00:00:00
this is super scary 50% of men who kill themselves have no history or evidence of mental illness what causes people to
00:00:06
kill themselves is they try to connect with others and they get rejected you know it's it's I I can feel the hurt I
00:00:13
can feel the
00:00:19
loss Dr Alo kenoia he's a psychiatrist Harvard medical school instructor real
00:00:25
life monk who uses his own addictive past to help millions of people improve their own mental Heth everyone is
00:00:31
getting screwed but there's a crisis with people telling us that being a man means that you're that you're toxic that
00:00:37
there's patriarchy that your testosterone level makes you violent so men are struggling right now and the
00:00:42
rest of the world says no you're not you're privileged and these people have been literally killing themselves
00:00:48
because no one has been listening to them except there is one group of people who says your life your life sucks and
00:00:54
that's these toxic masculine people and these guys say I will show you a way to make it better and that's when things go back and this by the way is how people
00:01:00
wind up with addiction because when you look at addiction what happens is we use a substance or a technology as an
00:01:06
antidote to pain so I've worked with people who have pornography addiction for example that will have work on one
00:01:11
screen and they will literally have pornography on the second screen you're joking no very common and this is where
00:01:17
there's a big problem in the world today now you've got this young generation of women as well that are exploding in their suicidality loneliness seems to be
00:01:23
getting worse and worse what is the remedy to this so this is something that's very important to understand everyone who is listening to this
00:01:30
podcast needs to it's absolutely crazy to me that so
00:01:35
many of you have decided to watch our show um and so many of you have decided to subscribe to our show we now have five million subscribers on YouTube
00:01:42
which is a number that I just can't comprehend and it's a dream that I absolutely never could have had we
00:01:47
started the dire of a CO just over three years ago now and in my wildest expectations we might have had 100,000
00:01:53
subscribers by now so you can imagine how shocked I am that so many of you have chosen to tune into the these
00:02:00
conversations every week um and spend some time with us so thank you and I made a deal with you I made a deal that
00:02:06
if you subscribe to this show that we would continue to raise the bar and in 2024 we're going to raise the bar like
00:02:13
never before I've been working for the last 9 months on a surprise for all of you that have subscribed to the show and
00:02:19
I'm very excited to deliver that for you the production's going to change we're going to go even further with our guests
00:02:25
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00:02:31
simple free favor I'll ask from you is to hit the Subscribe button let's get on with the
00:02:36
[Music]
00:02:42
episode Dr K Stephen with all of your work and all of the content you've
00:02:49
produced if someone's just clicked on this podcast now what do you think they're going to
00:02:55
get out of this conversation what do you think they're going to walk away with uh I hope what they'll walk away with is
00:03:01
the realization that you are the instrument of your life and
00:03:07
understanding that fundamental instrument that you use to live your life your body your mind will ultimately
00:03:13
help you accomplish whatever you want and what is the opposite mindset to that
00:03:18
to understanding that you're the instrument of your life what is the typical mindset that people have that go through their lives think without the
00:03:24
realization that they are the instrument of their life I think it's assuming that something outside of them will fix
00:03:30
things inside of them right so people will think like okay if I get a promotion then I'll be happy if I date
00:03:36
this person then I will be happy if I have this amount of money I will be happy everyone assumes that exter things
00:03:43
outside of you will fix things inside of you why is this subject close to home
00:03:50
for you uh because I used to believe that so I I struggled a lot I mean I'm I'm by
00:03:58
all definitions of the word an absolute failure um I failed out of college uh
00:04:05
was finished school at the age of 35 or 36 you know it took me a long time to
00:04:11
kind of get on my feet and figure out what I was doing in my life and I realized that like the reason that I was
00:04:16
screwing up so much is because I I always thought that accomplishing something outside of me or achieving
00:04:22
some kind of goal would make me happy and I didn't understand that all of my
00:04:28
problems came from me I also BL bled all kinds of things outside of me so I would blame circumstances I would blame my
00:04:34
professor is biased this girl is you know she she doesn't see the the
00:04:41
goodness that I have in me she can't recognize how awesome I am so I kept on blaming things outside of me instead of
00:04:48
accepting responsibility take me from that point onwards so what happened that that brings you to sit
00:04:54
here today as an accomplished individual as a doctor and so on so I I think my
00:05:00
journey starts with failure so I I think we think about failure as a negative thing but I think that that's what
00:05:05
actually got me started on my journey after failing out of college I went to India and I stayed in a monastery or
00:05:13
asham for about 3 months and it completely changed the way that I looked at the world so what I sort of realized
00:05:20
is that kind of like what I was saying is that see I had assumed that things
00:05:26
outside of me were responsible for things ins side of me so as a simple example I attached my n my sense of
00:05:34
selfworth to getting an A so I when I went to when when when I went to college I was planning on becoming a doctor and
00:05:42
as any Indian kid wants to do I wanted to go to Harvard and so I had sort of all these Grand dreams of what I wanted
00:05:48
to accomplish in life and how I wanted to be a good force in the world and all this kind of stuff it's all ego and and
00:05:54
so what sort of happened is even though I wanted all of these things I assumed that all of that accomplishment would
00:06:00
bring me happiness it's when I went to India that I sort of discovered that like no amount of external
00:06:06
accomplishment will bring you lasting happiness and this is what we sort of see these are the people that I work
00:06:11
with now you know I'll work with someone like a banker or a doctor or a content creator and for all of these people it's
00:06:18
like once you accomplish your goal your mind moves the goal posts so you got promoted a vice president now you need
00:06:24
to be director then you need to be managing director then you need to be you know there's always more the Mind
00:06:30
always wants more so chasing after all of that will never lead to Lasting
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happiness so once I sort of started to realize that I kind of gave up all of my
00:06:41
desires for accomplishment um and the real Paradox there is that as I let go of all of my goals I started to become
00:06:48
more successful and so instead of trying to be something great I just focused on
00:06:55
you know small targets I sort of focused on my spiritual practice I tried to become a monk and take vows at the age
00:07:01
of like 22 and my teachers rejected me so they said I said I'm ready to forsake my life and they said you have nothing
00:07:09
worth giving up you have your life is meaningless like you have nothing worth giving up so go back to the United
00:07:15
States rise as high as you can finish a doctoral degree actually get something
00:07:20
worth giving up and then at the age of 30 if you still want to take vows we'll take you what situation must you have
00:07:26
been in at that point though before you went off at sort of 21 years to that ashram to be so prepared to give
00:07:33
everything up cuz cuz I heard that reading through your story that you were you had addictive behaviors at that
00:07:39
point already yeah so I I struggled a lot with video game addiction um so I I started playing video games when I was
00:07:45
very young and then in high school it really started to impact my grades in
00:07:50
college I was basically playing video games all day long instead of like going to class and stuff like that like I remember waking up the morning of my
00:07:58
Spanish final so this is my final exam and then realizing that I like wasn't very prepared for it so I just turned
00:08:04
off my alarm clock and went back to sleep and therefore guaranteed failure and so where I was mentally was just in
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a really bad place so I I had all of these goals and aspirations and I was so frustrated with myself that I couldn't
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bring myself to do what I wanted right so I I I knew that I had to study more
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every single day I would wake up and be like I have to study more I have to catch up I've fallen behind and so I'd
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have all of these thoughts and no matter how much I wanted something it seemed
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like my body or my brain would just not listen to me it Wanted the video game more it wanted something else more and
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so what I really was was in I had no control over my life I was probably depressed if I had seen a psychiatrist
00:08:47
I'm sure I would have gotten diagnosed with something um brief periods of suicidality basically waking up at noon
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every day playing video games all day long and I also remember like before I I had to play to the point of absolute
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exhaustion because if I put my head on the pillow and I did not pass out all of
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the thoughts that I was keeping at Bay with the video games would come rushing back about how I'm ruining my life day
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after day after day after day and I was just sort of sinking deeper and deeper and like falling into a pit that I could
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not climb out of so the ashram in India tells you that
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you can't give up your life what happened then and why did you specialize in psychiatric
00:09:30
so when I went to med school I mean when I when I was in med school I was I still had ego so I mean I still have ego now
00:09:37
but so I I was going to like like combine Eastern medicine and sort of focus on evidence-based complimentary
00:09:42
and alternative medicine and I was going to be oncologist and be a real doctor and save lives but what I really found
00:09:49
is that in med school um a couple of things one is my my favorite organ was the mind so
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what I fell in love with in India was the mind and sort of the internal sense of self and all this kind of stuff so I
00:10:04
I really liked that and then I think that my people were in Psychiatry so the other thing that happened is I was
00:10:10
trying to decide between internal medicine and oncology and Psychiatry and so one of my mentors in med school told
00:10:16
me like do this so do one month of each and then just ask yourself which one do you enjoy more so on the one hand when I
00:10:22
was thinking about oncology this was also chasing a desire right I had this idea that I wanted to be a real doctor
00:10:28
right cuz those are like I want to cure cancer like that's like let's let's be like a real solid doctor and do that and
00:10:34
then what I noticed was that now what internal medicine has become is very like sitting in front of a computer so
00:10:39
when you work in a hospital like eight hours of the day I'm sitting in front of a computer and you spend very little time with your patients and then over
00:10:44
time I started to to realize that like Psychiatry is the only field of medicine
00:10:49
that we're losing the war in so if you look at Medical outcomes for things like
00:10:55
bypass surgery and stuff like that those are really good and this is really insane to really think about so we can
00:11:00
take your body stepen and we can give you a heart from a different human being we can give you a kidney from a
00:11:06
different human being we can give you a liver from a different human being if you have a part of your body that doesn't work we can literally rip it out
00:11:13
of you stick in a new one and you will survive so outcomes in every field of
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medicine are improving except for mental health so mental health is the one area where addictions are getting worse
00:11:24
depression is getting worse suicidality is getting worse and this is in spite of ADV an es in Neuroscience so something
00:11:31
has happened where we've missed something about the mind and everyone is getting sicker so like this was the
00:11:38
problem that really attracted me and this isn't about my desire this is sort of where we introduce a concept of
00:11:44
Dharma or Duty so I recognize that I'm lucky I I'm I'm this kid who got to
00:11:50
spend seven years studying to become a monk in India so I travel back and forth but I spent my Summers there so I had
00:11:55
this really unique perspective and then I got to train at Harvard Medical school and what am I supposed to do with this
00:12:00
knowledge right like this is 15 years that I've devoted to understanding how human beings work and like I had this
00:12:08
very kind of you know Chic Private Practice in Boston where I worked with very very successful people and helped
00:12:13
them achieve and then I sort of realized like that's not what I'm here for right
00:12:19
so I've gotten 15 years to learn all of this stuff and like there's no shortage of people lining up to help CEOs with
00:12:26
their mental health there's absolutely a shortage people helping TW 25-year-old incels who are like on the internet who
00:12:33
everyone wants to throw in jail because they're very hateful and misogynistic and things like that so I sort of
00:12:39
realized that like okay like this is what I'm supposed to do so I'm going to do it okay so I've got a big question
00:12:46
but before I just to te up that big question you said you had this practice in Boston where you working with sort of
00:12:51
high profile individuals Etc what is the full spectrum of individuals that you've
00:12:57
spent time working with on a one-onone one basis with threey your practice I worked with people out of MIT incubators
00:13:03
CEOs entrepreneurs things like that so a lot of high performance people but then I've also worked with like losers let's
00:13:10
say so this is also more intensely this is everything from 25-year-old kid who's living in this mom's basement playing
00:13:15
video games all day two people who are even homeless um so I worked with like
00:13:21
basically like the whole spectrum and yeah you used the word losers there and
00:13:26
you did little air quotes for anyone that can't see you um right now I'm really interested when you talked about
00:13:31
in cells as well whether the way Society is and the way that we're heading in terms of clarity over what it is to be a
00:13:40
man has had any impact on those people that you refer to as incels like I'm I'm you know like
00:13:47
because we now have this digital world that we can live our lives in as a distraction from The Real World and
00:13:53
there's now more confusion than ever over what it is to be a man and the role of a man in a you know and then we look
00:13:59
at the stats around suicidality and I think in Europe the biggest killer of men under the age of 45 is themselves
00:14:05
currently is the shifting idea of what it is to be a man having an impact on people's sense of self and their purpose
00:14:13
100% so there's a there's a crisis that's going on in men and people think that this is new but I don't think it's
00:14:19
new it's always been there so if you look at like you know even 50 60 years ago 80% of suicides are still going to be men so
00:14:26
historically men have been killing themselves for like 100 years and no one's been paying attention we're just noticing now because the problem seems
00:14:33
to be getting worse so there's a couple of things that are really interesting to
00:14:38
understand so one is that if we look at what technology is doing to our brains the first thing that it's doing is it is
00:14:45
externalizing our attention so if you look back like let's say a thousand years ago as human beings we spent a lot
00:14:52
more time with ourselves so let's say that you and I go out hunting and then
00:14:57
let's say you shoot an arrow at a deer and you miss and then I shoot an arrow at a deer and I hit so in this moment
00:15:03
I'm superior to you and then we pick up the deer and we're carrying it back and then we have about two or three hours to
00:15:09
take that emotional insult and we kind of process it we just give our mind space to process it which it does
00:15:16
automatically now if you look at what happens in people's days they don't actually have any time to process what
00:15:23
happens to them because we are so constantly distracted by external things so I I don't know if you're like this
00:15:29
but I was in this point where I was idiotically efficient so I would wake up in the morning and I would listen to a
00:15:35
podcast while I'm like doing my exercise or whatever and then even when I'm cooking I'm listening to a lecture and
00:15:42
then like when I'm walking to the train I have ear uh you know earbuds in and I'm listening to a lecture there on the
00:15:48
train I'm reading I wanted my life to be completely efficient I didn't want to waste a single moment I literally listen
00:15:54
to the news in the shower it's right so we don't want to waste time and so if you really think about it where's the attention of your mind your mind is
00:16:01
pointed outside of you and so then what happens is once we do not pay attention
00:16:06
to ourselves we lose sight of our internal signals literally in the same
00:16:11
way that if you raise a child in a dark cave the the photo receptors in their eyes won't develop they will atrophy so
00:16:19
any anything that the Mind does not get access to will start to atrophy if I don't practice Spanish I'm going to
00:16:24
forget Spanish the mind is very brain is a very efficient organ so as we externalize our attention we lose sight
00:16:31
of our internal signals we don't know who we are anymore and now if I don't know who I
00:16:37
am how do I figure out who I'm supposed to be I pay attention to the outside where are the answers they're on the
00:16:43
outside so this person is talking about masculinity this person is talking about what it means to be a man this person is
00:16:48
talking about what it means to be a man and now since I don't have any internal source of information I'm trying to
00:16:53
figure out what it means to be a man from the outside world and this is when men get truly because what it
00:17:00
means to be a man we getting all kinds of mixed signals so on the one hand it means being physically fit on the other
00:17:06
hand it means being a provider on one hand it means having sex with as many women as you can find on the other hand
00:17:12
it means having sex with um just one woman and being a really solid man and being a good father and then there's
00:17:18
also people telling us that being a man means that you're right that you're toxic that your testosterone level makes
00:17:24
you violent that you're evil that you're privileged that there's a patriarchy all the kind of stuff so we're we're getting
00:17:29
all this information from the outside about what it means to be a man and so the other like there are all kinds of
00:17:36
interesting ramifications of this so men in today's society are not allowed to complain so if you complain and you're a
00:17:43
successful person or a privileged person everyone is going to think you're arrogant everyone is going to think oh my God who's this guy this guy
00:17:48
doesn't know what my life is like how does he have any right to complain and even your mind will tell you this you'll
00:17:54
look at these people you'll be like yeah I don't have a right to complain but now we need to stop for a second and think about what it does to your psychology
00:18:00
when you as a human being are not allowed to articulate your suffering I've worked with people who have grown
00:18:05
up in abusive households where children will say to their parents Mommy Daddy I'm hurting and the the parent smacks
00:18:12
them across the face how dare you you're so lucky you don't realize the sacrifices I make for you it's
00:18:17
traumatizing to the child when they say I am suffering and no one listens this is what we're doing to the generation of
00:18:24
men people are saying I am suffering for a hundred years men have been killing themselves 80% of suicides are men the
00:18:31
most dangerous thing for a man under 45 is themselves and these people have been literally killing themselves because no
00:18:37
one has been listening to them so in the same way that you grow up with a as a child in a household that's abusive
00:18:43
where no one takes you seriously no one listens to your suffering and now we even have successful men who are not
00:18:49
allowed to complain so the psychological impact is the same anytime you have a human being who is suffering in some way
00:18:55
and they cannot find connection with another human being they cannot find compassion with another human being that
00:19:00
person is going to feel isolated and if you look at the statistics on suicide it's very interesting so the number one
00:19:07
thing that correlates with male suicide is not depression and this is super scary there's one study I saw recently
00:19:13
that suggests that 50% of men who kill themselves have no history or evidence of mental illness and this I I believe
00:19:20
this statistic in in my clinical practice because I know what depression looks like I know what bipolar disorder
00:19:25
looks like and half the men that I've worked with at least are not actually mentally ill see mental
00:19:31
illness means a pathology of the mind which means that the mind is malfunctioning most of the suicidal men
00:19:36
that I work with they're not ma their mind isn't malfunctioning they genuinely have a life that is no longer worth
00:19:42
living they're looking at things in objectively realizing that there's no way out of the situation so they turn to
00:19:48
Suicide so I know it's kind of like a very controversial statement but I think that's what my clinical practice has
00:19:54
shown and there's some research to even back that up so if we sort of look at what's going on with men were sort of
00:19:59
they have nowhere to turn to and the number one thing that correlates with it is not Mental Illness but is a sense of thwarted belongingness so this is kind
00:20:06
of like fact uh multivariate regression analysis but basically what happens is
00:20:12
what causes people to kill themselves is they try to connect with others and they get rejected so it's specifically a very
00:20:18
specific research term called thwarted belongingness so I try to belong to a group and that group or multiple groups
00:20:26
usually will will thwart my attempts to join the tribe to join the community and
00:20:31
this is what actually correlates a lot with suicidality so what's going on with men right now is that we really don't allow
00:20:38
them to suffer you know because then you're not manly and we're so externalized with our attention that
00:20:43
we're not connecting with ourselves and so we're looking to other people to tell us what it means to be a man but that
00:20:51
may or may not work for you right that may have been what worked for them so then we kind of get into this problem
00:20:56
where we're disconnected from ourselves and then like the world doesn't accept us we're not allowed to suffer and
00:21:02
that's what creates the problem what is the remedy to this so I think the first thing is we must reconnect with
00:21:08
ourselves right so when you're kind of saying like why do does everyone think oh I I need to like achieve this and I
00:21:14
need to make this money and things like that where did you learn that you should do all that you learned all that from the outside Instagram Instagram right so
00:21:21
we get we get fed all of these ideas because if you look at all these influencers what are they doing they're
00:21:27
never crying they're smiling some of them will even pay very attractive women to take
00:21:33
pictures with them well some of them are crying but they're crying and uploading it for ulterior motives right absolutely
00:21:38
and I think a lot of them are genuinely suffering too but then it's it's also like I mean there's all kinds of weird stuff going on so one thing is like
00:21:45
people say that men we don't allow men to be emotional nowadays but say people say oh men are allowed to cry so this is
00:21:51
something that I experienced even in my marriage where we allow men to cry but we don't allow men to be angry but why
00:21:56
is it are men no longer allowed to be angry you just think about it for a second so anger is just a completely
00:22:01
normal emotion right but if I'm in a situation where I'm in an argument with
00:22:07
my wife and I feel emotion a and I express emotion a and she feels emotion
00:22:12
B and she expresses emotion be these two things should be equal right we as both human beings get to express what we feel
00:22:20
now in the case of me expressing anger and her expressing sadness she's crying and I'm yelling suddenly I've become a
00:22:27
villain it's so interesting I saw a viral tweet yesterday it was someone
00:22:33
Googling my wife is yelling at me what should I do and then my husband is yelling at me what should I do when they
00:22:39
Googled my husband is yelling at me what should I do domestic violence help line comes up as like a Google um popup when
00:22:48
you Google my wife is yelling at me what should I do nothing comes up yeah because obviously as you said in the
00:22:54
case of villainization I know that most domestic violence comes from men but
00:22:59
it's it's interesting that we see the emot we interpret the emotions entirely differently because of that absolutely
00:23:05
right so we as a society will say like oh men men need to be in touch with their emotions but not anger and then
00:23:11
this is what really screws men because as men we are socialized and conditioned to only feel anger this is the only
00:23:18
emotion you're allowed to feel as a man growing up and this is the one emotion that gets demonized when you're older so
00:23:24
I'll give you a simple example so like I used to get bullied a lot right so when I get bullied in school like what am I supposed to do Stephen in school well it
00:23:31
depends if you can fight back absolutely right it's fighting back like you didn't say talk to the teacher you didn't say
00:23:39
ask for help you didn't say cry about it because if I cry about it what's going to happen Stephen you're going to get bullied more absolutely so we turn every
00:23:47
emotion so men experience anger is something called an umbrella motion we literally suppress and are conditioned
00:23:54
to suppress all other emotions except for anger and then if you talk to men about their experience of Life anger is
00:24:01
always the first thing that comes out of their mouth someone breaks up with you how do you feel about it do you feel ashame no that's not what we say I feel
00:24:07
pissed off how could she do this to me and then we vent that anger on the internet and then this turns into
00:24:13
misogyny right and then we get demonized for it and it's not that there isn't we should be harshly judged if we
00:24:20
act on those kinds of emotions I'm not saying that that's the case but what we also need to consider is that the men
00:24:26
who are saying these kinds of toxic things are saying that for a reason this is because of their upbringing this is
00:24:32
because of the world that they lived in right so we're conditioned to only experience anger even sadness gets
00:24:38
turned into anger shame gets turned into anger fear gets turned into anger right so if I'm afraid of something happening
00:24:44
what do I need I man up get angry right like let's go son let's go this is the emotion that we tap into to overcome
00:24:51
fear so we don't feel any of those other emotions and we're left only feeling anger at the the very heart of
00:24:58
aggression um I heard someone say to me once that at the very heart of aggression is some kind of insecurity
00:25:04
but for men when they encounter that insecurity they only know how to sort of
00:25:10
manifest it as aggression so I wouldn't agree with the first thing that at the heart of all anger is insecurity but I
00:25:16
would absolutely agree with the second thing that the way that we the only way we know how to respond is with anger
00:25:22
because here's the exact quote just found it the source of aggression is insecurity as we are consciously aware
00:25:28
that our position in life is never secure people feel in increasingly insecure and helpless so they will be
00:25:35
increasingly aggressive and confrontational at a personal and a social level so let's tunnel down into
00:25:42
that for a second okay so I think that that is true on some level but also I would disagree so the first thing is
00:25:48
that we have parts of our brain even animals feel anger but I think that like when two dogs are fighting over
00:25:54
territory I don't think that that's born of some kind of identity of insecurity right so if we really look at like The
00:26:01
evolutionary purpose of anger this is my opinion is that anger is the emotion
00:26:06
that we feel to protect our territory it's a protective emotion so if I slap you across the face what's the first
00:26:12
thing that you're going to feel it's going to be anger so if I insult you you're going to feel angry it it's fascinating the way that it works so
00:26:18
anger causes our thoughts to be faster anger causes our peripheral vision to
00:26:24
collapse to 30° so I only see what's in front of to me and it also makes me less
00:26:31
uh sensitive to pain so like my no receptors will actually like start to be suppressed when I feel angry right so if
00:26:37
I get into a fight I'm going to feel it tomorrow but like while I'm getting hit I'm not going to feel it so I don't
00:26:42
think it's born of all insecurity I think anger is simply an evolutionary response it it's it's something that we
00:26:50
experience to protect ourselves that's why we feel angry right so if I attack Baby Bear Mama Bear is going to come out
00:26:56
angry so it's it's really a protective emotion now I agree with the second part of the statement 100% that when we feel
00:27:03
insecure especially as men the only way we are taught to deal with our problems is through anger right so if I'm feeling
00:27:10
insecure if I'm feeling ashamed of myself if someone's bullying me what do I do I put them in their place right I
00:27:15
don't try to make peace I don't complain to someone because no one's going to take me seriously right I have to stand
00:27:21
up for myself so we've got the first point there about how we remedy this challenge which is about self-expression
00:27:27
more self expression that's what I heard not self-expression introspection introspection getting to know ourselves
00:27:32
right so so it's very simple so if you look at your idea of what it means to be a man what percentage of that idea comes
00:27:40
outside of you and what percentage of that idea comes from within you about 90% comes from outside of me and that's
00:27:46
why 90% of people we're 90% right so and if you look and I'm sure you know
00:27:51
this and you've probably done this too if you look at where is the goodness in your life where does it come from Stephen it doesn't come from what what
00:27:57
other people have told you they may have told you something but then you looked within yourself and then you found that
00:28:03
to be true yeah the goodness in you the motivation the really good motivation in
00:28:08
you not chasing things but the the duty that you have you know everything that you really strive for all that good
00:28:14
stuff comes from inside you and the problem is that we live in a world that pulls our attention away from ourselves
00:28:20
what do you think of Andrew taism then so as a general rule I don't comment on people that I don't speak to mhm so what
00:28:27
what tell me the features of what you're talking about okay so the recent wave
00:28:34
of Internet masculine influencers who have like Bugattis and lots of women and
00:28:42
sports cars and there's there's many of them there's many of them and they seem to be resonant for some kind of Reason
00:28:48
um that are kind of saying that the way to become be a man is to have loads of money lots of women these kind of cars
00:28:55
physical strength and there just this huge sort of generation of young typically men that are now Disciples of
00:29:03
that religion yeah so I think if you dislike that toxic masculinity what we
00:29:08
need to understand is it's the people who hate that toxic masculinity that are driving these people to towards it so I
00:29:15
know this is kind of crazy so what's happened is this is grown right and as it's grown what have we done we've
00:29:20
demonized these people we've said these people are bad and as we demonize them what's happened they've grown stronger
00:29:26
so this is something that's very important to understand if you are a man and you say I am suffering today what is
00:29:33
the response that you're going to get shut up absolutely not in those exact words but that's whatever the words are
00:29:40
that's what they mean now I want us to be very very careful right so if you listening to step say people tell you to
00:29:47
shut up and your first thought as a listener is no that's not true that's
00:29:52
the problem so e if people agree with you they understand what you're saying but if they disagree with you that's the problem
00:29:57
you we literally have a man who is telling telling us right now that your experience is when I say I'm suffering
00:30:03
people tell you to shut up and then people are going to be judging you for saying that and they're going to be saying no that's not true they're going
00:30:09
to be saying shut up absolutely right so this is exactly the problem so men are struggling right now
00:30:16
and that the rest of the world says no you're not you're privileged you're a
00:30:21
man there's a patriarchy and I'm not commenting on the sociology of it there is a patriarchy whatever there's men
00:30:26
have many advantages in life I've experienced many advantages of being a man it's absolutely true I'm not let's not go there I'm talking about the
00:30:32
individual experience of men so there is one group of people on the planet who
00:30:38
says yes your life does suck and that's these toxic masculine people they're the only people that truly validate men's
00:30:45
experiences because everyone else says why are you complaining and these guys say yeah you're a loser what are
00:30:51
you going to do about it they at least meet you where you're at and they say yes your life is hard and I will show
00:30:57
you a way to make it better whereas the rest of the world says no your life isn't hard what are you complaining about and I've seen this as a doctor
00:31:05
I've seen patients who are complaining about pain women who are complaining about pain because they have an internal
00:31:11
bleed within the wall of their uterus that cannot get detected and they're saying I'm hurting I'm hurting I'm
00:31:17
hurting and we ignore this person's pain and that's when things go bad so for
00:31:22
years and years and years we have ignored the struggles of men and there's one group on the planet who accepts them
00:31:28
with open arms and the more that we demonize them so when someone starts believing in this toxic masculinity what
00:31:34
is the response do people ever ask like help me understand what your life is like like what do you like about this
00:31:41
person because everyone's going to them for a reason but we never we never bother to ask why are you listening to
00:31:47
this person what does this mean to you I see these we see these posts all the time in our community my boyfriend is getting into this stuff my son is
00:31:53
getting this stuff how do I stop it hold on a second don't try to stop it
00:31:58
understand it first because everyone's trying to stop it and no one is bothering to listen to what the
00:32:03
experience of these men men are and that's why it's getting worse and worse and worse as we try to stop it so if I'm
00:32:09
the mother of a son who is watching a lot of these sort of toxic male
00:32:15
influences online what would be a better approach versus just Banning the computer and
00:32:20
telling them that that's toxic and not to look at it help me understand what you like about this what is it like to
00:32:26
be in today's day and age how do you feel about yourself how does it feel
00:32:32
knowing that 70 to 80% of women want you to make more money than them and yet 60%
00:32:37
of people who graduate from college are women so men are faced are living in a world today where there are are
00:32:43
impossible expectations to meet and so like what is it like to be someone
00:32:51
who fundamentally has no chance at success right these are the kinds of
00:32:56
things that you need to say to these people you need to give them an alternate place to go where they can be
00:33:02
heard and helped supported and understood see anytime we make a
00:33:07
judgment our mind already has a conclusion there's nothing left to learn anytime we're judgmental so what do we
00:33:13
what do we do to all these people who are toxic men we even create the word toxic we literally label them as bad in
00:33:20
some way and I'm not saying that the behavior isn't toxic but what I'm pointing what I'm trying to point out is
00:33:25
that even in our language there is so much harsh judgment so I once had a patient we both just did it didn't we
00:33:33
absolutely so I once had a patient who is smearing feces over the all over the
00:33:38
school so adolescent kid right and when you have a kid who's literally taking a and wiping it on the walls and
00:33:44
stuff what happens the kid gets punished kid gets punished again and again and again the one really sad thing is no one
00:33:49
ever asks why are you doing this what's going on inside you because healthy kids
00:33:55
don't do this it's only kids whove been traumatized in some way and as I've worked with incels as I've worked with
00:34:01
people who are toxically masculine it always starts with trauma and when I say always this is a clinical experience but
00:34:06
I'm talking about 100% so 100% of people start on this path by getting hurt in
00:34:12
some way by getting taken advantage of in some way by sacrificing something and not getting something in return and they
00:34:18
have their share of responsibility too I'm not saying that they're Hess victims but I think that people who are raised
00:34:23
with love and compassion and do have connections don't go down this road you're so passionate about this
00:34:30
aren't you because I feel like your eyes have seen in your practice some pretty heartbreaking things yeah I mean I think
00:34:39
it's like see unless we are willing to be
00:34:44
what these people need they're going to continue going down the toxic masculinity route someone needs to start
00:34:49
offering these people safe haven no matter what they say or not no matter I
00:34:54
think there should be consequences for actions but so this as someone who's worked in a jail right so and this is what's kind of
00:35:00
interesting if you really think about it people will judge me for talking to or
00:35:06
even trying to support people who are toxically masculine and they're like oh my God you're such an you're giving these people a platform how could
00:35:12
you make the world a worst place and then I tell them I worked for in a jail for three months and they're like oh
00:35:17
look at you you're so compassionate you're working with these people who are like criminals and like oh my God we I don't think they realize that anyone you
00:35:24
see on social media is 10 times better than the people that I worked with in jail these are people who are actual
00:35:29
pedophiles actual rapists right not just talking about it maybe the people on social media are too I don't know and so
00:35:35
it's really interesting the way that our mind automatically judges things and so if we really want to fix this problem
00:35:41
and I think we need to fix this problem I it's just my take I mean I'm I'm not a
00:35:46
you know I'm a big fan of like compassion and trying to support other human beings I'm not saying that that's always the right answer I think
00:35:52
sometimes you may need things like war or violence or whatever I mean there may be causes for it but generally speaking
00:35:58
I think that like demonizing these people isn't working is there anything else that we haven't covered in the
00:36:04
remedies to this sort of male crisis we've talked about getting in more in touch with yourselves is there anything
00:36:10
else do we need more positive role models or is it really not about the external at all no I mean so I think all
00:36:17
that stuff is true so we know that for example like there's like a loneliness crisis and things like that I think that
00:36:22
we all it's not just Role Models like we need individual responsibility so like for example everyone will say
00:36:28
yeah like I I know it's a real tragedy that men don't have friends but it's not my job to fix I will hear this from both
00:36:35
men and women that like it's a real tragedy but it's not my responsibility it's sad that this thing happened but
00:36:40
it's not my my which makes sense right no no human being is responsible for another human being but then the
00:36:46
question kind of becomes like okay let's play that tape through to the end what happens to that person whose responsibility is it so if you look at a
00:36:53
lot of what's going on with men right now it's loneliness it's isolation it's touch starvation it's suicidality
00:37:00
sexlessness as well sexlessness and it's it's no individual person's responsibility but the real problem with
00:37:06
this is that these are not problems that men can solve on their own this is exactly why this is the problem that men
00:37:11
are experiencing because as men we are taught to be independent we are taught to be you should fix everything on your
00:37:16
own and so men have fixed all of the things that we can fix on our own the
00:37:22
only thing that's left is the things that we must rely on other people for right so no one's complaining about you
00:37:28
know I mean a lot of men are obese but there's not like an obesity there is a crisis but that's not what's bothering people that's not where we're losing the
00:37:34
war we're not losing the war on baldness right so there are lots of things as a man that you can fix in your own life
00:37:41
it's just the real challeng is that no one is willing to take responsibility for any level of connection with men and
00:37:48
so that's not something that is going to get fixed because you need another human being to hug you like you can't hug
00:37:53
yourself it just doesn't work so I and my area of focus tends to be on
00:37:58
introspection because I think that's like really really powerful but there's all kinds of other stuff that's important mentorship role models all
00:38:04
that kind of stuff but I think ultimately through introspection you can attain complete peace no matter who you
00:38:10
are what your what your path is circumstances I think it's kind of like
00:38:15
the Silver Bullet which is what the budha discovered so are you saying there that as a society we should take on more
00:38:21
of the responsibility for some of these big fundamental issues that that men and people in crisis can't solve for themselves subtly no not a society
00:38:29
because as a society who's part no I mean you I mean your in L listeners as
00:38:37
individuals need to take responsibility and it's not that you you have to take responsibility it's not fair to you to
00:38:43
be responsible for someone else but unless any everyone who is listening to this podcast goes out and literally hugs
00:38:50
a man no one else is going to do it because if you don't do it who's going to do it you can't rely on society we've
00:38:55
been relying on societ soet to fix the problem it's not working Society can't do so you're saying me forget
00:39:01
Society don't don't wait for government to have some kind of intervention how's it working out not great I mean this the
00:39:08
direction of travel as it relates to these sort of key issues like loneliness are only getting worse and worse suicidality seems to be getting worse
00:39:15
and worse M now you've got this young generation of women as well that are um
00:39:20
exploding in their suicidality yes young women I think it's the fastest growing group at the moment if my stats are
00:39:26
correct yeah so we have one really interesting thing is that that men and women are becoming more equal in many ways but
00:39:32
unfortunate in unfortunate ways so female suicidality is getting worse um we're also seeing like male body
00:39:38
dysmorphia On The Rise and I suspect it's way worse than we realize but I
00:39:44
think that what we're starting to see is less of a discrepancy in gender related health issues so the the things that
00:39:50
used to be predominantly men are now women are catching up which is a bad thing and things that were predominantly
00:39:56
women now men are catching up so body dysmorphia in men addictions in women are on the Rise um so I and and yeah so
00:40:04
there's things are getting worse what explains that specifically the the suicidality in young women I hear so
00:40:12
social media is a leading cause of that but yeah so I think if we look at it it's not just social media so I think
00:40:17
what's happened is that the fundamental day of a man and W and a woman I believe I don't know if this is factually
00:40:23
correct is getting closer and closer so like you know women are working now men are working now like dating is hard like
00:40:30
being on Tinder sucks if you're a dude or a woman for different reasons um we get we have a lot of technological
00:40:36
influence so like everyone's kind of getting screwed and we're all kind of getting screwed together and just
00:40:41
because things are getting bad or worse for men and men are in crisis does not has no relation to the fact that women
00:40:49
are struggling for a whole different set of reasons so there's plenty of biases that I see as a psychiatrist there's
00:40:55
biases against men in psychiatrist there's biases against women in Psychiatry I think one of the biggest mistakes that we make is that we seem to
00:41:00
think that it's like a pendulum where it's like if we're biased against men we can't also be biased against women but I
00:41:07
think both groups can suffer at the same time catastrophically and they are yeah I
00:41:12
want to talk about the role of social media your book is called how to raise a healthy gamer and when I think about gaming I think some people think about
00:41:18
it like holding a controller and being a I don't know a character in a video game or shooting something or whatever but
00:41:24
many of these social media apps are almost indistinguishable from gaming in many respects so the role of social
00:41:31
media in our mental health in the modern world um good bad and
00:41:37
different so bad right now so let's understand something so social media and
00:41:43
technology is kind of like introducing an invasive species so there's no there's no checks and balances right now
00:41:49
so I don't think gaming is evil so so I I struggled with video game addiction I play video games with my kids now so the
00:41:56
the main problem with social media and technology is that it's completely unregulated and we don't know how to fight against it so what's happening
00:42:03
right now is especially if you look at social media is that like it is affecting our brains and we're outgunned
00:42:09
so if you kind of like look at for example we're talking about masculinity right and what's my antidote to that it's introspection so if we sort of look
00:42:17
at these yogic or meditative skills as we train ourselves in these skills we
00:42:23
will become impervious to the negative effects of Technology the problem is that these things are so
00:42:29
good at literally shaping our thoughts so as an example if we look at social media you know body dysmorphia and
00:42:36
insecurity about the way that we feel about ourselves can lead to things like suicidality okay so as we look at you
00:42:43
know all these pretty people on social media you look at all these people who are not normal right so social media
00:42:49
will show you the prettiest people and so we start as I see pretty face after
00:42:54
pretty face after pretty face I start to think that that is normal my brain makes this calculation and then I start to
00:43:00
feel ugly so I this results in body dysmorphia so if we sort of look at that
00:43:06
the more we see pretty things the more that we have fomo because everyone is having fun right if I log on to Facebook
00:43:12
or Instagram this person is having a birthday party this person is having every every time I log on everyone is
00:43:17
having a blast but this is 365 people who each have one birthday party I get
00:43:22
one birthday party a year but anytime I look at in social media it seems like everyone is always having fun it's not
00:43:28
everyone it's just one person is having fun today one person is having fun tomorrow everyone just gets one birthday a year but when we see it we see
00:43:35
everyone's having fun and I'm not having fun so this makes us feel bad about ourselves so what is the antidote to
00:43:40
that so in the yogic tradition we have this concept of a hump God or ego so you have particular meditative practices
00:43:46
that help you dissolve your ego and essentially what social media does is amplifies our ego makes us feel really
00:43:53
bad about ourselves remember that one of the key marks is comparison of ego so social media induces a lot of comparison
00:44:00
so as we train our mind we will become free from those problems so if I learn
00:44:05
how to dissolve my ego then social media is not a problem easier said than done absolutely
00:44:13
you even said that you've still got an ego 100% and you've done all this practice and you've still got an ego yeah have
00:44:19
you dissolved it at all oh absolutely so I mean it's it's way smaller than it used to be but even to say that I have
00:44:27
completely dissolved my ego is an egotistical statement so this is a this is a battle that I will never win and
00:44:33
I've just accepted that right so I'm there's no way to win I'm not going to become enlightened in this day and age
00:44:38
so I'm just going to do the best that I can and I'll never succeed that's okay there's so many shocking stats that kind
00:44:43
of links to two things we've talked about here around connection and relationships um I think we all know intuitively now especially with all the
00:44:50
research and data that's come out how important relationships are for mental health gaming social media the digital
00:44:56
world The Vision Pro I bought one yesterday virtual reality augmented
00:45:02
reality as we head more towards these digital worlds are you concerned at all that
00:45:09
we're losing sight of connection and I I sit that in in comparison or alongside
00:45:14
the stats that we know about sexlessness people having less sex marriage is
00:45:19
seeming to get um worse and worse and more difficult the direction of travel here doesn't feel like it's very
00:45:25
optimistic yeah it's not and and what what do we do about that did you do you think we just
00:45:31
become gurus and leave the digital world and the Western World and try and escape and take our kids with us I had someone
00:45:37
talk talk to me about that idea no so I don't think so right so so my book is how to be a how to raise a healthy gamer
00:45:43
what I believe is that the these things are only evil if we don't know how to
00:45:48
deal with them so what's happened is human beings have created fire for the first time but we don't know how to
00:45:53
control fire so we don't don't need to run away from technology we just need to get better at dealing with it and
00:46:00
getting better at dealing with it is everything from maybe government regulation or whatever to even training
00:46:05
our like personal sense of self so if you sort of look at like why your relationship is decaying it's for a
00:46:12
number of reasons the first is that see Human Relationships evolutionarily were
00:46:17
predicated on the fact that humans needed each other for survival so fundamentally what has always bound
00:46:23
human beings together is like I need you and you need me otherwise we're not going to survive but what's happening in
00:46:28
the world today is we no longer need each other for survival so I never even need to leave my house I can order groceries I can order food I can work
00:46:35
from home I can literally stay in my home or in my room and I never need to walk out of the house I never need to
00:46:41
interact with someone so once you remove necessity from the equation as to why
00:46:47
human beings form relationships so we're seeing a decay in relationships because we no longer need
00:46:53
each other right so women no longer need men you can have an indep dependent Life as a man you no longer need a woman you can get a Fleshlight if you want to you
00:46:59
can have an AI girlfriend you have pornography you don't you don't we don't need each other and yet the the human
00:47:05
mind is the only organ of the body that in order for be it to be healthy it
00:47:10
requires another human being so we don't need our heart can be healthy without another human kidneys can be healthy
00:47:16
liver can be healthy our whole body can be healthy except for the brain and except for the mind we need someone else
00:47:22
to be mentally healthy so now what we're going to have to do is Society is evolve
00:47:28
we're going to have to start to realize that we don't need relationships anymore in order to survive but without them we
00:47:35
will all suffer and so what we need to do is evolve as humans and I think part of that is like learning some of these
00:47:41
yogic and meditation skills so that we can resist the influences the negative influences of Technology but that also
00:47:47
means prioritizing relationships even when we don't need to do you think they
00:47:53
should teach these skills in school the yog % it would be a good time to intervene wouldn't it yes 100% And I've
00:48:00
taught these kids uh these these skills to kids and it's amazing how quickly they pick it up it's hard for me and you
00:48:06
to learn because we're already formed but just like a language like if you teach it to a child I'll teach you know
00:48:12
like I I'll you know I taught infants to meditate my own children I taught them to meditate when they were like two what
00:48:17
does that mean what are what are these skills if you were trying to teach a grown-up like me where would you begin
00:48:23
so I'll tell you where I began with my kids and then we'll yeah so let's understand what meditation is so
00:48:29
meditation is controlling the attention of your mind so if I tell my mind to focus on this it's going to focus on
00:48:35
this so if we look at meditation there are a couple of key steps the first is
00:48:40
ignoring impulses so if I tell my mind to focus on this object it will have an
00:48:46
Impulse to focus on something else so we have to train the mind to stop thinking about other things so I teach this to my
00:48:53
four-year-old in a very fun way I tell her to lay down down on the ground and we play this game called sniffer gobler
00:48:58
where I'm a monster called a sniffer gobler and she has to be perfectly still so the sniffer gobler is going to try to get her to move and if she moves then
00:49:05
she gets gobbled so this becomes a game so I'm kind of trying to get her to move I'm tickling her a little bit I'm
00:49:11
sniffing or whatever I'm playing some kind of game with her and she's being perfectly rigid because it's part of a game so what's going on in her brain In
00:49:18
This Moment there's as I tickle her there's an Impulse to move the peripheral body is sending nervous
00:49:23
signals to the brain let's move let's let's shift let's do something let's let's do something but her frontal loes
00:49:29
in that moment are learning to restrain her mind and literally control her impulses so this is Step number one is
00:49:35
stop your impulses you can learn this very simply by for example I would recommend for
00:49:41
someone like you a practice called trataka so trataka is fixed Point gazing so you take a candle and you look you
00:49:48
gaze at the candle without blinking so the first 10 seconds will be easy but then you'll start to get signals let's
00:49:54
blink let's blink let's blink let's blink it's going to start to burn they're going to start to tear up you probably won't get hurt don't worry about it safe practice um because then
00:50:01
your eyes will start to water and they'll lubricate which is usually what our eyelids need to do and so you'll start to have tears but then you focus
00:50:07
your mind and now what you're literally doing is controlling your impulses your restraining your impulses so that's the
00:50:13
first step of meditation is to not let your mind wander into a thousand different things now if you do this one
00:50:19
practice which is not even real meditation your life will be transformed so you will literally it's like lift
00:50:25
weights for self-control so now you're sitting down to to eat a meal 11: p.m
00:50:31
rolls around you have those Cravings but if you've done thoa your frontal lobes will be strengthened and as your frontal
00:50:37
loes become strengthened you are able to resist your impulses you will gain control over yourself that's step one
00:50:43
just resist your impulses this is usually why meditation practices involve sitting and focusing and like not moving
00:50:50
even the second step is a little bit different there's a difference between avoiding distraction and then pushing my
00:50:57
mind to focus on a different thing so then for example what I'll do with my my daughter is I'll tell her to chant M and
00:51:06
maximize the feeling of vibration in your chest so now what she's doing is she's attuned to her body she's chanting
00:51:13
M and then she's trying to maximize the vibration So In This Moment she's using something to focus the attention of her
00:51:20
mind because her mind is fully on the chest and feeling that vibration and then she's kind of experimenting a
00:51:25
little bit but she's really tuned in and that trains our mind to focus on one thing so these are steps number one and
00:51:32
two so the first thing you've got to do is avoid impulses and distractions and the second thing is teach your mind how to sit on one thing and don't go any
00:51:39
anywhere else that's step one and two and then you'll be ready for meditation and what
00:51:44
is meditation so medit the word meditation in English has three Sanskrit
00:51:50
words that get translated into meditation DH and samti so dhana is
00:51:57
technically a focusing technique it's something that you do so I can tell you gaze at a candle flame without blinking
00:52:04
this is a DH it is a focusing technique this is what's confusing for a lot of people the second uh word for meditation
00:52:10
is Dian so danan is not something you can do it's a state of mind so I'll
00:52:15
explain this very simply do you know how to go to sleep me no I mean well I go to
00:52:21
bed and I lay lay down and EV I usually put something on so I can listen to as I fall asleep how I sleep no how should I
00:52:28
sleep pretend I don't know how to sleep can you teach me how to sleep go to the bedroom um make sure
00:52:36
it's nice and cold okay lay there in the bed and close your eyes Okay and wish
00:52:43
for the best so I I laid there and I closed my eyes I have a blanket over me it's cold and I'm not asleep yet what am
00:52:48
I doing wrong what do I need to do to go to sleep maybe you're not tired enough have you slept before yeah have you done
00:52:55
it a lot yeah but you can't tell me how to do it not really no absolutely so
00:53:00
sleep is a state of consciousness so going to bed is something that you do
00:53:06
and then sleep happens to you this is the biggest misunderstanding about meditation everyone's focused on
00:53:12
meditation techniques these are dhas if you are in a dhar as you gaze at the
00:53:17
candle for an extended period of time your mind will enter a state of consciousness in the same way that you
00:53:24
enter sleep but you can't control it you can't do it you can't evoke it you just have to create the right environment and
00:53:30
then the Consciousness will trigger the closest thing that many people experience is the Flow State but even in
00:53:36
the Flow State there is mental activity so the flow state is like the early stage of meditation and then after you
00:53:43
enter danan which is a state of consciousness which is of no mind so you have awareness but you have no thoughts
00:53:51
no emotions you're just simply aware the best example of this that that some people have experienced a couple of
00:53:57
things one is orgasm the moment of orgasm is one where you have no thoughts
00:54:02
thoughts come afterward thoughts come before but in that moment of orgasm you are aware you are present you are
00:54:09
Blissful but you have no thoughts or no mental activity sometimes also like
00:54:14
looking at the sun like watching a sunset walking along the beach there's some moments where you're present you're
00:54:19
not really thinking about anything but you're not asleep you're not daydreaming this is what Beyond is this is the
00:54:24
second state meditation after you sit in Dean for a while then you will attain something called samadi so these are the
00:54:31
transcendental states of meditation this is the kind of stuff that psychedelics does to you so when you enter these Sami
00:54:37
States this is when you start to get transformed and all this weird stuff that's very hard to describe so I would say that meditation is these three
00:54:43
things it's a focusing technique followed by a state of consciousness that fingers crossed get induced and
00:54:50
once you're in that state then you can kind of start climbing and what impact has has it had on your life
00:54:55
transform it completely changeed my life I mean I I used to be a 25-year-old kid with nothing to show for it and now
00:55:02
arguably I'm successful right so I'm an entrepreneur I'm a Harvard trained psychiatrist I have a clinical practice
00:55:08
I'm a dad I'm a content creator and it's like I'm the same kid that was failing out of college like I haven't changed
00:55:15
the only difference between the loser and the successful person which neither of those are true by the way those are
00:55:20
both manifestations of ego I'm neither a loser nor am I successful these are external trappings but fundamentally I'm
00:55:27
the same person that I've always been and the only difference is that meditation taught me how to control this
00:55:34
thing it's like when you're living life it's like you're playing a video game and the controller is unplugged so the
00:55:42
character on the screen does whatever the it wants to and you're trying to send its signals but it's not
00:55:48
listening to you so what meditation is is the process of plugging in your controller so that you start controlling
00:55:54
the instrument of your life you understand how your body works you understand how your mind works you understand where your desires come from
00:56:00
you understand how to conquer them you understand what your ego is you understand all of these kinds of things and meditation is what helped me do that
00:56:06
the thing with meditation that the sort of instant rebuttal is I tried it and it didn't work or I tried it and I can't
00:56:12
stop myself from thinking about things that's like what I hear all the time oh I can't meditate I tried it my B my brain's too busy okay great so let's
00:56:19
reot those as i' I've helped at least a thousand people overcome this so let's
00:56:24
understand a couple of fundamentals see if you've tried meditation it didn't work for you it's not your problem and it's not that
00:56:31
meditation doesn't work for you it's that you had a crappy teacher so if we understand okay like this is something
00:56:37
that we how do people learn how to meditate they hear a podcast like this and then they go sit in their room at
00:56:44
some point and then they close their eyes and try and think of nothing and it doesn't work so they stop okay great so
00:56:50
like who is their teacher the dire of a CEO right but this is what I mean so so
00:56:55
the quality of meditation teaching has degraded so profoundly everyone has mindfulness apps what's your teacher
00:57:01
it's an app yeah so if I were to say like okay like you know Stephen you're a pretty crappy surgeon but you've never
00:57:08
gone to medical school how would you expect to ever be a decent surgeon unless you literally had people teach
00:57:13
you so there are a couple of things that I learned how to meditate because I had expert teachers the reason that I teach
00:57:19
meditation successfully is because I'm a decent teacher I'm not even the best teacher out there so a couple of things
00:57:24
to say about meditation one is that there are 112 meditation techniques one
00:57:30
of which will work very naturally for every person on the planet okay so the number one reason that people suck at
00:57:36
meditation is because we're not teaching them the right kind of meditation as a simple example so I have patients with
00:57:42
ADHD and I try I teach them very successfully to meditate now a lot of these patients when they come to me they
00:57:47
say meditation doesn't work for me because I can't get my mind to slow down and focus on one thing it always wanders
00:57:53
to which I say that's great no problem we're going to teach you meditation that's going to feel so easy for you so let me ask you this if I if I've got a
00:58:00
kid okay who's running around and I want my kid to sit still how do I get the kid to sit
00:58:06
still how do people typically do that they shout they Shout at the kid okay so the kid sit still for a little while
00:58:11
then what happens runs off again absolutely so how do I get a kid to sit still when does a child
00:58:16
sit when it's playing a game okay so we can engage it in some way so like if
00:58:23
like this is why I don't know if you've seen this but airports that'll have like these little play places so the best way to get a child to sit down is to tell to
00:58:30
run you run go to the playground go to the playground for an hour and then what'll what'll the child do naturally I
00:58:36
want to sit down so when I'm teaching my patients with ADHD how to meditate I don't tell them to slow down their mind
00:58:42
I tell them to move it as fast as you can so I'll literally take my my patients to a cafeteria and we sit in
00:58:48
the cafeteria and I tell my patient you have to pay attention to as many sounds
00:58:53
as you can is quickly as you can I want you to hear every sound in the cafeteria
00:58:59
don't miss a single one don't pay attention to what people are saying but hear the words hear this sound hear this
00:59:05
sound hear this sound hear this sound so what I'm really telling their their mind to do is run instead of sit still
00:59:10
eventually what happens is they're paying attention to sound number one then sound number two sound number three not fast enough faster you need to
00:59:16
listen to 10 sounds in three seconds go faster go faster go faster go faster and eventually the mind gets tired and then
00:59:24
the mind naturally sits down easiest meditation in the world then they enter Dian so what are they doing in DH
00:59:31
they're paying attention to sound number one 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 and then eventually the mind will calm down
00:59:38
it'll get exhausted and then they'll enter the on and then they've learned to meditate so I think the reason that
00:59:44
meditation doesn't work for people is because they haven't tried the right technique so you look like a guy who
00:59:50
exercises you exercise yeah how do you exercise go to the gym lift the weights okay what about running yeah sometimes
00:59:57
swimming no can't swim why not think it's just a story I've told myself but I just can't float okay great right so so
01:00:05
if all exercise was swimming you would have concluded that exercise is not for
01:00:10
me but there are a thousand ways to exercise because human beings are different so you just have to find the
01:00:16
right kind of exercise for you and it's fun for you people will look at you they'll say I don't understand how you exercise oh my God it's awful I
01:00:23
personally I hate lifting weights but I love swimming I love hiking I love rafting so learning how to meditate is
01:00:29
not about doing one particular tradition and this is where there's a big problem in the world today which is that most
01:00:35
meditation teachers just know their one tradition and so if a student comes to them and they don't do it right the
01:00:42
teacher tells them you need to keep trying keep trying keep trying I've seen very few meditation teachers say you know what I'm not the teacher for you
01:00:49
this is not the right app for you you should go use this different app because based on your mind this is what what
01:00:54
will suit your mind we each have a cognitive fingerprint and learning how to meditate very easily is about
01:01:01
choosing the right meditation for your cognitive fingerprint and does meditation help us
01:01:07
with these addictions we've been talking about social Med social media addictions uh porn addictions you talk about as
01:01:14
well um gaming addictions I I think it I I I would go as far as to say that it
01:01:21
conquers them all so that's kind of a a grandio statement but if we really look at what is an addiction an addiction is
01:01:27
two things it is a source of pleasure and it is an antidote to pain so anytime
01:01:33
we look at any addiction so opium for example gives me pleasure and it also numbs out it shuts off the functioning
01:01:40
of my amydala and my lyic system video games shut off my amydala and my lyic system make my negative emotions go away
01:01:46
and release dopamine so we have dopamine release and we have suppression of our negative emotional circuitry all addictions do this so if you sort of
01:01:53
look at it how do we why do we fall into an addiction it's because we become
01:01:59
dependent on this dopamine surge on giving into our wants right so our mind
01:02:05
says I want this thing and we can't control that impulse when it wants something I have to give it I can't
01:02:11
control it I'm too weak the other thing that happens is that when anytime we have pain we have to run away from it
01:02:17
but meditation is literally the process of training those two skills so when I
01:02:22
have a want I learn to resist I want to scratch my nose no scratching your nose and what we sort of know from a
01:02:28
neuroscience standpoint is that we know that meditation strengthens our frontal loes and weak frontal loes are fertile
01:02:35
ground for addictions so we know that we literally strengthen the parts of the brain that will help you resist an
01:02:41
addiction from the pleasure side the other cool thing about meditation is that it makes us not impervious to pain
01:02:48
but we stop avoiding pain so you ask me like am I nervous about how the book is going to no if it's if it if it's if it
01:02:53
crashes and burns then I will be sad so what right so I'm going to be sad will I'll be sad forever well that depends on
01:03:00
whether I base my sense of identity on this one book I'll be sad for some amount of time and that Sadness by the
01:03:07
way is karmically what I bought when I wrote the book and I think this is something that a lot of people Miss but the moment that I write the book I open
01:03:13
myself up to the pleasure of it being a success and the pain of it being a failure does that make sense so if I
01:03:20
really wanted to avoid the pain the only solution is to not write the book in the first place but that's not the way to live life so meditation teaches us how
01:03:27
to tolerate pain how to accept pain and then once you can accept pain oh my God
01:03:33
your life will become so much easier and then something beautiful happens now I don't have to use the Opium I don't I my
01:03:41
day job is an is as an addiction psychiatrist so I teach this stuff to people who are addicted to heroin and
01:03:46
Fentanyl and video games and stuff like that it works for all of them not all of them most of them and so meditation
01:03:53
absolutely helps because it it literally strengthens the parts of our brain that addictions prey
01:03:59
on and these are all addictions so like food addictions and porn addictions gaming addictions and social media
01:04:04
addictions so each addiction has a slightly different manifestation but the core aspect of providing pleasure and
01:04:11
taking away pain is true of all addictions what what is the most popular Addiction in your mind that the vast
01:04:19
majority of society are currently um prayed to but don't really realize I
01:04:25
mean I reading through your book I think phone addiction which you talk about in chapter 7 is maybe the thing that none
01:04:31
of us see as an addiction but we're probably addicted if I look at my screen time I Think Jesus CH most popular yeah
01:04:37
so I think phone addiction is really bad I mean in a weird way I'd say this doesn't really qualify as an addiction
01:04:43
but the biggest problem I think is is our addiction to success right so if we sort of think
01:04:51
about it like I I don't know if that's kind of the context of the just where my my mind goes but if we sort of think about it everyone is using success as an
01:04:57
antidote to their pain and a source of their pleasure and so here we are chasing all of these things for success
01:05:04
for success for success but in terms of like technology or like from a psychiatric perspective I think phone is
01:05:10
probably at the top of the list I think I've been quite confused about something in my life but just generally because I
01:05:16
when I think about those young men that are struggling or young women that are struggling I often think what their life
01:05:21
is lacking is a sense of purpose and ambition and something to strive for
01:05:26
this is kind of what we say but now I'm kind of confused based on what you said because is that what that there they're
01:05:32
missing do like you see a kid he's 22 years old he's in his mom's basement he
01:05:39
you know low self-esteem playing video games all day doesn't respect himself
01:05:44
low self-worth in my head I used to think okay well what that kid's need what that kid needs is a big goal to
01:05:50
strive for fair enough so but let's let's pay attention to your specific language so she said what that kid needs
01:05:56
is purpose ambition and something to strive for are those three things the same no right so this is the big core of
01:06:04
the problem is this is why things get modeled and this is why people get confused because ambition is very different from purpose they're like at
01:06:10
opposite ends of the spectrum if we look at it from a scientific perspective the number one thing that correlates or one
01:06:16
of the two most popular or two variables that correlate the most with pornography addiction is meaninglessness in life so
01:06:23
if you want to conquer your pornography addiction you have to have a reason to not jerk off and watch porn all day so
01:06:30
you have to have a life that like makes it so that you just don't do that because what happens is if you have a
01:06:36
empty life and your brain is kind of sitting there and it's like okay we're not doing anything anyway so let me get
01:06:42
some dopamine like let's just do that and that's how people become addicted to pornography is there correlation there between when people masturbate and what
01:06:50
they're going through in their life absolutely so so it's not even masturbation pornography addiction but what we find is that the more emotional
01:06:57
the more their amygdala and libic system gets activated the more pornography they will use so the more negative emotion
01:07:04
you experience the more pornography you will watch why because I want dopamine
01:07:09
no no so this is where it avoids the pain so pornography shuts off our experience of negative emotions it's not
01:07:15
even the pleasure it's the avoidance of the negative emotion so if I'm really stressed and I'm going through a lot of at work I will I have a higher
01:07:22
chance of masturbating that day not even asting watching pornography okay so masturbation is what leads to the
01:07:27
dopamine but watching pornography will shut off the negative emotions so I've worked with people who have pornography
01:07:32
addiction for example that will have work on one screen and they will literally have pornography open and
01:07:38
playing on the second screen you're joking no very common so we don't talk
01:07:44
about pornography addiction so so like and and the worse their life is the more stress they have
01:07:51
that's when I'll ask them you know when are the days that you have porn open on the second screen and they'll say it's
01:07:56
like it's the day the stress the worse their stress gets the worse their use gets so how do you help that person you
01:08:03
teach them a couple of things one is that you have to understand what the pain is right so and and then you teach
01:08:10
them alternate emotional regulation skills so if you teach them other ways to manage their emotions they won't need
01:08:16
the pornography the reason that porn is so addictive is because from a biological perspective we're so wired
01:08:21
for sex that it is a very effective way to shut off our negative emotions but if
01:08:27
you can teach them how to manage their negative emotions and the second thing that we do is we metabolize the source
01:08:33
of your negative emotions so if there is some kind of trauma at the root as we heal that trauma the drive for the
01:08:41
addiction will melt away interesting have you dealt with a lot of people that have a pornography addiction
01:08:48
sure and the sort of Common Thread is that they all have some kind of early trauma and they I've read in your book
01:08:55
as well that those people are typically exposed to pornography at a younger age yes so there's all kinds of stuff that happens but yeah usually people have
01:09:01
what I would say is they have unmetabolized emotions or a source of
01:09:06
constant streaming of negative emotions does it create shame 100% in those
01:09:12
people is that one of the that's the problem right so as I become addicted to pornography I feel ashamed of myself and
01:09:17
what's my antidote to shame Stephen pornography there we go so the that's the downward spiral upward spiral looks
01:09:25
like like getting out of there so I'm watching pornography I do something I need less pornography yeah so so often
01:09:31
times what the upward spiral looks like is when you feel shame come and talk to me right so we're going to talk about what you feel ashamed of you're going to
01:09:38
vent that negative emotion so we also know this is something that Freud discovered is that
01:09:44
experiencing emotion even if it's not related to a real event weakens the
01:09:49
emotion so what he sort of found is that if you can get someone to cry in your office as a psychotherapist and they
01:09:55
vent that emotion out they feel lighter they feel better the emotional energy is left their body in some way so that and
01:10:02
then we often times will get to the source of their trauma and we're going to metabolize that emotion that's really
01:10:07
deep down there and that's kind of like it's kind of like an oil well that's just pumping up this black stuff so we
01:10:13
shut off the Oil Well we teach them alternate emotional regulation skills and we work on building a life that is
01:10:19
worth living what is one example from your practice where someone has gone from
01:10:24
really zero to a remarkable place is there a case study that comes to mind where you go oh my God that is proof
01:10:29
that any transformation is possible sure so there's a privacy concern so I'm
01:10:35
happy to be a little bit General here but um you know so I had someone who was
01:10:41
started using opiates in their teenage years uh and at the age of 32 went back
01:10:49
to school um and has developed a career and and became a best-selling author by the
01:10:55
age of 36 so in the four years that we worked together they got to writing
01:11:01
which is they what they always wanted to do published a book and like the book was very very successful and then they
01:11:07
actually have a separate career on top of that chapter five the first conversation the hardest thing about
01:11:13
talking to someone about an addiction they have is that the first conversation has to be open without it affecting their gaming Addiction in this case that
01:11:21
first conversation is the most difficult often yeah so it's not just for addiction so
01:11:26
if we sort of understand like the first conversation that you have with someone about something that they're not doing
01:11:33
well in their life and this relates to like men or incels or whatever you have to approach that non-judgmentally so if
01:11:39
you want to connect with someone and a big part of what I believe about addiction and I learned not believing this is true is that you can't cure an
01:11:47
addiction for someone else so they have to want to stop so I've had people you
01:11:53
know I used to work at two rehabs and these are like 30-day rehabs where people get forced into rehab never going
01:11:58
to work the person themselves has to want to stop the addiction conquer the addiction quit the addiction in order
01:12:05
for it to be successful so how do you convince someone that okay this is a
01:12:10
problem and like you need to stop this you can't you can't really convince them but the best that you can do is approach
01:12:16
them non-judgmentally right so like help me understand what is going on in your life help me understand why you this
01:12:23
thing like you can have judgments in your mind that's okay but be open-minded and be compassionate recognize that if
01:12:29
this person is doing something they are doing it for a reason if they didn't get
01:12:34
if their brain did not get more benefit than harm out of it then their brain would not be doing
01:12:40
it on that first conversation and also that moment of
01:12:47
sort of change where they realize that they want to make a change in their life and it's you know enough is enough people often refer to that as The Rock
01:12:53
botom is it true that people need
01:12:58
to because I I spoke to a few people about this whether we need to get to a rock bottom in order to make those big
01:13:04
changes in our lives or if there's a way to not get to Rock Bottom before we decide to make the change so I'll give you an answer from one of my patients
01:13:11
who I think knows this way better than I do see when you hit rock bottom you can always pull out a jackhammer and break
01:13:17
down to the next level so there's no such thing as Rock Bottom there's just as low as go before you start moving up
01:13:24
that's honestly what I believe so you could say that I hit rock bottom but you could easily I mean I'm sure I could
01:13:31
have done worse right and so a lot of people for them it is hitting rock bottom but I I I think really I I trust
01:13:37
my patience that it's just as far down as you go before you turn around and that's your lowest point we can all
01:13:42
think of people in our lives that we want to help change and I I guess in what I just said is part of the problem because we want to intervene in their
01:13:48
lives and create change for them but we we sometimes watch them sell self sabotaging and self-sabotaging and then
01:13:55
telling us they have this goal they want to be this or that or the other but then their their behavior continues to follow a similar pattern where they continue to
01:14:01
self-sabotage and as byst standards sometimes we try and intervene we try and help them in various ways I'll pay
01:14:07
for your therapist I'll take care of your gym membership whatever what should we be doing as byst standards of someone
01:14:14
who's saying they want to change but is showing no sign of doing anything about it great question so what we should do
01:14:22
is not be bystanders but also not quite pay for therapy so this is something that's very important so I once had a
01:14:27
very brilliant teacher at Massachusetts General Hospital who told me that as a doctor you should never go the extra
01:14:33
mile for a patient and then I was kind of confused by that right because I was taught that oh my God like as a doctor
01:14:39
you should sacrifice you need to go the extra mile and he said the extra mile is a mile too far so anything that someone
01:14:46
can do for themselves you should not do for them so what I sort of really found is that you know there there's really
01:14:52
interesting case of a patient that I had that had was a child with HIV so this is when HIV was first discovered they got
01:14:58
diagnosed as an infant so they had a perinatal HIV exposure and so this is when we were really discovering HIV and
01:15:05
so everyone bent over backwards for this kid because this a poor this is a seven-year-old kid with HIV so if they
01:15:10
ever did anything wrong it's not their fault the kid has HIV they'd come late to appointments they wouldn't do their
01:15:16
homework oh there's always people bending over backwards to help this person help this person help this person so I was this uh person's doctor when
01:15:23
when they were in their late 20s and I was stunned by how incapable they are
01:15:28
they can't do even the most basic things like fill out an application for a particular thing that they needed they
01:15:34
needed the nursing staff to sit with them and fill out the application because what we had done is engendered
01:15:39
some degree of helplessness by doing everything for them so the biggest mistake that a lot of parents make is
01:15:45
that they accept responsibility for their kids and if we love someone who has an addiction we want to protect them
01:15:52
from the consequences of that addiction so we actually step up and we do more
01:15:59
the problem is that the moment that you start doing more they will start doing less so if you look at something as
01:16:07
simple as let's say you've got a roommate and there's dishes in the sink the more you take responsibility for the
01:16:12
dishes what is your roommate going to do they're going to do them less the same is true so what I sort of find is that
01:16:18
instead of because we're so afraid oh my God like if I don't help them with this if I don't pay for your therapy then going to be you're so afraid and
01:16:24
so who's taking responsibility for it you are let them ask you to pay let them come to you and say you know what I
01:16:30
really want to conquer this I found someone but I can't afford it will you help me the outcomes that you see will
01:16:36
be drastically different in my own practice sometimes I charge a lot of money and what I have found 70% of my
01:16:43
practice at one point was free what I found is the number of people who know show for their appointments which I'm
01:16:49
giving them a big break the more of a break I give them and if they're free they show up the least if someone has
01:16:57
skin in the game they will actually do it so my my patients who are actually paying for my services they're the ones
01:17:03
who always show up so what we want to do is we want to start by asking these people hey tell me how you feel about
01:17:11
your addiction or not addiction just tell me what's going on with your gaming right like how do you feel about your life like help me understand what's
01:17:16
going on with you start by just understanding the person and if you do that everyone has ambivalence that means
01:17:24
internal conflict there's a part of them that wants to quit and there's a part of them that doesn't want to quit the problem is that anytime we see a flash
01:17:31
of them wanting to get better what do we do we're like Yay let's do it and then what happens we get that resistance from
01:17:37
them so if if I'm like if I come to you Stephen I'm like hey man I'm thinking about going to the gym what do you say
01:17:43
yeah come on come with me right and then what do people do when you say that they don't
01:17:48
come right so what's kind of interesting so what we do is what I do as a psychiatrist is like you know you're
01:17:54
just thinking about going to the gym but like do you really need to oh really you push back yeah right so
01:18:00
so whatever side you take they're going to take the opposite side why' you do that because that's what the science
01:18:06
tells us so there's this technique called motivational interviewing and anytime you're dealing with something called ambivalence which is internal
01:18:13
conflict if you push them in one way they're not moving in that way they're
01:18:18
going to move in the opposite way I'm not saying that you can't encourage them but let them take delad that's the big difference let it be their motivation
01:18:25
let it be their motivation and anytime they move in the right direction you want to support that but don't ever push
01:18:30
them the choice is theirs and the less that I do for my patients the better
01:18:36
that they end up doing last question you talk about this 25% rule what is the 25%
01:18:43
Rule and how does one apply it so see we all all think about goals where I want
01:18:49
to be now there's a really tricky problem in our brain so if I have a goal that I want to be a millionaire and I
01:18:55
work today and I earn $10 how does my brain interpret that it
01:19:00
looks at the effort that I put in it says $10 is nowhere near my goal and it actually tanks my motivation because it
01:19:06
looks at this situation it says I have not moved sufficiently close to my goal so the bigger our goal is the harder it
01:19:14
is for our brain to get on board with doing it so the 25% rule is take
01:19:19
anything that you want to accomplish and cut it in half and then cut it and half again and this should be your first goal
01:19:25
at a minimum you can even go smaller than that you go 12.5 there's there's no amount that is too small but generally
01:19:31
speaking if you really look at it the more ambitious your goals are the harder they will be to achieve and I know that
01:19:37
sounds kind of weird but you can still achieve it but only if it's not your goal that's been my experience so
01:19:42
there's Neuroscience to back this up but even then you know when I went when I was 18 years old I wanted to go to Harvard and I wanted to be become a
01:19:47
doctor when I gave up on the goal and I focused on the task at hand so if you really look at how do you accomplish
01:19:53
great things not by wanting to accomplish great things I can be at the bottom of Mount Everest and I can look
01:19:59
at the top and I can say I want to climb to the top of Mount Everest or I cannot even look at the top of Mount Everest
01:20:06
whether I'm looking at the top or not looking at the top the way to get to the top is the same one step at a time so
01:20:12
it's really interesting because everyone is so focused on goals what I've sort of learned as a psychiatrist and even in my own life is like focus on today focus on
01:20:20
doing something today and be super careful about setting a big goal because
01:20:25
then even if you set a huge goal and you do 50% of it you'll feel like oh my God
01:20:31
like I didn't accomplish my goal and even 50% progress will feel like a failure because you didn't hit your goal
01:20:37
right it's really weird the way that our motivational circuitry works so cut your goal in half and then cut it in half
01:20:42
again and focus on that one it makes sense it's what um the performance director of I think team Sky said David braford talked to me about many years
01:20:48
ago he said that he used to ban the athletes from thinking about the podium and just focused them on their pedal
01:20:53
Strokes today on their bikes and that team went on to become the greatest cycling team of all time pretty much um
01:20:59
from being down and out and I always wondered why he would he yeah he said he banned them thinking about the medals
01:21:04
and stuff like that because it would form as a distraction from today's performance but it's difficult to do so
01:21:10
okay I'll stop setting goals oh or set them 25% or set them with awareness no I
01:21:15
do anyway I to be honest I I don't set big goals in my life I find it really difficult when people ask me what's your
01:21:21
5ye or your 10y year plan you feel like you're bullshitting because the answer in reality is I'm just going to do my very very best every day exactly right
01:21:28
so I I agree with that 100% because what more than can you do yeah like setting a 10-year goal doesn't I mean we can sort
01:21:35
of think that it makes us work harder and it can in some ways but it's not the ideal way it's it's going to confuse
01:21:41
today and cause a lot of procrastination and confusion about what I should be doing today because if my goal is 10 million in 5 years like what like
01:21:48
absolutely doing a course online today doesn't feel like yeah so if you have a 10-year plan you can afford to waste
01:21:53
today and you can afford to waste tomorrow because you have so much time exactly and that's not useful if you've
01:21:59
seen my most recent post on LinkedIn you probably have seen that I'm on a bit of a hiring spree at the moment across my company flight group trying to find the
01:22:05
world's best talent and throughout these years of building these businesses my first Port of Call for hiring has always
01:22:11
been LinkedIn jobs who are a proud sponsor of this podcast this is because of two reasons number one LinkedIn isn't
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and of course terms and conditions apply we have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the
01:22:59
next guest not knowing who they're going to be leaving it for okay and the question that's been left for
01:23:05
you if you could write one more book and that book was one page long and it was
01:23:11
the last message that you could send to the world and your family what would you use that page to say so I I can tell you
01:23:19
what I would want it to say but I think writing it in one page would be very difficult like I I
01:23:25
would do it but so I've thought about this that you know if I die tomorrow I basically only have one regret about
01:23:32
life I only have one thing that I want to accomplish which is that I'm trying very hard to help a lot of people in the
01:23:40
world and the one regret that I would have if I died tomorrow is that I would
01:23:45
not have taught my children what I teach the rest of the world so I've even thought about this that if if I got
01:23:51
diagnosed with cancer and I had one year to live how would I spend that year I would write a book for my kids that
01:23:57
distills everything that I've learned about this sort of motivation Neuroscience spirituality it's all the
01:24:03
same thing it's all the same truth see the yogis learned this stuff and they were using the same brains that we
01:24:08
learned so they discovered all the principles of Neuroscience through internal observation so I would put on
01:24:14
that one page probably one page is how many lines 16 lines 18 lines 20 lines maybe so I'd probably write 20 sutras
01:24:23
that are like the core of what I've learned and that may be things like you know
01:24:28
like one of the sentences will be like what is the ego the ego is that which Compares in the sense of self how does
01:24:35
one introspection is the way to shed yourself of like worldly expectations
01:24:40
like once you start to know yourself you won't look to the outside world to tell you who you should be and as long as
01:24:47
you're telling the outside world as long as you're listening to the outside world to tell you who you should be you'll never be happy because they keep
01:24:54
changing right so some of this stuff it would be something like that but that's probably what I would do i' try to distill everything that I've learned
01:25:00
into 20 lines I was hoping that I I can do it in a book but one page would be tough I'm curious about what some of
01:25:06
those other lines would be so You' talked about introspection about ego uh yeah so I would probably include um one
01:25:13
line about glisha and one line about vasana so glisha is coloring so the
01:25:19
realization that most of what you experience in life doesn't come from the outside world it comes from what your
01:25:24
mind adds to the equation so I'll give you an example so if I met you for the first time and I called you a loser if I
01:25:31
said Stephen you're a loser the impact of that these are just words but whether that hurts you or
01:25:38
doesn't hurt you B is based on the interpretation of your mind so another good example is let's say I'm like
01:25:44
talking to a girl and I text her and she doesn't text me back there are a thousand reasons why she may not text me
01:25:50
back in 10 minutes but it is what my mind adds to the reality of the world
01:25:56
that actually me the most and most people don't realize this they think that oh this person dislikes me and this
01:26:02
thing is going wrong and this thing is going no it's not actually like that it is your mind that is actually coloring
01:26:08
all of your experiences so there' be one sentence on Kisha one sentence on Vasa you know an
01:26:15
understanding of the ego an understanding of where desires come from how to be happy this whole idea that
01:26:21
chasing an external thing for happiness will not ever achieve it in a lasting
01:26:26
way you got two kids yeah what would be the last paragraph
01:26:32
you'd ever say to
01:26:39
them probably I'm sorry I have to go and I wish I had more time with
01:26:45
you that's probably what I would say and then I love you and
01:26:51
uh I may be gone in this body but I'll be around and we'll meet
01:26:58
again it's interesting because you know when you
01:27:04
meditate we have this idea that we only live this life and that's because of the conditioning of our brain and there are
01:27:11
lots of studies there's a guy at University of Virginia who who's done research on past lives and I've even done like past life Psychotherapy with
01:27:17
my patients and when I was meditating I I realized one day that I in a past life I
01:27:25
know this is going to sound completely insane but I've I've done that what you're hearing now is not a hypothetical
01:27:30
I've lost a child before I've been a mother before and it took me some time to figure this out but when you meditate you start to discover things about
01:27:37
yourself and I have this very deep sense of loss in me that I've lost a child
01:27:42
this is not hypothetical I know what it's like to lose a child and it's
01:27:47
happened to me before and I still carry that hurt with me from a past life so when you ask me this hypothetical this
01:27:53
is not a hypothetical for me this is a trauma that I've experienced just not in this life so I I'm lucky that so far it
01:28:01
hasn't happened I hope it doesn't happen but I've chosen to be attached to my kids and in the same way that we talked
01:28:07
about you know the the moment that I write the book is the moment that I open myself up
01:28:13
to success of the book or disappointment in the book in the moment that I choose to love my kids I open myself up to the
01:28:19
hurt of losing them because I could lose them one day and so that's one question that I think
01:28:25
I've answered before it's first person that's ever asked me that but you know it's it's I I can feel the hurt I can
01:28:32
feel the loss and just in my own experience maybe it's an imagination or a construction from the neurons in my
01:28:38
brain but just what I've learned I think it's like I've been there before and it's very painful and I still carry that
01:28:44
pain with me do you think that's some kind of generational trauma or do you believe that that was you in another life oh
01:28:51
same thing so I I think now we know from EP studies of epigenetic inheritance
01:28:56
that we as human beings we actually all inherit memories so I think it's really interesting because even if you look at
01:29:01
your aversion to snakes how does you how do you have a fear of snakes even the first time you see see a snake you'll be
01:29:07
scared of it so we know scientifically that we inherit memories that are not our own so now the question is just a
01:29:14
little bit intellectual or philosophical that if you inherit a memory was it you I I don't know I mean it's part of your
01:29:20
DNA it's part of your EP genetic expression would you consider that part of you or not I think most people would
01:29:26
consider your DNA part of you so I I think yeah we even have scientific evidence of that you could argue is is
01:29:33
sort of a mechanism through which we inherit memories from the past for sure whether it's your life or not is Up For
01:29:38
Debate my girlfriend said this to me she she's talked about traumas that she feels like come from a past life it's
01:29:46
very difficult to to believe very very difficult to
01:29:52
believe but my girlfriend always seems to be right about everything eventually I eventually come to learn through lots
01:29:57
of research that what she's saying isn't crazy and she's she's she's gotten very very emotional at times about things
01:30:03
that she thinks she's tapped into from her past life through meditation she's a breath work practitioner she's actually in Costa Rica now doing some um some
01:30:10
Retreats and stuff it's so interesting I'd love to I'd love to learn a lot more about that but for now Dr K thank you so
01:30:17
much for um so much yeah you're one of the most engaging people I've ever spoken to in my life because you're so
01:30:22
deeply passionate about the things that you speak on and your book is about much more than gaming the book is called how to raise a healthy gamer but it's about
01:30:28
everything it's about addictions it's about our mind it's about our relationships with both the technology
01:30:34
that we have and each other um the top of the book it says end power struggles break bad screen habits and transform
01:30:41
your relationship with your kids but it's it's much more than just about kids it's about um it's about all our
01:30:47
relationships with all things and all people fundamentally because it's about the human mind and that's why it's so incredibly important
01:30:52
and if nobody has uh discovered you online before I would highly recommend they go and check out your YouTube channel because you managed to distill
01:30:59
some of these complex things into highly engaging science-based advice and it's a
01:31:04
remarkable talent that you have you're one of the most effective communicators I've ever encountered so thank you for your time today thank you so much
01:31:10
Stephen it's been awesome being here um I feel privileged to be a tiny slice uh
01:31:18
to be a tiny slice of your life cuz I I can see you're such an amazing dude and like I'm
01:31:25
very excited that you exist in the world today and I get to see what you continue doing oh what a compliment thank
01:31:34
you the key to growing a business is making sure that it's scalable and this comes with integrating into the right
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