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[Music] Moscow will forever be known as a scene of one of the most tragic crimes in
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American history there's still sort of a a Darkness whenever you talk to people it will be ever part of the
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University's history and the town's history there are four very very important names in this case Kaye
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gonzalves Madison Mogan Zanna kodal and Ethan chapen and if you're going to remember
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any names from this case I ask that it be all four my name is Olivia Gonzalez and Kaye was my little
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sister everybody's going to work and you look out the window and there's kids running down the street laughing and
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you're just like how can you be out there playing my daughter's dead you know KY Galis is
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gone stop everything everybody in the whole world stop and everything just keeps
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going my sister Zanna kodal is one of the happiest funniest people I've ever met and I had the
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awesome privilege of growing up with her and I still have a hard time coming to terms with the facts that did
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happen bran cerg is accused of stabbing these four University of Idaho students in the preon hours on November 13th 2022
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uh the murder weapon which was a knife has never been found this is type of survival knife Brian coburger did not
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make his own plea the judge entered a plea for him of not guilty maximum penalties life in prison or the death
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penalty due to the nature of the crimes the state of Idaho is seeking the death penalty he was there to kill he came in
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with a kit I believe he had to kill kit and you believe that everything right down to the Implement of Destruction
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this large Marine knife that was all planned all planned was inhumane you wouldn't do these type of things to any
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living creature let alone an innocent human being the star piece of evidence in the
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prosecution case is the DNA that was found on the knife sheath that was left at the crime scene that there's so much
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other evidence that's also pointing towards nobody else that we're aware of how was Brian cober's car spotted
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leaving the scene why was his cell phone seen there 12 times including the morning after the offense prosecution
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would like everyone to believe that it's an open and shut case but I think the facts they have make the case more open
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than open and shut according to the defense there is no connection whatsoever between Brian
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koberger and the victims and if there is no connection then there is no motive and if there is no motive then it
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becomes very hard to make the case that he is the Killer and this is a graduate student not a trained assassin it's more
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so about putting these pieces together because I know what the puzzle looks like at the end I have the box in front
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of me but I'm missing so many pieces how did all of these pieces fall to create what I'm living in right now
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where did where did this come from [Music] [Music] it was not the news Steve and Christy
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gonzalves wanted to hear in August of 2023 just 6 weeks before the murder trial of Brian coburger was set to begin
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he waved his right to a speedy trial sure you want to be absolutely they would have to wait indefinitely for
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their day in court I was really hoping that um we could get this show on the road because
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uh the not knowing it just it's Agony it's [Music] Agony Steve and Christie the parents of
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Kaylee haven't left anything to chance after the judge issued a gag order to attorneys and law enforcement quote to
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preserve the right to a fair trial they drilled down on their own investigation and are now sharing what they believe
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that investigation found Steve says he believes transparency is the best path to Justice we're not going to just sit
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back and cross our fingers and pray that we're going to get [Music] Justice it has been a long and painful
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Journey for the families of kayy Galvis Maddie Mogan Zanna kotal and Ethan chapen the four po University of Idaho
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students who were savagely murdered by a knife wielding a salent in the we hours
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of November 13th 2022 as they settled down to sleep in their off-campus house on King Road do
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you ever dream of your sister yeah I've had some dreams of her there's times where I prayed and ask
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God to see her another time and I did and just gives me some people knowing that I know she's
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[Music] okay Jasmine kotal who is speaking for the first time was a senior at Washington State University and lived
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only 15 minutes away from her younger sister Zanna often mistaken as twins growing up she says they were best
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friends she was always fun she was uplifting and she took any bad situation and turned it into a good one Jee what
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did you love most about your daughter everything she cared about people she was a people person she sced
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about her friends just as much as like her family for the first time in her life Zanna had fallen in love with
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fellow student Ethan chapen a triplet who loved his siblings boats and working on a tulip farm the sweetest kid ever
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they were just too happy people and they're just seeing the videos and photos of them you can just like tell
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how happy they are they're just amazing together sadly they will now forever be linked in
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death on Sunday morning November 13th zanna's friends started calling Jasmine saying something bad had happened on
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King Road Jasmine rushed over to zanna's house and while you're driving that 8 n
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miles over to the house are you trying to reach your sister then mhm how many times did you call her a lot I called
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her a lot called Ethan a lot her next call was to her father Jeffrey had been visiting Jasmine for Dad's weekend and
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was on his way home so you answer the phone what do you hear I hear her kind of crying and just telling me to get
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back to Moscow and meet me at Santa's house and you know my heart drop instantly race back down
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there the house was cordoned off and swarming with investigators as soon as Jeffrey said he was zanna's father he
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and Jasmine were escorted to the Moscow police department and Jasmine what does the officer say to you and your father I
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I don't remember exactly just that four people passed away and that one was Hanah
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the worst day of your life just your worst nightmare it just happened you know what
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do you do you can't do a damn thing 100 miles away the gonzalves family also had been getting frantic
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calls saying something bad had happened to their daughter KY but no one knew what I just kept saying over and what do
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I do what do we do what do we do finally at around 4: in the afternoon a deputy appeared at their door and we said
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what's going on I can confirm your daughters died passed away point he said there were four victims and we and I
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said four and he said yes ma'am I said can you tell us if one of the victims was
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Manny Mogan and he said yes ma'am Maddie Mogan Kaylee's best friend from childhood give us a sense of just
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how close uh Kaye and Maddie were in life I think that they had a very amazing relationship the epitome of true best
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friends from very early I mean they were sisters through and through they were um completely
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Inseparable as soon as the news hit Olivia the eldest of the five gonzalves children and her parents went into
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detective mode we had zero details we just knew they were gone Olivia got into her sister's call log and frantically
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started cold calling recent numbers she says a friend told her that Kaylee had been at the corner Club bar around 1:07
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a.m. and later texted a ride share driver who Olivia managed to track down the ride share dri said around 145
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Kaylee had texted him requesting a ride from the grub truck which is the local Mac she's food truck to take her back
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home to 1122 King and she had with her another female Olivia then uncovered one of the
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most important leads in the case the ride share driver told her about a camera mounted on the grub truck so I
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was able to look it up and um find Kaye on the video and I saw the girl that she
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was with was Maddie so at that point I knew Kaye and Maddie were together they got into the car to go home together and
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alone the driver told her the exact time Kaylee and Maddie were dropped off at their house on King Road 1:56 a.m. a
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timeline she says she confirmed before the police I immediately took it to the police officers here's her phone
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information here's the right share driver's name Olivia says Kaylee made a call to her boyfriend at 2:56 a.m.
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but he didn't answer the gun solices believe Kaye fell asleep shortly after according to the police affidavit Kaylee
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and Maddie were stabbed to death between 4: and 4:25 a.m. just as they had done since they were little girls they were
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sleeping in the same bed those two best friends since little girls I don't think there's anything
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more terrifying than what they went through I really don't the killer took four lives in a
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matter of minutes but he left behind two surviving roommates one of whom would provide a key description of the
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Intruder he was dressed in black but muscular build and very bushy eyebrows [Music]
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if there is one picture that speaks to the Idaho student murders it is this six smiling college students blissfully
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unaware of the Carnage to come it's staged in a way that is almost in a strange way ominously
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predicting investigative journalist Howard bloom has written extensively on the student murders for Gren Carter's
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online magazine air mail he is now writing a book on the case on the ends of the picture are the two survivors in
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the middle are are are the victims in their huddle together Kaye with a beaming Maddie on her shoulders friends
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for life Ethan with his arm around Zanna Young Love In Full Bloom a moment that should have been a memory of the idilic
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college Years would eternally be a reminder of the gruesome murders that put them in their
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graves what makes it so tragic is they're forever preserved in this moment they'll never be able to
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leave this moment hours after this photo was taken the four friends would be murdered their
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deaths so violent even the house seemed to be bleeding there's literally blood oozing out from the home uh you could
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see it on the exterior walls CBS News consultant Brianna Fox is a former FBI agent and professor of criminology at
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the University of South Florida that's how Bloody and gruesome the crime scene is according to the affidavit which
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outlines law enforcement's investigation the bodies of Zanna and Ethan who is sleeping over were found in or near her
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bedroom on the second floor the bodies of Kaylee and Maddie were on the third floor in the same single bed in mty's
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room how did your daughter die in that house what do you know we know the autopsy we know the means what is
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officially how she died she was assaulted and stabbed several several times her death
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certificate is the ugliest disgusting piece of paper that you will ever see in your life and every line is a horror
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show every line cuz there's causes of death and then there's contributions to death Christie and Steve spoke to
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coroner Kathy mbot before the gag order was issued and they say she told them how the two friends were positioned in
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the bed the bed was up against the wall a headboard was touching the wall and the left side of the bed was touching
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the wall and we believe that Maddie was on the outside and kayy was on the inside according to coroner mbit the
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Killer's first victim was Maddie says Steve and then from Maddie he moved on to your daughter you believe she had
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awakened at that point yes yeah there's evidence to show that she awakened and tried to get out of that situation the
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way the bed was set up is what she was trapped she was trapped we know from the affidavit that cober's cell phone pinged
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in the vicinity of the house 12 times prior to the murder Steve says before the gag order one of
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the lead investigators told him they believe coburger had been scouting out the house you believe these visits were
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like he was like on an intelligence Mission a scouting Mission looking at lifestyle patterns when they came and
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went who came to the house methodical yeah he had to know when people were coming people were going it makes the
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gonzaleses wonder if he'd ever gone inside the house I think that he at least had opened that door went in
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tested the waters looked around Steve says the coroner told him the Killer's Rampage started on the third floor where
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both Maddie and Kaylee had their bedrooms Christie thinks he wasn't expecting to find the two friends
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together in the same bed I do think that his plan went arai I do think that you know he intended to kill one and killed
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four Brianna FOX also believes Zanna and Ethan were collateral damage according to the affidavit Zanna received a door
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Dash food delivery at 4 a.m. then went back to her room on the second floor it's possible says Fox that Zanna still
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awake came face to face with the Killer and she sees somebody that she doesn't expect and I don't think he was
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expecting to see her either one of the two surviving roommates Dylan Mortenson later told the police that she heard
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what she thought was crying coming from zanna's room she heard a male voice say something to the effect it's okay I'm
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going to help you not something a killer would likely say to an intended target says Fox he probably was trying to make
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a split-second decision do I run away do I kill her what do I do and he decided to kill her at approximately 4:17 a.m.
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police say an outside security camera less than 50 ft from zanna's room picked up distorted audio of what sounded like
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voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud shortly after Dylan the surviving roommate whose bedroom was near zanna's
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open the door according to the police affidavit when Dylan opens the door she saw a man dressed in black with a black
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mask and she says he has bushy eyebrows those bushy eyebrows become very important when the police
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are making their identification the man with the bushy eyebrows kept walking to the rear of the
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house without harming Dylan why was Dylan not killed again there's no definitive answer he he didn't kill her
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because he didn't see her he was sort of transfixed on getting out he didn't kill
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her because he was satiated or he was simply too depleted to kill again says Fox even stabbing somebody for a minute
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and a half not only is that Overkill but it actually would become rather exhausting the police believe the murder
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weapon which has not been found was a military style Kar knife similar to this one the details are disturbing this is
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not a civilian knife it was actually meant to tear apart bone ligaments organs so this is a extremely brutal and
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something that you would never expect a person to walk in and want to commit unless they took some pleasure out of
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the brutality of it after seeing the Intruder Dylan the surviving roommate told investigators she locked herself in
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her room it would be almost 8 hours before 911 was called causing an uproar on social media criticizing Dylan's
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alleged inaction but Brianna fox says It's Not Unusual for people to freeze or be too afraid to
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intervene she had no reason to you know know how to handle herself in that moment according to the affidavit the
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male walked towards the backsliding glass door and presumably left the scene but committing murder and getting away
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with it are two different things says Fox for an offender to get away with a crime a murder they have to bat a
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thousand they have to be absolutely perfect they make One Singular mistake that's all it takes and that one
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possible mistake in this case may have been the sheath to the kar knife one like this was found on the bed next to
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Maddie Mogan it would lead investigators to the door of a man studying for a career in
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criminology Brian coburger the alleged killer to see a timeline of the case go to 48 hours.com
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[Music] [Music] day after day and week after week pass and there is no suspect that is arrested
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what was that time like for you that was the worst for 47 days after the murders the families of Kaye Maddie
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Zanna and Ethan and the country waited we do not have a suspect at this time and
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wept and weighed in people of Idaho and those throughout our nation Who provided
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information has been very impressive we've received over 19,000 tips then on December 30th 2022 Brian
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coburger was arrested in albrightsville Pennsylvania at the time his attorney said coburger looked forward to being
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exonerated what goes through your mind when you see the face of the alleged killer oh wonder why who who is this why
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you know never heard of the person before it still is confusing why at this point the families knew as much about
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cob Berger as the public did a PhD candidate studying criminology just 10 miles away at Washington State
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University in pman I remember thinking I only have a few minutes to look up this individual and
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to try to get any credible information before things start getting wonky some of Olivia Gonzalez's online discoveries
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of coburger made her uneasy he had made a few posts on Reddit in which he was conducting seems like a questionnaire to
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uh people in prison or jail who had committed crimes how did you pick your victim or your target for 7 weeks the
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families and the country were left wondering I think for this type of an investigation 47 days is actually quick
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criminologist and CBS News consultant Brianna fox says the Moscow police kept things
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moving starting with a video canvas which produced footage from those early morning
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hours showing a white car making three passes by the girl's house starting around 3:30
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a.m. less than an hour later investigators say the killer struck they noticed that this car
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approached King Road left came back uh almost did a u-turn finally went there around 4:06 in the morning and that car
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then departed in about 25 minutes and sped off multiple surveillance cameras then captured that white car as it
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traveled what appeared to be a less direct route back to pulman Washington arriving around 5:30
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a.m. that information helped investigators identify the make and model of the vehicle and we're looking
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for a 2011 to a 2013 Hye Elantra Washington State Police find the car parked outside graduate housing uh they
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get the license plate and they get Brian cober's name they then get the driver's
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license and they see the bushy eyebrows that in the eyes of one of the Moscow detectives must be the eyebrows of the
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killer now armed with a warrant investigators retrieved cell tower data from that morning which captured
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coburg's phone around 2:47 a.m. in pman when it suddenly stopped connecting to the network according to the affidavit
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this was also around the time cameras caught a white Elantra leaving his apartment complex there was an
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indication that he turned off his cell phone which is something that a lot of people do when they want to avoid law
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enforcement knowing their whereabouts his cell phone signal was picked up again 2 hours later south of Moscow as
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it traveled back toward his apartment building the affidavit described a deeper dive into cob Berger's phone
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history that revealed this was a familiar neighborhood to him going back several months cell phone records
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indicated that he has traveled past and was very near the vicinity of this crime
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scene on 12 separate occasions and Towers actually captured a 13th trip just hours after the murders anecdotally
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a lot of killers they like revisiting the memory of the crime you know I won I was able to get away with this and you
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guys won't catch me but they had one secret weapon to make their case they had the knife sheath and there was a
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microscopic spot of DNA on this could they tie this DNA to coburger according to the affidavit the DNA was found on
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the button snap of the sheath but when investigators ran it through the National Database there were no
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matches it's unclear if Brian cerg knew law enforcement was watching when he left Washington in mid December
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koberger and his father who had flown in from Pennsylvania drove back home together in his white Elantra cobber
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from what I've heard tells the father that he's in trouble with his his job he's concerned enough about his son to
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want to make the drive back with him on the 2500 mile Journey from Washington they are stopped twice for traffic
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violations hello what's also interesting is cober's reaction to the police is this your car okay Co he's pretty calm
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and cool father and son made it home to albrightsville Pennsylvania where Bloom says investigators initiated a stealth
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operation what they did is they sent a team of Pennsylvania state troopers to cob Berger's family's house law
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enforcement recovered cober's father's DNA from the trash outside their home which tested as a high high probability
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it was the biological father of whoever left DNA on the knife sheath so that was
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the Eureka moment which they decided they could get an arrest warrant at that point they made the arrest of Brian
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cobber and they got a separate essentially search warrant for his DNA and when investigators compared his DNA
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to the DNA on the knife sheath they say it was a statistical match at least 5.37
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octillion times more more likely to be cers than anyone [Music] [Music] else where you sit today are you certain
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that Brian Colberg is the killer with what you know I don't trust anybody or anything so I have to see it myself I
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have to see everything as the months pass Steve even chrisy Gonzales remain a united front in
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wanting justice but their weight has brought different perspectives your mind is still open to the potential of course
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that it could have been someone else of course yep I go into that 100% yep of course that's not where you are you know
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yeah that's fine I don't think there's any slam dunk criminologist Brianna fox says says with
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the gag order in place any hint of C Burger's defense has come from court documents it seems that the defense is
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alleging there was a rush to judgment law enforcement an arrest too fast and they focus on their client too
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quickly a defense filing did reveal cob Berger's Alibi for the night of the murders it simply stated Mr coburger was
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out driving alone the defense is not necessarily having to prove that he's innocent they just have to raise out
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both Fox and Howard Bloom think the defense can find ways to poke holes in the prosecution's case challenging some
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of the key evidence presented in the affidavit including the cell phone location data and the white Elantra
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there's other concerns such as whether Brian cober's car was accurately identified at the onset or if that was
00:30:52
revised after knowing what Brian coburger drove the cell phone data makes one suspicious of Co Burger but it's not
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convincing it's not putting someone at someone's doorstep it's putting someone in someone's
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neighborhood if you can raise doubts about the validity and the accuracy of the cell phone data I think you're
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halfway there to getting the case against coburger either a hung jury or a not guilty
00:31:23
verdict and there's more according to the defense that there there was no DNA or forensic evidence found from the
00:31:32
crime scene at the apartment car office or on Brian cober's person so they were basically alleging how could he have
00:31:41
committed such a brutal murder and yet have no evidence found on him of that after Consulting their own investigators
00:31:49
Christy and Steve theorize that coburger likely brought what they call a kill kit
00:31:55
with him what do you mean by a kill kit I think he had a backpack clothes we don't know if it was cover pants we
00:32:03
don't know a defense filing also claimed the presence of other unidentified male DNA
00:32:12
was found on the premises three separate and distinct male DNA profiles were found from the crime scene two were
00:32:20
inside the house one was outside on a glove the defense wants to know who are these people and what role could they
00:32:28
have played in this whole story so what the defense is doing now is trying to look for other narratives that Mak sense
00:32:38
Howard Bloom has written extensively about this case including a piece on a possible alternative defense Theory
00:32:46
involving drugs maybe someone had reneged on a drug payment and this was a retribution of Vengeance for people not
00:32:54
paying for drugs they had ordered I want you guys to respond to one thing that's
00:32:59
out there because speculation that somehow drugs were involved in this attack that's just Hollywood nonsense I
00:33:08
I just dismiss that because I I understand our society wants to believe in some of these movies that they watch
00:33:16
they don't have these crazy lives where they're crossing paths with people like that that storyline of it being drugs
00:33:24
gives people a reason to think why it happened because nobody knows why and the reason I think it happened is
00:33:30
because he wanted to that's what he wanted to do he wanted to commit a murder Brian cober's defense attorneys
00:33:37
argue there's a lack of evidence linking their client to the students the defense
00:33:42
is claiming that the defendant Brian cobber and the victims have absolutely no connection there's no motive in the
00:33:49
minutes after Brian cobber was publicly named the Gonzales family went online they just told us the name and we immedi
00:33:58
started Googling they believe they had found a possible connection through Instagram
00:34:04
and immediately took these screenshots from our investigation of the account it appeared to be the real Brian cerg
00:34:12
account among the people this account was following were Maddie Mogan and Kaylee gonzalves in addition to several
00:34:20
people with the name cerg but when we looked through those it appeared to have other family members that were related
00:34:28
to him at first Steve who works in it was skeptical thinking someone created a fake account immediately following
00:34:37
cober's arrest but according to the family they uncovered more possible connections you would go to Maddie's
00:34:46
Instagram account and look at her pictures and he liked them Brian's name was under a lot of Maddie's pictures
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like that picture and that picture and that picture and that picture so he was actively
00:34:58
looking at the Instagram accounts and the importance of that is what just digital evidence that this particular
00:35:05
account had some type of connection with the with the victims 48 Hours has not confirmed the
00:35:12
authenticity of this account which has since been deleted and the gag order prevents investigators from
00:35:20
[Music] commenting after dedicating months looking for their own answers the gonzalves
00:35:28
say they are mentally prepared for trial no matter when it begins I think he's done he's going to feel all of us just
00:35:36
staring at the back of his head and he's going to know that we are the gonal ofis
00:35:40
family and he knows what he did to our daughter [Music] how could this happen two the group of
00:36:07
kids that are doing everything the way they're supposed to do to not known is what keeps you awake
00:36:15
at night and it's every day all day it never stops why why why there is no why it is as unexplainable today as a
00:36:27
was the day Kaylee gonzalves Maddie Mogan Zanna kotal and Ethan chapen were murdered I wish I wish we knew they were
00:36:40
all four of them were just such a great people and made such of an impact on the
00:36:46
lives around them for now the families are left with thoughts of what might have been
00:36:58
Kaye Jade Gonzalez has been recommended to receive a postumus bachelor's degree her family will receive the diploma of
00:37:08
the University of Idaho on May 13th 2023 exactly 6 months from the day of the murders an occasion
00:37:18
that would have been a cause for celebration graduation was instead another reminder of what was lost
00:37:27
seeing all those graduation photos it just they should be here graduation is just one of many
00:37:37
Milestones that will be missed she would have been my maid of honor and I probably would have been
00:37:44
hers and it's like sad to have to go through those life moments without her Jasmine kotal planned to work side
00:37:54
by side with her sister Zanna creating their own marketing business it's just not the same without
00:38:02
her because she just brought like such a crazy different energy than anybody else
00:38:07
I've ever met Kaye gonal this's future was in sight she had accepted a job in Austin
00:38:15
working for an IT firm Kaylee not only pushed herself say her parents but push them we lost that person that would
00:38:25
force us to make new memories and force us to go and take on something that seems a little daunting at first you
00:38:33
guys for the gonalves amid all the loss there was an addition to the family when
00:38:39
in February Olivia gave birth to a baby girl so her name is Theodora MD Kay obviously MD Kay is after Maddie and
00:38:49
Kaye and if one were to believe in signs there were says Olivia several with Theodora MADD K's arrival in the
00:38:59
hospital her room number 1113 was the same as the date of the murders November 13th and eily the time of birth 4:21
00:39:11
a.m. is in the time frame that Kaye and Maddie are believed to have been killed to have birth and life and firsts
00:39:21
first Giggles first walks that they would be there somehow you know even if it's just in name's
00:39:30
sake this is the gonzalves family M has truly been a blessing in our lives I'm zanna's sister the families of Kaylee
00:39:39
Maddie Zanna and Ethan have all searched for ways sometimes together to cope with
00:39:47
a horrible New Normal we all are always going to be there for each other and it's just difficult we all we're all
00:39:54
going through it in our own ways for Ethan's parents Stacy and Jim chapen one way of coping involves creating a
00:40:04
foundation Ethan's smile Ethan just had a great smile he smiled all the time raising money for scholarships by
00:40:12
selling tul lips planted in honor of Ethan who had worked at a tulip farm so Ethan will live on through the
00:40:21
foundation that's what motivates us to to do this how do you live with this Jeff it's
00:40:28
not [Music] easy just got to keep going you know I think just like living our lives
00:40:37
like Zanna would want us to I know that she would want us to talk about the life
00:40:43
that she lived and to be her voice right now she had a beautiful smile her and Maddie the memories that we share we
00:40:55
don't do it lightly because they are very private memories and sometimes it feels like I'm giving away a part of
00:41:02
them but I do it for the importance to realize how great of a loss it is because nothing's going to bring them
00:41:11
back [Music] CBS next Saturday 48 Hours brings you back-to-back episodes all summer long
00:41:46
next week Beachside homicide How could a single mom be executed in Cape Cod I was
00:41:51
knocked unconscious I couldn't protect her 48 Hours Crime Time double feature next Saturday on CBS and streaming on
00:41:58
Paramount [Music] plus welcome to postmortem a new Companion podcast to 48 hours so I'm
00:42:17
your host CBS News correspondent an marie green and each week we will take you behind the scenes with
00:42:23
correspondents and producers who know these stories best we go deeper into each episode explaining how the
00:42:32
reporting came together and their personal experiences with investigating these crimes now not only do I report
00:42:39
for 48 hours but I am personally a huge fan of the show so I'm really excited to
00:42:45
take a closer look at these cases with the 48 Hours team to hear their stories including you know brand new details and
00:42:52
we're talking about details that never made it into the episodes we're to start though by answering some of your biggest
00:42:59
questions about the Idaho student murders this is a case that captivated and continues to Captivate the country
00:43:07
and joining me now is longtime 48 Hours correspondent Peter vanent and producer Liza Finley welcome guys so good to have
00:43:16
you guys here thanks amarie we're very happy to be here yeah this postmortem is is something we dream about because so
00:43:24
we have so much information particularly on this story that we can't get to in the limited time so this is a wonderful
00:43:30
opportunity to expand and and share with our our our viewers and listeners in this case uh some new details before we
00:43:38
get to our postmortem let's listen to an overview of this week's episode it's been a long and painful
00:43:46
Journey for the families of Kaylee gonzalves Madison Mogan Zanna kotal and Ethan chapen the four University of
00:43:54
Idaho students who were stabbed to death in the pre-dawn hours of November 13th 2022 do you ever dream of your
00:44:03
sister yeah I've had some dreams of her just gives me some peace knowing that I know she's okay zanak kotal
00:44:13
sister Jasmine and father Jeffrey are speaking out for the first time since Santa's
00:44:19
murder it just happened you know what do you do you can't do a damn thing everybody's going to work and you look
00:44:27
out the window and there's kids running down the street laughing and you're just
00:44:31
like how can you be out there playing my daughter's dead on the night of the murders christe and Steve Gonzalez's
00:44:38
daughter Kaylee was in the same bed as her childhood friend Maddie Mogan the gonzalves say coroner Kathy mbot told
00:44:46
them before a gag order the killer attacked Maddie first then moved on to Kaye there's evidence to show that she
00:44:54
awakened and tried to get out out of that situation the way the bed was set up is what she was trapped she was
00:45:02
trapped a judge has entered a plea of not guilty on Brian coburg's behalf the murders of college students
00:45:12
Ethan chapen Madison Mogan Zanna canot and Kaylee Gonzales shocked the country in November
00:45:20
of 20122 and really captured the attention of the country I think part of it had to do with
00:45:27
how that this is a time in your life that is supposed to be one of the best times in your life and every photo that
00:45:35
you saw of them was bursting with life so the idea that those lives were cut short I think really shook a lot of
00:45:49
people this is such a deeply personal story uh perhaps the most that I've ever been involved with I'm a father of six
00:45:57
six who've all gone to University I attended Washington State University 8 miles from where this murder scene was
00:46:05
located and when I went to school there the idea of crime might be a kid stealing a candy bar from a store it was
00:46:12
just simply unheard of so it's deeply personal and and to connect with with the family the gonzales's Christy and
00:46:19
Steve and to speak with Jasmine and Jeffrey kodal Jasmine is zanna's sister and Jeffrey her dad was the most
00:46:28
profound interviews I think I I have ever done and Liza was was in on this we were all so moved it was so emotional it
00:46:37
really was you know genuinely had tears in my eyes at times and as I watched this hour for the eighth time I still
00:46:45
get tears in my eyes because it's the sense of loss is profound and it is felt all over the world and you're right
00:46:52
anarie this time of Innocence the adventure of learning the Deep friendships formed at University and to
00:47:00
see it interrupted like this allegedly by a person they still don't have a motive for um just shocked everyone the
00:47:09
consolat they moved to the general area because they wanted a safe place to raise their kids yeah they it's talk
00:47:16
about ironic they lived in California it was getting kind of dangerous there they
00:47:21
felt they have five children so they went on a road trip and we were going to find America's best place to live the
00:47:28
safest place to raise our family and they settle on this beautiful beautiful little town in Idaho and lo and behold
00:47:37
just few hours away by car where where Kaylee went to school the worst crime imaginable happened and they regret
00:47:46
moving you know they go if only we hadn't moved there's also something else I wanted to mention at this point that
00:47:54
the gonzaleses shared with us that we weren't able to to to get into our broadcast their daughter Kaylee uh
00:48:00
gonzalves uh was a true crime fanatic she watched all these shows she loved watching 48
00:48:08
hours and she was she was concerned enough about crime that she would take notes her her mom said during the
00:48:17
broadcast and she came up with a plan of action hey if any of us are ever assaulted if we're ever in a crime
00:48:24
situation like we've seen on 48 hours in these other shows this is what we should
00:48:28
do she actually typed it out and the family had a nickname for her they called her the protector because of this
00:48:36
and I talked to Christy about it can you imagine the horror when then worst possible nightmare in this case it's not
00:48:46
a cliche is occurring her best friend in life Maddie killed alongside her and now
00:48:53
the as salent is attacking her you know what one the ironies though with which you were talking about her philosophy
00:49:01
after being such a true crime show fanatic was separate I'll go you right you go left
00:49:09
so one of us will survive and be able to call the police and come to your rescue
00:49:15
well those two young women were killed in the same bed they didn't have a chance to
00:49:22
separate she was trapped Kaylie was trapped there's so many components of this that sort of give you
00:49:29
chills um you focus on the families which cannot be easy I can't imagine it was easy to get them to talk we have a
00:49:39
uh a a great um colleague out in California named Greg fiser who had uh established a relationship with the
00:49:47
family when we did our first hour uh earlier in in 2023 I did a a zoom interview with Steve
00:49:55
Gonzales and felt as though we had really connected you know they said okay you've got five minutes cuz he was going
00:50:01
from reporter to reporter and we really connected we talked for 25 minutes and and when that story ran uh
00:50:11
we understood that the family appreciated how respectful we were there was no sensationalism this is 48 Hours
00:50:17
this is CBS News and that connection continued and so Greg fiser was talking with with the family out there and said
00:50:25
Peter would really like to sit down and have a longer conversation with you and because and Liza is really strong on on
00:50:33
this they believe that transparency in getting these words out is important for them to find Justice they agreed to the
00:50:40
interview there's a gag order and that was issued by the judge and it basically uh prohibits attorneys law enforcement
00:50:50
officials from speaking so Steve feels very strongly that that is not in the best best interest of Justice because
00:50:58
there have been so many rumors so much false information out there that he believes that real journalists real
00:51:07
officials should be dispelling these these false falsities so he he agreed to this very
00:51:15
long interview six seven hours yeah I heard Peter is legendary for his long interview he is famous for that in our
00:51:23
shop we're going to go two more hours on this um it was great it was they were extraordinary and once you know people
00:51:32
families everyone has to remember this families that have gone through this this kind of shocking trauma they don't
00:51:40
interview one another right that's not the way we talk all of us have lost someone in our families when that's
00:51:46
happened in my case I don't interview my sisters about how you're feeling in things and so sometimes when when a
00:51:53
person like myself comes into the picture it's such a catharsis for them there's so much they want to say what I
00:52:01
valued about it is their willingness to pull us into this moment in their life which is the most painful moment that
00:52:10
they will ever experience and it's going it's going it's not a moment it's their
00:52:13
life now um but we often you know sometimes when we tell these stories and 48 hours is an excellent job at being
00:52:20
compassionate and fair but it is an hour and a whole case and we don't sort of get a chance to slow slow down and be
00:52:29
reminded of the human victims that are still alive zanna's sister Jasmine has never spoken before um her father
00:52:39
Jeffrey never spoken before um and in this case you you didn't prein them you didn't get a chance to talk to them
00:52:45
ahead of time no not not at all not with the gun solices either but you know I prefer I prefer that I prefer that we
00:52:53
get to know each other in the course of this interview you always begin very Gent
00:52:57
you talk about the the the sister that she loved the daughter that he loved and you work your way into the details and I
00:53:03
find when we both are trying to sort each other out if you can make that connection it becomes a a profound thing
00:53:12
and they really open up Jasmine kodal Oh sanna's Sister amazing she's just it gets me talking to right now about it
00:53:21
she's the power of the grief inside her to be able to express some of that and Jeffrey in in the which you saw in the
00:53:30
in the hour and and you'll see him in other uh interviews in the future too he physically reacts sometimes his body
00:53:38
movement is even more powerful than his words when I you know when you talk about you know when they heard the words
00:53:46
from police that their their his daughter her sister that she was dead oh my God how it hits him and that was such
00:53:56
genuine so genuine um when I was getting ready to watch the hour I was sort of preparing myself for grief I thought I
00:54:06
will be so saddened by this but instead I found myself impressed with their strength
00:54:15
their power there was sort of a weight to that grief it does that make any sense absolutely
00:54:23
absolutely it becomes you know for for for those of us who work on these stories uh we do so many of them and
00:54:30
they're all so horrendous and there are those moments where you're sitting across from somebody or looking at them
00:54:37
in the edit room and you go how real this is and that was so real these these families you know it's a it's it's
00:54:48
heartbreaking the Galis is you know is as loving a family as you will ever meet and right away they they started digging
00:54:58
in and as Steve has said we were not going to sit back and just wait for justice and when you realize what his
00:55:05
daughter Olivia accomplished in her deep dive which we'll get into but they they
00:55:10
moved ahead instantly they channeled that grief into action so let's talk about a little bit the incredible amount
00:55:17
of investigating that the families did especially uh Kay's sister Olivia uh she found the ride chair driver who dropped
00:55:24
Kaylee off at the home that at night something that she says even law enforcement had not discovered I want to
00:55:31
play a little sound Olivia got into her sister's call log and frantically started cold calling recent numbers she
00:55:39
says a friend told her that Kaylee had been at the corner Club bar around 1:07 a.m. and later texted a ride share
00:55:47
driver who Olivia managed to track down the r chair driver said around 1:45 Kaye had texted him requesting a
00:55:56
ride from the grub truck which is the local mac and cheese food truck to take her back home to 1122 King and she had
00:56:05
with her another female Olivia then uncovered one of the most important leads in the case the ride share driver
00:56:14
told her about a camera mounted on the grub truck so I was able to look it up and um find Kaye on the video and I saw
00:56:23
the girl that she was with was Maddie so at that point I knew Kaye and Maddie were together they got into the car to
00:56:30
go home together and alone the driver told her the exact time Kaye and Maddie were dropped off at their house on King
00:56:38
Road 1:56 a.m. a timeline she says she confirmed before the police I immediately took it to the police
00:56:48
officers here's her phone information here's the ride share driver's name you know what's interesting about that right
00:56:58
there is that a the police had the wrong time when they returned home they by 11
00:57:05
minutes so she was able to put that timeline on track which which is sort of you know a domino effect yeah they get
00:57:14
the right time they get home they get this they get that they get that and she was able to correct that right off the
00:57:20
bat which got them mobilized and moving in the right direction there is still so
00:57:24
much to get into here so when we get back we're going to talk about Brian cober's trial what the defense might say
00:57:30
to poke holes in the case new evidence the prosecution might present and a possible link yeah a link between cobber
00:57:38
and the victims that the gonzaleses think that they've discovered on Instagram stick
00:57:44
[Music] around all right welcome back everyone the trial of Brian koberger had been set
00:57:59
for October 2nd of 2023 but it was postponed because he waved his right to a speedy trial so the
00:58:06
question is what do we think we can expect once this kicks off Liza as we know there's a dir of information
00:58:13
because of this gag order but the defense has hinted at what its case will be in a court filing they have come out
00:58:20
and saying essentially what they're going to challenge and in the prosecution's case they're going to
00:58:26
challenge one the collection of the DNA there were uh three male other DNA samples found at the scene two inside
00:58:38
the house one in glove outside they still don't know who those belong to and the defense wants to know why they say
00:58:45
there's no connection none at all between coburger and any of the four victims in that house and if there's no
00:58:53
connection there's no motive why would he have done something like this and then to me one of the most
00:59:00
intriguing ones if it's true we don't know any of this because we don't it hasn't been litigated in in in ch and
00:59:07
hasn't been argued in in court they claim that there's absolutely now mind you this is one of the bloodiest crime
00:59:16
scenes ever I mean four people slaughtered with a a military St we saw the blood on outside of the house and
00:59:25
it's I know you probably went back and forth as to whether or not you should show that but I think it really sort of
00:59:30
gave you an idea of of what went on in yeah and the family told us they want the world to know the and this is the
00:59:37
word they use the ferocity of these murders it's important uh the savagery that went went into this right and as
00:59:45
Peter said that house was literally bleeding if the house could talk what would it say that's a wonderful question
00:59:52
but so back to this intriguing uh statement that the defense has put out there they say there's this bloody crime
01:00:01
scene we know how easily it is to get a hair or a speck of blood they say there's absolutely no DNA evidence of
01:00:09
anyone from that house or that house in his apartment in his car on his person and if that's true that is pretty
01:00:18
intriguing so let's talk about a receipt from Walmart and a Dicky's tag that was
01:00:24
found at his apartment though we don't know what items were listed on the receipt what does the Galas family think
01:00:31
this discovery really means the family has a has a u a theory they believe that that he brought what what they call a
01:00:39
kill kit that he had a bag that had a change of clothes what they're calling it what they're calling it and they said
01:00:45
that um and we did do not have this in did not have time for this in the hour but that during the the course of the
01:00:52
search warrant that was done at C Berger's house they have a receipt and that the receipt according to the
01:00:59
gonzalves family is in evidence right now and it may suggest that he bought a clothing that perhaps that he wore
01:01:07
during the course of this murder is what they're suggesting and that that clothing was not found at his apartment
01:01:14
after when when the search was done um but even so as Liza said because we have done so many of these stories the notion
01:01:24
you know when you're using a knife for for instance and there's called castaway blood you know as you raise it up and
01:01:30
then back down the Hair Skin blood the notion that nothing at all was found in that car nothing at all is is really
01:01:41
quite extraordinary and they will the defense is going to be playing that up and remember they say about his Alibi
01:01:48
for that night Brian cerg yeah he admits he was out driving late that night he was driving around that's what he says m
01:01:55
M that would explain the the cell phone in the vicinity and also seeing that car
01:02:02
on the you know surveillance cameras and among the things of course they're going
01:02:06
to talk about in in the prosecution of this case was the 12 visits prior to the murders in that neighborhood but also
01:02:14
there was a 13th visit the day of the murder once it became publicized because this occurred you know in the early
01:02:20
early morning hours well later that day prosecutors say that cobber to the affidavit his car was in that
01:02:28
area again but remember he's studying criminology and I'm sure he their people would argue yes he was fascinated by
01:02:35
this horrible crime and as a criminologist uh he he drove over as many people did into that area to see
01:02:43
what was going on but then there's always the theory that the criminal returns to the scene of the crime
01:02:49
because they want to see what's going on and they want to sort of get the last laugh haha I got away with this look at
01:02:56
everybody running around look at everybody right yeah well one theory that is out there that the Gonzales
01:03:01
family has come to believe is the notion that Brian coburger may have been inside
01:03:08
that house prior to the day of the murders and they base that on the fact that the coroner in the case told them
01:03:17
that the as salent entered the house and the first people that were attacked were
01:03:22
on the third floor of the house there were others on on the second floor and that suggested to the gonalves that the
01:03:30
killer knew to go to the third floor how would he know that if he hadn't been in
01:03:35
the house before so this is the fam's filling in the blanks though this is information trying to explain it right
01:03:44
that is what that we have not had any investigator tell us this of course there's this gag order and we have not
01:03:49
been able to verify that with any investigator because of the gag order but the gonzales's
01:03:56
uh mom and dad christe and Steve believe that he may have been in that house prior to the murders when you really
01:04:06
think about this whole thing how does this person in this house that has three floors know where to go and how to do it
01:04:14
and kill so so rapidly as one of our people said he's a student he's not an assassin right but it seemed like he was
01:04:21
so efficient which is I think one of the reasons why the the cons solices believe
01:04:27
he had to know where he was going when he got in there he had to know who he was after and what he planned to Doh now
01:04:34
Christie galz says she thinks he went in to kill one but he killed four so that he was caught off guard by
01:04:45
the fact that there were two people in the first bedroom exactly and there was also the bit about Kay's dog right uh
01:04:51
Kaylee slept with that dog every night uh and uh that was just that was their routine and when officials uh got to the
01:04:59
house uh discovered the uh that horrible scene the dog was in a separate bedroom
01:05:06
by itself and so that was just that just raised questions with the gonzales's that um did he know there was a dog had
01:05:16
he seen a dog in a visit had he actually even maybe given the dog a treat where it wouldn't bark at him and did he put
01:05:26
the dog in that room it's just something that the gonzaleses uh have focused on and raised
01:05:33
with us so we've been talking a lot about the different theories about how coburger may have committed these
01:05:38
murders but what is also new in this hour is the Gonzales has discovered what they think is a possible connection
01:05:46
between him and the victims so the the the the gonalves family heard the name Brian coburger Olivia Googles his name
01:05:57
and they end up finding this Instagram account that the family uh believes was a genuine one I want to play a little
01:06:04
sound from the hour about the connection that the family feels might be there you
01:06:10
would go to Maddie's Instagram account and look at her pictures and he liked them Brian's name was under a lot of
01:06:18
Maddie's pictures like that picture and that picture and that picture and that picture so he was
01:06:23
actively looking at the Instagram accounts and the importance of that is what just digital evidence that this
01:06:30
particular account had some type of connection with the with the victims and if that's true that's huge because what
01:06:37
it does is it establishes a relationship a connection between coburger and the victims at least two of the victims yeah
01:06:47
and the defense is saying there's no connection so which is true that will be a very important point to be made at
01:06:56
trial as as been said by one of our experts in the hour if there's no connection there's no motive everyone
01:07:02
who watches 48 Hours who's listening to this right now knows you don't have to have a motive prosecutors will tell you
01:07:07
all the time you don't have to and serial killers you know Ted Bundy didn't have to have a motive for each of his
01:07:14
killings he just had a satisfaction in in killing someone and the gonzalves has believe that that uh cerer who again is
01:07:23
accused of this not convicted of anything thing as as yet of course that he did this in their opinion simply to
01:07:31
kill to murder to experience that rush they do it for pleasure that's one one of the theories by our
01:07:40
criminologist expert who said that a crime like this seems to be done by somebody the viciousness of it uh by
01:07:50
somebody who takes pleasure in it um or has a sense of arousal from it mhm did you reach out to the coburger family yes
01:07:57
we've done that many times and um we're still hoping that they will change their
01:08:03
mind and and talk about Brian um and we hope that happens what I'm hearing uh is
01:08:11
that the coburger family does not believe he did it but there there is something very very interesting that
01:08:17
Steve cons Sol this uh was very clear about that he's going into this trial with an open mind that he
01:08:26
he thinks they think that it looks like coburger did it however maybe he didn't and they have H an open mind about that
01:08:37
well Steve has an open mind about that I was surprised by that because that is typically not something that you hear um
01:08:45
after someone's been arrested usually families of the victims are convinced usually that you know that's the right
01:08:53
guy yeah yeah and uh he has an open mind and we as journalists also have to have
01:09:00
an open mind yeah uh because the the facts of the case are being held so tightly so closely there's a lot we
01:09:08
don't know and we have to remember that and uh that's that was another challenge
01:09:14
in doing this hour I think right Peter yeah and uh absolutely and cob Berger has said through an attorney when he was
01:09:20
arrested in Pennsylvania he looks forward to his exoneration there were others though that you reached out to
01:09:26
that also didn't want to talk uh Maddie mogan's family her parents they did not speak to you for this episode mattye
01:09:34
Mogan um Maddie was a only child of of of her parents and the they have spoken of course at these Memorial uh get
01:09:45
togethers and things but it is so devastating and you look at her face you look at Maddie's face and you see this
01:09:53
this bright and she's intelligent this big-hearted woman with everything in front of her uh and they invested
01:10:01
everything and all their love and wisdom in this one child and that child is taken from them under these
01:10:09
circumstances um we understand Ethan Chapin's family um who obviously are suffering enormous loss they have chosen
01:10:19
to to not do an interview with uh 48 hours for this perhaps one day you know the want to talk but we completely
01:10:27
understand uh that they don't want to and and of course we respect that well what a moving episode for the
01:10:36
first one of this season of 48 hours and for the first postmortem podcast I really want to thank you Peter and lies
01:10:43
up for being here thank you andar it's our honor to tell this story it's so profound absolutely it is it's touched
01:10:51
all of us thank you em be sure to join us next Tuesday day for another postmortem watch 48 hours Saturdays 109
01:10:59
Central on CBS and also streaming on Paramount plus and be sure to follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcast you
01:11:07
can also listen ad free on the Amazon music or wonder app [Music]