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[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] Acme is a very small community everybody knows each other day
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see you take care [Applause] they go to the local Diner they have their breakfast lunch or
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dinner okay and they shop at the General Store you have that feeling of safety keep your doors
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unlocked on November 24th 1989 Mandy stavic went out running with her dog [Music]
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the dog had returned but she [Music] hadn't and when she didn't come back I [Music]
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panicked there was a massive hunt for her everybody was out looking it was 3 days later when we
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found her this is the South for of the Nooksack River she was just floating lightly the only thing I could see were
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her tennis shoes and socks when I rolled her over it was kind of a real shock to
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me because she looked like my daughter and people would say to me oh you're so strong oh yeah right you can't
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be strong through something like that it just rips you to pieces oh we were in shock people were
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crying they were um whoa there was a killer out there [Music] somewhere the question is was this
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person going to strike again yeah so much unknown [Music] for 25 years we had no viable suspects
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in this case you've got to keep working keep persisting keep going Mandy's dead but
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this case was not going to die no I absolutely did not think it would ever get [Music]
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solved I'm amazingly enough it was two women talking in a water park that gave us the break in this
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case one of the moms brought her name up I just kind of turned to maril Le and said well I am sure I know who killed
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her and turned to her and I said oh I do too [Music] [Music] so take me back it's November 27th 1989
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where are we right now we're Upstream from where I recovered her this a solemn place for you isn't it it isday it
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really does back then detective Ron Peterson led the search team for Mandy stavic moving up River in a zodiac boat
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we came around the corner and we got out of the main river and into the little side Channel and I could see pink
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something pink it was Mandy wearing only her running shoes when you lifted her out of the water as a father did you say
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anything to her you're the first person I asked up I said I got you Peterson and so many others in the small
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community of Acme Washington are still emotional even 30 years later what was lost for you in this community with the
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death of Mandy stavic a sense of Innocence I think more than anything Jim Freeman was Mandy's high
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school basketball coach and gave the eulogy at her memorial service attended by nearly a thousand people you see her
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smiling back at you right at your soul with eyes that say I love life he had mentored her off the court
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as well becoming a father figure after Mandy's parents divorced Mandy expressed her admiration for him in this
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card for Mr Freeman the one person who has inspired and influenced me more than anyone
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thank you you're the greatest most sincerely Mandy stavic class of 89 number 13 basketball player cheerleader top
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student once an aspiring airline pilot Mandy stavic truly stood out says her mother Mary she wanted to do
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everything she wanted to be very good to the best at everything she did and she was Mandy's older sister Molly Brighton
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Mandy she was larger than life she accomplished a lot in the short time that she was here all that promise
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came to an abrupt end in 1989 when the college freshman came home from Central Washington University for Thanksgiving
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the day after the big holiday meal at her house Mandy set out on the last jog of
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her life with her German Shepherd Kyra how many times you driven this road oh jeez probably probably close to 100
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over the over the 30 years of working on the case detective Kevin Bowie who was just a rookie Deputy back then has
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pieced together Mandy's route from the few people who briefly saw her that day she always started from the house
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here then then ran down westbound toward the west side of the Strand Road the last person to see Mandy alive
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was a man in a pickup truck who pulled up right here Mandy ran right in front of him heading in that direction to go
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around the bend to her home about an eigh of a mile from here I would say to that wooded area ahead of
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us is where I believe she was abducted Bowie says her as salent had to be in a vehicle Mandy was too fast a runner to
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catch on foot how do you think she was abducted by a weapon that's what they used to
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gain the controller I believe it was a gun and what points the gun at her and says get in yep points the gun at her
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get in that point she's compliant investigators believe the attacker had kicked the dog into a ditch before
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abducting Mandy he then sexually assaulted her about 3 and 1/2 miles away from where she was jogging afterward she
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tried to flee a scenario suggested by the scratches on her arms and legs I immediately went oh my God she was
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running away running through the blackberries blackberry bushes got thorns on big thorns
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and that's what I thought she was running away from whoever had her I believe whoever was chasing her caught
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her and hit her in the head knocking her out and then placed her in the river to
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make sure she drowned it occurred to Ron Peterson that Mandy's body May hold other important evidence he had just
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recently been trained by the FBI on recovering DNA and based on the position that she was in the water you knew you
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had to get her out to preserve it that was the biggest fear of mine is how to get her out without disturbing it his
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training paid off so when they did the autopsy they were able to recover male DNA from Mandy the male DNA was Sean
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suggesting a sexual attack what happened in terms of the investigation from there
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it was you know you always look for that person that's strange or odd that doesn't quite fit into the community
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tips poured in and deputies check them out this is a standard Road where sui was
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observed David sui was a local Drifter seen in the area that day Bowie says they got a warrant and got his DNA and
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he was ruled out deputies interviewed various Persons of Interest including Mandy's boyfriend
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Rick Zender they also looked at him just to rule him out all dead ends in all some 30 local men gave DNA samples none
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matched the case went cold and the murder hung like a dark cloud over this community for the next two decades it
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was like an assault on all of us then almost 25 years later a new suspect emerged and he had lived right in
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Mandy's Neighborhood his name wasn't even on the radar [Music] I don't know what it was about her I'm
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just an ordinary person I don't know how I managed to have that child Mary stavic spent years haunted by
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the murder of her daughter Mandy and the lack of progress in the case and I just
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really didn't have any hope that became more ingrained at me as the years went on but detective Kevin
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Bowe who attended the same high school as Mandy had never given up by 2009 he was the lead investigator
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on this unsolved case we needed some answers we needed to get to the bottom of it he began scouring the case File
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pouring over old leads and old suspects and I started going through who's been interviewed who's been talked to Bowie
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noticed that a local drug dealer named John wisnoski had been questioned because he told people he might know who
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murdered Mandy although his DNA did not match the crime scene Bowie still wanted
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to talk to him again and in 2010 he traveled all the way to Cambodia where wisnoski now lives to question him what
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did your gut tell you about this man I thought he was a good liar just kept r generating I don't know who did this you
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weren't believing him though I I didn't believe him but a feeling wasn't evidence so it's another dead
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end yes but then 3 years later the Sheriff's Office got a tip that sent them in a New
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Direction coming from of all places a pair of moms chatting at a water park it was June
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2013 where were you guys when you had this conversation sitting on the grass right
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over there Heather Backstrom and marily Lee Anderson had both gone to Mount Baker High and you just watching your
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kids coming down the water slides and things MH out of the blue one of the other mothers brought up the name Mandy
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stavic both Heather and maril Lee who barely knew each other held long suspicions about the same man marily had
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never told anyone in law enforcement of her suspicions I really wasn't ready because we are in a small town and to
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accuse someone of something that we don't know for sure is a little scary Heather also never discussed her
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concerns with anyone in the area no friend or family in the community that I lived in because of the weight of that
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but talking to each other here in this water park decades later they finally felt compelled to say his name out loud
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and I just said that I knew that it was Tim that it was Tim bass Timothy bass had gone to Mount Baker High to why did
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you say Tim bass I thought it was Tim best because of the experiences that I had had with him in the past disturbing
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experience very disturbing yes as it turns out both women had experienced creepy run-ins with him and began
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exchanging stories I'm probably 15 and he was in his 20s it was after a softball game in the
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summer of 1989 a few months before Mandy's murder we decided a bunch of us to go to Dairy
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Queen she says they all piled into a friend's truck including Tim bass who was sitting next to her he would talk
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about my eyes that my eyes were beautiful then he took like a pen out of the cup holder and and would like start
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rubbing it along my knees cuz I was wearing cut off sweatpants you must have been scared you're 15 years old yeah I
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was very nervous hearing Heather's story marily told her own which was far more chilling back in July 1991 she was at
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home one night with her young son when she heard a knock on the door so I open the door and there's Tim bass at the
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door and he asks if he can use the phone because he had been hunting all day and
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wanted to use the phone to call his wife when she handed him the phone he started
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dialing but something wasn't right I hear the the beep beep beep we're sorry when you call and the phone's
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disconnected so I thought okay something's up then she says things got scary so then he walks through the
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kitchen and back to my bedroom he said that he used to drive by our house and that he had always been in love with me
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and wanted to make love to me right then and there yes marily Le says she demanded that Tim leave but he refused
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and what are you feeling at this moment uh terrified eventually after she threatened to call the police Tim
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left years later the two women now realized they had to speak up merily contacted another mount Baker High
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graduate detective Ken Gates She had a gut feeling that Tim bass was responsible for killing Mandy where did
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Tim Bass Live he lived right in this house right here a home less than 2 miles from
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Mandy's house right along her running route back in 1989 1990 did they go to the bass
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household and question people there they looked at it like no it wouldn't be this
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fast family because they're well-liked in the community and so I I think it was just overlooked Tim bass along with his
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brother and father had never been asked to give a DNA sample and for the past 25
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years Tim had been living a quiet life in a nearby community married with three children and driving a delivery truck
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for a bakery any criminal record anything that would have called attention to Tim bass no he uh kept to
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himself and for the most part worked and came home but now police decided to pay
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Tim a visit at home very non-threatening than your approach correct when asked about Mandy Bass pretended he didn't
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even remember her at least not at first so he just looked up and was like Mandy Mandy Mandy um oh yeah she was the girl
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that they found in the river it was kind of like okay I we're being played here who could who could forget Mandy stavic
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police asked bass for a saliva sample to get his DNA and at that point he goes well um I don't want to give my DNA I
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watch those crime shows I see how many people go to prison because they given DNA so they tried a new plan at this
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point we decided we need to get a surveillance team on him and follow him on his route they followed Tim Bass All
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Night Long on his Baker delivery route police were hoping bass would throw away an item with DNA on it but no
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luck the investigation stall yet again until police received an unexpected helping hand I wasn't really going to
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take no for an answer I'm going to find something I'm going to get you something
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[Music] 24 long years had passed without an arrest and police finally had a prime
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suspect back in 1989 Tim bass lived down the road from Mandy stavic and she often
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jogged past his house on her regular running route which is how he fixated on her police believe if Tim bass sitting
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in his home was looking out the window could he have seen Mandy running by easily investigators knew Mandy didn't
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jog by the bass house the day she disappeared but Tim was in their crosshairs so they wanted to know more
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about him they got some background from his younger brother Tom as kids they ped
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around together like most Brothers very competitive we had a lot of fun together
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playing you know different sports Tim had always been a loner but as a teenager he began to reveal deeper
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issues social interactions never really been natural to him Tom remembers a harrowing
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night after a high school girlfriend had broken up with Tim he was on the phone with her in his bedroom and he
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apparently had a pistol with him at some point said I'm going to kill myself he actually ended up firing the gun Tim had
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fired into the air from that night on Tom says people close to Tim noticed a change in him it's just the disgust the
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disrespect towards women Robin did you ever see this oh yes mhm Robin is Tom's wife I think that he really thinks that
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women are inferior to him Tim got married young at 22 just 6 weeks after Mandy's murder he married another Mount
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Baker graduate Gina Malone she she says it was hardly a fairy tale romance I married him basically to get away from
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home Gina says throughout their nearly 30-year marriage Tim was a controlling and emotionally abusive husband I felt
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like his servant go get me a drink go get make me food I personally witnessed him tell Gina to shut up you know 8
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million times it didn't feel like a marriage I like I went into a prison actually but Gina stuck with Tim and had
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three children with him why did you stay with him uh I was scared and I did leave
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I actually I got a restraining order and left for 2 months at that point I had started divorce proceedings and he's
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like I'm going to lie to the judge and get the kids taken away from you anything with my
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kids I'm just like okay I'm going to do whatever I have to do to not lose my kids in Tim bass detectives believed
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they had their killer but they wanted to cast a wider net of potential suspects to be sure they were on the right path
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we developed this list we called it a DNA sweep investigators got DNA from three dozen more men in the area but Tim
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bass wouldn't cooperate so cops called the bakery where Tim worked and spoke with his boss
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Kim Wagner the Tim bass I knew he was different I don't know he was weird how is he weird though you just never knew
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what Tim was going to be at work that day the smallest thing would anger him and so you tend to kind of stay away
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from people like that and Kim says she experienced Tim's low regard for women he never called me Kim he always called
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me woman woman and um which you know whatever as Kim chatted with investigators she
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realized they were looking at the Mandy stavic murder and figured out what they were really after Kim said well you guys
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want DNA don't you and I said well yes and she says I can get it for you at this point I'm thinking I'm working with
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somebody that potentially did this to Mandy and I got to know she kept an eye on Tim day after
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day watching if he discarded anything that might have his saliva on it you'd empty the garbage so it would be empty
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yeah in case he dropped a cup uhhuh or a bottle yeah a cup yeah it took three long months and then finally she saw him
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throw away a plastic cup and later a Coke can and I just stood there and went it's game time I'm like there's a
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jackpot and so this time my heart was like oh I was I was dying because there was a lot of people around so I grabbed
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it and then I was like I threw it in my desk drawer and then she gave it to police my gut said it was him my heart
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said it wasn't because I just didn't really want to think that we were all betrayed so about 3 months later we got
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the results from the state crime lab and Katie from the crime lab says Kevin we've got a match
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you hear those words what was that moment like you hear them but you're not sure you're you're it's almost like I'm
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dreaming I'm going to wake up at any moment in time I was just like this is the biggest thing that's ever happened
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to me a lot of tears after the DNA match they paid another visit to Tim as he was leaving
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work I'm questioning I'm like did you have any relationship with her no so you didn't even kiss her or anything no
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never the why would your DNA be inside her he went from denial to well how did you get my DNA what are you
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talking about right after that conversation on December 12th 2017 28 years after Mandy had been found
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dead police arrested 50-year-old Tim bass in the bakery parking lot they charged him with kidnapping rape and
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murder as my partner's cuffing him up I say you're under arrest for the murder of Mandy
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stavic later that day the sheriff came knocking on Mary's door it also happened to be her birthday and he says we've got
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him that's all he says we've got him and I says who I really I really never dreamed I really never dreamed it
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Mandy's sister Molly was overwhelmed too I like wow what a present what a birthday present
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detective Bowie called Kim Wagner with the news her first thought was about Mandy and I asked if her family
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knew what' he say that they knew and so that's that's why I did it I just never forgot about Mandy but it's a
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big leap between thinking you have your man and convicting him in a court of law
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were you trying to get me to admit to something I didn't do is that what you're trying to do right now Jim says
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he's innocent and that he had a secret that explains everything he said I just wanted to let you know I slept with
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Mandy I was like [Music] what for prosecutor Dave mcran it's been a long road to Justice she was such a
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good good kid and it just shouldn't have happened just shouldn't have happened at
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all mcran was 44 when Mandy stavic was [Music] murdered and now at 73 ladies and
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gentlemen of the jury he's come out of retirement and insisted he' not be paid as he leads the prosecution team in this
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deeply personal case in your heart is as well as in your head you wanted to finish this you're B all
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right after 30 years of Heartache fear and frustration the trial of Mandy's accused killer finally Begins the
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state's case is simple the defendant's DNA was inside her and we know that she was kidnapped she was raped and then she
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was killed case closed no Tim bass is not guilty says defense attorney Steven Jackson he didn't kidnap anyone he
00:28:02
didn't rape anyone and he certainly didn't kill anyone Jackson floats a theory to jurors
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that if true would be shocking the suggestion that Tim bass and Mandy stavic had consensual sex in the hours
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before her murder there were no signs of a struggle evidence of sexual contact is
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not evidence of rape everything I've said is the truth in this interrogation after his arrest bass claimed he had
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been having a secret affair with Mandy it was more of a friendship type thing we just talked and and uh then it just
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kind of grew into U more more of a physical thing and we didn't even really do it that much so it was more kissing
00:28:46
and stuff DNA can only tell you that there was contact Stark FIS is one of bass's defense attorneys Mandy had come
00:28:53
home for Thanksgiving break are you saying that when he came home they met somewhere and had intimacy uh that's
00:29:03
exactly what I'm saying and what do you say to those who say prove it that no one saw the two of them together there
00:29:11
are no telephone calls made between the two of them first of all I don't have to
00:29:16
prove it the burden of proof is on the state of Washington not on the defense remember when Tim bass was first
00:29:24
questioned in 2013 he said he barely remembered who Mandy was now they were lovers why would his story evolve like
00:29:33
that in your opinion because he's making it up he's trying to cover himself good
00:29:38
afternoon Miss Wagner come on step right up here if you would testifying for the
00:29:42
prosecution is the woman who helped retrieve the DNA evidence that linked bass to the crime scene was terrified
00:29:50
but Kim Wagner knew she had one more job to do if Tim was potentially involved in
00:29:57
that crime I wanted to do the right thing for Mandy but the defense is hoping science
00:30:04
can support bass's account they called Dr Elizabeth Johnson a forensic expert to the stand she says the Seaman could
00:30:13
have been deposited up to two days before Mandy's death I would say most consistent is ours
00:30:22
to days and probably within up to 48 hours the prosecution expert the original medical
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examiner from 30 years ago Dr Gary gold Fogle disagrees he says various indicators say it was much sooner she
00:30:40
was raped and then was killed and deposited in the river and drowned in the river would your findings be
00:30:48
consistent in all regards with that hypothetical yes they would now it was time for a woman to
00:30:56
testify who B knew very well please have a seat you've been sworn his now ex-wife
00:31:04
Gina she divorced him after his arrest and his claims about his affair with Mandy I was so nervous and I was shaking
00:31:15
I don't even want to see his face Gina testifies that she witnessed him ask his mother to lie for him to point the
00:31:23
finger at his own dad he's asked her can we say Dad did it bass's father had died more than a decade earlier she put
00:31:35
her hands over her face and like this and and paused for a minute and then said no Tim bass's trial was turning into a
00:31:46
family reunion from Hell his brother Tom took the stand as you're about to go take the stand what's what's going
00:31:54
through your mind did you sleep the night before very little it was it was agonizing as hard
00:32:02
as it was I I I I knew I had to do it I'd like to direct your attention to February 24th
00:32:10
2015 Tom recounted that when Tim was under investigation he told Tom he had slept with Mandy decades ago and then
00:32:18
asked Tom to tell police he had also slept with her I guess to make it look like she got around that would be my
00:32:27
only you know that's probably why he said that and then he asked me again he said
00:32:35
you believe me right I was I didn't know what to say and Tom describes another damning
00:32:44
incident after Tim was arrested he said that the cops are lying everyone's out to get him he said
00:32:54
I need a strong Alibi or I'm going to prison he said mom maybe you can say that we
00:33:02
were Christmas shopping Tom do what you can despite that testimony defense attorney shashana
00:33:11
page has an explanation for his behavior even innocent people when they're under
00:33:16
that great weight of Suspicion can do things that can be interpreted as well only a guilty person would do this as
00:33:23
the n-day trial wraps up both sides make their final appeal to the jury it's easy
00:33:30
to to make the assumption that this pretty young woman would never have anything to do with Mr Bass but this is
00:33:37
Mr Bass Circa the late ' 80s just because somebody hadn't seen them together doesn't mean that they hadn't
00:33:46
been together at some point this is an investigation that based on the faulty assumption that this is a sexual assault
00:33:54
and it may well not have been a sexual assault this was not a situation where there was consensual sex there was no
00:34:02
contact between these people she was abducted she was raped and she was killed hold him
00:34:09
accountable the DNA was at the heart of Tim bass's trial it would now be at the heart of the jury's deliberation one of
00:34:19
them said teenage girls can sneak out at night maybe there was a a secret relationship M I'm
00:34:26
Clerk issue the [Music] verdicts 30 years of wandering 2 weeks of trial 5 hours of deliberations I was
00:34:39
terrified as the jury in the Mandy stavic case deliberated the hours felt like an eternity I was every Jer please
00:34:49
do the right thing do the right thing do the right thing they have to have 100% agreement if one person doesn't agree
00:34:56
they've got a hung jury and they have to start all over again and I was praying that that would not happen although no
00:35:03
one testified to ever seen Tim and Mandy together juror Ed Bean says they had a lot to discuss when we go in and
00:35:12
deliberate we had to turn into to be investigators and attorneys too and we went through everything we had posters
00:35:18
on the wall and maps and we went through everything just like the attorneys did juror jay van murgen maybe a quarter of
00:35:27
the people tied up on whether or not there might be reasonable doubt deliberations lasted a little over
00:35:36
a day Madam clerk issue the verdicts 29 years and six months to the day had passed since Mandy stavic was
00:35:47
killed would her family and friends finally get Justice we the jury find the defendant Timothy Forest bass guilty of
00:36:00
guilty of murder rape and kidnapping it was such a relief such a relief for you that moment
00:36:08
when you're seeing the family Embrace and the tears did you think this is what Justice looks like yeah at that point I
00:36:16
thought this is why we do what we do the harm at this caused is incalculable he has finally received
00:36:23
Justice and to me it can't be enough time he should never get up out 6 weeks later it was time for
00:36:32
sentencing my family will never be healed never be normal Mary and Molly were too emotional to speak so Molly's
00:36:41
husband Mike Brighton spoke for them Timothy Forest bass must never be allowed to walk the earth as a free
00:36:48
person never ever the defendant's mother would like to address the court then it
00:36:55
was the bass family's turn to speak Tim's mom Sandra bass insisted that her son never tried to blame his father for
00:37:04
Mandy's death that is totally false I do know my son is not guilty of this crime
00:37:11
then if you would like the opportunity now is the time I will convicted murderer Tim bass whose
00:37:19
DNA had sealed his fate spoke in court for the first time I would first like to say that I'm 100% innocent of of this
00:37:28
crime furthermore I don't believe I received a fair trial in saying that though a better man
00:37:35
in me says I should say very little today and give this day to the Staffing family unsued the judge sentence bass to
00:37:44
the maximum sentence nearly 27 years he couldn't get life because prosecutors did not charge him with premeditated
00:37:54
murder they were not sure they could convict him of that charge for 30 years you have lived free from the
00:38:00
responsibility for your acts but that life has been a lie and tragically it has caught your family your mother your
00:38:07
brother your ex-wife and your children in its web Tim says he's an innocent man what
00:38:15
do you say guilty as hell I lived in prison for 28 years with him and now it's his turn for Mary who
00:38:26
once thought she'd never see Justice bass's sentence gave her some Solace definitely close your ey feel
00:38:36
after all they've got the guy that did it he'll spend enough years in jail so if he ever does get out his life will be
00:38:43
practically over Tom Bass now wonders if his brother considered other killings possibly even Heather or Mar Lee I think
00:38:54
potentially more could have been his next victims you sometimes think we're lucky to be
00:39:01
alive yep Heather and maril Le are proud of their roles in putting Tim bass away in
00:39:10
the end three women's word or experiences are what took him down and I love that Kim Wagner part of that Trio
00:39:21
of women credits Mandy's Hometown Acme it really took a village it took a whole Community the Sheriff's
00:39:30
Office never gave up on [Music] Mandy we got the right guy sorry I guess the community could feel
00:39:44
safe and and be whole again and I'd hoped at that point the family could heal in some ways you could
00:39:54
be whole again too right yeah [Music] 48 hours to miss it would be a crime were you at all prepared for what
00:40:11
happened in this case [Music] 19-year-old Christian smart disappeared on Memorial Day weekend of
00:40:55
1996 for more than two decades her family friends and supporters searched for answers and for justice in October
00:41:05
20122 the man long suspected in her disappearance was found guilty of murder his father charged with being an
00:41:12
accessory after the fact was found not guilty we take you back to their arrest and how The Saga
00:41:19
[Music] began it's a landmark day in this very high-profile case of Louis abiso County Sheriff's Office is
00:41:29
set to release details about the latest developments in today is a day that many
00:41:34
had hoped for wished for and prayed for this is where it all began on the campus of cpala
00:41:43
University the last place that Kristen smart was seen alive it's my hope that we're able to take the first step toward
00:41:50
Justice for the smart family I grew up not far from where Kristen disappeared the billboard in the
00:42:00
Royal Grande is visible it's got Kristen's photo on it driving past that billboard was a periodic reminder that
00:42:07
oh yeah they still haven't found that girl I'm Chris Lambert I created the podcast your own backyard which focused
00:42:14
on The Disappearance of Kristen smart investigators say smart and two other students left the party that night
00:42:21
and walk back to their oncampus dormatory buildings we're here surrounded by dorms and yet nobody saw
00:42:28
anything it was a very dead holiday weekend A lot of people had gone home in the amount of time that they were alone
00:42:35
and whatever happened that her life ended I think there was plenty of opportunity to hide her body without
00:42:40
anybody noticing my sister turned 19 in February she disappeared in May when she disappeared I was about to
00:42:50
graduate at 8th grade but my parents did a really good job of shielding us I'm Stan and Denise um their wonderful
00:43:00
parents um a very large group of of friends went down to C Holly to help search for
00:43:07
her Stan was there Denise stayed back and I stayed back with her in case Kristen came home never would have
00:43:15
dreamed in a million years that she would not return and calpoly is a safe place you do not think of this
00:43:24
happening this is one of my favorites of her with this great smile that she has I
00:43:29
just love that it's just to me that's just that captures her remember her wanting to like travel the world and be
00:43:35
an architect I really miss her she should be [Music] here originally when we first took the
00:43:43
case I was determined I would be able to find her in 6 months if you've ever been
00:43:48
on one of these searches you walk up a canyon here in San Louis abiso County and then there's another Canyon off that
00:43:56
and you get to the end of that one there's another Canyon there's billions of places to hide a
00:44:04
body it's important to explain here that Kristen's case has never been declared cold a case is only considered cold when
00:44:12
law enforcement decides that they've exhausted all of their [Music] leads but what makes it interesting to
00:44:19
me is that they've had a suspect since pretty much day one hi Paul good morning I'm Jonathan Vigliotti with CBS News
00:44:27
were you involved in The Disappearance of Kristen smart Paul can you tell us what happened
00:44:33
that night between you and Christen it's important that there's an arrest made you got to move and you've
00:44:40
got to do it now I'm here this afternoon to announce the restr of Paul Flores for the murder of Kristen smart
00:44:51
[Music] [Music] after almost 25 years of Suspicion on April 13th 2021 St Louis abiso County
00:45:42
Sheriff Ian Parkinson announced the arrest of Paul Flores and The Disappearance of christen smart it's
00:45:49
been a puzzle and it's a very slow uh process to find each of those little pieces some of that information came to
00:45:58
light through the podcast that many of you are familiar with in the crowd taking it all in was that podcaster
00:46:06
Chris Lambert it's hard to take too much credit but I was one piece of the puzzle
00:46:11
that helped to make this all come together when it did Lambert was just 8 years old when Christian smart vanished
00:46:19
on her way home from a college party in St Louis abiso California I remember seeing it on the
00:46:25
news Kristen is a freshman at calply but hasn't been to class since before the Memorial Day weekend and Kristen smart
00:46:32
left a party on the calply campus it was something scary and they were talking about it pretty regularly but 22 years
00:46:39
later when he couldn't find any recent stories about the case he decided to do [Music]
00:46:49
something it's a cold and cloudy winter afternoon in San Louis abiso and I'm retracing missing calply student Kristen
00:46:56
Mark's last known steps even though he'd never investigated anything before Lambert
00:47:04
quit his job to create a podcast at least once a day I asked myself what are you doing Lambert began looking into
00:47:14
what happened to Kristen collecting articles and documents chasing down leads and tracking down anyone with
00:47:22
information I didn't know the scale I didn't know how many people were going to listen but I knew that I could try to
00:47:28
do a small part I Googled Kristen Smart's name every few years he never expected it would be a hit but his
00:47:35
podcast caught the attention of millions of listeners and sparked new interest in
00:47:41
this decades old unsolved case back in May 1996 Christian smart was finishing her freshman year at
00:47:51
California poly Technic State University better known as calpol her younger sister Lindsay says their mother urged
00:47:59
Kristen to go there you should go to calply they're known for being a really safe
00:48:04
school and it was only 250 mi from Stockton California where she grew up with Lindsay and their brother Matt her
00:48:12
parents Denise and Stan were both Educators who encouraged their kids' passions she was who she was because of
00:48:21
her parents for sure anarie Christian became friends with Kristen in elementary school her parents reminded
00:48:27
me of my parents just very involved with their children a very close-knit family
00:48:33
Kristen loves swimming and skiing but Lindsay says her sister was happiest when she was traveling she had traveled
00:48:42
the world before she even made it to College by herself which is pretty amazing she spent a summer in London was
00:48:48
an exchange student in Venezuela and a lifeguard at a camp in Hawaii she definitely like took advantage of Life
00:48:55
seiz the day she was super ambitious and was determined you know to find the next
00:48:59
adventure to find the next challenge that turned out to be College like so many freshmen Kristen struggled
00:49:08
classes were difficult she was trying to fit in and she missed her family Kristen broke down begging her
00:49:17
mother to let her drop out and go somewhere else but every Sunday when she called her parents they encouraged her
00:49:24
to stick it out longtime family friend Denise Pierce things were going to get better
00:49:30
and you know and and they did Friday May 24th 1996 was the start of the Memorial
00:49:38
Day weekend most students had taken off but Kristen had stayed on campus so had Margarita Campos who lived in the Next
00:49:46
Room in M Hall they had become close friends despite their differences I was a little bit more um
00:49:54
introverted and inhibited and she was like no we have to go out and we have to go like live life and she was growing as
00:50:02
an individual she was pushing herself out of her comfort zone and I was like no so when they were invited to a party
00:50:13
that Friday night Kristen was excited to go Kristen was like come on let's go let's go and I was like nah I have to
00:50:21
study and so she pulled me into this sort of like oh come on let's socialize and these girls are inviting us out
00:50:26
let's go and I was like okay fine but when we got to the house it was pretty dead too it was really it was like a
00:50:32
couple roommates hanging out playing video games and Kristen was like oh gosh there has to be something better than
00:50:39
this the two girls walked to an area off-campus where there were fraternities sororities and residential housing for
00:50:48
students Margarita soon decided she'd had enough you wanted to go home and you were trying to find the way to break it
00:50:55
to your friend that's exactly right they got to the parking lot of this apartment
00:51:02
complex I was like Kristen I'm going to go back home I'm going to go back to the
00:51:06
dorms you can go and she's like please come with me please come with me I told her I didn't I didn't want to
00:51:13
go Kristen did not have a purse money her ID or even her keys so before leaving Margarita handed over her keys
00:51:22
to get back into M Hall she was absolutely so for when I left her I'll never forget her Shadow against the
00:51:30
building this apartment complex just standing like kind of cross armed with a long leg and she was just kind of like
00:51:35
looking at me like you're really walking away now like you're really you're leaving the next morning Margarita
00:51:44
waited to hear from Kristen I was expecting her to knock on my door and be like Oh Margarita you missed a rager and
00:51:52
here's your key I knocked on her door and I thought she was just sleeping or she went out
00:51:58
and about you know it wasn't until Christine's roommate returned to their dorm room that Margarita realized
00:52:05
Kristen never came home how did you know she hadn't been back uh nothing had moved all of Kristen's personal
00:52:13
belongings including her purse her money her ID were in the room exactly where she had left them I mean she was gone
00:52:23
she was gone by the time they called the cowp H campus police Kristen had been missing for more than 48 hours but
00:52:31
Margarita says the police did not seem concerned the campus police they were like are you sure she didn't go out of
00:52:37
town it's like she has nothing on her how could she have gone out of town they thought she was off possibly having fun
00:52:45
M oh yeah but they could not have been more wrong to this day like I was like why why did I
00:52:55
just Let Her Go by herself I did have guilt about that but uh you have to understand she's a really independent
00:53:02
free [Music] spirit Kristen's mother Denise smart spent Memorial Day weekend at a swimm
00:53:21
with her two younger kids she was looking forward to hearing from Kristen that Sunday
00:53:27
and that phone call never comes the phone call never comes instead on Monday May 27th Denise Pier says the smarts got
00:53:36
a call from cp's campus police asking if Kristen was with them Kristen hasn't come home and we're not sure where she
00:53:47
is we don't know anything that's when Denise smart learned her daughter had not been seen all weekend and all her
00:53:56
belongings were still in her dorm room she was becoming more and more alarm you know she was she was frantic I don't
00:54:03
understand this you know what's going on it is every parents worst nightmare the
00:54:08
smarts say they tried to file a missing person's Report with the local police but we told it was too early and the FBI
00:54:16
told them calpol police were in charge but as Chris Lambert learned the campus police did not act right away at that
00:54:24
point I don't think they had ever dealt with a missing person a possibly murdered
00:54:29
person by the time the Cal Hol police began investigating Kristen had been gone for 4 days as they soon learned she
00:54:38
had ended up at a party at this house it's mostly frat guys from the kakai fraternity I don't know if Kristen knew
00:54:47
anybody there Chris Lambert who worked as a CBS News consultant pieced together what he learned from people who were
00:54:53
there that night Kristen became incredibly intoxicated whether she was drugged or whether she just had a lot to
00:55:01
drink in a short amount of time she ends up passed out on the lawn next door Lambert says Christen could
00:55:10
not stand on her own so fellow student Cheryl Anderson who was also at the party began helping her back to campus
00:55:18
they were soon joined by another party goer Paul Flores as they describe it Paul Flores
00:55:25
just sort of appears as out of nowhere and offers to help he gets his arm around her torso and her arm around his
00:55:32
neck and he's helping her walk Paul keeps stopping along the way and letting Cheryl Anderson know you can
00:55:39
go on ahead I've got her it's fine she didn't think that was okay so she slowed down and walked with them when they
00:55:47
reached the turnoff to Cheryl's dorm she says Flores tried to hug and kiss her she left them only after he promised to
00:55:55
take her Christ back to her dorm I don't think she ever imagined that Kristen would end up dead by the end of the
00:56:02
night Paul and Kristen then make their way here what happens next so if you believe Paul's story he goes into his
00:56:10
dorm room here and he leaves her to walk up this walkway her dorm entrance is right over here I personally think that
00:56:19
wherever Kristen went Paul was there with her I don't think that she went back to her dorm at all whatever
00:56:25
happened in those early hours one thing is indisputable Christian smart has never been seen
00:56:33
again she had just 40 yards to go and yet she vanished that's the upsetting part about it isn't it the
00:56:42
investigation seemed to be hampered from the start by a series of missteps by campus police beginning with their
00:56:49
assumption that Christen was off having fun and ignoring worried friends who said she was missing
00:56:56
so much was lost in those first few days where if that very first phone call was
00:57:01
taken seriously answers might have been uncovered the first week they also did not focus on Paul Flores immediately
00:57:09
waiting 6 days to formally interview him even worse they never sealed his dorm room there was a lot of evidence that
00:57:17
could have been gathered that wasn't why I wish I knew why they did an interview
00:57:23
with the calpoly Mustang daily and explained that they didn't think there was any evidence that a crime had taken
00:57:29
place by the time they inspected flores's room Kristen had been gone for 16 days school was over so campus police
00:57:38
found an empty room that had been sanitized by the University's cleaning crew any evidence that might have been
00:57:46
there was long gone the investigation was completely botched by the campus police there's no question about it and
00:57:53
while they did not rush to investigate fles christen's family says campus police were very quick to judge her just
00:58:01
days after she disappeared an incident report seemed to imply that Kristen's Behavior contributed to her
00:58:09
disappearance there was a lot of focus on how Kristen was drinking what sounded a lot like victim shaming right 100%
00:58:19
that was happening the report said smart does not have any close friends at calply smart appeared to be under the
00:58:26
influence of alcohol on Friday night smart was talking with and socializing with several different males at the
00:58:33
party but while campus police weren't doing much Kristen's parents were doing whatever they could to find their
00:58:41
daughter Kristen's father would come down and Hike every Trail he could find on the Central Coast he'd go anywhere
00:58:49
he'd go through tunnels under bridges looking for his daughter and expecting best case scenario he's going to find
00:58:55
her body which is awful for a parent early on a small group of volunteers also looked for Kristen but a
00:59:04
massive search did not happen until she'd been gone for more than a month that's when the campus police finally
00:59:11
handed the investigation over to the St Louis abiso sheriff's office but they did not find
00:59:18
[Music] Kristen 4 months after that feudal search Paul Flores was brought before a
00:59:24
grand jury little is known since the proceedings are kept secret but no charges were ever filed just Weeks Later
00:59:32
christen's frustrated parents contacted James Murphy a local civil attorney it was just a sad phone call to have
00:59:41
somebody say our daughter disappeared and we think she's the victim of Foul Play and we'd like to pursue the guy
00:59:48
that we think is responsible Murphy and his wife Garen Sinclair agreed to take the case pro
00:59:55
bono promising to go after Paul Flores and put pressure on the Sheriff's Office Murphy immediately filed a
01:00:04
wrongful death lawsuit against Flores in civil court and it says wrongful death and then I put murder putting murder on
01:00:13
the lawsuit was sending a message to Paul Flores and his family that we believe that he killed Kristen and that
01:00:21
we coming for him but trying to get him hasn't and easy it just amazes me the amount of evidence that's available yet
01:00:30
nothing has happened the day after my sister disappeared Paul Flores had a black eye
01:00:38
and scratches on him [Music] [Music] you look at Kristen smart every day every day the Smart's Attorney James
01:01:01
Murphy and his wife and office manager Garen Sinclair have had Kristen's billboard in their front yard since late
01:01:10
1997 it's just a motivator for me I will go outside at nighttime and I'll look up
01:01:18
at the full moon and I'll think that that kid's buried somewhere real close Murphy and Sinclair promised the smarts
01:01:26
the billboard will stay until their daughter is found I'd love to do anything to end their suffering and that
01:01:35
weighs on you yep is there any doubt in your mind that Paul Flores is responsible for The
01:01:44
Disappearance of Kristen smart no no and Murphy and Sinclair believe they can prove it they were not able to proceed
01:01:52
with this civil case while there was an ongoing criminal investigation but that did not stop them from
01:01:58
following every lead and preparing for an eventual trial there has been no other suspect
01:02:06
every piece of evidence points directly at Paul Flores like his black eye you can see it
01:02:13
faintly in this mug shot taken by the a royal grande police just by chance 2 days after Kristen vanished at the time
01:02:22
they did not know about a missing college student they were after Paul Flores for an outstanding DUI warrant
01:02:29
having a black eye doesn't make you guilty of anything but if the person you were with disappeared from the planet
01:02:37
that's physical evidence Chris Lambert says two days after that when Flores was interviewed by campus police they asked
01:02:45
how he got his black eye as well as scratches on his hands and knees and he says he got a black eye playing
01:02:52
basketball with his friends but one of those friends told told police Flores already had the black eye when he
01:02:59
arrived he told those friends he just woke up with the black eye when authorities later confronted him with
01:03:05
the two stories Flores admitted lying and offered a new explanation he actually hit his eye on
01:03:12
his steering wheel in the middle of the night while changing his stereo so now you've got three different stories about
01:03:18
how he got that black eye he lied to the police about everything Flores claimed after walking Christian back from the
01:03:25
party he went to his room in Santa Lucia Hall while she walked alone to her dorm
01:03:31
but kadaver dogs told a different story just days after taking over the investigation the St Louis abiso
01:03:40
Sheriff's Office brought several dogs like these trained to detect human remains to the calpoly dorms they
01:03:48
brought in the first dog and they had the dog go through the dorms there was no reaction until the dog reached Paul
01:03:57
flores's room they let the dog in the dog makes a beine to the bed of Paul Flores remember flores's room had been
01:04:08
emptied and thoroughly cleaned but remarkably the same thing happened with three more
01:04:16
dogs that suggests that something bad happened in Paul flores's dorm room the Sheriff's Office office still wasn't
01:04:26
convinced they had enough evidence against Flores but Murphy says there were other incidents that should have
01:04:33
raised alarm Bells about him with law enforcement from the very beginning Paul Flores had a reputation amongst the
01:04:41
girls that knew him at calpo as being a creeper that he was always trying to hit
01:04:47
on women in fact Cheryl Anderson who trusted Flores to walk Kristen back to her dorm alone told police that her
01:04:56
friends called him Chester the Molester because he was known for groping girls so with Cheryl's account alone we
01:05:05
have an unsettling picture of Paul just 5 months before Christen disappeared Stan Louis abiso Police
01:05:14
received a call from a student living off campus there was a man climbing her trellis and trying to get inside her
01:05:21
balcony very intoxicated and refusing to leave when they showed up it was Paul Flores no charges were filed but Lambert
01:05:30
discovered flores's troubles started at a young age in high school he was known as a loner Chris Lambert spoke with some
01:05:38
women who knew Flores back then they asked him not to use their names well his nickname was scary Paul you wouldn't
01:05:45
want to be alone in a room with them you wouldn't let any of your friends be drunk around him those were kind of
01:05:50
unspoken things and they told Lambert they weren't surprised when they heard about flores's connection to Kristen's
01:05:58
disappearance I wasn't surprised but there's also that shock value of kind of oh my God I knew it although suspicions
01:06:05
surrounded Flores almost from the beginning any hopes for an arrest were dashed in May
01:06:11
1997 when then Sheriff Ed Williams made an admission to the St Louis abiso Telegraph quote we need Paul Flores to
01:06:20
tell us what happened to Kristen smart so absent something from Mr Flores I don't see us completing this case how
01:06:28
significant was that I think that might have been the biggest misstep that investigators have made to this day
01:06:37
to declare to the public if you stay quiet you will get away with this and six months later when Flores was deposed
01:06:46
by James Murphy for the smarts civil suit he kept quiet would you state your full name for the record please Paul
01:06:54
Ruben Flores the only thing he would confirm on tape is that his name is Paul Flores what is your present resident
01:07:01
address on the advice of my attorney I refused to answer that question based on the Fifth Amendment of the United States
01:07:07
Constitution everything else he took the Fifth Amendment he wouldn't answer a single thing in May of 96 were you a
01:07:14
student at calp on the advice of my attorney he invoked the fifth 27 times what is the
01:07:21
name of your father on theice of my and it worked you just don't talk and you get away with
01:07:29
it Flores wasn't talking but was there evidence possibly placing Kristen smart at his mother's home somebody found an
01:07:38
earring that they say was Kristen Smart's jewelry in the driveway an earring that appeared to
01:07:47
match the necklace Kristen is wearing on this billboard [Applause] when Christen smart disappeared Paul
01:08:07
flores's parents Susan and Reuben were separated and living apart 4 months later while attempting to reconcile
01:08:15
Susan rented out her house in a Royal Grande a young couple moves into it with their kid the mother is washing her car
01:08:22
in the driveway at one point something shiny catches her eye next to the front driver side Tire a single woman's
01:08:29
earring that mother Mary Lasser described it to Chris Lambert it was like a red thing and it was like a
01:08:36
smudged like fingerprint look on the back just red like Maroon like old looking and a smudge that it was like a
01:08:44
half a fingerprint it was turned over to a detective with the S Louis abiso sheriff's office but Garen Sinclair says
01:08:52
the smarts never knew it existed until until the lers were deposed in January 1997 he never once turned to the smart
01:09:01
family and said hey we have an earring we'd like to show it to you to see if it matches any of your daughter's
01:09:07
jewelry the smarts then demanded to see it and that's when they're told that earring has been misplaced misplaced it
01:09:16
was never marked as evidence apparently but Mary Lasher says the earring matched
01:09:21
the necklace Kristen is seen wearing on this billboard if it was in fact a piece of jewelry
01:09:29
that matched Kristen's jewelry it would have been Blockbuster evidence and might
01:09:34
have connected Kristen to Susan flores's house says James Murphy there's no way to get evidence back once you'd lost
01:09:44
it another frustration for the smarts at the time Kristen disappeared investigators weren't aware that Paul
01:09:52
flores's parents were separated and living apart so they did not immediately get a warrant to search Susan flores's
01:10:00
home even more difficult to understand was why they waited 2 months to search this house the family home where Paul
01:10:08
Flores was living with his father Reuben and when they did they didn't bring cadav dogs with them they didn't bring a
01:10:16
forensics team they didn't look at the Flores family's Vehicles they might have found evidence in those
01:10:23
Vehicles Paul Flores did did not have a car on campus so Murphy surmises he had to have had help and it's 2:30 and 3:00
01:10:32
in the morning at Cal Paul this is not a location from which Paul alone could easily move a body without a vehicle but
01:10:43
further investigation of the flores's two trucks seemed impossible and the months after Kristen's disappearance one
01:10:51
truck was traded in the other was reported stolen but it's Susan flores's concrete
01:10:58
backyard that initially received a lot of attention it had been the focus of widespread speculation for more than two
01:11:06
decades especially her planter boxes around the time Kristen disappeared they cut out planter boxes in the backyard so
01:11:14
they cut out big chunks of concrete and filled it in with soil in one of Paul's police interviews he mentioned that he
01:11:22
wanted to be let out of the interview because he needed to help clean up concrete at his mom's house so what was
01:11:28
being done in Susan flores's backyard in the weeks after Kristen went missing Susan's house was finally searched in
01:11:36
March 1997 9 months after Kristen disappeared but nothing was found it would be three more years
01:11:46
before the property was searched again at 8 a.m. on June 19th 2000 a team of Sheriff's investigators knocks on the
01:11:54
front door of Susan flores's East Branch Street home with them is a group of FBI
01:12:01
evidence response team members and a search warrant that warrant allowed them to dig up the backyard but deputies
01:12:08
chose not to excavate Denise Pierce says that was a crushing blow for the smart family to be almost there to think that
01:12:16
you know you're going to finally get some resolution and then you know it doesn't happen the way it's supposed to
01:12:24
devastating and there would be more disappointment in 2007 after the Smart's legal team searched a small portion of
01:12:31
Susan flores's backyard with ground penetrating radar and did not find any evidence they just have never given up
01:12:40
and are never going to give up on their daughter Ruben Flores and his estrange wife Susan have always denied any role
01:12:48
in Christian Smart's disappearance and do you have any information as to where Kristen Smart's body is located
01:12:57
of course not do your husband have any information as to where Kristen Smart's body is located no when they were
01:13:04
deposed by James Murphy they also insisted their son was not involved does your son have any information as to
01:13:12
where Kristen Smart's body is located nope has your son ever told you that he did not kill Kristen smart
01:13:30
we never asked that question we just do you know anything about it he says no through the years the smarts have
01:13:38
kept pressure on the flues family but the flores's have fought back suing the smarts for intentional infliction of
01:13:46
emotional distress like the smarts civil case theirs was also on hold in the meantime Paul Flores moved
01:13:56
to Southern California where he's bounced from job to job but as Chris Lambert learned flores's pattern of
01:14:03
behavior with women didn't stop a couple times I would take a moment he would just oh come on just give me a kiss just
01:14:10
give me a kiss Paul Flores may have wanted a fresh start in Southern California but Chris
01:14:24
Lambert says he could not seem to break old habits Paul worked with a number of women that he made incredibly
01:14:31
uncomfortable girls who he tried to make a pass at sexually um girls that he tried to force to kiss him some of those
01:14:39
women who did not want their real names used told Lambert about their encounters
01:14:44
with him so I walk him up to his sister's apartment and all of a sudden he just like picked me up carried me
01:14:50
inside turned around and shut the apartment door and locked it so I said you better turn some lights on right now
01:14:57
and let me out or I'm going to scream So eventually he unlocked you know the apartment door and I left Lambert also
01:15:04
interviewed a woman who dated Flores until she says he became physically and verbally abusive and he had like a
01:15:12
butter knife and he like held it to my neck and I was screaming and my roommate actually kicked down the door to make
01:15:19
him stop but Paul Flores was never charged with any of these incidents back in San Louis abiso the
01:15:28
smarts feeling ignored by the Sheriff's Office continued a Relentless campaign to get them to do more to find their
01:15:36
daughter what toll over time did this have on your parents I think they're like carrying Boulders on their back
01:15:44
then in 2011 Ian Parkinson was elected Sheriff if you were making a film about a new law enforcer who's coming to a
01:15:53
small town to save the day you'd probably cast Parkinson he promised the smarts that
01:15:59
solving Kristen's case would be a priority I committed to them that I was going to go back to the beginning and
01:16:06
reexamine every piece of evidence that we had but Parkinson acknowledges it hasn't been easy there was early
01:16:14
mistakes made that you can't recover from when you're missing those vital pieces is this a case that takes a
01:16:22
miracle to solve I hope not since Parkinson came on the scene investigators have dug up hillsides
01:16:30
searched the homes and properties of all the flores's collected evidence seized Paul
01:16:36
flores' computers monitored his cell phone and text messages and found new Witnesses some with the help of Chris
01:16:44
Lambert I brought them a number of witnesses that they were very interested in I also brought them witnesses that
01:16:49
they had no interest in whatsoever and then months and months later they'd reach back out and say can you get us in
01:16:54
touch with this person again in April 2021 investigators finally put the pieces of the puzzle together and
01:17:02
decided they had enough to charge the then 44-year-old Paul Flores with christen's murder and his then
01:17:08
80-year-old father as being an accessory after the fact the allegation against Reuben is that he helped to conceal
01:17:16
Kristen's body after the murder was committed s Louis abiso County district attorney Dan da we don't have evidence
01:17:25
sufficient to charge anyone else at this time but the investigation is ongoing and for the first time clues about what
01:17:32
may have happened to Kristen smart forensic physical evidence was located and yes we believe it's it's linked to
01:17:41
Christen um and yes we did find physical evidence at at least two homes like what
01:17:47
may have been discovered in March 2021 when investigators searched Reuben flores's house using daver doogs and
01:17:56
ground penetrating radar they did a significant amount of digging underneath the house they took in soil I assume for
01:18:03
some kind of analysis according to a County Probation bail report obtained by the Stan Louis abiso Tribune biological
01:18:11
evidence was found under Ruben's deck the question for decades was well where did the body go Murphy has filed an
01:18:19
additional civil suit against Ruben Flores and others for the intentional inflict of emotional distress and the
01:18:27
complaint has some claims about what led investigators to focus under Ruben's deck in the first place the podcast is
01:18:36
out people are watching Ruben Flores and Susan Flores and Paul Flores suddenly major pieces of evidence came forward an
01:18:48
important tip came in after a February 2020 search of Paul Susan and Ruben's property
01:18:55
Murphy alleges four nights later strange activity was seen at Reuben's house and
01:19:01
I witnessed actually documented the fact that throughout the night there was activity in the area of
01:19:09
the underside of that deck I'm not at Liberty to describe how it was documented but I've seen
01:19:17
it that witness initially came forward to Chris Lambert who passed the information to the Sheriff's Office
01:19:25
and Murphy in his complaint Murphy alleges along with Reuben there were two other unnamed individuals but he says
01:19:34
they are Ruben's ex-wife Susan and her boyfriend so why would Susan Flores her boyriend and and Reuben Flores be up all
01:19:44
night long working under that deck the lawsuit claims they were moving Kristen's Remains the location where all
01:19:54
this activ occurred is where they found the biological materials and the body's not
01:20:00
there now and there are more horrifying allegations about what may have happened
01:20:05
to Kristen after she was last seen with Paul Flores it is alleged that Mr Flor has caused the death of Kristen smart
01:20:14
while in the commission of or attempted rape because of the statute of limitations Dao says Paul Flores cannot
01:20:23
be charged with rape but the allegation that he was committing or attempting to commit a
01:20:28
rape when he killed her is the basis for which we are able to file first-degree felony murder charges authorities made
01:20:36
clear that they plan to use flores's alleged predatory behavior against him we intend to use evidence of other
01:20:44
sexual crimes in this prosecution to prove uh the facts necessary for the attempted rape in this case and
01:20:51
according to that probation report dozens of women have recounted Paul flores's sexual assaults and predatory
01:20:58
behavior that document his 25 years as a serial rapist he has not been charged in
01:21:05
those incidents we have evidence that we do believe there are other people that are not yet identified that have had a
01:21:12
some kind of a criminal act perpetrated on them by Mr Flores 48 Hours has learned these suspicions center around
01:21:20
evidence found during that 2020 search of Paul flores's home sources tell us investigators discovered photographs and
01:21:28
videos on flores's computer showing him engaged in sexual activity with at least
01:21:34
10 different women apparently in various States Of Consciousness Paul Flores and his father
01:21:41
both pleaded not guilty to all charges at their arraignment Ruben's attorney Harold Messi dismissed the evidence
01:21:48
against his client as quote so minimal as to shock the conscience he later argued that the biological
01:21:57
evidence found under the deck was not conclusively human blood and DNA evidence could not be found linking any
01:22:04
other evidence to Christen Susan Flores and her boyfriend were never charged in the case Reuben Flores was released on
01:22:13
$50,000 bail to his ex-wife he was required to wear an electronic ankle bracelet but Paul Flores remained Behind
01:22:21
Bars without bail to see them in custody was a feeling of great joy for me my job
01:22:29
was to hunt them and that's what I've been doing for a long long time along with a lot of
01:22:36
other people that's been our goal it is also what the smarts have been waiting for for more than a quarter
01:22:46
of a [Music] century Chris Lambert says they're cautiously optimistic they're hopeful
01:22:55
but they've also been let down so many times before I think they are just waiting to see what the outcome is going
01:23:01
to be they're interested in seeing Paul Flores get convicted and Ruben Flores get held
01:23:07
[Music] accountable most importantly they want to find their daughter [Music] 48 Hours don't miss an episode
01:23:51
[Music] it was a complete mystery this is a shocking crime you know the kind of shooting that you would
01:24:37
think you'd only see in the movies you could even call it a coldblooded Ambush I'm herela arawi her arawi I'm a
01:24:48
reporter with CBS Los Angeles this happened in the mountains east of LA way up in the
01:24:55
mountains this guy dressed as a delivery man goes up to this home he knocks on the door when the guy who's supposed to
01:25:03
take the package comes to the door he pulls out a gun and he shoots three or four
01:25:10
times we then learned that the victim was a lawyer his name was Mark angelucci angelucci died right there at
01:25:19
the scene I couldn't stop thinking about Mark I would would wake up in tears with
01:25:27
my pillow already soaked just knowing that I now live in a world without Mark I'll never see him
01:25:36
again I'm Cassie J and I'm a dear friend of Mark angelucci he was just a Down to Earth at
01:25:45
the center of his soul a good-hearted person did your mind start racing about who could have done this I didn't want
01:25:53
to jump to any conclusion that this was planned cuz it was Mark it was everyone loved
01:26:00
Mark just 8 days after Mark angelucci was murdered another crime took place about 2,800 miles away in Suburban New
01:26:09
Jersey it seemed like an exact copy The Delivery Man the gunshots I was notified that a shooting
01:26:17
had occurred at a federal judge's residence New Jersey I'm Joe denan FBI New York field office police telling us
01:26:25
that that gunman was dressed up as a delivery man when he rang the doorbell here at their home right here behind me
01:26:30
when want to hurt the judge or who would want to hurt someone in her family her College age son sustained a gunshot
01:26:40
wound to the chest I get a call from one of my friends he's like there's an article that Dan was shot go to Google
01:26:48
right now so I go to Google and sure enough there's article after article after article just descri describing
01:26:54
what's happening nothing inside of me believed it because I couldn't get over the fact I'd seen him 5 hours before
01:27:01
there's no way this is happening every article was saying that Dan had passed away at the scene there was one that had
01:27:08
said no like he's in the hospital he's in bad shape but he's alive and that was the article that everyone was clinging
01:27:16
to Like There's Hope what ended up happening was a man had come to their door to drop off a package
01:27:25
that man was not a FedEx employee that was a very bad man two heinous but similar crimes on
01:27:37
opposite sides of the country were they connected we did not have the subject in
01:27:42
Pocket we had no idea who it was you know you have a violent and unstable person so we were aggressively preparing
01:27:50
for that possible confrontation [Music] [Music] [Music] documentary filmmaker Cassie Jay still
01:28:52
has a hard time grasping that her close friend Mark angelucci is dead we almost had a kind of brother sisterly love for
01:29:03
each other and respect and he was my biggest protector and also my biggest [Music]
01:29:16
cheerleader angelucci had been living in Cedar Pines Park California a sleepy little village here in the San berino
01:29:22
Mountains east of Los Angeles it was broad daylight when he came to his door to sign for that package on
01:29:28
July 11th 2020 the 52-year-old attorney never had a chance he was shot Point [Music]
01:29:39
Blank this looked like a targeted assassination herela aragi reported the story for CBS 2 Los Angeles cuz it was
01:29:49
actually someone else who answered the door but the delivery man insisted that Angelou she sign for the package
01:29:56
detectives would learn that the shooter had used a 380 caliber handgun but had precious few clues about his identity he
01:30:03
got away in a white car before anyone could stop him it was at the time a complete mystery to everyone the
01:30:12
detectives couldn't tell us much the sheriff's department didn't have much either Cassie was nearly 500 mil away at
01:30:21
her home in Marin County tell tell us about Mark who was markk angelucci oh if you could think of the most humble
01:30:35
sincere fun that was Mark and all of his friends will tell you that Mark was popular and photos he
01:30:43
posted online show his Spirit but he never married nor had any children a sought after attorney his
01:30:53
passion was his work so when you say prominent attorney I picture fancy suit nice car big house was that Mark not at
01:31:05
all I mean he couldn't be more opposite than that he had a beat up car old gar uh he was not a materialistic person by
01:31:15
any means and he had a rare and controversial specialty gender discrimination against men he often
01:31:23
spoke at conferences I believe we need to hold people accountable for false accusations and not just talk about it I
01:31:30
met Mark when I went to interview him for my feature documentary The Red Pill which is about the men's rights
01:31:37
movement and at the time I was very skeptical I had been working on films about women's issues uh my entire adult
01:31:48
life why do you think men's issues have been ignored for so long I think there are number of reasons I mean one of them
01:31:56
is simply that men are conditioned not to complain as much especially if it's about a gender issue Mark was not making
01:32:04
a case for male Supremacy she says what's more he was not like the men she met who came to the men's rights
01:32:11
movement after going through a bitter divorce or custody battle and so it was more of
01:32:16
a uh fight for justice in his eyes that we should all be treated equally domestic violence you're starting you're
01:32:23
seeing more and more awareness about male victims and false accusations father's custody rights I think it's
01:32:30
it's all a very slow process but we are seeing awareness Mark won Cassie over not only as an advocate but as a human
01:32:37
being and in the few hours long interview with him I just adored him by the end of it
01:32:45
he was just so engaging of all men's rights activists I met he was really a unique character so he didn't hate women
01:32:53
oh no no no no Mark Mark was strictly about fairness Justice equality no matter their gender he was
01:33:04
there to stand up for the underdog and since those so-called underdogs were often underfunded she says a lot of his
01:33:12
work was pro bono and he did most of that work for free yes I know it's really shocking and kind of hard to
01:33:20
believe but he wasn't motivated by money when cass's film was finished she kept talking with Mark he would just ramble
01:33:28
on and on and on and about everything that he had worked on but then he would also want to ask me everything about my
01:33:35
life and we could just talk for Endless hours he was curious about you too it wasn't all about him oh yeah he was one
01:33:43
of her most cherished Friends by the time she got married in 2018 he made the six or seven hour drive
01:33:51
in my eyes he just had to be there I mean he was really became a part of my family he he really was a big part of my
01:33:58
life now that someone took his life Cassie wanted to know why I mean immediately I kind of went
01:34:05
into detective mode I was trying to make sense of who could do something so awful
01:34:11
to mark of all people he didn't have any enemies as far as you knew exactly and and I I really wanted to
01:34:19
hold space for it just being this fluke maybe even accidental murder but she did
01:34:27
wonder if Mark's Work made him a Target I started digging into the different cases that he was involved in I realized
01:34:38
that he was defending defenseless people in difficult situations innocent people
01:34:46
without a lot of money who were going up against very powerful people with a lot of money
01:34:53
police said the motive was unknown and hoped someone would come forward with a tip this was a strange crime they knew
01:35:01
that a killer was out there they didn't know who they didn't know why they did have a well-founded fear
01:35:08
that the killer would strike again and sure enough far away a nearly identical crime was about to take place police are
01:35:17
still here at the scene they have had this entire Street blocked off my whole body gave out I was like
01:35:26
this isn't happening and I was like no like this this can't be true nearly 3,000 M away from the
01:35:41
California town where Mark angelucci was murdered a family of a well-respected judge in Suburban New Jersey was about
01:35:49
to be blindsided by another vicious attack do you confirm that the oath you're about to take Esther Salis was
01:35:57
the state's first Latina federal judge I took an oath and I stand by that oath I
01:36:03
follow the law when she testified at her Senate nomination Hearing in 2011 her family was at her side here is my
01:36:11
husband Mark anderl uh my son Daniel who's uh really excited and he wanted me to make sure that that that Madam Madam
01:36:19
chairwoman that you knew that he got permission from his principal to be here Mary Louise Daniel their only child was
01:36:27
just 10 at the time I can tell he's very proud of you he has a big smile on US federal judge sales's life story is
01:36:35
inspiring she was raised with four siblings by an immigrant mother in a small apartment at age 10 she rescued
01:36:43
the family cat from a fire that left them homeless through it all she diligently pursued her education and she
01:36:49
was a law intern when she fell in love with attorney Mark Andre he's highly energetic easily distracted
01:36:59
hardworking um and a lot of fun to work with David Oakley Mark's law partner is a close family friend there's only three
01:37:07
of them and they were so close-knit and so affectionate Mark had a demanding workload and his wife often handled
01:37:19
hundreds of criminal and civil cases simultaneously but they both always had time for Daniel who shared his father's
01:37:27
passion for sports Dan and is on in relief Joe Augustine coached Daniel in baseball for 10 years Dan was the
01:37:36
ultimate [Applause] teammate he always came prepared he always came with energy and his talent was promising but
01:37:48
after graduating high school Daniel chose not to participate in college sports he was committed to following in his
01:37:55
parents' footsteps he made a very conscious decision to focus on his studies he definitely decided to try to
01:38:05
Aspire to law school in 2018 he went off to the Catholic University of America in
01:38:11
Washington DC his parents remained as involved in his life as ever I have never met a kid who speaks more highly
01:38:19
of his parents he his mom and his dad were his best friends in the world and he would let you know that classmates
01:38:26
cat Haley and Sarah Peterson say Daniel was a friend they could count on there was a bug in our room at 2: in the
01:38:33
morning and we were terrified we were like Dan get over here right now he hops on his electric skateboard and is over
01:38:39
within 30 seconds in his pajamas ready to kill the bug and then he was like okay anything
01:38:45
else we literally have a video of him dancing in the rain and if that doesn't like explain his character I don't know
01:38:52
what does [Laughter] College continued to be a blast in New York City the virus is spreading so fast
01:39:02
but then came March 2020 and Co people are concerned there will not be enough resources to fight the disease we went
01:39:10
home for spring break and then they made the announcement you're not coming back
01:39:15
it was weird going from seeing someone every single day to just all of a sudden just nothing that summer as Daniel's
01:39:24
20th birthday neared he was sorely missing his friends his parents worried about the pandemic but felt if everyone
01:39:31
adhered to guidelines those friends could come visit for the weekend it was really awesome really
01:39:38
nice Matthew Ziggler one of Daniel's best friends arrived like the others on Friday July 17th we were just hanging
01:39:46
out outside mostly it was very nice out I'm and his parents were actually catering dinner for us there
01:39:53
picture of federal judge and obviously she's very professional but she's very friendly we were chatting about boys and
01:39:59
about what I wanted to do in the future she really took us under her wing for a couple Blissful days there were no signs
01:40:05
of trouble we were just so happy to all finally see each other it was incredible
01:40:10
and when they bid Daniel goodbye that Sunday they had no inkling how Bittersweet those moments would become
01:40:18
and he was like all right love you I said love you too and that was kind of the last conversation uh we ended up
01:40:23
having all he kept saying that weekend was this is the best weekend of my life hours later judge Salis says she and
01:40:29
Daniel were still riding high as they cleaned up the basement the weekend was a glorious one
01:40:36
she would later release this video telling what happened next and we were chatting as we always
01:40:43
do and Daniel said Mom let's keep talking I love talking to you Mom and it was that exact moment that
01:40:55
the doorbell rang upstairs Mark peered out to see a man holding a package we saw some FedEx
01:41:04
guy thought it was odd it was Sunday but then again Esther got a lot of fedexes because you know Co and the courts being
01:41:12
shut down and Daniel looked at me and said who is that and before I could say a word he sprinted upstairs Daniel came
01:41:22
springing up the stair from the basement and open the door within seconds I heard the sound of bullets and
01:41:34
someone screaming no [Music] [Music] as we were rolling out to the location I certainly had a feeling that we were in
01:42:04
Uncharted Territory here on July 19th 2020 FBI Incident Commander Joe denahan was sent on an urgent call there was a
01:42:14
shooting at judge Esther Sal's home in New Jersey the details were daunting an individual had rang the doorbell had
01:42:22
asked asked Danny judge Sal's son to go get judge Sal so she could sign for an envelope a delivery um and at that point
01:42:31
a shooting began almost immediately right there in the foyer of their house just a few inches in from the front door
01:42:37
by the time Esther Salas got upstairs from the basement the shooter was gone Mark her husband of 25 years had
01:42:46
been shot three times and was critically injured their son was shot in the chest
01:42:52
they watched his life fade away my family has experienced a pain that no one should
01:43:01
ever have to endure as Mark was rushed to the hospital investigators got to work I
01:43:09
think terrorism is always something we consider immediately it was certainly at the Forefront of our mind we just didn't
01:43:14
know if it was something that was an organized group or a single lone offender a lone offender might be
01:43:20
someone who held a grudge against one of Daniel's parents parents it is still unclear if judge Salis was the intended
01:43:26
target or her husband we had several people who had made uh either derogatory or borderline threatening comments to
01:43:34
the judge and we began to do profile workups on all those individuals Mark had briefly seen the shooter but could
01:43:40
not describe him well he described as best he could he sustained a very very serious gunshot wound to the abdomen he
01:43:47
was alive he said because of his son as he told his friend David Oakley Daniel died a hero he said he remember Daniel
01:43:57
raising his arms um and getting shot and falling back Daniel being Daniel protected his
01:44:11
father and he took the shooters first bullet directly to the chest judge Salis and Mark Ander were
01:44:21
left with an unbearable loss they'd lived through four heartbreaking miscarriages and called Daniel their
01:44:28
miracle baby he was the center of their Universe while my husband is still in the hospital recovering from his
01:44:36
multiple surgeries we are living every parents's worst nightmare making preparations to bury bury our only child
01:44:50
Daniel he was also mourned by his friends initial reaction was kind of just sitting in my family room with my
01:44:56
family and just praying um it was probably the hardest thing I've ever had to go through still going
01:45:09
through it's horrible I can't even imagine who would do this and who would want to do this to
01:45:15
such an innocent kid investigators were anxious to find out within a day the case was in high
01:45:23
gear police are still searching for the gunman who got away with multiple federal and state agencies conducting
01:45:34
investigations at the same time 150 Mi away on a remote Road in New York State's Catskill Mountains another case
01:45:43
was just beginning Reagan Road is a dead end Road in a a very rural section of Northern Sullivan County State Police
01:45:52
police captain Brian Webster says his Troopers responded to a call and found a dead man with a bullet in his
01:46:00
head his body lay in the grass near an unoccupied car he had a wallet with photo identification on him the dead man
01:46:09
was Roy Den Hollander a 72-year-old attorney who lived in New York City it didn't ring any any bells I didn't know
01:46:17
the name who killed this outof town lawyer and why here [Music] murders are rare in this area and if
01:46:28
that's what this was the cops had their work cut out for them but the evidence at the scene pointed to something else
01:46:36
there's a Walther semi-automatic pistol located in in very close proximity to the deceased subject there it appeared
01:46:42
that he had a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the Head suicide is something that we handle all the time and one
01:46:49
particular item in the car was alarming they had found a FedEx envelope that was
01:46:55
addressed to judge Esther Salis in New Jersey and the investigator who actually finds the envelope uh was familiar with
01:47:03
recent news reporting he had known that Esther Salis was a federal judge whose son was recently murdered Chopper 2
01:47:11
shows investigators swarming the scene Webster immediately reported the apparent suicide to the FBI he had used
01:47:19
a 380 caliber handgun and the 380 was the same caliber that was used at the judge's home as unexpected as this was
01:47:27
the evidence seemed clear Roy Dan Hollander shot Mark and Daniel Andel then drove to Upstate New York and took
01:47:35
his own life he was unusual in this in a certain sense you know being 72 years old Highly Educated attorney member of
01:47:43
the bar but when police began looking through other items in his car they discovered even more evidence that the
01:47:50
now dead New York attorney was a killer they found an address a residence in a small village in the mountains east
01:47:59
of Los Angeles when we ran the address through we realized that there was a murder that had occurred at that
01:48:07
address that murder victim was Mark angelucci the California attorney gunned down by his front door just 8 days
01:48:14
before the attack in New Jersey the details were chillingly familiar he had to sign for a package when the victim
01:48:22
arrived the front door he was shot with a 38 caliber handgun the California detectives had been styed now Roy Dan
01:48:29
Hollander appeared to be responsible for that crime too it was a mystery for San
01:48:35
bero County Sheriff's Office they had uh no subjects at the time but they were actively working it and they partnered
01:48:40
well with us so working closely with them um I think we're able to piece together a lot of the puzzle Dan
01:48:46
Hollander did have the opportunity investigators learned that in early July he had Tak a cross country train
01:48:54
trip to Los Angeles here at Union train station in downtown Los Angeles Den Hollander
01:49:00
walked right through those doors he was caught on surveillance camera here's the
01:49:04
picture authorities match this photo with another image taken at another train station Just 4 days earlier in San
01:49:11
Bernardino east of Los Angeles investigators say that's Dan Hollander wearing a mask and calmly carrying a cup
01:49:18
of coffee that train station was just 20 m from angelucci home the timeline fit after the murder as California
01:49:28
detectives searched for Clues Dan Hollander was on his way back East ultimately to judge sales's home it's
01:49:37
terrifying to think that there are people out there who are capable of these sorts of of crimes FBI
01:49:44
investigators were convinced that Roy Dan Hollander committed both of these crimes but they had no motive and they
01:49:51
didn't know why he chose these victims who lived so far apart there was a lot to learn about the coldblooded killer
01:49:59
and his troubled past that included a stint in Moscow a Russian model even a televised Street brawl
01:50:09
leave the guy alone oh my God [Music] the FBI believed that the three incidents were linked the murder of a
01:50:29
san berardino county attorney is connected to a deadly shooting at a federal judge's home in New Jersey two
01:50:35
harrowing crimes Mark angelucci was killed 2,800 M apart what caused a man to open fire inside a federal judge's
01:50:43
home in New Jersey and one suicide Roy Den Hollander discovered dead in his C today on a far away Dead End Road
01:50:52
a multi-state homicide investigation is not something that that we deal with very
01:51:00
often after attorney Roy Dan Hollander took his own life the agents later found a lengthy online manuscript he left
01:51:07
behind part Memoir part Manifesto we were dealing with an unstable person who I think is fair to say was a coward he
01:51:16
was a ticking Time Bomb hiding in plain sight but he had once had a successful career care Roy was a very
01:51:27
personable articulate affable guy Joe Serio met Den Hollander in Moscow it was 1999 and siio worked for
01:51:39
an American consulting firm there overseeing its investigations Dan Hollander was a new hire he had bit of
01:51:47
Charisma about him Dan Hollander had an impressive resume he once worked for a dig just law firm and had earned an Ivy
01:51:55
League MBA this is a guy who apparently is successful and he's in good shape even so something seemed off he also
01:52:05
dyed his hair and he have nothing against dying hair but he told us why why because he could pick up Babes
01:52:15
easier that way babes that the word he used a lot and my idea of what a 50-year-old is and how they should be
01:52:21
quote unquote conduct ing themselves it wasn't matching up Dan Hollander wasted no time hitting
01:52:29
Russian bars and clubs it was an obsession it was he he was fixated on women and going out and chatting up
01:52:39
women dancing with women picking up women Serio whose new book is titled vodka hookers and the Russian mafia my
01:52:46
life in Moscow recognized the risk at the time Russia was in the throws of political and economic upheaval I've
01:52:55
been here for 10 years you just parachuted in I know what happens to foreigners who go chasing women what
01:53:04
happens to them they get drugged they get robbed every once in a while they got killed in this case that didn't
01:53:11
happen Den Hollander stayed in Russia for a year married a 24-year-old woman named Alina and moved back to the states
01:53:19
with her what did he tell you about her he talked about her body she was a model
01:53:25
apparently or Model status you know that kind of a body that kind of attractiveness these photos of Alina
01:53:31
were on Den hollander's website the union was contentious and short-lived they filed for divorce both
01:53:39
claiming cruel treatment in his Memoir Dan Hollander rips into his ex-wife calling her a poison dragon one of the
01:53:48
themes that we saw was he was a very angry person and he was a misogynist and he blamed women for the failures of his
01:53:56
life it would take about this much paper 2,000 pages to print Dan hollander's entire manuscript it's largely a
01:54:06
hate-filled diet tribe against females starting with his mother and extending to women in positions of power let me
01:54:13
read you just a couple lines from it as for that most virulent form of female evil the feminazis I despise them
01:54:21
despise them for for the harm they've intentionally done to Men He vows to fight them until his last breath when I
01:54:29
was reading his his Manifesto I was imagining a person walking into a pool and he's walking into this pool his
01:54:35
whole life after his divorce Dan Hollander began filing a flurry of lawsuits aimed to eliminate what he saw
01:54:43
as female privilege most notably ladies nights at bars the person who might be taken advantage of is me girls have
01:54:52
power they've always had power let's go dance somebody argued ladies nights and bars is a benefit to men so why in God's
01:55:04
name are you trying to get rid of that but he saw it as he saw it as just another way
01:55:11
those are cutting out the legs from underneath men the self-described anti-feminist lawyer became a go-to guy
01:55:20
for provocative media stories you're Ang very angry eats more oh absolutely but only against the feminist all right it's
01:55:28
obvious to everyone outside of him that none of this makes him look good he's losing cases he's losing
01:55:38
decisions and sometimes he lost his composure as seen here when he was shooting a profile with a French TV crew
01:55:50
and took his anger to the street leave guy oh my God but do you think there was also a part of him that
01:56:06
realized people were laughing at him or at least rolling their eyes at him I don't know how he could not have seen it
01:56:11
the last time you went out whose car was it who paid for the taxi who paid for the dinner and then look back my sh tabs
01:56:20
in my in my time in my life thank you very much well what are you doing tonight then Den Hollander wrote that he
01:56:26
was diagnosed with a deadly form of melanoma in 2018 he berated his doctors and continued his
01:56:36
rants in July 20120 his rage turned deadly why did he go after Mark angelucci in Roy's mind Mark was guilty
01:56:45
of encroaching on Roy's territory Angeli's hard work had been paying off he had made some progress in court with
01:56:54
male discrimination cases involving the all male military draft Mark didn't even
01:57:00
realize that he was in danger that this guy had a grudge I don't think so Cassie
01:57:05
J didn't realize it either although she'd spent considerable time researching men's rights had you ever
01:57:11
heard of this guy Roy Dan Hollander no I've never heard of him he's never come across my radar he wasn't embraced by
01:57:18
the men's rights movement no one referred him to me as for Esther Salis investigators
01:57:25
believe she was targeted because Den Hollander blamed her wrongly for slowing down one of his lawsuits in spewing
01:57:34
hate-filled words he called her a quote lazy and incompetent Latina Judge David Oakley is still trying to make sense of
01:57:43
the damage Den Hollander caused people are capable of evil it's often probably very difficult to distinguish it from
01:57:52
derangement but there is evil and of course there could be some kind of combination of the two this was not one
01:57:59
of those cases where you you would say oh this is the last person I would expect to do something it wasn't that it
01:58:05
made sense no one knows why Roy Dan Hollander chose to drive to this remote part of
01:58:13
the cat skills but when he was a child his family had a vacation home nearby as FBI agents continued going
01:58:23
through those papers left at the scene they found other unsettling leads more names we did uncover a list of a large
01:58:32
number of individuals somewhere in the legal field somewhere in the medical [Music]
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field there is no publicly known evidence that Roy Dan Hollander harmed anyone other than the known victims but
01:58:56
investigators were unnerved to find papers in his car with yet more names including other judges and people in the
01:59:04
medical field we always assumed a various intent with someone like this and so we wanted to make sure that
01:59:11
although we didn't think there was any existing threat to them anymore we wanted to let them know um that their
01:59:17
name was found on this list FBI a concluded that the 72-year-old attorney had acted alone we
01:59:26
know a great deal about Mr Hollander uh we spent you know hundreds of hours analyzing his
01:59:33
writings his website had a lot of sexist racist hate speech on it you said that the men's Rights Movement is not angry
01:59:45
white men with a chip on their shoulder about women and yet this guy was an angry White man with a chip on his
01:59:53
shoulder about women if you want an example royen Hollander wrote a book and he dedicated it to his mom may she burn
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in hell despite the grudge he held against Mark Angeli Cassie J says the killer was
02:00:10
nowhere near Mark's equal as an advocate what are the big cases that he took on for men's rights so one of his
02:00:18
proudest accomplishments was he sued the state of California for refusing to fund
02:00:24
services for male victims of domestic violence and he won that case uh on equal protection clause in
02:00:34
California Mark scored other legal victories she says but never lost his sense of humanity he lived a life that
02:00:43
we should all strive to emulate and anyone who knew him were were better for it Daniel Andel barely made it to age 20
02:01:01
but he too lived a purposeful life he would always be one of the first people I'd go to for advice about
02:01:08
anything and he was always there to listen he was such a good listener he truly is one of the best people I've
02:01:16
ever met in my entire life we were always texting each other like if anything bad was going on it was hey
02:01:21
like let me talk to really quick like just let me get your opinions the quality that I admired about him most
02:01:26
was his ability to love others and his ability to love even when he was hurt by others he was a very low stress guy and
02:01:33
it was I think it was because he just lived in the present moment so well his friends all remember that
02:01:40
tight-knit relationship he had with his mother and father he was so proud of his parents he
02:01:46
loved what they did his mom was a federal judge of New Jersey he was ecstatic and he talked about her
02:01:52
accomplishments and his father's accomplishments all the [Music] time I just want to be there and support
02:02:03
them in any way I can David Oakley is eager to help his friends he was Daniel's Godfather and they shared a deep
02:02:13
Devotion to their faith I have direct evidence that he died heroically that he had a a holy
02:02:24
death and so I have no hesitation about praying to Daniel and I have been there is nobody else I know that
02:02:34
would do something like that except for Dan to sacrifice his own life to save someone else and it was instinctual for
02:02:40
him in that moment he knew this is what I have to do this is what I'm going to do 7 months after taking three bullets
02:02:48
Mark andal is still recovering he's on the menend but it's a very slow slow process he and judge Salis have now
02:02:58
found a way to have Daniel's goodwi live on my son's death cannot be in vain the judge says the shooter was
02:03:10
looking for her that day and had no problem finding her at her own home the free flow of information from
02:03:18
the internet allowed this sick and depraved human being to find all our personal
02:03:26
information and Target us she and her husband have been fighting hard to change that and in November 2020 they
02:03:34
scored a major victory New Jersey governor signed a new law named for their son I am honored today to sign
02:03:42
Daniel's law judge the law prohibits making the home address of Judges available to the public Daniel's law
02:03:50
will make a difference it will protect judges from senseless acts of violence it's a fitting Legacy she
02:04:01
says in the seconds before his death Daniel asked me to keep talking to him because he loved talking to
02:04:13
me well Daniel on behalf of all New Jersey judges I thank you son [Music] for all you have
02:04:24
done this is now the law of the land judge Salis and Mark andil are now taking Daniel's law to the US Congress
02:04:35
using it as a model for what they hope will become a federal law they remain as devoted to their son as
02:04:44
ever I am profoundly moved by seeing how Mark and Es are dealing with this unspeakable
02:04:58
event they've turned it into something positive for [Music] others 48 Hours don't miss an episode
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