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[Music] Moscow will forever be known as a scene of one of the most tragic crimes in
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American history. There's still sort of a a darkness whenever you talk to people. It will be ever part of the
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university's history and the town's history. There are four very very important names
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in this case. Kaylee Gonzalez, Madison Mogan, Xan Kernodal, and Ethan Shapen. And if you're going to
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remember any names from this case, I ask that it be all four. My name is Olivia Gonzalez, and Kaye was my little sister.
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Everybody's going to work and you look out the window and there's kids running down the street laughing and you're just
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like, "How can you be out there playing? My daughter's dead." You know, Kaylee Gonzalez is
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gone. Stop everything. Everybody in the whole world, stop. And everything just keeps going.
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[Music] My sister Zanna Kernodal is one of the happiest, funniest people I've ever met. And I had
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the awesome privilege of growing up with her. And I still have a hard time coming
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to terms with the facts that did happen. Brian Cobberg is accused of stabbing these four University of Idaho students
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in the pre-dawn hours on November 13th, 2022. Uh the murder weapon, which was a knife, has never been found. This is
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type of survival knife. Brian Coberger did not make his own plea. The judge entered a plea for him of not guilty.
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Maximum penalties, life in prison, or the death penalty. Due to the nature of the crimes, the state of Idaho is
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seeking the death penalty. He was there to kill. He came in with the kit. I believe he had a kill kit. And you
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believe that everything right down to the implement of destruction, this large marine knife, that was all planned. All
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planned. It was inhumane. You wouldn't do these type of things to any living creature, let alone an innocent human
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being. The star piece of evidence in the prosecution's case is the DNA that was found on the knife sheath that was left
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at the crime scene that there's so much other evidence that's also pointing towards nobody else that we're aware
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of. How was Brian Cobberger's car spotted leaving the scene? Why was his cell phone seen there 12 times,
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including the morning after the offense? Prosecution would like everyone to believe that it's an open andsh shut
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case. But I think the facts they have make the case more open than open and shut. According to the defense, there is
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no connection whatsoever between Brian Cobberger and the victims. And if there is no connection, then there is no
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motive. And if there is no motive, then it becomes very hard to make the case that he is the killer. And this is a
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graduate student, not a trained assassin. It's more so about putting these pieces together because I know
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what the puzzle looks like at the end. I have the box in front of me, but I'm missing so many
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pieces. How did all of these pieces fall to create what I'm living in right now?
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Where did Where did this come from? [Music] [Music] It was not the new Steve and Christy
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Gonzalves wanted to hear. In August of 2023, just 6 weeks before the murder trial of Brian Coberger was set to
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begin, he waved his right to a speedy trial. Should we begin? Absolutely. They would have to wait
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indefinitely for their day in court. I was really hoping that um we could get this show on the road because uh the not
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knowing it just it's agony. It's [Music] agony. Steve and Christy, the parents of
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Kaye, haven't left anything to chance. After the judge issued a gag order to attorneys and law enforcement, quote, to
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preserve the right to a fair trial, they drilled down on their own investigation
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and are now sharing what they believe that investigation found. Steve says he believes transparency is the best path
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to justice. We're not going to just sit back and cross our fingers and pray that
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we're going to get justice. [Music] It has been a long and painful journey for the families of Kaylee Gonzalez,
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Maddie Mogan, Zana Kernodal, and Ethan Chapen. the four University of Idaho students who were savagely murdered by a
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knife wielding asalent in the wee hours of November 13th, 2022 as they settled down to sleep in their off-campus house
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on King Road. Do you ever dream of your sister? Yeah, I've had some dreams of her. But there's times where I prayed
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and asked God to see her another time and I did and just gives me some peace knowing that I know she's
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[Music] okay. Jasmine Kernodal who is speaking for the first time was a senior at
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Washington State University and lived only 15 minutes away from her younger sister Zana. Often mistaken as twins
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growing up, she says they were best friends. She just was always fun and she was uplifting and she took any bad
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situation and turned it into a good one. Jeeoff, what did you love most about your daughter?
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Everything. She cared about people. She was a people person. She cared about her friends just as much as
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like her family. For the first time in her life, Zana had fallen in love with fellow student Ethan Chapen, a triplet
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who loved his siblings, boats, and working on a tulip farm. The sweetest kid ever. They were just two happy
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people. And there's just seeing the videos and photos of them, you can just like tell how happy they are. They were
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just amazing together. Sadly, they will now forever be linked in death. On Sunday morning, November 13th,
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Zana's friends started calling Jasmine, saying something bad had happened on King Road. Jasmine rushed over to Zana's
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house. And while you're driving that 8, 9 miles over to the house, are you trying to reach your sister then? Mhm.
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How many times do you call her? A lot. I called her a lot. Called Ethan a lot. Her next call was to her father. Jeffrey
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had been visiting Jasmine for dad's weekend and was on his way home. So, you answer the phone. What do you hear? I
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hear her kind of crying and just telling me to get back to Moscow and meet me at
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Santa's house and you know, my heart drops. He instantly raced back down there. The house was cordoned off and
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swarming with investigators. As soon as Jeffree said he was Zana's father, he and Jasmine were escorted to the Moscow
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Police Department. And Jasmine, what does the officer say to you and your father? Oh, I don't remember exactly.
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Just that four people passed away and that one was Santa. The worst day of your life. just your
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worst nightmare. It just happened. You know what do you do? You can't do a damn thing.
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100 miles away, the Gonzalez family also had been getting frantic calls saying something bad had happened to their
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daughter Kaye, but no one knew what. I just kept saying over and "What do I do? What do we do? What do we do?" Finally,
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at around 4:00 in the afternoon, a deputy appeared at their door and we said, "What's going on? I can confirm
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your daughter's died. It's passed away." That point. He said, "There were four victims." And we and I said,
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"Four?" And he said, "Yes, ma'am." I said, "Can you tell us if one of the victims was Mattie Mogan?" And he said,
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"Yes, ma'am." Maddie Mogan, Kayle's best friend from childhood. give us a sense of just how
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close uh Kaye and Maddie were in life. I think that they had a very amazing relationship. The epitome of true best
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friends from very early. I mean, they were sisters through and through. They were um completely
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inseparable. As soon as the news hit, Olivia, the eldest of the five Gonzalez children,
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and her parents went into detective mode. We had zero details. We just knew they were gone. Olivia got into her
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sister's call log and frantically started cold calling recent numbers. She says a friend told her that Kaye had
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been at the corner club bar around 1:07 a.m. and later texted a rid share driver
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who Olivia managed to track down. The ride share driver said around 1:45 Kaye had texted him requesting a
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ride from the Grub Truck, which is the local mac and cheese food truck to take her back home to 1122 King. and she had
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with her another female. Olivia then uncovered one of the most important leads in the case. The ride share driver
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told her about a camera mounted on the grub truck. So I was able to look it up and um find Kaye on the video and I saw
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the girl that she was with was Maddie. So at that point I knew Kaye and Maddie were together. They got into the car to
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go home together and alone. The driver told her the exact time Kaye and Maddie were dropped off at their house on King
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Road, 1:56 a.m. A timeline she says she confirmed before the police. I immediately took it to the police
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officers. Here's her phone information. Here's the ride share driver's name. Olivia says Kaye made a call to her
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boyfriend at 2:56 a.m., but he didn't answer. The Gonzalves believe Kaye fell asleep shortly after. According to the
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police affidavit, Kaye and Maddie were stabbed to death between 4 and 4:25 a.m. Just as they had done since they were
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little girls, they were sleeping in the same bed. Those two best friends since little
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girls, I don't think there's anything more terrifying than what they went through. I really don't.
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The killer took four lives in a matter of minutes, but he left behind two surviving roommates, one of whom would
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provide a key description of the intruder. He was dressed in black, muscular build, and very bushy eyebrows.
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[Music] If there is one picture that speaks to the Idaho student murders, it is this.
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Six smiling college students blissfully unaware of the carnage to come. It's staged in a way that is
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almost in a strange way ominously predicting. Investigative journalist Howard Bloom has written extensively on
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the student murders for Graden Carter's online magazine Air Mail. He is now writing a book on the case. On the ends
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of the picture are the two survivors. In the middle are are are the victims and they're huddled together.
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Kaye with a beaming Maddie on her shoulders. Friends for life. Ethan with his arm around Zana. Young love in full
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bloom. A moment that should have been a memory of their idyllic college years would eternally be a reminder of the
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gruesome murders that put them in their graves. What makes it so tragic is they're forever preserved in
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this moment. They'll never be able to leave this moment. Hours after this photo was taken, the
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four friends would be murdered. Their deaths so violent, even the house seemed to be bleeding. There was literally
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blood oozing out from the home. Uh you could see it on the exterior walls. CBS News consultant Brianna Fox is a former
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FBI agent and professor of criminology at the University of South Florida. That's how bloody and gruesome the crime
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scene is. According to the affidavit, which outlines law enforcement's investigation, the bodies of Zana and
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Ethan, who was sleeping over, were found in or near her bedroom on the second floor. The bodies of Kaye and Maddie
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were on the third floor in the same single bed in Mattiey's room. How did your daughter die in that house? What do
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you know? We know the autopsy. We know the means of what is officially how she died. She was assaulted and stabbed
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several several times. Her death certificate is the ugliest, disgusting piece of paper that you will ever see in
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your life. And every line is a horror show. Every line. Cuz there's causes of death and then there's contributions to
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death. Christy and Steve spoke to coroner Kathy Mbott before the gag order was issued
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and they say she told them how the two friends were positioned in the bed. The bed was up against the wall. The
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headboard was touching the wall and the left side of the bed was touching the wall and we believe that Maddie was on
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the outside and Kaye was on the inside. According to coroner Mbott, the killer's
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first victim was Maddie, says Steve. And then from Maddie, he moved on to your daughter. You believe she had awakened
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at that point? Yes. Yeah. There's evidence to show that she awakened and tried to get out of that situation. The
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way the bed was set up is what she was trapped. She was trapped. We know from the affidavit that Coberger's cell phone
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pinged in the vicinity of the house 12 times prior to the murders. Steve says before the gag order, one of the lead
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investigators told him they believe Coberger had been scouting out the house. You believe these visits were
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like he was like on an intelligence mission, a scouting mission, looking at lifestyle patterns, when they came and
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went, who came to the house? Yeah, he had to know when people were coming, people were going. It makes the Gonzalez
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wonder if he'd ever gone inside the house. I think that he at least had opened that door, went in, tested the
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waters, looked around. Steve says the coroner told him the killer's rampage started on the third floor where both
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Maddie and Kaye had their bedrooms. Christy thinks he wasn't expecting to find the two friends together in the
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same bed. I do think that his plan went ary. I do think that, you know, he intended to kill one and killed four.
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Brianna Fox also believes Zana and Ethan were collateral damage. According to the
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affidavit, Zana received a Door Dash food delivery at 400 a.m. then went back to her room on the second floor. It's
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possible, says Fox, that Zana, still awake, came face to face with the killer. And she sees somebody that she
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doesn't expect. And I don't think he was expecting to see her either. One of the
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two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortonson, later told the police that she heard what she thought was crying
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coming from Zana's room. She heard a male voice say something to the effect, "It's okay. I'm going to help you." Not
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something a killer would likely say to an intended target, says Fox. He probably was trying to make a
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split-second decision. Do I run away? Do I kill her? What do I do? And he decided
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to kill her. At approximately 4:17 a.m., police say an outside security camera less than 50 ft from Zana's room, picked
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up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. Shortly after, Dylan, the
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surviving roommate whose bedroom was near Zanna's, opened the door. According to the police affidavit, when Dylan
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opens the door, she saw a man dressed in black with a black mask and she says he
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has bushy eyebrows. Those bushy eyebrows become very important when the police are making their identification.
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The man with the bushy eyebrows kept walking to the rear of the house without harming Dylan. Why was Dylan not killed?
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Again, there is no definitive answer. He He didn't kill her because he didn't see
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her. He was sort of transfixed on getting out. He didn't kill her because he was satiated. Or he was simply too
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depleted to kill again, says Fox. Even stabbing somebody for a minute and a half. Not only is that overkill, but it
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actually would become rather exhausting. The police believe the murder weapon, which has not been found, was a
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militarystyle KBAR knife similar to this one. The details are disturbing. This is
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not a civilian knife. It was actually meant to tear apart bone, ligaments, organs. So this is a extremely brutal
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and something that you would never expect a person to walk in and want to commit unless they took some pleasure
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out of the brutality of it. After seeing the intruder, Dylan, the surviving roommate, told investigators she locked
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herself in her room. It would be almost 8 hours before 911 was called, causing an uproar on social media criticizing
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Dylan's alleged inaction. But Brianna Fox says it's not unusual for people to freeze or be too afraid to intervene.
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She had no reason to, you know, know how to handle herself in that moment. According to the affidavit, the male
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walked towards the backsliding glass door and presumably left the scene. But committing murder and getting away with
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it are two different things, says Fox. For an offender to get away with a crime, a murder, they have to bat a
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thousand. They have to be absolutely perfect. They make one singular mistake. That's all it takes.
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And that one possible mistake in this case may have been the sheath to the KBAR knife. One like this was found on
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the bed next to Mattie Mogan. It would lead investigators to the door of a man studying for a career in
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criminology. Brian Cobberger, the alleged killer. To see a timeline of the case,
00:21:35
go to 48 hours.com. [Music] [Music] Day after day and week after week pass and there is no suspect that is
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arrested. What was that time like for you? That was the worst. For 47 days after
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the murders, the families of Kaye, Maddie, Zana, and Ethan, and the country waited. We do not have a suspect at this
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time and wept and weighed in. The people of Idaho and those throughout our nation who
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provided information has been very impressive. We've received over 19,000 tips. Then on December 30th, 2022, Brian
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Cobberger was arrested in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. At the time, his attorney
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said Coberger looked forward to being exonerated. What goes through your mind when you see
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the face of the alleged killer? Oh, I wonder why. Who? Who is this? Why? You know, never heard of the person before.
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It still is confusing. Why? At this point, the families knew as much about Coberger as the public did. A PhD
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candidate studying criminology just 10 miles away at Washington State University in Pullman.
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I remember thinking, I only have a few minutes to look up this individual and to try to get any credible information
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before things start getting wonky. Some of Olivia Gonzalez's online discoveries of Coberger made her uneasy. He had made
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a few posts on Reddit in which he was conducting seems like a questionnaire to uh people in prison or jail who had
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committed crimes. How did you pick your victim or your target? For 7 weeks, the families and the country were left
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wondering. I think for this type of an investigation, 47 days is actually quick. Criminologist and CBS News
00:24:09
consultant Brianna Fox says the Moscow police kept things moving. Starting with a video canvas which
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produced footage from those early morning hours showing a white car making three
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passes by the girl's house starting around 3:30 a.m. Less than an hour later. Investigators say the killer struck.
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They noticed that this car approached King Road, left, came back, uh almost did a U-turn, finally went there around
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4:06 in the morning, and that car then departed in about 25 minutes and sped off.
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Multiple surveillance cameras then captured that white car as it traveled what appeared to be a less direct route
00:25:02
back to Pullman, Washington, arriving around 5:30 a.m. That information helped investigators identify the make and
00:25:13
model of the vehicle. And we're looking for a 2011 to a 2013 Hyundai Elantre. Washington State Police find the car
00:25:24
parked outside graduate housing. Uh they get the license plate and they get Brian
00:25:28
Coberger's name. They then get the driver's license and they see the bushy eyebrows that in the eyes of one of the
00:25:36
Moscow detectives must be the eyebrows of the killer. Now armed with a warrant, investigators retrieved cell tower data
00:25:45
from that morning, which captured Coberger's phone around 2:47 a.m. in Pullman when it suddenly stopped
00:25:53
connecting to the network. According to the affidavit, this was also around the time cameras caught a white Alantra
00:26:02
leaving his apartment complex. There was an indication that he turned off his cell phone, which is something that a
00:26:09
lot of people do when they want to avoid law enforcement knowing their whereabouts. His cell phone signal was
00:26:15
picked up again 2 hours later south of Moscow as it traveled back toward his apartment building. The affidavit
00:26:24
described a deeper dive into Coberger's phone history that revealed this was a familiar neighborhood to him going back
00:26:32
several months. Cell phone records indicated that he has traveled past and was very near the vicinity of this crime
00:26:40
scene on 12 separate occasions. And towers actually captured a 13th trip just hours after the murders.
00:26:49
Anecdotally, a lot of killers, they like revisiting the memory of the crime. You
00:26:54
know, I won. I was able to get away with this and you guys won't catch me. But they had one secret weapon to make their
00:27:01
case. They had the knife sheath and there was a microscopic spot of DNA on this. Could they tie this DNA to Coberg?
00:27:10
According to the affidavit, the DNA was found on the button snap of the sheath, but when investigators ran it through
00:27:17
the national database, there were no matches. It's unclear if Brian Coberger knew law enforcement was watching when
00:27:26
he left Washington in mid December. Coberger and his father, who had flown in from Pennsylvania, drove back home
00:27:33
together in his white elantra. Coberger, from what I've heard, tells the father that he's in trouble with his his job.
00:27:41
He's concerned enough about his son to want to make the drive back with him. On the 2500 mile journey from Washington,
00:27:49
they are stopped twice for traffic violations. Hello. What's also interesting is
00:27:56
Coberger's reaction to the police. Is this your car? Okay, cool. He's pretty calm and cool.
00:28:04
Father and son made it home to Alrightesville, Pennsylvania, where Bloom says investigators initiated a
00:28:11
stealth operation. What they did is they sent a team of Pennsylvania state troopers to Coberger's family's house.
00:28:20
Law enforcement recovered Coberger's father's DNA from the trash outside their home, which tested as a high
00:28:28
probability it was the biological father of whoever left DNA on the knife sheath.
00:28:35
So that was the Eureka moment which they decided they could get an arrest warrant. At that point, they made the
00:28:41
arrest of Brian Cobberger and they got a separate essentially search warrant for
00:28:45
his DNA. And when investigators compared his DNA to the DNA on the knife sheath,
00:28:51
they say it was a statistical match. At least 5.37 octillion times more likely to be Coberers than anyone else.
00:29:02
[Music] [Music] Where you sit today, are you certain that Brian Coberger is the killer with
00:29:18
what you know? I don't trust anybody or anything. So, I have to see it myself. I
00:29:23
have to see everything. As the months pass, Steve and Christy Gonzalez remain a united front in
00:29:31
wanting justice, but their weight has brought different perspectives. Your mind is still open to the potential of
00:29:38
course that it could have been someone else. Of course. Yep. I go into that 100%. Yep. Of course.
00:29:48
That's not where you are. No. No, that's fine. I don't think there's any slam dunk.
00:29:56
Criminologist Brianna Fox says with the gag order in place, any hint of Coberger's defense has come from court
00:30:03
documents. It seems that the defense is alleging there was a rush to judgement. Law enforcement made an arrest too fast
00:30:09
and they focused on their client too quickly. A defense filing did reveal Coberger's
00:30:16
alibi for the night of the murders. It simply stated Mr. Coberger was out driving alone. The defense is not
00:30:24
necessarily having to prove that he's innocent. They just have to raise doubt. Both Fox and Howard Bloom think the
00:30:31
defense can find ways to poke holes in the prosecution's case, challenging some of the key evidence presented in the
00:30:39
affidavit, including the cell phone location data and the white Elantra. There's other concerns such as whether
00:30:47
Brian Cobberger's car was accurately identified at the onset or if that was revised after knowing what Brian
00:30:53
Coberger drove. The cell phone data makes one suspicious of Coberger, but it's not
00:30:59
convincing. It's not putting someone at someone's doorstep. It's putting someone
00:31:05
in someone's neighborhood. If you can raise doubts about the validity and the accuracy of the
00:31:14
cell phone data, I think you're half way there to getting the case against Coberger. Either a hung jury or a
00:31:21
not-uilty verdict. And there's more. According to the defense, that there was no DNA or
00:31:30
forensic evidence found from the crime scene at the apartment, car, office, or on Brian Cobberger's person. So, they
00:31:39
were basically alleging how could he have committed such a brutal murder and yet have no evidence found on him of
00:31:46
that. After consulting their own investigators, Christy and Steve theorize that Coberger likely brought
00:31:53
what they call a kill kit with him. What do you mean by a kill kit? I think he had a backpack, change of clothes. We
00:32:01
don't know if it was covers, pants, hoodie. We don't know. A defense filing also claimed the
00:32:08
presence of other unidentified male DNA was found on the premises. Three separate and distinct male DNA profiles
00:32:18
were found from the crime scene. Two were inside the house. One was outside on a glove. The defense wants to know
00:32:25
who are these people and what role could they have played in this whole story. So
00:32:30
what the defense is doing now is trying to look for other narratives that make sense.
00:32:38
Howard Bloom has written extensively about this case, including a piece on a possible alternative defense theory
00:32:46
involving drugs. Maybe someone had renegged on a drug payment and this was a retribution of vengeance for people
00:32:54
not paying for drugs they had ordered. I want you guys to respond to one thing that's out there because speculation
00:33:01
that somehow drugs were involved in this attack. That's just Hollywood nonsense.
00:33:08
I I just dismiss that because I I understand our society wants to believe in some of these movies that they watch.
00:33:16
They don't have these crazy lives where they're crossing paths with people like that. That story line of it being drugs
00:33:24
gives people a reason to think why it happened because nobody knows why. And the reason I think it happened is
00:33:30
because he wanted to. That's what he wanted to do. He wanted to commit a murder. Brian Coberger's defense
00:33:36
attorneys argue there's a lack of evidence linking their client to the students. The defense is claiming that
00:33:43
the defendant, Brian Coberger, and the victims have absolutely no connection. There's no motive. In the minutes after
00:33:50
Brian Coberger was publicly named, the Gonzalez family went online. They just told us the name and we immediately
00:33:58
started googling. They believe they had found a possible connection through Instagram and
00:34:04
immediately took these screenshots. From our investigation of the account, it appeared to be the real Brian Cobberger
00:34:12
account. Among the people this account was following were Maddie Mogan and Kaylee
00:34:18
Gonzalez. in addition to several people with the name Coberger. But when we looked through those, it appeared to
00:34:25
have other family members that were related to him. At first, Steve, who works in it, was skeptical, thinking
00:34:34
someone created a fake account immediately following Coberger's arrest. But according to the family, they
00:34:41
uncovered more possible connections. You would go to Mattiey's Instagram account
00:34:47
and look at her pictures and he liked them. Brian's name was under a lot of Mattie's pictures like that picture and
00:34:54
that picture and that picture and that picture. So, he was actively looking at the Instagram
00:34:59
accounts and the importance of that is what just digital evidence that this particular account had some type of
00:35:06
connection with the with the victims. 48 hours has not confirmed the authenticity of this account, which has
00:35:14
since been deleted, and the gag order prevents investigators from [Music] commenting. After dedicating months
00:35:24
looking for their own answers, the Gonzalez say they are mentally prepared for trial, no matter when it begins. I
00:35:33
think he's done. He's going to feel all of us just staring at the back of his head. And
00:35:39
he's going to know that we are the Gonzalis family. And he knows what he did to our daughter.
00:35:55
[Music] How could this happen to a group of kids that are doing everything the way
00:36:09
they're supposed to do? To not known is what keeps you awake at night. And it's every day, all day. It
00:36:20
never stops. Why? Why? Why? There is no why. It is as unexplainable today as it was
00:36:28
the day Kaylee Gonzalez, Maddie Mogan, Zana Kernodal, and Ethan Chapen were murdered.
00:36:36
I wish I wish we knew. They were all four of them were just such great people and made such an impact on the lives
00:36:47
around them. For now, the families are left with thoughts of what might have been.
00:36:58
Kaylee Jade Gonzalez has been recommended to receive aostumous bachelor's degree. Her family will
00:37:06
receive the diploma of the University of Idaho. On May 13th, 2023, exactly 6 months from
00:37:16
the day of the murders, an occasion that would have been a cause for celebration,
00:37:21
graduation was instead another reminder of what was lost. Seeing all those graduation photos, it
00:37:30
just they should be here. Graduation is just one of many milestones that will be missed.
00:37:41
She would have been my maid of honor and I probably would have been hers and it's
00:37:45
like sad to have to go through those life moments without her. Jasmine Kernodal planned to work side by
00:37:55
side with her sister Zana creating their own marketing business. It's just not the same without her
00:38:02
because she just brought like such a crazy different energy than anybody else I've ever met.
00:38:10
Kaylee Gonzalez's future was in sight. She had accepted a job in Austin working for an IT firm. Kaye not only pushed
00:38:19
herself, say her parents, but pushed them. We lost that person that would force us to make new memories and force
00:38:27
us to go and take on something that seems a little daunting at first. One of you guys, guys. For the Gonalves, amid
00:38:35
all the loss, there was an addition to the family. when in February Olivia gave birth to a baby girl. So her name is
00:38:44
Theodora Maddie K. Obviously Mattie Kay is after Maddie and Kaye. And if one were to believe in
00:38:52
signs, there were says Olivia several with Theodora Matt Kay's arrival. In the hospital, her room number
00:39:01
1113 was the same as the date of the murders, November 13th. and eerily the time of birth 4:21 a.m.
00:39:12
is in the time frame that Kaye and Maddie are believed to have been killed. To have birth and life and firsts, first
00:39:22
giggles, first walks that they would be there somehow, you know, even if it's just a namesake.
00:39:31
This is the Gonzalez family. Maddie has truly been a blessing in our lives. I'm Zana's sister. The families of Kaye,
00:39:39
Maddie, Zana, and Ethan have all searched for ways, sometimes together, to cope with a horrible new normal, and
00:39:49
we all are always going to be there for each other, and it's just difficult. We all We're all going through it in our
00:39:56
own ways. For Ethan's parents, Stacy and Jim Chapen, one way of coping involves creating a foundation. Ethan's smile.
00:40:06
Ethan just had a great smile. I mean, he smiled all the time. Raising money for scholarships by selling tulips planted
00:40:14
in honor of Ethan, who had worked at a tulip farm. So, Ethan will live on through the foundation. That's what
00:40:22
motivates us to to do this. How do you live with this, Jeff? It's not [Music] easy. Just got to keep going, you know?
00:40:36
I think just like living our lives like Zana would want us to. I know that she would want us to talk about the life
00:40:43
that she lived and to be her voice right now. She had a beautiful smile. Her and
00:40:51
Maddie, the memories that we shared, we don't do it lightly because they are very private memories and sometimes it
00:40:59
feels like I'm giving away a part of them. But I do it for the importance to realize how great of a loss it
00:41:09
is because nothing's going to bring them back. [Music] CBS next Saturday. 48 Hours brings you
00:41:43
backtoback episodes all summer long. Next week, Beachside Homicide. How could a single mom be executed in Cape Cod? I
00:41:51
was knocked unconscious. I couldn't protect her. 48 hours prime time double feature next
00:41:56
Saturday on CBS and streaming on Paramount [Music] Plus. Welcome to Postmortem, a new
00:42:16
companion podcast to 48 hours. So, I'm your host, CBS News correspondent Ann Marie Green, and each week, we will take
00:42:24
you behind the scenes with correspondents and producers who know these stories best. We go deeper into
00:42:32
each episode, explaining how the reporting came together and their personal experiences with investigating
00:42:39
these crimes. Now, not only do I report for 48 hours, but I am personally a huge
00:42:45
fan of the show. So, I'm really excited to take a closer look at these cases with the 48 Hours team to hear their
00:42:52
stories, including, you know, brand new details. And we're talking about details
00:42:56
that never made it into the episodes. We're going to start though by answering some of your biggest questions about the
00:43:04
Idaho student murders. This is a case that captivated and continues to captivate the country. And joining me
00:43:11
now is longtime 48 hours correspondent Peter Vans and producer Liza Finley. Welcome guys. So good to have you guys
00:43:20
here. Thanks Amarie. We're very happy to be here. Yeah, this postmortem is is something we dream about because so we
00:43:27
have so much information particularly on this story that we can't get to in the limited time. So, this is a wonderful
00:43:33
opportunity to expand and and share with our our our viewers and listeners in this case uh some new details. Before we
00:43:41
get to our postmortem, let's listen to an overview of this week's episode. It's been a long and painful journey for
00:43:49
the families of Kaylee Gonzalez, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodal, and Ethan Chapen,
00:43:56
the four University of Idaho students who were stabbed to death in the pre-dawn hours of November 13th, 2022.
00:44:04
Do you ever dream of your sister? Yeah, I've had some dreams of her. Just gives me some peace knowing
00:44:12
that I know she's okay. Zana Kernodal's sister Jasmine and father Jeffrey are speaking out for the
00:44:19
first time since Santa's murder. It just happened. You know what do you do? You can't do a damn thing.
00:44:28
Everybody's going to work and you look out the window and there's kids running down the street laughing and you're just
00:44:33
like, "How can you be out there playing? My daughter is dead." On the night of the murders, Christy and
00:44:40
Steve Gonzalez's daughter, Kaye, was in the same bed as her childhood friend, Maddie Mogan. The Gonzaleves say coroner
00:44:48
Kathy Mbott told them before a gag order the killer attacked Maddie first, then moved on to Kaye. There's evidence to
00:44:57
show that she awakened and tried to get out of that situation. The way the bed was set up is what she was trapped. She
00:45:05
was trapped. A judge has entered a plea of not guilty on Brian Coberger's behalf.
00:45:13
The murders of college students Ethan Chapen, Madison Mogan, Zana Kernodal, and Kaylee
00:45:20
Gonzalez shocked the country in November of 2022 and really captured the attention of the country. I think part
00:45:28
of it had to do with how that this is a time in your life that is supposed to be
00:45:34
one of the best times in your life and every photo that you saw of them was bursting with
00:45:43
life. So the idea that those lives were cut short I think really shook a lot of people.
00:45:53
This is such a deeply personal story. uh perhaps the most that I've ever been involved with. I'm a father of six. Six
00:46:00
who have all gone to university. I attended Washington State University 8 miles from where this murder scene was
00:46:08
located. And when I went to school there, the idea of crime might be a kid stealing a candy bar from a store. It
00:46:14
was just simply unheard of. So, it's deeply personal. and and to connect with with the family, the Gonzalez's Christy
00:46:22
and Steve, and to speak with Jasmine and Jeffrey Kernodal. Jasmine is Zana's sister, and Jeffrey her dad was the most
00:46:31
profound interviews I think I I have ever done. And Liza was was in on this. We were all so moved. It was so
00:46:39
emotional. It really was. You know, genuinely had tears in my eyes at times. And as I watched this hour for the
00:46:47
eighth time, I still get tears in my eyes cuz it's the sense of loss is profound and it is felt all over the
00:46:54
world. And you're right, Anmarie, this time of innocence, the adventure of learning, the deep friendships formed at
00:47:02
university. And to see it interrupted like this allegedly by a person they still don't have a motive for um just
00:47:11
shocked everyone. The consolidates, they moved to the general area because they wanted a safe place to raise their kids.
00:47:17
Yeah. They It's talk about ironic. They lived in California. It was getting kind
00:47:23
of dangerous there. They felt they have five children. So, they went on a road trip and we were going to find America's
00:47:29
best place to live, the safest place to raise our family. And they settle on this beautiful, beautiful little town in
00:47:36
Idaho. And lo and behold, just few hours away by car where where Kaye went to school, the worst crime imaginable
00:47:46
happened. And they regret moving. You know, they go, "If only we hadn't moved." There's also something else I
00:47:55
wanted to mention at this point that the Gonzalez shared with us that we weren't
00:47:59
able to to get into our broadcast. Their daughter Kaylee uh Gonzalez uh was a true crime fanatic. She watched
00:48:08
all these shows. She loved watching 48 hours and she was she was concerned enough about crime that she would take
00:48:17
notes. Her her mom said during the broadcast and she came up with a plan of action. Hey, if any of us are ever
00:48:25
assaulted, if we're ever in a crime situation like we've seen on 48 hours in these other shows, this is what we
00:48:31
should do. She actually typed it out. And the family had a nickname for her. They called her the protector because of
00:48:38
this. And I talked to Christy about it. Can you imagine the horror when the worst possible nightmare, in this case
00:48:48
it's not a cliche, is occurring. her best friend in life, Maddie, killed alongside her and now the asalent is
00:48:57
attacking her. You know what? One of the ironies though, which you were talking about her philosophy after being such a
00:49:04
true crime show fanatic was separate. I'll go you right, you go left, so one of us will survive and be
00:49:15
able to call the police and come to your rescue. Well, those two young women were
00:49:20
killed in the same bed. They didn't have a chance to separate. She was trapped. Kaylee was trapped.
00:49:29
There are so many components of this that sort of give you chills. Um, you focus on the families, which cannot be
00:49:37
easy. I can't imagine it was easy to get them to talk. We have a uh a a great um
00:49:44
colleague out in California named Greg Fiser who had uh established a relationship with the family when we did
00:49:51
our first hour uh earlier in in 2023. I did a a Zoom interview with Steve Gonzalez and I felt as though we had
00:50:00
really connected. You know, they said, "Okay, you've got five minutes." cuz he was going from reporter to reporter and
00:50:06
we really connected and we talked for 25 minutes and and when that story ran uh we understood that the family
00:50:16
appreciated how respectful we were. There was no sensationalism. This is 48 hours. This is CBS News. And that
00:50:23
connection continued. And so Greg Fischer was talking with with the family out there and said, "Peter would really
00:50:29
like to sit down and have a longer conversation with you." And because and Liza is really strong on on this, they
00:50:37
believe that transparency and getting these words out is important for them to find justice, they agreed to the
00:50:43
interview. Mhm. There's a gag order. Mhm. And that was issued by the judge and it basically uh prohibits attorneys,
00:50:52
law enforcement, officials from speaking. So Steve feels very strongly that that is not in the best interest of
00:51:00
justice because there have been so many rumors, so much false information out there that he believes that real
00:51:09
journalists, real officials should be dispelling these these false falsities. So he he agreed to this very
00:51:18
long interview, six, seven hours. Yeah, I heard Peter is legendary for his long interviews. He is famous for that in our
00:51:26
shop. We're going to go two more hours on this. Um, but it was great. It was they were extraordinary. And once you
00:51:34
know people families, everyone has to remember this. Families that have gone through this
00:51:40
this kind of shocking trauma. They don't interview one another, right? That's not
00:51:45
the way we talk. All of us have lost someone in our families. when that's happened in in my case, I don't
00:51:51
interview my sisters about how you're feeling in things. And so sometimes when when a person like myself comes into the
00:51:58
picture, it's such a catharsis for them. There's so much they want to say. What I
00:52:04
valued about it is their willingness to pull us into this moment in their life, which is the most painful moment that
00:52:13
they will ever experience. And it's going it's going it's not a moment, it's their life now. Um, but we often, you
00:52:19
know, sometimes when we tell these stories and 48 hours is an excellent job at being compassionate and fair, but it
00:52:25
is an hour and a whole case and we don't sort of get a chance to slow down and be
00:52:32
reminded of the human victims that are still alive. Zanna's sister Jasmine has never spoken before. Um, her father
00:52:42
Jeffrey never spoken before. Um, and in this case, you you didn't pre-in them. You didn't get a chance to talk to them
00:52:48
ahead of time. No, not not at all. Not with the Gonzalez's either. But, you know, I prefer I prefer that. I prefer
00:52:54
that we get to know each other in the course of this interview. You always begin very gently. You talk about the
00:53:00
the the sister that she loved, the daughter that he loved, and you work your way into the details. And I find
00:53:07
when we both are trying to sort each other out, if you can make that connection, it becomes a a profound
00:53:15
thing and they really open up. Jasmine Kernodal. Oh, Santa Z's sister. Amazing. She's just it gets me talking to right
00:53:24
now about it. She's the power of the grief inside her to be able to express some of that. And Jeffrey in in the what
00:53:32
you saw in the in the hour and and you'll see him in other uh interviews in the future too. He physically reacts
00:53:40
sometimes his body movement is even more powerful than his words. When I you know
00:53:46
when you talk about you know when they heard the words from police that their their his daughter her sister that she
00:53:55
was dead. Oh my god how it hits him. And that was such genuine so genu um when I
00:54:02
was getting ready to watch the hour I was sort of preparing myself for grief. I thought I will be so saddened by this.
00:54:12
But instead I found myself impressed with their strength, their power. There was sort of a
00:54:21
weight to that grief. Does that make any sense? Absolutely. Absolutely. it becomes, you know, for
00:54:28
for for those of us who work on these stories, uh we do so many of them and they're all so horrendous and there are
00:54:36
those moments where you're sitting across from somebody or looking at them in the edit room and you go, how real
00:54:43
this is and that was so real. These these families, you know, it's it's it's heartbreaking. the Gonzalez, you know,
00:54:54
it's as loving a family as you will ever meet. And right away, they they started
00:55:00
digging in. And as Steve has said, we were not going to sit back and just wait for justice. And when you realize what
00:55:07
his daughter Olivia accomplished in her deep dive, which we'll get into, but they they moved ahead instantly. They
00:55:16
channeled that grief into action. So, let's talk about a little bit the incredible amount of investigating that
00:55:21
the families did, especially uh Kayle's sister, Olivia. Uh she found the ride share driver who dropped Kaye off at the
00:55:28
home that night, something that she says even law enforcement had not discovered.
00:55:33
I want to play a little sound. Olivia got into her sister's call log and frantically started cold calling recent
00:55:41
numbers. She says a friend told her that Kaye had been at the corner club bar around 1:07 a.m. and later texted a rid
00:55:50
share driver who Olivia managed to track down. The ride share driver said around
00:55:57
1:45 Kaye had texted him requesting a ride from the Grub Truck, which is the local mac and cheese food truck to take
00:56:05
her back home to 1122 King. and she had with her another female. Olivia then uncovered one of the most important
00:56:14
leads in the case. The ride share driver told her about a camera mounted on the grub truck. So I was able to look it up
00:56:23
and um find Kaye on the video and I saw the girl that she was with was Maddie. So at that point I knew Kaylee and
00:56:30
Maddie were together. They got into the car to go home together and alone. The driver told her the exact time Kaye and
00:56:38
Maddie were dropped off at their house on King Road, 1:56 a.m. A timeline she says she confirmed before the police. I
00:56:49
immediately took it to the police officers. Here's her phone information. Here's the ride share driver's name. You
00:56:58
know what's interesting about that right there is that a the police had the wrong
00:57:05
time when they returned home. They by 11 minutes. So she was able to put that timeline on track which which is sort of
00:57:14
you know a domino effect. They get the right time they get home they get this they get that they get that. And she was
00:57:21
able to correct that right off the bat which got them mobilized and moving in the right direction. There is still so
00:57:27
much to get into here. So, when we get back, we're going to talk about Brian Coberger's trial, what the defense might
00:57:33
say to poke holes in the case, new evidence the prosecution might present, and a possible link. Yeah, a link
00:57:40
between Coberger and the victims that the Gonzalez think that they've discovered on Instagram. Stick
00:57:47
[Music] around. All [Music] right, welcome back everyone. The trial of Brian Coberger had been set for
00:58:02
October 2nd of 2023, but it was postponed because he waved his right to a speedy trial. So, the question is,
00:58:10
what do we think we can expect once this kicks off? Liza, as we know, there's a der of information because of this gag
00:58:17
order, but the defense has hinted at what its case will be. In a court filing, they have come out and saying
00:58:24
essentially what they're going to challenge in in the prosecution's case. They're going to challenge one, the
00:58:31
collection of the DNA. There were uh three male other DNA samples found at the scene. two inside
00:58:41
the house, one in glove outside. They still don't know who those belong to. And the defense wants to know why. They
00:58:48
say there's no connection, none at all, between Cobberger and any of the four victims in that house. And if there's no
00:58:56
connection, there's no motive, why would he have done something like this? And then to me, one of the most intriguing
00:59:04
ones, if it's true, we don't know any of this because we don't it hasn't been litigated in in in ch hasn't been argued
00:59:11
in in court. They claim that there's absolutely now, mind you, this is one of the bloodiest crime scenes ever. I mean,
00:59:21
four people slaughtered with with a a military style. We saw the blood on side of the house. And it's I know you
00:59:29
probably went back and forth as to whether or not you should show that, but I think it really sort of gave you an
00:59:33
idea of of what went on in Yeah. And the and the family told us they want the world to know the and this is the word
00:59:40
they use, the ferocity of these murders. It's important uh the savagery that went
00:59:47
went into this, right? And as Peter said, that house was literally bleeding. If the house could talk, what would it
00:59:54
say? That's a wonderful question. But so back to this intriguing uh statement that the defense has put out there. They
01:00:02
say there's this bloody crime scene. We know how easily it is to get a hair or a
01:00:07
speck of blood. They say there's absolutely no DNA evidence of anyone from that house or that house in his
01:00:15
apartment, in his car, on his person. And if that's true, that is pretty intriguing. Mhm. So, let's talk
01:00:23
about a receipt from Walmart and a Dickiy's tag that was found at his apartment, though we don't know what
01:00:30
items were listed on the receipt. What does the Gonzalez family think this discovery really means? The family has a
01:00:37
has a u a theory. They believe that that he brought what what they call a kill kit. That he had a bag that had a change
01:00:45
of clothes in it. That's what they're calling it. What what they're calling it. And they said that um and we did do
01:00:50
not have this in did not have time for this in the hour, but that during the the course of the search warrant that
01:00:56
was done at Coberger's house, they have a receipt and that the receipt according
01:01:02
to the Gonzalez family is in evidence right now. And it may suggest that he bought a clothing that perhaps that he
01:01:10
wore during the course of this murder is what they're suggesting. and that that clothing was not found at his apartment
01:01:16
after when when the search was done. Um, but even so, as Liza said, cuz we have done so many of these stories, the
01:01:26
notion, you know, when you're using a knife, for instance, and there's called Castaway Blood, you know, as you raise
01:01:32
it up and then back down, the hair, skin, blood, the notion that nothing at all was found in that car, nothing at
01:01:42
all, is is really quite extraordinary. And they will, the defense is going to be playing that up. And remember they
01:01:50
say about his alibi for that night, Brian Coberger's. Yeah. He admits he was out driving late that night. He was
01:01:56
driving around. That's what he says. Mhm. That would explain the the cell phone in the vicinity and also seeing
01:02:04
that car on the, you know, surveillance cameras. Mhm. And among the things, of course, they're going to talk about in
01:02:10
in the prosecution of this case was the 12 visits prior to the murders in that neighborhood, but also there was a 13th
01:02:18
visit the day of the murder once it became publicized because this occurred, you know, in the early early morning
01:02:24
hours. Well, later that day, prosecutors say that Coberger's according to the affidavit, his car was in that area
01:02:31
again. But remember, he's studying criminology. And I'm sure he their people would argue yes, he was
01:02:37
fascinated by this horrible crime and as a criminologist uh he he drove over as many people did
01:02:45
into that area to see what was going on. But then there's always the theory that
01:02:49
the criminal returns to the scene of the crime because they want to see what's going on and they want to sort of get
01:02:55
the last laugh. Haha, I got away with this. Look at everybody running around. Look at everybody. Right. Yeah. Well,
01:03:02
one theory that is out there that the Gonzalez family has come to believe is the notion that Brian Coberger may have
01:03:10
been inside that house prior to the day of the murders. And they base that on the fact that the coroner in the case
01:03:19
told them that the asalent entered the house and the first people that were attacked were on the third floor of the
01:03:27
house. There were others on the second floor. And that suggested to the Gonzalez that the killer knew to go to
01:03:34
the third floor. How would he know that if he hadn't been in the house before? So this is the family's filling in the
01:03:42
blanks though. This is some information. They're trying to explain it, right? That is what that we have not had any
01:03:49
investigator tell us this. Of course, there's this gag order and we have not been able to verify that with any
01:03:55
investigator because of the gag order. But the Gonzalez's uh mom and dad, Christy and Steve, believe that he may
01:04:04
have been in that house prior to the murders. When you really think about this whole thing, how does this person
01:04:13
in this house that has three floors know where to go and how to do it and kill so
01:04:18
so rapidly? As one of our people said, he's a student. He's not an assassin, right? But it seemed like he was so
01:04:25
efficient, which is, I think, one of the reasons why the Consolves believe he had
01:04:31
to know where he was going when he got in there. He had to know who he was after and what he planned to do. Mhm.
01:04:37
Now, Christy Gonzalez says she thinks he went in to kill one, but he killed four.
01:04:45
So, that he was caught off guard by the fact that there were two people in the first bedroom. Exactly. And there was
01:04:52
also the bit about Kayle's dog, right? Uh Kaylee slept with that dog every night. Uh and uh that was just that was
01:04:59
their routine. And when officials uh got to the house uh discovered the uh that horrible scene. The dog was in a
01:05:08
separate bedroom by its cell. And so that was just that just raised questions with the Gonzalez that um did he know
01:05:17
there was a dog? Had he seen a dog in a visit? Had he actually even maybe given the dog a treat where it wouldn't bark
01:05:26
at him? And did he put the dog in that room? It's just something that the Gonzalez uh have focused on and raised
01:05:36
with us. So, we've been talking a lot about the different theories about how Kobberger may have committed these
01:05:41
murders, but what is also new in this hour is the Gonzalez discovered what they think is a possible connection
01:05:49
between him and the victims. So, the the the the Gonzalez family heard the name Brian Coberger. Olivia Googles his name
01:06:00
and they end up finding this Instagram account that the family uh believes was a genuine one. I want to play a little
01:06:07
sound from the hour about the connection that the family feels might be there. You would go to Mattie's Instagram
01:06:15
account and look at her pictures and he liked them. Brian's name was under a lot
01:06:21
of Mattie's pictures like that picture and that picture and that picture and that picture. So he was
01:06:26
actively looking at the Instagram account and the importance of that is what just digital evidence that this
01:06:33
particular account had some type of connection with the with the victims. And if that's true that's huge because
01:06:40
what it does is it establishes a relationship a connection between Kobar and the victims at least two of the
01:06:49
victims. and the defense is saying there's no connection. So, which is true. That will
01:06:57
be a very important point to be made at trial. As has been said by one of our experts in the hour, if there's no
01:07:03
connection, there's no motive. Everyone who watches 48 hours who's listening to this right now knows you don't have to
01:07:09
have a motive. Prosecutors will tell you all the time you don't have to. And serial killers, you know, Ted Bundy
01:07:15
didn't have to have a motive for each of his killings. he just had a satisfaction
01:07:19
in in killing someone. And the Gonzalez believe that that uh Coberger, who again
01:07:26
is accused of this, not convicted of anything as as yet of course that he did this in their opinion simply to kill, to
01:07:34
murder, to experience that rush. Mhm. They do it for pleasure. That's one one of the theories by our
01:07:43
criminologist expert who said that a crime like this seems to be done by somebody the viciousness of it uh by
01:07:53
somebody who takes pleasure in it um or has a sense of arousal from it. Mhm. Did
01:07:58
you reach out to the Coberger family? Yes, we've done that many times and um we're still hoping that they will change
01:08:05
their mind and and talk about Brian. Um, and we hope that happens. What I'm hearing, uh, is that the Kobberger
01:08:15
family does not believe he did it. But there there is something very very interesting that Steve Gonzalez, uh, was
01:08:22
very clear about that he's going into this trial with an open mind that he he thinks they think that it looks like
01:08:33
Coberger did it. However, maybe he didn't. and they have uh an open mind about that. Well, Steve has an open mind
01:08:41
about that. I was surprised by that because that is typically not something that you hear. Um is after someone's
01:08:49
been arrested, usually families of the victims are convinced usually that you know that's the right guy. Yeah. Yeah.
01:08:58
And uh he has an open mind and we as journalists also have to have an open mind. Yeah. uh because the the facts of
01:09:06
the case are being held so tightly so closely there's a lot we don't know and we have to remember that and uh that's
01:09:16
another that was another challenge in doing this hour I think right Peter yeah and uh absolutely and Coberger has said
01:09:22
through an attorney when he was arrested in Pennsylvania he looks forward to his
01:09:26
exoneration there were others though that you reached out to that also didn't want to talk uh Mattie Mogan's family
01:09:32
her parents They did not speak to you for this episode. Mattie Mogan. Um Maddie was a only child of of of her
01:09:42
parents and the they have spoken of course at these memorial uh gettogethers and things, but it is so
01:09:50
devastating. And you look at her face, you look at Mattie's face, and you see this this bright and she's intelligent,
01:09:59
this big-hearted woman with everything in front of her. uh and they invested everything and all their love and wisdom
01:10:07
in this one child and that child is taken from them under these circumstances. Um we understand Mhm.
01:10:14
Ethan Chapen's family um who obviously are suffering enormous loss. They have chosen to to not do an interview with uh
01:10:25
48 hours for this. Perhaps one day, you know, they'll want to talk, but we completely understand uh that they don't
01:10:32
want to. and and of course we respect that. Well, what a moving episode for the first one of this season of 48 hours and
01:10:41
for the first postmortem podcast. I really want to thank you Peter and Liza for being here. Thank you Anmarie. It's
01:10:49
our honor to tell this story. It's so profound. Absolutely. It is. It's touched all of us. Thank you Marie. Be
01:10:57
sure to join us next Tuesday for another postmortem. Watch 48 hours Saturdays 10:9 central on CBS and also streaming
01:11:05
on Paramount Plus. And be sure to follow 48 hours wherever you get your podcast.
01:11:10
You can also listen adree on the Amazon Music or Wonder app. [Music]