00:00:19
Deborah Atro was 30 years old. She was a young mother. I didn't get to have my mom growing up.
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>> My old pumpkin. >> It was this mystery that has never been solved. >> Rihanna.
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>> My name is Rihanna and I am referred to in the story as the baby, >> the eight-month old baby who lost her
00:00:51
mom. >> Yeah. >> Hi, love. So, you believe on November 29th, 1988, this was the last known location where
00:01:06
she probably came. >> Mhm. We believe that she drove alone on this very rural road. And that was the
00:01:13
last drive that she took alive. The car is found on December 1st. I knew she was strangled and she was
00:01:23
found in her trunk. There was just so much unknown. Who did this? Why did this happen?
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>> We focused pretty early on on Robert >> handsome >> like me. >> Bob Atrops was married to Debbie Atrops.
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They've been married for a year or so and they were struggling um having issues in their relationship which
00:01:47
caused them to separate. We continued to conduct additional interviews, follow up on various leads
00:01:57
and then it went dead. It was a tragedy. There were times when I wondered if we would ever make an
00:02:05
arrest. Finally getting answers nearly 35 years later as prosecutors say now 68-year-old
00:02:17
Robert Elmer Atrops is the person responsible for the November 1988 murder of his aranged wife Deborah Lee Atrops.
00:02:27
>> I was just in shock. I couldn't believe it. They 1,000% got it wrong. >> The motive evidence is very, very
00:02:35
strong. Debbie Atrops had a new romantic relationship with a man named John Pearson. They worked together. She was
00:02:42
excited about it, but she was very concerned about Robert Atrops finding out about her relationship with John
00:02:49
Pearson. >> The husband is often the obvious suspect. However, Debbie Atrops had a
00:02:55
complicated life and kept a lot of secrets. >> We view this as a case of actual innocence. There is more evidence that
00:03:02
suggests John Pearson was involved in Deborah Atrops's murder than there is Bob Atrops. They thoroughly interviewed
00:03:09
John Pearson. Things were good between him and Debbie Atrops. He had no motive to commit this crime. John Pearson did
00:03:17
have motive to kill Debbie Atrops. He said that in hindsight, he thinks that Debbie Atrops was only with him because
00:03:24
she was looking for somebody to pay the bills for her. That's plenty motive. >> Hello, Rihanna Lyn.
00:03:30
My dad did not do this. I know my dad. I know his heart. And I know that he'd never be able to live with himself doing
00:03:40
that. It was Thursday, December 1st, 1988, when Deborah Atrops, known as Debbie,
00:04:35
was found murdered in her car next to a construction site here in Beaverton, Oregon.
00:04:42
Debbie had been reported missing two days earlier by her estranged husband Bob Atrops who lived about 5 miles away
00:04:50
on this rural road. So where are we in relation to the Atrops case? Right here is Southwest Consulman Road in Sherwood.
00:04:59
And this is where Bob Atrops was living at the time of Debbie's murder. On the night she went missing, Bob says Debbie,
00:05:06
who was then 30 years old, never arrived to pick up their baby, Rihanna, as expected.
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>> I think that it's important for everyone to know that just because a case goes
00:05:17
unsolved doesn't mean that it's forgotten. >> Allison Brown is a senior deputy district attorney in Washington County,
00:05:24
Oregon. >> Here's our exhibit list. who along with attorney Chris Lumen joined a team of
00:05:30
investigators working on Debbie's unsolved murder. Brown says they hope talking to the original detectives,
00:05:37
witnesses, >> we've got videos, this is from the scene, >> and looking at the evidence again,
00:05:42
>> phone calls from 1988, >> might give the old investigation new momentum. >> There were opportunities for forensic
00:05:51
analysis that were not available uh in 1988. Debbie Atrops was last seen alive on Tuesday, November 29th, 1988. Bob
00:06:01
Atrops called the Tyiggard, Oregon police that night at 9:40 p.m. >> Who's the Tiger Police? Can I help you?
00:06:08
>> My wife uh was running about 3 hours overdue from a appointment. I was getting a little concerned live in
00:06:15
Sherwood. >> Okay. What's her name? Deborah. Hops. >> Okay. And what kind of vehicle would you
00:06:21
been driving? It'd >> be a black Honda. Bob told the dispatcher Debbie hadn't shown up after an appointment in
00:06:29
Tyiggard about 8 miles from his house at a hair salon called Rasmataz. >> It would probably be easier for you to
00:06:41
make a run down her path to you know how she would go than it would be for us. >> Bob says he drove the route and saw no
00:06:49
sign of Debbie. He called Tyiggard police back at 10:25 p.m. >> Well, we give it about another hour and
00:06:57
if you haven't heard anything to be called back >> Bob did call back a third time at 11:29
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p.m. >> Bobby Arops again. Have you heard anything? >> No. And the guys have gone out. It's
00:07:11
real foggy out, but they have checked around the area. >> Did you go to rest and see if her car
00:07:16
was there at all? But there's no car that was >> there was no friends or anything. She
00:07:20
might have gone on to >> check everyone think of >> But the one call Bob did not make that
00:07:27
night was to Debbie. >> Okay, sir. Um, we have checked around the uh Sherwood area and we can't find
00:07:34
her car at all. >> The dispatcher suggested Bob call the Washington County Sheriff, which he did
00:07:40
at 11:34 p.m. and they opened a missing person's case the next morning. But Debbie Atrops would not be a missing
00:07:51
person for long. >> Even though I've been retired for years, it still kind of hung over me.
00:07:58
>> Washington County Sheriff's Detective Michael O'Connell remembers responding to the scene when Debbiey's car was
00:08:04
found. The license plates had been taken off, the window was open, and the keys were inside. Okonnell's partner called
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Bob Atrops. >> You being the husband, >> we need permission. We'd like to search
00:08:20
the car. >> Okay. >> And like know if that'd be all right with you. >> Sure. >> A few minutes later, police found
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Debbie's body face down in the trunk. >> She was nicely dressed, still had her coat on, looked like she'd been placed
00:08:38
somewhat carefully in the trunk. Police say Debbie had been strangled, and there were no signs of sexual
00:08:46
assault. There was mud on her coat and shoes, the front passenger tire, and the steering wheel of the car. Law
00:08:56
enforcement scoured her vehicle for evidence. >> It looked like someone may have tried to
00:09:02
wipe down the hood. There were like broad clothing swipes, like someone maybe was trying to destroy
00:09:11
fingerprints. >> Okonnell and his partner went to Bob's house to tell him they had found his
00:09:16
wife's body. A witness who saw Bob later that day told the cold case team he was
00:09:23
very calm, much more calm than I would expect. >> It wasn't consistent with a grieving,
00:09:29
aranged husband. Debbiey's stepfather, Ed Holland, says her mother, Gloria, who was close to Debbie, was overwhelmed
00:09:37
with grief. >> She broke down and I held her. That's all I could do. She just laid there
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sobbing. >> Police searched outside Bob's home for any further clues. The driveway was a mix of mud, dirt, and
00:09:55
gravel, and it looked like her car may have driven through some of the mud. Bob had said Debbie was last there about a
00:10:03
week before her murder. Police took photos at the tire tracks outside his house and collected soil from his
00:10:10
driveway and lawn, >> just to make sure we weren't missing anything. >> Police never found any tire tracks that
00:10:18
match Debbie's car on Bob's property. Yet, Bob Atrops was an obvious suspect. But he wasn't the only man in Debbie's
00:10:27
life. Since she had moved out 5 months before, Debbie had been dating, and those relationships were complicated.
00:10:35
>> Debbie had very good taste and was a good judge of people, but a terrible judge of men. Every man that she seemed
00:10:42
to hook up with was a problem. So, you're always sort of by his side, right? >> Always.
00:11:05
>> It was great growing up with my dad. He was an amazing dad. >> From your little girl, did you get this?
00:11:12
>> Do you have memories of him being hands-on? Yeah, my dad was very hands-on. I knew that I was his number
00:11:19
one. >> Thank you for being the nicest daddy there could ever be. >> I remember being at my grandpa's house
00:11:28
with my cousin, going through old photo albums and finding a picture of this woman and I was like, "Who's that?" And
00:11:36
she just kind of was like, "That's your mom." From that point on, I always remember knowing the story.
00:11:44
Debbie Atrop's daughter, Rihanna Stevens, says she learned about her mother's murder when she was 6 or 7
00:11:50
years old. She says growing up, her dad only shared fond memories of her mom. >> I didn't know that they had separated.
00:11:59
Anything that I had ever heard about her was always good from him. >> But things were not always good in Bob
00:12:06
and Debbie's marriage. Debbiey's stepfather, Ed Holland, remembers meeting Bob, a construction product
00:12:12
salesman. and talking to Debbie's mother about how quickly Bob and Debbie walked
00:12:18
down the aisle. >> They were still in a courtship when they got married. I said to Gloria, I said,
00:12:24
"This is way too fast." She says, "Well, if they're in love, why not?" >> Debbie's friend, Darlene Lufkin, says
00:12:33
like Ed, she was not confident the relationship had a strong foundation. How long did they know each other?
00:12:40
>> Just a few months, it seems like. It takes time to get to know someone and I don't think she really knew Bob yet.
00:12:46
>> Bob and Debbie got married in June 1987 and adopted Rihanna the following March.
00:12:52
>> Hello Rihanna. >> Because of conflicts in their marriage just a few months after bringing Rihanna
00:13:00
home. Debbie moved into her own apartment in Salem 30 miles away from Bob. Investigators say Debbie had soon
00:13:08
reconnected with an old boyfriend, Jeff Reeberg. >> You said he was the one for her. Perhaps
00:13:14
>> that's the one she kept wanting to go back to. She really, really liked him, and I don't think he was just ready for
00:13:21
that kind of relationship yet. >> By September 1988, Debbie had a new boyfriend, a man she met at work named
00:13:29
John Pearson. John was separated from his wife and had two young boys. But I remember she was on the phone at my
00:13:36
house once with him. She handed me the phone and he said how much she was looking forward to meeting me and the
00:13:41
girls. When Debbie was uh seeing people, for some reason, she wanted them to meet
00:13:46
me and my girls. Darlene says she and Debbie had grown close in their 20s when Darlene was a single mom.
00:13:54
>> She's really the only friend I had that enjoyed spending time with my daughters
00:13:58
and I treasured that. In that autumn of 1988, although Debbie was dating John, she stayed in touch with Jeff Freeberg
00:14:07
and he loaned Debbie $8,000. He had lent her money to buy a car. Could there have been motive in that?
00:14:14
>> He was wealthy. Um, so I think he was happy to help Debbie. >> Back in 1988, detectives had asked
00:14:20
Freeberg for his alibi on the night Debbie was last seen alive. And he said he was home, except for going out
00:14:28
briefly to get some dinner. He seemed very straightforward, didn't hesitate to answer our questions,
00:14:37
didn't seem to be hiding anything. >> Police had also questioned John Pearson, who said he was with his children and
00:14:44
his aranged wife that night. Pearson knew about Debbie's hair appointment and gave detectives a detailed description
00:14:51
of many items inside her car. John Pearson told police back then that there was a Burger King bag as well as a box
00:15:00
with cranberries and a child car seat. Seems like a lot of details about the car.
00:15:05
>> Pearson also said there wasn't enough room in the trunk for a body and that stuff would have to be taken out. But
00:15:13
Detective Okonnell says Pearson had seemed truthful back in 1988. >> It was mostly accessible. didn't appear
00:15:21
to um be trying to throw us off or anything. >> And prosecutors Chris Luman and Allison
00:15:26
Brown say there is an innocent reason John Pearson knew so much about Debbie's car.
00:15:32
>> They were seeing each other every day. I mean, something to look into for for
00:15:35
sure, which is why they did multiple interviews of John Pearson and a polygraph in 1988. Um,
00:15:41
>> and did he pass the polygraph? >> He did. And he was willing to do it and basically do everything that they asked
00:15:48
him to do. Bob Atrops hired a lawyer a week after Debbie's body was found and declined to
00:15:55
take a polygraph. Detective Okonnell says Bob did not seem very worried about finding out who killed his wife.
00:16:03
>> He was kind of removed, just kind of distant. >> Okonnell and his partner looked into the
00:16:09
calls Bob said he made the night Debbie went missing. There was no friends or anything she might have gone to check
00:16:18
to think of. >> Bob told detectives he called the babysitter, Debbie's boss, and her
00:16:23
parents while he was home waiting for her. They all confirmed he did call them that night, but there was a hitch. Those
00:16:31
three calls were long distance and should have shown up on his phone bill. >> That was a problem. Those phone calls
00:16:38
were not there. By now, detectives suspected Bob had killed Debbie. They thought there was no
00:16:46
record of those three phone calls because Bob was out of the house that evening disposing of Debbiey's car and
00:16:52
her body. Police began looking for evidence Bob made those calls from somewhere else.
00:16:58
>> It involved checking payones. We looked at every angle. We struck out. They did
00:17:04
not find proof that Bob was lying or evidence connecting him to Debbie's murder.
00:17:10
>> I didn't like the thought of it just remaining unsolved. >> Okonnell and his partner had a final
00:17:17
meeting with Bob in 1990, asking him to account for those missing calls or to admit he had killed his
00:17:25
wife. But Bob maintained his innocence >> and then it kind of went went dead. >> When the Cold Case team next interviewed
00:17:35
Bob in 2022, they asked again about those phone calls and heard a very different story.
00:17:44
>> I'll be honest with you, uh, Bob, your story that you're telling us today is significantly different than what you
00:17:52
told investigators back in the day. And so my question is what really did happen.
00:18:21
>> We spent a lot of time together. We took the girls to the beach. >> Kick chick.
00:18:27
>> Went to music in the park with picnic dinners. >> It's been more than 30 years since
00:18:33
Darlene Lufkin last saw her friend Debbie Atrops, but she says she still feels the loss.
00:18:40
>> It sounds like you have really fond memories of Debbie. >> I miss her every day still.
00:18:46
>> Darlene, like many in Debbie's life, longed for answers. And in 2022, she got
00:18:52
one step closer when the cold case team sent Debbie's coat and those soil samples for testing.
00:18:59
>> The soil was sent to the FBI lab. The DNA was sent. >> While they waited, the cold case team
00:19:05
continued to examine Bob's behavior back in 1988, which prosecutors say was suspicious from that first call. He
00:19:14
calls law enforcement within, you know, probably 20 minutes of calling the friends and family. And to us that
00:19:21
seemed a a little quick. So, we believe he was attempting to get his story out there um and to portray himself as a
00:19:28
concerned husband and try to develop that narrative that he wanted to early on. >> Detective Okonnell says he had the same
00:19:36
feeling. Remember, Bob had called police four times that night. What's the Shakespeare quote? He protests too much.
00:19:46
It was interesting to us that he was calling so frequently and so soon. It didn't seem normal.
00:19:54
>> The Cold Case team also turned their attention to the road where Debbie's car
00:19:59
was found next to that construction site. Bob's former boss at Allied Building Products told them he believed
00:20:07
Bob had a connection there. he was selling roofing products. We knew I knew that he was selling products in that
00:20:14
area. >> In 2022, the results from those DNA tests came back. The lab said they found
00:20:21
a mixture of DNA on the collar and shoulder of Debbie's coat. >> They swapped that area of her coat
00:20:27
because if you're strangled, that would be the area you'd have contact with. >> The lab compared that sample from
00:20:34
Debbie's coat to her boyfriend at the time, John Pearson. is not present. >> And neither was her ex-boyfriend Jeff
00:20:42
Reeberg. >> Jeff Reeberg not present. >> But the lab said Bob Atrops could not be
00:20:48
excluded as a contributor to that DNA mixture. >> We can't say it's a match. It's just
00:20:53
it's moderate support that it's more likely Mr. Atrops than an unknown individual. Prosecutors admit while the
00:21:00
DNA from Debbie's coat excludes Freeberg and Pearson, it does not make a complete
00:21:06
case against Bob at Trops. >> I think it's another piece. There are many, many different pieces. It was very
00:21:13
fact intensive case. >> Another one of those pieces they say is the mud. >> This murder was connected to mud. Her
00:21:22
body was covered in mud. There was mud on the outside of the car, on the inside of the car. The FBI lab, which examined
00:21:28
this evidence, concluded that the mud on Debbie's car tire did not match the mud
00:21:34
where her car was found. However, that mud on the tire, they said, was indistinguishable from the mud from
00:21:41
Bob's lawn in color, composition, and texture. This is evidence prosecutors say that Bob was lying when he said
00:21:51
Debbie did not come to his house the night she went missing. According to the defendant's interview, she had not been
00:21:57
to his house for about 10 days. >> Bob Atrops hadn't spoken to police about the case since that final conversation
00:22:04
with detectives in 1990. But in 2022, he agreed to talk to the cold case team. >> It is October 19th, 2022. They were
00:22:17
thrown Bob a drops. Investigators asked Bob about those calls to friends and family that didn't appear on his phone
00:22:24
bill back in 1988. >> You made those phone calls from your house? >> Yes. >> Using your home phone with an MCI card?
00:22:33
>> No. >> Yes. >> No. >> Bob now said he had used an MCI calling card to make those missing long-d
00:22:40
distanceance calls from home. >> MCI card from Allied Building Products. That is not what you told investigators.
00:22:48
You said, "I made those calls from my home phone using my home long distance." >> But you dial in and you punch in the
00:22:56
code and then you can complete and you long distance. >> Prosecutors say Bob didn't have that MCI
00:23:02
calling card in 1988. And what's more, prosecutor Chris Lumen says this story doesn't make sense. In 1988, to make a
00:23:11
calling card, you had to input about a 16-digit calling card number and then another 6 or 8digit code. And if you're
00:23:20
frantically looking for your wife, why take the time to do that and enter all those numbers?
00:23:26
>> In 2023, prosecutors brought the case to a grand jury who voted to indict. I got a phone call on March 2nd of 2023
00:23:39
at 5:00 in the morning that my dad had just been arrested. I was just in shock. >> Rihanna says Bob is a loving dad and
00:23:48
doing grandfather to her three children. >> What was it like seeing your dad front
00:23:53
page story? >> It was awful to see the news making him out to be this terrible person that he just isn't. He
00:24:03
didn't do this. >> Cold case detectives spoke to Bob Atrops again after his arrest.
00:24:11
My opinion is you've told yourself a story for the last 34 years and you've told yourself the story over and over
00:24:18
and over again to the point that it's become the truth for you. It doesn't make it true, but it makes it easier for
00:24:25
you to tell that story. >> I don't believe that, but okay. >> What part don't you believe? Um, a story
00:24:32
that I created. I guess >> you don't believe that you created a story? >> No. >> Okay. You're just
00:24:41
are not in a position to acknowledge that you played a role in her death. >> No, I did not.
00:24:47
>> Bob Arops pleaded not guilty to Debbiey's murder. Attorney April Yates argues it's more likely Debbiey's killer
00:24:55
was her boyfriend at the time, John Pearson, than Bob. John Pearson not only had motive, he had opportunity.
00:25:04
He knew where Debbie Atrops was going to be. He knew about her hair appointment.
00:25:09
And also, he knew an incredible amount of detail about her car. >> But prosecutors say Pearson had nothing
00:25:17
to do with Debbie's murder. Back in 1988, he told police that about a week before the murder, Bob confronted Debbie
00:25:26
because he was suspicious she was in a new relationship. Pearson said Debbie was afraid if Bob found out it was true,
00:25:34
he would kill her. The prosecution planned to call Pearson as a witness in Bob atrop's upcoming trial.
00:25:42
>> We wanted to have him testify because we we found him credible, >> but that would never happen.
00:25:49
Pearson, who had been ill and had an outstanding warrant for a DUI in Oregon, stopped responding to detectives. When
00:25:57
authorities located him in Arizona, 5 days before opening arguments were to begin, John Pearson killed himself.
00:26:09
>> John Pearson fled the state. He was on the run. >> Attorney Janice Puracel was part of the
00:26:16
defense team. Police find him in a trailer in the desert in Arizona when police surround that trailer.
00:26:25
He ends his life rather than coming back to Oregon to answer questions about Debbie Atrop's murder. Those are the
00:26:32
facts. Prosecution can spin it all they want, but those are the facts. I'm trying to be strong for my dad.
00:26:56
In spring 2025, Robert Atrop's murder trial began here at the Washington County Courthouse. Prosecutors worried
00:27:04
the jury might get stuck on details they could not explain. In a case where we need to prove it
00:27:10
beyond a reasonable doubt, we're not going to be able to answer every single detail of what happened that night.
00:27:15
>> Remember, the appointment is supposed to end around 7:15. By 9:40 p.m., he's calling 911
00:27:22
>> at the trial, which allowed audio, but not video recording of witnesses. Attorney Allison Brown argues that Bobs
00:27:31
intentionally misled the police, starting with those four calls he made to them the night Debbie was last seen
00:27:38
alive. He didn't tell the law enforcement officials that they were separated, that they lived separately.
00:27:46
So, he didn't actually give them the information that they would need to find her. Bob didn't tell police Debbie lived
00:27:53
in Salem until the next day. Even more incriminating, prosecutors say, is the fact that Bob Atrops did not call Debbie
00:28:02
the night she went missing or ever. >> He never called her apartment. That would have been the first phone call,
00:28:08
right? Someone hasn't showed up. You're expecting them. You call them. Not only was that not the first phone call, but
00:28:15
he never made that phone call at all. >> When they asked about his >> at trial, prosecutors played Bob's
00:28:20
interview with investigators in 2022, where he explained why he didn't ever make that call.
00:28:28
>> Did you ever call Debbiey's place, >> her house? No, I didn't even consider that as an option. So, let me rephrase
00:28:35
and correct me if I'm right. You never considered calling the place she lives. >> Not when she was supposed to be in our
00:28:42
vicinity. No. >> Prosecutors also want the jury to hear more about the troubles in Bob and
00:28:47
Debbie's marriage. Debbie's friend Christy Knapp testified to an encounter with Bob at his house soon after Debbie
00:28:55
moved out. >> We went there to get some serving dishes. We walked into the entry and he just
00:29:05
started freaking out and screaming. He seemed really, really tall and really scary. It was terrifying.
00:29:14
>> Another friend, Tammy Nelson, told police in 1988 Debbie had confided in her that Bob Atrops had choked her in a
00:29:22
violent confrontation shortly before she moved out. Tammy told the jury Debbie was still worried about Bob after their
00:29:31
separation. >> What did she say she was concerned about? >> Well, she was concerned that he'd kill
00:29:36
her. I thought she was teasing to begin with. You know, she was being dramatic. >> And so, I turned around and I looked at
00:29:43
her and I saw that she was genuinely scared. Tammy had also told police in 1988 that a few months before her
00:29:52
murder, Debbie was worried about Bob finding out about her relationship with John Pearson. Tammy later told the cold
00:29:59
case team Debbie had said, "If anything happens to me, Bob did it." >> Debbie is predicting her own murder. She
00:30:07
is telling friends and family, um, if he finds out about this, he will kill me. >> And she was right.
00:30:15
But in their cross-examinations, the defense suggests these stories Debbie told are not reliable. And they say
00:30:22
Debbie had a history of making up false tales. >> She had told different stories to
00:30:29
different people, and these things were verifiably not true. >> Some of Debbie's friends say she did
00:30:35
tell questionable stories, often about her health. Darlene says she thought Debbie might have done it for attention.
00:30:42
One time she uh said that she went to work out, her stomach flipped or something and she had to go get
00:30:48
emergency help with it. It didn't seem real to me. And there's a very simple >> Attorney April Yates says there is a
00:30:55
simple explanation for why Bob's didn't call Debbie that night. He had spoken to
00:31:01
her stepfather, Ed Holland. >> Ed told Bob that he had been by Debbie's apartment and she wasn't home. There was
00:31:09
no reason for Bob to call. And the next morning, Debbiey's parents went to her apartment again, as did law enforcement.
00:31:17
So, there was no reason for Bob to call or go there. The fact that the state is trying to make something out of that,
00:31:24
it's a red herring. During trial, the babysitter and Debbie's stepfather testified that Bob had called them the
00:31:31
night Debbie went missing, which supports Bob's story. Attorney Stephanie Poland says the best explanation for why
00:31:38
those so-called missing calls weren't on his phone bill is that the billing equipment was faulty. We found the
00:31:46
engineer and he testified that this equipment failed all the time. But the cold case team believes Bob made those
00:31:53
calls while he was out of the house getting rid of evidence to help him create a false alibi. and they say it
00:32:00
was impossible to check every pay phone in the area back in 1988. >> What was significant is he's not where
00:32:07
he said he was. He's not at home. Why would he lie about where he was that night?
00:32:12
>> While the state emphasized the link between the mud on Debbie's tire and the soil from Bob atrop's front yard, the
00:32:20
defense says that this soil is everywhere in the region and is as common as dirt.
00:32:27
>> This soil is everywhere. my yard, her yard, the DA's yard. It doesn't make us
00:32:31
suspects in a murder. >> Back in 1988, police didn't collect mud from Jeff Freeberg's property or John
00:32:39
Pearson's. They only took samples from where Debbie's car was found and from Bob Atrop's driveway and lawn. Then
00:32:47
there is the matter of the DNA from Debbie's coat. >> The DNA in this case doesn't tell the
00:32:53
jury anything about who killed Debbie Atrops. Attorney Yates points out that the amount of DNA on Debbie's coat that
00:33:01
the lab had said could be consistent with Bob at Trops was minuscule. The equivalent of about six skin cells.
00:33:11
>> And this very low level of DNA is consistent with something called transfer DNA. People who have babies in
00:33:17
shared custody transfer DNA all the time. >> So in your opinion, this DNA was not
00:33:24
strong evidence. This DNA was not only not strong evidence, it doesn't mean anything.
00:33:30
>> The defense argues there is a much more important DNA result from Debbie's autopsy.
00:33:37
>> One of the very first items that the lab tested for DNA were vaginal swabs taken
00:33:43
from the autopsy. >> Attorney Janice Puracell specializes in evidence that can lead to wrongful
00:33:50
convictions. She says the DNA from Debbie's autopsy does not point to Bob at Trops.
00:33:57
>> The semen came from John Pearson and the likelihood ratio is 94.66. It's an enormous number.
00:34:08
>> And she points out Pearson's DNA at autopsy contradicts his statement to police from 2022. John Pearson told law
00:34:17
enforcement that he did not have sexual contact with Debbie Atrops in the 72 hours before she was murdered and
00:34:24
definitely not on the day that she was murdered. But they found that seaman 2 days later at the autopsy. Everything is
00:34:32
telling us that that was most likely deposited on the day that she was murdered. And the defense reminds the
00:34:39
jury John Pearson was avoiding the cold case team in the months leading up to his suicide.
00:34:46
In its closing statement, the defense says the state just doesn't have enough to make its case against Bob atrops. But
00:34:54
prosecutors argue all of the pieces point in one direction to Bob Atrops. >> Like you hear, motive means an
00:35:03
opportunity. He had it all. Now, after two weeks of testimony, it is time for the jury to decide.
00:35:11
>> We didn't know if that would be enough or not. It's incredibly uh nerve-wracking.
00:35:27
>> What did you think before the jury left to go deliberate? Did you feel confident?
00:35:33
>> I didn't feel confident. I just because of the fear of the unknown. I don't feel
00:35:39
like any evidence was actually given that proves my dad did this because he didn't. There is no evidence that he did
00:35:46
this. >> On April 17th, 2025, the jury reached a decision. >> It was 6 hours that they were
00:35:56
deliberating. We thought that that was a quick verdict and that could be a good thing.
00:36:01
>> My understanding the jury has a verdict in this case. Is that correct? Okay. >> To the charge of murder in the second
00:36:09
degree, the jury has found the defendant guilty. >> Guilty. 37 years after her death, Robert
00:36:16
Atrops was found guilty of murdering Debbie Atrops. It was like the room went dead silent
00:36:24
and everything was still in that moment. >> We all crumbled. We are grieving someone that is still
00:36:35
alive. >> Were you able to say anything to your father in that moment right after?
00:36:43
>> No. I >> hug him. Nothing. >> I haven't been able to hug my dad in over 2 years.
00:36:49
>> We had so many family and friends of Bob behind us. It was really hard for them
00:36:56
especially to see this happen to their loved one. Could see it's hard for you, too.
00:37:02
>> It is hard. It's hard to have an innocent client get convicted. >> Prosecutors say they're glad that
00:37:09
justice was served. >> This case took 37 years to finally be resolved. Are you satisfied that we know
00:37:17
the truth about what happened to Debbie Atrops? >> Yeah, absolutely. There's no other
00:37:21
people, no other suspects, no one else with the motive. We feel absolutely 100% sure that he's the one who committed
00:37:27
this crime. >> Prosecutors are confident the investigation proved the other men in
00:37:31
Debbie's life, including Jeff Freeberg, were not involved in her murder. Freeberg declined our request to comment
00:37:39
on the case. >> There just really wasn't any information that pointed in the direction of Jeff
00:37:44
Freeberg. He gave his DNA freely. There really just wasn't any motive evidence or anything else that caused him to be a
00:37:51
significant suspect. >> And they say John Pearson's suicide was an unrelated tragedy.
00:37:58
>> He had an open criminal case. I believe he he thought they were there to arrest
00:38:02
him for this misdemeanor warrant and and took his life. >> There was quite a bit of investigation
00:38:07
that was done by our detective after he committed suicide to to show it had nothing to do with a guilt for Debbie's
00:38:14
murder. When 48 Hours reached out in 2025, Pearson's lawyer declined to comment on the case. Prosecutors say
00:38:22
Pearson's family told them he had wanted to testify at Bob's trial. >> I thought that it would be important for
00:38:29
him to relay all the things he knew, including those statements that Debbie made back in 1988, that Bob's going to
00:38:35
kill me if he finds out about us. As for the defense's argument that Debbie had a
00:38:40
history of making up stories, prosecutors say this is unfortunately consistent with life inside an abusive
00:38:48
relationship. >> When someone's going through a domestic violence situation, they are in a way
00:38:54
living a lie. >> Bob's side of the courtroom was full. Did that strike you as as interesting?
00:39:00
>> It depends on the case. Yeah, I mean I think he he had a large support system
00:39:04
and it's not uncommon for people in a domestic abuse situation to to kind of go unknown as as an a DV abuser and I
00:39:14
think Bob was was good at that. I mean, he was a salesman. >> After all these years, Darlene Lufkin
00:39:22
says she thinks the jury got it right. >> I had my suspicions all along. >> You believed that that was the right
00:39:30
verdict. I do. I just feel that the question's been answered. Now, >> at her father's sentencing in July 2025,
00:39:40
Rihanna Stevens made an emotional appeal for leniency. >> When I was 8 months old, someone robbed
00:39:46
me of getting to have a life with my mom there to support my every milestone. 36 years later,
00:39:56
I'm being robbed of my father. the man that was there for all of those milestones.
00:40:07
I need him in my life. >> Attorney Poland read a letter from Bob's current wife, who has been married to
00:40:16
him since 2011. >> My husband has always been a devoted and loving father to his daughter.
00:40:23
Despite these appeals, the judge sentenced Robert Atrops to life in prison with the possibility of parole
00:40:31
after 25 years. When you lost your mom at a young age and you said now you grieve your dad who
00:40:39
is still alive, how do you make sense of what's happening? >> I can't make sense of what's happening.
00:40:46
I just have to live through it and keep fighting. She truly loved Rihanna. >> What do you want people to know about
00:40:59
your friend Debbie? >> That she didn't deserve this. She was a light that should still be here.
00:41:07
>> Do you think about your mother now? >> What do you think about her? I wonder what life would have been like.
00:41:16
>> My old pumpkin. Had I gotten to live my whole life, grow up having my mom Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your
00:42:08
host Ann Marie Green and joining me today is 48 hours correspondent Natalie Morales. We are going to discuss the
00:42:14
case of Deborah Atrops. Now back in 1988, the young mother was found strangled to death in the trunk of her
00:42:22
car in Oregon. For decades, her murder remained unsolved and it would take 37 years to bring her killer to justice.
00:42:31
Joining me now is Natalie. >> Hi Anorie. Good to be with you. >> Hey Natalie, it's always good to be with
00:42:36
you. Um, this is one of those hours that I just kind of went back and forth. I was so convinced that they, you know,
00:42:42
that they had the right suspect and they then they had the wrong suspect. I just
00:42:46
>> I was ping ponging. I think it even for me as I was reporting on this case, it
00:42:50
was I was very conflicted. Even our producers, we were conflicted. But this case was cold for over 30 years. So
00:42:58
really, it was all about figuring out what new evidence could be presented at trial. Uh, if you haven't listened to
00:43:04
the 48 hours episode yet, you can find the full audio version just below this episode in your podcast feed. Go take a
00:43:11
listen and then come on back for the conversation. Uh, Deborah or Debbie Atrops was last seen alive on Tuesday,
00:43:19
November 29th, 1988. Her husband, Bob Atrops, first reported her missing to Oregon police when he
00:43:26
said she never arrived to pick up their baby daughter, Rihanna, from Bob's house. Uh, so I should point out that
00:43:33
Bob and her they are estranged, right? So they have been separated. Um, but Bob calls the police like pretty quickly
00:43:42
after he felt that she should have been picking up their daughter. He tells them
00:43:46
that Debbie was running about 3 hours late from a hairdressing appointment. So to me, this was like the first
00:43:52
indication. Like very early on, I thought, "Oh yeah, he's the one." Because I just it just seemed like 3
00:43:58
hours was too soon to be calling the police. And at least in the portion of the 911 call that we heard, it's not
00:44:04
like he said, "I've been everywhere. I went to her apartment. I I called the hairdresser." Like, it just something
00:44:10
about the 911 call seemed off. Yeah. All valid points, Amarie, you know, and actually really wasn't even 3 hours
00:44:17
because her appointment ended at 7:15. She was expected back at Bob's house around 7:30, 8:00. So, he's calling
00:44:26
really less than 2 hours after that time frame. and police uh well, Detective Okonnell, I should say, who was one of
00:44:34
the uh initial people who was on this case, he he said that felt strange to him, too. It's sort of that
00:44:41
Shakespearean, you know, that quote, "Thou doth protest too much." And prosecutors believe those phone calls
00:44:48
were almost to try to um make police believe that uh he wasn't involved. Interesting. Now, he does say back in
00:44:57
1988, he tells police that he called other people. He says he called the babysitter, called uh Debbie's boss and
00:45:03
her parents from his home phone, but the problem with that is that it couldn't be
00:45:09
confirmed because there was no record of these phone calls on his home phone and
00:45:15
they were long distance. So, they they should have been a record someplace. >> Yeah. And I should remind people this is
00:45:21
1988. This is Oregon. So calling from one town to the other town, that could sometimes be a long-distance call. Bob
00:45:28
lived about 30 miles from where Debbie's parents lived. So all these phone calls
00:45:34
should have been recorded somewhere as long-distance calls on a phone bill. So it became a big part of the mystery was
00:45:41
where are these calls? Now, we know that he did place these calls because Debbie's parents did confirm and her
00:45:48
stepfather confirmed that they received the calls. the babysitter confirmed that
00:45:52
she received a call. So the question is where did he make the calls from? Investigators believe that Bob maybe
00:45:59
had, you know, committed the murder and was dis trying to get rid of the car and
00:46:05
dispose of Debbie's body and that's when he made those calls as he was out and about.
00:46:11
>> Were they looking for I don't know public telephone like telephone booth? >> They went around and looked at all the
00:46:16
public pay phones that they could find. They tried to get phone records off the payoneses. But that said, you can't go
00:46:24
around and trace and track every pay phone in the neighborhood. I should also say the one phone call that Bob didn't
00:46:32
make, which was very telling to investigators, was he didn't try to call Debbie's house. Now, remember, they're
00:46:39
estranged. So she has an apartment in Salem, Oregon, and he never even calls the apartment and never goes to the
00:46:48
apartment either to try to see if she ended up deciding to go straight home. So that was very telling to
00:46:55
investigators. Bob Atrops explained that away as saying, "Well, I had already called Debbie's parents and they said
00:47:05
she had not gone home." Okay, so you know, sadly Debbie is not a missing person for very long. Less than two days
00:47:13
later, police discovered her uh abandoned car near a construction site and then inside they discover Debbie's
00:47:20
body face down in the trunk of her car. She had been strangled, but no signs of sexual assault.
00:47:27
So, at this point, I would think the only person to look at would be Bob. Did Did police zero in on him as a suspect
00:47:35
right away? You know, obviously, as we have reported all too often, the partner or the spouse or in this case, the
00:47:42
aranged spouse is definitely the first person they consider and they look at. Um, and they did search outside Bob's
00:47:50
house. They in fact u checked his driveway, which was a gravel and muddy sort of driveway. They took pictures of
00:47:55
that driveway. They even took a mud sample of the driveway and the lawn as well because on the top of the car, the
00:48:03
hood of the car, it appeared there had been some mud evidence that had been wiped away on Debbie Atrop's body on her
00:48:10
coat. They found mud on her shoes. They were muddied as well. So, they were trying to match the sample of mud
00:48:17
specifically and also trying to verify the tire tracks. Now, they never could verify her tire tracks on his driveway.
00:48:26
A lot of people, a lot of friends were visiting in the time that he reported Debbie missing. Obviously, a lot of
00:48:31
people very concerned about Debbie. So, police were never able to definitively say whether or not Debbie had come back
00:48:39
to the house uh based on tire tracks. >> So, then let's talk about their relationship. We know they're strange,
00:48:47
but I mean, do we know anything about the nature of the relationship at the time that she goes missing?
00:48:51
>> She was living, as I said, in this whole other apartment. She was also involved
00:48:56
in an entirely new relationship with a man named John Pearson. Friends said that Debbie was very afraid of Bob
00:49:03
finding out that she was already dating this guy. John Pearson was somebody she worked with and Bob apparently knew her
00:49:11
boss. They were good friends, so it wouldn't be, you know, too crazy for him to find out. But um Debbie's friend uh
00:49:20
Tammy Nelson also said back in 1988 that Bob Adops had a temper that he had actually uh had choked her according to
00:49:28
Debbie shortly before she moved out. And you know she had even told friends if something happens to me Bob did it. Yeah
00:49:36
those are definitely some famous last words. Um, but she is dating this other person, John Pearson, which is what
00:49:44
started me when I was watching the hour, moving away from Bob as a suspect. Um, he was interviewed by police. He told
00:49:52
police that he had been uh with his aranged wife and children on the night of Debbie's disappearance. Um, but he
00:50:00
also gave a detailed description, a really detailed description of Debbie's car and what was in the trunk. And it
00:50:07
just I know I can't even tell you really what's in my trunk right now. So it just
00:50:13
seems like an odd amount of detail to remember, you know. >> Yeah. I mean, it was a very detailed
00:50:20
description of what was in the trunk. Um, you know, John told police even how could a body even fit in the trunk,
00:50:27
which kind of strange words to say. He thought the trunk was too small. And so I asked the prosecutors, Allison Brown
00:50:34
and Chris Lumen, about that. Take a listen. >> John Pearson told police back then that
00:50:39
there was a Burger King bag as well as a box with cranberries and a child's car seat. Seems like a lot of details about
00:50:47
the car. I mean, that's not details that I don't think my husband knows what's in
00:50:51
my car. That seems like somebody who's very intimately involved with knowing what's in the contents of that vehicle.
00:50:57
>> Well, and I think >> uh we knew that Mr. Pearson had been with her. I mean, he admitted that he'd
00:51:02
been with her. Um, they had been dating and and was in that car frequently. Um, and then I think his his surprise that
00:51:09
how could the body fit in the trunk? I mean, uh, as we we mentioned, it was delicately placed in there. It's not a
00:51:16
it is not a large trunk and and that had to have taken some effort to sort of get
00:51:22
Debbie's body in the trunk. >> Does it seem like an odd commentary, though? Yeah, I mean I think they asked
00:51:27
him specific questions about the car and its condition and they were seeing each
00:51:32
other every day. I mean not only were they in a romantic relationship, they both worked at Wellins, so they would
00:51:36
often have lunch together. Um I think they had lunch together the day prior and so um you know he would see he would
00:51:42
see her often. >> Detective Okonnell, who interviewed Pearson back in 1988, said that Pearson
00:51:48
was actually very forthcoming when when he was questioned. He agreed to many interviews, in fact, and that he even
00:51:55
took a polygraph. He passed the polygraph. So, Detective Okonnell felt like it wasn't like Pearson was trying
00:52:01
to hide anything at the time. >> Okay. And at the time, there's still some question marks about Bob, but
00:52:06
there's really no evidence connecting Bob or anyone else to Debbie's murder. So, the case goes cold, right?
00:52:13
Meanwhile, Bob continues to live life. He raises the couple's daughter, Rihanna. Um, she's in her late 30s right
00:52:20
now. you spoke to her. She describes him as a great dad. He's doing and attentive
00:52:26
and he's a fantastic grandfather to her three children. Um she does not believe that he had
00:52:33
anything to do with her mother's murder. Yeah. You know, it was it was heartbreaking speaking with her, of
00:52:38
course, because here's a a a young woman who never even knew her mother. She was
00:52:43
8 months old when her mother died. So, she feels that loss still very greatly in her life. And then now she said she
00:52:51
feels like she's lost the only person that she feels she could count on her entire life and that was her father who
00:52:58
raised her. And she does feel like he is 100% innocent. Well, decades after Debbie's murder,
00:53:08
detectives and prosecutors with the cold case unit start looking at Bob Atrops again. And we have seen this before,
00:53:16
Natalie. Sometimes it's the same evidence but with fresh eyes and they see things completely different. Fresh
00:53:23
eyes and new technology. I mean, keep in mind from 1988 now to, you know, 30 plus
00:53:29
years later how much DNA uh has changed things when it comes to cold cases. There was, you know, Debbie's coat with
00:53:37
that. They take a look at the DNA evidence and they were able to exclude John Pearson and Jeff Freeberg who was a
00:53:46
former ex but he was no longer romantically involved with Debbie. However, they couldn't definitively
00:53:52
exclude Bob Atrops. Now, the defense points out the amount of DNA that they had was the equivalent of perhaps six
00:54:02
skin cells, which is a minute amount. So, they said this is like the weakest bit of evidence that you could possibly
00:54:09
even have. Um, and they said as well, according to the defense, the fact that they shared custody of Rihanna, it's
00:54:17
expected that there would be some sort of crosscontamination with DNA. And remember those soil samples that I
00:54:23
talked about from the driveway and the evidence that was on the car. So, the FBI analyzed the mud that was found on
00:54:30
the tire of the car and also they looked at the soil that was taken from Bob at Traprops's lawn and they said that the
00:54:39
mud on the tire was indistinguishable from the mud from Bob's lawn in color, composition, and texture. So, that would
00:54:45
be a real compelling piece of evidence. In fact, there became this whole part of
00:54:49
the trial that was all about the soil evidence. They had soil experts testify. The defense said though when it comes
00:54:57
down to it, it's soil that is so common place in the Wamut Valley that they're like, "How could you definitively say
00:55:05
that it's Bob Atrops's lawn?" Yeah. And so then detectives do something really interesting like one of the holes in
00:55:13
Bob's story back then is about these phone calls, right? How come there's no record of these phone calls you say you
00:55:20
made? So, they rein him in 2022 and they ask him again about that night and the phone calls he made, but this time he's
00:55:28
got a different story that he didn't tell them the first time around. >> Right. So, so Bob is a salesman and so
00:55:34
at the time he was. So, his now he's telling detectives, you know, all these years later, well, those phone calls
00:55:43
weren't there because I used an MCI calling card to make those calls. And the prosecutors are like, "No, no, no.
00:55:52
That just doesn't add up." Because when you make a call using these calling cards, then you have to punch in this
00:55:57
code, this 16digit code. It just didn't sound like the act of a frantic husband who's calling 911, but then also is he
00:56:05
like sitting there punching in the code to to, you know, just try to make these calls. It it just didn't add up to the
00:56:11
prosecutors. >> Yeah, that it makes a lot of sense. The defense however presented somebody at
00:56:16
the trial who said that the equipment could have been faulty at the time and it didn't necessarily record all the
00:56:22
calls that came through in the area. Okay. Um but ultimately detectives do arrest him, right? He's arrested in
00:56:31
March of 2023 um for Debbie's murder. What about the other suspects though? Because I got to
00:56:37
tell you when I was watching Yes. Initially the phone call was it was troubled me but later on I thought well
00:56:46
what about John? I mean there are other people. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know Jeff Freeberg I
00:56:51
think Detective Okonnell they pretty much figured he was not a person of interest. Also back from the lab the DNA
00:56:58
evidence the mixture uh from the coat from from Debbie Atrops's coat excluded John Pearson. However, what was
00:57:06
interesting about John Pearson, he had apparently moved to Arizona and was living in a trailer when 5 days before
00:57:14
Bob's trial, two police officers show up outside the trailer, they are out there.
00:57:22
They're saying, "We're here. We want to talk to you." John Pearson looks out the
00:57:26
window, sees them, and then kills himself. See, for me, that was I I thought, "Wait a minute. Why would you
00:57:33
do that?" Right? What are you trying to hide? Right. According to the prosecution, he had a DUI apparently
00:57:38
that he was um wanted in court for. Take a listen. >> Um he had an open criminal case. I
00:57:46
believe he he thought they were there to arrest him for this misdemeanor warrant
00:57:50
and and took his life. >> The prosecution also noted his family said he wanted to testify against Bob at
00:57:56
Trops. We don't really know what was going on in his mind at the time, but investigators and the prosecutors truly
00:58:03
believe there is no evidence that points to John Pearson in this case. That all the evidence squarely pointed at Bob at
00:58:10
Trops. >> So when Bob is arrested though, his daughter Rihanna is completely blindsided.
00:58:16
>> Yeah. Rihanna, you know, she's just been so upset at the entire process. She said, you know, she got a call at 5:00
00:58:22
a.m. that morning telling her that her father, Bob Atrops, had been arrested. Beyond that, she says that at trial,
00:58:30
they kept calling her Rihanna instead of Rihanna, which is how her name is pronounced. She was never given a
00:58:36
victim's advocate, whereas Debbie's brother and stepfather had a victim's advocate at their side. Um, here's a
00:58:43
little bit more of what she had to say. The prosecution stood there in trial and
00:58:48
made me out to be the most important thing in my mom's life. I'm her baby, her daughter,
00:58:58
but the prosecution never treated me as such. >> Um, so I asked the prosecutors about
00:59:05
that. I I asked the point blank. I mean, how did they feel about how they treated
00:59:10
her? And here's what they had to say. And and during the trial, Rihanna told us that she was not contacted by a
00:59:16
victim's advocate from your office. Um even though here it is, it's her mother who was murdered. Um
00:59:22
>> why not? >> We have the indication that she didn't want to have any contact with us. Um
00:59:28
that she was on the defendant's side um and that wasn't interested in in being part of our case or having contact with
00:59:35
the prosecution. That was my understanding. She also said that she was not informed
00:59:41
ahead of time when the autopsy photos were going to be shown in court on the day during the trial. Um, meanwhile, you
00:59:50
know, Debbie's brother had been informed ahead of time and he left the courtroom
00:59:53
because he knew it would be too hard to see. What do you say to that? >> Yeah, I mean, I I can't imagine how that
01:00:00
would feel. Um, again, her not having contact with our office, we it's difficult for us to sort of alert
01:00:07
everybody in the courtroom, here's what we're about to do. And certainly that was not intentional.
01:00:12
>> Yeah. You know, sometimes it's the nature of the system that, you know, if you're not a defendant and you're not a
01:00:19
witness, then it's like you don't have a role, >> right? And that's that's how she feels.
01:00:25
she feels that she got lost in the process, but also that they excluded her because they knew she was on her
01:00:34
father's side and she was going to defend him all the way. So then what sort of evidence did the prosecution
01:00:41
have? What sort of evidence did they present that connected Bob to this crime? Perhaps the most compelling part
01:00:48
of evidence, according to the prosecution, was the alleged pattern of domestic abuse in their relationship.
01:00:55
Debbie's mother had told police at the time of the murder that Bob at Chrops was verbally, physically abusive, and
01:01:01
very controlling, that she immediately suspected that Bob was the killer. And as we mentioned earlier, her friend
01:01:07
Tammy Nelson testified that Debbie told Tammy that he had choked her before. I mean, that right there is is is
01:01:16
evidence. Um Tammy also told the defense team that Debbie told her that um she was scared of Bob, especially when they
01:01:25
had to hand off Rihanna. That's when those moments, those confrontations could happen. And that's exactly what
01:01:31
prosecutors believe is what happened. When Debbie went to the house that night, he had found out about her
01:01:38
relationship with John Pearson. And that set it up for that night for this confrontation and and and for him to
01:01:46
then in a fit of rage um strangle Debbie Atrops. >> Um the defense argued, however, that
01:01:54
Debbiey's stories were unreliable. We hear this version of Bob, but at trial, there were a lot of people that
01:02:02
were there supporting him, not just his daughter. Yes, he had a lot of support, including
01:02:08
his fourth wife uh was there. He's, you know, been married since 2011. He did have two other marriages and divorces
01:02:17
after Debbie's murder. Um so, you know, but as Chris Luman, the uh assistant prosecutor, said that he can be charming
01:02:25
and he he knows how to get his way and how to have people, you know, believe him.
01:02:31
So ultimately though, the jury does find him guilty of murdering Debbie Atrops. The defense was rather emotional and you
01:02:40
don't see that very often. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, uh, defense attorney April Yates uh was very emotional. She said
01:02:47
that Bob at Trops is is in an innocent person who has been convicted. Of course, Rihanna is now a victim twice
01:02:56
over. That's the way she feels. She mentioned that to you. uh she never got to know her mother and now she's also
01:03:02
lost her father and she gave a really powerful statement at his sentencing. I'm curious about the reaction um when
01:03:08
she read that statement. It was it was a moment that I felt was very very telling. You know, Rihanna is there.
01:03:14
She's pleading with the judge to you know spare her father to to be more lenient in the sentencing telling the
01:03:21
judge that she and her three kids they need their father and grandfather. Um Bob at that point he hardly ever looks
01:03:30
in her direction and and hardly ever looks up from the table. Now the question is is he so racked with guilt
01:03:37
or is this somebody you know who's just being stoic and having to deal with you know this verdict and now the
01:03:43
sentencing. It's hard to say how you would interpret it. I think it's up to the viewers's interpretation here. But
01:03:49
as a parent, if that was my child saying, "I need my parent." I just can't imagine not being emotional in that
01:03:57
moment. >> Absolutely. Bob Hops received a life sentence with the possibility of parole
01:04:03
after 25 years. If he is to be released, he would be 93 years old at the time. How is Rihanna grappling with this?
01:04:12
>> She says she's trying to be strong and she's trying to keep up the fight, but
01:04:16
she's very upset. And and really at the heart of all of this, this is truly a a tragic love story. It's so clear when
01:04:22
you see from the very first frames of the home video, you know, after adopting Rihanna, how much Debbie Atrops bonded
01:04:30
with that baby. That love just screams through the screen and you can't help but think all that was lost. And Rihanna
01:04:38
says she feels that loss every day. And now, of course, she's dealing with having, you know, to to lose her father
01:04:44
in the process as well. Yeah. >> So, it's it's a tragic story all around. >> Absolutely. Decades waiting for some
01:04:51
sort of justice and then there are other people involved who think there's no justice at all. But ultimately, my heart
01:04:58
breaks for Rihanna and everything that she has lost. >> Yes. I mean, she's she's a strong person
01:05:03
and you know, fortunately, she has a lot of people who are supporting her through
01:05:08
this. >> Yeah. That's that's good to hear. That's good to hear. Thank you so much,
01:05:11
Natalie. >> Thank you. And if you like this episode, please rate and review us on Apple
01:05:17
Podcast or Spotify.