00:00:20
As a career detective, this case is very unique. Little did I know that this would lead
00:00:26
to one of the most fascinating cold case homicides that I'd ever been a part of.
00:00:32
How did this case begin for you? So, on December 3rd of 2017, the Sheriff's Department received a 911
00:00:41
call from a homeowner reporting that their family dog brought back a human skull.
00:00:49
It came back with a human skull. Yes. And it had an obvious gunshot wound to the
00:00:57
back of the head. We kind of organized a grid search and within minutes located the clandestine grave right off in this
00:01:07
area. So, Peter, this is the area right up here. Sure. I'll follow you. Now, this is quite a thicket, isn't it?
00:01:17
It's a little thicket. If you see this little indentation in the soil right here, that's where the
00:01:24
skeletal remains were found. We had a very circumstantial case. We literally have human bones, human
00:01:31
remains, uh with a gunshot wound to the head, and at that point, is this a murder? Is this
00:01:37
a suicide? We have a model of a human skull. Can you show us where that wound was? It's pretty much uh towards the
00:01:45
back rear of the skull. When you look at these scattered bones, are they telling you a story?
00:01:52
Yes, it tells me that it's most likely the story of murder. We were reviewing missing persons cases
00:01:59
throughout the Midwest, but nothing was definitive to who this victim was. When the cases come to the DNA Doe
00:02:11
Project, everything's already been exhausted. Genetic genealogy is the last resort.
00:02:16
So, we use the DNA to look at the matches, and we can build family trees that way and figure out the identities
00:02:24
of people. In this case, that person is Gary Albert Herpst. The victim, Gary, was from Scott County,
00:02:35
Minnesota. We located the home where Gary had last lived. Some of the neighbors who still lived in
00:02:45
the neighborhood had reported some remembering some activity uh back in 2013 that they found
00:02:53
suspicious. It's pouring down rain. It's probably 11:30 at night. It's pitch black dark.
00:03:02
Something catches your eye across at the Herpst house. Chad, what do you see? I see the neighbors scrubbing the floors.
00:03:09
I see them scrubbing the walls. We saw them bringing out black garbage bags. They eventually brought out a
00:03:15
rolled-up carpet. I didn't know what I was looking at. I had no idea. And I turned to Chad, and I was like,
00:03:25
"What is going on?" And Chad looked at me, and he said, "Kaya, I think they finally killed him."
00:04:22
It was in June of 2020 when Linda Dane learned the disturbing circumstances of how her long-lost brother Gary's skull
00:04:31
had been found by a dog in rural Barron County, Wisconsin. Yeah, it's kind of a eerie type thing to think of,
00:04:41
but it still led to finding out what happened, the truth. Linda says Gary, who was 57 when he went
00:04:49
missing, was a loner with a difficult personality who rarely saw his own extended family, which is why pictures
00:04:57
that exist of him are from his younger years, seen here with his wife, Connie. He could be stubborn. He could be
00:05:05
crabby. It had been years since Linda and Gary had spoken, and in 2013, she learned from Connie that he had
00:05:13
vanished, walking out on her and their son, Austin, seen here as a teenager. What did you think of that?
00:05:20
>> I was shocked. I I didn't know what to think. Linda says she found it strange
00:05:25
that Connie had not reported his disappearance to police. And it's like, "Okay. Uh did you file a missing
00:05:32
person's report? Did you report it? Did you do anything?" And they did nothing. What was her reason for not reporting
00:05:38
that her husband was missing? She didn't give us a reason. At Linda and her family's urging, Connie
00:05:44
filed this missing person's report with the Elko New Market Police Department in
00:05:48
Minnesota, where the Herpsts lived. In the report, Connie said Gary grabbed a suitcase and left in an older gray
00:05:57
Honda vehicle, but she claimed she did not get a look at who was driving. Six years would pass before an
00:06:06
investigative genetic genealogist, Robin Espinson, would be able to construct a family tree that led to identifying the
00:06:15
skull. We knew that we had found the identity of our Doe as Gary Albert Herpst. Gary Herpst was originally born in North
00:06:26
Central Wisconsin. We located family members of his in South Central Minnesota. That's when Detective Jeff Nelson from
00:06:35
the Barron County Sheriff's Office tracked down Austin and Connie at the retirement community where they both
00:06:41
worked. I think it was a little bit of a of a surprise to them because we actually found out that both Connie
00:06:47
Herpst and her son, Austin, worked at a nursing home. We basically walked in unannounced and
00:06:54
met with both Connie and Austin. When you told Connie that you had found her missing husband, likely had found
00:07:03
him, was she excited about the news, or was she stoic about it? Both of them were very stoic.
00:07:08
Never never even commented, "Well, at least we we know it's him." Uh it it's like it it they just glossed
00:07:16
over it. Brent Peterson, a special agent with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, joined Jeff Nelson to
00:07:25
interview Connie. She was not uncooperative. She was just trying to be helpful. Um
00:07:30
at least that was the appearance. Did you get into the issue about why she didn't report her husband
00:07:36
uh as being missing? Yeah, that that was um a red flag from the beginning. Here's
00:07:41
Connie's answer about why she didn't report it. Oh, okay. >> He just left on his own. I said I didn't
00:07:47
think I had to. Connie told investigators she wasn't surprised Gary walked out on them because he had a
00:07:54
troubled lifestyle. She described Gary as a drug user. He would use drugs and spend all their money. He just was
00:08:03
described to us as just being a generally kind of a volatile, angry, unpleasant person. How was he with
00:08:10
Austin? Um Austin till the age of 10, great. But at the age of 10, when Gary would start his
00:08:19
yelling and screaming at me, Yeah. Austin would step in between. Okay. >> "Don't you yell at my mom."
00:08:26
Did he ever hit you in the 30-plus years you guys were married? Once or twice. Yeah.
00:08:33
One time he hit me pretty hard and black and blue in my shoulder. The other time he actually hit me, he
00:08:39
pushed me and broke my toe. In his interview, Austin told investigators his father had become
00:08:45
enraged the day he left, and later learned he had stolen $5,000 in cash and his mother's wedding ring. I heard him
00:08:55
banging around in the master bedroom. I'm like, "Okay, what's going on?" Looked in, he was packing a suitcase.
00:09:01
He's like, "I'm leaving." And yeah, he got in, some guy pulled up, picked him up. Connie told investigators she was at
00:09:08
the library that day and remembered getting a frantic call from her son. He was, "Dad left. Dad left. He got in a
00:09:16
vehicle with somebody." Investigators soon realized that Connie may have lied to them. Why? Because in
00:09:25
her missing person's report, Connie had said she was home when Gary walked out. We're suspicious of their stories right
00:09:33
away. So, there's a lot of things that didn't match up. Connie added to investigators' suspicions when she gave
00:09:40
yet another new detail. The .40 caliber gun was gone. And that was my Connie had never mentioned Gary had
00:09:50
stolen her gun when she first reported him missing. So, there's a lot of oddities that she's
00:09:55
telling Had she said something in your mind that was particularly incriminating?
00:10:00
I wouldn't say incriminating, but I strongly felt she had certainly knowledge of his murder. I
00:10:09
figured she had some form of involvement. So, investigators redoubled their efforts to try to learn more. So,
00:10:17
there's a lot of working pieces going on. Several months passed before investigators were ready to interview
00:10:23
Connie and Austin a second time. This time, they dug deeper into Connie's claims of abuse.
00:10:31
So, I you know, your mom talked of some abuse issues in the family. Uh uh I knew you were very protective of her.
00:10:41
Yeah. Can you elaborate? I we understand that. But, it was more the fact that I hated when he would sit
00:10:46
there and yell at her and it would upset her. And the more investigators questioned
00:10:51
Austin, the more he began to blame his father for his own demise. Yeah, he was an angry guy and stuff, but I never
00:10:58
expected that it'd get to the point that someone would want to kill him. Directing attention toward a mysterious
00:11:04
man with tattoos, he says his father drove away with. Do you remember a guy with a black shirt, tattoos?
00:11:12
That's about it. That's as far as I can get and then I got a really uneasy sense
00:11:15
about it. That was it. Gary Herps went missing in 2013. A dog found his skull in 2017.
00:11:36
And by June of 2020, investigators suspected his own family, his wife Connie and son Austin Herps, were
00:11:44
somehow involved in Gary's disappearance and murder. There's some some follow-up
00:11:51
questions and information we we need to gather to try to piece all this together.
00:11:56
And during their second interview, they consented to a polygraph. The investigators from Wisconsin had
00:12:03
arranged with the FBI. They both agreed to take polygraphs. Lie detector tests are generally not admissible in court,
00:12:11
but investigators will use them as a tool to judge an individual's credibility. What were the results? Connie did not
00:12:20
show any signs of deception, but Austin did. An investigator from the FBI confronted Austin. So,
00:12:28
I'm I'm very convinced that you clearly know what happened. I don't. I'm telling you Austin,
00:12:34
you can't walk away here saying you don't know anything because you clearly know something.
00:12:43
No. Whatever it is, you got to tell me. I suspected that the guy in the truck wasn't exactly
00:12:50
friendly. I just the look I got from him was a little sketchy. Either you're involved with your mom
00:12:55
in killing your father or you're involved with someone else in killing your father. I'm not involved with it.
00:13:02
I'm just going to tell you that saying my mom's involved with that is pretty out of this world. Detectives say
00:13:08
Austin continued to draw the investigators' attention toward the man with tattoos he says picked up his
00:13:15
father that day. Tell me what Describe what you're talking about when you talk about the look of him. Tats
00:13:22
came out with a black Asian. That was all red belt. That doesn't make sense. None of this makes sense.
00:13:29
The first interview, he recalls his dad getting into a vehicle and leaving. Then
00:13:33
that changed to he remembered some heavily tattooed man that looked, in his words, to be some sort of criminal
00:13:41
that was the driver of the vehicle that his dad got into. So, the story changed and morphed each time you talked with
00:13:48
him. Investigators suspected Austin's story was pure fiction. I just find way too
00:13:54
many inconsistencies in your stories. I mean, with your story, with your mom's story.
00:14:02
And did you feel that the story was rehearsed? Certainly. That he was trying to recall
00:14:07
a script. Script. But, a feeling isn't evidence and investigators had no choice but to let
00:14:16
Connie and Austin go. Next, they headed to the family's old neighborhood and former home.
00:14:25
Ironically, to a T, all the neighbors remembered Gary very well. Detective Nelson says that to a person, they
00:14:33
described Gary as a mean, horrible human being. We repeatedly heard the term the
00:14:40
biggest that you'll ever meet. If he was mad at a neighbor, apparently he had a pipe
00:14:45
organ and he would set up big speakers in the windows and he would blast pipe organ music into the neighbor's house.
00:14:53
In the wintertime, when he would get mad at a neighbor, he would take a snow blower over and purposely blow and fill
00:15:00
people's yards up in the middle of the night. With snow? With snow. He was just a
00:15:09
evil person. Neighbors Kaya and Chad Kramel's house was right behind the Herps house.
00:15:18
They say Gary often yelled at their two daughters and was caught secretly recording them on video.
00:15:27
I looked in in their back window, you could see the red light from the camera on. And I walked out there and I could
00:15:34
see the camera and Gary behind the camera. >> video camera. Video camera, like camcorder.
00:15:39
And he was just staring at me blatantly, like on purpose, wanting to you know, almost show me up and be like,
00:15:46
"Yeah, I'm recording." And I sat there and I was raising my head like, "Are you kidding me?" Chad filed an incident
00:15:52
report with police. It sounds like this has a psychological component to it, like he was messing with your mind.
00:15:59
>> Absolutely. I feel like he wanted power and he wanted everyone to know that he
00:16:04
had that power. He most definitely tried to exercise that power by messing with people, neighbors.
00:16:13
Another neighbor, Jason Grimm, says he experienced that first hand when Gary complained about the time he was snow
00:16:21
blowing. He came out and uh started screaming and shouting at me, telling me I was going
00:16:26
to going to flood his his basement. >> Did you feel like he was a little dangerous? I never feared him just
00:16:34
purely because it was all bark, no bite. Did you feel he was a dangerous man? Absolutely. And did you the same way?
00:16:42
Absolutely. And when investigators interviewed Dee Hamlin, the new owner of the house where
00:16:49
Gary and his family lived, they learned something that would confirm their suspicions about Connie and Austin. Over
00:16:57
in this area right here, before the closets were put in, somewhere over here, there was a big red stain.
00:17:18
When investigators canvassed Gary Herps' old neighborhood, they uncovered a trove
00:17:23
of new clues from the time around his disappearance. People didn't like him, were afraid
00:17:29
because he was very confrontational. Neighbors Chad and Kaya Kramel recalled a storm. Thunder, lightning, everything.
00:17:40
Like it was crazy. And unusual activity in Gary's backyard. It was maybe midnight-ish and we looked
00:17:49
out the window. I see a truck backed in the backyard. The truck was pulled right up to the sliding glass
00:17:58
door, which we knew was super strange because Gary was very particular with his yard. He did not like anything out
00:18:07
of order. Chad and Kaya told investigators they remembered seeing Austin and Connie
00:18:14
scrubbing the floors in the middle of the night. You could see directly from those windows into their house.
00:18:21
Absolutely. And loading large garbage bags into Gary's truck. They were also carrying out a carpet or
00:18:29
some sort of rug and also throwing it in the back of the truck. So, we were watching the scene and I turned to Chad
00:18:37
and I was like, "What is going on?" And Chad looked at me and he said, "Kaya, I think they finally killed him."
00:18:46
And did the two of you ever think what we should share what we've witnessed with the police? Absolutely not. No, and
00:18:52
as a matter of fact, he was horrible. And soon after that night, they say Connie and Austin seemed completely
00:19:00
different. It was good. It was fun to see them actually happy. A few weeks later, their neighbors saw
00:19:07
them setting up a yard sale. So, everybody started filtering over there, myself included, and we were looking at
00:19:16
all of the things that they had for sale. And what was for sale? Men's clothing, men's shoes,
00:19:24
um there were tools, ammo boxes. Now, did you ask her, "Where's Gary?" Yes. And the answer was
00:19:33
that he didn't want to be married anymore and he left. Jason says he scored a bargain. I did. Bought a riding
00:19:41
lawn tractor. Neighbors say Austin and Connie began happily walking the neighborhood offering up baked cookies.
00:19:49
And do you think his disappearance in some ways liberated their lives? Absolutely.
00:19:55
Their steps were lighter. It was nice not to have him around. All of a sudden, Connie and Austin, they
00:20:00
would be out in the yard stopping and greeting people, where none of that happened prior to the date that Gary
00:20:07
allegedly left. The next break in the case came when investigators obtained a search warrant
00:20:15
for the former Herpst house and notified the new owner, Dee Hamlin, that they would be bringing in a cadaver dog along
00:20:22
with her handler, police officer Dan Moldenhauer, to see if she could detect the scent of human remains. So, this
00:20:30
officer said there may have been someone killed inside the house and they wanted
00:20:33
a dog to come in to see if they picked up any odor of death. >> I go, "Absolutely."
00:20:40
When you got that call and you brought Radar out here, this is the very house you came to, correct?
00:20:46
>> Correct. Radar is the cadaver dog who searched Dee's house. She came back to the scene along with
00:20:52
her handler to show us what she did that day. Well, Radar wants to get inside, I'll
00:20:58
tell you. Yep, and I follow her. I was present when the dog originally came in. I was there for the first sniff
00:21:09
around. Hamlin says something in the garage caught Radar's attention. Radar concentrated heavily against this wall
00:21:19
and on the brick um behind the drywall pieces and the boxes. Radar, find it. Radar's search continued inside the
00:21:27
house. Radar would um run from space to space and room to room and almost like he had a pattern. And then we went
00:21:35
downstairs and that's where he slowed down. According to Radar's handler, the dog
00:21:42
detected the odor of human remains around that red stain Dee had seen. She went straight to this room, ignored
00:21:50
every other thing else, came back, went along the wall and then came to the corner where that closet door is. That
00:21:56
wasn't the only area that Radar was interested in. She had a lot of odor here. I mean, she checked all the walls
00:22:04
before she came back and and sat. So, there was definitely a a presence of some sort of material, um the guess is
00:22:12
blood, around this sliding door. Yes. Crime scene investigators tested the spots with Luminol, which indicated the
00:22:20
presence of blood in the areas where the cadaver dog alerted. When you have the Luminol literally lighting up, what is
00:22:27
it suggesting to you? Well, it's certainly consistent and corroborates what the neighbor saw. We
00:22:32
believe Gary was most likely murdered inside that particular house. That's when they called Connie and Austin in
00:22:40
for a third interview. So, we went to your old house. My way or your way? And just had a look. Trying to piece
00:22:50
together Gary's kind of last movements. And um there was some blood Okay. Connie said Gary, who
00:22:59
was a machinist, often worked on projects and sometimes accidentally cut himself.
00:23:06
Usually it was his fingers. This blood that we're finding um is a bit more significant than just a little cut on
00:23:14
the finger. Oh, yeah, that I wouldn't know. Investigators also questioned Connie about what the neighbors reported
00:23:21
seeing. Some witnesses saw what they thought was a rolled-up rug being loaded in the back of the pickup. Um
00:23:28
no. I don't know. We didn't have any carpet. Just up in the living room. Her body
00:23:35
language was to me was like she was defeated. Phil Narocki, a captain with the Scott County Sheriff's Office, was
00:23:42
also present at the interrogation. Like, as long as I can continue to deny everything, I'm going to be okay.
00:23:51
Um but she didn't get rattled. Very soft-spoken. Did she sense she was in real trouble,
00:23:58
do you think? Yes. I think she knew at that point that all the evidence was starting to gather up
00:24:04
uh against her and Austin. Investigators continued to press Connie. So, it sounds like
00:24:12
Gary was a little psychologically abusive with you guys. Yeah. What about physical abuse? One time he
00:24:23
um well, he hit me. Yeah. Not that I didn't probably deserve it cuz I got pushed too far. For Austin's
00:24:33
interview, cameras were rolling as he was grilled by Detective Jeff Nelson. Do you feel that he was the husband that he
00:24:40
should have been to your mother? No. And you stepped in and intervened in several times, did you not? Yeah. Okay.
00:24:46
You became her protector. Yeah. Okay. Which I would have to believe culminated in July of 2013 when you took action
00:24:55
to protect your mom. Did you pull the trigger and put the round in the back of your father's head?
00:25:01
But no matter how many times Austin was asked that question, he never answered it.
00:25:07
Once again, Connie and Austin were allowed to leave the police station. And that was a strategic plan that we had
00:25:14
come up with knowing full well that if we needed to arrest them, we'd be able to find them later. Now, investigators
00:25:21
believed they had enough evidence to bring the case to prosecutors. There was some reluctance. There was no
00:25:28
confession. It's simply a circumstantial case. Albeit we felt it was a very good
00:25:33
one. And on November 19th, 2020, around 7:00 a.m., Connie, then 62 years old, and
00:25:44
Austin, 26, were taken into custody. I tell Austin that he is under arrest for the murder of his father.
00:25:54
The two would eventually be charged with second-degree murder. Connie had already
00:25:59
declined the final interview with us and had been taken away to the jail. But this time, Austin was ready to explain
00:26:08
everything to investigators. Do you remember where you shot him? Yeah. And later to 48 Hours.
00:26:17
And what do you do with his body? I sling him over my shoulder and I walk into the forest.
00:26:39
Was it you or your mom that pulled the trigger? For more than 4 hours, Austin Herpst was
00:26:45
grilled about his role in his father's murder. What's it going to be, Austin? Was it you or your mom?
00:26:54
Did you get the gun, Austin? Yes or no? Is that fair to say that you think that you protected her and you feel that you
00:27:01
protected her that day? Yes or no? Finally, Austin broke. He said something to the effect of,
00:27:09
"I might as well tell you what I did." I said, "Austin, that's what we've been asking for."
00:27:14
On that day when my mom came home, he flew off the handle, so I grabbed the gun out of the phone.
00:27:23
Austin would tell investigators all about what happened that day. And now, for the first time, he is sharing his
00:27:30
story with 48 Hours. My father, Gary Herpst, was vindictive to an extreme that I have never
00:27:40
seen in anybody else. He was cruel. He was petty. He was violent. Did you reach an age in
00:27:50
which you came to fear your father or you felt like you were walking on eggshells? Very early. Uh I'd say by 6,
00:27:57
7 years old that fear was present. Austin says the emotional road he traveled that led to killing his own
00:28:04
father was filled with acts of violence and abuse beginning when he was a boy. Details he didn't share in earlier
00:28:13
interviews with investigators. He proceeded to put a cigarette out on my arm and I screamed and cried and ran
00:28:21
and I did something wrong, picked me up by my throat and threw me like down a flight of stairs.
00:28:27
Austin says his mother was treated even more brutally. Terribly. Unbelievably so. Physical
00:28:35
abuse on a weekly, sometimes daily basis. Uh always demeaning, always negative. Did you ever see a time in which he drew
00:28:44
blood from your mother from striking her? Yes. He punched her right in the face. Pure black and blue the next day.
00:28:51
She had blood leaking from her mouth. Psychological abuse, physical abuse. Yeah.
00:28:57
You swear on everything you believe in and you're telling me the truth. >> Absolutely.
00:29:01
Austin, just 19 years old when he murdered his father, recalls that tragic day, July 8th, 2013.
00:29:10
The start of the day seemed very normal to me. Austin remembers playing video games that afternoon when his dad
00:29:17
returned home from work. Had he been drinking that day? Yeah. He drank regularly. Around about, I'd say,
00:29:25
I think it was like 2:00 or 3:00, my mom came home and she and him got into an argument about
00:29:32
money. There was yelling. I tried my best to protect her. I am a wall. I will not let this
00:29:40
continue. Austin says his mom went to the public library. My father at this point was
00:29:45
laying on the couch half asleep. And as I walked out, I noticed that that skirting was like crumpled up. I lifted
00:29:53
up the skirting and I saw the firearm. It's a pistol. Yes. Austin says his father had never brought
00:30:00
a gun into the living room before. In my heart of hearts, I knew that my mother's life was in danger and by
00:30:07
extension my own. It all just culminated like, "Oh my god, he's going to kill her."
00:30:13
All these thoughts ran through my head almost instantaneously. And I reached underneath the couch. I
00:30:19
grabbed the gun. I pointed it at him and I pulled the trigger. You know, it it was surreal almost,
00:30:26
right? Like the bang went off. My hearing popped and it was just immediately There was almost
00:30:35
like a numbness. I've never asked this question, you know, in my years on 48 Hours.
00:30:40
What was it like to pick up that pistol, point it at your father's head and pull the trigger?
00:30:49
It broke me. It It changed who I am irrevocably. I can never be the person I was or even
00:30:56
the person I would have become had that never happened. But that moment, are you anguished over what you
00:31:03
had done? Are you horrified? I There was a level of relief knowing that I would never again have to have
00:31:10
that fear. Having to worry about my mother's life, having to worry about my life.
00:31:15
>> Austin says he called his mother at the library and told her to come home. And how does your mom react to this
00:31:21
scene? Uh sort of the same way I did. Sort of just stunned. Austin says he placed his
00:31:28
father's body, wrapped in a rug, in the trunk of their car. They drove into neighboring Wisconsin.
00:31:36
What are you and your mom talking about? We aren't. At that point, the you know, the
00:31:41
adrenaline's still rushing. It's still fear. About 2 hours later, Austin and his mom
00:31:49
pulled onto a field next to a patch of trees. He says they dumped Gary's body at this
00:31:56
spot and then fled. I figured that wildlife would take care of the rest. What do you mean wildlife take care of
00:32:03
the Bears, foxes, they would devour the body, the bones would be scattered, nobody would know.
00:32:09
That seems a bit barbaric. Absolutely. I was not in the state of mind that I ever want to revisit.
00:32:19
I was at the lowest I'd ever been. Both in my emotions and in my humanity. We do have information that he was not a
00:32:28
pleasant person to be around, but being an unpleasant person does not rise to the level of being a domestic abuser.
00:32:36
With no evidence Austin acted in self-defense. Prosecutors Mike Grow and Sarah Windorff said Austin and Connie
00:32:45
would be charged with second-degree murder. What Austin described as happening was not an emergency
00:32:53
situation. It did not rise to a self-defense offense. Your life while he was sleeping
00:33:01
there on the couch was not under imminent threat. You didn't have to shoot him. This wasn't
00:33:09
legally self-defense. This was murder. Correct. And as prosecutors prepared for trial,
00:33:16
they questioned whether there was more to Connie's role in Gary's killing than Austin had admitted. Do you at times
00:33:24
wonder to yourself, could Connie have pulled that trigger? As prosecutor, of course, I wonder about that.
00:33:45
I shot my father because if I hadn't, I would have been dead. My mother would have been dead.
00:33:54
What are the options that his son could have done other than kill Gary? He could have grabbed the gun and
00:34:02
left the house and told the police what had been going on. Prosecutor Mike Grow.
00:34:07
All of those things are possible and uh very doable except shooting him in the head, which is the last thing that a
00:34:15
civilized person would supposedly do. Once Austin Herbs confessed to killing his father, he agreed to plead guilty to
00:34:23
second-degree murder. It was what we call a straight plea, which means there was no promises made by the state as to
00:34:30
what you would get. Connie Herbs pleaded guilty to aiding an offender, accomplice
00:34:37
after the fact. Austin said, "Yes, I was the one that killed my dad." And then that's when we decided Connie would be
00:34:44
charged with the aiding an offender after the fact. Without a trial, prosecutor Sarah
00:34:51
Windorff says there were many unanswered questions about Austin and Connie's claims of physical abuse. We have never
00:35:00
seen any information to suggest that there was any abuse um that Gary had committed against Austin or his wife.
00:35:07
They never said anything until they were in trouble and then they told these reasons why they were abused. The
00:35:15
prosecutors in this case say, "Well, there's no real evidence that any of this happened." Of course. And
00:35:23
I can't I can't refute that. I can't refute that there is no evidence that occurred. It is all hearsay. Austin told
00:35:29
48 Hours he and his mom had never reported abuse to the police, friends, or extended family members because they
00:35:37
feared for their lives at the hands of Gary. As I've been told, "If you try to have me arrested, if you try to flee, if
00:35:46
you try to, you know, go your own way, I will find you and kill you." Another question for prosecutors
00:35:54
involves Connie's whereabouts on the day of the murder. You said that your mom was at the
00:36:00
library at the time that your father was shot, correct? The prosecutors say investigators were
00:36:07
never able to find evidence that that's true, that she was there. And they wonder if your mother
00:36:13
was the one who killed your father and that you, as her protector, have told a story where you're taking
00:36:23
the responsibility for something that she did. My mom would never allow me to take a fall like that
00:36:31
if she had done that. And I need to ask you that question. Did your mother, Connie,
00:36:36
shoot and kill your father? I'm telling you right now on everything I hold dear.
00:36:42
My mother did not shoot my father. Prosecutors said a potential motive for Gary's murder was hate, illustrated by
00:36:51
how Austin left his father's corpse in these woods to be eaten. That is inhuman and that is barbaric.
00:37:00
Inhumanity that at the time seemed to have left Austin overjoyed. I experienced more happiness
00:37:09
afterwards than I had for my entire 18 years of living with him. You're having cookies with the neighbors
00:37:15
while your father's corpse is being eaten by animals. Yeah. It was It was a strange dichotomy. It
00:37:24
actually brought me a sense of almost shame that my happiness is on the on the feet of
00:37:33
the ultimate act of violence. It still makes me wonder what kind of person I am that that could have
00:37:38
happened. At Austin Herbs' June 2021 sentencing hearing at the Scott County District
00:37:46
Court in Minnesota, prosecutors asked that he be sentenced to 30 years in prison.
00:37:54
I made it clear to the judge that he deserved the uh highest sentence because of the callous way that he was killed
00:38:02
and the body was treated. But Judge Carolyn Lennon said she found Austin's claims believable. In her ruling, she
00:38:09
said, "I find it credible that you believed that he was going to kill your mom." And later said Austin felt an
00:38:17
underlying obligation to protect his mother. He was sentenced to 12 years, 6 months
00:38:24
and will be eligible for release in 2029. It's horrendous because if we allow that
00:38:30
kind of justice to go, uh nobody's safe because they'll say that I have been abused, that's why I did this.
00:38:40
Gary Herb's sister, Linda, seemed a bit overwhelmed. 12 and 1/2. That does not seem
00:38:50
very relevant to someone's life. It seems very very light. 8 months later, Connie Herbs was back in court for her
00:38:58
sentencing. We also recommended for Connie um the highest end of the guideline sentence,
00:39:05
which was 57 months. That would have been almost 5 years in prison. Yes. But the judge decided Connie would get 2
00:39:12
years and 3 months. Under Minnesota sentencing guidelines, she served just 3 months behind bars and
00:39:19
was released in May of 2022. I think that he was psychotic. And back in the small town of Elko New
00:39:31
Market, Minnesota, where the murder took place, a few of Gary Herb's former neighbors had hoped Austin and his
00:39:37
mother, Connie, wouldn't do any hard time for eliminating a man they considered a monster.
00:39:46
I felt sad because I didn't really want them to be caught. I don't feel that they were a
00:39:53
danger to society. Jason Grimm even had a message for Austin. I hope he's doing well and when he gets out, please look
00:40:00
us up. I'd like to help him in any way I can. Really? Yeah. Do you feel in a way though he got a 12
00:40:07
and a half year sentence? Was that too much? I think it's a little bit excessive.
00:40:12
Hopefully he can pick up the pieces and move on with his life. Do you believe that what you did was justified?
00:40:18
I believe that there are a lot of reasons why the act was justifiable. So under the same circumstances
00:40:29
you would still shoot him again. I believe so. And when you get out what do you want people to know about
00:40:42
whether you will be a potential danger to society or a contributor to society? My only goal in life is to leave
00:40:51
something behind that's worth remembering. This isn't it. This isn't it. I want to leave behind a legacy
00:41:00
other than I killed my father. Welcome to Postmortem. I'm 48 Hours correspondent Natalie Morales filling in
00:41:49
today for Anne Marie Green and today we are discussing the case of Gary Herpst who was reported missing by his wife in
00:41:58
2014. Three years later a dog discovered his skull in rural Wisconsin with a gunshot
00:42:06
wound in the back of the head. Joining me today to discuss this fascinating report is 48 Hours correspondent Peter
00:42:13
Van Zandt. Thanks for joining us Peter. Hey Natalie, how are you? I'm good, thank you. And this one really
00:42:19
was riveting. Absolutely. And the notion that this man in in rural Wisconsin, he
00:42:24
goes out, sees his dog gnawing on something in the driveway, comes up and checks it out and sees a human skull and
00:42:31
calls police. It was just incredible. Now Peter, this hour also features your exclusive interview with a convicted
00:42:39
killer and it And this is one of the most revealing conversations about a murder that I've heard here on 48 Hours.
00:42:46
Yeah, over the years I was trying to add it up. I've I've talked to about 19 accused killers.
00:42:51
None of them has ever admitted it. Uh we've had very confrontational interviews and things and gotten very
00:42:58
close to getting them to to admit, but in this case uh Austin Herpst, uh Gary's son, not
00:43:04
only admits it, but he gives us details step by step of how he murdered his own father and left his corpse in the woods
00:43:12
for animals to eat to destroy the evidence. He he delivers that matter-of-factly and it's uh it's
00:43:19
chilling and yet fascinating. So in 2017, after that dog dug up an unidentified human skull, police then
00:43:27
went to the woods in Wisconsin. They found additional human remains there, but investigators were unable to
00:43:33
identify the victim until three years later and that's when genetic genealogists got involved and they were
00:43:40
able to use DNA to trace a family tree which then led them to identifying the victim as Gary Herpst. Gary's wife
00:43:48
Connie had filed a missing person's report for him back in 2014. Peter, what was her story back then?
00:43:55
Connie said that Gary just walked out on them. Packed some clothing, took $5,000
00:44:01
in cash, but he left his cell phone behind. That seemed very strange. Connie said that he left in a gray Honda
00:44:08
vehicle that was driven by an unknown person. And Connie says that she was at home, and this is important later. She
00:44:15
was at home when Gary left her and only reported him missing when Gary's sister asked them to many months later when
00:44:24
there'd been a death in the family and they wanted to notify Gary. That's when they learned that he was missing and
00:44:30
they urged Connie to file that report. So there was a gap in the timing from when he went missing to then when they
00:44:38
actually reported it. And then when investigators were able to finally track down Gary's wife Connie and their adult
00:44:45
son Austin in 2020 they said as you did that Gary walked out on the family seven years earlier
00:44:52
and described him as being volatile and abusive. But investigators were immediately suspicious about the stories
00:45:00
they were telling because some of the details weren't really adding up, right Peter? That's absolutely right. In 2020,
00:45:08
Connie told cops she was at the library when he left, not at home. Remember her first story, she said she was at home.
00:45:15
Also in 2020, Connie said that her 40 caliber gun had been taken, but she didn't mention anything about her pistol
00:45:22
being taken before. And Austin's version of events changed throughout his interviews. His first police interview,
00:45:30
he claimed a stranger picked Gary up and drove away, but in a second interview, he said the driver was a mysterious man
00:45:38
with tattoos who was sketchy. And during the second interview, they both consented, Austin and his mother Connie,
00:45:45
to a polygraph test. Now Connie didn't show any signs of deception, but Austin did.
00:45:52
And by this point investigators had a hunch they were lying, but there was no other evidence, so they had to let
00:45:59
Connie and Austin go even though their their instincts told them, gosh, they must have been involved in in Gary's
00:46:05
disappearance. Well, the investigators then continue on with their work trying to put the case together. They then go
00:46:12
canvas the neighborhood and that's when they were able to get clues from the neighbors who said he was a
00:46:18
confrontational and retaliatory guy. So the neighbors, Chad and Kaya, told them back in 2013 they remembered seeing
00:46:25
Austin and Connie scrubbing the floors in the middle of the night. They were loading large garbage bags and what
00:46:32
appeared to be a rolled up rug or a carpet into Gary's truck. Yet they didn't report any of this to the police.
00:46:40
Why not Peter? Yeah, and and Kaya recalls that when they had observed them loading up the
00:46:45
garbage bags, her husband Chad said, Kaya, I think they finally killed him, but they were going off on a hunch. Since
00:46:53
they did not see the body or any blood, they thought Gary, as the whole neighborhood did, was a horrible man and
00:47:01
in some ways potentially dangerous. The neighbors also told investigators that, look, murder is never the answer and
00:47:09
that no one deserves to be murdered, but they also hoped that these two would not
00:47:15
be punished in any way because they felt Gary was just that terrible of a human being.
00:47:22
So they speculated from the get-go then it was Connie and Austin who killed Gary
00:47:27
and that he didn't just walk out on the family as, you know, Connie and Austin were telling people back then. Yeah,
00:47:33
it's like that scene out of The Wizard of Oz, you know, ding dong the witch is dead, the wicked old witch. That's the
00:47:39
way it was in that neighborhood. And uh when they were watching Austin and Connie after he had disappeared, they
00:47:45
were so happy. You know, they were walking around with cookies and offering them to neighbors that they hadn't
00:47:50
really spoken to much cuz they said Gary always kept them indoors. And um neighbors also saw Austin and Connie, if
00:47:58
you're ready for this, setting up for a yard sale. And what was for sale? Well, it was men's clothing, Gary's clothing
00:48:04
obviously. Men's shoes, ammo boxes, tools, uh Gary's favorite ride along a lawn mower. And when Kaya asked Connie
00:48:13
where Gary was, she replied uh he just didn't want to be married anymore and he left. Yeah, but the real
00:48:20
crack in the case was when a cadaver dog Radar then searched the former Herpst house in 2020 and detected the scent of
00:48:30
human remains. Now as a dog lover, I love that you have two dogs that really helped be the key in helping solve this
00:48:37
case. Yeah, the handler, Dan Moldenhauer, told us that Radar is a German Shepherd rescue from Wisconsin.
00:48:44
And when she detects the presence of human decomposition, she will turn around, sit and look right at
00:48:51
Moldenhauer. And I witnessed this myself. After all these years, Radar went through the Herpst house and
00:48:57
alerted at the very spot where the new owner said that she had seen this red stain on the floor. And at the time
00:49:04
Radar alerted and when we were there, she did it again, which was really something to see. The dog also alerted
00:49:11
at the basement sliding door that led outside, which is where of course the neighbors had seen the the two of them
00:49:17
bringing out bags and what appeared to be this rolled up rug, which when they were talking to each other, they
00:49:22
thought, gosh, could there be a body inside that? And all of the areas that Radar detected
00:49:28
were also areas where the Luminol glowed. 48 Hours people know very well, you spray this chemical Luminol, it
00:49:36
detects blood and turn off the lights and they put a special uh light that causes that chemical to
00:49:43
glow and all over that house it was glowing. Uh it looked like um you know, Times
00:49:48
Square and that told them this was definitely the murder scene. So even though Peter, this was largely a
00:49:54
circumstantial case back in November 2020, police then arrested Connie and Austin for Gary Herp's murder. And when
00:50:02
Austin was interviewed then for the fourth time, that is when he finally said he shot his father and he alleged
00:50:10
he did it because of years of physical and psychological abuse. Now you Peter were able to sit face to face with
00:50:19
Austin. You spoke to him at length. What was it like sitting across from him hearing all that detail? He was one of
00:50:26
the most fascinating killers I have ever met and I can call him that cuz he admitted to it. He was charming,
00:50:32
articulate, intelligent, a a great storyteller and a man who's spent all this time in prison. He's really thought
00:50:38
about this story and he has readymade answers for whatever you ask. He believes the killing of his father
00:50:45
was justified and he told me with with without any emotion that if he could go back in time and the circumstances were
00:50:53
the same, he'd shoot him again. He tells one story during the course of the interview that there was this bloody
00:50:59
mess down there on the floor. We didn't put any of this in the show itself. His mother comes home and she sees it and
00:51:05
they were both just matter-of-fact about we need to clean this up. Uh but despite
00:51:10
all of those years passing, Austin never came forward, remember this, to tell the
00:51:15
truth about what had occurred inside that house until he had to, until basically he was confronted with we know
00:51:21
you did this. There's a really interesting exchange that I had with Austin that wasn't in
00:51:26
the show that I want people to hear. It's about his thought process leading up to his confession because it suggests
00:51:35
that there was a possible cover-up here. About 4 and 1/2 hours into the questioning, you finally do speak up and
00:51:41
you say, "I would like to tell the truth, but I need to talk to my mom first." Why did you have to talk to her? Was
00:51:51
that to fabricate another story? I think it was partially that. Part of my brain was thinking, well, I
00:51:57
need to talk to my mom and you know, figure out what to say to get away with this.
00:52:03
Now, later on in my life here, I think I was looking for an excuse to tell the truth.
00:52:10
I think I was looking for a way to to confess what I had done. Because even though
00:52:21
I had had these years of happiness and freedom, it's a weight. It truly is a weight
00:52:27
having something like that and knowing that nobody knows. Hm. So interesting Peter. Yeah, to have
00:52:35
a discussion on how to get away with this murder. >> Yeah. Wow. He is a he is a contradiction all the
00:52:42
time. You you feel sorry for him in one moment and then others there's this cold
00:52:46
calculation that's going on. Um so that's what makes him so fascinating. Yeah. Well, Austin did say on the day of
00:52:54
the murder that Gary and Connie had gotten into some sort of argument. Connie then left. He said she went to
00:53:00
the library. Gary then fell asleep on the couch and that's when Austin said he saw the gun
00:53:07
under the skirt of the couch. He said that's when he sort of went into this mode where he started to fear for his
00:53:14
life, for his mother's life. He picked up the gun and then he shot Gary while Gary was asleep laying on that couch. I
00:53:22
want to play more of your interview when you grilled Austin about his actions. What do you say that
00:53:29
your life while he was sleeping there on the couch was not under imminent threat
00:53:35
and that you could have picked up the gun and left the house and gone to the police.
00:53:41
You didn't have to shoot him. This wasn't legally self-defense. This was murder.
00:53:48
Correct. What do you say to all that? I have to refer back to again, 18 years I've been told, "If you try to have me
00:53:58
arrested, if you try to flee, if you try to, you know, go your own way, I will find you and
00:54:04
kill you." You believe you have no doubt in fact that when he woke up, he would have been the one to
00:54:11
pick up that firearm. He would have been the one to pull the trigger. Absolutely.
00:54:15
100%. Kill or be killed. >> Exactly. And it's a terrible it's a terrible situation to have been put in.
00:54:22
Kill my father or accept that my death is on its way. The question I still have to this day,
00:54:29
was it kill or be killed or was it kill and we'll be happy the rest of our lives
00:54:34
by eliminating this man who by many accounts was a nasty personality with a mean disposition?
00:54:40
And he says that he suffered abuse. He's asking others to understand that he was
00:54:45
protecting his and his mom's lives. Keep in mind, he always said, "I was my mother's protector." and he really did
00:54:52
believe she would be shot. But prosecutors said there's a lot of ways of protecting people these days and that
00:55:00
Austin should have picked up the gun, gone to cops, but we've seen of course in other cases where victims of domestic
00:55:06
abuse did all the right steps and they still ended up being killed by their abusers.
00:55:13
Prosecutors argued however, you can't let someone off easy for murder just because they claimed that
00:55:19
they were abused or else anyone could say that and as they told me off camera, you could have a million people murdered
00:55:26
a year if that was a legitimate basis for killing someone. Welcome back. Now Austin Herp's claimed
00:55:36
that he shot his father Gary after he alleges Gary abused him and his mother for years. But Peter, despite all those
00:55:44
allegations, did police ever get any reports of abuse or did family members become aware of any such claims of
00:55:51
abuse? Prosecutors say there was no reported evidence of abuse and that the first time Austin and Connie talk about
00:56:00
abuse is after Gary's body is identified and a murder investigation is launched.
00:56:07
And Gary's the victim's sister Linda and her husband uh hung out with them many many times before there was this sort of
00:56:15
breakup in the family and they never saw any evidence of abuse, not a bruise, not
00:56:21
a scratch, a cut. In fact, uh Linda's husband was a veteran cop of 30 years trained to to to look for signs of abuse
00:56:32
and he said whenever he saw Austin and his father Gary together that it was a loving relationship and they had a great
00:56:38
time together. But remember, and this is important, Linda was estranged from Gary
00:56:43
and hadn't seen him for years. And over time, who knows, the abuse may have gotten worse. Yeah, and I mean of course
00:56:51
the other side of that Peter, we know with domestic abuse victims that they usually suffer in silence or they fear
00:56:58
that if they tell someone the abuse will just get worse for them. And psychological abuse, well, you can't
00:57:04
necessarily see it. That it doesn't give you bruises or a black eye. So this is what's made my head spin around during
00:57:11
the course of this of this investigation and it it spins to this day. You raised the issue with Austin. We
00:57:19
have a little bit more of your exchange. Prosecutors also say that there was no what they call real
00:57:26
evidence that either you or your mother were ever physically abused by Gary. You never called police. You
00:57:35
didn't seek help from the court system. You didn't seek help from any social agencies.
00:57:42
And what do you say to that? For as many abuse cases that are reported to police,
00:57:51
for as many people who contact them and receive restraining orders against other
00:57:55
people due to domestic abuse and violence, I don't know the statistics, but I can
00:58:01
guarantee you there are just as many that go unreported. Not everybody has the freedom or the courage or the
00:58:09
ability to call the cops, to receive a restraining order. Why didn't you ever share with
00:58:18
a friend, "My father is abusing me and my mother. We we fear him." They could find no one to back up
00:58:26
your story. I had to hide it. I had attempted to when I was younger and it brought me either being bullied
00:58:36
because I was a weird child or just apathy. Wasn't their problem. And I I mean that I'm talking
00:58:47
kindergarten, first, second grade. As a child I was like, okay, nobody cares. So I'll just keep this to myself.
00:58:53
It's a compelling story. I can't tell you that it is untrue. It's just as as prosecutors who are
00:59:00
suspicious about all this say, it only came out when their lives were on the line and this was the only
00:59:07
defense in the prosecutor's minds that they could put forward that in some ways would create sympathy for them
00:59:14
and and the notion that they had was that that could lead to a a lesser sentence. You then asked Austin
00:59:22
how he and his mother Connie decided to dispose of Gary's body. I want to play a
00:59:27
little bit more of your interview. This part didn't make it into the hour. We drive for I'd say about 2 2 and 1/2
00:59:35
hours. I start taking county roads. And there is a like almost like a square of forest and
00:59:41
then a field. And then you try to dig a hole, a grave? Yeah. What happens? In the process of doing so,
00:59:51
cars, you know, I I can still see the lights on the road of vehicles that pass by.
00:59:56
And I saw a vehicle go by. And I heard the vehicle slow down. So, at that point I got nervous. And
01:00:07
I went back to the car. I figured that wildlife would take care of the rest. What do you mean wildlife take care of
01:00:13
the Bears, foxes, they would devour the body, the bones would be scattered. Nobody would know.
01:00:20
That seems a bit barbaric. Absolutely. I was not in a state of mind that I ever want to revisit.
01:00:29
I was at the lowest I'd ever been. Both in my emotions and in my humanity. Mhm. Dumped the body so animals would eat
01:00:39
him. And um he says it so matter-of-factly even now, there's no emotion behind those words.
01:00:48
It's a It's he's like he's delivering a report. It It became in a way the perfect cover-up. You know, evidence is
01:00:54
in the stomach of beasts. And they also ended up getting rid of other evidence according to Austin after they returned
01:01:01
home, they cut up the couch into pieces cuz there was blood all over the couch. They put the pieces in plastic bags and
01:01:08
placed them in Gary's truck along with the rug. That's the stuff that the neighbors believe actually saw and drove
01:01:15
to a campsite where he and his mother burned the remaining evidence. They also disposed of the gun used to kill him in
01:01:22
a lake that's that was nearby. And after the murder, they did everything possible
01:01:28
to cover up what they had done. They lied to cops. And I said to him, that's what criminals do. And he says, yeah,
01:01:34
that is. And did they ever tell you if they thought at all to call the cops and and
01:01:41
you know, to claim even that this they did this in self-defense instead of, you know, trying to cover up what was a
01:01:47
murder? Yeah, I was a little surprised by this. Austin said that he and his mother
01:01:52
didn't call the police because they believe that cops are evil. Austin told me that he was made to feel scared that
01:01:59
if he did call the cops, he would be locked away for life. So, they lied to cops uh for years. Let's talk more about
01:02:06
Connie Herpst because she pleaded guilty to aiding an offender and accomplice after the fact. She was sentenced to 2
01:02:13
years, 3 months without a trial, but under Minnesota sentencing guidelines, Connie ended up serving just 3 months
01:02:20
behind bars. She was released in May of 2022. Now, in your interview with Austin
01:02:26
Peter, you raised the prosecutor's speculation about whether Connie might have actually been the one to have shot
01:02:33
Gary Herpst and that Austin, as he said, he was always his mother's protector, was he perhaps the one who was then
01:02:41
taking the fall for it? Yeah, the prosecution really wanted to cross-examine Connie to challenge her
01:02:48
about uh her story if if if she was at the house or at the library. But because she took this plea deal, she didn't go
01:02:55
to trial and they never got that chance. And of course, we asked Connie for an interview and she turned us down. Well,
01:03:02
Austin ultimately pleaded guilty to second-degree murder and in 2021, a judge sentenced him to 12 years and 6
01:03:10
months. Now, Austin will be eligible for release in 2029. Peter, were you at all
01:03:15
surprised by the sentence? Yes, there's um you know, discretion with the judge. She heard his story. And uh people
01:03:23
who've listened to this podcast, you get a sense of of this young man, the intelligence. You don't sense there's
01:03:30
some demonic threatening thing in his personality. She believed his story of abuse. The prosecution, honestly, was
01:03:38
flabbergasted by how light a sentence um was given to both Connie and Austin. And consider this, in addition to the
01:03:47
murder, Connie and Austin, they'd obstructed an investigation. They lied to police officers. That's a crime. They
01:03:54
desecrated a corpse. And you would have thought those things would have been reflected in the length of their
01:03:59
sentences, but it was not. But as you report, Peter, which was so fascinating is
01:04:05
hearing from the neighbors again who, you know, they hated Gary Herpst. And they were actually hoping that Connie
01:04:12
and Austin would have to serve no time. They didn't want them to do any hard time. I don't think we ever hear people
01:04:20
being that empathetic and supportive to defendants in a case of murder. Yeah, the the neighbors, the former
01:04:28
neighbors were very supportive of of of the two of them. One said that she thinks Austin's sentence is is too much
01:04:35
time and that it's wrong considering the abuse. And another neighbor uh felt that
01:04:40
Austin's actions were justified. And he even offered to help him when he gets out. He told me, I might offer him a
01:04:46
job. And um they they they felt the Austin they got to know was not a threat to society in any way. Well, one can
01:04:56
hope that he's he's learned a lot from this experience and having the time to think about his actions. Um but thank
01:05:03
you again for great reporting and for joining us. Thanks, Natalie. And thank you all for
01:05:09
listening. Now, if you like this podcast, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.