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Our episodes deal with serious and often distressing incidents. If you feel at any time you need support, please
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contact your local crisis center. For suggested phone numbers for confidential support and for a more
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detailed list of content warnings, please see the show notes for this episode on your app or on our website.
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In the wooded hills of northern Idaho, just 30-odd miles south of the Canadian border, lies a mountain ridge in the
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Kaniksu National Forest known as Ruby Ridge. This rugged and remote location was home
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to 20 acres of land that belonged to a former US Army Special Forces officer named Randy Weaver.
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Randy had bought the land in 1983 after his wife, Vicki, who was deeply religious, began having recurring dreams
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about living on a mountain top. Believing an apocalypse was imminent and that Vicki's dreams indicated where they
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needed to be, Randy and Vicki sold their belongings, learned from an Amish community how to live without
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electricity, and built a basic cabin on their newly purchased land. It had no power or running water, but
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the Weavers made it work. Over the next decade, they turned it into a home for their four children:
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Sara, Samuel, Rachel, and Elisheba. The family lived a survivalist, self-sufficient lifestyle.
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Instead of buying food, they hunted and foraged and raised their own livestock. The children were homeschooled.
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Despite their isolated setup, the Weavers made friends with others in the area. They even took in a troubled teenager
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named Kevin Harris. Early on the morning of Friday, August 21, 1992, Kevin Harris and 14-year-old
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Samuel Weaver were walking along a trail that led to the family's cabin, accompanied by one of the Weavers' dogs,
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a Labrador retriever named Striker. The trail was wide enough to accommodate an SUV and flanked by heavy woods on
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either side. When a noise emanated from some nearby brush, Striker barked. The dog approached the brush, still
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barking loudly. Hoping Striker might have sniffed out some game they could hunt for meat,
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Samuel and Kevin followed. According to later testimony from the Weaver family, gunfire suddenly rang
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out, killing Striker. Three US Marshals who dressed from head to toe in camouflage and carrying M-16
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rifles had been hiding in the surrounding woods as part of a reconnaissance team keeping watch over
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the property. One of them shot Striker after he revealed their location. Samuel Weaver cried out,
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"You've killed my dog, you son of a bitch." As he was carrying a firearm, the 14-year-old returned fire.
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A second US Marshal shot back in his direction, hitting Samuel in the arm. Samuel began running up a hill back
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toward the family's house when he was shot again, twice in the back, and fell face down on the ground.
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Meanwhile, Kevin had dived behind a tree stump for cover before firing his own gun at the Marshals.
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He hit and killed one of them. Kevin Harris managed to flee back to the cabin. Wails and despair could be heard from
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inside its walls as the family discovered that their only son and brother had been killed.
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19 rounds had been fired during the confrontation. Three were shot by Samuel Weaver, two by
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Kevin Harris, and 14 by the three US marshals combined. The marshals' story differed somewhat
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from the Weaver family's. They had been at the property as part of a planned raid to arrest a Randy Weaver,
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a white supremacist who'd been on the radar of multiple law enforcement agencies for years.
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In 1985, a neighbor had accused him of threatening to kill then US President Ronald Reagan, the governor of Idaho,
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and Pope John Paul II. It was said that Randy was a member of the racist terror group Aryan Nations,
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and that he had a large cache of firearms. In 1986, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
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and Firearms, known as the ATF, learned of Randy Weaver after one of their informants met him at the World Aryan
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Congress, a convention where American neo-Nazis called for the creation of a new white
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and male-dominated homeland. Randy met with the informant several times and suggested they form a group to
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fight what he called the Zionist Organized Government. This was his term for the United States
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government, referencing an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that claims Jews secretly run Western states.
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The ATF later charged Randy Weaver with selling their undercover informant two shotguns with barrels that had been
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sawed off below the legal minimum length. In October 1990, a grand jury indicted
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Randy for possession of illegal weapons. He was granted bail but failed to appear
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in court for his scheduled trial date. It was said that Randy possessed multiple firearms and arresting him at
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his own residence was therefore deemed too dangerous. This led to the US Marshals attempting
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to arrange for Randy to surrender himself peacefully. After four months of failed
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negotiations, on Friday, August 21, 1992, the US Marshals descended on the Weaver property under cover of darkness
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in a planned raid that resulted in 14-year-old Samuel Weaver, a US Marshal named William Bill Degan, and the
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Weaver's dog being killed. In the Marshals' version of events, Randy Weaver had been with Samuel,
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Kevin, and Striker as they approached the brush. They claimed that when Striker exposed
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their locations, they shouted to identify themselves, which led to Kevin Harris firing at them and initiating the
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confrontation. Deputy US Marshal Degan, who Kevin had mortally wounded, fired seven rounds
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back while another Marshal shot Striker, scared the dog would attack. It was then that Samuel Weaver started
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firing. Ballistics reports indicated that Samuel was killed by Deputy US Marshal Larry
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Cooper, though these reports weren't conclusive. Cooper denied shooting Samuel, saying he
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hit Kevin Harris instead. Though there was no evidence that Kevin was struck at all.
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The FBI later stated that they hadn't realized Samuel Weaver was dead until days after the shootout.
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The altercation led to a standoff between law enforcement and the Weaver family.
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While the Weavers barricaded themselves in their home, the Marshals radioed for reinforcements.
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State police, ATF agents, an FBI hostage rescue team, and FBI snipers took up locations around the property.
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Given the drastic situation with two people already dead, one of those a member of federal law enforcement, and a
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family said to be armed and to dangerous, the FBI amended its usual rules of engagement.
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Ordinarily, an FBI agent can only fire against someone if they or other agents are in danger of bodily harm or death.
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At Ruby Ridge, agents would be permitted to fire at any adult male holding a weapon as long as the shot could be
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taken without endangering children. In the wake of the initial shootout, members of the Weaver family had managed
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to collect Samuel's body from where it lay dead on the ground and moved him to a shed.
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On Saturday, August 22, they made plans to bury him. Before laying his son to rest, Randy
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Weaver left the cabin to visit him one last time. He was joined by his 16-year-old
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daughter, Sara, and family friend, Kevin Harris. Randy Weaver was lifting the latch to
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the shed where Samuel's body lay when a shot rang out. An FBI sniper named Lon Horiuchi, who
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had been watching the scene from 200 yards to the north had taken fire. The shot struck Randy in his back with
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the bullet exiting his right armpit. Injured, but not incapacitated, Randy turned and ran back towards the cabin
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with Sara and Kevin. Sara did her best to shield her father from being shot again, realizing that he
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was the target, and pushed him in front of her towards the cabin. Vicki Weaver stood in the cabin's
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doorway holding the door open for them with her 10-month-old daughter Elisheba in her arms.
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Randy and Sara raced indoors with Kevin behind them. As he crossed the threshold, Agent
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Horiuchi fired another shot aiming for Kevin. But the bullet struck Vicki first,
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fatally tearing through her face before hitting Kevin Harris in the chest. Vicki fell to the floor with her infant
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daughter still in her arms. Kevin was badly injured and begged Randy to kill him and put him out of his
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misery. Randy refused. The Weavers felt like they were being hunted. They had no faith in the federal
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government and refused to trust the FBI negotiators who tried to arrange for their surrender.
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The standoff went on for days with the Weaver family holed up inside their cabin and federal agents surrounding the
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property. A crowd of spectators and protesters sympathetic to the Weavers gathered at
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the base of the mountain. Some carried signs that decried the actions of federal law enforcement.
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One read, "Federal informant, federal charges, federal attack. I'm fed up. Are you?
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Stand up before it's too late. Eventually, a former US Army Special Forces member with similar politics to
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Randy Weaver was called in to help. Over 3 days, he managed to convince Randy to surrender, promising that he
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would assist in getting Randy a fair trial. The standoff finally came to an end on
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Monday, August 31, 11 days after it began. Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris, who recovered from his bullet wound after
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the surrender, were charged with multiple offenses, including the murder of the US Marshal.
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Both men were acquitted of this most serious crime at a federal trial. Ballistic reports revealed that Randy
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Weaver hadn't fired a single shot during the entire standoff. In the end, Randy was sentenced to 18
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months in for missing his original court date and violating bail conditions. He later filed a $200 million civil suit
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against the government for the wrongful deaths of his wife and son. In 1995, the government settled the
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case, agreeing to pay Randy Weaver $100,000 and $1 million to each of his three daughters.
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The events at Ruby Ridge sent shockwaves through the United States and had significant ramifications.
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The media and the public were broadly critical of how the various federal agencies had handled the case.
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A special task force report and a Senate subcommittee report both agreed that the
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rules of engagement were unconstitutional. They also broadly agreed with the Weavers' version of how the altercation
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began. Agent Lon Horiuchi, the FBI sniper who shot killed Vicki Weaver, was charged
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with involuntary manslaughter, though the case against him was ultimately dismissed.
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There were no criminal convictions for the deaths of either Samuel or Vicki Weaver.
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For many Americans, the Ruby Ridge incident was seen as a shocking example of state overreach and unnecessary
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government interference into the lives of private citizens. Roughly 2,000 mi away, at the Mount
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Carmel Center east of Waco, Texas, members of the Branch Davidian Church were among those taking note.
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For some time now, their leader, David Koresh, had been predicting an impending apocalypse on their land, which would
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take the form of government persecution. "What are you going to do 6 months from
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now when this is all surrounded by tanks?" he'd asked several followers in June of 1992.
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2 months later, as they followed reports of the Ruby Ridge siege on television news, David Koresh wondered aloud,
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"Is it a dress rehearsal for an attack on Mount Carmel?" The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and
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Firearms, abbreviated to the ATF, is a US federal law enforcement agency that falls under the Department of Justice.
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Initially founded as a way to collect taxes on imported spirits and tobacco, the agency's role evolved over time,
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taking on a more investigative and regulatory role. The ATF is responsible for investigating
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crimes that involve alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives, which has made it an unpopular agency at times.
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This has been attributed to the ATF's role in regulating products that many Americans enjoy and don't want
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regulated. In the words of author Jeff Guinn, the agency has become something of a public
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punching bag. The ATF wasn't just unpopular with the public. It struggled with lawmakers,
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too. It received less funding than other federal law enforcement agencies, had fewer employees, and frequently came
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under attack by the country's powerful gun lobby, the National Rifle Association.
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The ATF's role as the nation's enforcer of gun laws meant it was often accused of trampling on citizens' Second
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Amendment rights, the amendment in the US Constitution that enshrines the rights of Americans to bear arms.
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In the early 1990s, the ATF was in such dire financial straits that agents in charge of divisional offices began
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issuing fines to other agents if they were late for meetings, just so they had some money they could use to purchase
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necessary equipment. The ATF undertook its own investigations, but was also often
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called upon by other agencies to provide support as required. In early June of 1992, the ATF received
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one request from a sheriff's department in Texas who said that they were dealing
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with a situation in McLennan County, near the city of Waco. It had all started with some reports of
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troubling things being sent in the mail. Larry Gilbreath was a driver for the United Parcel Service, or UPS, and he
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had been delivering parcels to the Mount Carmel compound since 1986. Sometimes he made several deliveries in
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one week. Initially, he'd thought nothing of it. The residents who lived at Mount Carmel
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were viewed by the broader community in Waco as maybe a little odd, but harmless
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and decent people. Larry would drive their parcels out to the Mount Carmel compound, where David
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Koresh often signed for them personally. He was always friendly, and Larry enjoyed chatting with him about cars and
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other hobbies. But, things changed over time. While the parcels had initially borne
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packaging labels that indicated they contained medication or other personal items, larger boxes had started arriving
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from an arms dealer. More and more kept coming. Larry thought it was strange that a
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religious organization would be ordering so many firearms. In early 1992, David Koresh began
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redirecting these deliveries, so they weren't addressed to the Mount Carmel compound. Instead, Larry had to take
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them to a garage that they rented several miles away, known as the Mag Bag. The Branch Davidians who met Larry to
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sign for the packages began dressing in military fatigues. In Larry's view, they looked more like a
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militia than a church group. They were also ordering ammunition and magazines for .223 rifles, AK-47s, and
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AR-15s. They even ordered a grenade launcher. One day in February of 1992, Larry
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dropped one of the parcels marked for delivery to the Mag Bag and it broke open.
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Inside were about 50 hand grenades. Several rolled out of the box. Terrified, Larry jumped back before
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realizing that they were just the grenade casings and they had no explosives inside.
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Still, the sight of so many potential bombs was alarming, especially as Larry had noted that another delivery was
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marked as containing black powder, a substance used to make explosives. Larry told his wife about the incident,
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who in turn reported it to the local Sheriff's Department. The Gilbreaths told the Sheriff about
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the other deliveries as well. It wasn't illegal to receive large shipments of firearms in Texas, but the
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grenades and black powder were more concerning. Plus, some of the ammunition David
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Koresh was ordering was for fully automatic rifles, suggesting he might be illegally converting semi-automatic
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weapons. The size of these orders was large enough to suggest a substantial operation.
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A number of the Sheriff's deputies also remembered David Koresh's shootout with the George Roden several years earlier
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and how he was subsequently trialed for attempted murder. On Thursday, June 4, 1992, McLennan
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County Sheriff's Department reached out to the ATF to request an investigation. Agent Davey Aguilera began looking into
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the matter, tracing David Koresh's purchases of firearms and ammunition. He also interviewed neighbors who lived
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near the Mount Carmel compound to see if they had noticed anything strange. One neighbor, a military veteran,
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mentioned that in January of 1992, he'd heard machine gun fire coming from Mount
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Carmel. After learning that Koresh had purchased weapons from a local dealer named Henry
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McMahon, Agent Aguilera spoke to him as well. Henry told the agent that he and Koresh
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were in business together. Koresh and his Branch Davidians assembled AR-15s from other parts, then
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Henry sold them at gun shows. Agent Aguilera informed Henry that this arrangement could make him liable for an
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11% federal tax on any proceeds, and he'd need to keep meticulous records of every transaction.
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This prompted Henry to cancel the arrangement with Koresh, as he didn't want the extra cost or hassle.
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While he was speaking with Agent Aguilera, Henry called Koresh to tell him that the ATF was there asking
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questions. Now, the Branch Davidians would know they were being investigated. "Well, if there's a problem, tell them
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to come out here," Koresh replied. But the agents declined his invitation, as they didn't yet have a warrant to
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search the compound and doubted Koresh would show them everything they wanted to see.
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Agent Aguilera continued working on his investigation, certain that Koresh was involved in illegal firearm activities.
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He also sent a report on his discoveries to ATF headquarters, asking for permission to seek a search warrant for
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Mount Carmel from federal court. While Agent Aguilera was waiting to hear back about his request, news broke of
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the siege at Ruby Ridge in which two innocent civilians and a US Marshal had been killed.
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This led to significant negative publicity for the ATF along with other federal law enforcement agencies.
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Two months after the conclusion of the siege, Agent Aguilera was informed on Monday, November 2, that his request to
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search Mount Carmel had been denied. The denial of Agent Aguilera's request didn't mean the case was closed. It just
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meant that Aguilera had to keep digging for more evidence. Understaffing at the ATF meant that he
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was mostly working solo with occasional help here and there. He'd managed to track down multiple arms
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dealers who'd sold to Koresh and established that the Branch Davidians possessed enough firearms, conversion
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kits, and munitions to suggest that they were likely involved in illegal sales. But, Aguilera hadn't found any actual
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evidence that proved criminal activity. In December 1992, he began focusing more
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on interviewing individuals who might have witnessed illegal activity. Agent Aguilera spoke to Child Protective
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Services worker Joyce Sparks about her investigation into the Branch Davidians. Amongst her general recollections of
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what she'd seen at Mount Carmel, Joyce described how a little boy there had told her that all of the adults had guns
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and practiced using them a lot. Joyce had asked if David Koresh if she could see the guns kept at the compound.
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After a 30-minute wait, Koresh escorted Joyce to an old yellow school bus that lay next to the compound.
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It was mostly buried under the ground. At one end of the bus was a refrigerator marked with bullet holes.
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Three rifles lay on the floor. Koresh explained that he did his target practice there as the bus muffled the
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sound and didn't disturb the neighbors. Joyce also related how Koresh had given an ominous warning stating,
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"My time is coming. When I reveal myself as the messenger and my time comes, what
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happens will make the riots in LA pale in comparison." He was referring to the 1992 Los Angeles
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riots, which saw a series of violent riots and civil disturbances across Los Angeles County during May and April of
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that year. In total, 63 people had been killed and 2,383 were injured. Agent Aguilera interviewed some
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ex-Branch Davidians including Mark Breault who was living in Australia and had started a campaign against Koresh
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after becoming disillusioned with his former mentor. Mark described how he had participated
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in shooting practice alongside Koresh and said that Branch Davidians took it in turns to stand guard around the
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building while armed. He himself had done so with a loaded gun. According to Mark, Koresh had told them
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that if anyone attempted to enter the property, they should shoot to kill. During one conversation, Koresh had
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disparaged gun laws as ludicrous because, quote, "An individual could easily acquire a
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firearm and the necessary parts to convert it to a machine gun. But, if a person had the gun and the
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parts together, they would be in violation of the law." This was significant as it was an open
00:27:11
admission that Koresh knew he was breaking the law by converting firearms. Another witness who had left the Branch
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Davidians in June 1992 said that Koresh's arsenal had grown even larger in recent months.
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This individual had seen a .50 caliber weapon so large that it was mounted on a tactical bipod and had heard of other
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similar firearms on the property. There were also around 15 AR-15s, 25 AK-47s, several pistols, and three street
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sweepers, a 12-gauge 12-shot shotgun with a spring-driven drum magazine and folding buttstock.
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Each time a street sweeper's trigger was released after firing a shot, the magazine rotated to position the next
00:28:04
shot for firing. Agent Aguilera also spoke to one of Koresh's former wives, Robyn Bunds, her
00:28:13
brother, and her mother, Jeannine, who had also slept with Koresh with the intention of conceiving a child.
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They told the agent that Koresh had screened violent movies about the Vietnam War and told his followers they
00:28:27
were training films. Branch Davidians armed with guns took turns standing guard around the building
00:28:35
and there were sometimes shooting drills with AK-47s. The Bunds also told Aguilera that there
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were foreigners at Mount Carmel who had overstayed their visas, and that Koresh had fathered more than a dozen children
00:28:51
with various women and girls. They explained that no man other than Koresh were permitted to engage in
00:28:59
sexual activity. Janine Bunds told the agent that she had personally delivered some of the babies
00:29:07
born to female Branch Davidians. The youngest mother had been just 11 years old.
00:29:15
Although the sexual abuse of minors and immigration violations did not fall under the ATF's jurisdiction, these
00:29:23
other alleged crimes strengthened Aguilera's case, especially as it was against federal law for illegal aliens
00:29:31
to receive a firearm. Upon performing background checks on the Branch Davidians, Agent Aguilera found
00:29:39
that more than 40 were foreign nationals, many of whom were there illegally. Several others had been arrested,
00:29:47
convicted, or were under investigation for various crimes, ranging from fraud to smuggling and narcotics offenses.
00:29:57
Agent Aguilera had enough to obtain the search warrant he needed to raid Mount Carmel.
00:30:03
But he still wanted evidence that was stronger than statements from former members who'd left the compound years
00:30:09
earlier. On Friday, October 2, 1992, the ATF installed a pole camera along the road
00:30:18
near the property in the hopes of capturing photographic proof of the Branch Davidians shooting drills.
00:30:25
Unfortunately, the footage captured by the cameras was too poor to be of any use.
00:30:32
Their next option was to send in some undercover agents. >> The Mount Carmel compound had a long
00:30:47
driveway and it sat 200 yards back from Double A Ranch Road. It was a narrow road that could barely
00:30:54
accommodate two lanes and much of it was unpaved. It was mostly packed dirt framed by
00:31:01
gravel along its margins. Sprawling sparse fields lay on either side with an occasional house here and
00:31:08
there. As there were just a few other properties within the vicinity of Mount Carmel, everybody there knew one
00:31:15
another. One of these properties sat directly across the road from the Mount Carmel
00:31:21
driveway. In late 1992, the tenants of that house moved out explaining that the property's
00:31:28
owner wanted to perform some minor repairs. In January 1993, eight men in their late
00:31:35
20s and early 30s moved in. They told the Branch Davidians and other neighbors that they were students at
00:31:42
Texas State Technical College in Waco. Not long after they arrived, they threw a housewarming party and invited the
00:31:50
Branch Davidians. In reality, they were undercover ATF agents tasked with surveilling the Mount
00:31:57
Carmel compound. Their new home was dubbed the undercover house. They kept cameras aimed at the compound
00:32:06
at all times and noted all the comings and goings of its residents. The ATF estimated that about 75 people
00:32:14
lived at Mount Carmel, but it was difficult to obtain an accurate count of the residents due to the way people came
00:32:20
and went from the building. There were always people milling about. In actuality, Mount Carmel's population
00:32:29
was almost double that amount. There were 130 Branch Davidians there including 42 men, 45 women, and 43
00:32:37
children aged 15 and younger. The undercover agents also wanted to get a sense of what the compound's internal
00:32:46
layout was like. On Thursday, January 28th, 1993, two of the undercover agents walked over to
00:32:54
Mount Carmel and tried to strike up a conversation with some of the men working outside on the property.
00:33:01
After a few of these visits, Agent Robert Rodriguez received an invitation from David Koresh to attend a Bible
00:33:08
study. The two seemed to build a rapport, with Koresh spending time talking to Agent
00:33:13
Rodriguez one-on-one. He warned the undercover agent that his group was being persecuted by law
00:33:20
enforcement, and said that Rodriguez would also be watched by police if he continued to visit.
00:33:27
Koresh spoke disparagingly of regulations that made it illegal to convert semi-automatic rifles to
00:33:34
automatic ones without a permit. He referred to the United States as the dragon and said it was going to be
00:33:42
destroyed. Over the next few weeks, Rodriguez visited a few more times, and even
00:33:49
participated in shooting practice with Koresh. On Sunday, February 21st, Koresh suggested that Rodriguez join a two-week
00:33:58
Bible study course that was beginning in just over a week's time on Monday, March
00:34:03
1st. After completing the course, Rodriguez could move into the compound as part of
00:34:09
becoming a Branch Davidian. Joining the Branch Davidians and living at Mount Carmel would give Robert
00:34:16
Rodriguez complete access to the inside of the compound, allowing him to provide
00:34:21
a detailed description of its layout to his superiors. He proposed that he take Koresh up on
00:34:28
his offer, but his proposal was rejected. The ATF already had another plan. While the undercover operation had been
00:34:40
getting underway, tactical leaders at the agency had been developing plans for how they would serve search warrants at
00:34:46
the property. They wanted the operation to be seamless. Recently, the ATF had been on the
00:34:53
receiving end of negative publicity from all sides. The Ruby Ridge siege had led to strong
00:35:00
criticism from the public and conservative politicians who were already disinclined to like the agency.
00:35:08
Late in 1992, reports that female ATF agents had been sexually harassed by male colleagues led to negative
00:35:15
attention from the political left as well. There were rumors that the newly elected
00:35:21
US President Bill Clinton wanted to merge the ATF with the FBI. The ATF's officials wanted to improve
00:35:29
their optics. They needed a big win that would reflect well on their work. They had hopes that win would be a
00:35:37
successful raid of the Branch Davidian compound. Ideally, they would just arrest a David
00:35:44
Koresh away from the compound when he left to conduct a business elsewhere. That would ensure the safety of the many
00:35:51
followers who lived at Mount Carmel. But, the ATF received inaccurate reports that Koresh never left the compound. So,
00:36:00
they didn't put together a plan for how such an arrest might be achieved. Usually, the ATF used one of two methods
00:36:08
when conducting a raid. The first was dubbed surround and call out, where they would approach a
00:36:15
residence and call out to its occupants to surrender peacefully. The other was known as a dynamic entry
00:36:22
and involved bursting into a location before the suspects inside had time to prepare.
00:36:28
Everything the ATF thought they knew about the Branch Davidians made the first option a no-go.
00:36:35
There was fear they might destroy evidence, use their firearms to attack, or enact a mass suicide rather than
00:36:42
surrender. They also had enough food in the form of military style ready-to-eat meals to
00:36:48
sustain them for months. The problem with the dynamic entry was that Mount Carmel was in a difficult
00:36:56
spot to launch a surprise attack. It sat on top of a small hill with no ground cover around it.
00:37:04
Any approach by the ATF would be seen by the Branch Davidians before they arrived.
00:37:11
Even though Koresh kept strict controls over the group's firearms and they were locked away when not in use, they'd
00:37:17
still have time to grab their weapons. Then they could fire at approaching agents who'd be left completely exposed.
00:37:26
Plus, there were many women and children who lived at the property. The last thing the ATF wanted was
00:37:33
another situation where innocent civilians were killed. Intelligence gathered by Agent Aguilera
00:37:41
helped them come up with an alternative idea. He'd learned that every morning of the
00:37:46
week except for Saturdays, the men at the compound went outside by 10:00 a.m. at the latest and worked on excavating a
00:37:54
large pit intended as a tornado shelter. Maybe the ATF could catch them by surprise before they had time to grab
00:38:02
weapons from the compound by driving up in pickup trucks with cattle trailers hitched to the back.
00:38:09
That would make them look like regular road users instead of law enforcement. When the Branch Davidians saw them
00:38:16
heading up the driveway, they would probably assume they'd just taken a wrong turn.
00:38:23
It was decided that helicopters would also fly overhead as a kind of diversion from the pickup trucks.
00:38:30
Snipers would also take up position in the undercover agent's house nearby, just in case.
00:38:37
As the pickup trucks pulled up, agents would burst out from the cattle trailers and subdue the men at the pit.
00:38:44
Another group would climb into the compound via a ladder to secure the gun room inside, making sure no one else
00:38:51
could gain access. Meanwhile, other agents would announce themselves at the front door, then use a
00:38:58
battering ram to gain entrance. Female ATF agents would herd the women and children together and keep them calm
00:39:06
in a separate area of the compound. After the scene was contained, the agents would search the compound and
00:39:13
seize illegally converted weapons along with any other illicit materials they might find.
00:39:20
76 ATF agents would participate in the raid, and about half of these were members of the agency's elite tactical
00:39:27
units known as the special response teams, or SRTs. Agents from all over the country would
00:39:34
arrive in Texas several days beforehand to be deployed at Fort Hood Army base for briefings, special training
00:39:41
exercises, and rehearsals. Then, they would be relocated to Waco the night before the scheduled raid.
00:39:49
It would be the biggest raid in the agency's history and was dubbed Operation Trojan Horse.
00:39:56
The go word to signal the launch of the raid was showtime. The ATF director signed off on the plan
00:40:05
in mid-February, and Operation Trojan Horse was scheduled for Monday, March 1, until a last-minute complication changed
00:40:14
everything. By early 1993, Branch Davidians had been making occasional headlines in the Waco
00:40:24
Tribune-Herald for a number of years. The newspaper had covered the 1988 trial of eight Branch Davidians for attempted
00:40:32
murder, and in April 1992, they ran several articles about a mass suicide that was rumored to be planned at Mount
00:40:39
Carmel. Stories about so-called cult groups always attracted interest from readers
00:40:45
and made for a change of pace to the usual daily news. Mark England and Darlene McCormick were
00:40:52
the journalists of the Waco Tribune-Herald known to cover the Branch Davidians. In October 1992, they received reports
00:41:01
from sources that the group was being investigated by the federal government for possessing illegal weapons.
00:41:09
When Darlene McCormick had dug deeper into the matter, one of her sources told her how David Koresh had claimed the
00:41:15
divine right to take every man's wife. They also alleged that he had boasted of having sex with underage girls, and he'd
00:41:24
abused children both physically and psychologically. Darlene McCormick and Mark England began
00:41:32
putting together an investigative series on the Branch Davidians. It was ready for publication by early
00:41:39
January 1993, but its release was postponed after ATF officials confirmed with the newspaper that a raid was being
00:41:47
planned. The agency wanted the paper to hold off on publication until after the raid.
00:41:55
They initially told the editors that the raid would happen on February 22, then changed it to March 1, and then moved it
00:42:02
to an indefinite date. After much back and forth, the agency refused to provide an exact date for of
00:42:10
operation or even a window for when it was likely to occur. Tired of holding off on the story, and
00:42:18
believing the public had a right to know what was being alleged about the church
00:42:22
group, the Waco Tribune-Herald published the first article in the series on Saturday, February 27, 1993.
00:42:31
Under the headline, The Sinful Messiah, the article opened with the words, "If you are a Branch Davidian, Christ
00:42:40
lives on a threadbare piece of land 10 miles east of Waco called Mount Carmel. He has dimples, claims a ninth-grade
00:42:48
education, married his legal wife when she was 14, enjoys a beer now and then, plays a mean guitar, reportedly packs a
00:42:58
9-mm Glock, and keeps an arsenal of military assault rifles, and willingly admits that he is a sinner without
00:43:05
equal." Spread across three pages, the article went on to outline the allegations
00:43:13
against 33-year-old David Koresh, noting that authorities have done little to prosecute Koresh for his alleged crimes.
00:43:21
It described how many former members had left the group, but that Koresh remains
00:43:27
with about 75 faithful in a compound they built to await the end of the world. Former cult members and authorities say
00:43:35
it is heavily armed. The newspaper also ran an editorial imploring local authorities to take
00:43:43
action against Koresh. The ATF had originally planned to execute the raid on Monday, March 1.
00:43:56
After learning that the Waco Tribune-Herald was beginning a series about the Branch Davidians 2 days before
00:44:01
the intended raid, the ATF decided to change their plans. Worried the articles might make the
00:44:08
Branch Davidians cagier and more alert to danger than usual, they would bring the raid forward.
00:44:15
They couldn't move it to the day of the articles publication as most of the agents participating in the operation
00:44:21
would have only just arrived and needed more time to prepare. Instead, the raid would take place the
00:44:29
day after the story ran on Sunday, February 28th. On Saturday, February 27th, undercover
00:44:38
agent Robert Rodriguez visited Mount Carmel with a copy of the paper to show the group.
00:44:44
After David Koresh read the articles, he seemed concerned. At a sermon in the chapel that day,
00:44:52
Koresh spoke about the coverage and how an attack from Babylon was clearly impending adding,
00:44:59
"Now for sure, they'll be coming. Remember what I taught, how we have rehearsed.
00:45:07
It seemed as though Koresh was clearly anticipating some kind of intervention. Agent Rodriguez reported back to his
00:45:15
superiors stating that while Koresh and his followers had been unhappy about the
00:45:19
articles, they'd still gone about their usual routine. He also noted that he hadn't seen any
00:45:25
guns out while at the compound. This seemed reassuring. Rodriguez's superiors told him to return
00:45:34
to Mount Carmel early the next morning before the raid to gauge the goings-on there.
00:45:41
Sunday, February 28th was a chilly morning with light rain. At 8:00 a.m., agent Robert Rodriguez
00:45:49
returned to Mount Carmel with copies of that day's Waco Tribune Herald. Everything seemed normal with no sign of
00:45:58
any preparations for an attack. He chatted with Koresh in the front compound area.
00:46:06
After reading the articles, David Koresh decided he wanted more copies of the paper. So, he asked his brother-in-law,
00:46:13
David Jones, to go to the store and buy some. David was employed as a postal worker,
00:46:20
and he drove a yellow Buick with the words US Mail painted on the door. At about 8:30 a.m., David Jones drove
00:46:29
away from Mount Carmel. As David drove along Old Mexia Road towards Waco, he spotted a car pulled
00:46:38
over the side of the road. Standing next to the car was a man wearing a windbreaker jacket emblazoned
00:46:45
with the letters KWTX, the name of a local television station. David pulled over and asked if there was
00:46:54
a problem. The man introduced himself as Jim Peeler, a TV news cameraman. He said he was looking for a nearby
00:47:03
compound called Mount Carmel, but he was lost. Thinking he was just talking to a US
00:47:10
postal worker, Jim explained that he needed to film an important police raid that was about to take place.
00:47:19
David Jones pointed out where the compound was. Then he got back into his car, did a
00:47:25
U-turn, and sped back to Mount Carmel. David Jones burst back into the compound just 15 minutes after he'd left.
00:47:38
He saw that David Koresh was still speaking to Agent Rodriguez in the front compound area.
00:47:45
Although Rodriguez believed he'd successfully infiltrated the Branch Davidians with an undercover persona,
00:47:52
the truth was that they had known he belonged to law enforcement right from the start.
00:47:57
The entire household of undercover agents had stood out like a sore thumb. Despite saying they were students, the
00:48:05
eight men looked too old to be in college and had the clean-cut look of law enforcement agents.
00:48:12
They drove new model cars and when they'd hosted a house party, they kept most of the doors inside firmly closed.
00:48:21
The Branch Davidians had realized who they really were and some had discouraged David Koresh from welcoming
00:48:28
Agent Rodriguez to their home. Koresh had simply reminded them that the Gospels told of Jesus befriending a
00:48:35
Roman Centurion. Knowing that Rodriguez was with the ATF, David Jones didn't want him to know that
00:48:44
he was now aware of the impending raid. So instead of approaching Koresh, he whispered the information to his father,
00:48:52
Perry Jones, who then summoned Koresh to another room by pretending he had a phone call.
00:49:00
After speaking with Perry Jones for a few minutes, David Koresh returned and approached Agent Rodriguez, who could
00:49:07
immediately see that something was wrong. Koresh was physically shaking and had dropped the Bible he was carrying.
00:49:16
Nervously, he told Rodriguez, "They got me once and they'll never get me again."
00:49:24
He then walked to a window and gazed out across the long driveway before moving to another window.
00:49:32
After staring outside for some time, Koresh turned back to Rodriguez and said, "They're coming, Robert.
00:49:41
The time has come." Understanding that Koresh had somehow found out about the imminent raid,
00:49:50
Rodriguez knew he had to leave the compound. Meanwhile, more and more Branch Davidians were gathering in the room,
00:49:57
watching and listening to the goings-on. Agent Rodriguez told Koresh he had to leave and meet someone for breakfast.
00:50:07
Koresh shook his hand and added, "Okay, Robert. Good luck." Rodriguez exited the compound terrified
00:50:18
that someone might shoot him from behind as he walked to his car. Trying to hide his fear, he walked the
00:50:25
30-ft distance to where he'd parked, glancing at the end of the driveway towards the undercover house as he did
00:50:31
so. He was shocked to see that all of the house's windows were open with cameras
00:50:38
and snipers clearly visible inside. If any of the Branch Davidians walked outside, they would be able to see that,
00:50:46
too. Rodriguez made it to his car and drove down the long driveway back to the undercover house.
00:50:57
Once he was inside, he called raid leader and operations second-in-command, Chuck Sarabyn, who was stationed at the
00:51:04
ATF's command post about 8 mi away. Frantically, Rodriguez explained how their cover was blown and Koresh knew
00:51:13
they were coming. In response, Agent Sarabyn asked if Rodriguez had seen any guns out while
00:51:20
inside the compound. Rodriguez said he hadn't and nor had Koresh responded to the news with a call
00:51:27
to arms. He had just been shaking and reading the Bible. Nevertheless, Rodriguez still hoped that
00:51:35
the raid would be called off. But instead, Agent Sarabyn decided, "I think it'll be okay if we go
00:51:45
quickly." At 9:10 a.m. Agent Chuck Sarabyn arrived at the staging area where the agents
00:52:01
participating in the raid were waiting. "Get geared up. We've got to go now." he
00:52:07
shouted. "They know ATF and the National Guard are coming. We're going to hit them
00:52:12
now." He ran to agents milling about the parking lot and to others waiting inside, urging all of them to hurry.
00:52:21
Within 15 minutes of Sarabyn's arrival at the staging area, the ATF special response and arrest teams were geared up
00:52:28
and crammed into the two cattle trailers that would transport them to Mount Carmel.
00:52:33
Space inside the trailers was tight and the agents were sardined together. Some of the agents felt confident while
00:52:41
others were apprehensive about going ahead with the raid if the element of surprise was gone.
00:52:47
But none felt it would be appropriate to question a decision made by the higher-ups.
00:52:53
The mood inside the trailers was later described as uncharacteristically somber.
00:52:59
Agent Sarabyn rode in the truck pulling the first trailer and maintained cellular contact with Agent James
00:53:06
Cavanaugh who was one of the top officials waiting in the undercover house. Agent Cavanaugh kept Sarabyn up to date
00:53:13
on the scene at Mount Carmel. He reported that there were no signs of any Branch Davidians.
00:53:20
"Everyone must have been inside." When the trucks with the two cattle trailers pulled up to the Mount Carmel
00:53:27
driveway at around 9:45 a.m., the mood was eerily quiet. "There's no one outside." one agent
00:53:36
radioed. "That's not good." another replied. At the same time as the trucks arrived,
00:53:44
three helicopters sent by the National Guard approached the rear of the compound.
00:53:50
They were supposed to be a diversion, but had arrived too late, failing to have the intended impact.
00:53:57
One was a Blackhawk with five ATF agents and a National Guard pilot inside. The other two were smaller models, also
00:54:04
piloted by National Guard pilots, and with ATF Operation Commander Phil O'Neal Netsky riding as a passenger in one.
00:54:13
Meanwhile, the trucks had parked in front of the compound's main building as per the plan.
00:54:20
Then the agents began to climb out. The first to emerge were those tasked with fending off the compound's dogs,
00:54:28
which were kept in a pen by the front entrance. The Branch Davidians had five dogs, an
00:54:34
80-lb brown Malamute named Fawn and her four 10-month-old puppies. The ATF dog team had fire extinguishers
00:54:43
to keep the dogs at bay, as well as shotguns just in case. One agent immediately discharged a fire
00:54:50
extinguisher at the dogs, while another approached the compound gate. David Koresh suddenly appeared in the
00:54:57
front double doorway and called out, "What's going on?" The agents identified themselves,
00:55:04
calling out that they had a warrant and ordering Koresh to freeze and get down. Koresh slammed the door shut and
00:55:12
disappeared. Accounts of the following events vary, and there are some discrepancies between
00:55:20
the government's version of events and the Branch Davidians. Kathy Schroeder, a Branch Davidian,
00:55:26
would later say that she had been looking down from her second-floor bedroom window when the ATF trailers
00:55:32
arrived. She was hiding up there with her four kids, with Koresh having told the women
00:55:38
and children to go to their rooms. Kathy's room looked out directly over the dog pen.
00:55:45
According to her memory, the first gunshots of that day were the ATF agents firing shots at Fawn and her pups almost
00:55:53
immediately upon arrival, killing the five dogs. Then, after that, "There was a lot of shooting," she told
00:56:02
author Jeff Guinn. Branch Davidian David Thibodeau wrote in his memoir that he ran into the foyer
00:56:10
just as David Koresh was slamming the double doors shut, and bullets were being fired at the doors by ATF agents
00:56:17
outside. In David's view, the shots that followed from inside the compound were a natural
00:56:23
attempt at self-defense by the Branch Davidians, who had armed themselves with 9-mm pistols and automatic and
00:56:30
semi-automatic assault rifles over the preceding hour. ATF agents said that it was the other
00:56:38
way around. The first gunshots rang out from inside the compound as soon as David Koresh disappeared behind the
00:56:45
front door. The gunfire was shot through the door so heavily that the door bowed outward.
00:56:53
The agent standing closest to the door was shot in the thumb before diving for cover in a nearby pit.
00:56:59
Other agents still emerging from the trailers became caught up in the gunfire as well.
00:57:05
The initial shots from the doorway were followed by shots from windows all along
00:57:10
the first and second floors. Bullets punctured the trailers canvas coverings and pinged off the metal poles
00:57:17
along the sides. Some hit ATF agents. The ATF's version of events has been supported by members of the media who
00:57:27
were watching the scene unfold from a ditch on Double A Ranch Road. Several reporters and a cameraman all
00:57:35
said that the shooting started from inside the compound right when the door slammed shut.
00:57:44
The helicopters that had arrived at the compound at the same time as the trailers were targets, too.
00:57:51
Official government reports note that when the helicopters were roughly 350 m from the back of the compound, they were
00:57:58
fired upon. This forced them to pull back, but it was too late for them to warn the agents
00:58:04
in the trailers to abort the raid. Two of the helicopters landed in a nearby field to check for damage, while
00:58:12
the third remained hovering above. All three had been struck by bullets. None of the helicopters were fitted out
00:58:20
with mounted guns, and the pilots were certain none of the agents on board had fired any shots.
00:58:26
Plus, they only carried sidearms, which would have had little impact when fired from such a height.
00:58:34
However, several Branch Davidians have said they were fired on from above, with the roof of the compound's tower being
00:58:40
riddled with bullets. This account was later supported by the Branch Davidians lawyer, Dick DeGuerin,
00:58:47
who entered the compound some weeks later. On the ground, ATF agents took cover behind the trucks and behind the Branch
00:58:56
Davidians cars and vans parked nearby. One agent who hid behind a white van with several colleagues later said that
00:59:04
the van seemed to bounce from all of the bullets hitting it. Other agents ducked behind an old air
00:59:11
conditioning unit that lay abandoned outside. Others crawled up to the base of the
00:59:16
compound building, pressing themselves low against the walls. When they looked up, they could see gun
00:59:22
barrels poking out of the windows above. Once they had cover, they began firing back.
00:59:30
They did admit to shooting the compound's dogs, but only after they were fired at first.
00:59:38
The ATF agents weren't as well armed as the Branch Davidians. Most had a German 9 mm submachine gun
00:59:46
known as an MP5. Some only had their handguns, and a few had shotguns. Six had AR-15s.
00:59:56
In the chaos and smoke of the gun battle, they could see little of the people they were firing at.
01:00:03
Within a few minutes, most of the ATF agents had spent all of their ammunition. They began shouting to their colleagues
01:00:10
over the gunfire and the sound of the helicopter, asking them to ration their bullets.
01:00:17
At one point, a Branch Davidian inside the compound began firing with one of the .50 caliber rifles.
01:00:24
An agent told author Jeff Guinn how its bullets tore chunks as large as cantaloupes from the ground.
01:00:32
When they hit the cars outside, chunks of the engines flew off and ripped into the agents' legs.
01:00:38
Branch Davidians also tossed hand grenades down from the windows, spraying agents with shrapnel.
01:00:46
16 ATF agents were injured. One was shot five times, but survived. Some sustained leg wounds, with one
01:00:54
agent being hit in both legs. Several others were pinned down behind a shed when another agent staggered over
01:01:02
and collapsed on top of them, his arm bleeding profusely. An agent who was also a medic braved
01:01:09
gunfire to try and reach his fallen colleagues, only to have his medical bag shot out of his hands by bullets from a
01:01:16
.50 caliber weapon. He attempted to go to the aid of a 32-year-old agent named Steve Willis,
01:01:22
who'd taken cover behind a van when he was shot through the head. Willis died at the scene.
01:01:33
Meanwhile, the ATF pushed forward to complete their mission with a team of seven agents hauling ladders through the
01:01:39
gunfire to the east side of the building. They had been tasked with climbing into
01:01:45
the compound to gain access to David Koresh's bedroom and the gun room. Their intelligence from former Branch
01:01:52
Davidians who'd left the group was that all of the weapons were kept in the same
01:01:56
room on the upper floor. The agents raised the the ladders several meters apart, giving them access
01:02:03
to the roof. Special agents Conway LeBleu, Todd McKeehan, Kenny King, and David Millen
01:02:10
climbed up to enter Koresh's bedroom. 36-year-old LeBleu made it up there first and held up his shotgun to provide
01:02:19
cover for the others. David Millen approached Koresh's bedroom window using a breaching tool to smash
01:02:26
the glass and clear away the remaining shards. As he did, gunfire exploded from the
01:02:33
room, hitting Kenny King four times. 28-year-old Todd McKeehan was struck in the chest and died immediately.
01:02:43
King tried to reach him, but was hit twice more. He rolled off the roof and landed in a
01:02:49
courtyard near the back of the compound. He would lie there bleeding for nearly 2
01:02:55
hours. Millen rolled away towards LeBleu, and they began returning fire. They tried to provide cover for the
01:03:04
second team of three who were headed for the gun room. Special agents Bill Buford, Keith
01:03:10
Constantino, and Glenn Jordan had successfully entered their window, tossing a destruction device inside
01:03:17
before crawling through. But a Branch Davidian stood in the doorway and fired at them.
01:03:23
The agents shot back and he vanished before more shots peppered the gun room's walls.
01:03:30
Some of the shots passed through to the outside roof area where agent Millen still stood.
01:03:36
He slid down the ladder to the ground to escape. Buford and Jordan were both hit.
01:03:43
They escaped through the window, dove onto the roof, and slid down to the ground.
01:03:49
Buford was struck in the face by a bullet as he lay on the ground. Another agent lay over him for
01:03:56
protection then managed to pull him to safety. Meanwhile, agent Constantino was still
01:04:03
in the gun room where the firing had stopped after his injured colleagues fled. As he tried to decide what to do, a
01:04:10
Branch Davidian appeared and shot at him. Constantino returned fire. The man fell and Constantino ran for the
01:04:19
window, hitting his head on the way out. Dazed, he rolled off the roof and sustained severe injuries to his hip,
01:04:27
leg, and knees. He was dragged out of the line of fire. Agents Millen and LeBleu were still on
01:04:36
the roof. Millen clambered down the ladder, safely reaching the ground as LeBleu provided
01:04:42
cover for him. LeBleu was then shot before he could climb down and his lifeless body fell
01:04:49
near Todd McKeehan's. Special Agent Robert Williams, age 27, had been providing cover from the ground
01:04:57
for his colleagues climbing the roof, but intense gunfire forced him to seek shelter behind a large metal object that
01:05:03
lay on the ground. A few seconds passed with no shooting. Robert Williams held his MP5 up when he
01:05:13
was suddenly struck by a bullet from a high-caliber weapon, dying instantly. People were dying inside the compound,
01:05:22
too. Jaydean Wendell, a 34-year-old former policewoman who joined the Branch Davidians, wrapped her children in
01:05:30
mattresses for protection, then began firing shots down at the ATF agents below.
01:05:36
She kept leaning out of the window to aim at them. The snipers positioned in the undercover
01:05:42
house shot at Jaydean as she leaned out too far, and she fell back to the floor,
01:05:48
dead. Her children stayed hidden beneath the mattresses, too scared to emerge. A 24-year-old Australian Branch Davidian
01:05:58
named Peter Gent had taken up a sniper position in the water tower. He posed the biggest danger to the
01:06:05
agents below, as he was in the perfect position to shoot at them over and over. They fired back at him repeatedly until
01:06:13
he was killed. 28-year-old British national Winston Blake was killed in the kitchen after
01:06:20
being shot in the head. Others were injured. Judy Schneider, the 41-year-old wife of Koresh's
01:06:28
second-in-command, Steve Schneider, and the mother of one of Koresh's children, was shot through her bedroom window.
01:06:36
The bullet struck her right forefinger and shoulder. Koresh's brother-in-law, David Jones,
01:06:42
was also injured, as was Scott Sonobe, the Branch Davidian who'd fired on ATF agents in the gun room.
01:06:50
Peter Hipsman, 28, was struck in his side, which caused major internal damage to his abdomen.
01:06:57
He repeatedly begged for someone to end his suffering, and another Branch Davidian later did as he requested,
01:07:05
shooting him twice in the back of the head. Perry Jones, David Koresh's father-in-law, was also shot in the
01:07:13
abdomen during the beginning of the siege when ATF agents fired at the front double doors.
01:07:19
The 64-year-old was seen crawling on his hands and knees screaming that he had been shot and begging to be killed.
01:07:26
He was also subsequently mercy killed. Despite being the target of the ATF's initial gunfire, David Koresh had
01:07:35
avoided being shot while standing at the double doors. He was wearing a protective vest and
01:07:41
carrying a rifle as he roamed throughout the compound over the course of the siege.
01:07:47
About 45 minutes after the first shots were fired, two ATF agents gained access to the compound entering via the rear
01:07:55
first floor. A lone Branch Davidian fired on them from a catwalk above while shouts of
01:08:02
ceasefire began to ring out through the compound. The ATF agents couldn't say who exactly
01:08:09
was shooting at them, but it was David Koresh. They shot back striking his left hip
01:08:16
bone, left wrist, and thumb. Koresh crawled away badly injured. The calls for a ceasefire had been a
01:08:28
long time coming. The alarm had first been raised just 3 minutes into the siege when Branch
01:08:35
Davidian Wayne Martin ran to his office on the first floor to call 911. A Harvard law graduate and one of
01:08:43
Koresh's inner circle, Wayne sounded distraught as his call was picked up by Lieutenant Larry Lynch of the McLennan
01:08:49
County Sheriff's Department. >> Hello. >> Hello. >> Yeah, this is Lieutenant Lynch. May I
01:08:55
help you? >> Yeah, there's 75 men around our building and they're shooting at us in Mount
01:08:59
Carmel. >> Mount Carmel? >> Yeah, tell them there are children and women in here and to call it off.
01:09:04
>> All right. All right. You know? I hear gunfire. Oh, [ __ ] Hello? >> Who is this?
01:09:14
>> Hello? >> Call it off. >> Upon learning of the gunfire at Mount Carmel, Lieutenant Lynch muttered,
01:09:21
"God almighty, that [ __ ] newspaper." Assuming the issue was connected to the ongoing series by the Waco
01:09:29
Tribune-Herald. Wayne Martin set the phone down and the call ultimately disconnected after about
01:09:36
13 minutes. Lieutenant Lynch was able to call Wayne Martin back, who shouted down the phone,
01:09:44
"Tell them to fall back. We've got women and children in danger. Call them off. We're under fire."
01:09:52
Lieutenant Lynch asked who was firing at them and ordered Wayne not to fire back.
01:09:58
"We haven't been." Wayne said. While keeping the line open with Wayne, Lieutenant Lynch began trying to call
01:10:05
the ATF. The sheriff's department had been aware of the ATF's investigation into the
01:10:11
Branch Davidians and their undercover house across the road. Lieutenant Lynch was able to make
01:10:18
contact with the ATF's operation commander, Phil Wooldridge Woynacki, who had been in one of the helicopters.
01:10:25
He began acting as a messenger between Wayne Martin and the ATF, desperately trying to arrange a ceasefire.
01:10:33
He asked Wayne to stop the Branch Davidians shooting while arranging with Agent Woynacki for the ATF agents to do
01:10:40
the same. At 10:34 a.m., after the shooting had been going on for over 45 minutes, Wayne
01:10:49
Martin told Lynch that someone else wanted to talk to him. David Koresh picked up the phone and
01:10:56
told the lieutenant, "We've known about this. I've been teaching about it for 4 years.
01:11:02
We knew you were coming and everything." When Koresh began quoting the Bible and
01:11:08
discussing his theories about the seven seals, Lynch demanded that he stopped talking about religion and focus on the
01:11:15
urgent matter at hand. He asked Koresh to call a ceasefire, which Koresh said he would consider.
01:11:24
Meanwhile, Agent James Cavanaugh in the undercover house also tried to call the compound.
01:11:31
After the phone rang for a long time without answer, it was picked up by Koresh's second-in-command, Steve
01:11:37
Schneider. Agent Cavanaugh could hear screaming and crying in the background. Steve Schneider was angry and it took
01:11:46
the agent a few minutes to calm him down. When Steve had calmed somewhat, Agent Cavanaugh proposed a ceasefire.
01:11:55
Steve was receptive, given that people inside the compound, including his wife, were wounded.
01:12:03
He began making his way through the building, telling people to stop shooting with shouts of ceasefire
01:12:10
echoing through the halls of Mount Carmel. It took several minutes for the shooting
01:12:15
to ease due to the sprawling layout of the compound and the fact that the Branch Davidians were deafened and
01:12:22
shocked by the almost hour-long shootout. Agent Cavanaugh advised his team leaders
01:12:28
to tell the agents the same thing, but the delay in the message being communicated throughout Mount Carmel
01:12:34
made the agents nervous that the whole thing was a trick. The lack of trust on both sides led to
01:12:41
the shooting resuming. Many of the ATF agents were almost out of ammunition, while the Branch
01:12:48
Davidians had a seemingly endless supply. A second ceasefire was attempted and then a third before the shooting finally
01:12:57
stopped at 11:39 a.m. Rather than being the successful public image boosting operation the ATF had
01:13:09
hoped for, Operation Trojan Horse had been an unmitigated disaster leading to multiple deaths and an ongoing crisis
01:13:17
with no clear resolution in sight. Additional law enforcement agencies would now be drawn into the standoff
01:13:25
including the Texas Rangers and the FBI. Agent Cavanaugh negotiated for the ATF agents to retrieve their fallen comrades
01:13:34
before withdrawing and leaving the compound. This included Agent Kenny King who had
01:13:41
rolled from the roof and lay bleeding in a rear courtyard for two hours. He was carried from the grounds on one
01:13:48
of the ladders. The retreating agents had to raise their hands and slowly begin exiting the
01:13:54
compound without making any sudden movements. Deceased and badly injured agents were
01:14:01
placed into vehicles to be driven from the property while the remaining agents walked away on foot.
01:14:08
A news cameraman who'd filmed part of the botched raid from the front of the compound captured footage of the
01:14:14
defeated agents limping down Mount Carmel's driveway. When he began to film the bodies of
01:14:20
those who had died, some of the ATF agents and members of local law enforcement shouted at him and pushed
01:14:26
him to the ground. ATF agents were subsequently joined by Texas Rangers and highway patrol
01:14:34
officers in setting up perimeters around Mount Carmel. Late in the afternoon, nearly six hours
01:14:40
after the shootout, some ATF agents were sent out to set up a skirmish line around the compound scouting the area.
01:14:49
Several of them were crossing a field about 350 yards behind Mount Carmel when they came across three Branch Davidians
01:14:56
attempting to enter the compound. Mike Schroeder, Norman Allison, and Bob Kendrick lived in the Mag Bag building
01:15:05
several miles away. They'd caught wind of what had been going on at Mount Carmel and wanted to
01:15:11
stand alongside their fellow Branch Davidians. They drove towards a nearby trailer
01:15:17
where several elderly Branch Davidian women lived about 2 miles from the compound, then walked the rest of the
01:15:24
way. Bob Kendrick had heart disease and struggled to keep up, eventually giving up on his mission.
01:15:32
But Mike and Norman carried on. One of the ATF agents said he ordered the men to show their hands, and
01:15:40
29-year-old Mike Schroeder responded by shooting at them. The agents fired back, killing him.
01:15:48
Norman surrendered. The Branch Davidian death toll had increased by one. Inside the compound, there was some
01:16:00
brief celebration when law enforcement initially retreated, followed by anxiety that they would soon return.
01:16:08
The Branch Davidians were also dismayed to discover that their leader had been badly wounded.
01:16:14
David Koresh was lying on blankets in an upstairs hallway, shaking and drifting in and out of consciousness.
01:16:22
His eyes kept rolling back in his head, his skin was deathly pale, and his glasses were fogging up with sweat due
01:16:29
to a fever. Koresh and all of his followers believed that he was about to die. He called his mother to say goodbye,
01:16:39
leaving a message on her answering machine. I'll be back real soon, okay? He said.
01:16:46
I'm sorry you didn't win the seals, but I'll be merciful, okay? I'll see you all in the skies.
01:16:55
However, several hours passed and Koresh remained alive. Ultimately, he decided that God didn't
01:17:03
want any more Branch Davidians to die just yet. They would still have to face off
01:17:08
against the forces of Babylon for the final battle, but Koresh couldn't say exactly when that would be.
01:17:17
The ATF reestablished contact with the compound by the early afternoon after Steve Schneider called officials to
01:17:24
talk. When they learned that David Koresh had been injured, they offered to send in
01:17:29
medical assistance. Koresh refused. The officials tried to find out exactly how many people were inside the compound
01:17:39
and how many were injured. What were their names and ages? But Koresh wouldn't provide that
01:17:46
information. He wanted to broadcast his religious teachings over local radio before he or
01:17:53
anyone else would leave the compound. Negotiators agreed and at 4:00 p.m. Koresh issued a broadcast over the
01:18:02
Dallas radio station KRLD. It was replayed twice over the following hour. The ATF agents continued trying to coax
01:18:12
David Koresh out, but he abruptly cut off communication with them at 6:14 p.m. He then made calls to cable news station
01:18:23
CNN giving an interview about the day's events. The standoff was making news across the
01:18:30
country and public interest was high. They fired on us first, Koresh told CNN. I never planned to use the weapons.
01:18:40
The problem is that people outside don't understand what we believe." He also claimed a 2-year-old child had
01:18:49
been shot and killed, which was not true. Contact with the ATF resumed later that
01:18:56
evening. Though the ATF had no trained negotiators, they did their best to reason with David Koresh, pleading with
01:19:05
him to release the compound's children to relatives or friends on the outside who would take good care of them.
01:19:12
To everyone's surprise, Koresh agreed. By midnight, he sent four children out of the compound with notes pinned to
01:19:21
their clothing detailing contact information for their temporary guardians. The ATF wouldn't be managing the
01:19:32
situation for much longer. The death of four federal agents meant that the FBI would be stepping in,
01:19:39
deploying about 20 highly trained negotiators and their hostage rescue team, an elite tactical unit experienced
01:19:47
in managing hostage crises. At 9:30 a.m. on Monday, March 1, the director of the ATF made the official
01:19:55
decision to hand over the scene to the FBI. Agents from the FBI had started arriving
01:20:03
in Waco the previous night with more arriving throughout the morning. Their leaders and negotiators would be
01:20:10
based at a command post close to Mount Carmel in an airplane hangar about 5 and 1/2 miles from the scene, while other
01:20:17
agents would have boots closer to the ground. Their first priority was to control the
01:20:24
inner perimeter around the compound. Their second was to set up a central negotiation channel.
01:20:32
In order to restrict the Branch Dividians communications to them and them alone, they cut off all but two of
01:20:39
the compound's phone lines and disabled them from calling any number other than theirs.
01:20:46
This would prevent the lines being tied up by media outlets seeking interviews or exclusives from the Branch Dividians.
01:20:54
The FBI negotiation team set up long narrow barracks where they would be working from. A large open space with a
01:21:01
small room where the telephones were set up. The Bureau's chief negotiator, Gary
01:21:08
Nessner, took over from ATF agent James Cavanaugh, who introduced him to Koresh over the phone.
01:21:15
Gary Nessner spoke with Koresh regularly throughout Monday, March 1. The two established a decent rapport,
01:21:23
despite Koresh telling agent Nessner, "We're not ready to come out." However, he did agree to release more
01:21:31
children from the compound. During the course of the day, 10 further children left Mount Carmel, aged between
01:21:39
5 months and 11 years old. None of the children sent out of the compound were David Koresh's offspring.
01:21:51
Agent Gary Nessner could see that Koresh wouldn't agree to an entire surrender, but he hoped that he might be convinced
01:21:58
to keep sending out Branch Dividians in smaller groups. Although Koresh was angry about the
01:22:03
compound's phone lines being cut off to everyone other than the FBI, he continued talking with the authorities.
01:22:11
He repeatedly assured them that the group had no intention of taking their own lives.
01:22:17
In fact, he explained that they needed to stay alive so that they could deliver their message to the outside world.
01:22:25
The FBI negotiators found David Koresh to be a puzzling character. They were accustomed to coaxing out bank
01:22:33
robbers and political terrorists. Koresh's citing of scripture and desire to discuss biblical prophecy was an
01:22:41
entirely new experience for them and one they weren't sure how to take. Byron Sage, one of the chief negotiators
01:22:50
at the scene, would later tell journalists from Frontline, "There had been some question, are we
01:22:57
dealing with a delusional personality or are we dealing with a con man? Does this guy think he's Jesus Christ or
01:23:06
is he just a con man who's using religion to deceive all the rest of the people inside?"
01:23:13
Deciding to take Koresh's proclamations at face value, the FBI continued with the strategy that had shown some
01:23:20
progress thus far. They would offer him more opportunities to broadcast his message in exchange for
01:23:26
more surrenders. Perhaps if he was given a national platform rather than just a local one,
01:23:33
Koresh could be convinced to leave the compound. Shortly after 10:00 p.m. on Monday,
01:23:40
March 1, David Koresh made the FBI an offer. If they allowed him to deliver a nationwide broadcast about the Book of
01:23:48
Revelation, then he and all of his followers would surrender peacefully. Gary Nessner proposed that Koresh record
01:23:57
his message using a tape recorder with a statement at the beginning promising to
01:24:01
leave Mount Carmel after the message was broadcast. After negotiating throughout the night,
01:24:07
Koresh agreed to this proposal early on Tuesday morning. He recorded his message and sent it out
01:24:15
for the FBI to review. It was 57 minutes long, the entirety of which was a sermon about the Book of
01:24:23
Revelation. After some further negotiations and tweaking of Koresh's message, the FBI
01:24:30
gave their approval. They arranged for the tape to be played uncut via the Christian Broadcasting
01:24:37
Network television station at around lunchtime. As a show of good faith, David Koresh
01:24:44
sent out four more children and two women in their 70s who lived in the trailer adjacent to the compound.
01:24:52
Spirits were high. The initially tense and a violent standoff looked to be coming to a peaceful end.
01:25:01
At 1:32 p.m. on Tuesday, March 2, Koresh's sermon was played on the Christian Broadcasting Network.
01:25:09
It began with Koresh stating, "I agree that upon the broadcasting of this tape to come out peacefully with
01:25:17
all the people immediately. My name is David Koresh and I am speaking to you from Mount Carmel
01:25:24
Center." As it was delivered into homes all across the United States, the FBI continued working out the logistics of
01:25:33
the surrender plan with Koresh. They would deliver a stretcher to the compound's front doors so that the
01:25:40
injured Koresh could be stretchered out. He would be the first to leave with four
01:25:45
men carrying him. A number of women and children would follow. Then Steve Schneider would
01:25:52
coordinate for the remaining people to leave, sending out one person every two to three minutes.
01:26:00
By 3:00 p.m., the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team buses were in place, ready to escort the Branch Davidians from the
01:26:07
property. Laboratory personnel stood by preparing to process the crime scene inside the
01:26:13
building. Inside the compound, the Branch Davidians packed their bags in preparation to leave.
01:26:22
Over the next hour and 45 minutes, Koresh and several of his followers repeatedly reassured the FBI that their
01:26:29
surrender was imminent. Steve Schneider explained that they were just trying to stretch the injured
01:26:35
Koresh downstairs to the lower level. "Everyone's lined up with their stuff, ready to go out," he told Gary Nestler
01:26:44
in a relieved-sounding voice. Children were standing near the front doors wearing their coats and holding
01:26:51
prized possessions such as teddy bears. Many members were emotional, exchanging hugs and tears with Koresh as they
01:26:59
braced themselves to leave. A little while later, Agent Nestler spoke to Steve Schneider again.
01:27:09
Steve explained that Koresh just wanted to deliver one final Bible study lesson before they left.
01:27:16
The FBI was reassured as such an action seemed to be consistent with Koresh's character.
01:27:23
It seemed like they were nearly there. At 5:59 p.m., the negotiators called into the compound again.
01:27:33
Steve Schneider answered the phone, and this time his words filled the negotiators with dread.
01:27:41
"The Lord spoke to David," Steve said. "The Lord told David to wait, not to come out."
01:27:55
To be continued next week. >> Mhm.