00:00:00
[Music] the uh master bedroom. >> It was the most horrific, depraved murder I've ever seen as the district
00:00:18
attorney in this county. When you think about the terror that these two people just asleep in their
00:00:26
own bed where we all feel the most secure and you wake up to this horror movie happening to you.
00:00:42
>> Happy birthday. Happy birthday to you. >> My mom was my best friend. I never remember a day that I didn't speak with
00:00:57
her or giggle with her. She was my world. She had been single for a while and she
00:01:10
had decided that she was ready to settle down. Well, it wasn't a couple of months
00:01:15
and my mother called me and reported to me that she had met a man and his name was Chip Northup
00:01:23
and he was so smart and brilliant and they were like Kermit the Frog and Miss Piggy meeting over the pews at the
00:01:32
Unitarian Church and from that moment they were inseparable. She didn't want to be away from Chip
00:01:44
and and she went with Chip. They went together in their home in their bed. [Music]
00:01:51
If you talk to many of the officers, they'll say that what an impact this case has had on them. Just going to the
00:01:57
crime scene and seeing how horrific the the torture inflicted on these two humans, Chip and Claudia, really was. I
00:02:06
was certain that they were going to find some forensic evidence in the crime scene. A fingerprint, DNA, um, shoe
00:02:14
prints, uh, something. They found nothing. >> How soon did you hear that there was no
00:02:20
evidence that this looked like the perfect crime? >> Well, I think we were 2 months into it.
00:02:26
>> Yeah. We brought 25 FBI agents, experienced task force officers from other areas,
00:02:34
and we really flooded that neighborhood. >> We thought it had to be somebody close
00:02:40
to Chip and Claudia. Something that um that happened where there was a disagreement, some family dispute um
00:02:46
because it did appear to be so personal. >> It was a very scary time because nobody
00:02:51
knew who had done it. >> Davis police emergency. >> Oh yeah. Um, uh, can this be anonymous?
00:03:01
>> What are you reporting? >> Uh, double homicides. >> When this tip came in, um, it seemed
00:03:08
really strange. It didn't seem to match what any of us had thought. >> The reason why I want to remain
00:03:14
anonymous is cuz if my mom if my mom finds out, she will send me to military school.
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>> Dumbfounded. >> We were dumbfounded. How do you wrap your mind around a 15-year-old killer?
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[Music] [Music] 48 Hours: Portrait of the Killer. Reported by Aaron Morardi. [Music]
00:04:12
Take a ride through Davis, California, and you'll see why the college town has been named one of this country's best
00:04:19
places to live, and why Claudia Mop Ben moved here. >> She loved living in college communities,
00:04:27
so she loved being around all the young people and all the new ideas. Victoria Herd says Davis was one of
00:04:34
California's safest cities when her mother first arrived in 1995 and started attending services at this
00:04:43
Unitarian church, hoping to meet her third husband. She had been a spiritual traveler through many different
00:04:52
religions and denominations and she just had fallen in love with the Unitarian Church. So she said to me, "My husband
00:05:00
is at the Unitarian Church." Claudia soon met Oliver Chip Northup, one of the church's founders. Well known for his
00:05:10
social activism, Northup was a World War II veteran and a prominent attorney. Like Claudia, Chip had been married
00:05:18
several times, but according to his firstborn daughter, Mary, the couple's families blended easily.
00:05:27
>> Claudia had that ability to make every person that she spent time with feel that special so that they would come
00:05:35
away and say, "She's my best friend." >> Both Chip and Claudia's families were thrilled when the couple decided to
00:05:43
marry in 1996. I would think then the church was filled with the family. >> It was packed.
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>> It was filled. >> Did you two ever worry about their safety? >> No. Absolutely not.
00:05:56
>> No. >> No. They had an idyllic life. They had so many loved ones around them. They had
00:06:02
so many great neighbors. [Music] They lived in Davis. Claudia and Chip had been married for 17
00:06:10
years when on the night of Saturday, April 13th, 2013, they said good night to each other for
00:06:18
the very last time. The next morning at church, the couple was noticeably absent.
00:06:26
>> I called and I called his number and I called Claudia's number and they both went to voicemail.
00:06:34
Chip was in a local folk band when he didn't show up for a gig that afternoon. Chip's son, Robert, and a grandson paid
00:06:43
a visit to Chip in Claudia's condo. >> And rang the doorbell, and no one answered. Everything I saw indicated
00:06:49
they were out of town. >> Robert had a key, but chose not to use it. Later that evening, Claudia's
00:06:57
stepdaughter, Laura, also rang the bell. When there was no answer, she went around back and saw this open window
00:07:05
with its screen slashed. One looked through the bedroom window and Laura knew that something awful had
00:07:13
happened. She saw blood stains. She saw enough that she made a call to get other people
00:07:22
over there. The next morning, there's 12 missed calls from my sister. She said, "There's been a breakin
00:07:34
and there are two dead bodies in the house." And then I lost it. My brain couldn't
00:07:42
process that. Victoria had to call her daughter Sarah and break the news. But all the police would share is that
00:07:51
Claudia and Chip had been stabbed multiple times. >> I was like, "Multiple? What does
00:07:57
multiple mean?" You know, is there a certain number that we should know? And the coroner said,
00:08:02
>> "All I can tell you is that multiple means more than 12." >> It would be just over a year before they
00:08:10
learned that Chip had 61 stab wounds. Claudia had 67. That's 128 stab wounds. Has anybody even had the strength to do
00:08:23
that? And and why would somebody want to do that? But that wasn't even the worst of it.
00:08:32
Davis Police Lieutenant Paul Doris says the killer had experimented with the bodies and had placed a cell phone into
00:08:40
Claudia's abdomen and a drinking glass into Chip's stomach. We thought that well maybe there's some type of meaning
00:08:48
to it, you know, but we were trying to latch on to every detail we could to help us with this case the office.
00:08:54
>> But there was little to latch on to. There was no physical evidence, not even
00:08:59
a shoe print. >> The place isn't ransacked. There's no valuables missing. Clearly, this is not
00:09:06
a burglary that was interrupted. Former special agent Chris Campion says that even the FBI profilers were
00:09:14
stumped. Unsure if they were dealing with one killer or more or if the open window was even the point of entry.
00:09:22
>> Appears that the screen is cut through on the edges. I think they had at this
00:09:26
point developed a story that somebody with the key had done it and that they'd cut this hole in the screen to divert
00:09:32
attention >> to make it look like >> when you if you come up with that theory then you have to look at family members
00:09:40
FBI agents had you know called us all individually and you know you could tell that they were doing everything in their
00:09:45
power to get answers but there was nothing >> until they got to Chip's son Robert and
00:09:52
his two sons Oliver and Tony Oliver suffers from schizophrenia. >> We lived in the same town, not very far
00:09:59
away. It would have not have been logistically difficult for one of us to have gone over there and done that.
00:10:06
>> Robert also had that key to the condo. >> Oliver, did you know that the police
00:10:11
were looking at you and your brother? >> Well, yeah. They asked us to come in for
00:10:16
questioning and I agreed. >> That first day it was about 8 hours of questioning. The next day it was another
00:10:23
six. It was just day after day, long hours of questioning. >> Mhm. >> And u and I kept thinking, well, my
00:10:30
father would would want us to cooperate in every way >> without a lawyer. Were you scared?
00:10:36
>> Very nervous. >> And with good reason. When police searched Robert's home, they found the
00:10:43
kind of evidence that gets people convicted. First, carpeting that had been steam cleaned on the day of the
00:10:50
murders. Yeah, it was bad timing. I didn't I didn't anticipate that that would be the same weekend my father got
00:10:56
murdered. It looked like I was covering up removing evidence. >> Investigators also found a very
00:11:04
disturbing drawing by Tony. It was the image of a man with a knife standing over two children in a bed.
00:11:13
>> The only thing I can say is that the three of them, they're not violent. If if something had clicked and turned them
00:11:20
violent, it would never have been for these two people. >> Did either one of you think that was
00:11:25
possible? >> No. Never. >> Never. Not for a second. Because Chip spent so much time with those boys.
00:11:32
Those boys adored him. >> The family spent thousands of dollars hiring an attorney for Tony and
00:11:41
repairing all the damage done by investigators. Then they cut out the carpet. They took out some of the
00:11:47
plumbing fixtures looking for things that might have been put in the drain. And they also took out a little bit of
00:11:52
flooring. >> The Northup family, Tony in particular, felt persecuted. And even though his
00:11:59
name was eventually cleared, Tony still felt that neighbors had their doubts about him. 3 years after the murders, he
00:12:08
would commit suicide. Oliver got this tattoo in memory of him. >> You've gone through a lot, haven't you?
00:12:17
>> Yeah, I think so. >> 2 months after the murders, police got this call. >> What are you calling to report, sir?
00:12:28
>> Um, the double homicide that happened in Naple this year. >> What can you tell me about that?
00:12:33
>> Everything, actually. A 17-year-old Davis High School student called to say he knew who killed that
00:12:41
couple. It was his best friend, >> Daniel Marsh. >> Daniel Marsh. >> Yeah, Daniel Marsh or Dan Marsh.
00:12:50
>> Daniel Marsh was a name that Yolo County District Attorney Jeff Risk had heard
00:12:55
years earlier, but not in connection with a crime. >> All of a sudden, he passed out and sort
00:13:02
of flew back in. At the time he was viewed as a young hero. He had saved his his father's life,
00:13:09
>> right? He was the hero of the day. >> At 10, Marsh was given an American Red Cross heroes award after using CPR to
00:13:18
save his father from a heart attack. >> I remember thinking at that time, this kid's going places.
00:13:26
>> It didn't seem possible. Could that young hero really have grown up to be the vicious killer investigators were
00:13:34
hunting for? [Music] When you first saw Daniel Marsh, what was your reaction? >> Total shock that a a boy was responsible
00:14:04
for these crimes. No one imagined, says District Attorney Jeff Risig, that the depraved killer of Chip Northup and his
00:14:12
wife Claudia might turn out to be a 15-year-old teenager. And certainly not this teenager who had once saved a life,
00:14:22
his father's, Bill Marsh. >> This is Daniel in 2009. >> At the time of the murders, Bill Marsh
00:14:30
lived next door to Claudia and Chip. And I chose that location because it was in
00:14:34
walking distance of their mothers. >> That's where Daniel lived at his mother Sherry's house. And it's where he was
00:14:42
staying on the night of the murders. The day the bodies were discovered, Bill Marsh was home recovering from back
00:14:49
surgery when police showed up at his door. >> Knock knock knock on the door. Hi, I'm
00:14:54
so and so of the police. Um, do you know Chip and his wife? I said, "No, I don't
00:15:01
know anybody. And I just moved in. >> About 2 weeks after the murders, Bill Marsh says he could no longer afford the
00:15:08
rent and moved out. >> Remember very vividly one of the neighbors came up and said, "Hey, um, I
00:15:15
don't know if this is relevant or not, but several days after the murder, the guy in that house moved out." And we
00:15:22
didn't think much about it at that time. And investigators might never have focused on Daniel Marsh if not for that
00:15:30
phone call from 17-year-old Alvaro Garab 2 months after the crime accusing his best friend of murder.
00:15:38
>> Well, he talked about killing people a lot. I didn't really take it seriously
00:15:42
until well killed someone. >> So, help me understand that this was your best friend.
00:15:47
>> I know. Uh I don't know if I can help you understand that. Alvaro says he laughs when nervous. But
00:15:58
back then, investigators took him very seriously. He seemed to know way too much about the murders. Gory details
00:16:07
known only to a handful of investigators and the killer. He cut both of them open.
00:16:15
It's just to see the insides or something. And then uh he went to the woman, I think, and he uh he wanted to know how
00:16:22
an eye looked like. So he tried taking it out with a knife, but he said it was really hard, so he couldn't do it.
00:16:29
>> Gabbe was interviewed twice, leaving investigators wondering if he was the killer.
00:16:35
>> Why did it take you until now to speak to us? >> Because I don't know, actually. I was
00:16:45
afraid. Alvaro says he finally came forward because Daniel had threatened to kill again. Do you think your life was
00:16:53
at risk? >> Oh, yeah. Mine, my families, my friends. >> On June 17th, 2013, investigators asked
00:17:01
the high school resource officer to bring Daniel Marsh in for questioning. >> Daniel,
00:17:07
>> and he seemed more than happy to talk. It was now up to Davis detective Ariel
00:17:13
Paneda and FBI special agent Chris Campion to get to the truth. >> Did he seem worried about talking to you
00:17:21
at all? >> No, certainly not at the beginning. I think he figured he could talk his way
00:17:25
through it. >> What do you know, Dave? >> I just know that somebody broke into this old couple's
00:17:33
house and stabbed them, killed them. Investigators would spend the next three hours learning all they could about
00:17:42
Daniel, looking for a way in. >> I was that loner kid that you know how there's always that one outcast.
00:17:49
Dad and mom split when you were pretty young. >> Yeah. And then mom basically left, abandoned
00:17:59
you, your family is >> Yeah. For like 3 or 4 months. Daniel's mother ended her marriage after having
00:18:06
an affair with a woman, Daniel's kindergarten teacher, which enraged the 10-year-old.
00:18:12
>> He hated her. He would tell me that I know this woman was involved in my parents' divorce, and I just want to
00:18:20
like strangle her to death. >> Daniel even tried taking his anger out on himself.
00:18:27
>> I used to like harm myself. >> I see a scar too there. Yeah. >> Yeah. As near as I understood the
00:18:33
cutting phenomenon, it was people who just kind of have this flat, depressed, kind of dark outlook on life. And the
00:18:41
cutting actually brings that sense of living. >> Campion says Daniel was willing to do
00:18:48
anything to feel something, including starving himself. All the pain and depression and anger just like
00:19:02
I internalized it and I directed it towards myself. >> Daniel was voluntarily committed to an
00:19:08
eating disorder clinic for 25 days. And while his anorexia seems to have passed,
00:19:14
Alvaro says Daniel's anger continued to consume him. He would tell me a lot about suicide.
00:19:23
>> And how old were the two of you? When was it? >> Oh man, I think 14. >> I've attempted it four times in my life.
00:19:31
>> It seems there were several therapists and doctors who intervened, trying numerous medications.
00:19:38
And then in mid December 2012, Daniel made a stunning admission, telling a school counselor that he fantasized
00:19:46
about killing people. She was so concerned they brought the police to the school.
00:19:53
>> Marsh was shortly hospitalized, but upon release things got worse. Did he talk
00:19:59
about Kelly? >> He like brought it up more. He was just like, I wish that person would die.
00:20:04
>> But in his police interview, Daniel was denying it all, including the murders of
00:20:10
Claudia and Chip. >> I don't want to hurt people. Then after 3 hours and 38 minutes of questioning,
00:20:18
the facade finally began to crumble. And >> why the heck would you just sit here and
00:20:23
baldfaced lie to Ariel and me? >> I am. You guys are threatening me with what? The truth. Getting arrested for
00:20:34
two murders. I am so scared right now. Of course, I'm going to do anything I can to try and
00:20:41
say that I didn't do this. >> That was um the first sign that he was getting over that wall, that he was
00:20:48
getting ready to talk to us about what really happened. >> If you want to help me, then don't ruin
00:20:53
my life. If anything, send me to the psychiatric hospital. >> But Chris, were you really prepared for
00:21:02
what he told you next? >> Um, no. Every time I look at someone in my mind, I see
00:21:13
flashes of images of me killing them. [Music] For more than three hours, Daniel Marsh
00:21:35
insisted he knew nothing about the murders of Claudia Mopin and Chip Northup. But he began to reveal more and
00:21:43
more about himself to agent Chris Campion. >> And all this time I thought about and
00:21:48
plotted about killing the woman that my mother left my father for. What was your
00:21:53
plan? Just gonna slaughter her throat. Daniel says that was when he began to fantasize about killing people.
00:22:01
Eventually, he became obsessed with something called gore porn and a website devoted to it.
00:22:09
>> I remember just like walking into his room and he was like, "Dude, check this
00:22:12
out." And it's like literally people getting beheaded. >> And how did he react when he was
00:22:16
watching those videos? >> He just sat there, I think, like fascinated by it. But it's one thing to
00:22:23
be fascinated and another to actually take a life. >> Well, you strangled a cat in the street.
00:22:32
And then I was like, "Okay, well, why'd you do that?" It's like, "Well, I just wanted to do that. It just I hated that
00:22:37
cat's house." >> In the interview room, investigators still hadn't heard Daniel confess to
00:22:43
killing Chip and Claudia and pressed on. >> When was the first time you started thinking about killing these people down
00:22:49
the street? Yeah, I really am. I didn't. >> Now you start thinking about it. >> That night I just I couldn't take it
00:22:59
anymore. I had to do it. I lost control. There it was. The opening that investigator Campion had been hoping
00:23:10
for. Daniel admitted that he had been hunting for someone, anyone, to kill that night when he came upon Chip and
00:23:19
Claudia's open living room window. >> I got a hole in the screen, climbed in through the back, went to their bedroom.
00:23:29
I opened the door, and I just kind of stood over their bed watching them sleep for a few minutes.
00:23:36
My body was trembling. I was nervous but excited and exhilarated. I was actually going to do
00:23:46
it. I was there. It's finally happening. >> Without any outward emotion, Daniel described how he repeatedly stabbed
00:23:56
Claudia and Chip. What you were about to hear is graphic, but these disturbing details would
00:24:04
become key evidence in a family's battle for justice. I cut open most of their torsos around
00:24:13
here. And in the woman, I put a phone inside of her and I put a cup inside the guy.
00:24:22
>> Daniel said it was all part of his plan to confuse investigators and get away
00:24:27
with murder. He also taped the bottom of his shoes so he wouldn't leave prints and wore a ski mask and gloves so as not
00:24:37
to leave behind DNA or fingerprints. But hidden by Daniel in his mother's house.
00:24:44
Investigators found all the evidence they needed. Bloody clothing and the knife used to kill Chip and Claudia.
00:24:52
>> Did you wash blood off of it or did um that had been fairly covered? And I kept it as a souvenir.
00:25:01
>> A souvenir to forever remember how much he enjoyed taking two lives. I'm not going to lie, it felt
00:25:10
amazing. >> In fact, records show that Daniel was doing so much better in school. He was
00:25:18
named student of the month after the high of the murders. It was pure happiness and adrenaline and
00:25:28
dopamine just all of it rushing over me kind of >> after Daniel made a full confession.
00:25:37
Chris Campion did something unusual. >> You um mentioned that pretty much everybody you meet you have thoughts
00:25:45
about killing them and how you would kill them. >> Yeah. >> So, how would you kill me?
00:25:50
There's a lot of ways. Um, choking you to death with your tie. >> Okay. Uh, beating your face into the
00:25:58
mirror until it broke and using the glass to cut your arteries. Uh, gouging your eyes out and just smashing your
00:26:04
face into the wall. Nothing personal. >> Nothing personal. >> And I said I didn't take it personally
00:26:13
because I didn't. That's his fantasy life. I mean, Chris, do you believe that Daniel Marsh was a serial killer in
00:26:21
training? >> Absolutely. Abs, without a doubt. He actually talked about how he was going
00:26:26
to take his next victim. >> He was lurking in the streets of Davis at night with a baseball bat, intending
00:26:35
to beat to death some poor passer by. cuz I don't feel sympathy for other people
00:26:42
at all. Don't feel empathy for them. >> This was not the act of a broken child who had a rough life. This was the act
00:26:53
of somebody who, in my mind, is just evil. >> Daniel was immediately arrested and
00:27:00
charged with the murders of Chip Northup and Claudia Mopin. Was there any question whether he would be charged as
00:27:07
an adult and be tried in an adult court >> at the time? No. Because of the nature
00:27:13
of the crime, uh, he had to be tried in adult court. >> With Marsh facing life in prison, two
00:27:21
top public defenders were assigned to his case. Then Marsh plead not guilty by reason of insanity, something Chris
00:27:30
Campion had anticipated. That's why I'd spent some time with him. I wanted to make clear that he's not somebody who
00:27:38
had had a break with reality. Um, somebody who heard voices or had, you know, voices in his head telling him to
00:27:44
do things. >> Did you ever hear any voices talking to you? >> He wasn't anywhere close, in my opinion,
00:27:50
to legally insane. >> Even psychiatrist Dr. Matthew Sullier, who was hired by the defense, agreed
00:27:59
that Daniel was sane, even though when they met, Daniel threatened to kill him. >> I didn't find him to be insane. I found
00:28:08
him to be mentally ill, but responsible for his crimes. And I think my understanding is that they went ahead
00:28:14
and continued to pursue a defense of insanity. without Sulier as their expert witness.
00:28:23
A year after the murders, Daniel Marsh went on trial. The defense argued that the anti-depressant drugs given to
00:28:30
Daniel for his anorexia and suicide attempts had caused a temporary insanity. >> Zolaf made me do it.
00:28:39
>> Deputy District Attorney Amanda Zambour wasn't having it. But when you actually
00:28:44
looked at the medical records, he was having these thoughts and fantasies before he was ever on Zoloft.
00:28:50
>> Bill, I know that you believe that a lot of your son's problems are connected to
00:28:54
the medications he was taking, but he had fantasies about killing before he started on the drugs. He killed animals
00:29:01
before he started on these drugs. >> Yes. See, I don't know that that's true. There's a whole series of confessions by
00:29:08
people who have been on these drugs that have false memories. uh they believe certain things happened that never did.
00:29:15
>> The question now was would the jury agree? Would they find Daniel Marsh insane and decide a psychiatric hospital
00:29:25
was more appropriate than prison? >> Were you more nervous about that? >> Yes. The immediate thought is that
00:29:32
somebody would have to be insane to do something like this. On September 26th, 2014, the jury
00:29:50
deliberated for just under 2 hours before finding Daniel Marsh guilty of firstdegree murder.
00:29:58
They also found Marsh sane, allowing the judge to sentence him to the maximum, 52
00:30:06
years to life. >> We are very, very pleased with the verdict for me. We feel justice.
00:30:15
>> We all exhaled. >> Yeah. >> I mean, that was great. But it wasn't over yet, was it?
00:30:21
>> It wasn't over, Aaron. No, it wasn't over. That's because two years later, California voters passed Prop 57 and
00:30:32
gave Daniel Marsh a second chance. You'll recall that in this case, District Attorney Rice made the decision
00:30:40
to try Daniel Marsh as an adult. But under the new law, that decision would now have to be made by a juvenile court
00:30:48
judge. >> How do you call a family that sat through an entire trial? How do you call
00:30:55
them up and say, "Sorry, you have to come back because there's a chance he may end up being pushed back to juvenile
00:31:03
court where he would be potentially released at the age of 25." >> A judge would now listen to evidence and
00:31:10
decide if Daniel Marsh should have been tried as a juvenile. If so, the state might be forced to set Marsh free on his
00:31:19
25th birthday. He's 21 now. So in about 3 and a half, four years, he would be out with no
00:31:27
supervision, no parole. He would just be free. I went into PTSD immediately. And
00:31:33
I said, "I I can't do this. I can't do this. I'm moving forward." But before a hearing date could even be
00:31:42
set, >> a striking video appeared online. Hurt people hurt people. >> Through a prison rehabilitation program,
00:31:52
Daniel Marsh took center stage in his very own TEDex talk. >> The secret down deep, deep down,
00:32:00
>> declaring that he's reformed and deserves a second chance. >> I came to realize that there are no such
00:32:07
things as evil people in this world, >> only damaged people. And I'm watching it
00:32:15
like a deer in the headlights. You know, I can't pull my eyes away. >> If I kept allowing myself to be trapped
00:32:21
by my emotions and to be disconnected. >> How dare you? Was all I could say to the
00:32:28
screen. >> March also took the opportunity to raise a shocking new claim that he was the
00:32:36
victim here. >> When I was a child, I was sexually abused multiple times by two different
00:32:42
people. But he wouldn't say by whom and never even told his best friend. >> I don't recall anything like that.
00:32:50
>> He never talked about being sexually abused. >> He was asked routinely about trauma and
00:32:57
abuse and denied it every time. >> I believe he wouldn't say it if it wasn't true.
00:33:02
>> Bill Marsh stands by his son. >> But why wouldn't he have said it earlier? >> Knowing Daniel, he probably feels he has
00:33:10
some sort of loyalty. I felt alone and ashamed and disgusting. >> You don't believe he was ever abused?
00:33:20
>> I don't. Um I think it's a ploy to to get sympathy. Now >> embrace our humanity.
00:33:33
>> We knew our first and most important thing to do was to get the video taken down.
00:33:36
>> Right. Claudia Mopin's granddaughter Sarah took on the challenge >> and within 48 hours it was gone. It was
00:33:44
taken down off of YouTube. >> A small victory, but nothing compared to the battle ahead to keep Daniel Marsh
00:33:52
behind bars. >> All right. >> Marsh's fate was now in the hands of family court judge Samuel McAdam. Life
00:34:01
in prison or possibly just four more years. Let's go on the record in the matter of Daniel William Marsh.
00:34:10
>> Marsh's original defense team returned to represent him. Attorney Andra Pelino
00:34:17
>> and I think the court will be overwhelmed by the changes that he has made in a very short amount of time.
00:34:24
>> Remember Dr. Matthew Sulier, the psychiatrist who Daniel Marsh had threatened to kill? He recently
00:34:31
interviewed Marsh again and took the stand this time and said he thought Marsh had changed. There were distinct
00:34:40
differences in his maturity, his empathy, his insight into himself, his sense of responsibility.
00:34:47
>> I don't think he's worth throwing away in my opinion. >> He's killed two people,
00:34:53
>> right? >> I mean, isn't it possible that's the kind of person who just can't be saved?
00:34:59
I don't believe that. I don't believe that at all. >> Just when everyone thought the defense
00:35:04
was going to rest its case, the courtroom was stunned. Daniel Marsh had decided to take his fate into his own
00:35:13
hands. [Music] The families of Chip and Claudia were horrified when a 21-year-old Daniel
00:35:36
Marsh took the stand to plead for his freedom. >> And I stared at him the entire time.
00:35:43
>> I was a really damaged, screwed up, sick kid. Maybe that's still how I come across. And I really hope that's not the
00:35:51
case. Uh >> to me, he was doing everything in his power to say the things that would help
00:35:56
him in his case. >> I mean, it's night and day. You know, I no longer struggle with mental illness.
00:36:03
I've worked through the vast majority of my my anger and hate. I I'm not who I used to be.
00:36:12
>> While trying to convince the judge, Marsh also took the opportunity to address his victim's families for the
00:36:19
first time. I'm sorry I took them away from you. I can't even bring myself to look at you.
00:36:27
>> I think he didn't look cuz he realized he couldn't feain empathy. It >> It's hard for me to even
00:36:35
wrap my mind around how I could have done something that awful. And I guess I've just been afraid to actually
00:36:42
face that. But before Judge McAdam would decide if Marsh should be treated like a juvenile
00:36:49
and receive a lighter sentence, he asked the prosecution to call an expert on psychopaths.
00:36:55
>> Dr. Logan, good morning. >> Forensic psychologist Matthew Logan. >> Some of the traits are glib, superficial
00:37:02
charm, pathological lying, lack of responsibility, uh inability to feel remorse. While
00:37:10
Logan never met Marsh, he did examine his records. I spoke to Dr. Logan via FaceTime. Is Daniel Marsh a psychopath?
00:37:19
>> In my view, yes. >> After his conviction, Marsh scored a whopping 35.8 out of 40 on the widely
00:37:30
used psychopathy checklist, one of the highest scores Dr. Logan has ever seen. means it's generally accepted as the
00:37:38
gold standard for for uh diagnosing psychopathy. >> Do you believe that Daniel Marsh could
00:37:44
kill again and will kill again? >> I would say it's more likely than not that he would kill again.
00:37:49
>> And Dr. Logan says Marsh's testimony did nothing to convince him otherwise. >> I've interviewed hundreds of psychopaths
00:37:57
and they've all seen the light. And one of the things that that is very typical of the psychopath is that ability to con
00:38:05
and manipulate. >> The twoe hearing culminated on October 24th, 2018 when a packed courtroom
00:38:15
convened to hear the judge's decision on Daniel Marsh's fate. >> Let's go on the record in the matter of
00:38:22
Daniel William Marsh. >> Judge McAdam first sent jitters throughout the courtroom. Marsh is
00:38:28
coping well with being incarcerated. He is not exhibiting the signs of a serious
00:38:32
mental illness. >> He said he found the testimony of Marsh to be credible, but in the end concluded
00:38:39
that Marsh's release just wasn't a chance worth taking. Marsh's original sentence would stand.
00:38:47
>> The defendant is remanded to state prison to serve the balance of an indeterminate life sentence with a
00:38:53
minimum of 52 years. You could kind of feel the relief in the courtroom when the judge read his final
00:39:05
decision from the family members. So relieved. >> I went outside and was like, "Okay, I
00:39:14
need to take a deep breath." And I could not catch my breath. And I still feel that way. Mhm.
00:39:21
>> I still feel that it's not over >> because it's not. In September 2018, California Governor Jerry Brown signed a
00:39:34
new law known as SB1391, which makes it impossible to ever try a 15-year-old offender as an adult, even
00:39:45
one like Daniel Marsh. So what 1391 says is that the DAs can never ever prosecute
00:39:55
a juvenile that's 14 or 15 years old as an adult. No matter how heinous the crime, no matter what torture they
00:40:03
inflicted, >> Marsha's lawyers have vowed to do what they can to have Daniel retroactively
00:40:10
included under that new law. >> We're going to fight that every step of the way. we might lose. And if we do,
00:40:18
Daniel Marsh will come back to our county and he will be sentenced as a juvenile where he would be eligible for
00:40:24
release at 25. If that happens, the state will have to argue every 2 years to keep Marsh behind
00:40:34
bars, which means a still grieving family may never fully heal. We just went through this entire year
00:40:55
having to rehash everything. It was literally like being in the trial all over again and even more so because
00:41:04
I had to hear him. >> It retraumatizes me every time. >> Special Agent Chris Campion is just as
00:41:12
traumatized at the idea of Marsh ever being set free. Daniel Marsh is in the top three of the people I'm most scared
00:41:22
of. >> What was your plan? It's going to [ __ ] through. >> Cuz he's got that combination of being a
00:41:28
psychopath and this this deep dark desire for murder and gore and bloodshed. It's
00:41:37
>> most exhilarating, enjoyable feeling I've ever felt. >> And it doesn't go away. It just doesn't
00:41:47
[Music] [Music]