00:00:07
We don't want [music] to accept that there is actually evil that walks amongst us,
00:00:14
but it does. And this was pure evil. The Han family, I felt better whenever I spent time with Henry, Jenny, and Emily.
00:00:28
Henry was born to be a healer. >> Henry was the guy in the alternative medicine world. [music]
00:00:36
Patients would come in from all different parts of the country to see him. When you go [music] to the clinic,
00:00:41
it just kind of oozed of peacefulness. He had the magic. Emily had her own little table and her
00:00:52
crayons. Her mom Jenny was there working in the clinic. It's kind of [music] good
00:00:57
therapy to be with the three of them. >> They did make a good team. >> We were business partners with Henry and
00:01:05
we were becoming friends. >> We really had a beautiful road ahead of us. >> He had a 10:00 a.m. meeting with his
00:01:15
normal investment group. >> It was probably, you know, a good 45 minutes um after the meeting was
00:01:20
supposed to start that we all kind of went, "Where is Henry?" >> If he was going to be 2 minutes late, he
00:01:25
called. We're trying to call Henry and was going straight [music] to voicemail. >> So, for him to miss this meeting would
00:01:31
be a big deal. >> We just wouldn't. Something was not right. >> We all had a pit in our stomach [music]
00:01:36
and we were trying to find a reason why that pit shouldn't be there. Emily's birthday is [music] coming up. Maybe
00:01:43
they took her to Disneyland. Somebody's got to go over to their house and check on them. Mark finally gets in touch with
00:01:50
Don Goldberg. very unusual not to get any communication from either Jenny or Henry. By midday, I decided to go to the
00:01:58
home. From the outside, it looked normal. Went to the front door. Door was closed, but it was not locked. The two
00:02:06
vehicles were in the garage, which you could see through the windows at the top of the garage door. Then I called uh
00:02:13
911. They came over and did a welfare check. Around 5:30 that evening, two deputies arrived, made entry, called
00:02:21
out, no response, [music] and then started to look to see if there was any sign of foul play. And that's what led
00:02:28
them to open the garage door. And then if you walk around the first [music] car, they can see what appears to be
00:02:36
three bodies wrapped in plastic and duct tape. Within a [music] minute or two, it
00:02:41
sunk in that the the three bodies were Henry, Jenny, [music] and Emily. My friends were gone. There's a certain
00:02:51
amount of shock that that sets in. >> We didn't hear back from Dawn. We didn't eat that night. We [music] didn't sleep
00:02:58
that night. >> A 5-year-old, 3 days short of her birthday. It shook us all [music] to our core. It
00:03:06
was rough. things started rapidly going into the next phase. [music] Who, how, and why.
00:03:16
It's a huge home. There was biological evidence throughout, primarily [music] in the upstairs and the bedrooms where
00:03:22
the murders took place. The smell of bleach was there indicating [music] a cleanup attempt. The entire family
00:03:30
killed presumably [music] while they slept. We knew there was a monster out there and we were going to find him and
00:03:36
get him. Heat. Hey. Hey. Hey. >> [music] >> Mark and Mara Palumbo were concerned
00:04:28
when their friend and business partner, Dr. Henry Han, failed to show up for a meeting. On March 23rd, 2016,
00:04:37
they would learn the horrific reason why the following day from a news report. >> I was in the kitchen on my computer and
00:04:46
I kept checking and I just remember screaming, "They're all dead." >> Dr. Han, his wife Jenny, and [music]
00:04:54
their 5-year-old daughter Emily were found dead in the garage of their Santa Barbara home.
00:05:01
Mark had just seen them on his way back from a business trip. >> We went out for dinner, played Connect 4
00:05:08
with Emily. >> He brought his phone to me and I'm just looking at all these pictures of Emily
00:05:14
and they were taken the Friday before. Just horrific. Yeah. And she [music] was just goofing around
00:05:22
with a book, making all these [music] funny faces. and you could tell she was loving life.
00:05:33
>> The Palumbos had recently embarked on a new business venture with Dr. Han. >> I really love the guy. I mean, he really
00:05:40
was smart and curious and open-minded. >> He had to come with food and in shorts
00:05:45
and flip-flops, you know, just no air about him. But what made you trust him? His passion.
00:05:53
>> Yeah. The way he cared about people. >> Don Goldberg had known Dr. Han for more
00:05:58
than 25 years and thought of him as a brother. To Don, he was just Henry. >> I was approximately 10 years older than
00:06:06
Henry, but he still called me [music] his younger brother. You just don't come across a friend like Henry. It's once in
00:06:16
a lifetime friendship. When they met, Henry was making a name for himself after immigrating from
00:06:24
China, where he came from a family of physicians. He would soon take over the Santa Barbara Herb Clinic.
00:06:32
>> I had several patients [music] who had had medication side effects. They would
00:06:37
say, "I went to see Dr. Han and it went away and it was like, I got to meet this
00:06:43
guy." >> Dr. Glenn Miller, a psychiatrist, says he and Henry developed a mutual respect
00:06:49
and even partnered on a book about how Eastern and Western medicine could work together to improve [music] patients
00:06:56
quality of life. >> Henry's practice was flourishing as far as active patients [music] he would see
00:07:03
like in a month. It was hundreds. But he also tried to balance it. In 2009, that balance he was seeking
00:07:12
became a reality when Henry met and married Jenny U. >> He [music] seemed incredibly happy. It
00:07:21
was good to see Henry that happy. >> Jenny was absolutely warm and [music] lovely.
00:07:29
>> When they had Emily, the dream was complete. >> Henry was just on cloud nine. He was
00:07:36
very proud father. They were often together at the clinic where Jenny had quickly become Henry's
00:07:43
right hand, says her friend Isaiah Oregon. >> He really trusted her and let her kind
00:07:49
of [music] take the reigns. >> In the spring of 2016, >> it's my turn. >> They were getting ready to celebrate
00:07:56
Emily's sixth birthday. >> Where should I go? >> Wherever. >> Go wherever. We were making plans for a
00:08:02
birthday party and, you know, had all her presents wrapped. [music] But just three days shy of her birthday, her
00:08:09
loved ones were stricken with grief. >> I don't really have adequate [music] words to describe how I felt.
00:08:19
The sadness is too deep. >> As night fell on the Han estate on Wednesday, March 23rd, Don tried to
00:08:27
process what he had just witnessed. He had called 911 when he couldn't find the Hans anywhere. [music] And he was with
00:08:34
sheriff's deputies when they discovered the bodies in the garage wrapped in plastic. [music]
00:08:40
>> None of it made any sense at all. >> Prosecutor Ben Leaden says it was shortly before midnight [music] when
00:08:49
Santa Barbara Sheriff's investigators obtained a search warrant and began to piece together what had happened inside
00:08:56
the house. It appeared the family had been shot while they slept upstairs [music] on the
00:09:03
second floor. Henry in the couple's bedroom and Jenny and Emily across the hall in Emily's room.
00:09:10
[music] >> Emily's room was tough to see. Mom probably read her [music] stories to
00:09:16
have Emily go to sleep that night and was sleeping with her. >> What did that tell you about the
00:09:21
depravity of the kind of person who could do something like that? What were they after? We didn't know what he was
00:09:29
after, but the depravity, I've never seen anything like it. >> Detectives picked up on the distinct
00:09:36
smell of the murderer's attempts [music] to cover his tracks. >> The smell of bleach was there. We had
00:09:42
bleach bottles found. There were bleach stains on the carpet and throughout other items upstairs. And then you see
00:09:49
bloody things in a washing machine. All the bedding which had been stripped from the beds was found piled in the
00:09:57
laundry room and in the machine. >> The washing machine the alarm had gone off because it the load was unbalanced
00:10:04
and within there are a huge group of bloody sheets >> wedged in pillows in the laundry. Crime
00:10:12
scene investigators found a 22 caliber bullet and bullet fragments. Three matching shell casings were found within
00:10:19
the wrapping of Jenny's body. and one was later found lodged between the baseboard and box spring of Emily's bed.
00:10:27
>> We had one bullet that was a through and through. It was perfect for comparison
00:10:32
for the murder weapon. As things are going, we start to find clues as to who potentially could be involved.
00:10:43
Inside a paper bag next to Henry's bed, detectives found a document signed the last day Henry was seen alive. It
00:10:52
provided a name. >> It's basically a four-page business contract between two partners. Partner
00:10:59
one, Pierre Hopp, and partner two, Dr. Han. >> Don Goldberg knew a Pierre that Dr. Han
00:11:05
was associated with. But Don thought he was harmless. I did not think that Pierre was capable of murder. I never
00:11:14
really saw Pierre become angry or agitated. >> But the Palumbos had a bad feeling. He
00:11:21
didn't trust him. >> I did not. This community was left with a scar. The indelible scar
00:11:48
left by the murders was the kind that not even Dr. Han could have healed. >> Wow. It was like a bomb exploded.
00:11:58
Nobody could move for weeks. There was [music] something very, very, very dark going on. Kimberly Ruff says Dr. Han
00:12:06
treated her family for two decades. He could do anything. >> Ever since she was diagnosed with
00:12:12
thyroid cancer shortly after giving birth to her son, Kimberly says Dr. Hans's holistic approach allowed her to
00:12:20
nurse her newborn while still treating her tumors. >> No matter [music] how scared you might
00:12:25
be or or frightened, you just left feeling like it's going to be okay. Yeah, he was something. [music]
00:12:33
>> Instilling hope may have been one of the secrets to why his patients say Dr. Han
00:12:38
could heal just about [music] anything. >> Dr. Han like saved my life. >> Sher Buron was also a young mother with
00:12:46
cancer [music] when she went to Dr. Han. >> My daughter Abby was 15 months old. I
00:12:52
felt a lump under my armpit. >> Even though she had the prescribed surgery and chemotherapy, she credits
00:13:00
Dr. Han with her survival. >> There was so many people that passed away around [music] me. He got me
00:13:05
through it. >> What was the impact for you of his loss? >> It's the fear of if something comes back
00:13:11
and I'm trying every day to be positive and try to stay with his level of calm and how much confidence he had that like
00:13:19
everything's taken care of. >> That conviction is what had drawn the Palumbos who worked in the skincare
00:13:25
industry into their partnership with Dr. Han hoping to treat various skin maladies.
00:13:31
>> Henry was very interested in CBD. >> Having used CBD in his practice to treat
00:13:36
pain and inflammation, Henry wanted to harness its full potential. It was groundbreaking science at the time, and
00:13:44
he wanted 25-year-old Pierre Hopp to help develop [music] it. Pierre, from what we gathered, had a lot of
00:13:52
experience uh in laboratories, in this case relating to CBD. >> Henry had taken a liking to Pierre after
00:14:00
meeting him through another associate. But the Palumbos were uncomfortable with Pierre from the start. You know how when
00:14:07
you meet somebody, you can't put your finger on it, but something's not right? That was Pierre. There was always this
00:14:14
kind of little boiling simmer. >> When it came time to do the lab work, the Palumbos say the results were
00:14:22
disturbing. >> What we came to find out was he was using toxic materials. When we called
00:14:28
him on it, they said, you know, I'm just learning more about the molecules. It was just weird.
00:14:34
>> As it turned out, Pierre wasn't a formerly trained [music] scientist. He didn't even have a college degree. The
00:14:40
more you got under that surface, the more you realize that he could talk a game and stay over the folks [music]
00:14:48
heads a bit scientifically. >> Sounds like he was sort of a snake oil salesman type, right?
00:14:54
>> Sophisticated one, but yes. >> Yeah, very sophisticated one. There was more eyebrow raising behavior. Pierre
00:15:00
had also made odd charges on Henry's account. >> I was doing all the finances and I'm
00:15:07
like, this doesn't look right. Not a business expense. >> Not at all. >> After Mara flagged the charges to Henry,
00:15:13
he discovered they were for escort services. >> Henry was, "You won't believe this.
00:15:19
Pier's out." That was the final straw. >> That was Henry's final straw. >> But then a few weeks before the murders,
00:15:25
Mark and Mara say Henry brought up Pierre out of the blue. >> Henry mentioned that he had learned a
00:15:33
lot more about Pierre's upbringing, how much Pierre had to overcome. from his childhood. Mark Norai really responded.
00:15:42
We didn't want to have Pierre back in our fold at all. The Palumbos were not alone in being wary of Pierre. Jenny's
00:15:51
friend Isaiah says Jenny also had concerns and confided in him about them 4 days before the murders.
00:15:59
>> It was weighing on her heavily. Do [music] we trust him? Do we give him another chance? I was like, absolutely
00:16:05
not. If he stole from you before, he's going to steal from you again. But Pierre had already ingratiated himself
00:16:11
back into Henry's goodwill. [music] >> Henry had a very trusting nature. Henry had shared with me that Pierre told him
00:16:19
that he was ill, that it was late cancer and that he was going to do what he could to help Pierre
00:16:27
>> using Henry's good nature by lying to him, by manipulating him. Authorities learned that Pierre had been an
00:16:34
overnight guest at the Hans home before the murders and had formed a new partnership with the healer. There was
00:16:42
that contract found in the master bedroom they had signed the last day of Henry's life. But prosecutor Ben Leenig
00:16:49
says it didn't seem legitimate. >> It was like a college sophomore drafted it. It was not notorized, not witnessed.
00:16:58
>> Detectives had found something else of interest. A brilliant detective found packaging to the plastic [music]
00:17:05
wrapping that all three of the Han family were wrapped in in a trash can in the kitchen area. Next to [music]
00:17:12
packaging of 3M duct tape, similar to the duct tape that was used [music] to wrap all three of the bodies.
00:17:19
>> He recognized the plastic wrap was a Home Depot brand and reached out to the company's security department. And Home
00:17:26
Depot was within hours of us getting entry into the [music] house able to run those two items together to see if they
00:17:36
[music] had been purchased in the Southern California region within the last several [music]
00:17:42
days or weeks. A Home Depot in Oceanside, California, had security footage of a man who matched the DMV
00:17:50
photo of Pierre Hopp, who also happened to have an Oceanside address. >> And that was bam. We knew [music] he's
00:17:58
walking out with three huge plastic rolls and sure enough, duct tape. >> So within [music]
00:18:03
hours of the crime scene being discovered, Pierre Hopp became person of interest.
00:18:10
>> Yes. But where was Pierre now? Detectives had a hunch. Data from the Han cell phones,
00:18:17
which were missing, showed they were traveling south, further and further from Santa Barbara.
00:18:24
>> Then, inexplicably, Henry's phone goes dark, but Jenny's is still [music] on,
00:18:30
and it keeps going south. We're getting basically digital footprints leading down to the Oceanside area from a dead
00:18:40
woman's phone. >> Anytime you're trying to stop somebody that is wanted for homicide, the stakes
00:18:59
are going to be high. The day after the Han family was found murdered, a manhunt
00:19:04
was underway in Oceanside, California, nearly 200 miles from the crime scene. Sergeant Anthony Flores and his partner
00:19:12
were part of the local Oceanside police team, assisting the Santa Barbara investigation.
00:19:18
>> We had come in to work with our special enforcement section, and we were going
00:19:22
to be the stop car for that day if given a window of opportunity to take him into
00:19:27
custody or potentially stop him. Meanwhile, undercover detectives were conducting surveillance at the residence
00:19:33
Pierre Hop shared with his father and updating all units, including the homicide team that had driven down from
00:19:41
Santa Barbara with prosecutor Ben Leidden. >> All of a sudden, we get chatter on our
00:19:47
intercoms. Dad's on the move. The surveillance team followed Pierre's father as he drove to a Walmart parking
00:19:54
lot where security cameras captured him meeting up with none other than Pierre. >> That's dad driving in sedan [music]
00:20:03
and then you see the Lexus following shortly behind. They appear to be communicating briefly together. You can
00:20:12
just [music] see that trunk pop. >> Yeah. >> On dad's car. After transferring two
00:20:16
large [music] duffel bags to Pierre's car, they both drove off. >> We got to move quickly.
00:20:23
>> It was a little after midnight and we just got the update that the suspect was
00:20:28
on the move. As we're traveling, we're hearing that he's pulling into the Arco station. He had a few miles of a head
00:20:34
start. >> The other units and Leenig had pulled over by the Arco station waiting for the
00:20:40
arrest team to arrive. And all of a sudden you see an unmarked car drive right through the middle of that
00:20:46
intersection. Sparks fly and it just basically comes in and pulls in and lays on the brakes. Two huge dudes get out of
00:20:53
the car and pull gun on him and prone them out. [music] And our eyes are like saw. We're like, "Wo,
00:21:00
>> it's 200 m away that this investigation started and it culminated here." >> Sergeant Flores had handcuffed Pierre.
00:21:08
What do you remember about that arrest? I remember it going down really fast. All of our senses were heightened.
00:21:14
>> Within 48 hours of the murders, investigators [music] had the Han family's alleged killer in custody.
00:21:21
Pierre Hopp waved his Miranda rights and started talking to detectives. What he told them was something out of a spy
00:21:29
thriller. He claimed that his life was in danger. Over the past couple of days, I I kid you not, I've been shot at
00:21:37
probably about five individuals so far that I shot in self-defense. >> He claimed he was being targeted because
00:21:47
of a scientific marvel he had invented. >> What does it do? It's um it's a very very advanced energy source. It's a
00:21:54
quantum kind of energy source. I think probably at least 15 individuals who have been connected to this project are
00:22:01
are dead. >> Pier said he had gone to Dr. Han's house earlier in the week to install one of
00:22:06
his perpetual energy devices [music] and that the plastic wrap and duct tape he was seen purchasing were for that
00:22:13
purpose. >> Dr. Henry, we um we signed a contract together. He was going to facilitate
00:22:18
taking the technology out to China. Loved loved the guy to death. He really um really liked this project. Pierre
00:22:25
said he had left Santa Barbara around 2 p.m. on March 22nd, the day before the murders after signing the contract, but
00:22:33
[music] detectives pushed back. >> Is there more to this story that you're not telling me?
00:22:38
>> Dr. Han has been murdered. >> What? >> I had no clue that Oh my gosh. Everything was perfectly fine when I
00:22:47
left. Pierre was adamant he would never hurt the family and [music] insisted the
00:22:52
shadowy figures who had been after him had killed the Hans and were trying to frame him for murder.
00:22:58
>> I wanted a technology that changes the world at oil companies and people don't
00:23:03
want this technology out there. >> It was this massive conspiracy to keep this next level energy system from
00:23:10
getting out to market. James Bond, Mission Impossible, this fantastical life. I jumped out the window.
00:23:17
>> Pierre's outlandish story continued, but then detectives received an unexpected
00:23:22
call from someone [music] who claimed to have information about the murders. >> I'm a pretty rough around the edges guy.
00:23:29
I have rough around the edges friends. >> TJ Dorito was a marijuana grower who said Dr. Han had approached him about
00:23:36
supplying CBDrich strains. TJ had also met Pierre. >> Dr. Henry had told me that he was like a
00:23:44
prodigy street chemist. He had done some stuff that was ahead of his time. >> So, a little bit of a mad scientist,
00:23:49
>> I would say. Yeah. >> According to TJ, Pierre had a penchant for making up grandiose stories to seek
00:23:56
attention, but he befriended him nonetheless. >> He was that awkward kid that wanted to
00:24:03
fit in, and I was the guy in high school that stuck up for kids like that. So, I
00:24:08
took an interest in him in that regard. Do you think he trusted you then? >> Oh, he absolutely trusted me.
00:24:14
>> As TJ revealed to detectives, Pierre had reached out to him via text the morning
00:24:20
of the murders. The message sent at 9:39 a.m. said, "I need your help with something urgently, like it's urgent."
00:24:30
>> What was he asking for? >> Uh, he needed my help moving something. He says Pierre told him he was in Santa
00:24:37
Barbara and needed to talk face to face. So TJ had him come to his house in Thousand Oaks [music] about an hour
00:24:45
away. >> The first thing out of his mouth, just so you know, I'm a monster. He had told
00:24:49
me right then and there that he had killed Dr. Henry, his wife, and his child, and needed help.
00:24:55
>> Did he give you details of what he did? >> He did. TJ told detectives Pierre said
00:25:02
he had tried to put the bodies in his [music] car, but they wouldn't all fit and Henry was too heavy. Details Leenig
00:25:09
says only the killer would know. >> How the killings were done, how the bodies were wrapped up, [music] how he
00:25:16
had the doctor's phone. >> TJ told detectives Pierre had also revealed his motive, $20 million that he
00:25:23
planned to drain from Henry's accounts after killing the family. TJ says he didn't know if what he was hearing was
00:25:30
another one of Pierre's far-fetched stories. And until he knew for sure, he decided to play along.
00:25:37
>> I just wanted to get him out of the house and confirm whether what he had just said was true or not. I said, "Let
00:25:43
me work on it and I'll call you later." >> Once Pierre was gone, TJ tried to reach
00:25:48
Dr. Han and anyone who might have information to no avail. [music] >> I didn't want to call the police because
00:25:54
I didn't I wasn't sure yet. It was chaotic. It was it was scary and also confusing.
00:26:00
>> Pierre kept messaging him around 5:00 p.m. when TJ [music] still hadn't provided any assistance. Pierre texted
00:26:08
him with a proposition. Want to come to Vegas tonight? All pay. What did you think the reason for that all of a
00:26:14
sudden trip [music] to Vegas? >> At that point, I wasn't sure. Didn't sound right. It was probably going to
00:26:21
kill me and somehow make it look like I had something to do with it. you were going to be the fall guy,
00:26:26
>> right? >> TJ made up an excuse why he couldn't go. And Pierre would send him one final text
00:26:32
at 7:35 that night. Yep, I'm [music] screwed. They just found everything. My life's over. Only if I'd got to it all
00:26:42
sooner. Legg says Pierre had just returned to the crime scene with a big truck to transport the bodies, but law
00:26:50
enforcement had beaten him to the scene. He knew his goose was cooked. [music] Pierre Hopp's arrest near Oceanside,
00:27:10
California [music] had come at a critical juncture. He was armed with a 9mm handgun that was in
00:27:17
plain view on the driver's side floorboard. He also had his passport and those duffel bags which he had received
00:27:25
from his father minutes earlier. >> Two go bags, basically whatever you need, clothes, everything for the person
00:27:33
to live for months. >> Hopsh's father was also detained and questioned, but he was released later
00:27:39
that morning. >> We could have charged him as an accessory, but we didn't have any
00:27:45
indication that dad was involved in any way, shape, or form in the killing. The next day, during a closer examination of
00:27:52
Hopp's car at the crime lab, >> you name it, we found it in that car. >> There [music] was Henry's wallet, credit
00:27:58
card, and social security number along with an expended [music] shell casing. There were also the victim's phones and
00:28:06
tablet, all wrapped in aluminum [music] foil in an attempt to evade tracking. In
00:28:12
the trunk, you lift up where the spare tire would be, the murder weapon, [music] suppressor, silencer,
00:28:18
ammunition. >> A week after the murders, the autopsies revealed the victims had been shot 14
00:28:24
times, three each into Henry and Jenny. And most disturbing, [music] eight in Emily.
00:28:32
>> That ammunition is the same stuff that we found at the crime scene in the deedants bodies. Match, match, match,
00:28:39
match, match everything. Pierre Hopp was charged with three counts of firstdegree
00:28:44
murder, making him eligible for the death penalty. >> It was one of the most challenging
00:28:50
cases, if not the most challenging case I ever came upon. >> Defense attorney Christine Voss, who was
00:28:56
with the public defender's office at the time, represented Hops. >> He really wanted to be vindicated. To
00:29:03
me, the goal was for him to not get death. At the 11th hour, the DA's office agreed to wave the death penalty in
00:29:12
[music] exchange for a more expedient bench trial, which meant a judge, not jury, would render a verdict. On October
00:29:20
25th, 2021, more than 5 and 1/2 years after the murders, the prosecution delivered its opening statement [music]
00:29:28
and laid out its theory of the case that Pierre Hopp had plotted the murder of the Han family for financial gain. They
00:29:36
painted him as a career con man who up until the murders flaunted his intelligence and supposed wealth. His
00:29:44
[music] entire life's drive was being rich. He sent screenshots of his Chase [music]
00:29:50
account from anywhere from about $3 million up to $940 million to various [music] people attempting to dupe them
00:29:59
that he's this jet setting billionaire. Hops claimed he had received big offers for his energy technology.
00:30:06
>> I am not a scientist, but I don't know that there's a such thing as a perpetual
00:30:09
energy machine. >> But several years before the murders, Hopp was actually being paid to build
00:30:15
one. >> It was going to be a new source of energy as if he was, you know, an Elon
00:30:20
Musk. >> Samantha Spyell met Pierre Hopped circa 2012 when he moved into a penthouse
00:30:26
apartment in a luxury high-rise she managed in Tempe, Arizona. He pulled up and had this bright red Ferrari. It was
00:30:33
very flashy. >> Leinik says Hopp had duped a group of high rolling investors into financing
00:30:40
his invention [music] until they realized it didn't actually work. >> He had basically defrauded all these
00:30:47
people and the money dried up. When the murders were committed, I think he had less [music] than $500 to his name.
00:30:54
Prosecutors presented a detailed timeline retracing Hopscha's movements, including his digital footprint in the
00:31:02
days before and after the murders. They say as early as March 17th, 6 days before the murders, [music] he had
00:31:10
looked into impersonating the doctor at his bank. >> He's searching for Asian disguises and
00:31:17
real flesh masks, >> like a Mission Impossible face mask, >> 100%. This is his fantastical world that
00:31:23
he lived in. [music] >> There's no evidence he ever purchased a mask, but a timestamped receipt and
00:31:29
security video placed him at an Arizona gun store 4 days before the murders. Purchasing ammunition and two firearms,
00:31:40
including the alleged murder [music] weapon, >> 22 pistol with a threaded barrel for
00:31:47
what is a silencer or suppressor. On March 20th, he was back in Oceanside, California, buying supplies before
00:31:54
driving up to the Hans house under the guise of installing the energy machine. Instead, Leine says Hopsch bugged
00:32:03
Henry's computer with a spyware app called a key logger. >> What key loggers do is every stroke,
00:32:10
every click of the mouse, every navigation page you go, it documents all of it. To their surprise, investigators
00:32:18
also found the key logger on Hopscha's laptop. On March 21st, while Hops was still at the Hans home, the key logger
00:32:27
had recorded chilling [music] search terms on his laptop. >> What part of the skull is more
00:32:33
penetrable? What ammunition [music] would be better? >> As a guest in Dr. Han's house, staying
00:32:39
there for the two [music] nights before planning this execution style murder. >> Yes. Pierre Hops left the Han residence
00:32:47
on March 22nd, but prosecutors allege he went back around 4:00 a.m. the next morning to carry out the murders.
00:32:54
[music] They say later that day, he began frantically trying to siphon [music] money from Henry's accounts.
00:33:01
>> He's using phones. He's using fake email accounts. He's doing all these things
00:33:07
from personal identifying information of Dr. Hans that he stole earlier that week. A Chase fraud alert had flagged an
00:33:16
attempted [music] payment for $72,000. Meanwhile, Hopp also rented that big truck he allegedly drove to the crime
00:33:24
scene hoping to move the bodies. >> There are black and whites all over that house. The crime scene's being
00:33:30
processed. >> The Palumbo say the meeting they were supposed to have with Henry just hours
00:33:35
after he was murdered had foiled Pierre Hopscha's plans. He thought that he had that whole day to clean up his mess
00:33:44
before Henry would be missed >> and we screwed it up for him happily. >> That's when prosecutors say he fled
00:33:52
driving south toward Oceanside. Leenig argues Hopscha's subsequent searches betray his guilty conscience. Is cars
00:34:01
searched [music] entering Tijuana? How crime scene investigation works? and how long do fingerprints take to process?
00:34:08
[music] Incredibly, he even consulted an online psychic named Count Marco and asked him,
00:34:16
"Will I get [music] caught for what I did?" >> And Count Marco replies, "Well, what did
00:34:22
you do, Pierre?" >> Pierre Hopp never gave Count Marco an explanation, but on the stand, [music]
00:34:30
he couldn't stop talking. This was a tough case, but that didn't [music] change the fact
00:34:53
that Pierre was entitled to a vigorous defense. >> Defense attorney Christine Voss was in
00:34:59
an unusual position. This was a really well investigated case because my client wanted to have a trial and wanted me to
00:35:09
turn every stone. I did >> turn every stone and raise any possible reasonable doubt.
00:35:16
>> You argued that there were elements presented that were implausible, unprovable, and simply impossible. Those
00:35:23
were your words. >> Yeah. Voss expressed concerns that the alleged murder weapon and [music]
00:35:28
silencer found in Hopsia's car didn't match up. >> It absolutely did not connect
00:35:34
[clears throat] to the firearm that they believed was the murder weapon. She seized on
00:35:39
discrepancies in the location data from Hopsia's car and phone that the prosecution had used in its timeline. He
00:35:47
could not possibly have been in San [music] Diego and Santa Barbara simultaneously or Thousand Oaks and
00:35:54
Santa Barbara simultaneously, but that's what the GPS data showed. >> And she attacked the credibility of the
00:36:00
prosecution's star witness, TJ Darita. Voss questioned why Darita waited nearly two days to contact authorities and
00:36:11
argued in that time he could have gotten details about the crime scene that the prosecution claimed only the killer
00:36:18
knew. >> It was not the best kept crime scene. He was making various phone calls after he
00:36:26
heard about the death of Dr. Han. But Voss concedes much of Darita's testimony was corroborated by the evidence.
00:36:35
>> This case was over within the first 72 hours. >> In fact, the only witness who provided
00:36:42
testimony that someone other than Pierre Hopp was the killer was Pierre Hopp. During three days on the stand, he
00:36:50
repeated the action-packed account he had given detectives about having shootouts with shadowy figures. Now, he
00:36:58
said he was sure they were sent by the [music] Department of Energy. >> It sounds like there'd be a trail of
00:37:04
bodies, but yet is there proof of this trail of bodies anywhere to your knowledge?
00:37:10
>> No. Which further made him believe it was the Department of Energy? >> And what about all that evidence
00:37:17
investigators found? >> The DOE planted them there. It's all a frame. All that stuff is framed. The
00:37:24
banking stuff frame job. What's in my car? frame job. >> It was [music] difficult for me to
00:37:32
embrace Pierre's testimony. Do you think he himself believed some of the things he was saying were true? [music]
00:37:39
>> Oh, yeah, definitely. >> He was obsessed with the government. >> Samantha Spyell attests there were some
00:37:48
kernels of truth in his stories. Pierre mentioned that [music] his dad had ties to the CIA and I could tell that he
00:37:59
wanted his dad's approval. When his father died in 2023, his obituary stated he was a key player in
00:38:08
clandestine central intelligence agency operations during the 1980s. Hop also told Spyell that his sister was
00:38:16
going to star in a reality TV show. She got cast on a newlyweds reality show and
00:38:24
Pier was gonna be in it. Come to find out that was true. [music] >> In fact, both Hops and his father made
00:38:32
appearances on the second season of the Bravo TV series Newlyweds the first year.
00:38:38
>> Start by filling that up. >> Pierre was even shown giving his brother-in-law a cooking lesson.
00:38:43
>> More black pepper. But prosecutor Ben Leenig argued any grains of authenticity
00:38:50
in Hopsh's life were far outweighed by deceit. You called him a lying liar who lies about lying.
00:38:59
>> Right. Lie, lie, lie, lie. Hundreds of lies we found on him. His life was a con.
00:39:09
>> On November 24th, 2021, [music] Judge Brian Hill would get the case. None of Pierre Hopscha's family members attended
00:39:17
his trial. The judge made his ruling guilty on all counts. The judge when he issued his ruling said his decision was
00:39:26
beyond a shadow of a doubt. Absolutely no doubt of [music] Pierre Hops's guilt. >> Yeah. Very satisfactory to hear that.
00:39:36
>> I wasn't surprised. And what was Pierre's reaction upon hearing that ruling? Well, he was visibly
00:39:43
disappointed. >> On April 15th, 2022, Pierre Hopp was sentenced to three life terms without
00:39:51
the possibility of parole. It was little comfort to those still mourning Henry, Jenny, and Emily.
00:40:01
>> I don't understand how there really could be justice. >> He's still alive and and they're not.
00:40:09
He took precious moments that we'll [music] never get. >> I want him to feel every pain possible
00:40:18
for what he did. >> Not enough bad things can happen for him. >> Nearly a decade after the murders, the
00:40:25
wounds are still raw. >> It's hard to think of them. [music] >> He was a really good man.
00:40:34
You don't replace a Henry Han. No. Pretty much every day I think of Henry and Jenny and Emily.
00:40:46
>> There's an old phrase that a good man and a good family lives for a limited time but a good name shall live forever.
00:40:57
They lived too short but their name lives on [music] forever. Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host,
00:41:55
Ann Marie Green, and today we're discussing the Han family murders. In March of 2016, the bodies of Dr. Henry
00:42:04
Han, his wife Jenny, and their 5-year-old daughter Emily were discovered wrapped in plastic in the
00:42:10
family's garage. Now, there is a lot to get into here. Uh, so joining me now is 48 Hours correspondent Natalie Morales,
00:42:17
who worked on this hour. Uh, Natalie, thanks for, uh, joining us again. Thanks for having me once again, Emory.
00:42:24
And of course, a reminder to everyone that if you haven't listened to the 48 hours episode that we're about to
00:42:30
discuss, head on over to your podcast feed, you'll find the full audio version there. Take a listen and then come on
00:42:37
back. So, shortly after police discover the bodies of Dr. Han and his wife, uh, Jenny and their daughter, um, a trail of
00:42:46
evidence led them to Pierre Hobsh. He's a former business associate of Dr. Hans.
00:42:53
And in the hour, the prosecutor called Pierre a lying liar who lies about lying. Uh it certainly seems like he was
00:43:04
able to spin stories quite well. Well enough to I mean endear himself to some pretty smart people. What do we actually
00:43:13
know about Pierre though and his connection to Dr. Han? >> Well, Dr. Dr. Henry Han had hired Pierre
00:43:19
to develop um a CBD product and it was part of his new business venture that he had started with a couple of other
00:43:27
partners. But he then fired Pierre once he discovered that Pierre had been using
00:43:33
his credit card to charge for escort services uh among other things on his business account. However, just weeks
00:43:42
before the murders, it seemed like Pierre was able to get back into Henry's good graces. Now, prosecutors, as you
00:43:49
mentioned, describe him as a lying liar who lies about lying, and they describe him as a career con man. Um, I should
00:43:58
point out he was never convicted of previous cons. But, uh, Pierre did tell authorities though that he didn't have a
00:44:06
college degree, but he lived in a college town in Arizona. He would go to the library a lot. He was self-taught.
00:44:13
He was fascinated with the idea of energy and technology. And according to prosecutors, this wasn't his first con.
00:44:21
Allegedly, Pierre had duped a group of investors in Arizona into giving him money to build this so-called perpetual
00:44:28
energy machine. And his story then just grew from there. You know, he Pierre is like one of those um sort of characters
00:44:36
that we see that you think, gosh, you were able to endear yourself to many, many people who are smart and who are
00:44:43
good with money. If only you had funneled that in a different direction, you know. But let's talk about this
00:44:50
perpetual energy machine. Pier's own attorney said in the hour that you don't have to be a scientist to know that a
00:44:56
perpetual energy machine does not exist. >> Yeah. It it implies it just, you know,
00:45:02
creates it. its own energy source. >> So according to the prosecution, Pierre apparently did demonstrations for this
00:45:09
group of investors back in Arizona. However, in those demos twice, they found an external energy source that was
00:45:17
sort of plugged into this so-called perpetual energy machine. The first time apparently there was, you know, like a
00:45:24
car battery that it was connected to. And the second time, um, investors actually traced back and they found what
00:45:32
were like wires running underground into this prototype. So, you know, we did try
00:45:39
to reach out to these investors in Arizona. Unfortunately, we didn't hear back from any of them. Um I I think what
00:45:45
was particularly challenging about this hour is of course you know there's a young child who's killed like he he
00:45:52
kills the entire family and I was hoping as the hour was unfolding to hear and they found Emily in the bedroom sleeping
00:46:01
or something like that. I just I thought why a child? I think that's the hardest
00:46:06
thing to try to understand. Wiping out the whole family the way he did and little Emily who was just three days shy
00:46:13
of her sixth birthday. You know, hard to believe that money was purely the motive
00:46:18
here, but prosecutors believe that Pierre had targeted Henry Han because he was flat broke. I think he had $500 left
00:46:27
in his bank account, according to the prosecutor. Also, uh, Pier was apparently desperate for a real
00:46:34
relationship. So much to the point, as we told you, he was hiring escorts to have companionship and apparently he
00:46:42
fell in love, according to the prosecutor, with one of the escorts and outright gave that that escort a $10,000
00:46:50
payment. So, there went more money. Now, Pierre had told people, including uh his
00:46:56
friend TJ Darita, that he wanted to move to Russia because he felt he clicked more with the women there. A and
00:47:04
Pierre's friend TJ uh also told investigators that Pierre confessed to him, as you saw in the hour, about the
00:47:11
murders. But he said in that confession that his his motive was purely financial, that he planned to drain the
00:47:18
money out of Dr. Henry Han's account. He said that, you know, as long as he felt
00:47:23
like he kept making these transfers, perhaps um no one would be the wiser for it. You know, once he did start to try
00:47:30
to make those transfers, I believe the first amount was $72,000 that he tried to take out of Dr. Henry Han's account.
00:47:37
Well, that triggered a bank fraud alert, as you would hope. The banks are on to this kind of thing, and that transaction
00:47:45
never went through. I mean, I don't know why he thought that would work. I literally get a bank fraud alert when I
00:47:52
try to buy like a train ticket. I mean the the banks are really sensitive to this stuff these days. Right. So
00:48:00
>> right especially this went against Dr. Han's usual I mean if usually if there
00:48:04
were big transfers like that maybe it would pass but in this case Dr. Henry Han wasn't that kind of man to just
00:48:11
transfer that amount of money like that. So here's the thing about the scene. This is a guy who, you know, thinks he's
00:48:17
planned everything out, but then he's left with a very, I mean, messy crime scene that he he tries to clean up, but
00:48:25
he's kind of unsuccessful. Investigators find bleach stains and bloody sheets in
00:48:30
in the laundry room, and very quickly, police zero in on Pierre is a person of interest.
00:48:36
>> Yeah, I mean, that's right. The prosecutors believe that, you know, Pierre's plan was to get rid of the
00:48:41
bodies, to clean up the scene, make it look like the Hans were actually missing instead of dead. But he doesn't account
00:48:50
for the weight of the bodies and being able to fit the bodies, all three of them, in his car. Keep in mind, there
00:48:57
was this business meeting that very next morning, and Mark and Mara Palumbo, friends and business partners of Dr.
00:49:05
Hans, they start to call and they're worried and that's when they send Don Goldberg, you know, who's such a good
00:49:11
friend of Dr. Hans, to go check out the house and that's when investigators have
00:49:16
then called to the house and they discover the bodies and this horrific crime scene. The other kind of component
00:49:24
to this investigation is that there was a huge amount of digital evidence that led investigators to Pierre. So, this is
00:49:31
a guy who's supposed to be pretty savvy, right, when it comes to computers, but he leaves like this tremendous digital
00:49:37
footprint, >> right? Let's let's start first with the fact that he had placed this key logger
00:49:44
device on Dr. Han's computer, but also he left it plugged into his computer so that all the keystrokes were basically
00:49:51
tracing right back to Pierre's computer. Um, security video was also found placing him at an Arizona gun store 4
00:49:59
days prior to the murders, purchasing ammunition and two firearms, including the alleged murder weapon. Now,
00:50:08
investigators also traced the plastic wrap that was found used to wrap the bodies to a Home Depot in Oceanside.
00:50:15
That's Southern California, right near where Pierre lived. So, they go to that Home Depot and as you know with Home
00:50:21
Depot, they have great surveillance footage. So, they had footage of him leaving the Home Depot with that plastic
00:50:27
wrap and also duct tape. I was also impressed with how rapidly Home Depot was able to pinpoint where these
00:50:36
purchases were made. I feel like I've done several postmortems where we've talked about Home Depot being like
00:50:44
clutch when it came to investigating. It's remarkable. I mean, I just reported on another story in the Fandrich case
00:50:52
where um the video surveillance footage from Home Depot was crystal clear. It could spot the suspect at the time
00:51:00
leaving with a big package of goods and even having the receipts. You know, Home
00:51:04
Depot keeps track of the receipts. So, once they identify the time of purchase, they can go back into their receipts and
00:51:10
their computer system and that's where they then are able to track the surveillance footage as well.
00:51:15
>> Um, it's unbelievable. And then Pierre was also captured on surveillance camera
00:51:20
meeting his father in a Walmart parking lot. That's where um the father gave him
00:51:26
two big duffel bags, which investigators say were go bags. Go bags meaning, you know, a bag that had enough supplies and
00:51:34
clothing that he could live on for months. Um we should say Pierre's father was not charged uh with any crime in
00:51:41
that. There was no indication that that Pierre's father was involved in any way according to the prosecutor. But Pierre
00:51:50
also took with him the victim's phones. Um he had wrapped the phones in in aluminum foil trying to evade any sort
00:52:00
of tracking. >> I had no idea wrapping phones in aluminum foil was a thing, but it it
00:52:06
doesn't seem like it would work. Not always. And in this case, you know, it was it was maybe not wrapped well
00:52:13
enough, but investigators were able to track one of the phones. [music] It was pinging all the way to Oceanside,
00:52:19
California. Yeah. It actually became really sort of pivotal when it comes to the investigation. So, after the
00:52:25
breaker, we're going to talk about that. We're also going to talk about his defense in court.
00:52:32
Welcome back. So investigators closed in on Pierre at a gas station in the Oceanside, California area. He was
00:52:39
arrested nearly 48 hours after the murder. Not a lot of time goes by and ultimately the evidence points to Pierre
00:52:48
and no one else as the Hans killer. >> Yeah. I mean, and the evidence, there was plenty of it right in Pierre's car.
00:52:55
I mean, they found Henry's wallet, his credit card, social security number, an expended shell casing, which would trace
00:53:03
back to the bullets that were found in the victims, the victim's phones, and as I pointed out earlier, all wrapped in
00:53:11
aluminum foil as if trying to evade being tracked. Um, they also uncovered some pretty damning internet searches,
00:53:19
according to investigators Pierre made in the hours following the murder. You know, he asked, "Is a car searched when
00:53:25
entering Tijuana? How do crime scene investigations work? How long does it take for fingerprints to process?" And
00:53:32
the the interesting one, he consulted an online psychic named Count Marco, and he
00:53:39
asked, "Will I get caught for what I did?" And Count Marco replied, "What did you do, Pierre?" Well, you know, and
00:53:46
think investigators were the ones who were able to answer that, "Yes, Pierre, you will get caught." And he did.
00:53:52
Indeed. Absolutely. It's a very smart response and I wonder how much those psychics hear. Um, and you know what I
00:54:02
mean? And you wouldn't want >> the confessions they get. >> Can you imagine? And also, you would I'm
00:54:07
sure they don't want to be wrapped up or implicated in anything. So, just, you know, keep it vague. Keep it vague. So,
00:54:14
as we discussed a little bit earlier, Pierre had actually confessed to murdering the Han family to a friend of
00:54:21
his, TJ Darita, just hours afterwards. While Pierre was in custody, detectives got a phone call from TJ who then tells
00:54:30
them about Pierre's confession. But he waited 2 days, Natalie. And I kept on wondering like what what are you doing?
00:54:39
What took you so long? >> I know. And we asked TJ Darita that point blank. You know, he's he said that
00:54:46
Pierre always told these bizarre, outlandish stories. So, he wasn't quite sure what to believe at that point. He
00:54:54
was making phone calls to all of Dr. Henry Han's office, to his business associates, trying to track him down to
00:55:00
see what was true, what wasn't true. Now, once TJ learned that the murders had happened, he said he then started to
00:55:08
worry that the police would think that he was somehow involved. So TJ said he was so scared he called his brother who
00:55:16
happens to be a judge. His brother told him, "You need to go to the police right
00:55:20
away. Tell your story. You know, make sure they know what's what's real and what happened here." The defense at
00:55:27
trial, of course, they they saw this as as an opportunity to poke holes in in what TJ told in his testimony. They
00:55:34
questioned, "If you were so scared, why didn't you go to police right away?" Because police would would have
00:55:39
protected him. And they also questioned TJ's credibility because TJ had worked in the porn industry in in the marketing
00:55:48
area of the porn industry. As TJ said, he worked with some rough around the edges kinds of friends. The judge felt
00:55:57
though that that line of questioning was irrelevant and the defense had to concede in this case much of what TJ
00:56:05
Darita testified to was corroborated by the evidence and even in those text exchanges with Pierre in the aftermath.
00:56:15
Um, it seems like before learning about the murders, TJ had sort of some sympathy for Pierre. Do we know, I mean,
00:56:25
how this friendship started, what the nature of their friendship was, why he kind of felt sorry for him? TJ says he
00:56:32
felt sorry for Pierre because he saw Pierre as being very socially awkward. You know, Pierre would share with him
00:56:40
the stories of not being able to get a date, not being able to have a real relationship, and and TJ said he was
00:56:46
always that guy in high school that stuck up for the kids who were bullied. He was just that kind of guy. So, he
00:56:53
tried to make him feel like he belonged. Pierre would send him pictures of himself working out at 4:00 a.m. looking
00:57:00
all buff just to try to make himself feel like he and TJ could hang and be friends. TJ said he just kind of went
00:57:08
along with it because he felt bad for him. >> Wow. Um, so the thing about Pierre
00:57:16
though is he strikes me once again as one of those characters who thinks he's a little bit
00:57:23
smarter than he actually is. Right? So he waves his Miranda rights and he talks to detectives without his attorney
00:57:32
present. Um, I want to play a clip of the detectives questioning Pierre about the Han murders.
00:57:39
>> Obviously, you're suspecting it's me. I guess that's why you're you're asking it
00:57:43
like that. You're the last person who is there with him. What happened? >> I no clue that.
00:57:54
Oh my gosh. Everything was perfectly fine when I left. Everything was perfectly fine when
00:58:02
I left. So, just a reminder for those who watch the episode, Pierre admits he was at the
00:58:07
house. He'd stayed with them the night before, but there he is talking to investigators and he's trying to make up
00:58:15
this, you know, trying to tell them that he's >> clueless in all of this. And he spins
00:58:21
this fantastical story uh about how he was being targeted by these shadowy figures that were wanting his um his
00:58:29
perpetual energy machine. and and he said that he had engaged in three different shootouts and and that he felt
00:58:37
like his life was in danger as well as the life of his father and his sister. So he said he was afraid for them. And I
00:58:45
asked his defense attorney in the hour, well then if he tells this whole fantastical story, you would assume
00:58:51
there would be a trail of bodies. And you know, she had to acknowledge, of course, there was there was no such
00:58:58
record of any of that. >> Yeah. I mean, three different shootouts, that would be pretty easy for police to
00:59:05
verify. >> Yeah, that sounded like a a spy thriller more than it was actual an actual life.
00:59:11
>> Yeah. So, ultimately though, Pierre is charged with three counts of firstdegree
00:59:17
murder. The DA's office agrees to wave the death penalty in exchange for a more expedient bench trial, which means it's
00:59:25
only a judge, no jury. A judge is going to render the verdict. uh Pierre decides
00:59:29
to take the stand. What did he hope to convey to the judge? You know, at least when you're taking
00:59:37
the stand in front of a jury, there's a possibility that one person may be influenced, but a judge, I mean, that's
00:59:46
that's quite a challenge. His defense attorney said that he wanted to be vindicated. He really seemed to believe
00:59:54
what he was saying. Now, I think he also believed that he could convince the courts. I mean, here's a guy he's, as
01:00:02
you said, very persuasive. He he's managed to convince allegedly, you know, these investors who went along with his
01:00:10
so-called energy machine plan back when he was living in Arizona. So, maybe he thought, well, you know, I can convince
01:00:16
the court as well. Um he shared a lot of detail in his testimony though a lot of
01:00:23
it didn't make sense according to to the prosecutor Ben Leidden. Pierre's explanation on the stand for the murders
01:00:30
was that he was being framed by the Department of Energy that any incriminating physical or digital
01:00:37
evidence he said had been planted by the Department of Energy. Again, there's no
01:00:42
evidence pointing to the Department of Energy in any of this. his defense attorney asked Pierre on the stand if he
01:00:50
had ever been diagnosed with a mental illness. Pierre denied that. So, um, you know, I think she was trying to allude
01:00:57
to the fact that Pierre perhaps might have had an undiagnosed mental illness, >> right? Giving him some sort of excuse, I
01:01:06
I guess in a way for for the behavior. >> Yeah. Uh, and then Pierre was found guilty of of murdering the Han family on
01:01:14
April 15th, 2022. He sentenced to three life terms without the possibility of parole. So, he appeals the conviction
01:01:22
through the California courts. And while his appeal was pending, he also petitioned the US Supreme Court to
01:01:29
release him. In March of 2025, the court denied his final petition. So, is there
01:01:35
any further legal action that Pierre can take at this point? >> Well, I believe that he could file other
01:01:41
petitions or motions perhaps based on, you know, if there's new information or evidence, but all of that again is is
01:01:48
hypothetical. You know, whatever legal recourse he thinks he might have though, um, you know, there's just so much
01:01:55
evidence as we see in this case against him, it's hard to believe that any further motions that anything could come
01:02:01
of that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, to hear Dr. Han's friends talk about him. I mean, he
01:02:09
wasn't just a nice guy and a good friend. He really did change people's lives. And here's a guy who a little bit
01:02:17
later on in life finds the love of his life and has this beautiful child. I mean, these are people doing everything
01:02:25
right. There just so much potential cut short. And I think that's truly who Dr. Henry Han and his whole family was I
01:02:34
mean Dr. Henry Han really believed that he could help people and was doing that.
01:02:40
We talked to a few of the cancer survivors that he worked with who talked so lovingly about his healing powers.
01:02:47
They believed, you know, that he really was the real deal and um in the darkest moments of their lives, he was the one
01:02:55
who was there for them. And yeah, she's hard to even imagine the loss of little Emily, you know, as I said, just a
01:03:02
couple of days before her birthday. I mean, I think that's especially heartbreaking. And I think I'll end this
01:03:08
by, you know, saying again what Don Goldberg said, a good man's name is his legacy. Nearly a decade later, they're
01:03:18
all remembered by those who knew and love them. >> Yeah, that that was very [music] very
01:03:23
obvious. Um, it w it was a really good story, Natalie. Thank you, Amory. And to our listeners, uh, if you like this
01:03:31
podcast, please [music] rate and review on Apple Podcast or on Spotify.