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[Music] it was early evening of August 31st 2012 when yansy null left work and headed
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home he started driving his battered old Subaru up interstate five at some point he encountered a man
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in a BMW he had no way of knowing that he was going to be dead in 10 [Music] minutes Yancy no was just a guy who
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lived in North Seattle had a girlfriend and a dog like to climb mountains he was
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one of us when you prosecute murder cases for as long long as we have the random nature of death is what gets in
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your head he was my best friend for 22 years he was my touchone he was the guy who kept me
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grounded people adored him the last few moments of yansy n's life were pulling up at a
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stoplight the BMW pulled up next to Yan's Subaru yansy turned and saw this car and this
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man next to him he saw the gun pointed at his head and he saw the bullet that shattered the
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window and tore apart his face and then he turned and was shot three more times in the
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head the witnesses really didn't know what had happened they heard the shots and then they saw the BMW pull
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into oncoming traffic screeched out leaving tire marks going so fast that when the car hit a hill it took air and
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then sped out of sight when I arrived that day at the murder scene it was dusk they had yellow
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crime scene tape around yansy NES Subaru there was blood outside the driver's door the driver's seat was
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saturated with blood when police respond to a murder they're looking for a reason was anybody
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mad at yansy did yansy have any enemies there might have been some kind of Road incident some kind of traffic incident
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now what are people thinking that there's a killer on the loose there was a killer on the loose
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anybody could have been the next Target police didn't know they were looking for a student of
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murder someone who would kill just a [Applause] [Music] kill I'm Peter vanand tonight on 48
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hours student of [Music] [Music] murder this case is about the presence of evil in our world
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it was like a bomb had dropped none of us is ever safe any of us could have been yansy
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null prosecutors Adrien McCoy and Kristen Richardson say the murder of yansy null in 2012 shot to death in his
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car while stopped at a red light put the city of Seattle on edge the police went
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all out they took it very seriously police are still looking for the suspect Yancy null was shot and
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killed one week ago tonight right now the shooter is on the loose how big a story was this this was a very big story
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Allison Grandy is a reporter for Cairo 7 a CBS News affiliate we have shootings in Seattle we don't necessarily have
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many shootings in that area of Seattle that time of day and that type of victim what were you hearing did yansy n have
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any enemies from talking to his friends yansy didn't have any enemies he was an outdoorsy guy who enjoyed fine
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wine loved what he did working as a wine Steward at QFC hey what's your name Yan
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bottom line 42-year-old yansy null right was a good-hearted happy go-lucky guy oh
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yeah oh yeah and friends say the idea that yansy exploded into a road rage battle is ridiculous he drove like a
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grandma he was very very careful longtime friend Brad Kenny he had a Subaru wagon not
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known for its speed was he an angry man no was he impulsive No Reckless never verbally abusive God no not even close
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he was so careful and mindful with how he interacted with people investigators suspect yansy and his killer crossed
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paths around 700 p.m. on Interstate 5 just north of Seattle it's possible that there was some sort
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of Confrontation and yansy pulled up to the intersection thinking nothing of it do you think he ever knew what hit
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him never he was killed instantly thank God he had no idea what happened the details of this shooting
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were curious to say the least right here five shots were fired with remarkable accuracy it was at about this time of
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day and the shooter killed yansy null just a few feet from other motorists I hear five rapid shots like kind of like
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a pop po pop pop pop friends Kevin watts and Angelo Rama were driving together when they heard those five pops behind
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them the next thing they saw was a car Speedway into oncoming traffic I drove by and I was like that's kind of weird
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that someone wouldn't wait for a red light upset that the driver had run the red light the two friends hit the gas
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and gave Chase we couldn't catch up to him how fast did that vehicle peel out of here 0
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to 60 in like 2 3 seconds he was gone Rama and Watts gave up the Chase and returned to the scene where a Subaru
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was still at the curb with its motor running the friends had a sinking feel that those pops they'd heard likely were
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gunshots I saw a lot of blood I saw where the bullet holes were and I realized that there was just there's
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absolutely nothing I could do the shooter's bullets had hit yansy four times in the head the case was about to
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consume detectives Frank Clark and Dana Duffy for the next two years YY had no criminal history no history of being a
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hotthead we really didn't have a lot to go on after closely inspecting the crime scene
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the detectives realized Yan's window was down and the shooter had fired those five shots right through his own
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passenger side window that's so strange to me the shooter would shoot through the passenger side window of his car at
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someone else have you ever heard of such a thing no it it was strange to us as well that was a huge piece of evidence
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the police now knew the shooter's car had a broken passenger side window and there was more even though witness
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Angelo Rama had only glimpsed the fleeing car for a split second something registered my first guess was an M4 it's
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a BMW car the one that I saw was a convertible it was silver was the top up or down it was down and when he was
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driving by I noticed it had really really nice silver rims armed with his detailed description the police advised
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the public to be on the lookout for that BMW model with that broken passenger side
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window as for the driver I looked at the person who was driving the car cuz I'm really good with faces Kevin Watts
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helped a police artist come up with this remarkably detailed sketch of the shooter within a week the sketch was
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released to the public along with grainy still photos of the car from a nearby security camera we knew that police in
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Seattle were looking for a silver BMW and they were pulling them over all over the city yes
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[Music] yes police were desperate to stop the killer from striking again not knowing
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if or when he would 2 weeks went by and then a suspect surfac who surprised everyone when you see something like
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this from somebody who has it all together he's not crazy he's just evil police are still looking for he was
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driving a silver in his 20s or 30s did Witnesses say f for anyone with information in the two weeks that
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followed yansy n's brutal execution cops received hundreds of tips about that darkhaired suspect in a silver sports
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car it seemed at that time like everybody in the city of Seattle was driving a BMW Z4 or a Z3 then on
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September 14th a woman calls in an anonymous tip for the first time this mysterious man
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has a name and she provides a name of den Bowman and his address which is less than 10 blocks
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from the shooting site when we pulled up a photo of him matched the description of our sketch
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did his hairstyle match yes and the age description matched and yet the 29-year-old D Bowman appears to be the
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most unlikely of potential suspects he's a dazzling engineer with an inventive imagination the golf ball hits the lever
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of this press which drives the drill which spins the wire Goldberg contration he
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created the it swings over and hits this water bottle the bottom of the water bottle is a magnetic plunger the people
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that we've spoken to have described him as brilliant a genius others have titled
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him as a genius which then triggers this flamethrower B Bowman was only a 12-year-old when he entered College in
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his 20s Bowman opened his own business a boutique engineering company called vague industries that specialized in
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robotics and then in 2007 Bowman met Jennifer Palm a successful dentist at an education seminar they were married a
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year later I thought they were what I considered to be a power couple very very sophisticated Justin Mata was a
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friend of The Bowman what were they like as a couple loving the both of them I think understood one
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another but it was up to detectives Duffy and Clark to figure out D Bowman and they quickly learned that he had
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owned a BMW we wanted to know does he still have that BMW is it still at his house and immediately we came up with
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the plan that we're going to set up a surveillance on his residence a stake out a stake
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out a tense week went by with no sign of the BMW coming or going but then the garage door opens up just enough for the
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detectives to spot a silver sports car based on that information we're able to obtain a search warrant Before Dawn on
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September 21st 2012 as D and Jennifer were leaving for work police swooped in to arrest D Bowman Den was placed in
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handcuffs and transported down to our office let you know this is a police facility and everything's being recorded
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okay just to let you know that Bowman has to wait 2 hours for detectives to arrive to question him
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while he's killing time Bowman doesn't appear to be concerned he enjoys some snacks and a cup of coffee exasperated
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Bowman complains his precious time is being wasted will you KN yes sir yes uh so I'm
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kind of getting a little annoyed at how long this is taking do I need to like um
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I'm sorry this it it has to take as long as it takes okay he was pretty confused
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about the whole thing it was kind of weird Bowman also didn't realize that in another room his wife Jennifer had
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agreed to answer questions from detectives Clark and Duffy have you heard of any murders like within a few
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blocks of your house in the last few weeks I'm not sure you're not sure it's a yes or no question I'm not sure we
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call it the I'm not sure interview I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure because her responses were
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overwhelmingly I'm not sure so your honesty right now is Paramount I understand and I'm
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not sure what I can tell you Jennifer didn't know that the detectives had already inspected Den's BMW and had
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discovered from these markings that the passenger side window had been replaced remember investigators were certain the
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killer had fired through that glass the first thing we did was open the passenger door and you could see glass
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shards in The Well of the door jam also Within in the garage there was this fresh smell of
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paint That's because the BMW's silver rims had been painted black what about the paint smell that we
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smelling in there I'm not sure do you know anything that goes on in your house for nearly 4 hours he bled
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all over the freaking streets of Seattle okay investigators hammered Jennifer for
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answers and I'm tired of you sitting there playing Dum while the interview was going
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on investigators entered the Bowman's house which was surprisingly bare we knew that Jennifer was the primary bread
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winner in that household and we knew from serving some of our search warrants that she made probably $250,000 a year
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but when we got into the home she had hardly any bedroom furniture her mattress laid on the floor as they went
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room to room investigators discovered a small arsenal of weapons and ammunition everything except the suspected murder
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weapon a 9mm Glock when detectives finally got to Bowman they hoped he would answer a few
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questions but Bowman was smart enough to shut down the interview if you want to talk to a lawyer or you want to talk to
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us first well I guess I'd like to talk to a lawyer Bowman might have been done with the detectives but they were far
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from finished with him you're going to be charged with a crime of what murder of what of who murder of a human
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being okay it was something to see at least 45 friends of murder victim yansy null
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packed AR reignment court this morning to get a look at this man you watch this man walk in and you see this unassuming
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person and you go why why would why would you do this D Bowman has been in custody for 4 months
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for the murder of yansy null and at this hearing Bowman learns his bail is set at
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a stunning $10 million a sum he cannot make he hasn't shown any sign of guilt or even fear Brad Kenny is desperate for
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answers it just fills you with so much anger well Bowman appears stoic in court prosecutors say the alleged killer has a
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quirky side that emerges in hundreds of recorded Jailhouse phone calls with his wife Jennifer they had pet names Den was
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Bunny and Mrs Bowman Jennifer was snuggles Bunny and snuggles Bunny and snuggles when they talk to each other
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they talk and baby talk bunny bunny how are you I'm doing good how's my little snuggle cake I just wrote you in the
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email yay it was very strange very strange I miss so many things right now I know I don't have a
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snuggles you don't have a snuggle plum next to you everyone warned us don't listen to the jail calls don't listen to
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the jail calls you'll want to throw up I'm just going to say love love Meanwhile Back among the grown-ups
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detectives Frank Clark and Dana Duffy were methodically building their homicide case against Bowman they
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discovered that for years the techsavvy genius had been downloading these books artic
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and videos to his computer on the subject of death and murder it's not that he just had a little bit of it he
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had tons of [Music] it and then there was Bowman's obsession with this man [Music]
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Bond James [Music] [Applause] Bond and it showed in Bowman's computer videos that's D Bowman driving a car at
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high speed s around an obstacle course and here he is blasting away in shooting demonstrations where he proved
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he was an expert Marksman with either hand I don't believe that Den Bowman got up that morning thinking today's the day
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that I'm going to shoot somebody this situation presented itself somehow but once it did then all his self-training
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and research kicked in we're going to talk about shooting through glass and one of Bowman's videos made by a
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Firearms expert really shocked police I've come into a situation where I feel threatened by somebody off to my
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passenger side it was a play byplay of Yan's murder of course I recognize I come down I grip I cross parallel extend
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touch press if you want to know how to shoot somebody in traffic from your very fancy
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sports car it was an awfully helpful video he didn't even have to roll down his window prosecutors came to believe
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Bowman wanted to kill someone just for the thrill of it why would he commit this murder in broad daylight where
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there are witnesses around who could see his car perhaps see him what's the fun of it if there's no challenge if there's
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no Witnesses if there's no need need to get away to speed off and fly through neighborhood streets and hide your car
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in your garage that was the fun for him soon after the murder police say that Bowman went to his computer where
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he had his vast library of murder related books including arrest proof yourself how to cover up a murder how to
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get rid of a gun how to get rid of gunshot residue and police say Bowman now had an accomplice Jennifer Bowman
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AKA snuggles do you understand how serious this is right now Jennifer Jennifer to me seemed very very nervous
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tell us the truth poor eye contact I could see that she was shaky tell me the truth right
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now I have told you the truth Jennifer never asked for a lawyer and handed over her purse where police found receipts
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that aided the investigation do either of you have the belief that Jennifer had prior knowledge of this attack I don't
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think she had prior knowledge but I believe that at some point D told her what happened she had to know something
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because the next day she went to Portland with him why'd you go to Portland it was just
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a a little date trip a little road trip a trip that led to this AutoGlass Shop where police say Bowman began to cover
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up his crime his wife wife by his side she was very standoffish she didn't say much repairman Jeff Shields he just
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seemed like he needed a window right away Bowman told Shields the BMW window had been Shattered by a thief while he
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and Jennifer were eating in Portland what time of day was the window broken um we found it um in the afternoon at
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approximately what time it was right after we ate lunch but detectives say a restaurant receipt from Jennifer's purse
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told a different story they were never there for lunch they went there at dinner
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[Music] time 3 weeks later the Bowman's visited a tire store in Northern Seattle manager
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Doug hasket says Bowman used the name Peter while his wife avoided eye contact she was a blonde and she just kind of
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looked at the ground she really wouldn't talk to anybody Bowman bought four cheaper tires to replace the expensive
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BMW tires why would he get new tires because during our investigation the media released that there were tire
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tread tracks left at the scene why did he get new tires I'm not sure I were the on were
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the other ones wore out I'm not sure what if we put you on a polygraph test today you'd fail it like a sack of
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potatoes I mean I can tell your lion just looking at you police say they later found the set
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of expensive practically new BMW tires inside Bowman's workshop at vague Industries the murder weapon was never
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recovered but prosecutors felt they had enough evidence to try D Bowman for first-degree murder please rise and he
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would soon take the stand and tell a story he had long kept secret if I didn't do something right then I was
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going to die [Music] Frank what do we have here Peter we're in the evidence Warehouse of the Seattle Police
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Department two vehicles side by side once again just as they were on that summer evening in August 2012 this is
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Den Bowman's BMW roadsters Z four and yansy n's super rof what brought them together is
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unclear the result of their encounter is not what goes through your mind when you
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look inside this car sadness Devastation for yansy this family lost a a loving member murder is is very ugly it's never
00:25:56
pretty and now on November 19th 2014 2 years after yansy null was savagely gunned down his alleged killer
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enters the courtroom to face the charge of first-degree murder please rise court is now in
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session by the time of trial he looked like he was 13 didn't bman is transformed gone is The Confident cocky
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young man who first met with detectives do you want to talk to a lawyer or you want to talk to us first well I guess
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I'd like to talk to a lawyer and in his place is what appears to be a cleancut college student this guy doesn't look
00:26:40
like a killer and that's not at all uncommon for defendants to change their appearance in order to appeal to the
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jury Bowman's mother a native of Vietnam and his father a Boeing engineer are in
00:26:54
court every day to support their only child but his cing wife Jennifer his snuggles is nowhere to be
00:27:03
seen we are ready to begin opening statements prosecutor Adrien McCoy tells jurors that the motive for murder wasn't
00:27:12
greed or jealousy this was a fulfillment of a quest but something far more maob a
00:27:21
quest to know what it would be like to kill someone McCoy attempts to take the jury inside
00:27:34
Bowman's Mind by showing these training videos recovered from his computer we're going to talk about
00:27:43
shooting through glass from video to thousands of pages of research on killing another person
00:27:52
prosecutors paint a portrait of a premeditated murder it was the equivalent of the library of of Congress
00:27:58
on death you ever seen anything like this before in your career not even close why was all that stuff on his
00:28:04
computer he hoarded information he had a lot of things on his computer that are totally bizarre having possession of it
00:28:13
doesn't mean anything Mr Bowman was actually trying to create a library of basically everything Bowman's lawyer
00:28:19
prominent defense attorney John Henry Brown whose former clients include serial killer Ted Bundy says there's no
00:28:27
evidence that Bowman ever read or watched any of these materials there were thousands if not hundreds of
00:28:34
thousands of pages about engineering techniques but also there was all this bizarre stuff that the prosecutors used
00:28:42
in order to make up their motive as the defense presents its case Brown takes a big gamble you swear our
00:28:53
fir ofal he puts D Bowman on the stand I felt like it was just this crazy bad dream and like I was just run like I
00:29:06
was running from a monster and brown knows he's risking it all on Bowman's ability to sway jurors and convince them
00:29:14
that he was the victim of road rage if I didn't do something right then I was going to die Bowman explains that it all
00:29:23
began when he accidentally cut off yansy null on the inter state there was sort of
00:29:29
a a stream of swearing I think the the the phrase that caught my attention was um you better learn how to drive that
00:29:40
fancy car boy or you're going to get yourself up Bowman says yansy closely followed
00:29:50
him off the interstate to this traffic light where they both stopped and it was that point when I got r
00:29:59
yeah that Wham Bowman says was a wine bottle thrown by yansy that hit him in the head he's an absolute liar that's
00:30:07
sacrilegious to yans he would never throw and waste wine on somebody like that I remember seeing his eyes really
00:30:16
like bulging and like as he was kind of as he was yelling I would describe it as just
00:30:23
like violent hatred that you would I had only seen in the movies did you think it was possibly G yeah yeah I was
00:30:35
scared fearing for his life Bowman says he pulled out his 9mm Glock pointed it at yansy and
00:30:44
fired you intentionally shot him yes was it your intent to kill him no road rage
00:30:52
is by definition not premeditation and Bowman says he shot yans in self-defense I remember opening my
00:31:01
eyes seeing that I had the gun in my hand and I just dropped the gun and stepped on the gas though Bowman claims
00:31:11
he was the victim he didn't call the police panicked Bowman says he collected evidence from his car including the wine
00:31:19
bottle and the gun and threw it all away throwing away of the evidence that would
00:31:24
support his own story this is a guy who's genius level IQ right well but yeah but a lot of geniuses I know don't
00:31:33
have a lot of common sense you threw away the evidence that you could show the police to prove you were not a
00:31:38
criminal right I didn't think they would even believe me but prosecutor Christen
00:31:45
Richardson isn't buying a word of Bowman's story do you don't think that most husbands would go home to their
00:31:52
wives and say oh my God I almost got killed I figured the more that he talked the worse it was going to get for him
00:32:00
you're an expert shoo what was your target I there was no aming involved in this okay well you did a pretty good job
00:32:09
didn't you cuz you hit him four times in the head including the temple right um that surprised me for 3 Days
00:32:18
Richardson hammers away at Bowman you lied to your parents you lied to your wife right is that a question but he
00:32:24
never loses his composure Mr Bowman you have no trouble answering yes or no to Mr Brown is there something wrong with
00:32:31
the way I ask questions of you no that seemed like a strange question okay well that's the first no I think
00:32:42
I've gotten from you so I guess the point's been made I have nothing else thank you you may step down as D Bowman
00:32:49
steps down the question is did he convince the jury that he killed yansy null to save his life I think Jim deeply
00:32:58
believed the jury would see that self-defense is justifiable homicide or simply for the thrill is he guilty of
00:33:08
murdering the first degree [Music] yes [Music] I will never forget [Music] yansy every time he hikes this Trail
00:33:40
Brad Kenny thinks of his friend yansy N I really miss him it's never going to be
00:33:46
over and I'll always miss him I mean it's good to be here but it's um it's really
00:33:55
difficult please rise after 3 weeks and 31 Witnesses D Bowman's murder trial is coming to a close he hasn't shown one
00:34:06
iota of remorse he's just completely stoic I think we're ready for the jerks on December 9th 2014 more than 2 years
00:34:18
after yansy n's murder and coincidentally Den Bowman's 32nd birthday jurors begin deliberations it's
00:34:26
the worst part of the job waiting for a verdict but it's just the nature of it you always doubt yourself one person not
00:34:34
doubting himself is Den Bowman as he confides to his wife Jennifer in recorded Jailhouse phone calls we should
00:34:42
chastise the jurs if they take longer than tomorrow Jennifer has not appeared a single day of Bowman's trial but she
00:34:51
stays in constant contact and has no doubt whatsoever of his innocence this is obvious they need to
00:35:00
acquit like how could they consider anything else you have to be completely irrational to believe anything else be
00:35:07
seated please on day three the jury returns I understand the jury has reached the
00:35:16
verdict I will read the verdict form we the jury find the defendant Thomas Ben Bowman
00:35:28
guilty of the crime of Murder in the First Degree as charged guilty the jury didn't buy Den Bowman's he killed n but
00:35:36
says ite murder required premeditation it's a total surprise to Bowman but sweet relief to Yan's girlfriend and his
00:35:44
supporters the verdict is read what was that moment like for Den well he was so emotionally upset he said I can't
00:35:51
believe it I can't believe it I can't believe it 3 weeks later a very different looking D Bowman is back in court for
00:36:00
sentencing Mr Bowman made some bad decisions the once cocky boy Genius is gone as the reality of the guilty
00:36:09
verdict sinks in and his parents step forward to beg the judge for Mercy I know this is my
00:36:22
fault defense attorney Brown must finish reading her statement our son's acts are
00:36:29
our faults my husband and I we provide and allowed him to learn a gun for self- protection Brown a seasoned trial lawyer
00:36:41
can't help but show emotion as Den's mother asks the judge to send her to prison in place of her only child ask
00:36:51
you to allow myself to substitute any punishment by placing myself in Den's role it was heartbreaking to watch his
00:37:01
mother at sentencing for her to offer herself in his place to do his punishment for him that's real moments
00:37:11
later it's Bowman's turn Dan are you able to speak but Yan's girlfriend and his supporters refus to
00:37:22
listen I'm disappointed that the jurs didn't believe me and the first words out of Den's mouth when he's asked to
00:37:31
make a statement at sentencing is not about his parents or his heartbroken mother or Yan's friends or family it's I
00:37:39
can't believe the jury didn't believe me that's his Focus I don't envy your task of having
00:37:49
to make the uh burden of deciding my fate it's and I'm sorry for placing you in that
00:37:59
situation and all I can ask is for your mercy and for your help as the judge is about to deliver
00:38:10
Bowman's sentence he has something he feels compelled to say I feel very sorry for your parents Mr Bowman and I want to
00:38:22
tell them that it is not their fault Mr Bowman is responsible for his own actions Bowman gets 29 years and 1 month
00:38:36
slightly less than the maximum the case against in Bowman is over but the police
00:38:42
feel there's unfinished business was Jennifer misleading or dishonest or lying at any point during this
00:38:51
questioning yes she was I would very much like her to be charged with a crime the crime of helping her her husband
00:38:57
cover up Yan's murder Frank would you like her to be charged with a crime yes I would Jennifer today has changed her
00:39:04
name and her job she opened the door but we tracked her down in Seattle hey Jennifer Peter vanent 48 hours why did
00:39:14
you lie to detectives why did you help your husband cover up a murder you can talk to
00:39:24
us no answers still ultimately the state attorney chose not to bring charges against Jennifer and
00:39:32
she in turn has cut off all ties with the man she once endearingly called her bunny today the house the couple lived
00:39:45
in sits empty the two cars at the heart of this case remain in a police warehouse but the memories of yansy null
00:39:55
remain as alive as ever ready ready ready [Music] get [Music] one of my friends mom had texted
00:41:03
me cuz she lived pretty close to Great Vine Lake and she was like look what happened a developing story right now a
00:41:11
body found in the banks of Grapevine Lake nothing happens in Grapevine nothing except for what he
00:41:20
did the victim was identified as Jacqueline Vandergriff hello everyone my name is jacn Vander but friends call me
00:41:28
Jackie Jackie Vander was 24 years of age I am currently a junior here at Texas Women's University and my major is
00:41:37
nutrition with an emphasis in wellness and just beyond this area where the shade is pretty much hitting is where we
00:41:45
had our crime scene there are a lot of things that will shock you and this is by far the
00:41:51
worst thing I have seen my manager texts me Charles's just been arrested I felt like the world was
00:42:01
spinning like everything was out of control it's beli that last Tuesday Jacqueline vandagriff met up with
00:42:09
Charles Bryant at a bar in Denton surveillance video also cell phone pings all put Vander Griff and
00:42:16
Bryant together I remember him just being kind of quiet I immediately said there's no
00:42:24
way they have the wrong guy there's no no way that he did this are you telling me there's no evidence that Charles
00:42:30
Bryant killed Jackie Vander not direct evidence this is kind of my calling dealing with these really strange cases
00:42:47
the serial killer it's the ritualistic killings hey how you doing today good Jim H with the angels life good today or
00:42:55
not this this is not a a normal homicide I even know how I kill someone it all seemed to started with
00:43:05
Caitlyn how screwed up are you from Pin Man in the early days it was good after that first month that's when I started
00:43:15
to see these warning signs that he was manipulative very controlling I just told him I can't do
00:43:23
this anymore this isn't working this is over he flipped out he showed up at your dorm
00:43:32
room out of the blue you never gave him the address no you know you trespass in his mind he was seeking Revenge the
00:43:40
warrant that we got is for stalking on his exgirlfriend who had called the police on him how he was stalking me was
00:43:46
completely related to Jackie Vander Griff's death there's some similarities the way that vandagriff
00:43:57
looks and the way that Brian's ex-girlfriend looked do you think there's a chance of
00:44:04
possibility that he walked into this bar and saw somebody reminded him of you and
00:44:11
took his rage out on her most definitely I I think that he really wanted to kill
00:44:17
me I think that he wanted me dead [Music] [Music] when I first arrived on the scene I saw
00:45:11
a lot of police cars saw fire trucks there was a lot of activity it was September 14th
00:45:20
2016 Just Before Dawn when John Luna a captain with the Grapevine Police Department
00:45:26
responded to a call about a gruesome Discovery here at Grapevine Lake just off of the warn foot path you
00:45:35
have an area that's pretty well overgrown with weeds but you could clearly see a small area that was burned
00:45:42
just beyond where I'm standing there was a body that was obviously charred it had
00:45:47
been set on fire the body found inside a blue kitty pool was so badly damaged that police could not determine the most
00:45:55
basic fact facts about the victim we didn't know if that was an adult or a child male or a
00:46:02
female the next day using fingerprints police were able to identify the victim it was Jackie Vander a 24-year-old
00:46:11
nutrition major at Texas Women's University in nearby Denton I chose this major because um I realized the
00:46:19
importance of nutrition and just overall health both named Jacqueline named after
00:46:24
Jacqueline Kennedy one of Jackie Vander Griff's closest friends Jackie Tan they met in high
00:46:31
school ever since then we were Jackie squared and I loved it she made me feel like I could be myself and just be goofy
00:46:40
and funny Jackie Tan remembers her friend as a good student who was focused and trusting that girl smartest girl I've
00:46:51
[Music] known she had her whole life ahead of her she had plans me and my detectives
00:47:00
we went out there for her memorial service and um sorry for Captain Luna the brutality of
00:47:11
this crime hit close to home could it just as easily been my daughter that this happened
00:47:20
to Jackie spent the last evening of her life IND dented with this man police didn't know his identity right away but
00:47:29
this woman knew him very well he would always give me flowers always especially if he had something to be sorry about
00:47:37
Charles Bryant lived some 20 miles away but he had been making frequent visits to Denton trying to rekindle a
00:47:44
relationship with his ex-girlfriend Caitlyn matthysse who had recently moved there to attend the University of North
00:47:53
Texas he was just trying to win me back back and I was just like nothing is going to work Caitlyn's involvement with
00:48:00
Bryant had begun 3 months earlier in June in the town of Grapevine when it came into the restaurant where Caitlyn
00:48:08
was working as a server the day that I met him was the day after I graduated high
00:48:13
school he had lots of muscles um and Tattoos which kind of interested me at the at the
00:48:21
time Bryant was then 29 working as a bartender and personal trainer you're 18 he's 29 he's got muscles and tattoos and
00:48:33
must have made your mother crazy yeah extremely crazy in a good way though yeah she cared about me being a mother
00:48:43
of adult children is a different role you have to let go for them to to fly away
00:48:53
and grow up with you Caitlyn is the youngest of Karen H's four children she says Caitlyn was hard to
00:49:02
miss Fireball you know when she's in the house she never walked anywhere she ran
00:49:11
everywhere and Caitlyn ran headlong into the relationship with Charles Bryant that summer of
00:49:17
2016 one of their regular date spots was at the park by Grapevine Lake where this
00:49:23
picture was taken when Karen learned about the relationship she asked Caitlyn to show her a picture of
00:49:32
him I Got This Feeling Just deep inside to my bones an evil feeling and I said he's going to hurt you he's going to do
00:49:44
something bad wow and she's like oh he's nice he's good to me he makes me feel like an adult were you thinking to
00:49:52
yourself you're 18 you're too young to know yes but I didn't want to insult her within weeks Caitlyn was having serious
00:50:03
doubts of her own about Brian that's when I started to see these warning signs that he was manipulative he was a
00:50:11
bit of a Nar narcissist he thought very highly of himself he would say things like oh
00:50:18
you'll never find anyone better than me it was toxic and he was toxic in mid August 2016 Caitlyn broke
00:50:27
up with Bryan she thought that was the last she'd see of him but the next day he showed up uninvited at her mother's
00:50:35
house and somehow he convinced me to get back with him he was trying to say oh I
00:50:41
can work on this and and I can be better and making all these promises but Caitlyn realized she wasn't
00:50:49
interested in promises that was one of the things that my mom taught me people do not change you you can't change
00:50:56
someone at that point I was just waiting for the perfect time to end things a little more than a week later after
00:51:04
Caitlyn moved away to school she told Brian it was over again later that night police found him
00:51:13
on campus just by sheer coincidence I had made a traffic stop and he was driving that vehicle Captain Jeremy pul
00:51:21
was then a lieutenant for the UN campus police he pulled Brian over early in the
00:51:27
morning of August 24th I thought he was an intoxicated driver by the way he was driving and that was my focus so right
00:51:33
now I'm have to place you on you know Arris so good you can just remain seated it's all good Bryant was not over the
00:51:40
legal limit he was charged with a few outstanding traffic tickets and they let him go later that same day he was back
00:51:49
on Caitlyn's campus again he actually knocked on the door of my dorm room he didn't know prior to where I lived and
00:51:58
he said oh your name was on the door did that creep you out it did at that point
00:52:03
I was scared Caitlyn got him out of there and called campus police captain pul recognized Bryant's name on the
00:52:10
report and went along to interview Caitlyn the next day she told us things like I I just did
00:52:18
not like the way Charles spoke to me I did not like the way he treated me and I made that choice then and there you know
00:52:24
I would do everything I could to help her with this situation pul issued a no trespass order
00:52:31
Banning Charles Bryant from the UN campus but once again Brian would not take no for an
00:52:40
answer the biggest fear I have as a police officer sometimes is emotion because emotion drives people to do
00:52:48
things you would never [Applause] imagine [Music] it was my first day there and he walked
00:53:11
through the door and my heart just dropped to the bottom of my stomach it was August 31st
00:53:19
2016 a week since Charles Bryant had tracked Caitlyn matys down at her new dorm now he was invading her space again
00:53:28
coming into her new restaurant on her first day of work M was like I just want you to leave what did he say to that he
00:53:36
didn't really say anything he looked upset my new co-workers they like yeah he was here yesterday looking for
00:53:44
you Caitlyn asked her manager to keep Bryant out but her manager said there was nothing he could
00:53:52
do I can't work here I don't feel safe enough to work here Caitlyn went back to her old job a half hour's drive away her
00:54:01
mother found it all hard to watch from a distance I said come home it was my motherly instinct to protect her and in
00:54:11
order to protect her I had to have her with me but Caitlyn thought she'd be safe in
00:54:17
her dorm a week later on September 6th what would have been their 3-month anniversary Bryant was back yet
00:54:26
again he showed up to to my dorm knocked on my door and at this point I was shaking I'm all
00:54:33
alone I uh actually hid in my sweet mate's closet you hid yes when I was on the phone with the police they were like
00:54:40
we can't hear you you need to speak up and I was just afraid that he was going to hear my voice I did hear him say
00:54:46
Caitlyn I know you're in there just open up I have something for you and I'm like
00:54:51
God what what do you what do you have for me I don't want it Bryant left flowers send a two-page
00:54:59
letter when police arrived he was gone I heard him say hey it's Charles I have something for you you know for sure it
00:55:07
was him yeah I know it was him s 27 myself and 443 in a police found him outside 10 minutes later you at school
00:55:15
here no what's your name now in running clothes and arrested him for trespassing but you know you're not
00:55:24
supposed to be up there right Brian posted Bond and was released within hours although Caitlyn had
00:55:30
already blocked him on her phone email and social media he created a new email address and wrote to her later that same
00:55:39
day here I am heartbroken and with a criminal record for bringing the girl I love
00:55:45
flowers that's when it became really serious for me if an actual physical arrest doesn't stop the behavior then
00:55:52
you're you know something is wrong Captain pul helped Caitlyn get an emergency protective order and because
00:56:00
Brian had kept trying to reach her after his arrest how you doing Charles you have your ID with you poke had his
00:56:06
officers go to Bryan's house the next day and charge him yet again this time for stalking this was his third arrest
00:56:15
in 14 days I told him if he continued to communicate with Caitlyn I would use every email I would use every text
00:56:23
message I would use every phone call as a reason to have him rearrested 2 Days Later Bryant posted a $5,000 Bond and
00:56:32
got out of jail he was telling his roommate that I was the the crazy one in this
00:56:39
relationship so all of his friends were kind of coming at me and they were like why you need to like drop these charges
00:56:47
against him by September 13th Bryant was back in Denton just a half mile from Caitlyn's dorm in an area she had told
00:56:55
them about back when they were still dating I was talking about going up to fry Street and like meeting new people
00:57:03
Bryant went to fry Street public house that night at about 700 p.m. an hour later Jackie Vandergriff walked in asked
00:57:11
about a job and ended up in a conversation with the bartender and Charles Bryant about 45 minutes later Jackie
00:57:20
posted a message on her Twitter I'm glad I decided to get off Tinder and walked to a
00:57:27
bar Jackie's friend Jackie Tan Jackie was a very social person whenever she went out she would
00:57:36
make friends with everybody and it wasn't even flirty it wasn't anything you know she was talking to the
00:57:43
bartender talking to other people at about 9:00 Jackie left with Bryant and the bartender she and Bryant
00:57:51
went to another bar nearby and started talking to a group group of women by 9:45 it was raining and
00:57:59
everyone was headed out Jackie left with Charles Bryant I feel like she felt comfortable
00:58:07
enough with him that night because she had been hanging out with him for so long that she was like hey well whatever
00:58:13
he's just going to drop me off it's not that far and I'll be good once in his car Bryant stopped at a
00:58:23
convenience store this was the last time Jackie Vander Griff was seen alive the day after she was found dead
00:58:32
there was a new post on her Twitter never knew I could feel like this it was just really bizarre police suspected it
00:58:41
was a message from her killer and they knew they had to move quickly to ID the man Jackie had been with they had some
00:58:48
luck when they tracked down the women Jackie met that night one of the friends that was with
00:58:55
her had gotten a business card from this person because he was a fitness instructor now that Grapevine Police had
00:59:04
Charles Bryant's name they learned about that restraining order so in my eyes that played into him as being a good
00:59:14
suspect Grapevine Police called Captain pul who was in the middle of a road race
00:59:21
the first thing he told me was Charles Bryant was their main suspect and Jackie's murder and I immediately just
00:59:27
sat down on a park bench in the middle of the race it floored me Bryant was emerging as a strong suspect but
00:59:35
Grapevine Police did not have physical evidence connecting him to Jackie's death so for now Bryant was free and
00:59:43
pulk was worried about what he might do next I called Caitlyn and I just asked where are you I was like does this have
00:59:50
to do with the murder that happened in Grapevine and he's like I I I can't tell I can't specify that to you
00:59:58
Caitlyn but are you safe right now and what did you say I said I think so she might have been wrong in the days
01:00:08
after Jackie's murder Charles Bryan sent Katlin several emails including this picture writing on it first kiss under
01:00:16
this tree Once Upon a Time that photo was taken at Grapevine Lake he might have taken that picture that same day
01:00:25
that Jackie was [Music] killed it was September 2016 and Caitlyn mathys Charles Bryant exgirlfriend was
01:00:48
very worried he might have been involved in the brutal murder at Grapevine Lake just days before I was waiting for more
01:00:55
news to come out cuz at that point they hadn't even um arrested him yet were you
01:01:01
worried he was going to come after you I was I thought that's exactly what he was
01:01:06
going to do the emails and picture Bryant had recently sent Caitlyn were proof that he
01:01:13
was still thinking about her in the days after Jackie was killed but they were also proof of something else it was
01:01:21
prohibited for Charles to communicate with her in any manner and then if he did he would have been violating that
01:01:26
order Captain poke thought they could use those violations to help the grape vine police we didn't have enough to
01:01:34
make an arrest yet so I told the detective we can get a warrant signed on some evidence we just got and at least
01:01:41
you know get him off the street you go by Charles you go by Dean Charles okay Charles Bryant was arrested
01:01:49
on September 18th for violating Caitlyn's restraining order graef find Detectives were hoping they'd soon find
01:01:55
more evidence connecting him to Jackie's death he's brought to the gravine police
01:02:01
department for an interview and right away he's beginning to distance himself from having any almost any interaction
01:02:09
with Jackie recognize who she iside a bar and at the same time we began serving a search warrant for his
01:02:21
residence what can you tell me about her that's about it I guess it had been 4 days since Jackie's
01:02:30
body was found plenty of time to dispose of any possible evidence but Captain Luna at Grapevine PD says they found a
01:02:38
lot at Bryant's home including a large military style knife you know what her purse was found in there too
01:02:49
Briant had no way to answer for any of it including two more items police found while he was in
01:02:55
custody video of him buying a shovel the night Jackie disappeared and a kitty pool missing
01:03:02
from his backyard that matched the one Jackie's body was found in we have video of you with this girl should me you're
01:03:10
at the bar you're walking around Walmart at 4:00 in the morning buying a shovel she's found
01:03:21
dead in a pool that came from your back backyard he even got to the point at the
01:03:27
end of his interview with our detective where he said well I must have done it I
01:03:32
I I don't remember doing anything everything points to me it's like I had to have done
01:03:36
it an open and shut case not even close although there was overwhelming evidence
01:03:43
that Bryant had disposed of Jackie's body there was no evidence yet that confirmed how Jackie had died or that
01:03:51
Bryant had killed her and that's when they reached out to me and asked if I could come in and spend some time with
01:03:57
him and and interview him and see what I could get because you have a an expertise in dealing with this kind of
01:04:05
personality right this is kind of my calling Jim Holland is the senior member of an elite team of Texas Rangers a
01:04:12
select division of the Texas State Police he specializes in interviewing some of the country's most prolific
01:04:19
killers and analyzing their thoughts hey how you doing it's so and Char Bryant seemed to fit the
01:04:26
bill Jackie's body had been dismembered before being set on fire how do you begin to understand a mind that would do
01:04:36
that a lot of these people actually want to tell you uh they want to tell someone
01:04:42
at first Bryant kept to his claim that he didn't remember a thing yeah it's crazy CU I really don't remember me the
01:04:49
idea that he doesn't remember doing it oh no it's absolute nonsense so you knew Charles Bryant remembered exactly what
01:04:59
had happened oh yes absolutely and your job was just to pull that out of him right you know you're not a violent dude
01:05:07
you haven't uh haven't really been in trouble Holland says his strategy was to try to make friends with Bryant and get
01:05:15
him talking you know you obviously work out I mean you're stud right you don't want him to look at you as a law
01:05:21
enforcement officer you want him to think of you as a friend a Compadre a drinking buddy you know you kind of go
01:05:27
back to what two boys would talk about in the high school locker room you know about the the girl they kissed on Friday
01:05:33
night you don't have any issues with girls just blow my mind and Holland suggested possible scenarios to see if
01:05:41
Bryant would take it from there okay so so something happens bam there there's a
01:05:48
snap and we need to figure out what that is and maybe you know she got mad maybe
01:05:53
she she's giving you all the signals and and then cut you off I mean there could
01:05:57
be all kinds of different things going on here right I mean chicks right you know
01:06:04
chicks you know as we're going through the interview there I'm watching him I'm um I guess in a way a human lie detector
01:06:11
I'm um I'm reading him and I'm throwing things at him in which I know the answer
01:06:17
and I'm looking for his responses whether they're false uh or true under the pretense of of helping
01:06:24
Bryant remember what happened Holland suggested they do a memory exercise what we're going to do is these mind
01:06:31
exercises which means we're going to move back in time Bryant who first claimed he didn't know who Jackie was
01:06:38
then seemed to remember her he said he could see her coming into the bar she's looking for a job that's what
01:06:46
it was and offering her a ride makes sense it was raining I probably off to ride home there's tons of things in this
01:06:53
that I can tell you right over a pizza as Holland tried to steer Bryant to confess he probed about
01:07:00
a possible motive but what does everyone want to know yeah why and who's the only one who
01:07:07
can tell us that me you know Holland eventually cut to the Chase and asked if what happened with Jackie was really all
01:07:15
about Caitlyn was there a time that you pictured her as this girlfriend that did
01:07:19
you wrong or did anything like that come into play the level of nonsense that came out of
01:07:28
his mouth at different points about that was just astonishing do you think Charles Bryant looks around the bar and
01:07:37
sees Jacqueline Vandergriff ah she looks like Caitlyn it wouldn't surprise me if
01:07:43
he actually Mook her at first you know that saw her from behind and thought man you know my ex is here I think in his
01:07:50
mind that whole night I think that's what he pictured after the murder right after the murder
01:08:01
he took Jacky's phone and used it to add me on [Music] Facebook when Texas Ranger Jim Holland
01:08:24
was brought in to interrogate Charles Bryant the nature of the crime made him wonder if Bryant's brain was wired like
01:08:31
the serial killers he'd encountered in what way is the mind of a serial killer different from common criminal you know
01:08:40
generally people like that tend to be sociopathic or or Psychopathic mindsets and it's just a different game
01:08:46
psychopath would be someone who's basically born with a a scar on their brain and a sociopathic mindset is um
01:08:53
something that Society has brought on something happened to them that changed their psyche something maybe had
01:09:00
happened in his childhood Christy Dixon got a glimpse of Charles Bryant psyche firsthand she met him on a dating app
01:09:07
the year before Jackie Vander Griff's death he seemed pretty quiet and reserved almost like he was shy by the
01:09:16
second or third time that we were hanging out um I noticed he was getting pretty attached pretty quickly and I
01:09:24
just was not there it was very casual to me after she broke things off he continued to pursue her Bryant even told
01:09:32
her that he loved her chrisy says they'd never even shared a kiss it was a little
01:09:39
too much too soon too fast I work with abused children and that to me kind of stuck out christe says that's when she
01:09:47
asked Brian about his childhood he told her he had been molested a claim that 48
01:09:53
hours could not independently verify I remember thinking that makes sense I'm not a psychologist or anything but his
01:10:00
behavior sort of came off to me as maybe an abused child or someone who is just needing that extra love that most people
01:10:10
probably aren't seeking still christe thought he was harmless and stayed in touch I thought
01:10:17
he was just a really nice guy and felt sorry for him I'm not an angry guy I'm not aggressive as stranger Holland
01:10:24
continued his interrogation he wanted to see if Bryant would answer the key question how did Jackie Vander Griff
01:10:32
died her autopsy didn't provide many answers there's a lot we didn't know we didn't know where it occurred we didn't
01:10:39
know exactly how it broke down and so that's what my goal was Holland wondered if the crime had a sexual element but
01:10:45
initially Bryant denied anything sexual took place I recall having sex you don't
01:10:52
no nor that people having sex after three more hours of interrogation Bryant said they did have sex kinky sex
01:11:01
according to Bryant Jackie wanted to be choked with an oversized zip tie that just happened to be in his car she
01:11:09
didn't fight you in any way when when you're putting it on the consensual sex aspect of it was
01:11:15
was one of those things that that no I I felt strongly that he was lying about and Bryant also claimed that neither he
01:11:22
nor Jackie had tightened the zip tie intentionally okay so you think he just tightened up on its own basically that's
01:11:29
that like it had a snag on something okay then what happened try to remember she's not responsive
01:11:43
sh are you just thinking this is a complete and total lie yeah it's total fabrication did he killer yes absolutely
01:11:51
when you deal with these people it's it's so rare that you would sit down with them and they would just tell
01:11:57
you A to Z this is what occurred and they're always going to leave out things that make them look really bad in other
01:12:04
words there's an excuse I'm not a bad person I didn't mean for this to happen it was an accident although Bryant was
01:12:11
evasive about how Jackie died as Holland led him through the memory exercise Bryant went into gruesome detail about
01:12:20
how he disposed of her body K what do you see in the cool garbage bags right now tell me exactly what you
01:12:31
see occurring after that go true and what happens next put it on fire the fire why do you burn the
01:12:48
body even if he couldn't admit to murder Bryant seemed to waver between denying and acceptance at one point conceding
01:12:56
that the evidence showed he had to have done it I can't fight it it's obviously me
01:13:03
after an intense 6-hour interrogation and with mounting evidence Charles Bryant was finally charged with Jackie
01:13:10
Vander Griff's murder Christy Dixon could not believe the news that night I actually was scared to
01:13:18
go to sleep I had nightmares he had never threatened me before but just the fact that
01:13:23
someone that I felt that I knew had murdered someone potentially I was terrified for Caitlyn Mathis her worst
01:13:32
fears were confirmed and when she tried to learn more about the woman Bryant killed she made a shocking discovery on
01:13:41
Facebook I looked up Jackie Vandergriff and I realized oh my God I'm already friends
01:13:47
with her Caitlyn says that digital friendship began after Jackie's death you got a friend request from Jackie
01:13:56
Vander yes Caitlyn believes that Facebook friend request could only have come from one person Charles Bryant that
01:14:06
really sounds diabolical it was Brian pleaded not guilty to Jackie's murder his defense
01:14:15
was the same story he told Ranger Holland these two young people met they consumed a lot of alcohol our position
01:14:24
is they had sex kinky sex i'llbe it and she died Brian's court appointed defense
01:14:30
attorney glennis McGinty says Jackie Vander Griff's death was a tragic accident are you telling me there's no
01:14:38
evidence that Charles Bryant killed Jackie Vander not direct evidence prosecutors Lucas Allen and Anna
01:14:46
Hernandez believed the evidence they did have would be enough but they also knew
01:14:51
that most jurors want to motive and they weren't sure they'd be able to tell this
01:14:56
jury why they thought Jackie was targeted you have to wonder what is driving this person to do something like
01:15:03
that in your minds there is no doubt that the murder of Jackie vandagriff is connected to the stalking of Caitlyn
01:15:13
matthysse yes I think we believe that definitely she might have just been victim number one with Caitlyn being
01:15:19
victim number two to help prove this the prosecution was hoping the judge would allow Caitlyn
01:15:26
to testify against her ex-boyfriend turn stalker in open court I felt sick what do you think was the most
01:15:40
telling part of Charles Bryant's interview take a look at the evidence in the case against Bryant on Facebook at
01:15:46
48 hours Jackie was the most special person I know I'll never meet someone like her again in April 2018 a year and
01:16:06
a half after Jackie Vander Griff's untimely death Charles Bryant was standing trial for her murder her friend
01:16:14
Jackie Tan could not bring herself to be there I wanted to go but I'm going to be
01:16:22
honest I couldn't look at him Charles Bryant would have to answer for a long list of items the prosecution had
01:16:30
collected including that giant zip tie the shov purchased the night Jackie died and that large knife which police
01:16:38
believe he used to cut up her body all founded his house this is something that you pray
01:16:46
every night does not happen to your child when they go off to school investigators had also found a stun gun
01:16:52
in his car with Jackie's DNA on it but it appears Jackie was spared at least one haror prosecutors Anna Hernandez and
01:17:01
Lucas Allen say the medical examiner was able to run tests on Jackie's remains and found no evidence of sexual assault
01:17:10
there was Zero evidence to support that they had any type of sexual encounter prosecutors say this undermines Bryant
01:17:17
story that this was kinky sex gone wrong his attorney glennis McGinty how could they have had sex if there's no evidence
01:17:26
no evidence to the degree of no sperm found in her that doesn't mean they didn't have some type of consensual
01:17:34
sexual uh encounter she likes it making out prosecutors chose not to play that interrogation tape for the jury which
01:17:43
meant Bryant would have to take the stand if he wanted jurors to hear his version of events he elected not to
01:17:50
shouldn't he be explaining to the jury why he's not at fault for her death and then that flies in the face of our
01:17:58
constitutional rights but the defense knows it has an uphill battle to convince a jury that
01:18:05
Brian is not guilty of murder while admitting he disposed of Jackie's body if he says it was just an accident why
01:18:13
didn't he call for help sure fair question in toxicated panicked and his mind would not process all of that to
01:18:23
make a rational decision that you or I would have made call the police but Bryant went further than simply
01:18:29
discarding Jackie's body much much further and prosecutors wanted the jury to hear their Theory a huge piece of
01:18:38
that story was the stalking but before the jury could hear from Caitlyn the judge would have to
01:18:47
rule on whether or not to allow this evidence how is he his boyfriend local TV cameras were there when without the
01:18:55
jury pres Caitlyn took the stand and faced her ex I was disgusted just to see his face did he look at you did you meet
01:19:05
eyes at one point we had to when they made me described to the court what he was
01:19:12
wearing and he just had this smirk on his face there's nothing really that can prepare you for that is there no the
01:19:19
second I walked out those doors I started balling in the end the judge ruled against
01:19:26
Caitlyn being able to tell her story to the jury it was definitely a real blow to us that was the right decision why he
01:19:35
had not been convicted of anything with Caitlyn as the jury went out to deliberate the defense was hopeful I
01:19:42
don't believe that they could prove that he murdered her I don't think that they
01:19:48
provve that but would the jury agree they were out for a little over 2 hours and even without hearing Caitlyn's Story
01:19:56
We the jury find the defendant Charles de Bryant Jr guilty of the offense of murder Charles Bryant was found guilty
01:20:03
of Jackie Vander Griff's murder and dismemberment to your way of thinking was Justice Done
01:20:12
yes I knew she was up there and said thank you because prosecutors had no evidence Bryant committed another crime
01:20:22
at the same time as Jackie's murder like rape or kidnapping he was not eligible for the death penalty he was sentenced
01:20:30
to life as terrible as it is is to say but I wanted the death penalty under Texas law Brian could be
01:20:38
eligible for parole after 30 years Caitlyn says she feels like she's still looking over her shoulder and
01:20:46
always will be I fear that when he gets out he'll come and find me and do something something to either me or
01:20:53
someone that I love that's my biggest fear ever since this happened Caitlyn and her mother have been thinking about
01:21:04
Jackie and her family this whole time I wanted to reach out but I didn't know how they felt nearly 2 years after
01:21:12
Jackie died they finally met her grandmother bless her heart she immediately came up to us and to Caitlyn
01:21:21
and hugged her and said I've been so worried about you these past two years [Music]
01:21:29
wow Karen why is this the part that gets you he took away their little girl and the the pain I saw in their
01:21:42
eyes I could feel their pain and yet the grandmother was telling Caitlyn she was
01:21:48
worried about Caitlyn yes you sound like very special people they [Music] are Caitlyn says she struggled with the
01:22:01
fact that she survived and Jackie did not this so easily could have been you and some days I wish it
01:22:14
was it's just the guilt that eats me up sometimes I would have easily taken her place if I had the chance
01:22:23
[Music] Jackie vander's family has endowed an internship in health and wellness at
01:22:32
Texas Women's University in her name a young mother murdered there was only one suspect in this case who else
01:22:41
would want this sweet young lady murdered decades later the prime suspect arrested but a witness changes
01:22:48
everything I kept the secret for 30 years 48 hours Saturday at 109 Central on [Music]
01:23:21
CBS for anyone who knows Carmen there's just a magic to her she was going through
01:23:29
this transition ending her marriage there was just no question that we were meant to spend the rest of our lives
01:23:38
together hadn't heard from her that day um left a couple messages hey darling how you doing me and um really concerned
01:23:48
I am that couple of messages were in please give me a call just to this you know you're okay got panicky it just I
01:23:55
knew something just wasn't right and finally called the um police there was quite a struggle a heck
01:24:08
of a fight had gone on in that room furniture was turned over potted plants were knocked over uh there was blood
01:24:15
everywhere ceiling walls carpet was Blood Stained everywhere I think it was fairly clear to that a murder had
01:24:24
occurred I knew from the time I had children that the worst thing that would ever happen that could ever happened to
01:24:31
me would be to lose a child and in this case she was just ripped out of our Lives somebody had to have a motive for
01:24:39
this to happen I only know one person that had anything to gain Tom my ex-son-in-law an English Professor but
01:24:47
he he couldn't do that he doesn't have the guts I told Mr Murray that his ex-wife Carmen had died and that we
01:24:56
needed to speak to him about that in me you have not just a likely uh suspect but a convenient one why didn't you just
01:25:08
arrest him then and there we couldn't prove that he had done it if this scenario falls apart you're very well
01:25:15
back to square War we didn't have a lot of physical evidence we never found any bloody clothing we never found a murder
01:25:23
weapon we were going to have a tough road ahead of us I began to think about all the things
01:25:33
that I did wrong I didn't spend enough time with her I didn't call her often enough the fact that someone took her
01:25:43
life away it was important to me that there would be some justice this crime will be solved I'll spend every damn
01:25:50
penny I've got a mind for [Music] [Music] [Music] murder [Music] you don't meet many people in your life
01:26:32
like my daughter so caring about everybody and almost everything when they talk about Carmen
01:26:40
the oldest of their four daughters that's K Danny and Judy Ross are never at a loss for words she's bubbly she's
01:26:48
fun to be around she makes the room warm she's the sunshine Judy even put together a list of words that come to
01:26:54
her mind when she thinks of kmen brilliant empathetic thoughtful spiritual patient political loving
01:27:01
peaceful delightful silly playful Courageous full of life daughter of our [Music]
01:27:12
youth and Carmen's 1985 wedding to her sweetheart Tom Murray was one of the best days Dany and Judy ever had
01:27:21
beautiful absolutely beautiful both of them wrote their wedding vows I stood there and cried through the whole thing
01:27:28
was your husband the only one crying that day no there were some others that was a happy day
01:27:39
absolutely Carmen met Tom at Ohio State University but it wasn't a typical College romance she was a junior he was
01:27:47
her English Professor I was hesitant because I didn't know why a professor would be interested in one of his
01:27:52
students and is he married and how do you know mhm these are questions I've heard parents ask in the past well sure
01:27:59
absolutely sure absolutely Tom Murray was only 27 a firste professor and once she met him Judy was impressed he was
01:28:09
very easy to talk to very proper good manners you know everything did you like him absolutely did you love him
01:28:17
absolutely absolutely Carmen's three little sisters Samantha Heather and April who never had a
01:28:24
brother were delighted to At Last have a brother-in-law it was family he was we hang out we'd have Thanksgiving and
01:28:31
Christmas dinner and laugh and tell stories right after they got married they came over every Sunday after church
01:28:37
and we had Sunday dinner together he was attending church with us he didn't drink
01:28:41
excessively he didn't smoke he exercised this is something that the two of us uh
01:28:46
created together he was polite all the time around everyone two out of three children w nestled each snug in her bed
01:28:53
Heather had fallen asleep on the stairway again and April had to be gagged tied and bodily carried up to her
01:28:59
room and I said Tom you're too good to be true in 1988 after Carmen graduated from
01:29:07
law school the couple moved to Manhattan Kansas where Tom took a job teaching Linguistics at Kansas State University
01:29:15
his colleague Lyman Baker says Murray made an immediate impression a very gentle guy he had a very sharp mind
01:29:22
personable reasonable good listener serious did his work you know I always got the impression from people that they
01:29:27
really appreciated having a man like that to work with and despite the fact that his specialty Linguistics can be a
01:29:34
little tedious Tom Murray managed to make it almost exciting he was a great teacher there seemed to be something
01:29:40
very gentle and at the same time very endearing and caring never came with any notes or anything he would just come in
01:29:48
sit on the desk just like we are and deliver his lesson and I thought that was pretty pretty you know admirable
01:29:53
because he knew everything about the subject but while Tom Murray was on the academic FastTrack Carmen was struggling
01:29:59
to find her place in the world she gave up law after just a few years and instead hoping to change people's lives
01:30:07
in less confrontational ways she became a mediator she would always say she was a recovering attorney and um she wanted
01:30:17
to help people though so she decided to mediate cuz she thought she could help them come to you know a solution without
01:30:22
having to go through all that but Tom and Carmen were searching for a solution to their own problem they could not
01:30:30
decide whether to have a child when they first got married they were going to have children Tom wanted a bunch then
01:30:35
they were married for 13 years and now Tom doesn't want any children and she's now changed careers and now she wants
01:30:42
children in 1998 despite the disagreement Carmen became pregnant and that December she gave birth to a
01:30:50
daughter Kiara he was angry I think with Carmen being pregnant and never treated
01:30:56
her the same after that I think he punished her Carmen stopped working she loved being a mother but felt she was
01:31:02
Raising Kiara alone and Tom's indifference to the baby LED car to question other parts of her life she
01:31:10
felt as if she was living a life that just didn't fit very well with how she felt about things and how she believed
01:31:17
Angela Hayes Carmen's best friend it sounds cliche but she wanted so much to help people and she felt as if she
01:31:26
wasn't able to do that in the way that her life was playing out Carmen was about to make a momentous decision when
01:31:33
Kiara was still a toddler Carmen changed careers again and became a Healer she was in an apprentice program where she
01:31:42
was physically doing treatment of people in the local area and a lot of people made fun of it because they didn't
01:31:48
understand it perhaps even her husband Carmen was practicing congr a spiritual approach to medicine that claims to
01:31:57
teach the body to heal itself in September 2002 she went to a consr conference in Witchita and that's where
01:32:05
she met Larry Lima she came home and said have you ever looked into somebody's eyes and just felt like you
01:32:12
know you were soulmates just like that the conventional thinking is that's the way you're supposed to feel about your
01:32:17
husband true and I think she did up until maybe that day how did she changed when she met Larry Lima she was kmen
01:32:24
again smiled and she had the sparkle back in her eyes she was like almost too happy like why are you this happy I mean
01:32:31
Larry Lima was a social worker living in San Diego shortly after they met the couple began an affair are you upset
01:32:39
about the relationship that she was in it bothered me it hurt me because she was acting in ways that uh a lot of
01:32:47
people in the world act that who don't have respect for their spouse and just are out living for their own
01:32:52
self-gratification but after Years of Living what Carmen considered an unfulfilled life her friends thought
01:33:00
change was good for her she was extremely happy and not only had I never seen her that happy I've never seen
01:33:07
anybody that happy she felt that her life was unfolding as she'd always wanted her life to be and it wasn't long
01:33:15
before Carmen decided she wanted to divorce Tom Murray she tried to get him to go to counsel she tried to make it
01:33:23
work and she eventually just said it isn't going to work but the trouble was only just beginning because Carmen had
01:33:32
not only decided to leave Tom she decided to take their daughter with her how does a peaceloving mediator type
01:33:41
person react to a nasty custody battle she described it to us that her mama bear claws are going to have to come
01:33:50
out [Music] this is like the morning light and a very dark night Larry Lima still
01:34:06
remembers the first time Carmen Ross caught his eye we met at a workshop in Witchita Kansas and she had this plate
01:34:14
and uh I walked by and she you know just very kindly asked if I wanted a piece of
01:34:19
watermelon and I grabbed a watermelon seed and ate it and walked away she just kind of raised her eyebrows and said
01:34:25
afterwards that she knew you know that that was the moment Larry lives in San Diego and by
01:34:33
the fall of 2002 Carmen was flying to see him as often as possible she confided to Larry that her marriage to
01:34:41
Tom Murray was ending something had kind of died inside she had worked very hard
01:34:46
and been unhappy for a very very long time in her marriage in her marriage yeah in June 2003 after muray grudgingly
01:34:55
agreed to divorce Carmen she began making plans to move to California but even though Tom Murray didn't want
01:35:02
children at first he now was not about to let go of their daughter Kiara we had hoped to work out you know some sort of
01:35:10
an agreement that uh would be best for Kiara to go back and forth and just clearly wasn't going to be feasible did
01:35:18
she want him in her life absolutely in k his life absolutely so did I and I know
01:35:24
how important it is for a child to be with both parents as much as possible so Carmen left Manhattan and moved here to
01:35:31
Lawrence Kansas about 90 minutes away from Tom Larry Lio is now planning to move here and join her Carmen and Tom
01:35:40
were temporarily sharing custody of Kiara but working with a mediator to negotiate a permanent settlement Carmen
01:35:47
was determined to work things out she didn't want to hurt him him even though she was leaving him she still wanted she
01:35:54
wanted to be friends with him she really believed that in some point in time they
01:35:59
would become friends again but while Carmen was trying to bridge their differences Tom was busy Burning Bridges
01:36:06
clearly he was angry and certainly sent emails and phone calls that upset her were you surprised that he was putting
01:36:12
up such a fight on the custody issue oh no no no CU that's all he has left but also he wanted to win he's a winner but
01:36:20
this time Carmen was determined to win on November 11th 2003 she arrived at the mediation session and put her foot down
01:36:29
she told Tom that she wanted K to live with her and then I was moving there and how was she emotionally at that point I
01:36:37
think that in the midst of feeling anxious and and a bit afraid that there was also a
01:36:45
sense of relief because she had done it she had done it yeah but she was clearly
01:36:50
satined and afraid of how it was going to turn out by the next night when Larry called from San Diego Carmen was feeling
01:36:58
better we spoke for hours at Wednesday night and I thought um that she was in a fairly good place I mean um that we were
01:37:07
going to get through this as it turned out that was the last conversation they ever had they didn't hear from her that
01:37:14
next morning I uh I knew something was wrong on Friday afternoon Larry frantically called the Douglas County
01:37:21
Sheriff's Department detective Doug Woods went to carman's house to investigate and when he got there it was
01:37:27
almost too much even for him Blood on the floor Blood on the walls Blood on the ceiling Furniture had been turned
01:37:33
over potted plants and stuff were broken against the fireplace there was a great
01:37:37
degree of brutality I think that went on in this house and in the middle of the room Carmen Ross lay dead beaten and
01:37:45
stabbed to death at the age of 40 I remember sensing that um this this is just not
01:37:55
true Carmen's house was now a crime scene one that promised a wealth of physical evidence as crime- scene
01:38:02
investigators combed the house for Clues detective Woods drove to Manhattan to tell Tom Murray his ex-wife was dead Mr
01:38:12
Murray came to the door opened the door I told Mr Murray that his ex-wife Carmen
01:38:16
had died and that we needed to speak to him about that what did he say Mr Murray
01:38:20
asked me if we had to do it right now he said do we have to do this now and you said I said it would be best if we could
01:38:25
do this right now so Murray agreed to go with Woods to a nearby police station did you have to convince him to talk no
01:38:33
sir to the extent that I'm helping in your solving the case I'm tickled the death to participate he was free to go
01:38:39
but I'm not holding you here against your will no okay you're here of your own free will and you're agreeing to
01:38:43
stay you don't have to keep ring you haven't been mean to me and you're not holding me against my in fact it turned
01:38:48
out the professor couldn't stop talking well let me ask you this he sat with Detective woods and others from 8:30
01:38:55
that night until 6:00 the next morning without a lawyer when this interrogation began all you had said to to Professor
01:39:03
Murray is that his ex-wife had died yes sir did he want to know what had happened he never asked me how she died
01:39:09
if I were you I'd be looking at me I think you should so in my mind then tell me what a great guy you are why I
01:39:16
shouldn't be pointing the finger at you a little bit right now oh you don't know
01:39:21
me um I'm sort of the original Boy Scout I mean I've always been the straightest
01:39:26
arrow in the quiver he could explain away everything that we would bring at him I think he thought he was smarter
01:39:30
than we were I had bought a fresh pineapple and was cutting it apart and sliced into my sliced into my hand
01:39:40
there Murray's right hand had small cuts and both his wrists were bruised I mean
01:39:48
they all happened in the last two or three days and Murray vehemently denied killing Carmen I never wanted Carmen
01:39:55
dead I wanted her reasonable you have some kind of strategy in mind when you're talking to him basically locking
01:40:01
him into his story then we can start disproving some of the things he says Mr Murray however though would change his
01:40:06
story periodically you're going to look at this with a raised eyebrow I did go out and drive around a bit but I did not
01:40:11
drive to Lawrence I didn't tell you that before it was a cat and mouse game will
01:40:15
you be here sort of looking over my shoulder to leave you alone that went on all night long there's no such thing as
01:40:21
the Perfect Crime you're going to get caught the bad guy always gets caught but if Murray was the bad guy he wasn't
01:40:28
getting caught tonight so at this point you don't have compelling evidence you're not going to you're not going to
01:40:33
Tom get us to sit here and tell you about our case okay I don't want you tell me about the case but I'm
01:40:38
concluding that because if you had compelling evidence wouldn't you just go ahead and arrest
01:40:42
me at 6:00 a.m. Tom Murray went home I was upset with myself because I didn't push the right button or say ask the
01:40:49
right questions or go in the right direction to get him to confess Murray talked so much he was now their number
01:40:56
one suspect but police had nothing against him I really don't know why I got these except a lot of talk they
01:41:02
waited for evidence from the crime scene and finally found nothing we never found
01:41:07
any bloody clothing we never found a murder weapon it just didn't exist Tom Murray continued to teach and to raise
01:41:15
Kiara over the following months Danny Ross feared the murder would never be solved though he was growing suspicious
01:41:23
of the son-in-law he once loved how do you come to terms with that don't have an answer for that because if I had
01:41:30
thought he had actually killed my daughter I would have hurt him right then [Music]
01:41:45
badly nearly 1 year after Carmen Ross was murdered in November 2003 we'd run the gamut of this case it we weren't
01:41:53
going to find any more evidence police still had not arrested anyone then in October 2004 detectives
01:42:02
Doug Woods Pat Pollock and Lyall hagenbush decided they would have to take a chance on a circumstantial case
01:42:09
they arrested their number one suspect Professor Tom Murray I thought we had a good case not great not great
01:42:18
um because we didn't have a lot of physical evidence it was very hard for Carmen's sisters
01:42:23
Samantha Heather and April to believe the charges you don't want somebody that you loved that you gave Christmas
01:42:31
presents to that you hugged and said you loved you don't want them to be the person who could have done
01:42:37
that things were about to get tougher for the Rosses just three months before Murray's trial began the district
01:42:44
attorney and Lawrence was voted out of office leaving this case in the hands of Angela Wilson and assist assistant DA
01:42:51
trouble was she'd never prosecuted a murder before I've handled a number of rape cases in attempted murder case but
01:42:59
this is by far the most involved but Kansas has an unusual law that allows victims to pay for a special
01:43:08
prosecutor to help the District Attorney's office so the Ross family hired Tom bath a noted defense attorney
01:43:16
to be part of the prosecution team I'm assistant counsel which means it's really up to them to decide what role if
01:43:22
any I have in this case they've allowed me to be a full team member Murray has hired two of the
01:43:28
state's best attorneys Pedro irigaray and Bob I I think our best card is the evidence or the lack
01:43:42
thereof morning Danny how you doing in February 2005 the Rosses came to Lawrence determined to win two things
01:43:50
all right a guilty verdict this the state of Kansas versus Thomas E Murray 2004 and custody of Carmen and Tom's
01:43:58
daughter Kara who' been living with them since Tom's arrest on November 13th of 2003 Thomas Murray a precise articulate
01:44:09
college professor bludgeoned his former wife to death in the living room of her home as Angela Wilson Begins the biggest
01:44:16
trial of her career she's a little nervous a few months before Carmen's death she moved into her own apartment
01:44:22
in man apartment in Manhattan that afternoon at 12:15 excuse me at 12:45 and it would be nearly 24 hours or over
01:44:30
24 hours before anybody would know she was dead thank you your honor defense attorney Bob I is eager to exploit the
01:44:38
weaknesses of Angela Wilson's case all they had was a hunch and a hunch is all they have
01:44:45
today it's an emotional day for everyone this is a photograph of Carmen when she
01:44:50
was alive she was the person even for the normally stoic Tom Murray after investigating for more than
01:45:00
a year the best piece of evidence against Murray is still the first piece his 10-hour videotaped interview with
01:45:07
the police I'm going to go ahead and step out these folks from douas County will go ahead investigators asked muray
01:45:13
about the day of Carmen's murder and Thursday morning did you drive to Lawrence no and I drove home and I agre
01:45:21
to my midterms Murray was seen at 8:30 a.m. when he dropped his daughter off at the babysitters and again around noon
01:45:29
when he got her back no one saw him in between and detectives believe that's when he drove 90 mies to Lawrence to
01:45:37
kill kmen in my mind I can't get there in back inside of the time I have available but detective Lyall hagenbush
01:45:47
says Murray Could Hagen Bush knows because he did it we were able to show that Tom Murray could drive from
01:45:54
Manhattan to Lawrence and have uh plenty of time to kill Carmen Ross and return to
01:46:03
Manhattan detectives don't think it would have taken long for Murray to kill Carmen they think he beat her first then
01:46:11
stabbed Carmen with a knife he got from her kitchen I didn't do it I mean I'll sit here and say this until I'm blue in
01:46:19
the face you can shoot to believe me or not all I can do is tell you the truth there are times when Murray
01:46:26
appears genuinely upset and times when he's not you are a very skilled interviewer Pat you've been
01:46:37
trained very well you to Doug I mean you're good at what you guys do you knew during the time that when the defense
01:46:44
finally gets a chance to speak Pedro irigaray says even though it lasted almost 10 hours Tom Murray's statement
01:46:52
proves nothing have you found one bit of conclusive proof that Mr Murray was at Carmen Ross's house on the 13th of
01:47:07
November I'm not aware of any in fact the state's own forensic experts who prosecutors hope will link
01:47:15
Murray to the crime actually helped the defense team make its case there were 54
01:47:21
or 55 samples tested from Miss Ross's home and in none of those Mr Murray's DNA was found correct correct there's no
01:47:31
DNA and there's only one fingerprint matching Tom Murray the only fingerprint that was found of Thomas Murray's was on
01:47:39
a brown dropper bottle yes and no prints of his were found anywhere else that is
01:47:45
correct it is true is it not then the defense says the evidence suggests there was was more than one person at the
01:47:51
crime scene police found what looked like two bloody shoe prints neither of those two shoe
01:47:59
prints matched anything to your knowledge belonging to Mr Murray that's correct no further
01:48:11
questions faced with a lack of forensic evidence the prosecution argues Murray is the only person with a motive to kill
01:48:18
Carmen they believe he exploded after a mediation session just 2 days before the
01:48:24
murder it was apparent to her that they were going to have to go into a custody battle and prosecutors say Tom Murray
01:48:32
had another motive the oldest one in the book jealousy because Carmen's fiance Larry Lima was about to move to Lawrence
01:48:41
were you in love with her passionately when were you planning to move to Lawrence first part of
01:48:49
December you familiar with that exhibit can you point for the jury the location where
01:48:57
you would have gone into the house as the state methodically Works through four weeks of testimony he seemed
01:49:03
disheveled he seemed tired the trial is long were you able to determine the number of stab wounds here in this neck
01:49:10
area that would be 13 and at times difficult this is a tear of the tissue that's been caused by Crush of the
01:49:17
tissue between a hard object and the bone underneath it's a numb feeling because
01:49:29
as I sat there and I saw the all the pictures it makes me think thoughts that I don't think a human being should have
01:49:36
to [Music] think prosecutors say Murray carefully planned Carmen's murder and cleaned up
01:49:45
afterwards and they're about to present some startling evidence explaining how an English Professor could possibly know
01:49:53
so much about murder these are the computers that were taken from Mr Murray the search term was how to murder
01:50:01
someone and not get [Music] [Music] caught after weeks of testimony Professor Thomas Murray's attorneys say things are
01:50:27
going their way the physical evidence that they've presented it has by and large shown exactly what we thought it
01:50:34
would and that is that Tom Murray was not at the scene of this crime that's just what Danny Ross is worried about if
01:50:40
in fact the worst case happens and he is acquitted then the jury is going to put
01:50:47
him back with my granddaughter yes three generations of Rosses from five different states have moved to Lawrence
01:50:54
Kansas hand me the remote for the duration of the trial detectives were unable to find any evidence during but
01:51:01
the routine is becoming a grind it's really hard to set there patiently and let them do their job and it concerns me
01:51:10
is he going to get the justice that he really deserves there's good reason for the Rosses to be nervous and I think
01:51:19
kmen that is line the prosecutors started out strongly playing Tom Murray's revealing police interview all
01:51:27
right but now assistant DA Angela Wilson is having a tough time trying her first
01:51:33
murder what was the quantity of blood involved in that case objection you're H this that's not relevant on a case of
01:51:40
this magnitude it has been overwhelming at times questions about webites but things are starting to look up for the
01:51:46
prosecution and the Rosses the jury is about to hear the most powerful forensic evidence yet and it's got nothing to do
01:51:55
with blood or DNA have you ever gotten on the internet and looked up any websites that
01:52:02
have to do with crime scenes or polygraphs oh I got under the CSI website occasionally have fantasies
01:52:09
about trying to make it as a uh freelance writer investigators could not have imagined what they discover When
01:52:16
They confiscated Murray's computers it turns out the Professor was not just researching Linguistics although there
01:52:23
is a word for the kind of searches he was doing online suspicious maybe even damning Robert Dean Brown Dean Brown is
01:52:33
a forensic computer expert is this he dug around in the recesses of Murray's computers 11:25 a.m. the search for on
01:52:43
Yahoo quotes murder For Hire just a few seconds later is there another search done yes ma'am there's a search for how
01:52:51
to hire an assassin did you find anything shortly more than an hour later and there was a search for how to make a
01:53:00
bomb it's beginning to sound like a prosecutor's dream it shows Yahoo search for how to murder someone and not get
01:53:09
caught investigators were thrilled with the secrets Murray's computers revealed especially when they learned the
01:53:15
searches were conducted just as the custody battle Tom and car were having was getting nasty when you have somebody
01:53:23
searching numerous times for this kind of topic and then somebody winds up dead it's kind of a clue me you're
01:53:33
hoping in part to to hoist this guy on his own hard drive sure yes can you do it the evidence is there but the defense
01:53:45
has an explanation the next page shows a site visit on the 10th of November is something called twiz
01:53:54
tv.com script CSI Mr Murray was interested in the possibility of writing an episode for a
01:54:04
CSI type program is your best explanation of these internet searches that they're just an unfortunate
01:54:12
coincidence what would you like for us to do invent something I mean a trial lawyer works with what he or she has to
01:54:20
work with the computers offer up more bad news for Professor Murray emails that show his anger with
01:54:29
Carmen was growing and even more pissed at her for beginning an intimate relationship with
01:54:35
another man and even more pissed at her for continuing that relationship through
01:54:40
all the months that she and I were supposed to be making an effort at working things out but I can't just sit
01:54:46
back and have my daughter taken away from me I'm increasing ly coming to feel like an animal that's being backed into
01:54:52
a corner state is resting the prosecution rests Tom Murray's defense will make three main points first a custody
01:55:04
attorney told Murray he had no reason to fear that Carmen would take Kiara away if one parent wants to leave the state
01:55:12
of Kansas fine but they don't take the child with them next the defense argues even though Murray expressed his anger
01:55:20
in emails he was still committed to working with Carmen and that's according to the mediator herself Nancy Hughes
01:55:29
they worked well together it was pretty clear that they were trying to support each other in doing in taking care of
01:55:35
their daughter and finally the defense argues not only is there no evidence Professor Murray was even at the crime
01:55:42
scene there is a mystery blood stain on Carmen's sink suggesting someone else was at Carmen's house
01:55:50
defense expert Robert Trestle would you please describe for the jury what that stain represents to you what we call a
01:56:00
pattern blood stain transfer do you have an opinion as to what could have caused
01:56:07
that particular stain on that pedestal sink my impression is this is a tenant shoe print if it is a shoe print the
01:56:14
defense says it's not Murray's can we get copies of your notes please but Angela Wilson has hit her stride and
01:56:21
hits back attacking the experts expertise you don't have any certifications in the area of blood
01:56:28
stain analysis do you certifications I'm sorry sir but that's a question that just requires a yes or no answer so if
01:56:35
you could please answer my question the one that I'm asking you don't have any certifications in the area of blood
01:56:42
stain pattern analysis do you no I do not I felt I could see Angela just get a little more confident as the trial went
01:56:52
along I think she did a superb job look at the knife look at the edge and she saved a
01:56:59
little drama for her closing argument this is a person who was bent on murder 13
01:57:08
times he slammed that knife into her neck ladies and gentlemen Tom Murray never takes the stand the defense pins
01:57:18
its hopes on Reasonable Doubt and they argue there is plenty of it let's go back to the crime scene there's none of
01:57:26
his blood there none of his fingerprints none of his Footprints no one sees his car there no one nor any
01:57:37
scientific test can put Tom Murray on that house on the 13th for the Ross family this is now one
01:57:45
of the hardest parts of the trial waiting for the jury to decide died I recognize that the jury could find him
01:57:53
innocent and if he is found innocent then my heart will be broken again because we'll have to give our
01:57:59
granddaughter to [Music] him I'm past being hurt I'm just very angry at what this man did to my
01:58:14
daughter it's been nearly a year and a half since Danny Ross's daughter Carmen was murdered he has now taken her away
01:58:22
from us so I'd never get a chance to hug her ever again there's no doubt in the Ross's
01:58:30
Minds about who killed Carmen but the fate of the accused murderer her ex-husband Tom Murray now rests with the
01:58:37
jury it's putting the case in the hands of 12 people that don't know everything that we know they get to make the
01:58:45
decision and that's that's very tough I have looked over at him still sitting there and I watch him and I'm like I
01:58:51
loved you there's no wiggle room for the jurors they either have to convict Maria
01:58:56
of first-degree murder or set him free everything is on the table as we speak right over there Murray's attorneys
01:59:04
repeatedly argued that but Murray's life is not the only one at stake Ross and Murray shared custody of if he's
01:59:10
acquitted the Rosses would have to give him Kiara the daughter he had with Carmen it's the worst case scenario the
01:59:17
Rosses hope they'll never face my daughter was killed and we can't bring her back but having my granddaughter raised
01:59:27
in a proper environment is what my daughter would have wanted and that's the most important thing to our family
01:59:32
all rise do you somly swear the testimony you're about to give it took five weeks to present all the evidence
01:59:39
and the jury is taking its time going through it all I believe he's guilty and I believe he's going to be found guilty
01:59:46
after 3 days of deliberations there's a vert ICT it is St Patrick's Day and the professor appears relaxed reading a book
01:59:54
on the Polish language even as he waits for the jury to come back all right state of Kansas versus Thomas E Murray
02:00:06
verdict we the jury find the defendant Thomas E Murray guilty of murder in the first
02:00:14
degree Murray is one of the few people in the courtroom who contains himself Carmen's family is
02:00:22
overwhelmed you've gotten the outcome that you wanted what does Justice feel like thank
02:00:31
God for so long it has been all about this process coming to an end today this imagining this day and that we have
02:00:41
Kiara she's safe now I can really mourn for Carmen it is also an emotional victory
02:00:47
for the prosecutors especially Angela Wilson who began this trial as a rookie against seasoned defense attorneys and
02:00:55
won big I think this is the the first time I've ever seen a prosecutor cry at of
02:01:01
her when it was a good one yeah there was just so much emotion around this case and around the family and it has
02:01:10
been very good to be included in the family fold I think I joked early on that I was an honorary Ross girl
02:01:17
Carmen's family and her fiance say have the verdict they want and they know it's
02:01:22
now time to move on I'm convinced that this is a domestic violence related homicide Larry remembers Carmen by
02:01:32
volunteering with domestic violence victims at the Family Justice Center in San Diego every victim that comes in
02:01:39
here it's like okay Garmin you know how do we how do we go about making this person's life a little less
02:01:46
traumatic it will be a little harder for the the Rosses who once considered Murray a son and a
02:01:54
brother this guy was part of your life absolutely and it is a very con it's a very confusing conflicting
02:02:03
feeling because I have no doubt that it were his hands that hurt her but I don't know what happened to
02:02:11
his head to come to realize that someone that you love took away someone that you
02:02:17
love how how am I supposed to explain that to my kidss when I don't get it and his
02:02:25
[Music] daughter there'll be no explanations from Tom Murray who remained defiant at
02:02:34
his sentencing I remain nonplused that the jury believed the prosecution's fairy
02:02:43
tale of my involvement in Carmen Ross's death he insisted he was innocent and refused to
02:02:50
apologize I have never raised my hand in Anger against anyone not ever much less against the woman with
02:03:02
whom I created a child and in a rare display of emotion dear Kiara he saved his last
02:03:11
words for his daughter since I can't be with you I'm very glad you're able to live with people love you so
02:03:22
much Kara who is now nine lives with the Rosses at home in Indiana I asked her I said are you
02:03:31
worried about who's going to take care of you and she looked at me like this and she said no I'm glad I have my
02:03:37
family to take care of me and she's got an entire family that adors her and would do anything for her and we'll take
02:03:45
care of her together we will take care of her [Music] go [Music]