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Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your [music] host Anne Marie Green, and today we're discussing the Hahn family murders. In
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March of 2016, the bodies of Dr. Henry Hahn, his wife Jenny, [music] and their 5-year-old daughter Emily were
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discovered wrapped in plastic in the family's garage. Now, there is a lot to get into here. So, joining me now is 48
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Hours correspondent Natalie Morales, who worked on this hour. Natalie, thanks for
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joining us again. Thanks for having me once again, Anne Marie. And of course, a reminder to everyone
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that if you haven't listened to the 48 Hours episode that we're about to discuss, head on over to your podcast
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feed. You'll find the full audio version there. Take a listen, and then come on back. So, shortly after police
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discovered the bodies of Dr. Hahn and his wife Jenny and their daughter, a trail of evidence led them to Pierre
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Houbrechts. He's a former business associate of Dr. Hahn's. And in the hour, the prosecutor called Pierre a
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lying liar who lies about lying. It certainly seems like he was able to spin stories quite well, well enough to,
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I mean, endear himself to some pretty smart people. What do we actually know about Pierre
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though and his connection to Dr. Hahn? Well, Dr. Henry Hahn had hired Pierre to develop a CBD product, and it was part
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of his new business venture that he had started with a couple of other partners,
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but he then fired Pierre once he discovered that Pierre had been using his credit card to charge for escort
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services among other things on his business account. However, just weeks before the
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murders, it seemed like Pierre was able to get back into Henry's good graces. Now, prosecutors, as you mentioned,
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describe him as a lying liar who lies about lying, and they describe him as a career con man.
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I should point out he was never convicted of previous cons, but Pierre did tell authorities though that
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he didn't have a college degree, but he lived in a college town in Arizona. He would go to the library a lot. He was
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self-taught. He was fascinated with the idea of energy and technology. According
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to prosecutors, this wasn't his first con. Allegedly, Pierre had duped a group of investors in Arizona into giving him
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money to build this so-called perpetual energy machine, and his story then just grew from there. You know, Pierre's like
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one of those sort of characters that we see that you think, "Gosh, you were able to endear
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yourself to many, many people who are smart and who are good with money, if only you had funneled that in a
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different direction, you know?" But let's talk about this perpetual energy machine. Pierre's own attorney said in
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the hour that you don't have to be a scientist to know that a perpetual energy machine does not exist.
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>> Yeah, it it implies it just, you know, creates its its own energy source. So,
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according to the prosecution, Pierre apparently did demonstrations for this group of investors back in Arizona.
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However, in those demos, twice they found an external energy source that was sort of plugged into this so-called
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perpetual energy machine. The first time apparently there was, you know, like a car battery that it was connected to,
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and the second time investors actually traced back and they found what were like
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wires running underground into this prototype. So, you know, we did try to reach out to these investors in Arizona.
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Unfortunately, we didn't hear back from any of them. I think what was particularly
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challenging about this hour is, of course, you know, there's a young child who's killed. Like he he he kills the
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entire family, and I was hoping as the hour was unfolding to hear, "And they found Emily in the bedroom sleeping," or
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something like that. I just I thought, "Why a child?" I think that's the hardest thing to try to understand,
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wiping out the whole family the way he did. And little Emily, who was just 3 days shy of her sixth birthday. You
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know, it's hard to believe that money was purely the motive here, but prosecutors believe that Pierre had
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targeted Henry Hahn because he was flat broke. I think he had $500 left in his bank account, according to the
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prosecutor. Also, Pierre was apparently desperate for a real relationship, so much to the point
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as we told you, he was hiring escorts to have companionship, and apparently he fell in love, according to the
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prosecutor, with one of the escorts, and outright gave that that escort a $10,000
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payment. So, there went more money. Now, Pierre had told people, including his friend T.J. Darretta, that he wanted
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to move to Russia because he felt he clicked more with the women there. And Pierre's friend, T.J., also told
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investigators that Pierre confessed to him, as you saw in the hour, about the murders. But he said in that confession
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that his his motive was purely financial, that he planned to drain the money out of Dr. Henry Hahn's account.
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He said that, you know, as long as he felt like he kept making these transfers, perhaps
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no one would be the wiser for it. You know, once he did start to try to make those transfers, I believe the first
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amount was $72,000 that he tried to take out of Dr. Henry Hahn's account. Well, that triggered a bank fraud alert, as
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you would hope the banks are on to this kind of thing, and that transaction never went through. I mean, I don't know
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why he thought that would work. I literally get a bank fraud alert when I try to buy like a train ticket. I mean,
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the the banks are really sensitive to this stuff these days, right? So, Right, especially this went against Dr. Hahn's
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usual, I mean, if usually if there were big transfers like that, maybe it would pass, but in this case, Dr. Henry Hahn
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wasn't that kind of man to just transfer that amount of money like that. So, here's the thing about the scene. This
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is a guy who, you know, thinks he's planned everything out, but then he's left with a very, I mean, messy crime
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scene that he he tries to clean up, but he's kind of unsuccessful. Investigators
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find bleach stains and bloody sheets in the laundry room, and very quickly police zero in on Pierre as a person of
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interest. Yeah, I mean, that's right. The prosecutors believe that, you know, Pierre's plan was to get rid of the
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bodies, to clean up the scene, make it look like the Hahns were actually missing instead of dead. But he doesn't
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account for the weight of the bodies and being able to fit the bodies, all three
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of them, in his car. Keep in mind, there was this business meeting that very next
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morning, and Mark and Marla Palumbo, friends and business partners of Dr. Hahn's, they start to call and they're
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worried, and that's when they send Don Goldberg, you know, who's such a good friend of Dr. Hahn's, to go check out
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the house, and that's when investigators are then called to the house, and they discover the bodies and this horrific
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crime scene. The other kind of component to this investigation is that there was a huge
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amount of digital evidence that led investigators to Pierre. So, this is a guy who's supposed to be pretty savvy,
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right? When it comes to computers, but he leaves like this tremendous digital footprint.
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Right. Let's let's start first with the fact that he had placed this keylogger device on Dr. Hahn's computer, but also
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he left it plugged into his computer, so that all the keystrokes were basically tracing right back to Pierre's computer.
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Security video was also found placing him at an Arizona gun store 4 days prior to the murders, purchasing ammunition
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and two firearms, including the alleged murder weapon. Now, investigators also traced the plastic wrap that was found
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used to wrap the bodies to a Home Depot in Oceanside, that's Southern California, right near where Pierre
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lived. So, they go into that Home Depot, and as you know with Home Depots, they have great surveillance footage. So,
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they had footage of him leaving the Home Depot with that plastic wrap and also duct tape.
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I was also impressed with how rapidly Home Depot was able to pinpoint where these purchases were made. I feel like
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I've done several Postmortems where we've talked about Home Depot being like clutch when it came to investigating
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It's remarkable. I mean, I just reported on another story in the Fandrich case where
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the video surveillance footage from Home Depot was crystal clear. It could spot the suspect at the time leaving with a
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big package of goods, and they even having the receipts. You know, Home Depot keeps track of the receipts. So,
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once they identify the time of purchase, they can go back into their receipts in
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their computer system, and that's where they then are able to track the surveillance footage as well. It's
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unbelievable. And then Pierre was also captured on surveillance camera meeting his father in a Walmart parking lot.
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That's where the father gave him two big duffel bags, which investigators say were go bags. Go
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bags meaning, you know, a bag that had enough supplies and clothing that he could live on for months.
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We should say Pierre's father was not charged with any crime in that. There was no indication that that Pierre's
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father was involved in any way according to the prosecutor. But Pierre also took
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with him the victim's phones. He had wrapped the phones in aluminum foil trying to evade any sort of
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tracking. I had no idea wrapping phones in aluminum foil was a thing, but it it doesn't seem like it would work. I I
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obviously didn't >> And in this case, you know, it was it was maybe not wrapped well enough, but
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investigators were able to track one of the phones. [music] It was pinging all the way to Oceanside,
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California. >> Yeah, it actually became really sort of pivotal when it comes to the
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investigation. So after the break, we're going to talk about that. We're also going to talk about his defense in
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court. Welcome back. So investigators closed in on Pierre at a gas station in the Oceanside,
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California area. He was arrested nearly 48 hours after the murder. Not a lot of time goes by. And ultimately the
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evidence points to Pierre and no one else as the Hans killer. Yeah, I mean and the evidence there was plenty of it
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right in Pierre's car. I mean they found Henry's wallet, his credit card, social
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security number, an expended shell casing which would trace back to the bullets that were found in the victims,
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the victims' phones. And as I pointed out earlier, all wrapped in them aluminum foil as if trying to evade
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being tracked. They also uncovered some pretty damning internet search searches according to
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investigators Pierre made in the hours following the murder. You know, he asked is a car searched when entering Tijuana?
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How do crime scene investigations work? How long does it take for fingerprints to process? And the the interesting one,
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he consulted an online psychic named Count Marco. And he asked, will I get caught for what I did? And Count Marco
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replied, what did you do, Pierre? Well, you know, and think investigators were the ones who were able to answer that.
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Yes, Pierre, you will get caught. And he did. >> Indeed. Absolutely. It's a very smart response. And I wonder
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how much those psychics hear. Um and you know what I mean? And you wouldn't want them to
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>> Imagine the confessions they get. Can you imagine? And also you would I'm sure
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they don't want to be wrapped up or implicated in anything. So just, you know, keep it vague. Keep it
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vague. So as we discussed a little bit earlier, Pierre had actually confessed to murdering the Hahn family to a friend
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of his, TJ Dorita, just hours afterwards. While Pierre was in custody, detectives
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get a phone call from TJ who then tells them about Pierre's confession. But he waited two days, Natalie. And I
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kept on wondering like what what are you doing? What took you so long? I know. And we asked TJ Dorita that point blank.
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You know, he's he said that Pierre always told these bizarre outlandish stories. So
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he wasn't quite sure what to believe at that point. He was making phone calls to
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all of Dr. Henry Hahn's office, to his business associates trying to track him down to see what was true, what wasn't
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true. Now once TJ learned that the murders had happened, he said he then started to worry that the police would
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think that he was somehow involved. So TJ said he was so scared he called his brother who happens to be a judge. His
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brother told him, you need to go to the police right away. Tell your story, you know, make sure they know what's what's
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real and what happened here. The defense at trial, of course, they they saw this as as an opportunity to
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poke holes in in what TJ told in his testimony. They questioned if you were so scared, why didn't you go to police
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right away? Because police would would have protected him. And they also questioned TJ's credibility because TJ
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had worked in the porn industry in in the marketing area of the porn industry. As TJ said he worked with some rough
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around the edges kinds of friends. The judge felt though that that line of questioning was irrelevant. And the
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defense had to concede in this case much of what TJ Dorita testified to was corroborated by the evidence. And even
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in those text exchanges with Pierre in the aftermath. Um it seems like before learning about
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the murders, TJ had sort of some sympathy for Pierre. Do we know, I mean, how this friendship
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started, what the nature of their friendship was, why he kind of felt sorry for him? TJ says he
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felt sorry for Pierre because he saw Pierre as being very socially awkward. You know, Pierre would share with him
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the stories of not being able to get a date, not being able to have a real relationship.
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And and TJ said he was always that guy in high school that stuck up for the kids who were bullied. He was just that
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kind of guy. So he tried to make him feel like he belonged. Pierre would send him pictures of himself working out at
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4:00 a.m. looking all buff just to try to make himself feel like he and TJ could hang and be friends. TJ said he
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just kind of went along with it because he felt bad for him. Mhm. Wow. Um so the thing about Pierre
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though is he strikes me once again as one of those characters who thinks he's a little bit
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smarter than he actually is, right? So he waives his Miranda rights and he talks to detectives without his attorney
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present. Um I want to play a clip of the detectives questioning Pierre about the
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Hahn murders. Obviously you're suspecting it's me. I got to that's why you're you're asking it like that.
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You're the last person who's was there with them. What happened? And I have no clue that
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Oh my gosh. Everything was perfectly fine when I left. Everything was perfectly fine when I
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left. So just a reminder for those who watched the episode, Pierre admits he was at the
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house. He'd stayed with them the night before. But there he is talking to investigators and he's trying to make up
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this you know, he's trying to tell them that he's clueless in all of this. And he spins this fantastical story
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about how he was being targeted by these shadowy figures that were wanting his his perpetual energy machine.
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And and he said that he had engaged in three different shootouts. And and that he felt like his life was in danger as
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well as the life of his father and his sister. So he said he was afraid for them. And I asked his defense attorney
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in the hour, well then if he tells this whole fantastical story, you would assume there would be a
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trail of bodies. And you know, she had to acknowledge of course there was there was no such record of any of that.
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Yeah, I mean three different shootouts. That would be pretty easy for police to verify. Yeah. That sounded like a a spy
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thriller more than it was actual an actual life. Yeah. So ultimately though Pierre is charged
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with three counts of first-degree murder. The DA's office agrees to waive the death penalty in exchange for a more
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expedient bench trial, which means it's only a judge, no jury. A judge is going to render the verdict. Uh Pierre decides
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to take the stand. What did he hope to convey to the judge? You know, at least when you're taking
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the stand in front of a jury there's a possibility that one person may be influenced. But a judge, I mean,
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that's that's quite a challenge. His defense attorney said that he wanted to be vindicated. He really
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seemed to believe what he was saying. Now I think he also believed that he could convince the courts. I mean,
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here's a guy he's as you said very persuasive. He he's managed to convince allegedly, you know, these investors who
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went along with his so-called energy machine plan back when he was living in Arizona. So maybe he thought, well, you
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know, I can convince the court as well. He shared a lot of detail in his testimony though. A lot of it didn't
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make sense according to to the prosecutor Ben Ledinik. Pierre's explanation on the stand for the murders
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was that he was being framed by the Department of Energy. That any incriminating physical or digital
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evidence he said had been planted by the Department of Energy. Again, there's no
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evidence pointing to the Department of Energy in any of this. His defense attorney asked Pierre on the stand if he
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had ever been diagnosed with a mental illness. Pierre denied that. So you know, I think she was trying to allude
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to the fact that Pierre perhaps might have had an undiagnosed mental illness. Right. Giving him some sort of
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excuse I guess in a way for for the behavior. Yeah. And then Pierre was found guilty of of murdering the Hahn
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family. On April 15th, 2022, he's sentenced to three life terms without the possibility
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of parole. So he appeals the conviction through the California courts. And while his appeal
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was pending, he also petitioned the US Supreme Court to release him. In March of 2025, the court denied his
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final petition. So is there any further legal action that Pierre can take at this point?
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Well, I believe that he could file other petitions or motions perhaps based on, you know, if there's new information or
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evidence, but all of that again is is hypothetical. You know, whatever legal recourse he thinks he might have though,
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um you know, there's just so much evidence as we see in this case against him. It's hard to believe that any
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further motions, that anything could come of that. Yeah. Yeah. Um you know, to hear Dr. Hanh's friends talk about
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him, I mean, he wasn't just a nice guy and a good friend. He really did change people's lives. And here's a guy who a
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little bit later on in life finds the love of his life and has this beautiful child. I mean,
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these are people doing everything right. It's just so much potential cut short. And I think that's truly who Dr. Henry
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Hanh and his whole family was. I mean, Dr. Henry Hanh really believed that he could help people and was doing that. We
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talked to a few of the cancer survivors that he worked with who talked so lovingly about his healing powers. They
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believed, you know, that he really was the real deal and in the darkest moments of their lives, he was the one who was
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there for them. And yeah, it's hard to even imagine the loss of little Emily, you know, as I said, just a couple of
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days before her birthday. I mean, I think that's especially heartbreaking. And I think
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I'll end this by, you know, saying again what Don Goldberg said, "A good man's name is his legacy." Nearly a decade
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later, they're all remembered by those who knew and loved them. Yeah, that that was very very obvious.
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Um it was it was a really good story, Natalie. Thank you, Ann Marie. >> [music] >> And to our listeners, if you like this
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