00:00:08
My name is Daniel Chandler. >> I have been accused of double homicide and I am innocent.
00:00:18
>> Is it hard to believe you're sitting here again to talk about this? >> Yeah, it really is. I didn't think 20
00:00:26
years later that this is what would be happening in this situation. [music] July 7th of 2002,
00:00:38
my dad [music] and his fiance Karen were shot and killed in their beds. I was 17
00:00:45
and my brother was 15. And there was just shock. The only [music] person that hated them
00:00:54
was my mom. >> Dana, >> what should people understand about the fact that you, Dana Chandler's daughter,
00:01:02
thinks Dana Chandler [music] killed your father? >> I do have a mind of my own and I'm not
00:01:08
biased in this situation. I don't want it to be her. I want the truth to come out. And I want true
00:01:16
justice for my dad, Karen. Mike and Karen were together for the weekend alone. They did everything. They
00:01:24
loved each other. >> They drove up to a casino, spent a few hours there, and then arrived back home
00:01:30
in the early morning hours. They were found uh Sunday afternoon, July 7th. >> The killer made it downstairs, shot
00:01:37
Karen Harkness [snorts] multiple times, shot Mike Cisco multiple times. It's unnerving to think that somebody could
00:01:44
sneak into a house and do this and leave quietly and nobody knows about it till the next day. Whoever it was that did
00:01:51
this hated these people. They wanted them dead and they wanted to make sure they were dead.
00:01:57
>> Both hands out of the car. >> It could be the justice two families have long been waiting for. The arrest
00:02:04
of Dana Chandler in the 2002 killings of Karen Hartness and Michael Cisco. You have a trial where she's found
00:02:11
guilty. >> We, the jury, find the defendant guilty of the crime of murder >> and then the Kansas Supreme Court comes
00:02:17
and says, "This is prosecutorial misconduct and it's so bad that we're going to go ahead and overturn her
00:02:24
conviction. You have a new trial. >> The jury is unable to reach a unanimous verdict." [music]
00:02:30
>> And now they've had a hung jury and they're going to try her again. That just is almost unheard of. For the third
00:02:38
time, Dana Chandler is back on trial. Opening statements [music] today is Chandler will represent herself in this
00:02:46
case. >> I knew it was [music] different. I just didn't know what was going to happen. I
00:02:51
could never predicted it. >> When officers talked to friends, family, co-workers, [music] they all said the
00:02:57
same thing. You guys should look at Dana Chandler. >> The truth is that she murdered them.
00:03:03
>> I did not kill Mike Cisco. I did not kill Karen Harness. I am an innocent woman.
00:03:25
[music] >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Dana Chandler has spent decades maintaining her innocence against
00:04:05
allegations she was responsible for the 2002 murders of her ex-husband Mike Cisco and his girlfriend Karen Harkness.
00:04:14
>> My uh liberty, my freedom is hanging in the balance. In 2025, Chandler took on her own defense,
00:04:23
[music] representing herself in the third trial the state brought against her for the murders.
00:04:30
>> I wanted to understand what happened and why and and and actually know the truth
00:04:34
of what happened. >> Haley Seal [music] is Dana Chandler and Mike Cisco's daughter.
00:04:41
She and other family members of Mike and Karen [music] have spent decades grieving, searching for answers, and for
00:04:48
justice. Hi, Dana. Her Harold D, CBS [music] News. >> 48 Hours first started covering the
00:04:54
murders in 2008 and spoke with individuals involved several times over the years.
00:05:01
>> It's hard to swallow and it's it's hard to believe. It's insane. [snorts] >> For Haley, it all started on July 7th,
00:05:12
2002. She learned her father and Karen had been killed in Karen's Topeka, Kansas home. I immediately just saw a
00:05:20
bunch of tape around the house and police and my grandma was sitting in there and um she just told me that they
00:05:26
had been shot. >> The night before the murders, Mike and Karen enjoyed an evening at a casino
00:05:35
about an hour outside of Topeka. Surveillance footage shows them leaving about 1:30 a.m. They then stopped to get
00:05:44
coffee, the last time video captured Karen alive. >> They were extremely happy. You could
00:05:50
just see that. >> Karen's father, Harold Warswick. >> Everything they did was for each other.
00:05:57
>> The day after Mike and Karen's night out, a family get together had been planned at Karen's house. Relatives
00:06:04
thought the couple might be announcing they were engaged. and I rang the doorbell and knocked on the glass and
00:06:11
couldn't raise anybody. I thought, "This is strange." >> Karen's father, who has since died,
00:06:18
recalled that he entered Karen's home that afternoon through an open sliding door, didn't see any sign of her or
00:06:25
Mike. So, he headed downstairs to the bedroom. >> Just I got to foot of the stairs, I
00:06:30
could see Karen, and I said, "Oh, Christ." I knew she was dead. Then I found Mike on the outside of the
00:06:40
bed. >> Harold would then call 911. >> I've just located my daughter and she's downstairs and she's dead.
00:06:49
>> I got a radio call just after 2:00 on July 7th, 2002. >> Richard Voloy, now retired, was the
00:06:56
Topeka Police Department's lead detective on the case. >> It was a report of two dead bodies in a
00:07:03
basement. Five bullets had struck 53-year-old Karen, including in her back and buttocks. Mike, 47, suffered between
00:07:13
five and seven gunshot wounds. The couple had been in bed. The rest of the house appears undisturbed.
00:07:21
Investigators found more than $1,000 in cash, a Rolex watch, and other jewelry left behind. Robbery was quickly ruled
00:07:31
out. To understand who might want Karen and Mike dead, police turn to their families for information.
00:07:40
>> What we're left with is an emotional killing. It's an emotional execution. >> Mike, a salesperson for a welding
00:07:47
company, and Karen, who worked in the hospitality industry, were both previously married and now divorced. The
00:07:55
well-liked couple had been dating about four years. It was a surprise to everybody that this would happen to
00:08:01
somebody like her. >> Karen's children, Chad and Aaron, were in their 20s at the time of the murders.
00:08:09
>> My mom was an amazing woman. She She didn't have enemies. And I remember telling her on several occasions that if
00:08:18
I could be half the mom that she was to me, that I would be the best mom in the world.
00:08:24
>> Mike had custody of his two children. Haley, then 17, and Dustin, 15. >> My dad was really in my life growing up.
00:08:33
He was really my hero. >> Haley's relationship with her dad was more complicated.
00:08:40
>> I wasn't happy with my dad. I wasn't happy with my mom. I wasn't happy at my school.
00:08:46
>> By Haley's own admission, she was a difficult teenager. >> My dad gave me an ultimatum. Either you
00:08:53
follow my rules or you move out. choosing to live with her then boyfriend [music] Chris.
00:08:59
>> I moved in with Chris and then my dad was killed. >> That defiance made Haley and Chris of
00:09:07
interest to police. They were polygraphed and questioned. >> I'm just curious. Is everything all
00:09:13
right with your dad and everything? >> Uh yeah. We weren't really getting along for a little while.
00:09:19
Authorities said their alibis checked out, as did the alibis of Karen's daughter, Aaron, and her husband, Jeff
00:09:27
Sutton. Karen's son, Chad, was also questioned. >> I was hooked up to a polygraph machine
00:09:33
and asked if I had murdered my mother or in any way participated in the murder of
00:09:37
my mother. >> Police concluded none of them were involved, but family members thought
00:09:42
they knew who was responsible. Mike's ex-wife, Dana Chandler. She just she never fit in.
00:09:51
>> Kathy Boots, Mike's sister, watched Dana and Mike's relationship deteriorate.
00:09:56
After 15 years of marriage, the couple went through a bitter divorce, finalized in 1998.
00:10:03
Mike's relatives say Dana had a drinking problem, and she sporadically stalked Mike during and after the divorce with
00:10:11
frequent calls and bizarre visits. The kids were upstairs in their room and we heard a noise and there she was in the
00:10:19
middle of the night jumping on a trampoline in the backyard of Mike's home. >> I think she became obsessed with the
00:10:28
fact that Mike was moving on with his life. >> Mark Boots, Mike's brother-in-law.
00:10:34
>> Uh, and then when Karen entered the picture, that's when things really started, I think, escalating.
00:10:40
Mike kept track of some of the incidents from 1998 in a day planner. Writing July
00:10:46
28th, Dana stalking neighborhood at 8:30. Caught her. She left. November 12th, Dana came in house while I was at
00:10:55
Karen's from 7 to 11. Went through stuff. >> She was willing to travel great distances to show up back in his life.
00:11:04
According to the Boots, the last time Dana showed up at Mike's home was in the spring of 2002,
00:11:11
several months before the murders. Kathy said Mike told her Dana went there to talk about moving back in.
00:11:20
>> She said, "The kids are getting older. They're having different issues with themselves now. They need both parents.
00:11:25
I think I should move back in and we should parent together." All this harassment and stalking had
00:11:32
come to the point that Mike told me that he and Karen now feared for their lives.
00:11:37
>> Mark says Mike made that clear to him on a fishing trip 9 days before the murders.
00:11:43
>> He turned to me and said, "Mark, you're going to wake up and find me dead, and I
00:11:47
want you to know who did it, Dana Chandler." But Dana Chandler lived 8 hours away in Denver, and there was no
00:11:55
sign that she had been in Karen's house in Topeka the night of the murders. The victims were doing absolutely
00:12:24
nothing and may not have seen it coming at all. Investigators were trying to determine
00:12:31
who would gun down Mike Cisco and Karen Harkness as they lay in bed. Detective Richard Voloy called Mike's
00:12:41
ex-wife, Dana Chandler, to inform her of Mike's murder. Your husband was found shot to death today, this afternoon.
00:12:52
Your ex-husband, I'm sorry. Can you tell me when the last time was that you talked to him?
00:12:56
>> Dana Volley says, did not ask many questions and did not seem [music] concerned. She would later say she was
00:13:03
very upset on that call, but only Volley's side of their conversation was recorded due to a technical error, he
00:13:10
said, on his part. The next evening, Chandler called the Topeka Police Department, leaving a
00:13:18
message on a different officer's voicemail. >> Hi, my name is Dana Chandler, and I got
00:13:23
a registered phone call last night. Someone had said that my son had been killed, and I'm just calling to to see
00:13:29
if that's true or not. Dana would later explain her call was simply seeking confirmation. Given the
00:13:37
personal nature of the murders, no signs of a burglary, and those stories about a
00:13:43
messy divorce and stalking, Dana Chandler became the main suspect. Detective Volo decided to talk with
00:13:51
Chandler in person, [music] recording this audio 4 days after the murders. >> Tell me about what happened on the set.
00:14:00
I got my hair, >> but again, there was an issue with the recording in most of the rest of the
00:14:07
conversation. >> Dana is difficult to hear. Detective Volo recounted what he said she told
00:14:15
him. >> She said she'd been at home uh Saturday morning, that's July 6th, and then made
00:14:21
a couple of errand stops. Dana said she bought cigarettes, snacks, and a car cigarette lighter at several
00:14:30
stores around Denver and then got gas. But Voy says she failed to mention one purchase he saw on a credit card
00:14:39
receipt. >> She'd f two 5gallon gas cans as well. Voy wondered why she didn't tell him and
00:14:46
why she would even need gas cans unless she had been planning a trip perhaps to Kansas and didn't want to stop for gas
00:14:54
along the way. According to Volo, Dana had also said after running those errands, she went home to her Denver
00:15:02
apartment. >> Didn't have any visitors, no contact with anybody. And the next day got up
00:15:09
and went for a drive in the mountains at 10:00 in the morning. But Voy couldn't verify that Dana was in
00:15:16
her apartment the night of the murders, nor that she took a drive in the mountains the next day. Volley said the
00:15:23
area Dana described driving through would have meant she'd have to pass Rocky Mountain National Park
00:15:30
surveillance cameras. Those cameras were checked. Volley said there was no sign of her car. The particular person that I
00:15:39
had view that tape looked at every frame slowly. She was never there. >> Investigators also reviewed Dana's cell
00:15:49
phone records. They said that while she tended to use her cell phone frequently,
00:15:54
she oddly had no activity around the time of the murders. >> What we found was there was a 27-hour
00:16:02
window where her phone wasn't used. Still, there was no DNA, no fingerprints, or other forensic evidence
00:16:10
to tie Dana to the killings. The gun used in the murders hadn't been found, though investigators learned the bullets
00:16:18
were from an Israeli weapons manufacturer, and Dana would go on to say she didn't
00:16:24
even own a gun. But family members remained convinced that Dana was responsible for the
00:16:32
murders. They say they pushed to have a meeting with then DA Robert Hec, Tim Cisco, [music]
00:16:40
Mike's brother. >> I specifically would went into this meeting wanting to know if he would
00:16:46
pursue a circumstantial case. And the answer was without that murder weapon, we don't have enough hard evidence to
00:16:54
move this forward. Mike's and Karen's families grew increasingly frustrated and decided to
00:17:00
take action, looking for more information about Dana's possible involvement in the murders.
00:17:07
>> I put her picture up everywhere. Have you seen this person? Several months after the murders, having more questions
00:17:14
than answers, Mike's sister Kathy said she and their mom, Carol, went searching for clues, even lifting up manhole
00:17:23
covers and looking in rest stops for the gun used in the murders. >> We thought, you know, maybe she threw
00:17:30
the gun somewhere, so I would stand on a toilet and try and push a tile up. >> They found nothing.
00:17:37
But Haley, Dana and Mike's daughter, was also working the case. >> I felt the need to do something. I
00:17:44
didn't want to just sit back with my hands tied and helpless. >> In 2005, 3 years after the murders,
00:17:50
Haley began secretly recording conversations with her mother, trying to learn what happened to her dad and
00:17:58
Karen. I think that the only way I can really move on with a relationship with you is if we can get it. You know, if
00:18:07
you can just tell me yourself that you did it. >> You know, number one, I didn't do it.
00:18:11
And number one, I don't number two, I don't know what happened to Haley. >> One thing Haley asked about was why her
00:18:17
mother had no cell phone activity for 27 [music] hours around the time of the murders.
00:18:23
>> Why did I have no calls the whole time? You know, it could be traced. I was in the mountains. I didn't have a
00:18:29
signal. >> Dana insisted she had nothing to do with the murders, but did say she had violent
00:18:36
thoughts about Mike. >> I thought I could kill him. >> Ever think about killing him?
00:18:41
>> No, but I did. >> Honestly, I go over it with you. [music] >> The official investigation though seems
00:18:49
stalled. So, authorities asked Vernon Girth, a homicide and forensic consultant and former New York City
00:18:57
Police Department detective, to review case files. In 2007, nearly 5 years after the murders, he issued a report
00:19:07
concluding Dana Chandler is the one and only person [music] who had the motive, means, and opportunity to commit these
00:19:17
murders. It was Girth who brought the case to the attention of 48 Hours. In 2009, 48 Hours
00:19:26
aired its first report on the murders and tried to talk with Dana Chandler. >> Did you know anything about the death of
00:19:33
Michael and Karen? >> I have no idea what happened to Michael. >> 48 hours ended the episode asking
00:19:40
viewers to contact police if they had any information. Again, the case seemed to be going nowhere. uh recon this
00:19:49
morning. >> But two years later, a new DA, Chad Taylor, decided he was willing to take a
00:19:55
chance with the evidence they had. >> He chose to move the case forward and arrest Dana Chandler.
00:20:03
>> One team come up this way, one team come up here. >> With our cameras rolling,
00:20:06
>> laid eyes on her this morning. >> Law enforcement zeroed in on Dana Chandler in Oklahoma where she was
00:20:13
staying at the time. Taylor didn't just help plan the arrest, but went on it with a gun at the ready.
00:20:20
>> Step out of the car. Both hands out of the car. >> And on July 24th, 2011, Dana Chandler
00:20:28
was in custody, charged with the murders of Mike Cisco and Karen Harkness. I hit a point where I didn't know if
00:20:50
justice would ever be served. >> For Haley, who was convinced her mother killed her father, Dana's arrest was
00:20:59
nearly a decade in the making. >> It was such a feeling that I I it was unbelievable.
00:21:07
She was determined to get justice as she prepared to face Dana in court. >> I made it this far. [music] I can do
00:21:15
anything. >> All right. >> In March 2012, Dana Chandler went on trial. Jackie Spradling, then chief
00:21:25
deputy DA, began by referring to those conversations Haley had taped years earlier with her mother.
00:21:32
>> I could kill him. I thought about killing him. These are the words of this defendant
00:21:41
about her ex-husband, Mike Cisco. >> In her opening statement, Sprdling suggested a possible motive for murder.
00:21:50
>> Two days before the homicides, the defendant called Mike. Mike at this time told the defendant in that five-minute
00:21:58
phone call that he and Karen were going to be married. But there is no recording
00:22:03
of that call. >> It's easy to make allegations. It's difficult to prove those allegations.
00:22:12
>> And in his opening, defense attorney Mark Bennett argued the case against Dana Chandler was all speculation. show
00:22:20
you that there is no evidence that places Dana Chandler in or near the Harkness residence
00:22:30
on July 6 or 7, 2002. But to authorities, there was the question about exactly where Dana was
00:22:39
during that time. Detective Volo says she told him she was home Saturday, the night of the murders, and then drove
00:22:46
through the mountains the next day. But Dana's business acquaintance, Jeff Bailey, testified Dana told him
00:22:53
something different. That she slept in her car in the mountains the Saturday night of the murders.
00:23:00
>> She told me that the story she was giving me was the truth. And the story that she'd given to the law enforcements
00:23:07
was not the truth. >> And prosecutors told the jury Dana did not use her cell phone for 27 hours the
00:23:16
weekend of the murders. Remember, Haley accused her mother of trying to avoid being tracked. Volley found another
00:23:24
instance when Dana didn't use her phone a month before the murders. >> There were no calls registered. There
00:23:31
were some calls came to the phone, but none were picked up. >> And prosecutors say that's important
00:23:36
[music] because during that time, a month before the murders, was Dana's dry run for the killings. They called her
00:23:44
friend Anne Carander to the stand. Carander says Dana told her she had driven to Topeka.
00:23:51
>> She had um gone to Mike's house um through the window. Um nobody was home. >> What else did she tell you?
00:24:05
>> That she had gone um and sat outside Karen's house. Sprdling says Dana was obsessed with
00:24:13
Mike and presented evidence that in the six months leading up to the murders, she called Mike and Karen more than 600
00:24:22
times. The defense argued Dana was calling to talk to her kids, but Haley remembered
00:24:28
her mother's calls differently. >> What was the thing that she talked to you the most about?
00:24:35
She talked about my dad a lot and um I I I really feel like she was was really just
00:24:43
obsessed with him. >> An FBI analyst testified Dana often called late at night and frequently made
00:24:51
repeated calls in a short time period, including a month before the murders. >> On June 3rd, she made 17 calls in 18
00:25:00
minutes. Both of Dana's children testified for the prosecution, saying that their
00:25:07
mother also had a history of stalking their father. >> She took me and my sister uh with her to
00:25:14
go spy on my dad. And so we were uh in the car and she told us, you know, we're just going to be our little helpers.
00:25:20
>> She asked if I would go go up to the house with her and we did. And she was looking in all the windows and she told
00:25:26
me to look in the windows and did you? >> I did. >> Okay. What was it that she was looking
00:25:31
at in there? >> Um, I think that she um was was thinking there was a a lady in there with my dad.
00:25:40
>> Haley also testified about those recordings she made talking with her mother. During one of them, Dana, who
00:25:47
attended Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, gave an explanation as to why she bought
00:25:53
those gas cans. I ran into a girl that had run out of gas at an AA meeting and so I went and got gas for her. She asked
00:26:01
me for money and we don't give people money at AA. >> Prosecutor Sprdling told the jury that
00:26:06
she believed Chandler used those two 5gallon gas cans to have enough gas so she would not have to stop and
00:26:15
potentially be seen near the crime scene. But Chandler's attorney argued there was no proof she was ever in
00:26:22
Topeka during the time of the murders. >> Did you or any other members of the Topeka Police Department ever find an
00:26:31
eyewitness that put the defendant Dana Chandler in Topeka, Kansas on either July 6 or July 7, 2002?
00:26:40
>> No. The closest law enforcement was able to come was here at a gas station in Wini,
00:26:48
Kansas, nearly halfway between Denver and Topeka. Clerk Patty Williams wasn't sure, but she thought she might have
00:26:56
seen Dana the night of the murders. >> Patty was shown a picture of the defendant. Patty indicated that she was
00:27:02
70% sure that that was the woman who had been there. But by the time Chandler went on trial,
00:27:09
Patty Williams had died. A different worker from the gas station testified about seeing a black car that looked
00:27:17
similar to the one Chandler drove that day, but she said it might have had license plates from Virginia. When it
00:27:25
was the defense's turn, Bennett pointed out there was no proof Dana was ever there.
00:27:31
>> There wasn't any receipt from Walkini, was there? >> No. And Bennett questioned whether
00:27:36
Detective Volo investigated other [music] suspects, like two men with criminal records who had stolen checks
00:27:43
from Mike Cisco [music] and cashed one after the murders. >> That didn't make him a suspect.
00:27:48
>> No, because the check wasn't taken from Karen Harkness's house where the murders
00:27:52
occurred. The check was actually taken from Mike Cisco's house where the murders did not occur.
00:27:57
>> And one of the men was in jail when the murders occurred. In closing arguments, Bennett reiterated
00:28:06
there was no forensic evidence linking Chandler to the crime. >> All this time they've been trying to put
00:28:12
her in Kansas when this happened. And for 9 and a half years, they've come up dry.
00:28:20
>> Sprdling reminded the jury of Dana's stalking behavior and tried to make sure
00:28:25
they knew just how scared Mike was of Dana. She said Mike had gotten a protection from abuse order against
00:28:33
Dana. >> So, he got a court order saying she has to stay away. The protection from abuse order did not
00:28:40
stop the defendant, though. >> After 2 weeks of testimony, it took the jury 83 minutes to reach a verdict.
00:28:50
>> Defendant would please stand. We the jury find the defendant guilty of the crime of murder in the first degree
00:28:58
is charged in count one. >> I feel better in the sense that my dad's killer is paying for their actions.
00:29:10
>> I don't feel better that my mom is capable >> of killing my dad. When it was time for sentencing, Haley
00:29:21
asked that her mom receive the maximum sentence. >> We each have a deep scar in our souls
00:29:27
from what this monster has done. >> But Chandler would also get a chance to speak.
00:29:32
>> But most importantly, I deny that I murdered Mike Karen. I am innocent. I did not murder Mike Karen.
00:29:40
>> Dana Chandler was sentenced to life in prison, but soon that verdict would be
00:29:46
called into question. >> [music] >> A lot of my mind has been focused on her getting away with killing my dad and
00:30:11
just drags me down. For years, Haley Seal's thoughts were consumed with proving her mother killed
00:30:19
her father, Mike Cisco, and Karen Harkness. With Dana Chandler in prison, Haley was relieved she could concentrate
00:30:28
on other things. But her relief was tinged with pain. >> I want to focus on my future and what I
00:30:37
want to do with my life. >> I want to be everything my mom wasn't. But Haley's focus would turn again to
00:30:47
the case. Dana Chandler almost immediately began filing motions as she worked to appeal her conviction.
00:30:56
She and her attorney cited, among other things, the actions of prosecutor Jackie
00:31:01
Sprdling. In particular, statements Brad Spradling made at trial about that protection from abuse order.
00:31:09
>> Mike got a protection from abuse, a court order. He applied and said, "Hey, judge, please order this woman to stay
00:31:17
away from me." And the judge agreed. >> And that is just a blatant misstatement.
00:31:22
>> Stacy Schlimmer, one of Chandler's appeal attorneys, was never able to find a protection from abuse order.
00:31:30
>> I went through the whole case. I went and looked for every possible order I could find, and there wasn't one that
00:31:36
she was referring to. In [music] 2018, Schlimmer argued that Jackie Sprdling's actions constituted prosecal misconduct.
00:31:46
I I think that Miss Chandler never had an opportunity at a fair trial from the get- go.
00:31:52
>> Schlimmer contended the [music] case against Dana Chandler should be thrown out. The court agreed.
00:31:59
>> The Kansas Supreme Court held that it's so bad that we're going to go ahead and
00:32:04
overturn her conviction. Other issues about statements Brad Sprdling made at trial also came up,
00:32:11
including describing a route Dana took between Kansas and Denver when there was no evidence that she drove that way.
00:32:19
>> She drove directly up to Nebraska. And after she gets on Nebraska, she turns around and goes home.
00:32:27
>> They just kind of hypothesized, well, she must have went up and went over from
00:32:30
Nebraska. There was no evidence of that at all. Schlimmer also contended the state did not have enough evidence to
00:32:38
prove Dana Chandler's guilt. >> We argued insufficiency of evidence as an issue for appeal.
00:32:46
>> Meaning, you don't think prosecutors had enough to make a legitimate case. >> Jurors didn't have enough evidence
00:32:52
before them if you took out all the evidence that should have never been presented or told to them incorrectly.
00:32:59
The Kansas Supreme Court described Jackie Sprdling's actions as quote intolerable acts of deception and she
00:33:08
was desparred. 48 Hours reached out to Sprdling but did not receive a response. When a case gets reversed, like a case
00:33:17
like this, we essentially have an innocent woman who's been convicted of crime because of a prosecutor, or
00:33:28
we have a family that has now a reverse conviction that has to go through the system again.
00:33:36
>> Either way, there's an injustice, >> right? So, that conduct is going to affect someone.
00:33:41
The court did decide though there was sufficient evidence to retry Dana Chandler if the district attorney chose
00:33:48
to. When I found out that this Kansas Supreme Court overturned the verdict, it was very shocking.
00:33:57
What does this mean? Will the DA's office retry her? >> Were you angry with the prosecutor who
00:34:04
was cited for misconduct? No, I've never been angry with her. I think it was an innocent mistake.
00:34:13
>> Had Jackie not made those comments, we wouldn't be sitting here today. This would be over.
00:34:19
>> Chad Harkness, Karen's son, takes a different view of Jackie Sprdling's actions.
00:34:26
>> Now, all these years later, we're still having to, you know, live through this
00:34:31
again. And it's just it's not right. It's not fair. The decision whether to retry Dana Chandler was now in the hands
00:34:39
of Shaunie County's new DA Mike Kay. >> We analyzed every aspect of the case and
00:34:47
ultimately we came to the conclusion uh that we believed justice demanded that we move forward and we pursue another
00:34:54
trial. >> Pursuing that would take years. Dana Chandler remained incarcerated. She and
00:35:01
her defense lawyers argued she should be set free and fought against having another trial.
00:35:09
>> What were those years like? [sighs and gasps] >> Unbelievable. >> For Haley, the [music] delays seemed
00:35:16
endless. Dana and her lawyers filed nearly 400 motions, including ones requesting a change of judge, to retain
00:35:25
an investigator, for her bond to be reduced, and to disqualify the Shauny County District Attorney's Office, and
00:35:34
through it all, she fired several of her lawyers. She went through seven lawyers in that
00:35:40
time and between representing herself. >> There were also dozens of hearings, including one where Haley was called to
00:35:49
testify and Dana did the questioning. >> She took me on the stand for at least 45
00:35:56
minutes and she directly questioned me. >> What was that like? It was the most awful
00:36:03
thing I've ever I mean, the the suspect in the killing of my dad is now having the power to
00:36:12
question me on the stand and talk to me. >> Not just the suspect in the killing of
00:36:17
your dad, your own mother. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it it it was awful. But Haley was willing to take whatever
00:36:25
steps necessary to ensure her mother would stand trial again for the murders. If she could bring out something to
00:36:35
prove where she was, to say she didn't do it, prove she didn't do it. That's not just for me. That's for her and her
00:36:43
own freedom. But she can't and she hasn't. >> [music] >> Two innocent people were murdered in our
00:37:07
community. That demands justice. Although Dana Chandler's conviction had been overturned, prosecutors were
00:37:17
determined to retry her for the murders of Mike Cisco and Karen Harkness. By 2021, [music]
00:37:24
the organization Miracle of Innocence got involved advocating for Dana. >> Dana Chandler was someone who we
00:37:32
believed in her innocence. When we looked at the case, the facts was just nothing connected this lady to the
00:37:37
crime. Daryl Burton is the co-founder of Miracle of Innocence. He's someone who was wrongfully imprisoned and had
00:37:45
[music] his murder conviction reversed. He says before sending someone to prison, the case needs to be more
00:37:52
convincing than the one made against Dana Chandler. >> There's no evidence, [music] no
00:37:58
fingerprints, no DNA, no confession, no weapon, no witnesses, nothing. when it comes to, you know, these kinds of
00:38:05
crimes of murder, you just got to have more than that. >> Dana and her attorneys also raised other
00:38:11
issues as they tried to get the case dismissed. Some [music] allegations related to the
00:38:17
2009 48 Hours broadcast. Chandler falsely accused law enforcement of forming a partnership with 48 Hours to
00:38:27
film an episode aimed at convincing the public that Ms. Chandler murdered Mike Cisco and Karen Harkness.
00:38:35
>> What do you make of the idea that if 48 hours had not reported starting in 2009
00:38:41
on this case that Dana Chandler would never have been arrested or tried? >> I don't think it was 48 hour. 2009 is a
00:38:50
lot different than when they arrested her. They arrested her three or four years 3 years later. I think the family
00:38:58
was what kept it going. They believe that Miss Chandler did this. It was the new prosecutor and it was the family
00:39:06
probably saying, "Hey, we need justice done in this." >> But Stacy Schlimmer, Dana's former
00:39:14
appeal attorney, does take issue with the handling of the 2011 arrest and the show of force.
00:39:23
You've seen Dana Chandler's arrest many times, >> right? >> And it bothers you. It bothers me a lot.
00:39:31
>> 48 hours as well as the Topeka Capital Journal were given [music] advanced notice of the arrest by the office of
00:39:39
then DA Chad Taylor. Are you bothered by law enforcement or are you bothered by the fact that there
00:39:48
were cameras [music] there? >> I'm bothered by the prosecutor >> and then you and I will leave. I'm
00:39:52
bothered by the district attorney showing up at an arrest and having [music] that arrest filmed.
00:40:00
>> So, they wanted video of law enforcement with their guns out. >> I think they wanted then the public to
00:40:07
see that that to me was it seemed like such a production for a case >> that prosecutor should never have done
00:40:15
that. Ultimately, the various arguments Dana Chandler's team made to dismiss the
00:40:21
case were unsuccessful. Chandler's new trial was scheduled for the summer of 2022.
00:40:28
Before the trial began, 48 hours again tried to speak with Dana Chandler. She said she would only agreed to an
00:40:36
interview if CBS [music] paid her milliondoll bond. We declined. Never thought we'd be sitting here again
00:40:45
and getting ready to start a retrial on this. It's just mind-blowing. >> Chad Harkness, Karen's son, was relieved
00:40:54
the DA's office decided to retry Dana Chandler, but was concerned about going through this yet another time.
00:41:03
>> Just us kids having to relive this again, and it just makes me sick. Haley too was not looking forward to
00:41:13
another trial, but said testifying again could give her some control of the situation.
00:41:20
If I can realize my power and it gives me courage to go forward because I know the
00:41:28
truth. The truth is that she murdered them. [music] >> The passage of time has left Haley with
00:41:35
so much loss. loss she holds her mother responsible for. And as a mom herself, having married her
00:41:44
high school boyfriend, Chris, Haley's feelings are even more complicated. [music]
00:41:51
When you think of your mom, do you think [music] mother or do you think Dana? >> I think Dana. Yeah, she's Dana to me.
00:42:03
Actually, mom is is a an ucky word to me [music] to the point where I don't even
00:42:08
like my kids to call me mom. I don't like mom. Mom is a a very hurtful person. No matter the name, Dana Chandler is
00:42:23
someone Haley will have to face again in court and someone who will eventually tell her side of the story.
00:42:31
>> Start by stating my name. My name is Daniel Chandler. I, as everyone know, have been accused of double homicide
00:42:40
and I am innocent. >> 48 hours to miss it would be a crime. >> Were [music] you at all prepared for
00:42:54
what happened in this case? >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> They were found uh Sunday afternoon,
00:43:41
July 7th. >> My dad and his fiance Karen were shot and killed in their beds. I was 17 and
00:43:52
my brother was 15. And there was just shock. The killer made it downstairs, shot
00:44:00
Karen Harkness multiple times, shot Mike Cisco multiple times. Whoever it was that did this
00:44:08
>> hated these people. >> The only person that hated them was my mom. >> Dana, >> what should people understand about the
00:44:16
fact that you, Dana Chandler's daughter, thinks Dana Chandler killed your father?
00:44:23
I do have a mind of my own and I'm [music] not biased in this situation. I don't want it to be her. I [music]
00:44:31
want the truth to come out. I wanted to help the police. [music] So, I started to record my
00:44:39
conversations with her. >> I think that the only way I can really move on with a relationship with you is
00:44:47
if we can get it, you know, if you can just tell me yourself that you did it. You know, number one, I didn't do it.
00:44:54
And number one, I don't number two, I don't know what happened. >> Did you know anything about the death of
00:44:59
Michael and Karen? >> I have no idea what happened. >> I hit a point where I didn't know if
00:45:04
justice would ever be served. >> Both hands out of the car. >> I needed justice for my dad and for
00:45:15
Karen. >> We the jury find the defendant guilty of the crime of murder in the first degree.
00:45:20
I feel better in the sense that my dad's killer is paying for their actions. >> I don't feel better that my mom is
00:45:32
capable of killing my dad. >> And then [music] the Kansas Supreme Court comes and says, "This is
00:45:38
prosecutorial misconduct. We're going to go ahead and overturn her conviction. You have a new trial.
00:45:46
My liberty, my freedom is hanging in [music] the balance. >> If she could bring out something to
00:45:54
prove she didn't do it, that's for her and her own freedom. But she can't and she hasn't.
00:45:59
>> I did not kill Mike Cisco. >> She would not hesitate to get revenge [music] on me.
00:46:05
>> I did not kill Karen Hartness. >> I know the truth. >> I am an innocent woman.
00:46:10
>> The truth is that she murdered them. She scares me. >> Your mom scares you? >> Yeah.
00:46:38
>> [music] [music] [music] >> I wanted to understand what happened and why and actually know the truth of what
00:47:14
happened. For two decades, Haley Seal has been waiting for justice in the murders of
00:47:22
her father, Mike Cisco, and his [music] girlfriend, Karen Harkness. >> This hasn't been resolved.
00:47:31
In 2002, multiple bullets struck 53-year-old Karen and 47year-old Mike as they lay in bed in Karen's Kansas home.
00:47:41
Authorities believed it was a crime of passion as the rest of the house seemed undisturbed with money and jewelry left
00:47:50
behind. And Haley believed it was her mother, Dana Chandler, who was responsible. The truth is that she was
00:47:59
in Karen's house on July 7th in the middle of the night with a gun and she shot them both multiple times
00:48:08
and she murdered them. I hate that that's the truth, but it is the truth. I've never seen a case like
00:48:15
this. Daryl Burton is co-founder of Miracle of Innocence, an organization that paid for Dana Chandler's lawyers
00:48:23
and supports individuals it believes are wrongfully convicted. >> No DNA, no fingerprints, no confession,
00:48:31
no weapon. It just doesn't add up. >> In the summer of 2022, Dana Chandler was on trial for the
00:48:40
second time for the murders of Mike Cisco and Karen Harkness. As in her first trial, the defense focused on all
00:48:48
that was lacking in the case against Chandler. >> There is no evidence that she was in the
00:48:53
Harkness residence. No evidence she was in Topeka. There's no evidence she was in the state of Kansas.
00:48:58
>> Defense attorney Tom Bath insisted Dana Chandler was in Colorado at the time of
00:49:03
the murders, more than 500 miles away, and faulted investigators for zeroing in on her. Everything they looked at,
00:49:13
everything they examined excluded Dana. >> The lack of physical evidence was acknowledged by Shaunie County Deputy
00:49:20
District Attorney [music] Charles Kit. >> Science is not going to solve this case.
00:49:26
This case is not based on DNA. This >> Instead, the state focused on evidence such as Dana's hatred of her ex-husband
00:49:34
and his girlfriend. This case is based on jealousy, rage, and obsession. >> Prosecutors presented evidence they say
00:49:45
showed that obsession, including records of more than 600 phone calls Dana made to Karen and Mike in the 6 months before
00:49:53
the murders. And they introduced witnesses who said Mike and Karen told them some of those calls were menacing.
00:50:01
Yes. >> Karen's coworker, [music] Kim Warren. >> And she said she had been up all night
00:50:06
receiving phone calls from Dana. >> She told you she was afraid? >> Very afraid.
00:50:13
>> Erin Sutton also testified that her mother, Karen Harkness, was scared of Dana. She spoke about messages she said
00:50:21
she heard that Dana left on her mother's phone. >> She would call my mom horrible names.
00:50:28
>> And like what kind of names would she call her? he would call her a [ __ ] >> In addition to testimony about calls
00:50:35
Dana Chandler made, there was also attention paid to when there was no call activity on her phone, specifically
00:50:43
during 27 hours the weekend of the murders. Authorities believe Dana Chandler's phone was turned off, so it could not be
00:50:52
traced as she traveled to Kansas, but the defense suggested it could have just been Spotty's cell phone service in
00:51:00
Colorado. Prosecutors told the jury about a purchase Dana made the day before the
00:51:06
murders, but failed to mention to investigators. Kit asked Richard Voloy, the lead detective on the case, about
00:51:14
the purchase. Can you tell us what that is? >> This is an AutoZone receipt. It shows the p first two purchases were
00:51:25
$5 or 5 gallon gas cans. >> Authorities wondered why Dana didn't tell them about the gas cans and why she
00:51:33
would need gas cans unless she was planning a trip perhaps to Kansas and did not want to stop for gas along the
00:51:41
way. And there was the issue of Dana Chandler's alibi. According to Detective Voy, a changing, unconfirmable one. One
00:51:52
witness testified that Dana said she was in the mountains in Colorado at the time
00:51:57
of the murders, but Detective Voley testified Chandler told him she was at home in her Denver apartment. Uh, she
00:52:06
said she'd stayed at her house, had no guests or phone calls and that she turned in about 9:00.
00:52:12
>> A friend of Dana's testified about something authorities thought might have been a dry run for the murders. She said
00:52:19
about a month before the killings, Dana called and told her about a trip she made to Mike's home.
00:52:26
>> She told me that she knew nobody was in the house and that she went into Mike's
00:52:31
home through the window. After that, she did go to um his girlfriend's house and
00:52:39
sat outside her house waiting for them to come home, but they didn't show up. >> Did she tell you what she did when she
00:52:47
uh got into Mike's house? >> She wanted to see what it looked like on the inside,
00:52:54
>> but Dana's attorney questioned the reliability of her testimony, pointing out she may have gotten some dates wrong
00:53:01
regarding calls with Dana. It must not have been a Monday. Okay. >> But 20 years ago, you said it was a
00:53:08
Monday, right? >> Sure. >> Testimony about Chandler's behavior also came from Kathy Boots, Mike's sister.
00:53:16
>> She described an incident several years before the murders that she said she witnessed while staying at Mike's house.
00:53:23
We went to bed that night and I woke up in the early morning hours to a noise out in the backyard and we had left the
00:53:31
back porch lights on and I looked out through the blinds and Dana was jumping on the trampoline out back.
00:53:42
And Mike's brother-in-law, Mark Boots, recounted a disturbing conversation he said he had with Mike 9 days before the
00:53:51
murders. >> Mike told me that the patterns of harassment had increased and that he
00:53:57
feared for he and Karen's lives. >> Mike and Dana's daughter, Haley, was going to be in the uncomfortable
00:54:04
position of testifying against her mother. And who is Damon Chandler to you? >> She's my mom.
00:54:42
I was absolutely still nervous and and scared being up there. It causes conflict.
00:54:49
>> As Haley Seal reflected back on [music] testifying against her mother, Dana Chandler, she recalled the stress she
00:54:56
was under. As a prosecution witness, [music] Haley was asked to describe some of her mother's behavior. behavior Haley
00:55:04
said she found obsessive. >> Was there a time where you were asked to spy on your dad?
00:55:11
>> Yeah. >> Haley recounted an incident after her parents split up when she said Dana
00:55:17
drove her and her brother to Mike's home and they all sat in the car to watch the
00:55:22
house. >> She said, "Come on, we need to watch your dad. You can be my little helpers."
00:55:28
She had me go with her to the house after so long. And um and she wanted to look in the windows.
00:55:36
>> Did she look in the windows? >> Yeah, we both looked in the windows and she said, "Did you see that? Did you see
00:55:41
that?" And I said, "No, I didn't see anything." >> It was episodes like that which led
00:55:47
Haley early on to think her mother could be responsible for the murders. I always suspected she [music] had
00:55:56
something to do with it because of the history of her harassment, stalking, hatred, talking bad about them to us all
00:56:05
the time. >> Haley testified about some of the ways her mother expressed that dislike of her
00:56:11
father, like the demeaning ways Dana referred to him in emails and online chats.
00:56:17
>> Yeah. including ones where Dana referred to Mike as it >> sent when Haley was 14 years old.
00:56:25
>> Did she call him manipulative and deceiving? >> Yes. >> Uh and then calls him a rapist.
00:56:31
>> Yeah. >> And just a couple lines down, I hate his guts. >> Yeah. >> Are those things that he want to tie to
00:56:39
you? >> Yes. >> Nobody can say that that you were in Colorado that weekend. Also played in
00:56:45
court were those conversations Haley secretly recorded with her mom as she tried to learn more about Dana's
00:56:52
possible involvement in the murders. In all the conversations you had with her over the days, weeks, months, even years
00:57:00
after this happened, she never told you something that made you think, "Well, at
00:57:08
least my mom didn't do it." >> No. Every time I talked to her, I felt more and more confident that she
00:57:13
definitely had something to do with it. >> And perhaps most telling to Haley was a
00:57:18
conversation played in court where Dana said she had thought about killing Mike.
00:57:25
>> Ever think about killing him? >> No, but I did. In one of those discussions, Haley asked her mother
00:57:31
about why she bought those two gas cans, which authorities thought could have been used to help drive round trip from
00:57:38
Denver to Topeka without stopping in Kansas [music] for fuel. Dana, who'd been a problem drinker, explained she
00:57:47
bought them for someone else, a woman she met at AA. >> She asked me for money, and we don't
00:57:52
give people money in AA. I said, alcohol, buying gas. The prosecutor asked Haley if she was able to learn
00:58:00
anything more about that woman from Dana. >> She wouldn't tell you who that person
00:58:04
was. >> No, she didn't. >> But Dana's defense team argued those recorded conversations proved nothing
00:58:11
about the murders. And regarding the two gas cans, it maintained that the 10 extra gallons the
00:58:18
cans could hold would not have been enough for Dana to drive round trip from Denver to Topeka without still needing
00:58:26
to stop for fuel. The defense accused authorities of tunnel vision, including not looking
00:58:35
more thoroughly at other suspects. And her lawyer said Dana Chandler never owned a 9mm gun. the type of weapon used
00:58:44
in the murders, which was never found. What was found were unusual bullets made in Israel.
00:58:53
>> Israel Military Industries, that's the manufacturer. >> Dana's attorney questioned a firearm
00:58:59
examiner who had worked with the Kansas Bureau of Investigation about those bullets.
00:59:05
>> Is that a bullet you would ammunition you typically see? Actually, we had not
00:59:10
seen that before and so it was a little bit unusual to us. >> The prosecution though explained there
00:59:17
were places one could buy those bullets. >> Could that ammo have been brought into
00:59:21
Kansas and sold at a gun show? >> Yes, sir. >> Could have been exchanged by individuals.
00:59:25
>> Yes, sir. >> There were other parts of the investigation that the defense argued
00:59:30
supported its case. There was forensic work it said eliminated Dana Chandler. Unidentified fingerprints found at the
00:59:38
house did not match Chandler. None of Dana's DNA was found at the murder scene, nor were any fibers found from
00:59:45
her clothing or any of her hair. >> I did not find any hairs that were consistent with the known samples coming
00:59:51
from Miss Chandler. In 20 years, the state had no evidence, no evidence whatsoever that placed Dana Chandler in
01:00:01
Karen Harkness's home, in the city of Topeka, or from the state of Kansas. >> After 3 weeks of testimony, that lack of
01:00:08
physical evidence would be the defense's theme in its closing argument. >> Each and every time they tested
01:00:16
something, it excluded Dana. From the beginning, I told you this case is about obsession,
01:00:24
jealousy, rage. >> The state focused on Dana's behavior, her calls, emails, and her own family's
01:00:33
testimony against her. The >> defendant clearly hated Karen and Mike. Words from her own mouth and her own
01:00:41
fingers typing those messages. >> A lot of evidence about Dana's bad behavior. That's true. That's not
01:00:47
evidence. They have not proven this case beyond a reasonable doubt. >> On August 25th, 2022, the case went to
01:00:55
the jury and Haley was waiting for a verdict. >> I've really tried to trust the process
01:01:01
as I knew I didn't have any control over it. So, it was going to be what it was going to be.
01:01:06
>> But the wait to find out what the verdict would be was a long one. When you retire to the jury room, you
01:01:27
will first select one of your members as presiding juror. The person selected will preside over
01:01:33
>> the case in the second trial of Dana Chandler for the murders of Mike Cisco and Karen Harkness went to the jury on
01:01:40
August 25th, 2022. That day came and went, as did several more. >> Members of the jury, would you like to
01:01:53
recess for the day? >> Yes, we would like. After about 4 days, I started to get nervous and [music]
01:01:59
think, "Wow, this actually could not come back in a guilty verdict." And I started to think about that possibility.
01:02:07
And so I prayed and I just trusted that if she did get away with this that life would have to
01:02:18
go on. Right. Members of the gallery, I would ask that you just please refrain from any
01:02:25
outbursts. >> After six days of deliberating, Dana Chandler would learn her fate.
01:02:32
>> I understand that the jury is unable to reach a unanimous verdict at this time.
01:02:38
Is that correct? >> That is correct. [music] >> The jury informed the judge they were
01:02:42
deadlocked. >> You're hung at this time. Is that correct? >> There were seven votes to convict and
01:02:48
five to acquit. [music] We did what we could with what we had. >> Ben Alfred and Carrie Kimes were two
01:02:57
members of the jury who voted to find Chandler not guilty. >> I never saw actual evidence that Dana
01:03:06
Chandler was ever in the Harkness home. I can't send somebody to spend the rest of their life in prison if you can't
01:03:13
even prove she left Colorado that weekend. >> The science is not going to solve this
01:03:17
case. Everything that was tested for DNA proved inconclusive. And that's pretty remarkable.
01:03:25
>> But for juror Randy Edwards, the state's depiction of Dana Chandler's behavior
01:03:31
was persuasive evidence. >> She was beyond upset. She was obsessed. >> He also found those conversations Haley
01:03:39
recorded with her mother to be convincing and voted to convict. >> Ever think about killing it?
01:03:46
>> No, but I did. When I was able to comprehend that Dana said that she had thought of killing Mike, that was
01:03:52
probably the the piece that pushed me beyond any question of reasonable doubt anymore.
01:03:57
>> There was a split verdict, but the majority of the jury was in favor of a conviction, and that was meaningful.
01:04:05
>> DA Mike Kay decided to retry Dana Chandler. >> The next issue that we have before the
01:04:12
court is a motion to modify bond. Her lawyers convinced the court to reduce her bond, which allowed her to be
01:04:19
released with supervision as she awaited the next trial. >> The court is going to direct that she
01:04:26
have GPS monitoring. >> Welcome home. >> Welcome home, Dana. After spending more than a decade
01:04:37
incarcerated, Dana Chandler celebrated her freedom with Daryl Burton and Miracle of Innocence.
01:04:44
>> Anybody who's getting out of prison after you've been in prison for any length of time, it is. It's a joyous
01:04:49
occasion. You're happy that someone's been released and you, you know, also feel like, well, maybe it's a good
01:04:54
chance that, you know, we can, you know, mount a defense, you know, and get her totally acquitted. As a condition of her
01:05:01
release, Dana was not allowed to contact her children. Still, Haley worried about
01:05:07
her safety. She is married to Chris Seal, her high school boyfriend, and is a mother of three.
01:05:14
>> I'm scared to death that she's going to hurt me or she's going to affect my kids
01:05:22
in some way. >> Haley's fear only grew when Dana made this post to her Facebook page. Chandler
01:05:29
complained about her treatment at trial, calling it a kangaroo court. And in the
01:05:35
background, she showed images of Haley's children. Haley says Dana somehow learned which church she attended and
01:05:43
downloaded a live stream of a service to create the photos. >> It was chilling and it was disturbing. I
01:05:51
feel like it was a direct message to me. >> And what was the message? >> Intimidation. I don't care about your
01:05:58
boundaries. Her belief that her mother committed the murders remains unwavering and she says
01:06:14
disturbing. She's my mom, but if you're my mom, why would you do that to [music] my dad?
01:06:21
For your kid's sake, maybe maybe that would be a reason not to do it. Being a mother now I have a new perspective it
01:06:30
becomes even more unreal now. >> Also unreal to Haley thoughts of a third trial.
01:06:39
>> What are your expectations for yet again another trial? >> Uh this time I'm not as confident.
01:06:50
>> For trial number three, jurors would be from Pawatami County, Kansas. The defense requested a change of venue and
01:06:57
the judge agreed, citing excessive media coverage. It would take place in West Morland, a
01:07:06
smaller, more rural area 60 mi away from the last setting in Topeka. >> July 7th, 2002 was going to be a good
01:07:17
day. Mike Cisco, Karen Hartness had been in a relationship for a few years. The trial got underway with opening
01:07:25
statements on February 7th, 2025. >> One name just kept coming up. >> Dana Chandler.
01:07:34
>> Charles Kit was back retrying the case, joined by prosecutor Dan Dunar. Judge
01:07:40
Cheryl Rios again presided. And in a lastminute change on the morning of opening statements, Dana
01:07:49
Chandler dismissed her defense attorneys. >> My name is Dana Chandler. >> And Dana Chandler decided the best
01:07:57
person to represent her >> was herself. >> I am innocent. I did not kill Mike and
01:08:06
Karen. >> [music] >> I think this case is a character assassination. [music] In February 2025, Dana Chandler
01:08:32
was on trial for the third time for the murders of Mike Cisco and Karen Harkness. But this time she was
01:08:40
representing herself. >> She was exercising her constitutional right. It was an unknown. It was
01:08:47
certainly unexpected. >> One thing that was the same as in the previous trials, [music]
01:08:56
Haley Seal testified. >> Good afternoon. >> Hi. >> Can you please tell the jury your name?
01:09:03
>> Um, Haley Seal. Haley was asked again by the prosecution about her mother's inappropriate [music]
01:09:10
behavior. >> What sort of things would she say about Karen? >> She called her a home wrecker. Um,
01:09:21
a [ __ ] Very bad names. >> Prosecutors were also interested in an incident when Dana Chandler drove Haley
01:09:29
and her brother [music] to drop them off at Karen's house. We waited there for a
01:09:34
really long time in the car. Then my dad and Karen got there and my mom got out and yelled at them and just was very
01:09:47
angry with my dad. >> Haley, I don't have any further questions. Thank you. >> When it was time to be cross-examined,
01:09:54
Haley knew it would now be her mother doing the questioning. >> The seal. I really went up there with like my game
01:10:03
face on, you know? I I knew it was war. I knew it wasn't going to be a nice, a cordial, a thoughtful, you're the
01:10:10
victim, this was your dad, and I'm so sorry place that she'd be coming from. [music]
01:10:15
>> Dana Chandler challenged Haley about her description of that drop off at Karen's.
01:10:21
Chandler said it was Haley's father, Mike, who [music] was behaving badly, not her. When your dad Karen drove up,
01:10:28
your dad stormed over to the car. >> Oh, no. No, he did not. [music] >> And he started banging on the window.
01:10:35
>> What? No, no, he did not. I was inside that car and my dad absolutely did not
01:10:40
bang on the windows. >> And I didn't get out of I never got out of the car. >> You were the first one out of the car.
01:10:45
>> I was just in disbelief because I knew she just made that up because it never
01:10:51
happened and he never did that. But I didn't get concerned. [music] I just said, "No, you know, I'm glad you
01:10:59
asked so I could straighten this out." That never happened. >> And then it comes down to who's
01:11:04
believable. And I wasn't worried about that. >> As another way to seemingly explain some
01:11:12
of her past behaviors, Chandler brought up that she used to have a drinking problem.
01:11:18
>> And I did tell you that I was I realized that I had a problem with alcohol. You
01:11:22
did tell me you had a problem with elbow. >> Something Dana said she stopped by 1999,
01:11:28
three years before the murders. >> I told you I was going to three AA meetings a day
01:11:35
trying to get well. True. >> I knew you were trying to get well. Yes. >> The state questioned though if becoming
01:11:41
sober changed Chandler's behavior. >> When she came back clean and sober, did that change how she treated you?
01:11:52
No. >> Did it Did it change how she talked about your dad? >> No. >> Did it change how she talked about
01:12:00
Karen? >> No. >> Do you swear that the testimony you're out in this case happened the truth, the
01:12:09
whole truth, and nothing but the truth? American things. >> Dana Chandler not only thought she was
01:12:14
the best person to represent herself, but when it [music] was time to put on her defense, she decided she would be
01:12:21
her own main witness. >> But I feel like that I need to kind of tell my story to kind of put things in
01:12:29
perspective. >> She testified over 7 days. >> You have not seen evidence that I was in
01:12:37
Topeka, Kansas on July 7th of 2002. speaking for about 20 hours. >> I kind of like to review a little where
01:12:45
I left off. >> There was times when she would take so long to try to get her point across.
01:12:52
>> Dana Chandler's supporter Daryl Burton was concerned when she put herself on the stand
01:12:58
>> and sometime it seemed as though she was just rambling, you know, and that was
01:13:01
just unfortunate. She may have knew, she probably knew where she was trying to go, but she'd get lost.
01:13:06
>> But I continued drinking. She again addressed issues such as her drinking and inappropriate conversations with
01:13:14
Haley. >> I was writing emails from drinking to blackout. I'd get up the next morning
01:13:19
and not even remember those emails. I had a serious problem and horrible things I said about Karen spreading her
01:13:26
legs. I mean, seriously, Haley was 14 years old. I am just so ashamed and embarrassed
01:13:34
about that. And I hated that Haley that I put Haley through that. >> And Chandler in her own testimony
01:13:41
addressed again that incident when she waited outside Karen's house to drop off Haley and Dustin with the couple. She
01:13:49
said it was done out of necessity. >> I yelled through the window I could not afford to feed Haley and Dustin and that
01:13:57
I needed to leave them with him. Chandler contrasted those times to when she stopped drinking, showing videos of
01:14:05
her spending time outdoors with Haley and Dustin. >> This video was taken about 9 months into
01:14:15
my recovery. >> Dana also disputed making frequent harassing calls to Karen and Mike,
01:14:21
saying when she called, there was a reason. >> I was calling to speak with my children,
01:14:26
Haley and Dustin. As to her having disagreements with Karen Harkness, she testified there were none.
01:14:34
>> I never ever had any confrontations with Karen Harkness at all. >> Chandler also pointed out what she said
01:14:43
was sloppiness in the police investigation. When Chandler questioned lead detective Richard Voloy, she asked
01:14:49
about whether police were too focused on her and should have been looking more thoroughly at other possible suspects.
01:14:57
Did you or did you not receive any leads for other suspects besides me? >> Uh, early on in the investigation, there
01:15:07
were several other people that were looked at as possible leads. So, it's a matter of checking people off to
01:15:14
dismissing people that couldn't have done it. Uh, when we can't dismiss them, we can keep focusing on them like we did
01:15:20
with you. Chandler though said there was an area where she felt law enforcement thoroughly investigated whether she
01:15:27
bought a 9mm gun like the one used in the murders and they came up empty-handed.
01:15:34
>> I've never owned, purchased, or possessed a 9 mm firearm. And throughout her defense, Dana
01:15:43
Chandler was adamant that at the time of the murders, she was in Colorado and no
01:15:49
one could place her in Karen's house or even in [music] Kansas. [music] It seemed like a simple question Dana
01:16:14
Chandler was asking Detective Volley. >> Did you ever develop any information that I was into Kansas on July 6th or
01:16:23
7th of 2002? >> But in answering that question, Volo said there was a woman named Patty
01:16:29
Williams who may have spotted Chandler in the state of Kansas around the time of the murders. What do you know about
01:16:36
Patty Williams? >> She was a clerk at a convenience store in Waini, Kansas. >> The gas station convenience store in
01:16:42
[music] Wini, where Williams worked, was nearly halfway between Denver and Topeka. It had been visited by an
01:16:50
investigator searching for locations where someone may have spotted Chandler around the time of the murders. There,
01:16:58
the investigator showed Williams this photo of Dana. She was seven out of 10 that it was you.
01:17:06
>> According to Voley, the clerk was 70% sure she had seen Dana Chandler and described some distinguishing features.
01:17:15
>> She has or said that she had gray near the hairline. >> Chandler, [music] though, told the jury
01:17:20
she did not have gray hair back then. By the time of the trials, Williams had died and could not be questioned again.
01:17:29
Chandler also expressed concern that the investigator only showed a single photo
01:17:34
of her initially instead of an array of photos, including different people. Something Volley did do when he went to
01:17:42
the gas station about 2 weeks later. >> We later later went out with a what we call six-pack photo. It's six
01:17:50
photographs of people that look very similar and amongst those photos was Miss Chandler. Volo said Patty Williams
01:17:59
immediately picked out Chandler [music] and again was 70% sure she saw her there, but Voloy acknowledged using an
01:18:08
array initially would have been better. There was still for law enforcement the issue regarding Dana Chandler's alibi.
01:18:16
Remember, Voloy said Dana told him she was home in her Denver apartment the night of the murders, but she told
01:18:25
others, including an acquaintance, Jeff Bailey, she slept in her car in the Colorado mountains that night.
01:18:32
>> I was confused. >> Dana Chandler told the jury she [music] had been confused when she spoke with
01:18:39
Volo, but prosecutor Kit was not accepting that explanation. So, what you told Detective Oley is not consistent
01:18:46
with what you told Jeff Bailey, is it? >> Uh, as far as my trip to >> Miss Chandler, it's not consist.
01:18:54
>> Okay. Yeah, I would agree with that. Um, I would That's true. >> Have you seen that document before?
01:19:02
>> Once again, those secret recordings Haley made with her mother were played in court.
01:19:08
>> Everything about the illness? >> No, but I did. This time, Kit questioned Dana herself about its authenticity.
01:19:16
>> Was that your voice saying, "Did you ever think about killing him?" "I did." >> It sounds like it. Yes.
01:19:23
>> When it was time for the final witness, [music] Dana Chandler decided, "It should be Dana Chandler." She knew the
01:19:30
jury heard witnesses testify [music] about her parenting and past behavior. Chandler explained if she was a less
01:19:38
than [music] attentive mother, it was because of her drinking and a lack of money, not a lack of love.
01:19:46
>> I absolutely did want to have a relationship with my children. You know, I think the financial
01:19:52
the substance abuse combination um it just wasn't feasible. That's all I have. Thank you,
01:20:04
>> Mr. Sher. uh during this time that you couldn't afford to feed your children,
01:20:07
you were buying booze, correct? >> I was. >> You're buying enough alcohol to get
01:20:11
blackout drunk? >> I was. >> Okay. Thank you for the questions. [music] >> And with that, after 18 days of
01:20:20
testimony, prosecutor Charles Kit and Dana Chandler presented their closing arguments.
01:20:27
>> Why are Mike and Karen dead? And the evidence shows one simple answer. control.
01:20:35
>> I think Kit nailed it when he said it was about control. >> The state described Chandler losing
01:20:42
control of Mike as he planned his future with Karen and the rage that followed. >> And that's what led to the defendant
01:20:51
traveling to Topeka, Kansas on July 6th and murdering them on July 7th. >> Kit spoke about Chandler's depiction of
01:20:59
events not lining up with the testimony of others. It's the defendant versus everyone. You can believe the
01:21:07
defendant's testimony or you can believe everybody else that you heard from in this case.
01:21:14
>> In Dana Chandler's closing, she used a scam to make her [music] point that prosecutors, whom she called her
01:21:20
accusers, did not have enough evidence to [music] tip it in their favor. the um the accusers must uh tip the scale
01:21:33
here. I'm innocent. I have my infirmities and I have my shortcomings, but I do stand here before you all today and
01:21:45
proclaim that I am an innocent woman. She acknowledged the life she led was not perfect, but said that doesn't make
01:21:53
[music] her a murderer. >> The state has woefully failed to meet its burden to prove beyond a reasonable
01:22:01
doubt that I killed Mike Cisco or Karen Harkkins. >> About 4 hours later, the jury delivered
01:22:11
its verdict. We, the jury, find Dana Chandler guilty of murder in the first degree as charged
01:22:18
in count one. Verdict form >> guilty of the murders of Mike Cisco and Karen Harkness.
01:22:26
After hearing the verdict, Dana Chandler turned away. And while it was the verdict Haley hoped for, the end result
01:22:35
is nothing she ever [music] wanted. It is so much worse that my mom is the one behind these murders because
01:22:43
we lost my dad and Karen, but then through all this now we've lost our mom. I really wish it was someone else.
01:22:52
>> I don't believe that they have proved [music] this case beyond a reasonable doubt.
01:22:56
>> Chandler's supporter Daryl Burton remains [music] undeterred. He still believes she is innocent.
01:23:03
>> The evidence just doesn't, you know, prove [music] that she's guilty of anything.
01:23:07
Dana Chandler is filing motions for an appeal. 48 Hours reached out to Chandler again for this episode, but did not
01:23:16
receive a response. >> I am very confident in this verdict. >> District Attorney Mike Kge is certain
01:23:22
the jury convicted the right person. >> I have every [music] confidence in my prosecutors and how
01:23:30
they handled this case. >> [music] >> The focus of this case has gone almost completely to Dana Chandler
01:23:41
and that the victims has really been lost which is really sad. >> More than 20 years have passed since
01:23:51
[music] Mike Cisco and Karen Harkness were murdered and Haley wants to make sure the lives lost are not [music]
01:23:59
forgotten. I was trying to tell my daughter about who my dad is and [music] I said he was a really fun,
01:24:11
supportive, encouraging guy who believed in me and my brother and [music] Karen was so kind,
01:24:20
so accepting. I miss him a lot. 48 hours. Don't miss an episode. [music] >> [music]
01:24:59
[music] [music] [music] >> My uncle Joe's creativity made his photography so special. He had the eye
01:25:32
of a child. His sense of humor was unmatched and it really showed through all of his art.
01:25:38
>> I worked with a lot of photographers and Joe was the best. He had such a magnetic
01:25:43
personality. >> Every picture [music] I see, he just looks so charismatic, bright blue eyes.
01:25:48
>> Yes. anytime he'd see you, hey, like his mouth like lit up, his eyes went wide.
01:25:54
If you were judging somebody by their appearance, you'd say, you know, he's a he's a jock. And then you talk to him
01:25:59
for 2 minutes [music] and he's this deep soul that was a school teacher in DC. When you were with him, you wanted to be
01:26:08
better. I got a call from my dad and he's like, "We can't find Uncle Joe." I knew right away that something really
01:26:19
[music] sinister had happened. >> 911 emergency. What is your name? >> My name is Heather Snider.
01:26:27
>> I'm Heather Snyder. I'm Joe Shamansky's ex-wife. >> Okay, Heather, tell me exactly what
01:26:32
happened. >> I was returning my two children to my [music] ex's house. He's missing. We
01:26:38
don't know where he is. >> His car was there. His phone was there. His wallet was there. Where [music] is
01:26:43
he? >> All right. So, we are here because your h your ex-husband Joe is missing right
01:26:48
now. >> It was surreal. Like, what's going on? >> We all knew Joe wasn't missing. We all
01:26:54
knew Joe was gone and it [music] was just a couple of days later that they had found his remains.
01:27:02
>> So, at that point, this had gone from a missing person's case to a homicide. >> Technically, yeah.
01:27:07
>> It's like I'm living in a horror movie. >> Are you in any relationship right now?
01:27:12
Upon questioning Heather, they asked her who her last boyfriend was, and she mentioned Brandon Hullbrook.
01:27:20
>> The police focused in on Brandon Hullbrook as the sole perpetrator. >> Brandon Hullbrook had no motive.
01:27:27
>> There are no forensics linking my client to this crime. >> This story is not about a guy who
01:27:34
decided to drive 200 miles and kill a man that he had never met. Do you think Heather Snider played some
01:27:41
role in your uncle's murder? >> Yes. I wish I had answers. I don't know anything.
01:27:48
>> It's a big twist in the story. >> Describe. >> We know each other. >> We do. We grew up together.
01:27:55
>> We did. >> Heather Snider I grew up with was an A student. >> Mhm. >> Cheerleader, field hockey player.
01:28:04
>> Mhm. One of the most unlikely people to be caught up in a murder case. Correct.
01:28:09
>> Did you have any involvement at all in Joe Shamansky's murder? >> No. >> Do you believe any of it?
01:28:15
>> No. >> We need to piece the pieces of the puzzle together. We know there's more to
01:28:20
this story. We can't rest until the whole truth comes out. >> [music] [music] >> The investigation of Joe Shamansky's
01:29:14
murder began as a missing person's case. >> Yellow. >> Hi. >> Where's everybody at?
01:29:21
>> Um, I'm not sure where everyone went. They have the drone up. It was September
01:29:26
4th, 2023 at 7:47 p.m. when sheriff's deputies in Calvert County, Maryland were called to the home of the
01:29:33
well-known photographer. >> How are you doing tonight? >> I'm Heather. I'm I'm Joe's ex-wife.
01:29:41
>> Okay. >> His ex-wife, Heather Snider, met them in the driveway. She would tell authorities
01:29:46
she had arrived by card about 700 p.m. from her home in Pennsylvania. Um, I was supposed to return the kids to him
01:29:54
>> at 7:00 tonight >> to hand off custody of their then 8-year-old daughter and [music]
01:29:59
seven-year-old son. [snorts] >> Kids went in the house cuz he he usually just comes right out like he knows that
01:30:06
they're coming. >> But nobody was home. Heather had checked with the neighbors and called 911.
01:30:13
>> Yeah. I don't know what I even should do at this point. Everything about it is weird.
01:30:19
>> Okay. >> All the signs suggested Joe Shamansky should be there. His car was in the
01:30:25
driveway. >> Joe, you home? >> His keys and phones were in the house. Authorities started searching the
01:30:32
property. >> So, I'm going to try to put the drone up. Do >> you know if he ever goes out hiking in
01:30:45
the woods or anything? >> I mean, I wouldn't put it past him. >> I answered their questions about
01:30:53
everything. They asked, you know, the situation. >> Among other things, investigators wanted
01:30:59
to know about Heather and Joe's divorce from the previous year. >> I know it was very contentious, so there
01:31:05
was a lot of arguing. Specifically, the drop off location for the kids was their
01:31:09
biggest argument. Joe Shamansky's neighbors, Allison Stinson Poundsberry and Colton Poundsberry, were home that
01:31:16
night when Heather Snyder knocked on the door. >> She had asked me if Joe was here. I
01:31:22
said, "No." How was Heather acting? So, Heather was acting a little annoyed. Um,
01:31:28
she was annoyed that he wasn't here for drop off after she had already driven 4 hours.
01:31:32
>> The Poundsberries went to Joe Shamansky's home, telling authorities they hadn't seen Joe since the previous
01:31:39
afternoon. Yeah, we saw him yesterday about 4:00. He was helping me with some drywall.
01:31:43
>> Okay. >> We gave him some dinner. >> Any depression issues? >> Not that I noticed. What do you think is
01:31:49
going on? >> I have no idea. >> Okay. All right. >> Yeah. >> The Poundsberries ended up giving
01:31:56
Heather and the kids places to sleep for the night. [music] But first, Heather went inside Joe's
01:32:02
house. >> I didn't have any clothes for the kids, so it was late at night. They let me go
01:32:06
in and get pajamas. Do you remember how you were feeling when you went inside? Upset.
01:32:13
>> It was surreal. >> Fine. >> No, you're fine. Absolutely fine. It's a lot to deal with.
01:32:19
>> I mean, do you have ever been kids? What are you going to tell him? [music] >> How could he not be there? Especially
01:32:25
knowing that the kids are going to be there. >> It was about 2 and 1/2 hours later that
01:32:30
Heather Snider called Joe's older brother, Ted Shamansky. And Ted's wife, also named Heather. I felt like I was
01:32:37
like punched in the stomach. >> So there was no way in the world that Joe would have missed this meeting with
01:32:43
the kids. This isn't this something's wrong. >> It fell to Ted to deliver the news to
01:32:47
the Shamansky sister Mary. >> When I heard that Joe was missing, I fell to my knees and said a prayer
01:32:55
because this was such a bizarre situation. It felt like I needed I needed something greater than me right
01:33:02
away. And then the morning after Joe disappeared, investigators noticed something they'd been unable to see at
01:33:09
night. There was blood in his driveway. >> Did Joe have any enemies? Not that we
01:33:16
knew of. >> An investigator asked Heather Snider to come to the station. >> Do you know of anybody that that'd be an
01:33:24
enemy of his? >> No. >> Are you in any relationship right now? >> No. >> No boyfriends or
01:33:31
>> No. But Heather told them she had recently broken up with someone who lived near her in Pennsylvania.
01:33:38
>> I had a boyfriend, but briefly, but I don't >> recently. >> Yeah, within the last couple months.
01:33:46
Yeah. >> What's his name? >> Brandon Hullbrook. >> The name Brandon Hullbrook entered the
01:33:54
scene quite quickly. >> The Shamanskys say Joe told them he'd never met Brandon Hullbrook.
01:34:00
>> Sorry. How long were you and Ren together? >> We were friends for a while. Um, since
01:34:06
20 2022, I want to say >> you're okay. >> Or it might have been like November 2021.
01:34:16
>> Authorities then decided to look more closely at Brandon Hullbrook. They pulled his car registration and
01:34:22
discovered a camera had picked up his license plate near Joe's house the very day Joe vanished. Investigators now had
01:34:30
a person of interest and headed to Pennsylvania notifying police there. >> This one was definitely different than
01:34:38
anything that we've seen before. On September 5th, 2023, Sergeant John Chester of the Mifflin County,
01:34:56
Pennsylvania police got a call that Maryland authorities were investigating a homicide. They wanted to talk to a
01:35:03
person of interest, Brandon Hullbrook. >> We've arrested Mr. Hullbrook in the past.
01:35:11
Over the years, Hullbrook had pleaded guilty to at least five counts of indecent exposure.
01:35:18
They approached his house at about 11 p.m. >> This is where you walked up. >> Yes.
01:35:26
>> An investigator noted Hullbrook's eyes were bloodshot and that there was a strange particular smell both on him and
01:35:34
the covered bed of his pickup in the driveway. This truck reeks. Oh man, that smells
01:35:40
terrible. Yeah, >> it smelled like death. >> Holbrook told authorities he was a driver for a Pennsylvania plant that
01:35:48
processes chicken slaughterhouse waste. >> Just have a seat right in there, bud.
01:35:52
>> He denied being near Joe's house or anywhere in Maryland the day Joe disappeared.
01:35:57
>> We knew his truck was in Maryland. >> One police report indicates he also denied any contact with Joe. Another
01:36:05
says he was not being entirely truthful and appeared nervous. So in the early morning hours of September 6th, 2023,
01:36:14
investigators arrested Brandon Hullbrook for the murder of Joe Shamansky. By then, detective Jessica Arent had
01:36:21
reported for duty. >> I was called in when they got back to the station with him
01:36:26
>> and helped them get warrants for Hullbrook's truck and house. We still didn't know the magnitude of what we
01:36:32
were dealing with. >> In the truck cab, investigators found gloves and plastic sheeting. And in the
01:36:39
truck bed, something described as human blood. >> It looked like a homicide scene.
01:36:47
>> There were firearms in the house, and plastic garbage [music] bags, bleach, Lysol, and wet tools in a trailer
01:36:56
outside. in the garage. >> There was an open tool case. >> And next to it, an open package of
01:37:04
[music] power saw blades, but investigators didn't spot a matching saw. Is that a tool that's powerful enough to
01:37:13
dismember a body? Possibly. Authorities with cadaver dogs began following a dirt road caddy cornered to
01:37:22
Brandon Hullbrook's house leading into the woods. The next day, they made a grizzly discovery in a clearing near a
01:37:30
creek. >> They found the jawbone with some of the ear and some teeth still intact.
01:37:38
>> Incident reports show there was also a burn barrel which smelled of decomposition scattered nearby. Piles of
01:37:46
ash. Authorities sent the material off for testing, [music] but they had a strong hunch they were human remains.
01:37:53
and a strong hunch who's >> it's a hope that we can keep this memory alive. >> Fearing the worst, Joe Shamansky's
01:38:02
[music] family and friends gathered in Washington. >> He was a person that would give you his
01:38:08
shirt off his back even in a rainstorm. >> Joe met Alton McDougall in 2000 [music]
01:38:16
after coming to DC to teach middle school history and social studies. Alton says Joe became his mentor, exposing him
01:38:24
to new ideas and to photography. He taught you how to see the world. >> Yes, through a lens.
01:38:34
>> They eventually became friends, says Alton, and partnered in the photo business at Eastern Market. That's where
01:38:40
[music] Joe first started dating Heather Snider. She was then a single mom of three kids and was running a vegetable
01:38:47
business. He was fun, very charming. Then he swept you off your feet. >> He did.
01:38:55
>> Heather and Joe married in July 2014 and bought a house in rural Calbertt County.
01:39:00
Heather gave birth [music] to a daughter and a son a year later, but Joe's family
01:39:05
and friends say by 2020 the marriage was in trouble. >> Heather Snyder and Joe Shamansky were
01:39:11
never on equal [music] footing financially. >> The spinning was definitely a problem.
01:39:19
Alton says Joe wrote Heather a check for thousands of dollars to pay off a debt on a house she owned. Then he gave her
01:39:26
more money to help her [music] launch a new business. >> I used to tell him all the time, "She's
01:39:32
using you." >> Heather Snider says that's not true. She was never after Joe's money. She blames
01:39:40
the difficulties in the marriage on Joe, saying he could behave erratically, and
01:39:44
that he started pushing her and her older children away after their own kids were born. [music]
01:39:50
Joe's attention was just on the those two children. It was almost obsessive to a degree. It was he cared less about
01:40:01
what I thought or what I was saying. And it was all about those two. She says Joe was emotionally abusive to
01:40:11
her and there was one instance she claims when he got physical. He body checked me into a car
01:40:19
and that was after chasing me around the house. >> The Shamansky family says Heather's
01:40:25
abuse allegations don't match the Joe they knew. By 2021, Heather says she'd had enough.
01:40:33
I was afraid he was going to snap and hurt me and then my children were going to see it and he just left. I left.
01:40:43
He was devastated. Joe's friend, Anna Lee Warner, noticed it, too. >> That spark that made Joe Joe was gone.
01:40:53
It was gone. >> Heather had moved back to her hometown of Newport, Pennsylvania. She told
01:40:59
investigators that it was a few months later that she began seeing Brandon Hullbrook. All the while, St. Joe's
01:41:06
friends and family, he and Heather were arguing over custody and cash. It got so
01:41:12
bad, Heather says she began recording their interactions around the kids. Anelise says Joe was also upset and made
01:41:20
recordings too about Heather for their children to hear one day. >> The mom has a way of manipulating
01:41:26
everyone. everyone. She's toxic. Honestly, I am honestly afraid for your mental and emotional safety.
01:41:35
>> There's no safety in mom for me. It's dangerous to be close to mom for me. >> Joe was in a contentious, ugly divorce.
01:41:44
>> But Anelise says things had slowly started going Joe's way. Though he and Heather had joint legal custody of the
01:41:51
[music] kids, he had primary physical custody once school was in session. He'd bought a million dollar life
01:41:58
insurance policy, naming [music] the children as beneficiaries. And just weeks before he vanished, the
01:42:04
court had [music] reduced the settlement he owed Heather Snider. Joe had started
01:42:09
winning. >> Analy and the Shamansky [music] family say thinking back over the former
01:42:15
couple's problems, they began to wonder if Heather Snider could have known more about Joe's disappearance than she was
01:42:23
saying. In midepptember 2023, forensic [music] experts matched the remains that they found in that clearing
01:42:45
near Brandon Hullbrook's house to Joe Shamansky. Mifflin County Coroner Andrea Alcala.
01:42:55
>> What was Joe Shamansky's cause of death? >> Uh, he had a gunshot wound to the head.
01:42:59
What was his manner of homicide? >> Could you just state your name? >> My name is Brandon Hullbrook.
01:43:08
This is This thing has my whole head messed up. >> Authorities had uncovered evidence that
01:43:14
didn't look good for Brandon Hullbrook. We knew the white truck had been in Maryland based on the license plate
01:43:20
reader had read the tag and the tag matched the vehicle that was sitting here. >> And with the saw blades in Hullbrook's
01:43:27
garage, the cleaning supplies and tools in his trailer [music] and Joe's remains
01:43:32
in the clearing nearby, it all seemed to suggest that Hullbrook had killed Joe in
01:43:36
Maryland [music] and brought his body to Pennsylvania. But for all the evidence investigators
01:43:44
had, the case still contained some inconvenient truths. >> Did you find any of Josh Mansky's
01:43:50
remains on Brandon Hullbrook's property? >> No. Did you find a murder weapon? >> No.
01:43:58
>> In addition, records show Hullbrook's phone had only ping towers near his Pennsylvania home. The afternoon and
01:44:04
evening Joe disappeared. And remember, images of Hullbrook's truck in Maryland did not show who was driving. And when
01:44:13
the blood in the truck bed was tested, it wasn't human. It was animal. Because he had access to the chicken plant, did
01:44:20
he put stuff in there and cover it up with the chicken remains. >> Joe's family and friends had trouble
01:44:27
believing Hullbrook could have devised such an elaborate plot without help. I do not believe that Brandon Hullbrook is
01:44:34
the only person involved in my brother's death. I think he was highly inspired by
01:44:38
Heather Snider. Heather Snider is the common denominator in this entire picture. Alton McDougall also thinks
01:44:45
Heather Snider was involved a few days before Joe went missing. Alton says they were hanging out and Joe told him
01:44:52
Heather was coming over to drop off the kids instead of meeting halfway between their homes like they usually did. Alton
01:45:00
says he told Joe that concerned him. >> I just don't want her to come to your house, dude. I just don't trust her.
01:45:07
>> He says Joe dismissed his concern, but the conversation haunts him to this day.
01:45:14
>> I get chills right now. >> What are you feeling? >> That if he'd listened to you, he might
01:45:26
still be here. I mean, he might be right. >> Jill's family and friends acknowledged
01:45:36
their suspicion of Heather Snider was just a gut feeling [music] and that the investigation hasn't turned up any
01:45:42
evidence of her involvement. Nevertheless, Alton says he shared his speculation with authorities.
01:45:49
>> Heather at least planned it. Her boyfriend had least helped. He says he and the family find it
01:45:57
strange that Heather Snder reported Joe is missing before he was even an hour late.
01:46:03
>> You're jumping to >> he's missing >> that he's missing like >> call the police.
01:46:07
>> I mean and you're going to call 911. >> Especially they say because she had then
01:46:12
waited more than 2 and 1/2 hours to notify them. >> That seems extraordinary long period of
01:46:19
time before she'd let the immediate family know that Joe was missing. And they questioned Heather's behavior when
01:46:26
she went in Joe's house with investigators. >> And she walks in the house and she
01:46:30
begins to cry, >> sobbing over her ex-husband that she would do anything to get away from.
01:46:39
>> They suspected it was all an act, something Heather Snider denies. >> She just wanted to paint a picture that
01:46:46
he was missing because she knew the plan. And the [music] Shamanskys believe she
01:46:53
was untruthful with investigators about Brandon Hullbrook. >> Are you in any relationship right now?
01:46:59
>> No. >> She told the police that she broke up with him and that they were no longer
01:47:03
together. Bull. >> Janine says she suspects Heather had used Brandon Hullbrook to get rid of
01:47:12
Joe. >> So she just needed it done and she found her person that would do that for
01:47:17
[music] her. You think Heather Schneider was the mastermind? >> Yes. Is there any doubt in your mind?
01:47:22
No. >> Brandon Hullbrook was in custody and authorities had combed the clearing, but
01:47:29
weeks later, Mary Shamansky was visiting the site when she found more burnt remains. She acknowledges searchers may
01:47:37
have simply missed them in the woods. But she and coroner Andrea Alcal believe there's another possibility.
01:47:44
>> I think the more likely is that there were remains dumped after the fact. That would mean they were dumped by
01:47:52
someone else. >> That's a bombshell. Yeah. >> But Alcal says Maryland authorities seem
01:47:59
skeptical. The Calvert County Sheriff's Office declined our request for an interview. Still, the theory that
01:48:05
someone else was involved in Joe's death is a point Hullbrook's attorneys will argue from the start of his trial. Only
01:48:12
one person's life is better today than it was before the murder of Joseph Schumansky, and that is Heather Snyder.
01:48:20
Did you have anything to do with Joe's death? >> I did not. On March 31st, 2025, the trial of
01:48:39
Brandon Hullbrook for the murder of Joe Shamansky got underway. Prosecutors wanted a conviction on premeditated
01:48:46
murder. They argued Hullbrook fatally shot Joe Shamansky in Maryland, [music] drove him back to Pennsylvania, put
01:48:54
chicken parts in his truck to cover his tracks, [music] then disposed of Joe's remains in that clearing near
01:49:00
Hullbrook's house. And they brought in the barrel searchers found, [music] suggesting it was used to burn him. But
01:49:07
Hullbrook's defense team says it was a tactic. >> It was there for the emotional impact.
01:49:14
>> There were no cameras allowed in court. Defense attorney Brendan Callahan tried
01:49:18
to turn the jury's attention away from Brandon Hullbrook and towards Heather Snyder. She was mentioned more than 400
01:49:26
times at trial. Though she hasn't been charged with a crime, >> the only person with an obvious motive
01:49:33
was Heather Snyder. She was in a a heated custody fight that she was not going well for her.
01:49:39
>> And Callahan told the jury Heather Snider had a million other reasons, too. If Joe was dead, Callahan said she might
01:49:47
stand to gain control of his life insurance payout since her children, the beneficiaries, are still minors.
01:49:54
>> When you throw in the million-dollar life insurance policy, the the motives write themselves.
01:49:59
>> Heather told us she knew nothing about Joe's life insurance before he died. Prosecutors kept the focus on Hullbrook.
01:50:07
They introduced videos of his truck near [music] Joe's house in Maryland the day
01:50:12
Joe disappeared. Hullbrook shopping for cleaning supplies in Pennsylvania the morning after.
01:50:19
And video that's hard to see, but that they say shows Hullbrook near his white truck dumping something which turned out
01:50:27
to be burned human remains. It put the defense in a corner. >> There's evidence that he is involved
01:50:36
at some point, but there's very little evidence that he's the one who committed the actual murder. And while Brandon
01:50:42
Hullbrook's truck might have been spotted near [music] Joe's house that day, Callahan says someone else could
01:50:48
have been driving it. >> Brandon Hullbrook had absolutely no reason to kill Joseph Shamansky.
01:50:57
>> The state contended Hullbrook did have a motive. Love for Heather Snyder and hate
01:51:02
[music] for Joe Shamanssky. Intense enough that Hullbrook took matters into his own hands.
01:51:09
This man was obsessed with Heather Snider. >> Prosecutors painted a picture of that
01:51:15
obsession, showing an image taken nearly 7 months before the murder of a car Hullbrook also owned near Joe's house.
01:51:23
And they showed a text exchange between Heather and Holbrook from January 21st, 2023, also months before the murder, in
01:51:31
which she is complaining about Joe. I'm just tired of the abuse, Heather told him. It's been years upon years.
01:51:39
Holbrook later suggested she see a therapist, but added, "I have other solutions in mind, but probably not the
01:51:46
best way to go." >> That could mean a lot of things. I mean, it's very easy to read in it the most
01:51:52
nefarious intent, and that's what the state tried to do in this case. But it could mean just about anything. It could
01:51:59
be a joke. >> Whatever it meant, Heather didn't respond to Hullbrook immediately. She
01:52:05
later texted him, "I'm looking for a therapist." Do you think how could Heather Snider
01:52:11
possibly not know? >> There's a lot in this case that you could say that for about Heather Snider
01:52:18
and her behavior around the the time of the incident is overall very suspicious.
01:52:26
Callahan's co-consel Thomas Mooney points to texts between Heather and Hullbrook, suggesting they were still
01:52:32
involved shortly before the murder. >> She indicated to the police, but that the relationship had had cooled.
01:52:40
>> No boyfriends or >> No, I had a >> but the text messages seemed to suggest otherwise.
01:52:46
>> 6 days before the murder, Hullbrook wrote, "I like the smell of your hair on my pillow." And later in the day, she
01:52:53
texted, "Wish I was in your bed." The next morning, he wrote back, "You can come to my bed anytime, XO."
01:53:02
>> Heather Snider is lying to the police and saying that she didn't have an involvement with Hullbrook.
01:53:08
>> In another text, Heather complains specifically about her custody agreement with Joe. "I keep thinking karma is
01:53:16
going to catch up with him," she wrote. "But I'm tired of being patient." Anything that suggests
01:53:23
that there were other people involved makes Brandon Hullbrook's role in this unclear
01:53:31
and therefore is suggestive of his innocence. But prosecutors introduced Tech, suggesting Heather Snyder was surprised
01:53:40
to find Joe missing when she got to his house. "I have no idea where he is," she
01:53:45
wrote to Hullbrook. "The car is [music] here." Both the defense and the prosecutors wanted to question Heather
01:53:52
under oath. But when she was called as a witness, she declined to testify, invoking her fifth amendment privilege.
01:54:01
What does Heather Snider pleading the fifth say to you? >> That a truthful answer could tend to
01:54:07
incriminate her. >> And Callahan wanted the jury to consider something else about Heather Snider.
01:54:14
>> She had a gun. >> She did. Heather had told authorities about a gun Hullbrook had given her
01:54:20
before the murder, but there were never any bullets or casings found, [music] so
01:54:24
it would have been impossible to tell if it was the murder weapon. Still, Callahan says authorities were slow to
01:54:31
collect it from her. >> That wasn't investigated until weeks before the trial started, even though
01:54:36
they knew about it. >> And he says they failed to ever search Heather's home or property. She has
01:54:43
acres of land that the police are on that land and they don't even ask to look around. They just take her word for
01:54:51
everything. >> Prosecutors say there was a thorough investigation and they saved what might
01:54:57
be the most explosive evidence for near the end of their case. There's no way Heather could have killed Joe. They say
01:55:04
why? The afternoon Joe disappeared, you can see Heather on video buying pizza in
01:55:10
Pennsylvania about three hours away. Heather Snider has an alibi. I mean, she's on surveillance video buying pizza
01:55:18
miles away. >> Yes. >> She couldn't have physically gotten there in time. >> Yes. But there are all sorts of
01:55:25
different roles that one can play in a crime. He says Heather could have encouraged
01:55:32
Brandon Hullbrook or at least known about his plan. Hullbrook doesn't take the stand, but in closing, his attorneys
01:55:39
remind the jury there's no proof he was even in Maryland that evening, let alone
01:55:44
at Joe Shamansky's house. the burden is on the state and we thought that they presented a strong
01:55:54
case that he was involved after the fact, but we're still waiting on the evidence that he was ever in that
01:56:02
driveway. >> But it took just 80 minutes for the jury to reach a verdict. Brandon Hullbrook is
01:56:08
guilty of the firstdegree premeditated murder of Joe Shamansky. >> How are you feeling?
01:56:16
extremely happy. >> Joe's loved ones were happy [music] but not satisfied. At sentencing, Analy
01:56:23
Warner presented a photo montage of Joe that also included some of those audio recordings about Heather that he made
01:56:30
for their children. >> And I'm worried about you guys growing up in a world where you're afraid of
01:56:38
mom. She takes her love away from you and if you piss her off, you're done. few minutes.
01:56:45
>> And then a number of friends and family addressed the court, suggesting Heather
01:56:49
could also be at least in [music] part to blame for what happened. The judge gave Hullbrook life without parole and
01:56:57
said he was not closing the book on the case. You're at the center of this case.
01:57:02
I am. [music] >> No. >> Do you remember the last time we saw each other before this story reconnected
01:57:24
us? >> I believe it was at homecoming in 1998. Heather. >> It was more than 25 years ago here on
01:57:32
our high school sports fields in tiny Newport, Pennsylvania. Heather Snider and I had grown up together. In fact, I
01:57:39
was the 1997 homecoming queen and she was my successor. >> I put a crown on your head and now here
01:57:47
we are. And we're back. We hadn't communicated since then until reporting this story brought me back to some of
01:57:55
the most familiar terrain of my life. But it's taken me into uncharted territory in the process, confronting
01:58:01
someone from my youth who has been caught up in a murder case. Heather told me she wanted to set the record
01:58:07
straight. She agreed to the interview with no questions off limits. [music] She acknowledged she was upset with Joe
01:58:14
during their custody fight. Did you ever say to Brandon Hullbrook, "I wish Joe were dead."
01:58:20
>> No. The most I said to Brandon was that I thought Joe should be in jail for the
01:58:24
way he was acting. Did Brandon tell you he wanted to kill Joe? >> No. >> Did you help him cover it up?
01:58:29
>> Nope. >> No. >> So, what about those texts between her and Brandon Hullbrook? Like when he
01:58:37
mentions other solutions to help deal with Joe? >> I thought it was a just a joke. It
01:58:42
didn't cross her mind for a second. Then he might hurt Joe. >> No. >> As for her text about karma catching up
01:58:48
with Joe in which she wrote she was tired of being patient. >> That's how I was feeling. Do you think a
01:58:55
text like that may have triggered Brandon? >> I don't know. Heather, who at the time
01:59:00
was in that custody fight with Joe, says she ended her relationship with Brandon
01:59:05
Hullbrook about a month before the murder when Hullbrook had been arrested again for indecent exposure. What was
01:59:12
the reason that you told Brandon you needed to end the relationship? Because of his charge.
01:59:20
The Shamansky suspect Heather was [music] actually worried if Joe heard she was dating a sex offender, she would
01:59:26
lose custody of their kids. They believe Heather continued to secretly see Hullbrook. About a week before Joe went
01:59:34
missing, Brandon Hullbrook texts you, "I like the smell of your hair on my pillow."
01:59:40
>> He did? >> Mhm. >> Were you with him? >> I stopped by his house. >> It sounds like you're still involved.
01:59:46
>> We were friends. that you were intimate. Then >> we were friends. >> Heather also texted Brandon, "Wish I was
01:59:55
in your bed." Weren't you and Brandon still involved this whole time? We weren't. We weren't. People were going
02:00:02
to watch and say, "You're lying." >> We were friends, so it was hard to give up a friend.
02:00:11
Why was there a smell of your hair on his pillow? >> Cuz I was probably laying on his pillow.
02:00:15
She says they were only talking. What did you talk about? >> That was the last time.
02:00:24
It was just like it was almost like a goodbye, honestly. >> What did [music] Brandon say? Was he
02:00:30
upset? >> We were both upset. We were both crying. >> Heather told us that even after Joe's
02:00:38
murder, [music] I still have love for Brandon. >> Wow. >> Wow. Is right. >> How? I don't I think
02:00:49
obviously psychologically he snapped over something. It's not like I don't think he should be in jail. I think he
02:00:57
did something horrible, horrific. He hurt my family. He hurt me. If you could see him face to face, what would
02:01:05
be your first question? Why? What happened? And while she hasn't seen him in person,
02:01:12
she did have a chance to ask him. Shortly before his sentencing, she accepted his call from jail.
02:01:18
>> This call will be recorded and is subject to monitoring at any time. >> Heather tells Hullbrook she believes
02:01:24
Joe's family is trying to incriminate her. >> Are trying to prove that I did something
02:01:30
wrong. >> Never in a million years will I say you had anything to do with this. I swear.
02:01:35
>> I didn't. I just wish I knew what happened. No, I just want the truth. >> Holbrook tells her.
02:01:41
>> I I would love to tell you everything that I know, but I'm not going to do it
02:01:45
on one of those recorded lines. >> And then he denies killing Joe. >> I'll tell you one thing for sure. I
02:01:52
never saw Joe, talked to Joe, had any interaction at whatsoever with Joe his entire life. I promise you that. Heather
02:02:03
says Holbrook never confessed to her and she never had an inkling of his plans. She says there is nothing suspicious
02:02:10
about her calling 911 so quickly when she didn't find Joe at the house. She says it was her divorce attorney who
02:02:17
advised her to make the call and a criminal lawyer who advised her to [music] plead the fifth in the trial.
02:02:23
Did you have something to hide? >> No. If you don't have anything to hide, why not just get up there and [music]
02:02:29
testify? >> People twist your words. and the words Joe used to describe Heather in those audio messages.
02:02:37
>> It's dangerous [music] to be close to mom for me. >> Heather told us Joe was twisting reality
02:02:43
at the time. She says Joe was the dangerous one. And she created a website, Heather's abuse story,
02:02:49
detailing her side. We also asked Heather about that gun she says Brandon Hullbrook gave her before Joe's murder.
02:02:57
She says it was only for target practice. Is there any chance that gun is the murder weapon?
02:03:03
>> I don't know. No, I mean, obviously it was locked in my closet. >> Is there anything you're not telling us?
02:03:10
>> No. >> Look me in the eye. Are you lying about anything? >> I am [clears throat] not.
02:03:17
>> Either you're a bold-faced liar or you are extraordinarily unlucky. >> I am unlucky.
02:03:27
Heather says her focus is on raising her and Joe's children, and she's sad that they'll grow up without a father.
02:03:34
>> Miss, >> they have a very happy memories of their father, and I try I try to do what I can to honor and keep
02:03:44
that safe. >> She knows the Shamanskys want to see the kids, but says Joe's relatives can't
02:03:52
expect a full relationship with them while publicly pointing a finger at her. There needs to be a place we move on
02:04:00
>> other than this where they're constantly blaming me for something that I didn't
02:04:05
do. >> Are you afraid authorities will come for you? >> No. Not at all. >> I'm not worried at all. No.
02:04:15
>> If Joe never met Hutter Snider, Joe would be alive today. Calvert County, Maryland's top
02:04:21
prosecutor, Robert Harvey, declined our request for an interview, but wrote to us that there was a thorough and
02:04:26
exhaustive investigation into Mr. Shamansk's death. Mr. Hullbrook received a fair and impartial trial. Because Mr.
02:04:34
Hullbrook's case is under appeal, it remains open. Therefore, I'm not going to respond to questions regarding the
02:04:40
investigation, and I'm not going to speculate on what may or may not happen in the future. And when we asked
02:04:48
Pennsylvania authorities about Heather Snider, >> is there a current investigation into
02:04:52
Heather Snyder? >> I can't answer that question. Should there be? I can't answer that question.
02:05:01
>> Do you think Heather Snyder is involved in this crime in any way? >> I can't answer that.
02:05:07
>> But you do know the answer. >> Yes, but I'm not allowed to say. So many people watching are going to be
02:05:17
frustrated and they're going to think it it just >> logically you have to have known
02:05:22
something, >> right? But I didn't. That's the torturous part because people will, it's almost like they want to
02:05:35
believe that I was involved with it. They want that true crime narrative and it just simply wasn't the case.
02:06:19
>> [music] >> So, Captain, just where are we? What is this place? >> So, we're in the town of Kingsbury at
02:06:44
the bridge that goes over the canal on New Swamp Road. >> July 24th, 2005. Investigators are
02:06:50
called out here. What brought them out here? >> So, we had a report that a fisherman had
02:06:55
been going by. He saw what he thought to be a toolbox that goes in the back of a
02:06:59
pickup truck floating. >> What did investigators find inside that toolbox? Uh they found a woman's body
02:07:05
that was uh duct taped and handcuffed and wrapped in a comforter. It was terrible. It was a terrible thing to
02:07:10
see. [music] >> In January of 1996, I just finished my first semester of college in upstate New
02:07:22
York. My ex-boyfriend Shawn Doyle and I had been broken up for [music] approximately 4 months. My name is Cece
02:07:29
Opinowski. My mother was going away for the weekend, so I had this whole big house to myself and my friend Shannon
02:07:36
and I, [music] we were very close. I said, "Well, let's stay at my house cuz there's no one around." It was just a
02:07:42
girl's night. We just wanted to chill out. >> You know, it's winter, it's cold, we
02:07:46
built a fire. My parents had a [music] great stereo system. So, you know, we put on some music and danced around and,
02:07:52
you know, just did girl stuff. >> We both went to Sage Junior College, Albany. I'm really introvert. and she
02:07:59
was very bubbly and happy and chipper and she just she brought me out of my shell.
02:08:05
>> When you were first meeting her, was Shawn Doyle around at the time? >> Yes. He was obnoxious. She would argue
02:08:12
with him a lot on the phone. >> And then in January is when this incident happens at her
02:08:18
house. >> Mhm. We were having a good time. It was just the two of us, >> but he keeps calling.
02:08:23
>> Mhm. Wanting to know what we were doing, wanting to know if he can come over. She
02:08:28
had a cell phone and I was like, "Just [music] turn it off." Like, she's like, "No, cuz if I turn it off, he's going to
02:08:33
come here. We finally wake up and all we wanted was coffee." I had the of the mindset. I'm
02:08:40
like, "Oh, I can't go out in public looking like I'm a mess. Let me go home and get dressed." So, Shannon leaves and
02:08:47
I get up and go around the house doing whatever, watching TV, you know, being a lazy teenager. And I get a knock at the
02:08:54
door and I open it [music] and it's him. and he said, "I just want to talk to you." And once he was inside, things got
02:09:04
much different. He pushed me onto the couch, started, you know, holding me down and restraining [music] me and, you
02:09:09
know, yelling at me. And he picked me up and pushed me against the French doors and [music] kept banging me against the
02:09:17
French doors. After I got done out of the shower getting ready, I called. Nobody
02:09:24
answered. My hair was in a ponytail and he [music] picked me up, held me up, and cut my
02:09:31
hair off. He was gone. Just all of it. He had already been choking me and I thought he was going to stab me. I
02:09:39
called her back a half an hour later. She still didn't answer. And [music] that's when
02:09:44
my eyebrows kind of went up. >> I'm in complete shock. I can't believe it's happening and I have to figure out
02:09:49
how to get out of it. But during this [music] time, the phone continues to ring.
02:09:54
I waited a couple minutes and I called her back. >> I explained to him if I don't answer
02:09:59
this phone, my mother will call the police. So, I do pick up the phone and [music] it's Shannon.
02:10:05
>> I said, "Hey, are you okay?" >> And I don't know why I did this, but I started unloading the dishwasher and I'm
02:10:12
saying [music] to her, "No, no, yeah, everything's fine. No, no." And no kept coming out of my mouth and he didn't
02:10:18
pick up on it, but she sure did. And that's [music] when she said, "Is he there?" And I said, "Yes." And I hung up
02:10:26
the phone [music] and I called the cops. >> Believe me, I do realize how lucky I am.
02:10:32
>> Investigators are continuing to piece the case together now that they [music]
02:10:35
found Lorie Leonard gagged and bound with duct tape in a pickup body was found floating in a toolbox.
02:10:40
>> I'm fortunate that it could have been much, much worse. >> [music] [music] [music]
02:11:29
>> I can tell you that I knew nothing was ever going to be the same and it was going to change the way I
02:11:37
looked and everything. For Cece Opinowski, it has taken almost 30 years to talk about the day her former high
02:11:46
school boyfriend, Shawn Doyle, attacked her in her family's home in Hudson Falls, New York, [music] and then used
02:11:53
scissors to cut off her ponytail. What was it like to have your hair cut off in this way?
02:11:58
>> Demeaning. [music] >> Demeaning. Think that's why he did it? >> Probably. Just to make sure he could
02:12:04
knock me down somewhere. On that day, January 27th, 1996, as Doyle went in [music] and out of violent rages, at one
02:12:14
point holding the scissors to her throat, CeCe says she wasn't sure she would make it out alive until she says
02:12:22
her college roommate, Shannon McAuliff, called [music] when she finally picks up the phone.
02:12:28
What did you hear in her voice? Fear. >> Shannon says she knew that Doyle had been harassing Cece. So when CeCe told
02:12:36
her Doyle was there, Shannon notified police and then rushed over to Cece's house.
02:12:42
>> I pulled onto her street and I parked and then I saw the the the police officers and everything, so I kind of
02:12:50
went in after the fact. She [music] looked terrified and angry and sad. [snorts]
02:12:59
CeCe says she thought when police arrived they would make her feel safe, but that's not exactly what happened.
02:13:06
>> They do not put him in handcuffs and they put us in the back of the same police car. Mind you, all of this time
02:13:14
I've [music] clearly look like I've been assaulted. My hair is completely cut off. And when they arrived at the police
02:13:21
station, >> I was like, why why are we here? Why is he not why are we in the same room? CeCe
02:13:27
says instead of separating them, police questioned them together >> and they made it seem like it was some
02:13:35
fight between two young kids that turned, [music] you know, slightly dark. >> When 48 Hours reached out to the Hudson
02:13:42
Falls Police Department, they acknowledged that law enforcement's response to domestic violence has
02:13:48
evolved over the past several decades to better work with and support victims. >> [music]
02:13:54
>> Police arrested Doyle and charged him with menacing harassment and trespassing.
02:13:59
>> Looking at it and you're saying, [music] "Did this really happen to me?" You know, how could this happen to me?
02:14:11
CeCe Openski and Shawn Doyle grew up in the small town of Hudson Falls, located in upstate New York.
02:14:19
To protect Cece's privacy, we chose not to show the actual house where she lived.
02:14:25
>> He was nice to me. He was really nice. [music] >> When Cece started dating Shawn Doyle,
02:14:29
she was just 15 years old, a sophomore in high school. Doyle was one year older.
02:14:36
>> You know, we would go and do lots of things together. You know, we just hung out all the time.
02:14:41
>> CeCe says Doyle had troubles at home. [music] During his junior year, Doyle told her his parents kicked him out. So
02:14:48
Cece begged her parents to let him move in with them. >> Did you feel sorry for him? Oh,
02:14:54
definitely. >> Soon after he moved into Cece's family home, she says she saw a change in
02:15:00
Doyle's behavior. Cece says he became jealous and would secretly follow her around. Something she says she didn't
02:15:08
think at the time was a big deal. when you're a 16, 17 year old girl and you know you're looking at oh jealousy, you
02:15:16
know, he must love me so much and that's why he's doing this or he followed me home. He's so worried about me.
02:15:24
But is that really what the case is? When you you look back as an adult and someone with experience, you know, you
02:15:31
you think that's probably not not okay. And Doyle showed even more possessive behavior that Cece found troubling.
02:15:41
>> He at one point did get a tattoo. It was a heart on his arm and it had my name in
02:15:45
the middle. >> What did you say? Why would you do that? >> And his response, >> I love you.
02:15:51
>> Was it a red flag? >> Definitely. >> During his senior year, Cece says Doyle dropped out of high school and was
02:15:58
working odd jobs that he couldn't keep. >> And this is where things start to get
02:16:04
[music] darker. you know, he he doesn't have any prospects. He knows that I'm getting
02:16:09
ready to go away to school, and [music] to him, his whole life is is about to completely change. But Cece says she
02:16:19
stuck by him, [music] writing in her senior yearbook, I love you, Shawn. And in the summer of 1995, when she left
02:16:26
[music] to attend what is now Russell Sage College in Albany, they agreed to stay together and see each other on
02:16:33
weekends. But at the end of September, things took a scary turn when Cece told Doyle she
02:16:41
would not be coming home every weekend to see him. Doyle showed up at her dorm. >> He stood outside basically threatening
02:16:48
that he was going to kill me. >> And now he's threatening not just you, but anyone around you.
02:16:54
>> Basically anyone around me. So he was arrested. >> Doyle was charged with harassment and
02:17:00
trespassing. [music] It was the final straw for Cece, who says she broke it off with Doyle for
02:17:06
good, and he moved out of her parents' house. Later that winter, that's when Shawn Doyle showed up and viciously
02:17:13
[music] attacked her at her home. I know he threatened a lot, but did you ever believe that Shawn Doyle would have
02:17:21
physically hurt you? Not until that day. Not in that way. After [music] the attack, Cece returned to college and
02:17:29
finished up her freshman year. But Shannon says her friend had changed. I think it had a profound impact on her
02:17:37
life. You know, I was always looking over my shoulder. [music] I bought myself a Swiss Army knife. I'm
02:17:45
having night tears, you know, waking up crying, [music] waking up screaming, not
02:17:50
being able to sleep. Awful. Awful. So, eight months after the attack, when it was time to take the case to trial,
02:17:59
Cece, who was still [music] just a teenager at 19 years old, told prosecutors she couldn't go through with
02:18:06
it. She says she was too traumatized and scared. >> I didn't want to have to face him in
02:18:11
court. I didn't want to be going over this over and over and over again. I really wanted it to go away.
02:18:19
>> Doyle was offered a deal. He pleaded guilty to menacing in the second degree and was sentenced to just three years
02:18:26
probation. CC transferred colleges and moved hours away [music] from Hudson Falls, New York.
02:18:32
>> I needed peace and I didn't know how to get it. >> CeCe tried to forget her past. But she
02:18:39
says she was haunted by a conversation she had with the prosecutor. [music] She said, "You know, based on what I see
02:18:47
here, he is going to do this again to another person." And that has for the past 28 years stuck
02:18:57
in my head. >> [music] >> Nine years after CC Openowski left upstate New York for a new life far away
02:19:20
from Sha Doyle, 33-year-old Lorie Leonard [music] disappeared. >> Say hi, Lorie.
02:19:26
>> Say hi. Lorie Leonard was a single mom who lived with her two sons, Austin, who
02:19:32
was nine at the time, and Zachary, five, in Chinnano, a small town outside Syracuse, New York.
02:19:40
>> She was a a very caring mother. The memories of her just us always being happy together, [music] spending time
02:19:48
kind of always the three of us. >> Say hi. >> It was just a lot of love and affection.
02:19:54
Her dream was to have a home, a father figure for her kids and for them to be happy. She wanted the white picket
02:20:03
fence. >> Jennifer Leonard was Lor's older sister. >> We were good friends, but I was a little
02:20:10
bit of a bossy mother to her. I had been through a lot of things already in my life, in my relationships, and [music] I
02:20:18
was very, I would say, overprotective. In 2003, Lori met a man on a dating website, cupcid.com. [music]
02:20:26
His name Shaun Doyle. Online dating was new back then, so [music] Jennifer was skeptical about him.
02:20:34
>> He was not charismatic. He was not social. He was like a piece of furniture that you just walked around.
02:20:40
>> But she says Lorie didn't agree. She only saw the good in people. >> She would say, you know, he's
02:20:46
misunderstood or he's shy. Jennifer says Lorie told her very little about Doyle except that he lived 3 hours away in
02:20:55
Hudson Falls, New York, and worked at an ice cream [music] factory. She also mentioned that Doyle was on probation.
02:21:02
>> She told me that he was a boxer, that he was protecting a woman at a bar and was
02:21:09
arrested because he used some of his professional boxing moves. >> Did you ever see any sort of evidence of
02:21:15
his professional boxing? I mean, did he do you think he was even a boxer ever? >> I didn't buy the stories that he was
02:21:21
selling her. It sounded like he was trying to be something that he was not. >> Jennifer says after her sister met
02:21:29
Doyle, Lorie became distant. >> I would talk to Lori three times a day. >> And then when Shawn came into the
02:21:35
picture, [music] >> it was it was a little quiet >> and things only got worse. I had called
02:21:40
her one night and he was over there and all I could hear in the background was him yelling at her and that I was like,
02:21:49
"What is this?" And she's like, "You know, I'll call you back. It's not a big deal." But I think what scared me more
02:21:55
than anything was when he was caught yelling at her, it stopped. The kind of guys that, you know, don't want anyone
02:22:02
else to see what happens behind closed doors. He was sneaky. Soon after this incident, Lorie ended
02:22:08
her romantic relationship with Doyle. Lorie told Jennifer they agreed to be just friends and that he was fine with
02:22:16
it. >> And I was like, "No, he's not. Nope. People like that aren't just okay with
02:22:21
being friends." >> Despite the breakup, Doyle would still drive 3 hours from Hudson Falls to visit
02:22:28
Lorie, [music] oftentimes hanging out at the bar where she waitressed late at night. Sean always called me and he he'd
02:22:36
call me to get advice. >> Dorothy Tucker lived down the street from Doyle in Hudson Falls and
02:22:42
considered him a close friend. >> I saw a sweet guy who would bend over backwards if I asked him to.
02:22:52
>> However, after the relationship with Lorie ended, she says Doyle told her he had followed Lorie and watched her as
02:22:59
she went out on a date. I was like, "Sean, you can't do that. She does not want to be with you."
02:23:05
>> Were you starting to get concerned about him and his behavior at that point? >> No. No. Because he agreed with me. I
02:23:13
didn't see the monster that he really was. He hid it quite well. >> On Friday, [music] April 29th, 2005,
02:23:22
Lorie, who was living with Jennifer, moved to a new rental apartment. >> Usually, people are miserable when
02:23:28
they're moving. She was just happy. Lorie's nephew, Dustin Delator, who was 15 at the time, helped with the move.
02:23:35
>> She wanted her own place. She saw her future in that day. >> Also helping with the move was Shawn
02:23:42
Doyle, who offered up use of his truck. >> She had asked a couple other people before that, so he was a last resort. He
02:23:49
was still playing the I'm your friend. >> What was Shawn like that day? >> Standoffish, just I mean, quiet.
02:23:56
Jennifer says the move went smoothly until Doyle decided to hang around and stayed with Lorie in her new place for
02:24:05
days. >> It was starting to get on her nerves. Now, >> 5 days after the move, Jennifer says
02:24:11
Lorie told her Doyle was finally leaving because Lorie had plans to go to Albany
02:24:17
for the afternoon. She was supposed to go pick up the tickets, >> tickets to a Yankees game, [music] a
02:24:23
gift from someone she had met at work. >> Were you concerned at all about her going to pick up tickets from a
02:24:28
stranger? >> Yes, but that was how she was. She was very trusting. >> On Wednesday, May 4th, Jennifer called
02:24:35
Lorie in the afternoon, hoping to catch her while she was heading to Albany. >> And it kept going straight to voicemail.
02:24:41
>> Was that weird? >> Oh, her phone never went straight to voicemail. It was never off. At first,
02:24:46
Jennifer thought she may have gotten lost on the drive or that her phone battery had died.
02:24:52
>> It wasn't a thought at the time that that something bad happened, just that, you know, [music] where is she?
02:24:58
>> 24 hours later, when Lorie never called or returned home, Jennifer notified the
02:25:04
Chinano police. >> Patrol started looking into her whereabouts at that time. >> Lead investigator Wade Irwin searched
02:25:13
Lorie's rental apartment. She had just moved into the home. There were still lots of boxes, items being unpacked.
02:25:21
Didn't appear that there was any signs of a breakin or a crime that occurred at the home, but her car was there.
02:25:27
>> And he said there was something else unsettling about the scene. >> And there was one shoe in the center of
02:25:34
the bed. That was odd. >> Investigator Irwin says he was determined to speak to one person. The
02:25:41
last person that that we were able to determine that saw her was Shawn Doyle. >> But before investigators could reach out
02:25:51
to Doyle, Jennifer says she tracked down Doyle's number and called him herself. >> Sean, have you talked to Lorie? And uh
02:25:59
he goes, "No, I haven't talked to her in a couple of days." "Um, wasn't she supposed to get tickets the other
02:26:04
night?" And I'm like, "Yeah, she [music] was, but we haven't heard from her since." I'm like, "You know, if she
02:26:07
calls you, let us know because the phone's off." off and he's like, "Oh yeah, definitely let you know." When I
02:26:13
hung up, I was like I had chills and I'm like, "He's full of it." He knows something.
02:26:32
[music] As the days went by, Chinenangeno investigators reached out to everyone who had contact with Lorie
02:26:39
Leonard prior to her disappearance, including the man she was supposed to get Yankees tickets from in Albany.
02:26:46
>> He was an executive for a company. We were able to track him down. He was interviewed.
02:26:51
>> Detective Wade Irwin says the executive waited for Lorie in Albany and when she
02:26:56
never showed up, he called her [music] and even left a message. who was calling with concern of where she was. We're
02:27:04
supposed to meet up. I got the tickets. I'm here. Are you okay? I hope an accident didn't happen.
02:27:09
>> His alibi checked out, but Lorie's phone records would reveal a lot more about
02:27:14
another person [music] who hadn't called. >> What became concerning for myself as a
02:27:20
person that cared about her supposedly, >> Shawn Doyle. >> Shawn Doyle never called, never left a
02:27:28
message. When Chidanango police went to interview Lor's former boyfriend, he told them that on the day she
02:27:35
disappeared, he left her apartment about 300 p.m. and then drove 3 hours home to
02:27:42
Hudson Falls. >> He just always had said all along that he left her and she was alive at the
02:27:49
apartment. >> When they checked out his alibi, Detective Irwin says they couldn't clear
02:27:54
him. Yet Doyle was cooperative and even allowed investigators to search his truck and take photos. When they
02:28:02
searched Doyle's glove compartment, they found something curious. >> There was a key for the serial number on
02:28:09
it. >> As investigators [music] kept an eye out on Doyle and continued to search for
02:28:16
Lorie, Jennifer says her family struggled to explain Lorie's disappearance [music] to her two young
02:28:23
sons. After several days to several weeks, you know something's up. Your mother's not home. There's a question as
02:28:28
we know. Where is she? What's what's she doing? >> We would say things like, "She got lost.
02:28:33
You know, we'll get her. We'll find her." >> To make matters worse, Austin and Zachary were now separated, staying with
02:28:41
their fathers and only seeing each other on weekends. >> We'd lived together our whole lives.
02:28:46
That was obviously different, you know, waking up every day with one, your mom's
02:28:49
not there, uh, but [music] two, now your brother isn't. We were suffering and every day
02:28:55
our family was doing something to find her. We were looking for her. We were a welloiled machine.
02:29:02
>> Jennifer suspected Shawn Doyle had something to do with her sister's disappearance. So [music] weeks after
02:29:08
Lorie vanished, she headed to Hudson Falls and held a demonstration, hoping someone there would know something about
02:29:15
Doyle that could help investigators. [music] We had posters. We had signs. We had
02:29:21
Sean's name up on signs. If anybody will speak to us. >> Dorothy Tucker says when she heard
02:29:28
Lorie's family was in town, she immediately called Doyle. >> I was like, Sean, what's going on? You
02:29:34
know, did you do something? I didn't do anything to her. She's probably off on a
02:29:40
beach somewhere with some guy. >> But you believe Sean at the time? >> Oh, definitely. Later that day, when
02:29:47
Dorothy passed Lor's family rallying on the streets, she says she [music] did something she has come to deeply regret.
02:29:55
>> Like an idiot, I yelled out the window, [music] telling them to go home. Shawn
02:30:01
didn't do anything and they needed to leave. >> As months passed, with no sign of Lorie,
02:30:09
the family's hopes began to dwindle. I made a promise to find a resolution to this for them and give them [music]
02:30:18
the closure and answers that they needed. It was disheartening because every night [music]
02:30:25
I'd call them and give them an update regardless of whether there was positive or negative [music] information. And
02:30:32
then on July 24th, 2005, 3 months after Lorie went missing, >> we had a report that a fisherman had
02:30:41
been going by in this area here. >> Captain TonyLair is with the Washington County Sheriff's Office. [music]
02:30:48
>> He saw what he thought to be a toolbox that goes in the back of a pickup truck
02:30:51
floating. Thought it may be useful for him, [music] so he grabbed onto it, towed it with his boat about a mile and
02:30:58
a half, and then they dragged it out of the water. The box was locked and emitting a
02:31:03
[music] foul odor. So, police were called and when they broke open the lock, authorities discovered a body
02:31:11
inside [music] >> and there was contents, pillows, bedding, purse, but right on top was
02:31:18
Lorie's ID. >> Also in the box was a photo of Lorie's two sons. >> She was handcuffed behind her back.
02:31:30
There was duct tape [clears throat] around the handcuffs. Her feet were bound together and duct taped. Her face
02:31:35
from chin to forehead. Um had duct tape and then once that duct tape was removed, there was a bandana
02:31:47
tied in her mouth. >> The medical examiner would rule that Lorie died of asphyxiation.
02:31:53
>> I couldn't wrap my head around what they were saying. What do you mean she was
02:31:57
found in a toolbox in the water? I I couldn't I couldn't I couldn't accept it. >> Detective Irwin says that's when Shawn
02:32:12
Doyle went from a person of interest to a [music] suspect in the case. >> Everything started to come together real
02:32:18
quickly. We got a search warrant within hours to go to his residence. [music] During their search, police found sand
02:32:25
tubes in his garage that matched the sand tubes inside [music] the toolbox used to weigh it down. We were able to
02:32:32
track down in the home similar handcuffs, bandanas, [music] duct tape, other means he used that matched what
02:32:42
was used on Lorie. >> Remember the key investigators had discovered in Shawn Doyle's truck? It
02:32:48
matched the lock of the toolbox, tying Doyle directly to the crime. [music] When investigators checked the bridge
02:32:55
near the canal where the toolbox was found, they discovered scratches on the bridge railing that match scratches
02:33:02
found on the bottom of the toolbox. Just tell me about what investigators think happened. What was the theory? The
02:33:09
theory is that he came here with his pickup truck, came to the bridge um somewhere in the center of the canal and
02:33:15
took the toolbox and basically just pushed it over the edge. And as he did, it scraped across.
02:33:22
>> Just one day [music] after the discovery of Lorie's body in the toolbox, investigators arrested Shawn Doyle. What
02:33:30
was that moment like for you? overwhelming. >> Jennifer says it was time to break the
02:33:42
news to Lorie's two young sons. Zachary remembers the moment [music] even though
02:33:47
he was only 5 years old. >> I felt it as soon as I walked into the room. And I think my dad was the one
02:33:53
that said that she's not coming home. [music] Just kind of fell into him and just didn't know how to react.
02:34:00
>> I watched a little boy break. He said not a word. Then it was time to tell 9-year-old Austin.
02:34:10
>> You know, I left out kind of like a shriek [music] and and kind of just collapsed uh in my dad. And that I can
02:34:17
still kind of feel it. >> And he wailed. It wasn't a cry. [music] It was it was a
02:34:24
pained guttural whale. I'll always have that sound in my head. Jennifer says she couldn't truly mourn
02:34:35
her sister [music] because she had to prepare for Doyle's upcoming trial. I was going to make sure that he got what
02:34:42
he deserved. >> [music] >> In late summer of 2005, [music] Cece Openowski received a phone call from her
02:35:05
father. Her exboyfriend Shawn [music] Doyle had been arrested for murder. >> I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I
02:35:13
couldn't believe it. You don't want it to be true, and it's terrible. When CC learned the victim was 33-year-old Lorie
02:35:20
Leonard, a single mom of two young boys, she said she was overwhelmed with extreme guilt.
02:35:26
>> That was a breaking point for me. I felt for her whole entire family and her two
02:35:32
young children. >> CeCe says she was haunted by the choice she made as a traumatized and scared
02:35:39
teenager. And all I can think about is if I could go back, I would have done it differently.
02:35:46
I would have pressed my charges much further. >> So just weeks later, when investigators
02:35:53
reached out to Cece and asked if she would testify at Doyle's trial, she was determined to help.
02:36:00
>> I need to make sure that he is put away for for murdering [music] Lorie. At this
02:36:07
point now, I'm angry. I'm not fearful. But Cece was not Doyle's only ex-girlfriend, who investigators hoped
02:36:17
would [music] testify against him. 5 years after Doyle attacked Cece, he allegedly tried to kill 23-year-old
02:36:24
Sarah Walmer. >> When the investigators came a couple months ago and got me out of my work,
02:36:29
>> 48 Hours reached out to Vulmer and received no response, but she did speak with the CBS affiliate in Albany about
02:36:37
the attack in 2005. He had tied me up with shoelaces and um put the duct tape back over my mouth and then just began
02:36:46
strangling me until I passed out and then my mother walked in on it. >> Doyle was charged with unlawful
02:36:51
imprisonment in the second degree and assault in the third degree. But again, a deal was made. Doyle pleaded guilty
02:36:59
only to the charge of unlawful imprisonment. A judge sentenced him to three years probation.
02:37:06
On January 23rd, 2006, Shawn Doyle's trial began. It was a day that Lorie's sister, Jennifer, had waited for.
02:37:15
>> I was going to be her advocate. I was going to speak for her. I was going to speak for the boys.
02:37:21
>> When Doyle entered the courtroom, Jennifer says she was caught off guard because his appearance had changed.
02:37:27
>> What do you look like? >> Choir boy. He'd grown his hair. He had a sweater on.
02:37:33
>> Kevin Courtright, now retired, had only been district attorney for less than a
02:37:38
month. He says key to his case was making sure Doyle's other victims, Cece and Sarah, would be allowed to testify.
02:37:47
Often times, judges do not allow a defendant's prior bad acts to be brought into trial. Why were the women so
02:37:55
crucial? >> It shows what he was capable of. He'd done it almost exactly the same in the
02:38:01
past. It's his motus operandi. It's strong proof. >> Despite the defense's objections, the
02:38:07
judge ruled that CC and Sarah could testify. But first, DA court presented the jury with all the pieces of physical
02:38:16
evidence that pointed to Shawn Doyle, like the items they found in Doyy's garage and home, the sandbags and
02:38:24
handcuffs. And what about that bandana? He wore a bandana 24 hours a day. He had
02:38:30
bandanas in his bedroom. He had bandanas in his truck. The bandana in Lor's mouth
02:38:35
was the one I believe he was wearing that day. [music] And then there was that toolbox. Courtright called to the
02:38:41
stand a clerk from a local AutoZone store [music] who says she sold Doyle the toolbox just one week before Lorie
02:38:49
disappeared. >> She identified him perfectly. She even identified his shirt he was wearing. And
02:38:54
the [music] most important piece of evidence, that key found in his glove compartment that tied Doyle directly to
02:39:01
the box. >> That was as strong as evidence as you could get. >> Retired journalist Don Leman covered the
02:39:07
trial [music] for the Postar newspaper. >> The key to the toolbox was there was no
02:39:12
way around that. >> Then court called Dorothy Tucker, Shaun's once close friend, to the stand.
02:39:18
He says she was a major witness because she provided information as to how they believe Doyle transported Lorie's body
02:39:27
from Tinango. 3 hours over to Hudson Falls after he murdered her. >> He just kept calling me.
02:39:35
>> Dorothy told the jury that the day that Lorie disappeared, Doyle stopped by her
02:39:40
house. In the back of his truck, she says, [music] was a very large cardboard box. I said, "Sean, what do you got
02:39:48
there?" He saw just garbage junk I had at Lorie's. He said, "Take it to the dump."
02:39:55
>> DA Courtright believes Lorie's body was in the box and that at some point Doyle
02:40:00
transferred her body to the toolbox. Dorothy testified just days after his first visit. Doyle showed up at her
02:40:07
house again and the cardboard box had been replaced by a large tool box. I walk out and I said, "Hey Sean, what do
02:40:17
you need a toolbox for? You don't have any tools to put in it." And he laughed and Yeah. Yeah. You know. So then he
02:40:24
started saying about a friend he was going to meet him. They were going to go fishing.
02:40:30
>> Dorothy said Doyle told her he was going to fish by the Champlain Lock Canal area, a place he knew well and
02:40:38
frequented often. Doyle had even taken Cece there many times when they dated. >> Lori was in the box that day and he was
02:40:45
taking her to dump her in the canal where she was later found. >> District Attorney Courtright called Cece
02:40:52
Openowski as his last witness. >> He always put the best for the last. >> I was very, very nervous.
02:40:58
>> CeCe told the jury about the attack and the longlasting [music] mental anguish
02:41:04
Shawn Doyle caused her. What did you want Shawn Doyle to see? that I wasn't afraid, that you're not my scary
02:41:12
anything anymore. >> When it was the defense's turn, Lehman says they tried to poke holes in the
02:41:17
prosecution's case. >> There just was not not a lot of holes to poke. >> We reached out [music] to Shawn Doyle
02:41:25
and members of Doyle's family, but they declined to be interviewed. After three long days of testimony,
02:41:34
the case went to the jury. Lorie Leonard's family members held their breath. >> I felt like I hadn't exhaled in months.
02:41:44
And that's what I needed. [music] I needed to exhale. Despite all the evidence against Shawn
02:41:59
Doyle, retired journalist Don Leman says no one knew which way the jury would rule. But there have been times that
02:42:07
we've seen many cases where the [music] jury does things that just kind of defy the evidence.
02:42:12
>> On January 26th, 2006, after just 2 and 1/2 hours of deliberations, the jury came back with a verdict. Guilty of
02:42:22
seconddegree murder. When the guilty verdict was read, Lorie Leonard's family burst into cheers and
02:42:29
sobs, but Shawn Doyle showed little reaction. >> Guilty. >> Mhm. What went through your mind when
02:42:36
you heard that word? >> Thank God. >> Why does it still affect you? >> Because bad things happen to good
02:42:45
people. >> I was relieved and happy that he was going to be punished for what he did.
02:42:53
>> For Cece, it was difficult to process the fact that a person she once loved was convicted of murder.
02:43:01
>> To me, it almost felt like there wasn't a man left inside of him. but more like
02:43:04
a monster. For your crimes to become worse as you go, to almost perfect them, to think about them in that serial
02:43:15
fashion. >> One month later, before Doyle was sentenced, a judge listened to testimony
02:43:21
and read over victim impact statements from Lorie's friends and family. >> Prison isn't even the right place for
02:43:27
someone like him. It's not punishment enough. >> It's a good picture. That's a good one.
02:43:34
Austin and Zachary. Lor's sons were too young to attend trial, but both wrote letters to the judge.
02:43:43
>> She let me sleep with her when I was scared and when I see something scary and hear something scary. We used to
02:43:48
sing songs we like the most together. I think my mom was the greatest mom in the world.
02:43:56
My mom, my brother, and I had really great times together. >> [snorts] >> I'm also sad because
02:44:09
[snorts] I'll never see my mom anymore now because of what happened. >> Shawn Doyle was sentenced to the
02:44:20
maximum, 25 years to life with the possibility of parole. >> Was that enough? >> I didn't think so.
02:44:28
>> You don't want him getting out? >> No. Mm-m. There's no forgiveness. No way, man. None. None.
02:44:34
>> He's [music] a danger to society and I I hope he never gets out. >> Dorothy Tucker, who initially stood by
02:44:43
Doyle, says she feels betrayed [music] by him. >> He lied straight to my face. And [music] here is someone that I
02:44:54
trusted, thought I knew, never saw that side of him. >> Dorothy hopes Lorie's family will
02:45:02
forgive her for how she previously treated them when they came to rally against Doyle in Hudson Falls. [music]
02:45:11
>> I wanted to tell them how sorry I was, and I still am. That was totally [music]
02:45:16
uncalled for, and it was unacceptable behavior on my part. Don Leman, who has covered many domestic violence cases in
02:45:24
his almost 30 years as a reporter, says there are important lessons that can be learned from Cece and Sarah's attacks
02:45:32
and Lorie's murder. >> Every case of domestic violence is a potential homicide. They all have to be
02:45:37
taken seriously. They all have to be handled in a way to protect these victims. you know, as a young woman with
02:45:45
two young kids. It's just mindboggling that these kids lost their mom to a guy like this.
02:45:55
Cece, who bravely came forward to tell her story, hopes that others can learn from her.
02:46:04
Be vigilant. Look at what's happening in front of you and make sure someone knows. Don't keep it quiet. Pay
02:46:15
attention. And when you have that feeling, that one that doesn't go away, you know, the one that you try to push
02:46:22
down, that's the one you should listen to the most. She says she is ready to let [music] go
02:46:30
of the guilt she has felt for what happened to Lorie. I've waited so long and I've had to live
02:46:38
with it for all of these years. It's not her fault. It's the system [music] that failed. She did what she had to do.
02:46:50
I don't blame her. I feel sad that she's felt guilt all this time. >> How do you want your sister to be
02:46:56
remembered? Lorianne, she so fun, so funny, so loving. For Jennifer, she longs for the life she
02:47:10
always thought she would have with Lorie. >> We were supposed to be living in the
02:47:15
same place and going out and raising our kids and having parties. And that's what it was
02:47:23
supposed to be. [music] That's what we were supposed to have. And I'm it. Just me and the kids trying to get along
02:47:30
without her. >> What do you miss the most about Lori? >> In moments where I'm [music] really sad,
02:47:48
where I'm like, I just need her to hold me. And she hasn't been able to do that in 20 years.
02:48:01
48 hours. To miss it would be a crime. >> Were you at all prepared for what happened in this case?
02:48:13
[music] [music] >> [music] [music]