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this is Agent Demaris forvard County Sheriff's Office criminalistic unit we are at holder
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park on the morning of April 4th 1989 hours after chipain's murder agent Debbie dears arrived on scene at holder
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Park shortly before Dawn it's the place where chip and his ex-girlfriend Kim HCK
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sad and T in his truck and where Kim says a black man approached the vehicle dears recorded her
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observations crime scene begins with what we believe to be suspect shoe prints that initiate at this
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point holder Park is a popular well trampled site for local baseball games agent dears and the crime unit team were
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there specifically looking at the tire tracks of chiplin truck along with shoeprints that they thought could
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belong to the perpetrator agent dears assumed that the alleged attacker arrived at the park in
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a vehicle and she tracks shoeprints heading in a West Direction up into the area between the trees which is where
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the victim's vehicle was parked along with the two victims prior to the abduction but oddly dears also saw those
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same suspect Sho prints exiting the area towards a baseball field not disappearing as they would if the wearer
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had gotten into a truck the shoeprints after proceeding West will then continue on around just to the outside of this
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fence with the last shoe print being seen just north of the second cement pole as agent dear's continued her
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investigation local news crews descended on the scene about 200 yd down this road
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is apparently where the murder occurred Sheriff's officials tell us all three got out of the truck and then both men
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fired shots the next day April 5th the newspaper featured a photo of dear's helping another agent pull up a plaster
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cast of a shoe print and just below that a police sketch of a black man the image
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reflected the details that Kim hallik had given officers about the alleged as salent and now police were asking for
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help as they search for a black male it didn't take long for people to start pointing fingers at Crosley green I
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wanted the person who done it I wanted Justice done at all cost but what exactly was Justice 35
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years ago in the small Florida communities of Titusville and Mims it's an area where racial lines have been
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clearly drawn for generations and where animus and fear still lived right below the
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surface I'm 48 Hours correspondent eron morard this is murder in the Orange Grove the troubled case against Crosley
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Green episode 2 rumors okay first thing I just want you to introduce yourself tell me your name and
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how long you've lived in Titusville and Bard County uh my name's Timothy Lee Curtis
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I've lived in Titusville basically my entire life and I'd like to say that's 26 years but it's a little
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longer I live in Titus field 63 and A2 years I've been interviewing Tim Curtis of and on for 25 years most recently in
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late spring of 2024 his family ran a local body shop in Titusville Florida for decades it's
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where Deputy sheriffs would bring in their cars for service so Tim was privy to a lot of Gossip around town he's a
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friendly guy to have a beer with but I've learned over the years there's more to him than he lets
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on how big a story was this how big a case in town it was I mean it was there was a we
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were a small town back then I mean and we have a a young guy that was allegedly murdered by a black guy so that was very
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very heated in the community the town of Titusville sits smack dab in the middle
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of Florida's East Coast it's part of the state that's also known as the Space Coast since it's home to Kennedy Space
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Center Titus is relatively small compared to nearby Orlando Mims an incorporated area of
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Bard county is even smaller there's no High School in Mims the entire area is assigned to Astronaut High School in
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Titusville and that means people know each other people like Tim Curtis did you know Kim helik at all
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back then yes I I knew the hoc family very well and Tim became close friends with chip Flynn after selling him a
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truck the same truck that chip was driving the night he was killed I think chip was just a young ambitious boy like
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most of us were that had a whole life ahead of him um that you know was very excited when I sold him the truck that
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he had this beautiful nice truck to drive around for a young guy that's you know that's back back then it was cars
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trucks and girls Tim had also known Crosley green and his brother o' Conor since they were teenagers you were good
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friends with OK Conor weren't you yeah we I admired o Conor we admired OK Conor because he was such a a phenomenal
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football player and I've known Crosley many many years I mean he liked to run smack from his mouth you know he he was
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a type of guy that would probably steal your lawn mow if you were setting on it and you not know it was
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stolen that in particular day of the of the crime um I ran into Crossley because I
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used to jog and I ran by his house and me and him exchange some words no heated words we would just his dog had run out
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after me and I had said some things don't let your dog bite me and ain't going to end well kind of thing but and
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what did Crosley say back um he may have said something like you know and if I remember correctly he used the word
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cracker cracker don't don't you hurt my dog cracker now or so you know that then
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I then I'll use some words back at him as to you know you better get your dog crosy Tim had told me something similar
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when I first spoke with him in 1999 um they said that the guy who done this was using the word cracker a lot
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and I think that there alone to be honest with you stuck with me it stuck with Tim and would further convince him
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that Crosley was a prime suspect in chiplin murder when police released a composite sketch of the alleged as
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salent Tim posted it on the wall of his shop and some of the rumor it already been that that you know they're looking
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for Crosley that crosley's one of the suspects oh Conor green saw the sketch posted in Tim's shop I remember having
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some words about it and I said you know that looks like Crosley like just to see
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his response and he was very you know outspoken going you know BS Timmy you know damn good and well that don't look
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like my brother and I was trying to maybe like pry him a little bit you know cuz In fairness I like chip I'm the one
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that sold chip the truck you know I was very you know very concerned and I was definitely wanting whoever did this to
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be BR to Justice you know so I was to be honest with you I was out to help any way I could and so Tim Curtis decided to
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go to the police with a tip one that involved a story that he had heard about Crosley green a story that had been
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passed along from this man no my name is Kerwin hear Kerwin heern new chip Flynn
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Tim Curtis and Crosley green who was known around town as Papa I spoke to Kerwin in
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1999 we sat on a weathered picnic table in the front yard of the house where he lived with his parents it was an early
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evening rumor control had it that he did it rumor control rumor control what does
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that mean uh just gossip in the street I guess you would call it the morning after the
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murder April 4th Kerwin was at work cutting grass near the Orange Grove the area was roped off and full of police
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activity Kerwin said that later that day two of Chip's relatives asked if he had
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any information about who killed chip and uh we got to talk and so he said hey kin do you did you hear anything and of
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course I just you know and I told him Ruma has it that such and such took place you know and naming uh Papa green
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so you told him there was a rumor rumor that Papa green had done it rumor rumor and I want to emphasize rumor I mean it
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wasn't it wasn't nothing that I knew for a fact or I don't think think anybody else knew as for a fact it was just
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rumor control and I guess the rumor started because basically the police was looking
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for him to question him concerning the murder and I I'm assuming that's how the the rumor got started that evening two
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investigators showed up at kerwin's doorstep and said hey you know Kerwin we need to talk to you and I was like for
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what uh concerning Papa green do you know him yeah I know him uh well we need you to
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we we want to talk to you concerning him about the this uh murder you heard about
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I don't know nothing about it but they insisted that I go with them to talk to them and discuss this concerning Papa in
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this murder case wait a minute so you told these investigators clearly you knew nothing about it nothing about it
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and they still asked you to come in to where Sheriff's Department exactly Kerwin had been on probation at the time
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of Chip's murder and had not been following the probation requirements so when the interview began did you feel
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pressured to give them something did you feel you had to well let me ask you a question considering the fact that I was
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on probation I wasn't following the probation to the letter t uh I mean you make the call
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you felt pressure yeah I mean yeah I read some of kerwin's statements to the police back to him specifically where he
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recounted something that he had heard from o Conor green look here um in your statement and this is a tape statement
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right M it says let's see um I Heard OK Conor talking about it you know only thing I really heard was the
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fact that you know his brother was a dumb f for doing it this and that more or less that kind of thing I was this
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you talking nah you n and and and here you go what I'm saying is I think they kind of take
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what I'm trying to say out of context and trying to say that I said that Okana said that his brother make kill that
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person but what I'm saying is Papa wasn't willing to turn himself in you understand what I'm saying he
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wasn't willing to turn himself in and and his brother was saying hey you being a dumb F for not doing it because you
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need to do it and just just go and and face up to it but why if this if Papa green didn't commit this murder why was
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the big concern about him turn himself in well you think about it now I mean it's and I'm going to make a har
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statement here and and I don't want to offend nobody here cuz I'm the only one here of
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color it's you mean it's hard as a black person okay you being accused of committing a murder killing a white
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person okay your best bet is just go and turn yourself in CU I mean I mean reality is if you you
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sit there and run around on the street you subject get shot by a cop period I mean that's pretty ugly and
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hard to say but that's reality that's that's America I showed Kerwin a copy of the police
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composite sketch that was made from Kim H's description of the alleged as salent
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the morning after the shooting on April 4th 1989 does this look like crossy green no
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it don't at all no no why not what's why doesn't this look like Crosley gra first
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of all he got too much hair all right and no too big lips too big his Chin's not made up like his face is too
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fat that's not possible not at all and I know darn well I could have been zooted out of my mind I would have
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never said that was popping cuz they don't look nothing like it but regardless of Kerwin he's denials
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here it's safe to say that he had been part of the rumor bill that Crosley green was involved in killing chip Flynn
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that rumor would jump to Chip's relatives who would then pass that information on to Tim Curtis but instead
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of it being called just a rumor the rumor became fact Crosley green had killed chip Flynn Tim who had called the
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police on April 5th with that information just added fuel to the fire on the evening of April 5th Kim H
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returned to the Sheriff's Office with her father to view a photo lineup of six black men when asked to identify the man
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she claimed robbed and kidnapped her and then killed chip she pointed to a photo
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that was darker than any of the others it was Crosley green Crosley green and his family had
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been in the local news on and off for years since he was a young child it was Christmas
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1966 when a fire destroyed his family's home in Mims a kerosene heater had exploded luckily everyone was able to
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escape an Orlando newspaper reported that the family lost all of their possessions and the community rallied to
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help the family the green siblings were always close 11 of them in total Crosley
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was the third oldest I sat down with three of them in 2020 my name is Shirley White and Crosby
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Green is is my brother and just out of curiosity where are you in the family I am the oldest my name is O caror
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green and I'm Crosley little brother my name is deer green and I'm Crosley sister I'm the third oldest
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sister and where from Crosley you don't have to worry five on the fifth D how would you describe your
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brother Papa was kind playful with me he was smart Shirley told me the origin of crosley's nickname Papa it
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just was a name that we just picked out when he was a little boy and everybody fell in love with him
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and very few people called him Crosby because everybody know him as Papa and oh Conor but there was a reason I
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mean he that he was called Papa wasn't it I mean it fit him yeah he was the he was the favorite
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boy in the family when it came to dad and son relationship you know you know dad
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always called him Papa too their father Booker T green was a truck driver for a MIM Citrus firm
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and growing up and Ms you know my dad was the only one worked my mom most stayed home and helped us in school and
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everything kept kept the food cooked kept everything cleaned up around the house and
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everything and while Booker was working Crosley took on a fatherly role in the family even towards his older sister
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Shirley and he would talk to me like a father because my my father he was so busy working even though we know he he
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loved it us but he didn't have the time to just show us and talk to us Papa was like he was that
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father and when he say something you would just look at him and and you took heat to what he say he said don't do it
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you don't do it he put up he played a big part in my life even though I was the oldest he
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played a very very special part in my heart Crosley played football in high school but according to Crosley he
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dropped out to spend more time working with his father he really looked out for the family and he looked out for the
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people were not even not people that he didn't even know you know he spent a lot
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of time helping people do things if you needed any kind of help and he was around you know he always gave him gave
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you a hand but there was also an intensely Dark Side to their family life the green children grew up poor and they
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were victims of domestic violence all of which culminated in their parents' horrific murder suicide in
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1977 shortly after their parents separated Booker T green shot their mother constant twice before shooting
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himself Crosley was 19 at the time ' Conor was 17 and this is when Crosley truly became
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Papa of the family besides his two older sisters Shirley and Tina most of the green siblings were miners Crosley also
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had a son schuma who was 2 years old it was really really hard and my brother just like stood
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up as the Big Brother of the of our family you know and I'm the little brother and I go to
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him a lot to help me do a lot of things that I didn't know how to do my dad taught him he taught
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me his siblings said that Crosley had actually already taken on a more protective role in the family before
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their parents' deaths due to the abuse they had suffered at home as children but that turbulent home of
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environment took a toll on Crosley and his siblings there were Runnings with police yeah how would you describe the
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Green family reputation not very good that's Kerwin heern again it wasn't a good family last name to have at that
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time the family was you know pretty deep in uh the drug scene and stuff like that no I I feel
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that the cops wanted all of them off the street this place has always been pretty
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well a drug infested area area since like the weeds of the mid 70s and 80s and then this crack stuff took off
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right you didn't see police out here until you saw till you start seeing white females and white males start
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coming through that place up there on that corner then all of a sudden now we got a problem and when you say White's
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coming here to buy drugs well yeah yeah yeah but before that there was no problem see it was no problem long as
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you know black selling the black ain't no problem but once the Caucasians start coming in now we got a
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problem several weeks before chip flim was killed Crosley had been released from prison after serving time on a drug
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charge and that wasn't the first time time he had been in trouble his legal problems had started many years earlier
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when he was a teen Crosley had previously been charged with robbery when he was 17 he also pleaded guilty to
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another robbery in Upstate New York but because he was 18 he was categorized as a youthful offender and his conviction
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was vacated it would not count towards his record over the years his brother ' Conor had also done time in prison
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relating to theft and burglary while authorities would deny it ' Conor thought that after Chip's murder crosy
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and his family became targets they tried to get me to come down to the Titusville no the sheriff
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department so I went I went down there and then I can't think of the officer who was asking me
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all these questions and stuff where you was this this this date um did you see Crosley that date you know they just
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want to know my whereabout well I was hold to hold hold towards that night they want to know
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where I was and they finally backed up off me well cuz you had an alibi didn't yeah
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they backed up off me and left me alone o Conor's Alibi was airtight he was at a
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bar with over 60 people at the time of the murder I mean do you think that if you didn't have an alibi it could be you
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sitting in prison yeah think there was a desire to just take you off the streets the the way it looked like it
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yes that's what it really looked like seemed like to me you know they didn't care who it was as long as they got some
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somebody that's all they were looking [Music] for when did you find out you were a
00:24:15
suspect when did I find out I was suspect mm um maybe a day or two days after that
00:24:23
was the main suspect and what was your reaction what was my reaction to that was that
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here I go again here I go again as you've already heard Crosley was no stranger to runin
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with the law and yet he had never been convicted of a violent crime but why would people in your neighborhood I me
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you grew up in Mims think you could do something like this for number one it ain't what they
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think is what they have been told from what one person Been Told then he takes it to another person and
00:25:01
another person takes it to another person and in that change everything get turned to around
00:25:08
one day into the investigation things were not looking good for Crosley green crley had been in holder Park he
00:25:18
had gone to a baseball game earlier on the night of the killing a former classmate of crosley's told police that
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he had been at the same game and said Crosley had been wearing a plain green army jacket which matched Kim's initial
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description to police of what her alleged a Salin had worn hours after the shooting a canine
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unit sniffed shoe prints in holder Park and reported that the dog had tracked Ascent to a nearby intersection right
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next to a house that belonged to one of crosley's sisters Tina Tim Curtis told police that he had
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seen Crosley Tina's house when he was jogging that afternoon Tim also told investigators that he thought the police
00:26:05
sketch did in fact look like Crosley green after Kim H pointed to Crosley in a photo lineup police secured a warrant
00:26:16
for his arrest crosley's name and photo were released in news reports on April 7th
00:26:24
1989 as the suspect in chip Flynn's murder the same day as Chip's funeral but before police could arrest Crosley
00:26:34
he left the state kicking off a nationwide sech but did you know the police were looking for you of course of
00:26:43
course where supposed to do turn yourself in oh no oh no oh no I don't get along with them people
00:26:53
down there my family don't get along with the law enforcement down there now we have had
00:27:00
run-ins leaving the area certainly made Crosley green look guilty 2 months later
00:27:06
an anonymous caller tipped off police that Crosley had returned to Bard County and Crosley was arrested on June 8th a
00:27:16
little over two months after Chip's death 1989 this recording is taking place in
00:27:24
the uh Sheriff's uh homicide Squad offices in Parkway Florida uh cley just for the record
00:27:31
would you state your full name and spell your last name please okay this is crosley's original
00:27:41
police interview it's an archival recording from 1989 Crosley is sometimes difficult to
00:27:49
understand and there are background noises later that sound like tapping youve been a hard fellow to find
00:27:58
how about yeah they read Crosley his Miranda writes all right Mr Green this reads as follows I Crosley Alexander
00:28:07
green have been advised and have had explained to me my constitutional rights as follows okay and they are number one
00:28:14
I have the right to remain silent do you understand that and the charges um you're accused of
00:28:23
um robbing two white kids a boy and a girl up behind your sister Tina's house at holder Park as you know and um tying
00:28:33
this young man up and driving his truck on up to the Grove in Mims and uh taking
00:28:38
a girl out of the truck and as you know she sort of struggled a little bit and um tried to run away from you ran around
00:28:46
the tailgate of the uh the truck in fact um and then he got out shooting and you
00:28:52
know what we don't understand all along he had the gun even though his hands were tied uh he couldn't shoot at you
00:28:58
because she was sitting between the two of you as you know and uh when the shooting start she got in the truck and
00:29:05
put the hall ass on and of course he shows up dead and um you're accused of doing that listening to the recording
00:29:14
I'm struck by how often the officer describes the crime and then adds as you know speaking as if he was sure Crosley
00:29:23
was guilty but as far as Crosley was concerned this had nothing to do with him I mean you know let's get some
00:29:32
straight you know all right who y looking for I don't know I do it and I'm said I a do
00:29:40
nothing it's hard to hear clearly but Crosley was insisting I didn't do it I'm saying I didn't do
00:29:50
nothing but at this point things were not looking good for Crosley everything seemed to be aligning against him
00:29:58
perhaps a little too perfectly but upon closer examination of the evidence a different picture was
00:30:06
emerging the question was whether this New Perspective would come to light at trial on the next episode of Murder in
00:30:18
the Orange Grove the troubled case against Crosley green I I believed Crosley green I said there's no jury in the
00:30:28
world that's going to convict him based on these [Music] facts murder in the Orange Grove was
00:30:40
reported by me Aon morard alongside producers Alan Pang Annie Cronenberg and Allison Bailey Kiara norbitz is our
00:30:50
coordinating producer and Florence Barrow Adams is our story editor additional production support from Dylan
00:30:57
Gordon Marlon polycarp Caroline Casey and Christine Driscoll Judy tigart is the executive producer of 48 Hours Gail
00:31:07
Zimmerman asenna basak Mark gobom Charlotte Fuller Judy Ryback and Steven McCain produced the original 48 Hours
00:31:16
episodes associate producers were Michael Loftus and Shaheen Toki Patty aronowski was a senior
00:31:25
producer special thanks to Megan Marcus Jamie Benson Nick poser and Gail [Music]
00:31:41
[Music] spru Paramount podcasts