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[Music] hey long time no see how you doing I'm good how are you I'm fine going you look
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good you look really good thank you thank you you know mhm in February 2020 I made yet another trip to Florida my
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third to catch up with Crosley green it had been 5 years since I had last seen and spoken to him face to face I
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couldn't let go of crosley's case I couldn't get it out of my head it had been 21 years since I first started
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reporting on it and here I Was preparing another installment for 48 hours you and
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I have been seeing each other a long time 99 I think 99 yeah so a little over 20 years see I was really looking
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forward to this yes I wish too it was hard to believe but almost 2 years have passed since crosley's murder
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conviction had been overturned by a federal judge in 2018 overturned thrown out I'd hope that
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by now I'd be catching up with Crosley maybe at a cookout with his many family members and maybe Crosley would show me
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around Mims Florida his hometown and we could check out his church Crosley should have been out
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celebrating his freedom but instead we were meeting again in a Florida prison this time Calhoun Correctional
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Institution a long 5H hour drive from his home what do you want people to know about Crosley green the Crosley Green in
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2020 30 years 31 years that's enough to break a man that's enough to destroy a man but I want the people to know that
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I'm not destroyed I'm not down I'm still [Music] alive that was really important to
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Crosley to let me know he wasn't a Broken Man even after all the heartbreaking disappointments over the
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last 31 years this podcast Series has delved deeply into many of them when I went to see Crosley in 2020 he was 62
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years old and he had spent half his life in prison and in some ways this was the
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cruestv devopment of all crosley's prayers had been heard and Against All Odds his conviction had been
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overturned and yet he remained Behind Bars how is Crosley not free already I'm 48 Hours correspondent Aaron
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morard this is murder in the Orange Grove the troubl case against Crosley Green episode seven free at
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[Music] last in 2018 Crosley green finally won a rare but major victory when a federal
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judge overturned his conviction the judge had agreed with crosley's attorneys that former assistant State
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Attorney Chris White who handled crosley's 1990 trial had violated crosley's constitutional rights when he
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withheld crucial notes from the defense information like that is very powerful and it it would be explosive to
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introduce it into court this is Kenneth nun he's a visiting law professor at Howard University who also served on the
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Florida innocence commission a group that suggests changes to Florida law to avoid wrongful convictions I would
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assume there are people sitting in prison right now actually Innocent but because they can't prove that either the
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prosecutor made an error or withheld evidence or the judge did they're just going to sit there for the rest of their
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lives yes or their defense attorney because they may have been the one to make the error as well so if you can't
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show there was an error that was made by somebody then you can sit in prison for
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the rest of your life Professor nun knows crosley's case well and we met up recently to talk about its NeverEnding
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twists nun said that prosecutors are obligated to turn over evidence like the notes in this case he said it's
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fundamental to our criminal legal system which hinges on due process finally he got his conviction overturned how
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unusual is it to get that kind of ruling well that's if you have a federal court
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after many many levels of State review to look at the case and say there was a conviction it happened 30 years ago but
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it shouldn't have happened and to correct that that is not an everyday occurrence in the criminal legal system
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so it's a big deal a really big deal because with that ruling in the eyes of the law Crosley
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green was once again an innocent man and yet he remained Behind Bars nearly 2 years later in
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2020 rosley wasn't released immediately why not judges want to make sure that the community is protected and that
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people who committed a crime actually receive the punishment that they are due so they're going to give the prosecution
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an opportunity to show that there was a problem in the case after the federal judges rulle the state had 90 days to
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decide whether to retry crosley's case which is what Crosley was hoping for or to appeal the decision the state decided
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to appeal all Crosley green has wanted through all these years is a new trial correct I mean we have seen everything
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that went wrong with his trial including this very questionable photo lineup all
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the Witnesses who recanted their testimony contradictions in the only eyewitnesses
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testimony why wasn't he given a new trial at that point it's a very big hurdle for the prosecution to win a case
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after 30 years if they're thinking we're going to have a new trial then we have to call witnesses that may
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not be alive at this point 30 years later we might not be able to find mind whose memories may have dissipated and
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they have the burden approved it's much easier for them to say okay we'll just have an appeal we're going to kill some
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trees and send some papers up and have another Court look at this and then that will make a decision it just seems like
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there's so many obstacles to have someone just take another look at this case Congress and federal courts are
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more concerned with preserving convictions than they are concerned with making sure that innocent people get
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released from prison while the state pursued an appeal everything was put on hold
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including crosley's release the same federal judge who overturned his conviction also ruled that Crosley had
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to stay in prison for the appeals process even though I should point out here Crosley was a model prisoner the
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assistant Warden at Calhoun Correctional told me that Crosley had a near perfect
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record and yet he remained in prison it was a devastating blow to Crosley and his family and for his
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attorneys Keith Harrison and Jean Thomas it was perpetuating the wrongful incarceration of an innocent
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man I actually think it's a tragedy um that he remains in prison Crosley at this point is innocent until
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proven guilty if it were the original trial there's the Speedy Trial Act which guarantees
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that the trial must take place within a certain amount of time but on appeal and
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on these post conviction proceedings there's no clock running so now the fact that we have a decision that he was
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wrongfully convicted and he is entitled to a new trial it's incredibly frustrating that there's nothing to make
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the process happen faster since he's been sitting there waiting for his day in court again what has he lost well
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he's lost family members and it was very hard on him in part because he had historically played the role of a father
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figure in their family he still thinks of himself in that role and it was extremely hard for him not to be there
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for uh his family at you know their time of grieving the the the closest two are my two
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sisters you know both of them Brenda and tin and they was like back to back within two years of each other you know
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couldn't go to their funeral couldn't go to the funeral that's been tough that's been
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tough you've lost a lot yep while Crosley remained in prison and separated from his family his case still
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inched forward in March 2020 the lawyers on both sides argued in front of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in
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Jacksonville Florida how much is writing on that hearing literally everything if the
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Court ruled R in our favor and says the district court got it right when it ruled that Crosley had been wrongfully
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convicted then we will immediately move for his release and the state will have a limited period of time to retry him or
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or decide not to retry him um which is certainly the state's option but there's also the chance that
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the appeals court would side with the state of Florida and reinstate crosley's conviction
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keeping Crosley in prison for a life sentence there was so much writing on this hearing and yet Crosley himself was
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not allowed to go to Jacksonville to witness the oral arguments but his family showed up in full force including
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his younger sister Sheila who had once testified against him at trial and his sister Shirley they had gone after work
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driven through the night to get there in time for the morning hearing surely led
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the family in a prayer ask for our brother Freedom oh heavenly father in the name of Jesus amen
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amen the focus of this hearing those crucial notes that former prosecutor Christopher white took after meeting
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with First Responders Diane Clark and Mark rxy 31 years ago when they told told him that they questioned Kim H's
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story from the start we're going to be focused on what the impact would have been if the government
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had not hidden these notes 13524 Crosley Alexander green versus the secretary of the Florida Department of
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Corrections on March 12th 2020 the hearing opened with Assistant Attorney General Kelly nean a addressing the 11th
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Circuit Court we are here appealing an order where a district court granted a new trial to Mr Crosley green based on
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an alleged Brady violation by the state you listening to a court recording of some of the hearing we believe that the
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District Court's factual findings are clearly erroneous nean argued that the notes withheld from crosley's defense
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team pointing to Kim HCK were simply opinions of First Responders not evidence they administered first aid to
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the dying victim they collected a firearm they roped off the scene and that's all they had to do with this case
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she added that both Clark and rxy had been deposed before the trial and they hadn't disclosed this information either
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but defense attorney Keith Harrison argued that the notes were crucial to crosley's defense and would have changed
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the course of the trial they were all deposed but those depositions would have been completely different if these notes
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would have been disclosed these notes would have been a game changer in this clip you'll also hear the voice of
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visiting Circuit Judge William Traxler are you saying that prior to trial defense counsil did not know what the
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two detectives flocks absolutely these officers in these notes were trying to paint a
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picture for the prosecutor that they had the wrong man and that the investigation
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was going in the wrong direction defense had no idea about any of that after the hearing crosley's family was
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hopeful I asked attorney Keith Harrison if he was as optimistic what's the best case here the court rules in our favor
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and at that point we would move for C's immediate release from prison [Music] [Music]
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Crosley green had won a big decision in federal court but because the State of Florida appealed it his future depended
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on what the court of appeals decided his attorneys as I mentioned went before the
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11th Circuit Court of Appeals on March 12th 2020 but there was no timeline for when
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the appell court needed to make a ruling and in this case the timing couldn't have been worse for CR green we are
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going to begin right now with breaking news because the World Health Organization has declared the Corona
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virus outbreak a pandemic citing alarming levels of spre of all the ups and downs in crosley's case a global
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pandemic was truly something no one could have predicted no one wants to get sick in
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prison even if you have picture perfect health but by 2020 Crosley was in his early 60s and had developed some health
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issues here again is defense attorney Keith Harrison so while in prison Crosley uh was tested and it was
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determined that he had latent uh tuberculosis which means it's not active but it does pose an increased risk if he
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were to contract covid getting Cy out of prison was no longer just about Justice
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it was about saving his life at the time the State of Florida published the number of covid deaths that happened
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within its Prison Walls and I remembered reading those reports anxiously as the numbers kept going up and
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up on April 18th 2020 48 Hours released its broadcast on Crosley green we had hoped that our report would push his
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case forward but remember we were in the middle of a pandemic and everything had
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stopped but when the pandemic dragged on yet another year crosley's attorneys took
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action in March of 2021 they filed an emergency motion asking for crosley's immediate release due to the threat of
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covid-19 while they waited for the decision they asked the secretary of the Department of Corrections to act due to
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quote increased risk of serious illness or even death from covid-19 and added quote if Mr Green
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should meet that same fate while awaiting the 11 circuits decision it will be a miscarriage of justice of
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unconscionable proportions on April 7th 2021 phone started ringing and pinging at the croll
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and moing law firm in Washington DC it was a Whirlwind of a day my phone started just blowing up and I looked at
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it and you know it was a text that said we did it cwy is going to be released the court directed us to inform the
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warden to release Crosley as quickly as possible I have never seen an order like
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that even though attorneys Keith Harrison and Jean Thomas had worked toward Crosley Green's freedom for 13
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years this was such a Sur surprising development a moment they both dreamed of and now it was happening Crosley
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green was finally going to be released from prison and they had to act quickly I called his brother OK Conor
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who couldn't even speak he was crying we let the family know they hit the road they had to drive all the way across the
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state about 5 hours then Jean and I decided Well you know there's one flight that might get us there in time so we
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rushed to make that flight and it was really surreal I remember hearing the news and immediately getting on the
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phone afterward furiously searching for a camera crew that could get to Florida Crosley was going to be stepping out of
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prison in just a few hours the gates opened and Crosley stepped out and he had two bags in his hand one bag was
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filled with books and the other was filled with all of his uh court papers later that day at 1: p.m. in a dimly lit
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parking lot crosley's family Harrison along with Thomas and other members of crosley's legal team stood outside of
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Calhoun Correctional Institution waiting and watched a familiar figure walk out of the gate
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Crosley was finally leaving prison and he stepped out and he paed paused for a moment um and he kind of looked up at
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the sky and he looked around I mean he was trying to take it all in and then he looked at me and he dropped his
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bags and we embraced we didn't say a word we both shed some tears um but eventually we we released
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and I said Cy there's some other folks here who want to hug you down down there a local cameraman we hired was there to
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capture this big moment what's do through your head okay okay okay um I can't wait to see the rest of my family
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that's what's going here get to see my I want to see my kids my grand kids after nearly 32 years behind bars
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Crosley green was released from prison due to concern over his age and health issues but it was only a temporary
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release the appeals process was still underway and if Crosley lost the appeal there was still a looming chance he
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would have to return to prison but the federal judge who had overturned his conviction decided that for the time
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being he could wait at home with his family crosley's Freedom had been decades in the making but his actual
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release happened over the course of just a day I knew this day was going to come but I
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couldn't tell you when I just gave it to the Lord and let him do I was on his will having faith and uh I had a lot of
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faith in that I he was going to do this for me tell me glad you're home glad to see this day
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Lord thank you Jesus thank you it was it was incredible I mean tears were flowing
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the the family was you know just screaming and crying and um it it was just uh glorious it it it was so
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joyous it was like a clash where cley just basically ran into the arms of his screaming family it's a moment that I'll
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never forget this day this is the day that we long for God we thank you Father God right now in advance for you
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bringing our brother home Crosby green father family stood in a circle with Crosley in the middle and Keith right
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next to him all holding hands they set a prayer in Jesus name we pray amen amen amen amen thank you Jesus
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amen the next day crosley's legal team held a press conference first of all uh I want to thank
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God I want to thank God that I'm standing here today as a free man I want to thank my
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lord for making imp possible it's hard to really put in the words of my feeling at right now but my
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feelings are so so strong as of being a free man today Crosley was released on a
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Wednesday night and was staying at his brother-in-law's house I got there 3 days later for his first interview as a
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free man hey Daddy how you doing it was a sunny day a bit windy and his family was all around us having a big barbecue
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the food was plentiful music was playing in the background and everyone was feeling good especially Crosley as I
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walked up to him he looked the most relaxed and happy that I had ever seen oh my
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God hey can I hug you can I hug you okay I think we have all this time oh my God thank you thank you thank you thank
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you thank you than I can't believe this I cannot believe this you know that first time
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when I met you you were in a very different place do you remember that yes oh my God you look great you look great
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thank you you look you look great though you're still looking good girl remember
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the first time I met Crosley he was on death row but this time we were in the fresh air it was such a good feeling to
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finally be sitting in a lawn chair under a Florida Sky across from a man I had only seen previously in shackles and
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instead of a prison uniform crley was dressed in a t-shirt and shorts I started the interview the same way I did
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for the past 21 years by asking Crosley to introduce himself ah crley I've been F 32 years
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for Crime I been committed and now I'm free for a little while at least but I'm free and what does that feel like so
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sweet so so sweet when you were sitting in calhon and you were imagining getting
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out what was the first thing you wanted to do hand me a pain out ice cream really he I got
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it for years Crosley had craved something that most of us take for granted a scoop of strawberry ice cream
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so on his first full day of Freedom Crosley went to an ice cream parlor with him were some of his grandchildren he's
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my two favorite babies yeah I'm glad to be home with him how you feel bu good you feel good okay okay and what did it
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taste like oh man so good was that really the first time that being free sunk in yeah I was able to
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get what I want I don't think I fully appreciated what Freedom really meant until I spoke
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with Crosley that day for over three decades he was unable to make any decisions for himself what to eat or
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when to eat it when to take a shower or for how long but on this day Crosley was
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finally able to do what he wanted when he wanted to do it he finally had the power to choose something for himself
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I've also been interviewing several of crosley's relatives for decades ades but until this moment I hadn't had a chance
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to meet his extended family and it's a big one tell me who every you know who everybody is here this is uh my uh great
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nephew this is my great niece this is my granddaughter I got another granddaughter here Crosley was meeting
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some of his relatives for the first time you did miss a lot didn't you yeah I missed a lot how are you
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13 13 how old are you 11 she's 11 that's that's 13 years already gone I can't get
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that's 11 years already gone that Kan year you know what else what else has just struck you that is different in
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just these days have you noticed I still wake up at the same time around 3:00 3:30 and you know what I do
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I walk out doors sit on that back of that pickup truck you know what I'm saying and look up and say thank God I'm
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free you know man I get me a coup of Cofe sit down and smoke me a cigarette you know listen this is a
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wonderful thing it's a wonderful feeling to be free I really is see I'mma show you I I'm now this is just a little joke
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okay suddenly Crosley stood up and he started to unclip his microphone he he began walking away I wasn't quite
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sure what was happening and you can actually hear the confused voice of Dennis my cameraman who thought that
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Crosley was abruptly ending the interview and then Crosley started to laugh no oh oh my bad but but yes still
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I'm going to do this here no don't worry about it don't worry about it we're not going to be able to
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hear you but I don't want you to hear me oh hit this here I don't want you to hear
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me I have no idea what he's going to do here you don't know I don't what are you
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going to do what you don't know no I ain't got to do this interview you understand what I'm coming
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from now I I do you now could choose ask can you I made this Choice that's the thing about this whole interview I am
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able to make a choice now to be with my family this moment really caught me on off guard Crosley was showing me what
00:29:00
his new found Freedom meant to him in the past when I interviewed him in prison someone else told him where to
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sit and how long he could talk today he could call the shots he could stand up during the interview or he didn't have
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to talk to me at all I started to laugh but luckily for me Crosley did put his microphone back on and sat down to
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continue our conversation if it wasn't for my family I I wouldn't be here my sister celese
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she always told me don't give up your day going to come I used always say all right girl
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when I get out we going to do things you know but that day never came she died crosley's sister Celestine known as
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Tina was buried in a cemetery just down the road from where we were sitting and this was when Crosley described the
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boundaries of his freedom during his temporary release Crosley couldn't visit Tina's grave or go most anywhere else
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without special permission from his probation officer he was free but within limits show me where where can you go
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right here I can't go on that sidew what would happen if you went on the sidewalk well that's that's my
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borderline he walked up to an invisible border a property line between his brother-in-law's house and the neighbors
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that he couldn't cross show me take me a little bit where you can go how far here
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about right about right here Crosley stood on the grassy edge of the yard right along the sidewalk I was
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told I couldn't go to the mailbox and I want to be out here I have this Freedom here
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if it ain't it 12 yards I like I take them 12 yards of Freedom he walked across his 12
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yards of freedom and then showed me his new Jailer here it is right here this ankle b b right here cley
00:31:18
pulled down the sock on his right leg and revealed an ankle monitor a constant reminder that his movements were limited
00:31:26
in his home confinement crley though does that ankle bracelet also remind you that your time home might be
00:31:35
temporary it does it does I I got to be honest with you it does a week later on April 17th 2021 48
00:31:56
Hours aired our fourth bro cast on Crosley Green's case and for the first time since I
00:32:08
started reporting on his case back in 1999 I finally got to say the words Crosley green is out of
00:32:18
prison but as we've already discussed Crosley was not truly a free man he was living in a legal limbo waiting for the
00:32:28
appeals court to make its decision still he moved on with life he was allowed to
00:32:34
get a job as a machinist at a local tech company while on Sundays he was permitted to go to
00:32:44
[Music] church with me you with my father with me crley knew he was living on borrowed
00:32:59
time and he Faithfully followed the rules of his temporary release still he dreamed of the open road he asked around
00:33:08
if anyone was selling a used motorcycle that he could buy and he was put in touch with a woman named Kathy
00:33:16
spikes one of his friends caught me asking if I was selling my motorcycle and I said I didn't have it
00:33:24
but I would help them look for one if they were serious and then about two weeks later we talked to the
00:33:31
phone and we talked about bike a little bit we talked for about 6 hours um he told me about being incarcerated but
00:33:39
didn't tell me full details um just told me that he was recently um released and
00:33:46
he was on house arrest so he couldn't go anywhere and he just wanted to see a different side of life I mean did you
00:33:54
have some hesitation that you're talking to this man and you enjoy talking to him
00:33:59
but he's admitting he's under house arrest and he just got out of prison uh didn't that make you a little
00:34:07
nervous yeah yes um but also I'm told not to judge they hit it off on the phone talking over the next few weeks
00:34:17
finally Crosley took a chance and asked Kathy if she would meet him in person I was in a place to where I said you know
00:34:24
I wanted to be with someone and I did not know who or when or what but I was kind of open at that point to meeting
00:34:33
different people so I just said okay Cathy decided to take a leap of faith and meet this mystery man she was
00:34:40
suddenly drawn to um he wanted a root beer that night so I took him a root beer it was uh June 30th and then I text
00:34:51
my sister I think I met my husband you're kidding that's why I know the date like exactly
00:34:58
the feeling was Mutual for Crosley it was love at first sight too someone I meet someone that that's going to be a a
00:35:08
perfect partner for me and matter of fact since that first day she's been right there by my
00:35:18
side Kathy is a certified nurses aid quick to smile and laugh she works at a hospice center caring for the sick and
00:35:27
those facing death she had moved from Ohio to bravard County after visiting Florida on vacation Kathy had always put
00:35:36
her career first but when she entered her 40s she wanted to find love she appealed to a higher
00:35:45
power I wrote a letter to my grandmother who's in heaven asking her whenever she
00:35:50
speaks with God let her know um what kind of man I want what I want as a husband and two weeks later he
00:35:59
calls and how did you describe the man you wanted when I'm weak he's my strength
00:36:07
when he's weak I'm his strength I had prayed and really asked the Lord to put somebody in my life you know what I'm
00:36:16
saying and I've told her that I said listen the best thing ever happened to me was that you got in my life I said
00:36:24
cuz I that's the one thing I did ask God for if I ever get set free give me somebody that I'm going to settle down
00:36:33
with you know enjoy life with so both of you separately had prayed that you would
00:36:40
find love yeah and you found each other yeah this was a development I never expected I later asked Kathy about the
00:36:51
moment she learned that he had been in prison for murder and if that caused her to have any second thoughts
00:36:58
I went home and I Google I'm thinking oh my goodness you you this cannot be true
00:37:04
and call my sister and toally like I I was ready to jump ship but at that time I've already invested probably three
00:37:12
months of just talking and just being around him and then I was like okay the person that I was with was a person that
00:37:20
had compassion a person of much Faith a person that will give somebody the shirt
00:37:26
off their back you know the more him and I have spoken about it I don't believe it at all even
00:37:33
though Crosley remained under house arrest at his brother-in-laws that didn't stop him and Kathy from dating
00:37:40
like a typical couple we Netflix and chill Netflix and chill ain't that what we did for the
00:37:48
first weeks why are you when I tell her that that's the truth my brother-in-law get a kick out of her I mean
00:37:59
always enjoying ourself laughing having fun it's like to him little teenagers just fall in love
00:38:10
is that kind of the best way to describe you like two teenagers in life in a sense we ain't just like little
00:38:17
teenagers at times at times we really do but it it go farther than that with me mhm you know I think it does with her
00:38:26
too that teenage love turned into a strong unshakable bond Crosley asked Kathy to marry him I would have never
00:38:37
thought that I would first of all fall in love with someone that was accused of such a crime but let
00:38:48
alone you know being in love with them to know that that's my husband and willing to stand by that
00:38:57
neither Crosley nor Kathy wanted to talk about it but the threat of going back to
00:39:03
prison loomed over the couple like a raincloud by the beginning of 2022 Crosley was still waiting for the
00:39:11
appeals court to make a decision would they side with the state and reinstate crosley's conviction or rule in
00:39:20
crosley's favor and even that could present a risk because if the court were to side with Crosley the State of
00:39:29
Florida would have 45 days to decide whether they would recharge and retry him for the murder of Chip
00:39:38
Flynn what I've been telling you for the last 20 something years that I was innocent I want my da Court to prove
00:39:48
that okay give me my shot to prove that you still have faith in the system after your first TR
00:39:58
why your now the court syst didn't put me in here people all put me in here I really
00:40:05
bleed that deep down in my soul I'm not going back to prison and then in March 2022 the appella court finally handed
00:40:15
down its decision after almost 4 years and crosley's fate would change yet again on the finale of Murder in the
00:40:26
orange Grove the troubl case against Crosley green when I first heard about it you
00:40:33
know I was I was shocked why so much is going against me when do you feel that sometimes that
00:40:39
just as soon as you make a step forward there's something that step backwards you make a step forward step
00:40:49
[Music] backwards murder in the Orange Grove was reported by me Aon morard alongside
00:40:56
producer ERS Alan Pang Annie Cronenberg and Allison Bailey Kiara Orbitz is our coordinating producer and Florence
00:41:05
Barrow Adams is our story editor additional production support from Dylan Gordon Marlon polycarp Caroline Casey
00:41:14
and Christine Driscoll Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48 Hours Gail Zimmerman asena basak Mark goom
00:41:23
Charlotte Fuller Judy Ryback and Steven McCain produced the original 48 Hours episodes associate producers were
00:41:32
Michael Loftus and Shaheen Toki Patty aronowski was a senior producer special thanks to Megan Marcus
00:41:41
Jamie Benson Nick poser and Gail spru