EMERGENCY DEBATE: They Lied About The Economy Recovering! Is A Financial Apocalypse Coming?

I'm I'm sick of multi-millionaires telling kids who can't afford to turn the heating on you just need to be more

entrepreneurial it's sick Dan it's sick well your video where you talk about if you don't have a rich dad you're screwed

well to me if I had have come across your content at 19 20 years old I would have been screwed my friends can't feed

their kids okay if it was that easy why is everybody not doing it I'll tell you why people aren't doing it it's because

you like to say one thing back on that today's debate is fiery to say the

least but important nonetheless as I sat down with two leading experts in wealth and Entrepreneurship and the economy to

discuss the state of the US the state of the UK and the Western World do you think the reason the average Brit

American are getting poorer is because they don't know how to create wealth no the reason people are getting poorer is

because of big governments record levels of taxes an outdated schooling system technology and remote working you sure

about that how do you disagree with those opinions living standards are falling because of growing wealth in equality if you allow the rich to get

richer they squeeze the middle class and the poor class out of things like housing let's cut tax on people who are working hard and let's raise tax on the

richest and most powerful people in the world that's an overly simplified view of things we now have a th000 millionaires a month leaving which means

every ordinary person who pays 10 grand a year in tax will now have to pay 20 grand a year in tax you end up cutting

off your nose to spite your face if we are a country that don't try and do things which are necessary because they

are hard then our kids will live in poverty what do you want people to do there's a lot of different ways Backle

up this has always blown my mind a little bit 53% of you that listen to the show regularly haven't yet subscribed to

the show so could I ask you for a favor before we start if you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us the free simple way that you

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you want me to speak to and we'll continue to do what we do thank you so much

Gary Daniel Daniel you've been on the show a few times before so I want to start with

Gary and understand a little bit about your backstory and who you are and having been through the trading game and

read and watched many many of your videos over time I have a a sort of deep understanding of that but for anyone that doesn't know you can you give me a

picture of the context that um has brought you to where you are today writing about the things you're writing

about today and running the YouTube channel and speaking to the subject matter that you're speaking about today take me right back and give me as much

as you possibly can okay so my name is Gary Stevenson uh I was born in a place

called ilford which is in outer East London quite a poor family little Terrace House by the railway you know

playing football in the streets kind of stuff um always very good at maths since I was

a kid very talented Master student eventually able to get into the London School of Economics which is an

extremely Elite University economics University in the center of London which

is basically a kind of investment banking boot camp got a job as a Trader

started working full-time as a short-term interest rates Trader at City Bank in London in June

2008 when I was 21 obviously yeah exactly that's just before the big credit crash the big Leman crisis and I

watched the Leman Crisis happen in front of my eyes I was um short-term interest rate trading is basically like

short-term loans and during the credit crisis what credit crisis is is nobody can borrow any money so like short-term

loans become really really important important my desk which was like historically an unfashionable area of trading became like the center of the

crisis or one of the centers of the crisis people started making tons of money um I was working with all these

crazy people and you can imagine me like I turn up 21 years old and then like within three months like everyone around

me is making a ton of money during the credit crisis but what really interested me was what happened after the crisis

itself which was so we're betting on interest rates long story short interest rates

come down when the economy is weak and they go up when the economy is strong or when the economy is overheating from an

inflation perspective in 2018 all the interest rates go to zero so suddenly

our job is basically predicting and betting on when will those interest rates go back up which is when will the

economy recover and this is super interesting right in 2008 because all the interest rates went

to zero so quickly like before 2008 it's important to remember rates would move from like five and a half to five and a quarter and then here in 2008 everywhere

in the world slashing to zero Bo half a percent exactly and everybody all the economists were like wow this is going

to cause a massive recovery because they thought that interest rates were powerful and everybody predicted that

rates would come back up in 2009 which of course we knowed they didn't then everybody predicted that rates would go

up in 2010 which we now know they didn't and then at the beginning of 2011

everybody was predicting rates would definitely go up this year and this to me was so interesting so interesting

because you know I studied master and economics at one of the best economics universities in the world and now I'm

working with these traders who are getting paid millions of pounds a year million pounds a year to predict the economy to predict the interest rates

and everybody is wrong year after year after year and this

was I was so amazing to me for a couple of reasons first of all it's like wow like this is a big thing that we as a

society should understand and like we're getting it wrong but secondly if all of the best guys in the world are

getting this wrong then if I can figure this out I can make a ton of money here

G how much money did you make for City Bank at the age of 24 years old that

year so that year 2011 I put this big bet on that it would get worse forever

and I was City bank's most profitable Trader in the world that year and I made them just over $ 35 million you made

them $35 million you eventually decide to leave City Bank yeah why

I mean I think that's an interesting question right you know in the sense that I've just explained to you what

happened which is I made a ton of money by betting on the collapse of Western

Society uh I did it in 2011 I did it again in 2012

um I would prefer for it not to collapse step and I'm trying to stop it from

collapsing when you say it collapsing what exactly you're referring to that you you don't want to

collapse so you you born in Botswana right yeah do you still have family there um I've got family in Nigeria

which is where my my family are from I was born in Botswana because we were visiting there but got family in Africa do you go to Nigeria much no I I've got

home in Cape Town in South Africa so I see the it's a great place if you want to see inequality I think there

is a naivity in in in this country in places like the US that the kind of

inequality the kind of broad poverty that you see in places like South Africa

in places like Nigeria in places like India can't happen here it will happen here that is the

future of this country that is the future of the US and I'm not just saying that I'm betting on it and I've been betting on it for 15 years and I've been

right for 15 years that is what I'm trying to avoid Daniel where did you come from yeah so I

grew up in Australia um and I was born to low-income family I grew up in a

place that had 24% Unemployment uh pretty much the only jobs or opportunities around me were things like

uh the trades building construction Pest Control um hospitality and tourism um so

uh at 14 I got a job at McDonald's and then I'm got a job in a bar and Pizza Hut delivery driving and I discover

entrepreneurship so I discover books about entrepreneurship and I discovered that some people make millions similar to yourself you saw Canary WF I read a

book about business ownership and as we sit here today can you give me the overview of your business success since

then yeah so I now have a group of companies that I've either started or bought um there's I've just sold a

company so there's seven companies in the group um I've started a couple of software companies one of our companies

is now the fastest growing one of the fastest growing companies in the UK um we you know we're a software business uh

I've got a couple of agencies I've got a Education and Training business and where when you think about the UK and

broadly the Western world today what is your assessment of where we're at as a country and what's concerning you because Gary expressed quite

articulately that his big concern is that because of wealth INE equality we're going to end up in a similar position to the likes of India what are

you concerned about I agree that it wasn't that long ago that we had real serious wealth inequality in this

country there are amazing photos from like a 100 years ago of kids working in mines and kids doing oyster shocking and

all this horrible work and um you know there's a there's a book Charles Dickens wrot wrote called The Tale of Two Cities

and the opening line of the book is it was the best of times it was the worst of times and I think we've actually

gotten to that point here where some people in the UK it's the best of times if you uh like in your situation you're

you know you're booming you're a globally successful business um I've got a globally successful business and then

there are a lot of people who completely cannot relate to this their you know Energy prices are now the most expensive

in the Western World house prices are completely unaffordable it used to be used to take 3 years to for a deposit

it's now 20 years if you you know theoretically 20 years if you can save for a deposit food prices are through

the roof so we're we're in a really diff like for anyone who is not tapped into digital economy fast growth and all of

that sort of stuff life is getting harder and worse um and things are collapsing um if you if you would um go

with that the there is a predictable path countries go on and there's this

thing called the economic freedom index and the economic freedom index basically says how economically free are you how

how much access do you have to free markets um do can you start a business can you scale a business um does

anything inhibit your ability to run your own life countries that have high degrees of economic freedom have very

low poverty they have widespread affluence and countries that have low economic freedoms have high poverty and

it can be the difference between less than 10% right up to 70% poverty rates

um and when countries go on a path towards economic freedom poverty just drops so India for examp example has

been on that path and they announced today that they've almost eradicated uh abject poverty or extreme poverty um the

UK went on that path of low economic freedom to high economic freedom and we saw poverty rates come right down but in

2008 when the global financial crisis happened one of the things that happened is the government said we need to step

in and we need to take charge and everyone said please do um so they came in and they said all right we're going

to ramp up debt ramp up taxes uh to pay for the debt and we're also going to put it all regul in and unfortunately that

starts to reduce economic freedom then the pandemic happens and they say oh we're going to spend more money again

through debt we're going to have more uh taxes more regulations less economic freedom so the UK we went from an 82

when I arrived in 2006 went from 82 out of 100 down to 68 out of 100 so we're less economically free and predictably

what we will always see happen if you lower people's economic freedom more

poverty uh less affluence uh the Millionaires and the wealth creators leave uh the

people who are stuck in um dead end jobs uh or no jobs get incredibly frustrated

everyone starts looking for someone to blame people are angry and they're like who do we blame and who do they blame

it's very different because in the US we blame us blam someone different to the UK so we have a historical cultural

memory in the UK we have a cultural memory that the people to blame are the rich so so uh we have landlords and uh

aristocracy and the landed gentry those guys are to blame right so blame the rich is what we say in the UK in the US

they have a very different view their cultural memory is that they're anti-government they want limited government in 2023 there was this song

that came out called uh rich men north of uh Richmond and it was the number one song in America and the lyrics of the

song basically says people in Washington do not care about working people um they ATT taxing everything we touch you can't

earn money they depreciate the dollar um they tax tax tax tax tax and they want to control Our Lives those are the

lyrics of the songs controlling our lives and taxing us so the American uh

reaction to this is who's to blame government so we want smaller government we want a department of government

efficiency to come in we want someone as a wrecking ball who will come in and smash government the British instinct is

hate the rich it must be the Rich's fault so when we look for like all all of the Western countries that

implemented lower economic freedoms created more poverty less

affluence and more disruption to their economies so both us and UK for example

and Australia as well but both sides of the pond want someone to blame it's just

that the Americans blame government and we blame the rich Gary I'm sure you you have a lot to to say there I know you

both use the word collapsing so you agree that there's a problem here but I think you from studying both of your

sort of perspectives you think that this the solution and the cause of the

problem is different I mean I put bets on I put bets on I put bet that's what I do I put bets on um at the beginning of

covid we knew the government was going to give enormous amount of money out um total amount of money now UK government

deficit since the beginning of Co is is1 trillion pounds US number is $4

trillion that's you know £20,000 per UK adult

my background is I understand that when the distribution gets worse when inequality gets worse living standards

full so when when the UK government was going to give a trillion pounds out all I wanted to know was who's going to end

up with that money that's all I wanted to know and um I mean the US number 13 trillion 14 trillion is just outlandish

but I think the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my whole life was that at the beginning of Co the

very beginning of Co we knew governments across the world we're going to be giving out tens of trillions of pounds

dollars Euros nobody even thought to ask who's

going to get tens of trillions richer nobody in the conservatives nobody in labor nobody in the Republicans nobody

in Democrats nobody in the media nobody in Academia nobody the central banks nobody asked this it's

it's it's it's almost beautiful it's it's unbelievable it's unbeliev so I I sat down and I did I did the analysis at

the beginning because lockdown is essentially Banning the spending of the rich and replacing that spending of the rich

with printed money from government what happens is the government gives workers money they use that money to pay their

bills to pay their rent pay their mortgage it goes to the rich the rich can't spend it because they're locked indoors and what you get is essentially

an enormous amount of money from the government to the poor to the rich and this massive massive transfer of wealth

um that was obviously going that was so obviously going to happen at the beginning of Co nobody discussed it

which I think is itself amazing let me ask you a question right if we were now to pause the economy for

2 years and during that pause massively increase wealth inequality what do you

think would happen to Broad living conditions when we unpaused see one of the things that I

think happened during the pandemic is everything went digital and um

entrepreneurs and investors did actually think about what would happen the investors immediately boomed stocks like

zoom and uh Microsoft and we ended up with the Magnificent 7 um I don't know

if you you know there's seven big tech companies in the USA market and those big seven companies have gone from five

trillion valuation to 17 TR trillion valuation uh in the time of the pandemic

and if you think about what did the pandemic do uh everyone had to work from home so we all had to have Microsoft

subscriptions everyone went onto website so we all went to AWS uh Amazon we all started buying and learning how to buy

from Amazon rather than buying from from our local high streets every business in the world figured out how to run their business remotely uh we had this massive

transformation it wasn't it was like it's actually a wholesale transformation of society that we all learned how to

live and work differently um I saw a boom in entrepreneurship so what I saw as an entrepreneur accelerator um

someone who runs an entrepreneur accelerator is just there was this sudden boom in people launching

businesses uh setting up Shopify accounts setting up YouTube uh businesses so the money really has moved

from the traditional economy the 2019 High Street economy over to the digital

economy and what we see is that the investors know what's going on and they just invest in This Magnificent Seven

company I think 50% of the gains of the S&P 500 is tech companies um so all the money just goes flooding into the the

technology companies my my belief is that technolog is really dividing people that essentially if you take anyone from

any background if they work in technology uh if they're in Media Tech Finance any of that stuff that operates

online they tend to actually do pretty pretty well after the pandemic I ask you a question yeah go for do you think the

average Brit American Australian whoever the person out there is watching if they quit their job and go work in Tech do

you think they'll be able to get Financial Security relatively easily depends when you defi Define

Financial Security the issue with house prices the ability to raise a family have a home yeah so having a home is a

big issue right so here's here's what I here's what I see with houses cuz houses annoy me as well my dad bought a house

for $188,000 which is about £10,000 or less than £10,000 and it's probably worth over a million dollars um uh today so

something went wrong and and this by the way is not UK specific uh the socialist countries had house prices go through

the roof if you go to Norway or Sweden their house prices grew by 600% uh in then it's happening everywhere it's not

specific to anywhere it's happening everywhere but but what happened what what has definitely in the UK is we actually have um a housing traffic jam

so in this country in the UK we have 9.5 million homes that have two or more

spare bedrooms big family homes have two or more spare bedrooms and when you look into who owns those houses 78% of

housing wealth is Baby Boomers um and now anecdotally I take my kids trick-or-treating at uh Halloween and we

go down a street that is big family homes and you go knock on the doors and it's all people over 65 right and living

in a big family home with empty spare bedrooms we you think the average American over 65 is living luxuriously

the average American over 65 so more than half of the US economy is in the hands of baby boomers right so they own

all the houses the the houses got bought up cheap baby boomers still own those houses to this day the big family homes

with multiple spare bedrooms are empty um and now that creates this traffic jam

people my age my grandparents yeah they all owned property

all four of them died with nothing um because that wealth which

they had in in property was was used in equity release schemes they they it was

used in paying through their retirement it was used in End of Life Care um do

you think when those old people die young people today will be rich there is half the economy held by baby burus it's

either going to be passed down or passed into the age care industry or passed

into the but the issue of why we can't get homes two things government

massively inflated the value of homes through debt so they just in injected like low interest rates that you

involved in who who is the debt to well the debt is to anyone who can take out Al loan because if a 0% interest rates

or 2% interest R you think it's the debt is the ordinary families do you think ordinary families are the creditors when you say ordinary families you mean

bottom third so if your average British or American family now has half a million pounds of debt crit it's anyone

who could get their at that particular time anyone who could get their hands on a loan to buy a house but who has the

credit who has who is on the other side of the debt so if the average British family million P banking license does

the average British family have half million pound of credit well a lot of people have got a lot of equity in their home now you think the average British

family is sitting on half a million pound cash I'd love to look at the what the actual number is but it's a couple hundred thousand worth of equity 78 what

about the credit on the line credit on the line owns the credit on the line in mind it's disproportionately older people so

think the average British old person is sitting on million millions of pounds of cash not millions of cash no equity well

someone is on the other side of just one say the difference the difference is if you inflate the value of a house you don't have cash you have a house that's

worth a lot of money so 78% of home ownership wealth is in the hands of people over 65 now it's baby boomer

generation and they got a great gift from the government which is the government said we're going to just give

free loans away if someone previously could have only afforded to take out a 200 Grand loan with low interest rates

they can afford a 300 Grand L do you think it's okay that the average British or American young person will never own

any wealth the issue is not whether it's okay or not the issue is what do you do about it I do you own wealth I've got

wealth yeah you own wealth but depends what you call Wealth I do so do we three multimillionaires do we think it's okay

that the average Brit or American young person will never own any wealth that to me that's because I don't think that's okay to me that's not the debate is it

okay it's not well it it's not okay no we want widespread would you rather that

the people who currently are multi-millionaires would you rather that all of the world was owned by their kids

I think that the way you see the world as a Trader is that the world is a zero sum game and that there's basically the

pi is a fixed pi and it gets sliced up how fast is the growing now there's something like this what's UK GDP growth

at the moment yeah it's not it's not high right 1% how much did your wealth grow in the last year uh exponentially

okay so if our weals my wealth probably grew about 20% in the last year maybe 30 okay okay if our worlds are growing 30%

and the economy is growing at 1% where is it coming from if it's not coming from our viewers so I'll tell you where

my wealth comes from my wealth comes from building technology companies and the way it works is pretty weird which

is that I invent something out of my head and I go to investors and I say to

the investors here's what we're going to create and I give them a spreadsheet and then they say we'll give you a couple

hundred grand to get started which is called seed Capital but on paper makes me worth a couple of million right but

there there's nothing has been taken from anyone at this point uh the investors have said okay we'll invest

some money then as the business succeeds some more investors come along and they say we'll give you a little bit more money to keep growing it um and I'm

innovating something new and let's say investors come in and give me a million pounds and for 10% of the company and

the rest of the company's worth 9 million or $9 million right so I'm not stealing something from the existing

economy I'm bringing something from outside of the economy into the economy um and my quote unquote net worth is

growing exponentially because investors say we'll give you a little bit of money

that values the rest of the pie at a lot of money but there's everyone's getting richer in the in the wealth create

there's where there's wealth extraction which is what Traders do they extract from the existing economy um and they

bet on uh the economy and then there's wealth creation which what entrepreneurs do they come up with new ideas better

ways of doing things and they build wealth so do you think the reason our viewers the average Brit American are

getting poorer is because they don't know how to create wealth no the reason people are getting poorer is because

economic freedoms are being eroded when we have high economic that with taxes well anything that imp it could be

anything that impacts economic freedom so uh taxes and regulations are big was economic freedom higher in the 50s uh

50s was okay so 50s was a interesting time we we were in food Russians in this

country till uh 1956 so we had 10 years of food rations after the war um we had

a labor shortage uh because only really men worked women hadn't entered the workforce in Mass um there had been

three or 400,000 men killed in war so we actually had this big labor shortage the whole country needed to rebuild because

of the blitz had bombed it so we had this huge need for economic activity and not enough people to do it we only had

2% unemployment people who had had their blown off were put to work at that particular time so we had this boom this

postwar boom and we also had the postwar baby boom which drove consumption uh and then when we got to the 60s we had the

Roaring 60s or the um The Swinging 60s right pretty amazing time in Britain and

Along Comes high taxes uh and they put up the taxes massively at the end of the

60s um and it pretty much crashed the economy one of the things that happened so what were the tax rates in the 50s

well they went up as high as 80 to 90% uh for the top for the top ear I think it was in the 60s you sure about that I

think the 50s are unique what is the answer feel like you they went up off the wall they went up after the war well in the US actually tax rates started got

before the war but also the size of government as a percentage of GDP was like 30% it was a tiny like we're we're

now 45% of the UK economy is government spending we have got a mass who funds

that spending debt they the bank of England allows them to print endless amounts of debt which deflates Gary I

want to get your opinion here cuz you're asking a lot of questions but I actually don't know your opinion I just want to know what Daniel thinks and I want our

viewers to be able to research Daniel's opinions but how how do you disagree with those opinions listen Daniel's a

businessman he's obviously a very successful businessman you know I I've not been any I'm not a businessman I'm not going to pretend to be a businessman

I'm an economist I make money by being right on the economy Daniel's a good businessman and I'm right on the economy

you know it's a simple as that basically you know I'm not a good businessman but I've got 15 years of being right on this on the economy and look and I know

you're probably a wealthy man you probably don't want to pay high taxes you probably don't want your kids to pay high taxes but we exist in an economy

where wealth is being extracted out of the middle class out of the working class very very rapidly it's benefiting

people like the three of us at this table it will benefit our kids you know our kids will be rich their kids will be

poor and I just think we should be honest with them capitalism's finished we won well done Stephen well done

Daniel well done Gary it's over now our kids will be rich their kids will be poor they'll pay the tax taxes we won't

pay the taxes we'll avoid it I'll make money betting on it year after year why are we lying to them why are we lying to

them yeah I I think that's an overly simplified view of things I don't an overly simplified view of things that has made me a multimillionaire yeah well

look entrepreneurs take bets on the economy as well we take bets differently um when we start a company we're betting

on how the econ the average British and American worker at the 50th percentile

do you think their kids will be richer than they are it depends if we have economic freedom or not right we're

going to have a split test on this right we're going to have a split test we're going to have the UK seems like we're

going to have more taxes more regulations and it seems like the us is going to have less taxes and less

regulations here's what I've noticed I've noticed that places like Singapore that have small governments um have got

widespread affluence there's not a lot of poverty in Singapore yeah except for the cleaners living in the closets yeah you know uh look but we don't count them

in the statistics just like we don't count our viewers that that's not widespread in well there's a lot of

people W I've seen them in the closets I've seen them in the closets there are there are some but they're not

singaporeans well also you only count the rich ones look the the also the

issue is is that they've come from even worse conditions in many cases people mve to Singapore for an increase in

lifestyle right the um you could take Ireland or Switzerland right

economically free places Ireland was economically in a disaster in think the average Irish person lives well well the

their economy their economy almost collapsed in 2011 and they went down the road of

lower taxes lower regulations and they attracted all sorts of businesses into the economy and do you think that works

well for the average Irishman who doesn't own a home in Dublin the the if you measure everything by Home Ownership

I'm measuring people by the average I want to know what the average man or woman today lives that by the way I I'm

also Furious about the home ownership thing everyone is um I think it's

utterly ridiculous the way like the idea that homes are now worth 10 times the average wage all of that difference is I

blame government for that uh I blame high taxes where they've because of high taxes they can take out more debt they

can then inflate the economy do you think if we shrink the government if we start to slash government spending do

you think that would improve living conditions well the UK government is 45% of the economy like that's a huge

government it's think using additions will increase in the next few years because we have US Government now that's

planning to slash the US government well that's what the US voters have asked for do you think it would improve living conditions uh do I think it'll improve

the average American if they're smaller government yeah I trust market so you think the average US American will be rich in years than the here what I trust

I trust economic freedom if people have freedom they create better decisions for their own life there's two ways to make

decisions right there's two ways you have freedom I got less freedom than I did when I ared just because my sister can't pay the rent is that freedom the

if you're living in a country she can't to live in the city that she was born in I I agree you and I agree on the problem

you keep bringing back to the problem I keep bringing it back to people because the people who watch We're millionaires okay the people who watch us are mostly

not millionaires is life going to get better for them they life will get better if

you are connected to the most productive parts of the economy um if you pretend that it's 1955 and you recreate the

postwar era conditions if you try to go back to 1955 I don't think that's going to work so so let me ask on that then

the point about if you're connected to the most productive parts of the economy I was quite um quite surprised when I

was doing some research on this to find that there's quite big differences between the UK and the US in terms of GDP growth in Q4 2024 the US economy

grew by 6% while the UK growth was 0.1% so they're doing significantly better in

that regard US GDP per head stands at $82,000 per head whereas the UK stands

at $49,000 per head and stock market performance which is an indication of I guess what ever Rose by 300% in the US

whereas the footsy 100 declined by 20% Which is the UK stock market productivity growth since 2018

productivity increased by 30% in the United States which has outpaced the the UK and lastly income growth since 2007

American income per head has increased by 72% while it has decreased in by 2%

in the UK in dollar terms so they seem to be doing better from if you just look at the economy um why is that is that

because they lean more into technology and Innovation and Entrepreneurship and is it because of the things you were saying earlier about their attitude

towards the Govern like reduced government spending versus tax the rich why I'm Keen to hear Gary's view on this

because I understand yours because you've just said it yeah I think these are great statistics um and of course

the US has a strong reput reputation for being very free markets and being very

small states in the last 5 years 10 years 15 years we've had a UK government that has been

aggressively slashing the state and the US State's bigger than ever it's 45% of the economy and the us we had a

government in the last four years which has been running a massive massive deficit so in that period of

time it appears the government which has been aggressively increasing its deficit

has massively overperformed the government which has been aggressively slashing the state that's what it looks to be from

the last I mean b Joe Biden in enormously increased the deficit enormously and the conservatives were austerity government for 14 years which

one seems to have given the better numbers well I mean there were austerity in name only they went from 30% uh the

state was 30% of GDP to 45% of government services haveed now they're

the government is terrible at doing most things that's the problem you you you don't want you don't think that spending

on government service has been slashed let me let me zoom out a little you think the police spending has been slashed OH police spending is definitely

do you know where it ends up it ends up with like big corporates uh big Consulting who get paid $50 million to

produce a report to tell government some thing right all of these big I won't name names but all the big consulting

firms they're all blood suckers to government they they know that the money is in the government and they set up

business models to extract that money from government uh and it also is in the financial trading side of things the one

of the issues that we've got right and this is a big big issue as well cuz you care about wealth inequality one of the biggest issues I see is that during the

pandemic we all learned to work remotely and remotor became the norm and what I see at the moment is huge amounts of

what would have been normal British jobs are going to the Philippines going to India going to uh Vietnam people who

work remotely now we now have a thousand millionaires a month leaving to go to

Dubai we have 120,000 British people living in Dubai uh in in that economy

the world's become incredibly mobile and one of the things that's happening is

that what would have previously been good British jobs uh are getting moved overseas to lower cost countries and

that's technology that drives that wedge the US is very smart in that they've built a technology Powerhouse and the UK

has completely lost our technology industry our tech industry is in Decline same same across Europe China and the us

know that the game is Tech and they've basically pulling all the tech company into the into their uh borders and

what's happening a lot is the erosion of good jobs and the erosion of of just normal well-paying uh jobs because they

they're going and it's a bit of a self-fulfilling Loop that the more we lose millionaires the tax burden falls

on everyone else so they put the taxes up and then the millionaires say oh the taxes are too high so they leave um I've

watched some of the most incredible entrepreneurs that you would want here that would employ your sister at a high rate um and they've picked up and left

cuz the taxes are too high so you saying we should tax working people less well the the the overall government has to be

smaller uh you can't whoever what do you want to cut in the government if you uh

yeah I mean you'd have to Child Services we'd have to no police no education NHS

all I know is this pensions you go to Switzerland they SP single mothers 25% disabled benefits what do you want to

cut hold up all I know is in Switzerland I tell you what I want the government is TA on those entrepreneurs and raise the

taxes on the billionaires because I worked my tits off how many billionaires are in the UK there's a lot of

billionaires in the UK 150 yeah so tax them more what do they pay listen I went my tits off and I paid it was 50% top

rate tax 50% top rate tax plus National Insurance 60% million to bring my family out of poverty at the same time the Duke

of Westminster inherited 10 billion and paid nothing do you think that's fair that's not true okay why is it not true

because the Duke of Westminster is one of the highest tax payers in the country what does he pay well on the trust the

groer estate uh they don't pay inheritance tax because trusts can't die they pay something called periodic taxes

which how much 6% every 10 years 6% so they pay 0.6% so I paid 16% and this guy

pays 0.6% apples with apples inheritance tax is 40% across the course of your life if a trust is uh if a person lives

who owns a trust for 70 years then 6% time 7 would be 42 so they actually pay

more so he pays 0.6% a year Pro 0.6% that would be the same as what percent

did I pay per no no no but that's 60% so you're saying I pay what 60 of a 0.6

what 100 times the tax not comparing apples with apples wait why is it not apples with apples this guy pays 0.6% a

year I paid 60% a year that's inheritance tax I paid that 60% every year Daniel every year I paid you're pay

income tax so why have I du P more than the Duke of Westminster pays income tax

he probably he probably makes your bill blush yeah think can pay his income tax yeah well if he's going to live he has

to withdraw money to have his income he also let me give you a list of all the taxes he would pay he'd pay income tax

corporate tax he'd pay stamp Duty when he buys a building he pays uh uh any of the other taxes vat when he spends money

all the same taxes apply to a duuk as they apply to anybody else so you think he pays income tax on on the income on that any income he draws okay well our

viewers can research whether he pays income tax on his income because I don't think he does it's in a trust but the only difference

with the trust versus income is that the trust pays periodic tax versus

inheritance tax 0.6% but we're only talking inherit that that's just one type of tax you think he's paying 60% on

his income he's one of the highest taxpayers in the UK I'm not like his big fan club but the truth is he's one of the highest taxpayers in the UK um he's

one of the biggest Employers in the UK he's one of the like one of the biggest land owners in the UK land owners in the UK right uh so uh the the issue is is

does he pay tax all the same taxes that apply to you apply to him uh and if you want to set up a trust you can also pay

periodic taxes as well um which would be on top of all the other taxes so what would you say but it's just not true

that he doesn't pay tax no what would you say this guy has inherit 1010 million P so he's worth 10 billion PS

what would you say will be the total amount of tax he will pay in his lifetime well I know that just the smallest if I make 10 million I pay 60%

just one sec you're not you're talking about income versus the transfer of an

estate so why why is it that the be 10 million P just you're comparing your

income yeah versus the amount he inherited which is not a fair thing that's not income that's his income he

inheritance is not income so wait wait wait wait wait wa so if I get given1 billion I don't pay any tax but if I

work for10 billion I pay 60% well if you inherit this is the tax system that you want you'll end up in a system where the

kids of the richual own everything that's what I'm saying that's what I'm saying and that's fun because that's our kids you're not telling the truth about

his let's support it let's have a tax system where your kids and my kids and Steven's kids are multimillionaires and

these guys out there can't afford to feed their kids and put the heat in that's not what I'm saying but that's what you will get that is what you will

get that's listen that's what I'm betting on that's fine because I'll make money in the markets it's fine and you'll make money and you'll make money

it's our viewers who will be poor and that's fine that's fine that's fine for us let's let's explore the other alternative right so let's say tax the

rich right so let's play the game of tax the rich tax the owners not the workers the owners

so the issue that we have with the rich is that is the number one most valuable

Assets in the economy now in tangible assets so there's this chart called the S&P 500 of the 500 richest countries in

the country uh in the world in the US sorry um in 1970s 75% of the value of the S&P 500

was physical assets like property um and today it's less than 10% uh it's closer to 5% you think that housing is not

particularly important just just let's stick stick with what I'm saying okay the the the PowerHouse the engine room

of the economy is digital assets and that's reflected in uh the S&P 500 for

example which is 95% intangible assets one of the issues that we have is that the richest people are completely mobile

now so they can be absolutely anywhere in the world so if you come up with this idea of let's tax richest people 1% if a

tiny proportion of them leave we're all in trouble so this really rich guys

M what do they own companies and why are those companies worth money because

investors say they are and where do the revenues come from globally okay the issue is is that these companies operate

globally now so take my company for example my company has 8,000 customers

in 150 countries okay we could be anywhere if you P what country is your biggest single Revenue Source probably

the US now let's say you move to Cayman Island and the US says we're going to

tax your Revenue at point of sale M what can you do well that's different right

because that's not taxing billionaires that's taxing companies see when you say tax the rich

on their wealth yeah that's different to saying tax companies a consumption tax oh but you just said the're Rich owned

companies you said that's what they own yeah but you're saying how do you tax them right so do they do you tax their wealth which is what they own or do you

tax the companies where they trade um typically consumption taxes get passed on to Consumers it's not consumption tax

it's the tax on the ownership yeah but if you simply say when you're doing revenues then that's a consumption we

start to tax if we start to taxit by the way I'm not exactly against you on on

companies I think it's disgusting that a British company can can take out a

Facebook ad to sell to a British consumer a British product and Facebook

pretends to be in Ireland on that transaction um and Amazon you can buy something on Amazon in Britain from a

British supplier from a British warehouse and Amazon pretends to be in Luxembourg in that situation and that

sucks right like that that does not seem fair and it strikes me as very strange that the government is okay with that

right now the government is chasing down moms and dads who sell a few things on eBay uh and chasing them for taxes but

they don't talk to eBay uh they they they're paranoid about someone doing a little bit of a side hustle on Facebook

but Facebook's fine to pretend to be an Ireland so I don't agree with all of all of that right like I think where missing

some serious tricks here but the idea with taxing billionaires at wealth

billionaires will just leave they just get up and leave and and not just billionaires but what the billionaires own what the billionaires own companies

and where do companies get their money from revenues and where do the revenues come from purchasing people purchasing

where do those people live all over the world we can tax them at that point that's consumption tax this is the thing

that's a consumption tax no it's not it's V is a tax on Revenue tax these guys on profits based on where the

revenues come from so it's very easy to move profits internationally see Steven had a uh Starbucks cup when he buys that

Starbucks yeah it's bought from a British company who licenses the Starbucks logo from Luxembourg or

somewhere like that so 15% so here we are saying oh we're going to tax their profits they say ah I wish we were

profitable sorry unfortunately we had to do that licensing deal with that International I know how profit shifting

works okay so are you you think are you telling me compan selling to the UK the US

enormous amount of of profit in the US and they turn around and say actually our profit is not in the US the difference you think the US is in is is

incapable of going and looking if that's seeing where they really where the profit is I'm not saying that you can't do this I'm saying that the benefits of

doing it it's so hard to tax wealth for example or it's so hard to tax uh

Millionaires and billionaires that that you end up cutting off your nose despite your face um for every like if we

Britain for example and we build a brand which is that we're anti- wealth we don't want you to ever have more than 10

million if you've got more than 10 million we punish you every young entrepreneur who comes to me and says dan do you think I should start a

company here in this country I'm going to say well if you do uh they'll take it

as soon as you start to make it they'll take it as soon as if you're successful if you get investment they're going to tax you at your wealth if you sell the

company they're going to take it off you I'm going to basically say to that young entrepreneur don't build your business

in brit go start it somewhere that they're more proactive and positive towards entrepreneurs are we seeing that

now with this they call it the millionaire Exodus which is for people that don't know the UK has set to lose

the greatest proportion of millionaires in the world um this Parliament I'll put a graph on the screen which is this one

here this one here and that little red line here is US losing all of our

millionaires at the moment and in 2024 it's an estimated that 10,800 high net

worth individuals left the UK which is 57% increase from the previous year

which means that 1 millionaire is departing every 45 minutes the UK millionaire Exodus is equal to losing

530,000 average taxpayers and another stat the top 10% of earners in the US

account for nearly half of all consumer spending the top 1% of income taxpayers in the UK are projected to contribute

about 30% of total income tax from 2024 to 2025 why are all these millionaires

running away well it's not because they're taxing their world because we don't have any wealth taxes why why do you think they're leaving I think the

reason they're leaving is because the UK economy is is really really weak because the UK consumer is really really weak because you've absolutely crushed the

spending power of your average British family your average British family can barely afford to feed the kids and turn

the heating on so why are you going to start a business here when the customers are absolutely impoverished look it corresponds with a new tax that we

brought in which was um we ended the non-dom scheme so the non-dom scheme basically said if you're living in the

UK but you've got businesses all over the world uh then we only tax you on what you've got in the UK um and if you

die in the UK uh we'll only tax you on your UK assets for inheritance tax if you're a non-dom uh but if you die in

the UK and you've got uh wealth in India once that nonon scheme ended they

basically said we will tax you on everything globally if you're an economic uh if you're a tax resident in the UK everything you've got globally we

want 40% of it so unfortunately every wealth manager contacted their clients and said you can't stay here you're

going to have to get out um it's it's gotten really bad a th000 people a month are leaving and in the UK 1% of people

pay 30% of the taxes 10% of people pay 60% of the taxes and you imagine if

we're sitting out at dinner and there's 10 of us out to dinner and one person says hey I've got this I get I'll get

60% of the bill tonight we say to them no it should be 70% should be 80% and

they say you know what I'll get up and leave so they leave everyone else's bill just doubled so what's going to happen

is if we drive the millionaires out of this country everyone every ordinary normal person who pays 10 grand a year

in tax will now have to pay 20 grand a year in tax so the reason they left because we used to allow them to not pay tax and we Ta on their Global incomes on

their Global isn't it a bit more like if we were 10 of us at dinner and there was one guy who came on to dinner on the

condition he wouldn't pay their leaves because these guys weren't paying tax anyway the reason they left is because they weren't paying tax it's like saying

um it's like saying hey I'll pay 60% of this table and they say at the table hey wait a second we also want you to pay

for everything that's happening at other restaurants as well isn't it a bit more like these guys we're stretching on a

condition you you yourself said the reason why they left is because we let them live here on the condition that

they didn't have to pay taxes on their Global yeah taxes matter right so why why is everyone going to Dubai Dubai

they're going there because there's no tax these guys they live in Dubai their money comes from the West they are

making money from the West while your average Western ordinary person watching this show now cannot afford to buy a

house cannot afford to have a family we can tax those revenues at the point of sale why do we allow these it's a called

a consumption tax no it's not it's a tax on tax on profit not tax on consumption you just said at point of sale which

means it's a consumption tax based on the profits you look at how much profit they where the profits exactly it's not

consumption tax what I'm saying so no so if you tax profits yeah right then those

profits have to accumulate in that country and because of the digital ecosystem that we now have the world we

now live in I can lease the database off of my company in Luxembourg I can uh

license the I can license my logo from understand how profit shifting listen these guys are not

gandal you just say we don't accept profit shifting we don't need to accept profit shifting China does not accept

profit shifting we did not accept profit shifting 50 years ago we do not have to accept profit shifting but you have a

government class who are extremely wealthy and a media class are extremely wealthy saying it's impossible to tax rich people and I would like to say I

will agree 100% it is difficult to tax rich people it is very very very

difficult to tax rich people I don't I don't come here saying I want to tax rich people because it's easy I know

it's hard I know probably I'm going to lose I know our viewers kids will live in Desperate poverty I know that I do

this because it is hard if we are a country which says to ourselves we don't try and do things which are necessary to

keep our kids out of poverty because they are hard then our kids will live in poverty I don't need to be here I'm a

multimillionaire just like you I could be in the Philippines drinking panac laders I come in here because I come from a poor background and it's ordinary

families like my family like the kids I grew up with whose kids are going to be in poverty it's difficult but it is

necessary sometimes we have to do things not because they're easy but because

they are hard that is what makes a rich country rich and that is what protects

ordinary people listen our grandparents lived in poverty did they say let's not change it because it's hard no they

didn't they fought and they demanded they demanded Health Care education housing food and they got it they got it

that's why my parents could live a good quality life they got those things they got those things and they were aware

that in order to do that you could not allow the super rich who have been living lives of luxury for hundreds and

hundreds of years to eat everything while ordinary families couldn't afford to feed their kids I know it's difficult

I know it's difficult and I know I'm probably going to lose I know that I know I'm probably going to lose and that means our viewers will be poor but I do

it anyway because I do not want this country that I grew up in to fall into desperate poverty I agree with you on

the passion and I agree with you on the problem I don't agree with you on the solution because in 2019 we be kids in

2020 and that's not what I'm saying in 2020 we made a decision globally to shut

down the economy and we taught everyone that they can live and work from anywhere the biggest threat to everything you're saying is remote

working the fact that we can live and work work from anywhere our grandparents their boss if their boss owned a company

that company had to physically be in the country and the boss had to physically be in the country if we look at today

there are plenty of fitness trainers who work for a gym and the owner of that gym is somewhere overseas plenty of people

work in live work in a restaurant and the owner of the restaurant lives overseas you can live in you can run a business from anywhere in the world

right now so the problem that we face is that you're describing on one hand you

say we need to tax it at the point of sale which is a consumption tax and not tax on profit okay and then you say a

tax on profit and then you say oh but then we'll stop profit shifting by the way I'm also actually all for this idea

of stopping profit I I've already said I think it's utterly ridiculous the way

that many of these global companies are treated and if we don't stop that then all the money just flows out to the tech

companies um so I'm I'm with you on that but when you say tax the rich the actual

people who own the companies those people can be anywhere right now so but but their revenues can't their customers

their customers are where their customers are their customers are where their customers are listen Amazon

doesn't pay any UK tax doesn't pay any us tax where are the customers in the UK and Us in UK US do you really think it's

impossible for us to tax that well you're talking about taxing people at 10 million plus right so this is a lot of

startup entrepreneurs Jeff Bez is a lot more than 10 million jez Jeff worth a lot more than you talk about anyone

above 10 million is on your radar you don't want people worth 11 million pounds we pay more I'm not just talk

it's not that Dan if you you you're worth more than 10 million pounds so if we tax people

on as Gary says that have more than 10 million what are your options to avoid say if your objective was to avoid that

what options do you have look if if my objective was to avoid it I pass a board resolution that we're moving the head

office somewhere else yeah um we move the intellectual property somewhere else I pick up and move my family somewhere

else and within about a week or two we've got a we work office somewhere else I've got a new house on Airbnb

somewhere else and I cut ties with the UK and I'm non- tax resident here and I

can I have a digital business I can literally make my head office anywhere in the world if there was a particular

country that turned hostile towards uh our operations they not have to withdraw service from that thing you know so that

that's possible but it's unlikely that that would actually happen but ultimately if I choose to get up and

leave then I get up and leave now the the the bigger issue is would I have even come here in the first place and

then there's another issue and here's the other issue Gary for you you've just had 750,000 subscribers to your YouTube

channel 820 it's 8:20 right so it's going up fast I could have one of my

analysts at a consulting company do valuation of your brand and do valuation

of your YouTube channel we could say this is a fast growth media company and it's worth 11 million right so we could

come up with a forecast and a projection and we say Gary's economics is actually a new Fast growth media brand it's worth

11 million now your channel now you have to pay 100 Grand a year in extra taxes because you're a millionaire sorry 1% on

wealth above 10 million on 11 million is going to be 10 grand taxes oh you're saying only on the part above that's how

taxes work so it's not on everything it's okay so it's a it's a marginal tax that's how taxes work it's so okay so

but is it fair that like who gets to decide what wealth Is wealth and what it's worth because wealth let's just hit

me out wealth is a a technical term for unrealized gains right it's not real uh

you know someone buys a house for 20 grand and it's worth 200 Grand uh they've still got the same house but now

they've got wealth um if someone starts a business and a tiny little seed investor puts in a little angel

investment uh now they've got wealth on paper but who gets to say what is wealth

um like for example if you introduce wealth taxes theoretically that will actually reduce

the value of wealth of things anyway because things in inside that economy are now subject to a disadvantage so

therefore investors will be unlikely to invest in them to a certain point and also people start cutting and dodging

and weaving and ducking and weaving so they say oh our UK operations worth 10 million so we're now going to start a

second company over in some other country and make sure that that's where the wealth accumulates so it's

incredibly difficult because it is just unrealized gains I know I know it's difficult yeah I know I know these guys

have the best accountants I I know it's difficult I know so what if there was an easier solution if there was an easier

solution I would support that you know what I mean it's called it's called economic freedom the economic freedom index okay well just tell the viewers

that give them more economic freedom and then they'll be rich yeah so this this diagram here basically says the most free countries have less than 10%

poverty in fact less than 7% poverty as soon as you reduce economic freedom it jumps to 30% poverty you reduce economic

freedom again and it jumps up to huge huge amounts of poverty so the these countries here are the least

economically free and these countries are the most economically free the countries that get in the way of your economic freedom have more poverty and

the countries that let people make decisions for their own life what you're saying is if the governments of our

countries cut taxes on us the three multimillionaire sitting at this table that will improve the lives of the

ordinary British and American give a real life example to feed their kids I'll give you a real life example uh I know of a company that was going to give

pay Rises to its employees and then National Insurance went up and instead of National Insurance is a tax on employment yeah I'm saying to reduce

that I'm saying to reduce tax on I want your viewers the viewers here to be paying less tax while multimillionaires

pay more tax good in theory but of if you could tax rich people 1% of their

wealth above 10 million uh I did a back of a napkin cap calculation you might be able to get 20 billion yeah right that's

if they don't leave that's if they don't respond to it if they just happily pay it you get 20 billion that's less than a week worth of current government

spending so the government's out of control 1.2 trillion a year of government spending

is now what they spend okay so let's cut that get that 20 billion and cut the taxes for the viewers cut their income

tax so that works out about 250 a year okay so let's do more let's make it 60

billion so then you tax 3% above wealth yeah do that right and then you also bring it down this is what governments

do make five or six yeah and then and that's what they did that's what they did in the second world war and that's why my dad could afford a house actually

that's not why you could afford a house okay well who's buy if Ordinary People are losing their houses and the wealth

which they are yeah and we're getting richer yeah who is it who is now owning the houses if it is not us the

government used to own the houses and then they sold the government wealth is collapsing government wealth is collapsing but what they did is they

sold the houses to the people okay but but ordinary middle is also you can only do that once and they did it for the

baby so you think it's our viewers who have got my houses now who where is the wealth going Daniel where is the wealth

going who has the wealth now who is getting rich who is getting the wealth that is lost by our viewers I'll tell you where the biggest amounts of money

are going the biggest amounts of money uh since the pandemic uh 11 trillion

went just to the value of seven companies that own te technology so the biggest seven companies in the USA 11

trillion has and you don't want their billionaire owners to pay more tax well would that help the UK well if you use

that money to reduce tax on working people then it it would help yeah they own shares in the USA they're US

citizens so that doesn't help us here but it will help the American Consumer and then we can export the American

Consumer and it will mean the American Consumer has money and then it will show British people how much you can achieve by taxing Super Rich we can raise tax on

our Super Rich here and then what I want is these guys to be taxed so much that they start to sell assets and then

ordinary British people can buy assets again because what I want is our viewers to be able to own things to be able to

own their own homes I when I hear this um I admissibly don't know as much about these issues as you guys do but when I

hear that there's these seven tech companies in the US my brain goes can't we have one here yeah yeah can't we

start and then so my brain goes how what conditions do we have to create ones that we had yeah what conditions do we

have to create to have one of those seven tech companies here especially in this sort of AI World we're heading towards where when I was reading through

the stats most of the investment in AI which is going to be hugely destabilizing across every industry from

driving to to any form of knowledge work even podcasting I can play your podcast

now yeah which sounds exactly like me which has a 4.6 star rating on Apple which was written by AI in my voice

published by AI Wild and the and who's acing the value there well it's a company in America called 11 labs and

it's bloody open Ai and I why why can't we have those companies here we need

them here because China and the US are dominating this next Revolution um and I I worry as a

bystander that if we don't create entrepreneurship friendly environments here we're going to we are going to

become Indian yeah M so you if you want businesses that to thrive you don't need

just a good environment for entrepreneurs you also need people to have money that they can spend MH and we

are in a country where increasingly most of the people out there have almost nothing left over at

the end of the month they can barely pay the bills those companies are selling globally right so they don't need any particular company to do well they just

they sell to anywhere so like open AI chat GPT we're all using that Bloody product and pay our 20 $30 a month yeah

where do they actually get their money from right they get their money from selling data to to to the rich right my point was making the environment more

friendly for entrepreneurs because when I start a company I am at a I can't explain the disadvantage I'm at at the

moment if I start that kind of company here in the UK there's no investors and then all the talent seems to flock over

to San Francisco so the the guys that built the British guys that built an AI company called fixer which I was going

to invest in all British Lads from London they went over to San Francisco they're like 25y olds they've just

raised at a 60 million valuation they're in this room this building in San Francisco full of entrepreneurs and

they're pumping knowledge and capital into this room with all due respect Stephen you're not a great example for

the fact that it's impossible to start a successful online brand in the UK facts um but I also realized that the problem

of of but he started when things were different but I I also realized I don't like using personal examples because

there's a huge amount of privilege and okay is there a chat gbt in Germany No is there a chat gbt in in France no is

there a chat GPT in Australia no no is there a chat GPT in ja it's China and one sec SEC yeah exactly what you have

here is an extremely low labor extremely high Capital model which employs extremely few people across the entire

world that is focused in basically two cities yeah good luck competing with

that H how do we create an environment where the UK can start to build some of these companies which are going to capitalize on this next technological

Revolution how if you were prime minister what would you do I think you need to look realistically about what

companies do we have a chance of growing you know I'm not an expert in AI but I think trying to compete with San Francisco in London would will probably

not work why try try and do it you know try and do it and listen I know that you can get a lot of likes saying let's just

invest in AI let's just invest only one city in the world outside of China has Managed IT China has Managed IT by basically State capitalism you know this

is very similar in a sense to what we had with micro Electronics in Japan in the 8S right when you have a new industry especially these industries

which are very Capital intense and don't employ many people you get a first move Advantage they tend to win eventually

often they get undercut by cheaper Rivals and that does happen you know that does happen and you might stand in AI I don't think AI is going to become a

massive massive employer of course you know a lot of countries are going to be like because basically it sounds good

we're going to invest in I we're going to invest in AI personally I think we should be looking at what does the British person need you know we live in

a country where the housing stock is falling apart if if we say AI when we talk about AI I think we're actually

talking about technology because even a podcast like a podcast like this you don't think this of this as an AI

company but actually now the editing process the scripting process the transcription process even YouTube

itself is an AI company so it's it's really technology we're speaking about here and I'm wondering why we can't

create a better environment in the UK to start launching and building some of these technology companies we've even

seen I think we should and I think we should be looking we should be look at reducing taxes on people who who work

and make money this is what I've been saying for the whole time what about people what about people who start companies

yeah we should reduce their taxes on the income that they make but then if they start owning A50 million pound company are you telling me if you come to me and

I say all right you want to start a company we we tax you very very little on a company that you start if that company becomes worth 20 30 40 million

quid then we're going to start taxing you you're going to come and say to me oh no sorry 50 million is not enough for me so can I ask a question on that so um

my company was was valued at x 50 whatever 100 Millions um congratulations

I still had because I hadn't had an exit event yeah I still had 101,000 20,000 in

my bank account are you saying at the point when I sell the company or are you saying just because I have shares from

the company I think you can structure it a number of ways you can structure a number of ways my preferred way is to

stop people from hoarding enormous a of wealth for enormous amounts of time that's my that's basically my preferred

method there's also the wealth tax method there's also capital gains as a method there's a lot of different ways it there's a lot of different ways but

you have to deal with the problem of if you do not do not tax very wealthy individuals and very wealthy families

their share of the pie will obviously goow over time and they will and they are as we are watching squeezing our

ordinary families you have to deal with that my friend sold his company in the UK it's a company everybody knows um and

he I remember him saying to me at the time it was in the middle of the pandemic he got this big exit event I think he'd made 300 million and he goes

I'm off I go where you going he goes I'm going to go to Dubai in Monaco and live between the two and I I said explain to

me why he goes well the amount of tax I'd have to pay in the UK is equivalent to me paying 20 million rent in the UK

for the next six or seven years which he'd have to stay here for so he he went

and he pops back in every now and then but it meant that he could keep that 150 million whatever tax he would pay never

had to pay it to the UK is living this highflying life now in Dubai drops into Monaco every now and then um and I

remember him saying to me well Steve I'd have to pay 20 million rent a year to live here and he went on to say the UK

product is just isn't worth it he goes crime I'm going to get my Rolex robbed off me he goes um the healthare system

isn't the best the education system isn't necessarily the best and the particular one was crime which is I'll

get I'll get i'll get mugged walking through yeah London streets Stephen if you allow British people who own 300

million pound of British assets to technically live in Monaco and not pay tax then you will get crime and you will

have dirty streets and you will have a bad Health Care system and you will have education because if you give all of the wealth to a group of people who do not

tax there will be nothing left to provide things like healthcare and education for ordinary people it's not

unconnected these people are not technically living there they're moving out my friends have moved out of the country they don't come back to the UK

they've left and they leave with their they built a company here they glob P

tax they typically build globally business it's not that they P it was a global they don't pay no tax they pay

extortionate amounts of tax right anyone who's here is paying extraordinary taxes more than they've ever paid before 1%

pays 30% 10% pays 60% of 1 trillion a

year gu 300 million how much tax Rec he's paid in his life I have no idea I

have no idea his business was Global that his biggest customer was the US it's I pay 60% and our viewers will pay

30 40 50% do you think it's fair that your 300 million guy pays his two or three I have no idea what he pays well

it sounds like he didn't pay 50% well he dashed when before he got the tax bill but why did we allow it why did we allow

I I'm not allowed to not pay my tax what could you have done to you are allowed to when you were in Japan you wouldn't have paid UK taxes

yeah because I was working in Japan and I pay Japanese taxes because you're living in Japan this is the thing people can live wherever they want now so but

we're talking about this is I think we should stop obfuscating tax on people's

work from tax on the ass they uh so I'm talking about entrepreneurs work generates wealth so when if I if I ear a

billion pound of British houses yeah and then I say I live in Dubai yeah and I'm

getting the rent on a billion pounds of houses which would probably be something like like that's going to be something

like 50 million a year so I'm getting 60 50 60 million a year of rent from British people yeah and that gets paid

to me from British people yeah and I pay and I don't pay tax I live in Dubai do you think that's fair no all right so

let's change that let's let's make people pay tax on on their world regardless where they live yeah the

question would be though how would you tax people right and how would you actually structure it because regardless

of what you feel like is fair this is the thing it's not about fairness it's about what you can pragmatic and practically do in the modern economy you

might say oh I actually like for example if we said what's fair a lot of people would say a flat tax is fair you make

one pound you pay 20% you make a million pounds you pay 20% make 100 million pounds you pay 20% so a lot of people would say the fairest tax system would

just be a flat tax on everything right that would be a fair thing it's pragmatically can you do it is it

actually good for society should people be excluded from that so it's not about fairness it's about pragmatically what

can you get away with all right well pragmatically what we can get away with is desperate poverty for our viewers kids if you want to have can we zoom out

just a minute right I want to zoom out let's Zoom away from our viewers kids forget about them they're not I got I'm

a dad right I got three kids you're you are a multimillionaire dad you probably don't have the same problems as our

viewers do you know that do you know that kids born into the top have a 60% chance of dropping out of the top right

60% that's the number it's called persistence you can Google it um the persistence rates is actually only 40%

for the richest so which means 60% drop out in the second you think kids have a 60% chance of living in poverty POS not

poverty do you know what's interesting we're all trying to aim at the same goal I think here I'm not sure we are but

well that's fair that's fair maybe we're not I suspect some of us are maybe trying to protect our kids I want widespread affluence through the

technological Revolution that's happening and I don't want the people who create that to want to go somewhere

else so you agree with me that we should cut tax on wealth creators and raise tax on wealth

orders uh well broadly okay so let's do it let's cut on people who are making

let cut tax on people who are working hard creating a good product making a good income and let's raise tax on

people who are sitting there on 20 30 40 100 200 500 million pounds of assets

that they're going to give to their kids and they're going to use to dominate society and squeeze out the middle class so who's an example of someone who's

hoarding wealth she so his family owns a tech company

his wife's dad owns a tech compan which he will inherit and his kids will inherit his net worth that is quoted is

based upon his wife's but that company already exists yeah it's created now yeah it's worth billions but they they

have to reinvent that business every two years like it's a so you think that the reason you think that if R's

father-in-law stopped managing the company it would be valueless no I think it it it hires hundreds of thousands of

people and it's you know it's a big company I don't know a lot about that particular company but I know it's a tech company Steve Jobs died okay is

Apple valueless no let's not pretend that these creators are the sole reason these companies are are valuable sure

you know and what we're talking about in many cases you know I was a Trader okay

and I'm worth a millions of quid and you know now that is just assets I just own the assets I own the assets and that

will grow and it will grow and it will grow and it will grow and that will squeeze out and squeeze out and squeeze out and squeeze out our viewers and I'll

give that to my kids they don't even need to work they wouldn't even have even have to work they could just live on I could live on off the wealth is

that what you want do uh do you think there are any opportunities for people today like if you're born into a poor

family do you think it's possible that housing being and we can both agree

agree on that but do you think there are new opportunities that didn't exist for our parents or grandparents but they do

exist for people today I think the reality is for kids from poor backgrounds it is almost

impossible to realistically get even Financial Security never mind wealth but why do you think you could do it I could

do it he could do it but you don't think other people could do it well the first thing is I'm 38 now so I'm not not a kid

nowadays um listen I want every Mass competition I've ever been in you know what I mean since I was a little kid I didn't even have a desk in my house you

know I was one of the top students at LC and I still had to win my job by cheating in a card game you know that's

the world that we live in I don't think that's a very replicable strategy and it's very easy for People Like Us who've made money to say oh AR we did it aren't

we great go out and you know you've said that you think if young people go and work in Tech business they can get Financial Security if it was that easy

they'd all be doing it you know they're not idiots our viewers are not idiots they're trying trying they're trying they want to find the good opportunities

and they work listen I speak I'm the one saying they're idiots you're the one who says that they can't do it anymore I I

see people do it all the time like I'm working in entrepreneurs people from poor backgrounds and so so then so but

then why are I VI you think all of our if it was that easy why is everybody not doing it I'll tell you why people aren't doing it we went through a schooling

system that taught us how to get an office job okay right we went through a schooling system to prepare us for a uh

a world that doesn't really exist anymore which is the Industrial Revolution world and you have to go through a process of figuring out how it

really works so what what I see is the most often the people who do really well

financially who are young they dropped out of school they dropped out of University they started learning how to do things uh by doing their own research

they start their own business or co-found a business they take a very alternative path uh none of that was

taught to us at school none of it's taught to us in normal society we have a school system that manufactures people

for a set of skills that are not particularly valuable anymore and we also get them in debt for those skills

um when people Sid step that and say okay I'm not going to get into University debt I'm just going to go off

and actually figure out how the world works there's actually loads of opportunities okay so I guess we've

sorted it then all our viewers need to do is go and buy Dan's book become an entrepreneur and become a millionaire

it's that easy why W you guys doing it to begin with they're idiots the viewers are idiots they should be just being more entrepreneurial it's as simple as

that more entrepreneurial start a business listen I come from East London okay my friends can't feed their kids

okay and if it was as simple as going out and be an entrepreneur I can bet you they would do it I can bet you they

would do it let us I'm sick of multi-millionaires telling kids who can't afford to turn the heating on you

just need to be more entrepreneurial it's sick Dan it's sick I this gives people mental illness it gives people

mental illness tell them the truth okay we your older generation we took the opportunities and now is almost

impossible to out of poverty and don't just don't just stand up and wave you know your millions of pounds in front of them and say if you entrepreneurial like

me you could do it you could have it because it's sick because they can't they can't feed their kids down they

can't turn the heating on don't tell them to be more entrepreneurial fix the system that drives more and more and

more of them into poverty every generation I find it very strange that you think it would be easier to fix the

entire global economic system than to start a business and fix your own personal economics the the thing that

the thing that I know that gives people mental health issues is feeling that they have no agency in their life that they can't do anything your video where

you talk about if you don't have a rich dad you're screwed there's no such thing as meritocracy you're never going to be successful to me if I had have come

across your content at 19 20 years old I would have been screwed I was so I'm so

glad that I came across people who said Daniel you weren't born into a a rich

family you don't have any Bank of mom and dad but it's cheap and easier than ever to start a business start by

working for someone who's got a business then figure out what's your opportunity and there's a way there is a way I've

actually worked with a lot of teenagers from poor backgrounds and one of the things we do is we tell them if it's

possible for someone else it is possible for you um I also worked in rural Uganda um with a charity that did uh work with

the poorest of the poor um one of the most incredible things I ever saw was a woman who started

out literally picking food out of a trash uh pile um and she was basically

sh they they shared with her how to start a chicken business which then ended up as a pig business which then ended up as a cattle business and she

ended up uh making uh hiring 15 16 people in her local community the power

of Entrepreneurship is that starting with nothing you can actually make improvements I'm not

saying everyone ends up as a millionaire and I'm not saying everyone ends up uh equal but I'm saying you can make improvements in your life and the thing

that causes mental health issues is the feeling of having no agency or no control over your circumstances until

the world changes the whole economic system I never told people don't work

hard I never once said that never once said that never said that you said if your dad wasn't Rich you'll never be rich which is true in 99.9% of cases

I've never told people don't work hard true 99% I've never told people don't work hard okay and listen if you think

that ugandans should be more entrepreneurial I've never been to Uganda maybe that's the problem out there maybe that's the problem in Nigeria maybe that's the problem in

India listen I've never said don't work hard okay when I brought my book out last year the hardback I was at some

event and I come out I was drinking London Bridge and uh I come out late it was like it was like 1:00 a.m. and um

some guy come up to me when I was unlocking my bike some guy from Newcastle which is the northeast of

England it's this quite a poor town there's a lot of workingclass people there and um he said I've been watching

you on YouTube and um I love your stuff and um

this guy started crying this guy start crying on the street right in front of me he's like I work so hard Gary I work

two jobs um my mom's sick and I'm trying to help I'm trying to support and and I

don't understand why and and I'm sorry that I'm crying but nobody ever told me that it

wasn't my fault before that's what he said to me okay and listen listen I believe 100% aspiration ambition

entrepreneurial spirit I would never say see a kid that has that and say turn it off okay but the flip side of your if

you just work hard enough you can make it is if you didn't make it it's because you didn't work hard enough and it's

your fault and I would like you to sit and think very hard before you send that message to young men and young women in

our society meritocracy doesn't mean that everyone uh ends up with the same result

what what I'm trying to what here's what I'm trying to achieve I'm trying to achieve the people who have ambition who can go for it are incentivized to do it

and incentivized to build jobs and build companies about the ones that just want to work hard and have a good family and take care of them and have a home and be

able to turn the heating on and be able to Financial Security they need to work for business don't they they need to work for you yeah P they need to work

they need to work for a business some business right if someone doesn't create that business then where do they work for we now have by the way we now have

11% of 11% of working age people are now declared too sick to work right we have

a huge problem in the UK we also have 25% of uh people who are working age

don't work uh it's one in seven men don't work work at all do you think they're lazy Dan I think the system is

collapsing do you think think the system is average British American working is lazy what I think is happening is that

the technology companies are totally transforming and disrupting everything um and what happened is around the

post-war era we had good jobs we had um you could work in a local thing what's

happening now is that jobs are going to the Philippines they're going to uh techn technology does three things it

makes jobs more simple which makes them replaceable it makes jobs Global where you can move

them to anywhere else and then ultimately it automates the job Al together and gets rid of it uh through code and software and what's really

going on in the last especially 5 years since the pandemic is technology has decimated the existing systems uh that

we all relied upon when we grew up and when I say the uh education system isn't really working it's still pretending

that there are office jobs available for people when they graduate and it's still pretending that there's like 1950

scenarios available when actually my kids are going to be disrupted by AI everyone's kids are going to be

disrupted by AI um you know these sorts of things are the are the things that really we we also need to be talking

about to all the founders and small business owners listening I think you need to hear this it's an update from my

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I want to take this back to a point you were talking about earlier which is about personal agency because I would like you Daniel to give the counter to

your own argument because I want to make sure when we're talking about solutions to this problem start a business be

entrepreneurial you can also understand how that might that works for people

with our brains and our mindset and whatever we had that made us do that our risk appetite our trauma whatever it

might be but not everybody is wide in such a way so that's not necessarily the best solution for and also we sit here

with a bit of hindsight bias where we we were lucky and it worked out for us but when you look at the stats around businesses succeeding what you know the

stat it's like 90% of businesses fail so most of them are failing the ones that emerge from that people

like me then we have a bias where we go well it work for us you do it too I don't come from money so I have the same

bias like I watched well I've I've built I've built from scratch several times because I got disrupted several times so

I've had to start with nothing several times and build but you started type of person right and when we say start from

nothing you actually started with a wealth of information and the whole game in building building Capital

intellectual Capital having been through it before being around that Mentor that gave you the information also having access to a great market like having

access to a free market is is a big thing I was born in Australia and I moved to London at the peak of London's economic freedom so this can't be

broadly applicable advice can it uh well I think personal agency is broadly

applicable the idea I got this friend of mine who woke up one day he went out clubbing went out to a nightclub felt

sick collapsed woke up and they had chopped off all four limbs right so uh he had quadruple ampute um he was 19

years old so he wakes up in bed and he basically says I'm a quadruple ampute I was I was fine 48 hours ago and now I'm

a qu quadruple amputee and he decides to make this decision in the in the hospital room um that this is going to

be the best thing that ever happened to him and he makes that decision right even that is a consequence of his him

and his wiring what I'm trying to understand but he ended up he ended up starting a clinic and it's a multi-million dollar Clinic I mean it's

incredible what can do the rule it's incredible what people but you only need a few people to succeed and the whole

economy starts to improve we we actually in this UK we only at the peak of our

entrepreneurial like blitzing it where we're doing so well there was only 40,000 scale UPS 40,000 companies were

creating jobs growth higher wages um investment into the company into the

country you know it's only 1% of people who pay 30% of the taxes and 10% of

people who pay 60% of the taxes so you only need one in a 100 to actually create something that's valuable and you

get an extra 30% of taxes but so so that again is we need this one that advice for the what the people that end up

getting into that 1% but who does everyone else work for like all jobs growth comes from entrepreneurs so what

are you saying to those the 199% there are you saying go get a job well you you need wealth creators in the economy who

are building something like you take um gym shark people who work at gym shark

they're super glad that this guy started the company they're really happy that there's a company otherwise where would

they go what would they work where would they work so if Ben decides that he doesn't want to start that company in

the UK um or if he gets to 10 million and stops uh then all of those additional

jobs are are toast they're all gone so you encouraging the entrepreneurial you're not encouraging everyone to

become an entrepreneur you're saying those that have those that bias or that

I'm saying we need a system that encourages the people who can to do um and what about everybody else well every

the flow on effect is that that creates jobs that creates wealth in the economy um and free markets lift everybody up

um free markets just means that everyone's trading with everyone um you know it starts to like the whole thing I

mean it's it's just a tail as oldest time as soon as economies are free and there are entrepreneurs starting things

and growing things everyone's life improves everyone life get better um and what's your what part of that do you

disagree with Gary I think it's it doesn't work it doesn't work the only

period listen the last 70 years are not normal Stephen the last 70 years are not normal the last 70 years in Europe and

the US where ordinary people like my dad could work for the post office on less than average wage and buy a house and

support family it's not normal it's not normal in the world and it's not normal in history most countries in the world

do not like that most countries have a a small Super Rich Elite and a very large group of extremely poor people that's

most of the country and it's most of history in this country and it's most of history in the US you know yeah we talk

about Charles Dickens I read hard times I read hard times and this is written in the 19th century when Britain was like

the industrial super of the whole world and at the time the government was talking about should we tax these

industrialists and the industrialists were saying if you tax us we'll throw our factories into the sea and it just

reminds me you know the only time we've ever really been able to provide decent

living conditions for ordinary working people was the period after the war where we massively redistributed wealth

and and now we're losing that that holding of wealth in of the middle class can you acknowledge though that that was

a completely different time as it relates to being able to it was a different time but you I could you know of techy Nigeria today

Brazil today the UK 300 years ago France 200 years ago there is only one specific

time that we have ever successfully provided broad living standards for ordinary people and it was a period of

time we protected a broadly equal wealth distribution and tax the rich at very

high rates and you can acknowledge that that's extremely hard to do because the nature of the economy 100% 100 that's

the reason why all of our grandparents and our great-grandparents and our great great grandparents lived in poverty and that's why I know I'm probably going to

lose and that's why I bet on the economy getting worse and that's why I know poverty is going to increase because it was extremely difficult to get the

unusually fair share for ordinary working people and I know we're losing the argument and I know that farage will

win and I know that Trump will win and I know that and I know that things will get worse I don't think I'm going to win so if you if you know you're promoting a

a strategy that is not going to work and it sounds like you think is incredibly almost impossible then why

would you not be more practical in your solution Stephen if it was impossible I wouldn't be here think it's possible of

course it's possible of course it's possible but you believe you're not going to win I'm a betting man Steve I'm a betting man I put my bets on you know

I am if I get okay look okay so my YouTube channel is growing really really quickly and you know I'm obviously like starting a bit of a movement and there's

a lot of political support and if it keeps growing we'll get more political support at the end of the day I'm trying to tax the richest and most powerful

people in the world and most of these people will come out and attack me and they'll try and stop me and I do not

have billions of pounds hundreds of millions of pounds to use to support my YouTube channel I'm counting on ordinary

people like your viewers to support and share my message now listen for most of history that has not worked and for most

of History ordinary families live in poverty I don't think it's impossible that we Ordinary People can win and get

a fair share but I think it's worth fighting for Steve so I fight for it anyway he's he's right that for most of

History you've had the super Elite and then everyone else is down here and it's massive wealth inequality is almost the

normal uh for the last five thousand years and almost everywhere uh you've got kings queens dukes and peasants and

surfs down there there have been economic situations that have been different uh Dubai is a really strange

situation it's a desert it's in inhospitable to live in it's the last place in the world most people would

think or choose that they would want to be and yet it's one of the most economically rich places in the world right now they actually didn't start

with oil wealth they were able to borrow money to build Dubai but the low tax environment has now attracted raed some

of the world's most talented people to go and build technology companies there and if you I don't know have you been there recently I've been to Dubai few

years AG now but I've been so at the moment it is the most thriving entrepreneurial community on Earth

outside of the US but probably even rivaling the US that there are investors there's entrepreneurs and the wealth is

going through the roof um I've got two friends who are personal trainers fitness trainers one fitness trainer has

decided to stop working uh more hours because he's hit 50 Grand a year and he now gets taxed at 40% so he's basically

decided he's going to earn right up to 50,000 and then stop working and then the other fitness trainer went to Dubai

launched an online uh Fitness uh community and has just bought a $350,000

Ferrari uh and one entrepreneur is super pumped and super excited about building

a business because he's not over taxed the other entrepreneur has literally said I'm not willing to do this because

of how much I have to pay just want to be clear I've always campaigned for lower taxes on rich on working people always always so but here's but here's

the thing right if I was ask you you've just become one of the best selling authors in the country if your publisher

came to you and said because you're in the top 1% of our authors we're going to Harve your royalties uh if you sign a

second book with us you wouldn't sign a second book with them you go to another publisher who says we'll pay you more

royalties because you're so successful I would have written this book for free then I would have written this book for free in fact the first time I got off of

a deal I said I said don't pay me an advance then give you royalties away why

well because if what I'm saying all right fine I'll give my royalties away I'll shut my YouTube channel down I'm

saying we respond to incentives that if your publisher if penguin came to you and said book number two you get half

royalties because you're in the top 1% would you sign with penguin or would you go someone El from a 2 million job a

year to run a YouTube channel do you think I do the work that I do for money I'm not talking about that you do it for

money I'm just saying if you had the option to sign between two publishing contracts right and all things being

equal one's going to penalize you for being in the to 1% and the other one's going to reward you for being in the top 1% would you you of course you would go

with the normal like if all things being equal you want to write a second book anyway it's the same for entrepreneurs

when entrepreneurs start companies we can either start them in high tax economies or with a stroke of a pen

start them in low tax I think the rich world is going to have to start rethinking the fact that it allows

people to very very wealthy people to own enormous amounts of their physical wealth go live overseas and not pay tax

I think that has to be Revisited for sure because what you're saying is I want the benefit of being able to sell

to the US market and the UK Market but I don't want the obligation of having to pay us and UK taxes and you are correct

that at the moment the US and UK governments allow that and I think that's US taxes you on worldwide income

well only a small amount right so I think that realistically I think that the US and UK governments have to stop

that but the way I see it the US and UK governments and increasing a lot of global governments are kind of being

bought up by the elites and you know we have ELO musk is basically the President right and we had richy sunak who father

was one of the richest men in the world like if you're richy sunak who for our American viewers was our prime minister until very recently his father is one of

the richest men in the world he's got 700 million personal wealth he's going to be making 3040 million pound passive income and you're getting paid 130 Grand

de to be prime minister when you're making policy do you think maybe I'll ask my father-in-law at once you know

the fact is what you're seeing here is if you allow the rich I'm I'm never ever against entrepreneurship I'm not against

people getting rich if you allow the rich to get richer and richer and richer they squeeze the middle class and they

squeeze the poor class out of things like housing of things like space in cities of things like energy and of things like owning a sharing government

and media do you acknowledge that countries that adopt a anti-ri big

government approach tend to collapse what like like this country in the 60s we needed a US bailout we needed an

IMF bailout in 1976 but the US did the same thing the US had even higher taxes than us we we basically like you take

you take all the countries that where the government becomes big they meddle with your life they're involved in every decision right half the economy I mean

here's one other the things this period is known as the Golden Age of capitalism it's the period of time when which

period thisi 50 years off the second world war oh it's the Golden Age of middle class to be middle class you

don't care about the middle class no no of course I do the the but the 70 years after the World War II yeah where the

government sold off all of its houses to middle class people so we got housing wealth but you can only do that trick

once right so you can only sell off all the houses to everyone once which is why all the Baby Boomers own them well the

living s is collapsed after the houses were sold there was a long period where the houses weren't sold between the second world war and the 80s pinpo

living standards collapsing well I think there's a few obviously big moments I think 2008 is a big moment I think Co is

a big moment I think it's the 80s where you start to see the wealth distribution go what matters is actually the distribution itself so once you change

the tax system it takes a bit of time for the wealth distribution to change but once you start for me the big thing

is is the loss of wealth holding I want ordinary families to be able to hold wealth and once you lose that you lose a

middle class and you will not find me a single country in in the world now or the history of the world that has

provided good broad living standards without allowing ordinary families to own assets yeah I agree and take

Singapore for example where everyone's encouraged to own properties they've got an amazing system in Singapore they've taken this a massive government by the

way enormous government 25% of GDP they they own they own the houses they have a weal f they own all the houses they

don't own all the houses they have a a sovereign wealth fund that circulates houses through they've they own the hous they' solved they've solved Singapore

owns the house they own the Singapore government owns an enormous share of the houses so do you think we should own

pension Pension funds people uh they force not force their citizens but they

uh direct their citizens into Home Ownership you don't think Singapore and government owns a large sh I just know that the Singaporean government's only

25% of the economy but big sh of the housing stock 75 the economy is I would like to say by the way just to be really

clear I've never ever once advocated for big government never a single time big

government I want higher taxes on the wealth orders so we can tax wealth creators and working people less I don't

want to Big A government I want our viewers to have more money I want our viewers to have more money and also I

want to tax those super rich so that they stop squeezing ordinary families out of asset ownership it just yeah it

see it it seems like an obvious solution it seems like yeah it's good solution it seems like like hey who's got the money

rich people not the money the assets the asset who's got the assets rich people then let's just take them off them and

no no no I don't want I don't want to redistribute I'm I'm I am the only person in this table anti- redistribution because the

redistribution is happening in front of our eyes the middle class is losing its assets government is losing its assets

those assets are being accumulated by the rich I want to stop the redistribution please please I'm I am

the most anti- rist redistribution person in this game we need to stop the redistribu of wealth away from ordinary

British and American families so the difference is for me it's very simple which is I really truly believe that

free markets and low governments and less taxes creates more wealth in the middle and freedom for the Heron is

death for the fishes if we have complete Freedom multi-millionaires like you and me will get richer and richer and richer

every year and we will squeeze out and we will eat the middle class ask you though if wealth inequality could be

solved but everyone does worse is that a good solu obviously not the whole reason I do this because I don't want Ordinary

People toap into public this is about people being able to feed their kids so wealth inequality is not the problem

it's collapsing living stand that's quite contorted I mean quite contorted

Logic the problem isaps living standards I am somebody who has made millions of pounds by understanding the simple fact

that living standards are falling because of growing wealth INE equality so living standards if they were to increase but they were super rich yeah

is that a problem I think you do need to be worried about us extremely wealthy

Elites yeah I think what's interesting you look at the the founding of the United States these guys the founding of

the United States conceptually is really based on these ideas of distribution of power that's why you have the president

and the house and the Senate and you have this independent Judiciary they're like we cannot allow power to become concentrated because they came from a

Europe which had extremely concentrated power and extremely wealthy Elites and extremely broad poverty so I think that

allowing a small group of Society to increasingly monopolize power and wealth over time is obviously something we

should be worried about but primarily the reason I worry about wealth inequality is because I see and I bet on

and I make money on the fact that it causes living standards to Fall by the way I I actually really agree with you

and the founding fathers of the US they did um especially around the 1900s they did want to break up monopolies and

break up monopolies was one of the big things that um they did trust busting uh where they broke up Standard Oil and all

of those sorts of things one thing I do really really see happening at the moment is that we have a stupid outdated

definition of monopolies where we use monopolies the same way they used it when they had the oil uh companies that

owned all the oil in the technology World a monopoly is formed through an ecosystem so Amazon for example owning

AWS and Audible and this and this and this and Whole Foods it creates a a

fortress that's almost impossible to um to compete with and Google owning YouTube and Gmail and all of this they

create these fortresses through ecosystems one of the things that I do think we need to look at is compulsory

breakup of big Tech once you hit a certain time because it's very difficult because do you know billionaires have

two big fears right keep them up at night uh having nightmares number two is high taxes number one is that startup

entrepreneur who disrupts their business and they want to kill that early you know Steve Jobs at 24 years old

disrupted IBM um and Jeff Bezos disrupted Walmart so they are terrified

of entrepreneurs in the middle um and they want to create government regulations to say hey you know what

let's cap entrepreneurs at 10 million you can get to 10 million it's okay for us we're way past that point but Gary's

our guy because he's going to cap everyone I never said cap anyone at 10 million by the way what do you think will happen people stop as soon as you

have wealth taxes people just give up they just don't want telling me our viewers if if they said if they knew they could build a 20 30 million SS

ridiculous they knew they would have to pay 20 if you if you're if you're worth 30 million 1% above is 200 Grand a year

so if I said if you you can have a 30 million pound company TR just bear in mind right you make 5% a year on your

wealth right so if you got 300 million pound company you're going to be making 15 million pound a year and I'm turning to you and I'm going to say you know

you've got to pay 200 Grand a year on your 50 million pound revenue and they're going to say you know what I'm not going to start a business I don't want to be worth 30 million quid this is

you know this is ridiculous you know nobody is going to say oh my God I don't want to be multi multimillionaire

because in 20 years time I'll have to pay 1% taxes but most Traders most Traders are earning what most people

earn in lifetime Traders can earn in a year most Traders don't stop talk about

that a lot in my book right so most Traders just keep going entrepreneurs are the same that they're motivated to

keep going but when you have Wealth Advisors and investors saying do not build a company in the UK because

they're anti- wealth L I'm not trying to make the UK anti- wealth I'm not trying to make the UK and anti wealth I think

the UK and the US need to be looking at a situation where you cannot allow people who own enormous businesses that

sell to your country to live in Dubai to live in the Cayman Islands and not pay tax and I I don't think that's a

controversial position I've got a question for both of you which is if you are a young person and you're 18 years

old now and that you're listening to this but your objective really is an individualistic one you want to get rich and you have a great future for you and

your family like all all of us have been able to do what would your advice be to them Gary at this moment in time this is

such a hard question I know Dan's angry at me for what I put in my video how to get rich um somebody came around to my

house and asked me this other day obviously I get asked it a lot because stupidly I'm very public about the fact

that I'm rich um what I did is not replicable what I did is not replicable it's not I'm sorry I'm sorry but it's

not people always say why don't you teach me to trade like it's hard it's hard trading and it's dangerous and I think a lot of young men are getting

sort of sold into trading and becoming gambling addicts um you know work hard and I would I

wouldn't even say don't become an entrepr I've never ever said these things work hard you know if you think

that you have an opportunity in Tech entrepreneurship go for it understand it's risky I think that sometimes this message just become an entrepreneur and

you make it is a bit dangerous because I think most people who try to become entrepreneurs fail and I think it's super super dangerous the reality is and

you know maybe D like this maybe you won't like this I think it is very very difficult for a young man or a young

woman from a poor family to become rich and I think it's increasingly hard even

to just get those basics of Financial Security so listen obviously reduce your spending if you can don't buy into this

like Balenciaga stay away from that but work hard study hard try to get a

good job but also understand we are shrinking the seats on the Lifeboat that's what we're doing we used to allow

50% to be secure then it's 40% then it's 30% then it's 20% you know you got family in Nigeria if a young person from

like shanty town in Nigeria I came to you and said Stephen what could I do to get rich you would have to say to him

realistically listen you are in a difficult situation here you need to work really really hard but if you are

able to make enough money to to support a family be proud of yourself what I would actually say to them so yeah I

have got family in Nigeria um for people that don't know I'm by Blood half Nigerian I would say to them that

knowledge is really your life raft so obviously there's a big Tech boom happening in Nigeria which is liberating

a lot of people from that situation so I would try and tell them to get on the life raft that is like knowledge of this

new Revolution so from Nigeria you can learn to code and then the the great thing now is that we're we literally

have actually this is quite interesting we're building a tech company in San Francisco called flight cast it's live everyone can go look at at flight.com

and the lead developer oh and guest radar the lead developer of guest radar is a Nigerian guy but how many of those

jobs in the Nigerian Tech sector are going to kids that grew up in the shanty towns I have no idea cuz I worked in

people ask me tell me how to do what you did all right I worked in Canary Warf it's in East London I could see the building from my house going up there

was not a single other kid from East London the whole time I was there do you

know to Dan's point about this remote work Revolution where like work now has you can work from anywhere and in our

company third web San Francisco me some of the stuff that we now have are in the Philippines because they just have like

great creatives there it's obviously more cost effective isn't this a huge part of what's going on in our economy

this this digitalization and this

remotify B your workers in the Philippines very very well

um most of these people they used to have a half decent wage on office and

now they're locked in their bedrooms barely paying the bills yeah um in the Philippines not in the Philippines the Philippine guys are balling out control

no I'm saying the Philippines is booming at the moment so you think the average person in the Philippines is living a luxurious life have you if you uh what's

happening at the moment do you think the average person in the Philippines is living a luxurious life there is there is this thing called remote foreign

workers and this is a huge boom and the economic the kidchen move to the

Philippines then it's great you get great quality of life in the Philippines you know when I looked at the thums of Manila they should just get J they I

don't know why they're not getting the laptops out uh the the poverty in the Philippines is horrific I'm listen

Philippines a beautiful country an amazing country I love the Philippines number in there at at a rate that's

never what is the life like for your average Filipino well would you agree though that their economy is just

getting flooded with money at the moment like money is flowing in there money is flowing in but it is not giving a good quality of life your average Filipino

that's not true remote foreign workers well we can remote foreign workers Filipino viewers to tell us

what's can actually support the often support their en a look I don't know what the average wages in the phili just

to bring it back to this point though so I wanted to know from Gary he said work hard if you're a young guy listening to

this now um I was reading this really interesting article yesterday from the I think it was from major newspaper talking about the lost boys and it goes

to show that I think it's one in seven young men that is at a working age now are out of work so there's lots of talk

around young men in particular and how they're struggling you'd say work hard Gary You' say work hard no blena but the

big thing the big thing is recognize the situation that you're in and I would encourage them to support my work and

follow my channel because the lifeboats are shrinking and trust me we're going

to get out kids in the lifeboats and we all know that all right and if those life boates are shrinking if you don't

if you don't stop the from going down it is not you and you and me who are going to go down we will be fine if

you don't fight the political fight I guarantee you people like Daniel will so you're saying that they should also get

involved in the political fight you have to you have to that's what our grandparents did Grand if they want to become millionaires like you and me and

Dan well it sounds like Dan's got better advice for that than I do okay well I'm going to ask Dan as well but I just wondering I'm wondering how your your

advice ties into sort of like the young the young person who's

trying to liberate themselves from where you came from or where I came from you know what I don't think I'm the guy to

say that man because you know I had this unusual gift from a young age I was very very very good at maths and I just

followed that um and you know you know my sister she's a poet and she wrote a

really successful Grime of musical about DIY R's first album all right she comes from obviously the same family as me

poor family she works so hard she works so so hard two degrees she can barely

pay the rent all right so I don't want to turn around to our young kids and say well I've got this Talent follow your

talent because it doesn't work Stephen true it doesn't work yeah wait my sister

does great work but financially for young people following your passion following your talent unless you come

from Rich family realistically very very really works and I know it worked for the three of us at this table but let's

not pretend that everyone experiences the same things that we experienced what would you say to that D and what's your

answer I think there's two economies going on at the moment there's a dying economy which is the Industrial Revolution economy um and that is all

the office jobs and the factory jobs and all of that sort of stuff which is very much being automated away and moved globally um and at the same time there's

this new bubbling up digital economy um which I'd call the entrepreneur economy or the digital economy um both of these

economies are kind of Co coexisting one's going like that one's going uh like that um and if you want to be

economically successful you need to stand next to the biggest piles of money that you can um you know unfortunately

being a poet uh doesn't pay a lot of money and we all know that that's not a surprise if you came from a very rich

family and you were a poet you'd probably be one of the 60% who fell out of a rich family uh as well um if you

want to be economically successful you need to say what is the thing that's economically booming right now Gary saw

the finance industry at that particular time but if we actually look at the finance industry now it's in Decline um

and trading is being rep uh replaced by AI robots um people who worked in your

career are going to be replaced by uh it systems that basically do similar jobs

it's going to be you know these things happen we're going through a massive uh technological change but at the same

time it's never been easier to learn skills for free uh on YouTube it's never

been easier to join communities where you can get mentoring and get support there are communities of angel investors

who do invest in in startups uh it's never been cheaper or easier to start a company there's never been more software

and Technology to scale and grow you know in just a in a short space of time I would say do what Gary's done Gary

publishes online he's built a personal brand he's attached it to a recurring Revenue model uh he's got yeah I also

worked for three for free for four years I'm not sure how replicable that is you know so build a personal brand attach it

to a business model that is that is where money is Flowing um these are these are positive things you can do we

all have to play the cards we're dealt you can always find someone who's done better with better cards or someone

who's been dealt better cards and you can always find someone who's been dealt worse a cards no matter who you are on the planet there's someone better

there's someone worse you have to play the cards that you dealt you cannot sit around waiting for the economic system

of the world to be changed you have to say you know what these are the cards I was born at this particular time in this

these circumstances these are my strengths these are my weaknesses I'm going to play the cards that i' I've dealt um personal agency is what gets

people to feel good about their life to make progress and as soon as you play the victim mindset soon as you say oh

you know what the answer to all my prayers is Gary's going to change the system uh you're in serious trouble can

I just say one thing back on that um if we become a society of of individuals

who think only individually and and never consider broader societal problems we will become a society that becomes

unable to fix societal problems I'm somebody who has made millions of pounds betting on the

collapse of society the collapse of the middle class um I don't want to be giving stock tips on the Titanic okay I

I understand I understand that we live in individualized societies and and it's not popular to say hey you need to protect your Society um if you don't

protect your Society your Society is going to collapse and and the British public the American public have a choice

to make here here to protect these what do you want people to do I want them to get involved with watch my channel

subscribe to my channel content on YouTube Instagram Tik Tok share it with your friends share it with your mom

understand and then push for change push for change like our grandparents did push the politicians to tax working

people less and tax extremely wealthy wealth orders more so vote for the greens vote for whoever gives you that

whoever gives you your share of the PIP basic listen this is not football okay I'm not here M of the GRE I'm here to

protect the working class so that's their sort of that would be their social and sort of um political energy would be

to stand up and fight but in their in their personal lives are you telling them to start businesses take big risks

work really hard go for it because they can also I would defer to you guys on that you know I'm not a businessman I'm an economist that's what I am you know I

made my money by being an economist I'm a very very good Economist my predictions will be right people can go and watch my predictions at the

beginning of covid I predicted the entire Co crisis exactly correctly in May 2020 you know this is you know I'm

good at this I'm and listen I'm never going to come here and say I'm a better businessman than you and I don't I'm pretty sure that I'm not I'm a very very

very good Economist this will happen is there something that I can do if I'm sat here listening at home I understand

everything you said I believe everything you said I I I believe that it's going to get worse for me do you think I

should still take responsibility of my situation and fight to make my life richer better moreful 100% 100 100% cuz

you you know and I'm sure you know if you're average British or American if you don't do that you're not going to be able to turn the heating on you have to

do it you have to do it and I've never once you I think my opinions are often mischaracterized to being anti- ambition

you've read my book do you think I'm anti- ambition no I work my tits off to make money and I want every single young person in this country to be able to

make money if they want to if that's what they want to work towards but we've created a society where it's almost

impossible for young listen I've been there I've been at LC I've been at Oxford I've been in the city I've been in the media I've been in politics all

all of the guys at the top are a bunch of Rich idiots we are not allowing these smart kids from ordinary backgrounds to

get into those spaces why why do we pretend we're not doing that do that I disagree with that you're talking about

two types of elite spaces Elite space of elite universities yeah and you're talking about the elite space of

derivatives trading there's the real economy yeah where entrepreneurs do their work then there's the first

derivative which is the banking system and then there's the second derivative which is rates Traders like yourself

right these are these These are places that normal people don't want to end up

most normal people who grow up in normal households don't uh wake up one day and say I want to be a rates Trader on a

double derivative of the economy making bets most people want to start a business that employs people and they want to grow that business and be

successful do you think that starting a business is a realistic High success

probability chance of ordinary poor people becoming rich I I know that economies Thrive when entrepreneurs are

active and it's not just the entrepreneurs they create is our viewers can do and most of

them will end up rich you only need 1% to improve the whole economy there's a really interesting stat that says globally around 65% of ultra high net

worth individuals are self-made approximately 19% primarily primarily inherited their wealth and

about 16% inherited wealth but significantly grew it through their own Ventures so 65% of the ultra high worth

individuals globally are self-made does that not mean that if I want to become an ultra high Networth person it's going

to come down to listen we are just come off the back of the golden age of capitalism when ordinary people like my

dad you know I grew up in ilford it's in East London it's a very immigrant area most of my friends I grew up with come from Pakistani Indian immigrant

backgrounds they come over with nothing they worked really hard they made money they had their own assets we had a

period where Ordinary People could make money and could make wealth so obviously we are now in a period where there are

rich people who made money during that period but it's over now I'm seeing ordinary people making money all the time okay so you're telling our viewers

they're idiots why are they not making money I'm not telling anyone they're an idiot I'm saying that if it's that easy okay all right fine go and buy Dan's

book read it and become a millionaire because Dan thinks it's easy to become a millionaire being an entrepreneur but I

suspect having not been an entrepreneur that most of the people who've read your book are not millionaires everything you've touched has turned to Gold you

turned yourself to Academia you got an amazing qualification you turned yourself to banking you became 2 million

a year you turned yourself to being a writer you become Sunday Times bestseller you turn yourself to content creating you get 800,000 followers and

you and now you sit there after all of that evidence and say oh no it's all over guys it's all I'm smart enough to

do it but you guys are not smart enough to do if if you think you can teach you've got your book if you think you canach you say you're smart enough but

they're not smart enough I I wonder if um we do have a bit of an education problem at the at the heart of this

because I was thinking about your sister and I was like right if I was the CEO of Gary's sister what would I do there's two things I do right now the first is

okay where's where what what Marketplace is really valuing an ability to write and write an impactful way I go write

you need to start an Instagram page because I've seen what happened with J sh this guy's pulling in tens of millions a year because he took like you

know nice words that were motivational poetic put them on there and I also YouTube needs to get to YouTube because

if she can talk like you then she's going to do exceptionally well on YouTube as well um but the old there's

not going to be a great economy necessarily for someone who's doing poetry in many other places other than

one I'm saying is the internet but in school we don't teach this there's no YouTube class for YouTube and and it's

such a huge part of the economy I mean I mean me and you have seen that it's there's been this decentralization of media where the megaphone was growing at

20% a year the me the megaphone was people watching start a YouTube become ENT it's the Internet isn't e I'm not

say works for most people stepen for most people no it doesn't work it doesn't work why are we pretending it

does but I what what I what I would say is if in school we taught young kids a couple new things and we stopped

teaching them about Pythagoras's Theorem which by the way chat gbt is going to do for you with your eyes closed and we taught them about the new economy of the

internet about the ability to start a shop and I it's crazy that I the school

system was designed in such a way where they put me in exclusion unit because I was so preoccupied with doing business deals at school and my Headmaster came

on T National TV on what I lied to and said yeah we unexp beled him eventually because he made the school so much money but the system was punishing me for

Entre for entrepreneurship and it wasn't teaching me anything about the the new economy which is which is technology St

do you think it matters if the percentage of young people who are able to Achieve Financial Freedom and have a

family is shrinking so do I think it matters if the percentage of young people that are able

to are you saying attain wealth and have a family yeah Achieve Financial Freedom and have a family I think that's a

really big problem listen I think that's a really big problem I agree I know listen and I know you've got this

podcast and I know you inspire young people and I think that's a good thing I think it's a good thing that you inspire young people to go out and work hard and

try and Achieve something but I'm an economist and what I see is the percentage of young people who make it shrinking and I think if you combine

those two things you reach a really dangerous place because we go and tell the young people it's there for you to start a business and at the same time

the number of people who make it is 10% 5% 2% 1% and there will always be that one person who makes it there will

always be that Steven Bartley in every country in the world who's making it through you know what I'm saying but the systematic issue matters Stephen C can

we can we not change the education system so that when I was 16 and they threw me in the exclusion unit which

made me which would could so easily have made me think that I was a failure because my brothers who went Jason went

to LSC okay and became very much like you and now works in my company um managing my investments he in that

education system was rewarded so I sat there as a kid thinking rich and successful my older brother Jason

because he can do maths and I thought I'm going to be a failure because I like this thing called entrepreneurship and I have ADHD so I can't pay attention in

lessons what I'm saying is if the education system was designed in such a way where people like me who were entrepreneurial who were interested in

the internet and couldn't stop playing video games were clapped for and said oh my God double down on that yeah um I

think the net benefit when you think about what the backbone of the economy is which is entrepreneurs starting

businesses would be profound for this country here yeah but that but but I I

think that I believe there needs to be such a radical overhaul of our education system if we want to stand a chance of

capitalizing on what the economy is today yeah I I think I think you could probably change the education system in

a lot of ways that could improve it but you're kind of changing the education system on the Titanic what my my perspective is I can tell you with a

very very high rate of certainty if you don't fix this problem of the wealth being sucked out of the middle class 95

98% of people will be in poverty in this country in 70 years I agree with you this is the thing I agree that you can't

have a group of people at the very top that own all the assets and all the money or else I mean it's going to come from somewhere and I remember the day

that I printed off the jobseekers allowance form when I was stealing Chicago town piz 10 years ago in my room in Mosside in Manchester I remember what

it feels like to not have my parents speaking to me to be have all these ccj letters and baith letters on my desk and

really have no answer how how to get out of the situation to the point that I was like shoplifting I'd call the justy

driver and then trying to persuade him just to give me the food that was that was that was 10 years ago for me so I I

it's not I've not forgotten the the those years of my life so I understand what it is to be in that situation and

on an individual level I need need some answers because I'm not going to wait for these people in the

parliament to fix my life for me so I need some individual answers and then I do also care about the bigger picture so

I'm not like here as someone that just wants to acrew loads of wealth myself of course listen let's be honest no one

like there's not many human beings that wouldn't like more money so I try and acknowledge that bias but what I'm the

the the the big issue I have is is is how and from my personal experience as

someone that now employs hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people here in London up in Manchester in our offices I

there are a set of things that would make me leave this country if it became increasingly less uh friendly to

entrepreneurs I reckon if we come back here in 5 years time I reckon I'll employ 500 more people in the UK and

actually as you look around this room you can see the age of them these are young people yeah um there are things you could do to make me not do that I

mean it's probably worth pointing out that we're not taxing wealth and you're leaving the country anyway Stephen no I haven't left the country okay you're

going I'm I'm a tax resident here I pay my taxes here and I have zero intent in changing that I'm also on Dragon you

know so we're investing a lot of money in UK businesses but listen I want to raise I want to tax only high levels of

wealth only high levels of wealth and listen don't get me wrong I understand very rich people will complain and very rich people will say just like they did

in Dickens I'm going to throw my businesses I'm going to throw my taxes my my businesses and my factories into the sea Stephen your viewers are here

you listen Steven your viewers are here you are a very wealthy person they are are paying 20 30 40 50% you should be

paying your fair share Stephen you should I think that I should

pay more tax especially when um I don't think my kids should get should should

benefit from my wealth and maybe this is a controversial opinion but I actually don't I don't think I should be able to

pass down my assets to my children you can't it's 40% tax I think it should be more 4 yeah let's not pretend rich

people don't successfully pass their ass their children I'm just telling you now I do think I'd be robbing my children of

something from the background that I came from if my CH my child gets if my child has gets tens of millions

let's say even when I die I don't think that should happen well I agree people say when I talk about my sister people

like why don't you just give your sister a load of money listen my sister works hard she's a smart person she works hard

she produces good work I want to live in a society where people like my sister are able to support themselves with the

work that they do but we we're destroying that Society who would pay her the the customers you know this the

situ so you want her to start a business she is a business yeah yeah and I want people like her to be to be taxed less

so that what I want is ordinary working people to be tax less so they have more money in their pocket listen the reason

we had the thriving art scene in the 60s is because we had a thriving middle class that could go and buy the new fashions and buy the new records and

then that created this thriving art scene now we have a middle class which is struggling to pay the bills so they

can't they can't buy stuff they you know my syst makes theater shows the only people who go to the theater are rich

people now but back back in the day you know theater was something that was more accessible you want you want the Arts I've got to mate use a fashion designer

right nowadays there's all of the business is super fast super cheap super disposable fashion or unbelievably

expensive high-end because that's the economy we've created I want you go to Japan which is a less unequal Society

the restaurants are good quality restaurants for ordinary people because a good capitalist Society will produce

things for the people with money in the case of theater where have the theater consumers moved to where are they

getting their entertainment now well what you have is a very rich group of people who will still go to the theater

and they will pay a lot but then you have a large group of people who are relatively cash scarce and they will try

to get their entertainment in cheaper ways of course you know what I mean they're spending their time watching your YouTube channel well exactly my you

which is Free by the way yeah but you get paid from it you get the YouTube Honest it's only in the last couple of months that I started to make any money

because I don't do my own um editing so and you I mean you'll know but in the first few years you're paying yourself

to do it you know what I mean like I think people some times massively overestimate the amount of money this is entrepreneurs entrepreneurs go through 2

three four 5 years worth of struggle to get to the point where they're successful and it feels pretty horrific

that you say oh finally when I make it you take it um and then the advisers to entrepreneurs just 10 million is quite a

lot of money so you know you can be worth 9 million and not be paying anything more but what if I just raise 1

million for investment into my company but that then like I do if I'm if if I'm

raising money all the way along and my investors are saying I'm sorry I don't invest in the UK economy because it's wealth taxes and all that sort of stuff

it's anti- wealth uh and then I just have to move my company overseas well I want to create a situation where the UK

consumer is so strong that you have to invest in the UK you don't have to be here to sell to them if you're looking to take the next

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we all agree on this premise though that Gary's saying which is the very the ultra Rich which we can classify as

being worth more than you're saying we say 10 10 million is the line that we campaign for okay we we think that they

should pay a greater share of the tax and then the qu if you agree with that premise the question then becomes yes

but how yeah well they already do 1% pay 30% I want to be clear that's the top 1%

of taxpayers which is not the top 1% of richest people mind you I'm also not necessarily saying um what's fair I'm

saying what's practically possible right so like you could you could come up with the world's most Fair on a back of a

napkin this is what's fair but whether you can implement it is a very difficult thing the problem is wealth is

completely mobile now it's really you can live work from anywhere the houses Dan yeah it's land

is that mobile you going rip you can't rip the country out of the out of the sea there's very few I've never met any

seriously wealthy people who own a lot of houses you honestly think that the entire housing stock of the UK is not

valuable yeah no it is but 78% is owned by Baby Boomers they just own they've

they've bought a house in 1992 they own the house personally I think that that house ownership especially when you

consider mortgages is relatively unequally distributed that is by the way the most equally distribut young people

have now had the commercial property the land the natural by Pension funds so you're the viewers own it do they no

they're owned by if they own a pension fun most of those commercial what the distribution of Pion what is the distribution of Pensions what percentage

of Pensions is owned by top 1% the I wouldn't know off the top of my head but with pensions but I know I know that OB

obviously wealth concentrates at the top but here's the one thing keep in mind wealthy group are not necessarily a

static group there was a study of the richest people in 1900 and most of those

families are poor today or they they've gone down in value today uh if the richest people in 1900 had have just

simply kept their wealth there'd be 16,000 more billionaires but but they they don't um you know in Wealth

Management in Banks yeah they have this thing called the um succession planning so succession planning is where they try

and figure out how to not to screw it up across generations and they're they're notoriously bad at it it's very hard to

keep wealth in Generations down in the 20th century we had two world wars and a

holocaust that redistributed wealth I would prefer not to have that

again yeah yeah yeah I'm with you I want a affluent middle class I I really do so where's the we going to come from you

want to just you're going to create your entrepreneurs entrepreneur entrepreneur economies that

are friendly towards wealth creation and Entrepreneurship was the last time you had a government that wasn't let's grow

let's grow let's grow it's not working for the people Daniel no the problem is is that they need to step back they need to let

shrink let shrink let shrink our viewers should keep close ey on Donald Trump and Elon Musk because they're doing what

you're asking it'll be interesting to see what happens right it's too soon to tell if you were trying to grow the UK

economy would you not take America approach because they seem to be much more successful at growing growing their

economy I think I mean of course when we talk about slashing of the state they're going to use these examples like oh there's this wasteful government

building everybody wants to slash government waste of course I'm not going to fight against slashing government waste um I'm from the UK you know I saw

the austerity years I've seen what's happened to local Services I've seen what's happened to things like the police like like education you know

especially things like Youth Services um you slash the state you fire a load of

people you know what does the state okay yeah if you can get rid of State corruption yes 100% if

you can get rid of State waste 100% you know this is how single moms feed their kids

Stephen you want to stop that no I'm saying that slashing the

state I don't think it's going to work um to be honest I think tariffs is is

not an uninteresting discussion I think yeah of course tax avoidance is something you need to get rid of really

I would like to take a step back look at the country and say what is the state of the country what what the people need

you know we have a country here where the housing stock is falling apart and we're letting it fall apart because those houses are owned by ordinary

people who don't have any money if you want the country to work for ordinary people you need Ordinary People to have

money I'm always reminded of Mr Beast he goes to places in Africa and he spends 500 quid and he gives a kid eyesight who

would have been blind for the rest of their life for 500 quid why are kids in Africa blind who could be given sight

for 500 quid because they don't have any money this is what happens when you

drain your middle class you this will end up like that you know you know I've got a friend who went to India last week

he said there were people lying on the street outside with rotting limbs you know that is what happens when you when

you disempower when you take the money away from your middle class you've got to protect the middle class if the middle class had money then there would

be unbelievable business opportunities for selling goods and services like your business to the middle class so would

you tax Daniel more I don't know if Daniel's worth more than 10 million pounds it sounds like he is um is I mean I think I want to make it

clear right you people you make 5% on your wealth so if Daniel's worth 100 million he's making £5 million we're

only trying to tax you 1% I think if you are worth 100 million you're making 5 million pound passive income you can afford to pay a million pound tax a year

you're going to still keep getting rich the truth is even if we were to tax these billionaires 1% a year they would

still squeeze the rest out this is not this is not about morality this is just cold hard economic analysis that I have

made a lot of money betting on so closing arguments then chaps um I'll start with you Gary based on everything

we've discussed today um what is I'm going to ask you to to give me two perspectives which is if I'm a young

individual in this country right now what should I do to protect myself and my family and to feed my family what

kind of behaviors what strategy should I drop there but also then from a government level I know we have some politicians that listen because they

message me what should politicians be doing to to fix the issue that we're all

clearly identify which is the collaps of the middle class the collaps of sort of working-class people and the the the

increased wealth of the rich I think what I would like young people to understand is that this gets worse this

getss much much worse it will get much worse um relatively quickly uh poverty will increase relatively quickly it will

become increasingly difficult almost impossible to make any serious money prepare

yourself for that prepare yourself when you consider your finances when you consider your plans for having a family

um this gets worse and it's going to be really really hard it's going to be a big mental health problem for a lot of

young people um so speak to people and understand that um my YouTube videos are there G's economics people don't

understand what's happening um after that you've got to do all the right things yeah I mean I don't disagree with

you you've got to work hard you've got to study the right things um I I think it's a great shame we have made subjects

like the Arts um a thing which you you're not allowed if you come from po poor backgrounds you cannot work in arts

I'm sorry you can't pay the bills you can't so you have to go and study Ai and Computing and you know maybe social

media although we have to be honest social media doesn't pay for most people um you have to realize the reality of

your situation it's very very very very bad that doesn't mean you don't work

that doesn't mean you don't Aspire you work damn hard because you have to but if you manage to make enough money to even support a family you should be

proud of yourself that that's the number one thing um but recognize this can be changed this can

be changed our grandparents our great-grandparents fought for our biggest share of the pie and they got it

they got Healthcare they got education they got housing they got food our young

people can have that as well but they won't get it unless they fight for it so I would encourage people to educate themselves support my work

get involved politically but also work hard support your friends and family try and make money because you'll have

to if you don't play politics I guarantee you the other side will play politics and that means your kids and

your grandkids live in poverty so you have to do both with regards to politicians um I got mixed feelings

about a lot of politicians the truth is I think a lot of politicians are very rich and and ultimately they don't care

they're protected a crisis of inequality looks fantastic from the top and I think that's why the three of us can sit here

and say things will be fine because for us they will be fine and for our kids they will be fine but for our viewers kids they won't be fine um the

politicians are not going to try and save you I'm going to try and make sure they do it but I don't think they will