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[Music] Chris and Krueger who we were twins aids just three months old when they died in
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hospital both suffering from traumatic brain injury their death was a result of severe impact either from direct blows
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or being hit thrown or slammed against the hard surface violent shaking was another possible cause and couldn't be
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ruled out what was clear was that betweens injuries weren't accidental their death was the result of somebody
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using deliberate force against them it was determined the injuries were most likely inflicted at the same time by the
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same person the twins had been murdered so who was responsible [Music] Kristopher Kahoot ii and the crew Kukui
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were born at the National Women's Hospital Auckland New Zealand on the 28th of March 2006 the twins were later
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transferred to Middlemore Hospital their mother was Maxine a king 29 years old and their father was Chris Kukui 21
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years old they had one other child together already Shane Cucuy who was 13 months of
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age at the time Chris and Maxine his relationship was informal and brief but it had led to the birth of three
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children in just over a year Albert the twins birth was unplanned unexpected and
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unwanted both Chris and Maxine er were raised in abusive households filled with alcohol fueled violence Maxine is mother
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left after being badly beaten by Maxine his father one night she went to hospital and never returned to the house
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this left Maxine her and her siblings to be raised by a violent abusive father Maxine too ran away from the home to
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escape the abuse she was taken in by a foster family and eventually placed back into her mother's care but a mother had
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been in her for a second time dropping her off at a relative's house one day and never returning Maxine was both a
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victim of and a witness to physical violence as she was growing up from the people who were supposed to care for her
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and protect her crisco Hui was raised in a very similar household the adults in his life were
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alcoholics more worried about partying and drinking than providing adequate care for Chris Chris any siblings could
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go days without proper food but the adults really went without booze Chris also copped his fair share of beatings
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from his parents as he was growing up there was a rough tough abusive and violent upbringing for both of them
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the twins Chris and Cru Keely were born eight weeks prematurely despite their premature birth the twins
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condition was actually pretty good still they had to be kept in hospital for monitoring to make sure everything
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was okay before being discharged they were kept in hospital for around seven weeks until the 7th of May
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[Music] the nursing notes kept in the first 30 days after the twins birth showed that
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the parents Maxine our increase only visited the hospital 11 of those first 30 days and many of those visits were
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only brief when they did visit hospital staff would encourage them to engage with the twins doing things such as
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changing nappies and assisting with feeding but according to their notes Maxine Oh Chris didn't show a lot of
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interest hospital staff were concerned by this and they eventually reported these concerns on the 4th of May a
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social worker visited Maxine ER at the hospital Maxine a gave her reasons for their lack
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of visits as being they were moving house and we're trying to care for Shane so they had little time plus they didn't
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have a family car she said she knew the twins had the best possible care in the hospital so she wasn't overly concerned
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after this visit Maxine is staying with the twins for three nights under hospital staff supervision she
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demonstrated a good ability to deal with nappy changes and feeding staff were actually pretty impressed by what they
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saw and they allowed the twins to be discharged from hospital on the 7th of May the twins were taken home 222
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Cortney Crescent Munger a east also living near with Maxine our increase was their other son Shane as well as Stuart
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King who is Maxine his brother and his partner Mona Kukui who is Chris's sister they were in a relationship together as
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well and had a baby daughter who also lived with them so the four adults and four children all lived together in a
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three-bedroom house at least seven follow-up visits were conducted by healthcare staff upon the
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twins discharged from hospital their reports from those visits were all positive
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the twins were flourishing and it was obvious they were being well cared for they were well fed putting on natural
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healthy weight and we're all around looking very well Mac Sina was seen to interact well with the twins constantly
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picking them up cuddling and kissing them etc both parents were open during the visits and were not evasive at all
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the initial concerns about their lack of interest at the hospital were erased there was no reason for concern or for
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suspicion on the 18th of May 2006 Chris Kapoor his mother was admitted to hospital she was
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placed in intensive care suffering pneumonia Chris Kabul he was very concerned about his mother's health and
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spent considerable time with her in the hospital often staying overnight about 1
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p.m. on Saturday the 11th of June 2006 Maxine ER increased her disagreement resulting in Mack Cena saying she needed
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Tanya she took their son Shane with her and left the house leaving Chris to care for
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the twins Chris wasn't happy and told Maxie no to stay at home but she left and went to her sister's house where she
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spent the afternoon after leaving her sister's house she went to Chris's father's house William Kukui it was also
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known as Ben J she actually fell asleep there Chris was angry that Maxine hadn't
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returned Pam but later that night Chris went looking for her in feeandpete his father's else
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he told her to get up and get her ass home he said he was stressed and tired and struggling to make the twins bottles
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and feed them on his own he said he needed Maxine his help max Sina refused to return home she told him to get his
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ass home so he could look after the twins who at this time were being cared for by an owner and Stewart Maxine
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refused to return home and Chris had little choice but to leave with the other Maxine I ended up taking Shane to
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hospital that night and she was concerned to be out an illness he had he was checked out by a doctor and there
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was no major concerns they were able to leave a few hours later Maxine I didn't return home 2:22
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Courtney present until about 10:30 a.m. on Sunday the 12th of June but she wasn't home for long about midday Maxine
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who said she was leaving again and going to spend the night with her sister Chris
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didn't want her to go accusing her that she was going near to partying to get drunk are now given followed and Maxine
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at our cruise to go get [ __ ] before walking out this time she didn't take Shane so Chris was looking after all
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three kids the evidence suggests that the twins were healthy and normal when Maxine I left the house shortly
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after Maxine I left Chris's father being Jacob Hui and Chris's cousin April Saunders and her husband Shane Saunders
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visited April Saunders said that when she arrived both twins were in their cots she could hear one of them was
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awake she went in to check on them and saw that crew was the one awake crew was making a hungry cry and there was a
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half-finished bottle next to his car Chris mentioned that he had been feeding crew and he most likely wanted to finish
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the bottle April picked crew up and fed him she said everything was normal he took the bottle normally he looked
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well he'll tell fee there were no injuries on him at all he finished the bottle and went straight back to sleep
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baby Chris remained asleep having already been fed [Music] April and Shane Saunders left about 2
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p.m. and when they left there were no problems at all about 7:00 p.m. that knife Chris dropped
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his system Mona and her baby daughter off at the hospital to visit their mum he says he was gone for about 20 minutes
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Stuart King was at home minding the kids and he says Chris was gone for about ten
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or fifteen minutes about 8:25 p.m. Maeda returned home with her daughter and father beocca Hui Mona's intentions were
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to drop off her baby daughter then returned to the hospital to spend the night with the mum
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almost immediately there was an argument between B and J and Chris B and Joe had
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to go at him about nak Sina and asked why she wasn't there Chris told him to shut up that wasn't his relationship
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Mona got involved as well it turned into a bit of a heated argument that got Chris worked up about
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8:40 p.m. they all went outside for a smoke Chris was angry that he couldn't go with
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Nona back to the hospital to see their mum because he had to stay at home and look after the kids
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it was also still agitated on the argument here just that after the smoke Chris walked back inside he went into
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the twins bedroom he was alone in their room for a period of time just how long this period of time is depends on who
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was telling the story Nana says it was ten minutes that Chris was alone in the room
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Chris agreed with that at one point but later changed his story and said it was more like three minutes but regardless
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the evidence is clear he was in the room by himself for at least three minutes possibly longer the next part of the
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story is also unclear and we will probably never know exactly what happened again it depends on whose story
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you listen to but even then Chris has changed the story of multiple times already
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but what is clear is that at some point main and walked into the room with Chris
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and the twins she says she picked up crew to give him a cuddle before she left to go back to the
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hospital she said Chris face was pale his lips were purple and his eyes were rolling back in his head Chris didn't
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appear too worried he said he gets like that when he's tired but man I realized crew wasn't breathing she ran to get her
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partner Stuart Stuart ran into the room and took hold of crew he says the crews lips were dark purple
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and they were getting darker and darker he also says his body was flimsy and limp he said crew wasn't breathing for
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what seemed like five to ten minutes he was just lifeless then suddenly crew started to breathe in short bursts like
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he was trying to suck in the air he was making a queasy sound every time he opened his eyes they would roll back and
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his hands were shaking Stuart felt crew was dead at one stage it was a very serious incident again
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depending on who is telling the story and what version of the story they are telling crew may have been given CPR by
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Chris or Chris may have gone to attempt CPR a crew started breathing before he had to perform it either way crews
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started to breed again and in Chris's words he had come good still given the serious nature of what had occurred
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you would think seeking medical attention would be the next step but it wasn't they didn't take crew to a
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hospital and they didn't call an ambulance AJ Mona and Stuart were all of the opinion crew should be checked out but
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Chris didn't want medical help he said nah he's breathing again he should be fine now he refused to take them to
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hospital and refused the nebulas instead instructed banjar Mona to go out and look for Maxie no he just wanted her
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home be in jail Mona did what Chris asked they left the house to try and find Maxie no but they couldn't find it
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banjo dropped Manor at the hospital so she could be with her mum and then he returned to 20 to Kourtney present he
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looked after Shane while Chris slept the night in the twins room to make sure they kept breathing so by doing that
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Chris did show he had concerns the next morning Tuesday the 13th of June 2006 Chris woke up and checked on the twins
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he noticed the bruise on baby Chris's face he left home about 9:00 a.m. the twins and Shane stayed at home with
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Stuart Maxie no arrived home about 9:30 5:00 a.m. Chris was still out she spoke to Stuart
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who told her about the incident the night before with crew but she says he didn't express exactly how serious it
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was max inna went to the twins room to check on them both were asleep and both were
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breathing Chris arrived home shortly after she confronted him and said what the [ __ ] was happening while I was gone
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away how the hell did our boy you get that new bruise on his face what the hell happened
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Chris's response to her was that he left the daughter the twins room open and Shane had crawled in the room and
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somehow got to the twins causing the bruise maxine started yelling at Chris and his response was that Maxie no
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should have been at home taking care of the kids now remember max eNOS said to Chris how the hell did our boy get that
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new bruise on his face that's because there had recently been another bruise on his face and when she confronted
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Chris about that first bruise a few days earlier he gave the exact same story here just given for the fresh bruise
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that he left the door open and Shane crawled in and caused it Maxine says that she saw two full
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bottles ready to go but Chris told her the twins weren't hungry and didn't want their feed
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she thought the twins were just asleep but looking back she realizes they'll know Spike Lee unconscious max ena says
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she didn't immediately realize how serious their condition was or how badly they had been hurt the incident with
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crew the night before wasn't properly explained to her she was of the opinion that crew momentarily stopped breathing
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then started breathing straight away she says those name mentioned to her of him
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turning purple or CPR or not breathing for several minutes and definitely no mention from anyone that they thought
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crew was dead at one point Maxine is suggested taking the twins to their GP dr. Nayar to get checked there Chris
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agreed and they got in the car to head to dr. Naas but first they stopped at McDonald's for lunch again keep in mind
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Maxine says she didn't realize how serious the situation was at this point and Chris wasn't exactly forthcoming
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with information to her they arrived at the doctor's about 1:00 p.m. Chris described the incident the night
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before where crew stopped breathing but he failed to mention that neither twin had been fed always waiting for food
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since that time straight away doctor now could see the twins were neurologically unlevel he
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actually asked Chris and Maxine if the babies had been dropped on their heads he immediately telephoned in a referral
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to Middlemore hospital he told Chris Cermak Sina that the Twins had to be taken to the hospital straightaway dr.
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Nayar says that Chris and Maxine has seemed to understand his instruction and the serious nature of the twins
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condition they were very sick and needed to be seen at the hospital immediately so Chrissy Maxine had jumped in their
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car with the twins but Chris decided he didn't want to go to hospital he drove straight past the turnoff for some
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reason Maxine are asked him to stop at the shops so she could buy nappies and other baby supplies he stopped and she
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got what she needed they returned home sometime before 2:00 p.m. when they got home Chris was amped up agitated and
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angry Maxine who was swearing and yelling at him saying that he needed to go to hospital with her but Chris didn't want
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to go to hospital he decided it was all too much and he left the house to go for
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a walk here is Maxine is account of what happened like a suit with the arms drive
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back from the doctors he did water in the hospital I stopped a countdown we got bits of Courtney Chris and I said
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wait here we'll come with the twins wait back inside the house it can't be kept he was gone Hall's first off
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started running around getting things and I rang her sister Tracy then I said to you Tracy I need I need your help she
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goes what's the matter on our way I need you to increasing Guinness a speck in she goes what do you want me to make up
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do we're not gonna do it are we I just lost a liver and all you can you know you're always bossing around you
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can get on the phone it's on to get us a specky and help me to get the boys to the hospital I start crying on the phone
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and she goes one always I don't know you Tracy which assists the doctors he said
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gets at the hospital and she goes why don't you get the hospital 108 cuz I wanted to walk cause Percel didn't want
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to and because I wanted to crimp the other stuff chicas well you should have just
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not bothered just two kids what you should have just yeah pretty hard to make this the driver am I
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gonna do turn the wheel for me he drove she's like ah please then if you can't even
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help me this is how you can help me now ring your brother it make sure you get a
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thumb huh good go fool with us on my you help me no you help me these are all cuts in
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your pile of itseif do something so hung up on her and she doesn't she did Tran get a hold of Chris but heard that she
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actually drove over a week to go and find him she arrived at the house cook to shortly see da now Chris just pissed
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off mate see this year together the doctor the hospital deserving Christmas or the doctors but then crystal coffee
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miss the baby such talks back it's trophy and trophy for Chris max inna did take the twins up at the
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hospital with the out Chris arriving there about 2:30 7 p.m. when triaged the bruising baby Chris's face was noticed
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and Max inna could only give the story that she'd been told that their other son Shane had caused them
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the twins were given category 3 status the most serious is category 1 so despite having a phone referral from a
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doctor saying the twins were suffering neurological damage the hospital still only gave category 3 status which is
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usually around a 30-minute wait the twins were eventually seen by another nurse who noted fresh bruising on both
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twins faces it was also discovered the baby Chris had a broken leg and both twins had fractured ribs and they'll
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both suffering traumatic brain injuries Chris and Cru eventually started fitting
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and compulsive about 3:40 p.m. max Sina called her brother Stuart's phone by now Chris had
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returned home from his walk and he and Stuart were playing a game on the Sony Playstation Maxine are asked to speak to
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Chris Chris took the phone and said whatever and hung up in relation to this call Stuart said well it was his turn on
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the game so he played again Chris was more interested in the Sony Playstation than what was happening up at the
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hospital with his twins Maxine about numerous more telephone calls to Stuart her sister and the Chris's sister to try
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and get someone to get through his head how serious the situation was and to get
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him up to the hospital but Chris was going nowhere near the hospital by now hospital staff and started making
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accusations at max senior it was apparently injuries to the twins had been done by somebody they accused her
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of child abuse Maxine started freaking out she freely admits her behavior at the hospital
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wasn't ideal but she said she was panicked and didn't know what to do she had no idea what was going on Chris had
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said Shane got into the room and caused a bruise on the twins face now she was being told about fractured ribs a broken
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leg brain damage and being accused of child abuse meanwhile Chris was still playing the PlayStation
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the twins were transferred the starship hospital by ambulance shortly after 6:00
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p.m. Chris finally made an appearance of a hospital about 10:00 p.m. it was at this
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time maxi nurse says she first heard about crew not breathing four minutes his lips turning blue and CPR being Joe
00:22:48
said he performed CPR chris said he performed CPR Stuart said he didn't see anyone perform CPR banjo later admitted
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lying to protect Chris in case something went wrong and that he didn't perform CPR at all their stories were a mess the
00:23:09
injuries to the twins were so bad that nothing could be done to save them little crew died at 4:55 a.m. on the
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18th of June and little Chris died at 6:45 p.m. later that same day Chris was shown to have older injuries as well
00:23:30
fractured ribs that were in the process of healing as well as these older fractures he had fresh fractures of the
00:23:37
ribs he also had a broken leg his cause of death was traumatic brain injury crew
00:23:47
also had older rib fractures that are in the process of healing his cause of death
00:23:52
traumatic brain injury [Music] experts were of the view that the twins brain injuries had been caused by severe
00:24:01
impact rapid acceleration and the acceleration of the head either from direct blows or being hit or thrown or
00:24:09
slammed against a hard surface it's also possible violent shaking was the cause of death
00:24:16
that couldn't be ruled out the prosecution experts were of the view that the injuries must have occurred
00:24:25
after their last normal feeding there is no way the twins would have been able to
00:24:29
feed normally up the receiving these injuries so that's where the evidence of April Saunders is important she fed
00:24:37
crews shortly up the lunchtime on the afternoon of the 12 of June crew took his bottle normally and went back to
00:24:43
sleep showing the injuries could not have been there at that time they had to have
00:24:49
occurred after April Saunders and her husband left 22 Courtney Crescent which was about 2 p.m. that afternoon the
00:24:58
effects of the twins injuries would have been immediate and obvious with either an alteration to their level of
00:25:03
consciousness or a complete loss of consciousness and they would have continued to remain abnormal from that
00:25:10
point on their injuries were devastating and extensive a police investigation was
00:25:19
already underway before the twins had died they interviewed everyone who had anything to do with the twins many
00:25:26
people were interviewed more than once giving multiple statements crisco Hui was one of those who is interviewed by
00:25:35
police on three separate occasions it was important to learn exactly when the twins last fed normally to try and
00:25:41
narrow down the time near injuries occur crews kapooya was interviewed on the 13th of June before the twins had passed
00:25:49
away again on the 21st of June three days after their death and then again on the 3rd of October
00:25:56
in these three police interviews Chris gave similar versions saying pretty much the same thing he says he definitely fed
00:26:04
the twins after April fed crew and therefore after Maxine had already left the house in his first thing of you he
00:26:13
said he fed the twins again around five or six o'clock that night and then again
00:26:18
around 11 o'clock he even said that they fed again the next morning around 6:00 a.m. he gave a similar account in his
00:26:27
next two interviews so in the three interviews one conducted before and two conducted soon after the twins death
00:26:34
Chris said he had last fed the twins the police investigation was exhaustive and
00:26:42
lasted for months they concluded only one person could have been responsible for the twins
00:26:49
death their father Chris Kerr who he was charged with their murder in late October Chris was released on
00:26:59
bail whilst awaiting trial he was given strict conditions not to consume alcohol
00:27:04
and not to marry on children under 12 years of age as it turns out those conditions were too strict
00:27:11
it was arrested for breaching their conditions and was to be kept in jail until his trial that is until the father
00:27:21
of the car Hui twins is one of the first people to take advantage of amendments to the bailout which came into force
00:27:26
yesterday kaho II was sent to jail six weeks ago for breaching his bail conditions by drinking beer and being in
00:27:33
the presence of children under 12 but the new laws mean that those sorts of breaches will no longer mean a person is
00:27:39
automatically taken into custody Claire Robbie reports family members arrived at court to show their support
00:27:46
for Chris Carr Hui the 22 year old spent the last 42 days in solitary confinement
00:27:53
she'd been incarcerated 23 hours a day and it's a long time for anybody but new bail laws introduced yesterday mean he
00:28:02
won't be there for much longer under the bail Amendment Act it now has to be not
00:28:06
just a risk but a real and substantial risk of the offender absconding interfering with witnesses or
00:28:13
reoffending it's aimed at getting prison numbers down car whose risk was deemed moderate you've got a look at the fact
00:28:22
that he has no previous offending and certainly nothing of a violent nature but bail came with tough conditions
00:28:29
again he's not to drink alcohol or be in the presence of children under 12 without an adult got another chance you
00:28:37
just wait up and just stay out of trouble till next year next year he'll be back in court to face charges of
00:28:45
killing his twin three month old sons Chris and Cru so he breached the conditions of staying
00:28:53
away from children under 12 and drinking alcohol but he was released with the same bail conditions as well as a number
00:29:00
of other conditions he was free until his trial during the police investigation and even after Chris had
00:29:10
been charged a trial by media had already started singling out mainly one person the twins mother Maxine you know
00:29:19
she wore the brunt of the media and he turned the public's fury in outrage she was turned into a monster quickly
00:29:26
becoming New Zealand's most hated woman you know she wasn't an innocent angel by
00:29:32
any stretch but the fact she was the one targeted was interesting after all she wasn't the one that had been charged
00:29:43
chris's trial commenced on the 14th of april 2008 and ran for about six weeks chris's defense team had one main
00:29:52
strategy in mind well the lawyer for the man accused of murdering his twin sons is blaming the fatal injuries on the
00:29:59
baby's mother 23-year old Chris kahoot is on trial at the High Court in Auckland over the deaths of the three
00:30:06
month-old twins who died from severe brain damage in June of 2006 yesterday both the crown and defense opened their
00:30:14
cases joy Reid was there and she joins us now firstly what are the defense saying in this case joy well they only
00:30:24
had a chance to make a very brief opening statement and in there mr. Curry's lawyer Lorraine Smith told the
00:30:30
court that her client didn't kill the twins now she says there's no direct evidence or any one witness proving that
00:30:37
Chris Kahui is the killer and she's blaming the deaths on mr. Carr who is ex-girlfriend who is Maxine a king who
00:30:43
has been described in court as outspoken and verbally abusive the defense cases and let me put it
00:30:49
bluntly that most probably the mother makes seen a king inflicted the injuries and you will hear that make seen a king
00:30:57
told the witness months after Chris Carr Hui was charged that she did it and Chris didn't
00:31:04
now Lorraine Smith is planning to call that witness to the stand but also some internationally respected medical
00:31:11
experts one a pathologist and another a pediatrician who she says will tell the court that it's impossible to tell with
00:31:17
any accuracy when the twins were injured and that would indicate that the injuries could have been inflicted when
00:31:23
Maxine air King was in fact at home which Miss Smith says effectively contradicts the main medical evidence of
00:31:28
the crown so is the crown case as outlined yesterday pretty reliant on the issue of timing and terms are of
00:31:36
establishing crisco is guilt yes very very much so and it's opening yesterday crown lawyer Simon Morse made it very
00:31:43
very clear that chriscaro II is the only person who can be at fault for his baby
00:31:49
son's death and that is Jewish due to timing now they say that the twins mother Maxine a king was not at home
00:31:54
when the babies could have been fatally hurt and that Chris Carr who was the only one who had the chance to harm them
00:32:00
because he was alone with the twins for about three to ten minutes and immediately after that Chris's sister
00:32:06
Mona Carr who II noticed that baby crew had in fact stopped breathing and she stooped to pick this baby up she noticed
00:32:14
that his lips had gone purple his eyes rolling back and he seemed to have stopped breathing this is the first time
00:32:23
that there is any evidence that the twins either of the twins have been injured and immediately prior to it used
00:32:31
is in the room with them now the family never called an ambulance and after the babies fell asleep they never woke up
00:32:40
now in one of chriscaro his interviews with police he tried to say that his one-year-old son had in fact injured the
00:32:46
babies but the crown also refutes that argument there's no way that the injuries to either twin let alone both
00:32:55
could have been caused by accident it's simply impossible so whoever did it did it deliberately now the court heard that
00:33:03
the baby suffered from massive brain injuries that they've been grasped so tightly around their chest at their ribs
00:33:09
had popped and that they've been slammed against a hard surface the tiny bodies also bore evidence of other abuse but
00:33:16
the jury was told that no medical treatment could have saved the babies from dying that clip and all future
00:33:24
clips that will be played on this episode courtesy of New Zealand radio links will be provided in the show notes
00:33:30
so you can check out all their clips and articles that cover the case now the part you just heard about Maxine are
00:33:37
allegedly confessing to a defense witness will be covered shortly to call that alleged confession unreliable is
00:33:43
probably being too kind max Cena was one of the first prosecution witnesses to give evidence
00:33:51
[Music] the mother of the card Kahului twins has told the courthouse she argued with her
00:33:59
partner after coming home to find her baby's critically injured Maxine a king was giving evidence at the trial of the
00:34:05
baby's father Chris Kerr who he was charged with their murder the crown alleges that mr. Cara Hui fatally
00:34:11
injured the twins when he was alone with them and the baby's nursery back in June
00:34:15
2006 Jory's has been at the High Court in Auckland she's with us now joy what else did miss King have to say well she
00:34:23
described the last time that she saw the babies before they were injured she said
00:34:27
that when she left and they were good they were away it looks normal their eyes are following sound and they
00:34:32
were in good condition but she'd never saw them that way again now she leaves the house for the night the crown says
00:34:37
the facial injuries were inflicted and when she came back the next morning she was told that her son crew had stopped
00:34:43
breathing during the night and she rushed into the nursery yelling at Kristen said this to the court ask them
00:34:49
what does that mean while I was gone in a way how the hell did help baby boy get
00:34:55
the new bruise on his face and what the hell happened and what did he say about the bruise Chris told me that it was her
00:35:04
son Shane they did their I asked him how their how how did he do that and then and then he told me he lived the
00:35:15
daughter thenews free then they trained he crawled and Corden got into the room climbed up on the couch
00:35:25
in head I think she said that Chris Carr who he blamed her for the babies stopping breathing and said that she
00:35:36
should have been there taking care of the kids that otherwise wouldn't have happened now as you've heard the
00:35:41
prosecution's position was that the twins didn't have their injuries when Maxine I left the house that they they
00:35:47
couldn't have because April fed crew after Maxine had left and there is no way crew would be able to feed with the
00:35:54
injuries he later sustained Chris himself said that he had fed them after April had left as well so the defense
00:36:02
tried to exploit the brief window of time when Chris was dropping Mona at the hospital around 7:00 p.m. that night
00:36:08
remember he said he was gone for 20 minutes Stuart King said it was more like 10 to 15 minutes police actually
00:36:18
later did a test drive at the journey and including a stop for petrol they were there and back in 17 minutes so
00:36:28
it's in this window of time the defense argued that max ena could have returned home and inflicted the injuries on the
00:36:33
twins back senior and the prosecution of course rejected these claims Maxine is saying she wasn't even in mongery at all
00:36:42
that night but a point of contention which should never have been a point of contention was cell phone records
00:36:51
obtained from Maxine s sister Emily who Maxine has said she was with the entire night a seed of doubt was planted by
00:36:59
Emily cell phone records Maxine is said she didn't return to Courtney Crescent that night in fact she
00:37:06
said she didn't return the memory at all that night but Emily's cell phone records show she received a call at 7:54
00:37:14
p.m. and the call went through the mummery cell phone tower so at first glance the cellphone records
00:37:23
indicate Maxine might have been in Hungary that night after all and she might have been lying what actually
00:37:31
happened was that Maxine and Emily were driving along the southwestern motorway past mongery and that's when Emily got
00:37:38
the call that's why the call pinged off the memory cell phone tower and there was evidence to back this up what the
00:37:48
court heard was that had the call been received by Emily while her and Maxine aware at 22 Courtney Crescent in memory
00:37:55
which is what the defense were saying then the call wouldn't have even pinged off the Munger retail it would have
00:38:01
pinged off another tower altogether it's a little confusing I can see how at first glance people would think no she's
00:38:10
lying the cellphone records show that she was in Murray but actually they were they were driving past on the motorway
00:38:18
and the cellphone records back up their story I can see how people get slipped up like that it's logical to assume that
00:38:29
if they were at 22 Courtney Crescent nunnery then a cellphone call would ping off the Maneri tail but it's just one of
00:38:36
those things it doesn't not to mention this particular call was received at 7:54 p.m. Chris left for the hospital at
00:38:48
7 p.m. and he said he was gone for 20 minutes so by his own evidence he was already back at home by 7:54 p.m. and at
00:38:57
6:58 p.m. which is around the time Chris left cell phone records place Emily in Maxine in at 10:25 kilometres away which
00:39:06
is around 15 miles so there's no way they could have got there in time while Chris was out so this theory using the
00:39:13
cellphone records to support it is a stretch Chris's defense team went after Maxine a
00:39:23
hard and as I've said she certainly wasn't an angel she did have a criminal history for fraud and stealing and she
00:39:30
had three children to two previous partners that were no longer in her care Shane had since been removed from her
00:39:36
and Chris's care as well given what happened to the twins the previous injuries found on the twins were
00:39:43
obviously used against her people are asking how could a loving mother not notice these previous injuries Maxine it
00:39:52
was painted as promiscuous a violent bully and as someone who didn't care about their children there were even
00:40:01
question marks raised if Chris was the father of the twins again making out she was out sleeping around but a paternity
00:40:08
test ended that debate Chris was definitely the father they then came out that after the twins funeral Maxine who
00:40:16
got blind drunk made a fool of herself and it was alleged she started hitting on a female guest at the funeral and
00:40:22
ended up kissing Chris's teenage brother the hospital staff testified to painting
00:40:29
a bad picture of her behavior at the hospital when she was there with the twins which she freely admits probably
00:40:34
didn't look great the media lapped it up max ena was the main target she was been crucified Chris seemed to
00:40:43
escape much of the media crucifixion they painted a picture of Maxine as always being out partying never around
00:40:52
for her children and being a drug user she did a bit to drawing drugs but says it definitely wasn't a regular thing
00:41:00
Chris himself said he didn't know Maxine a debate a drug user and Chris's own sister Mona testified that Maxine I
00:41:08
never really went out much at all then headline started surfacing saying max inna had secretly admitted to an
00:41:17
ex-boyfriend that she killed the twins and Chris had nothing to do with it this is the confession to the defense witness
00:41:24
that you heard mentioned earlier apparently he had even take recorded the omission only problem when it came time
00:41:33
to reduce the tape recording and didn't exist and her ex-boyfriend actually later testified he couldn't remember
00:41:39
exactly what Maxine had said and he could have been mistaken he also admitted that he wasn't very good at
00:41:46
telling the truth so he had zero credibility but it was just another piece used against Maxine up in the
00:41:56
defense's mission to make hurry up to be the cure people read the headline and the article and think it must be true
00:42:02
never mind that when you look into it it becomes apparent it was about as far from the truth as you could get the
00:42:11
mother of the dead cow Joey twins will face a further grilling in the witness stand today as to the defense tries to
00:42:17
paint her as the baby's killer Maxine the Kings giving evidence at the trial of the twins father Chris koe who's
00:42:25
accused of murdering the three month old babies in June of 2006 Maxine a king will spend a third day in
00:42:32
the witness box today reporter Jordan Reed is covering the trial the defense was unrelenting in its questioning of
00:42:39
Maxine a king accusing her of being the twins killer put it to you that you returned home and you lost it it's not I
00:42:50
have never ever absolutely not harmed my son's defense lawyer Lorraine Smith said
00:42:58
Maxine a King had told her sisters that a woman with evil spirits had hurt the babies hinting at herself but Miss King
00:43:05
says that was absolutely untrue she also denies the allegations that she had two opportunities to injure the
00:43:12
babies either on the morning before they were admitted to hospital or while Chris
00:43:16
was out the day she says she wasn't at home she also denies confessing to another boyfriend that she was the
00:43:22
killer you said to him oh I don't know why I done what I did didn't you completely not true
00:43:29
you said you'd done what ma'am what are you on about didn't he know you said oh never mind and you also said Chris
00:43:39
didn't do it don't you that's absolutely not true Maxine a king also denied trying to cover up
00:43:46
historical bruises with makeup in TV handling her other son who was just three months old at the time she also
00:43:52
rejected claims that she tried to make the twins look cared for by washing the unconscious babies before taking them to
00:43:59
hospital and that she threatened her brother with a bullet if he told police what happened the defense also tried to
00:44:05
paint miss king as a careless mother it had six children altogether heaven sure yes to a deceased fame has been taken
00:44:14
away from you by soaps isn't he Shane's been removed from these the older trio from two previous relationships aren't
00:44:22
they just their and you abandoned those three older children with their fathers didn't you I
00:44:28
lift them and be possible kid it was best for them it's a time especially when she admitted to using the drug P
00:44:35
the week before taking the babies to hospital you looked after the twins while you were still under the influence
00:44:43
of methamphetamine didn't you yep Maxine a king no longer has any contact with any of her four remaining children she
00:44:53
told the court Chris caja was a loving father who was always worried about handling the twins because they were so
00:44:59
tiny her cross-examination continues today in Auckland from Morning Report Choi read many others were called to the
00:45:09
stand to testify here is Stuart King testifying about the incident where Cruz stopped breathing well of food like a
00:45:18
dark people they kept on giddy with dark and dark in Dhaka and this was body was
00:45:25
so so flimsy and so limp wasn't the teller wasn't normal how long wasn't he breathing for we didn't for about 5-10
00:45:37
minutes I know he was as Bynum and lifeless and all importantly the jury got to hear
00:45:47
from Chris Cucuy he didn't testify at his trial he had every right to remain silent and not testify but his police
00:45:56
interviews were played to the court the jury and the child of double murder accused Chris Carr who yesterday been
00:46:04
watching police videos in which he describes how bruises started to sprout on his babies three month old twins
00:46:11
Chris and Cru Carr who he died of severe head injuries in June 2006 our reporter
00:46:17
joy Reed has been in the High Court in Auckland watching the videos today she's with us now joy what does Chris Carr who
00:46:23
say in this well there are about six hours of footage and total and so far the jury's only watched about three
00:46:29
hours of them but in the accused first interview with police which was only hours after the twins were admitted to
00:46:35
hospitals he's got his one-year-old son sitting there on his nets and they're interviewed that Chris Carr who he told
00:46:40
the police officer and that baby crew had stopped breathing during the night and let his lips wind blow now Chris
00:47:04
Kahui said that was pretty freaky in his own words but that baby crew as I said did come right and it wasn't until about
00:47:10
ten the next to [ __ ] the next morning that Chris Carr how he noticed any bruises on the boys time you saw the
00:47:24
bruising come up on Chris what did you think so by lunch somewhere war presents and
00:47:42
later on as I say more bruises sprouted up on both those boys faces and how did he explain the entrance well in a word
00:47:50
he couldn't and he said at one stage though that his son Shane who was this 1 year old toddler might have gone in
00:47:56
there and quote waxed the twins but when asked if he actually saw Shane hit the 20 said that he haven't had just seen
00:48:03
him going to the twins room but that Shane had hit the boys before by accident and when a police officer a
00:48:09
detective Julian Graham put to him that the injuries were so severe that there's
00:48:13
no way Shane could have caused him he didn't have anything to say to that and then she said quote someone's gone in
00:48:20
and beaten your boys who was that and kraskow how he said he didn't know an addictive in Graham asked him if he had
00:48:26
got angry and had taken it out on the boys to which he replied I've never had a kid before I've never had my boys and
00:48:33
I've never never hit any child what does he say VIN about the twins and how they
00:48:38
usually behaved well he said they spent most of the time in the cotton list they
00:48:42
were feeding and that was every six hours or so but he did say that baby Chris was often unsettled that he was
00:48:48
the one that normally cried a lot more on it he described the crying as grizzling now we know now that baby
00:48:54
Chris was actually nursing a broken leg during that time and that broken leg was
00:48:59
up to two weeks old before he was hospitalized with the fatal head injuries and what was Chris cow whose
00:49:05
demeanor like in these videos he's very quietly spoken and on the whole seemed relatively calm at one stage though the
00:49:13
police officer told him that his babies may not survive and asked him if he was concerned about this and he said that
00:49:19
yes yes he's very scared and he spent much with the first interview cuddling his one-year-old son Shane and the rest
00:49:26
of the video footage which is without his younger son will be played tomorrow Thank You joy that's a reporter an all
00:49:32
conjoin read video evidence says continued today in the car Hui case with footage showing
00:49:42
Chris car Hui denying he had fatally injured his twins in a fit of rage it's likely to be the only time the jury
00:49:49
will hear directly from the accused whose charge was murdering his twin boys Chris and Cru in June 2006 the video
00:49:56
interview yesterday also revealed the accused admitted he wanted to hand himself in to police because he felt he
00:50:01
had nothing left to live for reporter joy reed has been in court watching that footage today she's with
00:50:06
us now joy how else does he explain the twins injuries in this final video interview well he doesn't really he
00:50:13
repeatedly says that he doesn't know vet or how has two boys were hurt and the detective interviewing him pushed him
00:50:21
quite hard on this and during the interview he admitted that he was under a lot of pressure from the twins mother
00:50:26
Maxine a king at the time that she was upset with him for spending so much time at the hospital with her sick mother
00:50:32
instead of with her at home he admitted that he bottled things up that he was angry that make Cena King had gone out
00:50:38
for the night and then Detective Sergeant Chris berry suggested to him that all these factors combined caused
00:50:43
him to snap pressure with three kids mums in hospital Banjos having a go at you there's no one else to take it on
00:50:52
your frustration comes out the moment you lose control [Music] now he repeatedly denied similar
00:51:09
accusations saying caught on the video including those that he didn't call an ambulance when baby crew stopped
00:51:15
breathing that night and he didn't go to the hospital when they were first admitted to intensive care and the
00:51:21
policeman put it to him this was because he had caused the fatal injuries to which he said it wasn't true how then
00:51:28
does he try to justify his statements about wanting to hand himself in well the court heard that he told his dad and
00:51:33
Maxine our King's brother Stuart and that he felt responsible for the twins deaths because he'd failed to protect
00:51:39
his sons and that now that they did he's got nothing left to live for and does he
00:51:57
say anything about Maxine our King and her alleged involvement in the twins injuries well the defense claims that
00:52:03
the baby's mother Maxine a king is the most likely a one to have killed the infants and in this final interview with
00:52:10
the police Chris Carr always suggests that yes she could be the one to have lost control and that she was the one to
00:52:16
injure the twins before they went out for them for she went out for the night with her sister but he couldn't go into
00:52:21
more details to back that up and couldn't go into into any more details about why she could be to blame and the
00:52:27
jury had some medical pictures of the twins other injuries yesterday the court was able to see for the very first time
00:52:33
the extent of the twins other injuries today and it was shown an x-ray of baby Chris who had a broken leg and in the
00:52:40
sex ray you could physically see that this bone had been snapped in half and the the medical expert said that the
00:52:46
injury was less than a seven to ten days old now baby Chris also had a possible wrist
00:52:52
wrist fracture and a head fracture and baby crew also had a head fracture Thank You joy that's our reporter in
00:52:58
Auckland joy Reed and the defense had their turn calling witnesses they called in their own
00:53:06
expert to refute what the prosecution experts had to say and to drive home there are the theory which was that if
00:53:13
max ena hadn't returned home in that brief window of time Chris was out on the 12th of June then she must have
00:53:19
injured the twins either before she left or the morning that she got home the key
00:53:26
medical witness for the defense in the car Hui case has today disputed when the crown says the baby twins were fatally
00:53:33
injured dr. Terrence Donald gave evidence today as their last defense witness in the trial of Chris Carr Hui
00:53:38
who's accused of murdering his twin baby boys nearly two years ago the case is now winding up with the jury expected to
00:53:45
go out later this week to consider its verdict a reporter Joey Reed has been at the High Court in Auckland today she's
00:53:51
with us now enjoy firstly what did dr. Donald say about the timing of the twins injuries all the Crown's case is that
00:53:57
the infant's injuries can be narrowed down to just before baby crew stopped breathing which was immediately after
00:54:04
the accused spent time alone in their nursery but doc Donald today he's a child abuse expert from Australia says
00:54:10
that it's too hard really to pinpoint when exactly these twins were injured now he says it is possible that they
00:54:16
were hurt when the crown says they were but that it's more likely that the babies could have been injured in an
00:54:22
earlier itself and that this breathing episode was more likely to be a seizure and a secondary reaction to the injuries
00:54:28
would also fit just as well with a baby who was developing secondary effects from something that had occurred some
00:54:37
time previously you couldn't argue one over the other Donald says that a person who was not their main carer including
00:54:47
the father of the father wasn't the main caregiver may not have been aware of anything wrong with them when they had
00:54:52
this serious injuries so when does he think the babies were injured well dr. Donald's made it pretty clear to the
00:54:58
court today that it's hard to say and says that if the breeding breathing episode was a secondary reaction then it
00:55:04
could have occurred up to six hours after the primary assault which is the primary injury now said that the only
00:55:10
way really to accurately time when the babies were injured is to find out from a
00:55:15
independent person when the twins were last interacting normally as this would mean that the injuries would have
00:55:21
happened after this but it says in this case is effectively no independent person and the only real description
00:55:27
that you get about about how the twins reacted earlier earlier before the crown says these injuries occurred as from the
00:55:35
twins mother and he said that a carer is not usually classified as an independent
00:55:40
you think it's possible to say a win on Monday the trials of June 2006 the babies were injured that depends on how
00:55:48
reliable their mother's account is if their mother's reliables account had happened after that if their mother's
00:55:53
reliable account isn't reliable then it could have happened before that what else did he say about the twins injuries
00:56:00
well he said today that their injuries were very serious and almost identical and he also said that he believed that
00:56:07
they would have been able to do basic feeding but not vigorously suck but that does differs from the crown medical
00:56:14
experts who say that the babies would not have been able to feed much at all after sustaining such serious head
00:56:19
injuries now he also said that he was very surprised that no one realized how seriously ill these babies were until
00:56:26
they were taken to the doctor and he said these babies would have been in and out of consciousness for many hours they
00:56:31
would have been unable to wake and making abnormal noises and what criticism did he have about the autopsy
00:56:37
well he says that a number of steps were missed out and the sought autopsy and such as examining the baby's eyes and
00:56:43
that made it more difficult to try and determine how these twins were hurt now he's written a protocol for autopsies in
00:56:50
Australia and said that this post-mortem would not have met those standards and we are nearing the end of this yes we
00:56:57
are dr. Donald was the last defense witness to be called so from tomorrow the crown will make its closing
00:57:03
submissions and that's expected to take most of the day then the defense closing
00:57:08
submissions will be on Wednesday and the judge will probably sum up and send the
00:57:12
jury out on Thursday to consider its verdict thank you joy that's our reporter an Auckland joint read
00:57:19
after all the evidence had been laid out in court it was time for the jury to decide the fate of Chris Cucuy but they
00:57:26
didn't need long in fact they reach a verdict in record time incredibly they came to their decision in just minutes
00:57:35
some say it was only one minute but others say it was a few minutes more than that but the court had already
00:57:42
adjourned for lunch so it was over an hour before the actual verdict was read we find the accused not guilty do you
00:58:02
find profuse Christopher sunny calorie guilty or not guilty on count two we have find the accused not guilty the
00:58:19
date of acquittal was the 22nd of May 2008 here is what Kahoot is lawyer Michele
00:58:27
Wilkinson Smith had to say these interviews are courtesy of New Zealand radio she starts by talking about how
00:58:35
quickly the jury reached their verdict it was a very long trial and during the trial they've obviously had time to
00:58:43
discuss some of the issues that arise I'm so presumably there are a lot of things that already discussed and your
00:58:49
response when they delivered that verdict hugely relieved and what about your clients I think he
00:58:55
felt like the same what's he doing now he went over the family what does he say to you he says very little make a Billy
00:59:03
speak actually the verdict how do you think they reached it I've got an idea um we we thought that there was red Ford
00:59:14
out in every possible area and presumably the jury agreed crucially it was the timing of the injuries yes and
00:59:22
whether it could be excluded basically whether Chris Carr was the only person who could possibly have suffered
00:59:27
injuries now of course that raises the question of who didn't flip the injuries and I can't really I mean gets advanced
00:59:35
inside the courtrooms quite properly but I can't talk about that outside the court but it was a crucial part of your
00:59:41
case you pointed the finger at the mother yeah I think I mean the way the case was run was simply a response for
00:59:48
the evidence that we had and but it's certainly not I can't outside the courtroom for reasons I'm
00:59:53
sure you're aware of really talk about who who might actually have done it so in that way there's no resolution here
01:00:01
well I mean all the only thing that the criminal justice system can do is work with evidence and unfortunately in some
01:00:08
cases there is no absolute you know proof as to who has done something like this and it's very very sad but it's
01:00:17
just a reality because in the end you can only collect someone if there's proof beyond reasonable doubt and if
01:00:22
there isn't there's no justice innocent to prison for something they didn't do the criticism of the police prosecution
01:00:28
and this are you suggesting that Chris Carr who should never have been charged I think the criticism that was labeled
01:00:36
during the case was appropriate for the jury to hear about because it was a circumstantial case and it's a question
01:00:41
of how confident that the jury could be that they were were fully praised of all
01:00:45
the circumstances however the police always do their best within the I think within these events that they have and
01:00:53
they present their case as they see it and in the crown presents the case as the Crown's visit and the system is
01:00:59
supposed to have safeguards in it so the crown reviews the police case and is a safeguard there but of course you know
01:01:05
nobody is perfect and people do make mistakes that's the whole reason we have a justice system that also has defense
01:01:12
counsel don't have input the other side who have the ability to look at the evidence who can say look him on that
01:01:17
doesn't quite work and then we have the jury who in the end of the ultimate safeguard and I think this case really
01:01:22
illustrates how well the system can work you know despite the fact it takes a long time and of all the criticism of
01:01:29
the way criminal trials are run you know you're not going to get any more impartial people in the end than 12
01:01:35
ordinary people who do not watch cases all the time or it could be a criticism of the way the police run investigations
01:01:42
well do you think the place is always to get it right I mean if you say the plea
01:01:45
as always get it right and they should never be a not-guilty then basically what you're saying is we don't need a
01:01:49
criminal justice system the police can get the risk someone and put them in prison our whole system assumes that the
01:01:54
police will not always get it right of course they want and again unfortunately in this case the tragedy of these boys
01:02:03
being killed we don't know the answer no we don't and it is an absolute tragedy and you know I've got three fathers I
01:02:10
found it quite difficult some of the events in this case I think lots of people have it's very very feared and
01:02:16
and you know the verdict is great we're very relieved at the verdict but it never takes away from the fact that
01:02:22
there are and you know these two babies who died and again I have to point out the defense called the police
01:02:28
investigation a disaster which is not merely making a mistake the ethics of the police investigation that certainly
01:02:34
the defense thought should have been done better disaster was the word that was used in court yeah wasn't I didn't
01:02:40
use it with you I mean that's probably an issue for another forum you know we're the defense counsel we're looking
01:02:47
at it from our point of view and care objective we are about whether it was a disaster or not it's not really for us
01:02:53
to look at in the end we put that before the jury we don't know how much the jury
01:02:56
took from it but as you say it's taken a toll on you this case oh it's a long case isn't it I think everyone involved
01:03:03
in it including the jury it's very I mean it's just sad you know you've got photos of a pall of a baby that's very
01:03:08
very sad there's no two ways about it said for chriscaro II said for the whole family and you know whoever did this
01:03:16
there's never really been a suggestion that that's were they cold-blooded murder whoever did this absolutely slept
01:03:21
because they weren't coping and you know public calling up for vengeance was fine
01:03:27
I understand it but he's going at the systems that are in place and how much assistance heroes and people out there
01:03:34
with little babies you know if they don't die of crying just put him down and walk away what
01:03:38
would you say about the effect this has had on on Chris Kahui it's really hard to tell he's grown up a lot in the
01:03:44
course of the trial you know he was 21 when it's bad he's 23 now and they're quite in 14 years I think his hands it
01:03:50
was surprising dignity he's been a very easy client to deal with and I hope that he can move on from this
01:03:59
INRI sort of life and I hope that the fact that he's recognizable everywhere isn't gonna hold a bit too much that's
01:04:04
Michelle Wilkinson Smith's the lawyer for Chris Carr hooey who's been acquitted of murdering his two baby sons
01:04:11
here's what Detective Inspector John Tim's had to say after the verdict I think it's important and I think the
01:04:20
message needs to be made clear that everyone that was that Courtney present over that weekend
01:04:29
just considered a person of interest and we thoroughly investigated each person until we identified crisco Hui and then
01:04:44
made the arrest there are no leads that we could follow up as I've said there is
01:04:48
no evidence to support a charge against any other person and that includes the mother
01:04:55
Maxine Akane I think we should all remember that the last two years has been about Chris and
01:05:02
crew-cut Hui the twins and nobody else and that has not changed for the result today this has been a tough
01:05:11
investigation a tough trial it's been a tough two years but what I would say is that with any child death those involved
01:05:26
whether the witnesses or offenders are normally related to the dead child with this comes the problem that the family
01:05:38
if loyalties to each other not always to the kid child so that was it from the police perspective all the evidence
01:05:47
pointed to Chris Cucuy nobody else but the jury acquitted him in record time there was nothing more they could do
01:05:57
[Music] there was a newspaper article released shortly after the trial which was pretty
01:06:04
concerning actually on taya's disturbing the article outlined that the trial was
01:06:10
put at risk when a juror on the case was at the pub with his friends and told them several members of the jury had
01:06:16
already said they didn't think Chris had killed his twins this was said after the
01:06:22
first days of what was a six-week trial so much for carefully considering all the evidence before coming to a decision
01:06:31
word eventually got back to the prosecutors and judges out this but all that came of it was the judge warning
01:06:38
the jury they had to consider all the evidence before reaching a verdict some law experts commented that it could have
01:06:45
been grounds for a mistrial after being acquitted of murder Chris became the father of a baby girl to a different
01:06:54
partner initially he was forced to live separate from his new partner and daughter but he was allowed to move in
01:07:02
two years later in 2010 however even then he wasn't allowed to be alone with his daughter as of 2012 he still had to
01:07:11
be supervised at all times with her child services were closely monitoring on the 4th of October 2010 a cranial
01:07:22
inquest into the twins death commenced held before coroner Gary Evans Chris had the right to silence at his criminal
01:07:30
trial but not so at the colonel inquest and banya Chris's stories had changed his version of what happened when Cruz
01:07:40
stopped breathing was one of the parts of his story that was now different at the inquest that changed a couple of
01:07:45
times actually he first said he gave Cruz CPR and he came right he later said he went to perform CPR but he didn't
01:07:55
have to because he came right and started breathing before he did anything but later still in the inquest he went
01:08:02
back to his original CPR story again he testified that he was freaking out really afraid and thought crew was dying
01:08:14
but instead of calling an ambulance and getting medical help he outlined how he sent his sister and his dad to find
01:08:20
Maxie no he was asked by the coroner that if he had a puppy and a stopped breathing would he call a vet Chris said
01:08:29
yes he would when the coroner then asked why didn't you call an ambulance will take crew to
01:08:35
the hospital when you stop reading Chris couldn't offer an explanation Chris also
01:08:44
testified that he now realized how important it was to establish when the twins were last fed and appeared healthy
01:08:51
he said looking back the twins didn't feed when they usually would have after Maxine are left he said he doesn't think
01:08:58
baby Chris cried or fed at all after Maxine I left but he couldn't say the same about crew as there was April's
01:09:05
testimony she fed him but it was clear what he was trying to do make it seem like Maxine could have injured them
01:09:13
before she left he now realized how important the timings were all right and he was changing the story but the three
01:09:24
statements he gave to police were done one before and two soon after the twins death which was now four years ago in
01:09:33
these statements he said that he had fed them numerous times after Maxine had left when asked the reason for his
01:09:41
changing his story Chris's defense claimed he hadn't told the truth to the police because it was a
01:09:46
simple boy and he didn't want the police to think he was a bad father I'm not having fed the twins that night
01:09:51
at all the coroner wasn't buying it and Chris himself conceded in cross-examination when he said in his
01:10:00
police interviews four years earlier would have been his best recollection of what had occurred not near
01:10:09
the coroner asked Chris about his time alone in the room with the twins just prior to when crews stopped breathing
01:10:15
the coroner asked him what was he doing in there Chris replied I think I was picking up
01:10:22
stuff off the ground the coroner said it wouldn't take three minutes to pick up stuff with it Chris said no the coroner
01:10:32
said so what else were you doing Chris said I can't remember what I was doing in there the coroner found that Chris's
01:10:44
behavior was consistent with trying to avoid medical authorities as he knew the twins were in a bad way he was scheming
01:10:51
he said the behavior of Chris Cucuy in turning his back on the pressing needs of his sons for medical attention
01:10:58
straight away is incompatible with that of a normal father whose only concerns are his children's welfare this bugged
01:11:09
telephone call recorded by police between Chris and his father banjo doesn't paint a great picture
01:11:17
chris is recorded as saying see [ __ ] if we never went into the hospital that time we went to the doctor's [ __ ]
01:11:25
they probably never would have found out bnj said who chris said the police when
01:11:33
they ain't even you know if we never had checked up on anything and then we still
01:11:38
probably you know if the boys you know the coroner also asked Chris about the period of time when maxi no first
01:11:50
presented the twins to the hospital when she tried repeatedly to call him and get
01:11:54
him up there but he was too busy with the PlayStation the coroner asked what she worried about the twins house
01:12:03
Kris said yes she was karna and she wanted you to come to the hospital to be with her
01:12:12
Chris yes karna because you were the father Chris yes karna well why did you not go Chris I
01:12:26
did not really want to be walking up to the hospital Coroner you did not really want to be walking up to the hospital
01:12:36
Chris yes I would have rather her come to pick me up [Music] never mind the twins condition at the
01:12:46
time and Max ena was up there freaking out never mind there was another car that was in the driveway that he could
01:12:52
have taken and never mind that the hospital actually wasn't that far away and was well within walking distance the
01:13:02
coroner was satisfied that the injury suffered by the twins that led to their death were not accidental in nature the
01:13:09
cause of death was the result of the application of force at the hands of another or others and that more than
01:13:15
likely their injuries were inflicted at the same time by the same person he found that Chris Kukui knew something
01:13:24
was wrong when the twin ceased to cry out to be fed and he knew they were obviously unwell
01:13:31
for reasons of his own he neglected the Sun and medical help they urgently needed he fee and cellphone records
01:13:38
corroborated Maxine a king's story of her whereabouts on the night he found it implausible and in direct contradiction
01:13:45
to a lot of other evidence that Maxine it could have returned home and injured the twins in fact he said there wasn't
01:13:54
ask Eric of evidence to suggest that Maxine had anything to do with their injuries once all of the evidence had
01:14:02
been presented at the korangal inquest everyone eagerly awaited the coroner's official ruling a coroner has found the
01:14:12
violent deaths of the Kahui twins happened while they were in the sole care of their father Chris Kahua the
01:14:18
three month old twins Chris and crew died of head injuries in 2006 Chris Kyle Hui was found not guilty of killing the
01:14:26
babies after a five-week criminal trial in the High Court at Auckland in 2008 the coroner's inquests into the deaths
01:14:33
of the twins began in October 2010 and were completed in June last year in a report published this morning the
01:14:41
coroner Gary Evans says the twins died from brain injuries suffered while they were in the sole custody Care and
01:14:47
Control of Chris Kyle Hui at their South Auckland home he says the twins were injured in the same manner at the same
01:14:54
time and at the hands of the same person the coroner dismissed claims the twins could have been injured by their mother
01:15:01
Maxine a king or by her brother Stuart King what our reporter Sam Mora joins me now Sam the coroner here basically is
01:15:09
establishing the facts of what happened that's right Simon the the coroner finds
01:15:14
that both Chris and crew died in hospital on June the 18th 2006 now this was as a result of injuries that
01:15:21
happened when they were in the care of their father Chris Carr Hui now the 77 page report says Chris Carr Hui was
01:15:28
resentful of the fact he'd been left by his partner Maxine a king to care for the twins in fact it says that he was
01:15:35
angered by her absence for the second night in a row the evening the injuries were inflicted on the babies that is
01:15:41
June the 12th now the coroner says the twins were in every respect normal and well at 1:00 p.m. on
01:15:47
June the 12th but there was no evidence that their father fed him that afternoon
01:15:51
or evening or the next morning the report says he hid the fact the twins were not crying or eating and were
01:15:57
unwell and the coroner sees that keeping this from the twins mother and the others in the house is incompatible with
01:16:03
the behavior one would reasonably expect from a normal father who had nothing to
01:16:08
hide concerning his children's condition now the report says that the fact that twins were not feeding was vitally
01:16:15
important and from information which he kept to himself and it says after the time one of the Twins crews stopped
01:16:21
breathing mr. Carr who he resisted the views of other adults that an ambulance should be called or the twins should be
01:16:28
taken to hospital fundamentally the coroner says had they been taken to hospital their lives might have been
01:16:34
saved and of course we know the babies weren't taken to hospital until the following day so what is the evidence
01:16:39
this finding is based on well the coroner gives a detailed account of what happened in June 2006 he outlines a list
01:16:47
of things mr. Carr who he has said both in court and during various interviews with the police and other authorities
01:16:53
but he says there is no evidence to support these statements he points out the Kris Carr who he made a fundamental
01:16:59
change to his evidence at the inquest into his son states that is that the twins did not cry or feed again after
01:17:05
midday on June the 12th and this contradicts the evidence given in his three earlier police statements that the
01:17:11
twins had been feared by him again later that day now the coroner says it's likely the
01:17:16
false account given by mr. Carr who he was to protect himself by representing that the twins remained well whilst in
01:17:22
his hands and he says he found Kris Carr who is evidence seriously conflicting in nature
01:17:28
lacking in credibility and not to be relied upon and Sam what does the coroner say about the earlier criminal
01:17:34
proceedings címon the coroner's court is only concerned with questions affect questions relating to criminal
01:17:41
responsibility have already been tried out and disposed off by the High Court but the question of how the twins came
01:17:47
to meet their death is quite different to wither mr. Carr who he bears any responsibility in terms of the criminals
01:17:52
law for their deaths and of course he has been found to be in no such responsibility but the
01:17:57
the coroner's report is to identify the causes and circumstances of the twins death and again they're finding is that
01:18:05
the twins died from brain injuries suffered while in sole custody hear and control of Chris Carr Hawaii and as you
01:18:12
mentioned earlier the coroner also dismisses the claims the twins could have been killed by their mother Maxine
01:18:17
a king or her brother Stuart King the coroner says there is not ask Eric of evidence that Maxine a king was at home
01:18:25
at the time of the injuries at the time the injuries happened let alone that she
01:18:29
had a motive to kill her own children and did so and likewise the coroner says there is not a scintilla of evidence to
01:18:36
support the allegation that Stuart king heard the twins and what response has there been to the coroner's findings
01:18:42
from Chris Kahua well mr. kaui and his legal representatives have declined to comment
01:18:47
on the findings but they have issued a statement in which mr. Carr who he again denies any involvement in the twins
01:18:53
deaths and strongly rejects the coroner's findings and what about the police what have they got to say the
01:18:59
police have also declined to comment but they too have issued a statement in which they say they thoroughly
01:19:04
investigated the deaths of the Kahui twins and put all available evidence before the court for examination and
01:19:10
judgment the police say they are still considering the evidence heard during the coroner's inquests and they will not
01:19:17
be making any further comment until their analysis is completed thank you Sam that's our reporter Sam Mauro
01:19:22
joining me in the studio now you're wondering given the result of the coronal inquest did the police like
01:19:31
fresh charges against Chris Kahoot well he's your answer the police in South Auckland say they will not be laying
01:19:40
further charges over the deaths of the car Hui twins the twins died in 2006 and a trial in 2008 cleared their father
01:19:48
Chris Kahui of their murder but the police have been reviewing the evidence since a coroner's report in July this
01:19:54
year said the babies died while in the sole care of their father the police have declined to be interviewed but
01:20:00
Chris Carr who is lawyer Lorraine Smith joins us now a good morning good morning Simon what does
01:20:04
this decision mean for your client it means the end of the criminal trial process um Simon I'm not at all
01:20:14
surprised at the decision that was released yesterday I'm superintendent Tim's and did that following a review of
01:20:21
the evidence at the coroner's inquest no sir the charges will be laid I was in Israel during the inquest but I
01:20:27
understand that no substantially different evidence from that given that the criminal trial was advanced and the
01:20:33
coroner's hearing talked I understand about three weeks whereas the jury trial who had evidence over seven weeks it was
01:20:41
presided over by a judge of the High Court and the jury included a medical doctor who was familiar with issues of
01:20:48
breathing on bleeding on the brain and we had a smart jury and that Brian Smith nevertheless the public has heard what
01:20:55
the coroner's got to say surely there's a cloud hanging over your clients head because of the coroner's view not at all
01:21:03
in my view there is absolutely no comparison between a coroner's inquiry in a High Court jury trial as I said I'm
01:21:12
not at all surprised by this decision but the the jury as you mentioned the jury the jury decides on evidence put
01:21:19
before it the coroner can take a broader view County it's not meeting the standard of a chronal standard of proof
01:21:26
well he heard exactly the same evidence he relitigated the the the trial and while we're on that topic I have no
01:21:34
doubt that our judges are going to be very concerned about real litigation of cases by the coroner relitigated
01:21:41
undermines the integrity of jury verdicts he's doing his job isn't he hadn't he's just doing his job I think
01:21:46
he went down the wrong track frankly and if I'd been in New Zealand I would well
01:21:50
I would have pointed this out to him what it means is that if the police aren't happy with a jury verdict they
01:21:58
can have another go on the contrary in the coroner's court and it's just not right and I think you'll find that that
01:22:05
judges especially in the High Court are extremely concerned about the suspect but never list the range Smith many in
01:22:11
the public might have read the coroner's report and think your clients to be blunt still did it
01:22:16
and many of them will have followed the jury trial which was seven weeks not three and come to the conclusion that
01:22:23
the jury got it right the police do say the case remains open and if there is new information that comes to hand they
01:22:29
look at it I mean would it be in your clients interest to try and find new information well how can any I mean he
01:22:35
did his best to you know to tell the police everything that he knew both when he was interviewed over a period of many
01:22:44
many years before the trial and when he gave evidence at the the inquest that this is going to remain a cold case
01:22:53
neither going to go away and tortoise and who killed the twins is found you