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I I couldn't scream loud enough there's nothing I could do to make it go away or to make them stop I I didn't
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are UK talking about this um can we take a break Mia Khalifa Mia
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Khalifa Mia Khalifa Mia Khalifa I'm Sarah I'm Sarah [ __ ] Joe Sarah Joe
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the former adult film star now business owner and social media activist with over 50 million followers where should
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this story start I lived through a lot of conflict in Lebanon and then I moved
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to America and I was bullied for being Middle Eastern it was around the time of 9 11 that was pretty difficult made a
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lot of choices that I can't take back your husband when you're 18 years old is encouraging you towards the adult
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entertainment industry what did they stand to gain from that fetishization I [ __ ] up because I
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signed a contract that says in perpetuity on it do you know how dangerous and predatory that is when was
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your anxiety at its highest the company going after me publicly the major
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production companies tray on vulnerable young women
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shower I didn't brush my teeth and eat didn't leave my bed it's following me for the rest of my life but I am not the
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sum of the things I've been through or the adversities I've faced for people that are really struggling how did you
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get out of that phase foreign
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and no this is an emergency I've spent the last two years writing a book and
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I've written 33 laws for business marketing and life that I derive from all of these conversations I've had here
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I traveled the world to write this book I interviewed some of the most incredible people I did
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six months of extensive research on scientific studies and principles to
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cooperate everything that I wrote into these 33 laws and ladies and gentlemen that book called The Diary of a CEO the
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33 laws for business marketing and life is now available for pre-order
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and there are five thousand only five thousand signed copies
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and its first come first serve the link is in the bio right now so if you want that book honestly it's the best book
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I've ever written it's the book I always should have written it's the book I also wish someone had written for me when I was starting out in my career
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I'm really proud of it I'm really really proud of it really really proud of it and I can't wait for all of you to get
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to read it it's out in August I couldn't be more excited about this as you can probably tell I don't know what to say to say other than the words I've said to
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emphasize my excitement because I think it's important and I think it's really valuable um Link in the description
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[Music]
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where should where does Your Story start what is the most sort of pertinent moment that you recall from your memory
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that is shape the woman that has sat in front of me today it honestly feels like
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the last year or two that's that's where that's where my life started and where I should start because the woman that's in
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front of you right now has been a work in progress and is still a work in progress and I feel like I've been my
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like my most authentic and purest form of myself in the past year or two
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like the closer to today we get the more secure I feel and who I am and who that
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person is but obviously there was a lot of other things that happened to get me to this point but
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yeah to answer that question like a year or two let's start at the end then um which is today yeah why why
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the closer we are to today the more authentic you feel to yourself why I'm
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I'm going after the things I actually want and I'm growing into my confidence and the self-assurance that I've gained from
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from doing the things I love and accomplishing my goals has formed who I am and it feels really good and it feels
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very validating and it's just
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it's never clicked before and they always say like oh the confidence is the key to everything confidence will unlock
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everything for you and I never really understood that because it's like okay where the [ __ ] does the confidence come from how do you just simply get
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confident and um I have grown to realize that confidence comes from
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just accomplishing things that you want to accomplish and being proud of yourself and that Pride
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makes you feel confident like I I feel confident even when I mess up now whereas if I messed up
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five six ten years ago it would send me into a pit of Shame
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um a really unhealthy just downward spiral that would get me
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nowhere foreign did you ever imagine being here did you
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ever imagine being in the state you currently are today happiness confidence etc etc and I don't want to put words in
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your mouth there in terms of the word happiness but the place you are today in the res over the last 10 did you
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imagine you would get to this point or did this seem unimaginable it seemed unimaginable for a while but
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my mental health was also not as strong as it is today um there was there was a lot of periods
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in my life where I couldn't see past 48 Hours let alone 10 years it was very
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day-to-day for a while and I think that's why I'm so confident because
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right now if you ask me what I can see in 10 years I feel like I can answer that I know what I want I know what my
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goals are and what I want to accomplish so yeah even in interviews five years ago
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when they would ask me where do you see yourself in five years I would always say I have no [ __ ] clue I don't know
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where I see myself next week and what changed
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taking risks honestly um just taking a few risks here and there
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and seeing them play out for the better and learning from my mistakes and learning
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what I want and saying no to a lot of things to get to
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what I want like job opportunities and and things that didn't really align with what I thought I wanted in a year or two
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or five years or even 10 years as like my confidence started to grow and I started to actually see life plans for
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myself um taking taking risks and walking away from those risks either
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having them play out for the better or um learning from the mistakes and learning
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oh this didn't work this is what I need to do next time oh this didn't work I crossed my own
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I I crossed the boundary of mine and now I don't feel good now I know this is past where I should be pushing myself a
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lot of trial and error confidence confidence is a through line throughout your story
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um take me back to your earliest memories of lacking in confidence yeah
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and where because you know I came to this country from Botswana in Africa when I was a young young boy and I
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struggled I think we both struggled with um being accepted by the culture we had arrived in me and Plymouth only black
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kid curly hair trying to figure out why my hair's not straight relaxing it chemically all the time
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um why were there any black family in this all white school etc etc and then that battle with like the lack of
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enoughness not feeling like I was enough and what I did to try and make myself feel like I was enough but take me back
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to your story at the earliest moment where you struggled with um not feeling like you're enough or confident enough
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I mean it does it's not even coming to America it's being in Lebanon there was colorism there I was the darkest one in
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my family there was colorism at the school that I was at um I felt like a bit of an outsider
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because I was darker than what the beauty standard for a Lebanese girl is which is light light skin light lighter
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skin all of undertones dark hair green eyes like that's the epitome of a beautiful woman in Lebanon
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um and then I moved to America and that just got it went to the extreme side of that I
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was definitely one of the darkest kids I was bullied for being
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Middle Eastern it was around the time of 9 11 that was pretty difficult um especially since it was in Washington DC and Washington
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DC was heavily impacted by 9 11. UM the Pentagon was hit New York is not that
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far from us it's about four hours like so many people in my school either had family and parents that worked at the
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Pentagon it was a lot of bullying that then turned into
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internalized racism and all I wanted to do from then forward like you said you wanted to relax your hair you wanted to
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you you wanted to assimilate and fit in I also wanted the same thing and I just
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I held that in and it it turned into internalized racism
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how did that go through because I I often reflect and I'm I think it's taken me time to look back in hindsight and
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realize what I was feeling versus in the moment you're kind of just in a state of like defense it's like how do I get
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through today how do I get these people to like me versus you know and I look back and think no man you had so much shame like you were carrying around
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shame and insecurity um how did that go at that time so you how old are you at this point seven ten
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eleven um eight nine eight nine okay
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and how how were you aware of your feelings I guess is the question yeah yeah yeah very much so I think I think
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yeah I've always been an introvert and um very aware of of what I was going
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through and angsty and even like going into my teen years I've always been aware of the fact
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that I what I was feeling is shame or what I was feeling is
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um I'm not feeling like I'm enough I feel like yes I've always been aware of
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that feeling it there was also confusion with it but
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I think self-awareness has been prevalent the whole time what was your
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relationship like with yourself in those teen years I was very hard on myself um I was very
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angry at myself for not fitting in and for not being a certain way and
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um yeah just I did not like myself
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I didn't like the reflection in the mirror and me not liking the reflection in the
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mirror obviously affected my confidence my self-esteem everything so in turn I
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also didn't like the choices that I was making which made me not only hate the reflection but hate the person that I
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was with at the end of the day the choices you're making yeah um I think insecurity leads you to
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leads you to do things for validation that you otherwise wouldn't if you were securing yourself or if you respected
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yourself or if you loved yourself like relationship choices relationship
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choices um lifestyle choices anything anything
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what are some of those so in the context of relationships I'm doing this conversation with multiple people I've
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started to sort of piece dots together around if your self-esteem is lacking you might become a people pleaser yeah
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in your in your work so you might you know be exploited by your work and you might not get what you deserve in your
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job is there anything else that you've seen as a symptom or a consequence of having real low self-esteem that people
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might be able to relate to like for you so much it's such a broad
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spectrum because you can either turn into a people pleaser or you can turn into an insufferable a people pleaser on
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the surface level everyone loves it people pleaser they they want to please everybody but the downside of a people
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pleaser is they want to please everybody they
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have no boundaries with themselves or with other people they don't respect their own boundaries they don't respect
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others boundaries if they're people-pleasing person a and what person
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B wants goes against what person a wants they will find a way to please both of
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them so a people pleaser also turns into someone who lies someone who deceives
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someone who is a habitual boundary Crosser with themselves and with other people like it's there's there's a
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spectrum to it I would say it was definitely a people pleaser I also sought validation from
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from people who's looking back on it now whose opinion I probably shouldn't have respected back then let alone today
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um so that is that was a that was a downside
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um made a lot of choices that I that I can't take back porn being one of the biggest ones but I
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feel like that wasn't even the first one the first one was getting into a relationship that I never should have
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been in with someone who was
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extremely abusive extremely dangerous in the sense that
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looking back on it and and having the self-awareness and and being able to
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call it what it was is grooming it was it was
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it was just a relationship that I feel like a lot of girls get into when they're in their late teens
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what what does that happen what do you mean this really getting into a relationship when you're roughly 18
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years old wasn't it the relationship started when I was 16. okay and then went until I was about 20. and this
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person was significantly older than you yes yes the
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age difference was how to play in that Dynamic my low self-esteem had a play in that Dynamic
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um everything was just kind of like
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16. yeah this person's double your age no no no it was about a 10-year age difference
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okay and at 16 what were you when you looked forward to your future had you ask
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yourself that question about you know what happens in 10 years time no I
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wouldn't have known what happened in a week's time it was I mean I got I got talked into eloping to Las
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Vegas four days after my 18th birthday so if you ask me where I see myself in
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five years I don't I don't know I would have looked at you with doe eyes and said I don't know and then looked over again where do you see me in five years
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like I
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I didn't have a sense of self so I attached myself to
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someone who was more than happy to abuse that and someone who could see that and
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see someone easily manipulatable yeah but
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at the same time eager to please so
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yeah it was just the perfect storm Perfect Storm yeah you got married at 18. yeah
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even that is uncommon to say the least yeah
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um do not recommend it So when you say like this this you know this person clearly took advantage of
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several things that were present in you whether that was low self-esteem or um you know just general inexperience
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and naivety of being a young a young woman um
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which direction in life did they push you in towards did they push you towards becoming a a
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really good partner to them or do they put you push in a professional direction or was it did they pull you towards them themselves yeah it was there there was
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there was no encouragement there was no pushing towards anything it was an extremely unhealthy relationship and
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I I even feel weird calling it a relationship because the dynamic was not one of a relationship it was more one of
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someone who saw a toy to play with um they were
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the industry they were in is probably not the one that you're thinking of they were in the Army so it wasn't even it
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had nothing to do with the porn industry but it also had everything to do with it they were the
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ones who kind of
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put that whole world in front of me and encouraged it and they encouraged it oh
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very much so your husband yeah struggle to understand
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this how so your husband when you're 18 years old is encouraging you towards the adult
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entertainment industry it started off as just online
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but then eventually yeah when when I was asked to to
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I was given I was given a business card and told to think about it I went home I laughed it off and the consensus was you
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should do it I think it would be great that's what I mean okay so you'll um I read this story you were out out at
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lunch somewhere someone a guy walks up to you when you're how old 20 and gives you a business card and
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says if you ever want to consider getting into the entertainment industry here's my number you take that home I
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was wondering this when I read read about that part of your story um what happened post that business card
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you know because I think when she was married so you know I've got a partner my my girlfriend comes home and says a
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man's come up to me in the street and given me a card and made me an offer like that um
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my I'm gonna be honest my natural disposition would be to like [ __ ] plan the card yeah like well they were also unhealthy had
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mental health issues that I don't know if they've ever addressed
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but it's a sickness and they were not the right but what the
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whole point of this is when your relationship with yourself isn't right you are not going to find the right
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person you're not going to choose the right person you're not going to choose someone who wants the best for you or will bring the
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best out of you because you don't want that for yourself what were they getting out of it are you
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doing that you accepting the invitation from that business card what did they stand to gain from that fetishization really that was it
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so there wasn't a commercial element or anything like that for them do you forgive that person no I forgive myself yeah yeah do you
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think there's a need to forgive people in life um I think you need to forgive yourself for if someone has crossed your boundary
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you need to forgive yourself for letting that happen for giving them a position in your life to hurt you like that me
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telling you that wasn't to explain or shift blame it was to give context as to where I was mentally
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how would you from from that point onwards from 20 years onwards then for the next couple of years when you look
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back at the the mere um Sarah Sarah yeah
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yeah yeah but it also it's not I don't take offense to I did I did a while ago but I don't take offense to
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it or I don't feel like my name's actually Sarah it's either or you probably could Sarah I do yeah yeah okay
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um so that's Sarah through that period of your life characterized by low self-esteem people around her
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um capitalizing on that in various different ways you in your own words not knowing better at that time in your life
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um at that point in your life 20 21 22 you go and study right so you you study at University
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again with the aim of pursuing some kind of academic academic or professional Pursuit and what was that history
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history yeah didn't really see even then I didn't see like a like a
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future doing anything I just thought I really enjoy studying history felt like
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watching a movie like it I I'm enamored with like it it's my favorite subject it
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felt like the easiest thing um the second easiest thing is like psychology oh I love psychology yeah
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exactly they're the interesting ones they're the juicy they're the juicy Majors um
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I didn't see myself doing anything other than whatever I had going on the next week and then I guess the furthest I thought
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ahead was I guess I'll work in archives or work in a museum or something I didn't have a plan like oh I
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want to be a teacher or something I've heard you talk about weight loss and weight related issues attached to
00:21:24
the self-esteem conversation what role did your weight play in um all of this and the self-esteem and the confidence and Body Image issues and all that I
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think a pretty large one my weight now still fluctuates and the
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more that I've worked on myself in therapy the less that bothers me and my and affects my relationship with myself
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so even in the months where I feel like I do not look like myself I don't feel like
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myself I've let myself go a little bit it doesn't affect me the way it used to 10 years ago
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um I don't fall yeah I I don't let it get to me as much anymore but it did for a very long time
00:22:01
because it was um I weighed like 60 pounds more than this
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which is a lot that's a huge amount of weight to lose yeah I read that the ways
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that you lost that weight were slightly um troubling yeah I mean I wasn't eating
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well I wasn't exercising well I had unhealthy habits I was young
00:22:23
therapy you went to therapy that's helped you get to to where you are today yeah what role has therapy played in your life and when did you first start
00:22:29
going to therapy oh the biggest role 2016. yeah
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the biggest role I don't I mean I'm still in therapy I don't see myself ever
00:22:39
stopping really I cycle out therapists it's like yeah I love it I love I love feeling
00:22:46
like okay I'm ready I'm ready for a first start I'm ready for someone new I'm ready for a new perspective
00:22:52
um it's it's it's a way to keep me grounded every week I have to sit down and
00:22:58
analyze myself my my thoughts my past like I have to dig down and actually come face
00:23:06
to face with the decisions I've made the my ways of thinking my my relationship
00:23:13
with myself like there's accountability with therapy and I think that's the biggest impact I guess accountability
00:23:18
yeah what are they when you've dug down and sought to understand yourself
00:23:23
um what are some of the key takeaways you've taken from from therapy as it reads so when I think about that
00:23:29
question if I was beyond the receiving end of it one of the first things that comes to mind is actually my my ongoing
00:23:34
evolution of understanding why I was so avoidant in relationships like always running away from any woman even if I
00:23:40
pursued her and then she turned and said okay let's be boyfriend and girlfriend I would just bounce and I had sort of like toxic model of like what love was from
00:23:46
my parents but then also all the shame and insecurities like I think I'm ambitious no I'm being dragged by this
00:23:52
need to be enough right so those are kind of the two two Top Line ideas that I took away from my experience with sort
00:23:59
of introspection are there any like big picture ideas that you've taken away from therapy that were Epiphany moments
00:24:05
connected dots that's a loaded question because I I'm so grateful for all of the information
00:24:11
I've learned about myself like like the dots I've been able to connect like how
00:24:17
being triggered by something a friend of mine says is actually
00:24:23
related to the way that I felt like the way that I felt ostracized on the playground when no one wanted to play
00:24:28
with me and like one little thing even though they didn't mean it that way or or even
00:24:34
had any malicious intent behind it has then taken me back to that 12 year old girl who just feels so
00:24:42
alone and doesn't know what she did wrong and and just wants to people please and
00:24:47
I think the best part of therapy is within a split yeah have you seen that so raven no it's this show with Raven
00:24:54
Simone on the Disney Channel when we when we were growing up and she has these Visions she's a psychic and she
00:25:00
just like stares off into space and then she zooms out and then she zooms back in and no time has gone but she saw maybe a
00:25:07
30 minute Vision play out um but she comes back and it's been like a split second and that's how that's
00:25:13
what therapy feels like it takes me back and I analyze that moment and I understand that that moment is not this
00:25:21
moment and my friend cares about me and she's not actually trying to make me feel like no one wants
00:25:28
to play with me on the playground just because she said you can come if you want and not I want you to come you know
00:25:33
what I mean um I think that's that's the magic behind therapy it gives
00:25:39
you time traveling superpowers has it has it changed your perception of
00:25:44
the period of your life where you enter the adult entertainment industry has it has it changed your perception yeah yeah
00:25:50
absolutely I spent so much time wondering why did I do this this is not me I was in it for such a short amount
00:25:58
of time and the entire time I was doing it I was also asking myself every day why am I doing this what is wrong with
00:26:05
me what is wrong with me that's like the number one question and I know what was wrong with me I had low
00:26:11
self-esteem I had no boundaries with myself I didn't respect myself I didn't like myself so many things were wrong
00:26:17
with me and all of these things anyone can work on it's hot it is it is hard though it's
00:26:23
hard once you become self-aware there's no going back I think I cried more in the first two years of being in
00:26:31
therapy than I ever did going through anything I did in my in in my in my life
00:26:36
in my Adolescence in my early teens and anything this is why a lot of people don't go to
00:26:42
therapy it's hard it's hard that self-awareness is like I mean it's it's it no and especially once you
00:26:50
start realizing things about people in your life that you've kind of put rose-colored glasses on for all your
00:26:55
life to make up excuses or to kind of change the situation in your head so that you
00:27:01
don't actually have to face what the reality was or or the fact that wow this
00:27:06
is actually a really situation this person that I love who's supposed to support me who's supposed to be there for me was actually
00:27:13
not that great in Heinz not even in hindsight in in 2020 site in actual vision
00:27:22
and the um the shedding that takes place when you can you become setting that's a
00:27:27
great way yeah that's great that's exactly how it feels slowly letting these pieces go
00:27:33
um what's interesting is when I read about your your life post at the adult entertainment industry which was only a
00:27:38
couple of months anyway all in all um you sounded incredibly isolated so when
00:27:44
I think about the word shedding I think of all these people that you're letting go but in that period you sounded like you were alone I remember the story of
00:27:50
you going to Austin and meeting your friend on Twitter it's all those kinds of things um take me to that period then so you
00:27:56
you make the decision that that that career is not for you um what happens the next you know the
00:28:03
next day week month post that [ __ ] loneliness I was living in an efficiency in inefficiency
00:28:09
is not even a studio it's where this rug cuts off to that wall
00:28:14
that is wider than what it was but definitely the length my toilet my
00:28:21
bathroom sink was also my kitchen sink there was no stove there was a broken window that I had tape over and there
00:28:28
was only one window it was it was like it was it's a room I think they're popular in South Florida or like I I
00:28:34
don't think you have them here because I don't think they're legal to like sell as Living Spaces um very lonely extremely lonely but
00:28:43
at that point in my life loneliness was better than what I was doing before and
00:28:48
that I think was the start of the tiniest tiniest tiniest bit of
00:28:54
confidence that gave me the confidence to take the risk of moving to Austin and
00:29:00
starting a new life and I was so lonely I was so broke I was so lost I was so
00:29:05
confused but all I was completely 100 sure of was
00:29:10
I don't want to do porn I've never wanted to do porn I'm never gonna go back to that
00:29:15
and standing firm on my ground in my morals in my boundaries in just
00:29:23
everything that that was like the tiniest glimmer of confidence starting
00:29:28
to grow standing firm in my boundaries even if I didn't know that was a boundary I
00:29:33
couldn't pinpoint it I couldn't call it that I didn't know what it was I didn't have the verbiage or the knowledge or the self-awareness to
00:29:41
call it what it was but that was how it started I would not if I
00:29:48
if I hadn't moved to Austin I wouldn't have started therapy I wouldn't have that that was the domino effect of
00:29:55
in a positive way in my life it could have gone a completely other way and it does for so many people and I'm
00:30:01
so so so grateful that I was able to get out
00:30:08
that first domino falling which took you to Austin in that new Direction was there a catalyst was there something
00:30:14
that pushed that Domino because I noticed that in this in the sort of timeline of events you then at
00:30:20
the same time separate from your partner around a similar time and then you leave the adult entertainment industry is was
00:30:27
there a catalyst because those two things those two decisions are huge decisions and they feel correlated they feel like they're attached I had nothing
00:30:32
to lose and I think that I also knew I need to get the [ __ ] out of Miami I was in Miami at the time and it was where
00:30:39
everything happened and I just did not want to be there anymore it was it it felt daunting it felt like walls closing
00:30:45
in on me everywhere I went um was there like a catalyst day though something that happens that makes you go
00:30:51
fat I need to or was it just slow yeah it was it was I mean it was the day I met my best friend on Twitter I had I
00:30:56
didn't meet her that day on Twitter her and I had been following each other for a while she was posts memes I like them vice versa
00:31:04
um he her and I were talking about something oh she said I'm looking for a
00:31:10
roommate I'm asking around the office for a roommate and I said what if I moved to Austin I don't want to live in
00:31:15
Miami anymore and then I started looking up how do you move States like what does it take what does it require what paperwork
00:31:21
do I need for my dogs like all of that stuff and then within a month I was packed up and moved
00:31:26
and was that was there a catalyst for you deciding to leave the adult entertainment industry even though you were there for a couple of months was it
00:31:32
I think I think it was how overwhelming everything became so fast
00:31:38
uh okay like that that was the reality check it was like it was like a like they when they turned the lights on at
00:31:44
the club at four in the morning like whoa the floors are sticky and nothing looks the same this is not what I
00:31:51
signed up for it's not what I expected I [ __ ] up that's not a typical experience for an
00:31:58
actress in that industry no no it is a very atypical experience because you went from obscurity to
00:32:06
to number one in an industry in in weeks yeah so you you got hit by a [ __ ] truck
00:32:13
yeah okay that makes sense okay
00:32:18
you become a paralegal yeah for a very short period of time like six months
00:32:23
tell me all about that nothing really much to say it was for an insurance defense firm it was pretty boring and it
00:32:29
was very much like like corporate the insurance company that they represented was
00:32:35
it was Geico so it was like a very boring thing and it was it was just paper pushing um it was
00:32:40
really weird to work there especially since that was my first job where I did it I I did the application and I
00:32:48
went into it thinking this is the shift this is this is me putting Mia Khalifa
00:32:53
behind me and this is me like trying to be a real human um did not work everyone in the office
00:33:00
recognized me it was a very uncomfortable work environment not because not because anyone was
00:33:06
overtly inappropriate it was just simply being in an office knowing anyone
00:33:13
who walked through did Double Take and is like are you so that was uncomfortable
00:33:19
um and then after that I worked at a construction company just doing bookkeeping and office work and
00:33:25
same thing I would have to go on a job site and the owner of the company just
00:33:31
made it so I like I I can't go on job sites it was a distraction it was not a good idea it
00:33:38
was people would be that in that situation people would be inappropriate sometimes but
00:33:44
yeah I I started to feel like a burden in the office is where I was and I hated that feeling and I was actually sitting
00:33:51
at that construction job in the office when I was talking to Rachel and the DMs
00:33:57
like I'm gonna move to Austin let's do it anxiety yeah
00:34:03
has that been a big part of your life for much of your life yes very much so and I think that has been prevalent from
00:34:08
the very beginning the very beginning is in since you were a kid or a teenager or yeah probably
00:34:13
even in utero I mean my parents grew up in the Civil War in Lebanon and I lived
00:34:18
through a lot of conflict in Lebanon whether it be civil or the surrounding countries or
00:34:26
whatever but we left for a reason and it's because it was dangerous so I think I've always had that
00:34:32
like I jump when I hear a noise I jump when someone who's been in the room for four hours with me speaks even though
00:34:39
they haven't because they haven't spoken in 10 minutes like I get scared like I I'm a jumpy person
00:34:45
probably because of that when was your anxiety at its highest
00:34:51
2019-2020 okay so that's post Austin oh yeah yeah it
00:34:58
was when it was post everything but it was in the midst of uh the porn company
00:35:05
going after me publicly and re-re releasing things and digging up
00:35:12
footage that was corrupted in in 2012 20 in 2013 whenever it was shot and
00:35:18
releasing it like it was new and that coming back into the new cycle and them just being
00:35:25
extremely abusive and exerting improving that they still have control
00:35:31
over me because I signed a contract that says in perpetuity on it
00:35:38
your life had had started to move oh yeah I was married again I'm married
00:35:44
again 2019. you're where are you living at this point I was living in L.A
00:35:49
um yeah I was living in La I was doing my own thing I
00:35:54
was starting to figure out what it was I wanted to do
00:36:01
and and where I want like things were really good that year it was it was the year I had that little cameo in that
00:36:07
incredible show Rami um that was that was really that was a huge moment for me and I'm so grateful
00:36:14
for that moment and I'm so upset that that moment was kind of overshadowed by all of the negativity that came from
00:36:22
um the the porn company in the subsequent months the porn company
00:36:28
um coming after you and attacking you not something you would expect from a company a billion dollar company at that yeah it
00:36:36
goes to show you how Petty and personal it is um because the people who are behind it
00:36:42
aren't aren't exactly the CEOs it's it's the board pseudo producers who
00:36:51
who don't like that I'm out here talking about
00:36:56
my experience it it's very much individuals not the
00:37:02
company but these individuals do have the power to speak on the company's
00:37:08
behalf what are they threatened by I think they're threatened by like you said earlier
00:37:16
most people in my position aren't in my position because they
00:37:22
this is the outcome that the girls want who enter the industry most of them who entered the commercial porn industry
00:37:29
um or the mainstream porn industry they they want the fame they want the infamy they want they want all of that
00:37:36
um and I think for the first time these individuals are experiencing someone who
00:37:42
is fully aware of what was happening and is fully aware of what is and isn't ethical and has the platform and the
00:37:50
resources to speak on all of those things what is your opinion of the industry no
00:37:57
I have a very unfavorable opinion on it but I do think
00:38:04
that there are ethical and unethical ways that you can support sex workers and consume porn as
00:38:11
as someone who is a Creator or as someone who is simply a consumer there
00:38:17
are ethical ways to do it granted any company has its downsides like even only fans
00:38:23
has trouble policing and and regulating the people who are on their site and the
00:38:33
every company has its downsides but I would say that the major production porn companies are all predatory and abusive
00:38:40
and unethical and prey on vulnerable young women
00:38:46
and even me saying this I already know that some of the responses back are going to be from women in the industry
00:38:52
that say no it's not no it's not it's great it's
00:38:58
fantastic everyone is so nice I love this company I love working with I love all of this and
00:39:03
to be honest with you I think that that rhetoric is grooming I think that if you're going to enter the industry and
00:39:09
you're going to be an advocate for it it has to it has to come with a caveat and that caveat needs to be
00:39:14
you shouldn't enter the industry unless you've already kind of been in the industry it shouldn't be a first option
00:39:20
for you like that shouldn't be something that you simply go into because you like it
00:39:27
think about it more wait on it more the age to go into the industry should
00:39:33
not be 18. you're putting contracts in front of 18 year old girls that have the words in
00:39:39
perpetuity on them do you know how dangerous and predatory that is
00:39:45
these are three four five page contracts Jesus Christ I mean any contract when you're 18 years
00:39:52
old although it's like list reading the legal verb it's it's jargon it's literally another language
00:39:58
I was thinking about Miranda rights we don't really have like Miranda right we have our own version of it here but what
00:40:04
do you do think I'll save the queen I thought I don't forget I've never been arrested I'll let you know but you get read your Miranda I watch
00:40:10
all of these like a US crime interrogation videos it's like how I fall asleep don't don't worry about it wow but I see them anxiety
00:40:19
Miranda rights before they get interrogated and then they get offered a lawyer yeah
00:40:25
seems like maybe from what you're saying that's not a bad idea if there was some kind of like implications clearly stated
00:40:33
to people that are considering entering the porn industry at a young age and the opportunity to have a lawyer or at least
00:40:39
legal representation to impartially explain as a as a third party the potential
00:40:45
um implications For Better or For Worse you know I don't think that's ever going to be possible unless the laws change
00:40:52
around what around around the the rights that they have it's just those two words in
00:40:57
perpetuity it's in perpetuity what vicious words yeah not not forever not
00:41:04
not on in your lifetime Not In Our Lifetime on in in perpetuity of all
00:41:09
lifetimes in all existence who needs that much control over a young woman's body
00:41:15
they still own the website with your name with your yeah there's nothing you can do to have that
00:41:20
website taken down I mean
00:41:25
there is but it's a very expensive lawsuit against a
00:41:32
billion dollar Corporation it's a conglomerate they also own that it Bang Bros isn't the only company
00:41:38
under that umbrella it's it's a very it's very wide reach
00:41:44
the peak of your anxiety 2019-2020 if I was a fly on the wall inside your
00:41:49
your apartment wherever you're living back then what would I have seen what would I observed
00:41:55
didn't shower I didn't brush my teeth and eat didn't leave my bed was crying all the time anytime I would open my
00:42:02
phone I felt I felt like I felt like a prisoner in my own body and in the world more so not just in my
00:42:09
own body because I I didn't I I couldn't scream loud
00:42:16
enough there's nothing I could do to make it go away or to make them stop I honestly
00:42:22
the worst part about it was I knew that if I if I went on and actually spoke about how
00:42:29
how much it impacted me that's that's what they would want
00:42:35
that that's that's exactly what they would want they were very annoyed that I started naming them by name and that's when
00:42:41
everything started these individuals value their privacy more than anything
00:42:47
in the world and it's because of all the unethical and immoral things
00:42:54
that they've done throughout their careers in this industry so they all go by aliases too being
00:43:02
called out by their legal government names was not something they took kindly to and
00:43:08
that is why they chose to release the video that the footage was
00:43:15
corrupted of 10 years ago that's that was a pornographic video yeah okay so they started releasing more
00:43:20
videos because she was speaking out against them and they started doing a variety of other attacks making like mini Instagram
00:43:27
documentary yeah clips of you which I thought I find I mean you'd expect like a jealous bitter X to be doing something
00:43:34
like that that's exactly what they are you know not a corporation that's exactly what they are a jealous bitter EX
00:43:41
act I look I look at all the decisions I've made in my life and I think about you know being 18 and deciding to do this or that or 25 and doing this and
00:43:47
[ __ ] up at that and you people look back and they say there's always a silver lining
00:43:53
is there a silver lining yeah I'm really funny trauma makes you funny
00:44:02
builds character no of course there's a silver lining I'm sitting in front of you today happier
00:44:07
than I've ever been I've I am not the sum of the things I've been
00:44:12
through or the adversities I've faced I'm not the Silver Lining is
00:44:18
[ __ ] happened it's over with it's not over with actually it's following me for the rest of my life but
00:44:24
I am no longer in the mental space that I was back then so it's over with for me
00:44:30
and you get to make your silver lining yeah and that's that's what I feel like you've done is you've made a silver
00:44:36
lining because there's clearly you could have gone several ways yes that's true
00:44:42
what are the ways you could have gone I was acting on Instinct there wasn't a
00:44:47
time when I sat down and thought what do I want with my life I I needed a job so I acted on Instinct I applied to things
00:44:54
that I felt like I could do I'm good at paperwork I'm good at I'm good at um just
00:44:59
the administrative things I like I like being left alone so I didn't want a job where I was working with like I I was
00:45:05
always acting on Instinct there was never really a plan what felt right it felt right in the moment to get an
00:45:10
office job it felt right in the moment to leave that one and go to another one it felt right in the moment to leave everything and move to Austin it felt
00:45:17
right in the moment in Austin to well actually I had a very that was the first time in
00:45:22
my life where I started forming a core group of friends and people who were still in my life to this day
00:45:29
um and they were the ones who convinced me not convinced me but kind of encouraged me to go to therapy
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try it love it number one protein powder depression another word different to anxiety in
00:47:36
many respects people often characterize it with like thoughts of the past and they think of anxiety as worries of the
00:47:42
future um depression is another word that I read a few times throughout your story
00:47:48
um again is that something that's kind of been with you throughout life or is that was that
00:47:53
post moving to Miami it was really that 2019-2020 oh really yeah yeah
00:47:59
um I went on Lexapro I went like I that was when
00:48:04
I mean maybe I was depressed but it was never diagnosed I had two therapy sessions a week and a
00:48:13
psychiatrist and I was on Lexapro I was on Propranolol I was on
00:48:19
beta blockers everything for anxiety depression all of that all of that was in was in
00:48:24
2019 2020 the when when everything started to kind of get rehashed and I felt like
00:48:32
um being I'm very very grateful to be out
00:48:37
of the depths of my depression but um something that does keep me up at
00:48:43
night anxiety wise is where things are headed with Ai and
00:48:49
um deep fakes and things like that because that feeling of
00:48:55
of being violated all over again and having no control like it's like trying
00:49:00
to run in a dream as hard as you as you try it's it's impossible and it's a very
00:49:05
daunting feeling and you feel claustrophobic and you feel like you're trying to breathe underwater and all
00:49:11
these really really awful things that that are out of your control that's what
00:49:16
that's what that feels like and I try not to think about it for too long but the AI still feels like that and the
00:49:22
Deep fake stuff yeah okay it's [ __ ] terrifying yeah
00:49:28
were people worried about you 2019 did you have people around you that were worried about you at that point I did I
00:49:33
did I'm very grateful I did because I'm trying to think of this this step people take when they go and have therapy or
00:49:39
they go to the doctor and say listen something's wrong with me you're at home this stuff's happening online this porn
00:49:45
company are targeting you what is this what is the what was the Catalyst in that moment to make you go do you know I
00:49:50
need to go get help oh I was still in therapy yeah and my therapist said you need a psychiatrist really yeah he said
00:49:57
I I'm like you need a psychiatrist I can't prescribe you antidepressants
00:50:02
you you need you need a psychiatrist here's some recommendations
00:50:07
again so what's life like I joined a TV show so uh things change for me you know
00:50:14
people start stopping you in the street and coming up during the gym and stuff and you know I love you know it comes
00:50:20
with the territory of what I did I was well aware of what I was getting into also I joined the TV show when I was like 28 29 so you kind of like you're
00:50:26
probably a bit more prepared mentally for things and you understand the world a bit better and you're not trying to impress people as much as I was when I
00:50:32
was younger but it was still an adjustment to say the least um what was life like for you that
00:50:38
post-miami period you're now moving on with your life you're trying to you know this porn company come for you what is a life like day to day and when you go to
00:50:45
the coffee shop I'm kind of glad you asked that because it's a huge contrast to what it is now
00:50:51
even though it's kind of still the same I would get recognized and I would get come up to and I would get asked to like
00:50:59
take a photo with someone all the time but my reaction to it is completely different than it is now I
00:51:06
would want to crawl into a hole and hide away and be ashamed I was I was so
00:51:14
embarrassed I felt like a like a warm feeling in my stomach like I
00:51:20
had just been punched or like I just found out I was being cheated on or
00:51:25
something like it's just a very painful visceral reaction to be recognized and to know what you're
00:51:31
being recognized for um and it wasn't until I started to accomplish other things and
00:51:37
I started to be proud of things that I've that I've done and things that I've kind of
00:51:42
shifted and diverted into in my career so those first few months to a year in
00:51:49
Austin I felt very I had a lot of social anxiety and I didn't go out much
00:51:54
um because I didn't want to be recognized um I felt like I I just didn't want to be recognized I
00:52:00
didn't want to be looked at I didn't want to be perceived I didn't I didn't want to leave my house none of that but is that a form of like
00:52:07
self-hatred because you're like no because no because it was more so the people who were coming up to me college
00:52:13
guys like like men you know it it it just made me uncomfortable because I knew why they knew me and it wasn't
00:52:20
until I started accomplishing things that I was actually proud of that that
00:52:25
changed I didn't feel that same like gut-wrenching visceral feeling of Shame
00:52:31
when I would hear the name Mia or or get called in the street or anything like that like I the more I accomplished the
00:52:39
more proud I was of what I've built and what I've changed and and all of these things that I've done the more
00:52:45
comfortable I got with being recognized because inherently people were recognizing me for other things women
00:52:50
started to recognize me everything kind of shifted the more that I do and continue to do the more
00:53:00
the more the more that changes like I I rarely get come like I get come up to
00:53:06
More by by women now than by men and I love that
00:53:12
what was that path out of the there's a book I from a psychiatrist had on this podcast called The Path out of the jungle for you what was the let's pass
00:53:19
through the jungle sorry but what was the path out of the Jungle few that 2019 depression period like how did you for
00:53:25
people that might be in that situation right now where they're really struggling what was was it just time was it Community Support was it the
00:53:32
medication how did you get out of that phase everything all of that combined all of that combined truly I don't think
00:53:38
I could have done it without shout out to Lexapro without the Lexapro without my support system without
00:53:45
without my job without people in my job encouraging me to to
00:53:52
pursue what I want to do and and to and to not let fear of
00:53:59
of having something taken away from me or or having something you had that fear
00:54:04
of having it taken away from you yeah of course of course they're constantly threatening me even using the name Mia
00:54:09
Khalifa and threatening you using the name Mia Khalifa they think they have ownership of it
00:54:16
okay which they do not it's my dog's name and they tried to convince me not
00:54:22
to use Khalifa because they said No One's Gonna know how to spell it but yeah I I I'm constantly in fear of
00:54:28
they're a billion dollar Corporation yes yeah the amount of lawsuits that they field on a daily basis
00:54:35
they're being sued right now by um by a company that does MLB trading cards because they're trying to do trading
00:54:42
cards of of actresses you you married around that time right
00:54:48
2019 yeah a lot of what I read said that that marriage had fallen apart because the attention you were getting was
00:54:54
difficult for your partner I don't know about that he's also famous no no well he's a very popular
00:55:02
Chef okay um but no that that was more of
00:55:08
irreconcilable differences now I'm just kidding um it was it was a lot we we were in therapy for a year okay an
00:55:15
entire year we tried I was we were separated for three months I lived in an Airbnb I
00:55:20
moved out of the house like we we tried it was more so it just very much came down to We Got
00:55:28
Married very too early we got married too soon before we actually knew each other we got married in the honeymoon phase and
00:55:34
um we were just very different Tick Tock you've become a tick tock
00:55:40
sensation I don't like to spend too much time on Tick Tock because you know I I'll end up
00:55:45
not doing anything with my life I spend too long on that because it's really addictive but I went through your tick tocks you're a comedian oh my God trauma
00:55:53
no but you know but you are you're incredibly successful until I think that Tick Tock is my favorite app and I think
00:55:59
that I'm very lucky that Tech talk is just it's what it's where I spend the most time I I kind of just get it I get
00:56:06
it it was very easy for me I love Tick Tock so future Personality yeah
00:56:11
you've cultivated a group of people there a huge group of people almost like 30 million people something crazy
00:56:16
um who love that side of Sarah yeah the women on on on my Tick Tock are amazing
00:56:23
I'm very very grateful for the community of women that I found on there
00:56:28
a second ago you said about 10 years time plans for 10 years time you said now you have an answer
00:56:37
the answer is two-car garage
00:56:43
decent backyard um three
00:56:49
very successful still operating companies that I'm very heavily involved in still I don't plan
00:56:55
on retiring anytime soon and hopefully a kid on the way oh
00:57:01
in order to have a kid now there's a couple of routes to having a kid that's not true
00:57:07
in order to have a kid you can adopt one you can steal one or you can have your own
00:57:12
um all you know all of these past I mean I'm sure there might be a fourth path that I'm not yeah I wouldn't mind stealing a four-year-old someone who's
00:57:19
already like into cartoons and stuff so maybe that's the route I go by I go for are you are you in a relationship now no
00:57:25
you know you're single yes how are you finding that I talk a lot about my guess about relationships and how dating in
00:57:31
the modern world is really really tough it is tough it sucks especially for a certain generation I think got caught between like the digital world and like
00:57:38
the analog world yeah do you find it tough obviously people know who you are you're you're famous you're super famous
00:57:43
you've got like 60 million followers plus um do you find it tough to date very
00:57:48
very but I'm also not trying I've been a Serial monogamous for a while I got out
00:57:54
of a long-term long-ish term relationship a few months ago
00:57:59
um but yeah it's difficult it's difficult but I also
00:58:06
haven't tried but I'm I I don't I don't know what I'm expecting I haven't gone into the dating World in
00:58:12
maybe six years I've been in long-term relationships what do you what would make a great partner for Sarah
00:58:20
what would they have to have what would be the jigsaw shape emotional intelligence and a good relationship
00:58:25
with their therapist and with therapy in general um someone who's constantly working on
00:58:30
themselves and is self-aware and understands the Ebbs and flows of
00:58:36
life and emotions and how it's not always going to be even Keel how it'll
00:58:42
oscillate but also it doesn't necessarily mean go from good to toxic it means go from good to needing a
00:58:49
little more support then then you normally have men are not necessarily the best at
00:58:55
emotional intelligence but I think I'm not ruling out women yeah good good and business
00:59:01
three businesses the business the jewelry brand can you tell me all about your jewelry brand and
00:59:06
um the inspiration for that and your vision for that um I'm really really excited to launch it it's called shaitan it's
00:59:13
the inspiration is every woman who I've ever admired every
00:59:22
Arab girl who chooses yellow gold over white gold every
00:59:27
just women in general huge inspiration behind
00:59:33
it um it's body jewelry for the most part but it's also lifestyle um
00:59:39
it will launch imminently and yeah
00:59:44
why did you choose jewelry because I love it I was I was custom making the things that I wanted that I
00:59:51
couldn't find easily um hand lariats and foot lariats and belly
00:59:56
chains and bra chains and start like all all of this stuff was extremely hard to find so I was custom making it and
01:00:02
paying a lot for it so very excited to put out something that
01:00:07
is extremely delicate and Precious and Beautiful but also affordable
01:00:16
you know when you think about like the ingredient ingredients list of your own happiness right now in your life what is
01:00:22
on that list of ingredients what are the like factors that need to be present for you to feel like stable and
01:00:27
um full hmm I would say
01:00:36
70 percent alone time interesting 20 percent time surrounded by people who energize
01:00:43
and recharge me and ten percent
01:00:50
just 10 [ __ ] it ten percent just if something feels
01:00:56
right do it Follow Your Instinct but like I'm kind of scared of my instinct a little too sometimes even though
01:01:03
yeah ten percent just listen to your gut and going back to the start of the conversation this is because you feel
01:01:09
closest to knowing who who you are yeah yeah the most secure and
01:01:15
the decisions I make on a daily basis and who are you I'm Sarah
01:01:21
I'm Sarah [ __ ] Joe he's Senator Joe Sarah is Unapologetic
01:01:28
and not Fearless pretty fearful but I think that's a good thing cautious cautious
01:01:34
and secure okay so Unapologetic and then the
01:01:40
second one was not Fearless pretty fearful yeah but in a good way cautious cautious cautious
01:01:45
okay the Unapologetic part I get that I sense that from you
01:01:53
where did that come from Rihanna no really that came from oh absolutely
01:02:00
yeah yeah she has a whole album called Unapologetic and that that is what I base my
01:02:07
my personality off of why what do you mean why why did you
01:02:12
choose debate there's so many different albums Rihanna's made or oh that's that's that's the one that just exude that's the one that kind of that was her
01:02:18
that was her shift also that was her moment of now I know who I am and I'm Unapologetic
01:02:24
about it it might not be the bubble gum pop girl you thought I was or wanted me
01:02:29
to be this is who I am and this is the person who's not going anywhere
01:02:34
is that a stark contrast from the Sarah I would have met had I met you like 18. like I wanna if I like put that 18 year
01:02:41
old Sarah there and I had them both side by side I'm guessing Sarah 18 wouldn't be on
01:02:47
Unapologetic no well can you describe how her her vibe would have been sat here today
01:02:53
shriveled and secure quiet probably or too loud just because insecurity screams
01:03:01
not not someone well actually no that is someone who I would want to be around because I feel empathy for her
01:03:07
and I forgive her and the journey to Unapologetic was from what I've gone in so far based on
01:03:13
the evidence you got from going out and doing things and proving [ __ ] to yourself yeah that's so important I was
01:03:18
going to say this at the start of the conversation this idea of confidence people don't know how you said it like how the [ __ ] did you get confidence like where does it come from how do I buy one
01:03:24
but from your own experiences it's the evidence you gain from doing [ __ ] that
01:03:29
changes your beliefs exactly it's all evidence yeah you have evidence for like low confidence is negative evidence yeah
01:03:36
and the confidence you've built over the last couple of years is from doing really cool [ __ ] yeah exactly
01:03:44
we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest okay and they leave it written in this diary oh
01:03:50
Aristotle said give me the child at seven and I'll show you
01:03:57
the man or one is it true that the first seven years of
01:04:03
your life make you who you are I think they have a huge impact just
01:04:09
psychology speaking it's like but psychologically I think those are very formative years
01:04:15
yeah seven years old you could have um whispered some words into Sarah's ear
01:04:21
what would those words have been you're amazing you're enough you're perfect
01:04:26
thank you so much ma'am thank you Sarah yeah that's okay learning about your story and really like the reaction to
01:04:33
the mistakes you made when you were younger is um incredibly inspiring for me because we all make we will make
01:04:39
decisions especially in our young years that you know through naive it's your other or coercion or whatever it might be we're not necessarily you know we
01:04:47
wouldn't make those decisions again and the way you've responded to that and built the life that you're building now off the back of that and the audience
01:04:54
you've built around tick tock and social media um around your personality and your humor is incredibly
01:05:01
hope inspiring it gives me a lot of hope that regardless of you know the the
01:05:06
steps I make in my life there will be um there's a way through there's a way through the jungle and that's what your
01:05:12
story represents to me it's an incredibly inspiring one and you're um yeah you're an inspiration for that
01:05:17
very reason so thank you thank you I appreciate that [Music]
01:05:23
as you might know this podcast is now sponsored by the incredible Airbnb and Airbnb have saved me many many times
01:05:30
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01:06:26
oh [Music]
01:06:38
you got to the end of this podcast whenever someone gets to the end of this podcast I feel like I owe them a greater debt of gratitude because that means you
01:06:44
listen to the whole thing and hopefully that suggests that you enjoyed it if you are at the end and you enjoyed this
01:06:49
podcast could you do me a little bit of a favor and hit that subscribe button that's one of the clearest indicators we
01:06:55
have that this episode was a good episode and we look at that on all of the episodes to see which episodes generated the most subscribers
01:07:01
thank you so much and I'll see you again next time
