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I'm not a fan of horror movies reporter Steve begira didn't know how details from his stories made their way into the
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original Candyman film until after it was released his first article came out in
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1987 they came in through the bathroom mirror a murder in the projects the two suspects John hress and
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Edward Turner had been arrested years passed before they finally got their day in court and while they were awaiting
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trial a British director was developing a new movie we're going to step away from the pursuit of Justice in Ruthie
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May mco's case and focus for a moment on how her story made it to the big screen
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I had actually gotten either a phone call or a letter back when people wrote letters from somebody in Hollywood
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saying we're doing this movie that's based in a housing project in Chicago [Music]
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back in the early 90s reporter Steve begira got an ask from Hollywood he doesn't remember the person's name but
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the Hollywood rep asked Steve to be their guide when they visited Chicago we understand that you're an expert
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on the projects and could you show us around when we come to town to film and we'll give you I don't remember what it
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was but it was like a couple hundred doar in a screen credit the last thing Steve wanted to do was support a movie
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that made a light of the Project's living conditions or that trivialized the murder of Ruthie May he'd been
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pitched before about turning Ruthie May's story into a movie but at that first meeting Steve was told that the
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main character of the film couldn't be Ruthie May or someone in the projects the person making the pitch thought that
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the protagonist would have to be white for the film to even have a chance at getting made and Steve wasn't a fan of
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that idea he'd gotten to know Ruthie May's family and spent years trying to hold
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the police and the Chicago Housing Authority accountable for her death he wasn't going to trust just anybody so
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when the second Hollywood type reached out I said send me the script and if it's not an exploitive
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movie I will probably help you out ultimately Steve never helped anyone put Ruthie May's story on the big screen but
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her story still became part of a cold classic what's Steve didn't know was while he was following the prosecution
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of the two men arrested for killing Ruthy May production on the first Candyman film was already in gear it
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must have been a couple of years after Candyman came out somebody told me hey you know there's stuff in here that
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seems to be from the story you wrote that's when I watched the movie he noticed that a young Virginia Madson
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with curly blonde hair was the lead she ended up playing the Curious graduate student who parachutes into the projects
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the main character was a white woman and this story I had done at least was about
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a black woman how did a movie about the horrors of a black housing complex end up
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centering on a white Outsider and how did elements of Ruthie May's story end up in the Candyman
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film this period after her death and before before the trial is when writer and director Bernard Rose started
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working on Candyman he was the only person who could really answer my questions we
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reached out and waited then one June afternoon we finally got the chance to talk it's always a pleasure to talk
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about candy man from a different angle Rose told me how he found out about Ruthie May's story and didn't shy away
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from defending himself to critics I can see why people think oh why why are they
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taking these details from this but you know I mean look that's what fiction is I'm Dom Pongo from 48 hours this is
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Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder episode 4 based on a true
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story I wasn't trying to make a thesis I was trying to make an entertaining horror film Bernard Ro wrote and
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directed the original Candyman that came out in 1992 he's talking to me on a zoom from
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West Hollywood wearing glasses and an all black shirt rose has a grain goatee and an easygoing Vibe he told me he
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would have never predicted that his Candyman would still have an audience decades later it feels like it has a
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much bigger Shadow now than then before I asked him about Ruthie May McCoy and how parts of her story ended up in his
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movie I wanted to know how he got the idea for Candyman in the first place you'll remember the movie's primary
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source material and the work that's officially credited in the film is Clive Barker's short story called The
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Forbidden I knew Clive Barker I knew him socially actually when I I'd been doing
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another film up Pine with guds according to Rose he met Barker for lunch while they were both working at the same
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Production Studio critics liked Rose's first feature film paper house it was a dark
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fantasy and he was looking for a new project when he came across Barker's story The Forbidden I read that and I
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thought you know what this actually really works as a story this is a great and interesting story Rose now in his
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60s is originally from London if you didn't catch that accent he told me that he'd always thought that a horror film
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needed a supernatural element that's what appealed to him about the Forbidden which is about a graduate student named
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Helen who investigates urban legends it's set basically in a district of just outside of Liverpool called Kirby which
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is very full of low-income housing and what they call in England Council housing as Helen visits the council
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housing she conjures up Supernatural forces while working on a research paper I liked the fact that its heroin was an
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intellectual and she wasn't a kid all of this sounds familiar to anyone who has seen candy
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but what I found really interesting was the reason Rose took a liking to this story the director told me that he loved
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how Helen approached this undertaking from an analytical perspective not an emotional one she was interested in this
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phenomenon of urban legends and and what was going on in this housing project but
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her interest wasn't to help people it was to write a study and I liked the kind of arrogance of that
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he actually liked that Helen had little empathy for the community she was researching he thought that arrogance
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made the story work you know I think it's much more interesting to follow somebody who's flawed and and I think
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there's always an element of punishment in a horror film that that she gets into
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trouble and it's like there has to be something that she's done wrong in a sense and the thing that she's done
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wrong is she's poked her nose in where it wasn't really wanted you know for his movie he kept this aspect of Helen the
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character Virginia Matson plays is a middle class woman essentially parachuting into a low-income
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neighborhood it was exactly the opposite of what they would have made you do in a
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kind of movie of the week TV film where she would have been trying to help people she's never trying to help people
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she makes no effort to help anybody in the film he said that's a big part of the
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conflict she didn't understand and was actually in a weird way exploiting the inter action she just wants to write a
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paper and and get praised for it you know Rose was inspired and thought this could be his next movie his original
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plan was to keep the setting the same as Clive Barker's story until the author himself suggested
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otherwise Barker had also directed the film Hellraiser and he had learned that American movie Distributors sometimes
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balked at movie stars with thick accents the film was set in Liverpool and and Liverpool accents were just like beyond
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the P for them so they decided to make the characters American so according to Rose if Hellraiser hadn't had a
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distribution problem then Rose might never have set Candyman in Chicago and in a way I wouldn't be here talking
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about Ruthie May McCoy today in his first draft Rose hadn't thought of Chicago yet he hadn't even
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set Candy Man in any particular city was just Aid Western City it could have been
00:09:00
anyway it could have been St Louis I don't know it could have been Milwaukee his approach to the story changed after
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he decided to actually visit locations I wanted to go Scout somewhere and do some
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research and I ended up going to Chicago mostly cuz I'd been there and I remembered how spectacular the buildings
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were I mean it was that shallow you know it's a spectacular looking city right yeah and and it's bias but I agree it's
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a city of Architects really it is it is and it's a city where architecture is very important his interest in the
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architecture stood out to me since how the projects were designed is so crucial to how Ruthie May died and to the movie
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itself Rose might not have clocked that yet but when he went to Chicago he started on a journey that would lead him
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to hearing about the murder of Ruthie May McCoy Rose wanted to visit the projects the people from the Illinois
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film office were nervous about taking me there see they weren't just nervous they
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were downright terrified and their fear would end up becoming a big part of the original
00:10:08
Candyman [Music] movie for people who have seen Candyman it's odd to think Bernard Rose's first
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script didn't mention race at all the conflict was just about class originally which might make sense for someone
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writing from a British perspective where race and class might not be as inextricably linked but in America you
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can't talk about class inequities without talking about race too and definitely not in the highly segregated
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City of Chicago in the final version of rose's script Helen has a black friend who is also middle class that goes with
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her to visit the projects she feels as alienated from the people in the projects as Helen does except that she's
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more embarrassed at Helen's Behavior because she understands that it's embarrassing to behave this way race
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takes center stage and Rose's movie whether he intended it that way or not Janet massin of the New York Times put
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it this way in her review she writes the horror unfolds inside a housing project
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and plays out provocatively against a backdrop of racial Injustice in the movie The Killer is a Reincarnation of a
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well-to-do black man who was tortured and lynched by a mob in the 1800s Daniel robotized crime was dating a
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white man's daughter the mob hunts him down beats him chops off his hand and smears his battered body with honey
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before bees sting him to death the lynching is [Music] graphic but all of those plot details
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were only added after Bernard Rose went to Chicago I contacted the people who were at the Illinois film office and
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certainly in that era if you said you wanted to come in and potentially shoot a film in a city they would show you
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around and they they would always ask you for a list of locations as to what your film needed
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and you know I top of the list was housing projects the first place they took me was Cabrini Green he said they
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also took him to another project but not Grace Abbott where Ruthie may had lived
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I know I don't I ever went that Rose was surprised by how nervous the people from
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the Illinois film office seemed as they took him to visit kabini green which was
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the closest project to downtown no project is more notorious than Cabrini Green the 23 high-rise buildings of
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Cabrini with their 15,000 residents are described as a chamber of Horrors the occupants are terrorized Day and Night
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by vandals and teenage gangs 7,000 families are on a waiting list for public housing in Chicago but about 400
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units at Cabrini Green have been vacated by families trying to escape the lawlessness though CBS news reports were
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from 1970 by then between media attention and its depiction in TV shows Cabrini began
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to have quite the reputation in Cabrini Green at the time there was a police station in the middle of the
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project and I think we had to go there and then we were escorted around the place by an officer you know and they
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they didn't think it was safe to go there otherwise that was their attitude were you taken aback by that yeah
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extremely to be honest with you I was shocked and of course when somebody has that kind of drama around going so into
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what is basically just an apartment block I mean it's not really any more complicated than that
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it's a bunch of apartment blocks he said the upper floors were empty and he had to admit the buildings were creepy there
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was an atmosphere there a fear but the fear was not from the people who lived there the fear was the people from the
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Illinois film commission and the cops and and that that really kind of shocked me I thought wow there's something here
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because one of the one of the first key tenants of making a successful horror film is having a scary setting I thought
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these people are scared of going here did they tell you anything about what about why they were so scared of this
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community they basically said there were groups of gangs that held the neighborhood hostage during his visit
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Rose was able to talk with cops Who police the buildings on a day-to-day basis I learned that actually the danger
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was exaggerated and that that in itself was heart of the racism that surrounded the place and what is the primary
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component of racism is fear right Outsiders were afraid of the people who lived there afraid of what could happen
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there their Prejudice stoked Their Fear what the cops said to me is if you're a a white person walking around here
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they're not actually going to bother you at all because they're going to assume you're a social worker or a cop Rose
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worked these details from his own experience into the script in Candyman Helen gets mistaken for a cop when she's
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seen in the projects when I rewrote it I rewrote it set as about kabini green and
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I just used everything I'd seen and heard that decision to replicate these fears on screen is a choice that has
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sparked debate debate from Scholars like Robin means Coleman what 30 or more years that we've been having a
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conversation about race and class in this movie Coleman is a professor at the University of Virginia and a media study
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scholar she's written two books on black people and horror films and turned one into a documentary both books horror
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Noir and the black guy dies first mention Candyman there are two films that I watch a lot it's the 92 Candyman
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and the thing she's been debating Candyman for the last 30 years and she understands
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that not everyone gets the controversies around this movie we've got to address the Skeptics who are like it was just a
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movie and he saw a headline and it was you know a narrative vehicle to get her into cabrina green how else are we going
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to do that but Ruthie May McCoy is a real life person her family are alive and out there and what we have are
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entertainers who snatch someone's story real life horrific murder for entertainment purposes back when she was
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writing the first edition of her book hor Noir Coleman wanted to pick a real life story turned into film she wasn't
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sure whether to write about Ruthie May or Jeffrey dmer and if you read the first first edition of the book I go
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with Jeffrey dmer Ruthie May felt I think at that time I was writing it it felt too close to home it
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felt like Ruthie May m may as they called her that could have easily been me my mother my grandmother Coleman and
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I talked about how Candyman doesn't actually grapple with the horror of people's lives and the projects with
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Nuance I mean even without knowing the director intentions a lot of black folks watching this movie could tell that the
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conversations about race were a bit of an afterthought back in 1992 when the film
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was released colan said critics reviews were mixed there were two responses to Candyman and one I remember was from
00:17:49
Carl Franklin Carl Franklin is a black filmmaker famous for the Denzel Washington movie Devil in a blue dress
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and Carl Franklin said seriously we're doing the black Boogeyman brutal Buck Trope in this movie again where the
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obsession is over this white woman who were sort of putting on a pedestal in this critique Candyman is of course the
00:18:14
black Boogeyman it's a Trope that seizes on fear by perpetuating a portrayal of black men as violent and menacing often
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chasing white women like the Candyman chases Helen the Trope goes all the way back to Hollywood's first Blockbuster
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film The Birth of a Nation which depicts the KKK and is blamed for inspiring a spike in real life lynchings and race
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riots do we need yet another movie that glorifies that kind of stereotype that kind of Trope Roger
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Ebert who was white had a different opinion based in Chicago Ebert was a well-respected movie critic Roger eert
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on the other hand said you know like if I if you have to do horror this is the kind of horror you
00:19:04
want to see right eer is saying I do like the sort of social issues social Consciousness horror something that
00:19:13
leaves me thinking and reflecting what's interesting is that Bernard Rose told me he didn't go into
00:19:21
this film wanting to send any kind of message but there were signs that he knew that what he was making
00:19:29
touched a nerve I was in post production on Candyman at the time it was April 1992 parts of Los Angeles were on fire
00:19:38
in Los Angeles the deadly aftermath of the Rodney King verdict violence arson and anguished cries a disgrace it don't
00:19:47
make no riots broke out across the city after white police officers were acquitted of excessive force the public
00:19:53
outrage stem from the fact that these officers were caught on videotape brutally beating this black motorist his
00:20:00
name was Rodney King we were supposed to have a test screening somewhere that week and the riot started happening and
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people got very frightened and I was mixing in a stage in Hollywood and the mixer was grinding through the scene
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with the dog and the blood and all this Rose is describing a gruesome scene where a Candyman had cut off a dog's
00:20:22
head in a project apartment and I said oh I'm not happy with that you need to go back and change something and he went
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he said no I'm not going back I'm not changing it because I'm not looking at this film anymore Rose was warned that
00:20:34
the film might be quote a bit too much and that test screening never happened and then the film got released without
00:20:43
it which is probably a good thing cuz who knows what they might have made me take out what he did include he told me
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largely came from his visits to Cabrini Green during his first visit with the Illinois film office he connected with
00:21:00
the woman who lived there we bumped into a lady who was had her kid in a stroller
00:21:07
whose name was Henrietta Thomas who was like asking us what we were doing basically he explained how he was
00:21:13
working on a movie I told her it was about this sort of mythical kind of monster that haunted
00:21:20
the place kind of thing and she was basically saying oh yeah well you know that that's true by the way and what was
00:21:27
she talking about uh she said oh there are like ghosts and demons that haunt this place the director realized
00:21:34
Candyman could haunt a place like this too this idea went back to something from Clive Barker's The Forbidden so
00:21:42
really the whole thesis that Clive had that people who live in situations which make them uncomfortable it's not
00:21:49
uncommon for them to create something that's worse and more uncontrollable cuz in a way way it makes him feel safer
00:21:56
during his visit to the projects with the Illinois film office Rose asked the tenant he'd met Henrietta if he could
00:22:03
come back to Cabrini Green on his own I thought okay I'm going to just call her after we've left and just go there on my
00:22:11
own and see what really happens the two had dinner and he got to see kabini green from a tennis perspective Rose
00:22:17
decided to hire Henrietta to be a consultant on the film and based a character on her too the character's
00:22:23
name is an Marie and in the movie A major plot point is when candy man steals an Marie's
00:22:31
child as for the real person she had a young kid and it was just a place that she lived that honestly she liked living
00:22:38
because it was near downtown Chicago Rose said that she was actually the first person to bring up the details of
00:22:45
Ruthie May's murder it was she who told me the story about the medicine cabinets
00:22:51
and that somebody had been killed in another home that had a similar design with the floor with the medicine
00:22:57
cabinets and you could get in and out the PS and if someone had broken in and killed somebody she told me that story
00:23:05
and said that that was something that that Disturbed her it was the kind of violation that was visceral and
00:23:13
memorable I thought all this detail is so so rich and it just it grounds the film and you know if you want to make
00:23:22
something scary it has to be recognizable [Music] but when the art is that recognizable when the art represents
00:23:33
real trauma it has to be handled with care we might be having a different conversation even if at the end of the
00:23:41
film it said in memory of Ruth May right or read more about and we've got models
00:23:52
for this she pointed to Steve buira as one of those models when he's writing his article and he writes subsequent
00:24:00
articles he doesn't point back to his own journalism he says learn more about housing projects learn more about how
00:24:07
this happened meanwhile the director wanted to unnerve people and knew that he was
00:24:14
parachuting into the projects just like his movie's protagonist Helen so I was essentially doing what Helen does in the
00:24:21
film I was like walking around Gathering things for my own benefit but where did
00:24:26
he gather so many details about Ruthie May's murder he said Henrietta told him that someone came in
00:24:33
through a medicine cabinet and killed a woman but that's not how he learned Ruthie May's name what does he have to
00:24:40
say to folks who believe that his film exploited Ruth May's killing it's not the same murder as as that murder that
00:24:48
was an entirely unrelated event it's just the really the only thing that's taken is the detail of the the bathro
00:24:56
cabinets [Music] it was one of those weird pieces of kind of kismet I think I was in the hotel and
00:25:15
I literally opened the Chicago Reader and there was an article about IT director Bernard Rose had come to
00:25:21
Chicago to visit kabini green and ATT tenant had told him about this murder where a killer or Killers came in
00:25:28
through a medicine cabinet he happened to be visiting the city just when Steve beira's second article about Ruthie May
00:25:36
McCoy's life and murder was published July 1990 if you missed that issue of the reader there was you unless you had
00:25:45
gone to a library and looked it up on a microfilm you would never find it so in his movie that's what Helen the blonde
00:25:52
grad student does she goes to the library and looks it up on her microphone do you remember
00:25:59
the title of the article that you read that that caught your attention I mean it's very similar to the the depiction
00:26:06
in the movie something like what killed whatever the lady's real name was life in the projects with a question mark I
00:26:12
think that was it that lady was of course Ruthie May McCoy I reached out to her granddaughter
00:26:18
key but she declined to talk to us for this podcast based partly on her past experiences with media key had seen her
00:26:27
family story Miss represented in the news before she said while a film was being made that mentioned Ruthie May's
00:26:33
killing her mom Vita was dealing with the real life aftermath of Ruthie May's death and I mean obviously the actual
00:26:40
murder itself has nothing to do with Candyman somebody came in and shot her right yes yes but but there is the
00:26:46
character of Ruthie Jean that is the name in the film which is obviously very similar to Ruthie May was that a
00:26:53
conscious decision I mean it probably was yeah it's always very complicated when something think a true story I look
00:27:00
at these parallels with Ruthie May's story and you know you think about the family or ruy May's daughter and they
00:27:09
looking at the film and feeling like these elements are reminiscent of what happened to Ruthie May uh but they felt
00:27:17
like they weren't a part of the process what would you say to that critique I mean I think that's
00:27:23
valid Rose said that he never considered making one of Ruthie May's relatives a consultant on the film and points out
00:27:31
that his movie is about Candyman not Ruthie May it's not about that person not about the real person at all you
00:27:37
know and it is ultimately a fictitious fantasy they uses some authentic details in part but it's not about any
00:27:48
real person at all I'm going to push back a little bit and forgive me Bernard but when you go back and look we went
00:27:54
and checked out and Marie in the Forbidden her last name name isn't McCoy so McCoy comes only in the Candyman film
00:28:03
and that and that seems part of the lineage of Ruthy May who again the movie is Ruthie May Ruthie Jean and then you
00:28:09
got amarie the resident who's amarie McCoy so then you see these names kind of play into it and and I know you know
00:28:16
that's I assume you would have describe it as a dotted line not a straight line connection between the real murder but
00:28:21
if I'm the family I'm looking and I'm seeing these connections and I feel as though I should at least be a part of
00:28:29
the process I mean I can see how you could feel like that but if it was a film about what happened to her you know
00:28:37
the real person but this clearly is not to be honest he's right in some respect I mean this movie isn't solely
00:28:46
about Ruthie May she's a plot point to get to the story of Candyman but I'm not sure that he understands why turning her
00:28:54
into a plot Point can be considered by some as dehumanized in instead he tries to argue that that's how movies like his
00:29:03
get made you take things from the world around you and put them into new forms that's really what fiction is it's not
00:29:12
any clever than that Rose didn't have any memory of ever reaching out to Steve PIRA either he said it's possible The
00:29:20
Producers contacted him but he was never made aware I have no direct memory or knowledge of that because as I said we I
00:29:27
had already hired henrya as the consultant so it's entirely possible that someone suggested him Rose didn't
00:29:34
set out to make a racially charged movie that included Inspirations from real people and events it just ended up that
00:29:41
way the film has been criticized at different times over the years for saying you know it's this it's that it's
00:29:48
got the wrong perspective blah blah blah he's talking about the criticisms Coleman mentioned about how the movie
00:29:54
feeds into anti-black stereotypes I think that yes it is UNC comfortable in places and I think if it
00:30:00
wasn't it wouldn't have lasted if something ceases to create debate it [Music] dies I asked how he decided the line
00:30:11
between inspiration and exploitation his answer again reminded me a little bit of how he described the
00:30:19
character Helen's approach well I think that if you take anything whatever you do with it there's an element of
00:30:27
exploitation and you have to just accept that's what you're doing the only way to really be
00:30:32
non- exploitative is not to do anything because we're all to some degree you know driving past car accidents and
00:30:40
staring at them his argument is that this is the messy part of making art Rose thinks anyone who claims to feel
00:30:47
guilty for taking their inspiration from The Real World is probably lie do they feel guilty about it and they might
00:30:55
pretend they do I don't think they do it I think there is a little difference when you're
00:31:02
dealing with actual victims of actual crimes that that's really what you're talking about but even then I don't know
00:31:11
they'd never have sold a newspaper if it wasn't for Crime the True Crime genre gets a lot of
00:31:20
criticism for exploiting other people's tragedies for entertainment some of the same reasons we've been challenging Rose
00:31:27
an INT True Crime like this podcast we are sharing the details of Ruthie May's life in fact we're sharing more than
00:31:33
Bernard Rose ever did but the key difference to me is that our ultimate goal is to inform and to help people
00:31:42
understand how tragedies like these can happen to put them in their proper context so I try to ask myself whenever
00:31:49
I'm reporting how would this victim's family feel how would I feel in fact a lot of times I'm reporting on my own
00:31:55
Community I may even be connected to the victims in some way so I do my best to be accurate and
00:32:02
respectful that said I have to admit that a part of me feels like Candyman does a disservice by not properly
00:32:09
acknowledging these real tragedies Coleman wasn't surprised by what the director told me he's a
00:32:18
filmmaker he's like look I did I made an entertaining movie he's you know this is
00:32:23
what he does but I mentioned it's important to go back to Steve Steve buera she brought back up the story
00:32:31
about Steve meeting with an actor who told him the protagonist would have to be white for the film to get made and
00:32:38
they do exactly what Steve cautions them against doing at times Steve felt strange in
00:32:47
general about being a white man writing about people of color I totally understand the feeling that it's wrong
00:32:54
that people who are poor and in this case black at that time at least the stories were told by white people but he
00:33:02
also knew these stories were being overlooked by mainstream Outlets I always felt like it was better that I
00:33:08
was told by someone and that I would do my best to Faithfully represent what their
00:33:15
experience was like for Rose keeping Ruthie May's story alive is now part of the film's Legacy so there is a
00:33:23
memorializing effect and that's got to be positive but but you know look I can't imagine that how traumatic it is
00:33:29
for family members to have to deal with someone in their family that's murdered it's it's it's almost like what the
00:33:35
Candyman says what's worse is is it worse to be forgotten or to be remembered well the Candyman he he kills
00:33:43
so not to be forgotten that's his whole motivation he sheds innocent blood to keep people talking about him if people
00:33:54
remember what happened that can never be bad in my opinion I think when things are
00:34:00
forgotten or denied that seems the unhealthy thing to me keeping Ruthie May's memory alive also means that the
00:34:09
failed housing policies of Chicago's past can't be swept under the rug the heart of any problem was that the
00:34:16
Housing Authority had allowed these buildings to rot to Rose's point there is a chance I
00:34:26
wouldn't be talking about Ruthie murder if not for this film and while Candyman turned me on to the case her murder and
00:34:33
the trials of the two men arrested for her killing are what will cover next Edward Turner and John hondras pleaded
00:34:41
not guilty to the charges of murder and robbery their names had come up repeatedly as police talked to the
00:34:49
residents of the project building where Ruthie May was killed I can understand that from a detective's point of view
00:34:54
that you would hone in on the two people who are mentioned regularly but of course that doesn't mean that they did
00:35:02
it Steve mcira attended the trial the states attorneys had a little bit more evidence against
00:35:10
Turner so they made it technically a death penalty Case prosecution's Case relied heavily on a six-page statement
00:35:19
from a witness named Tim Brown their plan was to have him take the stand and repeat the chain of events the attorney
00:35:28
wrote down when they interviewed him but suddenly Tim Brown wasn't so sure what he saw that night he got on the stand
00:35:37
and flipped on the State's Attorneys that's next time when Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror
00:35:48
murder from 48 hours this is Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder I'm your host and
00:35:55
co-executive producer DOMA Pongo Judy igard is the executive producer of 48 Hours Jamie Benson is the
00:36:05
senior producer for Paramount audio and Mora walls is the senior story editor development by 48 Hours field producer
00:36:13
Morgan KY recording assistance from Marlon polycarp and Alan Pang special thanks to Paramount podcast vice
00:36:21
president Megan Marcus Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder is produced
00:36:27
by Sony Music Entertainment it was reported written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are
00:36:33
Katherine St Louis and Jonathan hir our associate producer is summer tamad theme
00:36:39
and original music composed by Cedric Wilson he sound designed and mix the episodes we also use music from
00:36:46
APM fle Fon is our fact Checker and our production manager is Tama balance kassi don't want to miss the next
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wherever you get your podcast and leave a rating if you like the show see you next Thursday