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for our next panel we are going to have
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uh a quick introduction to each of the
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three electric vertical takeoff and
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Landing vehicle companies the evall
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companies we'll see a video for uh
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introducing Joby and then uh Adam from
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Archer is going to introduce Archer and
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then Brian from wi and then we're going
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to have a conversation uh be back in a
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minute
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[Music]
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[Music]
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[Music]
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w
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I founded archer in 2018 to change the
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way the world
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moves Urban congestion isn't sustainable
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this leaves the average American stuck
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in traffic for dozens of hours per
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year to combat that challenge we built
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[Music]
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midnight all electric aircraft
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purpose-built to fly back-to-back trips
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over congested
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[Music]
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cities midnight takes off vertically
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like a helicopter then his propellers
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transition down to fly like an airplane
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it's designed to be piloted and carry
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four passengers and can travel at speeds
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up to 150
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mph since 2018 we've made an incredible
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amount of progress to bringing the
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midnight aircraft to
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Market our nearly 10,000 person team has
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designed built and tested the key
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enabling Technologies to bring electric
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Aviation to Market this has enabled us
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to raise nearly $1.5 billion to
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get however our goal is the same since
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day one to get to commercial
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[Music]
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launch our high volume manufacturing
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facility in Georgia will open up later
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this year and we have incredible
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partners that are helping us bring this
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Vision to
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[Music]
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life stellantis the owner of Jeep Ram
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and Maserati has invested nearly $300
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million to
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date United Airlines has ordered up to
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$1.5 billion of midnight aircraft and
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with Southwest our goal is to offer
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passengers 3-hour multimodal Journeys
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across
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[Music]
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Cali we have an industry-leading
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contract with Air Force and we recently
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delivered our first aircraft as part of
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that
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contract in La we recently announced
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plans for flight networks connecting
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Sofi Stadium USC LAX and Beyond we can't
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wait to bring midnight to a city near
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Europe
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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[Applause]
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Peter teal reminded us yesterday that
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flying cars are the peak of the hardware
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Revolution that never quite happened but
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as you just saw we're closer than ever
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to making it a reality the aircraft that
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the three of our companies design take
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off vertically like helicopters they do
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a complex maneuver to transition onto
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the wing into wingborne flight and Fly
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Like an aircraft when the founder of our
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company Larry Page first joined this
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Mission the technologies that enable
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these aircraft to fly were just starting
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to become possible the team that I lead
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has built the enabling Technologies in
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electrification and autonomy that's
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making this possible you see the prior
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five generations of aircraft that we've
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designed here on the screen behind me
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and that iterative design build approach
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has enabled us to get to the point where
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we are building now Generation 6 which
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is the first candidate for an fa
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certification of a passenger autonomous
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aircraft this aircraft is designed to
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take advantage of all of the prior
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technologies that we developed through
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those prior iterations and to operate
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without a pilot on board on those
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missions there's two technology trends
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that we are all uh in that we are all
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using to create these aircraft Motors
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and the the same simplification that's
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coming to your cars and batteries and
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the same advances that are coming to
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your cars and also to your cell phones
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and second autonomy and autonomy has a
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lot of parts to it so we have to for the
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first time in a commercially certifiable
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way show how we can operate and
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supervise an aircraft from the ground
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display information in in a way that is
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safe from a human factor standpoint to
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supervise that aircraft to use sensors
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on the airplane in the same way you
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would for an autonomous ground vehicle
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to create the software and the
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computation to be able to then fly that
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aircraft autonomously but when you make
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robots people don't go away they change
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what they're doing and so we use those
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aircraft to actually do deployment
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testing in networks here in Los Angeles
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yeah last year we flew the first
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electric Vall aircraft in the Los
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Angeles area and we showed what's
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possible with these aircraft and how
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people can engage with them we are also
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working on the human interface with air
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traffic control because again even
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though we have an autonomous aircraft
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our aircraft still has to interface with
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today's air traffic control system like
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what you saw yesterday from weo we use
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existing flying cars AKA helicopters
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that are piloted to take that sensor
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package and those computation uh
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abilities and put them onto of a a
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piloted helicopter to perfect the
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algorithms that we use for doing things
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like Det protecting and avoiding other
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traffic in environments uh where there's
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different lighting and where the
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aircraft that you might collide with
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potentially that you want to avoid is
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above or below the Horizon we also have
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to be able to fly these aircraft without
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the presence of GPS as we see in
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conflicts around the world today we
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cannot rely on GPS to be able to fly an
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autonomous aircraft so now once you have
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that technology stack you need to turn
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it into an actual airplane and all the
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things that Peter talked about about
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potentially being a bad industry to to
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go into uh in the 9s are now becoming
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ever more important the ability to uh do
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aerodynamics to do mechanical
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engineering to create these aircraft are
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now more important than ever and uh by
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the end of this year we'll be flying
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this aircraft which will be the first
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attempt at certifying a passenger
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carrying autonomous aircraft so let's
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bring the guys out and we'll talk about
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it all right
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well I think that there's a lot of
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people that probably need an
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introduction to Vall in a more basic way
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before we talk about the technology
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whether it's the actual vehicle itself
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or whether it's the um the world's best
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pilot if you will MH
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um for the folks out here if they are
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going to interact with these systems
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whether autonomous or not what do you
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think are going to be the biggest issues
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that they are going to care about and
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will want resolved before they see it in
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their Community maybe Joe B if you want
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to start yeah I think the number one
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issue and you know for everybody when
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you're getting in an aircraft is is this
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going to be safe but then for both the
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the passengers what they care about is
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is something that's going to
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dramatically change the way they they
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move around their cities and save them
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time and in order to do that you need to
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have takeoff and landing locations that
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are located both close to where you are
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and close to where you want to go and so
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priority uh 2 through n in people's
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priority stack is about noise and making
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an acoustic signature that's going to uh
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get communities to see this as uh a a
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real advantage and uh something that's
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uh increases the value of uh of living
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in that Community because you're you're
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close to this new mode of
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transportation um do you guys think that
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when you see a thousand of these things
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flying around let's let's just take a
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place uh in Meno Park
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California
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um are they going to be forced to have
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very specific sort of like air highways
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that they have to adhere to or what is
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the best thinking right now in terms of
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how the regulatory bodies are going to
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sort of enable you guys to actually fly
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commercially as quickly as possible he
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brand turn you if we if we just take a
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step back the product exists they're
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called helicopters and a helicopter is
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actually way more complex than what
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we're building we're actually building a
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much more simplified version of what
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exists it's safer it's fully redundant
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and so it should Inspire confidence for
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people to to want to come and take these
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vehicles the way they'll start though is
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going to be really slow if you think
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about every major city in the world they
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have hospitals those hospitals have
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helicopters this product exists
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everywhere so if you took all three of
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us you took our most bullish estimates
00:11:00
that we have and you tripled them we
00:11:02
still would not even replace helicopters
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so to get to the point where you're
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asking thousands of vehicles in the air
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over one city or even hundreds is pretty
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far away we could all deploy tens of
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thousands of vehicles we could the three
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of us be a trillion dollar companies and
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there still would not be thousand
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hopefully there still would not be you
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know thousands of vehicles in the air
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but to make the product really really
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great you do want liquidity you do want
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a lot of vehicles in on dense routes so
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you don't have to worry about is it
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available is it not available like an
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Uber right you just it's thumbs up it's
00:11:36
available or thumbs down it's not
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available it doesn't matter what seat
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you get it saves your time that's where
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we're all trying to get but I think just
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to frame it sorry Adam is it is it a
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thing where it is like uber where
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there's going to be a version where you
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get in with people you don't know or you
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think this is just like one person
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Provisions it for themselves and then
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they go from point A to point B no
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absolutely the vision is uh you know a
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service that's available for everyone
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the good news is you can scale these
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vehicles because they're just much more
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simple than helicopters we don't have
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all the limiting factors that
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helicopters have so you can put a lot
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more from the air you can push the
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prices way down and make it very
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affordable Bri it's also a dramatically
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faster trip so you're you're in it for a
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few minutes to get across La instead of
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in in Uber where you might be sitting in
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traffic for an hour or two right um
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yesterday we heard from Teedra from the
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CEO of weo their first launch city was
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Phoenix the layout was good but mostly
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it was really regulatorily um amenable
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amenable um Brian what is the version of
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Phoenix for Evol is there a city
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somewhere that has said we want this now
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come and help us figure this out yeah
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Houston Houston is is where we're
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working most specifically um and it's
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not just because Woody lives there
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either um but but seriously Houston is
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um you know the the Airport network in
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Houston is actually quite good
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connecting couple of the airports around
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uh the Houston area it turns out that
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operating at airports initially is
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actually quite a good place to start
00:13:06
because like I said you know these
00:13:08
aircraft they come with a footprint you
00:13:09
know they really come with like people
00:13:11
and operations and if you've ever seen
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an airport tarmac area um it's you can't
00:13:16
just drop that in the middle of a city
00:13:17
on day one so starting at airports as an
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initial operating area is quite good um
00:13:23
it turns out you know what you saw in
00:13:24
that video was from an airspace
00:13:26
integration standpoint and where we were
00:13:28
going on routes and so on um New Zealand
00:13:31
is has been incredibly Forward Thinking
00:13:33
in terms of how to evolve their airspace
00:13:35
Network so they have more um digital
00:13:38
Communications more of an ability to
00:13:40
integrate un crude aircraft with crude
00:13:42
aircraft in the same airspace and so
00:13:44
we've been doing quite a lot of work in
00:13:46
New Zealand on that front but hold on I
00:13:48
I mean I think it's to me super clear
00:13:51
this does not start in the US I really
00:13:52
think it starts internationally I think
00:13:54
the regulatory environment here both
00:13:57
both of us work in the UAE pretty
00:13:59
extensively I mean if I'm going to guess
00:14:02
just on the press that you put out Joe B
00:14:04
met the head of the um civil aviation
00:14:06
Authority in the UAE yesterday I'm
00:14:08
leaving tonight on a plane to go meet
00:14:09
him as well and so you know we are
00:14:11
targeting Abu Dhabi they've been
00:14:13
targeting Dubai and the reason is there
00:14:16
is a you know a very heavy support for
00:14:20
new innovation and the challenge like
00:14:22
the reason why I feel like all three of
00:14:23
us are up on stage here is probably
00:14:25
because of the the whole Woody video
00:14:27
that we just watched we all learned
00:14:29
about NASA as young kids and were
00:14:30
inspired by new things but the challenge
00:14:34
is the existing environment today makes
00:14:37
that very hard and these are companies
00:14:39
that were started in America with
00:14:41
American Engineers that have raised
00:14:43
capital from the American Venture
00:14:44
community that are listed on the
00:14:46
American stock exchanges yet we still
00:14:48
can't launch in America and that is
00:14:50
really challenging and I think part of
00:14:53
it is back to what Bill Gurley talked
00:14:55
about last year a regulatory capture the
00:14:57
walls are huge to climb and in fact the
00:15:00
more things go bad with the incumbents
00:15:02
the harder it is for us I don't think
00:15:03
that's done on purpose but that's very
00:15:05
challenging for us now I I I would I
00:15:07
would say that the amount of bipartisan
00:15:09
support on on both sides of the aisle in
00:15:12
Washington is off the charts the amount
00:15:14
of local support uh support with States
00:15:18
uh it the you know yesterday I was in
00:15:21
Montreal at the uh International civil
00:15:24
aviation uh Association conference uh
00:15:27
where they ConEd this is the first time
00:15:30
and they were convening 1800 people uh
00:15:33
to focus on uh Advanced Air mobility and
00:15:37
so this is really exciting to see how
00:15:40
much momentum there is and it's
00:15:41
imperative that the US continue to lead
00:15:44
Aviation is one of our most important
00:15:45
exports uh it's been vital to our
00:15:48
economy and it is really really
00:15:51
important that uh we we lean forward and
00:15:54
we make the the certification process
00:15:57
and just to double click on this for a
00:15:58
second I can see how Joe Ben and Adam
00:16:00
you guys Pure Play startups you know you
00:16:03
have to find the
00:16:05
Willing
00:16:07
parent um but you have the benefit of
00:16:10
Boeing mhm um and is that why your
00:16:12
answer was Houston is because they have
00:16:14
that I guess regulatory gravitas to be
00:16:18
able to go and help there or no you're
00:16:20
still mostly on your own trying to
00:16:21
figure no no yeah so we so the yeah the
00:16:23
Journey of our company was obviously you
00:16:25
know started by Larry started by Larry
00:16:27
became Kittyhawk turned into a joint
00:16:29
Venture and and uh and and eventually um
00:16:32
we sold the company to Boeing uh last
00:16:34
year and uh so we still operate as an
00:16:37
independent company a lot like the whmo
00:16:39
um Google relationship right now uh for
00:16:41
us the difference is we're really trying
00:16:44
to Pioneer the pathway to the
00:16:45
introduction of autonomous aircraft at
00:16:48
the same time and that's a longer
00:16:50
Journey so Joe Ben and Adam are are
00:16:52
going to be operating before us there's
00:16:54
no doubt because piloted aircraft are
00:16:56
coming before these uncrewed aircraft
00:16:59
um I think autonomy is key to the future
00:17:02
of aviation in the small airplane space
00:17:04
if you look at the the um the the the
00:17:07
causes of of incidents and the accident
00:17:10
rates in helicopters right now they're
00:17:11
just unacceptable and um and I think
00:17:14
that that can be solved by automation
00:17:16
I'm really passionate about that so for
00:17:18
us we're on a longer journey and the
00:17:20
question is then uh on that Journey um
00:17:23
how do we make sure that the US leads in
00:17:25
that and we're trying to Pioneer the
00:17:27
regulatory Pathway to ensure that it
00:17:29
happens here in the United States but
00:17:31
we're also working around the globe like
00:17:32
I mentioned in New Zealand where there
00:17:34
are Regulators who potentially want to
00:17:37
lean forward and innovate on airospace
00:17:39
or some other aspects of the problem
00:17:41
that we're trying to solve I mean Adam
00:17:42
Adam mentioned the concept of regulatory
00:17:44
capture but one of our besties Sky
00:17:46
Dayton who's on joby's board wrote this
00:17:48
great essay and one of the things that's
00:17:51
clear is that a lot of the pushback to
00:17:53
the vision that you have Brian actually
00:17:55
comes from the pilots unions themselves
00:17:58
right I I think it's a bit of a weird
00:18:00
set of incentives no do you want to just
00:18:01
talk about that for a second I think
00:18:02
it's less salacious than that and more
00:18:05
uh clinical I mean the the and I'll give
00:18:07
an example well so I have my vision for
00:18:09
the future is that we're going to have a
00:18:10
prolific amount of uncrewed small
00:18:12
aircraft that are operating doing that
00:18:14
kind of missions that we're just talking
00:18:15
about but that large C pilot large
00:18:18
aircraft are going to be piloted for
00:18:20
probably as far as the eye can see I
00:18:22
think the Practical aspect of it
00:18:24
honestly is that in 2023 here's a
00:18:26
statistic for you that just blows my
00:18:28
mind as a developer of airplanes in 2023
00:18:31
there were 30 million Global flights
00:18:33
carried billions of Passenger implements
00:18:36
number of people that got on board the
00:18:37
airplane um scheduled service you know
00:18:40
Airlines zero accidents zero what zero
00:18:45
in 2023 zero so so it's it's less
00:18:49
salacious than than uh there's a cabal
00:18:52
that's trying not to certificate things
00:18:55
there is a natural conservatism in the
00:18:57
system of holy
00:18:59
we've done it it's working don't change
00:19:02
it so when new technology shows up it I
00:19:05
I understand the perspective of a
00:19:07
regulator that's sitting on the other
00:19:08
side of that wall and it's saying man
00:19:11
this is kind of working um okay then
00:19:13
just to put you on the spot I mean I can
00:19:15
see you know when Joe Ben and Adam say
00:19:17
hey point A to point B instead of hours
00:19:19
in traffic you're there in 10 minutes if
00:19:21
there are really no pilot errors unlike
00:19:25
in cars where there's still far too many
00:19:27
unnecessary deaths
00:19:29
how do you measure the
00:19:31
incremental justification for the
00:19:33
investment let alone the reason to the
00:19:35
statistic that I just gave you is for
00:19:36
large aircraft scheduled air carriers if
00:19:39
you then look at the small airplane
00:19:40
Market or you look at helicopter markets
00:19:42
it is it is orders of magnitude it's
00:19:44
well it's Infinity more you know so but
00:19:46
it's it's it's way worse and so the
00:19:48
question is how do you bring the level
00:19:51
of safety of those large aircraft how do
00:19:53
you bring that same level of safety down
00:19:55
into the get rid of recreational pilot
00:19:56
you have to start you just have to start
00:19:58
I mean there is definitely this panel
00:20:00
exists in China guess what there's two
00:20:02
groups that are already certified there
00:20:04
they started that's how you do it you
00:20:06
have to get moving you have to set an
00:20:08
environment where we can all start
00:20:10
flying stuff when we can do it A to B
00:20:12
and when you're using a large aircraft
00:20:14
you're dividing the two pilots expense
00:20:17
amongst 300 seats or 100 seats and in
00:20:19
this case you would have a pilot on a
00:20:20
Joby flight with which really the
00:20:23
Pilot's not doing anything there's
00:20:25
they're not flying it so it's they're
00:20:27
there to make the passengers feel safer
00:20:31
is my understanding
00:20:33
yeah the pilot you know there there are
00:20:36
even with with what Brian's doing uh
00:20:39
with the incredible pioneering work on
00:20:41
um on autonomy you you still have
00:20:44
somebody on the ground who's uh making
00:20:47
sure that the weather is going to be
00:20:48
safe and uh lots of other operational
00:20:51
Logistics the benefit is you get to take
00:20:53
that person out of the aircraft and put
00:20:54
them on the ground so you get to put
00:20:56
another passenger in the aircraft um you
00:20:58
get a lot of operational flexibility uh
00:21:01
because you're the the you don't
00:21:03
necessarily have to have the pilot and
00:21:04
the plane at the same location at the
00:21:06
same time uh a pilot can over time begin
00:21:09
to operate multiple do the pilot do in
00:21:11
ajobi because my understanding is it's
00:21:13
automated so they're sitting there just
00:21:15
monitoring it they're making sure that
00:21:18
all of the operations are going to go
00:21:20
safely the pilot AR flying there's a
00:21:22
there's sticks right I
00:21:24
mean there is the option for the the the
00:21:27
pilot to fly fly with the sticks as well
00:21:29
so in an emergency situation they would
00:21:30
take over but it's autopilot essentially
00:21:33
there are a lot of a lot of computer
00:21:35
systems that are helping the pilot fly
00:21:37
and when one rotor goes down I mean one
00:21:41
of the great things about this is when
00:21:42
you have a
00:21:43
helicopter you know a rotor breaks you
00:21:47
die essentially we have layer on layer
00:21:49
of redundancy we have six six propellers
00:21:52
and each one's driven by separate motors
00:21:53
with each separate inverter with each a
00:21:55
separate battery pack and so it's just
00:21:57
you know the same thing with the flight
00:21:58
computers in the uh everything's
00:22:00
massively redundant what would it take
00:22:02
and that's what we did in big commercial
00:22:03
airlines which is why uh you get the
00:22:06
incredible safety that that Brian was
00:22:08
talking about yeah I mean we haven't had
00:22:09
a passenger death in the United States I
00:22:11
think the last one was 2009 and the last
00:22:13
three passenger jets that went down the
00:22:15
United States were all regional Jets
00:22:17
which we all know that there's a
00:22:18
collection of problems there um so what
00:22:21
would it take theoretically when you're
00:22:23
doing your you know edge cases what are
00:22:26
the edge cases that are the most
00:22:27
challenging in terms of
00:22:29
safety well so uh you know with our
00:22:34
initial certification we are not
00:22:36
certifying for flight in known icing for
00:22:38
example so if you if you live in the
00:22:41
North Northeast uh you know there will
00:22:44
be uh a few percent of the time where we
00:22:47
won't be able to offer service you'll
00:22:48
just ground them during ice conditions
00:22:50
you're not going to JFK when it's
00:22:52
snowing well when it's snowing you may
00:22:54
be able to go but if it's there's
00:22:55
certain conditions where where you get
00:22:58
heav icing in terms of concerns and
00:23:01
things that could make these go down
00:23:04
exactly so is there anything else though
00:23:05
that could you know what's like the
00:23:07
what's like the the wind speed or
00:23:08
gusting kind of condition Max and so on
00:23:11
uh so we're actually very tolerant to
00:23:13
that it was actually it was interesting
00:23:15
proba better than a wing than a winged
00:23:16
aircraft I would imagine right right
00:23:18
yeah and and so there's these these
00:23:19
folks at Nasa who are working on
00:23:21
Wildfire prevention yeah and they came
00:23:24
they've they came and did a not the
00:23:26
welfare prevention folks but NASA came
00:23:28
and did did an acoustic survey where
00:23:30
they put out uh a whole array of
00:23:31
microphones and we flew the aircraft in
00:23:34
Hover and transition uh overlight Etc
00:23:37
and measured the acoustic signature and
00:23:39
um showed that it was really low and
00:23:41
could fit in the environment in terms of
00:23:43
uh but yesterday I was having a
00:23:45
conversation with them on Wildfire
00:23:46
prevention they're like these kinds of
00:23:47
aircraft are going to be game changers
00:23:49
for for Wildfire because with
00:23:51
helicopters they can't handle really
00:23:52
turbulent conditions when you've got
00:23:54
lots of convection from the wildfire and
00:23:56
and you have six Motors we have six
00:23:58
rotors and so there's this thing called
00:24:00
Vortex ring state that uh affects
00:24:02
vertical takeoff and Landing aircraft
00:24:04
and you aren't going to have all six
00:24:06
rotors go into Vortex ring State at the
00:24:08
same time and you can also one of the
00:24:10
cool things they found out with the
00:24:11
Osprey is if you just tilt the rotors
00:24:12
forward that you can get very very
00:24:14
quickly get out of Vortex ring state so
00:24:16
basically these new new classes of
00:24:18
aircraft and what you can do with
00:24:20
electric propulsion and I I don't think
00:24:21
we've talked about that enough is is
00:24:23
what a GameChanger electric propulsion
00:24:24
is can you talk about the the acoustic
00:24:26
issue so give us some context for the
00:24:29
decibel tolerance where what and what
00:24:33
was you know in a city and give us a
00:24:35
comparison to stuff that exists today a
00:24:36
big truck diesel truck helicopter like
00:24:39
and what do we need to be at for this to
00:24:41
be ubiquitously accepted in cities and
00:24:44
then what's the technology needed to get
00:24:45
the acoustic breakthroughs needed yeah
00:24:47
so the background noise level in in
00:24:49
cities is around 65 DB and so we set
00:24:52
that as our threshold for this is the
00:24:54
level that we want uh want things you
00:24:57
know want aircraft to be below during
00:24:59
takeoff and Landing you want you don't
00:25:01
want to be Beyond background right we
00:25:03
want to be below 45 DB in overflight um
00:25:06
and and we've achieved both of those
00:25:07
goals uh you know you asked about other
00:25:10
things you know I think a garbage truck
00:25:11
is uh 80 or 90 DB every they're the
00:25:15
worst exactly the worst like every 10 DB
00:25:18
is an order of magnitude more noise
00:25:20
energy so it's uh you know a jet engine
00:25:23
is like 110 DB helicopters are between
00:25:26
80 and 100 DB uh the other thing about
00:25:29
helicopters that people find really
00:25:30
annoying is it's this low frequency
00:25:33
and that low frequency sound travels
00:25:35
long distance through the atmosphere and
00:25:38
so what's the tech needed like it shakes
00:25:40
buildings and really what was yeah
00:25:42
what's the tech needed to bring the
00:25:44
acoustic like how hard is well I mean we
00:25:46
you know when I when I started joy in
00:25:48
2009 uh so it's 15 uh 15 years ago uh
00:25:53
this week so it's like I've been working
00:25:55
on this a long time I've been dreaming
00:25:57
about it since I was a kid
00:26:01
um and it's it's incredible to see the
00:26:03
industry that we've built and uh and
00:26:06
again yesterday to see like thousands of
00:26:08
people gather just to focus on all of
00:26:10
the issues of bringing this to their
00:26:11
cities around the world so that that's
00:26:13
really exciting um
00:26:16
and the the you know the roll out and
00:26:19
and the impact that this is going to
00:26:20
have on cities is just really really
00:26:22
exciting so let me ask you guys you're
00:26:23
eff just you're spinning the propellers
00:26:26
slower that's what you're doing that's
00:26:27
the electric engine do that just create
00:26:29
lower noise that that gets you like 90%
00:26:31
of the benefit and then from there you
00:26:33
work to all the little efficiencies to
00:26:35
get that stuff out so let me ask you
00:26:37
guys about like the the convenience of
00:26:38
owning a car and like America kind of
00:26:41
popularized this idea that everyone
00:26:43
should own a car and then we all got a
00:26:44
car the benefit of a car is it's point
00:26:46
to point I can go from any point a to
00:26:47
any point B um how do you guys think
00:26:50
about the challenge of it's such a pain
00:26:53
in the ass to go to a port just like
00:26:55
it's a pain in the ass to go to a bus
00:26:56
station take a bus or you know Subway go
00:26:59
to a spot in New York it works where
00:27:00
things are dense enough but like in most
00:27:03
cities in the United States this is like
00:27:06
it is preferable to take a car because I
00:27:08
can do point A to point B and my
00:27:10
convenience which my time is always
00:27:12
faster taking a car how how do you kind
00:27:14
of think about the calculus of the
00:27:16
benefit here when I have to go to a port
00:27:18
to be able to take the vehicle to the to
00:27:19
the next Port I I think you know your
00:27:21
spot on I think of where we are today is
00:27:23
very similar to where uh the automotive
00:27:25
industry was was in the 1890s where it
00:27:28
was before we had the ability to mass
00:27:30
produce cars we we were building tens
00:27:32
and then hundreds of cars and uh that
00:27:36
didn't give the scale and so what we
00:27:37
were using cars for was taxis we are in
00:27:40
a similar mode today where we are going
00:27:42
to use these aircraft as taxis uh we
00:27:45
still need to save people time and so
00:27:47
there's only going to be select routes
00:27:48
where this is a game changer because of
00:27:50
the multimodal nature uh where you need
00:27:52
to uh and you may not have a takeoff and
00:27:55
Landing location exactly where you want
00:27:57
to leave from and go to but over time if
00:28:01
we can get the acoustic signature down
00:28:03
if we can make these aircraft even
00:28:04
quieter than they are today rather than
00:28:06
needing to go to a a dedicated ver port
00:28:09
to do this the dream is to eventually be
00:28:11
able to land them at your house Adam
00:28:13
let's talk about um propulsion for a
00:28:15
second energy density cost those
00:28:18
trade-offs speed these are all variables
00:28:20
that kind of just work opposing each
00:28:22
other um what were some design decisions
00:28:25
you guys made and um did you have to
00:28:29
remake some of those did you change your
00:28:30
mind at some point and just walk us
00:28:32
through that process the biggest
00:28:34
challenge I think of building these
00:28:36
aircraft is just the time it takes to do
00:28:39
it it is very expensive and it does not
00:28:42
fit any typical model meaning the
00:28:44
Venture guys don't like it and so
00:28:47
they're like sorry you want a billion
00:28:48
dollars UPF front to build this like
00:28:50
that's terrible you rejected me you
00:28:51
rejected me I don't think I met with you
00:28:54
uh like everybody rejected probably all
00:28:56
of us up here so it's not a typical you
00:29:00
know what I mean like Mom that's the
00:29:01
reality so there was this crazy period
00:29:04
of time in 2021 with the capital markets
00:29:06
opened up it was a dream scenario raise
00:29:09
a lot of money from the public markets
00:29:10
that was nuts so that allowed this to
00:29:12
happen and then from there it for for me
00:29:14
what we did was we said okay what is the
00:29:17
business case meaning we thought when we
00:29:19
looked at like what are these we call
00:29:20
them hero routes where there's a lot of
00:29:22
people doing these trips like Manhattan
00:29:24
to JFK it's like 30 million people go
00:29:27
from Manhattan to one of the three big
00:29:28
airports in New York okay so all we have
00:29:31
to do no brainer that's a no-brainer
00:29:32
yeah all we have to do is have a couple
00:29:35
around the city which already exist
00:29:36
there's downtown Wall Street Hort wests
00:29:38
side and just put them into the three
00:29:40
airports and that'll be an amazing thing
00:29:42
to start with okay so short routes 20 to
00:29:45
50 mile routes now let's design an
00:29:47
aircraft around that the fastest thing
00:29:49
we can do to get to Market so we don't
00:29:50
die before the investors decide nah
00:29:53
we're kind of like done with this one
00:29:54
now on to the next thing oh AI here
00:29:56
let's everybody go all in on AI and so
00:30:01
I'm just moving as fast as we can so
00:30:02
that was the biggest trade-off so it was
00:30:04
always what is the minimum thing we need
00:30:06
to do to get that done so you need to
00:30:08
look at speed range and payload payload
00:30:10
is definitely the hardest because
00:30:12
batteries are heavy and there's just
00:30:14
physics you're always fighting and then
00:30:16
speed the difference between these
00:30:17
planes want to fly around 120 mph you go
00:30:21
faster it's just more drag it just kills
00:30:23
your battery faster so you don't the
00:30:26
difference between 120 150 on a 10 Mile
00:30:28
flight doesn't really matter it's more
00:30:30
of how do you go at least that 20 to 50
00:30:33
mile route and go at least you know call
00:30:36
it 120 m per hour and do that as fast as
00:30:38
possible what kind of batteries what
00:30:39
kind of batteries did you guys choose
00:30:41
what lium ion cells commercial offthe
00:30:43
shelf stuff uh Molly cell makes you can
00:30:45
find the cells today there's millions of
00:30:47
them that are made and power tools and
00:30:50
supercars and pretty conventional what's
00:30:53
the range with the range of the aircraft
00:30:55
we're designing to go up to 100 miles
00:30:57
but the the real design is around back
00:30:59
to Rapid backtack 20 to 50 MP what do
00:31:02
you guys all need in terms of Battery
00:31:03
Technology improvement from where we sit
00:31:05
today or do you not and what's on the
00:31:08
horizon in terms of Battery Technology
00:31:09
improvements what does that unlock in
00:31:11
terms of range yeah so the batteries
00:31:12
that we're certifying our aircraft with
00:31:14
or have a specific energy of about 300
00:31:17
wat hours per kilogram to put that in
00:31:18
context when I started the company in in
00:31:21
2009 we had cells that had sufficient
00:31:24
specific power uh to do a vertical
00:31:27
takeoff but also so uh we're at about
00:31:29
170 W hours of kilogram so we've almost
00:31:31
doubled the specific energy in the cells
00:31:34
over the last 15 years um that we have
00:31:37
cells in our lab and then there's a
00:31:39
third dimension which really matters is
00:31:41
This Is The Life and uh so we have the
00:31:45
the cells we're uh taking the
00:31:47
certification are give us a uh 10,25 M
00:31:52
flights so our our kind of sweet spot is
00:31:55
is also in that uh in those shorter
00:31:58
range flights and we want to be able to
00:31:59
do a lot of flights between uh between
00:32:03
Replacements both for the environmental
00:32:05
impact of it but also from the economics
00:32:07
of replacing those battery packs and
00:32:09
when the the plane takes off that's a
00:32:12
lot of um energy usage the the wings
00:32:15
tilt forward and now you're flying more
00:32:17
like these ospre is as a plane the
00:32:19
energy goes way down the consumption and
00:32:22
then on Landing you got to be very
00:32:23
careful and use a lot more energy is
00:32:25
that correct yeah and there's there's uh
00:32:28
different trade-offs you can make
00:32:29
basically the more propulsors you have
00:32:31
uh the smaller each propulsor is and the
00:32:33
and the heavier you're disc loading and
00:32:35
the higher the amount of power you're
00:32:37
using in Hover the the harder you're
00:32:40
pulling on the batteries um the uh but
00:32:44
then more propulsors also gives you more
00:32:46
redundancy so there's this uh there's a
00:32:49
trade there breast tax when do you each
00:32:51
think we're going to pick um a quarter
00:32:54
in a year so you know fourth quarter
00:32:57
2025 second quarter 2026 you all have to
00:33:00
answer it uh you agreed backstage um and
00:33:04
Americans will be able to give money to
00:33:08
get in one of these not a test flight
00:33:11
you know in a major city in America um
00:33:14
to to when we all be able to use it uh
00:33:18
not just yours yeah these guys should
00:33:19
answer for themselves but I think
00:33:21
they'll get it done in uh in 2026 and
00:33:25
you should yell at it's different ah man
00:33:27
I don't um first quarter first quarter
00:33:30
26 I want to give him some heat we'll be
00:33:32
we'll be a couple years after that but
00:33:33
that's an incredible thing I mean
00:33:35
we're less you know a year plus away
00:33:38
that's yeah that's crazy now you should
00:33:40
um tell tell me how you feel about my
00:33:41
expectations
00:33:43
yeah I I think pretty clearly there's a
00:33:46
route to do this internationally next
00:33:48
year and so I think we'll launch with
00:33:50
passengers next year um he said in the
00:33:53
US I know I'll start there I'll start
00:33:55
there in in in 2025 job is to make sure
00:33:58
we have a safe I think probably fourth
00:34:00
quarter I think we have a my job is to
00:34:02
create a safe aircraft if Pete Budaj
00:34:05
called and said hey there's a way to do
00:34:07
this in the US I'm going to help cut
00:34:08
through all the red tape and we're going
00:34:10
to help you get it done like my phone's
00:34:11
on I'm ready call me I we'll find a way
00:34:14
to do it Pete why didn't we invite Pete
00:34:16
he seems Dynamic so he was actually yeah
00:34:18
we uh we nearly had him yeah very close
00:34:23
so I I think we're on a on a Time
00:34:27
timeline which we publicly announced to
00:34:30
uh to begin commercial Service uh in the
00:34:34
UAE next year um you think Q4 2025 as
00:34:38
well I I think that's it's likely back
00:34:40
end I think it's at the back end of next
00:34:42
year let me let
00:34:44
me we will begin non uh you know begin
00:34:49
operations before that but uh we will
00:34:51
not being to buy a buy a ticket have you
00:34:54
figured out the flight profile that
00:34:55
you're going to start with like it's
00:34:56
airport to X or something like that or
00:34:58
we have we have uh four ver ports that
00:35:00
are um uh that we're planning to build
00:35:03
in in Dubai and uh the RTA which is I
00:35:07
would like one from the airport to the
00:35:10
wind which opens in 2027 yeah from Dubai
00:35:13
to the new win it's a little far cuz
00:35:15
it's in rock so it's a little far away
00:35:17
there's a win in Dubai that's opening
00:35:19
opening a win that's we got to go we got
00:35:22
to
00:35:22
go oh kidding aside I want to talk to
00:35:26
you guys we talked yesterday with about
00:35:28
this you know he said it's taken longer
00:35:30
to get approval to launch Starship than
00:35:31
it did to take launch so this sort of
00:35:33
push on regulatory we're hearing over
00:35:35
and over again you work with the FAA
00:35:37
closely um can you just describe the
00:35:40
path to bring them along get the
00:35:43
certifications that you need um and how
00:35:46
much of a push or a pull that is in each
00:35:48
of your businesses yeah I mean I guess
00:35:49
I'll just start you know obviously um
00:35:51
from the autonomy standpoint
00:35:53
specifically you know we're really we're
00:35:55
trying to push the frontier and so
00:35:57
whenever whenever you're engaging with a
00:35:58
regulator no matter if it's Aviation or
00:36:00
if it's biotech or some other thing if
00:36:02
you're really really on the frontier it
00:36:04
means that that the regulator doesn't
00:36:07
necessarily understand the technology
00:36:09
any better than you do and so part of it
00:36:11
needs to be kind of a journey where
00:36:13
you're going together to really learn
00:36:15
how to make it safe at some point um you
00:36:18
need to be regulated you know there
00:36:19
there needs to be a process of you
00:36:21
putting forth um you know the engaging
00:36:23
in what what are the requirements you
00:36:25
putting forth here's how we're going to
00:36:26
meet those requirements and then as a
00:36:27
process I think that you know honestly
00:36:30
from my standpoint that actually works
00:36:33
okay um I just wish that it was a little
00:36:36
more responsive or engaging on some of
00:36:39
the like deep technical subjects that we
00:36:41
have to advance do they have the people
00:36:42
inside the that's part of the challenge
00:36:44
so part of the challenge is that is that
00:36:46
in aviation partially because of what
00:36:48
Peter teal said yesterday you know
00:36:50
there's sort of a generation of you know
00:36:51
if you went into Aviation when I went
00:36:53
into Aviation the demographics were
00:36:55
completely upside down people you know
00:36:57
people were retiring new people weren't
00:36:59
coming into the industry and so all many
00:37:01
of the experts in the fa that that have
00:37:03
regulated some of these systems that
00:37:05
have created really safe airplanes have
00:37:07
retired um there's a lot of new people
00:37:09
coming into the industry which is great
00:37:11
but um don't necessarily have the
00:37:13
expertise of having built some of the
00:37:14
systems that we're now building and so
00:37:16
there's some way that we almost need to
00:37:18
get people to come through the industry
00:37:20
and then I think this is a really
00:37:21
important point and it's countered to
00:37:24
what RFK Jr has been saying over and
00:37:26
over again and this is why I I push back
00:37:28
on him I'm sorry this is off topic there
00:37:31
there is a very important reason to have
00:37:33
people from industry become part of the
00:37:37
regulatory framework for regulating the
00:37:39
industry because if they don't they
00:37:41
don't know how and they're going to have
00:37:43
a a complete aversion to embracing
00:37:45
technological innovation that's why I
00:37:47
think it's important that there is a
00:37:48
rotation of people that are you know
00:37:51
consequentially not economically
00:37:52
motivated in some way but that
00:37:55
understand the technology and can
00:37:56
motivated but in that let me ask you
00:37:58
guys in markets where there is a
00:38:00
regulatory framework that allows for
00:38:02
Accelerated output of innovation let's
00:38:04
take China for an example um there's a
00:38:06
good ab test maybe underway right now
00:38:09
what companies are doing eval technology
00:38:11
in China how good are they and then
00:38:13
given the way that the Chinese
00:38:14
government can kind of step in and
00:38:16
accelerate outcomes are we going to see
00:38:18
and are we seeing uball and Technology
00:38:20
you know kind of coming to Market fast
00:38:22
and in a kind of accelerated way in
00:38:24
China like we're seeing with nuclear and
00:38:26
other tools that the government is a
00:38:27
priority in a mandate yeah I mean you
00:38:29
have you have ehang and autoflight and
00:38:31
they uhin and you know a bunch of them
00:38:33
are making great progress there's a lot
00:38:35
of enthusiasm in China the regulatory uh
00:38:38
pathway there is uh uh more forward
00:38:41
leaning I I think as as Adam pointed out
00:38:44
and uh I think you're going to see more
00:38:47
more rapid iter iteration I think the
00:38:49
good news here in the US is that the fa
00:38:51
is uh in the process of releasing
00:38:53
something called Mosaic which for
00:38:55
aircraft that are smaller than ours uh
00:38:58
aircraft with with like two passengers
00:39:00
in them more of a personal ownership
00:39:01
type of thing that's going to allow much
00:39:03
more uh rapid development and a lighter
00:39:06
a lighter touch from the fa just to put
00:39:09
this in context the fa has done I think
00:39:11
an incredible job and they've really
00:39:12
been leaning in when I went and first
00:39:14
talked to them in 2009 they they thought
00:39:17
this was like absolutely crazy like they
00:39:19
just did not think we were going to be
00:39:21
able to build an electric air aircraft
00:39:23
let alone one that could take off and
00:39:25
land vertically and which was quiet and
00:39:27
all these all these different dimensions
00:39:29
we then you know began working with them
00:39:31
regularly in 2015 uh began formal
00:39:33
certification 2018 had uh stage 4 G1 and
00:39:37
in 2020 G2 uh and and then G3 and now
00:39:42
we're working on stage four so it you
00:39:44
know with each uh you know we are
00:39:47
building momentum we are writing all the
00:39:49
rules uh it's very heavy lifting uh
00:39:54
and told me once he uh cuz has been kind
00:39:58
of the first through the through the
00:39:59
pipeline there and he said I feel like a
00:40:00
pipe cleaner for for how to certify
00:40:02
these things and uh I guess I there's
00:40:04
one thing I would just throw into the
00:40:05
regulatory like context just just
00:40:07
because I I think you're bringing up a
00:40:08
good point is it's not like these things
00:40:10
were sitting on the shelf and and a
00:40:12
regulator was sitting somewhere saying
00:40:14
you can't use that we have been on a
00:40:16
journey that we just all talked about
00:40:18
getting these things ready so they're
00:40:20
now just at the point where they're
00:40:22
ready and the question is can we take
00:40:25
that first step in the US to really get
00:40:27
it done and does the US do they approach
00:40:30
that from a culture of let's just try
00:40:33
something if we get it wrong we can
00:40:35
iterate it or it's is it more we must
00:40:38
get this right because there's all kinds
00:40:40
of consequences political or other it's
00:40:42
so much more simple than that they want
00:40:43
to do it the people at the top are
00:40:45
actually genuinely very excited former
00:40:48
fa administrator Billy Nolan stepped
00:40:50
down from his role joined Archer the new
00:40:52
one Mike Whitaker came from an e talk
00:40:55
company they were very excited to do it
00:40:57
the challeng is with probably most
00:40:59
regulatory you know setups is not a lot
00:41:02
of incentive it's not like there's a
00:41:03
downside to not doing it a lot of
00:41:05
disincentive to do it meaning if
00:41:06
something goes bad it's there's only
00:41:08
downside there and it's a slog and it's
00:41:10
hard like this is hard this is not easy
00:41:12
to go through all this there's the
00:41:14
incentives are not great and then on top
00:41:16
of all of it there's no policy saying
00:41:19
hey America needs to be Innovative we
00:41:21
need to go do this let's go and get it
00:41:22
why is there no mandate like it would be
00:41:24
great if some leader said
00:41:27
you guys need to get this done and we
00:41:30
need to have these things flying safely
00:41:31
in the next 36 months like how does that
00:41:35
happen in our current system I can
00:41:36
understand Happ Trump literally put out
00:41:38
a video on it he put out a video agenda
00:41:40
number whatever 39 or something like
00:41:42
that where he talked about building
00:41:43
future cities I'm guessing he went to
00:41:45
Dubai and then I'm sorry but is that
00:41:47
something Adam that we could change
00:41:49
through an executive order I think it's
00:41:51
culture you have to change meaning like
00:41:53
we will do this and break down all the
00:41:55
barriers to get it done because it's
00:41:57
it's not that hard like you can like
00:41:59
we've all laid out the rules to certify
00:42:01
like why can't you let us just go do the
00:42:02
tests and then if we do the tests you
00:42:04
check them off we're
00:42:05
good that if you're a bureaucrat if
00:42:08
you're working in one of these
00:42:09
organizations if it goes poorly you're
00:42:12
in big trouble if it goes well are you
00:42:15
well the SEC had you know this mandate
00:42:17
it's very similar to you know allow more
00:42:20
accredited investors sophisticated
00:42:21
investors allow people you know to to
00:42:23
take tests and to just allow more access
00:42:26
to private companies and invest which
00:42:27
would be good for a company and they and
00:42:29
they have slow walked it so I think
00:42:32
that's part of the problem is just to
00:42:34
build on what ad okay let's just say the
00:42:35
SEC doesn't do anything it or they do it
00:42:38
and they make a mistake nobody at the
00:42:39
SEC will get fired just like I I don't
00:42:42
think the culture is that if you know
00:42:44
something if a commercial airline has an
00:42:46
issue or for example in the 73 Max 737
00:42:49
Max issue did more people at Boeing get
00:42:51
fired did more people at the FAA get
00:42:53
fired or did nobody get fired nobody
00:42:55
Aviation Aviation is different on the
00:42:57
like in the comparison with the SEC as
00:42:59
an example like Aviation is different
00:43:00
like actually Aerospace is different and
00:43:02
and and I would just call out one thing
00:43:04
that I saw on the stage yesterday which
00:43:05
which really hit me if you saw elon's
00:43:07
face when he talked about the safety of
00:43:10
the astronaut like you saw his face he
00:43:12
was almost crying yes he was almost
00:43:13
crying and that's what Aerospace is all
00:43:16
about and so I there is a um the the
00:43:19
reason that the industry has been able
00:43:21
to get to that unbelievable statistic
00:43:23
that I just talked about is that it's
00:43:25
gone through all accidents it's gone
00:43:28
through terrible things that have
00:43:29
happened and have turned into the rules
00:43:31
that we are now all being regulated
00:43:33
towards what's happening now is that
00:43:35
we're showing up with new technology so
00:43:37
I'll give you an example like
00:43:38
regulations they currently say the pilot
00:43:40
shall do X and it says that you know 50
00:43:43
times Well we don't have a pilot and so
00:43:45
when we're showing up we have to kind of
00:43:46
rewrite what that is I understand why it
00:43:48
says the pilot shall do X it says that
00:43:50
because there were accidents in the past
00:43:52
that have now been regulated out of
00:43:53
existence but you're also looking at it
00:43:55
from the the negative point of view how
00:43:57
many lives could be saved if we got this
00:43:59
stuff into pick a country India or
00:44:02
Africa we could bring clean water and
00:44:03
medicine and supplies to people disaster
00:44:06
relief it doesn't cost $10,000 an hour
00:44:08
to fly a Blackhawk anymore into some
00:44:10
disaster relief situ situation costs
00:44:12
$500 an hour and we can send 50
00:44:14
immediately and they're always available
00:44:16
the uptime is super huge and so I
00:44:18
actually think you could save a lot of
00:44:19
lives too if you what about saving lives
00:44:22
here in the US we we lose 40,000 people
00:44:24
every year on the roads which is insane
00:44:26
uh and we fly almost as many miles as we
00:44:29
drive so like driving is more than
00:44:32
10,000 times more dangerous per
00:44:34
passenger mile than flying is so we can
00:44:37
actually by moving people into the air
00:44:39
for their daily Transportation make the
00:44:42
you know save thousands and tens of
00:44:44
thousands of lives but we need to get
00:44:46
the technology out there we need to
00:44:48
start learning I hope uh Peter teal had
00:44:50
it wrong and we are going to get flying
00:44:51
cars in the next couple of years and I
00:44:53
want to thank you all for being here
00:44:54
please join me in thaning our
00:44:57
than