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Welcome to Postmortem. I'm 48 Hours correspondent Anne Marie Green, and today we're discussing the murder of
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Harold Allen in Freetown, Indiana. Now, in December of 2022, Harold was poisoned with a root beer float made by
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his wife, Marsha Allen, and Marsha's adult daughter, Ashley Jones. His death was originally determined to
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be from natural causes, but then after a burglary at Marsha's home 9 months later, police discovered a string of
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damning text messages between Marsha and Ashley that prompted them to investigate
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Harold's death as a possible murder. So, Peter Van Sant is joining us. He was the
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correspondent on that hour. Peter, thanks again for joining us. Hey, great to be here, Anne Marie. And folks, you
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heard it right, murder by root beer float. >> Mhm. And the maliciousness of this case
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really struck me. Marsha and Ashley attempted to kill Harold multiple times during a 3-month period leading up to
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his death with a variety of exotic poisons. And something we didn't share in the
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hour, investigators said that there was evidence that Ashley was plotting other murders. Okay, so we definitely are
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going to get into that. Um, but first, a quick reminder for everyone. If you haven't watched or listened to this
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episode, The Root Beer Float Murder, go check it out right now, and then come back for this conversation. All right,
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Peter, getting into it, there are a lot of really strange elements in this case,
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and one that really stands out right away is Harold Allen's original autopsy. It concluded that that his death was
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caused by cardiac issues. The coroner did not screen for poisons in his blood. Why wasn't his blood screened? Well,
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Harold had a history of genuine health issues, and also, remember he'd been to the emergency room a couple of times
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when these attempted poisonings didn't work out. So, his death was not considered suspicious. And routine
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autopsies, they don't screen for poison because there's simply not enough hours in the day to to screen for every poison
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out there unless there's a specific reason to do so, and they didn't have one in this case. Routine autopsies do
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involve a toxicology screening that looks for things like alcohol and medication overdoses, and Harold had
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been on prescription meds, and they were found at therapeutic levels. Now, every
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state has different laws about keeping blood and tissue samples postmortem. In Indiana, they hold onto samples for a
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year. So, when suspicion was finally raised in Harold's case, they could still send that out for testing. Yeah,
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that was really fortuitous. I I did not know that they held onto samples that long, especially when initially there
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doesn't seem to be a suspicious death. Um the case really reminded me though of another poisoning case that's getting a
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lot of attention, the Kouri Richins case. Uh she was a Utah author and mother who in 2026 was found guilty of
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murdering her husband with a fentanyl-laced Moscow mule, also a pretty sweet drink, I think. Um like
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Richins, Kouri wrote a book about grief after Harold's death. Did you read the book? I did. And
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it's not going to make a best-seller list, but the name of the book was from surviving to thriving, rebuilding your
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life after the loss of a spouse. And she self-published this book about 6 months
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after Harold died. It has just 29 pages. Some of it reads like Hallmark card stuff. And yet as we as we know, it it
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ends up being a bunch of hooey. Investigators believe that she wanted people to feel sorry for her, and or she
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wanted to convince others that she was mourning for Harold when she knew she had inflicted all this pain and torment
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on this man and yet was trying to cover that horrible deed with this book. So then over 9 months after Harold's death,
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Marsha's home security system alerted her to a burglary while she was away on vacation.
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When she reviewed the video, she could see two men opening her home safe and then rifling through her bedroom and
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looking for jewelry. Marsha immediately identifies one of the burglars captured on this camera, it's her daughter
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Ashley's best friend. His name is Steven White. She reports this burglary to the
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police. But I got to wonder, why would she do that? She knows that she's involved in
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this other crime. You would think the last thing she would want to do is bring authorities to her house. Absolutely,
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especially since she she knows she had committed a murder. Were it not for Marsha's vindictive
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nature of reporting a burglary that she knew her own daughter was responsible for, both she and Ashley would likely be
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free today. And Ashley was the only other person who knew the combination to the safe. So Marsha knew Ashley was
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behind this burglary and Harold, he had a life insurance policy of $120,000. Marsha had been paying Ashley about
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$1,000 each month since Harold died, but it stopped making those payments 2 months before the burglary. So she
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Ashley was upset with her mother because she felt she wasn't getting enough money. When police spoke to Steven
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White, he's one of the guys one of the burglars seen on that tape, he told them that Marsha killed her husband by
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poisoning a root beer float and that's when investigators decided they needed at least to ask Marsha about Harold's
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death. So Marsha returns from vacation. She goes to the sheriff's office to discuss, she thinks she's going to be
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discussing this burglary but then investigators also raise the accusation that Steven made about her
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killing her husband Harold. And they ask to download the contents of her cell phone and she agrees. But then
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when the detective leaves she starts frantically deleting text messages, right? It's like people don't watch 48
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hours Peter because they would know you I mean you can never delete a message. Yeah, I know everyone watching and
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listening to this who watches 48 they all know there is digital evidence out there and you can't just erase it. So
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nearly 7,000 texts were exchanged between Marsha and Ashley in the months leading up to Harold's death and they
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were easily recovered, right? She thought she deleted them but she hadn't. Marsha even told investigators that all
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she deleted from her phone were some photos and this is what she said, "Just want to make sure you don't see me in my
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underwear." So she she was suggesting there were some risque photos on there that she didn't want investigators to
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see. >> what she was deleting when in fact what she was deleting were these incriminating text messages and
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investigators say those texts revealed Marsha and Ashley had tried to kill Harold over and over again with a
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variety of exotic poisons including a lot of this I hadn't heard of before but pong pong seeds which can cause cardiac
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arrest, water hemlock which attacks the nervous system and can cause grand mal seizures and ethylene glycol which
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affects the the nervous system. That's that chemical that goes into antifreeze. We didn't include this in the hour but
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there is one exchange where Marsha texts Ashley, this is what Marsha said to Ashley, his exact words, "I am feeling a
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lot better since drinking Gatorade." Now this is bad news, right, to the two women because they're trying to kill
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him. Ashley replies to her mother, "Well, we need to reorder." And Marsha texts, "WTF? What the you know what?"
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They were so determined to finish this job. They weren't going to be stopped, and they carried on until they killed
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him. So, when I heard pong pong seeds, I immediately thought of the TV show The White Lotus on HBO. In the third season,
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there's a character that nearly dies after accidentally drinking pong pong seeds in a protein shake.
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But, my question that I kept on asking myself, how on earth was it possible that Marsha and Ashley could buy these
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exotic poisons online? You would think there would be some sort of restriction on that. The poisons they purchased are
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not illegal. They have legitimate uses. Pong pong seeds and water hemlock are used in gardens, and ethylene glycol is
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a component in antifreeze and can be used as a solvent. What's interesting, too, a quick aside, is that each of
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these have a unique taste or a smell to them. Some are sweet, and that's why if you mix it with
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something like a root beer float, you have no idea that you're drinking this antifreeze chemical. So, investigators
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believe that the motive here for Marsha and Ashley was money. And I'm always surprised at the amount of money that
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motivates people to murder. A $120,000 life insurance policy, it's not a little bit of money, but to kill someone? Come
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on. Everyone you spoke to said that he was a great guy. He had a big heart. He welcomes like Marsha and Ashley and
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their entire like the family into his family. To me, they had it good. Yeah, I mean,
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his nickname is Peanut. I mean, a guy nicknamed Peanut, you know, is a good guy.
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It's It's really It's just so tragic. So, was it really about money? Well, look, investigators believe that these
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two uh were evil personified. And um there was a conversation going on in those texts about that money. But
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Lieutenant Nicholson, an investigator with the Jackson County Sheriff's Department, told us that Marsha and
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Ashley believed something else, something in this that could have been another motive for murder, that there
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was a demon living inside Harold. And they needed to kill him so this demon could be released. They thought that the
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demon inside of Harold was going to escape and attach to other people living in the house.
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No one we spoke with could tell us whether Marsha and Ashley genuinely believed that Harold was a demon or if
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it was just a way of amusing themselves as they plotted a real murder. Mhm. >> And the prosecutor, Lindsey Fleetwood,
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believes that money, not evil spirits, was driving their motivation. I'm with the prosecutor, Peter. I call BS on
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that. In fact, when when you were talking about it, I thought, this seems like another attempt to distract and
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cover their bases. So, as the investigation unfolds, uh it's October 16th, 2023. Investigators serve Marsha
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with a search warrant for her home and she voluntarily returns to the Sheriff's Department and she's questioned. But
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then even after investigators confronted her about messages, she continues to go
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to, you know, say that she had nothing to do with Harold's death. And then she's allowed to return home. I was kind
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of surprised. Why did they let her go? You know, I've had the exact same reaction you just had. I'm I'm going,
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what? You let them go? But it was a strategic choice. And as you know, AnnMarie, authorities need to reach a
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certain threshold of evidence in order to make an arrest. And they wanted to build out a strong case first. So,
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Marsha was warned by detectives that they were sending the blood out for testing and expected the results to show
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that Harold was poisoned. Welcome back. So, the same day that Marsha returned home from questioning at
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the police station, Ashley, who'd been living in Missouri, was extradited back to Indiana on that burglary charge. Uh
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we see footage of her uh interview with investigators and as soon as they confront her about Harold's murder,
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she seems to turn on her mother. As she tells them the whole thing was Marsha's idea, that uh she was just being an
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obedient daughter. I have to say, you know, Marsha and Ashley seemed really close when they were plotting
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Harold's murder. I mean, thousands of text messages between them. I was really surprised that Ashley was so quick to
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point the finger at her mother. It It's chilling in a way, too. It is that that flatline emotion.
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>> Yeah. No matter what they're she's told, she just doesn't react as you would expect
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uh a normal person would react, like any of us would react. >> It was just very casual.
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Yeah, and um it just goes back to the heartless nature of these two people. Right, which brings me to this,
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something you brought up earlier in this podcast. Police discover that there's evidence that Ashley had
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actually been plotting more murders after Harold died. What do you What do we know about that? We didn't have time
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to include this in the hour. The police discovered that Ashley was plotting to kill several other people while she was
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in custody. She stayed at the local jail in Indiana for several months and she had a bunky, as they call it, a cellmate
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friend who was going to be released soon. They became close and as they approached bunky's release date, Ashley
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gave her what police called a kill list with names of people she wanted assassinated.
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Now, there were several names on the list, all people she had some relationship with while she and Marsha
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were plotting this murder. It included her best friend Steven White, remember the one of the burglars.
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>> Right, no surprise that started this whole investigation. But also Steven White's mother was on the list. The
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cellmate went to authorities and agreed to wear a concealed recording device in her cell. She drew Ashley out in
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conversation about this kill list, and the detectives interviewed the cellmate right after, and let's listen to a
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portion of that interview where the cellmate is talking about her reaction to Ashley approaching her with this kill
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list. She said, "We're going to win this game of chess." And she said, "You know,
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since she was seven, her mom has trained her, you know, that that What did was she talking
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>> Her eyes. I mean, you hear me saying you're shark-eyed. Pupils, man, they go big when she starts
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talking about killing people, and then they go pin dot, and then they go big, and she just I mean, it's that.
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She basically is saying that they're going to win this game of chess. And apparently this game, this poisonous
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game, uh still had some moves to to to be made, and among them was this desire to to create even more victims. I mean,
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was Ashley ever charged for that? Uh no, she wasn't. I asked the prosecutor about
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it, and she said Ashley is not currently being charged for anything to do with that kill list for certain legal
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reasons, but that investigators did take it seriously, and they followed through
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with their investigation on it. Let's go back to Harold's case now. Um there was
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a shocking turn of events. Uh hours after Marsha returns home from questioning on October 16th, 2023,
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police were dispatched to the house for a welfare check and they discover that she has died by suicide. I asked
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Lieutenant Nicholson about, um, Marsha's suicide and he said, "I think she didn't want to have to spend the
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rest of her life in prison. Um, you know, I told her that we were going to send the blood off. I think she she just
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didn't want to stick around and wait and find out what those results were when she knew what the results were." She
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leaves a note. And it reads, "I did not kill my husband. You win, Ashley." So, the prosecutor said in the hour that
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she believed that the message was Marsha's way of trying to get out of the fact that she killed her husband I get
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for I guess even in death she didn't want people to think that she was a murderer, but what do you make of it? We
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talked about this a lot, uh, as a team and based on all of our interviews and research, we believe there there is
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another layer that the note reads like a mother trying to implicate the daughter
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she supposedly loved. So, indeed when the toxicology report on Harold's blood comes back, it it is confirmed that, uh,
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ethylene glycol was in his system. And there were text messages from before Harold died that actually discussed
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preparing this these root beer floats, which would mask the sweet taste of the ethylene.
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Now, here's the question. Who is the mastermind behind this plot? Both women benefited. Both women are
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pointing the finger at each other. Who do prosecutors believe was really behind this? I asked the lead prosecutor
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about this, uh, and she said she doesn't believe we'll ever know who pushed harder to murder Harold. They were both
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so enthusiastic, both will so willing to discuss strategy of what kind of foods and beverages we can put this into. Um,
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the prosecutor points out that that Marsha was married to him. She was the one that laid beside him at night, and
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she was the one who ultimately put the poison in the root beer that killed him. But, she also said that Ashley was uh on
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her side constantly in her ear, helping her every step of the way, encouraging her mother every step of the way, being
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a facilitator for her mother. Um, at the end of the day after we sorted through all of it, this was really a
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team effort, and I think they both shared equal responsibility for this this brutal murder. So, in August of 2025,
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Ashley took a plea deal. Pleaded guilty to attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder. I was sort of surprised
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she was sentenced to 50 years in prison. That's I not the best deal on her end. But, we
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have to talk about Ashley's late husband, Ty Jones. He died in 2019. He was just 33 years old. The autopsy
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listed his death as related to heart issues, which is kind of surprising for a 33-year-old. Ty's family went to the
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police as soon as they saw Harold's case on the local news. They raised their suspicions that Ashley really may have
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had something to do with Ty's death as well. Do police believe that they have evidence tying Ashley to Ty's possible
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murder? Well, it is an ongoing investigation, and we're not told all the evidence that
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authorities have. Ashley maintains that Ty died of a heart attack and has not been charged. According to Ty's family,
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Ashley didn't shed any tears during Ty's funeral service, and the next day she shows up at Ty's place of employment
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asking about his life insurance policy. Uh, no one reported his death as suspicious at at that time and heart
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attacks can happen to otherwise healthy people. Um, and then he was cremated shortly
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after his death uh, at Ashley's Ashley's urging to have him crem- cremated. The suspicion also
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came into play well after his tissue and blood samples would have been disposed of. So, there was nothing to go back, no
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no tissue, no blood to be able to examine see if there were poisons in there. We do know there's one text
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exchange between Ashley and Marsha after Marsha complained that the pong pong seeds were failing to kill Harold.
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Ashley texted that Ty had weighed much less than Harold writing, "And previously Ty was only 120
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lol." Mhm. During our interview, Ty's uncle, William Jones, and cousin, Aretha Stivers, heard about that text for the
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very first time and we want to play a clip from the moment that they learned this information.
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There it is. There it is right there. It's painful to hear. >> Yeah, it is. Because it's one thing to
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suspect and to feel like you know, but to have that kind of evidence presented verbally for the first time
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is gut-wrenching. >> It means what you have suspected all along is true. All the time.
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All the time. And that suspicion is is that uh, Ty was poisoned. Both of them cried. There was a sense of relief to
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get this news. It was really profound for them and for me sitting across from them. It closed a circle of pain and
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injustice. When you heard that sound, you know, it was like, "Yes. >> Yes, that Slam on the table. Yes. And it was an
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incredible moment not just for me, but for all the crew uh, to break that news to them and sit across from them. It
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must have meant so much for them to understand that indeed they might be on the right track and you know, push push
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more. Absolutely and we'll see where this goes. I mean it is still under investigation.
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>> We will reiterate that Ashley says that her husband Ty died of natural causes.
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Um Peter, another great hour. Thank you so much for joining us today. Hey, thank
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you Anne Marie. So, if you like this episode, please rate and review on Apple podcast or
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Spotify.