00:00:02
Ruthie May McCoy died in the spring of 1987 a month later just as summer was heating up hondras and Turner were
00:00:12
indicted they were charged with murder armed robbery home invasion residential burglary and armed
00:00:20
violence it took three years for Edward Turner and John Hond to go on trial after their arrest for the murder of
00:00:26
Ruthie May McCoy they don't have physical evidence to help them no useful fingerprints were found at the scene
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Ruthie May's medicine cabinet was missing plus investigators never recovered the gun and got a late start
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securing the crime scene another problem with the police not going in to the apartment originally is that by the time
00:00:47
they got back there the place had been wiped clean the case largely hinged oning the
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prosecution star witness Tim brown brown told police that he saw hondras and Turner go into Ruthie May's
00:01:02
apartment the two suspects spent all three years waiting behind bars Steve begira found out that hondras lost three
00:01:10
relatives while he was waiting for his trial in this case first his grandfather then his mother died of
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cancer and just 2 days after her funeral a police officer shot and killed hr's 16-year-old brother authorities told
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hr's family that he was too dangerous to be released for the funerals so he never
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got to say goodbye John hondras was in his mid-20s and he'd been in prison before he was
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convicted of auto theft and robbery detectives were told he had only been a free man for less than a week when
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Ruthie May was shot Edward Turner was just 18 when Ruthie May was killed in the past Turner
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a high school senior had been charged with unlawful use of a weapon his mother Al the Turner said
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that he liked to listen to the radio with friends and never gave in when other young men pressured him to join a
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gang she said Turner never would have hurt Ruthie may they knew her and used to live in the same
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highrise the two suspects chose to have their Fates decided differently Turner went to the jury of his peers while hres
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went with the bench trial so a judge would decide whether he was guilty or innocent when they finally went to trial
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report Steve beira was still on the case even though Turner had opted for a jury
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and hondras was going to have his fate determined by the judge Michael Getty but they're going on at the same time so
00:02:42
you have a lot going on they both had judge Michael Getty and each suspect had pleaded not guilty the court decided to
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have both trials at the same time in the same room now if there was a moment that
00:02:56
was specific to only hr's case they would escort Turner's jury out of the courtroom
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temporarily there were some relatives and Friends of the defendants the only person there on
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behalf of Ruthie May was her brother Willie willly McCoy step Willie often talked while Court was in recess I
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really enjoyed talking with willly McCoy he was a born again Christian who said he had had his problems before he was
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born again he was messing with drugs at the time of the trials Willie was 57 even though he was Ruthie May's older
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brother he said sometimes she would help him with his school work back in the day
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he said his sister was generous Willie told Steve that she would have given you the shoe strings off her shoes if you
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needed them he clearly loved Ruthie May and that came across and he was like a lot of people who do come and support of
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the victim he was not all about vengeance like we got to get these people convicted Steve said Willie had mellowed
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out with age he witnessed an example of this in the courtroom a friend of Edward
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Turner's family asked Willie Point Blank if he thought Turner had really killed Ruthie May McCoy Shrugged and the friend
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said I'll tell you truthfully I don't believe he did but if he did do this I hope he burns because if someone did
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this to my mother they wouldn't be here in court I'll tell you that Steve is reading from his own reporting and
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Willie McCoy then smiled and he said I know what you mean I used to feel that way too but I've grown
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some I understand the friend said and then McCoy told me that he wasn't always as forgiving as he is
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today had his sister been murdered like this when he was younger he told me I would have gone over and tore the whole
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West Side Up I didn't found the people who did it and blew their brains out and kept
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walking Willie came to almost every day of the trials I liked what he had to say
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because he was ambivalent uh because he knew how the world worked Steve and Willie understood
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there was no guarantee these suspects would be convicted he was not naive and yet he also had this compassion this
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understanding of what life is like how people can get messed up in things that they don't want to get messed up in no
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one not Steve not the loved ones of the suspects and certainly not the prosecution could have predicted what
00:05:41
would happen next the prosecution was hanging this case on the statement that Tim Brown had given them the
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prosecution's star witness changed his story I'm Doma Pungo from 48 hours this is Candyman the true story behind the
00:06:00
bathroom mirror [Music] murder episode 5 the wavering witness no other reporter has followed
00:06:15
what happened to Ruthie May McCoy more closely than Steve buira I feel like I got to know Ruthie May somewhat in spite
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of her death Steve and I spent hours on a zoom one Wednesday afternoon she came here from Arkansas when he was young
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Steve was thin with white hair and was wearing a button-up shirt just off screen he had several stacks of his old
00:06:37
notes occasionally he'd pause the interview grab his glasses and read through his reporting to make sure he
00:06:44
was getting the story right in his decad spent reporting in Chicago he'd covered
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plenty of Trials the Kook County criminal courthouse now known as the Leighton courthouse is commonly known as 26 in
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California that's where it is on the southwest side of the city and it's the biggest and busiest felony courthouse in
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the country the courthouse stood seven stories adorned with cement colored neoclassical stone columns and the place
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had a chill to it fluorescent lighting Gruff security guards a tense screening process there was a sense of for booting
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in there just thinking about the decisions happening behind each set of doors course it's not a pleasant place
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to be it's a courthouse where white people if they experience it at all it's because they got jury duty whereas a lot
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of poor black people know the place pretty intimately they know where the coke machines are thankfully I can count
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on one hand the number of times I've been to 26 in California and none were pleasant the most recent was in 2018
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when I was reporting on the trial of a white police officer found guilty of fatally shooting a black teenager 16
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times a lot of people also just want to stay away from 26 in California if they can't bad things happen down there
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that's how people look at it so as odd as it might sound I'm not surprised only a small group watched the Turner in Hond
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trials very few people were spectating watching or or there in support of the defendants were there for the victim
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Edward Turner's mother Altha was there and Ruthie May's brother Willie too no other reporters covered the trial
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according to Steve there wasn't broad interest in this case in public were you struck at
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all that it was just Willie who attended on the part of Ruthie May yes absolutely
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was Ruthie May's daughter Berita for whatever reason did not attend I have seen situations where sometimes just to
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relive in the court case the the pain of it all can be a lot for people but you know yeah I think a lot of people can
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think what good is going to do uh for me to see what happens in the trial might not be what I'd like to have happen then
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I'll just get hurt worse on March 27th 1990 the two defendants Turner and hondras arrived in
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court wearing dark suits Turner 21 by then was clean shaven with a short haircut Steve wrote that he sat stiff
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and expressionless at the defense table by then hondras was 25 he wore wire rimed glasses and had his hair
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pulled back into a ponytail because HR had three prior felonies he faced up to 80 years if convicted Turner faced an
00:09:47
even more serious punishment the State's Attorneys had a little bit more evidence
00:09:52
against Turner so they made it technically a death penalty case multiple people told detectives that
00:10:00
Turner had admitted he shot a woman the night Ruthie May was killed now he hadn't said out right it
00:10:07
was Ruthie may but his alleged confession was the reason Turner faced the death penalty Turner's lawyers argue
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that he didn't shoot anyone and that he was just a teenager lying to impress someone
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[Music] Willie McCoy was called To The Stand he identified his sister's TV and rocking
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chair after him the Chicago Housing Authority project manager who finally opened Ruthie May's door
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testified she didn't know why the key the police were given for Ruthie May's apartment hadn't worked the prosecution
00:10:51
also brought Sonia Moore up to the stand she had lived in Abbot homes and at the
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time of the trial she told Steve she was turning girlfriend she testified that Turner came to her place the night
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Ruthie May was murdered at around 10:30 that evening he sat in her living room with her her sister and her sister's
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boyfriend they were just hanging out when Turner started confessing that he shot a lady who had a daughter that's
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what moris said on the stand this alleged confession was notable because it happened before anyone had opened the
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door to Ruthie May's apartment or found her bullet riddled body that night Moore said she pressed Turner
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she testified that she asked Turner where this woman lived and did she have any kids he told her that she had a daughter
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but then as fast as he made the claim Turner backtracked and said that he wasn't
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serious in court Turner's attorney argued that he'd only made that claim to try to impress more and he says that he
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saw that it wouldn't impress her then he said no I didn't really shoot anybody and his testimony was that he really
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didn't shoot anybody he was just bragging but Turner hadn't just boasted Moore also said that hondras and Turner
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came back to her apartment and asked her to hide a black handgun she refused now if Turner was only joking
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about shooting a woman why did he need help hi a gun on top of that other Witnesses claimed they' seen both of the
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alleged accompli after the shooting the pair of them detectives talked to a couple of women who lived on the sixth
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floor of the same building who said that hress and Turner came to them with the TV and the rocking chair one of those
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women was Lynette Fitch Tim Brown's girlfriend Fitch said that hondras wanted them to
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stash the stolen items at her place she refused and she suggested that they try another woman who lived on the first
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floor of another Avid hrus and they ultimately took the TV and rocking chair to This Woman's
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apartment Hound's attorney was a man named Alan senx he admitted that his client did move the rocking chair to
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another apartment apartment but argued that hress was only offering Turner a helping hand in other words he was
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trying to say hress the excon might look like he was in charge but actually the high schooler was according to sencx and
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in an effort to take suspicion off his client sincox argued the obvious saying that any of the people who hung out in
00:13:51
the vacant apartment 1108 could have murdered ruie May McCoy including in his words quote some of those will
00:14:01
testify what he's basically suggesting here is that Tim Brown the state's star witness could be pointing the finger at
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hress and Turner to hide the identity of the real killer or Killers the police did not get a confession from anyone and
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so the prosecution was stuck with the statement of Tim Brown the prosecution needed Tim Brown to take the stand and
00:14:28
reiterate everything he said in his signed statement and he did not that's when the case against Turner
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and hondras fell apart it was Tim Brown's word against the accused and brown would no longer say they did it in
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fact he would make a damning allegation against the [Music] police prosecutors often say we don't
00:14:55
choose our Witnesses you know we have to go with what we got that's Steve again talking about Tim Brown he isn't the
00:15:02
kind of guy we choose as a witness but that doesn't mean he wasn't telling the [Music]
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truth Brown was 24 years old and a key witness for the prosecution 3 years before he would testify in court Brown
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had signed a six-page statement the state's attorney noted that it was taken in the dead of night at 4:00 a.m. on
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April 26th 1987 just four days after Ruthie May called 911 there were challenges to Brown's
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credibility as a witness Tim Brown had a couple of felony convictions which were
00:15:38
relatively minor as I recall I think they were possession of a controlled substance with intent to deliver but
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that's the kind of thing that's defense lawyers can make a lot of saying oh he's
00:15:51
a drug Peddler you can't trust him when prosecutors called him to the stand they
00:15:57
wanted him to share how Turner and and were in Ruthie May's apartment when he heard four shots and how the pair had
00:16:04
allegedly come back to the crime scene to collect the shell cases the statement that police and the State's Attorneys
00:16:12
had from Tim Brown was what's called a handri statement so at trial Tim Brown said I didn't really say that the police
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abused me uh they grabbed me between the legs Brown didn't only backtrack he denied giving the police the statement
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at all and accused them of forcing him into signing it it's clear that the case had fallen
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apart for the state when Tim Brown did that he claimed police threatened him and they said they might charge me as an
00:16:45
accomplice former detective Anthony Manina one of the investigators Brown was accusing blew off the idea that
00:16:52
brown was coerced he said it was common for a witness to backtrack and accuse the police of misconduct that was a
00:16:59
standard procedure you got jail house lawyers that they're constantly trying to get K people off of their cases the
00:17:07
assistant States Attorney who took Brown's statement was Linda wesan she testified at the time that no officers
00:17:15
were in the room when she wrote down Brown's statement and that brown had said he was treated well by officers
00:17:21
when we talked to her 30 years later she told us she didn't remember this case but she did say that it was common
00:17:28
practice for her to ask officers and detectives to leave the room when she took a witness's
00:17:34
testimony Brown's new story shifted the blame away from Turner the teenager he now said that Turner didn't
00:17:44
even go through the bathroom mirror it was hondras but the other guy was a guy named Bo remember Bo was another one of
00:17:52
the friends at the apartment next door to Ruthie Mays he was never arrested for this crime and brown said that when he
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heard the gunshot shots Turner was still in 11:08 sitting on the couch in the living
00:18:03
room Tim Brown and his friend Cy floi first told police they weren't even in apartment 1108 the one next to Ruthie
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Mays the night of the murder one of them said that they stayed at somebody's house and the other one said they stayed
00:18:19
in a motel afterwards and so detectives used the inconsistency when they reined Brown
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eventually Brown and floro admitted that they were actually in that apartment and
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that's when they got the statement that yeah I was there and yeah HR Turner did ones who went into the apartment former
00:18:40
detective Manina described having to repeatedly rein witnesses as part of the job he said it was rare for someone to
00:18:49
tell the truth the first time around we told him what he said the first time and
00:18:53
he'd make a different line so by the time he got through with three or four he didn't remember what he said you
00:18:59
wound up with the truth so Brown gave at least three different stories his first
00:19:06
story to detectives His official statement and now this new one that he was giving in court but let's talk about
00:19:14
that handwritten statement for a second Steve pointed out that when you hear the
00:19:17
phrase handwritten statement the Assumption might be that brown handw wrote the statement but actually the person being
00:19:28
question in Chicago at least is just writing his signature it's a state's attorney who with felony review who was
00:19:38
called to the station when detectives feel they have somebody solid ready to give a
00:19:43
statement so Tim Brown only signed the statement once the prosecution finished their line of questioning the defense
00:19:52
got their [Music] turn there wasn't a lot that the defense lawyers really had to do because it was
00:20:01
clear they had enough to impeach Brown I mean he was saying one thing at one point and another at another Point while
00:20:09
we were talking through the case on Zoom Steve turned in one of his stacks of papers and grabbed a write out of when
00:20:14
John hr's attorney Alan sincox cross-examined Tim Brown originally Brown claimed a different friend named
00:20:22
Bo was involved in removing the medicine cabinet attorney Alan syx said did you tell any of the police off officers that
00:20:29
Bo was one of the ones who did this and Tim Brown says yes sinok says you told them that Bo was
00:20:37
the person who came through that hole and may have committed this crime yes how many times did you tell them
00:20:44
that Tim Brown says I don't know it might have been just once they asked so many questions day after day that I
00:20:51
don't remember Brown took his denial a step further and claimed he didn't even know
00:20:56
Ruthie May McCoy in his statement he said he had told hress that an old lady named Miss May lived in 1109 but on the
00:21:05
stand he said that besides his girlfriend he didn't know the names of any of the women Steve read from his
00:21:11
reporting how Brown contradicted even the most fundamental claims he made in his
00:21:17
statement he said he had no idea you could break into apartments in the building via the medicine cabinets until
00:21:24
the KN McCoy was killed which contradicted what he had in his statement he said that the music they were
00:21:30
listening to that night wasn't loud at all because quote we got neighbors up there we give our neighbors our respect
00:21:37
it's not fair to him to say that he flipped for sure because we don't know exactly what he told police and State's
00:21:44
Attorney but none of Steve's reporting suggested the police actually abused Brown the detectives who were involved
00:21:51
in this case investigating this case and the State's Attorneys who took the statement did not have a reputation
00:21:59
for coing confessions I think that's an important factor in this case even though it was a handwritten statement it
00:22:06
was a little more trustworthy than some other hand statement the so you say the these detectives in this state's
00:22:11
attorney don't have a history of of doing that kind of thing right to my knowledge that's true in the majority of
00:22:17
murder cases I don't think detectives are physically abusing suspects I think there's a lot of trickery that goes
00:22:25
around goes on and there's a lot of lean on people so you know Tim Brown said they grabbed them between the legs and
00:22:34
you know could have happened but I doubt it again the assistant State's attorney
00:22:41
said no officers were in the room when she took the statement and while coercion may not have happened in this
00:22:48
case the Chicago PD during this time did have a notorious reputation for abuse and even torture of black men and women
00:22:56
the United Nations has repeatedly condemn the US and Chicago for not doing more to fix the problem he said that
00:23:03
they were threatening that he might be in accomplice they might charge him as an accomplice that's more believable to
00:23:10
me leaning on a suspect that way now we don't know why Tim Brown might have changed his story but the damage was
00:23:17
done the prosecution was stuck with the statement of Tim Brown so when he backed
00:23:25
off of that statement the case was gone the defense had questioned Tim Brown and
00:23:31
made their point but at least Turner's attorneys thought hearing directly from the accused could help their case so
00:23:40
they called Turner himself to the stand he saw that the door to her apartment was open and so he peaked in and he saw
00:23:49
Ruthie May's body I can understand that from a detective's point of view that you would hone in on
00:24:09
the two people who are mentioned regularly but of course that doesn't mean that they did it just because their
00:24:16
names kept coming up Steve watched the defense called Edward Turner to the stand where the young men would make his
00:24:22
own case during the trial Steve hadn't only gotten to know Willie McCoy he also met relatives of the two accused men
00:24:29
hress and Turner his mother Altha Turner said that they in one of the recesses when I talked with her she said there
00:24:36
have been so many lies they take a truth and they wrap it up in a lie then they take a lie and they wrap it up in a
00:24:42
truth my son wouldn't be here if it weren't so many lies they said they were taking him for questioning they kept him
00:24:50
three years for questioning he read straight from his reporting she said I know he did not kill anyone he wouldn't
00:24:57
do something like that I know he wouldn't because I whooped his ass when he was coming up his last ass whooping I
00:25:05
gave him he was 18 years old Turner used to get into a lot of fights in school when he was younger
00:25:12
that's how he got his nickname monifi it was a reference to Mona fiori which used
00:25:16
to be an alternative school in Chicago for kids who struggled with learning and discipline Altha Turner did not want to
00:25:22
record an interview but we talked to her for over an hour she said her son knew her neighbor Ruthie may she said he
00:25:30
wouldn't hurt her and that she didn't let her son run the streets like other teens in the project she was especially
00:25:37
strict with Edward she said during those years I didn't like him having any dealings with the young men's in this
00:25:44
area he was in church [Music] mostly as she argued her son's innocence Altha said Turner didn't easily give in
00:25:55
to peer pressure they would always threaten him to join gang but he never did let that bother him every time they
00:26:02
asked him what he was riding what gang he was with he'd tell them he was riding Jesus Christ and they didn't understand
00:26:08
that Turner's mom said that when he turned 18 she loosened up a bit when police contacted her in April 87 and
00:26:15
told her they wanted to question her son she thought they might want him for pedaling drugs his mom Altha didn't
00:26:23
think that he could be connected to a murder in fact the week this all was happening was normally a happier time
00:26:29
for their family both Altha and Edward Turner's birthdays were coming up it didn't come up at trial but I think it
00:26:36
was according to a witness that Turner said that he called his mom and said he was going to give her a color TV after
00:26:44
he had taken the TV from either Miss May's apartment or the hallway upside of it when they did call turn it to the
00:26:52
stand he admitted that he was in Ruthie May's apartment that night she was killed but he said that he did not pull
00:26:58
the trigger Turner later testifies that yes he took the TV that he saw was sitting outside of
00:27:09
apartment 1109 later that night sitting next to the prosecution table was a 19in
00:27:16
RCA TV and the rocking chair that belonged to Ruthie May on the stand Turner claimed that
00:27:25
when he saw a light on in 1108 from outside he went back up to the 11th floor when
00:27:31
he got there he saw someone named belder you haven't heard him mentioned yet anyway Turner now said he saw belder
00:27:40
leaving apartment 11:08 the one next to Ruthie Mays belder had the rocking chair
00:27:47
and asked Turner to grab the TV turner testified that's when he noticed the door to Ruthie May's
00:27:54
apartment was slightly open he kicked open the door took a few steps in and could see Ruthie May's body in the
00:28:03
bedroom she saw a woman's body Ling in the apartment and then he left with the TV and went downstairs this is
00:28:11
inconsistent with what the cops saw when they showed up at Ruthie ma there were no signs of forced entry and the door
00:28:17
was locked but that was turn of story he admitted that he didn't call for help Altha acknowledged her son looked
00:28:29
into the apartment saw Ruthie May lying there and did nothing and he hadn't reported it to the police it just taken
00:28:37
the TV so she said where I live at in the projects the rule is and she put a finger to her lips Altha then turned and
00:28:45
pointed at Willie McCoy sitting on a bench behind her he knows about that projects at that point McCoy nodded and
00:28:54
saides I know about them projects they would have probably hurt him Steve told me that Altha walked up the
00:29:00
aisle of the courtroom to the bench where Willie McCoy was sitting and put her hand on his shoulder she said my son
00:29:08
should have done something about her meaning Ruthie May if he seen her laying like that but I understand why he just
00:29:16
left with that TV he did what he had to do if I see somebody shoot you I cannot run and tell police because you see I
00:29:25
got to live there if they can't see that they should come living the projects like we do I feel satisfied now she went
00:29:32
on I wanted to know did my son have anything to do with the killing and now I know he didn't to this day Altha
00:29:41
Turner says her son was innocent just as she felt back then the question was would a jury
00:29:51
agree coming up in the final episode of Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror
00:29:58
[Music] murder from 48 hours this is Candyman the true story behind the bathroom
00:30:06
mirror murder I'm your host and co-executive producer domati Pungo Judy thagard is the executive
00:30:14
producer of 48 Hours Jamie Benson is the senior producer for Paramount audio and
00:30:20
morira walls is the senior story editor development by 48 Hours field producer Morgan KY recording assistance from
00:30:29
Marlon polycarp and Alan pay special thanks to Paramount podcast vice president Megan
00:30:35
Marcus Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder is produced by Sony Music Entertainment it was
00:30:42
reported written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are Katherine St Louis and Jonathan hirch
00:30:48
our associate producer is summer tamod theme and original music composed by Cedric Wilson he sound designed and
00:30:56
mixed the episodes with we also use music from APM fendle Fon is our fact Checker and
00:31:03
our production manager is Tama balance kassy we'll continue Ruthie May McCoy story next week until then leave a
00:31:12
rating or review of what you think so far and thanks for listening to this episode
00:31:20
[Music]