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[Music] this is part 2 of the Frankston serial killer if you haven't listened to part
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one yet please go back and do so before continuing we left last week just after the body of Natalie Russell was found
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the third victim of the Frankston serial killer and police had the registered owner's details of a suspicious vehicle
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that was seen on Sky Road at the time of Natalie's murder detectives are in a check and found that the vehicle
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belonged to a man by the name of Paul Charles at Daniel they saw Paul and his car had been checked out before - he had
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recently been spoken to by police sitting in his car alone at night in a nearby car park
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[Music] Paul Dania was born on the 14th of April 1972 making him 21 years old at the time
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he had four brothers and one sister Paul was the middle child Paul was average looking overweight with
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a baby face clean-cut and was quietly spoken he basically looked the total opposite of what you would expect a
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serial killer to look like his parents were Anthony and Marine Daniel they moved to Australia from the United
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Kingdom in 1965 they lived in Sydney and Adelaide before settling in Melbourne Paul didn't mix well with the other kids
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at school he struggled academically had low self-esteem and other kids tended to
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stay away from him leaving him isolated from a young age he displayed a complete
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lack of emotion about pretty much everything when he was 11 years old he cut the throat of his sister's teddy
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bear when confronted about it he just smirked around that time the family's cat was found hanging in a tree with its
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throat cut Paul blame the neighbours but his older brother noticed the blood on Paul's pocketknife
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at 13 he was arrested for stealing a car he ended up getting a caution for that because he was a juvenile at 15 he was
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charged with assault on a fellow student he was also caught staring through the window at one of his brother's
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girlfriends who was undressing Paul worked a number of menial jobs he was sacked from all of them through a that
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dishonesty all for being lazy he had an interest in knives and he liked going out on long walks by himself in the
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middle of the night he met his girlfriend Sharon Johnson while working at a grocery store one of the seven jobs
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he was sacked from Sharon was described as being very controlling demanding to know where he was at all times
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Paul was said to be well and truly under Sharon's thumb Sharon was opinionated and often rude and outspoken Paul was
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generally more reserved and softly spoken he had very few friends there was just Sharon and his family that he
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mainly associated with Paul applied to join the police force in early 1993 he failed the physical due to being
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overweight he knew the Frankston area well having lived there most of his life he spent a
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lot of time in his teenage you smoking marijuana with his brothers at both Lloyd Park where Elizabeth Stephens was
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found and along Taylor's Road where Deborah frame was found detectives paid Paul a visit at his Frankston North unit
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in the afternoon of the 31st of July 1993 the day after Natalie Russell was killed Paul was at home with his
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girlfriend Sharon they invited the detectives inside their small messy and barely furnished unit they asked all of
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the usual background questions then got down to business asking Paul what he had
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done and where he had been the day before Paul explained that he woke up about 7:30 a.m.
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he drove Sharon to work then went to an ATM in Seaford and withdrew $40 he then drove around to a few car wreckers to
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try and find a spare wheel for his old toyota he found one returned home worked on his car for a bit then went to a
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different car records to try and find a new speedo cable he called in to visit his mother while he was here but she
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wasn't home so he had a coffee with her boyfriend while he was out on this journey his car
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overheated so he had to pull over he topped the water up and went for a quick walk while waiting for the radiator to
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cool down he started the car but a short distance later had overheated again he pulled over on Sky Road checked under
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the bonnet and noticed the hose had come loose he needed a screwdriver so he closed the bonnet and walked home to get
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one also filling his water bottles up so he could top up the radiator again that
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was his explanation for being on sky Road detectives wanted to know why he didn't knock on one of the doors of the
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nearby houses to see if he could borrow a screwdriver and use their water Paul replied I don't like going into
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other people's houses the detectives then wanted to know why he didn't go to the nearby golf course
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Paul replied I didn't think of that Paul then explained the numerous scratches in
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the larger day big cuts on his middle finger and thumb were caused by all the work he was doing on his car the day
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before detectives have wanted to know what Paul was doing three weeks earlier the night Debbie frame disappeared
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Paul surprised them when he remembered specifically that it was a Thursday night and when he put himself at Kanin
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up drain station just around the corner from where Debbie frame disappeared Paul
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had just placed himself at the scene of two murders instead of questioning detectives and
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being suspicious as to why they are there asking him all these questions he sat back casually in the answered
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them all almost as if he was enjoying what was going on he was calm and relaxed barely batting an eyelid Paul
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agreed to go to the police station for a more formal interview he was taken to Frankston police station where he was
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interviewed by sergeant rod Wilson and Senior Constable mark Wolfe from the Homicide Squad
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the interview commenced at 9:20 p.m. on Saturday the 31st of July it was recorded on video they advised him he
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didn't have to say anything and that he also had the right to speak to a lawyer Paul said he didn't want to exercise
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either right he was happy to talk do may be given in evidence do you understand that yeah what is your age and date of
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birth 21 years old I was born on the 14th of April 1972 okay are you an Australian citizen Tim are you currently
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employed no when important present time what we'd like to do Paul is if you can just run through starting with yesterday
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morning I got up in the morning about 20 to 8:00 7:30 20 way they painstakingly went back over the story he had given
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them back at his unit detectives went over every detail there were contradictions and times weren't
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matching up the explanation he was giving through his injuries wasn't making much sense either
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[Music] coming down say hi scream or drive you noticed temperature gauge just started
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go up too high so I just pulled over in squad drove on you and right across the road a golf course
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and everything so I pulled up then I checked under the car doesn't bother seeing out the hose that come loose
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when we saw you down and your flat this afternoon I noticed a number of cuts on your fingers yeah
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please just time put your hands flat on the desk is that it just right up here this new heater is
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along that sort of a cut just explain how you got that injury and when you've got that injury I got it yesterday right
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and I was going on the car what they had you're saying it occurred well fan spins
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this way so if I'm saying it was from the car yeah yeah fierce means that way the alternator sits there it and this
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wires rained down underneath one of the radiator there's a white top on images for a white that I just recently from
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and unless I mean when I put my hand down there I caught the fans and what did you have it running yeah - died when
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you were checking down yet detectives asked him more questions about Debbie frame Paul stuck with his story putting
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himself a cannon up train station roughly at the same time and just around the corner from where Debbie went
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missing not only that there was the one night Paul failed to pick his girlfriend
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Sharon up from work amazingly on the night Elizabeth Stephens was voted he told detectives who was out walking in
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the rain he walked from his place to his mum's place then to Sharon's mom's place
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she says he was looking for a spare car battery the area he was walking and Lane
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worn right near Lloyd Park instead of giving himself an alibi all he was doing was placing himself at the scene of each
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murder yesterday it was opposite the location where the body of Natalie Russell was found on the noggin Debbie
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frame disappeared you walk down into Kendall railway station mister China walk back
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another night business Stevens disappeared you walked in a very close proximity Deloitte Park on your way to
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pick up this battery do you think that's fairly coincidental it is in all the all
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the circumstances are you responsible for the deaths of any of these women [Music]
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when they asked them specifically about Natalie Russell's murder Paul denied having anything to do with it but he
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said he was aware of what happened because he drove past the scene are you aware that girl was found murdered in
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Frankston here today being Saturday yeah and when did you first become aware that
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well I've saw some police cars and everything when I was driving up Sky Road this
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morning and SES workers so you saw SES workers and all that it's guy Road yes I asked what taped across the way are you
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sure he's what mate yeah I saw you I saw that was what were you doing when you saw he was then asked if he knew
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anything about the victims personally or how they died Paul report yeah Elizabeth Stevens had a
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throat cut and the other girl Debbie frame had multiple stab wounds or something to her body and upper body up
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here Paul pointed to the exact spot where Debbie's wounds were detective Wilson pounced why did you indicate the
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exact area I was just pointing that's all but why did you point there it was just a lucky guess
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[Music] when detectives asked if he would provide his fingerprints and a sample of
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his blood and hair Paul agreed but he started to look very uncomfortable detectives paused the interview for a
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coffee break and to wait for an officer to come and take his hair and blood samples the interview for a short time
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did you anything else you won like a cup of coffee or what - or are you to cover
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coffee especially during the break Paul went to the toilet the officer who escorted him to the
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toilet was Detective Darren o'loughlin Paul saw that oh Lachlan was wearing a cross and he started to ask him about
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religion the conversation then moved to DNA Paul wanted to know why they wanted his blood in hair had they found
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something at the scene and if they had how long would it take to match our Lachlan said he couldn't answer any of
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those questions he would have to check with detective Wilson Paul was silent for a short period of time before
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looking at her Lachlan and saying okay I killed all three of them a Lachlan immediately alerted detective
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Wilson and the interview was started again this time a Lachlan sat in on the interview as Paul seemed to take a
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liking to him some of the audio clips Europe er here are taken from the interview and some are taken from a
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walkthrough of the crime scenes that was done after the interview first they talked about the murder of Elizabeth
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Stevens he spoke to Detective our Lachlan here and you were told today to have a lock
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time that you were responsible for the murders of the three the three women is that correct just tell us in your own
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words Paul what happened in relation to the death of Elizabeth students and they
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want [Music] so get off the bus I walked up behind us it's not my least minute around whether
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they are sluggish I got no heat right he I started checking out with flames and she passed
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out after a while now pull the Apple knife then I dragged it away she was leaning down through the
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tree branches on there buddy can you tell me why you attacked her on that not this
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to sin just had the feeling my son what sort of feeling can you possibly describe when
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you had this feeling just wanted just wanted to kill the gun he describes wasn't a real gun it was a fake pretend
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gun he had made himself at home Paul also admitted to the attack on Rosa Toth the detective said what did you plan to
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do with Rosa Paul said I was just gonna drag her in the park and kill her that's all he went
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on to say that when Rosa ran away he caught the train from Seaford to Kenan oak and not long after getting off
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the train he saw Debbie friend getting out of her car at the shop okay can you tell us what happened here the car was
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sitting over there this is Debbie frames territory of a pulsar all right I was walking down this road here saw her jump
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out of the car he jumped on the back side of the car and then Kyle was directly across the
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road who said I could say a friend and saw the guy well of course you salute her is it at
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that time just that guy feeling so what he can do then she came out what I lost cracks
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down I could hear her footsteps coming close to the counter and she hopped in the car when she didn't see me in the
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back straight into this wall Paul then describes killing frame before detailing what happened after dragged her that had
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made her into the trays and places long against the fence break off two branches
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of nutrients back into Karenina by adjusted to what too close wasn't too fun huh he buried Debbie frames per
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salong the black track where he later attacked Natalie Russell he dug the purse up for detectives when they did
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the walkthrough of the crime scenes later on when asked why he killed Debbie frame
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his reply was I just wanted to Paul then details the murder of Natalie Russell what can you tell me about this went up
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there early in that day and cut the holes in the fences what did you use the cup holder identifiers and I'm still
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here and watched an athlete last walk around the corner through this whole waited behind a Tracy rod until I saw a
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walk pass here and hitting that way when she got about 10 meters down the track here I came out of the fence as we're
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walking along here mm-hmm are you still maintaining that distance behind her now is getting closer each
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time I walked along the grass like this will make a sound so you would be heard on a leather strap
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you will sanded it to pieces what was that usually it's Jana what was this one there's a strap on a pair of
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the doctor those I overheard I grabbed a here around mouth left hand while this I
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dragged us through here wonderful sound laziness before now boys wanted to kill seems mean sounds about right after
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the murder he walked back down the track towards his car and he actually saw the
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police they are checking in there he casually made his way out of the track and walked down sky road away from the
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police they were that close as you can hear from the interviews Paul displayed zero emotion and zero remorse that never
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changed he simply said he always wanted to kill and was just waiting for the right opportunity as the interview was
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taking place other police were searching his flat they found a hat with blood on
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it a large homemade knife and a long cord with two knots tied at each end the cord looked like it had hair on it
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in his car they found the fake gun he had made another large knife and a pair of pliers each pair of pliers leaves a
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distinctive mark much like a fingerprint and they were able to later match the pair of pliers they found in Paul's car
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as being the ones used to cut the hole in the fence at the crime scene of Natalie Russell
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[Music] remember back at the start of the story Donna vanes had a place breaking into
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and her cats were killed a death threat was written in blood on her wall she then moved to a sister Trish's place and
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Trish's neighbor Julia had also experienced a terrifying break-in where her throat was cut in all of her photos
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and her engagement dress was slashed they were comforted by a male neighbor who said whoever did it was a sicko and
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he would look out for them well that was Paul Daniel he lived next door to Tricia
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vanes [Music] he admitted to committing both of those break-ins he freely said that he went to
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Donna's place that night with the sole intention of killing her but she wasn't home so he killed her cats instead the
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reason he gave he hated Donna and Tricia it was through Trisha his neighbor that
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he met Donna and learned that she was home alone most nights that's why he targeted her the reason why he hated
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them wasn't given Donna was so fearful that she moved out of her unit not realizing she moved next door to the
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person responsible [Music] the feelings obviously weren't mutual because after Paul's arrest this is what
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Tricia had to say he was the nicest and most considerate person I ever met I could not believe it when I heard the
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news I still find it difficult to accept he was cool calm and collected he seemed
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quiet and subdued and often kept to himself another one of Paul's neighbors had this to say I just can't believe
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that the charges have been laid against him he seemed at the nicest of people Paul dénia was charged with three
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murders Elizabeth Stevens Debbie frame and Natalie Russell he was also charged with
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the abduction of Rosa Toth Paul pled guilty never trying to fight the charges while awaiting sentencing he was visited
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by many doctors and psychologists trying to find answers what they found was that
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Paul Daniel was a rare breed of serial killer murdering his victims at random without motive simply because he had
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always wanted to he had always felt like killing and he could no longer suppress
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his images he was able to describe his crimes without a flicker of emotion they found
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him to be extremely emotionally disturbed but not legally insane he was diagnosed as having a sadistic
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personality disorder demonstrated by a steady pattern of cruel demeaning and aggressive behavior since early
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adulthood he appeared amused by the psychological and physical suffering he inflicted on
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his victims there was in an interview with a psychologist that Dania mentioned his favorite movie was a horror movie
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called The Stepfather and that's where he got the idea to slash his victims throats because it seemed defective then
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you did try and claim that one of his older brothers had sexually abused him when he was younger but this claim was
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strongly denied by the brother and by his entire family Denya was sentenced in Melbourne Supreme Court on the 20th of
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December 1993 he was given three life sentences with no parole period the judge saying he was a danger to society
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for which nothing could be done then you showed no remorse and his only regret appeared to be the fact he was arrested
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11 days later Daniel lodged an appeal against his sentence on the grounds that it was excessive and that the sentencing
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judge should have given him a minimum term of imprisonment the appeal was heard in the Supreme
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Court in July 1994 three judges heard the appeal and they came to a majority verdict two to one overruling the trial
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judge's decision they granted Dania a non-parole period of 30 years meaning he could be released in seven years time
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when he's 51 years old when giving his non-parole period dénia said I will become a better person
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and I will not riaf end that's my promise to God as well as to the people of Melbourne but he still never said
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sorry for what he had done or showed a shred of remorse denny o'neil identifies as a woman and
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will only answer to the name Paula Dania has applauded to have gender reassignment surgery at the taxpayers
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expense that request was rejected Dania has also applauded the way makeup and other beauty products in prison that
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request was also rejected with that in mind consider this piece of the police interview conducted with Daniel just
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after the arrest can you explain why we have female victims Daniel I just hate them beg your pardon I hate them
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is that particular girls or females in general general years later Daniel wrote this in a
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letter from prison I'll put the pieces together like this a born feeling like the other sex be growing up interested
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in female things see fearing adulthood as a male D having to suppress my feelings e committing these
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crimes to try to destroy those feelings F living now with the acceptance of those feelings Danya continues I
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committed those disgusting crimes not because I ever hated womankind but because I never really felt that I was
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male unfortunately for me I used the word hate when police interviewed me because hate was the only emotion I
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thought could correctly identify with my confused identity in 2012 Daniel was interviewed by police in
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relation to four Prison rapes that had occurred on fellow inmates no charges ever followed from what I've been able
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to find [Music] Danya had experienced the urge to kill from a young age just 14 years old and
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had been following women around for years just waiting for the right time [Music]
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you