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Our episodes deal with serious and often distressing incidents. If you feel at any time you need support, please
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contact your local crisis center. For suggested phone numbers for confidential support and for a more
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detailed list of content warnings, please see the show notes for this episode on your app or on our website.
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Today's episode involves crimes against children and won't be suitable for all listeners.
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The police listened on as Craig Folbigg expressed his belief that maybe he had killed their four children.
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Kathleen asked why he would think such a thing. Craig told her to think about it. Every
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time they'd had a child, it had driven a wedge between them, and the best way he
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could get Kathleen's attention was to get rid of the kids. He presented a scenario in which he
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waited until Kathleen went to sleep in the middle of the night and then got up to kill the children.
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With Laura, he waited until Kathleen went outside and then sneaked in through the front door without her ever knowing
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he was there. "Who had anything to gain out of them not being around?" Craig asked before
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answering, "Me." Kathleen told Craig that he was being ridiculous. Craig clarified that he was suggesting a
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hypothetical, but that such a case against him was just as feasible as the one the police were building against
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Kathleen. Referring to Detective Bernie Ryan, Craig said, "All I'm trying to show you is the
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futility of the [ __ ] he's going on. Kathleen said she was scared and told Craig never to mention such a thing
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again. It's bad enough Detective Ryan is going for one of us, she said. I'm not having him going after you.
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Craig told Kathleen it was Detective Ryan who had first planted the idea in his head that the children had been
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murdered, adding, "I don't want him going after you for something you didn't do.
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I know you didn't do it like you know I didn't do it." But Craig's support for Kathleen was too
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late. The police had already started to compile evidence that suggested to them that Craig's reported suspicions were
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right all along. Detectives working the Folbigg case put together a preliminary brief of
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evidence. It contained the medical histories of the four Folbigg children as well as
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transcripts of Kathleen's police interview and copies of her diaries. Then they got to work seeking expert
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opinions. It quickly became clear that the majority of experts strictly adhered to
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Meadow's law. When it came to the unexplained death of an infant, one was a tragedy, two was suspicious, and three
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most likely pointed to murder. After reviewing the case, one police psychologist concluded,
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"If natural causes are eliminated, then in my opinion, Kathleen Folbigg became angry and frustrated with her children's
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crying and need for constant attention to a point where it overwhelmed her, and she lost control and consciously ended
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the lives of each child. The brief of evidence was also sent to Dr. Susan Beal, a pediatrician from
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Adelaide's Women's and Children's Hospital, who had studied SIDS for more than 30 years and was considered one of
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Australia's leading experts in the field. As far as Dr. Beal was aware, there had
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never been more than three SIDS-related deaths in a single family anywhere in the world.
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The only such occurrences had a later been revealed to be homicide. She also agreed with Dr. Allan Cala that
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the deaths of Caleb and Sarah Folbigg shouldn't have been classified as SIDS. Not only weren't they in the right age
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bracket, but they had also both been found sleeping on their backs. 80% of SIDS deaths occur when the infant
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is lying on their stomach. In Patrick's case, Dr. Beal didn't believe that epilepsy had caused his
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first apparent life-threatening event or ALTE. In babies as young as Patrick, epileptic
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fits were typically caused by another disease, which would be detectable in an EEG brain scan or at autopsy.
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Furthermore, it would be rare for the first epileptic fit to cause the level of brain damage that Patrick had
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sustained. As for Laura, Dr. Beal didn't think the myocarditis played a role in her
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unexplained death, either. Like Professor Hilton, she believed that Meadow's Law must be applied to the
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Folbigg children, and that it was most likely that all four of them had been suffocated, telling Detective Ryan,
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"I have no hesitation in saying I believe that all four children were murdered by their mother."
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Detective Ryan flew to the United States to meet with the Dr. Janice Ophoven, a pediatric forensic pathologist who
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specialized in mothers who kill their children. Years of research had taught her that
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the number one cause of deaths in infants living in developed countries wasn't disease, but physical injury
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typically inflicted by a caregiver. After reviewing the Folbigg case file and examining tissue samples taken from
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the four children, Dr. Ophoven ruled that none of their deaths could be attributed to SIDS.
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She stated that SIDS is not a hereditary problem and that, quote, "The statistical likelihood that four
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children could die from SIDS is in excess of one in a trillion." As the children had all been growing
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normally and their autopsies identified no sign of disease, Dr. Ophoven believed
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that all four of them had been suffocated by the last person to see them alive, Kathleen Folbigg.
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Dr. Allan Cala submitted his final autopsy report for Laura, listing her death as undetermined and stating it was
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possible that all four children were deliberately smothered. He pointed out that it would be
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relatively easy for an adult to smother an infant or small child using their hand, a soft toy, or a pillow without
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leaving a trace. Dr. Cala's report concluded, "The possibility of multiple homicides
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in this family has not been excluded." Opinion was also sought from UK pediatric pathologist and SIDS
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specialist Professor Peter Berry, who said he was not aware of any other case where four infants from the same family
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had died of unexplained natural causes. He pointed out that Caleb's autopsy had revealed signs of hemosiderin, or
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repeated bleeding, in his lungs. Combined with Kathleen's diary entry from the night Caleb died, in which she
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enthusiastically wrote, "Finally asleep." Professor Berry believed it was possible that Caleb had not only been
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smothered to death, but also smothered on a previous occasion from which he was able to recover.
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He also agreed that it was unlikely that Patrick Salty was caused by an epileptic
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seizure. Instead, he thought Patrick might have been suffocated to the point of brain
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damage. As for Sarah, if he viewed her death in isolation, Professor Berry agreed he
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could put it down to SIDS. But knowing what he knew about her siblings, and the alleged tension
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between Kathleen and Sarah on the night that she died, he had his misgivings. In regards to Laura, he said the level
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of myocarditis in her heart was extensive enough to cause sudden death, but there wasn't damage to her actual
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heart muscle as one would expect if myocarditis was responsible. He pointed out that myocarditis was also
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commonly found in individuals who died from other causes, such as traffic accidents or suffocation.
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Professor Berry concluded, "I am unable to rule out that Caleb, Patrick, Sarah, and possibly Laura
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Folbigg were suffocated by the person who found them lifeless. And I believe that it is probable that
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this was the case." It took the investigation team months to compile their brief of evidence.
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By late 2000, nearly 2 years after Laura's death, Detective Ryan finally felt confident enough to submit the
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preliminary brief to the director of public prosecutions. The DPP would decide if there was enough
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to charge Kathleen Folbigg with murdering her children. To his disappointment, the answer was
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no. The DPP felt there wasn't sufficient evidence to secure a conviction and recommended the case be handed over to
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the coroner for a full coronial inquiry instead. Detective Ryan was undeterred. At the end of the day, the decision to
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proceed with charges lay with him. And after devoting years of his life to the case, he was convinced that Kathleen was
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guilty. Determined to get justice for the innocent and defenseless Folbigg siblings and put a serial killer behind
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bars, Detective Ryan discussed the case with the Deputy State Coroner and a Crown Prosecutor.
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They agreed there was enough evidence to at least charge Kathleen with Laura's murder.
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Detective Ryan was convinced that if he could just get Craig back on his side, there would be enough to proceed with
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all four murder charges. And he had an idea of how he could do it. While the investigation had continued
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slowly behind the scenes, Craig and Kathleen split up for good in mid-2000. Kathleen was already living with her new
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boyfriend, a builder she'd met at the gym. If there was any chance of convincing
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Craig to withdraw his support for Kathleen and admit that he'd lied when retracting his original police
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statement, the time was now. On April 19, 2001, Detective Ryan visited Craig at work and placed him
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under arrest for hindering the investigation into his children's deaths. Faced with this, Craig admitted he was
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telling the truth when he initially went to the police to voice his suspicions about Kathleen.
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He stood by the story that he'd woken up about half an hour before Sarah's dead body was discovered to find that she and
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Kathleen weren't in their beds. Craig said that Kathleen's stories about the children simply didn't add up.
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Referring to his last interaction with Laura, he said, "How could I kiss a perfectly gorgeous
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little baby goodbye and half an hour later be confronted with that child dead?" In the year and a half since
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flip-flopping on his allegations against Kathleen, Craig had felt deeply ashamed
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of himself. "I've lived with the shame of coming and changing that story," he said.
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"I've felt that I couldn't protect those children in life and I certainly didn't
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protect them in death." With Craig back on their side and agreeing to testify against Kathleen,
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the detectives were finally ready to make their move. That afternoon, they went to Kathleen
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Folbigg's flat and knocked on the door. When she answered, Detective Ryan looked
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her in the eyes and said the words he'd been working for years to bring to fruition.
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"Kathy, you are under arrest for murdering your four children. Do you understand?"
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33-year-old Kathleen Folbigg was charged with four counts of murder and remanded
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without bail. The media quickly picked up on the story and the news sent shockwaves through the
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local community, particularly for Kathleen's new boyfriend, Tony. He'd fallen head over heels in love with
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Kathleen and envisioned them getting married and having a family together. He couldn't fathom that the warm and a
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loving woman he knew could be responsible for such a horrific allegation. The press published some of the most
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damning expert opinions from the police statement of facts, including Dr. Opitz's belief that the odds of all four
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Folbigg children dying of unexplained natural causes was one in a trillion. Accompanied by the excerpts from
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Kathleen's diary in which she compared herself to her murderous father, it didn't take long before she was
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considered guilty in the court of public opinion. If the court of law also found Kathleen
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guilty, it would make her one of the most prolific female serial killers in Australian history.
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But the press had to be careful. Kathleen's case was quickly likened to that of Lindy Chamberlain, a Queensland
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mother who was accused of killing her newborn daughter Azaria in 1980, as covered in episode 136 of Casefile.
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Lindy steadfastly maintained that Azaria had been taken by a dingo. However, the media painted her in such a
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negative light that it played a significant role in what turned out to be Lindy's wrongful conviction and one
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of the worst miscarriages of justice in Australian legal history. A month after her arrest, Kathleen
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applied for bail again. The prosecution still had a long road ahead to prepare their case for trial,
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and she wanted to live with Tony and resume her job as a waitress while she prepared her defense.
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The judge agreed to release Kathleen on $8,000 bail, citing the fact that she had no other children and therefore
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didn't present a threat to anyone else. Tony helped secure her bond, convinced that Kathleen was innocent, and that
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once this whole fiasco was behind them, they could move on with building a life together.
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While Kathleen was out on bail, the months passed as the prosecution team continued building their case against
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her. In addition to the expert opinions and circumstantial evidence provided by her
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diary entries and witness statements, they established a 10-point list of what's known as coincidence evidence.
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This is a type of circumstantial evidence that shows that two or more similar events occurring in similar
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circumstances are too improbable to have happened by chance. The list highlighted that all four of
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the Folbigg children died suddenly and unexpectedly while at home during a period of sleep.
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Prior to each death, or in Patrick's case his autopsy, each child had appeared perfectly normal and healthy.
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All of the deaths occurred while Kathleen was the only adult at home or awake. She was the one to discover each of them
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during what she claimed to be a normal check of their well-being. Three of these checks just so happened
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to have occurred on her way back from the toilet, and all literally within minutes of the child stopping breathing.
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In each incident except for Laura's death, Kathleen didn't offer any assistance. She didn't even lift the
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children out of their beds. Kathleen was bolstered by support from Tony and a group of faithful friends,
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many of whom had known her since childhood. They didn't believe the allegations against her for a second.
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Among them was Kathleen's foster sister, Lee, her trustworthy protector. Or so she thought.
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While Lee had fiercely defended her sister since the beginning, in the years since Laura's death, she'd had numerous
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conversations with Detective Bernie Ryan. Over time, her opinion had started to change.
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Reflecting on events, Lee realized there had been instances where Kathleen's behavior was questionable.
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In January 1998, when Laura was 5 months old and still using the apnea monitor, Lee and her family had gone to stay with
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the Folbiggs. One day, Laura was napping inside while everyone else was out in the pool.
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Lee felt a migraine coming on and went inside to lie down. To her great surprise, the apnea alarm
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went off twice. Despite its loud, high-pitched noise, neither Kathleen or Craig responded to
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it. When Lee mentioned it to Kathleen later on, she seemed indifferent and simply
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said she hadn't heard it. Another time, when Laura was 17 months old, the Folbiggs went to Melbourne to
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stay with Lee and her family for Christmas. One day, while feeding Laura in her high
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chair, Kathleen was in a bad mood, complaining that she wasn't getting enough sleep.
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When Laura refused to eat, Kathleen lost her temper and yanked the toddler out of
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the high chair by her arm. Lee had been alarmed. Not only did she think it was totally
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uncalled for, she had never seen this side of her sister's personality. She caught another glimpse of it on
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Christmas Eve, when Laura was too excited to sleep and Kathleen once again lost her temper and overreacted.
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Lee had also been alarmed when Kathleen told her that she'd once disciplined her
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puppy by kicking him down the stairs. Eventually, like Kreg Folbigg before her, Lee turned against Kathleen and
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contacted the police to change her statement. But, Kathleen was none the wiser. The two sisters remained in regular
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contact, with Lee agreeing to record their phone conversations and act as a witness for the prosecution while
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feigning ongoing support. On Friday, May 24, 2002, more than a year after her arrest, Kathleen Folbigg
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officially entered her plea of not guilty to all four murder charges. She was committed to stand trial in the
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Supreme Court the following year. Six months later, she was hit with an additional charge of maliciously
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inflicting grievous bodily harm in relation to Patrick's faulty. Kathleen pleaded not guilty to this
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charge as well. It had been a challenging time for Kathleen's defense team, who was so
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convinced of her innocence that New South Wales senior public defender Peter Zahra had agreed to work the case pro
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bono. The defense applied to have the cases for each of the Folbigg children tried
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separately so that the jury could judge each of their deaths as a standalone case without knowing about their
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siblings. The application was denied on the grounds that when considered separately,
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there could be plausible natural causes for the death of each child. It was only when all four cases were
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examined together and the coincidence evidence was considered that the case for murder became apparent.
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But, there was one piece of good news for the defense. Something huge had happened in the time since Kathleen's
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arrest. In England back in 1996, an 11-week-old boy named Christopher Clark had died
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unexpectedly in his sleep. Two years later, his 8-week-old brother Harry suffered the same fate.
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Both cases were initially recorded as SIDS, but the boy's mother, Sally Clark, became suspected of having smothered
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them. She was ultimately charged with murdering both of her children. Renowned pediatrician Professor Roy
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Meadow testified at Sally's trial, presenting his theory that one sudden infant death in a family is a tragedy,
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two is suspicious, and three is murder unless proven otherwise. Meadow said that the odds of both
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Christopher and Harry, who'd been born into an affluent non-smoking family, dying from SIDS was one in 73 million.
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According to Professor Meadow, two SIDS deaths in a single family was so rare he
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would only expect it to occur once every 100 years. He said there was a better chance of
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someone placing an 80-1 outsider bet on the Grand National horse race and winning four years in a row.
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Based in part on Professor Meadow's evidence, Sally Clark was found to guilty and sentenced to life in prison,
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which she unsuccessfully appealed in 2002. On her second appeal in early 2003, it
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emerged that during the autopsy for Sally's younger son Harry, he had tested positive for a bacterial infection that
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could have been fatal. The pathologist who performed Harry's autopsy didn't disclose his findings to
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either of the legal teams, and it therefore hadn't been presented at Sally's trial.
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Furthermore, serious questions had been raised about the statistics put forward by Professor Meadow, with the Royal
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Statistical Society saying his figures were false. A professor of mathematics had reviewed
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SIDS statistics against homicide statistics, and concluded that although instances of double SIDS are very rare,
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double murder is even rarer. Statistically speaking, it was actually twice as likely for two children from
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one family to die from SIDS than it was for a mother to kill two of her babies. The appellate judges reviewing Sally's
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case found that Christopher and Harry's deaths should not have been tried together.
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They also found that the statistical information put forward by Professor Meadow was clearly inadmissible and
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should never have been allowed in evidence, as it misled the jury. Sally Clark was subsequently released
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from prison in January 2003 and had her conviction overturned. With the just months until Kathleen's
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trial was scheduled to begin, this was positive news for her legal team. If Professor Meadow's statistics were
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unreliable, then Dr. Opoven's scathing opinion that there was a one in a trillion chance of four children from
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the same family dying of SIDS was essentially meaningless. The judge ruled Dr. Opoven's conclusion
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inadmissible at Kathleen's trial, despite it having already been widely published in the media.
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Meanwhile, the defense asked for extra time while they sought further information from overseas about a
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potential correlation that was starting to emerge as a result of Sally Clark's appeal.
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It had been hypothesized that particular genetic mutations might lead to an increased risk of SIDS or even cause
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SIDS. The judge adjourned the case temporarily to give the defense time for further
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testing, but with no further developments emerging, it was time for Kathleen to face the
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music. By the time Kathleen Folbigg's murder trial commenced in the New South Wales
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Supreme Court on Tuesday, April 1, 2003, Craig Folbigg was engaged to another woman and surrounded by loved ones and
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supporters. The now 35-year-old Kathleen, on the other hand, was essentially alone.
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Her foster mother, with whom she had a strained relationship, was siding with Craig, despite the two not getting along
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in the past. Her foster sister had turned on her, and one of her closest friends was unable to
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travel to Sydney to testify on her behalf due to health concerns about her own pregnancy.
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Kathleen had also ended her relationship with Tony to focus on the trial, despite
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his firm belief that she was innocent. Instead, Kathleen relied on support from a Salvation Army court chaplain named
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Major Joyce Harmer, who had kindly agreed to look after her while the trial was underway.
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The prosecution was led by Senior Crown Prosecutor Mark Tedeschi, a formidable figure in the New South Wales legal
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world, who had secured convictions against high-profile killers such as Ivan Milat, covered in episode 109 of
00:26:33
Casefile, and Kathleen, Lane covered in episode 300 of Casefile. In his opening address, Tedeschi told
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the jury they were to consider two possibilities. Either Kathleen Folbigg had deliberately
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intended to kill her children by smothering them during a flash of anger, hatred, and resentment,
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or she deliberately intended to render them unconscious or put them to sleep by smothering them so she could sleep or
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have a moment to herself. He made it clear that regardless of which situation was correct, either
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possibility constituted murder. Tedeschi said that Kathleen had a very low threshold for stress and resented
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the restrictions her children put on her life, particularly when it came to sleep, exercise, and her social life.
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She also resented Craig for not providing what she considered to be adequate help.
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Tedeschi told the jury that Kathleen was, quote, constantly preoccupied to an exaggerated degree with her weight gain,
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and that this was partly due to the fact that her children stood in the way of her going to the gym as often as she
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would have liked. Tedeschi and his team wanted the detail of Kathleen's dark family history to
00:27:53
argue that she had inherited murderous traits or mental illness from her father.
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But the judge had forbidden anything about her father's crimes from being mentioned, as it could lead to unfair
00:28:05
prejudice. Instead, the prosecution's case relied on three major factors: the medical
00:28:12
evidence, the coincidence evidence, and Kathleen's diary entries. After presenting the 10 points of
00:28:20
coincidence evidence to the jury, Tedeschi said there was only one way to explain the similarities between the
00:28:26
deaths of Caleb, Patrick, Sarah, and Laura, and that was that Kathleen Folbigg was responsible for each one.
00:28:35
He read 40 of her diary entries in court, telling the jury they showed the frustration Kathleen felt with her
00:28:42
weight gain, her exhaustion, her moods, her lack of toleration for her babies, and her inability to control her actions
00:28:49
when around them. These entries were proof in Tedeschi's eyes that Kathleen was involved in each
00:28:57
death and carried guilt about each one. They also demonstrated her belief that she'd finally changed when Laura was
00:29:05
born only for this to unravel when the same frustration she'd suffered with the other children had gotten the better of
00:29:12
her. Tedeschi closed arguments for the prosecution by telling the jury that Kathleen Folbigg had been unable to cope
00:29:20
with the demands of parenthood. She was so obsessed with her own wants, needs, and desires that she eventually
00:29:27
resolved her frustration by killing her children. Kathleen Folbigg did not kill or injure
00:29:34
her children to get attention for herself or in a state of profound depression, Tedeschi declared.
00:29:41
She killed them because she couldn't stand their crying and the demands they made on her life.
00:29:51
Kathleen's lawyer, Peter Zahra, told the jury that there was no evidence Kathleen
00:29:56
had ever abused or mistreated her children. In fact, she had always advocated for
00:30:01
their health and well-being. Even those who were testifying against her said she had been a loving mother
00:30:08
who had taken good care of her kids. As for the suggestion that Kathleen was motivated to kill so she could get on
00:30:15
top of her weight, Zahra pointed out that Kathleen hadn't even joined a gym until 5 months after Sarah, her third
00:30:22
child, had passed away. Countering the prosecution's position, Zahra said that each of the children's
00:30:30
deaths could be explained by a natural medical condition. Caleb had a floppy larynx, Patrick had
00:30:37
epilepsy, Sarah had a congested displaced uvula, and Laura had a myocarditis. Zahra argued that in the face of these
00:30:47
medical conditions, the coincidence evidence presented by the prosecution was meaningless.
00:30:54
Given that Kathleen was her children's primary carer, and it was her responsibility to get up in the night to
00:31:00
care for them, it made sense that she was the one to have found them moribund or lifeless.
00:31:07
There was also nothing suspicious about the fact that the children had died while in their beds, as this is a common
00:31:14
factor for most children who die from unexplained causes. While it was true that Craig Folbigg had
00:31:20
been the one to administer CPR for Caleb, Patrick, and Sarah, Kathleen hadn't hesitated to perform CPR on Laura
00:31:28
when Craig wasn't there to help. As for the diary entries, Zahra urged the jury to draw on their own
00:31:36
experiences and consider that Kathleen was actually using her journals to work through her completely reasonable and
00:31:43
normal feelings of grief, shame, and guilt. He said she had used them to ask hypothetical what if questions, using
00:31:52
words that were never intended for anyone else's eyes. The prosecution presented their case
00:31:59
over several weeks, with Craig Folbigg the first witness to take the stand. Kathleen appeared emotionless as Craig
00:32:07
spoke of his deep love for his children and shared some of his negative memories
00:32:11
of Kathleen's mothering skills. He spoke about the growl she regularly made during moments of frustration and
00:32:19
the aggression she had shown towards Laura on the morning she died. Speaking about the day the police came
00:32:26
to arrest him for hindering the investigation, Craig said that was the moment he decided to tell the truth.
00:32:33
He vehemently denied that revenge had been a motivating factor. For the differing statements he'd made
00:32:41
to the police over the years, Craig was granted indemnity against being prosecuted for perjury. Although the
00:32:47
defense was quick to point out his lies. Peter Zahra reminded Craig that he had been recorded telling Kathleen that he
00:32:55
had initially gone to the police because he was so full of hate, spite, and anxiety that he wanted to ruin her life
00:33:02
like she did his. Zahra also asked Craig about a previously recorded conversation in
00:33:09
which he told a friend that if he had even the slightest inkling that Kathleen had killed the children, he probably
00:33:15
would have killed her himself. Craig told another friend that Detective Bernie Ryan had planted some [ __ ] in
00:33:24
his head during one of the lowest points of his life. He'd shared his view that it angered the
00:33:30
detective when people spoke about what a good mother Kathleen had been. On the stand, Craig claimed he didn't
00:33:38
recall these remarks and agreed that he could have been lying at the time. Kathleen's lawyer replied,
00:33:46
"You see, Mr. Folbigg, it is now becoming increasingly difficult to tell when you lie and when you don't."
00:33:56
With the jury left to ponder whether Craig Folbigg genuinely believed that Kathleen had murdered their children or
00:34:03
was simply seeking revenge for her having left him, Craig's allegations that Kathleen was occasionally rough
00:34:10
with her children were backed up by testimony from Kathleen's foster sister, Lee Brown.
00:34:16
Although in cross-examination, Lee conceded she had only ever seen Kathleen lose her temper with Laura twice and
00:34:24
that she hadn't been forthcoming with this information until many years after the fact.
00:34:30
The medical and forensic experts who testified for the prosecution all agreed that they had never heard of another
00:34:36
case in which three or more sudden unexplained infant deaths had occurred naturally within a single family.
00:34:44
They were required to give evidence about the death of each child individually, and while the autopsy
00:34:50
findings for each one differed slightly, each of the experts agreed that it was possible Kathleen had deliberately
00:34:57
smothered her children. Kathleen chose not to take the stand in her own defense, which meant the only
00:35:04
time the jury heard from her was when the video of her one and only police interview from July 1999 was played to
00:35:11
the court. When it came to the point of the interview where Detective Ryan had asked
00:35:16
Kathleen point blank if she had killed her children, Kathleen became hysterical and had to be removed from the dock.
00:35:24
She was taken to hospital and sedated while proceedings were adjourned for the day.
00:35:30
The only other time she showed any emotion was during testimony from pathologist Dr. Allan Cala when a video
00:35:37
was played of a happy, healthy Laura playing by the pool on the day before she died.
00:35:43
Dr. Cala said that based on the footage, it was quite unlikely that Laura had died of myocarditis.
00:35:51
At this point, Kathleen covered her head in her hands and broke down in tears. The defense took just three days to
00:36:00
present their case. Without access to the genetic information they'd been seeking from
00:36:06
overseas, their strongest testimony came from Professor Roger Byard, an internationally acclaimed SIDS expert
00:36:13
from Adelaide's Forensic Science Centre. Byard said the video of Laura proved nothing.
00:36:21
While she might have looked happy and healthy, it was impossible to tell from the footage whether she had a fever or
00:36:27
any other symptoms that could be attributed to myocarditis. He cited another case where a young girl
00:36:34
had played a game of basketball and had swam 40 m in a pool before dying of myocarditis.
00:36:41
While the level of Laura's myocarditis might have been moderate, Professor Biard said,
00:36:47
"It was the sort of inflammation I have seen in a number of cases of sudden death in children."
00:36:55
As for Caleb, Patrick, and Sarah, he said there was no evidence that any of them had been smothered and reminded the
00:37:02
jury they were not dealing with absolutes. He didn't think the hemosiderin found in
00:37:08
Caleb's lungs was significant either. A study he'd conducted had revealed the presence of hemosiderin in 20% of all
00:37:16
SIDS cases. Although Professor Biard admitted under cross-examination that he didn't know of
00:37:23
any other case where four children from the same family all died suddenly and unexpectedly from four different natural
00:37:30
causes. Testimony was heard from three of Kathleen's friends from the gym who had
00:37:37
witnessed her being a loving and caring mother to Laura. Under cross-examination, however, they
00:37:43
each admitted that they hadn't been close enough to Kathleen to know much about her marriage or private life.
00:37:50
The prosecution said this rendered their testimony meaningless and further proved
00:37:55
that the only real insight into how Kathleen really felt was through her diaries.
00:38:01
In summing up for the prosecution, Tedeschi said that while he couldn't disprove the possibility that Caleb,
00:38:08
Patrick, Sarah, and Laura had died from the various natural causes put forward by the defense,
00:38:14
he also couldn't disprove the possibility that pigs might one day fly. "If you look at what the defense is
00:38:22
suggesting," Tedeschi stated, "not in isolation, but in totality, there has never ever been before in the
00:38:30
history of medicine that our experts have been able to find any case like this. It is preposterous.
00:38:38
It is not a reasonable doubt. It is fantasy." The judge acknowledged the emotional
00:38:46
nature of the 7-week trial, telling the jury, "It is unlikely to imagine a more tragic
00:38:53
series of events happening to a single family. You must not judge this case with your
00:38:58
heart, but with your heads." The jury left to deliberate and were called back in the following afternoon.
00:39:10
The general assumption was that they would request more time to consider their verdict.
00:39:16
It therefore came as a surprise to everyone in the packed courtroom when they announced that they were ready to
00:39:21
give their decision on all five charges. Tension hung thick in the air when the foreperson was asked how they found
00:39:30
Kathleen Folbigg in relation to the murder of her firstborn son, Caleb. Their answer was unexpected.
00:39:39
Not guilty. As those in the gallery tried to maintain their composure, the foreperson was asked how they found
00:39:47
Kathleen in relation to Caleb's manslaughter. Guilty, came the reply. Relief washed over Craig and his family,
00:39:57
while Kathleen appeared to be in a state of shock. For the charge of causing grievous
00:40:03
bodily harm to Patrick, the jury also found Kathleen guilty. For Patrick's murder,
00:40:10
guilty. Sarah's murder, guilty. Laura's murder, guilty. Craig and his loved ones looked on in
00:40:21
stunned disbelief. Many of them broke down in tears, while Lee Brown let out a shout.
00:40:30
The relatively stony demeanor Kathleen had maintained for a majority of the trial crumbled in an instant.
00:40:37
She burst into tears, her whole body shaking as she slumped down in her seat, unable to stand.
00:40:44
Kathleen's only supporter, Major Joyce Harmer, was given permission to help. Quietly, she put her arm around Kathleen
00:40:53
and half carried her out of the dock and towards the holding cells downstairs. Outside court, Craig Folbigg faced the
00:41:02
hordes of reporters to deliver a message to the members of the jury. Through tears, he said,
00:41:10
"My most humble thanks go to 12 people who I have never formally met, who today share the honor of having set four
00:41:18
beautiful souls free to rest in peace." While Kathleen awaited her sentencing, she was kept in solitary confinement.
00:41:30
Word of her conviction quickly spread, and the officials feared for her safety due to the level of hatred from the
00:41:37
other inmates. Anytime she was taken from her cell, she was protected by guards on all sides.
00:41:45
She barely ate, fearful that her food had been poisoned. Although Kathleen strongly maintained
00:41:52
her innocence, the public backlash against her was fierce, and she quickly earned the undesirable title of the most
00:41:59
hated woman in Australia. Nobody could understand how a mother could do such a thing to not one, but
00:42:07
all four of her children, and expect to get away with it. The question the public wanted answered
00:42:13
was why would someone continuously go through the strain of pregnancy and childbirth if they knew they couldn't
00:42:19
handle the pressure of parenthood? The fact that Kathleen's father had killed her mother became a hot topic in
00:42:26
the media with many questioning the role that genetic and environmental factors could have played in Kathleen's crimes.
00:42:34
She was examined by various psychiatrists who also reviewed her government records to try to find a
00:42:39
logical explanation for why she had killed her children. It was revealed that the first few years
00:42:46
of Kathleen's life had not started well. After her mother was killed, 18-month-old Kathleen became a ward of
00:42:54
the state and went to live with her maternal aunt and her husband. The couple soon noticed that Kathleen
00:43:01
displayed some troubling behavior. They said she was aggressive, had difficulty learning acceptable manners,
00:43:09
and seemed preoccupied with her genitals. A medical officer assessed Kathleen and
00:43:15
concluded that she had likely been sexually abused by her father when she was a baby and was, quote, "a very
00:43:23
disturbed little girl." Kathleen's aunt was unable to care for her, so she was put into a foster family
00:43:31
who went on to raise her as their own. Kathleen's foster parents said she was happy and well-adjusted, but Kathleen
00:43:38
found her foster mother to be excessively controlling, socially isolating, and at times violent.
00:43:46
Sometimes she hit Kathleen with a wooden spoon or a belt. Despite this, Kathleen felt she
00:43:53
inherited many positive traits from her foster mother, too. She went on to do relatively well at
00:43:59
school, and although she didn't have many friends growing up, she formed some lasting friendships in her adolescence
00:44:05
that she cherished into adulthood. It was only as a teenager that she discovered the truth about her parents
00:44:12
and was left to deal with the complex feelings this raised. Constant clashes with her foster mother
00:44:19
prompted her to move out of home at the age of 17 and she met Craig Folbigg shortly after.
00:44:27
One of the psychiatrists who assessed Kathleen ahead of her sentencing believed that the first few years of her
00:44:33
life had impacted her ability to form emotional attachments. In turn, this contributed to her
00:44:40
inability to care for or protect her own children. Opposing the opinion of another
00:44:47
psychiatrist, he didn't believe Kathleen had a diagnosable personality disorder,
00:44:52
but that she was a deeply tormented and disturbed woman who struggled with depression, feelings of rejection, and a
00:44:59
low self-esteem, all of which stemmed from her first few years of life. The neglect and abuse she'd endured as a
00:45:07
young girl also explained her emotional detachment and what was viewed as her inappropriate grieving process after
00:45:15
each of her children's deaths. The psychiatrist said these negative feelings were evident in Kathleen's
00:45:22
diary entries, which provided the only real insight into her state of mind. The various mental health professionals
00:45:30
who had dealt with Kathleen also noted that she spoke of the children as though she had nothing to do with their deaths.
00:45:38
One psychiatrist thought she could be disassociating from the traumatic crimes or had repressed them completely.
00:45:46
Another concluded, "I am sure we will never know why Kathleen did it." When Kathleen's sentencing took place 5
00:45:58
months after her trial in October 2003, Justice Graham Barr agreed that Kathleen's early life provided an
00:46:05
insight into her state of mind as an adult. In his view, the stress Kathleen experienced raising her own children was
00:46:13
heightened because she was psychologically damaged and barely coping. He accepted that she was generally a
00:46:21
good mother, but that her mental state left her unable to ask for help when she felt herself struggling with the demands
00:46:27
of sick, willful, or disobedient children. Justice Barr didn't think the deaths were premeditated, but that they'd
00:46:36
occurred once Kathleen was pushed beyond her ability to manage. He said she would always present a
00:46:43
danger to any children in her care, and it was unlikely she'd ever admit the truth about her crimes.
00:46:51
Acknowledging the potential harm Kathleen faced in prison, Justice Barr recommended that she be held in solitary
00:46:57
confinement 22 hours a day. And with that, he delivered his sentence. For the murders of her four children,
00:47:07
Kathleen Folbigg would spend 40 years in prison with a non-parole period of 30 years.
00:47:15
Outside court, Craig Folbigg avoided the media throngs eager to put this horrendous chapter of his life behind
00:47:22
him and move on. Kathleen's lawyer had one final message to deliver to the waiting press.
00:47:30
Mrs. Folbigg has asked me to say that she is innocent of these charges. She did not kill her children or harm
00:47:37
them in any way. For Kathleen's foster sister, Lee, the sentencing came as a relief.
00:47:46
If Kathleen's crimes had taught her anything, it was that other unexplained infant deaths should be examined more
00:47:52
carefully by law enforcement and forensic specialists. She called on the press to make sure
00:47:58
someone was giving a voice to those who couldn't speak for themselves. So scathing was Lee's opinion of
00:48:05
Kathleen that she'd even handed over a private letter to the press that Kathleen had written to her from prison
00:48:12
while awaiting sentencing. The letter had been published on the front page of the Daily Telegraph
00:48:17
newspaper. In it, Kathleen voiced her disbelief that Lee had turned against her, saying
00:48:25
it wasn't fair that she was being compared to her father when she'd actively fought against having any
00:48:30
connection to him. She said any personality trait she had inherited came from her foster parents,
00:48:38
just like Lee's had, and none of them were capable of murder. Kathleen accused Lee of purposely lying,
00:48:46
deceiving, and manipulating her during the four years it had taken the police to build a circumstantial case against
00:48:53
her. She said that nobody had any right to interpret the meaning of her diary entries, saying it was, quote,
00:49:02
"A sad day when a mother can be put away for merely being a normal mother who wrote down her emotions, anxieties, and
00:49:09
frustrations in bloody books. The diaries are not literal, definitely not a window to my brain," Kathleen
00:49:19
wrote. "How ridiculous. They were a place for me to offload and then what my hands and move on.
00:49:28
Lee, I know my failures and have taken responsibility for them, but I will not be forced to take responsibility for
00:49:35
something I have not done. I have no more energy to battle with people who won't hear.
00:49:42
Try to imagine your life being spread out, ripped to pieces, examined, opinions cast, character assassinated,
00:49:51
your every word, action, thought doubted. And you're told you don't know yourself.
00:49:58
Add to that becoming the most hated woman alive. I now live with that every day.
00:50:06
I endure all of this knowing that vindication will one day be mine. While Kathleen Folbigg came to terms
00:50:20
with her new reality, in the aftermath of Sally Clark's wrongful conviction in England, a review was ordered into a
00:50:27
number of other cases where Professor Roy Meadow had provided evidence for the prosecution.
00:50:33
Subsequently, three other women who'd been convicted of murdering their children had their convictions
00:50:39
overturned and were released from prison. Among them was Angela Cannings, a mother
00:50:45
of four who had been found guilty of smothering two of her babies. In the review of Angela's case, the
00:50:52
appellate judge was scathing of Meadow's law. He said that two or more sudden unexplained infant deaths in a single
00:51:00
family certainly warranted an explanation, but that great care must be taken to not simply assume the infants
00:51:07
were deliberately killed. The judge stated, "If murder cannot be proven, the conviction cannot be safe.
00:51:17
In a criminal case, it is simply not enough to be able to establish even a high probability of guilt.
00:51:25
Unless we are sure of guilt, the dreadful possibility always remains that a mother, already brutally scarred by
00:51:32
the unexplained death or deaths of her babies, may find herself in prison for life for killing them when she would not
00:51:39
be there at all. In our community and in any civilized community, that is abhorrent.
00:51:48
Kathleen's legal team used Angela's case as one of the grounds of their first appeal against her conviction, while
00:51:55
also arguing that the various charges against her should never have been tried together.
00:52:01
The appeal was rejected with the judges finding that Kathleen's case differed from Angela's in multiple ways, and that
00:52:08
enough evidence had been presented at Kathleen's trial to uphold her conviction.
00:52:14
Although they did agree that her 40-year sentence was excessive and reduced it to
00:52:19
30 years with eligibility for parole after 25. Kathleen filed a second appeal in 2007
00:52:28
on the grounds that her trial had miscarried by way of juror misconduct. Over the years, it had emerged that one
00:52:36
of the jurors on Kathleen's trial had been fascinated by a comment that Craig Folbigg made during his testimony.
00:52:43
Recalling the conversation in which he told Kathleen that he'd given her diary to the police, Craig said Kathleen had
00:52:50
asked him what was written in it. He'd told her, "Oh, there was that thing about being
00:52:57
your father's daughter." As this particular diary entry had been ruled inadmissible at the trial, the
00:53:04
jurors didn't know what Craig was talking about. One of them was curious enough that they
00:53:10
Googled Kathleen's name when they got home and discovered that she was the daughter of a convicted murderer, a
00:53:17
detail they then shared with the other jurors. This was a major no-no, as the jurors
00:53:24
were forbidden from conducting any external research while the trial was underway.
00:53:30
It also turned out that another juror had conducted their own research pertaining to how long an infant's body
00:53:36
would stay warm for after they died. Kathleen's second appeal was also rejected, with the prosecution
00:53:44
successfully arguing that the jurors knowing about Kathleen's father could have actually helped her case.
00:53:51
Despite everything that had been printed in the media that essentially inferred Kathleen had been born to kill, the
00:53:57
prosecution said that if anything, this detail would have elicited sympathy from
00:54:02
the jurors. Kathleen appealed to have her case heard by the High Court, but this was
00:54:08
rejected, too. With her appeal avenues exhausted, she was forced to accept her new reality as
00:54:15
Australia's worst-known female serial killer. But despite public opinion, Kathleen
00:54:22
never faltered in her claim of innocence. In the letter she'd written to Lee while
00:54:27
awaiting sentencing, Kathleen had said, "I don't like being hated, so why would I do something that ensures I am?
00:54:37
This is the last time I'll state I did not kill my children." Unbeknownst to Kathleen, she wasn't the
00:54:48
only one who refused to accept this. Dr. Emma Cunliffe is an Australian professor of law who spent her PhD
00:54:55
researching the ways in which the legal process, medical knowledge, and expectations of motherhood work together
00:55:02
when a mother is charged with killing a baby who died under mysterious circumstances.
00:55:09
As she looked into various case studies, she realized that over the years most of
00:55:14
the accused women had either had their charges acquitted, their convictions overturned, or evidence against them
00:55:20
thrown out completely. All of them, that was, except for Kathleen Folbigg. Professor Cunliffe was particularly
00:55:30
struck by the testimony from medical experts at Kathleen's trial who said they weren't aware of any other cases
00:55:36
where more than three children in a single family had died from unexplained natural causes.
00:55:43
When she looked into the medical research available at the time of Kathleen's trial, she found at least
00:55:48
eight other such cases. In the wake of Sally Clark's appeal in the UK, even more cases had emerged.
00:55:58
Furthermore, in Laura Folbigg's autopsy, Dr. Allan Cala had noted that she was suffering from myo carditis at the time
00:56:06
of her death. How then, Professor Cunliffe wondered, had he testified that it was unlikely
00:56:12
that she had died of myo carditis? She couldn't understand how Dr. Cala had reached the conclusion that each of the
00:56:20
Folbigg children had been smothered, particularly when some of Dr. Cala's colleagues had also examined the slides
00:56:27
of Laura's heart tissue and thought the level of myo carditis was significant enough to cause death.
00:56:34
Notably, none of those experts had been called to give evidence at Kathleen's trial.
00:56:40
Then there was the issue of Kathleen's diaries, which the prosecution had posited were as good as having, quote, a
00:56:47
machine to look into Kathleen's mind. While Professor Cunliffe agreed that the diaries were shocking and even
00:56:54
distressing to read, she began researching the reactions of mothers who had unexpectedly lost a child.
00:57:01
She found that self-blame and guilt were very common, especially when the death was sudden and unexplained.
00:57:10
Professor Cunliffe found it odd that no expert evidence about maternal grief and
00:57:14
bereavement had been submitted at Kathleen's trial. She also believed that many of the
00:57:20
submissions made by the prosecution were based on what she described as misogynistic stereotypes about
00:57:27
self-sacrificial mothering. For example, they had suggested that Kathleen wanting to leave Sarah with a
00:57:34
family member so she could exercise at the gym or work part-time was evidence that she couldn't cope as a mother.
00:57:42
Nothing was said about the benefits that exercise, financial independence, and social relationships had on postpartum
00:57:49
women. The more Professor Cunliffe learned, the more she believed that Kathleen's
00:57:55
diaries were evidence of a woman who was struggling with grief and trying desperately to regain some form of
00:58:02
control. It sounded to her like Kathleen blamed herself for her children's deaths
00:58:08
because she believed it was her responsibility to protect them from harm. Over time, her entries showed that she
00:58:15
became superstitious, almost to a point of obsession about controlling every detail of their upbringing.
00:58:23
And most importantly for Professor Cunliffe, at no point did she ever write that she had harmed any of her children
00:58:30
in any way. Professor Cunliffe's findings were published in 2011 in a book titled
00:58:40
Murder, Medicine, and Motherhood with the conclusion that Kathleen Folbigg had been wrongfully convicted.
00:58:47
By this point, Kathleen had spent eight years behind bars. Publication of the book propelled her
00:58:54
case back into the spotlight with others coming forward to voice their support and call for the case to be re-examined.
00:59:02
The problem was Kathleen had already exhausted her avenues of appeal. For her case to be reviewed, the New
00:59:09
South Wales Attorney General would have to order an official inquiry. The possibility that Kathleen could be
00:59:17
innocent gained even more traction after Professor Cunliffe voiced her concerns in a segment about the case on popular
00:59:24
current affairs program 60 Minutes. This was countered by an appearance from Kathleen's foster sister, Lee Brown, who
00:59:32
was unwavering in her belief that Kathleen was guilty and told the reporter that she believed Kathleen
00:59:38
deserved to die for what she did to her children. Professor Cunliffe's findings caught the
00:59:45
attention of various eminent lawyers who agreed there were some serious questions
00:59:49
about Kathleen's conviction. This led to the case being reviewed by a group of law students from the
00:59:56
University of Newcastle's Legal Centre, who scrutinized the trial transcripts and examined the similar British cases
01:00:03
that had been sullied by the now debunked Meadow's Law. While the debunking of this theory had a
01:00:09
positive impact on many wrongfully accused women, the damage it had caused was irreparable.
01:00:15
In 2007, Sally Clark, the British mother who was acquitted of killing her two babies, died of acute alcohol poisoning,
01:00:23
having never recovered from the trauma of her ordeal. The deaths of Caleb, Patrick, Sarah, and
01:00:31
Laura Folbigg were independently reviewed by Professor Stephen Cordner, the former director of the Victorian
01:00:37
Institute of Forensic Medicine, who was widely considered to be Australia's leading forensic pathologist.
01:00:44
After spending an entire year on the case, Professor Cordner was bewildered by the fact that it had never been
01:00:50
explicitly stated during Kathleen's trial that there had been no physical evidence to the possibility that the
01:00:57
children had been smothered or killed by any means. This was particularly poignant in
01:01:04
Laura's case. As Laura was old enough to have fully erupted teeth, if she had been
01:01:11
smothered, Professor Cordner would have expected to see tooth marks on the inside of her mouth.
01:01:17
Instead, there were absolutely no signs of asphyxia or compressions to her face,
01:01:22
and no evidence of a struggle expected in a toddler of that age. However, the level of myocarditis was
01:01:30
significant enough that in Professor Cordner's view, most forensic pathologists would feel comfortable to
01:01:36
rule at the cause of Laura's death. He also found it completely reasonable to attribute Caleb and Sarah's deaths to
01:01:45
SIDS. While he couldn't determine what had caused Patrick's ALTE, he was confident
01:01:51
that his eventual death was, quote, "an unsurprising consequence of the state he was left in following the
01:01:58
ALTE." Professor Cordner put his findings in a 125-page report that was peer-reviewed and
01:02:07
supported by a number of international experts who further debunked the theory that two or more infant deaths should be
01:02:14
treated as homicides. They agreed with Cordner when he concluded, quote, "There is no forensic pathology evidence
01:02:22
to suggest that the Folbigg children were deliberately smothered or killed. In my view, it is wrong on the forensic
01:02:29
evidence available in this case to conclude that one or more of the Folbigg children are the victims of homicide.
01:02:37
There is no merit in forcing certainty where uncertainty exists. If the convictions in this case are to
01:02:44
stand, I want to clearly state there is no pathological or medical basis for concluding homicide.
01:02:52
The findings are completely compatible with natural causes." In 2013, the Newcastle Legal Centre
01:03:03
officially took on Kathleen's case pro bono and announced that they would be seeking an inquiry into her conviction.
01:03:11
In addition to Cordner's report, they had Kathleen's diary entries studied by a clinical psychologist who was scathing
01:03:18
of the prosecution's interpretation of them as being confessions to the alleged crimes.
01:03:24
Just like Dr. Emma Cunliffe had suggested, the psychologist believed the diary entries proved that Kathleen was
01:03:31
no different from many other postpartum mothers in that she felt isolated and sometimes depressed and worried about
01:03:38
her marriage and physical appearance following childbirth. Kathleen's diary entries suggested to
01:03:45
the psychologist that she interpreted her feelings of stress, irritability, and exhaustion as evidence of poor
01:03:52
mothering. She then equated her reaction to motherhood as the reason that her children had died.
01:04:00
The psychologist found it significant that Kathleen had never once mentioned having harmed any of the children or
01:04:06
even wanting to harm them. Why hold this information back in a diary that she didn't expect anyone else
01:04:13
to ever read? The psychologist concluded that the prosecution using the diaries as
01:04:19
evidence was misleading and unsupported by psychological literature on maternal adjustment.
01:04:26
Despite everything that had emerged from Sally Clark's appeal in the UK, Kathleen's defense team had not called
01:04:33
any experts to testify that theories such as Meadow's law had been discredited. Kathleen's new legal team had the case
01:04:42
reviewed by a British professor of mathematics who provided evidence for the Clark case.
01:04:47
He called Meadow's law complete nonsense and concluded that the jury in Kathleen's case had been misled by
01:04:54
expert statements about the rarity of multiple SIDS in a single family. While multiple SIDS cases were indeed
01:05:01
rare, the professor pointed out that statistically speaking, there were far more instances of multiple SIDS than
01:05:09
there were of multiple infant murders. With such a large number of women giving birth each week, he concluded it was
01:05:17
inevitable that there would be instances of multiple unexplained deaths in the one family.
01:05:23
A long-running study in the UK had actually shown that families who had lost one child to SIDS had an increased
01:05:30
chance of losing a second baby to SIDS. With the jury in Kathleen's case being told there were no recorded instances of
01:05:38
three or more SIDS in the one family, the professor said this had essentially left the jury incorrectly believing that
01:05:45
homicide was the only explanation for the deaths of the four big children. With all of this new evidence coming to
01:05:55
light, in May 2015, Kathleen's legal team announced that they had signed a petition calling for her convictions to
01:06:02
be reviewed by the New South Wales Attorney-General. For Kathleen Folbigg, this news couldn't
01:06:08
have been more welcome. By this point, she had served 12 years of her sentence, two of them in
01:06:15
solitude, and she'd never wavered from her position that she was innocent. The truth was that, like many other new
01:06:23
mothers, Kathleen had struggled with the identity shift that comes with being a parent.
01:06:29
While she had loved Craig deeply in the early years of their marriage, she grew to resent the fact that the overnight
01:06:35
parenting duties always fell to her. Craig was, and always had been, an incredibly deep sleeper.
01:06:43
Once his head hit the pillow, he was out for the count until morning, and he joked that a bomb could go off without
01:06:49
waking him. None of the babies' cries ever woke him, leaving Kathleen to deal with the nights
01:06:55
alone. As someone who had always been a big sleeper herself and didn't like to stay
01:07:02
up late, the lack of sleep or time to herself really took its toll on Kathleen. Because of this, establishing
01:07:10
predictable routines with each of the children's bedtimes was important to her. She found it frustrating that Craig
01:07:17
didn't seem to take this seriously, and instead interpreted her as being somewhat neurotic and overly
01:07:23
controlling. It wasn't just the lack of sleep that bothered Kathleen. Shortly after Patrick died, she found
01:07:32
Craig in what looked like a romantic embrace with one of her friends. Years later, after Sarah was born, she
01:07:41
suspected that Craig might be interested in other women. Craig had also made some comments about
01:07:47
Kathleen's weight gain over the years, which contributed to her own self-consciousness.
01:07:53
It was around this time that their relationship reached rock bottom, with Kathleen feeling severely insecure,
01:08:00
unattractive, and rejected by Craig. While she first started exercising as a means to lose weight, she grew to love
01:08:09
the other benefits that exercise gave her. Going to the gym wasn't the vain obsession that the prosecution had
01:08:16
depicted, but a way to keep her mental health in check. It had always bothered Kathleen that
01:08:22
such a big deal was made about her going back to the gym just days after Laura died.
01:08:28
After all, Craig had gone back to work at the same time, and nobody had batted an eye at that.
01:08:35
Then there was the scrutiny about her perceived lack of emotion following her children's deaths.
01:08:42
When Kathleen was a child, her foster mother often reacted negatively anytime Kathleen was in a bad mood.
01:08:49
She therefore grew up believing that she had to keep any negative emotions in check because she didn't want to inflict
01:08:56
them on other people. In reality, the deaths of all four of her children had devastated Kathleen.
01:09:04
She had simply chosen not to wallow in her grief and to do her best to get on with life.
01:09:10
After she was suspected of killing her children, she detached herself from the situation, a coping mechanism she'd
01:09:17
learned when she entered the foster system as a three-year-old. It also helped her survive in prison,
01:09:23
where she was the target of hatred and violence from other inmates. The diaries were a way for Kathleen to
01:09:31
unload her darkest feelings without burdening anyone else. She didn't use them to record feelings
01:09:38
of joy or contentment, even though these were emotions she experienced regularly.
01:09:44
Assuming that no one else would ever read them, she had just jotted her thoughts down as they poured out of her
01:09:50
without taking time to explain. It was a way to purge her negative emotions, as well as try and figure out
01:09:58
what was going on in her life. For example, the comment that Sarah had left with a bit of help was a reference
01:10:06
to God or some kind of higher power having already taken her two sons. Kathleen believed in karma and fate, and
01:10:14
at the time of writing the diaries, she thought it was possible that her deceased children could communicate with
01:10:20
one another. When she wrote that she couldn't have handled another child like Sarah and
01:10:26
that Laura had saved her life by being different, she was simply reflecting on this belief.
01:10:33
Her entry about wanting Sarah to shut up and one day she did wasn't an admission
01:10:38
of guilt, but merely an observation. As for the comment that she was most scared about being left alone with the
01:10:46
baby, this wasn't because she presented a threat to them. It was because she was
01:10:51
petrified of finding them dead. Kathleen was adamant that if she had killed the children, there would be no
01:10:59
room for misinterpretation as she would have used her diaries to try and figure out why she'd done such a thing.
01:11:05
If she was guilty, she would have either confessed or taken her own life. Given how young the babies had been when
01:11:13
they died, Kathleen had very little to remember them by. The longer she spent in prison, the more
01:11:20
distant those memories became. She did what she could to maintain her sanity while serving her sentence,
01:11:27
keeping her head down to avoid poor treatment from other inmates, and leaning on the friendships she still had
01:11:33
in the outside world. Kathleen welcomed anyone who wanted to help her case, and with the petition to
01:11:40
the Attorney General being filed, she was hopeful that her side of the story would finally be believed.
01:11:50
But, the petition languished for years as Kathleen and her legal team waited with baited breath for news.
01:11:58
With nothing appearing to be happening, in August 2018, the case was covered for
01:12:03
the second time by ABC's Australian Story. Not only did the segment present expert
01:12:09
evidence suggesting that Kathleen had been wrongfully convicted, it also featured interviews with Kathleen by way
01:12:16
of phone calls from prison with her strongest supporter, a childhood friend named Tracy Chapman.
01:12:23
It was the closest thing Kathleen had ever made to a public appearance and gave her the chance to explain her side
01:12:29
of the story for the first time. Within days of the episode airing, the New South Wales Attorney General held a
01:12:37
press conference to announce that a full inquiry would be held into Kathleen Folbigg's convictions.
01:12:43
While this was excellent news for Kathleen and her supporters, there were even bigger things brewing.
01:12:50
There had always been questions about whether the Folbigg children had a genetic mutation that could explain
01:12:56
their deaths, and recent advancements in medical technology meant such testing was finally possible.
01:13:03
By studying the DNA of Kathleen, Craig, and their four children, comprehensive genetic testing known as whole genome
01:13:11
sequencing had the power to unequivocally reveal whether the children had a genetic abnormality that
01:13:17
could explain why they died. In October 2018, Kathleen provided a saliva sample and a buccal swab to a
01:13:26
team of scientists, along with her comprehensive medical history. Genome sequencing was conducted on the
01:13:33
sample, and in early December, the data was given to two leading immunologists, Professor Carola Vinuesa and Dr. Teodor
01:13:42
Arsov. They both sat down to examine the data individually, curious to see if they
01:13:48
arrived at the same conclusion. Eventually, they both looked up from their computers at the same time and
01:13:55
exclaimed in astonishment, "Calm 2." Calmodulin 2, more commonly known as Calm 2, is a crucial calcium binding
01:14:06
protein that helps control human heart function, especially the electrical signals that keep the heartbeat steady.
01:14:14
Both Professor Vinuesa and Dr. Arsov noted that Kathleen Folbigg carried a mutation to this gene that had never
01:14:21
been seen before. Such a mutation would prevent the channels that normally allow calcium to
01:14:27
enter and exit the heart from closing properly. As a result, calcium could build up and
01:14:34
cause the heart to stop beating. Other known mutations of the Calm 2 gene had been found in patients who suffered
01:14:42
from long QT syndrome, a heart rhythm disorder where the heart's electrical system takes too long to recharge
01:14:49
between beats. It can be triggered during exercise, emotional distress, or during sleep.
01:14:57
Symptoms of long QT syndrome can include fainting, seizures, heart palpitations,
01:15:02
and even sudden death, particularly in young patients. While the CALM2 mutation seen in
01:15:10
Kathleen was novel, other known mutations to the gene had been associated with sudden death in infants.
01:15:18
While Kathleen was not known to have long QT syndrome, her medical history did show instances of fainting in the
01:15:25
past, including after completing a swimming race and moments of stress. This indicated that she had an irregular
01:15:33
heartbeat. The next step was to see if Kathleen had passed this genetic mutation onto any of
01:15:40
her children. Craig Folbigg refused to provide a DNA sample of his own and was not legally
01:15:47
compelled to do so, but DNA samples from the Folbigg children could be obtained from preserved tissue samples, and in a
01:15:55
groundbreaking achievement, from their neonatal heel prick tests that were taken at birth.
01:16:02
Comprehensive genetic sequencing of the children's DNA provided a startling revelation.
01:16:08
Both Sarah and Laura Folbigg shared the same novel CALM2 mutation as Kathleen. A mutation that had the potential to be
01:16:18
fatal. The inquiry into Kathleen Folbigg's conviction commenced in the Lidcombe Coroner's Court in March 2019,
01:16:29
4 years after Kathleen's legal team first petitioned for it. The aim of the inquiry was to re-examine
01:16:36
the original evidence presented at trial in light of the new research and developments that had emerged since then
01:16:43
to see if Kathleen's case should be referred to the court of criminal appeal. In addition to a review of the medical
01:16:50
and scientific evidence relevant to the case, Kathleen was also given the opportunity to testify about her
01:16:56
incriminating diary entries for the first time. However, the inquiry's commissioner,
01:17:02
former District Court Chief Judge Reginald Blanch, denied the request for any psychological evidence to be
01:17:08
presented relating to the diaries, stating that a psychiatrist's view of the meaning of the diary entries would
01:17:15
be of no use. Craig Folbigg, who had gone on to have a child with his new wife, was strongly
01:17:22
against the inquiry. Outside court, his brother John gave a statement on behalf of the family,
01:17:29
saying, "As a family, we welcomed Cathy, loved her, supported her. We, along with the public, have endured
01:17:38
this process to discover the truth regarding the deaths of our dear Caleb, Patrick, Sarah, and Laura.
01:17:46
What has been most devastating has been that, in the end, the answer lay with Kathleen.
01:17:53
We kept our thoughts regarding her actions, her supporters' vitriolic outbursts, and our pain and our grief
01:17:59
about not only the loss of our four beautiful babies, but the loss of this part of our family group to ourselves.
01:18:08
This chapter unfolding now, we feel, was unnecessary and most definitely unwelcome.
01:18:14
However, we have endured it to ensure the justice that Caleb, Patrick, Sarah, and Laura received in 2003.
01:18:26
With numerous hearings held over the following 3 months, hopes were high for Kathleen and her supporters when Judge
01:18:32
Blanch released his 550-page report in July 2019. But much to their dismay, Blanche found
01:18:41
that the evidence relating to the calm two gene mutation wasn't compelling. Evidence had been presented at the
01:18:49
inquiry from a team of scientists who opposed Professor Vinuessa's findings on the grounds that no calmodulin deaths
01:18:56
had ever been recorded in sleeping infants. Judge Blanche subsequently concluded
01:19:02
that the science was too new and the mutation had not been proven to be harmful.
01:19:08
Furthermore, only Laura and Sarah had the mutation, meaning it couldn't be explained in all four of the children's
01:19:15
deaths. Blanche stated, On the evidence before the inquiry, I find that there is no reasonable
01:19:23
possibility that any of the four big children had a known or recognized pathogenic or likely pathogenic genetic
01:19:30
variant which caused their deaths or Patrick's faulty. In Blanche's view, it was Kathleen's
01:19:38
diary entries that still provided the most compelling non-medical evidence for her guilt.
01:19:44
He denounced the explanations she gave as to the meaning of the most incriminating entries, calling them
01:19:50
unbelievable and untruthful. Blanche was satisfied that the prosecution had interpreted the diary
01:19:57
entries correctly at the 2003 trial. Judge Blanche ultimately concluded there was no reasonable doubt about Kathleen's
01:20:06
guilt and that if anything, the new evidence presented during the inquiry only reinforced the original verdict
01:20:14
rather than undermining it. He concluded, It remains that the only conclusion reasonably open is that somebody
01:20:23
intentionally caused harm to the children and smothering was the obvious method.
01:20:29
The evidence pointed to no person other than Ms. Folbigg. Judge Blanch's decision caused outrage
01:20:40
amongst the scientific community, particularly for Professor Vinué sa. She found it bewildering that the
01:20:48
writings of a grief-stricken mother could be given more weight than the calm 2 mutation, which her team believed
01:20:54
presented a 90% probability of infant cardiac death. Concerned that inquiry had ignored the
01:21:02
available science and hadn't taken her genetic evidence seriously, Professor Vinué sa went straight to the Australian
01:21:09
Academy of Science to ask for help. The Academy reviewed the case before announcing their support for Kathleen.
01:21:18
It wasn't their aim to prove whether or not she was innocent. They simply wanted
01:21:23
to make sure that the science was being taken seriously, and in this instance, they didn't believe it was.
01:21:31
In a story for the Australian National University, Professor Vinué sa said, "The problem was the judge was trying to
01:21:39
weigh the genetic evidence with the diary evidence, and the science was complex, perhaps too complex to be
01:21:46
heard. I thought, how can we have a legal system that has difficulty understanding
01:21:51
complex science? There's something wrong with this process. Science has not been heard or
01:21:58
understood. Kathleen's life depended on the science being fully understood." In October 2019, Kathleen's legal team
01:22:10
applied to have a judicial review conducted of Blanch's report. They argued that he had demonstrated
01:22:17
apprehended bias in various aspects of his conduct and had failed to properly consider the fresh genetic evidence
01:22:24
submitted. They were particularly concerned that he had denied a psychological interpretation of Kathleen's diaries,
01:22:32
with one of Kathleen's lawyers telling the Sydney Morning Herald, "Blanche isn't a psychiatrist, he's not
01:22:40
a mother, and he hasn't lost four children. But, he still felt able to interpret
01:22:46
Kathleen's words and why she wrote them." Determined to prove the potential dangers of the CALM2 mutation, Professor
01:22:56
Vinuessa enlisted the help of a team of 27 leading international scientists who began conducting lab tests, heart cell
01:23:03
studies, and comparisons with other known deadly calmodulin mutations. Their studies confirmed that the CALM2
01:23:12
mutation seen in Laura and Sarah Folbigg was just as damaging as other known calmodulin variants that had been known
01:23:19
to kill children from cardiac arrhythmias. Not only could it cause sudden death,
01:23:25
but it could be triggered by infections such as myocarditis. Although it wasn't the main focus of
01:23:34
their research, the international team also discovered that Caleb and Patrick Folbigg carried a rare mutation of the
01:23:40
gene known as BSN, which is known to cause early-onset lethal epilepsy in mice. This was significant given Patrick's
01:23:50
epilepsy diagnosis, and while further research needed to be done in this regard, Professor Vinuessa said that it
01:23:58
highlighted that a single unifying cause of death in the four children was not needed to explain what happened.
01:24:07
Speaking about the genetic mutation to investigative journalist Quinton McDermott for his comprehensive book on
01:24:13
the case titled Meadow's Law, prominent molecular biologist Professor John Shine
01:24:19
explained that the Folbigg girls were incredibly unlucky to have inherited the CALM2 mutation.
01:24:26
Shrine stated, "If you have four people randomly running around the earth, the chance of
01:24:32
all four being hit by lightning are incredibly slim. However, if each of the four is given a
01:24:39
very large lightning rod that they carry around, their chances increase significantly.
01:24:46
It's a bit like that. Once the mutation occurs in a family, then your chance of suffering the
01:24:52
similar thing are 50%. Incredibly high." A peer-reviewed paper on the findings was published in the highly respected
01:25:04
medical journal Europace, which led to even more support from the scientific community.
01:25:11
In early March 2021, a petition was submitted to the governor of New South Wales, which was signed by over 100
01:25:18
eminent scientists and clinicians, including two Nobel Prize winners. The petition argued that Judge Blanch's
01:25:26
findings in the 2019 inquiry were counter to the scientific and medical evidence that now exists.
01:25:34
The petition ultimately stated that all four of the Folbigg children had likely died from natural causes, that the
01:25:40
evidence used to convict Kathleen was outdated, and that a miscarriage of justice had therefore occurred.
01:25:49
In what was one of the strongest scientific interventions in any criminal case in Australian history, the petition
01:25:55
called for Kathleen Folbigg to be pardoned. Given the new evidence and global pressure, the New South Wales Attorney
01:26:04
General ordered a second, more comprehensive inquiry be conducted into Kathleen's conviction, with focus on the
01:26:11
newly available genetic evidence, as well as the psychology, psychiatry, and other evidence relevant to Kathleen's
01:26:18
diary entries. The inquiry was led by former Chief Justice Tom Bathurst with evidence
01:26:24
presented over three separate hearings between November 2022 and February 2023. Final submissions were then presented in
01:26:34
April. The new scientific evidence on the calm 2 mutation was presented with various
01:26:41
experts agreeing the mutation could have caused fatal arrhythmias in Sarah and Laura Folbigg.
01:26:48
Just like in Kathleen's trial and in the 2019 inquiry, numerous experts also agreed that it was reasonable to believe
01:26:56
that Laura could have died from myocarditis. As for Patrick, a pediatric neurologist
01:27:04
said it was extremely unlikely that his lti had been caused by smothering. Instead, she thought it was likely
01:27:12
caused by a then unexplained epileptic disease that resulted in progressive neurological dysfunction and his
01:27:19
eventual death. Although there still wasn't a clear cause of death for Caleb, it was
01:27:26
presented that if his three siblings had died from natural causes, then the coincidence evidence that helped secure
01:27:32
Kathleen's manslaughter conviction against him was essentially relying on the long since discredited Meadow's Law.
01:27:41
In regards to Kathleen's supposed rage towards her children, counsel assisting submitted that caution should be taken
01:27:48
not to idealize mothers as being universally patient, nurturing, and kind. A study was presented of 63 Finnish
01:27:57
mothers who described experiencing various forbidden feelings in motherhood, the most frequent being
01:28:03
fatigue, rage, anger, aggression, and guilt. Independent psychologists and linguists
01:28:10
rejected the theory that Kathleen's diaries were evidence of guilt or akin to a confession, instead reinterpreting
01:28:18
them as expressions of grief. Judge Bathurst was scheduled to hand down a report into his findings later in
01:28:25
the year, but on May 30, 2023, he phoned the Attorney General to advise that he had already formed a firm view about the
01:28:34
matter and suggested that instead of waiting months for him to write his full report, he would provide a brief summary
01:28:40
with these recommendations in just a few days time. On Monday, June 5, 2023, Kathleen was
01:28:51
going about her day at the Clarence Correctional Facility when she was suddenly told to pack her things and
01:28:57
that a prison van was waiting outside. Judge Bathurst had agreed that there was enough evidence to indicate a reasonable
01:29:05
possibility that at least Patrick, Sarah, and Laura had all died from natural causes.
01:29:12
He didn't accept Craig's version of events from the night Sarah died, nor did he agree that the evidence had
01:29:18
established Kathleen was anything but a caring mother for her children. He also agreed with the psychological
01:29:26
evidence put forward that Kathleen's diary entries weren't admissions of murder, but the words of a quote,
01:29:33
"grieving, depressed, and traumatized mother feeling guilt at the unexplained deaths of her four children."
01:29:42
With these factors in mind, he said that the coincidence evidence that the prosecution case relied on at Kathleen's
01:29:48
trial fell away and concluded that there was reasonable doubt as to Ms. Folbigg's
01:29:54
guilt. After two decades of being labeled one of Australia's worst female serial
01:30:01
killers, the New South Wales Attorney General publicly declared that Kathleen be unconditionally pardoned.
01:30:09
He announced, "I am glad that our legal system in New South Wales contains provisions that
01:30:15
allow for the continual pursuit of truth and justice. This is a day of high emotions.
01:30:22
There are no winners from this story. It's a terrible story of four lives lost, of a grieving father, and a woman
01:30:30
who's been incarcerated when she shouldn't have been for 20 years. I think we all have to put ourselves in
01:30:37
Ms. Folbigg's shoes and let her now have the space she needs to get on with her life."
01:30:45
The pardon wasn't just excellent news for Kathleen, but for the scientific community as a whole.
01:30:52
The team of scientists and lawyers who'd supported Kathleen over the years was ecstatic.
01:30:58
Having been offered very little funding by the Attorney General's office or Legal Aid, a spokesperson for the group
01:31:04
said, "The result today brought together the science through the endeavors of our
01:31:10
great scientists with huge support from the Australian Academy of Science and the philanthropists who have committed
01:31:17
their skills and their financial resources in an extraordinary way. Without that, I don't think this would
01:31:25
be possible." The chief executive of the Australian Academy of Science pointed out that
01:31:31
Kathleen's case would have enormous implications for the Australian justice system, saying,
01:31:38
"The question must now be asked, how do we create a more science-sensitive legal
01:31:42
system, bringing to bear new, complex, and emerging science routinely, every day, and not just in exceptional
01:31:50
circumstances?" While news of the pardon was a major triumph for Kathleen's supporters, no
01:31:58
one was more ecstatic than Kathleen. Unable to fully wrap head around what was happening, she was escorted from
01:32:05
prison to the Coffs Harbour home of her best friend, Tracy Chapman, who had stood by her side all these years.
01:32:13
Kathleen knew exactly how she wanted to spend her first night of freedom, soaking in the bath, eating a T-bone
01:32:20
steak, and spending quality time with friends without the limitations of a prison visit.
01:32:27
But, the vindication of her pardon didn't eradicate decades of trauma. Tracy told reporters,
01:32:35
"I know the past 20 years have been horrific for Kathleen, not least for the pain and suffering she has had to endure
01:32:42
following the loss of her four children. They were gorgeous children. They are all missed every day."
01:32:53
Craig Folbigg released a statement via his lawyer saying that his view about Kathleen's guilt had not changed
01:33:00
whatsoever. He reminded the public that despite the pardon, Kathleen hadn't been acquitted,
01:33:07
and her convictions were still in place. She might be free, but in Craig's eyes,
01:33:12
that didn't mean she was innocent. Much had been made in the media about Craig's allegations over the years.
01:33:21
As journalist Quentin McDermott observed in his book, Meadows Law, "At the heart of the evidence given by
01:33:28
Craig were the negative observations he made about Cathy's mothering skills. This was rich considering how little
01:33:36
help he himself gave her at home." Five months later, in November 2023, Bathurst handed down his extensive
01:33:46
619-page report into the findings of the inquiry. He said the evidence demonstrated that
01:33:54
Kathleen was a loving and caring mother who sometimes got angry and frustrated with her children, which was nothing out
01:34:01
of the ordinary for primary caregivers. He found that the evidence, {quote} provides no support for the proposition
01:34:10
that she killed her four children. Bathurst referred Kathleen's case to the Court of Criminal Appeal with the
01:34:17
general assumption that her conviction would be quashed. And on Thursday, December 14, 2023,
01:34:27
it was. A panel of appellate judges reviewed Judge Bathurst's report and unequivocally agreed with his findings,
01:34:35
declaring that all five convictions against Kathleen be formally quashed. It was the news Kathleen Folbigg had
01:34:43
been waiting 20 years to hear. Gathered in the courtroom with her lawyers, friends, and supporters, it was
01:34:52
a joyous scene as the unexpected news sunk in. Even some of Kathleen's lawyers were
01:34:58
unable to hold back their tears. Outside court, Kathleen's voice trembled as she told the gathering reporters,
01:35:08
"I hope that no one else will ever have to suffer what I have suffered. My children are here with me today, and
01:35:15
they will be close to me for the rest of my life. I love my children, and I always will."
01:35:24
While the acquittal was a major victory for Kathleen, it also served as a tragic
01:35:29
reminder of all that she had lost. Despite all the years that had passed, her children were never far from her
01:35:36
mind. In prison, she kept a photo of Caleb, Patrick, Sarah, and Laura in her cell
01:35:43
and spoke to them every day. Cleared of any involvement in their deaths, those few photos were the only
01:35:50
physical reminders she still had, with Craig claiming to have scattered the children's ashes in the ocean.
01:35:59
Craig Folbigg died of a sudden heart attack in 2024, still convinced of Kathleen's guilt.
01:36:06
His lawyer released a statement on his family's behalf saying the past few years had taken an enormous toll on
01:36:13
Craig. He was graciously remembered by those who knew him as a private man who always
01:36:20
maintained his dignity despite the extreme hardship he faced. For Kathleen, Craig's death was one
01:36:27
final blow, eradicating the possibility that the two could ever restore a sense of harmony between them.
01:36:35
She released a statement via her lawyer which said, "There were only two people on this
01:36:41
earth who knew what it felt like to lose Caleb, Patrick, Sarah, and Laura. My condolences go to the loved ones
01:36:49
Craig leaves behind." In August 2025, the New South Wales government offered Kathleen Folbigg $2
01:36:59
million in compensation for her 20-year wrongful imprisonment. Kathleen called the offer a slap in the
01:37:06
face. Not only had she lost the best years of her life, but adjusting to life in the
01:37:12
outside world had been a major struggle. She faced ongoing issues with her mental
01:37:18
health, and so much had changed in the years since she was incarcerated, particularly in regards to technology,
01:37:24
that she had to learn to live in society all over again. Having not worked for decades, she also
01:37:31
missed out on the opportunity to earn superannuation. All Kathleen wanted was to live
01:37:38
comfortably with financial security, be able to afford her ongoing mental health
01:37:42
treatment, and to repay the legal team who had so generously worked pro bono for her cause for many years.
01:37:50
When asked how much compensation she thought she should be given, Kathleen told reporters she couldn't put a number
01:37:56
on it. The New South Wales Attorney General, Michael Daley, refused to meet with
01:38:03
Kathleen or issue a formal apology. Although he has denied allegations that this is because of his personal belief
01:38:10
that Kathleen is guilty. Addressing Daley at a budget estimates hearing, Greens MP and spokesperson for
01:38:17
justice, Sue Higginson, said, "Daley is just another man continuing the cycle of injustice and inhumanity in
01:38:26
Kathleen Folbigg's life. He knows what happened to Ms. Folbigg was wrong, but he refused to look Kathleen in the
01:38:34
eye. He didn't bother asking anyone what she needs to avoid financial destitution, and he knows full well she
01:38:42
can't afford years of court battles with the New South Wales government. Our entire ex gratia payment process is
01:38:50
extremely flawed. Men in suits in smoky back rooms get to unilaterally decide what happens to
01:38:57
women who are victims of grave injustice inflicted by errors of the state. It just shouldn't be this hard to get
01:39:05
the Attorney General to care about justice and to care about women who are victims of injustice.
01:39:12
Imagine what Kathleen must be feeling having been wrongfully imprisoned for 20 years, losing four children, and now
01:39:20
being ignored by the man who is supposed to embody justice in this state." Kathleen Folbigg's wrongful conviction
01:39:30
continues to be compared to that of Lindy Chamberlain. Both were grieving mothers whose
01:39:36
parenting and seemingly sullen reactions to their children's deaths were put on trial ahead of the concrete evidence
01:39:42
against them, calling into question society's views of motherhood and the role misogyny plays when women are
01:39:48
accused of harming their children. One of Kathleen's supporters compared the two cases to Quintin McDermott while
01:39:56
Kathleen was still fighting for freedom and stated, "What struck me was that we haven't
01:40:03
learned a thing." In August 2025, Kathleen told reporters for the ABC that if she's awarded
01:40:12
further compensation in the future, she would like to help people with cases similar to hers and bring genetic
01:40:18
testing to the forefront of evidence. She would also like to support other women who have lost their children.
01:40:26
With all the time that has passed since the deaths of Caleb, Patrick, Sarah, and
01:40:30
Laura, Kathleen said she no longer balks at talking about them, stating, "They deserve the respect of being
01:40:39
spoken about."