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We the jury unanimously find that the defendant Kouri Richins is guilty of aggravated murder.
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There is a verdict in the [music] trial of Utah children's book author Kouri Richins, who had been charged with
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murder and attempted murder of her husband Eric in 2022, along with insurance fraud and forgery.
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>> [music] >> Kouri Richins was found guilty on all five counts as Eric's sisters and father
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watched emotionally and reacted emotionally to the decision in court. I'm 48 Hours correspondent Natalie
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Morales, and this is 48 Hours inside the Kouri Richins trial. Now, the state of Utah alleged that
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Kouri Richins poisoned Eric with a lethal dose of fentanyl served in a Moscow Mule back in March of 2022,
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after previously attempting to poison him via a sandwich on Valentine's Day of that same year. Before her arrest in
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2023, she published a children's book about grief to help her kids mourn the loss of their father. Here with me to
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discuss the verdict and the trial is Skye Lazaro, a defense attorney who represented Kouri Richins before the
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trial, but she was there inside the Summit County courtroom for closing arguments. So, Skye, the decision really
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came down after just a few hours once the jury went to deliberate. What was your reaction to then hearing the
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verdict, and were you surprised? I was surprised by how quickly the jury came back.
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Really, there was a lot of evidence that was presented in this case, and just, you know, from experience, I somewhat
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expected the jury to go back, probably do a little bit of deliberation with the few hours they had, go home, get some
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rest, and then come back the next day. >> So, the defense did make the decision not to call any witnesses and not to put
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Kouri Richins on the stand. Was any of that a mistake in your opinion as a defense attorney? You hate to Monday
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morning quarterback with somebody else does in trial. This is This is really difficult work, and these are decisions
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that you make in real time. I understand why they did not. The state actually held back some
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evidence. I think because they expected Kouri to probably testify and for the for the defense to put on a
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defense. And the strategy really becomes do we put on what we have, and is what we have
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enough to make a difference? Because what you do, the state gets a rebuttal in these cases. So, the state then gets
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to come back because it's their burden of proof and put on even more evidence or more character evidence. So, really,
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it gives a one more chance to send the jury back to deliberate or listen to closing arguments having heard even more
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negative things about your client. It's always a really, really hard decision to
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make. You never know which one's right. You second-guess everything you do, especially when you get a conviction,
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then you then you really question it. But in this case, I think the state, to their credit, did a really, really good
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job of painting a picture of Kouri Richins as someone who's capable of murder and and who did commit it. Let's
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talk about the murder and attempted murder charges, and here's prosecutor Brad Bloodworth during his closing
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arguments talking about the motive here. And the motive in this case truly was money. You know, Kouri was in over her
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head in debt with her house-flipping business. Eric's estate was worth over $4 million
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including a life insurance policy, which the prosecution alleged that Kouri forged to sign over to her to her name.
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Let's take a listen to Bloodworth in his closings. The substance here happened to have been fentanyl.
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Could have been any part of the illicit street drug that she bought. Happened to
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be fentanyl that she administered in a Moscow Mule and a shot or a shot. But we know that's how she administered
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it because it was in his belly. We know it was a lethal amount. The death certificate, fentanyl killed
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him. That's the substance, lethal amount. Can be as small as 3 ng per milliliter.
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And in this case, he had 15. Five times what can be a lethal amount. That, by the way, is not an accident.
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That amount of fentanyl shows that Kouri Richins wanted Eric not only dead, but good and dead.
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Well, that was Brad Bloodworth from the prosecution. Now, here is defense attorney Wendy Lewis. She insisted that
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the prosecution did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Okay, so they have to prove that Eric or
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I'm sorry, that Kouri Richins intentionally or knowingly caused the death of Eric
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Richins. The state has not proven this. They haven't even proven that she obtained fentanyl.
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They have not proven where the pills ended up or how Eric took them. State stood up here and argued, "Well,
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it really doesn't matter what drug she purchased." As long as it was an illicit street
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illicit street drug. It absolutely matters. Because what did he die of? He died of fentanyl.
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There was no oxycodone in his system. There was no other drug in his system. They must prove that she purchased and
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gave him fentanyl. So, Skye, the defense really leaned into the fact that the prosecution couldn't
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100% prove that Kouri was the one who procured the fentanyl and put it into that Moscow Mule. The defense made the
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case that Eric Richins was a recreational drug user, that he used to take gummies with
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THC at night to help him sleep. Perhaps he got a a tainted supply of THC gummies
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with fentanyl in it. So, in your in your mind, did the defense did not present that as as strong enough evidence to the
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jury? I think with the jury's decision, it's clear that that it wasn't presented
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strong enough, that there wasn't enough follow-up, that they didn't they didn't They put it on through
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cross-examination, but maybe looking back at what should we have done differently or should we have put on a
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defense, maybe those are the people you try to put on. Now, according to the prosecution, the key witness here is
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Carmen Laub. She was a woman who worked with Kouri Richins as a cleaning person,
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but also had a criminal history in dealing drugs and also admitted on the stand to having used drugs and having a
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past with drug abuse, although she claimed she's clean now. But Laub said that Kouri had come to her on four
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different occasions asking for drugs from her saying this was all for an investor, and then Kouri apparently
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asked Carmen Laub for something even stronger than the painkiller that she had received in the past. Carmen talks
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about her contact here when it came to buying those drugs. Take a listen. He said he had a a buddy that had some
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fentanyl pills. What then did you do? I had text Kouri back and told her that I had a
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a friend that could get them, but they were fentanyl pills. So, you told Kouri you had you you had a
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a friend a hookup for the fentanyl pills. Yes. How did Kouri Richins respond? She said,
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"Okay, go ahead and get." So, did you go ahead and get? Yes. So, Skye, I know Carmen Laub is somewhat
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of a of a tough witness when it comes to the prosecution because even though she
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is the key witness here, she also has a history with drugs, and she also seems to be according to the defense's side,
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changing her story on multiple occasions, right? That's correct. The state really had a lot to overcome when
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you pin your entire case on someone like Carmen Laub. We look back at the investigation, and we look at the
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interviews that were done, and she does say that she sold Kouri drugs, but that wasn't fentanyl. And it wasn't
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until several interviews later when the state investigators really pushing on her, "This is your get out of jail free
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card." And remember, she's on probation for first-degree felony drug charges at the time. Those carry a potential
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sentence of 5 years to life in prison. So, this is serious, and and that was played during the course of the trial.
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They're looking to void your drug court deal and ask for 7 years on your two first.
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5 years for the first the one felony and then a 40% portion for the second for 7 years.
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The only exception to that and the only thing that they're willing to kind of help you out with is if you can help us
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out with this. And by so, he he means like give us the details that will ensure Kouri gets convicted of murder.
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And I want to talk about how the defense also went after Carmen Laub's testimony.
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You know, they presented her with stacks of binders. I'm going to ask you to refer to these
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as we talk. These are the transcripts of the interviews that you did in April and
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May of 2023. So, in presenting those binders, it seems she's presenting the situation to
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to Luber as this is all your testimony over the time and look how much it's changed, right Sky? That's exactly what
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they did and they went after her pretty harshly. I I think at times she almost came across as sympathetic, which
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didn't help the defense either. Because up till this point in the interview, you've said no fentanyl. I don't deal in
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fentanyl. I didn't get her fentanyls. I got her Roxys. I got her oxy's. Oh, she asked for Michael Jackson drugs.
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Oh, I guess I got her fentanyl. How else would fentanyl be in my head? Right? That's what's happened up to this point.
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Correct. And the only person up to this point who has put the word fentanyl in your head are these detectives, correct?
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Miss Luber, you're on the stand. At point, they are the ones that told you it was fentanyl.
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They're the ones that told me that Eric passed away from fentanyl. They really did try to hammer on, you know, you
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don't remember. You keep changing your story. You know, you were saying whatever the
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state needed you to say. Now, one of the other big points for the prosecution is
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some of the web searches made shortly thereafter Eric's death. Um queries about, for example, how to delete
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information from your phone, if cops can force you to take a lie detector test, searches about life insurance and luxury
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prisons for the rich in California, and also this query about a lethal dose of fentanyl. Did you think that that went
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over with the jury in a compelling way enough so that it was it was convincing? I think it was confusing from what I saw
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when those happened and I think that was really the important part of it. A search warrant was executed in April,
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long after Eric's passed away and they take they search Corey's home, they take all of her electronics. Those searches
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were conducted on her new phone. So, we know that those searches were conducted after she was given a copy of a search
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warrant that said, we are investigating you, Corey Richens, for the homicide of Eric Richens and we believe he died with
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a lethal dose of fentanyl. So, so those search warrants or those searches that were done I I think are
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explainable when she's learning for the first time, I mean investigated for murder, they think I did it.
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Um and you know, now they've taken my phone. I don't know what a lethal dose of fentanyl is. You know, actually I think
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that could probably be spun in her defense. She didn't know what a lethal dose of fentanyl was. Had she killed
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him, she would know what is enough. Let's talk about that walk the dog letter. Now, we had reported that on
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this in our 48 Hours report. You couldn't talk to us really at length about that letter at the time. Now,
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allegedly this was a letter from Corey to her mother giving her brother Ronnie instructions on what to say in terms of
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how to present the case and her story. And this was written in September of 2023 and the jury was shown
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this redacted version of of the letter and here is Detective Jeff O'Driscoll reading from that letter in the court.
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Page one, walk the dog, but take vague notes so you remember. Here is what I'm thinking, but you have
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to talk to Ronnie. He would probably have to testify to this, but it's super short, not a lot to
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it. He will need to tell Sky at the meeting next week. Upon information and belief,
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just like they say, a year prior to Eric's death, Ronnie was over watching football one Sunday
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and Eric and Ronnie were chatting about Eric's Mexico trips. Eric told Ronnie he gets pain pills and
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fentanyl from Mexico from the workers at the ranch. Not to tell me because I would get mad
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because I always said he he just gets high every night and won't help take care of the kids.
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There are pictures in my phone of Eric passed out on the floor or in the chair. So, this letter, I mean, how big a deal
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is this letter? I mean, was it witness tampering from Corey Richens in this case? Is this Corey trying to set up her
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story? What did you make of it? Because you're actually named in it. You know, Corey says, please tell Sky a couple of
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times in the letter. Uh this letter was probably the single worst thing that probably could have happened to Corey.
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It was published immediately uh by the District Attorney's office to the press that it it really set the scene
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for Corey's a bad person and Corey will lie to get whatever she wants and use whoever she needs to.
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The reality is and and I think this was discussed at a hearing that we had after
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we talked on 48 Hours when I couldn't really talk about it was this letter was was found in her cell after they
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executed a search and took a whole bunch of documents including things I had to fight to get back because
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uh they were privileged. Um this letter was never given to anyone. There was never an indication that it
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was going to be given to anyone or mailed. Corey knew that they read all her mail
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that she sent out. There was no way she was getting this letter out without knowing. Uh so, you know, my perspective
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on it still is it's thoughts on a page. It's not witness tampering. I certainly don't appreciate parts of it. Um
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and and you know, would never cross any lines as an attorney. You know, the way she may hope, but Mhm.
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uh it it reads really problematic. It it's always been a problem in this case. I expected it to continue to be a
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problem and it it just it it in conjunction with everything else that was presented about her, it just really
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does not help put her in a positive light. So, the prosecution really talked about
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the financial motive, but they argued that Corey also wanted to start this whole other life with Robert Josh as he
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goes by Grossman. This was the man that she was having an affair with. Now, when we spoke um Sky back in 2023,
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that affair there had been rumors of it, but we didn't have confirmation of it. So, now we're seeing we have
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confirmation of it and his testimony when he took the stand, he seemed somewhat nervous.
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Um he seemed to really hate the fact that he was there. Even when he was taking the oath, he seemed
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uh confused at times, would you say? I would agree with you and in your correct when we previously spoke on
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this, there were it'd been kind of thrown out there that there perhaps was an affair. This other individual
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existed. We now know and through text messages that have been in, you know, obtained and entered into evidence that
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he does. His testimony was interesting uh for sure that was probably the first time he uh had seen Corey since the
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relationship ended uh and and he was, you know, clearly upset by either having to be there or having to
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testify against her or the relationship in and of itself. And the prosecution, they spent hours
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with him and taking him through some of those text messages that they were sending to each other back and forth.
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Now, these text messages showed both of them professing their love, but when Corey got arrested, he said that's when
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he started feeling really guilty and that's when he said he actually went to Eric's family and he spoke to one of the
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sister's husbands and then they had him meet with their private investigator and
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Josh recalled that conversation also that he had with Corey soon after Eric's death. Did she ask you a question about
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killing? She did. Asked me if I if uh Yeah. What sort what sort did she ask? She asked if if I had ever killed
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anybody. And was that specific to killed anybody while serving in Iraq? Right. Did you respond? I did.
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Did she ask a follow-up question? Yes. Sir, what was that follow-up question? She asked me how it made me feel or
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something along those lines. The way it was presented in court, I think was really effective for the state. Uh
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and and they talked about it again in their closing argument and said, it's not like she said, you know, have you
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ever seen anyone die or has has a loved one or a close person to you ever died? It was, did you have you ever killed? Uh
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it was it was really I think damaging to Corey. Did the defense have much when it
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came to cross-examining Josh? You know, there really wasn't a lot there. I mean,
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you know, the cross of Josh, I think really needs to be, did Corey ever tell you that she killed him? Did you ever
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see her buy fentanyl? Did she ever ask you to get her fentanyl? Did you ever she ever have any conversation, you
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know, about getting rid of Eric and what she would do? I know there was conversations about her wanting to just
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be with Josh. You know, but really, you know, and if he can't provide any anything on that, then it's like, "Okay,
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thank you." So, she had an affair. Mhm. But that affair, I mean, to the jury, you know, an affair does not make a
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murderer, but in this case, it was just one more thing that you think was more damaging to Kouri.
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I think so. No, an affair never makes a murderer. And this affair had gone had been going on and off for years. Uh and
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actually, you know, if if as the state alleges that one of the reasons she killed Eric was to be with Josh, this
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relationship, as he testified on the stand, really just fizzled out shortly after Eric
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died. And so, it it really is kind of flies in the face of that theory, but I think, you know, when you couple it with
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all of these other things, uh that that they just never were really able to the defense was never really able to
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counteract and humanize her in a real effective way, it the circumstantial evidence just really really adds up. And
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then finally, I want to talk to you about the book. Um this is the book, I think, that got everybody's attention.
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It was a children's book about grief to her children, but it drew, I think, a lot of attention to this case. I want to
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play some sound once again from the prosecutor, Brad Bloodworth, during the closing argument about the book. She
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wrote it, had it written, and published it in early 2023, when she knew that investigators were investigating her for
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the murder of Eric Richins. She promoted it. Her mother sent a book to investigators all to deflect attention
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away from Kouri Richins. She also wrote it to make money. You see the emails, they're in evidence. She
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thought she would sell 100,000 copies in 10 months at $5 profit a copy. That is not tethered to reality.
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But it does provide insight into how desperate she was for money. As she betrayed
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She betrayed on her sons and the death of her father to make money. The final thing that tells you about
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Kouri Richins [clears throat] is that she wanted, as part of her facade, as part of her
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appearance of success, privilege, and affluence, she wanted to be an author. But she didn't write it,
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and you can see it from her writings and text messages, orange notebook, the notes, the walk the dog letter. Not only
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did she not write it, she's not a good writer. But she wanted to appear as one. The appearance was what was important to
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her. Bloodworth there is alleging that this was written by a ghostwriter, and this
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was really, again, Kouri trying to put on appearances of that grieving widow, that grieving mom with her children.
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What did you make of of that presentation of of Kouri? That was their entire theory of this was everything she
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did, she did for attention. And he he came back to that numerous times in his closing argument talking about the
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timing of why she did things or when she did them because they would get more attention
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and or more sympathy for her. And they tied it to the book. And the book in and of itself, I
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it didn't really sell that many copies. I know it was taken off. Probably would have sold a lot more
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after if it'd been left up after she'd been charged. But Kouri at at all times, and you know,
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maintained to investigators, to everyone, that she loved her children. You know, there was no
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there was no evidence presented that she didn't love her children. I think that the timing of the book, I I'll concede,
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was absolutely terrible. Please don't write books when you're under investigation for murder. But Yeah. you
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know, it doesn't help things. But, you know, I think the state's idea of why she did it is is wildly
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speculative, and I'm not sure there's really any evidence to back that up. Well, I know Eric's family was, of
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course, very much relieved by the verdict. It is what they wanted all along. His sister, Amy, said she was
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happy that they finally got justice for her brother. The sentencing for Kouri Richins is
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scheduled for May 13th. What do you expect will happen then? What What do you expect will be the outcome of that
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with all five counts coming back as guilty? There's two options the judge has on on count one, and I think,
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regardless of what he does with counts two through five, probably don't matter. Count one, aggravated murder in Utah,
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the sentencing possibilities are 25 >> [clears throat] >> years to life in the Utah State Prison
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or life without parole. Uh that'll really be the decision the judge makes. On a 25 Even if he gives
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her the lower end of that, the 25 years to life, whether or not he can, you know, add
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consecutive sentences for the remaining charges, I I think really probably doesn't matter. It's going to be so long
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before she's eligible for parole unless this case comes back on appeal for some reason,
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uh that she's going to spend significant amount of time, if not the rest of her life, in prison. Well, I know the
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defense had at multiple times asked the judge for a mistrial. The judge did not buy that.
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But I imagine there will be an appeal. Is that your your understanding of what might happen next? I would expect an
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appeal to come in this case without any personal knowledge. She was convicted of
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aggravated murder and the remainder of the counts, I think there's there's no other option but to
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file an appeal. There were enough rulings and pretrial litigation rulings, rulings
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that the made the judge made during the trial that an appellate attorney will will pick this up and say, "Hey, look,
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some of these, you know, were [music] were detrimental, and it should come back." You know, that that would be up
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to our Utah Supreme Court as to how they're going to rule on those. >> Well, once again, Skyler Zaro, thank you
00:26:15
so much for your expert insight into this case, the Kouri Richins trial. Thanks for having me, Natalie.