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foreign state of Idaho plaintiff versus Lori Noreen vallo AKA Lori Narine dabel defendant
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[Music] [Applause] welcome to another special episode of 48 hours I'm Jonathan Vigliotti the murder
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trial of Idaho mother Lori valadebell is now in its second week She's accused along with her husband Chad dabell of
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the unthinkable murdering her two youngest children Joshua JJ valo and Tyler Ryan as well as Chad's late Wife
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Tammy dabell prosecutors say the couple killed all three fueled by their end of times beliefs and to steal Social
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Security funds and insurance money both have pleaded not guilty the focus of this trial will be the three killings
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but Lori dabell also faces murder conspiracy charges in Arizona connected to the 2019 shooting death of her
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previous husband Charles valo the perpetrator was Laurie dabel's brother Alex Cox who died months later as the
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search for JJ Velo and Tyler Ryan was underway despite massive interest in this trial the judge has barred cameras
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from the courtroom so our team is taking the audio from the proceedings and sharing highlights from the trial in
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these special episodes today I'm joined by producer Richie Fetzer who's been working with 48 hours
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for almost a decade and covering this case from the start when the children were missing but still believed to be
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alive Richie welcome hi thank you thanks for joining us let's look back at the first week of the
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prosecution's case first off last Tuesday April 11th there's direct questioning of Rexburg Idaho police
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detective Ray hermosio what was detective hermosillo's role in this case so detective Ray Hermosillo works with
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the Rexburg Police Department he became involved in this case when he was one of
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the first investigators to realize that JJ and Tyler were missing and he began to investigate Lori Lori's husband Chad
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daybell and Lori's brother Alex Cox so it was just a missing person's case yeah and the detective speaks with Chad dabel
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Lori's husband and Alex Cox Lori's brother during this welfare check on JJ that welfare took again instigated by K
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Woodcock JJ's grandmother who hadn't been able to reach JJ for months we're gonna play a clip from detective
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hermosio as he was in court at that point Alex got a a blank look on his face kind of a frightened look looked over at
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Chad dabel who was on the other side of the pickup truck Chad then looked at Alex
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and they both kind of just looked at each other and didn't answer my question initially
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okay what did you think about that conduct uh it raised some red flags just based
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on their the way they acted with that question I I then again asked Alex if you knew where JJ was at and he
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stated that JJ was with Kay in Louisiana what did you think of that response I told Alex that wasn't likely because
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Kate was the one who called in for the welfare check um and then again they both kind of just
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looked at each other which again raised our suspicions so it's very interesting hearing this that you know Alex not
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being able to give an answer and then after this Alex even goes on to say that he doesn't have Laurie his sister's
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phone number and so does Chad dabell so his testimony didn't stop there we have a clip here of detective hermosio
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testifying to prosecutors about his interaction with Chad dabell I asked him how he knew Lori valo
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and he stated that he hardly met her hardly knew her that he had only met her a couple of times
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okay was there anything suspicious to you about that response there was what was
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that we knew that Lori vallo and Chad dabell had been married two weeks prior to my contact
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with him but he said he hardly knew her that's great I mean so many red flags that perhaps is
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the biggest red flag yeah it makes you wonder what Chad thought the police actually knew at that point because
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obviously at this point you know it's only two weeks after he and Lori had gotten married in Hawaii like
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it's it's interesting that he didn't think anyone else knew that and as the questioning continues it gets very heavy
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very quickly detective Hermosillo goes on to testify about law enforcement finding the
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children's remains on chadiable's property first he describes finding JJ I want I want to just warn listeners that
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some might find the following details disturbing so fast forward about two minutes or so if you'd like to skip this
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next part let's take a listen as they begin removing the top layer of soil it began to expose
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three large white rocks and at that point there was a strong odor of uh through my training experience
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it was a decomposing body okay is that something you've smelled before unfortunately yes I can't imagine
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what it was like inside that courtroom and then after that believe it or not the testimony becomes
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even more graphic again another advisory to our listeners they continue to dig around that
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what we started to call the burial site and eventually exposed what appeared to be a
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small body wrapped in black plastic the remains of J.J valo and then detective goes on to describe finding tylie's
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remains eventually we uncovered uh bits and pieces of tiley who we assumed was tiley
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um that had been burned I mean Richie you listen to this I I don't know how else to describe it than
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just sheer Terror the state in which the remains of these two young children were
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found while we don't know exactly what Lori was thinking while listening to this what do we know about how she
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perhaps reacted to the detective's testimony the gruesome descriptions of her children's remains being found after
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the beginning of this testimony there was a lunch break and Court came back and Lori wasn't in the courtroom so
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there was a moment of some confusion you know attorneys were walking in and out of the room and then eventually she was
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brought back in and her attorneys the defense team made a request with the judge that she be allowed to to be
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excused from the remainder of the day because of how graphic the testimony was so the prosecutors argued that they
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wanted her to be there and ultimately the judge agreed with the state and she had to stay for the rest of the day Okay
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Lori had to listen to the testimony yeah and the testimony only got more graphic
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detective Hermosillo went on to testify more about JJ's remains I saw um a little boy in
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red pajamas um he had a white plastic bag around his head several layers of duct tape from his
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chin to his forehead area his arms were duct taped with several layers of duct tape his arms were
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folded like this across his chest his feet were also duct taped and bound he had a white
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and blue child's blanket placed on top of him now Richie I remember and I'm I'm sure you have this
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seared into your brain as well when this discovery was first made when it was announced to Media a few years ago
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and the first thing I thought about was that duct tape how much of it was used to wrap JJ you
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don't use that much duct tape if the person is not responsive or unconscious it definitely takes your mind to some
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very dark places and inside the courtroom listening to this there's JJ's grandfather and grandmother how did they
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respond so it's been reported that JJ's grandfather Larry Woodcock was crying throughout the testimony which is
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understandable I mean it's very graphic and I can only imagine being someone with
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a close connection with this child that this is being described about I mean this this was not an accident this
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little boy didn't fall into a shallow grave in his pajamas with duct tape tragic there's there's no other way to
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put it I think this is a good time to take a quick break when we return Melanie Gibbs testimony about the end of
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times zombies evil spirits and more we'll be right back foreign [Music] the prosecutor's call witness who works
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at the Madison County Jail where Lori was being held before the children's remains were found while she was facing
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child abandonment charges they use this as an opportunity to play audio of a phone conversation between Lori and Chad
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why was this so striking so this testimony it's about this phone call that Lori and Chad had literally as
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investigators are in his backyard searching for the children on the property at this point they hadn't found
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anything yet and you can actually hear Chad filling Lori in on what's Happening properly
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[Music] again so the conversation goes on yeah right he says they talk a little longer and
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then say goodbye um I don't know right I don't know uh you can try yeah oh that's just like him
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[Music] I love you okay I love you now remember this phone call is happening as investigators are there
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searching the property and are about to find the children's remains in Shallow Graves Chad would soon find himself
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under arrest too Richie let's talk about Chad's late Wife Tammy both Chad and Lori are also charged with her murder
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Tammy dabell a mother of five and a librarian dies about two weeks before Chad marries Lori investigators were
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suspicious and wanted to know more about Tammy's death so Tammy dabel dies in October of 2019 and her remains are
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exhumed in December of that year I remember when that happened and there was a lot of questions of what they
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could learn at that point and it was actually revealed or confirmed actually in this
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trial that the prosecutors say that she died by asphyxiation so it's going to be
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interesting to see what else we learn about her case as the trial continues A lot happened on Wednesday the same is
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true for Thursday April 13th Melanie Gibb Lori's former best friend was called to testify on that day she
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testifies about the first time that she met Lori which was in 2018 she had already been familiar with Chad
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dabell they were kind of acquaintances and Melanie and Lori went to a conference and Melanie testified to
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witnessing Lori and Chad's first meeting and you know it's a reminder that at this
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time both of them are married to other people and Melanie describes a clear attraction and even describes it as
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flirty so one of the things I found most interesting from Melanie's testimony was
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when she described how Lori told her that Lori and Chad had been married in previous lives
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she shared with me that he told her that they had been married in another time period
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and did she tell you what she believed with regard to that she she did believe that she she had
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already had the belief system that this multiple lives as they would call it um she'd already believed that before she
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physically met him I mean I'm scratching my head here as I listen to this Richie prosecutors have
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said that Lori and Chad had religious beliefs about the end of the world what do they mean by that yes Melanie
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testified that Lori told her that she and Chad had an important role in the end of times she also described to them
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having a light and dark scale where they could actually tell if somebody was light or dark they described that people
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could be possessed by an evil spirit and one of those people was Lori's husband at the time Charles valo Chad let her
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know that Charles valo was taken over by an evil spirit and that was the first time
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she had heard of it and and then you know that made him dark according to them Melanie continues to
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talk about how she was involved in these castings that Lori would according to her gather groups together and try to
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actually cast out the evil spirit that was inhabiting people's bodies so one of these Spirits they gave a name Ned That
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was supposed to have taken over her husband Charles the first time they were able to they thought they were able to
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cast out this first spirit that took over Charles's body whose name was Ned when that Spirit laughed so they weren't
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sure how it worked and so after they believed Ned left then they would they would see that
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Charles was still alive and then they would come up with another idea that maybe another spirit and they
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come up with another name that that oh that Spirit was the one that took over his body here we are having discussions
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about spirits a rating system zombies which we'll get to more in a second because I want to just remind listeners
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at this point Charles Bellow was killed July 2019 by Lori's brother Alex Cox who
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claimed self-defense prosecutors say Chad's Wife Tammy dabell died of asphyxiation in October 2019 and Richie
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this is where we come back to zombies Chad and Lori married after both spouses had died we heard a lot of testimony
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that Chad and Lori believe certain people were zombies prosecutors questioned Melanie about it didn't they
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as a part of Melanie's testimony she described how Lori and Chad would use the term zombie for people that
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ultimately they would want gone did Lori Dean Charles a zombie yes did Lori refer
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to Tammy dabel as a zombie I believe so I probably use that word but I'm not 100 I
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think so did she refer to Tammy as being possessed yeah did she refer to Kylie as a zombie yes
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did she refer to JJ as a zombie yes Melanie also testified that months before police found the children buried
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on Chad's property when they were still searching for them that Lori and Chad tried to get her to tell police that JJ
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was with her all along Melanie describes getting a phone call from Chad informing
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her that the police were looking for JJ and that if the police called her to not
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answer and then later Melanie gets a phone call from Lori and Laurie informs Melanie that she told the police that
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Melanie had JJ with her in Arizona Melanie does lie to police but she clearly over time felt very guilty about
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it so she decides to call Lori and Chad recording the conversation she secretly records it and she confronts Chad and
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Lori about where JJ is I asked Chad the other day I was like hey um you know where where is JJ and he
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said for my security didn't know so is there a reason I should be in danger to know where he is
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nobody it's his danger it's the danger that there's people after me okay yeah that puts you in a danger well just in a
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bad position everybody if they don't know anything then they don't have to say they know
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right so you're just worried okay um so at this point Lori reiterates that JJ is safe but she won't say where he is
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and this really starts to raise suspicion I I think on both ends here it seems like no one is believing each
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other and and I think the next clip really highlights this let's take a listen this is of Lori valo now speaking
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to Melanie you know if you're recording this conversation for the police or whatever I don't know what your
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intention is all my heart and I have forever I appreciate those words but if you
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really love me you wouldn't have told the police that I had JJ with me that's not that's not what a friend does
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and if that just makes me look weird and it just it's not safe for me that doesn't look good I mean you had to
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think of my welfare if you love me thing that I felt the Lord was instructing me to do
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and I appreciate you and I love you better do anything to harm you and you can have all of this confirmed to you by
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the Lord so Melanie eventually told police she actually hadn't seen JJ in months and
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gave authorities the recording she made of this conversation Richie before we get on to Friday April 14th of testimony
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what stands out to me there is this is a phone call among friends and Lori very quickly
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believes that this is being recorded which just seems strange yeah it's very interesting when you
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listen to the phone call in its entirety because it starts off friendly and then
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the tone of the call as Melanie continues to question them about where JJ is shifts pretty quickly
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yeah this group who had allegedly been planning for the end of times very intimately Suddenly at least as I kind
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of take away from this call turns on each other let's move on now to Friday April 14th another big day for
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the prosecution yes there is an introduction of a lot of texts and emails between many of the key
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players in this case Chad dabell Laurie Alex Cox and then also Laurie's previous
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husband Charles valo who you'll remember was shot by Alex the summer before the children disappeared it's important to
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note that after this case concludes Lori will be facing conspiracy to commit murder charges in that case in Arizona
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for Charles's death so prosecutors introduced these texts which reveal that her husband Charles believed he had
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caught Chad and Laurie in an affair and he even you could see in the text messages contacts Chad dabell's Wife
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Tammy day Bell a couple times via email and it's it's not clear if she got them it doesn't seem that she responded but
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shortly after Charles's death there are texts between Chad and Lori where it appears she's learning or or has just
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learned that she will not be receiving a one million dollar life insurance policy
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for Charles it appears actually went to his sister Kay Woodcock so here is uh Detective Nathan Duncan and he's
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actually reading these text exchange between Chad and Lori Lori responded to Chad nope he can change it anytime he
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wants he's the agent and anyone can change the benefit beneficiary anytime with their
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own signature I'm thinking it must be k ad sent Laurie a message it will be interesting if he got it changed after
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he had two bullets in his chest was there an additional message located yes on 7 18 2019 at 12 19 hours
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Lori sent Chad a message so I talked to the insurance company he changed it in March so it was
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probably Ned before we got rid of him they can't tell me to who of course but it's done I'll still get the four
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thousand dollars a month from SS it's interesting because in those texts Lori seems to be referring to Ned that evil
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spirit that supposedly took over Charles and this is also kind of where we're getting a better sense of a possible
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motive it sounds like that life insurance policy may have played a big role in Charles balor's death yes so
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that seems to be what prosecutors might be implying in including this and it fits pretty well into their arguments
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that money was a big motive and Lori fallow's alleged crimes what other testimony did we hear Last
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Friday so a big person that testified was uh zulema pastenis who is Alex Cox's wife
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she'd actually married him just a couple weeks before he died and she testified largely as an Insider to Chad and
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Laurie's alleged extremist religious beliefs she seems to corroborate as Melody Gibb has the belief that people
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could be taken over by dark spirits and one particular part of her testimony that gives an Insight is that she
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describes that Laurie believed a way to prevent someone's body from being re-entered by a spirit would be to
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either bind them or burn them which is really chilling considering that JJ was bound with all that duct tape and that
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tylie's remains were so severely burned very haunting so is dilemma helping possibly connect some Dots here for the
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prosecution did zulema have any other insight into her husband Alex Cox so yes zulema testified that Lori and Chad seem
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to have convinced Alex that he had a Divine mission to protect Laurie and remember Alex told police that he had
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shot and killed Charles valo earlier that summer in self-defense and largely to protect her dilemma goes on to talk
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about a conversation she had with Alex five months after that where he makes this alarming statement indicating that
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he felt that Lori and Chad might be making him their quote unquote Fall Guy ultimately what did he say he was very
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quiet and unresponsive and then he said um I think I'm being their Fall Guy meaning
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and what did you say I said a Fall Guy for what what is it that that you have done what what have
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you done that you would be the Fall Guy for um it's like it was like I kept pressuring him and I was so frustrated
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because he wasn't answering me so I would walk away and he would say something and then I would come back and
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and he was and then I would pressure him again and then he said um one of the times when I was walking
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away from him he said um so Emma he there I am a man of God or I am not and then Alex passed away the next day
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she passed away the next day Richie it seems like Alex Cox will Loom large over this trial and I wonder what could this
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mean for the prosecution's case since he has passed away so that's a big Point Alex is
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appears to be according to the prosecution at the center of this murder case and
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you know part of their challenge the defense in their opening was very clear that they want the jury to focus on what
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Lori did and not what Alex or anyone else did what can we expect in the next week of this trial it would be
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interesting to see who else testifies what we do know is uh zulemma will continue her testimony and then after
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that since the witness list has been sealed by the judge we'll just have to see [Music]
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[Applause] our team at 48 hours will be reporting on the Lori valade ball trial we plan to
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bring you the latest coverage and Analysis throughout the trial exclusively on the 48 Hours podcast in
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the meantime be sure to follow and listen to 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts you can also listen ad free on
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the Amazon music or wundery app Richie thanks so much for debriefing us we're gonna check back in with you soon yes
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thank thank you so much for having me Jonathan it'll be interesting to see what else happens in this trial
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foreign [Music]