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[Music] on November 25th 2020 it was the day before Thanksgiving I received a phone call
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shortly after 4:00 from the Mount Morris police chief and he asked me kind of frantically is anybody my house and I
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said my daughter Melissa there is and said there's a fire and it's bad my sister Melissa she was 9 months
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pregnant about to have a baby in 2 days what do you remember from November 25th 2020 it was my 17th birthday my
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birthday is November 25th me and my mom were at a store we're picking out a cake
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and we finally got home and my brother Carl frantically is calling my mom have you heard from Melissa have you heard
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from Melissa and we're like no why Carl said the neighbor called and he said the
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house is on fire so at that point my heart just sank because we were not sure if Melissa was
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home or not I just wanted them both to be okay and all I could think was please just
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have one of them at least one of them make it through the night when everyone said they didn't
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know where she was and they couldn't hear from her I knew I knew just had that gut feeling that she was
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gone for a huge tragedy like that to occur the day before Thanksgiving on Julia's birthday right before the baby
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was to be born it was just so much when I arrived at the scene I was told the victim was found late on the
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floor in front of the stove Melissa Lish was a 27-year-old EMT we're trying to figure out why there's a fire in the
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kitchen we couldn't tell if it was intentional or accidental there was all kinds of possibilities running through
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our heads but we we didn't know what happened to her my daughter Melissa she's very
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thoughtful and that's why she got into being a paramedic she wanted to help people
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[Music] when MSA first told me she was pregnant she told me a couple things about the
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dad Matt Floy they on and off hung out for years and had a similar click of friends Matt Ploy was a firefighter
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paramedic he was a good firefighter Matt was somebody that was Dependable on the
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fire scene he was just one of the guys he was Keeping a Secret the fact that he fathered a baby in the hopes that the
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child wouldn't be born for Matt he never had a child before he didn't want to make it known to other people because he
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just wanted to keep that part of his life private Matthew py was a person of interest on day one simply because he
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was at the scene Matthew Ploy later told investigators that he was at the house to see Melissa to talk about um the
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[Music] baby he admitted he was there he told them everything that they would have
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needed to know about his presence there didn't have anything to add they discussed their finances and
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then Matt left as she was making some lunch she talked about tring some food or something but we I didn't stay
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around I believe from the very beginning he was trying to set up a story that there was an accidental house fire that
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had been cooking something which would explain why her body was found in the kitchen when you got the call about
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Matthew py possibly being involved in a murder what did you think uh denial that it wasn't one of
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our people it doesn't chime with what a firefighter is we put fires out we don't start fires
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we help people we don't hurt [Music] people it is unthinkable [Music] [Music] before the fire that set Melissa lish's
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home Ablaze on November 25th 2020 the day had started with excited anticipation Melissa was due to give
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birth to a baby boy in Just 2 days and Thanksgiving was a day away she was going to have a nice private
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Thanksgiving with Dad so I gave her a call the morning of the 25th and uh we talked for about 2 and a half hours
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Cassie ball and her sister Melissa had lots to chat about we talked a lot about the future we talked about what was
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going to come with the baby the conversation ended because she looked outside the window she said you got to
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be kidding me she's like he's freaking here again I told him he's got to stop doing
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this at the door was 33-year-old Matthew Ploy the expectant father of Melissa's baby she said I'll tell you what he
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wanted I'll give you a call right back bye hung up does she ever call back no my sister never called
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back Melissa Lish and Matthew py met and became friends 7 years earlier while each was in college they maintained a
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casual relationship the friendship says the lambish family cooled off once Melissa let Matthew know about the
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pregnancy Melissa told her family he did not share her interest in becoming a parent he wanted her to get an abortion
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she didn't want that he blamed her ghosted her it did come too upset Melissa because they were friends for so
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long she thought he'd at least want to be involved a little bit yes Melissa thought that he would want something to
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do with a baby to that point she thought he was a pretty nice guy then she saw a
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different side of him and that really upset her Dean and Gus were fully prepared to
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help their daughter with whatever she needed for the baby I had said if he doesn't want to be a part of the baby's
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life you know don't push the baby is your child told her whatever you needed I'll I'll help you financially she knew
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she had plenty of family support everything would have been fine the Lish family was a large one one
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Melissa had four siblings she was already an aunt and was known for following her own path Melissa was
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unapologetically herself and that is what she was she's perfect mix of sugar and spice not too spicy not too sugary
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it's just perfect Melissa was strong she was fierce she was a go-getter Melissa liked
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to reinvent herself through hairstyles and careers most recently the 27-year-old had been working as an EMT
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Mel kind of fell into the line of work she had an experience in college that took her to a emergency room and she
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really appreciated how she was treated and she wanted to do the same for other people you're proud yes that was her job
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and she took it seriously as her due date neared Melissa had to stop working to make things
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easier she moved into her childhood home with her dad her parents had divorced several years earlier Melissa grew
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increasingly excited about becoming a mom even though she and Matthew had little contact Melissa would continue to
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send him like sonograms or when things would happen cuz sometimes he would respond a little bit but she didn't know
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really where he stood exactly but mulsa wanted her baby to have the option of having the mother and the father so she
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kept the communication with him he often shut down Matthew wasn't just shutting out Melissa he kept the fact he was
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going to be a father a secret including from his co-workers and chief Rob Schultz at the Carol Stream fire
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district several counties away from Melissa's home we're here 24 hours a day and it's
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a just a normal uh course of being a firefighter and that you talk about your family your personal life and what's
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going on good bad or indifferent I knew Matt as a single guy that didn't have any
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kids even Matthew's own parents did not know about the pregnancy until Melissa told them Melissa wanted them to have
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the opportunity to be a part of their grandchild's life how did Melissa say his parents responded to the news of a
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grandson Melissa said that his parents were very nice that um they said let me know what you need I'll help you any way
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we can how did Matthew find out that Melissa had told his parents they were having a baby I believe believe that the
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parents then approached him but it was not long after that that she had said he's mad I told them because he had kept
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it a secret yeah Melissa celebrated the upcoming birth with family and friends at a baby
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shower she had let everyone know she was having a boy it was a happy time until nearly 2 months later on that fateful
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Thanksgiving Eve it was just all so surreal while Melissa's family tried to process their loss investigators were
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hoping to provide them with answers about what had happened the fire debris is everywhere Brian ker then the lead
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detective at the ogal county sheriff's office headed to the kitchen where Melissa had been found everything's
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covered in Smoke ceilings walls have fallen down and everything's a mess ker and other
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investigators also headed outside to an ambulance to view Melissa we've noticed that she didn't
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have a whole lot of fire damage to her what does that say that the fired in killer
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[Music] we needed identify the area of fire origin and what may have caused that
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fire Michael P then a special agent with the Illinois State Fire Marshall's office was trying to establish whether
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the fire at Melissa lish's home was accidental or intentionally set what are you looking for where the
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greatest damage is at where the fire patterns are at we looking at everything and everything in this picture that may
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have something to do with the origin of the fire where do you think the fire started uh I believe the fires over here
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actually it's in these cabinets where these cabinets used to be above the stove area but when P examined
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the stove thinking that perhaps cooking Flames caused the cabinets to catch fire
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he saw that neither the oven nor the burners had been turned on all the controls are in the off position and
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there is no fire damage in the interior of this oven to show that this was some type of cooking
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fire also did not find any electrical issues so we're starting to run out of accidental causes and we could identify
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at least three very simple and easy ways to exit this resident much of the house besides the
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kitchen remained accessible so pool thought Melissa could have found a way out it was what I would call a survival
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fire this young lady was a paramedic she's used to dealing with emergencies for her to totally lose her
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perspective and stand there and try and fight that fire when you start putting all these things together that you start
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coming up with okay this makes no sense while P was inspecting the house investigators talked with the Lish
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family ker learned about the phone call that day between Melissa and Cassie that
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Melissa ended when Matthew Ploy arrived at the house we learned from the family that he
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was a fireman Melissa's brother Carl told investigators he had already spoken on
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the phone to Ploy telling him he knew he had been at the house that day Carl also
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told P about the fire and that someone had died but not that it was Melissa investigators did that when they asked
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ploy to come in for an interview that evening [Music] disease okay as you watched his interview what
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did you think about his demeanor his responses emotionless very soft spoken Matthew said he went to talk to Melissa
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he wanted to talk about money about being allowed at the hospital when she was set to be induced in two days and
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that that's why he was there in that interview Matthew made a reference to a deadline when explaining his decision to
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go to the house that day I mean there's a deadline for for that so we were a deadline for for a pregnancy
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there's a deadline it was a phrase that investigators didn't quite know how to interpret was Matthew a suspect at that
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point no he was not a suspect what are the next steps in the investigation we need to determine the cause of
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death we don't know if if Melissa had a medical episode or if somebody did something to her or if the carbon
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monoxide from the fire killed her we don't know to get those answers two autopsies
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would be performed one 2 days after Melissa's death and then another about 2 weeks later while lab work was completed
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the results normal carbon monoxide levels and no soot was found in her system what was found was evidence of
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strangulation including hemorrhages around her neck Melissa it was determined had been
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murdered we have to plan a funeral and while we were still waiting for things it was nearly 3
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weeks on December 14th 2020 the Lish family held a funeral for Melissa and her unborn baby who Melissa was going to
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name Barrett we didn't get to kiss his forehead touch his cheek the first time we got any kind
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of contact they were in a casket and the first time I touched his hand I just remember gasping just and I
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had decided I was going to keep holding his hand something Melissa didn't get to
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do Melissa's family was convinced that Matthew Ploy was responsible for their profound grief that he killed Melissa
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simply because he did not want to become a father Matthew investigators would learn
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had been juggling multiple women in his life I believe he did it because he's selfish and it was going to change his
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life having a child Melissa wasn't asking him for anything no money nothing he could have walked away so why I think
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it was his pride he wanted to keep it a secret with no other suspects and with Matthew admitting to being at Melissa's
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home that day investigators were also circling in on Ploy but were still Gathering
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evidence we had collected DNA evidence at the autopsy and we sent that to the crime lab we got in search warrants for
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phone records we were in the process of getting that information back they were also waiting to get information back
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from Amazon about possible recordings from an echo dot that Kar had noticed and was retrieved from the fire damaged
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kitchen we were hoping it would record conversations or something from the day between the two of them that Amazon Echo
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dot could turn this case around could have it could have recorded Melissa screaming for help yelling out his
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name we didn't know what it would be [Music] I was contacted by our police chief to
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give him a call immediately that he had something very important sensitive to talk about when Carol Stream fire chief
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Rob Schultz returned the call he couldn't believe what he was hearing one of our firefighters was
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being investigated in a in a suspect in a murder that occurred about 2 hours from our fire District's
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boundaries it was now 9 months since Melissa lish's death in a house fire that had sent shock waves through the
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community and Mount Morris where her home was located but firefighters where Matthew
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py worked in Carol Stream about 75 M away were unaware of the fire Ploy had said nothing when you heard the name
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Matthew py in that call what did you think I was you know there's no way this could be Matt they have something wrong
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here but that disbelief started to change when Chief Schultz checked to see if py worked the day of the fire and
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learned he had called out sick a knot in my stomach like literally wanted to throw
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up the fire chief's Sinking Feeling only got worse when he learned that investigators believed Matthew killed
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Melissa and their unborn child because he did not want to be a father and then set the house on fire in
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hopes of destroying evidence we had placed Matt immediately on paid administrative leave when I
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called Matt in to to tell him I just said I'm being told that you're under investigation for a murder of your
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strange girlfriend and the baby that your father of did you ask him why he hadn't mentioned it didn't feel that it
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was uh something that he wanted to talk about and he felt it was personal matter
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and didn't want to disclose it while on leave on August 28th 2021 Matthew Ploy was called in again for
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questioning my name is Brian I'm the lieutenant with the Sheriff's Office CL willingly appeared without an
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attorney and I wanted to contribute and be in the life of our child over the course of the 7-hour interview he
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explained to investigators why he was at Melissa's the day of the fire so we talked about you know what I could p
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and that we we just said we work it out later to um visit again he said when he left that
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afternoon Melissa was talking about making lunch she talked about joing some food or something but wa I didn't stay
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around most of the S hours was filled with investigators asking questions and Matthew Ploy saying very little so did
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you go there to kill her or did you just go there to talk to her and something happened we kept accusing him of things
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and he never said I didn't do it he never said you guys got the wrong person he was just emotionless and he wouldn't
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communicate not once in seven hours not once did he get upset most people would have told us I'm done but he just sat
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and listened to us had you ever experienced an interview like that before never it wasn't just the lack of
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communication that made lieutenant ker think P was guilty but on the rare times py did talk the unusual way he freeze
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things did you intend to kill her I no intention to her during that 7-hour interview at one point Matthew
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did say I had no intentions of hurting Melissa did that make you do a double take yes cuz in our opinion that means I
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hurt Melissa but I didn't intend to do it but it was not an admission of guilt so ker wanted to see if clo would say
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anything more and made an unusual request of fire chief Schultz we asked Chief Schultz if he would wear a
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listening device so that he would have a conversation with Matthew we would be able to hear it and record it and try to
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gain some evidence that way when Brian asks this of me I'm pretty taken back and initially I had said no way and I
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did some thinking about it and called them back and said yes you have a lot of responsibilities as a fire chief but I
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can't imagine you ever thought wearing a wir tap would be one of them no I don't
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freely talk about it it's not something that I'm proud of it was something that needed to be done in the hopes of
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helping the investigation there's a grieving family out there that that's looking for
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answers and so on September 9th 2021 Chief Schultz called Matthew py and asked him to come in to
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talk and he agreed he says I'd like to come talk to you Matthew came in later that day the fire station was quickly
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cleared of all other personnel and Brian ker and other investigators headed over
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they were able to place a device that just recorded audio on a phone on fire chief Schultz's desk
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and listened in from outside the fire station and from an adjoining office how are you feeling nervous very
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nervous scared Chief Schultz tried to learn what happened to Melissa by appealing to py
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on a personal level I'm trying to find answers and I'm trying to help you help me help me walk through I mean what what
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happened but the nearly 2-hour conversation yielded very little info from Ploy with him again again barely
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speaking about the day Melissa died I remember saying fill in all the blanks for me and isn't it odd that no one here
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knows that you're going to be a father like that's that's something we celebrate here what do he say nothing uh
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head was down uh a lot of the conversation did he ever say I didn't kill Melissa and my baby he did not with
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none of the interviews resulting in a confession there was still no arrest something that exasperated the Lish
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family oh it was excruciating and I mean we were pestering the uh the police [Music]
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constantly there were several reasons for the delay there was the wait for the Fire Marshals report which concluded
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that the fire caus is most likely incendiary in nature possibly the result of a fire being intentionally set in an
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effort to conceal a potential homicide and getting information from Amazon on whether Matthew's voice was recorded on
00:25:03
that Echo dot they retrieved from the kitchen took time it did reveal voices but nothing that proved helpful for our
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case it wasn't even on the day of the murder investigators had also waited to obtain Matthew P's DNA until after the
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August 2021 interview hoping he would first confess to killing Melissa we got the results back saying
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that it was his DNA under her fingertips turn around your hands behind your back
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on March 9th 2022 after a year and a half of investigating Melissa lish's death with a police body cam rolling
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Matthew py was arrested on charges including murder the intentional homicide of an unborn child and arson
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technically right now you were under arrest the motive that the state painted was just
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an inaccurate portrayal of Matt by the time of Matthew pl's arrest he had hired attorney John cup they painted him to be
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this monster that at the drop of a hat after a career of saving people decided to suddenly start killing people you
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were indicted by the grand jury the evidence doesn't show that Matthew py murdered Melissa Lish or their un bone
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child [Music] [Music] Melissa Lish was loved this is not someone who had enemies lined up around
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the block who wanted to see her deceased rather there was one person and one person only and that was Matthew py
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yesterday 16 M panel assistant State's Attorneys Allison Huntley and Heather crw were part of the team Prosecuting
00:27:08
Matthew py all signs pointed toward Matthew py from the very beginning what we wanted to portray to
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the jury is that he was a a guide saving lives for his entire career defense attorneys John cup and
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Liam Dixon say their client was misunderstood and as a firef was a responsible person not a murderer Matt's
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plan was to financially support her he had offered her money before his plan was to be
00:27:36
there Matthew Ploy pleaded not guilty to all charges on March 18th 2024 more than
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3 years since Melissa's murder his trial began in ogal County Illinois the prosecution argued that Ploy murdered
00:27:52
Melissa and their unborn child because he didn't want to be a father he was Keeping a Secret the fact that he
00:27:59
fathered a baby in the hopes that the child wouldn't be born the defense told the jury there's no evidence py harmed
00:28:08
Melissa and that he had gone to see her that day just to talk they discussed their finances they discussed what would
00:28:15
happen with the birth of the child and then Matt left as she was making some lunch I believe from the very beginning
00:28:22
he was trying to set up a story that there was an accidental house fire that she had been cooking something I believe
00:28:28
that was how he laid out the scene which would explain why her body was found in
00:28:33
the kitchen prosecutors called fire investigator Michael P to testify about his findings he told the court that he
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found no evidence of an electrical or cooking fire and you start ruling these these various different things out how
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certain are you that this fire was intentionally set I'm certain that it was intentionally set no doubt No Doubt
00:29:00
during cross-examination the defense suggested that Michael pul was unsure of his findings citing language in his
00:29:08
report such as most likely and it is believed you use the phrase it is believed because that's an uncertain
00:29:15
opinion correct just the way I describe it but that's an uncertain opinion correct not
00:29:22
to be P says he was just using standard terms used during fire investigations I review information the state also called
00:29:31
forensic pathologist Dr Amanda humans who had performed one of the autopsies there was no soot in her
00:29:39
Airways and her measure of carbon monoxide in the blood was within normal limits so she was deceased prior to the
00:29:46
fire Dr humans testified that Melissa's body showed evidence of a violent struggle the jury heard about the
00:29:53
hemorrhages around Melissa's neck a specific type of broken blood vessels called peal hemorrhages which according
00:30:00
to Dr human is a Telltale sign of strangulation this is the most fatig hemorrhages I've ever seen in a
00:30:09
strangulation case to sit through trial was beyond devastating Deana Lish came to court
00:30:16
every day I had been prepped by the victim's Advocate things were going to be gruesome I was going to see a lot
00:30:24
Deana says she always kept Melissa and her babyar it in her thoughts she was so strong willed and had such Pride that
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baby was going to be a strong guy Matthew pl's parents also attended the trial they've been by his side
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throughout this yes I reportate one of the most important witnesses to testify was Melissa's
00:30:47
sister Cassie talking about the day Melissa died and that call which Cassie says was interrupted by Matthew py what
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was the last thing you're s said to you during that phone call sorry she said she make the conversation
00:31:06
quick and you'd call me right back did Melissa call you back no jurors watch those recorded
00:31:19
interviews with investigators where Matthew Ploy admitted he was at the house how long were you at the house
00:31:28
it wasn't more than an hour think prosecutors wanted jurors to hear that phrase py
00:31:34
used there's a deadline for for that referring to the birth of his son as a deadline he
00:31:42
said there's a deadline to these kinds of things that was his deadline to murder Melissa if you think about it
00:31:50
logically Thursday's Thanksgiving and Friday is her due date his deadline the only time to do this was Wednesday so he
00:31:58
took off work and completed his goal the prosecutors found even more telling what
00:32:05
plot didn't say especially during that 7-hour interview 4 hours of which were played for the jury what is chilling is
00:32:14
the fact that he never denied murdering Melissa and he never denied killing her baby boy not one time it's chilling from
00:32:24
a personal perspective but that's also excellent evidence that the defendant couldn't bring himself to lie about that
00:32:31
fact over the course of multiple interviews for several hours he was calm and reserved his silence defense says
00:32:40
actually points to his innocence not his guilt he had a right to remain silent but the police are allowed to continue
00:32:47
to poke and prod and try to get him confused and he just didn't buy into any of that they say their client when he
00:32:55
did speak was open with investigators he told them everything about his presence there he didn't hide any of
00:33:03
that he just never admitted what they wanted him to admit which was that he killed Melissa and his child which he
00:33:07
didn't do do you think the fact that the fire didn't burn down the whole house does that play in Matthew's favor or not
00:33:15
I believe it does if he's a firefighter and he's trying to destroy evidence you would think he would have the ability to
00:33:21
set a fire to complete that goal but during three days of testimony the state laid out the case that it
00:33:29
could have only been Matthew Ploy who set that fire to conceal evidence of the murder of Melissa and their unborn baby
00:33:38
something the defense was about to contest the states fire expert deemed that this was arson he did and we had an
00:33:45
expert who directly contradicted that what do you think of Matthew pl's interview with investigators join the
00:33:54
conversation on Facebook and X [Music] [Music] the states expert didn't do a fraction
00:34:13
of what he should have done to properly determine the cause of the fire this should have been an undetermined fire to
00:34:20
try to poke holes in the prosecution's case the defense called only one witness retired firefighter and independent
00:34:28
inspector John knp he was not at the scene of the fire but did study reports and photos I felt like there was
00:34:36
probably more information that could have been gathered that wasn't there he disputed the prosecution's claim that py
00:34:42
set the fire he testified that the evidence collected doesn't prove that the fire was intentionally set by anyone
00:34:50
I couldn't make that determination to whether or not what the cost of the fire should be other that
00:34:58
detered when you're not there at the scene you don't see what we've seeing not always does every little tidbit end
00:35:07
up in a report Michael P says the defenses expert is wrong and that his investigation was thorough we're looking
00:35:15
for anything and everything that could have contributed to the origins of this fire they weren't there they needed to
00:35:21
be there when we were doing the examination Matthew Ploy waved his right to testify during closing arguments the
00:35:29
defense accused investigators of having tunnel vision the complete lack of Investigation of any other individual is
00:35:39
shocking I've never seen such a poorly investigated case they didn't follow up on any other leads that may have
00:35:46
happened any other boyfriends any other anybody else if there had been another lead investigators certainly would have
00:35:53
followed it there simply wasn't prosecutors told the jury that the evidence evidence was clear Melissa Lish
00:36:00
was strangled to death by the only person who had a motive to kill her Matthew Ploy who was juggling multiple
00:36:07
women and didn't want to change his lifestyle he clearly did not want to be involved in this baby's life this is
00:36:15
someone who actively hid the fact that a woman in the community was carrying his
00:36:20
child he clearly had made some choices about having multiple relationships but did not make him a
00:36:26
killer the trial lasted a week and after 2 hours of deliberation the jury returned with a
00:36:34
verdict we the jury find the defendant Matthew CL guilty of first-degree murder guilty of all charges I could hear
00:36:44
people sobbing and gasping but like I I couldn't even lift my head what did you feel
00:36:51
shock shock the verdict was a relief for chief Robert Schultz he says the case had long
00:36:59
waigh on him and everyone at the firehouse who had worked with py there was a huge closure here when bat was
00:37:07
found guilty you still have the family out there that lost a daughter lost a grandson you're never going to change
00:37:16
that 3 months later on June 27th 2024 Melissa's family and friends gathered at the courthouse for
00:37:25
sentencing Matthew Ploy listened with little reaction as Victim Impact statements were read we lost Melissa in
00:37:32
the prime of her life Melissa and Barrett should still be alive and enjoying life with their loving family I
00:37:37
shouldn't have spent Thanksgiving that year feeling like there was nothing to be thankful
00:37:43
for this shouldn't be real but it is real it is all real because one man decided to make the decision that
00:37:51
Barrett and Melissa weren't needed or wanted none of this had to happen all he had to do was walk
00:38:02
away Matthew Ploy also addressed the court with this brief statement say anything other that I
00:38:10
share the pain and sense the L of most do you believe him oh no definitely not for him to say I and two have pain
00:38:21
and loss from Wilson bear like that what a joke the judge imposed the maximum sentence Mr py you are sentenced to
00:38:31
Natural life imprisonment Life Behind Bars Matthew py will likely die in prison does that give you any sort of
00:38:43
Peace no I know it's the justice system and we received our justice but nothing about
00:38:51
this is just it's not fair nothing about this is fair no punishment in the world
00:38:57
brings them back I miss her personality I think it's her sass Melissa's sister Julia Lynn tries to
00:39:07
hold on to fond memories mosa was I believe still is the best person that I've ever met what do you miss most
00:39:17
about your daughter and there's a grandson you never got to meet but where did he
00:39:21
start I mean he was he was going to come into my home I was looking forward to raising
00:39:26
him through all of their grief the Lish family honors Melissa in many ways we took toys to a local homeless shelter to
00:39:36
honor Barrett to honor Barrett we donated money to the no kill shelter that Melissa got her cat from
00:39:47
they also sponsored a tree at a local Arboretum that Melissa loved every year at the holidays this tree will always be
00:39:55
lit as part of their display shining brightly like Melissa always did was so strong she was fierce she was powerful
00:40:05
nothing was going to stop her and she was always going to prove herself and she'd do whatever it take to do
00:40:19
[Music] it you've probably heard of the NCIS from the hit TV series but we're about
00:40:25
to take you inside it's real life work listen to 48 Hours NCIS early and AD free on the 48 Hours Plus subscription
00:40:34
on Apple podcast as a kid growing up in Chicago there was one horror movie I was too
00:40:40
scared to watch it was called Candyman but did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder
00:40:47
listen to Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder wherever you
00:40:50
get your podcast [Music] welcome back to postmortem I'm your host anarie green and today we're discussing
00:41:11
the case of Melissa Lish now the day before Thanksgiving in 2020 firefighters responded to smoke at an Illinois home
00:41:21
but once they were inside they found Melissa she was 9 months pregnant dead on her kitchen floor she was scheduled
00:41:29
to give birth actually 2 days later she was going to be induced so of course there's a lot to discuss when it comes
00:41:34
to this case we are joined today by CBS correspondent Nikki batist and 48 Hours producer Ruth chenet thanks for being
00:41:42
here it's good to see you hello thanks okay so just a reminder to everyone I say this every week if you haven't
00:41:48
listened to uh the 48 Hours episode yet you can find the full audio uh just below this episode in your podcast feed
00:41:55
so go take a listen and then come back for this conversation okay let's get into it so Matthew Ploy he suspected of
00:42:04
killing Melissa and the baby that they were expecting and then setting the fire in her home to conceal the death but
00:42:12
what's surprising about this is that he's an actual firefighter and so one would think if anyone would be able to
00:42:18
set a fire that would be difficult to investigate it would be him that was actually one of my very
00:42:26
first thoughts when we were researching the story is wait a second he seems like
00:42:30
the one person who might be able to set a fire that would destroy evidence but he's a firefighter he's not an arson
00:42:37
investigator he doesn't necessarily know how to start the perfect fire and remember if he did in fact do this you
00:42:44
know he would have wanted to destroy all the evidence but he would have no way of
00:42:47
knowing exactly how to commit the perfect crime in that way and even as you know from other stories we do people
00:42:54
have plans and they make mistakes who knows what happened if he panicked if he didn't complete his plan but yeah
00:43:05
somebody who usually puts out fire starting a fire yeah putting out a fire is definitely much different the oven
00:43:10
wasn't on the burners were turned off but when you see pictures of the crime scene and anyone who watched the show
00:43:15
sees I mean the kitchen is destroyed when she was found but a lot of the rest of the house including the room that had
00:43:21
stuff for the baby which is gut-wrenching to see was intact so we know from the hour that the relationship
00:43:28
between Melissa and py it wasn't great it was but it had never been a real sort of solid relationship anyways do we know
00:43:35
anything about Melissa's family and py whether they had a relationship her older sister had heard about him but
00:43:45
didn't meet him so it was one of these friends on again off again they never really dated they were never boyfriend
00:43:52
girlfriend the people that we spoke to had not met him before um and the older sister recalled
00:44:01
hearing about him from when they were friends like how you talk about your group of friends to your siblings
00:44:08
Melissa and mattity P had known each other for some time they met during college they went to different colleges
00:44:13
but they met at a trivia night at a bar and as Rus said had this casual relationship but I remember Cassie her
00:44:20
one of her sisters who we talked to in the hour telling a story about Melissa saying that the father of her baby was a
00:44:27
bald firefighter and Cassie went on Facebook sort of scouring trying to figure it out and did oh and sort of
00:44:33
said is it him really and she's like you know I believe confirmed it the reason she wasn't telling people the name is
00:44:40
cuz according to the family Melissa was like he doesn't really want to be part of this and so why do I need to tell you
00:44:47
who he is if he's not going to be part of the life of the baby I mean how did her family feel about that well I know
00:44:56
Gus Melissa's dad he didn't want to know the name because he didn't want to know
00:44:59
he didn't want to know who the father was because the father didn't want to be in the baby's life and I think as
00:45:03
Melissa's father he's probably mad like I don't even want to know who this guy is I think my dad would feel that way
00:45:08
right but I think probably her sister clearly wanted to know right I'd probably do the same thing I'd be all
00:45:15
over Facebook and the family said don't worry about it if he doesn't want to help you that's fine we will we'll help
00:45:23
you financially we'll help you with support she had a lot of brothers and sisters she was already an aunt so they
00:45:30
were like don't worry we'll help you yeah if there's anything that you get um from this hour about her is that if
00:45:37
there's somebody who could handle being a single mother she could like she'd take on the challenge and you certainly
00:45:44
see that she has a village supporting her um what about P's parents I mean this would have been their grandchild
00:45:51
Matthew did not want his parents to know he was expecting a baby and Melissa decided ultim
00:45:58
to take it upon herself to tell Matt's parents and as we understand it you know they probably later spoke to him about
00:46:04
it so we don't know for sure investigators say they don't know for sure if that could have set him off but
00:46:10
certainly in our interview with some of Melissa's family they wondered if it did
00:46:15
I remember Dean her mom saying you know if only she hadn't told his parents would she maybe be here would my
00:46:21
grandson maybe be here according to Melissa's sister uh Melissa told told her that his parents were like isn't
00:46:29
that exciting we're here we'll help you and and the reason she did it she mentioned to her family oh I might tell
00:46:36
his parents they're like why bother leave well enough alone but she felt very strongly they had a right to know
00:46:43
this is according to her family that his parents had a right to know that they were going to be grandparents and she
00:46:50
was you know wanted other people in the baby's life and she always thought they seem like nice people so she didn't see
00:46:57
why she shouldn't tell them which is admirable and and it says a lot about about Melissa we did try to speak with
00:47:05
his parents but they didn't want to sit down with with us with 48 hours but they
00:47:09
were as we understand it there at the trial the defense said they certainly were supporting him we saw them the day
00:47:15
of the sentencing really could you I know it's hard to tell but like what was their demean or like I mean this has got
00:47:22
to be incredibly tough for them stoic like I remember they were very serious but never had the chance to speak to
00:47:28
them to know what they think now you know after the trial so Melissa's family they kind of know of Ploy and they know
00:47:36
that he's the father of the child but they don't know much else they know he's a
00:47:39
firefighter when Melissa's body is found uh in that house that has been set on fire did they immediately think he might
00:47:49
be responsible for this they did the family did not necessarily investigators and the reason was that Melissa had been
00:47:57
on the phone with her older sister Cassie earlier that day of the fire and they're talking about the baby they're
00:48:05
talking about Thanksgiving and Melissa says I got to go Matt's at the door something like that and she said I'll
00:48:12
call you back and that was the last anybody heard from Melissa so right away they know he's at the house and I think
00:48:20
to the family because he had been at the house that day she didn't want anything
00:48:27
to do with him um and he had come by the house two days before too and she's like
00:48:34
why is he keep coming to them right away they're they're thinking he may be invol
00:48:40
investigators you know look at it a little differently obviously he's a person of interest because he was there
00:48:45
and they called him in for you know questioning that evening the evening of a fire he willingly came and spoke with
00:48:53
them but also you have to remember in the beginning too you don't know for certain
00:48:57
that she was even murdered right you know the there's a fire she's in the kitchen she's dead maybe she was cooking
00:49:05
something and it went up and they don't really know what caused the fire right no they never found uh you know a device
00:49:13
investigators had dogs come in and sniff for accelerant they they didn't find any
00:49:18
accelerant they didn't find any electrical issues so what they determined was that it was started at
00:49:25
the cabinets above the stove they believe to make it look like something happened in uh in the kitchen I think
00:49:33
for this story it mattered less what started the fire What mattered was was it accidental or was it intentional an
00:49:41
accidental fire and an intentional fire could both be started in the same way really so I think that was really what
00:49:46
it was all about so this is something that you guys may not know but do you know if they had an adversarial
00:49:54
relationship she was not afraid of him like it wasn't like oh my God I'm not going to open the door that and Matthew
00:50:02
py had zero criminal record you know he was known to be sort of quiet at work it
00:50:08
wasn't someone where you have like oh you know that employee who flies off the handle all the time that was not Matt
00:50:14
and she tried to you know keep the door open in case he wanted to be involved but she really had no reason to be
00:50:21
afraid of him right so you know perhaps one of the saddest sort of aspects to this story is that Melissa's mother
00:50:30
Danna who is waiting for her grandchild to be born and is expecting the new child uh into her life in just a few
00:50:37
days um she meets her grandson for the first time at the funeral she holds his hand because her daughter can't um you
00:50:49
can't help but to sort of fight back tears and imagine the pain that she is feeling yeah which I am yeah I have a
00:50:56
baby so every time I think about this I I still get emotional um yeah Deanna wanted to see her daughter and her
00:51:04
grandson Barrett who remember was a baby about to come out into the world and Di
00:51:11
carries around a picture with her in the picture is Barrett and she's holding Barrett's hand Di and she keeps that in
00:51:19
her wallet and carries it around and to see the picture just sort of makes your heart stop for a minute you realize
00:51:27
what this family has lost she's lost her own daughter her grandson her daughter's
00:51:33
lost a child she never got to meet I mean it it's it's horrific in every way and for me seeing that photo is just
00:51:42
something I'll never [Music] forget welcome back to postmortem so investigators interviewed Ploy Twice
00:51:57
first on the evening of the murder and then 9 months later clips from both of those interviews were actually shown
00:52:04
during the hour but both went on for much longer obviously than you can ever show in in an episode uh the second
00:52:13
interview lasted full seven hours but what was his demeanor like during those interviews well he willingly agreed to
00:52:20
those interviews and there was no lawyer present he didn't even hire a lawyer until later 7 hours sounds like a long
00:52:27
time if if there was talking going on they would ask a question and often he either didn't answer or there'd
00:52:36
be two minutes before he would answer so most of the seven hours were the investigators asking questions trying to
00:52:46
get him to talk and him saying very little and I think too what's striking or what might strike a jury is not once
00:52:52
is he emotional m I think you know juries humans like to watch behavior and behavior as his
00:53:04
lawyers would put out doesn't mean guil or innocence no matter what it is but it's hard to tell jury that absolutely
00:53:12
the defense says for as long as we've known him that's how he is when we talk to him but the investigators say you
00:53:20
know we were accusing him of some pretty horrendous things and most people would
00:53:26
say enough leave me alone how dare you and he was very calm and not saying much I
00:53:35
think for me what strikes me the most is neither of his interviews did he ever say I didn't kill Melissa and her baby
00:53:44
and I would think if if you are in fact innocent you would probably say that absolutely but even sort of one of the
00:53:51
clips that is in the episode where they say to him Melissa is is dead and I don't know exactly the phrasing that
00:53:58
they used but he's like oh and I thought isn't like the first impulse to be like
00:54:04
what happened and again the defense looks at it and says well look he didn't get rattled so interesting um so another
00:54:12
kind of interesting component of this hour has to do with the fire chief right his boss uh fire chief Rob Schultz he
00:54:19
agreed to wear a wire and confront uh py about the night of the murder and initially fire chief Rob ads says that
00:54:27
he said no and I kind of understood why cuz I thought you know you're the leader
00:54:32
of these group of men and women they have to trust you to go to you and this is kind of a betrayal of that trust for
00:54:42
a really good reason a murder investigation but still I could understand why he would waffle on it a
00:54:48
little bit and you could see the pain in his face when Nikki spoke to him about this you know where he's like I don't
00:54:55
readily talk about I'm not proud that I did this but there is a grieving family out there looking for answers and in the
00:55:04
end he didn't have to wear like they put something on his phone and the desk but
00:55:09
he's a wonderfully thoughtful man who cares about his firehouse and you you can sense how troubled he is by all of
00:55:17
this and when he first got the call that Matthew P was being investigated for the
00:55:21
murder of you he didn't even know about Melissa had never heard the name of Melissa she didn't know there was a baby
00:55:28
but when he was told all of this and that Matthew was being investig he couldn't believe it he was like no no
00:55:33
way not not the Matthew that I know like he knows him he's known him for years uh
00:55:38
but he said I think the moment for him where he thought wait maybe something you know maybe Matthew is involved is
00:55:44
that he Matthew had taken off that day from work and I think for him that was the moment where things started to fall
00:55:50
into place and it wasn't just that it couldn't be Matthew to Chief Schultz the concept of a firefighter someone who
00:55:59
saves lives who helps people doing he was like it couldn't be any of my guys because that's not what we do um again
00:56:09
Matthew willingly came in and I think some of it was gee am I ever going to get my job back that maybe that might
00:56:17
have been part of the lore and chief Schultz was like look I will help you deal with this like if you tell me I can
00:56:25
go with you to the police you can call me at 2 in the morning Rob Schulz thought if he could appeal to him on
00:56:33
that way but he really he just he wouldn't give anything yeah didn't say anything what I really got from the fire
00:56:40
chief was that he not only felt a little uncomfortable doing this but also he was
00:56:47
questioning himself a little bit I know this guy what did I miss which I think we see often in many of these 48 hours
00:56:56
cases Chief Schultz was is pure good yeah get and I think he wants to think that of everyone in his life and his
00:57:03
firefighters and his world has been I mean his world will never be the same okay let's talk a bit about the trial
00:57:10
now what was P's main defense at the trial well there there were two things that the defense found inadequate an
00:57:19
inadequate investigation that maybe to question other old boyfriends or other people and
00:57:28
then that the fire itself was not investigated well enough right and the person that the defense mentioned in
00:57:36
their closing argument was Gus Melissa's Dad saying you never looked at G you never questioned him he was at the
00:57:44
grocery store buying groceries for Thanksgiving when he got the call about the fire like why didn't you verify that
00:57:50
he wasn't at the house earlier and and they were making that point in fact I want to play a p of our interview with
00:57:57
defense attorney John cup that was not in the show where he explained just why he made this
00:58:04
argument our job is to point out things that give a jury doubt the the detectives involved in this case should
00:58:10
have taken steps to determine where someone like Gus Lish or other people in the neighborhood they should have
00:58:18
determined where those people were or could have been at the time of this you know alleged crime but they didn't do
00:58:25
any of that and here's another unaired clip from Gus Lish reacting to the argument uh during his victim impact
00:58:33
statement and not only do I have Liss and Barrett taken from me they want to accuse me of killing them how heartless
00:58:41
he have to be be able to to to do this to a grieving parent this was insult to injury I don't believe that the defense
00:58:49
truly thinks Gus had anything to do with it they were using Gus as a concrete example
00:58:57
of here's a timeline and you didn't even check that but to Gus obviously as he said it's like insult upon injury it's a
00:59:09
bold move I think on the defense part and I I asked the lawyers you is there a shred of evidence that Gus had anything
00:59:15
to do with Melissa's murder with the fire anything and they said no so it was you know but as defense lawyers as they
00:59:22
do were just trying to create some sort of doubt and that was one of the ways they they
00:59:28
did it right and I think they they chose Gus because he gets the call at the supermarket and that could have been
00:59:38
something very easy call the supermarket see if he was really there it's his house and they didn't do it but the
00:59:45
prosecutor said if there were other people worth looking at investigators would have so that's why
00:59:54
to them it wasn't tunnel Vision they looked at who they needed to to look at you know hearing Gus refer to that in
01:00:01
his victim statement was powerful I remember I think we even looked at each other like G and then also we sat down
01:00:07
with Gus after that day and he had such raw emotion you know I feel like dad sometimes try to be really tough and he
01:00:15
just it was so sad and so heartbreaking Melissa had moved in her parents were were divorced she had moved in with Gus
01:00:22
into their child at home because she had to stop work as the baby was coming and
01:00:28
Gus in the interview said to Nikki you know he was looking forward to like almost raising this child sure move into
01:00:35
my house I'll give you some some help clearly they were so close she's living with him he's supporting her there's a
01:00:42
room in his house ready for a baby with diapers and teddy bears and he's lost it
01:00:47
all and his house right you reveal and we talked about this earlier um in the hour that Melissa's baby was going to be
01:00:56
named Barrett what's the story behind that name it's a sweet story it's a great name I love the name according to
01:01:02
her family Melissa never told anyone the name but they really wanted to try to figure it out they knew that she liked
01:01:08
double letters they knew it was a boy and she was calling the baby little bear so after she passed they were able to
01:01:15
see her internet searches and one of them was what does the name Barrett mean so they decided to go with that name and
01:01:23
coincidentally one of the meanings of the name Barrett is is bare strength oh which is sweet so that's the name that
01:01:30
he was given that's the name that's on his Tombstone with his mom I mean if there's anything that I get from this is
01:01:35
that this really did not have to happen if the theory is true that he just didn't want to be a dad he didn't have
01:01:44
to be she was fine without him um and it sounds like she was a Powerhouse she would have been an amazing mother but
01:01:54
you did very well at bringing her to life um so another excellent hour uh thank you so much guys thank you thank
01:02:01
you yeah she sounds like she was an incredible woman yeah I would have been a great mom indeed
01:02:08
indeed if you like the series please rate and review uh 48 Hours on Apple podcast and follow 48 Hours wherever you
01:02:16
get your podcast you can also listen at free on Amazon music wry plus and the wry app or with a 48 Hours Plus
01:02:24
subscription on Apple podcast thank you so much for listening