolene just
00:19:36
walked away, which is maybe one of the many reasons why pretty early on police openly say that they suspect foul play.
00:19:43
And they say something really specific to a reporter with the Daily Post in November of 1991. A senior detective
00:19:50
says that he believes she was abducted and murdered, possibly after getting into a car with someone she knew. I
00:19:57
don't know where the car thing comes from. I like I think there's loads about this case that have never been shared,
00:20:04
but there is one other report I can maybe tie this back to. I didn't include this in the timeline even with the other
00:20:10
unconfirmed sightings because those at least were reported and then re-reported a few times. This one I only found one
00:20:17
time in an article from the Daily Telegraph dated July 13th, [music] 1992. And this one says that after she was
00:20:24
seen walking away from town, so this would have been that 230 sighting or maybe the 345, but more likely the 230.
00:20:31
>> After that, two people saw a woman who they say looked like Trevolene in the passenger seat of a car leaving town.
00:20:39
And at least one of the people who saw this said that the woman looked upset. So that's what we know. Okay,
00:20:46
>> let's talk theories. What happened to Trevalene? What and who kept her from coming back
00:20:53
in those 2 minutes? Well, the obvious place to start is with the mystery man. Police soon begin to wonder if Trevolene
00:21:04
met with Foul Play at the hands of the smartly dressed man. Because try as they might, they could not identify this
00:21:12
mystery man. So, why wouldn't he come forward unless he had something to hide? Which, by the way, it's not like this
00:21:20
story [music] was easy to hide from. Local news outlets were all over this. And then you had Crime Watch come in and
00:21:25
take the story to an even bigger stage. So, in the first year, this mystery man sketch was everywhere.
00:21:32
>> And still, nobody comes forward to say like they even know who he is. >> Well, he just doesn't come forward. I
00:21:39
mean, they get plenty of calls from people who think that they might know the guy's identity. I mean, at least one
00:21:43
person suspects that it might be this other antique dealer who was in town that [music] day, which honestly would
00:21:49
make so much sense. Like, we know she often goes out to buy antiques. We know she had money on her that day.
00:21:54
>> Yeah. Like, maybe she just had sold something or was about to purchase something.
00:21:58
>> Yeah. It seems like the most logical solution, but all the names of antique dealers that they get put forward to
00:22:04
them, like they're able to quickly look into and rule out, which I I kind of don't buy the dealer thing like like if
00:22:11
this guy was just there to sell her something, why would he have hung around with her for like 2 days and like what
00:22:17
the goal is to take that wad of money she was carrying with her on Saturday? Like I guess I don't like why so long.
00:22:24
Or maybe there was like something from her store and he's trying to like get her comfortable. Maybe he was a buyer. I
00:22:30
don't know if there was ever like a full inventory of the items that she [music]
00:22:34
had in stock or like things that she was expecting. So, I don't think we have specific things missing or anything.
00:22:40
Like again, this is just a possibility and one that police really buy into for a while. I mean, a bunch of news reports
00:22:46
have them [music] saying that they think the smartly dressed man could be in the
00:22:49
antiques world. And they even imply that the way he was dressed had to have had him there on business because one
00:22:54
detective told a paper like, I mean, think about it. It's Saturday. Most people have this day off. Why is this
00:23:00
dude still in a suit with a briefcase? >> Unless he's like there conducting business.
00:23:04
>> Exactly. But they go through that world pretty thoroughly and they don't find
00:23:09
this guy. So, mystery man probably not in the antiques world after all. >> So, call me cynical, which you do a lot.
00:23:17
>> Yeah, obviously. [laughter] >> But cynical crime junkies, it's like the same thing.
00:23:21
>> But isn't an affair like an equally likely possibility? Her husband's out of town. She's seen around town with this
00:23:28
other guy who like, >> yeah, >> I don't know. He's not running to the police to give his story. It just like
00:23:33
has me very side eye. The rumor mill in this small town is definitely churning and it seems like there was some gossip
00:23:40
that maybe Trevolene was having an affair or affairs plural, but police never speak on this publicly. I mean,
00:23:48
people are actually quite careful in news reports to just say that she had a lot of friends, both male and female.
00:23:53
[music] Like, that's it. But let's speculate for a second. What if she was having an affair? And what if she was
00:23:59
seeing this man while her husband was away working on their retirement home? Something went south. Lord only knows
00:24:05
what, but police keep calling this a murder investigation, so let's call it what it is. Was he from out of town?
00:24:11
Like, it's wild to me that nobody would have seen this man before with her. >> Like, just in the couple of days leading
00:24:17
up to her disappearance. >> Okay, fine. Maybe. But they have never tied this mystery man to a lover. And
00:24:24
also, like, this woman is everywhere with this man. Like, if this is an affair, she is not hiding it,
00:24:29
>> right? Like she's seeing people who know her that are like saying, "Oh, she usually would have hit." Like she waved.
00:24:34
She usually would have waved. Like we know this woman. >> They're out and about on town together.
00:24:38
Like something about this man being a lover does just doesn't feel right to me. >> I mean, unless she was just totally
00:24:46
checked out of her marriage. I mean, if she's planning on running off with this guy before Richard comes back into town,
00:24:53
maybe who cares who sees you? Maybe you're leaving breadcrumbs for your family so like they don't have to wonder
00:24:58
where you went or if you're by yourself or whatever. >> But then take your stuff with you,
00:25:02
right? Yeah. Make a phone call when they don't get the hint. And your story is national news.
00:25:07
>> Yes. >> And for those who know her, leaving them without answers is the part that doesn't
00:25:11
add up more than anything else. Like I said, I mean, for the first few years, like her son Richard was adamant [music]
00:25:17
that his mom would not have left on her own. >> First few years, did he end up changing
00:25:21
his tune? >> No. So tragically, like nine years after she went missing, he actually died of a
00:25:27
heart attack. I mean, he was really young, 37. God, but one of Trevaline's brothers, Len, he's been really vocal in
00:25:34
her son, Richard's place. >> He doesn't see a world where his sister just up and leaves without a word. And
00:25:40
listen, I came into this case fresh off of listening to there's this podcast called The Vanishing of Janice Rose. So
00:25:45
like, I had a really solid example of what leaving a life looked like. and all the people left behind who swore like
00:25:52
that you never would. But I mean it could be the case here. Like what do they know? Like
00:25:57
>> I mean might not be anything more than we do. Even though it's always a possibility that she ran off without
00:26:03
taking anything with her. Statistically, it's not probable. Like it's so unlikely.
00:26:09
>> So then did Mystery Man kill her? >> To me, that's the only reason that he wouldn't come forward. He's either with
00:26:17
her or he did something to her or he helped her get away. Listen, this is like a little fringe. I'm literally like
00:26:25
making up it as I go, but there are like some weird pieces to this that I [music]
00:26:30
don't think get enough weight. So, for 10 years, they're looking for Mystery Man. They get nothing. Trevaline just
00:26:39
poof vanished into thin air. But then something weird happens. In 2001, police form something like a little task
00:26:48
force to re-examine this cold case. One room, 10 officers, all dedicated to tracking Trevalines's movements in the 3
00:26:55
days before she vanished. >> It kind of sounds like writing a Crime Junkie episode.
00:26:58
>> Exactly. [laughter] And from this, they drop a bombshell. They say the sketch of Mystery Man
00:27:08
should be ignored. What? >> Yeah, they give us nothing as to what happened, why the sketch is wrong, what
00:27:17
about it is wrong. >> Just like just kidding, disregard. >> Well, yeah. Here's what's so weird. Lots
00:27:23
of people will talk about this case in a way that implies mystery man is no longer important.
00:27:29
>> But that's not what I read. Nobody says he's not involved or he's no longer important to the case. They just say
00:27:36
that the sketch is inaccurate. I have a list of follow-up questions because >> they had so many witnesses.
00:27:46
>> I know. So, was the sketch just wrong and a decade on they don't have much hope for witnesses giving them something
00:27:52
useful or did they ID him but he turned out to not be important? And again, to be clear,
00:28:02
that is not what they're saying. >> Wait, they're not saying anything, >> right? But many years later when the
00:28:09
documentary In the Footsteps of Killers is produced or they do a single episode on this case,
00:28:15
>> a woman named Linda is interviewed and she says that shortly after Trevolene went missing, she began dating one of
00:28:22
Trevalene's brothers, Phil. They were together for like 5 years following the time she disappeared. And when she's
00:28:29
being interviewed, she's like, I don't know what all this mystery man talk is all about. That man, that sketch is
00:28:35
without a doubt her brother, Phil. >> Wait, what? I'm confused. >> Girl, me, too.
00:28:41
>> How would [laughter] no one know it was her brother? >> So, Trevaline has two brothers, right?
00:28:46
Len and Phil. >> Okay. >> Len lived in town, but Phil traveled for work a ton, apparently. So, locals
00:28:53
probably wouldn't recognize [music] him. >> Mystery. Got it. >> Yeah. But in an article I found, it says
00:28:57
that he was in town that week from Switzerland. And listen, the side byside pictures of them are interesting.
00:29:07
>> Oh. Uh, that's the same man. Yeah. Okay. And in every picture that this ex is
00:29:13
showing in that episode, Phil is in a dark suit jacket. I mean, honestly, this makes sense to me. She's all over
00:29:23
town with this guy. Doesn't really add up for a secret love affair. Like, >> nothing to hide your brother. Yeah,
00:29:29
there's nothing to hide if it's just your brother. >> So, if it's true, she could have walked
00:29:34
away. >> The problem I have though with this, okay, it it's Phil. How is this not
00:29:39
confirmed? Like, Phil had to have heard about Mystery Man. He had to have mentioned to police all the times that
00:29:47
he saw her when he was in town. if that was him like >> because that would be like very very
00:29:52
solidly confirmed sightings because like her brother >> is with her the whole time,
00:29:58
>> right? Like like in my mind I'm like if like again Linda is like oh this is for
00:30:01
sure her brother and I'm like I feel like police would know that. So is this terrible police work and also her
00:30:08
brother Phil is living under a rock or my only third option for mystery man. What if she didn't leave with him at
00:30:17
all? What if he just helped her leave? And listen, I'll admit this one is the most far-fetched, but if mystery man is
00:30:24
Phil, and this wasn't the most bungled investigation of all time, that is the only thing that makes sense to me. The
00:30:32
only reason he would be the guy who's seen with her over and over for days, but then not admit it is if he knows
00:30:40
where she is or is hiding her or helped her or something >> and is like protecting her
00:30:45
by not saying anything. >> Yes. question mark. I don't you know what I mean? Like it's the only thing
00:30:49
that like it's the only way Phil makes sense to me. >> Okay. Where's Phil now? Can't please just talk
00:30:57
to him? >> No. Bill is Phil's dead now. >> Okay. I only have more questions. >> I know.
00:31:05
>> If it was him, if she did leave willingly, whether he helped her or not, what's the why? Like why is she walking
00:31:13
away from her whole life? Like with his help or [music] without it? There's no good explanation for that. I mean, all
00:31:18
of the reporting talks about her being in this happy marriage. She just opened this shop within like the last couple of
00:31:24
years. She's planning for retirement, new little house, >> new grandbaby. On paper, life is 10 out
00:31:30
of 10. But the other bombshell that Phil's ex dropped in that In the Footsteps of Killers episode
00:31:39
is she says none of that is true. That Trevolene wasn't happy. And she says that Richard wasn't all that nice of a
00:31:49
guy. So, I don't know, maybe now that her son was married, had a family of his own, she wanted out while she still had
00:31:57
some life to live. But just get divorced. I mean, it seems like a way easier solution if that's what she
00:32:04
wanted. But maybe it wasn't an option. >> Or maybe she just didn't want to go that
00:32:09
route. Barring a situation where she was afraid of Richard, I would think that she'd want to take
00:32:17
some stuff with her to start over, like money, her car, maybe she had someone else who was helping her, all of Phil or
00:32:24
a lover who is or isn't our mystery man. Or maybe she'd been preparing for this.
00:32:30
I mean, remember, so there were those rumors of an affair where multiples affairs in town or whatever. Well, in
00:32:36
the In the Footsteps of Killers episode, they actually talk of at least one affair, like it is a sure thing. And
00:32:44
they say they learned she had actually gotten an inheritance of like £10,000 from a man that she'd been having an
00:32:51
affair with who passed away. Now, I don't know when that was or if that money was still accounted for, but like
00:32:58
if true, pretty interesting in my book. >> Yeah, that that does kind of change things. But again, I think part of the
00:33:04
reason I'm like, was it is because it doesn't seem to change things for police. They say Travalene was met with
00:33:11
some sort of foul play at the hands of someone she knew, which makes me go back to, did they do a terrible job the first
00:33:19
time around? [music] Either ignore this or not dig deep enough to learn this, or
00:33:25
maybe, like I said before, maybe it's not that interesting as the like documentary or the episode presents it
00:33:31
to be. So, if this inheritance thing is real, I imagine Richard had to have known about it, right? Like, I can't
00:33:39
imagine that went over well. He might have. I mean, maybe that's why he seems so willing to accept that she just left.
00:33:48
I mean, Richard consistently is the one who talks to Travalene in early news reports, like as though she's alive,
00:33:55
asking her to come home, implying that she left on her own, while her son and her brother like don't even seem to
00:34:01
entertain the idea. But if you believe that, if if Richard believed that she left, if he knew, like, why not allude
00:34:09
to the fact that she had a reason to go instead of saying that you guys had like
00:34:13
this great happy life, happy marriage or whatever? I mean to save face >> maybe. But there's another reason you do
00:34:19
that too. If you want to divert attention, which brings me to theory number three.
00:34:27
What if Richard did something to his wife? Going back to 2001, after they brought
00:34:34
that group of investigators together, this is the same time that they said the sketch is inaccurate.
00:34:40
They also arrest Richard. Oh. I'm sorry. You could have led with that. >> Well, I'll tell you why I didn't.
00:34:50
According to the BBC, after some questioning, Richard is released that same day without facing any charges.
00:34:57
Police never call him a suspect. They also never explicitly say that he's cleared. The only official statement we
00:35:03
could find is that according to the BBC, they released him, quote, pending further inquiries. And if they ever
00:35:10
questioned him again, it again didn't result in any charges now. The timing sure feels suspect to me.
00:35:20
>> Yeah, I mean, you can see my face. [laughter] >> Like, hey, this picture we said was so
00:35:25
important for a decade. >> Forget about that. >> Probably not accurate. Husband is
00:35:29
arrested. >> The timing feels calculated. [music] >> Yeah. To me at least, it feels very like hint
00:35:40
hint, wink wink. This is the direction we're looking without actually saying anybody is
00:35:48
officially anything. >> I can't put words in police's mouth. I can only tell you what they did,
00:35:53
>> okay? >> Because they never say anything about Richard and I don't have access to the
00:35:58
police file. I can't tell you what they were thinking or even like I would die to know what came to the questioning or
00:36:05
like what questions they asked. >> I mean to be a fly on that wall and listen I have zero evidence backing this
00:36:11
up but I wonder if in 2001 like could they have talked to Phil's ex for the first time?
00:36:18
>> Like it makes sense to me that she would have never been spoken to early on because it seems like they met right
00:36:23
after Trevolene went missing >> she didn't know Trevaline. >> Yeah. So day one investigators miss her.
00:36:27
Even people a couple of months on are like, "Oh, like why would this new girlfriend who wasn't even around have
00:36:31
anything?" Like just skip her. >> Yeah. >> But if she got in touch with investigators 10, 11 years on and
00:36:37
started telling them things, the two bombs that she drops in that episode would explain to me the exact two things
00:36:44
that happened, right? >> Thousand%. >> Bomb one, she says, "I think mystery man is Phil."
00:36:49
>> Picture [music] gone. >> And then bomb two, I didn't tell you the whole thing. Yes, she said that their
00:36:54
marriage wasn't great. Whatever. ever. She also said that sometime after Traveline disappeared, furniture and
00:37:00
carpet were [music] moved out of Trevaline and Richard's home. Wait, but how does she know this?
00:37:08
>> Bill told her about the carpet and furniture and the two of them thought that it was so weird because
00:37:15
if you still think your wife is going to come back, you're talking to her. >> I say you're asking her to come back in
00:37:20
the news. >> Yeah. Getting rid of a bunch of stuff in your house is probably going to be a
00:37:23
shock to her. like is now really the time? >> And when was he supposedly doing this?
00:37:28
Like was he like was he moving it to the retirement house? Maybe. >> No. No. Cuz he never ends up moving to
00:37:35
the retirement house. He ends up selling it and he ends up converting her antique
00:37:39
shop to a residential housing like rents it out. So I mean I guess TBD timing maybe he was moving some of the
00:37:46
furniture to the shop to furnish the apartment. I don't know. And I don't know exactly when the girlfriend heard
00:37:53
about this or like when this exactly was supposed to happen. I just know shortly
00:37:56
after she went missing. She also says that after her and Phil were together, Richard would come by the pub that she
00:38:02
worked at to talk to her. And looking back, she thinks that he was trying to find out what she knew or what
00:38:10
Trevaline's brothers were maybe talking to her about. >> Like a temperature check.
00:38:14
>> Yeah. But she said it was so weird cuz like in all the times that he did talk
00:38:18
to her, he showed no emotion. Never asked questions, never said that he loved his wife, missed his wife, which
00:38:24
she found weird. But I don't know. So here's the thing. Like I know I teed this up being like, you know, her two
00:38:29
things, Phil is mystery man, Richard removing carpet furniture >> and like them not being happy.
00:38:33
>> Yeah, maybe those two things explain what police did in 2001. But I also can't make those two things
00:38:40
work together. Phil as mystery man only makes sense to me if he was like helping
00:38:46
Trevaline get away, right? Which no one ever suggests to be true. But then if he
00:38:50
helped her get away, why is Richard moving furniture? >> Then Richard has nothing to do with it.
00:38:56
>> Yeah. And and even if he did that, it's not suspicious. Like >> it has nothing to do with
00:39:01
>> this case makes no sense. I mean, you see why police is calling this one of the most confusing cases their
00:39:06
department has ever worked, ever seen. Okay, can we just like pause for a second and like go down a path with me?
00:39:13
If Richard is involved in some way, like break it down. Is his alibi of being out
00:39:18
of town bogus? I'm not going to go down a path with you. I'm going to take you down the rabbit hole with me.
00:39:24
>> Let's go. >> So, Richard is supposed to be in Rudd, right? An hour away. Police had initially reported that he
00:39:32
didn't get back until 5:00 p.m. And I read somewhere that workers could confirm that he was at this bungalow
00:39:38
where the work was being done, but I I only saw that in like one article. And there was some stuff even saying that
00:39:44
Richard and Trevalene only had one car. So, he like couldn't have gotten back. But like in my mind, I'm like,
00:39:50
>> but he did because he got shot. >> Whether it's at 5 or whatever, we know he gets back. Like maybe he got a ride.
00:39:55
I don't know. But anyways, if he's not back until 5, he's in the clear since everyone
00:40:01
believes something happened to her around 2:30 when she was last seen near her house.
00:40:06
>> Well, fast freaking forward. At some point, there are changes in news reports
00:40:13
about when Richard gets home without any real explanation as to why all of a sudden it's changed. Sometimes people
00:40:20
call it lunchtime that he's back. In that TV episode I was talking about, they get more specific and say that a
00:40:25
police source told them Richard was seen at a local pub at 2:30. >> 2:30? Like exactly when she goes
00:40:32
missing? >> Yes. Now, a bunch of blogs that I've seen go on the other extreme and they
00:40:38
say that he was for sure in Rland and actually he kept calling the house and the shop and when he couldn't get her,
00:40:44
he called a neighbor. And a neighbor is the one who actually first realizes the shop is unlocked. and they call him, he
00:40:51
calls police from Rland, so he's not even making the call from there. But like, for the life of me, I have no idea
00:40:56
where they're getting that information because nothing I've seen in like official news reporting comes even close
00:41:02
to that version. But if he was there the whole time calling on a neighbor, again,
00:41:07
I'm sure that puts him in the clear, or at least in my mind, >> without knowing the timing of the calls,
00:41:12
I can't say if he did or didn't have time to go back and forth between his bungalow and their home. Did they ever
00:41:18
do any of the searches for her up where the bungalow was? >> Yes, but not when or why you might
00:41:26
think. And really, this is when and where our case becomes active like in present day and gets exceptionally
00:41:36
more weird. So, before I tell you what I'm about to tell you, let me set the stage a little bit. So, there's this
00:41:44
wild tip that police get in March 2019. Based on all the reporting that was out there before, it seemed like these two
00:41:51
men got a tip given to them that led them to believe they knew where Trevaline's body was. And a ton happens
00:41:58
after this. Police search, they don't find anything. Then something even stranger happens. And then like a lot of
00:42:05
people just end up writing these guys off like, "Oh, they're just making it up."
00:42:10
But when I was looking at this case, I'm like, why? Like, they have no connection
00:42:14
to Trevalene, no reason to be doing this. They don't gain anything. And they are still so convinced that their
00:42:21
information is right. They say they have pictures, but of course, the pictures aren't published anywhere. So,
00:42:28
obviously, I need to get my hands on those pictures. And what I really wanted to know is where did this tip originate
00:42:35
from? Like, that is never reported on. And to me, it feels pretty important. Like, can I solve Trevolene's case from
00:42:43
another country? Probably not. But am I going to try? >> 1,000%. >> I couldn't call myself a crime junkie if
00:42:49
I didn't. And this felt like the one place I knew I might actually get answers because unlike the rest of this
00:42:55
story where everyone I wanted to talk to has already passed and can't give me the
00:42:59
details I need. These two brothers, Andrew Sutton, an accountant, and Lee Sutton, a carpenter, they're still alive
00:43:06
and have connections to this little place you might have heard of for the first time today, Ruddland. So, I asked
00:43:14
our reporter, Taylor Harts, to track them down and ask them how this tip came out. And this is a story that in
00:43:21
Andrew's own words is stranger than fiction. So get ready. Andrew Sutton told us that in 2019, his brother Lee,
00:43:31
Lee's the carpenter, >> he was doing some construction work on a bungalow in Rland. [music] And when Lee
00:43:37
mentions this to Andrew, Andrew thinks of Travalene. Her case is like local lore in North Wales. And when Andrew
00:43:44
hears bungalow in Ruddland, like to him there is only one bungalow in Rland. Obviously that's not true. So not
00:43:52
surprising when Lee brings it up to the owner and he's like, "No, no, no. This isn't the same bungalow that Trevaline
00:43:58
and Richard owned." >> But actually, this guy that he's talking to remembers the case well, too. And he
00:44:04
said that Richard used to spend quite a lot of time at the same bar that this guy did at the Rland Golf Club, which
00:44:12
like nothing burger to Lee, right? Like he Lee didn't really know about this case. Like he's like, "Okay, cool." He
00:44:16
goes on with his day. >> But as he's packing up at the end of the day, he's making small talk with this
00:44:22
guy asking him like, "Oh, well, do you still go to that pub at the golf club?" And the guy's like, "No, you know, I
00:44:29
actually stopped going to Rland Golf Club because it started to smell inside." And Lee said in that moment, he
00:44:37
literally dropped whatever was in his hand because he had heard that before. So he said back in 1990, young buck in
00:44:46
his 20s, he was in the construction trade then like he is later, but he says back then he did work for this older guy
00:44:53
and every day this guy did lunch at the golf club. Now this guy again, he seems to be retired or whatever and Lee said
00:44:59
that he used to work at the golf club back in the day. So this was like his spot. Lee knew his routine. He would
00:45:06
leave, he'd be gone for about an hour or so for lunch, come back. Well, one day in 1990, he leaves for his lunch at the
00:45:14
club, but he's back within like 15 minutes. So Lee's like, why back so soon? And this guy said that there was
00:45:21
this terrible smell in the building. He like could not take it. Now he confirmed
00:45:27
guy in 1990 and guy in 2019 did not know each other. Like he asked 2019 guy. So he's got two separate people over the
00:45:36
course of almost 30 years telling him about this horrible smell at the club in the summer of 1990. Now his brother
00:45:42
Andrew Sutton told us that 2019 guy said it wasn't just him that was bothered by
00:45:47
the smell. A lot of people were complaining about it. So much so that they complained to staff at the golf
00:45:53
club. And he said the golf club was adding an extension at the time. So employees reached out to the contractors
00:45:59
and the contractors were basically like h you know an animal must have just like
00:46:03
gotten in under the floorboards and died. And >> is that where the snow was coming from?
00:46:08
Like is it where the construction was? >> So no, that's the weird part. But like
00:46:13
from what they were hearing it was just like nobody wanted to deal. They were kind of all satisfied saying like listen
00:46:17
had to be an animal that died. It's decomposing. Yes, the smell is horrible but it's eventually just going to go
00:46:22
away on its own. So, as you can imagine, after Lee hears this, he immediately calls his brother and is like, "Hey, I
00:46:32
asked about that bungalow, not the one you're thinking of, but you're never going to believe this." And both of them
00:46:40
are just kind of like stunned. So, they decide to go on a field trip. [laughter] Like, they got to see this
00:46:46
thing for themselves, right? Like cuz there's no way two random brothers, one who'd never even heard about the case,
00:46:53
they're not going to find something that police haven't. But what if? >> Again, this is like sounding like the
00:47:00
creation of a crime episode. [laughter] >> So, in the most responsible fashion, they actually go to police first. They
00:47:07
make sure that they have this information to check it out, and then they wait. Surely, there's going to be a
00:47:13
search or they're going to hear something back. Hey, FYI. We looked into it. It's nothing. Like, thanks for the
00:47:18
tip. But they don't. Even when they try following up with police, police are like, "Listen, we may look into it. We
00:47:26
may not. It's like not your problem to worry about. Bye." Which isn't enough for them.
00:47:31
>> Like, they got to be in their bonnet about this thing now. Because Lee has been catching up on Trevaline's case in
00:47:36
this time. He watched the Crime Watch special that was filmed within 2 months of Trevoline going missing. And he sure
00:47:44
didn't like how Richard, who by the way is already dead in 2019 when all this is
00:47:49
happening. Lee doesn't like how Richard keeps slipping into past tense now and then talking about his missing wife,
00:47:57
>> which like we've seen before and it always makes me side eye cuz like you would have to consciously correct
00:48:04
yourself if you knew something like >> I know and I honestly when I first watched it like and I'm like the crime
00:48:10
junkie. I didn't even pick up on the past tense thing my first go around. The thing that like really kind of drove me
00:48:17
up a wall is I noticed that in all of Richard's interviews, he anytime he like talks about the police investigation,
00:48:25
he's like praising them like they did everything they could. Like they're doing a great job. And maybe they did.
00:48:32
I'm just saying I've never seen a case where a missing person is never found over decades and the family is like, you
00:48:39
did all you could do. Like there was like >> I'm not saying there's there's a first
00:48:43
time for everything. >> There's you but like there's usually like some hesitation, some like
00:48:48
questions. >> What else could we have done? Like we could we could have done this earlier.
00:48:51
We should explore other options. But like the >> But anyways, all that to say like
00:48:56
they're honing in on their own things and the Sutton brothers are not [music] going to let this go. I don't know if
00:49:00
they would have called themselves crime junkies before, but Lee and Andrew, you are crime junkies. So, at some point,
00:49:06
Lee decides to go take a look at this floor for himself. Like, what's what? Could a body be down there? Could it
00:49:14
just be an animal? And when he does, he doesn't think that there's any way an animal could have gotten under this
00:49:21
floor accidentally and died causing this smell. He thinks the only way something
00:49:26
dead wound up under those floorboards would be if it was put there by someone. and they are going to figure out what it
00:49:34
is if it is the last thing they do and they know exactly how. So, this building has an air brick right near where this
00:49:42
smell originated from. And I actually had to look up. I didn't know what an air brick was.
00:49:46
>> It is exactly what it sounds. It's like shaped like a brick, but it has holes.
00:49:51
So, like it's vented. >> Go through it. >> Yes. Right there in the name, Ashley.
00:49:56
[laughter] Now, the holes are too small to actually see anything. and it's obviously like dark under there, but
00:50:00
Andrew knows a tool that they can use. So, one Saturday morning in March of 2019, they go to a hardware store and
00:50:07
they buy a Stanley fiber optic LED inspection camera, which is basically this tiny little thing that you hold. It
00:50:14
has a screen on the front and then it's like a little um tube, >> like a scope. >> Yeah, that's the word, man. Today, uh so
00:50:22
it has this little scope so you can put it in tiny holes. Okay, so they buy this, they go straight to the golf club,
00:50:28
specifically the bar, and they're like sitting there inside like putting the batteries in, playing around with it,
00:50:32
figuring out how it worked and coming up with a little white lie because they felt like if they told the people at the
00:50:39
club that they're going to go hunting around for a dead body, like >> might not be welcome at the club.
00:50:43
>> Yeah. They're not going to be super into it. So when the guy at the club is like,
00:50:46
"Oh, what are you doing with that?" They make up a story and one of them is like,
00:50:49
"Oh, you know, my brother's going to buy this house and I want to check that the
00:50:52
floors haven't like brought it out or whatever. Do you mind if I just test it out here?" And the guy's like, "Sure,
00:50:58
whatever. Go for it." Okay, I am going to show you the pictures. These have never been published before anywhere in
00:51:04
the world. And this is what they see seconds after putting the camera through the air vent.
00:51:13
Oh my god. I wish the quality was better here. The Stanley camera doesn't record it. Like
00:51:21
that camera thing on it is just a viewer. Yeah. So, what you're looking at is pictures that the brothers took of
00:51:28
like the view screen or whatever. >> Okay. >> But I don't need it to be any clearer.
00:51:34
Ashley, I I think I'm looking at a human skeleton. >> I know. And even like the printouts I
00:51:39
feel like don't do it justice. The second I saw it, I feel like skull, eyes, spine. Mhm.
00:51:46
>> There's like maybe a hole in the skull. >> It actually that's like more pronounced
00:51:50
when you print it out. >> I mean, like I don't know. I looked at this and I saw it instant the same way
00:51:56
that I think that they did. I saw it instantly. >> I was a little surprised that apparently
00:52:01
uh our so our reporter saw it too. Um so did another reporter we have who's a former detective, but apparently
00:52:06
everyone else in the office like didn't they were like, "Oh yeah, no, there's nothing there."
00:52:11
Yeah. So, like if I don't know if I'm the one who's like losing it or >> it's also one of those things like am I
00:52:17
being biased >> like I I know what I'm looking for so I'm seeing it. One of those things. But
00:52:24
I mean what? It doesn't look like anything else. At least not to me. And listen, I
00:52:31
told you these have never been published anywhere before. Even though these men have talked to news outlets.
00:52:37
>> Wait, why not? >> I don't know. Like when we talked to Lee, he said that they tried to get
00:52:42
these pictures out there. Like they've had interviews scheduled with other reporters who've just ghosted them. And
00:52:48
then when they did a sit down with one journalist who actually heard them out, they never ended up publishing anything.
00:52:53
So Lee says they feel like they just keep like hitting brick wall after brick wall until we called. They gave the
00:53:00
photos to us. No problem. I mean, they're dying for someone to take them more seriously, which so it makes no
00:53:05
sense to me. I mean, obviously, I haven't been able to authenticate the photos. I asked the brothers if any
00:53:12
other people have tried and they said [music] no. And truly, when they were, you know, first talking about this with
00:53:17
us, like I and I hadn't seen the photos. I was like, you know what? These are going to be so vague. You're probably
00:53:21
not going to be able to see anything. That's why everyone writes them off and doesn't publish these pictures.
00:53:26
>> But then I see what's there and I'm like, >> what are we doing here, people? So,
00:53:32
okay, back to the story. They stick the scope down the air brick. They see this.
00:53:39
What do they do then? >> Well, they're in shock for a minute, as you can imagine. But they leave. So,
00:53:46
they said that they left. It was like a weekend and for like the weekend they're
00:53:51
like staring at these pictures like this can't be real, but like they really felt
00:53:56
like it was real. >> So, they took the pictures on March 14th. On March 19th, they come back to
00:54:02
the golf club and they tell the people at the club what it is they found and they need to call police. And Lee says
00:54:09
that the guy that they were telling this to at the club just quote went [music] to pieces and was like, "Well, how do
00:54:16
you know? Who is it? How long has she been there?" And we obviously said, he's like, you know, I don't I don't know.
00:54:21
Like, we just know our what our photos show. There appears to be a body under the floor.
00:54:26
>> He said at that point there was this other woman who appeared. She seemed to be in charge at the golf club as well.
00:54:31
And Lee said that she was asking about how this might affect their business. Now, we tried calling the golf club
00:54:37
ourselves to ask a manager about how all of this went down. But when we did, the
00:54:43
manager was already gone for the day or out of the office or in London, and they
00:54:47
have not called us back yet. But we do know that staff at the golf club and the Sutton brothers called police when
00:54:55
Andrew and Lee showed them the photos. And Andrew says that within a half hour, a large number of officers from Northern
00:55:03
Wales PD show up. They show them where they think the body is, show them the pictures, and Lee says that he followed
00:55:10
police inside to this room right above where they spotted the body. And guess what's on the floor? This trap door.
00:55:19
It's like 2 ft by 3 ftish, [music] they estimate, but there's this big heavy freezer over part of it. and Lee got a
00:55:27
chance to get on the floor and really get like a good [music] look at it. And here's the really interesting part. He
00:55:34
said that it looked like it had not been opened in a long time. >> I think the interesting part is that
00:55:40
police are just letting him examine this with them. >> Uh I think he like snuck in. I guess he
00:55:46
was wearing something that like maybe similar to what you might be wearing if you're actually going to go in that
00:55:49
crawl space to collect the body. And there were like so many people he kind of just like slipped right in there. But
00:55:55
once they realized who he was, they did kick him out. >> But importantly, he said that as he's
00:56:00
leaving, he can hear them like prying the door open and he could hear the nails screeching in a way that you only
00:56:08
hear when something is like decades old. So, >> and he's the the carpenter brother,
00:56:12
right? So, like he kind of knows what he's talking about here. >> Yeah. And he's like I'm walking out and
00:56:15
I'm like this is it. They're going to find her. But this is like when he's getting shued out. So, they make him go
00:56:20
outside where Andrew was waiting. And then they're moved even farther away from where the work is being done. And
00:56:27
it's weird. This officer who is leading them away, Lee says that he says the strangest thing to him. He says that
00:56:34
their photos would never hold up in court. >> And Lee's like court? Like who's talking
00:56:40
about court? Like what? >> It's just weird. >> But I don't know in the moment whatever.
00:56:46
So, they're in the clubhouse just waiting and the officer in charge comes back to [music] Lee and Andrew and says,
00:56:54
"Hey, we want you to put your camera back in. Just like see what you can see." So, they go back, they put their
00:57:01
camera back in, and this is what they see. Where'd it go? >> Where' what go? Don't do that. Where's the skeleton?
00:57:14
Police say there never was a skeleton. They say they found nothing. Now, that's what we get in the official
00:57:22
reporting when police talked to news outlets. We searched, we found nothing. Andrew and Lee told us though that as
00:57:30
they were pulling the camera out, I mean, confused as hell about what was going on.
00:57:36
>> Yeah. >> They said, like again, as it's coming out, they spot something. a bone maybe
00:57:42
like 10 inches long. And Lee starts getting all excited. He's like, "There, okay, do you see this?" Yeah. And he
00:57:47
shows the camera to the detective inspector and they get no explanation. Like nothing. They are just asked to
00:57:54
leave, go to the station for statements, which they do. They go, they give statements and they leave thinking that
00:58:00
they're going to hear something about the bone that they saw all together. But they don't. The next day they just get a
00:58:07
call and police say [music] there is nobody. >> But then then what am I looking at back
00:58:14
here? What is that? >> Feel crazy. >> Yeah, >> the brothers feel crazy. Like I said
00:58:19
before, they've met with reporters. They've met with people who the ones who did that like episode on this case, but
00:58:25
they feel like they're screaming into the void. Yeah, Ashley, there was a body there. According to police, there was
00:58:33
not. But if these pictures are real, then >> then then I would think someone moved
00:58:40
her body and that's exactly what the Sutton brothers think happened specifically. They think someone in the
00:58:48
police department removed it. They're pretty vocal about this theory [music] and Lee posts about it all the time on
00:58:54
his social media, but of course I mean there's no real evidence to support this and we
00:58:59
>> like there's if there's no body, there's nobody to remove >> and we don't have a statement from the
00:59:04
police department on [music] this. So like why the police though? My first thought went to someone at the golf
00:59:11
club. I mean, there was like four or five days between them putting the scope down, taking the pictures, and then when
00:59:18
they go back to call police. >> It seems like that that's what seemed like the obvious answer to me. But I
00:59:23
mean, in talking to the brothers, like what makes them so convinced of their theory is they
00:59:29
always point back to the trap door. They say that there's absolutely no other way
00:59:33
to get to that spot where they think the skeleton was other than the trap door. M
00:59:38
>> and Lee is adamant that when he saw that trap door and heard it being removed, he
00:59:42
knew that that thing had been shut tight when police opened it and that when they're opening it, that was the first
00:59:47
time that that had been done in like decades. >> But how would they remove a skeleton
00:59:52
with all of those people there? I mean, you said there was like a crowd, >> dude, with no one noticing.
00:59:58
>> I don't know. And also, why? Like a cover up like this would take a lot of people. Why would a lot of people have a
01:00:07
vested interest in this? >> I was going to say and to protect who? Like there's a lot of question marks as
01:00:13
like what the motive would be to do this. >> To me, the only person who wins if she's
01:00:19
not found there is the golf club, >> right? >> But again, the brothers don't leave a
01:00:22
lot of room for who. They point squarely at police and they even end up filing a
01:00:27
formal complaint against the police criticizing their handling of the case. the independent office of police conduct
01:00:33
reviewed the complaint and then sent the matter back to the police department that was being that they're making the
01:00:39
complaint against like they're listen this is like an internal matter you guys should handle it and the police
01:00:44
department is like we reject this complaint >> this complaint on this case that didn't
01:00:48
happen to them >> case closed on their end so that's it the brothers are written off as loony
01:00:54
randos who imagine this whole thing while I'm over here like but did Hey. >> Yeah. Let's hang out here for like a
01:01:03
minute longer. If there really was a body under the floorboards, if it really was put there the summer of 1990, if it
01:01:11
was Trevolene, to me, that kind of points to just one person. >> Mhm. And Andrew and Lee have a whole
01:01:21
theory about this. They say that they've heard Richard and Trevalene were having problems and that
01:01:28
she was actually on the verge of leaving him which they think led to some sort of
01:01:32
altercation and ultimately her death. And we know his bungalow was close by the golf club. And he by his own
01:01:40
admission says he's in Rland when she goes missing, >> right? Like that was his alibi. The
01:01:44
whole thing started because someone who used to go there says in 1990 Richard drank at the golf club bar. And we
01:01:52
weren't able to verify this, but Andrew and Lee say they even believe that Richard was working as a handyman at the
01:01:59
golf club that summer. [music] >> What? >> I know. >> Wait, what did he do for a living? Like,
01:02:05
was he always a handyman? >> He worked in maintenance. I think it was like at like a chemical plant. So, like
01:02:11
it's totally plausible that he could have been doing work there. [music] Again, we haven't heard back from anyone
01:02:15
at the golf club, so we haven't been able to confirm this. But anyways, the brothers are saying that they heard this
01:02:20
from other people because obviously people telling them to like sh go away. Like this doesn't make them less
01:02:27
interested in this and they have talked to a lot of people about it since. So they think Richard would have had access
01:02:33
to a storage room off the kitchen where they say there was a trap door [music] leading underneath the floor. And they
01:02:40
think that he could have put Traveline's body under there to cover up a crime. >> I mean,
01:02:47
hypothetically, it could work. He gets back to Laughlin, scoops her up in the car. I mean, she'd get in with him,
01:02:54
>> someone she knew, >> or or maybe something happens in her shop. He drives her off to another town.
01:03:00
What's so weird to me is based on everything I've read, police never even searched the whole Rland area back then,
01:03:08
by the way. So like I mean she totally could have been hidden away if she was there. And then he ends up selling the
01:03:15
bungalow. So even he doesn't keep ties to that town. >> But when would he have put her under the
01:03:21
floor? I mean she went missing on a Saturday. You can't just like walk into a golf club on a Saturday afternoon and
01:03:26
hide a dead body under the bar. Like what's the timing of it then? >> I don't know. Like she would have had to
01:03:32
have been somewhere else at least for a little while which like I don't know whatever that's doable. M the part
01:03:38
that's outlandish to me is how ballsy you would have to be to put anything dead under the floor and not expect
01:03:44
someone to go looking for it. Like >> like who doesn't know that a body is going to start to smell, right?
01:03:50
>> Especially when you like have this other house of theirs right like the bungalow's right there where like no one
01:03:57
else is. >> Yeah. If someone would have like smelled this and gone looking for it and found
01:04:02
that it was trevolene like he's right there. There would have been no one else to blame but him.
01:04:08
>> Well, yeah. And that doesn't really make sense to me either. If there was a trap
01:04:12
door there, why didn't they go looking for the smell in the n like in 90? Like I have to
01:04:18
>> We know it was bad for business. People left. >> Well, the only thing I the only thing I
01:04:22
can think is that maybe it was already nailed shut >> or >> then crack it open. Maybe the smell
01:04:28
wasn't as bad as everyone remembered. I don't know. I have spiraled on this. I'm
01:04:35
even like I mean I've gone deep. I'm like who owned the golf club in 90? Like online property records for North Wales
01:04:40
like they don't go back that far. Would someone have kept such a big secret for Richard? Is everyone still keeping the
01:04:46
secret and that's why the body was moved? But like why would a whole department be hiding a secret for a dead
01:04:51
man? Richard died in 2014. Like dude, this is was there no body after all? But wait,
01:04:59
cuz just when you start thinking that, this happens. In 2021, this small metal plaque seems to appear
01:05:11
mysteriously one day, bolted to a bench on a walkway just outside of Rland. No one knows when exactly it got there or
01:05:19
who put it there. And it looks like one of those little memorial plaques that usually say like in memory of whoever
01:05:27
except this message looks handmade, like someone actually scratched a message into the metal. A message that reads in
01:05:35
memory of Trevolene Evans. Vanished 166 1990. Found Ruddlin GC143209. removed 193209.
01:05:51
RIP. >> So, the Sutton brothers put it there. >> That was my first thought, but they say
01:05:59
that they're not responsible for it. They actually think that it might have been a relative of Trevalines or maybe
01:06:06
someone from the police department who put the plaque up, someone who maybe was there while they were excavating. And
01:06:12
like, I don't know, this is their way of like whistleblowing. Well, again, there's like no evidence to back that
01:06:18
up. So, I don't >> And this is like a public bench. Like, it's owned by the town.
01:06:23
>> It is, but I mean, this is definitely not like a town sanctioned plaque. Like,
01:06:27
the local government actually had it removed. >> But then another one pops up. This time
01:06:33
outside an old miner's cottage a few minutes away from the first bench. This one's same size, same material, same
01:06:40
like [music] sketchy handwriting it seems, but the message is longer this time. I'm going to have you take a look
01:06:46
at this one instead of reading it. >> Justice awaits those responsible for the removal and disposal of Trevolene
01:06:52
[music] Evans. In this life or the next from Rling Golf Club on March 19, 2019 [music] at noon and may the Lord have
01:07:01
mercy upon their souls. Noon is specific. >> I know I can't find anything about what
01:07:08
time of day the like they searched for her or whatever took up the floor. And of course, like no one knows who put
01:07:15
this plaque up either. Now, it's been quiet since 2021, but maybe that's because no one was listening. If enough
01:07:22
people talk about this case, talk about these pictures, maybe more people will feel comfortable coming forward and
01:07:28
speaking if they know something. There's been a fifth theory explored over the years that, you know, traveling could
01:07:37
have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time and gotten caught in the crosshairs of a stranger, perhaps a
01:07:42
serial killer. In 2011, police explored this avenue and looked into two different serial killers
01:07:50
in the area, Robin Ligus and Christopher Hiell. Robin killed a few men in the area around that time. One of whom was
01:07:58
an antiques dealer, but they couldn't find any solid connection to Trevalene or actually any other female victims. As
01:08:05
far as I can tell, all of his victims were male. So, it seems like he was ruled out. And then with Christopher, he
01:08:11
did kill women. And apparently, he used to work as a window cleaner who had a habit of stealing antiques. And back
01:08:18
when Trevaline disappeared, he was apparently working in North Wales. But they've never been able to definitively
01:08:25
tie him to Trevolene's case either. And sure, a serial killer is possible, but is it probable?
01:08:34
>> Right? And who was the mystery man? Where does he fit into all of this? Does he exist? Or is he a fiction of
01:08:42
everyone's imagination like police say the skeleton under the floor was for the Sutton brothers? someone out there can
01:08:50
[music] answer that question. So, if it's you, email me [email protected]. I'll be keeping an eye out for your
01:08:58
message. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkkey.com. [music]
01:09:04
And if you want to listen to more episodes like this and all of our episodes completely adree, [music]
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be sure to join our fan club. You'll also get early access to new episodes every week. And you can follow us on
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