00:00:00
just getting tired being tough was the purpose of fighting
00:00:06
if I will end up not being able to fight for the only person that I can fight
00:00:18
[Applause]
00:00:23
for heavyweight champion of the world I was 13 years that I decided that I was
00:00:30
going to be a professional fighter but I have no money we don't have shoes we don't have food there's not a gym I have
00:00:37
to do something for that dream so I left Cameron you need to get to Spain I was
00:00:42
reading that people died oh a lot and you were drinking water that had dead animals we had no choice I attempt in
00:00:48
the ocean I fell six times at trying to climb the fence but B while it was the toughest part why didn't you give up
00:00:54
when your dream is so big it's hard to give up and the day that we arrive in Paris I can start that dream to become a
00:01:00
war Champion heavy in the world you left the
00:01:06
UFC because a disagreement with Dana White what's the truth easy he didn't want to and then you f an Joshua
00:01:14
honestly on that fight there was in lot of unfairness what do you mean they have a lot of tricks do you think they were
00:01:19
doing that intentionally yeah it was so messy and then life shows how cruel it's
00:01:25
capable of being when my boy pass away now was a moment that I really feel like a
00:01:32
failure have you been able to [Music]
00:01:41
grieve the DI overa raffle is about to close anyone that subscribes to the D
00:01:48
before we hit 7 million subscribers which is probably going to be in a couple of days time you will be included
00:01:53
in the raffle and on the day we hit 7 million subscribers we are giving away a lot of money can't buy prizes to all of
00:02:00
you so hit the Subscribe button get in before 7 million and I'll announce the prizes and the winners in the comments
00:02:06
below when we hit 7 million
00:02:12
subscribers Francis we met in a hotel room in Paris MH it was me you tiar omry
00:02:18
and chy and several other people and um I knew you from TV I'd watched you fight
00:02:24
but I had no idea about your story and it's funny cuz
00:02:30
we all went around one at a time tierry me um and then you and shared our early
00:02:35
story and when we came to your story I just couldn't believe it was true I
00:02:41
couldn't believe it was true really of of course I'd never heard and I sit here and interview people for a living I've
00:02:47
never in my life heard a story like that from where you started to where you ultimately ended up and I know you've
00:02:54
told it before to some people but I have to start there because
00:02:59
because it I think it creates the context of everything that you are today and the man that sits in front of me so
00:03:05
if you take me back to West Cameroon in
00:03:11
1986 yeah what would I see what was your childhood like um I think you will see two parents
00:03:18
that are just struggling um making it a dad who was a
00:03:25
carpenter and then a mom that really didn't have job and then at some point
00:03:32
she she was doing whatever she find whether it's like selling uh cook some
00:03:37
stuff and sell in the in the trade so that's that was it in back then back in
00:03:46
1986 the average person lives on $1,500 a year in West Cameron that's what I
00:03:53
read oh that's a lot oh really $1,500 a year that's a lot of money how
00:04:01
much money were your family living on a year a year oh definitely less than
00:04:09
that less than thousand for sure and you're in a village of about
00:04:17
11,000 people yeah I mean yeah maybe back then I think now we are over is
00:04:23
over 20 or 20,000 people or 30,000 people now I found some
00:04:31
pictures take a look at these pictures what are these different pictures can you describe them to me what they are oh
00:04:38
yeah those uh this is me and my mom in our kitchen um yeah this was uh when I
00:04:46
won the UFC title uh and then I I said it there on purpose like you know I've
00:04:51
been sitting in this kitchen since when I was a kid so dreaming about boxing and
00:04:59
everything so I got to go out there from this kitchen go out there get that belt
00:05:04
of a world champion and bring it back and set it in that same kitchen and sit in the same spot that I used to sit then
00:05:11
I'm like at the end of the day not only everything is possible it's not such a
00:05:16
big deal you know for anyone that can't see this cuz they're listening on audio it with all
00:05:23
due respect it it looks like there's the floor is mud and the walls are mud and
00:05:29
brick yeah so looks like a m yes that's that's how we build house because it's the less
00:05:36
cost you want because you make like a m to make to make bricks with it's not
00:05:41
like a brick with sand and C it's just a m so that's some it's like a mud hut
00:05:47
yeah and you're sat you're sat there on the floor with with your mother no on the floor on the chair on the I mean I
00:05:55
wouldn't call that a chair but it's a piece of wood is a chair piece of wood which is a chair you can sit in the
00:06:01
piece of wood comfortable was this was this a happy
00:06:07
childhood no um absolutely not but for some reason
00:06:15
um I think regardless of everything I owe who I am today to my childhood you
00:06:23
know um as much as I hate my childhood my childhood I was so mad so upset about
00:06:29
it since we didn't have the minimum the minimum necessity like even like brush
00:06:36
uh toothbrush stuff like that you know book to go to school even like a uh
00:06:42
petrol to put in the lamp and learn we didn't have some time sometime like you see the fire there right on the picture
00:06:49
the fire where we are cooking on the wood sometime you're going to take your book there and read it like this like so
00:06:56
this is just a fire you've made with a bunch of wood and some rocks and you would go and read by the that fire so
00:07:01
you could see your book yeah we cook uh they put some food on top of a uh the
00:07:08
the bricks or the stone there to cook and then meanwhile you're using the fire
00:07:13
the flame to to light up and read your book sometime what made your childhood
00:07:20
so unhappy though what was it other than the the difficulty the challenge of everything uh as I say like we miss
00:07:28
everything uh most of the time we a lot of time we will be walking bare food because we
00:07:33
don't have shoes uh or we will be like uh fixing shoes in 10 in Thousand Ways
00:07:41
you know to still have a shoes our pants will be having holes all over uh and we
00:07:46
will still trying to do we will go to school be embarrassed because uh maybe sometime we don't have a pen or pencil
00:07:54
or notebook or Haven pay scholar fee and they're going to um kick us out from the
00:08:01
classroom so all that stuff was embarrassing not to mention like when come a break time you don't have
00:08:08
something to eat uh unlik your um peers the other kids you know you just around
00:08:16
on your own so it was a lot of thing everything uh was a challenge and that's
00:08:21
why like when sometime I'm like you people that are being very comfortable
00:08:27
never being in the struggle I'm like oh money doesn't make happiness money blah blah blah I'm like give me the money and
00:08:33
then keep the happiness because I have been without money and I know what it feels like all
00:08:40
day long I prefer being with money you really describing the
00:08:46
comparison that causes the unhappiness between yourself your family who you guys were and the other kids yes
00:08:52
absolutely I mean how many time do I get sick and didn't have a peer couldn't even go to the hospital we couldn't even
00:08:59
have a PE from around uh the street a pill yeah and then you're just home sick
00:09:06
like this hoping having some prayers maybe luckily sometime go in the bush
00:09:13
and find some um REM uh to cook and hopefully that he
00:09:19
works but you can't afford what were you eating during that time when you didn't have the money Farm um corns beans
00:09:28
peanut uh stuff like that yum uh
00:09:33
casava um veggies stuff like that is there a
00:09:40
moment you look back on your childhood and think that was the worst Moment For Me growing up just a memory or something
00:09:46
that happened that you thought this was really the the bottom for me I would not say the bottom I mean regardless of
00:09:54
everything I think um I was lucky and uh I think I was
00:10:01
gifted to be able to handle that that a proper way you know uh when I look at it
00:10:07
today I'm impressed of the way that I handle it and uh even without knowing
00:10:13
where that would lead me where I was going with that I just handled it like
00:10:19
find a way out but I never like feel like in a bottom you know in fact like
00:10:25
one of my biggest motivation came out of that situation like uh I was around 13
00:10:31
years old and he was someday around 300 p.m. they kick me out of the classroom
00:10:38
one more time and I think that day I was pissed I was very pissed like almost
00:10:44
crying like okay what the hell is this like what do I do to to deserve this
00:10:50
like why is this so unfair you know uh and then the look of the other kids on
00:10:56
me and didn't stand that either you know then therefore I uh it was now a
00:11:03
challenge I promised myself that I going to change that I going to prove them it's not my fault I was just a child
00:11:10
just as them uh which doesn't have the same opportunity as them just we
00:11:16
couldn't have a parent that can provide for them but in fact the minimum that I
00:11:22
had wish wasn't enough was um something that I work for I earned I
00:11:29
know the value of it and even though you have more they have more than me they didn't earn it you know they they they
00:11:37
give it to them but they didn't earn it I started I started to work in the s San Quarry I was uh 9 years old so which was
00:11:46
a sand mine yeah sand mine and what you doing you're you're using a shovel to pick up sand and pick sand or di dick
00:11:54
sand in on the mountain um so I mean I
00:11:59
know that I get to realize that even though I have less I work for those less
00:12:06
and I work hard for those that and even though they have more they don't really know the value of what they have so in
00:12:12
fact I'm not beneath them in fact I'm quite Superior why were you kicked out
00:12:19
of the classroom that day uh when you were 13 he was I think he was uh scholarship that that exact
00:12:27
same day I think was scholarship uh the fee The Scholar fee oh okay so you
00:12:33
kicked out of school because you didn't have the money yeah because I haven't paid the annual fee I haven't complete
00:12:38
the annual fee and uh yes that day he was it but you know he was the same
00:12:44
thing over on over this year next year the year after and uh that day I think
00:12:51
it was a signal and I'm like this is going to change and um but the problem
00:12:56
now um I was was in the situation that I needed to do more than others to to be
00:13:05
noticed you know I was I wanted to prove them that that's no the the perception
00:13:12
that they have on of on of me is not who I am I'm better than that and
00:13:20
uh yeah so I was 13 years and that's the day that I decided that I was going to
00:13:26
be a professional fighter a professional boxer it was the day that I really
00:13:33
decided growing up I want like karate I want this I want that but I get to the point that I want something that not
00:13:40
only will be my passion but at the same time will provide for me and help me to
00:13:45
provide for my family as well and then I come across like okay boxing combat
00:13:51
sport is the thing to do but problem I'm 13 years old there's not um there is not
00:13:59
a gym in um 50 Kil 50 miles uh radius
00:14:07
and uh I haven't I never see a gym you know I never saw a gym before then and
00:14:12
even after that time I think I stayed in the village until I was 22 was the
00:14:18
moment that I'm like okay enough is enough I can just be dreaming I have to
00:14:23
take action I have to do something for that dream then I leave the village I I
00:14:29
moved to the city I mov to some place that I don't know and then just like
00:14:34
sell everything that I have to start boxing and I was 22 at that time I've heard you say as well about your father
00:14:41
my whole life my father was the example for me of what not to do yeah I think that's the best thing that ever happened
00:14:47
to me because if my dad wasn't what he was I could have been what he was but I
00:14:52
still love him a lot yeah because again like from my
00:14:58
perspective um he is the person that affected my life the most he was
00:15:03
violent and then I happened but he wasn't capable of
00:15:10
uh canalyzing his energy his strength or no how to use it then maybe
00:15:19
if they have a argument or something usually at time people was fighting a
00:15:24
lot but he was Stronger so he basically end up beating other people so makes the them the
00:15:33
victim and him the guilty right so and then he has a reputation because when you get into so many
00:15:39
fight uh in the in the hood and you and you're winning any fight so you're just
00:15:46
a bad guy you know so it has that reputation uh from people don't really
00:15:53
like his behavior and then uh that's something that I understand
00:15:59
really quick and then who have affected me I didn't want to have that reputation although I like everything uh that
00:16:06
related with power I was very into it but I'm like no no way they are talking
00:16:12
to me about my dad basically like the divorced I was 6 years old so I started
00:16:17
go live with my ants and this and everywhere they would be like yes you just yeah he's doing like his father
00:16:25
he's must be like his father stuff like that and he pisses me off like so bad
00:16:30
like I don't want to be have that reputation even though I like everything
00:16:36
with strin power fighting you know then that's how like I ended up find those
00:16:43
boxing combat sport stuff he was the right thing to do because there was a rules there was a rules he was organized
00:16:51
and everything was right to do and he wouldn't affect your reputation when you
00:16:57
get into a boxing mat match or character fight you win you're a winner they
00:17:03
celebrate you they don't blame you from beating somebody he was a violent man outside of the home but also inside the
00:17:10
home yeah little bit to you and your mother we will get some we will get some
00:17:17
Spain I mean in Africa uh at that time that's kind of uh thing was happening a
00:17:23
lot into a lot of fames so he wasn't something nowadays things a little
00:17:29
different but he wasn't something that was very different you know just so he
00:17:35
was kind of like strict straight guy yeah was he violent towards your mother
00:17:41
uh sometimes sometime it could happen he passed away when you were 15
00:17:47
years old yeah it did how how did that impact you at 15
00:17:55
when he passed away uh you know no he wasn't
00:18:01
um he wasn't a big part of my life at that at time
00:18:08
um but yeah you get affect you think about like your dad and the fact that
00:18:14
you will never see him again you know time to time for months you think I am
00:18:19
like man so this is it and yeah he affected you a lot I mean you're hurt
00:18:26
but you just have to keep rolling when he passed away he couldn't afford to go to the hospital yeah he was sick
00:18:33
he was at home for months sick uh just stay in bed uh couldn't even go out to
00:18:40
the toilet on his own anything he has one leg that was get
00:18:46
uh rotten and was just there like that until he Di and that was something that
00:18:53
I look at it I'm like man I think I need to do something something I need to take
00:18:59
action because this kind of thing might happen uh again in the future or in my
00:19:07
to my mom or to somebody close and I won't be I will be powerless and uh no
00:19:15
doesn't have to be like this you know so that was one of the reason like just
00:19:22
being sick be at home on to die maybe we could have saved him if we have money
00:19:28
maybe he could have still be alive if he could have go to the hospital but nobody
00:19:34
knows and nobody will ever know a couple of
00:19:39
years after I was looking at my mom and I asked myself if she ever got sick what
00:19:45
would I do and it scared the hell out of me at that point I knew I had to do something to at least be able to provide
00:19:52
her some decent healthare I always wonder what it would be like if my dad was still alive today
00:20:00
I wish I can have him in my life today even just for a day
00:20:07
yeah well uh after my d uh passed away and then I
00:20:13
think that was also a shock of our situation I realized I mean I was 15 by
00:20:19
the time I know that our situation wasn't good we W living in a good
00:20:25
condition but that was like a eye opening like okay this how bad it is he
00:20:30
didn't go to the hospital for months I was going there time to time and he was
00:20:36
suffering in pain and everything it didn't go to the hospital and uh even
00:20:42
when he passed away I could have I keept having nightmares of seeing him like in
00:20:48
pain screaming at night stuff like that and I'm like this not happening again
00:20:54
bro like he was tough right so uh um now that was not only like I was
00:21:03
thinking that uh when I grow up I have a family and I want to provide them uh
00:21:09
provide to them and then get them in a good situation in a better condition but
00:21:15
that was like okay this something that can happen again what would you do it could be yes it could be your mom it
00:21:21
could be one of your siblings or it could some day be your own kid what will
00:21:27
you do like just sit there and no I need to do something
00:21:34
so that's I I took actions you know and then uh yeah in the other hands seeing
00:21:42
where we were when my dad passed away I always wonder like what would it
00:21:48
be like if he was around if he could turn around and see us what would he say like how would he
00:21:55
feel I mean he always uh and I miss those moment that I I replicate uh our
00:22:03
family a lot you know growing up we never have to eat in the dining table like this we didn't have a dining table
00:22:11
um but uh for the past year I've been replicating that like I will have we
00:22:17
have nice house with table dining tables and sometime I will get there and then regroup everybody in the table and then
00:22:24
even though I don't speak I look at that table and know that somebody is missing there's one person missing you know who
00:22:31
could have be the to to to make that a perfect T you know even though it's
00:22:39
quite uh enjoyful to be with those who are there it's still like a blessing to
00:22:45
have them um but it's still sad not to have one person
00:22:52
there you start dreaming at that very young age you start dreaming of a different life and I was reading that
00:22:58
you were pretty obsessed with America you were signing your signature
00:23:04
San Francisco not like obsessed I love America I always love America like since
00:23:09
I I uh I name myself American boy I name I give myself a nickname of American Boy
00:23:16
when you were young yeah like kids around will call will call me American boy because I tell them that's my name
00:23:22
and at 17 you said that you left that small town is it called Betty betti yes the village that's the V that you left
00:23:29
and you um you moved to a different town mhm you went to Cameron's largest city where you started boxing City yes
00:23:36
Dua why did you leave he wasn't at 17 at 17 I left
00:23:42
uh I abandoned school because I couldn't continue ah okay so you left school at 22 okay so 22 you decided you wanted to
00:23:50
move City yeah had you ever been to a gym before before when was the first age
00:23:56
you went to a gym uh a boxing gym yeah kind of 22 22 yeah
00:24:04
when I left the village to go find one um why did you end up leaving Cameroon
00:24:09
and what age was it when you left Cameroon I left Cameroon I was around um
00:24:15
I was 26 around 26 when I left Cameron why did you leave well I knew that I
00:24:22
couldn't make it there uh as a boxer because I started boxing and I know that
00:24:28
reality there I know the truth even before I started boxing I I knew the reality I knew that uh it can happen
00:24:35
there you know I need a big stage I need somewhere that um there's more boxing is well developed
00:24:44
uh where did you want to go first he was always America but uh from Cameron there wasn't
00:24:53
a way to come to America I wasn't going to swim to the uh Atlantic
00:25:01
Ocean so the easiest way the more Payway was to go to Europe so
00:25:11
April the 3D you're 25 26 years old um 2012 which doesn't feel like it was that
00:25:17
long ago 2012 is when I left it was 2012 yeah that's when I left that's when I left my secondary school and at that
00:25:23
time you leaving Cameroon yes and you're objective was you were going to try and
00:25:30
get to to Spain or get to Europe yes so
00:25:35
you were going to walk from Cameroon to Europe uh it wasn't work I mean from
00:25:41
camaron uh I was in Dua I took a bus to Y then I took a train to the train to
00:25:47
North camon and then we took like a we started take like a um um how do they
00:25:56
call CL l no no no small car that you know they
00:26:02
know how to avoid police uh uh station and all those stuff on the road so
00:26:09
that's how we get from Cameron North Cameroon to Yola in Nigeria and
00:26:15
then Yola to Cano and then Cano Niger and so you traveled from Cameroon
00:26:22
to Nigeria to n to Algeria to Morocco to Morocco yeah and then
00:26:29
how did you get through the Sahara Desert uh he were we we were lucky uh
00:26:37
our group didn't have so much of a trouble um even though it was 25 of us
00:26:45
in the back of a pickup truck yeah but uh we made it the truck
00:26:53
didn't broke up uh we get it out there safe people died
00:26:58
going oh a lot like uh all the way you will see like sket around skeletons
00:27:06
skelet is in the desert and just look other way other way like no You' see
00:27:13
skeletons and look away yeah how how do you afford where does the money come
00:27:18
from to get go on this journey to get out of Cameroon and to try and get to Europe cuz it must cost money yeah from
00:27:24
the beginning um the beginning is not so hard uh because it's something that you
00:27:30
prepare for for years you don't just wake up one day and go like this you
00:27:35
prepare for you don't know how much you need but you know that the much that you can have you you can use it to go you
00:27:44
know so I have some savings that I've been saving saving for a little
00:27:50
while I took some with me and I give gave some to my little sister to keep it
00:27:56
ready in case I call because I didn't know where I was going and then we have
00:28:01
heard that there's a lot of smugger Smuggler uh on the way so you better
00:28:07
don't carry what all your money on your on you so as much as you're going you're
00:28:13
going to call and then they will send money uh until it's over and then you
00:28:19
start to figure out on your own what is the you say it so casually but what is the reality of that of that Journey you
00:28:27
know I was reading that you were drinking at times drinking water that had dead dead animals inside the water
00:28:33
yeah when we first crossed the desert uh we get to South Algeria um in a tamaras
00:28:41
set we found a water well and it was almost dry and there was a little water
00:28:48
that was there for I think for months there was death animal and all the uh
00:28:54
leaves everything was inside the water but um we were so dehydrated because our water
00:29:01
in finished in the desert like hours ago so at time the water didn't look good at
00:29:08
all it was pretty bad but I think the philosophy right here was like okay
00:29:14
whether I drink the water and if he has to kill me he kill me later or I just
00:29:20
die now by dehydration I think when that's the only two Choice it's easy to
00:29:25
choose one die now or die a little [Laughter]
00:29:33
later what does all of this this experience do to you as a man in terms of your your resilience and attitude
00:29:39
towards life you probably don't even know because you just are the way that you are but you must see that you're
00:29:45
different from other people in the Western World I think in general in Africa we
00:29:51
are quite different uh to um the Western World um we we have more not that in the
00:30:00
Western World people don't have hardship but we have mostly most of us we have hardship
00:30:08
and toughest one for the most part you know um like because in the Western
00:30:14
World you will not see it's it's not very often that you will see kid that that have experiment uh famine you know
00:30:22
like uh going to to sleep without eating or something
00:30:28
I think the S the is the West is more designed to stay away of those kind of
00:30:34
trouble you might not have home but you can still have something to eat but in
00:30:39
Africa um most people they will not even have that and then um the good thing and
00:30:48
I think the different that I found so far is that in Africa you know from your
00:30:55
early age that you are not counting on not body you are not expecting anything
00:31:01
from anybody it's all on you and as long as you get that the rest of your life
00:31:08
get better because you go out there and figure it out but you go in a lot of
00:31:16
Western Country and then even though coming from where you
00:31:22
come from uh you see that there's a lot of opportunity and people are still
00:31:27
there sitting complaining we don't have this this should be like that it should be like that you'll be like man this is
00:31:34
like more than all what I need you know because you at the point that you don't
00:31:42
need you don't just need what can be given to you what will be given to you is just a way is uh a what could be
00:31:51
given to you is just a way for you to uh a preach to help you get where you're
00:31:57
going because you have set um your goal Way Beyond what you you can get you how
00:32:07
long does it take you to get across the Sahara Desert across the Sahara Desert itself it took uh one day we didn't stay
00:32:17
our uh again we were lucky our car didn't broke up so they drove for about
00:32:24
I think 20 or 22 hours and eventually you get to Morocco and Morocco from Morocco you
00:32:31
need to get to Spain which is difficult that was the toughest part I spent almost one year in Morocco trying to get
00:32:37
to Spain yeah trying to get to Spain I did a lot of attempt uh in the in the
00:32:42
water and also in the in the fences when you were living in Morocco where were
00:32:47
you staying wherever you find in the desert uh in the forest uh it depend on like
00:32:56
what you're looking for you you know for example if you want to go to the fence try the fence to escalate the fence um
00:33:06
which is in Mia for the most part then you have to stay in the forest of gurugu it's like
00:33:14
living in the forest between trees you know and then you HT what are you
00:33:21
eating what you eating everything that you find sometime uh there are people
00:33:26
that can make trap and try uh get some animals but uh for the most part we will
00:33:32
wait nighttime to go to the market uh because the police is always around you
00:33:37
know the on the cover police we will wait for the night for night time go to the market go to the market trash and
00:33:45
then find like rot rotten stuff like that they throw away whether it's tomato
00:33:51
potatoes um chicken legs because they didn't eat chicken legs was the best in
00:33:57
for us so we will find stuff like that in the trash and go back in the forest
00:34:03
and try to make a meal how we don't have money were you try at that time were you trying to figure out learn how to get to
00:34:10
Europe were you trying to learn the best way because I can't imagine or did
00:34:16
someone tell you how to get to Europe there's a lot of people there that is trying to do the same thing it's not
00:34:23
just you you left your house by yourself but by the time you get to some
00:34:29
point you start meet people that are in the same journey and by the time you get
00:34:34
in Morocco there's a lot hundreds of people are you training at the time are
00:34:40
you trying to stay fit yeah sometime in the forest I mean you have nothing to do
00:34:45
you do pushup you do some apps but otherwise what would you
00:34:51
do and you were still dreaming of being a boxer even though you were oh yes that was that was the thing
00:34:58
I mean that was my motivation I think if he wasn't about that I wouldn't have left my
00:35:04
country he was just about that I did I never thought about
00:35:10
anything else so that was the reason where I left how did you how did you know you'd be
00:35:16
good at it I didn't know but he was about to find out I didn't know at all I had no idea I I
00:35:24
could have be very bad I could have be good so he was just about to give it a try
00:35:31
and if it doesn't work then at least a try you know I think is the is the most
00:35:37
important thing is to try and give it all and if it doesn't work then well we
00:35:44
reset you there's two ways to get to Spain you can go over the wall or you
00:35:50
can go across the water through the sea yeah and across the water could be very
00:35:58
dangerous dangerous and difficult sometime I try couple times did you try the wo yeah
00:36:06
the bobbed Wire yeah I Tred the Bob I have a lot of scar on me a lot of Bob wire scar on me really like those are BB
00:36:14
wies those you see my finger spit my finger into like on my skin you will
00:36:19
find on my stomach here on my feet I F I try I have a lot of that uh um I try to
00:36:28
I attempt in the ocean like uh six I fell six time what happens when you you
00:36:34
try and go over the bbwi fence is it did they catch you um where the the spot
00:36:40
that we picked because it's about like 12 or 14 miles of fence with B wire so
00:36:47
we will have like a Outlook guy that will go walk around all the those uh
00:36:52
fence and then like trying to identify a spot that there is not
00:36:58
too much bab wire or that the bab wire has fell you know uh and when there's
00:37:05
not a lot guard because there's guard on the Moroccan side and there's guard on
00:37:10
the spin side and some way there's like three fences and then bab Wi on like
00:37:17
maybe the first one or the two there's not a chance that unless you
00:37:24
can fly you cannot go there and it's like 7 m High 7 m High 7 m high so it's
00:37:31
it's not possible with bab wies without bab wies yeah that's good but and then
00:37:38
they clean the surrounded of the uh of fences so the guy have to stay like far
00:37:45
from the distance to trying to identify if there's a failure of bwire somewhere
00:37:53
you know so it's very difficult and uh on there's a police a Moroccan on the
00:38:01
Moroccan side there's like a boxes of um uh God mhm in like interval I don't know
00:38:09
maybe 20 M every 20 M there's a God 20 30 m there's a boxes of God sometimes
00:38:17
some boxes can be empty but from where we are you don't see need somebody to go
00:38:22
there like a Weg every time read everything monitor the um um uh all the
00:38:31
information you know like the the post the the guard how theyve been um the
00:38:38
schedule yeah how they been changed because it's permanent but one person
00:38:43
doesn't stay there 24 hours I think it's like 8 hours so you you have when you
00:38:48
spotted a spot that there's not so much bab then you'll be like okay there's a
00:38:54
Outlook very far there there's a Outlook from the spin side very far and then
00:39:00
these boxes is there guard inside he might take him days to just find if find
00:39:06
out if those boxes have God someday is going to go by and then like wait they
00:39:13
can stay in the same spot for like 2 days just to wait and then when the
00:39:19
truck come uh comes to uh change uh ship
00:39:26
for the gods to change for the god to shange shift and then he will see which
00:39:32
box have the God and which box does a have and then what time they come and
00:39:39
this what time they go if they pray what time they go to pray and he he you need
00:39:47
all those information before prepare a attack and you prep eventually you
00:39:52
prepared an attack for the fence yeah and sometime you prepare the attack
00:39:58
you see all those you collect all those information then as you are getting closer to the fence you realize that
00:40:05
there was a b wire you couldn't just see from where you were at MH you know or
00:40:11
that maybe there's someone that is in the floor they dig like 5 m long like
00:40:17
this wide and then they throw B wires all the way then you you ran you ran by
00:40:24
uh maybe 30 m or 100 100 m m they can see you coming they know that you're
00:40:31
coming now you are taking advantage on like because you in a group of a people
00:40:36
and then you get closer and then you find like 5 m back wire you can jump 5 m
00:40:42
it's not possible you know so so what you do you run back what you run back or
00:40:48
some by the time you run back uh if it's a group of you some people will fall in
00:40:53
the bow because they didn't see or maybe you in the front line you see but you
00:40:59
can't go back because there are people a mass behind you coming they just push
00:41:04
and then you fall inside the back wire did you ever try and climb the fence and did you get caught yeah I try to climb a
00:41:11
fence uh I get out of those B wires on the floor once the only and that was the
00:41:16
time that I fell in the B wire I trying to climb the fence but the bab on the
00:41:22
fence was painful big like I was trying to
00:41:28
hold it and he was just catching my face like like oh okay I
00:41:35
see like so and um I get to the point that I'm like you know I rather be aive
00:41:43
without being in Europe uh instead of being dead in Europe like wait it's going to be
00:41:50
another time it's not possible so you eventually decide that you want to go via the see
00:41:57
in a boat you're going to try and take a small little dingy yeah that was that was um I mean even before I tried the B
00:42:03
wire the first thing that I tried it was a boat and why did that not work I mean it's not like the boat is a small
00:42:10
inflatable boat that you can use in your swimming pool stuff that they use in the
00:42:16
swimming pool we call it dinghy you can put it in the swimming pool you get it in Walmart in Walmart yeah yeah exactly
00:42:22
so that's a you tried to cross from Morocco to Spain in one of these small inflatable boats um you couldn't swim no
00:42:31
I don't know how to swim but guess what I ended up being a captain captain of the what of the
00:42:38
boat because he's still need a captain he still need somebody to organize somebody that knows how to pattern
00:42:44
somebody know where we are going somebody know how to organize like for 10 people to get in the same boat from
00:42:51
uh going from the ground to the ocean and then like how do they they get all those organization and then I I practice
00:43:00
I did it so many time that I become I became an expert so you and I still don't know how
00:43:07
to swim you tried six times to get across mhm what happened in those six
00:43:12
times uh sometime we get caught the majority of time we get
00:43:17
caught and what does that what happens if you get caught they send you back to the desert they send you back to the
00:43:23
desert yeah to the desert uh not to Morocco no you are in Morocco you get caught by the
00:43:30
Morocco guard yeah but then they just bring you back to the city or something no because um they have been financed to
00:43:38
protect uh people from a b they have been financed uh by European union or
00:43:44
something like that from holding you guys down there so every time that the
00:43:49
uh cash somebody they make a report of that person uh that okay we C somebody
00:43:57
and then we send them back out of Morocco they will just bring you to the to Algeria Border in the desert and
00:44:03
throw you gu there and you will figure out your way so they throw you back in the desert without food every time you
00:44:09
got caught yeah I mean it's pretty pretty horrible
00:44:16
um why he's alive and uh even till today there's people out there still doing the
00:44:23
same thing and even though he's getting harder and harder I don't know how they do but I don't want to find out he
00:44:31
horrible so you would but then you you went back again and tried again for a seventh time why didn't you give up
00:44:37
you've tried defense the fense doesn't work you've tried Crossing six times in a small inflatable boat that doesn't
00:44:43
work why didn't you give up what for give up go back to Cameroon maybe live in what go back to
00:44:52
what didn't I get a job in cam in Morocco
00:44:59
uh why couldn't I why shouldn't I try again it was all about
00:45:05
trying and I think like when your dream is so big when you have something it's hard to give up you know like you get to
00:45:13
the point that you um you're capable of risking more
00:45:20
for Just a Dream which is something that a normal person would not understand
00:45:26
like I just ask myself now like why
00:45:31
didn't I give up at that time why do I keep doing this why did I take those
00:45:36
risk because there was a moment that even now I think about it I'm like that was stupid he was like a dead sentence
00:45:45
you just get lucky from coming out there alive you know but I took those decision
00:45:51
your dream was so big that he um blinds
00:45:57
you you couldn't see any anything else except what you have not what is in
00:46:03
front you couldn't see anything in front of you except what you have in your mind you could only see what is in your mind
00:46:10
and regardless what is in in front of you what um the obstacle is in front of
00:46:15
you you can only see what in front of in your mind and it could nothing could
00:46:20
stop you and what was that in your mind that was pulling you
00:46:25
dream dream to make it to go have that boxing you know uh that uh boxing
00:46:34
career um set up a stability for me and my family and my potential kids so they
00:46:42
don't have to go to what I been through you know so uh I knew that if I give up
00:46:50
I wouldn't be able to look at in myself in the mirror like this he would have be asham of to leave with myself I couldn't
00:46:58
leave with myself it was hot you thought about it you think about like oh maybe
00:47:04
maybe there's not a way what for like going back and then maybe some not
00:47:11
really have something to do and some day you see your your child get sick and you
00:47:17
you feel powerless just as your parent were to you I'm like no that's not
00:47:22
happening and then the seventh attempt was successful yeah take me take me to that
00:47:30
seventh attempt of getting across the sea to get to Europe you you get in the boat there's you and a couple of other
00:47:37
men you start paddling the sixth at the sixth attempt was close to the winter
00:47:45
okay we get caught and I was this close we were already on the other side we get caught
00:47:52
by a uh Army it wasn't even like a um um
00:47:59
uh the I don't know how the the Coast Guard
00:48:04
he wasn't even the Coast Guard he was the army with a big ship and they were just passing by going
00:48:10
somewhere after 3 hours inside the ocean we were paddling we knew that we are
00:48:15
getting there and then we get
00:48:21
caught back in Morocco they knew that we are gone we made
00:48:28
it and then um at that time he was like
00:48:33
close to Winter the winter was coming the water wasn't stable anymore we couldn't attempt
00:48:39
anymore and for me she was that I tell myself that the
00:48:45
day that I'm touching the ocean again I'm not coming back
00:48:51
ever I don't know exactly what I was with willing to do
00:48:57
but I'm like it's not happening this is it you know my frustration was top to
00:49:05
the level so we
00:49:11
uh we um recruit back in the forest trying those try fences or just stay
00:49:18
there during the winter because the water I mean yes you can try some crazy
00:49:25
stuff but only when you see that there's an ounce of a chance but when you look
00:49:31
at the oceans the big mon monster rising up with those waves you know that you
00:49:38
cannot go through there's no way no you can't do that a small boat on a on a
00:49:44
small inflatable boat and it's cold it's freezing so I think what was uh even
00:49:49
scary the most was the coal you would just get frozen out there you know so I
00:49:56
stayed in the forest for like months uh months and uh once when the U winter was
00:50:04
um by the touching the end I had a friend that people he was in t t and
00:50:12
then he reached out to me he said I have a I have a
00:50:18
ship let's go I couldn't leave Tang I
00:50:23
did everything I get to the bus station and was so much police and this I didn't
00:50:29
want to end up in in the desert in USDA I'm like okay just and then the next day one one uh
00:50:37
the next day um we are running from the police uh from 4:00 a.m. to like maybe
00:50:45
4:00 p.m. we came back to our spot I open my phone I saw like 12 M
00:50:52
call I checked and then he was like Ito made Ito was the guy that was
00:50:59
calling me I'm like damn I could have been making it too with them did they get
00:51:05
they got to Europe yeah they got to Europe like bro come on I couldn't sleep there anymore and I
00:51:13
have a lot of call and people was like yes we want you to be our captain you
00:51:18
this that that that I'm like I'm going you know and I didn't want any promises
00:51:23
like oh we going to do this buy a uh boat in one week or no I have a guy that
00:51:30
we've been talking for a long time he say I have a boat already I'm like let's go so you get on a boat an inflatable
00:51:37
boat I heard that you wrapped yourself in silver foil no no I didn't but um I
00:51:43
was planning um we put a life jacket though we had the one thing that we are
00:51:49
very um straight about is a life jacket yeah I didn't but because
00:51:57
over time you learn a lot of stuff and you know that those silver for uh would
00:52:03
deviate radiation from like a you know they have the red Rader yeah yeah yeah
00:52:08
so if you wear the silver then the the radar can't find you yeah the radar can find you he can see you because when the
00:52:14
radar is going like this and then he see like uh I think it's infrared or something and then he see movement he
00:52:23
like but when you have that se for you they can see you so that time tell me
00:52:29
about this successful Journey you get in the boat not you and a few other men you're the captain no we didn't get in a
00:52:35
boat I went to rabber which there were what's rabber a city okay there were I
00:52:42
went from uh NAD to Raba to meet them like okay when are we going to Tang
00:52:48
because I've been in I've been in t i I've been living in Tang for so long um
00:52:54
until winter that I went back to to NAD so they are living in a Raba which is
00:53:01
kind of like a city and they have those little job of construction I'm like when are we going I meet them there and like
00:53:08
okay let's go I'm like oh we are still working we're going to get paid on Saturday and this is what when like I
00:53:15
think this was like Tuesday I'm like bro I'm not staying here until Saturday bro
00:53:21
bro my blood was boiling like I'm like man I miss this I could
00:53:28
have been making it with uh with it with the other guy that called me so
00:53:36
we the the leader the the head guy of the group he said okay then I'll go with
00:53:42
you uh because I was a captain I I need to go and check the place and everything
00:53:48
say I'll go with you the rest of people they can wait until we give everything is good we give them uh sign so they can
00:53:57
come we move by the time we touch ground we are stepping down of the bus in
00:54:04
Tangier I got sick I got a fever and we are going to
00:54:10
this house inside mod we have to take our shoes off walk inside mod to get
00:54:17
into this house to sleep something like that and I was sick bro but I can't tell
00:54:24
anybody that I'm sick I'm the captain and people saw me in t I'm like
00:54:31
wow this guy is here he's going to make it he's not coming back so they trying to bribe the the guy that I was to get
00:54:39
them in the in the group and you I'm like no we collect the money together to
00:54:44
buy um to buy the boat so I can uh kick
00:54:50
take anybody out of it uh I'm like if uh because they call me vam they say if
00:54:56
vanam is the captain you guys are not coming back you're going to make it and
00:55:02
I was sick nobody knows so long story short uh we've been
00:55:09
there for like couple days and I didn't even have any money to eat and then uh but I check internet
00:55:18
every day to check the weather the weather to see how the ocean is and he
00:55:25
wasn't so was terrible and I found one day I think was Tuesday and he was the
00:55:31
second April 2nd 2013 and I say this day is good because
00:55:38
this is the speed of the wind this is the uh direction of the wind this this I
00:55:43
know that thing I don't know how I know it but by the time I knew it properly I was a
00:55:49
captain so I say tell your guy to come this day because we uh because we are
00:55:54
leaving by the time they come with the boat we are not sleeping here with the boat we have to just be going with the
00:56:01
boat because it's a very even the police when they like uh bust into houses they
00:56:08
will search for that mhm and they came we get to the to the to where we were
00:56:14
going next to where we were going but the police car was up there so we couldn't inflate here and then put the
00:56:21
raffle inside the ocean without them seeing us now we have to make a
00:56:28
detour all night long we make a detour to go somewhere in the
00:56:33
front and uh even though I was sick usually Captain you don't carry stuff
00:56:39
because they protect you for the big action for the main action which is inside the ocean and
00:56:46
then while we are making these dets some people are being left behind and this I'm like bro where's the where is the
00:56:53
boat where is the RAF they say oh it's here is to this guy I'm like bring that raffle if you stay back stay alone don't
00:57:00
stay don't stay back with the raffle I take that thing I like if
00:57:05
somebody want to go he has to cash up with me I just lead the way and keep going and all night we go up and then
00:57:13
finally go down to the um step and find a place and it was all
00:57:20
rocks and I'm there you know we used to go to where to
00:57:25
the beach so there is a sand MH it's easier because like when you walk to the sand like this to go inside water and
00:57:32
every footstep get you deeper and deeper now you are in the middle of rocks and
00:57:39
then the ocean is there you don't know how deep is the ocean there and how you going to get in that ocean you want just
00:57:45
you can just jump like this to get in the ocean and then uh the wave was so
00:57:50
strong you you will he like
00:57:56
like damn was it night time yeah early in the morning okay because we are
00:58:01
waiting we are aiming to do this when uh they call for 5:00 a.m. prayer okay yeah
00:58:09
but we get little late because because of those day too but I'm the captain I'm the one that
00:58:17
everybody's expecting on me and he will we were he was uh nine of
00:58:22
us so I I tell them okay with me here here let me um um find a
00:58:31
place you know when something is yours is yours I walked around and I get
00:58:39
somewhere in the middle of rocks I found a spot just big as big as this table
00:58:47
enough to inflate the boat just enough no more than that and he was like this
00:58:53
clean I touch it it there wasn't anything sharp on it just like that
00:58:59
enough I went back and called the other guys like let's go they came I'm like
00:59:05
okay let's infl the boat eventually the boat Gets In The Water you go yeah and
00:59:10
the boat is rescued by the American Red Cross by the Red Cross don't know if it
00:59:15
was I we know there was a Red Cross base in in Spain in did you get to you got to
00:59:21
Spain we didn't get there but we know that there's a Red Cross inside ocean in fact okay in fact we have their numbers
00:59:29
so you knew there was a Red Cross there so you got close to Spain yeah and then the Red Cross came and got you we get
00:59:36
far from the uh Moroccan Coast but we don't know where is the limit but we just get far from this coast and then
00:59:44
trying to get as far as possible uh inside the ocean and call but the
00:59:49
problem is that you're in the middle of the ocean and even though it's where L
00:59:55
the two the closest distance of the two continent uh from this side you can see
01:00:02
the other side but in the midor of the ocean when they say where are you what are you seeing you can really give them
01:00:08
a Direction so sometime because their goal is just to rescue you their goal is not to bring you to Spain and if they
01:00:15
cannot find you they will even call a Moroccan Coast uh coast guard for uh
01:00:21
help and if you know you're lucking day you get fined by Moroccan CU God you know where you're going you're going
01:00:28
back to so we P like for one I think it was like
01:00:36
hour and a half almost 2 hours and then there was a helicopter uh in in front of us and he
01:00:45
was like standing there like he was looking about something and I tell the
01:00:50
guy that okay this not a good sign whether this helicopter can play against us or he can play for us what we do call
01:00:58
we call now because when they ask if they ask what are you seen we will see the elicopter is right above us and then
01:01:06
we call so you called the Red Cross we called the Red Cross you called the Red Cross yes and what did you say for the
01:01:13
restroom oh we are in the inside the ocean we need help and then I don't know we pick up
01:01:20
the phone and start to ask if we have yes how many people do you have a lady
01:01:26
in the boat and this I'm like what the hell is this problem we are human being
01:01:31
and I'm like yes we have ladies even kids we didn't have kids we have ladies
01:01:38
I'm like what's that what's different that makes like you will just let off us here because like yes even kids and say
01:01:46
okay what are you seeing we see we we see the helicopter right above say Okay
01:01:53
welcome in did and they found you yeah and then right after that it started
01:01:59
rain and the water really get bad he was moving now we are in the middle of the
01:02:05
ocean in this little uh boat just as like this table and he's like going
01:02:14
all we TI get tied in the middle we were it was nine of us how long did it take
01:02:20
for the Red Cross to find you uh like 10 10 to 15 minutes it's quick
01:02:28
yeah and they they take yeah I think a little more maybe like 20 minutes and
01:02:34
they take you to Spain and then when they when they find us because now he
01:02:39
was little harder to find us because it was raining and the ocean wasn't stable you know when the ocean is stable you
01:02:45
can see something from far away now this is there something crazy that happened
01:02:51
inside the ocean like from the coast the ocean is flat when you get inside at
01:02:57
some point bro ocean has Mountain like there's a way that you're
01:03:03
climbing and then until you get to the Peck and then there's a way that you're going down inside the ocean I don't know
01:03:10
how it works but it's exactly like that and you can see like a h Mountain inside
01:03:16
the ocean and they they took you to Spain yeah they found us uh and then
01:03:23
took us in their in their boat they have a real boat you know like solid big boat
01:03:29
that took us inside and then uh brought
01:03:34
us to their um headquarter which is in in Spain and you stayed in Spain in a
01:03:42
Detention Center in a cell with 10 or 20 other men um for two months yes it was
01:03:47
like I think uh 53 days how were you treated
01:03:56
treated we were eating but it was a prison though it was quite a prison I
01:04:02
think you get to the point that you I'm like maybe they should have just let us inside the ocean
01:04:08
or maybe we were better in in Morocco because you locked you can do anything
01:04:16
you you realize that you had freedom even though your life wasn't the best
01:04:24
that's when I mean you here you're getting Feit every day but they tell you where when to eat
01:04:32
when to shower when to go sleep when to go out and
01:04:38
everything and after like um couple weeks it started to become hot because
01:04:44
at first you excited I'm like oh I made it you're excited you I'm in Spain I'm
01:04:50
in Europe but after a couple weeks I'm like come on man like I need my sentence
01:04:56
now because if you you had a fake idea at one point and if you oh
01:05:02
no when you get caught you make sure that you don't even have a receipt or whatever on you so you threw it in the
01:05:09
water oh yeah when did you throw it in the water when you saw the Red Cross coming I no when you're sure that the Red Cross will get you because otherwise
01:05:17
that will be your way out in Morocco sometime he can prevent you not to be
01:05:22
through in the desert when did they they released you from the Detention Center in Spain yes eventually after almost two
01:05:30
months and they gave you 50 no not from the Detention Center
01:05:35
there is a Association that come charity for refuges some organization that are
01:05:41
out there so they will come take you and then bring you to their uh place and
01:05:47
where did you where did you want to go what was the plan so you're now in Spain you're free you've got
01:05:53
50 so my plan first of all was to go to first I wanted to go to the UK MH but I
01:06:00
knew that even though I'm in Europe the free circulation in Europe will not
01:06:06
allows me to get in the UK because they are not in the that zone in the shenen
01:06:11
zone so I think I started for Germany because I wanted a place that boxing was
01:06:16
big but for somehow I was in a group of people that most of them they like oh we
01:06:22
are going to France oh Shan all this all that and in the 9th of June 2013 26
01:06:28
years old now you arrive in Paris and I read that on your first day in
01:06:35
Paris um you figured out how where to eat where to sleep and you found a boxing gym where did you sleep when you
01:06:40
arrived in Paris in the parking lot you slept slept in a parking lot yeah how long did you sleep in the parking lot
01:06:46
for like two months for two months you slept in a parking lot how did you how did you so you arrive in Paris you're
01:06:53
sleeping in a car park um how do you find a gym pay for a gym oh next day I
01:07:01
was after it so I finally get where I could start that dream that I've been having for a decade what did you do did
01:07:08
you just walk up to the boxing gym and say hey can I come here for free yeah basically what I I worked in
01:07:13
the front des and they gave me this um form and then I saw the price and
01:07:19
everything and I couldn't afford it now I'm like can I talk to a coach to the boxing coach and the ladies said the
01:07:25
boxing coach is not there today but uh he has his substitute is there
01:07:33
you can talk to him and we I just explain straightforward like okay I arrived in Paris yesterday I don't have
01:07:40
where to sleep you know but all what I want I want a place to train so that's why I wanted to see a boxing a coach if
01:07:48
you can let me train here because I have no money uh I have nowhere to sleep I have nothing but the only thing that I'm
01:07:54
asking for is a place to train because I want to become a world champion straightforward
01:08:00
that was it and he said um if you have a phone number give me
01:08:08
your phone number I'll speak to a boxing coach he'll be here on Wednesday and I'll give you a call
01:08:13
back that's how I gave him my phone number I had a phone and then on Thursday morning he
01:08:21
called me and he said yes I spoke to the coach and he agreed that you can come and train and the next training uh is
01:08:28
Saturday and that's how he started did kment yeah d k did a come on was that
01:08:34
man that you met that day in the boxing gym that gave you a chance yeah and he let you train for
01:08:39
free how he speak on my behalf to the coach who let me let you train yeah and
01:08:45
they gave you new pair of shoes I read that he gave you keys to an apartment to sleep in as well uh yes after like two
01:08:53
months uh he gave me he gave me a key he has like one apartment that uh he was uh
01:09:01
I think was ABNB or renting out and then he get free for coule is and at time I
01:09:06
think uh he knows me a little bit more and he gave me that apartment for almost two months he he changed your life
01:09:14
didn't he because if he hadn't have said yes if he hadn't have introduced you to the person if he hadn't help have helped
01:09:20
you he helped me a lot he helped me a lot changed my life I think is too much
01:09:25
say but he helped me a lot um I mean we were at the gym and then he knows
01:09:31
exactly my situation because I was uh clear to him telling him everything but
01:09:36
other people at the gym didn't know and in fact he he at some point even tell me that you don't have to tell your story
01:09:42
to everybody they don't need to know your situation you know like why did he help you why did he help you because he
01:09:50
was kind he just like me and like to help me and uh
01:09:55
hear me a lot it's because he didn't have a a reason no he didn't a lot of
01:10:01
people will have expectation that maybe at time you would you would not know but later on you will
01:10:07
find out but he was just genuine you never have like a expectation you know
01:10:14
in fact sometime he's the guy that sometime you will even call you will not
01:10:19
he will not be around shut down his phone and everything he's always been
01:10:24
like that because it was quite difficult to become a boxer in France without having all of the correct identity
01:10:30
papers he eventually suggests that you take up mixed martial arts as a way to make some quick money um and in 2013 26
01:10:38
years old you went to the MMA Factory in France and introduced your coach
01:10:43
yourself to a coach called Fernand Lopez and within four months I mean he saw
01:10:48
something especially in you in terms of MMA and within four months of that you had your first MMA fight yeah
01:10:55
what did you think when you first saw the sport of MMA did you had you ever heard of MMA before no so DJ was the
01:11:02
first one to talk to me about MMA I'm like oh yes you have a good striking if you do MMA I'm like what is MMA it's
01:11:10
Mar okay good then what's that what's mix Mas say yes it's like boxing with
01:11:16
wrestling with this I'm like ah I think I have seen that once on the TV I was
01:11:23
watching TV I see something like that that like yes if you have if you learn some good wrestling some take down
01:11:30
defense little bit of a grappling and this I'm like what's grappling to explain the whole thing to
01:11:37
me and this is back in 2013 June 2013 and I'm like bro nah
01:11:45
that's not what I want I want you know the Mike Tyson boxing right so yes I'm
01:11:50
like that's what I want you fought five times in Europe before you were signed
01:11:56
for the UFC which is quite remarkable because a lot of people spend many many many many years trying to get into the
01:12:01
UFC you fought just five times in Europe before you were offered a chance to
01:12:07
fight in the UFC I didn't even I wasn't even planning to go to the
01:12:12
UFC and uh but as soon as I start I started to fight in France then it
01:12:19
became it became very hard for me to have a fight in France people didn't want to fight me fight me why oh they
01:12:26
say I'm brutal and I'm like it's a fighting
01:12:32
game I mean the the goal is to be brutal
01:12:37
and then I'm not having fight because I'm brutal like I heard your coach he
01:12:43
actually posted on Facebook saying um asking if anyone in Europe wanted to fight you the post is will anybody in
01:12:49
Europe fight Francis yes nobody wanted to fight you I mean no anybody at that
01:12:57
level because even though a lot of people didn't want to fight me I was still unexperienced
01:13:03
so he's not like they will give just give me to anybody but nobody either
01:13:09
like want to take a risk there's not a gain for a elite fighter to fight me
01:13:14
he's risking of losing everything but not a not quite a lot to gain were you
01:13:20
aiming to be in the UFC cuz you now you knew what MMA was but when you started becom an MMA fighter were you trying to
01:13:27
get into the UFC no how did that happen I was just like you know training uh
01:13:32
because I I had time I uh I was jobless so I have all my time and I like to train and I found MMA I found MMA very
01:13:41
uh exciting I like all those stuff so I was training boxing MMA and then I start
01:13:46
to fight MMA and sometime maybe I will have like um couple hundred Euro
01:13:54
fighting uh MMA who who was very welcome at the at the time so I'm like let's do
01:14:00
this but that was it and people keep saying oh if you improve your Jujitsu if you do this you're going to become a UFC
01:14:07
champion like then what I really like I was so focused on
01:14:13
boxing and then um but I think like MMA came to me and gave me that opportunity
01:14:20
and then all of the sudden I'm here I have the UFC contract ra how did that
01:14:26
happen how did that happen did they call you or your agent or your manager so I
01:14:31
think um uh Fernando a guy that was a manager at time uh he uh Thiago okay
01:14:41
Thiago okamura okay yeah and then he was the guy that was uh pitching me to the
01:14:48
UFC okay so your manager your coach knew someone who was pitching you to the UFC
01:14:53
yeah manager okay and then that's how I get uh that's how I get the UFC contract where was
01:15:01
your first fight in the UFC Orlando Orlando yeah was that your first time in America yeah uh it was the first time
01:15:09
and I remember like uh I get there and I'm like okay and uh there was
01:15:17
somebody at the airport with a tablet with my name on it and then picked me up
01:15:22
with a Cadillac brought me to the hotel the H I had residency they check me in
01:15:30
brought me to my room how did it feel then I call home I call my mom I'm
01:15:35
like I don't know what it is but I think your son have made
01:15:41
it finally get to that like I mean like I get to America basically so that's
01:15:48
what because for so many years America was the dream to get in America and I
01:15:55
get in America and in a big way not the way that I get in Europe because I get in Europe in the service door I get in
01:16:02
America basically on on the red carpet that was it that was
01:16:10
2015 2015 how much that first fight do you does that that first fight make you
01:16:16
rich no you don't get paid much for the first UFC fight yeah he was $10,000 plus
01:16:22
10,000 uh win bonus and then with all the commissions you got out with almost
01:16:28
just half uh but he wasn't he wasn't
01:16:34
about the fight he was more about like I think me coming to America and all the
01:16:40
stuff he was more than what I was making in the fight that's nine years after you
01:16:46
left Cameroon you fought for the UFC heavyweight championship belt and eventually you won that belt
01:16:54
and you you held that UFC heavyweight title yeah but I lost I I fought before yeah you fought quite a lot yes I fought
01:17:01
in uh 2018 yeah yeah um but eventually you won the same guy yeah I lost I've
01:17:08
I've watched your career so I've watched the journey and it felt like for the first start of your career I don't know it felt like maybe you weren't as
01:17:14
focused but then it felt like this this other half of your UFC career something had changed I was focused it's just that
01:17:21
I didn't I never I never done sport before I didn't grow up as the athlete
01:17:26
so I didn't know how how they do I didn't know how they train I didn't know how to prepare for a championship I
01:17:32
didn't know anything so I was just out there trying and then in that fight I
01:17:39
did a lot of mistake and I learned from it and I'm like okay the good thing I
01:17:46
might have lost this fight but this fight would be the biggest um fight in
01:17:51
my career because everything that is coming after this fight everything that
01:17:57
I'm learn that I learned in this fight I will Implement that in my game in my
01:18:02
career uh from now on and he'll be quite helpful you have the hardest punch ever
01:18:09
recorded by the UFC the equivalent of 93 horsepower a smart car by comparison
01:18:14
maxes out at 80 horsepower and they called you the Predator you did
01:18:20
eventually win the UFC heavyweight title and you held it between 21 to 2021 and
01:18:26
2023 and eventually you left the UFC in January
01:18:31
2023 because of basically a dis a disagreement with with the UFC with Dana
01:18:37
White about I guess freedom and money yes freedom and uh
01:18:44
treatment the way that uh I was being treated I didn't like it was there ever
01:18:51
a moment where you realized that you'd really made it
01:18:58
you know you're you're a young man that come from Cameroon walk you walked your way out of the you know through Africa
01:19:05
and then you got on a boat and went to Spain and then from Spain to Paris then from Paris to America and then you you
01:19:11
reach the highest mountain which is you win the UFC heavyweight title which is like the peak of fighting was there a
01:19:18
moment where you you thought I've I've made it it's not like you reach the higher Mountain you know uh
01:19:25
whatever Mountain you are on top there's always then when you get in The Pick of
01:19:30
a mountain you realize there's another Mountain that's higher you know and um
01:19:37
you realize that what motivate you what keep you going wasn't the peak of the
01:19:43
mountain but he was the peak of all Mountain so then you keep is never a
01:19:49
satisf satisfaction even though you you take a a moment I'm like oh finally make
01:19:55
it to the top you know you take a breath but you know that you will keep going
01:20:01
it's I think it's a mindset that uh you have and basically will not stop like
01:20:08
you don't have a limit you don't have a place that you say okay if I get here
01:20:13
then I'm done there's always something uh around there's always
01:20:18
something which is set as a higher Mountain you know so but I think
01:20:25
um what I do is to take time you know I like to go home a lot and I like to go
01:20:32
back on my path and uh every step every time I'll be there I'm like thinking of
01:20:38
the moment that I was there like maybe 15 years ago and he will feel like he was just yesterday and I will trying to
01:20:45
see like where I am today you know see the differ that's exactly when I
01:20:50
realized because when I'm here I'm just living like it's normal like is everybody like he was just like this all
01:20:57
the time but when I get back I connect with the with the past and then I
01:21:03
realize how far uh the road has been and you've you've really gone I mean it's
01:21:09
been a an incredible J has your mother ever seen you fight in the UFC has she ever been there no I triy I trying to
01:21:15
get her uh to my fight back in 2019 she couldn't get a visa she get uh denied
01:21:22
twice and I'm like okay okay this is so stressful I'm not doing it again it was also embarrassing stressful
01:21:32
one and even for her it was very tough and I'm like okay I'm not putting her to this again uh there will be a moment I
01:21:40
think if I set up if I set set things up pretty good there will be a moment that
01:21:46
things will be easier for her to see me fight why are you fighting why are you
01:21:52
fighting now I mean you you made I mean the reason you left the UFC was because of Freedom issues and you didn't like
01:21:59
the treatment you wanted to be free the argument you had with Dana um you know you say
01:22:05
that essentially you you weren't willing to um comply with the the system of the
01:22:12
UFC where you don't really have the option to go and box and do other things Dana White said that you're in a place
01:22:17
where you wanted to take less risks and you wanted to fight lesser opponents for more money so we're going to let him do
01:22:24
that is that true do you agree with what he said he said you wanted to take less
01:22:29
risks and fight other opponents lesser opponents to make more money I think if
01:22:35
we have to spend time to talk about like what Dana White say if it's true or not
01:22:40
we're going to spend a whole night here and then don't be okay with a lot of
01:22:46
thing um I think the situation was a little bit embarrassing for him and then
01:22:52
he was going to make it statement and find his way out less of opinion like
01:22:59
living my comfortable life uh career in MMA that I'm quite comfortable into to
01:23:07
step into boxing to take the best for my first uh boxing match which I never
01:23:13
really do a professional boxing match that does that sound like a easy
01:23:18
fight I mean I think he has to say something and um those who knows uh
01:23:25
those who know know that he has just has to say something to get out of that situation the truth what's the
01:23:32
truth easy he didn't want to um compromise he didn't want to change and
01:23:38
I feel like that situation wasn't good for me and uh I tell myself if that's
01:23:45
the end then let it be I I mean in fact I had no guarantee
01:23:51
that the boxing that I've been dreaming of doing I I will have to do it it will happen at the time but uh I didn't just
01:23:59
want to comply and do thing that I'm not okay with just because they led me with
01:24:06
that one option to say yes with things that I don't like that was the thing I I
01:24:13
was very aware that uh that could be it but he has to
01:24:18
be on my term and even though he means like going back to Africa you know you
01:24:24
know I don't know Farm I I love F farming I always love uh
01:24:31
farm and if that mean I had to go back and farm I was okay with it so I made my
01:24:38
peace with myself uh at time and that's why I stood with my decision I turned
01:24:44
down a lot of money that I didn't have at time I was for the most part I was
01:24:49
broke I was living uh out of loan
01:24:54
so yes you're the heavyweight champion of the world in the UFC you're broke I
01:25:02
mean not that broke when I say I was broke I mean for for a he for a heavyweight champion I
01:25:08
wasn't comfor millionaire yeah I wasn't comfortable uh were you a
01:25:15
millionaire maybe but uh never made a million a fight but um the most you made
01:25:22
was £500,000 except except except if I have accept to um to sign a new contract
01:25:30
I would have been having a lot of money but that contract was coming with a lot of thing that I was fighting against and
01:25:37
uh that's why I didn't sign so I'm like okay whatever this deal is whatever this Contra is I'm fighting this Contra of um
01:25:46
instead of renewing the Contra for and have more money and really have nothing
01:25:52
changed that mean I'm setting my myself up for another for another years in the
01:25:57
same situation that uh I'm giving away all the power in a contract that is not
01:26:04
giving me any power the power you wanted was Freedom yeah was Freedom was it
01:26:12
possibility to say okay this is not right you can do this you know or you have to do this you have I mean I I I
01:26:19
need a obligation I don't want a one-side contract I don't want a contract that okay there's uh I have no
01:26:29
right but in the other hand the other side of the table have no obligation so
01:26:35
in fact uh I mean I'm giving everything for
01:26:42
nothing just for money I want some of that leverage so you wanted to be able
01:26:48
to decide and you wanted not like to decide but I want I want at least some
01:26:54
some responsibility on the other side showing toward me you know I want some
01:26:59
some responsibility for example when I come to like say
01:27:05
healthare for that level for the money that I could have been making uh for the money that I would have be making if I
01:27:12
had signed that contract I could have have any kind of healthare that I want but at the same time I also want
01:27:21
the guy on the other side of the table to take some responsibility I'm like okay I'm giving you a healthare for
01:27:28
example so you wanted some something like healthcare included yeah yeah I want stuff like that I want something
01:27:35
like a guarantee since I'm making this of a as a living and I'm exclusive to
01:27:41
you you guarantee me that whenever I could fight you find something for me
01:27:46
you are obligated to give me a fight know that because if I don't sign a contract and you want me to sign and you
01:27:52
want me to run out of money and craw back to you because I need those money then you staff me and not
01:27:59
give me a fight you know even though you know that even know that you you know that I might need two just because you
01:28:06
know that I might need two or three fight to make a living to keep off up my lifestyle then uh you strengthen back
01:28:14
down to one fight so I will be needing money and then will be forced to take a
01:28:20
contract that I don't want just because I need money so I want to make sure I'm super clear on this you you essentially
01:28:26
wanted a guarantee of fights within the contract so that you could a guarantee
01:28:31
of Engagement I'm giving everything I'm giving up all my right exclusivity exclusivity and go and do anything else
01:28:38
but I really yes but you are not committed to anything so okay so I'm the UFC I'm not committed to anything but
01:28:45
you have to give up your exclusivity yeah and I'm not even guaranteeing that I'm going to give you and then some some
01:28:51
exclusivity in that contract said in forever yeah to exclusive forever in
01:28:57
certain situations but at the same time you really have not obligation but I
01:29:03
have no responsibility obligation to give you anything yeah so it's really one-sided yeah okay so if if you decide
01:29:10
not to give me a fight for two years I can't say anything and you'd starve but if you if you call me and say oh you
01:29:17
have a fight in uh okay I have a fight I want you to fight in one month and I'm say oh I'm hurt then you have right to
01:29:24
say okay I extend your contract for 6 month oh okay so if you turn down a fight then they can extend the contract
01:29:29
for and doesn't matter the reason for any reason so you could be and and and there's nobody will be consulted for
01:29:36
that if that's fair or not they make the decision so you so I could know that you
01:29:41
were sick and I could offer you a fight knowing that you couldn't take it and that would extend the contract six months
01:29:47
yeah so you decided to quit and you knew that when you quit you could lose everything you there was no guarantee
01:29:53
that you could could go there's not a bigger fighting League I decided to leave not to quit Okay you decided to leave um and when you left did you have
01:30:01
a plan not really how do you feel about the UFC now
01:30:08
I don't know I think they do business how is good for them they they do a good
01:30:14
business for themsel I just wanted to do what's good for me
01:30:19
too and you went on to do the impossible once again in your life because you know
01:30:25
many people thought that maybe you were you were gone now you were gone from fighting but
01:30:31
then after that it was announced that you'd be fighting Tyson Fury in a boxing
01:30:36
match who is the World Heavyweight Champion of boxing and by many people's account you know I watched the fight as
01:30:43
well I stayed up in the UK and watched it um you beat him you didn't beat him on the
01:30:50
scorecard but I think in every sense of the word you beat him and for that fight you got paid I read many times more for
01:30:58
that one fight than you got paid in your entire UFC career yes from one fight
01:31:04
with Tyson Fury yeah uh and even in my he would have be a
01:31:12
Tyson Fury fight or he would have be a PF fight I knew that uh from that moment
01:31:20
uh every fight that I will make will I will be pay more than what I've have
01:31:26
been making my entire career why because uh my last year years in the
01:31:34
UFC I could have been making more if I have accept the contract so I
01:31:42
basically live left a lot of money on the table in order to gain my freedom I
01:31:48
bought my freedom basically you know the they said that they said freedom is not
01:31:53
given it's not given freedom is not free you have to give something in order to
01:31:58
get that so that's why at that point I make so less of a money because I refuse I
01:32:07
turn down a lot of money but it worked out it worked in the
01:32:12
end because you got paid more in that Fury fight than you ever lucky yeah and then I read that for the fight with
01:32:19
Anthony Joshua you earned about 15 million pounds which is almost 20 million true I don't know I haven't
01:32:27
count yet so I can't I can't say if it's true
01:32:34
this is I mean but it's not true it's not true yeah but you earned a lot of money right
01:32:39
yeah lifechanging amounts of money what's life changing I don't know enough
01:32:45
money 1,000 can't change life depend of where we are standing from you're
01:32:50
speaking from my side or from your side or from moai you give you give 10 million to somebody
01:32:57
it's just another 10 million and he won't change anything in his life and you give 1,000 to somebody he change his
01:33:05
life he save his life he would take that 1,000
01:33:10
maybe send his kid at school or maybe buy them some medicine save them from
01:33:17
illness or something so lifechanging money is not the amount why are you
01:33:22
still why are you you still fighting then cuz you don't you don't need to F why why I start fighting you have to
01:33:28
find in order to know why I I'm still fighting you have to know why I start
01:33:34
fighting why why is that I love fighting you're not doing it for the
01:33:41
money no when I start fighting there wasn't money I fought a lot of fight for
01:33:47
free that I had no not a pennies and what is your goal now with fighting you
01:33:54
you've done it I mean you've done it you you did the UFC you've done boxing as I said there's always a
01:34:00
challenge there's always like could this be possible can I done this can I you
01:34:08
know like what's the what's my limit how far can I go I think I think whatever we
01:34:15
do in life is a shame if we end up not really find our full potential or not
01:34:22
giving it up you know I I think I going to give give all everything that I have
01:34:29
then I go home but as long as I still feel like I have something for fighting
01:34:36
I have some to give to the fighting Community uh I go to the gym I get
01:34:42
excited I wake up I think of training and I get excited like oh this is it I
01:34:47
still have that motivation that fire in me then I keep doing it you know I go to
01:34:54
the gym I train I think like oh I learned something I have some improvement you know or there's
01:34:59
something that I really want to understand how it works or how want to master yes I think it works like
01:35:07
that we have to remember that is not just fighting it's a martial
01:35:14
art fighting is a martial art and martial art never end before uh MMA came
01:35:21
around you will see people character kungu ta they doing it for like 6 until they
01:35:27
are 60 70 80 they are still doing it because it's a passion every single time
01:35:33
you eat you have an opportunity to improve your health and that's why I love Zoe because Zoe helps me to make
01:35:39
the smartest food choices for me and my body and as you guys will know by now Zoe is a sponsor of this podcast and I'm
01:35:45
an investor in the company and if you haven't tried Zoe I highly recommend you do because Zoe combines My Health Data
01:35:51
with Zoe's worldclass science and using those two things Zoe guides me to Better
01:35:57
Health every single time I make a food choice and eat which means that I have more energy better sleep better mood and
01:36:03
I'm less hungry and the most important thing is Zoe actually works it's backed by their recent clinical trial something
01:36:09
called the method study which is the gold standard of scientific research I started Zoe just over a year ago now and
01:36:15
I've been able to track my progress week after week so I can learn how to be even smarter the following week and if you
01:36:21
haven't joined Zoe yet I'm giving you 10 % off when you join Zoe now just use the code ce10 at
01:36:30
checkout when you left Cameroon you had a really clear goal you had this Vision a really really clear
01:36:36
goal what is that to stand to stand on top of the mountain and you stood on top of the mountain but there's the biggest
01:36:43
mountain there's always the biggest mountain there's always a mountain ahead that is big what is the big mountain in
01:36:49
front of you now what's coming what is that another
01:36:54
fight do you do you want to become the heavyweight champion of the world in boxing as well uh or it that's never be
01:37:02
my goal my goal was really because I was aware of the situation my last fight my first fight in boxing was less than year
01:37:09
ago octob October 20 uh 23 and I was
01:37:15
what already 37 it's not a moment in your life that
01:37:22
you're expecting to have a career into a combat sport like boxing you know he was
01:37:28
just like okay what can I do and I think that question still stand and even for
01:37:34
MMA I think there's a lot of thing for me I've been doing even MMA for just
01:37:40
like what 11 years and I think I still have so a lot of thing to learn to
01:37:46
experiment to to show in a fight I think I still have a lot and I still have that
01:37:52
passion I'm um I'm not very young but I still have
01:37:58
couple years in front of me to be doing it because after this you have to
01:38:03
remember that after this maybe by the time I'm 40 42 then I'm retired what a early
01:38:12
retirement we only have that short window of a time then at 42 like is a
01:38:19
time that most people career just pick up but we are forced to retire by that
01:38:25
time so why would I just like do what I can do until then and see how far I can
01:38:30
go you fought Tyson many people think you won the fight incredible fight um
01:38:37
you fought anti Joshua you lost that fight um and I think at the end at the end of that fight Anthony actually says
01:38:43
he says you should you need to carry on boxing you need to carry on going and I think that's the sentiment that everyone has no I'm I'm I'm carrying on I don't
01:38:51
really uh take that fight as a note because um not to say I
01:38:58
mean you cannot you you will be a fool if you're going to fight basically in
01:39:04
boxing somebody like Anthony Joshua and don't think that you can lose right or
01:39:10
trying to make an excuse of losing if there's a somebody that you can lose against in a combat sport then he's
01:39:18
somebody like Anthony Joshua right but um honestly on that fight there was in
01:39:24
lot of unfairness you know and then uh which
01:39:31
might have been for something or not but there was a lot of unfairness unlike the
01:39:37
Tyson fight that everything was straight and I think nobody was giving me a chance and then the everything was
01:39:46
fair um no sneaky stuff but the second one he was so messy
01:39:55
what you mean a lot of tricks like that will get you everywhere
01:40:02
that I was going in that week I have to wait at least 1 Hour 1 hour and a half
01:40:07
before the beginning or before Antony Joshua arrived but they they always send a car to pick me up like that amount of
01:40:15
time even the F day the Friday I stay in the locker room for 4 hour and half 4 hours and and
01:40:24
half they send a car to pick me up pick up time 10:30 because you're supposed to fight
01:40:30
they telling me up front I supposed to fight around midnight and 100 p.m. so
01:40:37
pick up time 1: a.m. yes on 1:00 a.m. sorry pick up time uh
01:40:44
10:30 it's like okay good it's how it works is that amount of time then you
01:40:51
get in the arena they're like oh yeah there's a there's a producer like oh we are we are running behind uh clock
01:41:00
on the broadcasting so we might be fighting at 1:45 okay it's not that bad I've been
01:41:07
training to fight in that time frame in around 1 p.m. 1:00
01:41:14
a.m. bro we are sitting there and then watching Antony Joshua arrive in
01:41:21
the arena at 1 1:30 like how come you tell me that with
01:41:27
you guys tell me that I'm going to fight around midnight and 1:00 or that is
01:41:34
delayed are going to fight at 1:45 and then he's now just arrive when he arrive we know that it's
01:41:42
about 2 hours before there is a fight you don't get in the arena 1 hour before the fight no it's 2 hours is the aage
01:41:51
and stuff like that they did the L lot again not to say I couldn't lost the
01:41:57
fight but do you think they were doing that intentionally yeah you you think that
01:42:04
yeah I said the whole week it was like that they were wasting your time I mean I think it's a trick I didn't know
01:42:11
before but I think it's a is a trick that they have in boxing they have a lot
01:42:16
of tricks and uh in fact like in the in the week during the week my coach doing
01:42:22
because he a very C person and he was like he get to the point that he was uh really mad and was yelling about it like
01:42:29
no this how you get to get you do to get fter tired and I'm like no it's okay I
01:42:35
didn't know how deep was the problem you know until I get in the final set then
01:42:42
I'm like okay this is serious but it was too late were you tired by the time very
01:42:48
tired by the time I was sleeping you were sleeping before yeah I don't know why I I don't know if it was just a
01:42:54
fatig or whatever I was in the Locking room getting uh warm up and and felling
01:43:00
asleep and feeling asleep so that's why like uh personally
01:43:07
yeah I take that loss but I don't put it in the context you know I think it could
01:43:12
have be different do you think you could have beat him I still I still think I could have
01:43:17
beat him I could have lost two but no that easy yeah things were so easy um
01:43:25
like I wasn't I don't know yeah did you feel like yourself no no at
01:43:34
all no at
01:43:40
all but I think it was my mistake I wouldn't I shouldn't have done good in
01:43:46
the fury fight I think that was what was expecting in the fury fight for me to lose
01:43:53
maybe in that um fashion you have um you
01:43:59
come out of the fight with Anthony Joshua and you go back to making plans for the future and then life shows how
01:44:06
cruel and unfair it's capable of being when you're 15-month-old baby boy Kobe
01:44:11
passes away just a few months ago I'm really sorry thank you and um it
01:44:19
is the the most unimaginable the most inimaginable
01:44:25
thing yeah that's something that I never I
01:44:31
never imagine and all of the sudden nothing really
01:44:36
matters all of the sudden you realize that you were complaining about a
01:44:42
lot instead of being feeling blessed being grateful you were complaining
01:44:47
about things that didn't work but in fact everything was working well
01:44:53
how are you how am I yeah alive I mean
01:44:58
surviving but uh not the same I don't think he he will ever be the
01:45:06
same and I can't explain how in just 15
01:45:12
months I mean I still ask myself how in just 15
01:45:18
months a kids or a person can take this much space and be
01:45:26
basically became you to the point that when he's gone you you feel like you're
01:45:34
missing too just 15 months I mean two years ago
01:45:40
he wasn't there and now was living good he came and he left and I feel
01:45:47
like I don't know is is a weird type of thing
01:45:54
basically like uh after what I was saying earlier like my whole life was
01:46:00
about to do to fight in order for my
01:46:05
family not to go through those situation not to feel powerless uh or useless in the situation
01:46:13
and for the very only person that I should fight for I couldn't I didn't
01:46:19
even have a chance so sometime only that idea is
01:46:27
painful you didn't have a chance yeah he wasn't sick we didn't have to take him
01:46:32
to the hospital didn't have anything like that you know I wish
01:46:40
I could have like you know take him to the hospital find for a good doctor like
01:46:45
make calls and do stuff you know feel like I'm useful I'm playing I'm useful
01:46:52
just as I I always want to be so that was
01:47:03
it is it possible to is it possible to have you been able to
01:47:10
grieve and process it how do they grieve how do the
01:47:17
processes I never learn I never know how he works you just feel it
01:47:24
some days you do with it somay you do without it how how do they deal with that kind
01:47:32
of situation there's not a um how do they
01:47:39
say there's not a uh process that they set up
01:47:45
to to learn how to go through people will do people will do do
01:47:53
it in different
01:47:58
ways and how long it takes to grief when did is stop
01:48:09
whenever you know one of the big conversations in um I think that's become quite popular is the idea of
01:48:15
mental health and our and protecting our mental health and being aware of our Mental Health
01:48:23
when something like that happens to you it's the the most I mean I've never I don't have a children yet so I don't
01:48:28
I've not been through something like that but I can just imagine the the way that I try and imagine it is I have these wonderful nieces and nephews in my
01:48:34
life my brother is a year older than me has three children and they're like my children in a way and just the thought
01:48:40
of something happening to them is the most it's the most unimag unimaginable crushing feeling to me
01:48:46
um and men in particular aren't very good at dealing with things compared to
01:48:51
my partner for example example she's very expressive very emotional you she expresses how she feels what do you like
01:48:58
at expressing how you feel you don't learn how to express I
01:49:04
think I found myself uh very emotional at some point more than what I
01:49:12
thought you don't it's not something that you commend it you don't control
01:49:17
just happen and then you you discover yourself and you still in that process
01:49:24
yeah you discover your own self you think you've been through a lot you
01:49:29
think you're strong you was you thought you were strong you realize you were
01:49:36
I how was your family your your family your mother everybody else surprising I think um a lot of
01:49:45
people are doing pretty good better which is for me surprise I
01:49:53
always walk around like the toughest guy until now until now
01:50:00
yeah and I get [Music] to you know just being tired just
01:50:06
getting tired being tough think it's exhausting being tough mean you have to
01:50:14
be through over and over to a lot of
01:50:19
which just not easy to deal
01:50:25
with because people see you as a you know they see you as a tough guy that's your they called you the Predator they
01:50:32
you know I don't know I've been questioning myself about
01:50:38
that
01:50:49
lately yeah that's why I like you see
01:50:56
people trying [Music] to know
01:51:01
somebody pretend to know somebody mean wise they don't even know
01:51:10
thems like you can know somebody who who doesn't even know your own self you
01:51:16
don't know who you are you don't know what you can do what can affect you how
01:51:22
you can deal with things that never happened to you so you can expect to know that about
01:51:29
somebody what have you been questioning in
01:51:36
yourself if I can deal with stuff if I can handle
01:51:44
stuff been doubting about my
01:51:51
capability of stuff sometimes what what what are you talking about in terms of
01:51:57
dealing with stuff handling stuff emotional
01:52:03
things yeah like
01:52:10
um yeah even [Music] emotionally you know there's lot of
01:52:17
there some days that you wake up and you don't you think about every about stuff
01:52:22
about everything and you should really like what's the purpose what's the goal if
01:52:28
it's going to end up like this was the purpose of fighting
01:52:35
if I end up not being able to fight for the only person that I can fight
01:52:43
for let's talk about something else yeah I'm sorry
01:53:02
what else you get move on to
01:53:13
something I am you're in Vegas at the moment yes but I'm going home soon going
01:53:19
back to Cameroon mhm next week next week mhm what's the
01:53:25
plan uh going to be there for a couple weeks I'm training now
01:53:30
um I want to really make a purpose make a have a purpose you know make a sense
01:53:36
of all of this and I think uh I'm going back to fight so I've been training a
01:53:42
little bit because like I get to the point that I feel like
01:53:48
I really need to push myself to get out there started think about something
01:53:53
fine fine purpose and that's what I'm doing now training and I think I sure
01:54:03
fight I need a fight so uh I might fight before the end of
01:54:09
the year you know I think some MMA fight will be good to get back in the loop a
01:54:15
little bit before going back to boxing again you're fighting in a new new
01:54:22
League under a new promotion um yeah which is very exciting I saw the announcement yeah I supposed to be
01:54:28
fighting um no I'm not fighting in the pfl Africa I'm fighting in pfl global uh
01:54:35
but yes we we we along uh we launched the PF Africa and they announced it the
01:54:42
other day in Nigeria in Lagos Nigeria with the the uh one of our new partners
01:54:50
ilos so been good and you're it's about purpose now it's about finding new
01:54:56
purpose you said yeah finding a reason fighting for a
01:55:02
reason you know something to fight for I think is whether you you make it a
01:55:10
purpose to keep going or a reason to keep going or a reason to
01:55:15
stop but other ways either way you can serve as a as a reason
01:55:23
and your reason your purpose you're going to get out there and find it yeah I think my son was full of life
01:55:32
I think if there's one thing that he wasn't uh he wasn't inactive he was very
01:55:39
active was very curious about stuff he was and I think
01:55:47
uh the best way to honor him would definitely not be to quit or to live
01:55:53
thing like that because of him I think if there is a way that he would like to things to be done was to serve as
01:56:03
a motivation or to be a reason for things
01:56:08
to happen that's what you've always been Francis that's what you've always been
01:56:14
you've always been an inspiration he's now an inspiration I think he's now your inspiration yeah I
01:56:22
had so much in this kid like he was just 15 years 15 months old but you know I
01:56:29
have so many plants was doing this was preparing that was having a b building a
01:56:35
basketball court was getting ready for his um uh like looking for a socker uh
01:56:45
of his side so we can go play soccer when he started because he just started to work when he solid we go play
01:56:53
everything he become he became a a go he wasn't like just a kid he was
01:57:01
a go like was exciting waiting you know his day and his time but
01:57:19
yeah so fighting next the goal is to fight before the end of
01:57:24
the year so I'm training I'm keeping in shape but I have to go back in Africa a
01:57:32
little bit is it easy to train at the moment or is it day by day it's day by
01:57:39
day I think as I said like there someday like I don't just really want to do
01:57:45
anything I don't really care and those are the day that you I mean that's how
01:57:50
that's what your your heart tell you like your heart don't really care about anything then your brain will tell you
01:57:59
be reasonable and tell you that to go that's when you really have to at that
01:58:05
moment that you feel like you don't want to do anything is exactly the moment that you have to do something to get off
01:58:12
of there because like um those
01:58:18
emotion they are pretty good at shoting things around you sometime you get in
01:58:24
the just get I don't know in the bath and then just get stuck in there
01:58:31
and then memories and stuff just get you stuck in there and you it's so sad inside that you don't
01:58:39
even know that you can push the door and get out so you have to do something you have to keep and then when you push the
01:58:45
door get out maybe work in the room or something then it change your mind and you're like oh this pick something down
01:58:53
and then you help change your mind but if you stay in that bath uh bathroom
01:58:59
those same M memory will run over and over and over have you spoken to a
01:59:04
therapist at all or anyone that can help do they take
01:59:10
help what do what take a penny away or bring him
01:59:17
back I think it's a process that you have to go through uh it's a pain that
01:59:22
you just have to learn with it's like having a handicap uh you just have to learn to
01:59:28
deal with there are people today that live pretty good without hand or food or
01:59:34
food uh wish at first or they get imputated and they have to rehab to deal
01:59:44
with you've um you've been an inspiration your whole life your whole life to so many people um you now say
01:59:50
that um Kobe is your inspir ation and he's he's the reason why motivation and
01:59:55
your motivation yeah and he's the reason why you are striving he's the mountain he's
02:00:02
pushing you up a new Mountain in your career in this chapter of your career and I'm really really looking forward to seeing
02:00:09
this season of your career play out yeah I hope I'll be able to do it
02:00:16
but I just have to get out there and find out Francis we have a closing tradition
02:00:23
on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest so the last guest has left a question for
02:00:28
you and they don't know who they're leaving the question for okay the question is here when did you last
02:00:36
realize that you had it all
02:00:41
wrong when my boy pass away that was a moment that I realized
02:00:49
that everything I mean everything that's been my
02:00:55
reason for fighting uh fall
02:01:01
apart that was a moment that I feel that I really feel
02:01:08
like I feel like a failure you felt like a failure
02:01:15
yeah I feel power I I just feel like I could have done
02:01:21
something just
02:01:34
that Francis um I have to say a huge thank
02:01:39
you I have to say a big thank you and I'm not just saying thank you for me but um ever since I heard your story that
02:01:47
that time in Paris when we're in that hotel you you put my life in perspective Ive you gave me gratitude that I
02:01:56
probably didn't have to the same extent before because you've been through an incredible journey and throughout that
02:02:02
whole journey you've got this perspective for life where
02:02:09
you understand more than I ever did what's important things like family things like
02:02:15
principles you've understood that more than I did and you also having gone through that entire journey I didn't
02:02:22
hear you feeling pitiful complaining about the struggles you'd been through and I reflect on the life that I've
02:02:28
lived and the things that I'd dwelled on and I thought oh my God this guy has walked out of a really really dire
02:02:36
situation and built this the most incredible life he's climbed to the top of the mountain and it's funny because when you climb to those the top of those
02:02:42
mountains you get there alone what you don't ever get to see is that you've actually brought millions of people there too because you've inspired them
02:02:49
and you've shown them proven that they have no reason why they can't to if Francis could if Francis could go from
02:02:56
Cameroon on that Journey Through the Sahara Desert he tried to climb the fence couldn't get over the fence then
02:03:02
went through the Sea on the boat from Spain to Paris from Paris to the USA to
02:03:09
the top of the mountain to beating Tyson Fury there is absolutely nothing that I
02:03:16
can't do yeah I um I think so I think there's
02:03:22
a lot we we set ourself for we set a lot of limit of ourself uh by just like oh
02:03:29
it's not possible um which again we don't know what's possible or not um
02:03:36
but staying there thinking of what's possible or not does help actions help
02:03:44
and sometime you try you fail it's okay you stand you stand back up pick your
02:03:50
reset start again and then until you make it and then once you you you
02:03:57
really make it and I'm like oh he good he's a genius like how did he know that
02:04:02
this will work he didn't know anything just keep trying just refused to give up it's just like that and it's a some it's
02:04:09
something that um you know because at some point like I feel like um I need to
02:04:15
succeed in order to prove everybody that was doubting at me uh to prove them
02:04:21
wrong because even like coming from where I came from having the idea of boxing bro he was the worst thing that
02:04:28
it worst dream that you could have have like everybody nobody believe in me in in it
02:04:36
in the dream not in me but just in the dream like it's not possible we can't came come from where we come we are uh
02:04:44
to get there it's not possible it's not mean for us find something that is around us and get S you know like really
02:04:52
thought I was losing it basically like when I let um my little job in the
02:04:57
village like say go to the city I was 22 years old and I I saw my motorcycle like
02:05:03
okay go to the store and buy gloves and stuff that I'm doing boxing D like okay
02:05:09
this how this guy has got to the uh top level of craziness what the what the
02:05:16
hell is this you know and uh everybody doubt it
02:05:23
I mean even my mom say like you're my son I always stand by your side even
02:05:29
when you're losing it like now like okay at least I know that you
02:05:36
know but on one day he happened I made it and I'm like wow he's a genius how do
02:05:44
you know that is going to work I didn't know just keep doing it you know so
02:05:50
whatever you have we can keep trying it might work might not but at least you
02:05:56
will be in peace with yourself knowing that you have given it all I think it's the most important people are so afraid
02:06:03
to fail that they don't even try and I think that's really that's the failure
02:06:10
from not taking action the failure is not actually uh the fact that you you are
02:06:17
not Su you don't succeed in whatever you do failure is not taking action it's not
02:06:23
even trying that's why you really fair Francis thank you thank you thank
02:06:30
you so much hly it's the the most amazing honor and you're such an incredible person on an on and off camera you're such a wonderful human
02:06:37
being but you're just the most tremendous inspiration I've interviewed three 400 people but I've never ever
02:06:42
encountered a story as you you do that a lot yeah interviewing people as heroic
02:06:48
as yours so I rather I than interviewing people thank you
02:06:54
[Music]
02:07:13
[Music]