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this episode contains graphic audio and references to Family Violence please listen with
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care I just I can't believe this is happening dad well honey we don't know what's happening
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okay in the early evening hours of July 14th 2017 Steve haran is trying to comfort
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his oldest daughter Megan this is not real I am just praying to God this is a sick joke like the sickest
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joke ever they've received terrifying news gunshots have been fired at the house Megan shares with her mother
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Pamela haran in mlan Virginia no one yet knows what has happened inside I just need to see them Dad please first of all
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and now to make matters worse no one can reach her mom or Megan's youngest sister
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Helen this is I just want to hear their voices I just like I I know Steve and Pamela
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haran divorced years ago everyone is meeting up at his house while they wait for
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news Ashley the middle sister is racing there from her home in Pennsylvania Ashley and I have been calling my mom
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and the house and Helen okay no one's answering the tap you're hearing was recorded by detective John vicory who
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arrived at Steve haran's house I'm going to record this cuz there's a lot going on the detective is staying with the
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family and updating them I'm going to get information from you and as things start coming in I'll be able to tell you
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a little bit more Megan explains that she had moved in with her mother a few years back with her 8-year-old Daughter
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Molly Pamela was helping raise her granddaughter they go to the nail salon together she does all the gardening with
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my Mom they're best friends Megan's youngest sister Helen who is 24 had just moved back in too she recently graduated
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from Southern Methodist University with degrees in math and management science here's Megan again she was actually in
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the regular Masters program at in Dallas before she moved okay and then she quit
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it detective vicory asked to speak to Steve alone I wanted to get a little bit more information from your dad if I
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could do that in private um detective vicory Whispers to Steve hoping that his daughters don't hear him he says I don't
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have good news I don't have good news the detective says and keeps speaking under his breath trying to convince
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Steve that he's probably the strongest one to tell the rest of the family what happened about my
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daughter they were Bor both found shot to death I'm really sorry Steve absorbs the
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information thank you for um thank you for letting me be the one ofs he waits until both his daughters
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are together before he shares the devastating news 20 minutes later Ashley arrives and she's distraught this has
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been the longest ride of my life I just want to hear my mom and my sister's voice I want to see them I want to make
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sure they're okay Steve decides this is the moment to tell them what he knows I'm sorry to tell you girls oh my
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God your mom what happened what is happening then Detective vicory his voice and shares some of the
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gruesome details someone matching description your mother was found deceased on the
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main level she did have a gunshot and and when officers come upstairs they located your sister in the
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bathroom the rifle was St he's saying the rifle was in the bathroom with Helen what could that mean
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oh God what are we going to do Jesus what are we going to do I don't know I need to I really need to see them
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they took him to the medical examiner there's an investigation going on honey who would want to kill their
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mother and their little sister before this tragedy the haran women seemed to have it all from the
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outside looking in we were blessed my mom was amazing they were close and had everything to look forward to but as
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detectives would soon learn there was a lot going on inside the haran household in my 25 years reporting
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stories like this the haran case is one of the few that sounds like something made up by a Hollywood screenwriter a
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story of betrayal you would struggle to believe if it wasn't true I'm Peter vanat from 48 hours this
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is blood is thicker the haran family killings my sister was not my sister for many mon episode 1 home from
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[Music] Texas there were several aspects of this case that were extreme extremely unique
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that I have not seen before earlier in the afternoon detective Brian berson gets a call to head to Pamela haran's
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house there were two bodies in a house in mlan and I was to respond to Dean drive now on your way there what have
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you been told about what's inside that house very little we know that when we get up there that Patrol has been in the
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house that they had to force entry through the front door so the house was locked and that inside the house there
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were the bodies of two women he drives to Pamela haran's neighborhood unsure of what he's about to encounter where this
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took place was an affluent section of mlan Virginia it's the kind of place where political power players have large
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homes and a yard without too long of a commute to DC presidents Senators CIA agents have
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all called mlan home The Harens live on a Treeline Street their home is a nearly
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5,000 ft Colonial with a covered porch and six bedrooms it's a million dooll home detective byon and Julia Elliot a
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crime scene detective and forensics expert arrive at the house it certainly didn't look like some place where two
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homicides potentially had occurred they enter through the front door into a foyer there's a wooden staircase with
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carpeted steps up to the second floor and a hallway with panel molding and black photo frames lining the cream
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colored wall it seems idilic it was Immaculate I've never seen a more organized home in my life as detectives
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they're trained to notice the details every chair is perfectly spaced along their long dining room table each throw
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pillow has its own place on the couch nothing looks aess until they get to the back half of the house here here's
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detective byerson again as you walk through the kitchen you encounter a mudroom that connects the kitchen to the
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garage uh so in that mud room we discover Pam uh Pamela Hansen haran she is laying on the floor of the mudro
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Pamela haran has been shot twice in the head the top half of her body is wrapped
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in a quilt with her legs sticking out and her head is covered and she has a dog bed uh laying on her head covering
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her a dog bed on her head what do you mean like a small dog bed that you would see in your house that maybe your dog
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would lay in was actually covering a portion of her head detectives then make their way upstairs if you come up that
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staircase into the long hallway and make your second left that would be into Helen's bedroom and once you get into
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Helen's bedroom is her bathroom and that's where her body was found she's leaning back and her head is
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laid back into the bathtub so she's sort of laying on both the toilet seat and the bathtub and then her legs are
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pointed straight out towards the door as you walk in this is Helen her 24-year-old daughter yes there was a
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rifle that was sort of laying between her legs Patrol when they arrived finding two deceased persons one with a gun on
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their body assumed or thought that there might have been a murder suicide detectives though aren't so sure I mean
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a lot of these cases are like huge jigsaw puzzles that you can never fully put together what did you learn about
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the dynamic within this family were they a close group I know that Megan and Helen for instance were about 10 years
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apart in age it seemed like they were all relatively close Pamela had worked hard to establish herself in a community
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of overachievers she' been divorced for several years she was very successful on
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her own she got her start at 17 and worked her way up to the Executive Suite holding big jobs at companies like loed
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Martin and more recently a tech firm Pamela saw herself as a provider she loved her daughters she had a
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granddaughter that she absolutely adored people thought Helen the youngest took after her mom she was smart talented and
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ambitious what's Your Gut telling you as you as you take a look look at these two
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bodies wait wait and do the job the clues investigators found they'd mle over for
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years we have two bodies two different rooms but it's one house some puzzles are hard to solve others are hard to
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prove Detective Elliot has worked in the crime scene department for about a decade I'm looking for anything that may
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have been left behind by the person that did the crime such as blood fingerprints trace DNA
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like hairs or fibers Detective Elliot notices how Pamela's body was positioned I believe where she was shot physically
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on her body and how she was laying in the mud room I believe someone came up either to her side or from the back and
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shot her then there's the odd fact that her face is partially covered generally that's done in cases that I've worked
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because someone known to the victim uh may be the suspect in these cases and they're either ashamed or they can't
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look at what they've done so they choose to cover the bodies so sometimes it's someone very close to the deceased has
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done this that can be a clue to maybe where we should be going or what we should be looking at and then there was
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Pamela's cell phone that phone was sitting on top of the quilt that was covering her and it was also sitting on
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top of a pool of blood that seems very strange doesn't it it is strange strange we know that it means that that phone
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was placed there sometime after she died well I want to know what fingerprints are on that cell phone if
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anything at all and I want to find out who put that cell phone there in that particular place so you want to check
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for fingerprints and DNA yes what do you find on this phone nothing nothing detective Elliott isn't sure if that
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meant the phone had been wiped clean not everything holds fingerprints very well
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but p couldn't have put her own cell phone on top of her body it seemed to suggest the killer had placed the phone
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on her but could it have been Helen Megan would later tell police their little sister had been in crisis I love
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Helen but something has really changed in her over the last few months and my mom was
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concerned as the family would later tell detectives Pamela seemed willing to spend on whatever her daughters needed
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cars houses and even office furniture Ashley just called her last week and said she needed file
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cabinets and my mom ordered file cabinet here Megan was on the phone with Detective byerson they're supposed to be
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delivered this week I mean anything we needed she gave it to us the girls were little when their parents divorced and
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Pamela had raised her daughters on her own we always made the joke that that's why they got divorced cuz my dad
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couldn't handle you know four women at the same time and even when Pamela's children became adults they still relied
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on her Megan for one was 34 and had been living with her mother for years even though she was married her husband
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served in the military my husband deploys often so I've always stayed with my mom at the time of the shootings
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Megan wasn't working where are you working now um I'm I'm not right now I have to
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um I'm an event planner okay but I have to finish my C clients up here and I'm moving everything out to Morgan Town
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okay Megan told the police that she and her husband were buying a new house in West Virginia and were about to finally
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move in together while there was love in the haran household the daughters also said there was arguing they'd air their
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Grievances and move on if family just that's how it is Ashley agreed she told detective byerson as much my mom and dad
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had a horrible divorce okay coming from a family females we fought a lot okay argued a lot okay it's just how it was
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mhm what may seem really bad to other people was normal to us like we would have our screaming matches 5 minutes
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later we were fine but according to Megan her little sister Helen had been Furious lately then Megan
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revealed that the morning of the shootings Helen and their mom had been arguing yet again Helen has been so
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angry like just so angry all the time over everything it's unclear when Ashley and
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Megan put two and two together but at some point they started contemplating the maob possibility that Helen might
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have killed their mother and then herself detective vicory told their dad her wound appeared
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self-inflicted but all Megan and Ashley had been told was that the rifle was found in the bathroom with Helen they
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tried putting pieces of this part of the puzzle together why Helen might have done something like this you can hear
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Megan's daughter playing in the other room where the [ __ ] is heing I'm so angry right now
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and told her about the house this morning she told her told her what she was breaking the contract with the Aldi
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house according to Megan their mother had been planning to buy Helen a house in Aldi a small town in Virginia but
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then the morning of the shootings Pamela told Helen she decided against it Megan
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suggested that it might have had something to do with Helen's new boyfriend an older man she'd been dating
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in Texas someone her mother did not approve of his name was Carlos Gutierrez Helen had unexpectedly dropped
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out of graduate school and Pamela thought her boyfriend was a bad influence Megan said her mother didn't
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want Helen's boyfriend to move into any house she was going to buy Pamela seemed willing to go above and
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beyond for her girls but that morning she had apparently gone back on her promise to
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one of them because she truly believed that Helen was going to try to move Carlos into the house and
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my mom didn't want him being there and now both sisters seem to be suggesting that maybe Helen frustrated by her
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mother somehow broke turning to violence to settle a score and end her own life she was so excited about this house
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that my mom was getting for her so your mom was buying her a house mhm in the days after
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the shootings Ashley spoke with Detective Brian byerson he'd been assigned the lead on this case and
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you'll recall he'd searched her mother's house why was your mom buying her house that's what my mom mom
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did had she done it for everybody not for me my mom offered to buy my house and my husband and I said now Ashley
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said her mom did buy her a Jeep but that she didn't want to live in a house that
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was owned by her mother my husband and I talked about it and I said I don't want
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to do that mhm I want to try to even though we live paycheck to paycheck I want to try to do this on her own but
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Helen had accept CED her mother's offer of help Ashley thought the offer for Helen's house in Virginia came with
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strings attached but you need to get a job you need to continue to get your master's degree yada yada yada Ashley
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also said the family was worried about Helen's well-being that maybe she was using drugs she says she's concerned
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about Helen maybe using some other type of narcotic or whatever did and what did
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you what how did that conversation end with my mom and I yeah she said that she wanted to take all of us to the Outer
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Banks for two weeks and she wanted all of us to be together she told him that Helen had a history of depression and
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thoughts of self harm when was the last time that Helen had ever talked about hurting
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herself with me it was probably last year I want to say Ashley described a call she got from her
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sister while Helen was still attending University in Dallas about a year before the shooting Helen gave me a call and
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she was clearly drunk and she said I just don't want to do it anymore and I said what do you mean knowing full well
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immediately what she meant by that and she's like Ashley I'm just sick of it all and I said Helen I'm right here
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there's no reason for you to say that I'm like I will fly out to Dallas right now if you need too the detective asked
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if Helen gave her any reasons she was just sad she's like I have no friends she was just sick of everything and
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nothing going right again when you have depression no matter what you have in life especially you know cars and house
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it doesn't mean [ __ ] to you you're just sad I said you have all your dogs to look after they love you I said I love
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you Ashley said she kept calling to check in on Helen every 10 minutes until her sister sobered up I was the only one
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who was able to calm her down and that's why it's killing me she did not call me
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on Friday I would have been able to calm her down Ashley was racing through all the what FS all the things that might
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have happened differently that day if she'd been able to speak to Helen to calm her down to stop her before she did
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anything rash detective byerson asked if Helen had ever attempted suicide I think when
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she was a teenager she tried to take pills was it reported I don't think so now how do you know about
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[Music] that she had told she had said mention something like that because I have been
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talking about it cuz I try to commit suicide by taking a bottle of pills when I was about
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15 both Helen and Ashley had thoughts of ending their lives when they were teenagers but Ashley was now 32 and
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beside herself every single emotion right now hearing about this finding out about this from Helen's
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piece of [ __ ] boyfriend it turns out Carlos had been the one to call Ashley and Teller shots had been fired at her
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mother's house again and again the sisters blamed Helen spiral on the boyfriend they'd never met the family
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seemed to accept that Helen's depression could have pushed her over the edge the day of the shooting local
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reporters set up to go live not far from the caution tape news in Fairfax County
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Police broke down the door of a home there and found two women dead this happened on Dean drive that is not too
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far from mlan high school reporters asked the police if they thought a killer could still be on the loose we
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asked police a short time ago is there a danger to this community is there a suspect that is still at large out there
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the answer to that question a resounding no the working Theory here is a murder followed by a suicide in Fairfax
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tonight the Fairfax County Police told the family and the community that initially this looked like a murder
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suicide we're learning more tonight about the mom and daughter found dead inside a mlan Virginia home on Friday
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police say Helen haran shot her mom Pamela haran before turning the gun on herself but those were first responding
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officers at the scene not detective berson it's unfortunate it certainly didn't come from the investigators who
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were actually doing the work on the ground right from the start they had a major clue that something very different
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had happened to Pamela and Helen haran that's because Helen's boyfriend Carlos who was more than a thousand miles away
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had been talking to her on the phone right before she died it turned turned out not everything the police had been
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told about Carlos was true he had been trying to get his girlfriend help for hours trying to save her in fact Fairfax
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County Police on fire how may I assist you yes have an emergency my girlfriend lives in mcen her sister is acting
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really weird coming up on blood is thicker this particular case there were things about the scene itself that were
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were concerning to us on day [Music] one if you are in crisis and need to talk to someone call The Suicide Hotline
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at 1 1800 2738255 or you can simply dial three digits 988 to talk to a trained counselor from 48 hours
00:24:29
this is blood is thicker the haran family killings Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48
00:24:37
Hours original reporting by 48 Hours producers Sarah elely Michelle sigona Lauren white and Josh
00:24:46
joerger Jamie Benson is the senior producer for Paramount audio and Mara walls is the senior story
00:24:54
editor recording assistants from Alan Pang and Marlin polycarp special thanks to Paramount
00:25:02
podcast vice president Megan Marcus and 48 Hours senior producer Peter schwitzer blood is thicker is produced
00:25:11
by Sony Music Entertainment it was written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are
00:25:20
Katherine St Louis and Jonathan Hirsch our associate producer is Zoe kulen theme and original music composed
00:25:30
by hansdale shei he also soundd designed and mixed the episodes we also use music
00:25:37
by Blue Dot sessions Katherine Newan is our fact Checker our production managers
00:25:43
are tamaa balance kassi and Samantha Allison I'm Peter vanand if you're enjoying the show be sure to rate and
00:25:52
review it helps more people find it and hear our reporting you can listen into blood is thicker the haran family
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killings early and add free right now by joining wry Plus in the wry app or on Apple podcasts thanks for
00:26:11
[Music] listening this episode contains graphic audio and references to Family Violence
00:26:24
please listen with care Fairfax Canon police in fire how may I assist you yes have an
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emergency more than a thousand miles from where he believes a crime is unfolding Carlos Gutierrez is
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desperately trying to save his girlfriend's life this was back in the summer of 2017 hello are you there yes I'm here
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these calls are from emergency services in Northern Virginia that's where the love of his life Helen haran lives
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I'm thinking my girlfriend's life is in danger his girlfriend's life is in danger but Carlos feels like the 911
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operator isn't taking him seriously why aren't they responding with concern okay sir what I need you to
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do then is contact your local jurisdiction file a report with them and tell them that Fairfax County requires a
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teletype in order to do a welfare check okay I think this is like life or death like I some like me dead Carlos is
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trying to make sure the operator understands the seriousness of the situation but instead of quickly
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dispatching police the 911 operator tells him to call someone else contact your local jurisdiction file the report
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have them send us a teletype and then we will go and check on her okay how do I get a hold of my jurisdiction how I do
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that I well sir you if you don't have their non-emergency number if you dial 9911 you'll get your e Mercy
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Center okay thank you uhhuh bye-bye I would play this 911 call for detective Brian byerson of the Fairfax
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County Police he told me this first operator no longer works at the call center yeah this one is uh
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incontrovertibly horrible we do not require a teletype number to report a possible homicide it's that's completely
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ridiculous Carlos would call speak to an operator and then be told he needed to call someone else again and again listen
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closely because this 911 tape is not exactly easy to understand is your girlfriend at home right
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now well that's the thing she won't answer her phone according to Carlos hours earlier Helen had called him to
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say her mom might be dead and then she stopped answering her phone she hadn't called 911 Carlos didn't hear from her
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and now he was worried Helen was in danger in a Race Against Time Carlos keeps calling the police we're going to
00:29:11
need you to call your local police department and oh my God they still not there I'm sorry you're still not there
00:29:20
how are we supposed to get there well you didn't give us an address y'all can't look up the name Pam hard and MIM
00:29:26
and we looked up the name Sam haran and mlan we don't list individuals by name we don't record information that way
00:29:35
okay I'm sorry I'm just having a hard time I'm sorry finally more than an hour after his first 911 call police tell
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Carlos that they're sending officers to Helen's home detective Brian byerson didn't find
00:29:51
out about Carlos's calls to 911 until after he walked through the haran house and saw the two two bodies for himself
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ultimately what Carlos had to say would blow a hole in the theory that this was a murder suicide and that meant a killer
00:30:08
could still be on the loose if true you have a brutal vicious killer in this community who could kill again that is
00:30:22
correct I'm Peter vanent from 48 hours this is blood is thicker the haran family killings episode two the
00:30:35
[Music] boyfriend Carlos Gutierrez is on the phone with a 911 supervisor out of Fairfax County Virginia okay Mr gues yes
00:30:49
yes okay so she asks him more about his relationship with Helen haran how long have you known your girlfriend for about
00:30:57
a year Carlos and Helen had been dating for a year they first met in Dallas they were working at a local
00:31:05
restaurant together and there were Sparks they hid it off this is Michelle sigona she's a producer for 48 hours and
00:31:15
has spent years following the case there are cases we will spend months years on
00:31:23
and then they will Air this is one of those that we spent an incredible amount of time prior two it aing Carlos was in
00:31:30
his early 30s when he met Helen she was 23 he said that you know although maybe he wasn't technically formally living
00:31:40
with her per se in Texas he was at her house 247 so they were living together essentially Helen was attending Southern
00:31:48
Methodist University and said on her resume that her goal was to work for a defense contractor just as her mom
00:31:55
Pamela had once done a according to Carlos they fell in love and were inseparable it seemed like Carlos was
00:32:04
planning to include Helen in his long-term future the couple were planning to leave Dallas and build a new
00:32:10
life together in Northern Virginia he was so dedicated to Helen that Carlos was ready to leave his life in Texas and
00:32:19
move to Virginia as Carlos calls 911 the day of the tragedy he tells the story of the
00:32:26
life they had planned look we got a house that's getting built he even mentions the house in Aldi
00:32:32
Virginia that Helen's mother was buying he said they were serious committed according to Carlos he had big
00:32:41
plans for their future he was planning to propose to her at some point after Helen made the move back East the couple
00:32:49
video chatted texted and called every day he said the night before the shootings they missed each other so much
00:32:58
that they spent nearly 4 hours talking on the phone it's a long time to talk to anyone 10 days before Pamela and Helen's
00:33:06
deaths Carlos went to see Helen in Virginia so according to court testimony Carlos said he came to the area he did
00:33:13
not stay at Pam's house that he and Helen stayed at a hotel nearby Carlos said he had no idea that Helen's family
00:33:23
had any animosity toward him until after the shootings but there were signs none
00:33:30
of Helen's family came out to meet him when he and Helen stopped by the house for blankets for a Fourth of July outing
00:33:38
the blankets were put outside but Carlos said he didn't think anything about it Helen's oldest sister Megan would bring
00:33:44
this up to police they were in the driveway when she came to get blankets for 4th of July and she said Megan wait
00:33:51
they're in the driveway she's saying her mom told her not to go out and meet him
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Pamela had bought Helen a house but was now having second thoughts because Carlos might move in with her daughter
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here's Megan in a police recording taken hours after the shooting this morning my mom let Helen know that she
00:34:16
was canceling the contract on the house she's billing her because she truly believed that Helen was going
00:34:24
to try to move Carlos into the house and my mom didn't want him being there after that she said Helen was Furious
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her mother had changed her mind but also said her kid's sister was even mad at her why Megan said she and her husband
00:34:40
closed on a house of their own in West Virginia so while Helen's dream was taken away Megan was still getting hers
00:34:48
she got mad at me and thought the house was my fa and you know Mom was like has nothing to do with her you know why
00:34:55
Helen I can't trust you and I'm not letting that carless move into that house Megan said that she was
00:35:02
leaving to drive to West Virginia that morning before she left she said the door to her mom's home office was closed
00:35:11
when I was leaving like I said I saw her office door Clos and that usually means
00:35:15
she's on the phone so I just left it be she remembered how Helen was out on the front porch very upset I think it was
00:35:23
this afternoon when I was leaving the house and she was crying and I went out to the porch and they said who you have
00:35:30
the phone with and she was like Carlos and I like oh are you okay and she's like and I said and I said
00:35:39
um are you is everything okay she was crying police had been given two versions of that deadly mour one where
00:35:48
Helen was scared for her life and another where she was the likely killer but which one did the evidence
00:35:56
support [Music] this particular case there were things about the scene itself that were
00:36:10
concerning to us on day one detectives Brian byerson and Julia Elliott a forensics expert looked over the two
00:36:18
rooms where Helen and Pamela were shot Helen was found upstairs in her bathroom Pamela in the mudro found on the floor
00:36:28
under a quilt oddly her phone was sitting on top of the quilt in a pool of blood we know what that means we know
00:36:36
that it means that that phone was placed there sometime after she died but this wasn't the only strange
00:36:43
clue Helen's cell phone was set on the bathroom counter near the sink and yet didn't have a spot of blood on it and I
00:36:52
want to find out who put that cell phone there in that particular place so you want to check for fingerprint and DNA
00:36:58
yes what do you find on this phone nothing nothing nothing on Helen's phone she'd find the mother's phone was also
00:37:07
clean on the front we will typically see fingerprints or at least smudges of fingerprints on this one we were able to
00:37:15
see smears as if someone had wiped it from side to side the bathroom was in disarray with toiletry scattered on the
00:37:24
floor but Detective Elliot noticed that the rifle was neatly placed why hadn't it tumbled away when she shot herself
00:37:33
the rifle was still laying perfectly within her legs that to me tells me that if she's moving enough to move things
00:37:42
off of the back of the toilet I would expect that gun to have fallen down to the floor I also have seen suicides done
00:37:50
with long guns where they are not able to retain control of the gun but for Detectives the rifle's perfect placement
00:38:00
wouldn't be the only red flag you have a scene that's relatively small detective
00:38:05
byerson told me that if Helen had killed herself in such a small bathroom there'd
00:38:11
likely be Blood on the rifle there is blood everywhere it's all over the place however there doesn't seem to be
00:38:19
any blood on the rifle itself which is sitting in the middle of all of this even though there's blood underneath so
00:38:27
that is a huge problem to the detective this just didn't make sense we had a generally clean weapon and then
00:38:36
underneath the weapon there was blood where there shouldn't have been if the weapon was there so that suggests
00:38:42
perhaps someone else shot Helen it suggests that the weapon wasn't there until later
00:38:49
on which doesn't sound like a murder suicide to me then right it does not and in the basement another strange site
00:39:07
Detective Elliot found couch cushions that looked like they'd been slashed with a knife I wasn't sure if someone
00:39:14
was taking out some anger or what they were doing was it a tear kind of cut or was it puncture kind of cut it was a
00:39:22
stabbing puncture type cut like someone had what practiced on it yes and is it true that there was a long
00:39:29
knife found in the house yes the knife was in plain sight she took a photo of it still down there in the basement this
00:39:38
is the knife and it's sitting on a bookshelf that was just to the left of the couch cushions in the same room
00:39:45
detective Elliott believed the killer may have considered using the knife as a murder weapon instead of the rifle and
00:39:52
then when Detective Elliot turned to look at Pamela haran's bookshelves she spotted something else so that
00:40:00
Center uh set of books that are kind of gray with the Red Band those are photo albums and I got a little uh nosy and I
00:40:08
wanted to see what my victims may have looked like in Life or as they grew up so I pulled out one of the center photo
00:40:14
albums to look at it and open it up and behind it was a piece of evidence that ended up being quite important what was
00:40:22
found it was a photocopy of Pamela's spreadsheet that she used for all her accounts account numbers and passcodes
00:40:31
it was also a photocopy of Pamela's bank statement this was still the night of the shootings and while Detective Elliot
00:40:39
wanted to dig in and learn more about this bank statement financial documents were not on our search warrant and so
00:40:47
therefore I could not take it we photographed it as we found it that night and eventually a couple days later
00:40:53
came back with a search warrant to recover those papers and they were not not there they were not there they were
00:40:59
not you found yourself a pretty interesting piece of of evidence right yes at the time we weren't exactly sure
00:41:06
what we were dealing with detectives were becoming increasingly convinced that both the
00:41:13
haran women had been murdered but by who and what was the motive it would turn out that Helen's
00:41:21
boyfriend Carlos had shared a theory with Ashley here's detective John vicory asking the father Steve haran about it
00:41:31
tell me again what Carla says to you to her you know exactly what Ashley tells me that Carlo said to her that Megan
00:41:40
shot your mother earlier that July Morning Carlos had woken up to some messages from his
00:41:53
girlfriend Helen one text read I wanted to see if by chance you were awake call me when you do wake up love you to
00:42:03
Carlos nothing out of the ordinary everything appeared to be okay our producer Michelle sigona read through
00:42:11
Carlos's Court testimony about that morning he was at home in Dallas and had slept in the two played phone tag until
00:42:20
after 11 eastern time when Carlos finally caught her Helen was beside herself later in the morning um Carlos
00:42:31
says specifically that Helen sound sounded frightened and scared he used words like Helen was trembling she was
00:42:38
sobbing she was very frantic she immediately told him why and Carlos would tell 911 Cy police ire how may I assist you
00:42:50
my girlfriend told me that her sister killed her mom and now my girlfriend w answer her
00:42:57
phone Carlos explained to the operator that Helen told him her sister Megan came upstairs to her room and said that
00:43:05
she killed her mother Pamela so if you let that sink in for a minute she told me that her sister had killed her mother
00:43:14
I can't imagine being in Dallas Texas while talking to my girlfriend on the phone who was inside this home where
00:43:24
something horrific has happened and not really knowing what to do Carlos even said Helen told him she could hear her
00:43:32
mother gasping for life things sounded dire he was trying to get to the heart of what was happening in all of this
00:43:41
Carlos told Helen to leave immediately he was trying to tell her to get out of the house to call police to do something
00:43:49
but Helen had hesitation according to Carlos Helen was very nervous and possibly scared for her niece who
00:43:59
apparently was also in the home Helen wanted to protect her niece Megan's Daughter Molly and that she was worried
00:44:06
what her sister might do if the police showed up she didn't want her niece to see her mother getting arrested soon
00:44:14
after Helen stopped responding and he called for help but Carlos couldn't recall Pamela haran's
00:44:22
address okay where do you live I live in Dallas you live mlan okay and what's her
00:44:30
address I don't know she's at her mom's house her mom's name is Pam haran Carlos
00:44:35
thought his future wife's life was at risk but this lack of details only left emergency services with more questions
00:44:44
they asked Carlos to call back when he had more information and kept having him speak to different operators rehashing
00:44:52
what Helen had told him finally the public safety supervisor in Fairfax County Virginia called Carlos herself
00:45:02
her name is Lisa Wagner Smith she wanted to know how this alleged murder had unfolded okay was this just out of the
00:45:10
blue did you say how she did it or why she did it she said she shot her she said she woke up and her sister told her
00:45:16
she shot her mom so your girlfriend is sitting in a house with a dead woman the 911
00:45:24
supervisor sounded skeptical why why would Helen stay put if her sister had killed their mom Carlos would call back
00:45:32
with the right information and reach a 911 operator I I reported a murder earlier and I didn't have the address
00:45:40
now I have the address so we didn't mean you reported a murder earlier do you think something
00:45:46
happened there well I know for a fact that her sister shot her mom when this morning
00:45:53
that's what I'm trying to tell you guys yeah this morning she called me and told
00:45:56
me her sister shot her mom and she didn't know what to do and I told her to call the cops to get the kid and call
00:46:01
the cops the operator passed Carlos back to Lisa the supervisor with the address
00:46:08
and some information confirmed after multiple calls from Carlos 911 was finally able to send help we are sending
00:46:17
an officer out there is there anything else you can think of that we need to know no I mean I'm just freaking out I'm
00:46:25
I'm thinking something bad happened to my girlfriend in case you didn't catch that Carlos
00:46:30
said he was freaking out and worried something had happened to Helen before they end the call though Carlos did
00:46:38
think of something else officers needed to know if y'all need it like I have like some incriminating text that her
00:46:45
sister sent me Carlos thought Megan was texting him not his girlfriend what does
00:46:52
that say CU after the fact that Helen told me that her sister children Mom right mhm
00:46:59
she I called her and she wouldn't answer and so she text me back Helen did and it
00:47:06
was like hey sorry I'm just arguing with my mom she pisses me off hate her and I
00:47:11
this is after the fact that Helen told me that her sister told her mom so I know that her sister got her phone and
00:47:17
was sending these messages here's what one of those texts said everything is fine I'm not mad at Megan I'm mad that
00:47:26
my mom paid for her house she and her husband should buy it themselves here is our producer Michelle sagona again based
00:47:35
on these text messages he was receiving they were a huge red flag for Carlos he just wanted Helen to call him but all he
00:47:43
got were texts and that started to feel suspicious I'm not even mad at her really the text continued just effing
00:47:52
hate my mom Carlos didn't think that sounded like the woman he loved he kept calling Helen's cell finally he
00:48:01
was able to reach someone but it was not Helen it was Megan on the other side of
00:48:06
the phone here's Carlos again yes and and now I called my girlfriend and her sister answers the phone and refuses to
00:48:14
let me talk to my girlfriend but Carlos persisted and he kept asking I need to speak with Helen I'm having a bad day I
00:48:23
need to speak with Helen and he's just getting some conflicting information Carlos doesn't back down he said he
00:48:31
stayed on the phone pushing Megan to give the phone to Helen for nearly 10 minutes he believes at this point that
00:48:38
she is not okay on that long call Carlos said Megan told him that her mother didn't approve of him and that she
00:48:47
wasn't going to let them move into the new house in Aldi Carlos claims that you know Pam had never said that to him or
00:48:54
to Helen the call ended without him ever speaking to his girlfriend so none of this is making sense to him this is why
00:49:05
he decides to make a brave move and call 911 Carlos realized that he needed to be
00:49:12
the one to call for help and would begin his agonizing journey to sound the alarm
00:49:18
with the Emergency Services my gosh can you imagine I mean not knowing what's happening inside of that house and
00:49:25
trying to call 911 and being told you have to go through all these steps Megan told police she left the house around
00:49:33
1:30 that afternoon headed for West Virginia and then turned around to go to her dad's after she heard about the
00:49:41
shooting Ashley was racing to her dad's too Carlos had called her while she was in the car but Ashley had trouble
00:49:49
believing his story here is detective vicory asking Ashley about the call after she arrived at her dad's we we
00:49:58
heard you received a call from Carlos yes and I don't even know this kid was stranger off the street he was saying
00:50:05
that my this sister shot my mom by this sister Ashley meant Megan who was sitting right there with them she would
00:50:13
never do that ever never okay obviously I've known her my entire life and we've been through hell and bad together I
00:50:23
know my sister Ashley told the detective she's been calling her mom and sister Megan chimed in to say she has two I
00:50:33
left voice Wills her mom I was trying to talk Carlos was saying Megan killed her
00:50:40
mother but in that moment the sisters were dismissive of him I don't know this guy from Adam that's what I that's what
00:50:48
I've been saying like Ashley made it clear she didn't believe that Megan is a murderer do you recall his exact words
00:50:57
Megan shot your mom and I was like I'm sorry what we were together all morning I know like it just nothing's adding up
00:51:07
nothing was adding up Ashley and her dad didn't seem scared of Megan police didn't arrest her and that day law
00:51:17
enforcement told the public that the killer was dead Patrol officers thought Helen had
00:51:24
done it but given how the crime scen didn't neatly fit a murder suicide and Carlos's 911 calls detective berson
00:51:34
asked himself the question was Megan the killer did she murder both her mom and Helen that
00:51:45
morning we have manipulated crime scene in multiple places the wiped phone the possibly
00:51:53
wiped rifle the placing of the rifle we have the fact that Mom was covered and that her phone was laying on top of the
00:52:02
quilt a couple days later they would hear about a suspicious call it becomes very obvious to us that there is no
00:52:11
other there is no Boogeyman here it is exactly who we think it is from 48 hours this is blood is
00:52:24
thicker the haran family killing Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48 Hours original reporting by 48 Hours
00:52:34
producers Sarah elely Michelle sigona Lauren white and Josh joerger Jamie Benson is the senior
00:52:42
producer for Paramount audio and Mara walls is the senior story editor recording assistants from Alan
00:52:51
Pang and Marlin polycarp special thanks to paramont podcast vice president Megan Marcus and
00:52:58
48 Hours senior producer Peter schwitzer blood is thicker is produced by Sony Music
00:53:07
Entertainment it was written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are
00:53:14
Katherine St Louis and Jonathan Hirsch our associate producer is zoi kulen theme and original music composed
00:53:23
by hansdale shei he also s designed and mixed the episodes we also use music by Blue Dot sessions Katherine Newan is our
00:53:35
fact Checker our production managers are tamaa balance kassi and Samantha Allison
00:53:41
I'm Peter Van sand if you're enjoying the show be sure to rate and review it helps more people find it and hear our
00:53:50
reporting you can listen to blood is thicker the haran family killings early and AD free right now by joining wry
00:53:59
Plus in the wry app or on Apple podcasts thanks for [Music] listening we had to take everything
00:54:13
every scenario into play that's our responsibility after spending the whole evening coming for Clues at the haran
00:54:22
house homicide detective Brian byerson of the Fairfax County Police police knew something was off the rifle leaning
00:54:30
against Helen's dead body wasn't covered in blood both Helen and Pamela's cell phones had been wiped clean and then
00:54:39
later into the day the detective learned what Helen's boyfriend Carlos Gutierrez
00:54:45
had told 911 dispatchers my girlfriend told me that her sister killed her mom and now my girlfriend won't answer
00:54:55
her phone Carlos had said that Helen's sister Megan had killed Pamela we knew that Megan haran was at her father's
00:55:04
home I had a conversation with that detective and I asked him to get a good statement from her as far as where she
00:55:11
was and GSR her hands G gunshot residue gunshot residue yes the police took photos of Megan and gather evidence that
00:55:21
evening and Fairfax County Police used one of their gunshot res residue kits to test Megan's hands and the result
00:55:30
revealed something both suspicious and disturbing Megan haran had gunshot residue on her hands there is no reason
00:55:41
that she should have that by Nightfall The Day of the shootings detectives knew Megan had
00:55:48
recently fired a weapon remember both victims had been shot to death the next day another crucial piece of evidence
00:55:58
came to light in these kind of cases we don't really know anything until other things happen meaning the autopsy is
00:56:05
extremely important in these cases authorities examined Pamela and Helen's bodies and at the
00:56:12
autopsy we realized that the gunshot wound on Helen haran was in the top of her head the entrance and exit wounds
00:56:23
didn't make sense to berson we don't see a a way that she could have made that or
00:56:28
she could have shot herself with the trajectory that we were seeing in the x-rays we were face to
00:56:35
face when detective byerson told me this he then demonstrated what happened to Helen according to the
00:56:42
autopsy he lifted up his arm and pointed straight down at the top of his head that's the angle he said the bullet
00:56:50
entered Helen's skull from the top of her head down into her neck it's straight down left to right in crime
00:57:00
scene photos the 22 caliber long rifle is aimed up resting in her lap she would have to hold it straight up and be able
00:57:10
to reach the trigger to accomplish this I've never seen that before and I've worked a lot of death cases I've worked
00:57:17
a lot of murders I've never seen that we had other uh detectives at the time that
00:57:21
had much more experience than I did we all agreed that this is not even a Poss possibility in his mind they were now
00:57:29
investigating a double homicide so now this big puzzle we're starting to fit pieces together and we're starting to
00:57:36
see a general outline of maybe what happened here detective byerson wanted to talk with the only other adult who
00:57:43
said they were in the house the day of the shooting Meg I'm sorry I didn't have your phone
00:57:50
number by then Megan haran had talked on the phone with Detective byerson a few times I offered everything the first
00:57:59
night I said please like just whatever you need but byerson wanted to speak in person she had offered to come in one
00:58:08
time and give us anything that we asked for so we took advantage of that at this
00:58:12
point they've got evidence and they want to confront Megan with some of it and see how she reacts would she have a good
00:58:21
explanation for having touched the rifle and if she did have have something to do with the deaths of her loved ones
00:58:29
would she confess I'm Peter vanan from 48 Hours blood is thicker the haran family
00:58:39
killings I gave you every my clothing I gave you my finger I gave you everything
00:58:45
because of that why would I give that if I if I knew I was guilty episode three a killer in plain
00:58:53
sight [Music] we wanted to know more about who Megan haran was in early summer of 2022 we
00:59:08
turned to Rebecca wolf she's one of Megan's closest friends she told us more about the eldest daughter in the haran
00:59:18
family Megan and I met through a lot of the animal rescue work that we did together we fostered some of the same
00:59:25
dogs Rebecca said they met a couple of years before the shootings 2015 2016 we met and just hit
00:59:33
it off right away they originally bonded over their Love of Animals Megan volunteered for dog rescues and even
00:59:42
helped veterans bring home dogs they had adopted overseas so it evolved obviously
00:59:49
um from just that topic to talking about all the things talking about her daughter talking about her family
00:59:55
talking about my my family Rebecca said Megan often talked about her life and plans including how she hoped to move
01:00:03
into a new house in West Virginia she described Megan as kindhearted she will give you the shirt off her back she
01:00:12
raised a great daughter her daughter is one of the smartest kids I know we wanted to know if Megan had told Rebecca
01:00:18
about any turmoil in the haran family any worrisome signs you could call it the All-American family now because now
01:00:26
the All American family is messed up right so the haran family as told to me was your typical American Family where
01:00:34
Mom and Dad got divorced all the drama that comes with that with new relationships new spouses
01:00:42
stepparents but Rebecca didn't remember Megan being all that resentful or upset about her childhood As Told by Megan a
01:00:51
very beautiful family experience with the perfunctory weirdness of families Megan did Tell Rebecca that at
01:01:01
times she was frustrated with kid Sister Helen Helen was the baby sister and if you have siblings you know the baby
01:01:11
whatever is a pain always but that doesn't mean you don't love them that doesn't mean you don't go out of your
01:01:19
way to help them Megan did that for Helen a lot the gist Rebecca got from her friend
01:01:26
was that Megan was the responsible one Megan was kind of the mom of the crew my understanding of Helen is that she was
01:01:34
actually more of an introvert that she was not the party animal Ashley was more the party animal but Rebecca said that
01:01:41
from what she knew Megan the oldest always got along more with her middle sister Ashley than with Helen I never
01:01:50
got the impression that the relationship with Ashley was as maybe contentious as it was with
01:01:58
Helen and and the reason I use that word contentious is because again baby sisters can be a pain in the butt
01:02:04
however Megan said Helen was particularly dependent on the family that was sort of her attitude on life
01:02:12
mom will Mom will take care of it if Mom doesn't take care of it Megan will come
01:02:15
down here and take care of it for me type thing so again she kind of got the benefit of a mom and a secondary mom
01:02:24
Helen isn't here to tell her side of things but that's what Rebecca said Megan told her and apparently Megan
01:02:32
never said a harsh word about her mother to Rebecca Megan admired Pam's wisdom her career all that she had done through
01:02:40
her lifetime she always spoke very lovingly of her Rebecca said her friend described Pamela as a strong matriarch
01:02:50
her loves in Life or her daughters and her granddaughter and she and Molly had an exceptional
01:02:57
relationship and as someone who enjoyed being generous it wasn't like you want something again it was I want to do this
01:03:07
for you Megan told her friend that her mother had insisted on helping pay for her new house Megan was in the process
01:03:16
of moving to West Virginia she didn't need the help her husband Frank's salary was enough to get them alone but
01:03:23
Pamela's help would let them buy a place outright with cash I mean she was going
01:03:29
out to get a house with her husband the two of them and her mom said I want to contribute to this house for you I want
01:03:36
to help you buy this house so her understanding was her mom was going to do something one way or the other Megan
01:03:44
had been living with her mom for nearly eight years her husband Frank was a soldier who was often deployed
01:03:52
overseas finally the couple and their daughter would soon be back under the same roof and starting a new life in
01:03:59
West Virginia That was supposed to happen the day before Pamela and Helen died Rebecca
01:04:07
expected to get a call about their new ranch style home and not a tragedy Megan called me and left me a voicemail and
01:04:17
just said hey it's Megan I just wanted to let you know something horrible has happened and I don't want you to see it
01:04:23
on the news and um Mom and Helen are gone call me Megan sounded distraught I almost felt bad about calling her back
01:04:34
cuz she sounded so upset Rebecca started Googling for information police say Helen haran shot her mom Pamela haran
01:04:42
before turning the gun on herself nothing led me to wow I think Helen's going to murder
01:04:49
her mom and kill herself over a house a week or two after the shootings Rebecca said Megan came to visit her in
01:04:58
Virginia she didn't know then Megan was a person of interest in her sister and mother's murders she just seemed very
01:05:10
lost I don't know any other way to put it and I think it probably took a long time for her to really wrap her arms
01:05:18
around my mom's gone Helen's gone Rebecca sat with her friend not thinking thinking even for a second that Megan
01:05:28
could be the killer no never once and that's the thing I mean she and I have had many many conversations in the years
01:05:35
since all this has happened and I would not have let her in my house if I thought by any stretch of the
01:05:43
imagination that what they accused her of was possible I just wouldn't have I'm biased she's my
01:05:48
friend do I think she did this and I always came back to no I do not my Spidey s never went off I do not believe
01:05:57
that Magan killed her mom Pam or her sister Helen but unlike Rebecca detectives hadn't ruled out that Megan could be
01:06:07
responsible for the double homicide what we're trying to find out which we think
01:06:11
you it's important to you too is to find out who killed your sister and Mom that's what the main goal of this whole
01:06:17
conversation is I did not kill my mom okay then who did byon H detective Megan I'm sorry I
01:06:30
didn't have your phone number oh no problem Megan how how you holding up I am really not
01:06:36
okay Megan haran called detective Brian byerson on July 17th 2017 it had been 3 days since her sister
01:06:46
and mother Helen and Pamela haran were found dead we're at the funeral home right now I'm
01:06:53
sorry right now I'm so sorry detective berson's investigation had just taken a turn and he had some questions for Megan
01:07:04
hey the um do you have a do you have a second okay they talked on the phone a couple of times that day in the calls
01:07:13
Megan went back and forth between blaming her sister Helen my sister was not my sister for many months and being
01:07:22
adamant that the murder suicide Theory was out of the question I just I can't imagine her doing something that violent
01:07:32
the same day as these calls detective byerson had learned of new evidence he asked Megan for certain details on the
01:07:41
phone but asked her to come into the police station later that week I'll probably have you guys come out here so
01:07:48
we'll make sure that it's it's uh SK like your schedule will will just allow it's just yeah and can everything be
01:07:57
done at once yes byon and Megan talked enough that day to fill up his recording device 2
01:08:06
Days Later Megan arrived at the police station with her family their understanding was that detectives had
01:08:13
new information she had offered to come in uh one time and give us anything that
01:08:19
we asked for so we took advantage of that and myself and my partner detective needles had her come in for an update uh
01:08:26
as we termed it detectives brought Megan to a small room for her to be fingerprinted byerson said the other
01:08:34
family members were taken into another room she comes up she meets with Detective Julia Elliott we take a DNA
01:08:41
sample from her we take her fingerprints yes okay so she's going to take care of
01:08:45
the of the fingerprints okay and the DNA stuff and then when she's done Steve and
01:08:50
I'll come in here and we'll we'll get you updated okay after they are finished with the tests Megan sat down with
01:08:56
Detective byerson and detective needles now thanks for coming I appreciate it well I but like I I don't I don't mean
01:09:04
to harp on this but like I I'm here like what do you need Megan could leave whenever she
01:09:11
wanted byerson told her as much if you want to leave let me know I will walk you back downstairs okay okay I I just
01:09:19
want to make sure that you understand that you're I'm not holding you here okay and then we then start going
01:09:24
through this update with her and is this a conversation that's on video it is it's about 4 and a half hours long and
01:09:32
most of that is because it at some point we just can't get her to leave detective
01:09:37
byerson sat across from her and leaned back a little in the chair we didn't have enough at that time to charge her
01:09:44
officially so we wanted to get a statement on the record from her the interview went on and on for hours at
01:09:52
times it got contentious she had very inappropriate emotional responses at at weird times she got very angry at
01:10:02
us for weird things we asked her if she'd ever done any drugs anything about drug use anything oh my God I never have
01:10:10
no all right no I'm sorry I'm sorry a really strong r at one point in the interview Megan
01:10:18
told the investigators that she had called police to report two suspicious men in the neighborhood one one black
01:10:26
the other Asian this is something Megan had brought up to byerson before she said she reported the suspicious men the
01:10:34
day before the murders you guys know about I had to call the police or my mom asked me to call the police cuz there
01:10:40
was those two guys what what heard detective John vicory remember he was the cop at the father's house on the day
01:10:48
of the tragedy he'd recorded Megan talking about these two men on the day of the shootings I had to call the
01:10:56
police over this guys and you just know when someone like that's not somebody that's in your neighborhood kind of
01:11:01
thing cuz we're very quiet neighborhood Megan told vicory that to be safe her mom asked her to hide the rifle in the
01:11:09
family room I don't think she would ever you know in a rush try to get it out it
01:11:15
was in a bag detective byerson checked into Megan's story but no one besides her had mentioned these men to police
01:11:24
the only call that made about these guys in the neighborhood is from Megan haran
01:11:28
another issue detective byerson wanted to nail down was all those houses Pamela haran was supposedly buying and selling
01:11:37
he asked about the one Megan was buying with her husband what is the situation with that house you guys are are you
01:11:44
guys buying how's that working okay so she was going to do a wire change and she said it's too late for me to do
01:11:49
cashier's check um cuz she just thought she was like I can always do a wire transfer that's what she just thought
01:11:53
she said why she had done it before you think with another house that wire transfer for more than
01:12:01
$400,000 would never go through that money didn't leave Pamela's account so what was the problem Megan blamed a
01:12:12
series of complications there was an issue about which bank account the money for the
01:12:17
house would come from she told detective berson that Pamela was going to use the
01:12:23
money from a family trust yeah because at first we thought the trust were already going to be dissolved it was
01:12:30
supposed to happen May 24th and it never did or I don't know if it's legally a mess I don't know what
01:12:38
happened I don't know you don't know much about the trust my mom just told us it's you're going to be fine you can
01:12:42
have that for your house but that didn't turn out to be true Megan wouldn't get that house and by the next day that
01:12:51
Friday Pamela and Helen haran would be dead here's detective needles and did she
01:12:59
ever wire the money to them she had okay that's what happened Thursday this is why Thursday is very important for cuz I
01:13:05
realize you there this is a big amount of money and I realize because of what happened you guys are like I that I
01:13:12
we're doing what suddenly Megan's mood shifted they're looking at me looking at you yeah and I get oh I mean looking at
01:13:18
you because you might be responsible is that what you're talking about yeah by then Megan understood she
01:13:26
was in their sights 1 hour into the interview Megan showed no signs of wrapping up her
01:13:35
version of events with detectives byerson and needles I'm sorry that's okay I mean Friday's difficult very
01:13:42
difficult for you it's understandable but obviously Friday is important they're surprised how long Megan stayed
01:13:48
with them in that little room at the police station it's probably like more like 3 hours of actual back and fourth
01:13:55
and an hour and a half of just like we're trying to figure out like she won't leave she even tried to convince
01:14:02
them that her cooperation was a sign of Innocence I gave you every my clothing I
01:14:08
gave you my finger I gave you everything because of that why would I give that if I if I knew I was guilty as
01:14:17
the interview progressed the detectives questions became more and more direct they brought up the 911 calls from
01:14:25
Helen's boyfriend Carlos Gutierrez because there's are a lot of phone calls and there's a lot from
01:14:32
Carlos she never told me she didn't tell me to L her that Carlos called her no but he says you answer the phone and
01:14:39
that calls on the records the detectives bore in saying they didn't believe Megan
01:14:46
she claimed she'd never spoken to Carlos when they knew she had I have never talked to him never
01:14:56
the the closest thing I have ever gotten to him 4th of July they were coming to get the
01:15:02
blankets and I was lit I was at the bottom of the stairs my mom was like no no no they're still in the driveway but
01:15:07
still now you've never spoken to them but as we told you last episode Carlos said he spoke to Megan for nearly 10
01:15:15
minutes while he tried to get her to put Helen on the phone then the detectives asked her outright about what Carlos
01:15:23
told 911 that Helen said she killed their mom why would he say something like that well
01:15:32
what would be his motive to implicate you yeah why you why would he pick you he knows I live
01:15:38
there and I think right I don't I don't want to say what I think oh we want you anything to help you say I don't want to
01:15:47
say I don't want to say I don't want to say what I think I don't want to say what I think
01:15:56
you think your s killed your mother there's no way I would have I would have heard it Megan's response
01:16:04
here doesn't line up with what she originally told police she had said she and her daughter Molly left the house
01:16:12
before the shootings so it's unclear what she meant by I would have heard it here's Megan again the only time I
01:16:21
wasn't I was downstairs I I would assume I I would still hear something like that and my mom was with me like how how
01:16:32
how I don't understand like I don't I just don't understand how how what how that would have
01:16:40
happened I don't I don't understand I'm sorry I just I don't I don't know it seemed that Megan was struggling to keep
01:16:47
her story straight she wasn't sure Helen was the killer anymore the detective started this
01:16:54
interview not knowing what they'd get but some recently discovered evidence had made them curious about how Megan
01:17:02
planned to pay for her new house in West Virginia she said her mom was going to wire the money she initiated the wire
01:17:11
transfer her story had changed yet again Megan had told police that something got
01:17:17
tripped up when her mother wired the money the detectives waited before pointing out the holes in Megan's store
01:17:25
if she's going to talk let her talk we were texting I mean you guys got my phone you know like give you my phone
01:17:32
you can see the text that were back and forth she was like okay listen I froze the accounts I'm going to deal with this
01:17:38
when I get back down there up until this moment Megan insisted that her mom called the bank but you heard Megan say
01:17:46
it right there to the detectives and they had looked through her phone the evidence was clear but detectives had
01:17:54
some evidence Megan didn't know existed the recordings from Capital 1 they could
01:18:01
listen to who made the request to wire money and they offered to play Megan some of the tape you know when the when
01:18:09
you call the bank to do a wire transfer you know they record the calls right okay so one of the things that's always
01:18:17
been bothering me a little bit yeah um is that call meanwhile in the other room where Megan's family is waiting
01:18:25
police were playing the calls for them too they recognized the voice when they arrived at the police station Megan's
01:18:34
family was standing by her but now so they're hearing the calls and I think what's going on is that they're
01:18:42
realizing on that day that oh my God like there is a good chance that she actually did
01:18:49
this on the next episode of blood is thicker and incriminating call good morning thank you for calling cap One
01:18:57
Bank my name is Brooks would you tell me your name please Pamela Hansen hargen hello missan thank you for using our
01:19:04
automated system for verification what can I do for you today I was just transferred to you I was told that I
01:19:09
could do a wire transfer online wait is that Pamela [Music] from 48 hours this is blood is thicker
01:19:33
the haran family killings Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48 Hours original reporting by 48 Hours
01:19:43
producers Sarah elely Michelle sigona Lauren white and Josh joerger Jamie Benson is the senior
01:19:51
producer for paramont audio and Mora walls is the senior story editor recording assistants from Alan
01:19:59
Pang and Marlin polycarp special thanks to Paramount podcast vice president Megan Marcus and
01:20:07
48 Hours senior producer Peter schwitzer blood is thicker is produced by Sony Music
01:20:15
Entertainment it was written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are
01:20:22
Katherine St Louis and John Hirsch our associate producer is Zoe kulen theme and original music composed
01:20:32
by hansdale shei he also soundd designed and mixed the episodes we also use music
01:20:39
by Blue Dot sessions Katherine Newan is our fact Checker our production managers
01:20:45
are tamaa balance kassi and Samantha Allison I'm Peter Van sand if you're enjoying the show be sure to rate and
01:20:54
review it helps more people find it and hear our reporting you can listen to blood is thicker the haran family
01:21:02
killings early and AD free right now by joining wry Plus in the wry app or on Apple podcasts thanks for
01:21:14
[Music] listening thank you for calling Capital One Bank my name is jff me I have your
01:21:24
name please hey Jeff my name is Felix I'm multile Capital One I've got a customer Pamela
01:21:32
haran the phone call you're hearing is from July 13th 2017 the day before Helen and Pamela haran were found dead inside
01:21:43
their home in mlan Virginia on the call two employees from Capital 1 Bank are talking about Pamela haran earlier that
01:21:53
day someone had called the bank asking to transfer hundreds of thousands of dollars from Pamela's account Felix is
01:22:02
with the wire callback authentication team he's trying to speak with Pamela to confirm that the request had come from
01:22:11
her here's Felix talking to his colleague I've got a customer Pamela haran who uh when I called her back she
01:22:21
did not call in to create a wire request and she's the only signer on this account so whoever requested that wire
01:22:29
transfer wasn't Pamela and uh she asked us to uh to transfer her to you guys for
01:22:36
fraud uh because it looks like they tried to send out a $419,000 wire request oh yeah you know just you know
01:22:43
chunk Chang before he brings Pamela into the conversation Felix warns Jeff that she's suspicious that they're really
01:22:52
Bank employees she was a little bit weary uh you know not trusting that we're actually Capital One who calling
01:23:00
her Felix puts Pamela on the line with Jeff and she is immediately skeptical hello yes hello
01:23:11
hi who am I speaking to who am I speaking to my name is Jeff with Capital One okay this is Pamela Hansen haran at
01:23:21
this point Pamela has only been told that someone tried to move money from her account Jeff is about to tell her
01:23:29
how much I do have your account in front of me so I hear that um somebody tried to do a wire out of your account for 400
01:23:37
and some odd thousand what yeah that's what the other gentl was saying 400 and some OD thousand he
01:23:45
said Pamela is stunned and insists she never agreed to any such transfer I did not do that well no I know he called you
01:23:55
because of a pending wire and then you told him that you didn't do any wires is that correct correct correct okay okay
01:24:03
you made me nervous for a minute those those accounts are not to be touched period can you freeze all my accounts
01:24:10
yeah yeah actually I've already done that police would later explain that Pamela was on her way to Pennsylvania to
01:24:17
meet with her daughter Ashley when she got this call she asked her other daughter Megan who was still home in
01:24:24
mlan Virginia to go into the bank and figure out what was going on in the meantime Jeff from Capital One reassures
01:24:35
Pamela you don't need to worry your funds are are are safe all right thank you you're more than welcome you have a
01:24:42
great day you as well thank you byebye Pamela was adamant she wasn't the one who initiated the wire transfer
01:24:55
so who did after the killings police went back and listened to the mystery caller thank you for calling cap one my
01:25:04
name is Brooks would you tell me your name please Pamela Hansen haran do you recognize that voice detectives thought
01:25:12
they did do we think we killed your mom absolutely yes oh my God I'm Peter Van Sant from 48 hours
01:25:26
this is blood is thicker the hargan family killings episode 4 the [Music] impersonator after Pamela and Helen
01:25:44
haran were found dead on Friday July 14th 2017 police learned about that call made
01:25:52
to Capital 1 the day before the murders it was baffling so they listened to the call a little more
01:26:01
closely good morning thank you for calling kaan Bank my name is Brooks would you tell me your name please
01:26:07
Pamela Hansen hargen this is the earlier call from that same day the caller claimed to be Pamela haran but the voice
01:26:16
sounded different I was just transferred to you I was told that I could do a wire
01:26:21
transfer online not able to do a wire online but I can try to help you by Fone the caller said
01:26:29
she needed the money for her daughter who was closing on her new house that day what time is is the closing in 20
01:26:38
minutes okay it's it's very unlikely it will be there in 20 minutes Brook with Capital One told the caller that someone
01:26:47
would call her back to verify the details and if everything checked out the funds would be released an hour or
01:26:55
so after that can you also verify because my phone numbers were inverted I think on my account this is my home
01:27:02
phone number and this is where I'm at so this is the phone number that needs to be used I just don't want to miss
01:27:07
anything right right and the number that you gave me match what we have on file police discovered that the caller
01:27:15
clearly not Pamela answered the multiple choice security questions accurately all right next question what
01:27:24
color is your 1991 Chevrolet Cavalier is it black chrome green yellow or you've never been associated with
01:27:33
this never been associated with a Cavalier all right this caller posing as Pamela also knew she had other daughters
01:27:43
I'm going to be doing this again for my other daughter in about 3 weeks not suspecting any fraud the Capital One
01:27:50
employee then asked how much money she wanted transferred okay let me get the exact amount it's
01:27:58
um 49,000 $34. 77 that's the exact payment the real Pamela haran would cancel about an hour
01:28:13
later the next day Capital 1 received yet another call from that woman again purporting to be Pamela haran at that
01:28:23
time the bank had no way of knowing that Pamela had been shot may I have your first and last name please Pamela Hansen
01:28:31
haran thank you I understand you want to complete a wire transfer with us today uh yes we attempted to yesterday and
01:28:38
there was a bit of a mixup so we would like to do it again now okay this is where things unraveled for the
01:28:45
impersonator remember Felix from earlier in the episode well he happened to get assigned yet again to call Pam haran to
01:28:55
verify the wire transfer Felix with Capital One call to speak with Pamela Hansen this is she uh
01:29:02
Hansen har this time this Pamela didn't seem to recognize fix's voice or name and may
01:29:12
please have your name again uh my name is Felix we spoke yesterday oh I'm sorry I thought you said Stuart Felix verified
01:29:19
some personal information and the impersonator approved the transfer anything else I can help you with Before
01:29:26
I Let You Go uh no and thank you so much for yesterday I really appreciate it yeah no worries of
01:29:33
course 3 days after the shootings someone else from the banks fraud division called detective Brian byerson
01:29:42
the representative said that they saw the news of Pamela's murder and thought police might want to know about the wire
01:29:50
transfers and the message basically reads hey this is who I I am this is who I'm with capital 1 fraud we saw the news
01:29:58
regarding uh the murder or the the death of Pamela haran Capital 1 sent the police all the
01:30:07
recordings of their calls when detectives listened they soon identified the phony Pamela they recognized the
01:30:15
voice as the sister who had gun residue on her hands who talked their ears off in a police interview 5 days after after
01:30:24
the shootings this caller also said she needed money for a house in West Virginia all signs were pointing to
01:30:33
Megan haran so now we have a really really really good motive for murder I think
01:30:40
she thought she was going to get the money we would think that this was a murder suicide she would get her house
01:30:46
and she would just be in West Virginia Living her life I don't think she ever thought that we'd figure this out but
01:30:52
detectives did C on and plan to let Megan know they asked her to come into the station for an update their plan was
01:31:01
to play her the calls and see how she would react you know when the when you call the bank to do a wire transfer you
01:31:08
know they record the calls right [Music] okay Megan arrived at the police station
01:31:23
not knowing that investigators planned an audio Ambush those Capital One recordings it was July 19th 5 days since
01:31:33
the murders Megan had been talking with detectives Brian byerson and Steve needles for nearly an hour when they
01:31:42
brought up those calls so one of the things that's always been bothering me a little bit yeah um
01:31:50
is that call I'm going to play the call for you all right good morning thank you for calling my
01:31:57
name is would you tell me your name please thank you for automated system for verification do for today I was just
01:32:06
transferred to you I was told that I could do a wi online no they kept the audio plain while they peppered her with
01:32:15
questions were you with her or anything not able to do a wire online Thursday morning yeah detective
01:32:22
byerson said he hoped she could explain something that happens on the call 6 minutes in the caller impersonating
01:32:30
Pamela asked the Capital One employee to wait while they call someone else byerson suspected the caller was
01:32:39
reaching out to her husband is it okay if I just give him a call to let him know that I'm actually
01:32:45
doing this over the phone because they were panicking going to take forever with me in the bank okay sure is that
01:32:52
sure you just want to put me a I can keep you on the phone while I do this okay detective byerson confronted
01:33:00
Megan Point Blank listen is that your mom come on back it's not it's time to tell the
01:33:08
truth I know who that you called your husband okay and I know that because when I looked at your phone dump right
01:33:16
armed with phone records the detectives told Megan they know she called her husband at the same time the person in
01:33:24
the recording makes a phone call initially Megan didn't confess but then she gave in okay who who is that on the
01:33:33
phone it is me it's you right the detectives didn't back off they played her the Capital One call you heard at
01:33:43
the top of this episode The One detectives were certain was the real Pamela somebody tried to do a wire out
01:33:50
of your account for 400 and some odd thousand what suddenly Megan started apologizing I'm sorry I'm sorry the
01:34:01
detectives kept pushing they wanted Megan to say why she was sorry just tell us the truth that's all we want to know
01:34:09
I need I have to understand it the problem is you can continue to liue it just yourself a deeper hole I was listen
01:34:18
we okay I'm fine I'm fine I'm fine in the police video you can see detective needles move his chair toward Megan just
01:34:26
a foot or two away as he pressed her for answers you're trying to think right now
01:34:32
how am I going to talk my way out of this no no you think I okay do we think we killed your mom absolutely yes we oh
01:34:38
my God yes we do in his rush to confront Megan detective needles misspoke they thought she killed Pamela she caught you
01:34:48
wiring on Friday it's okay absolutely convince me that you didn't we have you not right there Megan whispered I did
01:35:00
not kill my mom but cops had other new evidence to ask Megan about there was also a bank statement this was one of
01:35:10
the financial documents detective Julia Elliot spotted the day Helen and Pamela were murdered here's what Detective
01:35:19
Elliot told us it was a photocopy of Pamela's spreadsheet that she used for all her accounts account numbers and
01:35:28
passcodes it was also a photocopy of Pamela's bank statement Detective Elliot had
01:35:36
photographed the documents but when detectives returned with a warrant to collect them they were gone detectives
01:35:44
had learned that Megan sent the West Virginia real estate agent a bank statement with her name on it but
01:35:52
suspiciously the the amount sent matched what was in her mother's bank account not hers the detectives presented Megan
01:36:01
with their Theory she shot her mother then her sister Helen so all this looks like you killed your mom and sister so
01:36:10
help us would have let me get Megan's saying no way her sister would have let her walk away if she'd shot their mother
01:36:19
what you're not saying is no I didn't kill no no no I said no I didn't that's detective needles laughing he's
01:36:26
signaling that he didn't believe her finally the detectives decided to tell her exactly what they think happened and
01:36:35
how they think Pamela was already dead by the time Capital One got the second request to make a wire transfer I
01:36:44
already know that your mom is dead when that phone call is made detective berson
01:36:49
said he thought Megan shot Pamela before she called the on July 14th remember someone had covered
01:36:58
Pamela's body with a quilt they also found her cell phone set on top of a pool of blood leaning against the
01:37:09
quilt how does her phone get over to where her body is and set on top of where she's found she always carries
01:37:23
her no no she couldn't listen to me no I'm sorry okay it's fine she I'm telling you
01:37:28
I'm telling you where her phone is found she didn't drop it there it's impossible
01:37:33
detective needles leaned in again directly accusing Megan you shot your mom you covered her up with a blanket
01:37:40
cuz you could live with the guilt oh no and then you used your phone and you got
01:37:44
your money for your settlement but the bank was already on to you and and what nobody was ever going to come to the
01:37:51
house we you found that through yet then why does your sister Callos and tell him the truth remember
01:38:00
Helen the youngest sister had called her boyfriend I do because he spends an hour
01:38:05
trying to call 911 to make sure the love of his life is fine meanwhile unknown to
01:38:10
Megan Ashley and Steve haran Megan's sister and father were listening to these same bank calls in another room in
01:38:18
the police station along with Megan's husband Frank what you're not realizing is your family is being told all this
01:38:25
stuff right now oh I know yeah right now they're going to be swimming and qu they're going to be they're up there
01:38:30
right now the interview went on and on the detectives dug into more details about the wire transfer they accused
01:38:40
Megan of lying that's a complete lie why in the world would you lie to if I I'm here investigating the murder of your
01:38:46
mother and the death of your sister which is undetermined as to how she died okay you understand what I'm saying I'm
01:38:52
investigating that during that investigation to try to figure out what happened to the two people you're
01:38:56
supposed to love and then Megan seemed to break she seemed to contemplate her child growing up
01:39:05
motherless blame me blame me listen my family's been to enough let Molly grow up without me you have got to unload
01:39:14
this blame me that's fine there's nothing just blame me Megan seemed to be crumbling
01:39:24
but detectives still didn't have what they needed a full confession detectives established they
01:39:31
had plenty of circumstantial evidence but only a few days after the shootings they needed more that could stand up in
01:39:40
court so the question was would Megan confess [Music] Megan haran had come into the police
01:39:58
station around 5:00 in the evening there's been some issues over the last couple hours talking I'm sorry I'm sorry
01:40:06
I I understand it's hard and Megan was still there nearly 4 and a half hours later again and again she denied making
01:40:15
the capital 1 calls and then suddenly her story changed at that point had she given you approval to act like her and
01:40:24
to she sent me she even sent me in the Capital One bank to verify that everything had been frozen Megan not
01:40:31
only admitted to making the calls she claimed Pamela wanted her to be the one to request the wire transfer despite the
01:40:40
fact her mother was on tape saying she knew nothing of that transfer Megan was starting to sound defeated so during
01:40:49
this whole process you know many many times you said blame me blame me blame me just blame me I know but why I would
01:40:56
think you'd be more concerned with Molly Molly is Megan's daughter I am concerned
01:41:01
about Molly but so but if you're locked up forever and ever amen what happens to
01:41:06
Molly she has my husband Megan still hadn't admitted she had anything to do with the murders of her mother and
01:41:14
sister so she could walk away from this interview at any time the door was wide open though she didn't seem to
01:41:23
understand that I'm not allowed to go yes you we told you that from the very beginning course you are you're free to
01:41:27
leave I'm allowed to stand up and walk out why would I do that when you you guys are accusing me of something like
01:41:33
this I don't understand you're saying you think I did this but I'm allowed to leave Megan thought she was being played
01:41:43
no because you told me that you guys had just he us telling my family everything
01:41:47
and that yeah you believe I do I did this that's our belief right now you're you're you're a prime suspect absolutely
01:41:54
that doesn't mean that you were locking you up and taking you to jail tonight we're just talking what Megan didn't
01:42:01
realize was at the time of this interview the case against her was relatively weak later I asked detective
01:42:10
byerson about this after the police interview he told me the investigation was far from over so murder
01:42:18
investigations can be extremely complex um and especially in something like this
01:42:24
where you have a family member who you believe has killed almost her entire family her
01:42:31
entire immediate family other than her father and her middle sister you not only have to be
01:42:37
sure you have to be right and that decision is not just it does not just rest on me I can't just go
01:42:44
to the to the magistrate and swear out a murder warrant so Megan left that day with her
01:42:50
family a free woman Days Go By no arrest weeks turn into months during this time
01:42:59
Megan and her husband used a VA loan to buy a different home in West Virginia Megan's friend Rebecca wolf told us that
01:43:09
Megan decided to start a new life out of state she immediately got involved in her new community so Molly is getting
01:43:20
settled in her new school settled in her new New Girl Scout Troop um finding the
01:43:26
new church getting settled into the church Rebecca said that Megan went to work with her at her pet rescue I had
01:43:34
held a huge fundraiser for one of the rescue missions that we worked with so she actually helped me set the whole
01:43:40
thing up so we spent several months researching vendors getting vendors locked on Megan her husband and Molly were
01:43:51
finally all under their own roof together at last but Megan was in a kind of limbo because the investigators still
01:44:01
had her in their sights I asked byerson if Megan had killed her mother and sister then that would mean a brutal
01:44:10
killer was free to kill again during all those months all I can say to that is we
01:44:16
kept an eye on her we knew where she was prosecutors in Virginia convened a grand
01:44:22
jury to to look at the evidence and decide whether Megan should be charged investigators had to wait for documents
01:44:31
forensic accountants had to comb through layers of Records which also delayed any
01:44:38
possible indictment all of those investigative steps took almost a year and four months
01:44:45
before we had everything back and we got the okay to indict her for those two murders Megan's borrowed time was coming
01:44:53
to an end detective byerson and a team of officers made the three-hour drive from
01:45:01
the DC area to morgant town we all went up there Megan haran that morning dropped her daughter off at
01:45:09
school and once she left school grounds we had a local officer uh conduct a traffic stop on her and she was arrested
01:45:18
detective byon and Megan came face to face again what did you see in her eyes nothing
01:45:26
when I look at Megan um I don't see much behind behind those eyes it's kind of empty to me she
01:45:35
has no remorse for what she did at all Megan was taken to a local police station in West Virginia for another
01:45:43
interview before she was brought back to Northern Virginia that same day the Fairfax
01:45:50
County Police Department updated the public at a news conference for the first time since they called the
01:45:57
killings a murder suicide we did arrest 35-year-old Megan haran in West Virginia
01:46:03
this morning for the murders of her mom Pamela haran and sister Helen haran July
01:46:08
14th 2017 in mlan understandably reporters had questions could I ask them why you
01:46:16
didn't put out another directive uh to the public that it was a double murder because our community had so many
01:46:23
questions they were told it was a murder of suicide and then you know you all knew it was double murder all along do
01:46:28
you not think maybe the public should have been informed of that yeah so we always drive to inform our community um
01:46:34
this case in particular we we'll we'll always debrief what we did and why we did it um I I will say an investigative
01:46:41
strategy is to find the person that's responsible for double murder uh is is a is of utmost
01:46:49
importance the fact that cops had waited so long long made Megan's friend Rebecca
01:46:55
wolf skeptical that they had a strong case why'd you wait 18 months to arrest her Rebecca learned Megan had been
01:47:02
arrested while she was listening to the radio on her way home from yoga I never in a million years saw this coming and I
01:47:10
heard that name and thank God I was turning into my road at that point because I probably would have wrecked
01:47:19
cuz I just immediately started balling she thought this had to be a mistake after the arrest Rebecca traveled to be
01:47:27
at Megan's trial and the hargens they had to face the possibility that Megan might have pinned the murders on her
01:47:36
sister Helen and why then did Helen have to die I think Helen knew what happened I
01:47:45
mean I will never understand I don't think in in any capacity why it is that Megan went upstairs and told her that
01:47:55
she had shot their mother I have no idea why she did that I can only assume that at some
01:48:01
point after telling her that she realized that was probably not a great [Music] idea from 48 hours this is blood is
01:48:23
thicker the haran family killings Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48 Hours original reporting by 48 Hours
01:48:33
producers Josh joerger Sarah elely Holz Michelle sagona and Lauren white Jamie Benson is the senior producer for
01:48:42
Paramount audio and Mara walls is the senior story editor recording assistants from Alan Pang and Marlin
01:48:51
polycarp special thanks to paramont podcast vice president Megan Marcus and 48 Hours senior producer Peter
01:49:00
schwitzer blood is thicker is produced by Sony Music Entertainment it was written and
01:49:07
produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are Katherine St Louis and Jonathan
01:49:15
Hirsch our associate producer is Zoe kulen theme and original music composed by hansdale she he also soundd designed
01:49:25
and mixed the episodes we also use music by Blue Dot sessions Katherine nuhan is
01:49:32
our fact Checker our production managers are Tama balance kassi and Samantha Allison I'm Peter vanat if you're
01:49:42
enjoying the show be sure to rate and review it helps more people find it and here our reporting for early and adree
01:49:51
access to blood is thicker subscribe to 48 hours plus on Apple podcast or wry Plus on the wry app start
01:50:00
your free trial today thanks for [Music] listening this episode contains graphic
01:50:14
audio and references to self harm and Family Violence please listen with care I think that she is is
01:50:23
contemplating how to murder her family that night and she wants to do that for what purpose the sole purpose of greed
01:50:34
money when detective Brian byerson first walked through the crime scene on Dean Drive in mlan Virginia he saw a maob
01:50:43
jigsaw puzzle and he wasn't yet sure how the bloody pieces fit together but now nearly 16 months after the the shootings
01:50:53
he was ready to make an arrest detective byerson told me he believed Megan started plotting the murders after her
01:51:01
first failed attempt to wire money from her mother's account and it may have all
01:51:08
come down to as strange as it may seem her mother's cell phone that's how Petty this whole thing
01:51:17
is she knows that she has to have her mother's cell phone because she has to answer that phone and she has to
01:51:25
regurgitate a security number that they're going to give her on that cell phone and in order for her to get that
01:51:30
phone she's going to have to kill her mom that petty that petty but what about Helen what motivated Megan to also shoot
01:51:41
her youngest sister perhaps it was to eliminate a witness even if it was her own flesh and blood I think Helen knew
01:51:51
what happened I mean I will'll never understand I don't think in in any capacity why it is that Megan went
01:52:00
upstairs and told her that she had shot their mother I have no idea why she did that I can only assume that at some
01:52:08
point after telling her that she realized that was probably not a great idea and realized that the only way out
01:52:15
for her was to Stage this scene as if Helen had killed Pamela and then took her own life so she could just walk away
01:52:22
and she'd get the money as she thought and then everybody would just blame Helen two lives a sister a mother a
01:52:30
family destroyed to buy a house all for a house in fact when Megan finally went on trial in
01:52:39
2022 that's the story prosecutors plan to tell the eldest of three daughters wanted her mother to buy her a house
01:52:48
when she didn't get her way she chose to kill her mother then kill and frame her youngest sister it's
01:52:56
just an immeasurable grief and tragedy all the way around Megan's defense team embraced the
01:53:07
theory that Helen was most likely the murderer they said there was a way she could have killed herself with that long
01:53:15
rifle using her foot in fact an expert for the prosecution had given Megan's lawyers an opening it's possible for a
01:53:26
person to use their toe to engage the trigger that is certainly possible and that claim would change the course of
01:53:35
the [Music] trial I'm Peter Van Sant from 48 hours this is blood is thicker the haran
01:53:48
family killings episode 5 toe on the trigger I've never seen a case like this and how would you characterize it
01:54:04
particularly deliberate willful and cruel Tyler basilla served as lead prosecutor on Megan haran's case this is
01:54:13
an individual who murdered two of her closest family members for money and for no other reason basilla and his
01:54:20
co-counsel plan to tell the jury the story of a calculating killer I'm telling them the facts and showing them
01:54:28
that we're going to demonstrate over the next several weeks that every shred of evidence shows that Megan haran was the
01:54:33
one who committed these murders and she did it for greed and it's not Helen haran Helen haran was an innocent 24y
01:54:39
old girl having a normal day the prosecution laid out how it believes Megan murdered Helen then
01:54:48
showed how it believes Megan tried to frame her sister as the killer there was no evidence that Helen had done any of
01:54:55
those things and all the evidence was that Megan did remember to make police think Helen was suicidal Megan had said
01:55:02
Helen was depressed and under the spell of a bad boyfriend she had also given officers a motive for murder that Helen
01:55:12
was angry with her mom for cancelling a contract on a new house in Aldi Virginia
01:55:19
but prosecutors asserted that none of it was true it was all just a smoke screen
01:55:26
there was no evidence that the house was being canceled in fact they had an appointment for 2 days later to go meet
01:55:31
with the blinds guy when you talk to the real estate agent the real estate agent
01:55:34
says there's a whole process you have to go through to stop the purchase of a house they had never once initiated that
01:55:40
prosecutors also countered Megan's character attacks on Helen and her boyfriend Carlos gutier there was no
01:55:48
evidence of drugs whatsoever there was no evidence that Carlos was was bad to hel if anything he seemed like a very
01:55:53
loving guy Carlos played a key role at the trial testifying for the prosecution he was very emotional even before he
01:56:02
walked in the courtroom he was emotional during his entire testimony especially when he had to talk about Helen um this
01:56:07
is not something he has gotten over I mean this is stuck with him while the court did not release
01:56:14
audio we have reviewed Court transcripts and 48 Hours producers attended some of
01:56:21
the trial Carlos was emphatic that Helen was not suicidal not when he spoke to her the morning she died not ever she
01:56:32
was not a person that was plotting a murder thinking her life was was ready to kill herself Carlos said that Helen
01:56:38
was scared and that she told him Megan confessed the unthinkable shooting the woman who gave her life and loving
01:56:46
support in Cold Blood he's an eyewitness without his eyes but through his ears and he was sort of there through Helen's
01:56:54
words Whitney Gregory was co-counsel for the prosecution she said that Carlos was
01:57:01
genuinely heartbroken on the stand the intangibles of him just crying staring down Megan it was there's no way he was
01:57:10
acting and just that raw emotion showed that there's no way that Helen could have done this Carlos's emotional
01:57:17
testimony was followed by another compelling Witness after initially defending her sister
01:57:25
Megan Ashley haran agreed to testify against her for the prosecution she was the middle sister by
01:57:34
birth and caught in the middle by this tragedy between two sisters she had always loved Ashley presents herself
01:57:43
very stoically she's very strong independent but she's grieving in a way that none of us have ever experienced
01:57:52
and I think because she comes off so stoically people may think she's not as upset as she really is adding to the
01:57:59
stress of her testimony was the fact that Ashley was pregnant with her first child when she testified she was eight
01:58:07
almost 9 months pregnant and she kept her composure with one exception she got very te eyed when I showed her an
01:58:15
autopsy photo of her mom and sister but she's grieving like anyone would so for Ashley haran one day she's having lunch
01:58:24
with Mom and her niece and getting Snapchats from her sister and the next day her entire family is either murdered
01:58:33
or suspected of murder mean she lost everything in in a [Music] day at trial Ashley strongly defended
01:58:43
her sister Helen but as you'll recall back when she was initially interviewed by detective Brian byerson Ashley
01:58:51
suggested Helen might have been the killer prosecutors said that Ashley had been in shock and was simply paring what
01:59:00
she had been told by her big sister Megan out of all the family members is the only one that ever suggests Helen
01:59:07
did this because mom was going to pull the house no one in the rest of the family had ever heard that they never
01:59:11
even suggested it it's important because and Helen always talked to her sister Ashley and Ashley would have known this
01:59:17
Ashley would absolutely known yeah because Ashley was close with Pam Pamela was actually visiting Ashley the day
01:59:23
before the murders she was around when K Owen called and said hey someone tried to take all this money out of your
01:59:29
account Ashley knew that that all the stuff Megan saying's not true in cross-examination the defense
01:59:38
attacked Ashley's credibility accusing her of lying out of self-interest they claimed Ashley wanted
01:59:46
the money from Pamela's estate all to herself and if Megan took the fall all Ashley would inherit Millions she has to
01:59:56
grieve the loss of her family grapple with the fact that her sister is a murderer and then be targeted for
02:00:04
somehow wanting all this estate and that's why she's blaming Megan but it turns out Ashley had a very good reason
02:00:12
for her change of heart according to the prosecution she had listened to the Capital One calls of Megan impersonating
02:00:21
their mother she knew 100% through the evidence and in her gut that Megan is the killer so
02:00:27
she testified for us testified factually and I think it was very powerful for the
02:00:33
jury to see that Ashley believed in her heart and through the evidence that Megan did this heinous
02:00:39
act [Music] when Ashley haran was on the stand Megan's defense attorneys played her
02:00:57
recordings of what she previously told police long before she knew the facts of the case when was the last time that
02:01:06
Helen had ever talked about hurting herself with me it was probably last year I want to say this call between
02:01:16
Ashley and detective Brian berson was recorded 5 days after the the killings did you know that there was your mom
02:01:25
was um financially supporting the the buying of the house with Megan I knew that she was not not afterwards but
02:01:37
right right I knew that she was going to be helping them with purchasing a house
02:01:40
yes okay and she'd agreed with all that mhm in this conversation before she heard the Capital One calls Ashley
02:01:48
backed up Megan's story you didn't know how much your mom was giving her but you
02:01:53
knew that she was helping her out right for the house for the house yes however on this stand Ashley claimed to not
02:02:01
recall these conversations 48 Hours consultant and criminal defense expert Matt troano
02:02:08
reviewed her testimony so it's my understanding Peter that during Ashley's cross-examination she says 150 times
02:02:18
thereabouts that she doesn't remember certain things and that's a lot of times to forget what you said there's two ways
02:02:26
to look at that number one is that she doesn't remember right number two is that she doesn't want to say things that
02:02:33
are not helpful for the prosecution that she has an interest vested interest financial interest emotional interest in
02:02:42
protecting her mother and her sister Helen and that she is not going to be cooperative the defense tried to use
02:02:50
Ashley's memory lapses in their favor all they needed to do was so doubt that Megan was the killer it's not the job of
02:03:01
the jury to answer the question of who did it the job of the jury is to determine if the state the prosecution
02:03:12
has proven the case Beyond A Reasonable [Music] Doubt and Megan's lawyers zeroed in on
02:03:21
other curious some might say baffling facts remember Helen didn't try to escape the haran home even after her
02:03:30
mother had been shot and her sister had confessed to The Killing Helen didn't even call
02:03:37
911 and Carlos testified that she also asked him not to report anything here's Matt troano again she actually says
02:03:47
don't don't call 911 as I understand it the question is why why why would that ever be reasonable what is the
02:03:55
reasonable explanation for Helen to not want to get help I asked detective berson that same question that is one of
02:04:05
the pieces to the puzzle that we'll never have we don't know why she didn't call 911 we don't know why she didn't
02:04:09
leave but prosecutor Whitney Gregory offered a potential answer perhaps Helen was trying to protect Molly Megan's
02:04:20
daughter I think it could be survival mentality she believes that Molly's in the other room if Megan's capable of
02:04:26
killing her own mother who else is she capable of killing in the home so I think in part it's just she couldn't
02:04:31
wrap her hand around what happened and also to just trying to protect herself and other survivors in the household but
02:04:38
Helen at this point is not a 12-year-old she's a University graduate two two degrees a very bright woman and she
02:04:45
tells Carlos I can hear my mother gurgling downstairs and she doesn't call 911 to
02:04:52
get medical help for her mom that makes no sense she also is in the home with a craze Maniac with a gun and so I think
02:04:59
she's barricading herself in a bathroom she doesn't know what to do she panics prosecutors hope to convince jurors how
02:05:07
the crime scene clearly indicated Megan killed Helen that Helen didn't pull the trigger herself but then the trial took
02:05:17
an unexpected turn a witness for the prosecution can eded there was one possible way Helen could have taken her
02:05:26
own life Matt trano said the defense saw an opening the critical question is could it have been done if it is
02:05:38
impossible to do it that's one thing if it is implausible that's a different thing
02:05:46
[Music] in the second week of the trial the prosecution and defense focused on one
02:05:59
critical question was it possible that Helen could have first killed her mother and then herself with a long rifle the
02:06:08
Fatal bullet had traveled from a wound at the top of her head downward which seemed physically
02:06:16
impossible the prosecution called Iris delig graph to the stand I'm a forensic specialist and I was
02:06:24
hired to look into a reconstruction of the events that happened when Helen haran died in the bathroom one of the
02:06:31
first things I do is I look to the autopsy what do we know from the autopsy that's fact Beyond change in this case
02:06:39
she had an entry wound through the bone at the top of her head and an an exit in
02:06:44
the lower part of the cranium going down into the right neck with that kind of wound graph didn't think it was likely
02:06:51
that shot herself top of the head is usually a sign that something else is happening someone else is in that room
02:06:58
certainly for a downward to the top of the head yes graph said she tested several scenarios and showed me her
02:07:06
digital reconstructions of the crime scene this is a uh forensic animation a virtual model that is a depiction of the
02:07:17
data the jury was not allowed to see graph's reconstructions in court but they mostly challenged the idea that
02:07:25
Helen died by Suicide since the autopsy revealed the bullet entered the top of her head graph tested all the ways Helen
02:07:34
could have pointed the rifle and still reach the trigger in most scenarios Helen's fingers couldn't reach fully
02:07:43
extended we still need another five inches so she's five inches short of reaching the trigger if the gun was held
02:07:50
at this angle and based just on my experience and covering a lot of these cases I've never seen a
02:07:56
suicide with a weapon a rifle plac on someone's head by themselves like this have you uh not with this particular
02:08:03
trajectory but there was one scenario where graph found Helen could have reached the trigger using her
02:08:12
toe people have done that use like their toe to engage the trigger that has been
02:08:18
done yes okay try to imagine this for a moment in graph's digital reconstruction
02:08:25
Helen is sitting on the toilet leaning forward so that the top of her head is against the Gun Barrel in that scenario
02:08:34
Helen could have used her toe to pull the trigger yes her legs are long enough that her toe could reach the trigger but
02:08:43
what do you think of this scenario basically you're standing on your head to try to to get to this position which
02:08:50
makes it very difficult to find the trigger and the other thing is that you're leaning so far forward that your
02:08:55
center of gravity is over the floor not over the toilet seat which you could fall down exactly she conceded this
02:09:03
scenario is technically possible but graph didn't think Helen killed herself someone else has to engage the trigger
02:09:12
so this is a homicide not suicide in your opinion this would be homicide yet graphs finding that Helen's legs were
02:09:20
long enough to reach the the trigger raised enough doubt that the defense made it part of their argument only a
02:09:28
producer of a movie could come up with this and even then I don't think an audience would even buy that even in
02:09:34
Hollywood prosecutor Whitney Gregory was not convinced and she didn't think anyone else would buy the tow trigger
02:09:42
Theory it's utterly nonsensical for several reasons the defense attorneys even discussed how Helen socks could
02:09:51
have prevented her from leaving Prince on the trigger I asked prosecutor Tyler basilla about the theory I mean I
02:09:59
thought it was ridiculous I'll tell you this that in combination with them using
02:10:03
the word framed that Helen framed her sister to me meant that they didn't have a defense at all because if you frame
02:10:09
somebody this isn't the way you do it but remember all the defense needed to do was convince one juror that there was
02:10:17
reasonable doubt that Megan haran was the murderer for her part Megan chose not to take the
02:10:26
stand and defend herself the jury deliberated on Thursday March 24th 2022 took off Friday and returned a
02:10:36
verdict that following Monday guilty on all four charges so first degree of Pamela first degree of Helen and then
02:10:45
the two Associated firearm the commission of the felony charges and how could how did Megan react to the
02:10:51
verdict at least for me as a prosecutor I don't want to look over at that table I think it's not very classy I'm just
02:10:57
sort of In the Zone trying not to pass out detective Brian byerson who had been working this case from the very
02:11:04
beginning was also in the courtroom there's some relief there when that verdict is
02:11:10
read uh but more so there's a sense of uh I think weight lifted off of Everybody uh I know that it was very
02:11:18
emotional for Ashley haran sitting in there listening to that the jury recommended two life
02:11:25
sentences a mlan woman could be headed to prison for the rest of her life for killing her mother and her sister jurors
02:11:32
found Megan haran guilty of the murders and staging the crime scene to look like
02:11:37
it was a murder suicide but the Saga over whether Megan haran killed her mother and sister wasn't over not yet
02:11:47
that argument about Helen using her toe on the trigger caused one juror to go Rogue and what she did next would put
02:11:56
the verdict and the entire case in Jeopardy that's next time on the finale of blood is
02:12:08
thicker from 48 hours this is blood is thicker the haran family killings Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48
02:12:19
Hours original reporting by 48 Hours producers Josh joerger Sarah elely Holz Michelle sagona and Lauren white Jamie
02:12:29
Benson is the senior producer for paramont audio and Mara walls is the senior story editor recording assistants
02:12:38
from Alan Pang and Marlin polycarp special thanks to paramont podcast vice president Megan Marcus and
02:12:46
48 Hours senior producer Peter schwitzer blood is thicker is produced by Sony Music
02:12:54
Entertainment it was written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are
02:13:01
Katherine St Louis and Jonathan Hirsch our associate producer is Zoe kulen theme and original music composed
02:13:11
by hansdale shei he also soundd designed and mixed the episodes we also use music
02:13:18
by Blue Dot sessions Katherine Newan is our fact Checker our production managers are
02:13:25
tamaa balance kassi and Samantha Allison I'm Peter vanand if you're enjoying the show be sure to rate and
02:13:34
review it helps more people find it and here our reporting you can listen to blood is thicker the haran family
02:13:42
killings early and AD free right now by joining wry Plus in the wry app or on Apple podcast
02:13:51
thanks for [Music] listening anytime we were sitting and awaiting a verdict from a jury is a
02:14:07
little bit nerve-wracking detective Brian berson anxiously waited in the hallway at the
02:14:14
Fairfax County Courthouse while jurors considered Megan haran's fate you know never really know what a jury's thinking
02:14:24
during the trial detective byerson says he rarely knows what is happening inside
02:14:30
the courtroom as a witness he is forbidden from hearing other testimony until it's time for closing arguments I
02:14:38
can't talk to the other Witnesses so I end up just sitting in the hallway or sitting in a conference room by myself
02:14:45
and just kind of wondering for weeks you know I hope it's going well berson says
02:14:50
he's spends hours studying people's faces as they go in and out of court he'll notice whether prosecutors walk by
02:14:59
in a good mood or if a witness seems upset after they testify but outside of those glimpses
02:15:07
byerson doesn't have any other idea how a trial is going including the case against Megan haran juries can be funny
02:15:17
and of course detective byon was hoping that when the jurors heard all the evidence laid out they'd convict Megan
02:15:26
I've always thought that once you explain this to anybody they generally at the end go oh yeah she absolutely did
02:15:31
this it's it's clear as day right but you don't know what's going on behind those closed doors with the
02:15:39
jury after 3 weeks of testimony and two days of jury deliberations detective byerson could finally exhale Megan haran
02:15:50
was found guilty a first-degree murder for killing her mother and youngest sister it's like an emotional rush I
02:15:57
mean you feel you feel good I remember feeling like the jury understood what happened
02:16:04
here a mlan woman could be headed to prison for the rest of her life for killing her mother and her sister jurors
02:16:12
found Megan haran guilty of the murders and staging the crime scene to look like
02:16:17
it was a murder suicide detective byerson thought thought it was all over except for the
02:16:23
sentencing he was wrong a wrench or perhaps a sledgehammer got thrown into the proceedings after Megan's conviction the
02:16:33
defense alerted the judge that they had discovered juror misconduct a woman on the jury allegedly had gone Rogue one of
02:16:43
the jurors had volunteered that they had done an experiment jurors are supposed to stick
02:16:51
with what they're told in court not reenact a crime scene on their own so the judge made a
02:16:58
decision uh to vacate the the jury verdict and told us that we would have to retry Megan haran it was anyone's
02:17:08
guess whether the second jury would agree with the first I'm Peter Van Sant from 48 hours
02:17:19
this is the finale of blood is thicker the haran family killings episode 6 the aftermath throughout this podcast one
02:17:36
man has known the case best detective Brian byerson the detectives in the family are the only ones that have been
02:17:43
dealing with it since day one byerson started with the Fairfax County Police Department about two
02:17:50
decades ago he's worked homicides for nearly 10 years and he spent six of those years
02:17:57
regularly talking to Megan's sister Ashley haran at times he said they spoke nearly every week there is a very small
02:18:07
group of people in the world that have been intimately involved in these murder cases where they are like a
02:18:15
direct victim of what happened and in this case it's so much worse because the perpetrator of these
02:18:22
crimes is also a member of your family victim's families say byerson brings a calmness to dark situations he
02:18:31
gives his time freely to suffering family members like Ashley after all the hargan murders are
02:18:38
just one of many he's assigned with at any given time we can only cherish these wins for a short amount of time because
02:18:47
we live in tragedy berson understands he's the person who likely knows the most about what happened to their loved
02:18:55
one he thinks it's part of his job to be there we're available to these families
02:19:02
24 hours a day even to this day and so detective byerson was there when the judge decided Megan and what was left of
02:19:12
the family she helped to destroy would have to relive all that pain a second time
02:19:22
you might not know this but after a verdict defense attorneys and prosecutors often reach out to jurors to
02:19:29
find out what they could have done better detective byerson does it too you always want to know afterwards hey what
02:19:38
did we do that you guys thought was important or do you guys have any questions in general about anything that
02:19:45
happened um sort of trying to gauge them to see how do we do a better job in the
02:19:49
next trial but after Megan's first trial when her attorneys pulled jurors one of
02:19:55
them volunteered that she had done an experiment outside of the Jury Room at home sort of a
02:20:03
reenactment to try to figure out if um one of the theories presented by the defense was uh was possible in fact that
02:20:14
juror had tried to test whether Helen could have used her toe to push the trigger of a long rifle here's 48 Hours
02:20:22
producer Michelle sigona I have personally not had very many cases over my career where there's been juror
02:20:30
misconduct this isn't something that I have personally seen it happens but generally there's some sort of
02:20:38
conclusion someone is found guilty or not guilty byerson told us how the juror's admission set off a chain of
02:20:45
events the defense then uh notified us about this the judge did exactly what he should have done and that is just vacate
02:20:54
the ruling detective byerson was at that hearing he understood why the judge decided to throw out the first verdict
02:21:03
against Megan haran and as difficult as that was to explain to the surviving sister that we would have to do this
02:21:10
whole thing over again byon remembered sitting in a room at the courthouse with Ashley to talk through what the judge's
02:21:18
decision meant I mean we we sat down as a group after that hearing myself and our wonderful uh victim Services
02:21:26
representative who was working alongside me with Ashley for the entirety of the of this journey and the prosecutors and
02:21:33
we all had a uh conversation during their meeting detective byerson thought Ashley seemed to take the news okay I
02:21:43
would say that she took it better than I thought uh she would I mean the mood was
02:21:48
not good that that was the expectation going in there was that I mean we were not happy
02:21:55
with what happened with that juror but that being said I I could not argue with the ruling
02:22:04
and in a way byerson realized this decision by the judge would be a blessing in disguise if the judge hadn't
02:22:12
vacated the first verdict byerson thought Megan's lawyers surely would have tried to appeal the verdict after
02:22:19
they discovered this jur misconduct but that appeal would have taken a long time years to work its way
02:22:27
through the courts at least in this case Megan could be tried again more quickly
02:22:34
I think what the judge was doing was basically saying there's a likelihood that this will be overturned based on
02:22:41
the conduct of the juror so instead of just wasting all of that time I'm just going to say From the
02:22:48
Bench here that I'm vacating at his meeting with Ashley her father Steve and the prosecutors byerson said
02:22:57
they immediately started strategizing about the next trial Ashley understood that as difficult as that was I think
02:23:06
for her she understood what happened and she was very very steadfast in her cooperation and her intention
02:23:18
to help us out and be a ailable for whatever we needed to go through this whole thing again prosecutors and
02:23:25
detective byerson saw an opportunity to hone their arguments for the second trial that meant going back through the
02:23:34
witness list and trying to figure out hey do we want to approach this in the exact same way with the exact same
02:23:40
Witnesses with the exact same lineup as we did the first time or do we want to change some things around which we
02:23:46
ultimately decided to do between trials Megan stayed locked up Megan was never released from uh from custody or
02:23:56
anything like that she was held Megan's next trial wouldn't happen until September
02:24:02
2023 almost a year after her first verdict was thrown out during this time Michelle sagona said she thought about
02:24:10
Megan's Daughter Molly I think about the little girl in all of this who has lost
02:24:17
her grandmother lost her aunt essentially lost her mother I think about the victim's loved ones while the
02:24:24
prosecution had a plan berson still worried about how a new jury would interpret the evidence even though our
02:24:33
conviction rate is is very very good here in Fairfax you never really know what a jury's
02:24:45
thinking summer was nearing its end in 2023 when the second trial against Megan haran began it went a bit quicker
02:24:55
because this time they left one key witness out we did not call Ashley to testify which was different than the
02:25:03
first trial in the first trial the defense accused Ashley of lying and plotting to
02:25:10
put Megan behind bars so that she could inherit their mother's entire estate they also focused on Ashley's inability
02:25:19
to remember some details the first time was sort of based around some things that she didn't
02:25:26
recall um and and they spent they spent a lot of time on sort of roughing her up
02:25:32
a little bit because she couldn't recall some things Ashley wouldn't have to suffer through another difficult
02:25:38
cross-examination if she never took the stand it just really wasn't worth it to put her up there and put her through
02:25:47
sort of a rigorous cross-examination uh like that happen in the first trial especially when Helen's boyfriend Carlos
02:25:54
Gutierrez could testify to a lot of the same evidence that Ashley had shared the
02:26:00
first time around plus detective byerson said he and the prosecutors thought the
02:26:05
new plan might surprise the defense we just kind of decided yeah we're going to keep her subpoena or
02:26:13
whatever and then we can use her if we if we absolutely need to or we can use her later on as a btle witness byerson
02:26:22
admires Ashley for everything she has endured she's one of the strongest people I've ever met in my life she was
02:26:29
there every day she came in she dealt with testimony and then just like us she sat and waited for that verdict byerson
02:26:36
said that his testimony didn't really change from the first trial to the second the way I look at it is all I'm
02:26:43
talking about is is basically facts right cuz I'm not I'm not up there I'm not going to be able to offer my opinion
02:26:50
on anything or what I think none of that stuff matters right detective berson focused on the Capital One calls and the
02:26:59
4 and a half hour interview Megan gave him by then he'd come to see that long police interview in a different light
02:27:07
she was demanding an update on where we were with the case which is you know in hindsight is very interesting right she
02:27:13
really wanted to know you know what we were doing Megan sometimes had a hard time keeping her story straight but
02:27:21
detective byerson now thinks during that long interview she was really trying to
02:27:27
figure out how to get away with murder I mean she's a she's a sociopath I think she's always thought that she could talk
02:27:34
her way out of anything or she you know she could explain her way out of all of this stuff the prosecutors weren't sure
02:27:40
whether Megan would testify in her own defense that's why they kept Ashley's possible testimony in their back pocket
02:27:49
if something comes out that we we specifically need her to rebut especially if her sister ends up taking
02:27:55
the stand or something like that but Megan never testified so we just we ultimately didn't call
02:28:02
her however Carlos did have to fly to Virginia from Texas to take the stand again detective byerson knew revisiting
02:28:12
that awful day when the love of his life died wouldn't be easy I've talked to Carlos a lot Carlos
02:28:21
is a is a good guy this has this has affected him uh tremendously the loss of his of Helen and the way it happened and
02:28:29
and sort of cuz you got to remember you know he he was basically the last person
02:28:35
that she ever talked to and she not only talked to but she was telling him what was going on in real time so he's got
02:28:43
that burden on him for the rest of his life which I think is difficult to handle it's a burden he eloquently and
02:28:50
emotionally shared with the jurors making him a crucial witness because he's the one that gets
02:28:58
in all of that conversation from that morning and the weird things that were going on that morning like you know
02:29:05
Megan answering Helen's phone detective byerson said Carlos struggled to even get through the second trial he flew in
02:29:13
from Texas for both trials and I'm positive he didn't want to especially after after that time goes and stuff and
02:29:20
now we're asking you hey you know I I'm really sorry but a juror did something you know that that is making
02:29:27
us have have to have to do this whole thing over again can you please come back out and bear your soul on the stand
02:29:35
again but he did it ultimately he said that continuing to discuss the murders was too difficult and he didn't want to
02:29:43
do an interview but berson said one thing was clear I think he truly loved Helen after the defense chose not to
02:29:54
have Megan testify her fate was once again in the hands of a jury for me personally when you're sitting there and
02:30:03
you you get the call that hey there's a verdict and you come back in the courtroom and you sit down and you're
02:30:09
waiting like that that 10 minutes for everybody to get back including the defense and then and you know the the
02:30:16
defendant and then the jury to sort of come out and and read that uh verdict the second jury
02:30:25
agreed with the first Megan haran was found guilty again of killing her sister Helen and her mother
02:30:35
Pamela and then there's kind of like this emotional relief that's taken off your shoulders because especially like
02:30:43
for for for the detectives and and the family who have been dealing with this since day one at at this point detective
02:30:51
byerson knew the haran family inside and out you develop these bonds with these with these victims because you talk you
02:31:00
know weakly in their conversations berson said that Ashley talked about her niece Megan's Daughter Molly Ashley was
02:31:10
worried at the time of the murders Molly was eight and back then she too had to be interviewed by police we had asked
02:31:19
asked that Megan not be involved in bringing Molly to the forensic interview site the safe spot is that's who we use
02:31:28
to do those interviews they specialize in traumatic interviews of children Megan brought her daughter to that
02:31:33
interview which was not helpful and she also interrupted the interview on several occasions losing her grandmother
02:31:41
Pamela was devastating for Molly she'd spent nearly every day of her young life living with her grandma remember soon
02:31:50
after the shootings Molly's parents moved her out of state she lived with them until her mother's arrest now
02:31:57
Molly's going back to live with her dad who she hadn't ever lived with before and is taken away from the rest of that
02:32:04
family that was taken care of her the hargens had already suffered the worst betrayal a daughter shooting her mother
02:32:12
and then putting a bullet into her youngest sister's head and why for money and Molly detective byerson says she was
02:32:23
left heartbroken and Confused in a lot of the phone calls after this happened it was very evident to us that her
02:32:31
daughter had no idea where she was she certainly didn't know that Mom went to jail Megan haran was sentenced at the
02:32:40
start of 2024 a Fairfax County woman was hit with two consecutive life sentences
02:32:46
after she was convicted of killing her mother and her younger sister and then telling police it was a murder
02:32:52
suicide both Ashley and Carlos came to the sentencing it's strange now to think back to 2017 and the phone call when
02:33:02
they first spoke when Carlos called Ashley to tell her shots had been fired at her mother's
02:33:09
house and to reveal what Helen had told him that Megan had killed her mother back then Ashley wasn't sure what to
02:33:18
believe every single emotion right now hearing about this finding out about this from Helen's piece of [ __ ]
02:33:26
boyfriend but now they both sat United in grief at the Fairfax County Courthouse waiting to hear how long
02:33:35
Megan would spend Behind Bars more than six years later this case finally comes to a close 48 Hours
02:33:47
producer Michelle sigona Can't Stop thinking about the hargens and where they will go from here this will
02:33:55
obviously go on uh this doesn't end the the pain and the anguish I I don't want to speak for them but I can't imagine
02:34:05
ends for the family especially for for this little girl for for Megan's child we learn that Steve and Ashley haran no
02:34:14
longer have contact with Molly as it turns out soon after hearing hearing those Capital One calls Ashley did two
02:34:23
things she cooperated with police on their investigation and she started seeing if she could get custody of Molly
02:34:31
from Megan and her husband at the first trial Ashley testified that she didn't feel comfortable with Molly living with
02:34:39
Megan in West Virginia according to Ashley in her own word she wanted to take custody of her because she knew she
02:34:47
could give her the home that Molly deserved essentially and which she said quote I could give her a loving and
02:34:54
caring home and yeah she's an amazing little girl end quote Ashley had stopped trusting her sister and perhaps by
02:35:03
extension her husband too Ashley was in fear for Molly being in a situation or in a home with Megan and her husband and
02:35:13
that's why according to court testimony Ashley went forward and applied for for custody she wanted to to protect Molly
02:35:21
as best as she could but Ashley's attempts to get custody failed and after Megan's arrest
02:35:30
her husband Frank stopped allowing Molly to call Ashley or her Grandpa they are now estranged here's detective Brian
02:35:40
berson for Ashley not only does she lose her mom and her sister but effectively she loses her other sister as well in
02:35:48
the process and she's left compl completely you know by herself she was an aunt to Megan's daughter and saw her
02:35:57
consistently and after this happened all of that stuff was cut off Steve haran asked to get visitation rights as a
02:36:05
grandparent but was denied Megan's husband at the time just totally cut off communication between their daughter and
02:36:14
and that side of the family Frank hung up on us when we called him for comment Frank has been such a mystery in this
02:36:23
story Frank didn't testify in either trial nor has he kept in touch with detectives here's byerson he answered
02:36:32
some questions that we had in the beginning of this stuff and then he you know he just he sort of just disappeared
02:36:37
you know it seems like he just didn't want to deal with this byerson said he questioned Frank but never got all the
02:36:45
answers I've always thought about it like this if I'm sitting personally if I'm sitting in a realtor's
02:36:53
office and I'm going to buy a home with my wife and my wife sends me a bank statement that would indicate that we
02:37:00
had half a million dollars in the bank I would have several questions about that
02:37:06
he seemed to have none Frank was never charged with anything connected to the house or Helen and Pamela's murders and
02:37:14
detective byerson said they chose not to investigate his involvement further I think anybody looking at this
02:37:22
from like a fair point of view would probably have those same questions that we have
02:37:26
like did you think it was you just thought it was a gift and you never talked to like your mother-in-law about
02:37:32
this this huge gift of a you know it it just it doesn't make any sense Frank was often away on a military
02:37:42
deployment which is why Megan said they didn't live together it was easier to live with her mother and have her help
02:37:50
raise Molly but byerson didn't know what changed in 2017 why all of a sudden did Megan
02:37:59
desperately want to live with her husband as far as we were able to ascertain they never lived together she
02:38:06
always sort of lived with her mom and sort of her mom took care of her and her mom took care of her granddaughter she
02:38:12
was being a doting grandmother and she wanted to make sure that Molly you know had all these nice things in life and
02:38:19
and then at the end of the day that's also taken away from Molly byerson said Megan has never offered her father or
02:38:27
sister more details I don't know that she'll ever give them the satisfaction of explaining to them why she did it
02:38:37
Megan's attorney at the Fairfax County Virginia's public defender office did not respond when we contacted them for
02:38:46
this podcast at the time of sentencing her attorneys claimed they would appeal even today byerson doesn't think Megan
02:38:56
would even admit to her crimes I think if you asked her today she would still say she didn't do it what at this point
02:39:02
24 people have decided that she did uh in two separate trials and you know we're supposed to believe that it's just
02:39:10
a coincidence that the day before in the day of your your family's murder that you're trying to do this crazy wire
02:39:18
transfer for a half million dollar to buy a house in West Virginia byerson knows that even if Megan were to explain
02:39:26
why she shot her mother in Sister it wouldn't do much good to me personally because it's just I know what what they
02:39:34
lost and how they lost it and um the fact that they're still you know putting one foot in front
02:39:41
of the other is is a a testament to them for sure Ashley Never spoke to us for this podcast but Steve haran did go on
02:39:50
the record to offer a simple truth I will forever be devastated that I lost my daughter um
02:40:03
Helen um and it's uh it's something that is has had a profound impact on the family as a
02:40:17
whole and I will I leave it at that I agree with him you don't need a lot of words to sort of explain
02:40:26
something that's not explainable to the majority of the people who are going to hear it byerson has long believed a
02:40:31
Court's decision can bring justice but not closure Helen haran will never marry Carlos or finish grad
02:40:41
school Pamela will never be surrounded by loving children and grandchildren this this this family
02:40:51
violence is sort of the worst of the worst of this because when I think I think when it's a
02:40:57
stranger you can still in your mind kind of put out a bunch of scenarios as to why this happened right but when this
02:41:07
person is a part of your immediate family that does this to another person in your immediate
02:41:14
family with no explanation offered by them other than this Mone there's no closure for them that's that's why I
02:41:22
don't like that word like they they're never going to be the [Music] same from 48 hours this is blood is
02:41:43
thicker the haran family killings Judy Tigard is the executive producer of of 48 Hours original reporting by 48 Hours
02:41:53
producers Josh joerger Sarah elely Holz Michelle sagona and Lauren white Jamie Benson is the senior producer for
02:42:02
paramont audio and Mora walls is the senior story editor recording assistant from Alan Pang and Marlin
02:42:11
polycarp special thanks to Paramount podcast vice president Megan Marcus and 48 Hours senior producer Peter
02:42:20
schwitzer blood is thicker is produced by Sony Music Entertainment it was written and
02:42:27
produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are Katherine St Louis and Jonathan
02:42:35
Hirsch our associate producer is Zoe kulin theme and original music composed by hansdale shei he also soundd designed
02:42:45
and mixed the episodes we also use music by Blue Dot sessions Katherine Newan is
02:42:52
our fact Checker our production managers are tamaa balance kassi and Samantha Allison I'm Peter vanat if you're
02:43:02
enjoying the show be sure to rate and review it helps more people find it and hear our reporting if you liked blood is
02:43:10
thicker check out the rest of our 48 Hours podcast by searching 48 Hours on your favorite podcast app and subscribe
02:43:19
to 48 hours plus on Apple podcasts for adree listening thanks for [Music] listening there were two bodies that
02:43:40
were located inside of this home and that's really all we knew is there a little adrenaline when you're pulling up
02:43:47
always your blood starts to get ped a little bit and you start to think about how this is going to play
02:43:55
out what did you see as you entered this home well it's a very nice home in a great
02:44:02
neighborhood Fairfax County is located just outside of Washington DC it is an an affluent area of Northern Virginia it
02:44:11
was a million-dollar home as you walk through the kitchen you encounter a mudroom that connects the
02:44:19
kitchen to the garage in that mud room we discover Pamela haran how was she positioned on the
02:44:26
ground she was lying face down and she had a blanket laid over her like a quilt her cell phone is actually laying on top
02:44:37
of the quilt and there was a pull of blood coming from the area of her head onto the floor what else do you find we
02:44:45
go upstairs and then we encounter Helen haret inside of the bathroom that's in her
02:44:51
bedroom she appeared to have been sitting on the toilet when she was shock she was fully closed she has some kind
02:44:59
of trauma uh to her head there's a rifle in between her legs she's got a tremendous amount of uh blood in her
02:45:06
mouth finding two deceased persons with one with a gun on their body might have been a murder suicide suicide possibly
02:45:20
what are we looking at here now this is the main room of the basement that set of books for photo albums and I wanted
02:45:26
to see what my victims may have looked like in life Pam haran was a woman in her 60s an
02:45:34
incredibly successful business-minded woman she was generous with her money this is a woman who built an $8 million
02:45:41
estate she poured her life into her family Helen the youngest daughter had returned home from college Helen was the
02:45:52
kind of daughter I think that everybody would want she was lovely she had a number of friends she had a
02:46:01
boyfriend Helen never struck me as having a dark side mother's and daughter's butt heads
02:46:09
I mean did Helen and her mother get along perfectly I don't think so you don't know what goes on behind closed
02:46:14
doors maybe Helen had murdered her mother and then shot herself so what's your gut telling you as you
02:46:22
take a look at these two bodies wait you will make mistakes if you make assumptions before you actually do the
02:46:31
work and so she would have had to have done what to shoot herself in the head that way
02:46:36
magic she would have hadn't done magic it just is impossible [Music] [Music] Friday July 14th
02:47:31
2017 about 5:00 p.m. Fairfax County Virginia police visit the next of kin to deliver awful news 63-year-old Pam haran
02:47:42
and 24-year-old Helen haran are dead Pamela was shot twice in the mud room lead detective Brian byerson says police
02:47:54
are recording and whispering to avoid being overheard when they give Pam's ex-husband Steve more painful details
02:48:03
about Helen she had other shot from the I'm really sorry there was a thought that went
02:48:15
around that it might have been a murder suicide haran soon summons his other two
02:48:22
daughters 32-year-old Ashley and 34-year-old Megan what is happening what happened they react with equal parts
02:48:40
pain and panic oh God what are we going to do Jesus what are we going to do I don't know our mom takes care of
02:48:48
everything yeah I just don't even understand we were at the freaking house Megan haran tells authorities she
02:49:00
and her 8-year-old Daughter Molly have been living with Pam and Helen while her husband is in the military she says
02:49:08
she'd left the home with Molly at about 1:30 p.m. that day adding that there had
02:49:13
been an argument between her mother and Helen who had been upset Helen has been so
02:49:21
angry like just so angry all the time and struggling emotionally I knew H was depressed but like to do this like I
02:49:34
can't wrap my head around this is it true that she once threatened suicide I think that that is possibly true yes in
02:49:43
fact Ashley would later tell authorities Helen had thoughts about self harm I know my sister was depressed has she
02:49:52
ever talked about hurting herself yeah but Megan also suggests her mother and sister could have been attacked by
02:49:59
offering a potentially important clue something she reports she'd seen the day before two suspicious males casing the
02:50:08
neighborhood and she later tells us those particular guys are the reason why she ends up bringing this rifle up to
02:50:16
the main floor of the house if it's the 22 Ruger rifle found with Helen's body and it belongs to Megan's husband she
02:50:24
says her mother had allowed her to stored in the house until the couple moved into their own place in West
02:50:31
Virginia my husband and I literally just closed on our new home yesterday my mom
02:50:38
bought it for us Steve and Pam haran divorced when the children were young Pam took them and
02:50:48
moved around before ending up in pomac Maryland next door to Tammy malos Megan was very upset about the divorce
02:51:00
in the next few years Tammy got to know Megan and her little sister Helen and often saw them across the backyard fence
02:51:09
the girls were out in the yard all the time with the dogs that sort of thing so Tammy says she always knew there was a
02:51:15
sibling rivalry Megan did bring that up a lot saying that Helen was the favorite
02:51:21
but she remembers that for the most part the haran sisters seemed to get along fine Pam was proud of them she talked
02:51:30
highly of her girls whenever I did speak with her pamaran poured her life into those
02:51:36
kids Michelle sagona works for CBS news she's been covering this story for nearly four years and says the other
02:51:44
love of Pam haran's life was her job Pam had spent decades climbing the career ladder to become a vice president of
02:51:52
Aerospace giant loed Martin she had built an $8 million estate but she didn't keep it for herself she was
02:52:01
constantly giving to those around her specifically to her children Helen seemed to have her mother's ambition
02:52:08
double majoring in math and management science at Southern Methodist University in Dallas that's where Aaron Rockne met
02:52:16
her in 2014 when I first met her I was extremely scared of her because she didn't laugh
02:52:23
or smile she's kind of like a onion you have to peel the layers off and you really get to know the kind and genuine
02:52:31
person underneath there Rockne says they became close friends it's been said that
02:52:38
Helen may have suffered from depression did you ever see any of that I did not at
02:52:45
all Rockne says her friend spent a lot of time studying though Helen did have a job at a nearby restaurant she was
02:52:54
working as a waitress there was a 30s something named Carlos Gutierrez working in the restaurant too they fell for each
02:53:02
other in short order and they had plans to move in together ham had started building a
02:53:09
house for Helen in Northern Virginia so in the spring of 2017 Helen had moved back home from Dallas according to
02:53:18
Carlos he hadn't asked her to be his wife but he was working towards that but Megan tells police Pam hadn't approved
02:53:26
of Helen's relationship she believed that Helen was going to try to move Carlos into the
02:53:31
house and my mom didn't want him being there still Helen had been moving ahead planning for the future it was just a
02:53:39
matter of figuring out her career path takes a little while to figure it out but she was going to get there but Helen
02:53:45
haran never got there Fairfax cany police on fire how may I assist you yes have an
02:53:54
emergency on the day of the shooting it was Carlos Gutierrez who had first alerted authorities that something in
02:54:01
the haran house was dreadfully wrong I'm in Dallas Texas and my girlfriend lives
02:54:07
in M he says he and Helen had spoken earlier that morning now he can't get in touch with her and he's worried my
02:54:16
girlfriend won't answer the phone and and I'm thinking my girlfriend's life is in
02:54:22
danger okay sir what I need you to do then is contact your local jurisdiction file a report with them and tell them
02:54:29
that Fairfax County requires a teletype in order to do a welfare check I feel really bad for Carlos because he's
02:54:36
bounced around all over the place just trying to get somebody to listen to the fact that he thinks his girlfriend's
02:54:42
life is in danger I think this is like life or death like I think some might be dead Carlos gutieres would later testify
02:54:49
about why he was so concerned he would also tell a jury he felt authorities were giving him the runaround that day
02:54:57
even when he called back later was something explosive to add something Helen had told him exactly what did your
02:55:05
girlfriend say to you [Laughter] [Music] fact Poli on fire how may I assist you yes have an
02:55:30
emergency it's 1:44 p.m. on July 14th 2017 Carlos Gutierrez Helen's boyfriend in Texas is having a hard time with 911
02:55:41
Dispatchers in Virginia like I think someone let dead right sir contact your local jurisdiction
02:55:49
the report the call ends without a promise of help so 15 minutes later Carlos calls
02:55:57
again police and this time he makes a startling Revelation about something he says Helen had told him on the phone
02:56:05
that morning my girlfriend told me that her sister killed her mom now my girlfriend won't answer her
02:56:16
phone Megan haran had murdered her mother or at least that's what Carlos said Helen had told him okay was this
02:56:23
supped out of the blue your girlfriend is sitting in a house with a dead woman yes why was Carlos who was more than a
02:56:33
th000 miles away calling 911 why didn't Helen call herself what was going on in that
02:56:44
house I reported murder earlier and I have the address address when police arrive around 300
02:56:52
p.m. they find Pam is dead but they discover Helen's body too Carlos had offered authorities a
02:57:01
possible explanation for Pam but Helen was a mystery Megan haran told police something interesting her mother and
02:57:10
sister had been arguing that day this morning my mom let Helen know that she was canceling the contract
02:57:20
on the house she's building her because she truly believed that Helen was going to try to move Carlos into the house and
02:57:27
when middle sister Ashley hears that Carlos is accusing Megan of Murder She makes it clear she doesn't believe him
02:57:34
she would never do that ever never okay Megan haran's friend Rebecca wolf agrees I do not believe that Magan
02:57:45
killed her mom Pam or her sister Helen no piece of me believes that Rebecca and Megan met in 2015 when they both were
02:57:54
volunteering in a program to find homes for dogs rescued from war zones Rebecca says that Megan always had a passion for
02:58:04
Animals she is very compassionate Generous Heart she is just a really good person and Rebecca Says Megan often
02:58:12
talked about her family her generous mother Megan admired Pam's wisdom her career
02:58:18
she always spoke very lovingly of her and her sisters especially the baby of the family Helen Megan talked about
02:58:27
Helen struggling with things and feeling depressed but I never got the impression
02:58:34
that it was insurmountable Rebecca says that Megan called her on the day of the shooting
02:58:42
and sounded like a woman who'd lost everything very distraught and she did not give me details of what had happened
02:58:49
she just said we've lost mom and Helen by 8:00 p.m. police had told the media what they had told the haran family this
02:58:59
looked like a murder suicide but detective byerson says the more he saw of the crime scene the less he thought
02:59:07
so and the more he wanted to take a closer look at Megan haran that night he had officers test her hands for gunshot
02:59:15
residue and photograph her did she become a person of interest at that moment she's certainly a person of
02:59:21
interest because we know that she was in the house police knew the house probably
02:59:26
held answers crime scene detective Julia Elliot who had joined detective byerson
02:59:32
at the scene spent the evening combing for evidence I was shown Pamela's body first one thing that caught her
02:59:41
attention was Pam haran's cell phone it's laying on top of the pool of blood and the blanket was it unusual to see
02:59:49
the cell phone in this kind of position yes it certainly wouldn't fall on top of
02:59:53
the blanket and on top of the blood once you were already covered up and what does it suggest that the cell phone is
02:59:58
lying on top of this comforter that suggests to me that it was placed there by someone Elliot says the Helen hargan
03:00:06
shooting scene was next she had a lot of blood on her face so much blood that it
03:00:14
was impossible to see an entry wound and there was more on the floor but there was a lack of blood where investigators
03:00:21
expected to see it the rifle itself had very little blood on it the rifle was leaning against Helen's body the butt
03:00:30
was on the floor between her legs the barrel was pointed up towards the ceiling you would expect that if the
03:00:37
rifle had been sitting there as she bled so heavily it would also have blood on it and was there anything on this gun
03:00:46
from Megan no what about fingerprints on this rifle none that were usable there was DNA found on the trigger but it
03:00:55
wasn't Megan or Helen's is it true that Helen's DNA was found on the rifle case yes that is true but byerson says only
03:01:05
on the tip of the case Megan's DNA was on the case handles it's part of the reason police believe Helen haran never
03:01:14
touched the gun that day as she died someone else was there to place it on her she says Helen's phone was telling
03:01:22
as well there was almost no blood on it and although Helen had used it that day to talk and text with Carlos there were
03:01:30
no fingerprints either what we found was what looked like swi marks as if someone
03:01:36
had taken their hand and wiped off the front of the screen though it would take time to
03:01:42
learn exactly how the haran women died in the basement Detective Elliot saw an immediate opportunity to learn how they
03:01:51
had lived I got a little uh nosy and I wanted to see what my victims may have looked like in life so I pulled out one
03:01:58
of the center photo albums to look at it and open it up tucked away in that album
03:02:03
a family photos was something that seemed out of place documents Megan's bank statement pams 2o and a spreadsheet
03:02:12
full of passwords and security verification details to unlock all of Pam haran's accounts well that's
03:02:20
interesting were you able to analyze the paper so at the time of us locating that
03:02:26
financial documents were not on our search warrant so Detective Elliot photographed the documents and left them
03:02:33
in the house but when she entered with the proper search warrant days later they were not there they were not
03:02:41
there they were not the house had been returned to the haran family's custody the day after
03:02:47
after the shooting and something else had happened that day the medical examiner delivered her
03:02:55
report on Helen haran's autopsy casting doubt on the murder suicide Theory it tells us that someone
03:03:04
else pulled the trigger [Music] [Music] a police spokesman was calling the haran
03:03:22
shootings a murder suicide but the next day when detective Brian byerson saw Helen's autopsy report
03:03:32
he was certain it was something else the gunshot wound on Helen haran was in the top of her
03:03:40
head the rifle bullet had traveled downward into her neck she would have to hold it straight up and be able to reach
03:03:49
the trigger to accomplish this I've never seen that before and I've worked a lot of murders well what does that tell
03:03:57
you when you when you learn that information it tells us that someone else pulled the
03:04:02
trigger as detective byon arrived to work two days later on Monday July 17th good morning thank you for calling cap
03:04:11
one Bay there was a clue waiting for him a clue that byerson was able to take all
03:04:17
the way way to the bank that Monday morning I have a message on my desk phone from Capital One the bank had some
03:04:25
startling news Bank employees had seen reports of Pam haran's death and wanted him to know about some strange activity
03:04:34
on her account so you tell me your name please Pamela Hansen haran someone claiming to be pamaran had called the
03:04:43
bank the day before the shooting with a request what can I do for today I was told that I could do a wire transfer
03:04:51
whoever it was was trying to transfer money more than $400,000 out of Pam's account to a real
03:04:58
estate settlement company in West Virginia oh you getting ready to buy a house uh for my daughter yes the caller
03:05:06
was able to successfully answer Pam's security questions all right you Ace of verification great job detective byerson
03:05:16
discovered that the transaction hadn't gone through so the caller had tried again the next day on the morning of
03:05:24
Pam's murder uh yes we attempted to yesterday and there was a bit of a mixup so we would like to do it again now they
03:05:31
need it today somebody's trying to perhaps steal Pam's money yes and byerson believed he knew who
03:05:40
that somebody was that is Megan haran pretending to be her mother pretending pretending he just decided it was time
03:05:49
for him to get Megan haran on the phone Megan how how you holding up I am really
03:05:54
not okay Megan claimed the attempted wire transfers were just an innocent mixup at
03:06:01
the bank but by now byerson was suspicious of everything she said he began to think Megan haran had been
03:06:09
trying to confuse police all along I realize there's a lot of confusion here Megan had stressed Helen's
03:06:17
depression and anger issues with investigators Helen has been so angry like just so angry all the time
03:06:26
over everything but Megan told byerson her sister would never have killed herself or her mom I can't imagine my
03:06:35
own baby sister doing that at all she repeated her story about two strange men in the neighborhood I had to
03:06:44
call the police about these two guys people had called them apparently but byerson says that tip went nowhere the
03:06:53
only call that's made about these guys in the neighborhood is from Megan haran he had run down every lead every
03:06:59
alternative Theory there were no other suspects but there was a motive the money and the person who had needed it
03:07:09
couldn't stop talking she demanded to come in and get an update on the case so on July 19th 5 days after Pam
03:07:19
and Helen's deaths detective byerson brought Megan in my mom he says that once Megan started this is just
03:07:29
unimaginable she wouldn't stop everything I could ask her for anything we just can't get her to leave this is
03:07:37
you she stayed for more than 4 hours long story short the point I making we would ask her questions that we knew the
03:07:44
answer to and she would either pivot to something else I don't understand what or just outright not answer the question
03:07:50
I don't know what you want me to say we want you to tell the truth I just want you to answer the
03:07:54
question at first Megan insisted it was her mom who had made those calls to the bank I'm going to play the call but when
03:08:01
byerson played the tapes for her who is that on the phone me it's you right detective byerson says she finally
03:08:12
admitted to lying to him about the wire transfer why in the world would you do that
03:08:20
I knew how it would look no no it's not how it would look you knew that if we knew about this that would shine a whole
03:08:29
new light on you still she was adamant that she hadn't shot anyone so it was truly bizarre when halfway into the
03:08:38
interview just blame me just answer the question just blame me just blame me just blame me my family's turn enough
03:08:46
just blame me so we can move on from this okay it seemed like she was acknowledging that we knew that she did
03:08:54
it without openly giving us a detailed confession this is not happening this is though inadmissible in court no I she
03:09:02
readily agreed to take a polygraph she failed three times berson says it was all adding up
03:09:12
he was sitting across from a killer it becomes very obvious to us it is exactly who we think it is and it's
03:09:21
Megan Harden but despite everything police let Megan leave that day so murder investigations can be extremely complex
03:09:32
you not only have to be sure you have to be right and that decision is not just it
03:09:39
does not just rest on me I have to be on the same page as the Commonwealth attorney's office so in consultation
03:09:45
with them we decided to wait law enforcement may not have moved but Megan haran did though she never got Pam's money she
03:09:57
and her husband used a VA loan to buy a different house in West Virginia we kept
03:10:02
an eye on her we knew where she was berson methodically kept building his case evidence kept trickling in
03:10:10
including the results of Megan's gunshot residue test which showed she had it on
03:10:16
both hands and on November 9th 2018 almost a year and a half after the deaths of Pam and Helen haran this
03:10:27
morning at approximately 7:40 a.m. detectives from our Major Crimes Bureau stopped and arrested Megan haran near
03:10:37
her home in West Virginia as detective byerson takes Megan in investigators search her home
03:10:45
and find yet another important clue that missing password sheet to Pam haran's accounts do you have any doubt that
03:10:55
Megan was the person who pulled that trigger I have no doubt at all what the defense would say is that there is doubt
03:11:04
all over this case Megan haran's defense will include a specific theory of how Helen could
03:11:12
have killed herself she puts her head down and that she's able to utilize the trigger probably with her toe to be able
03:11:20
to discharge the weapon but will the jury agree even the experts said it's possible what did you see in her eyes
03:11:49
nothing I don't see much behind those eyes more than 3 years after her arrest for the murders of her mother and sister
03:11:57
Megan haran is going on trial I think she's pure evil Whitney Gregory and Tyler Billa are Prosecuting the case
03:12:06
Megan is a pathological liar that's what she is the Commonwealth of Virginia opens by arguing Megan tried to steal
03:12:14
more than $400,000 from Pam for this new house and got so desperate for the cash that she
03:12:21
killed her then she killed Helen to keep her quiet and staged the scene as a murder suicide this is an individual who
03:12:30
murdered two of her closest family members for money the defense argues Helen was the killer mentally unstable
03:12:38
and Furious at her mother who had offered her a new house but the morning of the shooting announced there was one
03:12:46
devastating ition Helen had to break up with the man she had hoped to marry Carlos Gutierrez what is your greatest
03:12:54
challenge with this jury proving it wasn't a suicide to do that they begin by calling
03:13:01
Carlos and Helen's sister Ashley who testify on the day she died Helen seemed normal and fine did Helen have a
03:13:11
diagnosis of depression no and she didn't take her own life says detective Julia Elliot it's a homicide who tells
03:13:21
the jury about the blood stains and position of the rifle she did not have an armband long enough to pull the
03:13:28
trigger her fingers are not reaching the trigger crime scene Reconstructionist Iris graph agrees what's on the screen
03:13:35
okay this is a forensic animation a virtual model prosecutors hired graph to use photos and measurements from the
03:13:43
house to create this Digital model she can't read that trigger right we still need another 5 in So based on your
03:13:51
scientific analysis was the wound that killed Helen self-inflicted within the context of
03:13:58
this scene it's not possible that she could self-inflict that wound Gregory says that's just common sense did the
03:14:06
Tooth Fairy put the gun hole here Helen's wound isn't the only evidence pointing at Megan Megan's conduct in her
03:14:15
police interview is damning too yes she did we had and so are those phone calls to the bank thank you for calling cap
03:14:22
One bank would you tell me your name please Pamela Hansen hargen I understand you want to complete a wire transfer
03:14:28
with us today uh yes they need it today Megan's panicking because she still owes
03:14:35
that money on the house prosecutors reveal Megan lied to police about Pam buying her a house saying the reality is
03:14:43
that Megan was trying to buy that West Virginia property with her her mother's money turns out Megan still owed more
03:14:50
than $400,000 due the day of the shooting the prosecution contends she'd secretly
03:14:57
substituted her name onto Pam's bank statement as proof of funds Pam was apparently totally in the dark until the
03:15:07
day before the shooting when the bank called the real Pam hi who am I speaking to who am I speaking to my name is Jeff
03:15:15
with Capital One okay this is pamel Hanson haran a bank officer had called her to authenticate
03:15:23
the attempted wire transfer somebody tried to do a wire out of your account for $400 and some odd, thousand what I
03:15:31
did not do that the defense would say that there is doubt all over this case the defense declined to be interviewed
03:15:40
so he asked Matt Tano an attorney with decades in court he didn't try this case but we hired him to review the file to
03:15:50
help prove reasonable doubt he says the defense contends Helen was the suspicious one that day Helen doesn't
03:15:57
call 911 she doesn't run out of the house for safety she tells her boyfriend do not call for help why didn't Helen
03:16:06
call 911 that is one of the pieces to the puzzle that we'll never have that's a question that came up during the trial
03:16:13
why didn't she just leave why didn't she call 911 we don't know there's a lot authorities may never know
03:16:19
for sure about the roughly two hours they say lapsed between Pam's and Helen's deaths if Megan killed Pam why
03:16:28
did she wait so long to kill Helen and why on Earth hadn't Helen made a run for it testimonies suggests she was worried
03:16:36
about 8-year-old Molly who was home at the time not a good enough explanation says troano for hours Peter she allowed
03:16:46
what is claimed to be a murderer run loose in a home with a rifle without seeking help without barricading her
03:16:56
into a room he says Helen's body showed no definitive signs of a life and death struggle why wouldn't she have fought
03:17:05
back and how credible are the witnesses against Megan haran trano says the defense wants the jury to believe one
03:17:14
may not be credible at all her sister Ashley her story has changed when she'd spoken to investigators soon after the
03:17:25
shooting Ashley told them Helen had once been in emotional turmoil I know my sister was
03:17:32
depressed has she ever talked about hurting herself yeah but once on the stand Ashley
03:17:41
testified she doesn't remember ever saying that she says 50 times thereabouts that she
03:17:48
doesn't remember certain things there's two ways to look at that number one is that she doesn't remember right number
03:17:56
two is that she doesn't want to say things that are not helpful for the prosecution Ashley testified that she
03:18:04
couldn't recall more than 150 times why was that anytime you're dealing with the
03:18:10
victim of trauma there are always going to be aspects that she can't recall whatever the jury thinks of Ashley the
03:18:17
defense wants to explain to them how Helen could have pulled the trigger on that rifle and they have a theory with
03:18:25
her toe she puts her head down and that she's able to utilize the trigger probably with her toe to be able to
03:18:34
discharge the weapon toe she's got to figure out some way and the the critical question is could it have been done even
03:18:43
the prosecution's expert witness concedes while very unlikely it is possible can her toe reach the trigger
03:18:52
yes her legs are long enough that her toe could reach the trigger either way the judge thinks Iris graph's digital
03:18:59
reconstruction isn't necessary so he prevents the jury from seeing it and though Megan haran never testifies every
03:19:07
shred of evidence shows that Megan haran was the one who committed these murders in closings prosecutor basilla
03:19:15
argues there's no evidence idence Pam haran was actually going to cancel the contract on Helen's new house and he
03:19:23
urges the jury to compare Helen's Behavior around the time of the shooting to Megan's he says Megan's actions speak
03:19:31
for themselves she's doing all these things that a murderer would do but the defense insists there's Reasonable Doubt
03:19:38
in this case they argue the prosecutor's forensics are inconclusive and the toe on the trigger
03:19:45
Theory cannot be ruled out it's possible and if it's possible that then lends itself to doubt Megan haran is
03:19:53
innocent Megan's friend Rebecca wolf spent about 5 years working for the justice department she knows her way
03:20:01
around a criminal trial and has been at this one almost every day I would not be
03:20:08
comfortable sending someone to prison for the rest of their life without knowing beyond the shadow of a doubt in
03:20:14
my mind that they did it on March 24th 2022 almost 5 years after the shootings the jury gets the case based on your
03:20:26
review of this case as the jury is heading into deliberation could this go either way
03:20:44
sure as the jurors come back into the room they have a decision are you looking at their
03:20:50
faces yes after a 3 week trial it takes the jury less than two days of deliberations to reach a verdict I I
03:21:00
thought my legs were going to go weak cuz we were standing up and it had been just like months of Our Lives that this
03:21:04
is all we had done Megan haran is guilty two counts of first-degree murder for killing her
03:21:12
sister Helen and mother Pam how did Megan react to the verdict at least for me as a prosecutor
03:21:20
I don't want to look over at that table I think it's not very classy I'm just sort of In the Zone trying not to pass
03:21:25
out I think weight lifted off of everybody it was a very emotional moment the jury recommends a sentence to
03:21:33
the judge of life in prison on each murder count I thought for sure that I would be getting a phone call and coming
03:21:41
to pick her up 100% Megan's friend Rebecca wolf thinks this jury was shortsighted I thought they were going
03:21:50
to see through all of this they were going to look at all the evidence they were going to ask the right questions
03:21:57
they were going to do their job this job is difficult detective byerson thinks there are parts of Authority's conduct
03:22:04
in this case that he would have changed if he could how 911 dispatchers responded to Carlos Gutierrez and how
03:22:13
quickly the Fairfax County PD went public with the murder suicide Theory I don't find it helpful to kind of make a
03:22:22
blanket statement about what we think it is because it doesn't matter what we think it is it only matters what it
03:22:26
turns out to be was Justice served in this case depends on what Justice is right you're never bringing back the two
03:22:36
lives that were lost the domino effect of tragedy from what happened is immeasurable
03:22:46
though the trial is finally finished waves of grief still wash over the surviving haran
03:22:53
family it's just an immeasurable grief and ripples still reverberate in the lives of people they touched like
03:23:03
Pam's former neighbor Tammy and I was just just devastated I mean just but what I didn't have any words it was just
03:23:15
unbelievable and Helen's friend Aaron I was in chalk who had moved abroad after graduation
03:23:24
and had to hear about her death from us I had no idea that happened to her you're convinced if Helen were alive
03:23:36
today she'd be on the road to some great success some great career absolutely she'd be a trailblazer
03:23:48
how do you want your friend Helen to be remembered for being kind and compassionate
03:23:57
driven and caring just a very caring person [Music] 48 hours to miss it would be a crime
03:24:35
were you at all prepared for what happened in this case [Music]