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foreign you testified that you trusted your sister after the discovery of JJ and
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Tyler did that change yes why [Music] I felt like too and my interest in my sister was broken
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foreign Vigliotti we're starting this week's special episode of 48 hours with emotional testimony from Lori valodie
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Bell's sister summer schifflit we're in the fourth week of testimony and Laurie dabel's trial for the murders of her two
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youngest children Joshua J.J valo and Tyler Ryan She's accused along with her husband Chad dabell of JJ and Tyler's
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murders as well as the murder of Chad's late Wife Tammy Dabo they've both pleaded not guilty and Chad Abel's trial
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will occur at a later date the 48 Hours team has been reviewing hours and hours of chord audio bringing you the latest
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highlights from each week of the trial we'll get into testimony from both Lori valadebell's sister as well as Tammy
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dabell's sister Samantha gwilliam we'll also learn more about what might have actually happened to JJ vallo and Tyler
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Ryan for all the latest we're back with long time 48 Hours producer Richie Fetzer who's been covering the case
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alongside me since 2019. welcome back Reggie hi Jonathan um thank you for having me back there's
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certainly a lot to talk about this week there is and much like last week the court heard gut-wrenching testimony from
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someone who may know Laurie as well as anyone else her sister summer schifflett I can't imagine Richie how hard it must
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be for her to have testified against her sister it's been reported that schifflick cried throughout her
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testimony which isn't surprising considering what she had to say about her relationship with Lori she and Lori
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were very close growing up according to schifflett and then as adults schifflett
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said that she was present in Lori and the children's lives did you uh see Tyler grow up
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yes how would you describe Tyler describe her as beautiful and witty and in a lot of different ways but
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eventually shifflett said she too began to hear Laurie's stories about past lives and the end of times right yes
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that's correct shifley testified that Laurie changed after she met Chad dabell and began to tell stories that shifflett
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found hard to believe 2019 did she tell you that she had been someone else in another life
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prior to 2018 prior to 2018. no in late 2018 or 2019 did she tell you that yes that she did she tell you about
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her previous lives yes did any of that make sense to you not really uh did you believe it
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I tried to I wanted to believe her but it didn't make sense listening to this it seems shiftlet really wanted to
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believe her sister but just couldn't wrap her mind around the things she says Lori was telling her
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fair to say that you trusted what she told you yes you believed your sister when she stated
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to you that JJ and Tyler were safe yes I'm going to draw your attention to early June of 2020. when JJ and Tyler's
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bodies were found you testified that you trusted your sister after the discovery of JJ and
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Tyler did that change yes why I felt lied to and my trust in my sister was broken
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now Richie I know you remember this I interviewed schifflett and her and Lori's mother Janice Cox about a month
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before JJ and Tyler were found and what struck me from that conversation was how
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much they believed the children were still alive possibly being hidden by friends maybe even in a bunker these
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were theories that they were all kind of mulling through their mind of course a much different scenario yes and of
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course when we did that interview it was just before the children's bodies were found and both of them really believed
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that JJ and Tyler were safe because that's what Lori was telling them and they really believed you know according
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to that interview that Lori was incapable of harming her children right and you can hear the apparent change for
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shifflet in a recording of a video called prosecutors played between shifflet and Laurie from 2020 this was
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just days after the children's remains were recovered at the time of this call Lori was already in jail on child
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abandonment charges and just days away from being charged again this time with two felony accounts of conspiracy to
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commit destruction alteration or concealment of evidence here's what summer asked her sister then
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this audio it's hard to hear it's recorded audio it's being played back inside the courtroom it's also very
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emotional as Laurie's sister confronts Lori about the deaths of her niece and nephew
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s [Music] we don't understand and you know they were there you can't talk about it
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Lori vallo relatively calm there as you can hear her sister struggling at times to even catch her breath to get a word
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out there's a big pause in the conversation but shiftlet keeps questioning Lori um
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yes I do wow it is just heart-wrenching to hear shifflett in this call and it's interesting as the call continues
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schifflet still seems open to hearing Lori out about what actually might have happened to JJ and Tyler
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don't understand kills me it's just a little kid again [Music] [Music] discoveries
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[Music] that's what you think I don't know I cannot I would love to it's so hard Richard to listen to this I
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mean clearly emotional but having spoken with summer schifflett and her mother back at a time when they were still full
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of hope that JJ and Tyler were alive clearly obviously this is the reality that summer should flip faces while also
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coming to terms with what sounds like this growing Instinct that maybe her sister was involved
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I mean that's I think the only conclusion you can come to listening to this and the devastation in her voice is
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frankly really hard to listen to uh shifley continues to question what Lori was thinking jetting off to Hawaii just
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weeks after police say her children had been killed and buried in her then very new husband Chad dabell's backyard
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wedding pictures I have and guess what I don't have one scripture that says it's okay for
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children to be drawn away by carvings in the ground and if that's okay there's nothing in the scripture that is
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Godly about hurting a child nothing I can't support that helpful to everyone this is the most
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selfish incredible no they can't think of anything worse there's a part of the call that we'll
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listen to coming up where it seems like Lori is getting frustrated saying nobody's seen me on the floor
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correct nobody knows what I've been through my children that I love more than anything
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you were dancing on a beach with a smile on your face I'm trying to go on with what you don't
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see I'm trying to find some kind of how conditioning I wanted to be alone do you think that your mother and your
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sister and your son don't deserve to know that the children are gone why wouldn't you call and tell us that
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why won't they cut off and you want to be happy he's gonna be happy with family in your
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life until you're stuck in jail and I'm the only one stupid enough to be your friend when I've been your best support
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of Maria h mad about you it hurts me I don't want to see you in jail I don't want you to be there I don't want people
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to misunderstand if you would tell me the truth I would stand up wrestling times
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wow as this call continues schiftlet goes on to implore Lori to consider that Chad
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daybell might have misled her you know I'm trying to support you in all of them but I am telling you
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because I love you with all my heart please consider that Chad has light and fantasy and that you have been deceived
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and that this is not what you think it is now you're hearing a lot of sniffling and that is summer schiffler in court
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listening back to this audio recording as it's being played despite the love shifflett says she has for her sister
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she keeps suggesting that she believes Lori was somehow involved in JJ and Tyler's deaths and this week turns out
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to be a week of sisters testifying summer schifflett wasn't the only sister we heard from
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thank you honor will you please state your name and spell your last name Samantha William g w i l l i a m
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are you related to Tammy davil yes I am she's my sister so we just heard the voice of uh Samantha William she
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testified how she and Tammy dabell grew up as the only girls amongst five siblings and how they stayed close
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throughout their entire lives that is she says up until Chad moved Tammy and the family to Idaho you know before that
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Williams says she saw Tammy every day and William rachite testified about what she says were some bizarre events
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starting with some visits her sister made took Williams home before she died William said during one unannounced
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visit she saw Chad sitting in the car while Tammy brought over a birthday present William says this distance was
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out of character for him meaning that he should normally have come up with that birthday present as well on Tammy's last
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visit she points out Chad wasn't present at all which William says was strange since Tammy did not like to travel alone
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Richie what else did William Tell jurors according to William the most telling stories occurred after Tammy dabell's
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death when she says Chad dabell told the family he'd remarried a woman named Lori
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you don't get married four weeks after you just buried your wife of almost 30 years you just don't do that
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and we found out it had only been two weeks after she had been buried and we were devastated
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devastated William says Chad told her that Laurie's previous husband had died of a heart attack and they had bonded
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over the deaths of their spouses now it's true that Lori valodiebo's third husband Joe Ryan had died of a heart
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attack but that statement omits what happened to Lori's fourth husband Charles valo who Lori had been married
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to just before she married Chad dabel William looked up Lori on the internet and says she learned about Charles
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valo's shooting death at the hands of Lori's brother Alex Cox just four months earlier
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um I discovered her her name was tied to valo and it brought up newspaper articles about a man in Arizona who had
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been shot in his own home by a brother-in-law and I took that to my husband and I said I
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think this is the same woman that he's married as William's testimony continued she
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says that she continued her research and she found an obituary for Charles valo where K Woodcock Charles valo's sister
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and JJ's grandmother comments about how quote we will take care of JJ unquote so this reference to a young child
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raised red flags for William she says she hadn't heard anything about children before this so she says she asked Chad
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about it and I said well so please help me understand so now that you've married her are you are there
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children because I had seen the other information and I said are you going to be raising
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kids together so after she asked that question William says this was Chad dabell's response and he told me no
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that there's no children and that they were going to be empty nesters empty nesters let's be clear here we
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know Lori did have children so for Chad dabel to say they were empty nesters I'm
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sure prosecutors see this as a very damning statement yes I I think that's the only way you can look at it and
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Williams says she then asked about how the family would support themselves after Tammy dabell died since Williams
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says Tammy as a school librarian was the main Breadwinner in the family and in the past Chad had relied on Tammy to
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contribute to the finances correct Chad was not able to financially support the family by himself no
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and he wasn't he didn't indicate to you that he'd found a new profession to do that no
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so presumably he may have needed to rely on support from his new spouse correct he uh told us that she had lots of money
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we have a lot more to get to but let's use this moment to take a quick break when we come back we're gonna hear
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testimony from crime scene analysts forensic experts and others who helped answer the question of what actually
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happened to Tyler Ryan and JJ vallo [Music] foreign [Music] producer Richie Fetzer last week we
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learned more about the deaths at the center of this case finally getting a little more clarity on where and how the
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children and Chad dabell's Wife Tammy died the testimony highlighted the scale and the depth of this wide-reaching
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investigation pulling agents and researchers from countless different government agencies Richie what did we
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learn from these experts yes so while we've already heard testimony about the June 2020 search of Chad day Bell's
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property FBI special agent Steve Daniels helped jurors picture the real scale of
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the operation on this on this site besides the evidence response team members we had about eight we had
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Rexburg police department members we had Fremont County Sheriff's department members we had other
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FBI employees helping on the scene so when listening to this chord audio I couldn't believe how many tools were
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being used in the search some are what you might expect like shovels rakes metal trowels and even a drone but there
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were other things that might not immediately come to mind like a high-tech laser Pharaoh scanner which
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makes a three-dimensional scan of the crime scene and then on the other end of the tech spectrum they use tongue
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depressors which they use to process the skeletal remains right and I understand
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part of why they needed all of those tools and this is graphic to discuss is because of how the remains were buried
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while according to FBI special agent Daniels a team located JJ without much trouble they had a much more difficult
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time with Tyler we do want to warn listeners that this material is still very disturbing so fast forward about
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eight minutes or so if you'd like to skip ahead Richie so agent Daniels spent several minutes describing how much
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difficulty they had digging through what they'd eventually realized was Tyler Ryan's burial site
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for a long time officers didn't even realize kind of what they were looking at they were uncertain what they were
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uncovering it included this green bucket that was melted and then what turned out
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to be teeth and bone and even a necklace with a silver charm on it so just such a
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big contrast for us as a team going from JJ's how precise everything was placed the stones the planks the wrapping of
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the body all intact versus Tyler's a reminder that officers have said they believe Tyler was killed on or around
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September 9th 2019 while JJ was killed later as he was last seen alive on September 22nd 2019. we've previously
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reported this JJ's remains were found wrapped in duct tape and plastic tylies were discovered dismembered and severely
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burned Richie what if anything can we deduce from the differences between how these two children were killed and
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buried yes so I think the first thing that comes to mind is some of the testimony we previously heard from
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Lori's sister-in-law zulemma pastenis that Lori allegedly said people could be taken over by demons or dark spirits and
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that the only way to completely cleanse the body of these demons is to bind or burn it and you'll remember there was
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testimony from other Witnesses claiming Lori had said both her children had been
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possessed yeah it's all very disturbing the the medical examiners and forensic Pathologists who conducted autopsies on
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JJ Tyler and Tammy Davis remains also testified their testimony as you can imagine was oftentimes very graphic and
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the defense tried to argue against the autopsy photos even being shown is that correct Richie several experts testified
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to the conditions of the children's remains and the tests that were done to hopefully learn what might have happened
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to them Dr Garth Warren conducted both JJ and Tyler's autopsies and he repeated some of what we've heard before but he
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went on further to conclude what the actual cause of death was for J.J valo I determine the cause of death to be
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asphyxia buy a plastic bag over the head and duct tape covering the mouth and then there's another segment that's
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other significant conditions I put bound with duct tape bruising to the arms and abrasion to the neck
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But ultimately that the cause of death was asphyxia buy plastic bag over the head the head
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and duct tape over the mouth Dr Warren also Drew attention to JJ's toxicology report which showed low
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levels of a drug called GHB it's often referred to as liquid ecstasy some refer it to as a date rate drug
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so it what it does it acts as a depressant on the central nervous system it can give you a sense of euphoria
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it can give you a sense of calming relaxation liquid ecstasy or the date rape drug Richie please help me
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understand this why would JJ have a drug like that in his system well Jonathan unfortunately it's kind of
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impossible to know so Dr Warren he acknowledges that GHB can be found in a variety of drugs that people use both
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medicinally and recreationally but it can also be found in the body naturally so we may never know you know why that
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drug was found in JJ's system yet another very frustrating mystery moving on to Thailand her remains were found
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scattered and burned so first of all Dr Warren was able to conclude that Tyler did not die naturally and that any
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burning likely happened after she'd been killed Dr Warren based on your autopsy of Ty Ryan and based upon your education
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training and experience have you formed an expert opinion concerning the cause of death of Tyler
00:24:15
Ryan yes I what is that cause of death I determine the cause of death to be homicide by unspecified means so Dr
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Warren tells the jury I can't tell you exactly why it's a homicide but it is a homicide so the coroner's office ends up
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sending Tyler's remains to Quantico where Dr Angie Christensen spends about a month scanning the fragments and
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concluding that some of the bones show signs of what she calls quote unquote sharp trauma sharp trauma so Dr
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Christensen testified that means something with a small surface area that was used to make an impact yeah that's
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correct so another FBI analyst speculated that the injuries could have come from a bladed tool like a machete
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or a hatchet okay so during testimony it was revealed some tools were found on Chad dabel's property where those also
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sent to a lab they were sent to a lab there was more than a dozen items that they collected and sent for DNA analysis
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a forensic pathologist her name is Catherine Dace testified that Tyler's DNA was was actually found on both a
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shovel and a pickaxe recovered from Chad dabell's property it seems prosecutors are trying to connect the dots that
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Tyler was killed and mutilated possibly using tools found at Chad day Bell's home yes and this evidence appears to be
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pretty damning then plastic bags and duct tape were recovered from JJ's burial site and it was on one of these
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pieces of duct tape that investigators recovered a hair a DNA analyst testified that after extensive testing the hair
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was matched to a DNA profile for Lori valadebell here's more of the analyst describing how unlikely it was that that
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hair could belonged to anyone else your statistics were 1 in 71 billion yes and he just again just and just briefly so
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that we're all clear what exactly does that statistic mean so that means that if I were to see this
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um I would stick my hand into a hat of DNA profiles I would expect to see this profile one in 71 billion times
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and that's 71 billion with a B I think short story here the odds are not in Lori valo's favor here so Richie
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prosecutors are trying to tie Laurie to JJ's burial is this the first time they've been able
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to do that this is the first time that I've heard anything about any physical evidence tying Lori to JJ or tylie's
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burial also on one of the plastic bags an Idaho State Police forensic scientist was able to find a finger and palm print
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that matched Lori's brother Alex Cox we also learned that a phone connected to Cox was seen near Chad dabell's property
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on September 9th a day after Tyler Ryan was last seen alive and then again on September 23rd a day after JJ was last
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seen alive so none of this looks good for Alex Cox but will remind listeners Alex Cox will never go on trial for his
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niece and nephew's deaths because he died in December of 2019 of what authorities say was natural causes in
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addition to these testimonies Richie about the children's remains we also got a glimpse into what investigators say is
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Tammy's cause of death as well yes so one of the first things we heard was a recording of a 9-1-1 call from Chad
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dabell and his son Garth we just found my mom she's on the ground Frozen or she's
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this and I don't know are you in Madison County or Fremont County Hello I'm Chad the husband
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um she's clearly dead sorry okay okay are you in Rexburg or because your address shown to Rexburg
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address that you're in Fremont County that's a wild person okay oh that's okay okay
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[Applause] can I get your name oh man okay Chad I'm gonna get somebody up to you right now okay
00:28:56
a very distraught sounding Chad diebell on the phone with 9-1-1 after discovering his wife Tammy as he
00:29:04
described it clearly dead after Tammy's death there was some back and forth about if an autopsy should be done
00:29:11
Richie what happened here yes so according to Fremont County coroner Brenda dye who was on the scene at that
00:29:19
time chat Dave Bill did not request an autopsy be performed and ultimately in this case you
00:29:25
determined to not have an autopsy conducted is that correct after Consulting with
00:29:31
the detective over the phone and officer Green Hall and deputy coroner Wilmore did Chad request an autopsy no did he
00:29:45
make any indication to you regarding the autopsy no so it's important to note that during
00:29:52
cross-examination Lori's attorney Jim Archibald brings up that Chad dabel's daughter Emma Murray also did not want
00:29:59
an autopsy performed on her mother Tammy daybell so Chad and Emma Chad and Tammy's daughter
00:30:09
asked you please don't do an autopsy they didn't deem it necessary Emma was against it because of the
00:30:21
stent of she didn't want that done to her mom okay and and so is it fair to say that you
00:30:31
believed Chad's version of events of what happened to Tammy davil unseen at that time yes Richard can you
00:30:44
remind us what was the original cause of death coroner die testified that the original cause of death that she came up
00:30:52
with for Tammy dabell was that she died of natural causes cause was pulmonary edema
00:31:00
due to sinkable episodes with seizure-like activity um and the manor natural and again that was based on in excuse me
00:31:13
let me back up was that based in large part on information Chad davil provided you
00:31:19
yes and also a daughter gave me some medical history background on her but investigators began to view Tammy
00:31:29
dabel's death as suspicious due to her health age Chad Abel marrying Lori so soon after so they had to remains
00:31:37
exhumed two months later on December 11 2019. Miss die based on the information that
00:31:44
you learned from the medical examiner and attending the autopsy do you intend to modify the death certificate in this
00:31:51
case yes and what would you be changing the death certificate for Tamara daybell to
00:31:57
reflect cause of the death asphyxiation the manner of death homicide [Music] our team at 48 hours will be reporting
00:32:10
on the Lori velodable trial we plan to bring you the latest coverage and Analysis throughout the trial
00:32:15
exclusively on the 48 Hours podcast in the meantime be sure to follow and listen to 48 Hours wherever you get your
00:32:22
podcasts you can also listen ad free on the Amazon music or wondery app Richie thanks so much for debriefing us again
00:32:29
we'll check back in with you soon thank you again for having me we'll just have to see where this trial goes
00:32:36
foreign [Music]