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Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host Ann Marie Green and joining [music] me today is 48 hours correspondent
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Natalie Morales. We are going to discuss the case of Deborah Atrops. Now, back in
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1988, the young mother was found strangled to death in the trunk of her car in Oregon. For decades, her murder
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remained unsolved and it would take 37 years to bring her killer to justice. Joining me now is Natalie.
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>> Hi, Anorie. Good to be with you. Hey, Natalie. It's always good to be with you. Um, this is one of those hours that
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I just kind of went back and forth. I was so convinced that they, you know, that they had the right suspect, then
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they then they had the wrong suspect. I just >> I was ping ponging. >> I think it even for me as I was
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reporting on this case, it was I was very conflicted. even our producers, we were conflicted. But this case was cold
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for over 30 years. So really, it was all about figuring out what new evidence could be presented at trial. Uh if you
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haven't listened to the 48 hours episode yet, you can find the full audio version
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just below this episode in your podcast feed. Go take a listen and then come on back for the conversation. Uh Deborah or
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Debbie Atrops was last seen alive on Tuesday, November 29th, 1988. Her husband, Bob Atrops, first reported
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her missing to Oregon police when he said she never arrived to pick up their baby daughter, Rihanna, uh from Bob's
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house. Uh so I should point out that Bob and her they are estranged, right? So they have been separated. Um, but Bob
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calls the police like pretty quickly after he felt that she should have been picking up their daughter. He tells them
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that Debbie was running about three hours late from a hairdressing appointment. So, to me, this was like
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the first indication, like very early on, I thought, "Oh, yeah, he's the one." Because I just, it just seemed like 3
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hours was too soon to be calling the police. And at least in the portion of the 911 call that we heard, it's not
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like he said, "I've been everywhere. I went to her apartment. And I I called the hairdresser. Like it just something
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about the 911 call seemed off. Yeah. All valid points, Amarie, you know, and actually really wasn't even 3 hours
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because her appointment ended at 7:15. She was expected back at Bob Atrop's house around 7:30, 8:00. So he's calling
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really less than 2 hours after that time frame. and police uh well detective Okonnell I should say who was one of the
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uh initial people who was on this case he he said that felt strange to him too. It's sort of that Shakespearean you know
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that quote thou doth protest too much and prosecutors believe those phone calls were almost to try to um make
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police believe that uh he wasn't involved. Interesting. Now, he does say back in 1988, he tells police that he
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called other people. He says he called the babysitter, called uh Debbie's boss and her parents from his home phone, but
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the problem with that is that it couldn't be confirmed because there was no record of these phone calls on his
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home phone and they were long distance. So, they they should have been a record someplace.
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>> Yeah. And I should remind people this is 1988. This is Oregon. So calling from
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one town to the other town, that could sometimes be a long-distance call. Bob lived about 30 miles from where Debbie's
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parents lived. So all these phone calls should have been recorded somewhere as long-distance calls on a phone bill. So
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it became a big part of the mystery was where are these calls? Now, we know that
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he did place these calls because Debbie's parents did confirm and her stepfather confirmed that they received
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the calls. the babysitter confirmed that she received a call. So the question is
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where did he make the calls from? Investigators believe that Bob maybe had, you know, committed the murder and
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was dis trying to get rid of the car and dispose of Debbie's body and that's when
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he made those calls as he was out and about. >> Were they looking for I don't know
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public telephone like telephone booth? >> They went around and looked at all the
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public pay phones that they could find. They tried to get phone records off the payoneses. But that said, you can't go
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around and trace and track every pay phone in the neighborhood. I should also say the one phone call that Bob didn't
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make, which was very telling to investigators, was he didn't try to call Debbie's house. Now remember, they're
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estranged. So she has an apartment in Salem, Oregon, and he never even calls the apartment and never goes to the
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apartment either to try to see if she ended up deciding to go straight home. So that was very telling to
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investigators. Bob Atrops explained that away as saying, "Well, I had already called Debbie's parents and they said
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she had not gone home." Okay, so you know, sadly Debbie is not a missing person for very long. Less than two days
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later, police discovered her uh abandoned car near a construction site and then inside they discover Debbie's
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body face down in the trunk of her car. She had been strangled, but no signs of sexual assault.
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So, at this point, I would think the only person to look at would be Bob. Did Did police zero in on him as a suspect
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right away? You know, obviously, as we have reported all too often, the partner or the spouse or in this case, the
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aranged spouse is definitely the first person they consider and they look at. Um, and they did search outside Bob's
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house. They in fact u checked his driveway, which was a gravel and muddy sort of driveway. They took pictures of
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that driveway. They even took a mud sample of the driveway and the lawn as well because on the top of the car, the
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hood of the car, it appeared there had been some mud evidence that had been wiped away. On Debbie Atrop's body, on
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her coat, they found mud on her shoes. They were muddied as well. So, they were trying to match the sample of mud
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specifically and also trying to verify the tire tracks. Now, they never could verify her tire tracks on his driveway.
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A lot of people, a lot of friends were visiting in the time that he reported Debbie missing. Obviously, a lot of
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people very concerned about Debbie. So, police were never able to definitively say whether or not Debbie had come back
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to the house uh based on tire tracks. >> So, then let's talk about their relationship. We know they're strange,
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but I mean, do we know anything about the nature of the relationship at the time that she goes missing?
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>> She was living, as I said, in this whole other apartment. She was also involved
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in an entirely new relationship with a man named John Pearson. Friends said that Debbie was very afraid of Bob
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finding out that she was already dating this guy. John Pearson was somebody she worked with and Bob apparently knew her
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boss. They were good friends, so it wouldn't be, you know, too crazy for him to find out. But um Debbie's friend uh
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Tammy Nelson also said back in 1988 that Bob Adops had a temper that he had actually uh had choked her according to
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Debbie shortly before she moved out. And you know she had even told friends if something happens to me Bob did it. Yeah
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those are definitely some famous last words. Um, but she is dating this other person, John Pearson, which is what
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started me when I was watching the hour, moving away from Bob as a suspect. Um, he was interviewed by police. He told
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police that he had been uh with his aranged wife and children on the night of Debbie's disappearance. Um, but he
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also gave a detailed description, a really detailed description of Debbie's car and what was in the trunk. And it
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just I know I can't even tell you really what's in my trunk right now. So it just
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seems like an odd amount of detail to remember, you know. >> Yeah. I mean, it was a very detailed
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description of what was in the trunk. Um, you know, John told police even how could a body even fit in the trunk,
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which kind of strange words to say. He thought the trunk was too small. And so I asked the prosecutors, Allison Brown
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and Chris Lumen, about that. Take a listen. >> John Pearson told police back then that
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there was a Burger King [clears throat] bag as well as a box with cranberries and a child's car seat. Seems like a lot
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of details about the car. I mean, that's not details that I don't think my husband knows what's in my car. That
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seems like somebody who's very intimately involved with knowing what's in the contents of that vehicle.
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>> Well, and I think >> uh we knew that Mr. Pearson had been with her. I mean, he admitted that he'd
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been with her. Um, they had been dating and and was in that car frequently. Um, and then I think his his surprise that
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how could the body fit in the trunk? I mean, uh, as we we mentioned, it was delicately placed in there. It's not a
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it is not a large trunk and and that had to have taken some effort to sort of get
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Debbie's body in the trunk. >> Does it seem like an odd commentary, though? Yeah, I mean I think they asked
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him specific questions about the car and its condition and they were seeing each
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other every day. I mean not only were they in a romantic relationship, they both worked at Wellins, so they would
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often have lunch together. Um I think they had lunch together the day prior and so um you know he would see he would
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see her often. >> Detective Okonnell who interviewed Pearson back in 1988 said that Pearson
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was actually very forthcoming when when he was questioned. He agreed to many interviews, in fact, and that he even
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took a polygraph. He passed the polygraph. So, Detective Okonnell felt like it wasn't like Pearson was trying
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to hide anything at the time. >> Okay. And at the time, there's still some question marks about Bob, but
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there's really no evidence connecting Bob or anyone else to Debbie's murder. So, the case goes cold, right?
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Meanwhile, Bob continues to live life. He raises the couple's daughter, Rihanna. Um, she's in her late 30s right
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now. you spoke to her. She describes him as a great dad. He's doing and attentive
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and he's a fantastic grandfather to her three children. Um she does not believe that he had
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anything to do with her mother's murder. Yeah. You know, it was it was heartbreaking speaking with her, of
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course, because here's a a a young woman who never even knew her mother. She was
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8 months old when her mother died. So, she feels that loss still very greatly in her life. And then now she said she
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feels like she's lost the only person that she [music] feels she could count on her entire life and that was her
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father who raised her. And she does feel like he is 100% innocent. Well, decades after Debbie's murder,
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detectives and prosecutors with the cold case unit start looking at Bob Atrops again. [music]
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And we have seen this before, Natalie. Sometimes it's the same evidence but with fresh eyes and they see things
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completely different. Fresh eyes and new technology. I mean, keep in mind from 1988 now to, you know, 30 plus years
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later how much DNA uh has changed things when it comes to cold cases. There was,
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you know, Debbie's coat with that. They take a look at the DNA evidence and they
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were able to exclude John Pearson and Jeff Freeberg who was a former ex but he was no longer romantically involved with
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Debbie. However, they couldn't definitively exclude Bob Atrops. Now, the defense points out the amount of DNA
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that they had was the equivalent of perhaps six skin cells, which is a minute amount. So, they said this is
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like the weakest bit of evidence that you could possibly even have. Um, and they said as well, according to the
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defense, the fact that they shared custody of Rihanna, it's expected that there would be some sort of
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crosscontamination with DNA. And remember those soil samples that I talked about from the driveway and the
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evidence that was on the car. So, the FBI analyzed the mud that was found on the tire of the car and also they looked
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at the soil that was taken from Bob Atrops's lawn and they said that the mud on the tire was indistinguishable from
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the mud from Bob's lawn in color, composition, and texture. So, that would be a real compelling piece of evidence.
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In fact, there became this whole part of the trial that was all about the soil evidence. They had soil experts testify.
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The defense said though when it comes down to it, it's soil that is so common place in the Wamut Valley that they're
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like, "How could you definitively say that it's Bob at Trops' lawn?" Yeah. And so then detectives do something really
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interesting like one of the holes in Bob's story back then is about these phone calls, right? How come there's no
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record of these phone calls you say you made? So they rein him in 2022 and they ask him again about that night and the
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phone calls he made, but this time he's got a different story that he didn't tell them the first time around.
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>> Right. So So Bob is a salesman and so at the time he was. So his now he's telling
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detectives, you know, all these years later, well, those phone calls weren't there because I used an MCI calling card
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to make those calls. And the prosecutors are like, "No, no, no. That just doesn't
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add up." Because when you make a call using these calling cards, then you have to punch in this code, this 16digit
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code. It just didn't sound like the act of a frantic husband who's calling 911, but then also is he like sitting there
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punching in the code to to, you know, just try to make these calls. It It just didn't add up to the prosecutors.
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>> Yeah, that it makes a lot of sense. >> The defense, however, presented somebody
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at the trial who said that the equipment could have been faulty at the time and it didn't necessarily record all the
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calls that came through in the area. >> Okay. Um, but ultimately detectives do arrest him, right? He's arrested in
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March of 2023 um for Debbie's murder. What about the other suspects though? Because I got to
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tell you, when I was watching Yes. Initially the phone call was it was troubled me. But later on I thought,
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well, what about John? I mean, there are other people. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, Jeff Freeberg, I
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think Detective Okonnell, they pretty much figured he was not a person of interest. Also, back from the lab, the
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DNA evidence, the mixture uh from the coat from from Debbie Atrops's coat excluded John Pearson. However, what was
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interesting about John Pearson, he had apparently moved to Arizona and was living in a trailer when 5 days before
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Bob's trial, two police officers show up outside the trailer, they are out there.
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They're saying, "We're here. We want to talk to you." John Pearson looks out the
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window, sees them, and then kills himself. See, for me, that was I I thought, "Wait a minute. Why would you
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do that?" Right? What are you trying to hide? Right. According to the prosecution, he had a DUI apparently
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that he was um wanted in court for. Take a listen. >> Um he had an open criminal case. I
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believe he he thought they were there to arrest him for this misdemeanor warrant
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and and took his life. >> The prosecution also noted his family said he wanted to testify against Bob at
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Trops. We don't really know what was going on in his mind at the time, but investigators and the prosecutors truly
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believe there is no evidence that points to John Pearson in this case. That all the evidence squarely pointed at Bob at
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Trops. >> So when Bob is arrested though, his daughter Rihanna is completely blindsided.
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>> Yeah. Rihanna, you know, she's just been so upset at the entire process. She said, you know, she got a call at 5:00
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a.m. that morning telling her that her father, Bob Atrops, had been arrested. Beyond that, she says that at trial,
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they kept calling her Rihanna instead of Rihanna, which is how her name is pronounced. She was never given a
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victim's advocate, whereas Debbie's brother and stepfather had a victim's advocate at their side. Um, here's a
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little bit more of what she had to say. The prosecution stood there in trial and
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made me out to be the most important thing in my mom's life. I'm her baby, her daughter,
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but the prosecution never treated me as such. >> Um, so I asked the prosecutors about
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that. I I asked the point blank. I mean, how did they feel about how they treated
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her? And here's what they had to say. And and during the trial, Rihanna told us that she was not contacted by a
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victim's advocate from your office. Um even though here it is, it's her mother who was murdered. Um
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>> why not? >> We have the indication that she didn't want to have any contact with us. Um
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that she was on the defendant's side um and that wasn't interested in in being part of our case or having contact with
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the prosecution. That was my understanding. She also said that she was not informed
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ahead of time when the autopsy photos were going to be shown in court on the day during the trial. Um, meanwhile, you
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know, Debbie's brother had been informed ahead of time and he left the courtroom
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because he knew it would be too hard to see. What do you say to that? >> Yeah, I mean, I I can't imagine how that
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would feel. Um, again, her not having contact with our office, we it's difficult for us to sort of alert
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everybody in the courtroom, here's what we're about to do. And certainly that was not intentional.
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>> Yeah. You know, sometimes it's the nature of the system that, you know, if you're not a defendant and you're not a
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witness, then it's like you don't have a role, >> right? And that's that's how she feels.
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she feels that she got lost in the process, but also that they excluded her because they knew she was on her
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father's side and she was going to defend him all the way. So then what sort of evidence did the prosecution
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have? What sort of evidence did they present that connected Bob to this crime? Perhaps the most compelling part
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of evidence, according to the prosecution, was the alleged pattern of domestic abuse in their relationship.
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Debbie's mother had told police at the time of the murder that Bob at Chrops was verbally, physically abusive and
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very controlling, that she immediately suspected that Bob was the killer. And as we mentioned earlier, her friend
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Tammy Nelson testified that Debbie told Tammy that he had choked her before. I mean, that right there is is is
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evidence. Um Tammy also told the defense team that Debbie told her that um she was scared of Bob, especially when they
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had to hand off Rihanna. That's when those moments, those confrontations could happen. And that's exactly what
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prosecutors believe is what happened. When Debbie went to the house that night, he had found out about her
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relationship with John Pearson. And that set it up for that night for this confrontation and and and for him to
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then in a fit of rage um strangle Debbie Atrops. >> Um the defense argued, however, that
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Debbiey's stories were unreliable. We hear this version of Bob, but at trial, there were a lot of people that
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were there supporting him, not just his daughter. Yes, he had a lot of support, including
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his fourth wife uh was there. He's, you know, been married since 2011. He did have two other marriages and divorces
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after Debbie's murder. Um so, you know, but as Chris Luman, the uh assistant prosecutor, said that he can be charming
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and he he knows how to get his way and how to have people, you know, believe him.
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So ultimately though, the jury does find him guilty of murdering Debbie Atrops. The defense was rather emotional and you
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don't see that very often. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, defense attorney April Yates uh was very emotional. She said that Bob at
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Trops is is in an innocent person who has been convicted. Of course, Rihanna is now a victim twice over. That's the
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way she feels. She mentioned that to you. uh she never got to know her mother and now she's also lost her father and
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she gave a really powerful statement at his sentencing. I'm curious about the reaction um when she read that
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statement. It was it was a moment that I felt was very very telling. You know, Rihanna is there. She's pleading with
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the judge to you know spare her father to to be more lenient in the sentencing telling the judge that she and her three
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kids they need their father and grandfather. Um Bob at that point he hardly ever looks in her direction and
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and hardly ever looks up from the table. Now the question is is he so racked with
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guilt or is this somebody you know who's just being stoic and having to deal with
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you know this verdict and now the sentencing. It's hard to say how you would interpret it. I think it's up to
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the viewers's interpretation here. But as a parent, if that was my child saying, "I need my parent." I just can't
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imagine not being emotional in that moment. >> Absolutely. Bob Hops received a life
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sentence with the possibility of parole after 25 years. If he is to be released,
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he would be 93 years old at the time. How is Rihanna grappling with this? >> She says she's trying to be strong and
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she's trying to keep up the fight, but she's very upset. And and really at the heart of all of this, this is truly a a
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tragic love story. It's so clear when you see from the very first frames of the home video, you know, after adopting
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Rihanna, how much Debbie Atrops bonded with that baby. That love just screams through the screen and you can't help
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but think all that was lost. And Rihanna says she feels that loss every day. And
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now, of course, she's dealing with having, you know, to to lose her father in the process as well. Yeah.
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>> So, it's it's a tragic story all around. >> Absolutely. Decades waiting for some
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sort of justice and then there are other people involved who think there's no justice at all, but ultimately my heart
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breaks for Rihanna and everything that she has lost. >> Yes. I mean, she's she's a strong person
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and you know, fortunately, she has a lot of people who are supporting her through
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this. >> Yeah, that's that's good to hear. [music] That's good to hear. Thank you
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so much, Natalie. >> Thank you. And if you like this episode, please rate [music] and review us on
00:23:16
Apple Podcast or Spotify.