00:00:08
How you feeling? >> How you feeling, Mr. Temple? >> Excuse me. Excuse me. >> Where is my boy?
00:00:14
>> Your first thoughts, David, as you come out. >> It's It's been nine years. It's been a
00:00:21
long journey. And uh we're waiting for justice to be served once and for all and for the people that put me there and
00:00:28
lied and cheated to be held accountable. >> David Temple spent nine years in prison
00:00:37
for a crime he says he did not commit. A court ruled his trial was unfair and he's out for now. The question is, will
00:00:45
prosecutors try him again? There have been developments in this case and we've been covering it since 2007.
00:00:53
>> We the jury find the defendant David Mark Temple guilty of murder as charged in the indictment.
00:01:01
>> David Temple was convicted after a six-week trial by a fair and impartial jury. He was given a life sentence for
00:01:09
executing his wife and unborn child. My name is Kelly Seigler. I was a Harris County prosecutor for 21 years. You have
00:01:19
the right to expect us to tell you the truth. The last murder case I handled here in Harris County was the David
00:01:25
Temple case. David Temple was in Katy High School a big man on campus because he was a big football star out there.
00:01:33
Belinda Temple, the kind of girl that nobody could say anything ugly or bad about. They had a son named Evan and the
00:01:42
facts of the case were just so different and horrible. >> I do not believe David Temple got a fair
00:01:53
trial. No person with eyes and ears and half a brain can say David Temple got a fair trial.
00:01:58
>> Mr. Darren made the argument that there were more than one burglar. >> Dick Darren was the trial lawyer for
00:02:03
David Temple. Dick did the best that he could with what he had. >> We objected and asked that she stay in
00:02:08
the record. Temple's appeals team discovered evidence was withheld from the defense.
00:02:15
>> On my left is the complete investigative report. This was never seen. This is what was suppressed.
00:02:27
Did you turn over the 1400 pages of police reports? >> No. Every single thing under the law Mr.
00:02:34
Darren was entitled to was turned over to him. I care about what I do. I care about the
00:02:43
process. And this process shook me. Kids in Katie, lots of them got shotguns. >> There were alternate suspects in this
00:02:52
case. >> What in the world do they have to do with who killed Belinda Temple? Nothing.
00:02:58
>> She lied. She cheated. And she broke the rules. That's not that's not >> a court agreed that evidence was
00:03:06
withheld and overturned Temple's conviction, but it is not over yet. >> David Temple is innocent. I want
00:03:15
complete exoneration. >> Prosecutors will have to decide whether to try him again for the murder of his
00:03:22
wife. >> Do you think you're going to be retrieded? >> I don't know, but if I need to do it, I
00:03:27
would do it. And I'd do it tomorrow if I need to do it. Heat. Hey. Hey. It's just a long process of u having to
00:04:03
go through that and spend 3,000 plus days in prison for something that you didn't commit.
00:04:09
>> David Temple served 9 years in prison for the murder of his wife Belinda. She
00:04:15
was 8 months pregnant and he has always denied having anything to do with her death. finally just to take another step
00:04:23
to being free where I'm at today and just to work day by day of having my name cleared once and for all. Temple's
00:04:32
conviction was overturned by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals in late 2016. The court found he did not get a fair
00:04:40
trial and granted his request for a new one. His original trial was in 2007. You know with all your heart, David
00:04:51
Temple is guilty of murder. >> And it was one tough case. It took more than 8 years to bring Temple to trial.
00:05:00
Belinda was murdered in 1999. >> Harris County did an excellent job of collecting evidence and processing the
00:05:08
scene. >> Back then, Steve Clappert was an investigator for the DA's office. He says Belinda Temple's murder unnerved
00:05:16
the Houston suburb of Katy. Temple grew up there and was a high school football star. After college, he brought Belinda
00:05:24
back to his hometown. >> We were married in January of 92. College sweethearts. She was an
00:05:32
incredible woman, incredible wife, an incredible mother. >> Belinda taught special ed at Katy High.
00:05:40
David coached football in a nearby town. Their son, Evan, was just three and a half when David told him he lost his
00:05:49
mother. >> It's the saddest thing that uh you've seen as a boy that's just being broken.
00:06:09
just immediately the tears that came out of his eyes. When we spoke with Temple just after his
00:06:19
2007 trial, he told us his version of what happened the day Belinda died. David said Belinda was home after school
00:06:31
that afternoon while he took Evan out to run some errands. They are seen on this
00:06:38
surveillance tape. >> We stopped, got two drinks, and I picked up a bag of cat food.
00:06:45
>> He said when they got home, it was clear something was wrong. >> The back door is open and it's cracked
00:06:53
with glass. Took my son across the street and banged on my friend's house and handed them evidence. Asked if they
00:07:00
would call 911. >> 911. Go ahead, ma'am. >> Somebody has broken into my neighbor's
00:07:04
house. David ran back to his house and he says discovered Belinda's body slumped on the floor of their bedroom
00:07:12
closet. A cordless phone was by her side. I just walked in. My wife, I believe she's been shot. It's got blood
00:07:20
everywhere. >> She was killed by a shotgun blast to the head. Neither she nor her unborn baby
00:07:27
ever had a chance. >> Have you felt for her to have a pulse? >> Yes, she doesn't have one.
00:07:34
She's gone. She's gone. >> Temple told police he had no idea what had happened, but as is routine, the
00:07:48
police were sizing him up. >> Usually, you go to the closest people, and David, of course, was the was her
00:07:55
husband, so he was immediately of interest. And from the beginning, they found reasons to doubt David's
00:08:03
story. >> This is the actual door. Right. >> Right. This is the actual door. >> Dean Holty, then a crime scene tech,
00:08:10
told us in 2007 that he thought the breakin looked staged. >> If the door is sitting in in this
00:08:18
position, closed >> and intruder is going to make entry and break it out here, you would expect to
00:08:23
see the glass straight out this way. >> Broken glass would go straight out. >> Exactly. But you found it off to the
00:08:29
left. >> Yeah. >> What did the placement of that glass tell you? >> That the door hadn't been open when the
00:08:35
glass was broken. >> The TV was down on the floor, but it's not unplugged. You're there to to steal
00:08:44
a TV and you're first you're going to unplug it, right? >> But here's what really caught the
00:08:50
detective's attention. It turned out that David Temple was cheating on his pregnant wife. He'd been seeing a
00:08:58
teacher named Heather Scott. >> Do you think the affair with Heather was one reason that the jury might have
00:09:04
turned against you? >> Well, absolutely. There's not a doubt in my mind, but being unfaithful doesn't
00:09:10
make me a murderer. >> Police believe they had their man, but could not arrest Temple because there
00:09:15
was no hard evidence connecting him to the crime. No forensics, no fingerprints, no DNA. There were no
00:09:23
signs that Temple had cleaned up. No glass or blood was found in his truck. And despite an exhaustive search, police
00:09:32
never found a shotgun they could connect to David Temple. >> There is no evidence that points towards
00:09:38
me because it's impossible for there to be any because because I did not kill my wife.
00:09:45
Plain and simple. But there was nothing plain and simple about this case. >> I've not seen a case anything like this,
00:09:54
>> especially because one of Temple's neighbors had had run-ins with Belinda before.
00:10:00
>> You're not going to believe what happened. >> And he had lied about his whereabouts on
00:10:05
the day she was shot to death. I think the thing that makes this case so well known here in Harris County is
00:10:27
because of the way Belinda was killed. It was 2004 when Kelly Seagler got her first look at the case against David
00:10:40
Temple in his wife's murder. It was more than 5 years after the crime and nobody
00:10:46
had been arrested. >> I thought this is a really good case. >> But this was not an easy case.
00:10:52
>> No cold case that's a circumstantial evidence case is ever going to be easy, Richard.
00:10:59
They're all going to be hard. Seagler had a well-earned reputation for high energy,
00:11:04
>> one, two, >> high profile, >> three, four, >> and highly dramatic prosecutions.
00:11:12
>> Like you're mad, like you're afraid, like you can't can't stop. >> And she believed she could make a case
00:11:18
against David Temple with the evidence she had. What did you have? >> So many little pieces. the stage
00:11:26
burglary and the timeline that he tried to put together so perfectly, but he didn't quite pull off.
00:11:34
>> So, David Temple was arrested. It took three years to bring him to trial and into Kelly Seagler's crosshairs.
00:11:43
>> So, who is David Temple? You're going to hear a lot about him in this trial. He's
00:11:48
a man who nobody ever said no to. Kelly Seagler is Texas tough, but so is Temple's lawyer.
00:11:57
>> Like that. >> Dick Darren is famous for helping billionaire Robert Durst get acquitted
00:12:03
of murder. >> When I heard David Temple hired Dick Darren, I'm going, geez. >> The two lawyers have clashed many times
00:12:10
before. >> How do you describe her? >> They do not like each other. >> I can't trust her word.
00:12:19
David Temple did not kill his wife, Belinda Temple, and the evidence will show you that he did not.
00:12:27
>> But Seagler was confident and says the motive in this case is one of the oldest
00:12:32
in the book. >> It's true that David had an affair. That doesn't make him a murderer. Not only
00:12:39
did Temple cheat on his wife, but a year and a half after Belinda was killed, he
00:12:44
married the woman with whom he'd had the affair, Heather Scott. >> She was the reason why David Temple
00:12:52
finally made up his mind to end his marriage with Belinda by executing her. >> It doesn't look good. And that's what
00:12:58
the prosecutor harped on all during the trial. >> Darren's key witnesses were brothers who
00:13:04
lived directly behind Temple's house. I heard a loud boom boom. >> They were young boys when they told the
00:13:12
police they heard what sounded like a gunshot. >> How many times did you hear that?
00:13:18
>> One. >> Hello. >> The boys had started watching the movie Dr. Dittle A little after four. And nine
00:13:26
years later, they remembered the exact point in the film when they heard that sound.
00:13:31
>> Right there. >> Right here. Stop it here. Using that point as a time reference, the defense
00:13:35
figured they heard the boom around 4:30. And that is a critical time because David and his son Evan were seen on that
00:13:45
store security video at 4:32. >> When they heard the gunshot, David Temple was 6 miles away.
00:13:53
>> They were little kids and probably pretty impressionable. And who knows what they heard when they heard or why
00:13:59
they heard it. When we spoke to Kelly Seagler in 2008, she spelled out her theory of what happened, saying that
00:14:06
Temple murdered Belinda around 4:00 and then covered his tracks. >> David Temple made a sweep through the
00:14:13
house and made a an attempt to make the house look like it had been burglarized.
00:14:19
He broke the glass in the back door and then he took Evan and went to some places there in Katie to try and get
00:14:25
himself on videotape to alibi himself as quickly as he could. That plan failed, she says, when a witness who went to the
00:14:33
same high school as Temple said he saw him driving about a mile off the route. Temple said he drove that day, but close
00:14:40
to these rice fields. >> Well, what do you think he was doing out there? >> I think that's where he went to get rid
00:14:47
of the shotgun. >> But you never found the shotgun. >> Do you know how many rice fields there
00:14:50
are in Katy, Texas? And creeks and ponds. The evidence will show that David never
00:14:57
had a 12- gauge shotgun. >> Darren says the weapon wasn't found because Temple never had it. Police
00:15:04
zeroed in on Temple, he says, ignoring other potential suspects. >> The family had long suspected
00:15:12
uh this thug that lived next door and uh we just didn't have any proof of it. Riley Joe Sanders was a troubled
00:15:22
16-year-old who first claimed he'd been in school all day when in fact he was not. Belinda had told his parents he was
00:15:31
perpetually truent and she had tangled with him and his friends for leaving broken beer bottles in her yard.
00:15:39
>> I learned that he failed a series of polygraph tests on his knowledge of the murder. I learned that during the trial
00:15:48
for the first time. >> It also turned out that Sanders, seen here in 2008, had borrowed his father's
00:15:55
shotgun without permission. He had access to the kind of shotgun used in the used in the murder and he was in the
00:16:03
area when the murder took place and he had a history with Belinda Temple. >> Okay. He was a 16-year-old kid. Do you
00:16:11
really think a 16-year-old kid is going to walk into his neighbor lady's house, a teacher that he respected and did
00:16:18
like, and blow her brains out when she's carrying her nine-month-old daughter inside her body? Why in the world would
00:16:25
he do that? >> At trial, Seagler called Sanders as her last witness. He denied having anything
00:16:33
to do with the murder, but admitted skipping out of school that day and driving around the neighborhood with
00:16:39
friends, smoking pot. He said he got home around 4:30 and took a nap. >> He came down here voluntarily to walk
00:16:47
into a courtroom to face Dick Darren at that time, the meanest, baddest defense lawyer in the United States of America.
00:16:56
>> We're not required to prove who it was. We don't know who it was. In closing,
00:17:02
Darren told jurors that the boy next door was a better suspect than David Temple.
00:17:08
>> There's more evidence that it was Joe Sanders and his buddies than there is that it was David.
00:17:13
>> But Seagler said David Temple was the one with the motive. >> You better believe he was serious about
00:17:18
Heather. And you better believe he was done with Belinda in his mind. >> David Temple was convicted and sentenced
00:17:28
to life. Every ounce of error that you had in your body was just taken from you at one time.
00:17:33
>> Darren says he knows a lot more now than he did back then about Riley Joe Sanders
00:17:40
and about Kelly Seagler. >> How would you characterize Kelly Seagler's behavior in this trial?
00:17:46
>> Outrageous. >> I hate to admit that I was snookered, but I was. When David Temple stood trial, Steve
00:18:07
Clappard, the longtime investigator for the Harris County DA, did not know the case very well.
00:18:15
His only role in it was to drive Temple's neighbor, Riley Joe Sanders, to the airport and returned some property
00:18:24
to him. Kelly asked me to ship a shotgun back to him. He was living in Arkansas at the
00:18:31
time. >> But then 5 years later, a new witness got in contact with attorney Dick
00:18:40
Darren. >> We're on the record at 2:46 p.m. >> Daniel Glasscock, who knew Riley Joe
00:18:46
Sanders in high school, said he wanted to clear his conscience. He said back in 1999 he overheard Sanders talk about a
00:18:56
burglary that escalated. >> I remember him saying nobody was supposed to be there. Uh when he went
00:19:02
into the house as he went upstairs the dog attacked him. He shot the dog heard Belinda
00:19:11
put the dog in the closet and they panic and ran. >> It was confusing. The temple's dog was
00:19:17
not shot, >> but Glascock seemed to believe that dog was code for Belinda and that Sanders
00:19:26
could be involved in her murder. >> I really believe that an innocent man is sitting in prison for something he
00:19:35
didn't do. >> Darren gave Glascock's videotape statement to the district attorney's
00:19:40
office and investigator Steve Clappert was told to check it out. He said he panicked and ran.
00:19:46
>> Was it awkward to be investigating a case that your office had successfully prosecuted?
00:19:54
>> Yes. Clapper needed to know more about the case. So he read the old police reports,
00:20:06
all 1,319 pages, and he quickly became concerned. And what did you think when you read
00:20:15
that? >> I thought, "Wow, >> the name Riley Joe Sanders was all over the reports."
00:20:21
>> There he is again. There he is again. >> Sanders and his friends gave varying
00:20:27
accounts about where they were and what they were doing on the day Belinda died.
00:20:32
>> There he is again. Does that indicate to you that he might have been a suspect?
00:20:37
>> There was an extreme amount of interest in him. Clappert was obligated to give the
00:20:43
reports to Temple's new lawyers, Stanley Schneider and Casey Goro. And they say a
00:20:49
lot of what was in there was never seen before by the defense. >> Stuff was hidden. Who hid it?
00:20:56
>> Seagler hid it. Seagler hid it and she hid it. Well, >> for example, Dick Darren says
00:21:03
prosecutors hid information about this shotgun. It belonged to Riley Joe Sanders father. Sanders admitted in
00:21:11
court that before the murder, he took that gun without permission. Jurors did not hear that police were told one of
00:21:20
Sanders friends, Cody Ellis, had hidden the gun under his bed. >> And the fact that it's hidden, that's
00:21:28
evidence of guilt that you're hiding something. >> How a sheriff's deputy got a hold of
00:21:33
that gun is a mystery. The details of exactly how that deputy got the shotgun were unclear
00:21:40
all the way up until the trial. >> How can that be? >> Because the deputy didn't write a
00:21:44
supplement. >> Why not? >> I don't know. There was nothing sinister about it. >> Doesn't that seem odd to you?
00:21:50
>> It doesn't to me. No. >> Shotguns cannot be individually identified with ballistics. Seagler
00:21:56
claims the murder weapon was never found, but that shotgun had a lot of the same characteristics as the one that
00:22:04
killed Belinda. >> It was a 12 gauge. Has spent reloaded double buckshot shell in it.
00:22:10
>> It's the closest thing to a murder weapon law enforcement was ever able to find. And reloaded double buckshot shell
00:22:16
is pretty specific. It's pretty unique. >> It's the same gun that Clapper ended up
00:22:22
returning to Sanders after Temple's trial. Did you wonder about that weapon that
00:22:27
you sent back to Riley Joe Sanders? >> Yes, sir. It was a very sinking feeling. It still bothers me. It's something that
00:22:33
you can't undo. >> As Clappert scrutinized the reports, he became interested in another breakin
00:22:40
that happened just 9 days before Belinda's murder. Some of Sanders friends had gotten into a home by
00:22:48
smashing through glass, like the Temple Home. >> They had gone in and rifled through some
00:22:53
stuff. And so somebody had taken a CD player, turned it on his side, and left it sitting on the floor in the
00:22:59
>> like the TV in the temple case. >> In the TV in the temple case was the same kind of way.
00:23:03
>> One of the boys had a beef with the man who lived there. And Clappert wondered
00:23:08
if Riley Joe Sanders had a beef with Belinda and whether that could be a motive for him and his friends to break
00:23:16
into her home when they believed she wasn't there. >> They want to go mess things up. They
00:23:21
want to go steal a few things. They want to hurt rather than kill. >> Ronnie Joe Sanders had no involvement in
00:23:27
what happened to Belinda Temple. He was focused on and he was cleared. >> And what cleared him?
00:23:34
>> His own cooperation and truthfulness cleared him. >> That's all though, right?
00:23:38
>> Yes. >> Clappard says he sees nothing in those reports to definitively clear Sanders or
00:23:46
his friends. Sanders failed three polygraphs. Some of his friends failed, too. But the investigation, Clappard
00:23:55
says, just seemed to stall. >> Looked like they ran into a dead end. And then all of a sudden, it picked up
00:24:02
and it seemed like the entire focus was on David Temple. >> Guilty of murder. >> Guilty of murder.
00:24:13
>> Clappard says he wanted to pick up where investigators left off. He wanted to talk to Cody Ellis.
00:24:22
>> I wanted to ask him about the shotgun that he'd hidden for several days from Riley Joe Sanders. We know that they
00:24:29
were together the day of the murder. >> Did you ever get to ask him anything? >> No, sir.
00:24:33
>> Not one question? >> No. >> Clappard says his plans were derailed by other detectives,
00:24:40
including Dean Holt, one of the first on the scene. Clappard says they got to Ellis first and tipped him off about the
00:24:48
new investigation. What's more, Cody Ellis and Riley Joe Sanders both got lawyers who did not want them talking to
00:24:56
Clapper. Who found the lawyers? Kelly Seagler, who was no longer with the DA's office.
00:25:03
>> Have you ever done that before? >> Made sure someone had a lawyer. Yeah. It's a prosecutor's job to make sure
00:25:08
someone has a lawyer when you think they need a lawyer. Detectives also talked to
00:25:13
Daniel Glascock, the man who gave Darren that videotape statement. They made an audio tape of this interview.
00:25:21
>> A jury heard this thing. >> Okay. All 12 of them convicted him. >> What do you believe their goal was in
00:25:29
talking to Mr. Glascock? >> Break Mr. Glascock down. >> After 5 hours of talking, Glascock
00:25:35
wavered on a lot of the details. Darren, do not tell me, "Do not say this, do not
00:25:40
say that." But I just feel like words were being put in my mouth. >> When I heard that that witness not only
00:25:45
recanted, but that witness admitted that Dick Dear was the person who fed him the
00:25:52
details of the murder case. I was pretty disgusted. >> Clappert's new look at this old case was
00:26:02
not winning him friends in the office. People that I had known for many, many years would no longer talk to me.
00:26:09
>> But they would shun you. >> Yes. >> Like school kids. >> Yes. >> He called Kelly Seagler to explain what
00:26:18
was happening. >> He was crying on the phone apologizing for what it was he was doing to a
00:26:23
righteous conviction and investigation. >> Wasn't in tears. I was upset. My voice
00:26:28
cracks. >> What were you upset about? Well, you ever had the rug pulled out from
00:26:36
under you? I believed in that office. >> After 47 years in law enforcement, Clapper left the Harris County DA's
00:26:50
office in 2012. >> Do you believe David Temple is an innocent man? >> I believe that he did not kill his wife.
00:27:00
Now, Clappert would be a key player in getting a convicted killer a new day in court.
00:27:22
From day one, I knew that this day would come. In December 2014, after eight years in prison and after losing two
00:27:32
appeals, David Temple's luck changed. The process is in the right direction right now.
00:27:38
>> He was granted a new hearing to see if he got a fair trial or if he deserved a
00:27:45
new one. Attorneys Stanley Schneider and Casey Goro hope to prove that prosecutors hid
00:27:52
evidence from the defense, including police reports that focused on Riley Joe Sanders and his friends.
00:28:00
>> You have a young man who's interviewed on six different days, gives seven oral
00:28:05
statements, two written statements, and flunks three polygraph tests. >> Former prosecutor Kelly Seagler says
00:28:10
Temple's trial attorney Dick Darren got everything he was entitled to. Dick Darren might not have eyeballed with his
00:28:18
own eyes, the exact statement typed up in an offense report, but what Riley Joe Sanders had to say in all of those
00:28:25
statements, the meat of it was known to Dick Darren. >> And she says Darren got police reports
00:28:31
exactly when DA office policy said he should. That policy at the time was after an officer finished testifying,
00:28:40
right before Darren began his cross-examination, he could look at but not copy that officer's reports.
00:28:49
>> It was designed to keep Dick Darren with his hands tied behind his back. I don't
00:28:53
know how the hell you're supposed to do your job as a defense lawyer when you're
00:28:57
given that volume of information in the middle of trial. Some reports were 100 pages or longer,
00:29:05
and the defense never got to see reports written by officers who did not take the
00:29:10
stand. At Temple's new hearing, Seagler was called to testify, and she described how
00:29:18
information was doled out to the defense. You said I would give them all the discovery they were entitled to.
00:29:26
Piece by piece, very slowly and very miserably, they got what they were entitled to have. They got snippets,
00:29:34
bits and pieces. They never saw the whole police report. >> Even doing it the slow way. Every single
00:29:41
thing under the law Mr. Mr. Darren was entitled to was turned over to him. >> And who decided what was exculpatory?
00:29:49
the same as in any other case the prosecutor does. >> Sure. That's the way it works.
00:29:54
>> What the hell is that? >> Got disputes that Seagler handed over everything favorable to the defense. And
00:30:01
she says it all should have been disclosed before the trial. For example, all those reports about Sanders that
00:30:08
could be used to argue he made inconsistent statements. >> He was investigated. He was consistent.
00:30:16
He was cooperative. And I believe he was always very truthful. >> Well, he said that he went different
00:30:21
places in different statements. At one point he says that he saw David Temple's truck leaving the neighborhood. Another
00:30:26
time he says he didn't see David Temple's truck leaving the neighborhood. How's that consistent?
00:30:31
>> His story was pretty much consistent. >> This is not a minor point. You know this.
00:30:36
>> He said on second thought, it wasn't David Temple's truck. No, but but the Miss Seagler, you know that the devil's
00:30:44
in the details in these cases. And you know, in this case, he was pretty definitive the first time around.
00:30:50
>> Not really. >> Yes, he was. He described that truck with tinted windows and those special
00:30:54
wheels. >> True. It wasn't that definitive. >> It was pretty definitive. >> That's not the way I read it.
00:31:01
>> Defense attorneys say if jurors knew everything about Riley Joe Sanders, they
00:31:05
might have been more open to Temple's explanation of evidence. Like those shards of glass that police found so
00:31:13
incriminating. Attorney Stanley Schneider says they could have scattered when David came
00:31:19
charging through the door. >> If that door flung open and hits the hutch, it's going to fly off into the
00:31:26
living room. >> At the new hearing, Kelly Seagler spent 5 days on the stand. The former
00:31:35
prosecutor aggressively defended herself. It was very very repetitious and it seemed like it could have been a whole
00:31:44
lot more efficient. She was so just blasze about what she had hidden and why she had hidden it.
00:31:52
And I have my client David sitting next to me who lost his wife and his baby and
00:31:58
hasn't watched his son grow up and his family has gone bankrupt trying to get him out of prison. It broke my heart a
00:32:04
little bit and I didn't see that one coming. That was for damn sure. It breaks your heart a little bit now, I
00:32:09
think. >> Yeah, it does. >> In the middle of this new hearing, defense attorneys discovered some
00:32:17
evidence that never made it to court before. >> We're at the Katy High School. We're
00:32:22
conducting an interview in the investigation of Belinda Temple's death. >> Audioaped interviews conducted at
00:32:29
Belinda's school just 2 days after she died. >> A group of teachers were interviewed one
00:32:35
day in the gym. There was nothing of substance on any of those tapes in those interviews.
00:32:40
>> But Casey Goro says those tapes change everything. >> They would have decimated the state's
00:32:47
case. >> Seagler says Belinda was killed around 400 p.m. Cell phone records show she
00:32:53
made a call to David at 3:32, but they don't show where she was. A teacher who had been in a meeting with
00:33:01
Belinda gave police a clue. She left my office between 20 after 3 and 3:30. >> Uhhuh.
00:33:09
>> And you know, from what other people have said, she made a phone call to David.
00:33:14
>> Defense attorneys say if Belinda made that call from school at 3:32, it would
00:33:19
be all but impossible for her to have been home at 400 p.m. The time Seagler said she was killed. But Seagler says
00:33:27
the teacher was actually talking about a different phone call. She says she left
00:33:34
my office between 20 after 3 and 3:30. And you know, from what other people have said, she made a phone call to
00:33:40
David, >> which happened earlier that day. >> There's no indication that she's talking
00:33:44
about this any earlier. >> That's how I read it because they did have phone calls earlier that day.
00:33:49
>> She makes no reference of that. >> She doesn't say that it's happening later either. Y'all are reading into
00:33:53
that what you want to read into it. Temple's lawyers say if Belinda arrived home after 4, Temple would have had just
00:34:01
minutes to murder her, clean up, stage the scene, and get his young son to that store where they were seen on
00:34:11
surveillance footage. >> Kelly's timeline can't be David can't be the killer. 23 witnesses testified at the hearing,
00:34:21
including Daniel Glascock, who contacted Darren and spurred the reopening of this
00:34:27
case. He was called by the state. He continued to contradict himself and wound up in tears.
00:34:35
>> His eggs were scrambled so badly by all of those interviews. I mean, he's virtually useless as a witness anymore.
00:34:43
>> It was a lot for the judge to take in. And this judge is tough. Tough on defendants and very tough to read.
00:34:52
>> He didn't smile. He didn't frown. He didn't scowl. Nothing. Nothing. If David Temple doesn't get a new trial
00:35:14
and due process is dead in Texas and we should all just go home. >> David Temple's attorneys weren't sure
00:35:20
they had any chance at all with Judge Larry Gist as they waited for his opinion.
00:35:26
>> What I knew about Judge G was that he had a prison unit named after him. >> That could be bad.
00:35:31
>> You don't get a prison named after you by being pro-defense. >> And then in July 2015 came the news.
00:35:40
Judge Larry Gist said David Temple should get a new trial. Judge G listed facts, 36 facts favorable to the defense
00:35:49
that he said the state should have disclosed but didn't or disclosed too late to be of any use.
00:35:57
>> Seeing a judge that got to see all of this evidence say this man deserves a fair trial. He wasn't given one. that
00:36:03
mattered in ways that I still feel. >> This was the first good news David Temple's parents had heard in years.
00:36:15
>> What this whole case is about is this right here. At a press conference, attorneys Stanley Schneider and Casey
00:36:22
Goro. >> That's Steve over in the corner >> with Steve Clappert standing behind them
00:36:27
showed precisely how much information they say was withheld from the defense. >> This was never seen.
00:36:36
This is what was suppressed. >> Did you feel vindicated when you read the decision?
00:36:41
>> Certainly did. I certainly did. >> But Stanley Schneider was not ready to celebrate. at least not yet.
00:36:49
>> This is not a victory. Uh this this is just the first step. >> It was the first step because the
00:36:55
judge's opinion was a recommendation to a higher court, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, and that is where
00:37:04
David Temple's fate would be decided. >> How confident are you that the Court of
00:37:11
Criminal Appeals will order a new trial? >> I'm afraid to jinx it. I'm afraid to uh to hope too loudly.
00:37:23
>> Kelly Seagler was emphatic that she did follow the rules during Temple's trial.
00:37:29
>> Judge G findings when compared to what actually happened at trial with what the
00:37:35
witnesses testified to. His findings are incorrect. >> Judge G is just wrong. >> Yes, sir. He is
00:37:41
>> on 36 points. >> Yes, sir. He is. Not one thing that he enumerated is true. >> Not even one. Just because one judge
00:37:50
made these ridiculous findings that none of us can understand, he's not the final
00:37:54
say. The Court of Criminal Appeals is. Thank God. >> It was a long wait, but that final say
00:38:02
did come. In November 2016, in a split decision, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals agreed with Judge Gist, saying
00:38:12
the prosecutor's actions had enormous significance. Temple's conviction was overturned and the court granted his
00:38:21
request for a new trial. >> How you feeling? >> How you feeling, Mr. Temple? >> And after those nine years in prison,
00:38:28
David Temple was released at the end of December. And then you saw your family. >> And then I see my family one at a time.
00:38:39
>> And tell me what that was like. >> It's very long awaited. See my uh brothers.
00:38:49
>> You all right? >> My mom and dad. It's incredible to uh just have that touch and the affection that you've
00:38:59
wanted all that time and have not been able to have is a uh sweet sweet joy. >> You remember what you said to them?
00:39:11
>> Just how much I loved them. >> Remember what they said to you? >> How much they loved me. And they were
00:39:16
glad I was finally home. They've been waiting for 9 years. We caught up with Temple soon after his
00:39:34
release at his parents' house back in Katy. >> What kind of welcome home party did they
00:39:39
have for you? >> Absolutely. Just a great home-cooked meal. >> Heather was here and your son
00:39:44
>> Heather and Evan met here. By the time we got here with my brothers and my mom
00:39:47
and dad, they were here within five minutes. So, it was a great night. >> Temple's son, Evan, grew from a boy into
00:39:55
a young man while David was in prison. They remained close. Evan was raised by Temple's second wife, Heather, during
00:40:03
those years, and they have both asked for privacy. David Temple may have had his conviction
00:40:11
overturned, but he is still charged with Belinda's murder. And Belinda's family says they still believe David is
00:40:20
responsible for her death. >> Do you want to say anything to them? >> I just pray for their peace and that's
00:40:28
where I'm at right now. And I pray that for them every day. This was a a very shocking case
00:41:32
for someone to come into somebody's house, stab two people and kill someone. We want to get the bad guy.
00:41:40
>> Who is this? >> Sammy Geller. >> The Geller case is one that's kind of haunted us for 20 years now. The biggest
00:41:50
problem I think we have is really trying to figure out why it happened. >> This cold case could be solved tonight.
00:41:58
So, listen carefully. Detectives need more evidence and it could come from you. Maybe you know some of the
00:42:05
suspects, or maybe you'll just notice a vital clue to this brutal murder that investigators somehow missed.
00:42:16
It was spring break. The town was full of people. >> The weather was awesome. >> Well, on March 20th, 1994, Amy Gellard
00:42:27
and her parents um attended a church service in Merit Island. I see Amy at church
00:42:34
and she says, "I'll be home soon." We go home and we're early. The parents returned home. Unknown to
00:42:42
them, there was an intruder in the residence. >> I see the man step into the room and
00:42:47
he's completely disguised. And then I saw that he had a dagger and a gun. Basically, we had to crawl through here
00:42:59
on our hands and knees and he took us to this area right here. >> He was pacing.
00:43:10
>> He was going out this door here. >> They had offered money. They had offered cars. Uh they made all these offerings
00:43:20
just to kind of get rid of him. >> Why remain there? Why keep looking out? I sensed and Bob sensed that he was
00:43:27
waiting for a ride and I saw the lights coming down the driveway. He panicked. Something switched in him and he just
00:43:40
lost it. First he slices me across here. He stabbed me uh here and he starts stabbing me in my neck.
00:43:55
And it's going in so deep. I can feel the bones crunching. That sound of my bones. To this day, 20
00:44:03
years later, I can hear those bones crunch. >> Do you think he thought he had killed
00:44:08
you? >> Mhm. Yeah. As soon as the lights hit, man, he came down with a knife in the back of my head
00:44:15
as hard as he could. If I don't get to the front door and start screaming, no one's going to get out of that house
00:44:20
alive. >> 911 emergency. My name is Bob Leighton. >> What's the problem, sir? >> Simpson ambulances. We've been multiple
00:44:27
times by one. >> You're bleeding very badly. >> I'm bleeding badly. >> And what happened to the intruder?
00:44:33
>> He fled on foot. >> At that moment, Bob, you think the only two people are hurt are you and Bunny?
00:44:42
>> The suspect came across Amy, who was standing in the driveway behind her car,
00:44:47
and of course, without warning, she was stabbed. I remember getting to the hospital
00:44:56
a pastor that I knew coming in and saying to me, "Amy didn't make it." No, no, this can't be happening.
00:45:10
>> Any case that's open, we want to close. It's the only closure you get for the
00:45:14
family. I'm Aaron Morardi. Tonight on 48 hours, cold case. Who killed Amy Gallard?
00:45:51
There's no day more difficult for Bunny Leighton than March 20th. >> Just a bad day all the way around.
00:46:02
>> The anniversary of her daughter's murder. >> I always think about tomorrow. Life will be better.
00:46:16
Bunny hasn't let fear force her out of her home, but continues to grieve along with her husband Bob and her two sons,
00:46:25
Amy's older brothers, Mark and Ryan. >> It does doesn't end, man. It It keeps on
00:46:34
going. It's been tough and I think it's just changed us all profoundly as a family
00:46:43
and individually. >> It's hard to think about it, isn't it? >> When you first started on this case, did
00:46:57
you think it would be solved right away? >> We always think that. Back in 1994, Todd
00:47:04
Goodyear was one of the investigators called to the crime scene. >> You've got a wellrespected family that
00:47:09
is living in a in a nice house in a quiet area and all of a sudden somebody breaks in and then something sets him
00:47:16
off and he starts to stab them and it's a blitz attack. >> Goodyear says when Amy's stepfather ran
00:47:22
out to get help, his attacker followed. Bob didn't see Amy standing by her car, but the intruder did.
00:47:31
He turns his attention to Amy and goes to attack her. >> The slash marks on her backpack indicate
00:47:37
a struggle with her killer. >> Amy actually runs across the street toward a an apartment complex and she
00:47:44
actually collapses in that parking lot and dies. >> Yes. Probably the prevailing view when we
00:47:58
first got it is we're going to figure out real quickly what the motive is and it's going to lead us to a person and
00:48:03
we're going to find that person and they're going to confess. We're going to be done.
00:48:13
>> But more than 20 years later, Major Goodyear was still trying to solve Amy Gellard's murder. There was a lot of
00:48:21
pressure put on to solve it and a lot of people were were upset about it and still are to this day.
00:48:25
>> We asked Goodyear and his cold case team, Lieutenant Carlos Reyes and detectives Marlon Bugs and Wayne Simok
00:48:34
to explain one of the most baffling cases they've ever encountered. >> I've never worked a case like this with
00:48:43
this many possibilities that have been out there. >> This is what investigators do know.
00:48:49
the weapons. The intruder was armed with an unusual gun and a knife. >> He's not cursing and he's not screaming
00:49:00
at us. And then all of a sudden, he's just stabbing the living daylights out of me.
00:49:06
>> The Leighton say the knife was a dagger resembling this police sketch. Because
00:49:11
the intruder was holding it, all they could see was the ornate hilt. And that was very unusual because it was a gold
00:49:18
chain that was basically, you know, interwound or twisted together. >> The dagger has never been found. And
00:49:26
have you ever been able to find one that seemed to match? >> Not with the >> Not with the hilt like that. No. And we
00:49:32
always have to put out a thing. The knife may not look exactly like that, but if someone knows somebody that has
00:49:37
one like that, that would be really important. >> As for the gun, it turned out not to be
00:49:42
a lethal weapon at all. Investigators were able to identify it when a magazine was found at the scene. It's actually a
00:49:50
prop made by Brixia. It fires blanks and is used in the theater and movies. >> It sure looks real.
00:49:57
>> If you had that put in your face, you'd believe it was a gun. >> But isn't that a good clue?
00:50:02
>> You would think it would be. Everybody goes, "Oh, Cocoa Beach Theater. Boom. Here we This is going to be solved." And
00:50:08
then you go there. Oh, no. We're not missing one. No reports of anyone stealing the gun like that. So yeah,
00:50:13
that ended up being pretty much, you know, for us a dead end at the time, which was very deflating.
00:50:19
>> The intruder, >> he had a black ski mask on. >> Bob and Bunny were interviewed by
00:50:31
investigators 12 days after being attacked. He had on a black top, black pants, white tennis shoes, and those
00:50:39
gloves that have the leather on the the hands. >> A black ski mask and gloves. Items that
00:50:47
would not be easy to obtain in Cocoa Beach, Florida during spring break. >> If you're going to kill them, you don't
00:50:54
need to mask because they're not going to be able to identify you anyway. So, is it someone they knew or was it
00:50:58
somebody from the area that somebody might recognize if they saw them? The intruders characteristics.
00:51:10
The latens couldn't identify their asalent, but they could remember a few features.
00:51:15
>> Who's Caucasian? I think I picked that up on the contrast between the ski mask
00:51:19
and his eyes. >> He was in his 20s. Did the voice seem familiar in any way that you had ever
00:51:26
heard it before? But Bunny says what she was struck by was his accent. >> I was very familiar with, you know,
00:51:35
Maryland, Pennsylvania kind of area because that's what he sounded like to me. >> Another clue.
00:51:41
>> I'm told to lay over him like this. >> The intruder forced Bunny and Bob to lay
00:51:47
on the ground in this position. >> When he put me on my stomach, I could not move. I was stuck. Investigators say
00:51:55
it's a technique used to control captives and suggests the intruder may have had some kind of military training
00:52:03
or police background. >> Police background could have gone to an academy, could have been a security
00:52:07
guard. >> As for forensic evidence, DNA was found on the guns magazine, but it may not be
00:52:14
from the intruder. >> Part of the problem you have is that we know the intruder was wearing gloves.
00:52:20
So, if there's DNA, it could belong to whoever handed him. Could be >> that item
00:52:24
>> could be or someone that had owned the item beforehand or someone that had had
00:52:29
used it with them. >> But the biggest question looming for investigators is why. Does anybody know
00:52:36
at this table why that intruder came into the home on March 20th, 1994? >> Specific motive? No.
00:52:45
>> And without answering that question, it makes it really tough to to get to the
00:52:49
right person. They all agree the evidence points to a targeted attack. >> Could it be money?
00:52:56
>> How many of you believe that the purpose of this was a burglary? >> You're not sure?
00:53:03
>> No. >> While the house is near the beach and one of the nicest on the block, investigators say that a burglar would
00:53:13
have just stolen property and fled and this intruder stayed. Strangers still the late and say money seemed almost an
00:53:20
afterthought to him. He took just a small amount of cash and some credit cards and seemed even less interested in
00:53:27
valuables. >> My wife had over $5,000 with German right in front of me. >> Then investigators wondered if Bunny and
00:53:35
Bob, both therapists, had been targeted by an angry patient. But there was little evidence to support that.
00:53:43
>> If you're going to hurt the couple that's there, why wait? Why not take care of business ahead of time and then
00:53:49
leave there? Why does he wait until Amy shows up? >> And that leaves Amy. Do you think then
00:53:57
Amy was a target or the reason why that intruder was in the house? >> Today I do. This case is ongoing. It
00:54:06
keeps developing. So ask me again in six months. I might have a different answer.
00:54:21
I have a hard time thinking that this is a random act. The consensus tends to be that that
00:54:27
Amy's the catalyst. There's something there with Amy or that probably caused this to happen.
00:54:37
>> What was it about Amy that would make her the target? At the time of her murder, she had just turned 21. And what
00:54:45
were you thinking on that birthday? >> She's happy. We're happy. This is good. >> Her whole life seemed ahead of her.
00:54:59
Amy was living at home with her mother and stepfather. Passionate about music, she got a job at the church her parents
00:55:07
attended, working as a sound engineer in Calvary Chapel's recording studio. >> She had always wanted to be a roadie for
00:55:16
a rock and roll band. God's sense of humor. She ended up being a roadie for the Calvary Chapel's rock
00:55:25
and roll Christian praise band. >> Did you think all the problems were over? Did you? I did.
00:55:33
>> Amy had been through a lot in her 21 years. She was three when her parents divorced. Amy and her two older brothers
00:55:40
live with their mother in Cocoa Beach, Florida. And how close were Mark, Ryan, and Amy?
00:55:48
>> They were thickest thieves. There wasn't anything they didn't share, and they
00:55:53
stayed that way always. >> She was just an incredibly good person. Amy's brother Ryan says whatever he and
00:56:00
Mark did she wanted to do. Even skydiving. >> Gutsy. >> Yeah. >> Feisty >> could be. She had a lot of life in her.
00:56:15
She's kind of the perfect friend, perfect sister. >> Amy was five when her mom married Bob
00:56:20
Leighton. And then not long after her life changed when she became seriously ill with encphilitis
00:56:28
that left her with learning disabilities. >> Oh, she struggled so much and she was
00:56:33
held back a year and that changed a lot of things in her life. >> By her freshman year in high school, she
00:56:41
met Andrea Odell. They became best friends. >> She was the most special person I've
00:56:47
ever met. She had an essence about her, a presence about her. >> Amy was also a typical teenager,
00:56:55
rebelling against her mom. >> Bunny wanted kind of a girly girl, and Amy was not a girly girl, and I think
00:57:03
Amy kind of wanted to flaunt any rebelliousness in her mother's face and to push it even.
00:57:10
>> And like so many of her classmates, Amy was experimenting with drugs. She was
00:57:16
smoking pot a lot. >> I'd say more than was healthy. >> She was not a weekend warrior, somebody
00:57:22
who just smoked some dope on the weekends. She was somebody who would sell her soul for pot and that's how she
00:57:29
got in trouble. >> Bonnie put Amy in a tough, controversial rehab program known as Strait. There was
00:57:40
no swimming pool, nice lounge kind of drug rehab. >> She didn't go to rehab by choice.
00:57:47
>> She blame your mother. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> In 1992, Amy returned home, seemingly a
00:57:55
new person. >> Had she changed any? >> She still seemed like Amy, but she had a better head on her shoulders.
00:58:02
Definitely. >> It refocused her and had her start thinking about what she wanted to do
00:58:08
thereafter. She had a new group of friends from church. >> I think they were really good influences
00:58:13
on her and I think she actually really enjoyed them. >> In the days leading up to Amy's murder
00:58:18
in March of 1994, spring break crowds were descending up and down the Florida coast. Ryan was
00:58:26
also home from college. >> Overall, what I remember from that week is her being in a pretty good state of
00:58:31
mind and just seemingly doing as well as I'd seen her do in a really long time. Sometime after 7:30 on the night of the
00:58:40
murder, Amy headed to church where she saw her parents for the last time. There was no premonition that anything
00:58:52
was wrong. Nothing like that. I get a phone call said that my sister had been murdered,
00:59:06
that my parents were in the hospital. I didn't look too good. >> What was your first thought, Ryan?
00:59:12
>> My first thought was I just couldn't believe it. >> It just didn't make sense.
00:59:22
And 20 years later, with the investigators renewed focus on the case, the family hopes to finally have some
00:59:29
answers. >> I think it's solvable. I just think that it's going to take the the right piece of evidence
00:59:40
and the right person to be willing to talk about it. I mean, when this happened in Cocoa
01:00:04
Beach, people were numb. They couldn't believe it. >> I remember there was a lot of press from
01:00:08
it. It was on the news. County also called in FDLE and the FBI >> when 21-year-old Amy Gellard was
01:00:15
brutally murdered in March of 1994. Marlon Bugs was the same age and a cadet at the police academy.
01:00:24
>> So to hear about someone being stabbed to death in this big murder scene and that was a big deal.
01:00:30
It never occurred to him that more than 20 years later, he'd be asked to use fresh eyes to finally solve the case
01:00:38
that has stymied so many of his colleagues. >> I read through this case on a daily
01:00:43
basis. >> Major, you got a minute? >> I run it by my partners. It's a discussion at lunch that we have.
01:00:49
>> We just wanted to get a brand new perspective on it. >> This case, there's so many questions
01:00:54
>> and over the years, so many suspects. >> There's a lot Most cases you may have one primary
01:01:03
suspect, maybe a couple peripheral suspects, but in this one there's many possibilities.
01:01:08
>> Like Jeffrey Anderson, a burglar currently in prison. He was involved in a police chase the day after Amy was
01:01:16
murdered. When he was caught, he was in a stolen car. And later, when Bunny Leighton's credit cards were found on
01:01:24
the side of the road in the vicinity, he became a suspect. polygraph wasn't picked out in the voice lineup. Can't
01:01:31
totally say 100%, but you feel more more likely than not he wouldn't be the guy.
01:01:36
>> And police couldn't link him to those credit cards. And there was Hugh Pppel.
01:01:42
At one time, he had a romantic relationship with Amy. He didn't become a suspect until 2013,
01:01:50
almost 19 years after the crime, when a tip came in to Crimeline. Hugh PPP had been killed in a hit-and-run accident.
01:01:58
There was a comment made that it was karma for what he had done to Amy Gellard. >> While there's no physical evidence
01:02:05
connecting him to Amy's murder, Papa remains on the list of suspects. And there are others much higher on
01:02:13
Marlon Bug's list that he and Wayne Simok want to track down and rein. >> That's Dominic. His name keeps popping
01:02:22
up. Around the time of Amy's death, Dominic Kuka was a 22-year-old short order cook from Pennsylvania
01:02:30
who had recently moved to Cocoa Beach with his high school girlfriend, Julie Flounders. But investigators didn't
01:02:37
learn about Kuka until more than a year later when they got a tip from someone who worked with Julie.
01:02:44
>> She overheard Dominic's girlfriend saying that he was possibly involved with that homicide.
01:02:50
Investigators then learned Kuka had stolen a car and left the area the day after Amy's murder. He later moved back
01:02:59
to Pennsylvania where investigators tracked him down and he told them a startling story.
01:03:06
>> Don puts himself at the scene. >> Kuka claimed that he was coming home from work when he drove past Amy's
01:03:12
house. He sees all the lights and the cop cars and the fire trucks and he actually stops, pulls over and walks up
01:03:21
to see what's going on. >> He was just being a concerned citizen just happened to be driving by their
01:03:26
stops and assist the deputy in putting up the crime scene tape, which is I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm
01:03:32
saying it's unheard of. >> And his story didn't check out when investigators went to the restaurant
01:03:37
where Kuka worked. >> They pulled his time card from Gatsby's and he didn't work that night.
01:03:43
Suddenly they had another person on their list. >> That kind of put him as a very important
01:03:49
person of interest at that time >> and Kuka kept looking better and better. >> He had just moved down here from
01:03:56
Pennsylvania, only been in the area for maybe a couple months at the most. >> So Kuka would be one of the few people
01:04:03
in Cocoa Beach who could have cold weather gear like masks and gloves. >> And so I believe he had those items with
01:04:10
him. And coming from Pennsylvania, he had that mid-Atlantic accent that Amy's mom
01:04:17
described hearing. >> I was very familiar with, you know, Maryland, Pennsylvania kind of area
01:04:23
because that's what he sounded like to me. >> For reasons that aren't clear, a voice
01:04:28
lineup was never done, but he was given a polygraph and Kuka failed it. Still, >> investigators couldn't connect Kuka
01:04:38
either to Amy or her murder. They couldn't find any mutual friends and there wasn't any physical evidence that
01:04:45
put him inside the house and so the trail went cold until 2014. >> It's game time.
01:04:53
>> This was the driver's license that he had most currently after incident. Now,
01:04:58
the new team, Marlon Bugs and Wayne Simok, are retracing steps made by earlier investigators and have gone to
01:05:06
Pennsylvania, hoping to question Dominic Kuka. It's hard to get your hopes up, right, that
01:05:13
you might have the right suspect. Cuz there have been other suspects in the past that looked really good in this
01:05:18
case. >> They haven't. >> This right now is probably the strongest one. But before they take their chances with
01:05:24
Kuka, they decide to make a surprise stop at the home of that old girlfriend who
01:05:31
allegedly had been overheard talking about Kuka's involvement in Amy's murder. Julie Flounders,
01:05:39
>> I'm hoping she's been waiting to get this off her chest and when we show up at the door, that's her opportunity.
01:05:44
Originally, she denied saying it, but Marlin hopes that Julie, now married with children,
01:05:51
may have additional information that will help. >> So, we want to take a shot at her.
01:05:56
>> And much to their surprise. She invites him in and is more than willing to talk
01:06:01
about Kuka. How did Julie describe him? Didn't she describe him as crazy? >> She said he could go both ways.
01:06:08
>> He could go both ways. >> Nice guy, not nice guy. >> But that fits. >> Oh, absolutely. that fits this intruder.
01:06:15
>> He's also a convicted thief. >> And when you talk about the thievery part of it, would Dominic steal from
01:06:22
somebody or break into a home? Well, on that case, yeah. >> She also did say that he he had a
01:06:28
propensity to have knives >> and there's his military training. >> Now, Dominic Kuka was in the Marine
01:06:36
Corps boot camp just previous to this. And you know, one of the things he learned how to do was fight with a
01:06:42
knife. But unfortunately, after two decades, Julie's memories about that specific
01:06:49
March night have faded. >> The key information that needed from her, she couldn't remember.
01:06:55
>> When first questioned, Kuka told investigators he was driving Julie's Jeep on the night of the murder.
01:07:02
>> She can't remember if he had a Jeep or not. >> And said he told Julie about being at
01:07:07
the crime scene. Did she remember him saying that he had been at this scene of a horrific murder?
01:07:15
>> She that she doesn't remember. >> She doesn't remember that. >> And what about her comment that her
01:07:20
boyfriend may have been involved in Amy Gellard's murder. For years, Julie denied saying it, but
01:07:30
she told these investigators that she might have said it in justest, but still denies Kuka ever confessed to murder. We
01:07:39
also wanted to talk with Julie Flounders, and she agreed to sit down and tell us what she knew about Kuka
01:07:45
back in Cocoa Beach in 1994. But in the end, all we got was an empty chair. Julie Flounder says she's too afraid of
01:07:53
him. Next stop is 280 miles away in Marianville, Pennsylvania, where Dominic Kuka is serving time for drug
01:08:07
possession and robbery. >> At the moment, we still don't know. You know, how's he going to receive us?
01:08:12
What's he going to say? And we just got some high hopes right now that uh that he's going to talk to us.
01:08:30
You don't want to say the wrong thing. You don't want them to shut down. >> So, uh, yeah, I got some butterflies.
01:08:37
>> There's a lot riding on this trip to Marianville, Pennsylvania. Wayne Simok and Maron Bugs need to
01:08:44
convince Dominic Kuka to talk about Amy Gellard's murder. might be our last shot
01:08:50
at having an opportunity to talk to him. >> As it turns out, Kuka agrees to talk,
01:08:56
but he has nothing new to say. >> He had this strange confidence about him. He still puts himself at the scene,
01:09:04
but he continually claims that he has no involvement. He says, "How could I do that?" He, "I'm just an addict."
01:09:10
>> Kuka is now in prison for robbing a pharmacy. >> As long as we let him just ramble on
01:09:16
about what he wanted to tell us, he was real comfortable. When we started asking
01:09:19
questions about the case, he got real defensive. >> After three hours, the investigators
01:09:29
head home to Florida disappointed. >> You know, it'd be great to come up here and try to clear this up, but right now,
01:09:36
I think we're leaving with more questions than answers. >> But they're not through with Kuka yet.
01:09:42
They wonder if he may be somehow connected to the man who has topped their suspect list for more than 20
01:09:49
years. Who is the number one suspect? >> In my mind here, >> that's Scott Manley
01:09:56
>> back in 1995. >> Back in 1994, >> Scott Manley, a friend of Amy's, became a suspect within hours of her murder.
01:10:05
>> When you start looking for that motive, you know, you start thinking who had access to a home. Scott Manley.
01:10:13
On the evening of March 20th, Manley stopped by Amy's house. >> Scott Manley was probably the last one
01:10:21
of her friends to be in her home. >> Manley told police he had plans to go out with Amy later that night after she
01:10:29
got home from church, but he never made it. He left this message on Amy's answering
01:10:36
machine. >> Scott, it's like 9:30. It's too late to go out. I'll give you a ring. I'm about
01:10:42
to land this week. >> Just 30 minutes after she had been stabbed to death. >> We all like to say there's no
01:10:49
coincidence in homicide investigation, which it's kind of strange. All of a sudden, just after she's killed, there's
01:10:54
a phone message from him saying, "Hey, it's too late to go out." There's a lot of things that make him very
01:10:59
interesting. >> By all accounts, Scott Manley was a handsome bad boy. People describe him
01:11:05
even back then as a con artist >> and a serious cocaine addict. Amy met him in rehab. Two and a half years
01:11:15
older, he was also from Cocoa Beach. And when they both left the straight program, they tried to stay clean.
01:11:22
>> I don't think he was successful. He was still a drug addict. >> There were more attempts at rehab in New
01:11:28
Jersey and Pennsylvania. When he returned home in the fall of 1993, Manley started using crack cocaine
01:11:37
again. He also reconnected with Amy, which greatly concerned her brother Ryan. >> I knew Scott wasn't a great influence
01:11:45
for her. That wasn't a relationship I was very happy about. >> Was she completely clean when she
01:11:50
returned back? >> She was smoking pot again. I knew that she had some people from straight that
01:11:56
she was getting it from. As investigators discovered, Amy felt caught between two worlds. Her new
01:12:03
friends at church and the wilder crowd she once hung out with in Cocoa Beach. >> I think she was trying to make good for
01:12:11
herself. It's almost like the angel and and the devil on each side. You know, one side pulling her one way and one
01:12:16
side pulling her the other way. Just days before she was killed, Amy asked her brother Ryan to drive with her
01:12:26
to the apartment complex where Manley lived with his parents. She needed to get something from him.
01:12:32
The whole thing just didn't make me feel very comfortable. Why is she hanging out
01:12:35
with this guy? Why is she asking me to go over there and do this? What What's going on here? This just doesn't feel
01:12:40
right. >> Marlin Bugs wonders if Amy brought her brother because she was afraid of
01:12:45
Manley. She has friends that say that Scott actually owed her money because they put their money together to
01:12:50
purchase drugs. And even Scott Manley himself talks about owing Amy money. >> The morning after Amy was killed, Manley
01:12:57
showed up at the Cocoa Beach police station to explain why he left that phone message cancelling his date with
01:13:04
Amy. >> At the time, it really was no reason to suspect anything. >> But the more Manley talked, the more
01:13:12
lies investigators uncovered. He told them the reason he stopped by Amy's house was to pay her back $30.
01:13:20
His father not only drove him there, he gave Manley the cash, but it wasn't the whole story. Later on, he admits that he
01:13:29
pocketed the money, that he didn't give the money to Amy. Um, that it was a ploy.
01:13:34
>> A scam to get money from his father to buy drugs. Manley says he then spent the evening
01:13:40
alone driving around smoking crack cocaine. And then there was Manley's claim that
01:13:46
he and Amy were going out that night. But Amy's best friend, Andrea Odell, disputes that
01:13:53
>> we had plans the night she died. We had plans to go for a walk on the beach. >> Does it make sense that she would have
01:13:59
said something to Scott that she'd also meet him later? >> No. >> He continually lies.
01:14:06
Everything is a lie. >> Still, Manley claimed to have an alibi. He said he was home before 900 p.m. and
01:14:16
his parents backed him. What's more, none of Amy or her parents' blood was found in Manley's car. If that had been
01:14:25
Scott and he stabbed somebody, wouldn't there had to be blood in that car? >> You would think so.
01:14:31
>> And these photos of his hands show no signs of a struggle. You say you can't get Scott Manley out of your head. Why
01:14:38
has he never been arrested? There's no hardcore evidence that we can just link to Scott Manley, so that makes it
01:14:45
difficult. >> Manley couldn't stay out of trouble. In 1995, after another failed rehab in
01:14:53
Colorado, Manley was accused of kidnapping his girlfriend's young child, all to get money for drugs. Breard
01:15:00
County detectives traveled there in 1996 to question him about Amy Gellard's murder. It hurts me
01:15:09
to think that I'm even, you know, I'm even considered to know something, you know.
01:15:14
>> And he agreed to take this polygraph. >> Regarding the death of Amy Geller, you
01:15:19
know for sure who? >> No. Did you participate in planning a burglary at Amy Geller's house that
01:15:25
eventually led to her death? >> No. >> And he doesn't do so well on it. But then again, he keeps changing the story.
01:15:32
>> In fact, Manley failed the polygraph. By 2005, he was in trouble again. This time in Florida for robbery.
01:15:47
He remains on the top of the list of possible killers of Amy Gellard. >> There is something that I feel that he's
01:15:54
connected with this somehow, whether he told somebody the layout of the house or
01:15:59
the fact that Amy's parents weren't home. um the fact that she comes from money.
01:16:05
>> Now, these investigators are wondering if perhaps Manley had an accomplice, >> which brings them back to Dominic Kuka.
01:16:14
On the night Amy was killed, Manley said he was driving around looking to buy crack cocaine from a white guy with a
01:16:21
northern accent named Nick. Could Nick be Dominic? Could you find any connection between
01:16:33
Scott Manley and Dominic Kuk? >> In the more than 20 years that investigators have struggled to find
01:16:50
Amy's killer, two names keep coming up. I keep coming back to Scott Manley and Dominic Kuka.
01:17:00
>> One theory is that both men were involved. Did Amy have something they wanted? Money or drugs?
01:17:08
>> You know what? If Scott came across Dominic at some point and talked Dominic into doing this, they're both having
01:17:16
this addiction to drugs. They're both needing money. Remember, Dominic Kuka places himself at the scene, and
01:17:22
investigators have wondered if the plan was for Kuka to break into the house while Scott Manley drove the getaway
01:17:30
car. >> Did get dropped off by Scott Manley and then Scott was going to circle around
01:17:35
and pick him back up. >> When Bunny and Bob came home from church early, the plan may have fallen apart.
01:17:42
Could Manley have abandoned Kuka, leaving him in the lurch? that would fit with the Leighton's description of the
01:17:49
masked intruder. >> He seemed nervous. He was just pacing the room. >> He acted like he was waiting for a ride,
01:17:57
that the person had left him high and dry, and he was waiting for that person to come back.
01:18:02
>> Each man denies knowing the other, but investigators uncovered a possible link.
01:18:08
Gatsby's restaurant, where Dominic worked as a cook and where Scott, according to his dad, had a job
01:18:16
interview. They eventually tracked down a waitress there who identified Manley's
01:18:21
photo. >> She picked Scott Manley out as being someone she thought came in looking for
01:18:26
Dominic at one point. >> That's the closest connection you can make between these two men
01:18:31
>> as of right now. >> Yes. >> And then there's Scott Manley's own admission to police.
01:18:38
that the night of the murder, he was looking for a drug dealer named Nick. But Kuka's former girlfriend, Julie,
01:18:46
says that Dominic went by the nickname Dom, not Nick. We reached out to Scott Manley and he
01:18:53
agreed to an interview, but as we were heading to the prison where he was being held on that robbery charge, he suddenly
01:19:01
backed out. Still, we have letters Scott Manley wrote. one in which he says, "Please, please find whoever's
01:19:10
responsible for Amy's death." But it's what he didn't say in these letters that caught investigators attention.
01:19:18
>> He never really denies involvement. >> We asked Major Todd Goodyear to look at
01:19:24
Manley's letters with an analysis technique used by law enforcement. You you can't file charges on Scott
01:19:33
Manley based on anything in these letters. How does it help? >> What's an investigative tool?
01:19:38
>> Manley writes, "The fact that anyone thought it possible that I could be part
01:19:43
of such a horrible crime nauseated me." >> Most people would say, "I find it reprehensible. I find it unbelievable
01:19:51
that anyone's thinks that I could kill her." >> Yes. >> Because I didn't. That would be a very
01:19:57
strong statement that says, "I didn't do it." And instead, >> this is not an I didn't do it. This is a
01:20:02
I can't believe anybody thinks I could be part of this. >> Goodyear is also intrigued by this line
01:20:07
that Manley and Amy planned to go out when she returned home from church. >> To me, it kind of signifies they were
01:20:14
going to go out on some type of a social or semiate. And then later on in the letter, he talks about he was supposed
01:20:20
to go there for a meeting. >> Had I not cancelled our meeting, could I have helped or saved Amy? That word
01:20:27
meeting means something to you because it could lead to motive. >> Could because a meeting is business.
01:20:34
>> That's why Goodyear wonders if that meeting involved drugs. >> I've always thought that he was
01:20:40
involved. >> But suspicion isn't enough. DNA found on the Guns magazine doesn't match Scott Manley, Dominic Kuka, or any
01:20:53
other known suspect. It's It's still a track. It's not one of our suspects, but it's somebody that's linked to them.
01:21:00
It's still a good thing. >> Is Dominic Kuka still a suspect? >> I would say yeah, he's still a suspect
01:21:07
because we can't clear him out. >> And Scott Manley is still a suspect. >> We can't connect him definitively to it.
01:21:13
And then again, we can't clear him. >> Investigators concede that Amy's killer could be someone who's not even on their
01:21:22
radar. But there's no statute of limitations for murder. So they hope scientific
01:21:28
technology or some new tip will be key to solving this case. >> In cases like this, anything can be
01:21:36
important. >> We know this case is solvable. I think that people are holding on to
01:21:43
information. They don't think it's significant, but it is. It means everything to us.
01:21:51
Amy means everything to us. I I'm not into vengeance. I'm into justice. I want justice to be served.
01:22:53
We were a bunch of women who came from all over the world to Seoul in 1988 to teach English.
01:23:00
Korea was transforming and opening up its doors to the west. The 1988 Olympics really represented
01:23:10
South Korea debut on the world stage. We were helping teach English to Koreans so that they were prepared for the new
01:23:18
world coming into their peninsula. It was an interesting time. It was a dangerous time.
01:23:34
There was Sandra. She took me under her wing and we definitely bonded. Kathy Patrick. She was the head teacher, kind
01:23:43
of our boss. I was definitely a party girl. And then there was Carolyn Ael. She was
01:23:53
sparkly. She was beautiful, really funny. She had a wicked sense of humor. My sister Carolyn was an adventure.
01:24:04
People did notice her. She was vibrant. She attracted people's attention. She had become friends with all of us,
01:24:12
but particularly with Kathy. They were like sisters. Life that year was great. We had so much
01:24:20
fun. We worked hard. We played hard. We partied at night. Everything was going so well.
01:24:29
All our fun came to a sudden crashing halt when one of us, Carolyn Ael, was murdered.
01:24:40
It was absolutely horrible, brutal, violent. There are multiple stab wounds. I can't even begin to describe what that
01:24:50
loss has been. Like somebody had detonated a nuclear bomb in the middle of the family.
01:24:58
>> So, whoever killed Carolyn is still out there. We're at Newark airport about to head
01:25:06
overseas to try to find some answers. What happened to this woman? Carolyn Ael. >> And where did Carolyn live?
01:25:19
>> Carolyn lived over there. Um, >> out in this direction here. >> Out in this direction.
01:25:25
>> I've been asking questions for 30 years. What happened the night that Carolyn was
01:25:33
killed? >> Everybody loved Carolyn. >> Who was in the room? >> Who put the knife in?
01:25:46
>> Why should anybody be able to get away with murdering somebody and never face charges?
01:25:59
More than 30 years later, our investigation has brought us here to a university in Bellingham, Washington,
01:26:06
where Carolyn Abel's alleged killer works. We just got word. We're going to make our move now. Okay, this is the
01:26:14
building. >> We were so sure the enemy was on the outside. It never occurred to any of us
01:26:25
that the killer was among us. 48 hours out of reach. Reported by Peter Vans. For writer and author Nancy Burkhaw,
01:27:02
flying to South Korea in the winter of 2018 reopened a painful chapter in her life, one of murder, loss, and fear.
01:27:13
>> Not only were we devastated about the loss of Carolyn, we of course wondered who's next.
01:27:33
back in soul. Where should be our first stop? >> Well, I think we should go to the school
01:27:37
to ELS where we all taught. >> ELS is the English language school. >> This is the neighborhood
01:27:45
>> where Nancy met fellow teacher Carolyn Ael back in 1988. This is the school and the world was
01:27:53
never the same for any of us who were in that building together on December 20th.
01:27:59
>> The events of that day have haunted Carolyn Abel's family for more than 30 years.
01:28:06
>> And the damage that's been done was just so devastating. >> Wanda Ael remembers her younger sister
01:28:13
Carolyn as the center of attention from an early age. This is our very first passport photo. Carolyn is on the right.
01:28:22
>> This is a passport picture with three people in it. >> Yeah. She was the youngest and the
01:28:26
cutest and the baby of the family. >> The youngest daughter of professors Dr. Francis and Evelyn Ael. Carolyn had a
01:28:35
love of photography and a wander lust that took her around the world. >> My mother said in retrospect, it was
01:28:43
almost like she knew she didn't have a lot of time. She wanted to do as much as she could in the time she had and not
01:28:49
waste a second. >> By the time she graduated from college, Carolyn had already lived in Pakistan,
01:28:57
East Asia, Germany, and France. >> She would get restless. She didn't like being just in one place for too long.
01:29:05
>> That restlessness compelled Carolyn to join the Peace Corps after college, serving in Nepal, where she taught
01:29:13
English. In 1987, Carolyn took another teaching job in Japan where she met this man, Tomoyuki Ayagaki, a customs agent.
01:29:25
>> She's always cheerful. >> Did she make you laugh? >> Yes, she's funny. >> Carolyn and Tomoyuki began a
01:29:33
relationship that very quickly became serious. >> Did you fall in love with Carolyn?
01:29:40
>> Oh, yes. >> Tomoyuki did propose to Carolyn. And what was her answer? Do you know?
01:29:45
>> Carolyn was trying to decide whether she would be happy being married and staying
01:29:51
in Japan. >> While contemplating a future life with Tomoyuki, Carolyn received an offer for
01:29:57
another job 330 m away and across the Sea of Japan. And in the fall of 1988, Carolyn set out
01:30:09
on her next great adventure in life, teaching English here in Soul, South Korea.
01:30:20
>> And from the minute she walked into the staff room, she was just breath of fresh
01:30:25
air. She sort of looked a little bit like Farra Faucet. That's where Carolyn quickly fell in with Nancy Burkhoff and
01:30:32
the other American teachers at school like Sandra Ames who requested that we alter her current appearance for this
01:30:40
interview. >> She was making her students laugh and sing and and have fun learning English
01:30:47
>> and Tamara Do. >> She made friends with everybody. She was very very friendly.
01:30:52
>> So this is Kathy. Carolyn also hit it off with the head teacher at the school,
01:30:58
Kathy Patrick. >> Carolyn and Kathy Patrick were extremely good friends. They were considered, if I
01:31:05
can use a modern term, besties. >> The women taught, traveled, and partied together.
01:31:14
>> Expat life in Seoul in the late 80s was wild. and one place where our worlds collided and that was Eetwan, the red
01:31:24
light district. >> This is where Kathy and Sandra and Carolyn and Tamara and I would come.
01:31:31
>> So what we did is we danced and drank like crazy people. On the weekend of December 17th, 1988,
01:31:40
just 3 days before the murder, Sandra, Cathy, Carolyn, and some Korean students took a trip into the mountains. Carolyn
01:31:49
took these pictures. >> We spent the time looking at temples and hiking and then partying in the evenings.
01:32:01
>> Classes were winding down for the winter break. Tommoyuki was getting ready to
01:32:06
fly to Seoul, hoping to get an answer to his marriage proposal. On Tuesday, December 20th, Carolyn never made it to
01:32:15
work. And a lot of us missed work on occasion for various reasons. >> I was not at that point concerned, but
01:32:24
Kathy was concerned about Carolyn because she couldn't get her on the phone. >> Kathy was asking all of us, had any of
01:32:30
us heard from Carolyn? No. >> Kathy was very upset, convinced that something had happened to Carolyn.
01:32:39
>> And I said, "Well, maybe we should go over there." At that point, some of our students
01:32:46
drove us to Carolyn's apartment. We went into the apartment and Kathy discovered the body.
01:32:58
She was murdered brutally and horribly and in a way that she did not deserve. And we were just all in shock just
01:33:05
trying to figure out what happened. I think we all just felt like, "What the hell's going to happen now?
01:33:17
Are we in danger? How will Sandra and Kathy ever recover from the shock of seeing their dead
01:33:24
friend? Where do we go from here? Carolyn's apartment was on the 15th floor. So, here we are.
01:34:12
I'm Peter Vans and I'm a reporter for CBS News and we are working on a story about a woman named Carolyn who used to
01:34:22
live in your apartment and we came by to ask you if we may have permission to come into your apartment to take some
01:34:31
video pictures. >> Early in the afternoon on December 20th, 1988, colleagues and students of Carolyn
01:34:41
Abless came to this apartment building after she failed to show up for work. Kathy, Sandra, and three Korean men
01:34:52
walked down this hallway. Surprisingly, the door was unlocked and they went inside.
01:34:59
Who was the first person into the apartment? >> Kathy. She went did a beline right to
01:35:04
the bedroom. Kathy came out of the room and said, "Carolyn's dead. We need to call an ambulance. No, we need to call
01:35:12
the cops." And she didn't want me to go look at the body. >> So, we have our shoes off
01:35:20
and we're ready to check out the murder scene. This is the room where Carolyn Ael left
01:35:26
this world and she put up a fight in her last minutes of life. She had a number of defensive wounds and she took the
01:35:33
brunt of it. More than 30 stab wounds including a cut from ear to ear on on the throat and there was blood
01:35:40
everywhere in here on the walls on the bed. It was a mess. Korean police and press swarmed the
01:35:49
apartment which had been ransacked and within hours. The murder led the national news in
01:35:58
South Korea and I remember watching the news and the cameras panning around the room and they
01:36:04
kept going in on this teddy bear and it was really horrible. The impact of seeing her body wheeled
01:36:14
out in a body bag really made it quite real. It wasn't a dream. It became the nightmare that it really
01:36:24
still is to this day. >> How did you get the news of what had happened to your sister?
01:36:32
>> I was at home and my mother called me. She told me that Carolyn had been murdered and I just I screamed.
01:36:43
We were just crying trying to figure out. I mean, how could this happen? Who would
01:36:48
want to do this to her? Everybody loved Carolyn. Why? >> With the killer still out there,
01:36:56
Carolyn's friends wondered, could they be next? We were all certain that perhaps a
01:37:05
Korean had probably killed her. If a Korean hated an American this much, was he coming after the rest of us?
01:37:15
>> The shocked friends turned their attention to Kathy and Sandra, who had discovered Carolyn's body.
01:37:21
>> They seemed horrified. I was so concerned about them. >> They were hysterical.
01:37:27
It seemed as if they were having a nervous breakdown. Days later, Kathy Patrick led a memorial
01:37:35
service for Carolyn. >> I think it was quite moving. >> Even now thinking about it, you tear up
01:37:43
a bit. >> Kathy also wrote Carolyn's parents. Wanda still has that letter. >> Please know that I love Caroline as a
01:37:54
sister and a dear friend. My roommate and I are the two people who found Caroline in her apartment. Let me know
01:38:00
if I can tell you anything. >> In Japan, Tomoyuki learned the love of his life was gone,
01:38:11
but he decided to make his trip to South Korea anyway. He stayed with Kathy and Sandra.
01:38:19
Even today, after all these years, 30 years, this still gets to you, doesn't it?
01:38:27
>> Yeah. Sorry. >> In Soul, rumors were swirling and South Korean police cast a wide net.
01:38:41
We were all suspects. Every single teacher on the staff was interviewed. You know, the Korean police were in our
01:38:49
faces just like, "Where were you? How did you know? Caroline, what's your story? Why are you here? Why did you
01:38:54
come to our country? Are you secretly FBI?" We just kept thinking, why are you asking me this? Get out there and find
01:39:00
the real killer. >> Then Nancy took a phone call in the teachers lounge that moved the
01:39:10
investigation in a whole new direction. >> Sounded like a Korean woman. And then
01:39:15
very quickly she said, "I know who killed Carolyn." I said, "What?" She said, "An American military officer."
01:39:25
Nancy told the South Korean police who brought in detectives from the US Army. >> And very quickly thereafter, John
01:39:33
Boatright walked in. >> John Boatright was a legendary chief of detectives for the Army's criminal
01:39:40
investigation division in South Korea. He quickly eliminated the US military officer who was pegged as a suspect by
01:39:48
his ex-girlfriend. He did not know Carolyn Ael and it appeared that she was just trying to get revenge on him for
01:39:56
the bad breakup. >> 3 weeks after the murder, an autopsy revealed the cause of death, a stab
01:40:04
wound to her right lung. The report also confirmed her throat was cut. >> In my opinion, her throat was cut after
01:40:13
she was deceased. after. How unusual is that based on your experience? >> Very unusual.
01:40:21
>> So, what did happen at Carolyn's apartment? >> And I was convinced that whoever did
01:40:28
this probably knew Carolyn. >> Why? >> Because there was no signs for entering into the apartment. It appeared that
01:40:35
whoever was in that apartment knew her. >> There were two coffee cups found in the
01:40:42
room. If there's a breakin, generally a criminal would not say, "Hey, let's let's have a cup of coffee before I
01:40:49
ransack your place and and attack you." >> That certainly would not be normal. >> Like his South Korean counterparts, Boat
01:40:57
Wright decided to question Carolyn's colleagues who told him, >> "You really should look at the two girls
01:41:04
who found the body." >> Those two women, Sandra Ames and Kathy Patrick. We assumed that a Korean had probably
01:41:16
killed her, but little did we know that the enemy was inside that staff room with us.
01:41:43
Just weeks after Carolyn Abel's murder, the investigation by John Boatright was focusing on the two friends who had
01:41:51
discovered her body. Roommates Kathy Patrick and Sandra Ames. >> And do you get a chance to question each
01:41:59
of them? >> No. Kathy Patrick had already gotten on a plane and left Korea. We had encouraged her to go. She must
01:42:08
have lost 15 pounds. She just looked like someone who was about to break. >> Kathy returned home to Washington State,
01:42:18
but Sandra was still in soul. >> I took a statement from her and then I asked her, "Uh, did you kill Carol?"
01:42:29
And she just sort of sat there and stared at me. She's just staring at you. >> That's correct. After about 30 seconds,
01:42:37
she was very quiet, but she said, "No, that was just just not normal." >> Sandra maintains she had nothing to
01:42:45
hide. So, two months after the murder, she waved her right to an attorney and agreed to take a lie detector test.
01:42:56
>> I remember being hooked up to all the wires in a darkened room. He asked her, "Do you
01:43:03
know where the murder weapon is?" And she said, "No." And she really peakedked out on that,
01:43:12
indicating that she was not being truthful. >> I said, "I'm not lying. I'm telling the
01:43:19
truth." So, we took it again with the same results. And at that point, I said, "Let
01:43:28
me tell you about this picture in my head. The picture was a dark shape on a bed
01:43:36
covered in a quilt that I knew was a body. Sandra described that picture in her head as a fragmented memory of that
01:43:45
night. As Boatright asked her for more details, she told a new story. It was nothing short of a bombshell. The story
01:43:54
began with being in bed and having Kathy at the door of my room and coming in and
01:44:02
saying, "I think I killed Carolyn." "What with?" I asked. And she said, "A knife." "Where is it?" I asked. "In the
01:44:14
kitchen sink." Sandra said she was in disbelief and asked Kathy to take her to Caroline's
01:44:21
apartment where she saw her friend's brutalized body on the bed covered in blood.
01:44:27
>> To the best of my recollection, we sat in the living room at Carolyn's apartment and she convinced me,
01:44:37
manipulated me to help her make it look like a robbery. though she didn't mention it when we
01:44:48
spoke with her. Boatright says that during their interview, Sandra made another statement about her own actions
01:44:56
that night after she walked in and saw Carolyn's body. >> She says, "I touched her arm
01:45:04
and it was warm." And at that point, I realized that she may be still alive and that she might testify against Kathy.
01:45:13
And so I went to the kitchen and got a knife and came back and I cut her throat to make sure she was dead.
01:45:22
>> Remember, Boat Wright believed that wound was inflicted after Carolyn was already dead from the stab wound to the
01:45:29
lung. So, what Sandra is telling you is actually forensically matching up what was done to Carolyn's body.
01:45:38
>> Absolutely. >> But Sandra's story quickly changed. In these official statements, Sandra wrote
01:45:44
that Kathy had admitted to cutting Carolyn's throat. And today, Sandra claims that the only reason she made
01:45:51
that admission was due to false memories implanted by investigators. But she doesn't deny going to the crime scene or
01:46:00
handling the murder weapon. >> You did tell authorities at the time that you cleaned a bloody knife.
01:46:06
>> I did. I did. And that was because I remembered putting the clean knife into the dish rack. Kathy had said that
01:46:15
that was the knife she had used to kill Carolyn. It may seem far-fetched, but Sandra
01:46:22
claims those memories had been suppressed deep in her subconscious mind until the interview with Boatright.
01:46:30
>> So, are you telling me the truth? >> Yes. Yes. >> Because some of these lapses in memory
01:46:35
are kind of convenient. >> Oh, they're very convenient. But no, this is the truth as I lived it.
01:46:42
Though Sandra's story was bizarre to say the least, investigators believed the core details,
01:46:49
which never changed, that Kathy woke her up and confessed to killing Carolyn and
01:46:55
the two of them staged it to look like robbery and the evidence they collected appeared to back that up. each time that
01:47:03
she was interviewed later, she kept changing the facts to to limit her involvement in the murder, but she never
01:47:10
denied that uh Kathy did the murder and she never denied that she was present uh
01:47:18
just after the murder. >> Who do you believe held the knife and murdered Carolyn Ael? Kathy Patrick.
01:47:31
>> After her confession, Sandra Ames was kept in house arrest here in Seoul. 5 months later, in July of 1989, she
01:47:40
pleaded guilty to harboring a criminal and suppressing evidence. >> I was fingerprinted, photographed, and
01:47:47
put into a holding cell. >> But why would Kathy want Carolyn dead? Investigators uncovered a secret which
01:47:56
provided a potential motive. >> Kathy really fell for Carolyn. >> Tamara Do was one of the few teachers
01:48:04
who knew Kathy was gay. >> And she would confide in me, you know, I really like this woman. I think she's
01:48:10
into me and and I'm like, Kathy, I don't really think she's gay. You should really be careful. Kathy told me that
01:48:18
she was in love with Carolyn and that her feelings were not necessarily returned.
01:48:26
>> I believe that Kathy and Carolyn were alone uh during that initial attack. >> The thing that makes most sense to me is
01:48:36
Kathy tried to kiss Carolyn and Carolyn pushed her away and rejected that kiss. I think Kathy was so enraged and angry
01:48:46
that she lost control. >> Kathy Patrick was now the prime suspect in Carolyn Abel's murder. A murder
01:48:54
warrant for her arrest was issued in South Korea. Back in Japan, Carolyn's boyfriend,
01:49:01
Tomoyuki, heard the news. You stayed with Kathy at her apartment. Yes. for her part in the alleged crimes.
01:49:24
Sandra was sentenced to one year in prison. Meanwhile, Kathy Patrick was back at
01:49:32
home in Washington State. The South Korean government made diplomatic requests to return her to
01:49:39
Seoul from the US to face a murder charge but hit a wall. >> There was no extradition treaty with
01:49:47
Korea at the time. >> When she left, they couldn't get her back there. >> Why couldn't we see through Kathy and
01:49:55
Sandro? It's just unreal, you know? So, in in one fell swoop, you learn that your friends are involved in this crime
01:50:04
and that the one who might have been the killer is free because of this loophole in
01:50:10
American law. >> In the States, Carolyn's family pushed for an arrest. >> The US attorney in Washington State
01:50:20
said, "No, you can't arrest her because she hasn't committed a crime in the United States." There was no
01:50:26
jurisdiction to arrest her for murder. And that's what pushed my family to say, "Wait a minute. This isn't right."
01:50:37
>> But American authorities weren't finished with Kathy Patrick. And soon they would come face to face with her.
01:50:44
Did you ask Kathy Patrick flat out, "Did you murder Carolyn Ael?" >> Yes, I did.
01:51:05
So, this is one of the last pictures taken of her alive. >> Right. Right. In the days after Carolyn's murder,
01:51:18
Wanda worked overtime during the holidays to bring her home. >> We got her back in time to hold the
01:51:26
funeral on New Year's Eve. >> Gone, but never forgotten. Wanda Ael and her family were pushing
01:51:35
the government to pursue a case against Kathy Patrick, who had left South Korea just weeks after Carolyn's murder.
01:51:44
>> So, do you believe this sudden move from South Korea to the United States was in
01:51:49
a way a an expression of consciousness of guilt? >> Yes. Well, Kathy knew she did it. So she
01:51:56
had to suspect that sooner or later somebody was going to put it together or that Sandra was going to crack and tow
01:52:02
on her. So she spent as little time in South Korea as possible after she killed Carolyn.
01:52:09
>> With Kathy Patrick back in Washington State, Carolyn Abel's family was fearful
01:52:15
they could be targeted. I was worried that Kathy would try to kill us because Kathy wrote these
01:52:24
letters to my parents, that she was her great friend and that, you know, she'd love to meet them. And I was working
01:52:32
through my mind, what would I do if I saw this person or if she showed up at my house?
01:52:38
>> Despite the lack of an extradition treaty, there was still that South Korean arrest warrant for murder for
01:52:45
Kathy Patrick. My name is Steven Schroeder. I'm a retired assistant United States attorney
01:52:51
and I worked in Seattle. >> They also asked the US government for help. What did the South Koreans want
01:52:58
you to do? >> Among other things, they wanted me to take a deposition of Kathy Patrick and
01:53:05
ask her some questions about the murder that occurred in Soul. It was 1989 when Schroeder was assigned
01:53:14
the case with John Boatright and FBI agents along with her lawyer Kathy Patrick willingly sat down with them to
01:53:22
be questioned. Did you ask Kathy Patrick flat out, did you murder Carolyn Ael? >> Yes, I did.
01:53:30
>> What did she say? >> She said she did not. >> And did you present her with what her
01:53:34
roommate had said? >> Yes. >> And what did she say about that? >> Simply it wasn't true. And did Kathy try
01:53:40
to shift blame at all? Did she point the finger of suspicion at all at Sandra? >> Not with me.
01:53:48
>> Kathy also denied under oath that she was in love with Carolyn Ael. >> Do you believe Kathy Patrick lied to
01:53:56
you? >> There was enough indication of that to justify us doing further investigation.
01:54:04
Yes. My strategy at that point was if the Koreans did not prosecute it, then to look whether we could for basically
01:54:14
false statements, perjury, obstruction of justice. >> Even though lie detector tests are
01:54:19
inadmissible in federal court, they are a tool used by investigators to confirm deception.
01:54:27
Kathy Patrick willingly agreed to take one and answer questions about Carolyn's murder.
01:54:34
>> The examiner concluded that she was deceptive. And deception is >> what? >> Lying.
01:54:41
>> After the polygraph, Kathy Patrick, whom South Korea still wanted to arrest for
01:54:47
murder, was free to leave. >> Is that frustrating? >> It was very frustrating. >> Compounding Carolyn's family's grief,
01:54:58
Sandra Ames was released from a South Korean prison after serving just 6 months of her one-year sentence. And it
01:55:06
wasn't because of good behavior. >> Is it true you got out of prison because someone bribed a judge to get you out?
01:55:14
>> Yep. >> Absolutely. >> We just couldn't believe it. I mean, six months for assisting a murderer and covering up
01:55:28
the crime scene and making it look like a burglary and not even telling anybody,
01:55:32
not talking. I I don't understand. I >> when Sandra returned to the United States, she was recruited by the FBI to
01:55:43
go undercover and secretly record a reunion with Kathy Patrick in hopes of eliciting a confession.
01:55:52
>> I didn't even call. I simply went to her house. >> And what does she say to you, Sandra?
01:55:58
What are you doing here? >> Probably. And I think I said something along the lines of, "How could you have done that?
01:56:08
How could you have killed Carolyn?" And she said, "I don't know what you're talking about."
01:56:15
>> Without incriminating statements from Kathy, the feds were not able to press charges for perjury.
01:56:24
>> As long as she stays within these borders, she's a free woman. >> That's That's correct. Yes.
01:56:31
And with no extradition treaty in place, South Korean authorities put the murder
01:56:36
case on the shelf. >> I think the South Koreans were taking the attitude that this is a US problem.
01:56:46
It's two US citizens. >> Meanwhile, Carolyn's family carried on with their quest for justice.
01:56:53
>> My dad contacting every congressman, every senator. He wrote to news stations
01:57:01
60 minutes because he was hoping that if that happened then there would be more publicity, more pressure.
01:57:10
>> While Kathy Patrick carried on with her life. >> If it is true that Kathy Patrick
01:57:16
murdered your sister, is she a danger today to the public? >> I I think she probably is. And who knows
01:57:25
what would trigger some kind that kind of violence again. >> Kathy declined to meet with 48 Hours. So
01:57:33
we went to her in Bellingham, Washington, where today she's a counselor at Western Washington
01:57:39
University. >> Okay, guys. We're going to make our move now to Kathy Patrick's office.
01:57:48
>> Hi. >> Hi, Kathy Patrick. >> Hi, Peter Van Sam with CBS News. My sister never got to live her life.
01:58:08
Why does Kathy get to live a full life? For almost three decades, Kathy Patrick has lived a quiet life in Bellingham,
01:58:18
Washington, north of Seattle, where for the last 18 years, she has worked as a student adviser at Western Washington
01:58:26
University. >> Okay, this is the building. Okay, so when we get in, let's move quickly to her office. Kathy turned down
01:58:37
our request for an interview, saying Carolyn's murder was too painful to talk about, but on this day, her past was
01:58:46
fast approaching. >> Hi, Kathy Patrick. Peter Vans with CBS News. There are investigators from two
01:58:52
countries that have now are certain that you murdered Carolyn Ael. What do you have to say?
01:58:59
Um, I have to say that I'm innocent and that I don't know what happened after I found
01:59:09
Carolyn's body. These are Kathy Patrick's first public words on the murder of Carolyn Ael in 30 years.
01:59:17
>> Now, your roommate says just the opposite, that you confessed to her and that the two of you then went back over
01:59:24
to Carolyn's apartment and staged the scene as a burglary. No, >> that never happened.
01:59:31
>> No. >> So, she's lying to us when she told us that. >> I believe she is. >> You flunked a polygraph test. How did
01:59:40
that happen? >> I don't know the science of polygraphs. I'm not surprised that I would um flunk
01:59:46
it in retrospect given how clammy and nervous I am right now. And I'm even shaking. It was a frightening
01:59:55
experience. And I absolutely do not know what happened before I went to her apartment and found
02:00:06
her body. >> It has been >> It has been 30 years since this. Isn't it time to come
02:00:14
clean about this? >> Investigators are certain that you committed this murder. >> They are wrong.
02:00:24
>> If you didn't, who did? I believe it must have been Ames. >> Sandra Ames. She says you did it and you
02:00:33
had her go over and help manipulate the room to make it look like a burglary. >> That's not true.
02:00:40
>> Another circumstance in all of this is that people have >> You want these people to leave?
02:00:45
>> Um, can we stop right now? >> These are important questions to be asked about this. Um, there were 30 stab
02:00:51
wounds on Carolyn's body and friends say that you attacked her after she rejected
02:00:55
you. Your romantic advances. >> No, this has to stop now, please. Um, >> you're really sidelining me here, and
02:01:04
I'm not prepared to answer questions here at my place of work. This happened 30 years ago. I have been available to
02:01:13
investigators in Korea and in the US. In her interviews with South Korean police,
02:01:20
a deposition, and a polygraph test with American investigators, Kathy Patrick did not point a finger at Sandra Ames.
02:01:30
Steven Schroeder had a question about that for Kathy. >> Well, why didn't you tell us that 29
02:01:36
years ago? When we recently contacted Sandra Ames, she told us she wasn't surprised that
02:01:43
Kathy tried to blame her and denied having participated in Carolyn's murder. >> If it went to trial, I would be willing
02:01:52
to testify. I would need to testify. >> Where should Kathy Patrick be today in your opinion?
02:02:00
>> She should be in prison. Plain and simple. Thanks to the Able family's lobbying
02:02:08
efforts, in 1994, Congress passed a law that allows for the US prosecution of US
02:02:15
nationals who kill other Americans in foreign countries. >> And so today, American families, if
02:02:22
their loved ones are murdered abroad by an American, um, will have a very different
02:02:28
experience than Carolyn Abel's family did. And I think I think we all owe them a debt of gratitude.
02:02:34
But in Carolyn Abel's case, any trial seems highly unlikely. In South Korea, the statute of limitations for her
02:02:42
murder has expired. And the Ael family says investigators told them the physical evidence in the case has been
02:02:51
destroyed. Evidence that would have been crucial for a trial in the United States.
02:02:58
>> No one should have to go through what my family went through. How do we live in a
02:03:02
world where a US citizen can go murder a US citizen and then come back and live like nothing happened?
02:03:10
That's the outrage of this. >> In a case where nothing is simple, the long path to justice may never reach its
02:03:18
destination. I honestly can't picture old cuz she was just always so so vibrant and so energetic and I I I think she
02:03:35
still would be, you know, I miss her. She was like my best friend. We've all continued our lives as adventurous
02:03:49
people, but you know, we kind of carry the memory of Carolyn behind us. Whatever ground we
02:03:58
walk on, it's hard not to remember that there's another one of us who could be out there
02:04:06
on the same path. 48 hours. Don't miss an episode.