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[Music] Are you pleading guilty because you are guilty? >> Yes. What a moment. A guilty plea 962
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days in the making in the murder case that horrified the country. Brian Coberger pleaded guilty to the murders
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of four University of Idaho students as their anguished loved ones looked on in a packed courtroom in Boise, Idaho. He
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did not react with emotion as he communicated with the judge. >> As to count two, murder in the first
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degree as it relates to uh the murder of Madison Mogan, how do you plead guilty or not guilty?
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>> Guilty. >> As to count three, as it relates to murder in the first degree for the
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murder of Kaylee Gonzalez, how do you plead guilty or not guilty? >> Guilty. As to count four, the uh
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first-degree murder of Xanna Kernal Kernodal, pardon me, uh a human being, how do you plead? Guilty or not guilty?
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>> Guilty. >> As to count five, uh first-degree murder of Ethan Chapen, a human being, how do
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you plead? Guilty or not guilty? >> Guilty. >> This is what these four families of the
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victims had been longing to hear. An admission of guilt that Coberger had attacked their loved ones in their
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off-campus home in Moscow, Idaho. But family members were divided over whether justice was being fully served. Some
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wanted him tried, convicted, and sentenced to death. Coberger, who had been a PhD candidate studying
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criminology at nearby Washington State University, was arrested on December 30th, 2022.
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We've spent the last 2 and 1/2 years awaiting a trial for these monstrous crimes in hopes of finally understanding
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the full story of what happened that night and why? What was the motive? Who was Coberger's main target? How did he
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seem to know exactly where to go once inside that house? I'm Peter Vans. I've been covering this case for 48 hours
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since the beginning. I attended nearby Washington State University. I knew Moscow, Idaho to the
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point where I could just drive about anywhere without using a map. These murders really hit home for me. Here at
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48 hours, we were preparing to take you through the trial week by week, but then
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news broke on Monday evening that a plea deal had been struck. and Brian Coberger
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would admit in open court that he was the killer. So joining me today to review these
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developments is CBS News legal analyst attorney Mary Fuljaniti. Mary, thanks for helping us sort all this out.
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>> Thanks for having me, Peter. And Mary, just starting at the beginning of today's hearing, I was struck by Judge
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Steven Hipler's introduction about outside pressure he was facing as it pertains to this plea deal.
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>> Court is not supposed to and this court will never take into account public sentiment
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uh in uh making an opinion regarding uh its judicial decisions in cases. Court should and I always will make
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decisions based on where the facts and the law lead me. Period. I have not read any of the numerous messages nor listen
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to any of the numerous voicemails that have been sent to me and my staff. Those have all been forward to security and
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where appropriate to law enforcement. >> And there's so much emotion in this case. Mary, what was your reaction to
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what the judge had to say? Well, you know, Peter, this case has captured the nation and the world
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really, and I think the judge is sending a clear message to the public that all the calls in the world are not going to
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impact his decision in this case, and that he's going to rely strictly on the facts and the evidence and to stop. You
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know, it's inappropriate. It's time consuming, and it's it's it's taxing on the people that are working in the
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courthouse. For the millions of people who have been following this case, all the attention was of course on the plea
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deal itself. A plea deal that surprised all of us. Talk about what this agreement entails.
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So the defendant pleaded guilty to all five counts included in the indictment, which were the felony burglary count and
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four first-degree murder counts. Uh and with regard to the homicides, all four of them, it was life, a fixed life
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sentence, which is life without the possibility to parole with all five counts to run consecutive to each other.
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In addition, the defendant waved his right to not only a jury trial, but to appeal his sentence and to even have the
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court consider any leniency in his sentence at the time of sentencing. Uh so it it was interesting because I think
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a lot of people didn't understand is the court bound by this and and what the court basically said is this is not a
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binding plea agreement which means he is not bound by the plea agreement and that
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he could impose a different sentence a lawful sentence obviously at the hearing when it comes up. Uh but I think that's
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probably unlikely in this case that he's going to stick with what the parties have agreed to uh which has taken a long
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time to get to. >> This plea deal seemed to come out of the blue. We were all prepared for a long
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trial. Why do you think the defense approached prosecutors about making a deal? >> Oh, to save his life, to take the death
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penalty off the table. And remember, accepting a plea deal is ultimately not the decision of the defense lawyers, but
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rather the defendant. And sometimes it's hard to get to that place until all legal arguments and strategies are
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thoroughly exhausted. And for all of us who've lived with this case, the prosecution today stood up and basically
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what seemed like almost an opening statement laid out what the prosecution's case was. Here's
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prosecutor Bill Thompson. Back in March of 2022, when the defendant was residing
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at his parents' residence or was residing back in Pennsylvania, his home state, he purchased online a KBAR knife
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and sheath with an Amazon gift card that he had purchased shortly prior to the purchase of the knife, sheath, and
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sharpener. Jumping ahead, the end of June of that year, uh the defendant, Mr. Coberger moved from Pennsylvania to
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Pullman, Washington, which is right across the state line from Moscow, Idaho, for the purpose of pursuing a PhD
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in criminal justice at Washington State University. The state's evidence would indicate that
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beginning July 9th of 2022, Mr. Cobberger's phone began connecting to a cell tower that serves the area of
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the 1122 King Road residence in Moscow, Idaho. Now, I I will acknowledge for the
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court and all present that there are many residences in that area. It's a dense population of mostly college
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related uh occupants. Between July 9th of 2022 and in November 7th, the defendant's phone connected to
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that particular tower during late night, early morning hours, 10:00 p.m. to 4:00
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a.m. on approximately 23 times. And then Thompson described what transpired in the early morning hours of November
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13th, 2022. According to the state's evidence, Coberger's phone left his Pullman
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residence and was turned off at 2:54 a.m. and remained off until 4:48 a.m. They also obtained video surveillance on
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the highway that runs between Pullman, Washington, and Moscow, Idaho, that showed a vehicle matching Coberger's car
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entering Moscow at 3:02 a.m. and circling the neighborhood. And at 4:05 a.m., surveillance video showed
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Coberger's car parked behind the 1122 Kings Road home. The state believes that its evidence would then show that um the
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defendant entered the residence of 11:22 through the kitchen sliding door on the
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back side of the residence, which is the side of the residence that would uh face
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the area above where the defendant's car was parked. defendant entered the residence, went to
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the third floor, and with a knife killed Madison Mogan and Caitlyn Gonzalez. The defendant, as he left that room, for
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whatever reason, ended up leaving or the sheath for a KBAR knife was left on the bed next to
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Madison Min's body. And I can jump ahead. That sheath was tested by the Idaho State Police Forensic Lab and
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single source male DNA was found on the snap of that sheath as well as blood from both Kaye and Madison and other
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trace evidence. But it's important to note single source male DNA was on the snap of that cheek.
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The state's evidence would show that Zana Kenodal was still awake at this time. In fact, had taken a Door Dash
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order not long before this started. Her room was not on the third floor. It was on the second floor on the west side.
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As the defendant was either coming down the stairs or leaving, he encountered Zana and he ended up
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killing her also with a large knife. Ethan Chapen, Zanna's boyfriend, was asleep in their bedroom, in her bedroom,
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and the defendant killed him as well with a large fixed bag. Each victim suffered multiple wounds. I will state
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for the record that there is no evidence there was any sexual component or sexual
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assault on any of the victims. I want to make that clear so there's no speculation.
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There were two other roommates in the house and they were already asleep. During the course of this, one of those
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roommates arro awoke, looked out her door, not knowing what was going on, and saw the defendant who was dressed in
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black with a black belt cob on, holding some sort of container in his hand. And she saw him leave the house through the
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direction of the kitchen where that sliding door is that I mentioned before. At approximately 4:20 that morning,
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so this would have been 15 minutes or so later, Finn's car is seen on a surveillance
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camera for 1112 King Road, which is immediately next door to the west of 11:22, leaving the area at a high rate of
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speed. And if the court were to see that or anybody in this courtroom were to see
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that, you can see the court the car almost loses control as it makes the corner, heads north, and then turns to
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go south on Wenta, which is one of the only ways to get out of that part of town.
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The evidence would show that following that, the defendant in his Elantra drove south of Moscow. We know that he
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drove on the back roads because there are surveillance cameras on the main highways, Highway 95, that would have
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picked up the defendant's car if he'd gone that route and they did not show the defendants's car on that route
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during the time. So, we know that he went through a variety of back roads and very rural isolated part of Lake County.
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About 4:48 that morning, the defendant's phone comes back on and the evidence will show that that
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phone was located south of Moscow, likely at a side road intersection with uh Highway 95. From there, the
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defendant's phone activity tracks heading back north towards Pullman, Washington, where the defendant lived.
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about 5:26, starting approximately 5:26, various surveillance cameras in Pullman,
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Washington, pick up the defendant's vehicle as he enters Pullman from the south and heads north and slightly west
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towards his apartment where he arrived at approximately 5:30 in the morning. Later that morning, this still this uh
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Sunday, the 13th of November of 2022, Mr. Cobberg's phone returned to the area of King Road. We don't know exactly what
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he did, but it returned to that area. It's about 9:00 in the morning, was there for about 10 minutes, and then
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returned to his Pullman residence about 9:30 that states evidence will show evidence
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taken from the defendant's phone that he took a selfie of himself on his phone in
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what appears to be the bathroom of his Pullman apartment with a thumbs up. So, we know there was a lot of evidence,
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but we didn't hear anything about motive, Mary. What about that? >> I know the big question that everybody
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wants to to understand in this case. Um, we didn't hear anything about motive. Motive is not an element of the crime.
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Uh, and I'm not so sure that the prosecution actually knows at this point even what the motive was. And sometimes
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in cases like these in particular where the murders are so gruesome and heinous uh you don't have any sort of black and
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white explanation. Uh so I think that's why we probably didn't hear anything along those lines because either they
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didn't know it or they felt that it wasn't uh it might be confusing to the factual basis because it's not
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necessary. >> And by the way I had a brief conversation by text message with Christy Gonzalez Kayle's mother
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yesterday. in it. She told me that the family asked the prosecutor if they were asking Coberger for more evidence,
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including the location of the murder weapon as part of the deal. And according to Christy, the prosecutor
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said no. This raises the prospect that families may never know exactly what happened. Imagine living with that for
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the rest of your life. Yeah, that's actually, you know, there are so many elements to a case that
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sometimes, you know, people will never know. So, it it's hard and I know it's um it's consuming for many of them
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because they want the picture filled in so they can fully understand what happened and hopefully put closure and
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get some closure out of the case, but that that doesn't always happen. And even if it went to trial, they wouldn't
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necessarily have had that closure as well. So unfortunately um in cases like these uh you you need to focus on the
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evidence and what the evidence is and and stick with that when it comes to the resolution.
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>> But even without a motive, why not take this to trial? >> Uh the reason why the prosecution at
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this late date uh I think decided to discuss a plea was because the defense reached out to them. I mean, after all
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the hearings and the motions and the judge finally denied the continuence, uh, the defense reached out to the to
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the prosecution and asked if there was a plea deal, and they would be remissed in
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not really going through that with them. And anything can go wrong. I mean, you can have witnesses go sideways. You can
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have a juror do something that could cause a mistrial and then restart the whole process again. So, they have to
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evaluate everything. and in this situation and here is the defendant willing to plead to everything to all
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the facts to everything that's included in the indictment and I think they took all that into consideration and decided
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that this was the most appropriate and just thing to do in the circumstances and we've seen a divide among families
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of the victims. Some are relieved while others are outraged, feeling betrayed by
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the prosecution for taking this deal. The Chapens said that they were attending the hearing in support of the
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plea deal and the Mogan's family attorney read a statement on their behalf today also supporting the plea
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deal. >> We support the plea agreement 100%. While we know there are some who do not
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support it, we ask that they respect our belief that this is the best outcome possible for the victims, their
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families, and the state of Idaho. We extend our deep gratitude to the many law enforcement officers and staff who
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work tirelessly to obtain the critical evidence that brought justice today. >> This is something where they want to put
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it away. And this is a guarantee. There's no more risk of all that's going to save them a lot of pain and anguish.
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On the other side, the Gonzalez family issued a statement saying they are beyond furious at the state of Idaho.
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They said the state failed us, calling it a deal with the devil. Kay's father, Steve Gonzaleves, refused to go inside
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the courtroom today, but spoke outside to the media before the hearing. He blasted prosecutor Bill Thompson for
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negotiating a plea deal. He only negotiated with the murder of our children. That was the only person that
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he negotiated with. He didn't give us the call and courtesy to negotiate with us, even pretend. He could have just
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pretended and then lied. But he didn't even pretend. He basically said, "Your guys' input isn't needed."
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>> The judge could hear one thought from you that he should remember. What is it?
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>> He's going to own this. He's going to inherit what Thompson did and he's the only one that can fix it. He's the only
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one who can make it right. >> I know it's an emotional one for some of the victim's families, but it's a call
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that is solely within the prosecutor's discretion, weighing not only the victim's interest, but the states and
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the time, the money, and the consumption of this case on the court's resources. >> And there's another reason Kaylee
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Gonzalez's parents have expressed outrage. This deal took the death penalty off the table. They wrote on
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social media that the death penalty is merely an illusion in the criminal justice system. When available, it
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serves as a bargaining tool for the state. A new law in Idaho will go into effect on July 1st, 2026 that will make
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death by firing squad the state's primary method of execution. When I spoke to the Gonzalez family over
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two years ago, they had very strong opinions about that should he be found guilty of the murders.
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>> Oh, firing squad. Absolutely. I think lethal injection is way too easy. I mean, I've read about it
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and it's it's evidently very torturous, but I'm like, yeah, no, I'm not buying it. Evidently, if you feel like you're
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drowning and whatnot, I don't know. I mean, yeah, but I think that a firing squad would be pretty terrifying, but
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nowhere near as terrifying as what our girls went through. >> They are understandably very angry and upset and
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want the defendant to pay the ultimate price here. And I know the Gonzalez's wish that since the prosecution had all
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the leverage in this negotiation that they had that they had included a stipulation that Coberger tell every
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detail about how this crime was committed, how he planned, how he carried it out, that he would have to
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tell that story before he could get the plea deal. And that breaks their heart that that was not a part of this.
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>> Yeah. And no one can compel that. The court can't compel that. The prosecution
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can't compel that. I mean, what we do know is that the judge found that there was sufficient facts and evidence to
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accept his guilty plea to each of the five counts. >> So, after all this, what happens next?
00:20:02
Is this case finally over? >> Not yet. Sentencing is scheduled for July 23rd and we expect on that day the
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families will be able to have their day in court. they will be able to address the court and give victim what they call
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victim impact statements about the pain and the anguish and the and the torture basically that they have gone through as
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a family. Uh and I expect that that'll last the whole day and it's going to be a very emotional day. It's one that you
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hope gives some closure and some peace to the families. And it's one that I I I suspect there won't be a dry eye in the
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house. >> And these will be very powerful statements for people like the Gonzalez
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family. They finally get to say in a room where they know Brian Coberger can hear them what they think about all of
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this and they are devastated. So that will be that will be a compelling day and we will continue to provide updates
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on this case. Thanks Mary for joining us. >> Thank you Peter >> and thanks to all of you for listening.
00:21:09
I'm Peter Vansat. This episode contains graphic audio and references to violence. Please listen
00:21:21
with care. He is a hollow vessel, something less than human. A body without empathy, without remorse.
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He chose destruction. He chose evil. He feels nothing. For the first time, Dylan Mortonson, one
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of the two surviving roommates in the house on King Road, courageously spoke in court about her grief and trauma as
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the murderer of her friends, sat facing forward with no emotion. >> He tried to take everything from me, my
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friends, my safety, my identity, my future. He took their lives, but I will continue
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trying to be like them to make them proud. On Wednesday, a shackled Brian Coberger,
00:22:18
who admitted earlier this month to the mass murder of University of Idaho students Kaylee Gonzalez, Madison Mogan,
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Zana Kernodal, and Ethan Chapen was forced to hear the cries, the anguish, the frustrations, and the righteous
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anger of the loved ones left behind at his sentencing hearing in Boise. Today we are here to prove to the world that
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you picked the wrong families. >> Instead, I will call you what you are. Sociopath, psychopath,
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murderer. >> We are done being victims. We are taking back our lives. >> I'm 48 hours correspondent Peter Vans
00:23:02
and this is the Idaho student murders inside the Brian Coberger case. Today you're going to hear what happened
00:23:11
inside the courtroom. And joining me to discuss it all is CBS News legal analyst, attorney Mary Fuljiniti, and
00:23:20
Washington State University Muro School of Journalism Professor Matt Loveless. And Matt, you live in Pullman, just a
00:23:30
stones throw down the road from Moscow. You're the one that went over to that house on King Road after you learned of
00:23:36
these murders. You saw that that tragic sight of some blood seeping down the outside of the building which gave us
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all a sense of what was going on on the inside. Give me a sense of what this day
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was like for you. >> It was an emotional day, Peter. And as this case has gone on for close to a
00:23:55
thousand days now, I hesitate to call it closure, but it was nice as a community
00:24:02
member just to hear the families be able to speak and release a little bit today.
00:24:07
And I think we'll get to the fact that they released quite a bit today. So, it did feel like a little bit of closure
00:24:13
and also it felt incomplete. I know we'll talk about that as well. For the victim's families and surviving
00:24:19
roommates, they had been expected to give impact statements after a trial when their words would influence the
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sentencing, but that trial never came to be. >> Yeah. No, it didn't. I mean, Brian
00:24:30
Coberger ended up signing a plea agreement and on July 2nd in court admitted his guilt to each charge in the
00:24:37
indictment. And part of that agreement and part of those admissions included him agreeing to fixed terms, fixed life
00:24:44
sentences for each of the four murder counts as well as a 10-year count for the felony burglary, all to run
00:24:51
consecutively. Uh, and in addition, he waved all rights to appeal. And for all of us who have watched this from the
00:24:58
beginning, to see all those loved ones in that room and be able to look at the man across the way who was so stoic,
00:25:05
emotionless, lacking remorse sitting there, the man who had wielded that knife and and and and created all this
00:25:13
pain was just extraordinary, wasn't it? >> Yeah. Watching him was was eerie to be
00:25:18
perfectly honest. I think the one thing to me that stood out out of all the tears and emotion was that Brian
00:25:23
Cobberger did not shed a tear. He did not show any emotion. >> Even the judge was wiping away tears
00:25:29
throughout. And for me, in the dozens and dozens of court cases I've been involved with, I'd never seen that
00:25:36
before, Mary. What about you? >> Yeah, you know, I've never seen a judge shed a tear in a case. The prosecutor
00:25:42
was tearing up. The the judge was tearing up. We had the victims. We had the family members. I was even tearing
00:25:48
up throughout much of it because you sit there and you hear how heinous and horrific the crimes were. And as a
00:25:54
mother to a daughter who's in college at a sorority, it just it hits home. >> In addition to Dylan Mortonson, we heard
00:26:01
from her fellow surviving roommate Bethany Funk. Good friend Emily Alant read Bethy's words inside a packed
00:26:10
courtroom. >> For some reason, I am still here and I got to live. I still think about this
00:26:15
every day. Why me? Why did I get to live and not them? >> People always ask that, the survivors.
00:26:23
Matt, what do you think? >> It's still hard to explain. You know, we know Bethany had a basement room in that
00:26:30
place. I think people are learning the layout of that three-story uh building there on 1122 King Road. We know Dylan
00:26:38
came down to be with Bethany. She had a second floor bedroom. She went downstairs after she says she opened the
00:26:44
door and saw a man with bushy eyebrows. And I know there was a lot of confusion over the 911 call, the fact that it took
00:26:51
more than 7 hours for them to make that call. >> When I first woke up that morning, I had
00:26:56
no idea what happened. I woke up around 7:00 with a terrible toothache. So, I called my dad who is a dentist and he
00:27:03
asked what I should do. He told me to take Advil. So, I did and I went back to sleep. I was still out of
00:27:11
it and still didn't know what happened. If I had known, I of course would have called 911 right away. I still carry so
00:27:18
much regret and guilt for not knowing what had happened and not calling right away. Even though I understand it
00:27:24
wouldn't have changed anything, not even if the paramedics had been right outside
00:27:28
the door. I was so frantic that morning and scared to death, not knowing what had happened.
00:27:41
And when I made the 911 call, I couldn't even get out the words. And from then on, I don't remember a
00:27:49
thing. It was like my brain wiped that whole memory. That was the worst day of my life, and I
00:27:57
know it always will be. >> You know, much of the information in this case, it's sort of been that leaky
00:28:03
faucet. We'll get a drip here and a drip there and a drip there. And one of those
00:28:06
drips came recently as we found out a little bit more about why there was so much chaos on that call. There's still a
00:28:13
lot of confusion, but we hear some context now from the Amazon series about how friend Emily Alant, friend Hunter
00:28:20
Johnson, and another friend had come and how Hunter had found Ethan and Zana and
00:28:25
reported that they should call the police for an unconscious person, essentially sparing his friends the
00:28:32
trauma of knowing what happened. And we also know now that at the time they weren't even aware that Maddie and Kaye
00:28:40
had been killed as well. And so we are just beginning to learn this little trickle of information about what had
00:28:46
happened that morning. And it is starting to make a lot more sense. >> And while Bethany did not attend, we
00:28:52
learned more from Dylan who lived on the second floor of the house. And she sat down at the prosecutor's table and took
00:29:00
moments to compose herself. >> Dylan, just take your time. I'm all right. I'm sorry.
00:29:40
Thank you, your honor. And the presentation that Dylan Mortonson had in that courtroom. This
00:29:48
was a a young teenage girl at the time of these murders, overwhelmed by what had happened there, and she had been
00:29:54
savaged in social media. Well, the Dylan Mortonson that showed up today was mature and eloquent and profound and and
00:30:02
so impressive. >> I was barely 19 when he did this. We had just celebrated my birthday at the end
00:30:09
of September. I should have been figuring out who I was. I should have been having the
00:30:14
college experience and starting to establish my future. Instead, I was forced to learn how to survive the
00:30:23
unimaginable. I couldn't be alone. I had to sleep in my mom's bed because I was too terrified to close my eyes.
00:30:36
Terrified that if I blinked, someone might be there. I made escape plans everywhere I went.
00:30:43
If something happens, how do I get out? What can I use to defend myself? Who can
00:30:49
help? Then there are the panic attacks. the kind that slam into me like a tsunami out of nowhere. I can't breathe.
00:31:01
I can't think. I can't stop shaking. All I can do is scream because the emotional pain and the grief is too much
00:31:15
to handle. My chest feels like it's caving in. >> The the enormous consequence of murder.
00:31:24
uh was just expressed there. And I hope those who tortured this young woman take
00:31:31
a moment perhaps to send off something kind now that you know the context of what had happened cuz she doesn't
00:31:38
deserve anyone's sworn. She didn't speak at the sentencing hearing about what she saw that day.
00:31:45
Mostly just talking about the pain she continues to endure. We got to hear her talk about a lot of the coverage that
00:31:51
was about her early on in the coverage of this case and it was it was just devastating to hear.
00:32:02
Mattie Mogan's stepfather Scott Laramie spoke on behalf of himself and Mattiey's
00:32:09
mother Karen who stood beside him in tears. He said he refused to waste words on the defendant, saying evil doesn't
00:32:18
deserve time and attention. It helps us to know that he is in heaven now, freed from the trials of this earth.
00:32:27
We, however, continue to live on without the grace and support of her presence. We will grow old without our only child,
00:32:38
our bright, beautiful friend and daughter. In the end, there are no words that can
00:32:45
accurately capture the devastation of losing Maddie. >> You know, one person who was so moving
00:32:52
to me was Mattiey's father, Ben Mogan. This is a man who's been through a lot in life. And he said that Maddie was the
00:32:59
only child he ever had. She was the only great thing he ever really did and the only thing he was ever proud of. Boy,
00:33:08
those hit me. That was so sad. and he was honest about his struggles with addiction and how Maddie helped him.
00:33:15
>> I went through a lot of uh issues with addiction and with uh with substance abuse and and um when I wasn't
00:33:27
wanting to live anymore, she was what would keep me from just not caring anymore. and um
00:33:38
knowing that she was out there and that she was just such a beautiful person uh kept me alive a lot of a lot of rough
00:33:47
moments and for for her father Maddie's Maddie helped put him back on the rails and even though she's lost her life in
00:33:54
some ways she has saved his and that was very poignant. Ben Mogan, Scott Laramie
00:34:00
and Mattiey's paternal grandmother expressed their support of the plea agreement. Now, in contrast, Kaylee
00:34:07
Gonzalez's family has been outspoken about their disappointment about that plea deal agreement. Her father, Steve,
00:34:14
called it a deal with the devil and has called out the prosecution and judge in the case. When Steve Gonzalez got up to
00:34:22
speak, he dramatically turned the podium in the direction of Coberger. Today we are here to finish what you started.
00:34:34
Today you've lost control. Having interviewed Steve Gonzalez a couple of times for many hours and other
00:34:43
members of the family. What he had to say about when the family learned of this tragedy and the shock and the
00:34:50
horror and they're holding each other and what they decided to do as he tells that story. For me, that was one of the
00:34:58
most memorable moments in that courtroom today. >> My kids turned around, looked at me, and
00:35:04
said, "What do we do, Dad?" I told him, "You get to work. You get your ass to work." And we
00:35:14
started calling. We started texting. We started emailing. And you know what? Within hours, within hours, we had your
00:35:23
white car on a camera. We knew. We knew from the very beginning we had you. The police officers tell us within
00:35:31
minutes they had your DNA. Like a calling card. You were that careless, that foolish, that stupid.
00:35:41
Master degree. You're a joke. Complete joke. >> This family, they came out fighting
00:35:49
right out of the box, you know, from the day they heard what happened to their sister, their daughter. um they were on
00:35:56
it and they wanted to find out who did it, how did it happen, what happened and uh and they haven't really stopped, you
00:36:03
know, and I think that that's very telling of sort of the dynamic in the family and and and how, you know, and
00:36:08
how they express, you know, their own feelings and handle situations. Kayle's older sister, Olivia, um, who I I've met
00:36:17
along the way, who had done such research and found breakthroughs in this investigation, and listen to what she
00:36:24
had to say. >> I will ask the questions that reverberate violently in my own head so
00:36:31
loudly that I can't think straight most any day. Some of these might be familiar, so sit up straight when I talk
00:36:39
to you. How was your life? right before you murdered my sisters. Did you prepare for the crime before
00:36:47
leaving your apartment? Please detail what you were thinking and feeling at this time.
00:36:54
Why did you choose my sisters before making your move? Did you approach my sisters? Do you tell what
00:37:02
you were thinking and feeling before leaving their home? Is there anything else you did?
00:37:09
How does it feel to know the only thing you failed more miserably at than being a murderer is trying to be a rapper?
00:37:19
Did you recently start shaving or manually pulling out your eyebrows? Why November 13th?
00:37:29
Did you truly think your Amazon purchase was untraceable because you used a gift
00:37:33
card? How do you find it enjoyable to stargaze with such a severe case of visual snow?
00:37:41
Where is the murder weapon, the clothes you wore that night? What did you bring into the house with
00:37:49
you? What was the second weapon you used on Kaye? What were Kayle's last words? Please describe in detail the level of
00:38:02
anxiety you must have felt when you heard the bearcat pull up to your family home on December 30th, 2022.
00:38:11
Which do you regret more? returning to the crime scene five hours later. Or never ever going back to Moscow, not
00:38:21
even once, after stalking them there for months. If you were really smart, do you think
00:38:29
you'd be here right now? What's it like needing this much attention just to feel real?
00:38:38
You're terrified of being ordinary, aren't you? Do you feel anything at all or are you exactly what you always
00:38:48
feared? >> Nothing. >> She came mad, but mad and prepared. I sat there at various points and said,
00:38:56
"Can he can we get some answers to those questions?" She asked a number of questions we've all wanted to ask since
00:39:02
the beginning of this case. Not only that, she talked about reports of his heroin use. She talked about his efforts
00:39:09
to be a rapper. She made fun of him taking a online IQ test. >> The truth is you're as dumb as they
00:39:16
come. Stupid, clumsy, slow, sloppy, weak, dirty. Let me be very clear. Don't ever try to convince yourself you
00:39:29
mattered just because someone finally said your name out loud. I see through you.
00:39:36
You want the truth? Here's the one you'll hate the most. If you hadn't attacked them in their
00:39:42
sleep in the middle of the night like a pedophile, Kaye would have kicked your ass.
00:39:49
>> Yeah, she was brilliantly angry. Mary, what did you think? >> Yeah, I know. I I thought she was
00:39:54
incredibly articulate and frankly poised given how angry she was. Uh but I, you know, she also, you know, brought up
00:40:01
things like, "Do you feel anything at all? Do you have any remorse? What, you know, what's wrong with you? Are you a
00:40:06
sociopath? Are you a psychopath?" I mean, she was really grappling with, you know, what the heck are you? And and
00:40:13
don't think that this is going to make you powerful or important. And I'm a little shocked that the judge sort of
00:40:19
allowed that vilification, but uh but she clearly got across how she was feeling and and what she and the family,
00:40:26
I think, wanted to know. And following Olivia's blistering uh comments, Kayle's mother, Christy, also called him a loser
00:40:34
and referenced the death penalty, which had been taken off the table when Coberger took that plea agreement.
00:40:41
>> While I'm disappointed the firing shot won't get to take their shots at you, I'm confident that the men in prison
00:40:46
will have their way with you in more ways than one. You will finally get what you wanted, physical touch. just
00:40:55
probably not how you were expecting it. See, you haven't beat the system. You've
00:41:00
simply entered a new one where the rules are cruel and the consequences will never end.
00:41:11
You are entering a place where no one will care who you are and no one will ever respect you. You will be forgotten,
00:41:17
discarded, used, and erased. You will always be reme remembered as an as a loser, an absolute failure. And when
00:41:26
those prison doors slam shut behind you, I hope that sound echoes in your heart for the rest of your meaningless days. I
00:41:34
hope it reminds you of what we all already know. You're nothing. May you continue to live your life in misery.
00:41:41
You are officially the property of the state of Idaho, where your fellow inmates are anxiously
00:41:48
awaiting your arrival. But it's okay cuz they're there to help you. Hell will be waiting.
00:41:57
>> I don't have a word to add to what she just said. The things Chrissy told me in
00:42:00
in in the interview we did was that she wanted this firing squad because she wanted Colberger to have just that
00:42:08
moment of fear of deep fear that she knew her daughter had experienced as he was attacking her. And then she had one
00:42:17
last thought. She shared a message from Kayle's younger sister. Listen to this. >> You may have received A's in high school
00:42:24
and college, but you're going to be getting big D's in prison. >> Thank you. >> A spattering of applause there.
00:42:38
Something that I've never heard in in a courtroom, too. >> Yeah. I mean, again, you typically don't
00:42:42
hear such strong language uh ever really at a sentencing hearing. >> And outside the courthouse after that
00:42:49
hearing, Steve and and Christy uh referenced 34 stab wounds that they believe their daughter suffered. And
00:42:57
Christy said the details are far more horrific than anybody ever imagined. We do not know at this point if the
00:43:05
families learned of information that came out after the hearing in documents released by the Moscow Police
00:43:12
Department, but here's some of what we have learned from one of the first officers at the scene. He said, "I
00:43:19
looked inside the bedroom. Zanna was laying and it was obvious an intense struggle had occurred. Zanna was
00:43:26
obviously deceased." Quick side note, when I interviewed Zana's family, they said they were so proud. They had been
00:43:33
told that she had fought for her life and that they were very proud of that. They mentioned that in the interview
00:43:39
they did with 48 hours. Ethan was found on the bed. Quote, "The midsection of Ethan's body was covered by a blanket.
00:43:48
Kaye and Madison were covered by a pink blanket which was covered in blood. And Kaye, the report shows, was
00:43:57
unrecognizable as her facial structure was extremely damaged. >> I would caution anybody who feels like
00:44:05
they're curious to take a second thought before reading through these documents because the details are just awful.
00:44:18
And as far as Zana Kernodal's family, the court heard from her father, Jeff, and her sister, Jasmine. I walk with the
00:44:25
comfort of knowing I will see my sister again. Zana didn't get the future she deserved.
00:44:33
She won't be the maid of honor at my wedding. The cool aunt to my future children.
00:44:39
I'll never hear her laugh or see her light up a room ever again. But I will carry her with me for the
00:44:47
rest of my life. I will live in her honor. Fight to be the best kind of woman and someone she's proud of. To
00:44:55
make sure the world never forgets who she was. Zanna's story doesn't end with what was taken from her.
00:45:02
>> Aunt Kim spoke of forgiveness at this hearing. One of the few people who did.
00:45:07
Brian, I'm here today to tell you I have forgiven you because I no longer could live with that hate in my heart. And for
00:45:18
me to become a better person, I have forgiven you. And anytime you want to talk and tell me what happened, get my
00:45:26
number. I'm here. No judgment because I do have answers or questions that I want
00:45:32
you to answer. And I'm here. I'll be that one that'll listen to you. Okay. >> And then in contrast, Zanna's
00:45:42
stepfather, Randy Davis, he turned to Coberger with disgust. He did not have forgiveness on his mind.
00:45:50
>> I want to I want to just be out in the woods with you just so I can teach you
00:45:55
about loss and pain. I'm not I believe I love God. I wouldn't take your life. That's up to him. But I guarantee you,
00:46:03
you are weak. God, I would just give a moment, man. Five minutes out in the woods.
00:46:12
Oh man, you're gonna go to hell. >> Zana Kernodal's mom, Karen Northington, also spoke. She has been open about her
00:46:22
struggles with addiction. She previously said she hit rock bottom and relapsed when Zana was killed and went to jail.
00:46:31
She is now sober and has spoken recently about how her faith has helped her cope
00:46:36
with this tragedy. However, Ethan Chapen's parents and siblings were not in court. Ethan's father, Jim Chapen,
00:46:44
said last week that he preferred to spend this time on their boat with his children. Ethan was a triplet and his
00:46:52
brother Hunter and sister Maisie also attended the University of Idaho. With the impact statements complete,
00:47:00
prosecutor Bill Thompson held back tears while reading the sentence for each count as photos of the victims were
00:47:08
displayed. Cries could be heard in the courtroom. He then showed that photo we all know so well of the roommates on
00:47:18
that game day weekend taken just hours before the murders. He called them a family. The prosecutor said Coberger
00:47:28
would die in prison. Colberger was given the opportunity to speak. This was a moment all of us were waiting for. And
00:47:37
here's what it turned out to be. >> All right, Mr. Coberger. Uh, you have an opportunity to make a statement if you
00:47:42
wish to. I take it you are declining. >> I respectfully decline. >> He said, "I respectfully decline." Our
00:47:50
producers inside the courtroom heard murmurss of surprise, surprise, and coward. Judge Steven Hipler said he
00:47:59
couldn't force Coberger to speak. But even if he could, how could we know it's the truth? Mary, he has a point there,
00:48:07
doesn't he? >> Yeah, he I mean, first of all, you can't force a defendant to speak. they have
00:48:12
their fifth amendment right and under Idaho law a criminal defendant can't be forced to speak at sentencing and it
00:48:18
can't be used against him or her in any way shape or form. Um procedurally the court must ask for alocution but again
00:48:26
it's optional. >> Mary I think one of the questions we have though is why can't we ask him
00:48:30
anything? Why can't we get any information? And I'll ask it by offering a little context. I think a lot of us
00:48:35
look at what had happened and if anything hope that there was a warning sign there that future young men and
00:48:42
women who go to these universities, could we possibly find that out? Would there not be a benefit to trying to get
00:48:50
at some of those answers? >> Look, absolutely. I mean, there's a benefit to understanding the why, you
00:48:56
know, and and and a benefit to understanding everything. The plotting, how did he figure out who they were? Did
00:49:01
he know who they were? Did this just become a happen stance? I mean, but at the end of the day, you guys have to
00:49:06
realize that there is a process in place here. And there are protections that are
00:49:09
afforded not only to the victims, but obviously to the defendant. And this is a capital case. And just like any other
00:49:15
criminal case, you can't compel them to talk. You couldn't compel them to take the stand. You can't even compel them to
00:49:20
take a plea agreement. After all of these uh passionate words um eloquent um spoken through pain, broken hearts, the
00:49:31
judge sentences Kobberger to what was agreed to in this plea agreement. He received four consecutive life sentences
00:49:39
without the possibility of parole along with 10 years for burglary. I remand the
00:49:45
defendant to the custody of the Ado State Board of Corrections for to be imprisoned in an appropriate facility
00:49:51
and execution of the sentence where he will remain until he dies. >> Also, uh Coberger has waved his right to
00:49:59
appeal, but he can file a notice of appeal. What does that mean, Mary? Uh it seems to be contradictory.
00:50:06
>> Yes. uh under the law, and this is the Supreme Court of the United States, if a
00:50:10
defendant asks to file a notice of appeal, his attorneys must do so. And failure to do so is a huge procedural
00:50:17
problem they found. But it's really done to protect those defendants that might not have entered into a waiver of appeal
00:50:23
voluntarily, who who might not have plead guilty knowingly and voluntarily. So here although he has the right to
00:50:31
file that notice of appeal and they must do so if he asks uh I predict that an appellet court if he did would look at
00:50:38
the the basis for the waiver and make sure that it's adequate and determine that it was in this case and that the
00:50:44
waiver was knowing and voluntary uh and therefore reject any appeal. We've touched on this a bit, but at this
00:50:51
point, after hearing all that people had to say and all the questions they still
00:50:56
have, everyone wonders, why did Brian Coberger murder Maddie, Kaye, Zana, and Ethan? Even President Trump weighed in
00:51:05
days before the hearing, posting on Truth Social, "I hope the judge makes Cober at a minimum explain why he did
00:51:12
these horrible murders. There are no explanations. There is no nothing." At a presser, Lieutenant Darren Gilbertson of
00:51:19
the Idaho State Police said, "We have never to this date found a single connection between him and any of the
00:51:27
four victims or the two surviving roommates." Detectives also said they found no social media connection between
00:51:35
Coberger and the victims. There was also evidence he wiped his devices regularly,
00:51:41
using software to clean, and he also used VPN. And we also heard that they never found the weapon. They never found
00:51:49
the clothes he was wearing that night. >> Uh but I think what we do know is that
00:51:54
he's going to that area over 20 times. So there had to have been some connection. He's going to that area.
00:52:00
He's doing something. And it's not like he's going to random areas. He's going to that particular area. So you don't
00:52:05
always know the answer to all the questions, but I would suspect there's some connection at some point along the
00:52:12
way, and we might just never know what it was. Judge Hipler acknowledged the public's need to understand the why.
00:52:20
>> I share the desire expressed by others to understand the why. But upon reflection, it seems to me, and this is
00:52:27
just my own opinion, that by continuing to focus on why, we continue to give Mr.
00:52:33
Cobberger relevance. We give him agency, and we give him power. The need to know what is inherently not
00:52:41
understandable makes us dependent upon the defendant to provide us with a reason and that gives
00:52:48
him the spotlight, the attention, and the power he appears to crave. >> Finally, after all of this time, the
00:52:56
judge lifted the gag order on this case. Uh, when can we expect to learn new details? What does it mean now that the
00:53:04
gag order is gone? Well, it means that people can talk, right? You're going to hear a lot of
00:53:10
people talking. You could hear some of the victims and the roommates talking and and the police and investigators can
00:53:16
all now speak about about the case and their investigation, the facts, evidence, whatever they found. Um, when
00:53:23
it comes to the documents that are sealed though, the judge made it very clear that he was going to wait until
00:53:28
obviously this notice of appeal uh time lapsed before he would actually review those and decide what to unseal and not
00:53:36
to unseal. But that time period is about 42 days. And so I think once that time period lapses, we're going to see the
00:53:44
judge looking at these documents closely and then um hopefully releasing some that will hopefully answer some
00:53:50
questions that everybody's been asking. >> And a number of these documents are already revealing initial reports from
00:53:56
arriving at the scene, conversations with family members. You know, as much as we talk about closure in this case, I
00:54:01
think what people need to understand is we're going to start seeing body cam footage of at least conversations with
00:54:08
witnesses and people standing outside. A lot of information is going to come out.
00:54:13
>> And as of this recording, the Moscow Police Department just posted its police
00:54:18
reports and other documents on its website. As more information comes to light, we will continue to keep you up
00:54:25
to date on this perplexing, disturbing case. And we'll leave it at that for today.
00:54:31
Mary and Matt, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me and thanks to all of you for listening. I'm
00:54:39
Peter Vans. What was it like to be the lead prosecutor in the Brian Cobberger case?
00:54:48
A case that captured the world's attention with seemingly everyone looking over your shoulder and
00:54:55
commenting on your every legal move. And how did that plea deal come to be? And why was there no stipulation that
00:55:03
Coberger provide key answers? Today I'm speaking with Latalk County, Idaho prosecutor Bill Thompson. He has worked
00:55:12
on this case from day one. This is inside the Bryant Coberger case. the Idaho student murders. I'm 48 Hours
00:55:20
correspondent Peter Vans. It is great to be with you, Bill. Thank you for joining
00:55:26
us. Um, can you tell us what it was like for you to be at the center of this case
00:55:34
that literally commanded attention all around the world? >> Well, I didn't feel like I wanted to be
00:55:41
at the center of the case. It's really just a team effort. This was a huge team effort. I've been the prosecutor here
00:55:48
for over 30 years now. I've never seen this degree of coordination with agencies like the FBI and the Idaho
00:55:55
State Police as well as our Moscow Police Department. >> You're the quarterback, kind of the team
00:55:59
captain and all of that social media pressure. Did you feel that during the course of all of this? Did you pay any
00:56:06
attention to it or did you try to brush that aside? >> Actually, I don't watch social media.
00:56:12
Um, we made our decisions based on what the law was and what the evidence was. And frankly, we were pretty successful
00:56:18
in insulating ourselves from what the swings of public opinion might be out there uh on the internet. Bill, I have
00:56:27
to tell you, during that sentencing hearing, I have never, as a reporter who's been in in dozens and dozens of
00:56:33
courtrooms, I've never seen such emotion as I witnessed during that hearing, both
00:56:38
you and the judge were moved to tears. What is it about this case that touches you so personally?
00:56:46
Well, it's just so it's so sad in every possible sense. I we we've dealt with many homicide cases
00:56:55
unfortunately during my my time here as the prosecutor. Uh but this one just was
00:57:01
so sad. Such a loss of life. These young people, you know, four people killed in
00:57:06
their home in the middle of the night. Uh it was just simply cruel uh and heartless and feeling for
00:57:17
those families and feeling for the two surviving roommates. Uh my goodness. Um you know, I was sitting right next to to
00:57:25
one of them as she was giving her statement and she asked that that we block her view of the defendant. That's
00:57:31
why I was sitting kind of at a funny angle, but that was overwhelmingly powerful. uh pure honesty and emotion
00:57:38
from this young woman in such strengths >> and it was remarkable and and for Dylan
00:57:44
Mortonson after what she had experienced through social media she just said it all from the heart um it brought that
00:57:53
teared me I teared me up. I mean she was just a remarkable person. What was it like for you to listen to her?
00:58:00
>> Oh it was it was almost overwhelming. Uh, but I saw her strength and I knew that we needed to be strong with her and
00:58:07
for her. >> Bill, you have been in the house where these students were brutally murdered.
00:58:13
You saw the blood. You've seen what was done to these students bodies. How do you describe the crimes that Brian
00:58:21
Coberger committed? >> These crimes, these murders were brutal. We've we've seen plenty of homicides and
00:58:29
each one is different. Um, but this is one that you'll never be able to erase from your eyes and from your memory.
00:58:36
>> Were you actually inside that house while the victims were still present? >> Yes. Ashley Jennings, my senior deputy,
00:58:45
and I were both on scene on November 13th. We were in the house. We were working with the investigators uh and
00:58:52
seeing firsthand what was going on, what the crime scene looked like. Um, it's part of our philosophy. We work
00:59:01
with our officers right from the very beginning. Um, but it brings with it some challenges and this certainly
00:59:08
brought emotional, physically emotional challenges with it. >> You've also been in the same room as
00:59:14
Brian Coberger. Um, you've looked into this man's eyes and you've watched his reactions during these victim impact
00:59:22
statements. What did you see? I saw nothing in Brian Coberger while the impact statements were going on.
00:59:31
It's as though his eyes were empty. >> He made eye contact with with each of these people completely
00:59:37
unmoved. No reaction, no remorse, no tears. What does that tell you about this man?
00:59:45
What is inside him? If if anything, >> I don't know how to answer that. Um he's an enigma to me. Uh the evil that he
00:59:55
committed is incomprehensible. In many cases when I'm in court, I'm engaging directly with the defendant.
01:00:04
I think I did it once at the sentencing and that was just to point out that he wasn't going to leave prison until he
01:00:12
was dead and that was it. I don't care to ever interact with him again. I'd be happy to never hear his voice again,
01:00:20
never see him. >> Bill, I want to ask you a question. And I know you've been asked this already a
01:00:24
bunch of times, but as you well know, everyone, the families and friends of those students, the public at large,
01:00:32
everyone is vexed by the question of why did he do this? Do you have a theory? I don't know why he did this. Early on
01:00:43
in the investigation when we had uh folks from the FBI's behavioral analysis unit, their profilers, they were here
01:00:50
helping with the investigation in the first few weeks. Um as they were looking at the case, even just the little we
01:00:56
knew then, they were telling us in all likelihood we would never find out or understand why this occurred. And even
01:01:03
if the murderer were to tell us the reasons that in all likelihood it wouldn't make sense to ordinary people
01:01:11
like ourselves. >> So we know that Colberger had done some homework he'd studied um past crimes. Is
01:01:18
it within the realm of possibility that for Coberger this was a thrill kill? >> I don't think we can rule out anything.
01:01:26
I mean he certainly is a criminal justice major. He was studying criminal behavior. He studied serial killers. We
01:01:32
know that um the investigators recovered uh textbooks uh on those topics that were part of classes he was taking. He
01:01:42
studied how to manage a crime scene and that was evidence that we were prepared to offer a trial to help explain why
01:01:48
this particular crime scene it was so clean of incriminating evidence and his car was so clean of incriminating
01:01:55
evidence. There was a lot of thought and preparation put into that. When I talk to people about this case,
01:02:02
people know that there are Ring doorbells and security cameras that pick up automobiles in an area and everyone
01:02:09
knows about DNA. How would you describe He meticulously seemed to prepare for this and yet he
01:02:16
made some mistakes. >> Well, no plan is perfect and we don't know what may have changed his plans if
01:02:26
it did inside the home. um because we don't know who he intended to attack first. Uh we do believe that uh Zana
01:02:35
encountered him while she was still awake. She was up. Um she'd received a door dash uh order. Um that very likely
01:02:44
could have put him into a panic uh and panicked people make some mistakes. Or maybe it's just simply he's not as smart
01:02:51
as he thought he was. Um we'll never know for sure and we really don't need to know for sure. I mean, we look at at
01:02:58
where this investigation went. They started out with one sample of DNA from a knife sheath. It was from a single
01:03:05
male unknown source and the car leaving the scene. That's what the investigators
01:03:10
had. Um, that's the what Cobberger left behind. Uh, and from there, the team put
01:03:18
the case together to where he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There's no question. You know, in those weeks after
01:03:23
the murder when the public was getting more and more uh frustrated that they they felt as though no progress was
01:03:30
being made. In fact, progress was being made. It's just you can't reveal it. Right.
01:03:35
>> Correct. Yes. Well, whenever investigation's going on, the investigators aren't going to
01:03:41
compromise what they know. That's important to protect the the quality of investigation. It was a bit satisfying
01:03:48
uh when we finally were able to come public with the charges and the basis for the charges and to see the skeptics
01:03:55
out there scratch their heads and say, "Oh, yeah, these folks really did know what they were doing." And I know you've
01:04:02
talked about this quite a bit, but the fact that the defense team came to you seeking a deal, doesn't that mean that
01:04:10
you had the leverage in this case that essentially you were holding all of the cards that since Brian Coberger clearly
01:04:18
now wanted to live? So, help me out on this cuz even the president of the United States weighed in on this issue.
01:04:25
Why didn't you put a stipulation into this deal where Coberger would have to have honestly answered all questions
01:04:34
about these murders to the satisfaction of detectives before this plea could be finalized? Why didn't you do that?
01:04:43
>> Well, and you know, Judge Hitler talked about this at the time of sentencing.
01:04:47
Um, there is nothing that I believe that Mr. Coberger could say that would shed the actual truth on what happened. If he
01:04:56
were to talk, he would only say things to benefit himself that would further victimize the families. That's what
01:05:02
we've seen repeatedly over the years. Um and in particularly in major cases. Uh under Idaho law, there's no way we could
01:05:11
compel him to disclose. Um and if we'd gone to trial, he would have never even acknowledged guilt. we would have just
01:05:19
moved into appeal time. So, it was our our conclusion that straight up guilty please as charged, waiver of appeal for
01:05:28
closure, so we have accountability and closure with fixed life sentences was the best course.
01:05:34
Bill, based on my experience and and with my colleagues on 48 hours, we cover murder cases for a living. I had a story
01:05:43
in which in a plea deal, the defendant was, it was contingent on the defendant agreeing to show where he had disposed
01:05:51
of a body. And a colleague of mine had a a case in another state where the plea deal stipulated that not only did they
01:05:59
have to show where the body was, but give a narrative of how that person um committed the crime. And it answered all
01:06:08
sorts of questions for the families. you guys didn't decided not to do that and why not at least try. I I don't
01:06:16
understand that. >> Well, and I I understand what you're saying and and I certainly understand
01:06:21
and hear from uh the families and members of the public uh who will always have the question why. Uh as we viewed
01:06:30
this and looking at the circumstances of this case, it was our conclusion and ultimately my conclusion. I'll take
01:06:37
responsibility. I'm the elected prosecutor, so it stops with me. Um, but it was our our team's decision that
01:06:44
getting the guilty p, straight up factual guilty please, uh, was going to be the best legal way to approach this.
01:06:52
I think that there were concerns that somebody like this particular defendant uh if he was trying to allocate in a
01:07:00
specific factual fashion, he could actually undermine the basis for his plea and the judge would not have as
01:07:07
solid of a foundation to uphold the plea. So we we analyze this really from a pretty strict legal factual point of
01:07:17
view. It's not to say that we don't understand and appreciate folks desires to know what really happened, but I have
01:07:24
no faith at all that Mr. Cobberger would ever truthfully explain what happened or
01:07:29
what he would say would make any sense. And I think that would even further victimize our families.
01:07:34
>> But why not challenge him on that? Why not see if you might get some honesty from him?
01:07:39
>> Yeah, I I hear what you're saying, Peter. And um we have considered that and we decided that our best course on
01:07:46
this case with this defendant in Idaho was to proceed as we did. Uh I'm not going to say the decision was perfect.
01:07:53
It certainly doesn't perfectly answer everybody's questions. I I realize that. But I also accept that um as I said
01:08:00
earlier from the beginning we were advised by the profiling professionals that even if the person who committed
01:08:07
these homicides uh tried to explain his ra reasoning and what occurred that it wouldn't make sense uh to ordinary
01:08:14
people and that would further victimize these poor families. It was a judgment call. I accept it. It was a judgment
01:08:22
call. Is it true that you are personally opposed to the death penalty? You know, I don't know that I have
01:08:36
strong feelings one way or the other. We've had uh a handful of death penalty potential cases during the time here. We
01:08:44
have had one case where the death penalty was imposed and it was thrown out uh after the Arizona versus ring
01:08:52
versus Arizona decision uh came down. Um and that was a case involving Dale Shackleford. That was a 10-week trial.
01:09:00
Uh and we elected at that point that many years after the fact uh that it wasn't realistic to go back to trial uh
01:09:08
just to seek the death penalty. Um so you know we have pursued the death penalty where we think it's appropriate.
01:09:15
Um in the cases we've had to try and death penalty uh eligible we've had it there. Uh we've decided each case on its
01:09:22
merits and I I really don't have a personal moral feeling one way or another. Uh the law of the state of
01:09:29
Idaho is the death penalty is a sentencing option for certain crimes and this this crime would certainly fit the
01:09:35
elements of a death penalty case if we'd gone to trial. How difficult was it for
01:09:40
you to take the death penalty off the table in this case? >> I don't know how to how to characterize
01:09:47
it as being difficult. Making the decision was difficult because it was a major decision. Uh and it was changing
01:09:54
course from where we'd been working for so many months preparing to go to trial.
01:09:59
So, we took a step back and look, we being the attorney team, the prosecutor attorney team, uh, and just kind of
01:10:06
analyzed each aspect of this case and we came to the conclusion that if the defendant was prepared to plead guilty
01:10:13
straight up, factually admit the crimes uh, and agree to wave appeals and we get
01:10:20
fixed life sentences, that that was an appropriate resolution. I've always thought that the death
01:10:26
penalty in in various states is basically reserved for those spectacularly heinous crimes like this
01:10:35
one where someone like Coberger here he butchers these four kids shows no remorse. Wasn't it your responsibility
01:10:44
to to take this case as far as you could so that he gets the maximum penalty that
01:10:51
is in Idaho law? What do you say to that? >> Oh, I would say that it's my responsibility as a prosecutor to do
01:10:59
justice. Prosecutors who blindly go into court on an agenda, I think are doing a
01:11:06
disservice to their profession and the public. This case and his actions certainly deserve the death penalty if
01:11:13
we had had to go to trial. No question about it. for Coberger in his mind. Wasn't this plea deal a
01:11:22
victory? He gets to live. >> You know, I can't speak to what's going on in his mind. I don't see it as being
01:11:29
a victory where he's going to prison. The only way he's going to leave is when he's dead.
01:11:33
>> I've been in many a maximum security prison. And for what it's worth, they are places of extreme punishment. I'll
01:11:42
put it that way. I can say a lot more than that. But when you park sometimes in the parking lot outside a maximum
01:11:48
security prison and you hear people shouting inside from the parking lot, you know there's a hellscape behind
01:11:54
those walls. >> You're right. And there's something to be said for a person being reminded
01:12:00
every day of the punishment for what they've done. >> Give us a sense of what your closing
01:12:06
statement would have been if you had an opportunity to sum it all up. Uh Peter, actually the best way to look at that is
01:12:13
go back to what we did in court on July 2nd in front of Judge Hiper uh where we gave the summary of the evidence in this
01:12:20
case. Uh and we presented it I presented it uh in a manner very similar to what we have argued to the jury would present
01:12:28
in opening statements and argued in closing uh arguments. Uh the length of the evidence here that once the
01:12:35
investigators identified Mr. Coberger, they were able to bring into play uh not only the DNA
01:12:43
match, which was significant in and of itself. It's kind of tough to explain that away when your DNA is on the sheath
01:12:49
of the murder weapon next to the body of one of the victims. >> As you know, uh, Bill, jurors want that
01:12:56
CSI moment, they call it, and you had one in this case. You had a a CSI moment that was irrefutable. Well, and as the
01:13:05
story came out, it it really was a multiple CSI moment because we didn't file charges uh even though we had a lot
01:13:13
of circumstantial evidence until they did the trash poll in Pennsylvania and we got the paternal DNA match uh from a
01:13:23
Q-tip in that trash pole that said the source of that DNA on the Q-tip is the father of the person whose DNA was on
01:13:31
the knife That was the CSI moment to start for us. That's what really triggered us being
01:13:38
able to get the arrest warrant in place, the search warrants in Pennsylvania, get
01:13:42
him arrested, get a direct DNA sample from him, and it matched. That was that was overwhelmingly powerful.
01:13:50
>> When do you believe the Cobberger family realized that their son was the murderer
01:13:57
in this case? >> I don't know for sure. Uh when the investigators spoke with them after his
01:14:03
arrest, uh there was nothing the investigators uh heard or saw to suggest that the family knew uh that Mr.
01:14:11
Cobberger was responsible for this. The information we have and the defense maintained his factual innocence uh all
01:14:19
the way up to the time of the plea would suggest to us that he never acknowledged
01:14:24
guilt to his family. Um, quite possibly not until he stood up in court on July 2nd and entered his guilty p.
01:14:34
At that time, that may very well have been the first time they actually heard it. Police reports reveal that Kaylee
01:14:40
Gonzalez had told roommates that she saw a creepy looking man while she was walking her dog and that roommates
01:14:47
returned to find that the front door had been damaged. Do you believe that Cobberger was possibly stalking the
01:14:54
house, stalking them? >> Well, we think that Coberger was certainly stalking that neighborhood.
01:15:00
Um, and we're aware of those incidents where where the roommates uh at the house would sense perhaps that somebody
01:15:08
was up on the bank behind the house when the dog went out or uh that somebody was
01:15:12
being followed. Um, the cell phone experts were not able to correlate um Mr. Coberger's phone being in the
01:15:21
area at the time of those occurrences. Um, but they were able to show that he was in that area some 20 plus times. Um,
01:15:31
other times at night between like 10 and early morning hours, 10:00 in the evening when there would be no
01:15:37
legitimate reason for him to be over here to shop here being Moscow, being in Moscow to shop, uh, which was his
01:15:45
routine practice. So, we certainly believe that those trips uh were uh involved Mr. Cobberger uh looking uh and
01:15:55
surveilling or stalking, whatever the case may be, >> wanting to see what their living
01:16:00
patterns were when they came and went from the house, getting familiar with that neighborhood, things like that.
01:16:06
>> Certainly, and certainly there may have been other potential victims that he was
01:16:09
looking at. The Gonzalez family told me in an interview some months ago that they
01:16:15
thought he must have been in that house prior to the murders because on the night of the murder, it's alleged that
01:16:22
he had entered that house and gone right up to Matt Madison Mogan's room. Do you
01:16:30
think that's a possibility? >> It's possible. We The investigators never undercovered any evidence that
01:16:36
would definitively prove that, but I think that's a legitimate point. The layout of the house is unique. It's a
01:16:42
little bit confusing. Admittedly, if he was parked up behind the house on that bank, which we believe is where he
01:16:49
parked, he would be able to see into the house at night and he would be able to see whose rooms were where. Um whether
01:16:57
he was actually in the house at some point before November 13th, we don't know for sure. We can't exclude that.
01:17:04
>> Bill, for you personally, what questions do you still have about this case? Well, I don't have any question about
01:17:12
whether we have convicted the killer. Uh I think if there are questions, they're
01:17:18
more details uh that really in the big picture don't have any significance. Um our feeling is that we have accomplished
01:17:28
a lot to obtain straight up guilty pleas to all five charges in the indictment. um and have him spend the rest of his
01:17:37
life, not leave prison until he's dead with no appeals. So we have that finality for the families and for our
01:17:44
community. >> And so each night now, Bill, as you put your head on that pillow to go to sleep,
01:17:50
are you still preoccupied with this case? Is your heart still broken? Do you still have moments of of emotion looking
01:17:58
back at this uh tragedy uh for the state of Idaho, for the country? There is never a day that goes by that I
01:18:09
don't remember this and remember what happened to these poor young people and what happened to their families and
01:18:16
their friends and the community. And I don't know that that ever is going to end. Um,
01:18:24
for the past over 2 and 1/2 years, I have woken up every night around 2:00 in the morning and will just sit there with
01:18:34
this spinning in my head. And I keep a pad of paper and a pen right beside the bed so I can sit up and write down
01:18:41
what's going through my mind about what we need to do with the case before I fall back asleep and forget it. Um,
01:18:48
that's been our life for well over two and a half years. Uh and I think gradually that that will change for us.
01:18:56
Um but what has happened in our community with these murders uh is forever. >> And one last message to Bryant Cobberger
01:19:08
if he happens to be listening to this. >> Goodbye and good riddens. >> Thank you, Bill Thompson.
01:19:17
>> You're welcome. Thank you for the time. And thanks to all of you for listening.
01:19:22
I'm Peter Vans. [Music] Moscow will forever be known as a scene of one of the most tragic crimes in
01:19:45
American history. There's still sort of a a darkness whenever you talk to people.
01:19:52
It will be ever part of the university's history and the town's history. >> There are four very, very important
01:20:01
names in this case. Kaylee Gonzalez, Madison Mogan, Xan Kernodal, and Ethan Shapen. And if you're going to remember
01:20:11
any names from this case, I ask that it be all four. My name is Olivia Gonzalez and Kaye was my little sister.
01:20:21
>> Everybody's going to work and you look out the window and there's kids running
01:20:24
down the street laughing and you're just like, "How can you be out there playing? My
01:20:29
daughter is dead." You know, Kaylee Gonzalez is gone. Stop everything. Everybody in the whole
01:20:36
world, stop. And everything just keeps going. [Music] My sister Zanna Kernodal is one of the happiest, funniest people
01:20:49
I've ever met. And I had the awesome privilege of growing up with her. And I still have a hard time coming to terms
01:21:00
with the facts that it did happen. Brent Coberg is accused of stabbing these four University of Idaho students
01:21:10
in the pre-dawn hours on November 13th, 2022. Uh the murder weapon, which was a knife, has never been found. This is
01:21:17
type of survival knife. Brian Coberger did not make his own plea. The judge entered a plea for him of not guilty.
01:21:26
>> Maximum penalties, life in prison, or the death penalty. Due to the nature of
01:21:31
the crimes, the state of Idaho is seeking the death penalty. He was there to kill.
01:21:35
>> He came in with the kit. I believe he had a kill. And you believe that everything right down to the implement
01:21:42
of destruction, this large marine knife, that was all planned. >> All planned. It
01:21:48
>> was inhumane. You wouldn't do these type of things to any living creature, let
01:21:53
alone an innocent human being. The star piece of evidence in the prosecution's case is the DNA that was
01:22:03
found on the knife sheath that was left at the crime scene that there's so much other evidence that's also pointing
01:22:10
towards nobody else that we're aware of. How was Brian Cobberger's car spotted leaving the scene? Why was his cell
01:22:18
phone seen there 12 times, including the morning after the offense? Prosecution would like everyone to believe that it's
01:22:26
an open andsh shut case. But I think the facts they have make the case more open
01:22:32
than open and shut. According to the defense, there is no connection whatsoever between Brian
01:22:40
Cobberger and the victims. And if there is no connection, then there is no motive. And if there is no motive, then
01:22:48
it becomes very hard to make the case that he is the killer. And this is a graduate student, not a trained
01:22:54
assassin. >> It's more so about putting these pieces together because I know what the puzzle
01:23:01
looks like at the end. I have the box in front of me, but I'm missing so many pieces.
01:23:08
How did all of these pieces fall to create what I'm living in right now? Where did where did this come from?
01:23:20
[Music] [Music] It was not the new Steve and Christy Gonzalez. Elvis wanted to hear. In
01:24:09
August of 2023, just 6 weeks before the murder trial of Brian Coberger was set to begin, he waved his right to a speedy
01:24:18
trial. >> Surely you want to begin? >> Absolutely. >> They would have to wait indefinitely for
01:24:25
their day in court. I was really hoping that um we could get this show on the road because uh the not
01:24:33
knowing it just it's agony. It's agony. Steve and Christy, the parents of Kaye, haven't left anything to chance. After
01:24:47
the judge issued a gag order to attorneys and law enforcement, quote, to preserve the right to a fair trial, they
01:24:55
drilled down on their own investigation and are now sharing what they believe that investigation found. Steve says he
01:25:04
believes transparency is the best path to justice. >> We're not going to just sit back and
01:25:12
cross our fingers and pray that we're going to get justice. [Music] It has been a long and painful journey
01:25:22
for the families of Kaylee Gonzalez, Maddie Mogan, Zana Kernodal, and Ethan Chapen. the four University of Idaho
01:25:31
students who were savagely murdered by a knife wielding asalent in the wee hours
01:25:37
of November 13th, 2022 as they settled down to sleep in their off-campus house on King Road.
01:25:45
>> Do you ever dream of your sister? >> Yeah, I've had some dreams of her. There's times where I prayed and asked
01:25:55
God to see her another time and I did and just gives me some peace knowing that I know she's okay.
01:26:03
[Music] Jasmine Kernodal who is speaking for the first time was a senior at Washington
01:26:11
State University and lived only 15 minutes away from her younger sister Zana. Often mistaken as twins growing
01:26:19
up, she says they were best friends. >> She just was always fun and she was uplifting and she took any bad situation
01:26:28
and turned it into a good one. >> Jeeoff, what did you love most about your daughter?
01:26:34
>> Everything. >> She cared about people. She was a people person. She cared about
01:26:40
her friends just as much as like her family. For the first time in her life, Zana had fallen in love with fellow
01:26:49
student Ethan Chapen, a triplet who loved his siblings, boats, and working on a tulip farm.
01:26:56
>> The sweetest kid ever. They were just two happy people. And there's just seeing the videos and photos of them,
01:27:03
you can just like tell how happy they are. They were just amazing together. Sadly, they will now forever be linked
01:27:11
in death. On Sunday morning, November 13th, Zana's friends started calling Jasmine, saying
01:27:20
something bad had happened on King Road. Jasmine rushed over to Zana's house. >> And while you're driving that 8 n miles
01:27:29
over to the house, are you trying to reach your sister then? >> Mhm. >> How many times do you call her?
01:27:34
>> A lot. I called her a lot. I called Ethan a lot. Her next call was to her father. Jeffrey had been visiting
01:27:41
Jasmine for dad's weekend and was on his way home. >> So, you answer the phone. What do you
01:27:46
hear? I hear her kind of crying and just telling me to get back to Moscow and meet me at Santa's house and
01:27:59
you know, my heart drops. He instantly raced back down there. The house was cordoned off and swarming with
01:28:08
investigators. As soon as Jeffree said he was Zanna's father, he and Jasmine were escorted to the Moscow Police
01:28:16
Department. >> And Jasmine, what does the officer say to you and your father? >> Oh, I don't remember exactly. Just that
01:28:26
four people passed away and that one was Santa. >> The worst day of your life. just your
01:28:34
worst nightmare. [Music] It just happened. You know what do you do? You can't do a damn thing.
01:28:45
>> 100 miles away, the Gonzalez family also had been getting frantic calls saying
01:28:51
something bad had happened to their daughter Kaye, but no one knew what. >> I just kept saying over and what do I
01:28:58
do? What do we do? What do we do? Finally, at around 4:00 in the afternoon, a deputy appeared at their
01:29:05
door >> and we said, "What's going on? I can confirm your daughter's died. It's passed away."
01:29:11
>> He said, "There were four victims." And we and I said, "Four?" And he said, "Yes, ma'am." I said, "Can
01:29:16
you tell us if one of the victims was Mattie Mogan?" And he said, "Yes, ma'am." >> Maddie Mogan, Kayle's best friend from
01:29:26
childhood. give us a sense of just how close uh Kaye and Maddie were in life. >> I think that they had a very
01:29:36
amazing relationship. The epitome of true best friends from very early. I mean, they were sisters
01:29:44
through and through. They were um completely inseparable. As soon as the news hit, Olivia, the
01:29:53
eldest of the five Gonzalez children, and her parents went into detective mode. We had zero details. We just knew
01:30:00
they were gone. >> Olivia got into her sister's call log and frantically started cold calling
01:30:07
recent numbers. She says a friend told her that Kaye had been at the Corner Club bar around 1:07 a.m. and later
01:30:16
texted a ride share driver who Olivia managed to track down. >> The ride share driver said around 1:45
01:30:24
Kaye had texted him requesting a ride from the Grub Truck, which is the local mac and cheese food truck to take her
01:30:32
back home to 1122 King. and she had with her another female. >> Olivia then uncovered one of the most
01:30:40
important leads in the case. The ride share driver told her about a camera mounted on the grub truck.
01:30:48
>> So I was able to look it up and um find Kaye on the video and I saw the girl that she was with was Maddie. So at that
01:30:55
point I knew Kaylee and Maddie were together. They got into the car to go home together and alone. The driver told
01:31:03
her the exact time Kaye and Maddie were dropped off at their house on King Road,
01:31:08
1:56 a.m. A timeline she says she confirmed before the police. >> I immediately took it to the police
01:31:18
officers. Here's her phone information. Here's the ride share driver's name. >> Olivia says Kaye made a call to her
01:31:27
boyfriend at 2:56 a.m., but he didn't answer. The Gonzalzes believe Kaye fell asleep shortly after. According to the
01:31:37
police affidavit, Kaye and Maddie were stabbed to death between 4 and 4:25 a.m. Just as they had done since they were
01:31:46
little girls. They were sleeping in the same bed. >> Those two best friends since little
01:31:53
girls, I don't think there's anything more terrifying than what they went through.
01:32:00
I really don't. >> The killer took four lives in a matter of minutes, but he left behind two
01:32:09
surviving roommates, one of whom would provide a key description of the intruder.
01:32:15
>> He was dressed in black, muscular build, and very bushy eyebrows. [Music] If there is one picture that speaks to
01:32:41
the Idaho student murders, it is this. Six smiling college students blissfully unaware of the carnage to come. It's
01:32:51
staged in a way that is almost in a strange way ominously predicting. >> Investigative journalist Howard Bloom
01:33:00
has written extensively on the student murders for Graden Carter's online magazine Airmail. He is now writing a
01:33:08
book on the case. >> On the ends of the picture are the two survivors. In the middle are are are the
01:33:14
victims and they're huddled together. Kaye with a beaming Maddie on her shoulders. Friends for life. Ethan with
01:33:23
his arm around Zana. Young love in full bloom. A moment that should have been a memory of their idyllic college years
01:33:31
would eternally be a reminder of the gruesome murders that put them in their graves.
01:33:40
What makes it so tragic is they're forever preserved in this moment. They'll never be able to leave
01:33:47
this moment. >> Hours after this photo was taken, the four friends would be murdered. Their
01:33:54
deaths so violent, even the house seemed to be bleeding. >> There was literally blood oozing out
01:34:00
from the home. Uh you could see it on the exterior walls. >> CBS News consultant Brianna Fox is a
01:34:06
former FBI agent and professor of criminology at the University of South Florida. That's how bloody and gruesome
01:34:14
the crime scene is. >> According to the affidavit, which outlines law enforcement's
01:34:20
investigation, the bodies of Zana and Ethan, who was sleeping over, were found in or near her bedroom on the second
01:34:28
floor. The bodies of Kaye and Maddie were on the third floor in the same single bed in Mattiey's room.
01:34:37
>> How did your daughter die in that house? What do you know? We know the autopsy.
01:34:43
We know the means of what is officially how she died. She was assaulted and stabbed
01:34:49
>> several several times. Her death certificate is the ugliest, disgustingest piece of paper that you
01:34:56
will ever see in your life. >> And every line is a horror show. >> Every line. Cuz there's causes of death
01:35:03
and then there's contributions to death. Christy and Steve spoke to coroner Kathy
01:35:08
Mbott before the gag order was issued and they say she told them how the two friends were positioned in the bed.
01:35:17
>> The bed was up against the wall. The headboard was touching the wall and the left side of the bed was touching the
01:35:23
wall and we believe that Maddie was on the outside and Kaye was on the inside. >> According to Coroner Mbot, the killer's
01:35:31
first victim was Maddie, says Steve. And then from Maddie, he moved on to your daughter. You believe she had awakened
01:35:40
at that point? >> Yes. >> Yeah. There's evidence to show that she awakened and >> tried to get out of that situation.
01:35:47
>> The way the bed was set up is what >> she was trapped. >> She was trapped. >> We know from the affidavit that
01:35:53
Coberger's cell phone pinged in the vicinity of the house 12 times prior to the murders. Steve says before the gag
01:36:02
order, one of the lead investigators told him they believe Coberger had been scouting out the house. You believe
01:36:09
these visits were like he was like on an intelligence mission, a scouting mission, looking at lifestyle patterns,
01:36:17
when they came and went, who came to the house methodically. >> He had to know when people were coming,
01:36:24
people were going. It makes the Gonzalez wonder if he'd ever gone inside the house.
01:36:30
>> I think that he at least had opened that door, went in, tested the waters, looked
01:36:35
around. >> Steve says the coroner told him the killer's rampage started on the third
01:36:42
floor where both Maddie and Kaye had their bedrooms. Christy thinks he wasn't expecting to find the two friends
01:36:49
together in the same bed. >> I do think that his plan went ary. I do think that, you know, he intended to
01:36:55
kill one and killed four. >> Brianna Fox also believes Zanna and Ethan were collateral damage. According
01:37:01
to the affidavit, Zana received a Door Dash food delivery at 400 a.m. then went back to her room on the second floor.
01:37:11
It's possible, says Fox, that Zana, still awake, came face to face with the killer.
01:37:18
>> And she sees somebody that she doesn't expect. and I don't think he was expecting to see her either.
01:37:24
>> One of the two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortonson, later told the police that she heard what she thought was
01:37:31
crying coming from Zana's room. She heard a male voice say something to the effect, "It's okay. I'm going to help
01:37:40
you." Not something a killer would likely say to an intended target, says Fox. >> He probably was trying to make a
01:37:48
split-second decision. Do I run away? Do I kill her? What do I do? And he decided
01:37:54
to kill her. >> At approximately 4:17 a.m., police say an outside security camera less than 50
01:38:02
ft from Zanna's room, picked up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud
01:38:10
thud. Shortly after, Dylan, the surviving roommate whose bedroom was near Zanna's, opened the door. According
01:38:18
to the police affidavit, when Dylan opens the door, she saw a man dressed in black with a black mask and she says he
01:38:27
has bushy eyebrows. Those bushy eyebrows become very important when the police are
01:38:35
making their identification. >> The man with the bushy eyebrows kept walking to the rear of the house without
01:38:42
harming Dylan. >> Why was Dylan not killed? Again, there is no definitive answer. He He didn't
01:38:50
kill her because he didn't see her. He was sort of transfixed on getting out. He didn't kill her because he was
01:38:58
satiated. >> Or he was simply too depleted to kill again, says Fox. >> Even stabbing somebody for a minute and
01:39:05
a half, not only is that overkill, but it actually would become rather exhausting.
01:39:11
The police believe the murder weapon, which has not been found, was a militarystyle KBAR knife similar to this
01:39:18
one. The details are disturbing. >> This is not a civilian knife. It was actually meant to tear apart bone,
01:39:27
ligaments, organs. So this is a extremely brutal and something that you would never expect a person to walk in
01:39:39
and want to commit unless they took some pleasure out of the brutality of it. >> After seeing the intruder, Dylan, the
01:39:48
surviving roommate, told investigators she locked herself in her room. It would be almost eight hours before 911 was
01:39:57
called, causing an uproar on social media criticizing Dylan's alleged inaction. But Brianna Fox says it's not
01:40:06
unusual for people to freeze or be too afraid to intervene. >> She had no reason to, you know, know how
01:40:14
to handle herself in that moment. According to the affidavit, the male walked towards the backsliding glass
01:40:21
door and presumably left the scene. But committing murder and getting away with it are two different things, says Fox.
01:40:29
>> For an offender to get away with a crime, a murder. They have to bat a thousand. They have to be absolutely
01:40:35
perfect. They make one singular mistake. That's all it takes. And that one possible mistake in this case may have
01:40:44
been the sheath to the KBAR knife. One like this was found on the bed next to Mattie Mogan. It would lead
01:40:51
investigators to the door of a man studying for a career in criminology. Brian Cobberger, the alleged killer.
01:41:03
To see a timeline of the case, go to 48our.com. [Music] [Music] Day after day and week after week pass
01:41:32
and there is no suspect that is arrested. What was that time like for you? >> That was the worst. For 47 days after
01:41:42
the murders, the families of Kaye, Maddie, Zana, and Ethan, and the country waited. We do not have a suspect at this
01:41:51
time and wept and weighed in. The people of Idaho and those throughout our nation who provided
01:42:01
information has been very impressive. We've received over 19,000 tips. Then on December 30th, 2022, Brian
01:42:12
Cobberger was arrested in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. At the time, his attorney said Coberger
01:42:21
looked forward to being exonerated. >> What goes through your mind when you see the face of the alleged killer?
01:42:28
>> Oh, I wonder why. Who? Who is this? Why? You know, never heard of the person before. It still is confusing. Why? At
01:42:36
this point, the families knew as much about Coberger as the public did. A PhD candidate studying criminology just 10
01:42:45
miles away at Washington State University in Pullman. >> I remember thinking, I only have a few
01:42:53
minutes to look up this individual and to try to get any credible information before things start getting wonky. Some
01:43:03
of Olivia Gonzalez's online discoveries of Coberger made her uneasy. >> He had made a few posts on Reddit in
01:43:12
which he was conducting seems like a questionnaire to uh people in prison or jail who had committed crimes. How did
01:43:21
you pick your victim or your target? >> For 7 weeks, the families and the country were left wondering.
01:43:32
I think for this type of an investigation, 47 days is actually quick. >> Criminologist and CBS News consultant
01:43:40
Brianna Fox says the Moscow police kept things moving. Starting with a video canvas which
01:43:48
produced footage from those early morning hours showing a white car making three passes by the girl's house
01:43:57
starting around 3:30 a.m. Less than an hour later. Investigators say the killer struck.
01:44:07
They noticed that this car approached King Road, left, came back, uh, almost did a U-turn, finally went there around
01:44:16
4:06 in the morning, and that car then departed in about 25 minutes and sped off.
01:44:26
Multiple surveillance cameras then captured that white car as it traveled what appeared to be a less direct route
01:44:33
back to Pullman, Washington, arriving around 5:30 a.m. That information helped investigators
01:44:42
identify the make and model of the vehicle. >> And we're looking for a 2011 to a 2013
01:44:49
Hyundai Elantre. Washington State Police find the car parked outside graduate housing. Uh they get the license plate
01:44:58
and they get Brian Coberger's name. They then get the driver's license and they see the bushy eyebrows that in the eyes
01:45:06
of one of the Moscow detectives must be the eyebrows of the killer. Now armed with a warrant, investigators retrieved
01:45:14
cell tower data from that morning, which captured Coberger's phone around 2:47 a.m. in Pullman when it suddenly stopped
01:45:24
connecting to the network. According to the affidavit, this was also around the time cameras caught a white Alantra
01:45:32
leaving his apartment complex. There was indication that he turned off his cell phone, which is something that a lot of
01:45:40
people do when they want to avoid law enforcement knowing their whereabouts. >> His cell phone signal was picked up
01:45:46
again 2 hours later south of Moscow as it traveled back toward his apartment building. The affidavit described a
01:45:55
deeper dive into Coberger's phone history that revealed this was a familiar neighborhood to him, going back
01:46:03
several months. Cell phone records indicated that he has traveled past and was very near the vicinity of this crime
01:46:11
scene on 12 separate occasions. >> And towers actually captured a 13th trip just hours after the murders.
01:46:19
>> Anecdotally, a lot of killers, they like revisiting the memory of the crime. You
01:46:24
know, I won. I was able to get away with this and you guys won't catch me. >> But they had one secret weapon to make
01:46:31
their case. They had the knife sheath and there was a microscopic spot of DNA on this. Could they tie this DNA to
01:46:39
Coberg? >> According to the affidavit, the DNA was found on the button snap of the sheath,
01:46:46
but when investigators ran it through the national database, there were no matches.
01:46:52
It's unclear if Brian Coberger knew law enforcement was watching when he left Washington in mid December. Coberger and
01:47:00
his father, who had flown in from Pennsylvania, drove back home together in his white Elantra.
01:47:06
>> Coberger, from what I've heard, tells the father that he's in trouble with his
01:47:11
his job. He's concerned enough about his son to want to make the drive back with
01:47:15
him. >> On the 2500 mile journey from Washington, they are stopped twice for traffic violations.
01:47:24
>> Hello. What's also interesting is Coberger's reaction to the police. >> Is this your car?
01:47:30
>> Okay, cool. >> He's pretty calm and cool. >> Father and son made it home to Alrightesville, Pennsylvania, where
01:47:38
Bloom says investigators initiated a stealth operation. >> What they did is they sent a team of
01:47:46
Pennsylvania state troopers to Coberger's family's house. Law enforcement recovered Coberger's
01:47:53
father's DNA from the trash outside their home, which tested as a high probability it was the biological father
01:48:02
of whoever left DNA on the knife sheath. >> So that was the Eureka moment which they
01:48:08
decided they could get an arrest warrant. >> At that point, they made the arrest of
01:48:12
Brian Cobberger and they got a separate essentially search warrant for his DNA. And when investigators compared his DNA
01:48:19
to the DNA on the knife sheath, they say it was a statistical match. At least 5.37 octillion times more likely to be
01:48:30
Coberers than anyone else. [Music] [Music] Where you sit today, are you certain that Brian Coberger is the killer? It
01:48:48
>> was what you know. >> I don't trust anybody or anything. So, I have to see it myself. I have to see
01:48:54
everything. >> As the months pass, Steve and Christy Gonzalez remain a united front in
01:49:02
wanting justice. But their weight has brought different perspectives. >> Your mind is still open to the potential
01:49:09
course >> that it could have been someone else. >> Of course. Yep. I go into that 100%.
01:49:13
Yep. Of course. >> That's not where you are. >> No. >> No, that's fine. >> I don't think there's any slam dunk.
01:49:26
>> Criminologist Brianna Fox says with the gag order in place, any hint of Coberger's defense has come from court
01:49:34
documents. >> It seems that the defense is alleging there was a rush to judgement. Law
01:49:38
enforcement made an arrest too fast and they focused on their client too quickly.
01:49:44
>> A defense filing did reveal Coberger's alibi for the night of the murders. It
01:49:49
simply stated Mr. Coberger was out driving alone. >> The defense is not necessarily having to
01:49:56
prove that he's innocent. They just have to raise doubt. Both Fox and Howard Bloom think the defense can find ways to
01:50:03
poke holes in the prosecution's case, challenging some of the key evidence presented in the affidavit, including
01:50:11
the cell phone location data and the white Elantra. >> There's other concerns such as whether
01:50:18
Brian Cobberger's car was accurately identified at the onset or if that was revised after knowing what Brian Kberger
01:50:24
drove. The cell phone data makes one suspicious of Coberger, but it's not convincing.
01:50:31
It's not putting someone at someone's doorstep. It's putting someone in someone's neighborhood.
01:50:38
If you can raise doubts about the validity and the accuracy of the cell phone data, I think you're half way
01:50:47
there to getting the case against Coberger. either a hung jury or a not-uilty verdict.
01:50:54
>> And there's more. According to the defense, >> that there was no DNA or forensic
01:51:01
evidence found from the crime scene at the apartment, car, office, or on Brian Coberger's person. So, they were
01:51:10
basically alleging how could he have committed such a brutal murder and yet have no evidence found on him of that.
01:51:17
After consulting their own investigators, Christy and Steve theorize that Coberger likely brought
01:51:24
what they call a kill kit with him. >> What do you mean by a kill kit? I think he had a backpack,
01:51:30
>> change of clothes. We don't know if it was coveralls, pants, hoodie, we don't
01:51:34
know. >> A defense filing also claimed the presence of other unidentified male DNA
01:51:42
was found on the premises. Three separate and distinct male DNA profiles were found from the crime scene. Two
01:51:51
were inside the house. One was outside on a glove. >> The defense wants to know who are these
01:51:56
people and what role could they have played in this whole story. So what the defense is doing now is trying to look
01:52:04
for other narratives that make sense. Howard Bloom has written extensively about this case, including a piece on a
01:52:14
possible alternative defense theory involving drugs. >> Maybe someone had renegged on a drug
01:52:20
payment, and this was a retribution of vengeance for people not paying for drugs they had ordered. I want you guys
01:52:28
to respond to one thing that's out there because the speculation that somehow drugs were involved in this attack.
01:52:36
That's just Hollywood nonsense. I I just dismiss that because I I understand our
01:52:41
society wants to believe in some of these movies that they watch. They don't have these crazy lives where they're
01:52:49
crossing paths with people like that. That storyline of it being drugs gives people a reason to think why it happened
01:52:56
because nobody knows why. And the reason I think it happened is because he wanted
01:53:01
to. That's what he wanted to do. He wanted to commit a murder. >> Brian Coberger's defense attorneys argue
01:53:08
there's a lack of evidence linking their client to the students. >> The defense is claiming that the
01:53:14
defendant, Brian Coberger, and the victims have absolutely no connection. There's no motive. In the minutes after
01:53:21
Brian Coberger was publicly named, the Gonzalez family went online. >> They just told us the name and we
01:53:28
immediately started googling. >> They believe they had found a possible connection through Instagram and
01:53:35
immediately took these screenshots. >> From our investigation of the account, it appeared to be the real Brian
01:53:41
Cobberger account. Among the people this account was following were Mattie Mogan and Kaye
01:53:48
Gonzalez in addition to several people with the name Coberger. But when we looked through those it appeared to have
01:53:56
other family members that were related to him. >> At first, Steve, who works in it, was
01:54:03
skeptical, thinking someone created a fake account immediately following Coberger's arrest. But according to the
01:54:11
family, they uncovered more possible connections. >> You would go to Mattie's Instagram
01:54:17
account and look at her pictures and he liked them. Brian's name was under a lot
01:54:22
of Maddiey's pictures. Like that picture and that picture and that picture and that picture. So he was actively
01:54:28
looking at the Instagram accounts >> and the importance of that is what? >> Just digital evidence that this
01:54:35
particular account had some type of connection with the with the victims. 48 hours has not confirmed the
01:54:42
authenticity of this account, which has since been deleted, and the gag order prevents investigators from commenting.
01:54:53
After dedicating months looking for their own answers, the Gonzalez say they are mentally prepared for trial, no
01:55:02
matter when it begins. >> I think he's done. He's going to feel all of us just staring at the back of
01:55:09
his head. And he's going to know that we are the consol family. And he knows what
01:55:12
he did to our daughter. [Music] How could this happen to a group of kids that are doing everything the way
01:55:39
they're supposed to do? To not known is what keeps you awake at night. And it's every day, all day. It never
01:55:50
stops. Why? Why? Why? There is no why. It is as unexplainable today as it was the day Kaylee Gonzalez, Maddie Mogan,
01:56:02
Zana Kernodal, and Ethan Chapen were murdered. >> I wish I wish we knew. >> They were all four of them were just
01:56:13
such great people and made such an impact on the lives around them. For now, the families are left with
01:56:23
thoughts of what might have been. >> Kaylee Jade Gonzalez has been recommended to receive aostumous
01:56:34
bachelor's degree. >> Her family will receive the diploma of the University of Idaho.
01:56:43
On May 13th, 2023, exactly 6 months from the day of the murders, an occasion that
01:56:49
would have been a cause for celebration. Graduation was instead another reminder
01:56:55
of what was lost. >> Seeing all those graduation photos, it just they should be here.
01:57:05
>> Graduation is just one of many milestones that will be missed. She would have been my maid of honor and
01:57:13
I probably would have been hers and it's like sad to have to go through those life moments without her.
01:57:22
>> Jasmine Kernodal planned to work side by side with her sister Zana creating their
01:57:28
own marketing business. >> It's just not the same without her because she just brought like such a
01:57:36
crazy different energy than anybody else I've ever met. Kaylee Gonzalezeves's future was in
01:57:43
sight. She had accepted a job in Austin working for an IT firm. Kaye not only pushed herself, say her parents, but
01:57:52
pushed them. >> We lost that person that would force us to make new memories and force us to go
01:57:58
and take on something that seems a little daunting at first. >> One of you guys,
01:58:03
>> guys. For the Gonzalezes, amid all the loss, there was an addition to the family when in February, Olivia gave
01:58:11
birth to a baby girl. >> So, her name is Theodora Mattie K. Obviously, Mattie Kay is after Maddie
01:58:19
and Kaye. >> And if one were to believe in signs, there were, says Olivia, several with
01:58:26
Theodora Matt Kay's arrival in the hospital. Her room number 1113 was the same as the date of the murders,
01:58:35
November 13th. And eerily, the time of birth, 4:21 a.m., is in the time frame that Kaye and
01:58:44
Maddie are believed to have been killed. >> To have birth and life and firsts, first
01:58:52
giggles, first walks, that they would be there somehow, you know, even if it's just a namesake.
01:59:02
This is the Gonzalez family. >> Maddie has truly been a blessing in our lives. >> I'm Zana's sister. The families of Kaye,
01:59:10
Maddie, Zana, and Ethan have all searched for ways, sometimes together, to cope with a horrible new normal. And
01:59:20
>> we all are always going to be there for each other. And it's just difficult. We
01:59:24
all We're all going through it in our own ways. For Ethan's parents, Stacy and Jim
01:59:31
Chapen, one way of coping involves creating a foundation. Ethan's smile. >> Ethan just had a great smile and he
01:59:38
smiled all the time. >> Raising money for scholarships by selling tulips planted in honor of Ethan
01:59:46
who had worked at a tulip farm. >> So Ethan will live on through the foundation. That's what motivates us to
01:59:54
to do this. How do you live with this, Jeff? >> It's not easy. [Music] >> Just got to keep going, you know?
02:00:06
>> I think just like living our lives like Zana would want us to, I know that she
02:00:12
would want us to talk about the life that she lived and to be her voice right now.
02:00:19
>> She had a beautiful smile. her and Maddie. >> The memories that we shared, we don't do
02:00:26
it lightly because they are very private memories and sometimes it feels like I'm
02:00:31
giving away a part of them. But I do it for the importance to realize how great of a loss it is
02:00:40
because nothing's going to bring them back. [Music] CBS next Saturday. 48 Hours brings you
02:01:13
backtoback episodes all summer long. Next week, Beachside Homicide. >> How could a single mom be executed in
02:01:21
Cape Cod? >> I was knocked unconscious. I couldn't protect her. >> 48 hours crime time. Double feature next
02:01:27
Saturday on CBS and streaming on Paramount Plus. [Music] Welcome to Postmortem, a new companion
02:01:48
podcast to 48 hours. So, I'm your host, CBS News correspondent Ann Marie Green, and each week, we will take you behind
02:01:56
the scenes with correspondents and producers who know these stories best. We go deeper into each episode,
02:02:04
explaining how the reporting came together and their personal experiences with investigating these crimes. Now,
02:02:11
not only do I report for 48 hours, but I am personally a huge fan of the show. So, I'm really excited to take a closer
02:02:19
look at these cases with the 48 Hours team to hear their stories, including, you know, brand new details. And we're
02:02:26
talking about details that never made it into the episodes. We're going to start
02:02:31
though by answering some of your biggest questions about the Idaho student murders. This is a case that captivated
02:02:39
and continues to captivate the country. And joining me now is longtime 48 Hours correspondent Peter Vans and producer
02:02:47
Liza Finley. Welcome guys. So good to have you guys here. >> Thanks Amarie. We're very happy to be
02:02:53
here. >> Yeah, this postmortem is is something we dream about because so we have so much
02:02:58
information particularly on this story that we can't get to in the limited time. So, this is a wonderful
02:03:04
opportunity to expand and and share with our our our viewers and listeners in this case uh some new details.
02:03:11
>> Before we get to our postmortem, let's listen to an overview of this week's episode.
02:03:17
It's been a long and painful journey for the families of Kaylee Gonzalez, Madison
02:03:23
Mogan, Zana Kernodal, and Ethan Chapen, the four University of Idaho students who were stabbed to death in the
02:03:31
pre-dawn hours of November 13th, 2022. >> Do you ever dream of your sister? >> Yeah, I've had some dreams of her.
02:03:41
Just gives me some peace knowing that I know she's okay. Zanna Kernodal's sister Jasmine and
02:03:48
father Jeffrey are speaking out for the first time since Santa's murder. It >> just happened. You know what do you do?
02:03:57
You can't do a damn thing. >> Everybody's going to work and you look out the window and there's kids running
02:04:02
down the street laughing and you're just like, "How can you be out there playing? My
02:04:07
daughter is dead." On the night of the murders, Christy and Steve Gonzalezeves's daughter, Kaye, was
02:04:13
in the same bed as her childhood friend, Maddie Mogan. The Gonzalez say coroner Kathy Mbot told them before a gag order
02:04:22
the killer attacked Maddie first, then moved on to Kaye. >> There's evidence to show that she
02:04:28
awakened and tried to get out of that situation. >> The way the bed was set up is what
02:04:34
>> she was trapped. >> She was trapped. A judge has entered a plea of not guilty on Brian Coberger's
02:04:41
behalf. >> The murders of college students Ethan Chapen, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodal,
02:04:49
and Kaylee Gonzalez shocked the country in November of 2022 and really captured the attention of the
02:04:57
country. I think part of it had to do with how that this is a time in your life that is supposed to be one of the
02:05:05
best times in your life and every photo that you saw of them was bursting with life.
02:05:15
So the idea that those lives were cut short I think really shook a lot of people.
02:05:23
>> This is such a deeply personal story. uh perhaps the most that I've ever been
02:05:28
involved with. I'm a father of six, six who have all gone to university. I attended Washington State University,
02:05:36
eight miles from where this murder scene was located. And when I went to school there, the idea of crime might be a kid
02:05:43
stealing a candy bar from a store. It was just simply unheard of. So, it's deeply personal. and and to connect with
02:05:49
with the family, the Gonzales, Christy and Steve, and to speak with Jasmine and Jeffrey Kernodal. Jasmine is
02:05:57
Zana's sister and Jeffrey her dad was the most profound interviews I think I I have ever done and Liza was was in on
02:06:06
this. We were all so moved. >> It was so emotional. >> It really was. >> You know, genuinely had tears in my eyes
02:06:14
at times. And as I watched this hour for the eighth time, I still get tears in my
02:06:20
eyes cuz it's >> the sense of loss is profound and it is felt all over the world. And you're
02:06:25
right, Anmarie, this time of innocence, the adventure of learning, the deep friendships formed at university.
02:06:33
>> And to see it interrupted like this allegedly by a person they still don't have a motive for um just shocked
02:06:42
everyone. The consolidates, they moved to the general area because they wanted a safe place to raise their kids.
02:06:48
>> Yeah. They It's talk about ironic. They lived in California. It was getting kind
02:06:53
of dangerous there. They felt they have five children. So, they went on a road trip and we were going to find America's
02:07:00
best place to live, the safest place to raise our family. And they settle on this beautiful, beautiful little town in
02:07:07
Idaho. And lo and behold, just few hours away by car where where Kaye went to school, the worst crime imaginable
02:07:16
happened. And they regret moving. You know, they go, "If only we hadn't moved." >> There's also something else I wanted to
02:07:26
mention at this point that the Gonzalez shared with us that we weren't able to to get into our broadcast. Their
02:07:33
daughter Kaylee uh Gonzalez uh was a true crime fanatic. She watched all these shows. She loved watching 48
02:07:42
hours and she was she was concerned enough about crime that she would take notes her her mom said during the
02:07:50
broadcast and she came up with a plan of action. Hey, if any of us are ever assaulted, if we're ever in a crime
02:07:58
situation like we've seen on 48 hours in these other shows, this is what we should do. She actually typed it out and
02:08:04
the family had a nickname for her. They called her the protector >> because of this. And I talked to
02:08:11
Christie about it. Can you imagine the horror when the worst possible nightmare, in this case it's not a
02:08:20
cliche, is occurring. her best friend in life, Maddie, killed alongside her and now the asalent is attacking her.
02:08:29
>> You know what? One of the ironies though, which you were talking about her philosophy after being such a true crime
02:08:36
show fanatic was separate. I'll go you right, you go left, so one of us will survive and be able to call
02:08:46
the police and come to your rescue. Well, those two young women were killed in the same bed.
02:08:54
>> They didn't have a chance to separate. She was trapped. Kaylee was trapped. >> There are so many components of this
02:09:01
that sort of give you chills. Um, you focus on the families, which cannot be easy. I can't imagine it was easy to get
02:09:10
them to talk. We have a uh a a great um colleague out in California named Greg Fiser who had uh established a
02:09:19
relationship with the family when we did our first hour uh earlier in in 2023. I
02:09:26
did a a Zoom interview with Steve Gonzalez and I felt as though we had really connected. You know, they said,
02:09:32
"Okay, you've got five minutes." cuz he was going from reporter to reporter and we really connected and we talked for 25
02:09:39
minutes and and when that story ran uh we understood that the family appreciated how respectful we were.
02:09:49
There was no sensationalism. This is 48 hours. This is CBS News. And that connection continued. And so Greg
02:09:55
Fischer was talking with with the family out there and said, "Peter would really
02:10:00
like to sit down and have a longer conversation with you." And because Liza is really strong on on this, they
02:10:07
believe that transparency and getting these words out is important for them to find justice, they agreed to the
02:10:13
interview. Mhm. >> There's a gag order. >> Mhm. >> And that was issued by the judge and it
02:10:19
basically uh prohibits attorneys, law enforcement, officials from speaking. So Steve feels very strongly that that is
02:10:29
not in the best interest of justice because there have been so many rumors, so much false information out there that
02:10:36
he believes that real journalists, real officials should be dispelling these these false falsities.
02:10:45
So he he agreed to this very long interview, >> six, seven hours. >> Yeah, I heard Peter is legendary for his
02:10:53
long interviews. He is famous for that in our shop. >> We're going to go two more hours on
02:10:58
this. Um, >> but it was great. >> It was they were extraordinary. And once you know people families, everyone has
02:11:07
to remember this. >> Families that have gone through this this kind of shocking trauma. They don't
02:11:13
interview one another, right? That's not the way we talk. All of us have lost someone in our families. when that's
02:11:20
happened in in my case, I don't interview my sisters about how you're feeling in things. And so sometimes when
02:11:26
when a person like myself comes into the picture, it's such a catharsis for them.
02:11:31
There's so much they want to say. What I valued about it is their willingness to
02:11:38
pull us into this moment in their life, which is the most painful moment that they will ever experience. And it's
02:11:45
going it's going it's not a moment, it's their life now. Um, but we often, you know, sometimes when we tell these
02:11:50
stories and 48 hours is an excellent job at being compassionate and fair, but it
02:11:56
is an hour and a whole case and we don't sort of get a chance to slow down and be
02:12:02
reminded of the human victims that are still alive. Zanna's sister Jasmine has never spoken before. Um, her father
02:12:12
Jeffrey never spoken before. Um, and in this case, you you didn't pre-in them. You didn't get a chance to talk to them
02:12:18
ahead of time. >> No, not not at all. Not with the Gonzalez's either. But, you know, I
02:12:23
prefer I prefer that. I prefer that we get to know each other in the course of this interview. You always begin very
02:12:29
gently. You talk about the the the sister that she loved, the daughter that he loved,
02:12:34
>> and you work your way into the details. And I find when we both are trying to
02:12:40
sort each other out, if you can make that connection, it becomes a a profound thing and they really open up. Jasmine
02:12:48
Kernodal. Oh, Zanna's sister, >> amazing. >> She's just it gets me talking to right
02:12:54
now about it. She's the power of the grief inside her to be able to express some of that. And Jeffrey in in the
02:13:02
which you saw in the in the hour and and you'll see him in other uh interviews in
02:13:07
the future too. He physically reacts sometimes his body movement is even more powerful than his words. When I you know
02:13:16
when you talk about you know when they heard the words from police that their their his daughter her sister that she
02:13:26
was dead. Oh my god how it hits him. And that was such a genuine >> so genuine >> um when I was getting ready to watch the
02:13:34
hour I was sort of preparing myself for grief. I thought I will be so saddened by this. But instead I found myself
02:13:46
impressed with their strength, their power. There was sort of a weight to that grief. Does that make any sense?
02:13:55
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. it becomes, you know, for for for those of us who work on these stories, uh, we
02:14:02
do so many of them and they're all so horrendous and there are those moments where you're sitting across from
02:14:09
somebody or looking at them in the edit room and you go, how real this is >> and that was so real. These these
02:14:19
families, you know, it's a it's it's heartbreaking. the Gonzalez's, you know, it's as loving a family as you will ever
02:14:27
meet. And right away they they started digging in and as Steve has said, we were not going to sit back and just wait
02:14:35
for justice. >> And when you realize what his daughter Olivia accomplished in her deep dive,
02:14:42
which we'll get into, >> but they they moved ahead instantly. They channeled that grief into action.
02:14:48
So, let's talk about a little bit the incredible amount of investigating that the families did, especially uh Kayle's
02:14:54
sister, Olivia. Uh she found the ride share driver who dropped Kaye off at the home that night, something that she says
02:15:01
even law enforcement had not discovered. I want to play a little sound. >> Olivia got into her sister's call log
02:15:08
and frantically started cold calling recent numbers. She says a friend told her that Kaye had been at the corner
02:15:15
club bar around 1:07 a.m. and later texted a rid share driver who Olivia managed to track down.
02:15:24
>> The ride share driver said around 1:45 Kaye had texted him requesting a ride from the Grub Truck, which is the local
02:15:33
mac and cheese food truck to take her back home to 1122 King. and she had with her another female.
02:15:41
>> Olivia then uncovered one of the most important leads in the case. The ride share driver told her about a camera
02:15:50
mounted on the grub truck. >> So I was able to look it up and um find Kaye on the video and I saw the girl
02:15:57
that she was with was Maddie. So at that point I knew Kaye and Maddie were together. They got into the car to go
02:16:04
home together and alone. The driver told her the exact time Kaye and Maddie were
02:16:09
dropped off at their house on King Road. 1:56 a.m. A timeline she says she confirmed before the police.
02:16:19
>> I immediately took it to the police officers. Here's her phone information. Here's the ride share driver's name. You
02:16:29
know what's interesting about that right there is that a the police had the wrong
02:16:36
time when they returned home. They by 11 minutes. So she was able to put that timeline on track which which is sort of
02:16:45
you know a domino effect. Yeah. They get the right time they get home they get this. They get that they get that. And
02:16:51
she was able to correct that right off the bat which got them mobilized and moving in the right direction. There is
02:16:57
still so much to get into here. So, when we get back, we're going to talk about Brian Coberger's trial, what the defense
02:17:03
might say to poke holes in the case, new evidence the prosecution might present,
02:17:08
and a possible link. Yeah, a link between Coberger and the victims that the Gonzalez think that they've
02:17:15
discovered on Instagram. Stick around. [Music] [Music] All right, welcome back everyone. The
02:17:30
trial of Brian Coberger had been set for October 2nd of 2023, but it was postponed because he waved his right to
02:17:38
a speedy trial. So, the question is, what do we think we can expect once this kicks off? Liza, as we know, there's a
02:17:46
der of information because of this gag order, but the defense has hinted at what its case will be. In a court
02:17:52
filing, they have come out and saying essentially what they're going to challenge in in the prosecution's case.
02:17:59
They're going to challenge one, the collection of the DNA. There were uh three male other DNA
02:18:10
samples found at the scene. two inside the house, one in glove outside. They still don't know who those belong to.
02:18:16
And the defense wants to know why. >> They say there's no connection, none at all, between Cobberger and any of the
02:18:24
four victims in that house. And if there's no connection, there's no motive, why would he have done something
02:18:31
like this? And then to me, one of the most intriguing ones, if it's true, we don't know any of this because we don't
02:18:39
it hasn't been litigated in in in hasn't been argued in in court. They claim that
02:18:45
there's absolutely now, mind you, this is one of the bloodiest crime scenes ever.
02:18:51
>> I mean, four people slaughtered with with a a military. >> We saw the blood on outside of the
02:18:58
house. I know you probably went back and forth as to whether or not you should, but I
02:19:02
think it really sort of gave you an idea of what went on. >> Yeah. And the family told us they want
02:19:09
the world to know the and this is the word they use, the ferocity of these murders. It's important uh the savagery
02:19:17
that went went into this, >> right? And as Peter said, that house was literally bleeding.
02:19:22
>> If the house could talk, what would it say? That's a wonderful question. But so
02:19:27
back to this intriguing uh statement that the defense has put out there. They say there's this bloody crime scene. We
02:19:35
know how easily it is to get a hair or a speck of blood. They say there's absolutely no DNA evidence of anyone
02:19:43
from that house or that house in his apartment, in his car, on his person. And if that's true, that is pretty
02:19:51
intriguing. Mhm. So, let's talk about a receipt from Walmart and a Dickiy's tag that was found at his apartment. Though,
02:19:59
we don't know what items were listed on the receipt. What does the Gonzalez family think this discovery really
02:20:06
means? >> The family has a has a u a theory. They believe that that he brought what what
02:20:12
they call a kill kit. That he had a bag that had a change of clothes in it. >> That's what they're calling it.
02:20:17
>> What what they're calling it. And they said that um and we did do not have this
02:20:21
in did not have time for this in the hour, but that during the the course of the search warrant that was done at
02:20:27
Coberger's house, they have a receipt and that the receipt according to the Gonzalez family is in evidence right
02:20:35
now. And it may suggest that he bought a clothing that perhaps that he wore during the course of this murder is what
02:20:42
they're suggesting. and that that clothing was not found at his apartment after when when the search was done. Um,
02:20:51
but even so, as Liza said, cuz we have done so many of these stories, the notion, you know, when you're using a
02:20:59
knife, for instance, and there's called Casta Away blood, you know, as you raise
02:21:03
it up and then back down, the hair, skin, blood, the notion that nothing at all was found in that car, nothing at
02:21:13
all is is really quite extraordinary. And they will, the defense is going to be playing that up. And remember they
02:21:20
say about his alibi for that night, Brian Coberger's. >> Yeah. >> He admits he was out driving late that
02:21:26
night. He was driving around. >> That's what he says. >> Mhm. >> That would explain the the cell phone in
02:21:32
the vicinity and also seeing that car on the, you know, surveillance cameras. Mhm.
02:21:38
>> And among the things, of course, they're going to talk about in in the prosecution of this case was the 12
02:21:44
visits prior to the murders in that neighborhood, but also there was a 13th visit the day of the murder once it
02:21:51
became publicized because this occurred, you know, in the early early morning hours. Well, later that day, prosecutors
02:21:57
say that Kobberger's according to the affidavit, his car was in that area again. But remember, he's studying
02:22:03
criminology. And I'm sure he their people would argue yes, he was fascinated by this horrible crime and as
02:22:10
a criminologist uh he he drove over as many people did into that area to see what was going on.
02:22:17
>> But then there's always the theory that the criminal returns to the scene of the
02:22:22
crime >> because they want to see what's going on and they want to sort of get the last
02:22:26
laugh. Haha, I got away with this. Look at everybody running around. Look at everybody. Right.
02:22:31
>> Yeah. Well, one theory that is out there that the Gonzalez family has come to
02:22:37
believe is the notion that Brian Coberger may have been inside that house prior to the day of the murders. And
02:22:46
they base that on the fact that the coroner in the case told them that the asalent entered the house and the first
02:22:55
people that were attacked were on the third floor of the house. There were others on the second floor. And that
02:23:01
suggested to the Gonzalez that the killer knew to go to the third floor. How would he know that if he hadn't been
02:23:09
in the house before? >> So this is the family's filling in the blanks though. >> This is some information. They're trying
02:23:16
to explain it, >> right? That is what that we have not had any investigator tell us this. Of
02:23:21
course, there's this gag order and we have not been able to verify that with any investigator because of the gag
02:23:27
order. But the Gonzalez's uh mom and dad, Christy and Steve, believe that he may have been in that house prior to the
02:23:37
murders. >> When you really think about this whole thing, how does this person in this
02:23:44
house that has three floors know where to go and how to do it and kill so so rapidly? As one of our people said, he's
02:23:51
a student. He's not an assassin, >> right? But it seemed like he was so efficient, which is, I think, one of the
02:23:58
reasons why the Consolves believe he had to know where he was going when he got in there.
02:24:03
>> He had to know who he was after and what he planned to do. >> Mhm. >> Now, Christy Gonzalez says
02:24:10
>> she thinks he went in to kill one, >> but he killed four. >> So, that he was caught off guard by the
02:24:18
fact that there were two people in the first bedroom. >> Exactly. And there was also the bit about Kayle's
02:24:23
dog, right? >> Uh Kaylee slept with that dog every night. Uh and uh that was just that was
02:24:30
their routine. And when officials uh got to the house uh discovered the uh that horrible scene, the dog was in a
02:24:39
separate bedroom by its cell. And so that was just that just raised questions with the Gonzalez that um did he know
02:24:48
there was a dog? Had he seen a dog in a visit? Had he actually even maybe given the dog a treat where it wouldn't bark
02:24:57
at him? >> And did he put the dog in that room? It's just something that the Gonzalez uh
02:25:05
have focused on and raised with us. So, we've been talking a lot about the different theories about how Kobberger
02:25:10
may have committed these murders, but what is also new in this hour is the Gonzalez discovered what they think is a
02:25:18
possible connection between him and the victims. >> So, the the the the Gonzalez family
02:25:25
heard the name Brian Coberger. Olivia Googles his name >> and they end up finding this Instagram
02:25:32
account that the family uh believes was a genuine one. I want to play a little sound from the hour about the connection
02:25:41
that the family feels might be there. >> You would go to Mattie's Instagram account and look at her pictures and he
02:25:49
liked them. Brian's name was under a lot of Mattie's pictures like that picture and that picture and that picture and
02:25:54
that picture. So he was actively looking at the Instagram account >> and the importance of that is what
02:26:02
>> just digital evidence that this particular account had some type of connection with the with the victims.
02:26:08
>> And if that's true that's huge because what it does is it establishes a relationship a connection between
02:26:16
Kobberger and the victims at least two of the victims. and the defense is saying there's no
02:26:24
connection. So, which is true. >> That will be a very important point to be made at trial.
02:26:30
>> As has been said by one of our experts in the hour, if there's no connection,
02:26:34
there's no motive. Everyone who watches 48 hours who's listening to this right now knows you don't have to have a
02:26:40
motive. Prosecutors will tell you all the time you don't have to. And serial killers, you know, Ted Bundy didn't have
02:26:46
to have a motive for each of his killings. He just had a satisfaction in in killing someone. And the Gonzalez
02:26:53
believe that that uh Coberger, who again is accused of this, not convicted of anything as as yet of course that he did
02:27:02
this in their opinion simply to kill, to murder, to experience that rush. >> Mhm.
02:27:09
>> They do it for pleasure. That's one one of the theories by our criminologist expert who said that a crime like this
02:27:20
seems to be done by somebody the viciousness of it uh by somebody who takes pleasure in it um or has a sense
02:27:27
of arousal from it. >> Mhm. Did you reach out to the Coberger family? >> Yes, we've done that many times and um
02:27:33
we're still hoping that they will change their mind and and talk about Brian. Um,
02:27:39
and we hope that happens. >> What I'm hearing, uh, is that the Coberger family does not believe he did
02:27:47
it. But there there is something very very interesting that Steve Consalus uh, was very clear about that he's going
02:27:54
into this trial with an open mind that he he thinks they think that it looks like Coberger
02:28:04
did it. However, maybe he didn't. and they have uh an open mind about that. Well, Steve has an open mind about that.
02:28:13
>> I was surprised by that because that is typically not something that you hear.
02:28:18
>> Um is after someone's been arrested, usually families of the victims are convinced usually that you know that's
02:28:26
the right guy. >> Yeah. Yeah. And uh he has an open mind and we as journalists also have to have
02:28:33
an open mind. >> Yeah. uh because the the facts of the case are being held so tightly so closely there's
02:28:41
a lot we don't know and we have to remember that and uh that's another that was another challenge in doing this hour
02:28:48
I think right Peter >> yeah and uh absolutely and Coberger has said through an attorney when he was
02:28:54
arrested in Pennsylvania he looks forward to his exoneration >> there were others though that you
02:28:59
reached out to that also didn't want to talk uh Mattie Mogan's family her parents They did not speak to you for
02:29:05
this episode. >> Mattie Mogan. Um Maddie was a only child of of of her parents and the they have
02:29:14
spoken of course at these memorial uh gettogethers and things. But it is so devastating. Mhm.
02:29:22
>> And you look at her face, you look at Mattiey's face, and you see this this bright and she's intelligent, this
02:29:30
big-hearted woman with everything in front of her. Uh, and they invested everything and all their love and wisdom
02:29:38
in this one child and that child is taken from them under these circumstances. Um, we understand
02:29:45
>> Ethan Chapen's uh family um who obviously are suffering enormous loss. They have chosen to to not do an
02:29:54
interview with uh 48 hours for this. Perhaps one day, you know, they'll want to talk, but we completely understand uh
02:30:01
that they don't want to and and of course we respect that. Well, what a moving episode for the
02:30:09
first one of this season of 48 hours and for the first postmortem podcast. I really want to thank you, Peter and
02:30:16
Liza, for being here. >> Thank you, Anmarie. It's our honor to tell this story. It's so profound.
02:30:22
>> Absolutely. It is. It's touched all of us. Thank you, Amarie. >> Be sure to join us next Tuesday for
02:30:29
another postmortem. Watch 48 hours, Saturdays, 10 9 central on CBS. and also streaming on Paramount Plus. And be sure
02:30:37
to follow 48 hours wherever you get your podcast. You can also listen adree on the Amazon Music or Wonder app.
02:30:47
[Music]