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thank you for listening a quick word since recording this episode both the prosecution and defense rested their
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cases in fact the defense opted not to call any Witnesses closing arguments are scheduled for Thursday May 11th
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[Music] that she would cut me up something about she wasn't in the mental place to do
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that whether she would get herself in that place to be able to do it [Music] that she didn't want to have to because
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it'd be so messy so much blood I think that the bleach and something about trash bags
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and then she would bury me worse shoot granola would ever find me [Music] [Applause]
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I'm Jonathan Vigliotti you just heard the voice of Audrey barretaro a former friend of Lori Bello day Bells who
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claims Laurie threatened to kill her we'll hear more from her during this week's special 48 Hours update along
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with other people who were close to Lori and Chad this is the fifth week of testimony in Laurie dabel's trial for
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the murders of her two youngest children Joshua J.J valo and Tyler Ryan She's accused along with her husband Chad
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dabell of JJ and Tyler's murders as well as the murder of Chad's late Wife Tammy
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dabell they both pleaded not guilty and chandibell's trial will occur at a later
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date the 48 Hours team has been reviewing hours of Court audio to bring you the key moments from the trial and
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this week 48 Hours producer Liza Finley is joining us Liza LED production on all
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three of our prior television episodes on this case she was the first 48 producer I worked with welcome Liza glad
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to have you here thank you thank you Jonathan it's great to be here it's been a long road it has
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and and this has been a difficult Road and a difficult case from the start and I wonder how it Compares with other ones
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you've covered well you know I've been reporting on True Crime for so many years and but some get lodged in your
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memory and this is one of them we have been on this story since it broke over three years ago watching it unfold as it
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did you know ending with a gruesome deaths of the two children and that was heartbreaking I thought everyone you and
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I and everybody who'd been covering this was rooting for a happy ending and uh there have been so many unanswered
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questions along the way and I finally feel listening to this riveting testimony that we were finally getting a
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clearer picture of what investigators say happened and why one thought I've wrestled with throughout this journey
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goes back to a Time Magazine cover I remember seeing in 1991 it's a totally black page with the title the nature of
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evil and the subtitle reads on this black page does it exist or do bad things just happen wow if bad things
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just happen a lot of bad things happened in this case yeah I mean sadly after listening to the prosecution this case
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makes me think that maybe evil does exist and we are hearing how it presented itself in the testimony of
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witness after witness and let's get right into it we heard a pretty shocking claim from Lori's friend Audrey
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barrotero earlier what do we know about her well according to her testimony Audrey baratero met Chad at a religious
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conference around 2018 and developed a friendship rooted in their shared religious beliefs she said she read some
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of Chad's books and heard about his visions and past lives which he says Chad claimed he'd lived over a million
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years he said that he had been Methuselah and he said that he had been an apostle
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at the time of Jesus Christ James okay so just to clarify because I feel like we need some clarification here
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baratero says Chad claimed he was James the brother of Jesus Christ and that's not all baratero says he told
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her that she had been someone special in her past life too Jesus Christ's wife Joanna
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Okay so where to begin that's a major claim to make uh and then it's a major claim to
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believe barotero believed him she says she did here's Laura's defense attorney Jim Archibald questioning her
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about that at the time I thought it could be true because I trusted him you thought it could be true uh because
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it sounded cool huh is that a yes yes sounded amazing right [Music] yes I wonder what that little chuckle Audrey
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barotero gives at the end of that really means maybe it's suddenly coming into clear focus when she hears how
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um unsettling all of this is dare I say crazy I mean I guess if I were Jesus's wife or brother in a past life if I
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really believe that I think it was pretty cool too I I think we all would but it is a
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little out there so that's what Lori's defense attorney Jim Archibald points out in all these past lives verotero
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says Chad told her about Chad is always someone important she says Chad does eventually ask her to befriend Lori
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right well baratero says she did befriend Laurie they met at a religious conference and developed a friendship
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over the phone baratero says she was invited to participate in something called a casting ceremony in which an
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evil spirit is cast out Laura told her that Chad's Wife Tammy day Bell had essentially an evil spirit
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living inside her though baratero was uncomfortable and she told Lori she did not want to participate according to
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baratero that didn't go too well he pressured me saying you're supposed to be my friend you're supposed to help
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me but try to ask you to be my friend [Music] and I reiterated that I didn't want to
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she kept on so it sounds from barataro's testimony that Lori was convinced there was an
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evil spirit that had taken over Tammy and needed to be removed Eliza where did Laurie say Tammy's
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Spirit was and what would happen if it was X pelled prosecutor Tanya Rawlings asked barrotero those very questions but
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as you'll hear at the end of this clip baratero seems to be saying she thinks Chad and Lori had more in their minds
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than just removing an evil spirit she was saying that she was in a cage or a jail or something like this and it was
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the idea like she needs to be freed and helped because some persons overtaken her body okay
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and so she wasn't in her body anymore according to them and do you know what would happen if
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this dark Spirit was pushed out at the end of the friendship when I heard Chad Dave I'll say
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something to the effect of why is the body still alive or something like that okay bye
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I realized that they must have a different idea okay even further even further and what
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did that mean that they didn't want that they didn't intend for the person to be helped I
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would think um that they didn't want the person to live I mean to hear someone say Chad was
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talking about whether people were still alive or not prosecutors must find that pretty damning yes but I don't think
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that's the most damning thing to come out of bear tarot's testimony right that sound that we played earlier were
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baritaro alleges Lori threatened to kill her when did that happen Liza so barataro said she went to visit Laurie
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and her niece in Hawaii in October 2019 and on that trip she learned Tammy day Bell had passed away
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the trip was unpleasant she says Lori was agitated she was snippy and baratero returned to Idaho with Lori's knee she
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says they were staying at Lori's house when she decided to end the friendship with Lori once and for all
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I told her that I was going to go upstairs and pack my bag and just go to bed early because I didn't want to
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spend more time with her and as I went to go and do that I asked her the question
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is there anything weird going on I don't know about and she said no what are you eating
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I just I don't know anything and she said no so I took her to work a trusting person
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and she's as soon as I turned to start to go up the stairs she started laughing the kind of life as
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if you're laughing at someone or think something's hilarious and she said to me you're so naive
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I do trust you it's like a little child you'll believe anything anyone would tell you
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and she said you think the world is all unicorns and rainbows unicorns and rainbows this allegedly
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from a woman who weeks after her children were missing was seen in photos on a beach in Hawaii getting married I
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could just listening to that hear how tense that interaction was and we know the conversation got worse barotaro says
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Lori then threatened to kill her and cut her body up but Lori's attorney went after baritos credibility here he points
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out that she had previously tested by before the grand jury and failed to mention this incident we want to play
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this exchange between baratero and Lori's attorney Jim Archibald do you remember taking an oath to tell
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the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth do you remember that yes and do you remember your testimony
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that you did not say anything like this I was scared and she had said that if you ever tell
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anyone I will come and find you in the dark of night so you now want the jury to believe that
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even though you previously testified under oath and nothing of this sort was talked about that you come here today
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and say you're so scared that's why you didn't previously testify about it objection you're on our argumentative
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problems what was your question you want the jury to believe that you did just didn't make
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this last crap up I did not make it up during her testimony baratar was very emotional on the stand and we heard her
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mention Lori's niece a couple of times that niece is Melanie polowski there are two Melodies In this case right Eliza it
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can get a little confusing right it really can Lori had two women named Melanie she was very very close to
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one was her niece Melanie polowski formerly known as Melanie Boudreau and then there is Lori's friend Melanie Gibb
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now you remember that Gibb is the friend who testified that Lori told her to lie
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and to tell the police that JJ was staying with her when they were looking for him in November of 2019.
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she's also the one who recorded that secret conversation between herself Lori and Chad that she later turned over to
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the investigators so sticking with Melanie polowski her husband Ian was also called to the stand
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last week what was his role in this case Ian pawlowski married Melanie in late November 2019 and according to his
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testimony Melanie quote unquote dumped all of her fears about what was happening with Tyler and JJ
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and were some of the things you heard regarding Tyler Ryan and J.J valo yes did you have concerns for their
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safety or their well-being after what you learned yes so what she told him scared him so much
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that he went to law enforcement with his concerns and they asked him to record conversations that may be relevant to
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the investigation which he did those recordings were not played the judge did not allow them admitted into evidence so
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we don't really know what was said no no we don't did Rory or Chad ever instruct you regarding
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whether or not to cooperate with law enforcement yes and what were you instructed
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to cooperate as little as possible to avoid them there was just kind of this arrogant flipping attitude toward law
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enforcement you know it was just none of their business and we needed to get out
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of town was another thing the instructed us to do and did those instructions come from
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both Chad and Lori it was mostly Chad pushing us to get out of town um fourth chatting Chad had a more
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serious tone Lori was represented this light-hearted attitude toward cooperating with law enforcement just to
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kind of avoid it and was part of that uh telling you that some of the law enforcement officers were dark Spirits
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or zombies yes one of those dark Spirits was detective Hermosillo who you might recall from the
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first week of trial when he testified that he found Lori's children buried in Chad's backyard polowski says he was
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told that Hermosillo was one of the zombie officers and that law enforcement was out to get them Eliza what else did
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Ian hear I mean it's just unbelievable but Ian also testified that he heard Lori say that she could cast out Satan
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Lori said that she was able to cast Satan out by folding him up into the shape of a taco and locking him in a box
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in Antarctica oh I I don't know how to react to that so I think we just leave it right where it is
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when we come back testimony from those close to Chad's Wife Tammy Depot [Music] welcome back I'm here with producer Liza
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Findlay and I'd like to focus on Tammy dabell whose birthday incidentally passed during the trial she would have
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been 53. specifically I'd like to narrow in on her friends Alice and Todd Gilbert
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friends of Chad and Tammy knew them well from church they were close Alice testified that she saw Tammy twice a
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week while Todd was even a central character in one of Chad's books what else did they have to say Liza
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well uh when Tammy died the Gilberts say they were called soon after and Chad you
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know made a request that Alice just could not abide she couldn't do it and what did Chad tell you he told me not to
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tell anybody and to wait for about an hour and I said well I need to call the Bishop
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and he said no no don't call but I still did and also the Gilberts say they learned
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Lori had entered the picture shortly thereafter very shortly thereafter about a week after Tammy died
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um we asked him how he was doing and he said actually I'm doing really good and that he'd met the woman he was going to
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marry and and you recall this being around October 26th and Tammy had just passed away or been
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declared dead on the 19th yes did you find did it surprise you that he seemed to be doing so well yes
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we were shocked well you can hear the emotion in Alice's voice it was obviously very shocking and
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the Gilberts say that they met Laurie at church and then they had the new couple over at their
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home and they both said that Chad and Lori appeared incredibly affectionate giggling touching like they were
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teenagers in a way that they'd never seen Chad behave with Tammy it was during that visit that Gilbert said Chad
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told them something really big yes we asked her if she had had any children and she
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she said that she'd had many and that Chad spoke up and says that she had a daughter it just passed on
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and so we didn't really ever get a straight answer of how many children she did have
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wow so just to punctuate this moment because I think it's so critical Chad allegedly told her Laurie's daughter
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died and now this is before Tyler had been found Alice also testified Chad after Lori's arrest tried to backtrack
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that he ever said Lori had a daughter who died here's Alice recounting that conversation she says she had what Chad
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you told me when we met that she had just lost a daughter and he said no I didn't I said yes you did
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and um so I knew that it was tiley that he was talking to me about I asked him also
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um where are they I asked them where are the kids Chad and doesn't Tyler want a life a job a car a boyfriend
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and he said she didn't like people and she didn't like me and what struck you about those
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statements because he said didn't he is the past tense he's the past tense um very chilling testimony
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we also heard about Tammy's life insurance policies she had two one for three hundred thousand dollars that she
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and Chad had purchased and another offered by the school district Tammy worked for those life insurance policies
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were both paid out according to detective Mattingly how much did Chad get in total Liza he was paid out a
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total of four hundred and thirty thousand dollars you know if Tammy had died just two months this is so
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interesting if Tammy had died just two months earlier or any date before September 1st it would have been a lot
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less and why is that well Angela Yancey the school district's payroll and benefits administrator testified that on
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September 8th Tammy changed her coverage in fact she maxed out her coverage at five times her salary and even added an
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additional option which increased the policy benefit to a hundred and thirty thousand dollars okay so maxing out a
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life insurance policy less than two months before you die is definitely suspicious do we know why she did that
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no we don't but we do know two days after Tammy died Chad daybell reached out to Yancey to claim the life
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insurance here she has testified that that was unusually soon I explained to him that we could not
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submit a life claim until we had um the original death certificate to go with it and he said that's okay I've
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already ordered eight of them and in your experience how many death certificates do most people order when
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they share that information with me the I've heard maybe three at the most three at the most and Chad diebell
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ordered eight death certificates a life insurance policy that Chad wanted to claim less than 72 hours after his wife
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died as well to a jury this could all be I would think suspicious especially when
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we heard detective Mattingly testify that he believed Chad was living off the proceeds of those policies while he and
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Lori were in Hawaii Liza I know there's one more witness who we have to talk about he testified to what could be some
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of the most damning evidence we've heard thus far yes there was compelling testimony from an FBI agent named Doug
00:21:42
Hart amongst other investigative work on the case Hart spent more than 200 hours
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combing through Laurie's iCloud and found texts voicemails and photos that helped them piece together the
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relationship between Chad and Lori well from the beginning it was clear that the
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relationship between the Romantic relationship between Chad Dayville and Lori valo was the driving force
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behind the crimes that are alleged to have taken place so the text messages revealed that Chad
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and Lori were romantically involved before either of their spouses died after the affair began there then began
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to be Communications regarding the deaths of Charles fallow Tammy dabel J.J valo and Tyler Ryan
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some of the most shocking texts revealing this relationship were sent months before Tammy died or just days
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after Lori's previous husband Charles was shot by her brother Alex Cox in what he described as self-defense the these
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texts were often romantic sometimes sexual punctuated with heart and kiss emojis yes and uh what really stood out
00:22:55
to me in Hart's testimony was his reference to the term obstacles used by Chad daybell in regard to the couple's
00:23:02
former spouses Charles Bellow and Tammy day Bell and Lori's kids and what's really interesting the texts also
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demonstrate Chad's feelings of being trapped listen to this text from July 26th just two and a half weeks after
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Charles died from Chad day Bell to Lori valo tonight I figured out who I feel like
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I'm a grown-up version of Harry Potter who has to live with the dudleys in his little space under the stairs
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every few weeks I get to escape and have amazing adventures with my goddess lover
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but then I have to return to my place under the stairs feeling trapped but I sense permanent freedom is coming
00:23:48
then there's this text exchange before Tammy died from Lori vallo to Chad dabel I'm so
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alone without you it is devastating line 824 from Chad day Bell to Lori vallo I feel so alone too we are
00:24:04
surrounded by terrestrial relatives that are simply obstacles I'm so sick of it line 823 from Lori valo to Chad dabel me
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too what is it that you really want line 824 from Chad davil to Lori valo I want to be with you that is my greatest
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hope and dream I would happily join you tomorrow if it felt like heaven would not strike us down
00:24:32
and the way they talked about physical bodies spirits zombies in these texts is interesting here's an exchange between
00:24:39
Lori and her brother Alex Cox referencing Charles on March 26th of 2019 this is four months before Alex
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would shoot Charles and a reminder to our listeners Alex died of what authorities say were natural causes on
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December 12 2019. text from Alex Cox to Lori valo correct Charles's body is alive
00:25:05
1762 from Alex Cox to Lori valo what did you learn line 1761 from Lori vallo to Alex Cox a
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lot still working on it we'll call you later these short texts actually contain a lot
00:25:30
of information regarding what was taking place in the investigation myself Chad dabell had identified Charles valo
00:25:45
as somebody who was a dark entity whose body had been possessed by any number of
00:25:54
Spirits which were named with various names and so this first text when Alex Cox is
00:26:02
reaching out to Lori valo he's he's affirming that Charles valo's body his physical body is still alive and
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inquiring what Lori valo had learned about that which she replied she had learned a lot and would contact him
00:26:21
later here's another text this is on July the 30th 2019. text from Chad Dayville to Lori Velo yes we might
00:26:31
need to release a little steam when we talk anyway this is the chart that checks what percentage Mortals are stay
00:26:38
in their body this number system is a it's a little hard to follow but Hart testified that
00:26:44
the numbers Chad refers to is a quote death percentage sounds like the closer a death
00:26:51
percentage was to a hundred or to a zero the closer that person was to death Lori's defense attorney John Thomas asks
00:27:00
her this in cross-examination all right any testified today that either being low percentage or a high
00:27:09
percentage could mean death is that correct that's my understanding all right so basically
00:27:16
[Music] isn't your understanding but you really don't have an understanding about what's
00:27:22
going on here as far as these percentages go I disagree I think that Chad dabel's
00:27:30
writings were inconsistent but it's clear that he designated uh JJ and Tyler and Tammy dabell as as he had them in
00:27:42
his death percentages and all three of those individuals ended up dead okay first of all that this was all about
00:27:50
fantasy that it's more of a Dungeons and Dragons pull out your 64-sided dice type
00:27:56
of thing is that is that possible absent the three people being killed perhaps here's more from agent heart
00:28:05
um and so my question is what happens when a person reaches a zero percentage according to the case that means that
00:28:16
they're ready for death they're ready for that throw their dead or they're what well clearly at that particular point in
00:28:24
time JJ wasn't dead but within six weeks he was a person's number reaches zero they are
00:28:33
ready to die there are three total conversations or sets of text strings regarding the death
00:28:41
percentage for JJ tiley and Tammy daybell uh there's this one there's another that
00:28:48
occurs on July 30th and then the third one occurs on August 10th listen to this and um what information and did Chad
00:29:01
dabell provide to Lori valo um about a number associated with Tyler he indicates that she is at 0.13
00:29:16
and what number did Chad day Bell provide about JJ's death percentage 99.99 He also mentioned a number system
00:29:26
alluding to turn up the physical pain inflicted on Tyler she is at 0.13 I turned up the pain to
00:29:39
10 and placed a spiritual virus in her here's more from those texts now turning to a text communication on
00:29:48
July 29 2019 um do you see that on slide 37 I do okay why did you include this text
00:29:58
Communication in your summary I included it because of its references to causing pain to Children okay can you
00:30:07
please read those uh the text Communications into the records line 1877 from Chad Dayville to Lori
00:30:16
valo one question do you want me to cause pain yet to those two threes you're riding with
00:30:24
line 1876 from Lori valo to Chad dabel probably hold off on then till we arrive they will be
00:30:35
mistake to deal with but I'll text you if they start acting up and we can zap them
00:30:42
line 1875 from Lori valo to Chad dabel miserable not mistake why in 1872 from Chad dabell to Lori
00:30:53
valo sounds great yes if they are going to act up we'll at least give them a reason
00:31:00
to scream I love cherish treasure and adore you the wonderful memories just keep coming back
00:31:08
the prosecuting attorney asked heart why these texts were included in the presentation he prepared to accompany
00:31:14
his testimony the references to hurting children and giving them a reason to scream
00:31:22
are relevant in any of these references and I think you've mentioned a couple of times that
00:31:29
concept did you ever see Lori valo protest like don't do that no listen to this okay
00:31:41
and in this situation looking at all of the messaging and communication that Lori valo had did you
00:31:50
ever see any evidence that J.J valo was alive after September of 2019. no did you ever see any evidence that
00:32:05
Lori was looking for him or trying to support him or help him after September 22nd 2019.
00:32:12
no as for Tyler did you ever see after September 8th of 2019 in any of her email accounts any of the information or
00:32:23
text message that Lori vallo was looking for her no did you ever find any evidence that Lori valo had that tally
00:32:32
was alive after September 8th of 2019. no and what's really interesting based on
00:32:39
these texts Lori doesn't show much sympathy for those affected by the deaths around her either Hart says she
00:32:46
ignores JJ's grandmother K woodcock's pleas for Lori to let JJ attend Charles memorial service and then in another
00:32:53
instance from the day after Alex shoots Charles there were texts from Lori to Charles's Sons Zack and Cole informing
00:33:02
them of their father's death by not telling them how he died the son's text asking for answers isn't that correct
00:33:09
right and Lori was not responding to them but according to heart she was still texting Chad here's an exchange
00:33:16
from just three days after Charles cevallo died from Chad Babel to Lori valo I need so badly to just gently kiss
00:33:24
you for hours line 28 88 from Chad Davis to Lori valo it would likely lead to other activities
00:33:35
line 2887 from Lori valo to Chad dabel likely or luckily line 2886 from Chad day Bell to Lori
00:33:47
valo it would luckily lead to nakedness it's quite a text and uh and it's clear that Charles's sons are incredibly
00:33:57
frustrated by the radio silence based on this text from the next day they also Express concern that they haven't heard
00:34:04
from the children Laurie's oldest son Colby and Tyler and JJ Okay Lori it's been three days you let
00:34:12
us know our father passed away over a text message three days and we haven't heard from anyone
00:34:18
the only information we have is that one text from you saying he passed away you
00:34:24
disappeared after that we need any information you have what happened when did it happen how did it
00:34:32
happen where is he now are there any funeral plans and can Zach and I be part of it we talked to him all the time and
00:34:41
now he's gone he was our dad and we loved him very much we deserve answers also why have you been the only one to
00:34:50
contact us we haven't heard from Colby or Tyler I know they are affected too I called Colby recently too but he didn't
00:34:58
answer is JJ safe and what does he know I need to be kept in the loop about this
00:35:06
all this isn't a nonchalant topic you can just throw a text at and be done with it
00:35:13
this really is heartbreaking you know those two sons lost their father and you know there's such a lack of empathy and
00:35:20
caring about him and Chad shows a similar lack of empathy regarding the death of his wife Tammy I mean on the
00:35:27
night she died he wrote to Lori saying not fun without you and the next morning the two talk how much they miss each
00:35:35
other line 515 from Lori valo to Chad Dayville that's true I do feel you I feel love sick I can't
00:35:46
sleep I don't want to eat I just want you it's so consuming line 514 from Chad dabell to Lori valo I
00:35:56
know exactly how you feel I'm feeling sad but it isn't for the reason everyone thinks
00:36:03
I mean what's what's clear here at least from the perspective of these children they were ghosted as they were trying to
00:36:10
find answers about what happened to their father Lori and Chad having these at times what seem like romantic
00:36:19
conversations very much active as Lori is being very quiet with whatever did unfold with Charles Balo to Charles's
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Sons the web of people impacted by this case only continues to grow we're going to end with this clip from heart in his
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cross-examination with Lori's defense attorney John Thomas he asks heart this as a whole as I said is indicated you
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reviewed all these texts or very a large number of these texts um isn't it sure that Maureen was for
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all intents and purposes a pretty good mother with the exception of what happened to
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her children yes [Music] our team at 48 hours will continue our reporting on the Lori Bello Diva trial
00:37:15
we'll be back next week with the latest coverage and Analysis throughout the trial exclusively on the 48 Hours
00:37:21
podcast in the meantime be sure to follow and listen to 48 Hours wherever you get your
00:37:26
podcasts you can also listen ad free on the Amazon music or wondering app Liza thanks so much for being with us today
00:37:32
we'll check back with you soon thanks so much Jonathan it's great talking to you
00:37:37
foreign [Music]