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Hamish Kerr: The Journey to Becoming an Olympic Champion

November 16, 2025 / 02:04:25

This episode features Hamish Kerr, the Olympic gold medalist in high jump, discussing his journey from the Commonwealth Games to winning gold at the Paris Olympics. Key topics include his experiences at the World Championships, his coaching changes, and the mental challenges faced during competitions.

Kerr reflects on his emotional rollercoaster during the qualifying rounds of the Olympics, where he faced significant pressure and self-doubt. He shares how he overcame these challenges with the support of his coach, Jimmy, and his friends, ultimately leading to his victory.

The conversation also touches on Kerr's training regimen, his relationship with his girlfriend Maddie Wilson, and the importance of mental preparation in high-stakes competitions. He emphasizes the significance of crowd engagement and the joy of performing in front of an audience.

Throughout the episode, Kerr discusses his aspirations for future competitions, including aiming for a jump of 240 cm, and his desire to inspire the next generation of athletes in New Zealand.

Listeners gain insight into the life of a high-performance athlete, the sacrifices made, and the dedication required to reach the top of their sport.

TLDR

Hamish Kerr discusses his Olympic journey, mental challenges, and future goals in high jump.

Episode

2:04:25

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Zealand, it all comes from here. That's Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that

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for days. That's the boys who got the hole in one in to Finn. How's the performance going?

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first. >> Hey Mish Kerr, welcome back to my podcast. >> Yeah, thanks for having me back. I mean,

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yeah, I'm stoked to be here. >> Well, last time last time you came around to my house and it was in the

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spare bedroom at home and we had no videos. Um, now we're in a studio and we

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got the full setup. >> Yeah, Kanye was jumping around. We were sort of trying to show him away and I

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think you were trying to fiddle with the the video and trying to work it out and

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it was actually I think it was still runners only back then. So yeah, to be back when it's um not just runners and

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everybody else, that's that's pretty special. >> Yeah, there's been a bit of a glow up

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for the podcast in the last 3 years since you were on. But um more importantly, um my god, the um the the

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list of achievements in your life since the last appearance and now last time you came on, you just won the gold medal

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for the high jump at the Manchester Commonwealth Games. >> Birmingham. >> Oh, Birmingham. Sorry.

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>> Strong start. >> Start again. a better podcast would start again, but

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we're 49 seconds in. [ __ ] it. Let's stick with it. >> Yeah. Okay. Com games. Yeah.

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>> So, so go at the com games. Um, since then, well, for starters, like to time

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stamp this conversation, it's early October. You've just come back from >> Tokyo. Yep. Tokyo World Champs. So,

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yeah, first ever World Championship win for me. So, yeah, a lot of things have happened. Um, which I'm sure we'll get

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into, but uh, yeah, it's it's been pretty special like the last couple years. um even reflecting on you know

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what we' chatted about uh 3 years ago compared to now is has been has been pretty fascinating. So yeah I'm looking

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forward to getting into it. >> M so the win at Tokyo also the gold Olympic gold medal at Paris in 2024 gold

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at world indoor champs 2024 um Hellburgg sportsman of the year 2025 like you're

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you're the undisputed world high jump champ right now. right now. Yeah, I am. Which is, yeah, it's

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it's pretty crazy to think that like even at the start of my career, um, you

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know, to have one of those achievements, uh, would have been a massive honor. Uh,

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and to be here with with all of them is is is just something that I, yeah, I just pinch myself every day. I'm just so

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grateful for it. >> So, it's been, say, 13 14 months since the win at Paris. How how often do you

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think about that? >> Um, uh, not a huge amount to be honest. Like, I think, uh, I get reminded of it

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constantly on tour. uh you know, every comp I go to now is, you know, I get introduced as the Olympic champion and

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and and everyone kind of wants to wants to have a piece of my thoughts for for the fact that that is that is what I did

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last year. Um, but I think for me, you know, I I feel like I'm I'm so happy

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with with the progress and and where I'm at and and I think that that was such an

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important stepping stone for me and and something that will always be my greatest achievement. Uh but at the same

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time, you know, this year was super busy as well and and we had to just get back

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on the on the horse at some at a certain point and and almost leave that that championship behind uh and really kind

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of work out what we needed to do to to achieve all the next goals. So yeah, in these these small kind of fleeting

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moments where I do have time off. Uh I'm I'm on a small break at the moment. I I

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can sit there and reflect on, you know, all of the things that have happened. Uh

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but at the same time, you know, we we start working out what's next and and how we kind of distill down that success

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and and continue to sort of I suppose, you know, get more of it in the future. >> It's funny like from a psychological

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standpoint because I've had um yeah, so you you have this massive win and you're

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not dwelling on it. You got to park it and move on. I've had so many high performers on the podcast and they talk

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about like for example, I had Lori Mains on the old All Black coach a few weeks ago. Um and he said most days he still

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thinks about the 95 World Cup. So 30 years on it's like a a a you know a blip

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in his record or whatever >> or a fail and it still haunts him. >> Yeah. I think like I think your failures

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haunt you more than your successes probably. You know they're the ones you think about more as a as a high

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performance athlete or I certainly do. Um but at the same time you know like after after um after Paris that was that

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was probably the first time that I I really was like kind of overroared by an achievement that I' I'd gotten. Uh and

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then yeah, it did take a long time for me to kind of sit with that and contend with that and and work out what was

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next. Um cuz it yeah it is it is weird when you're you know you're you're

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working towards something over so many years and and the pinnacle is always to you know you're always told that the

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pinnacle is the Olympics and the pinnacle is is is winning that um that title and so you kind of get there and

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and yeah it does it does take a while to kind of sit with that and and it does sort of feel a bit weird at times but

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yeah I think I think that you know as as athletes we're hungry uh and we're we're

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always going to want to push on and and get more as well. Have have you achieved

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um you know have you ticked off what you wanted to or is it more? >> Um >> more than what you ever imagined?

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>> I think I think the titles are more than I've ever imagined for sure. Like I I

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think that >> I mean look I I would if you'd asked me every year from about 2018 all the way

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to now. Um you know what my expectation was going to be of my career. uh you know I mean you asked me in 2018 I was I

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I'd sort of just started to take the sport seriously and and you know I finished my university degree I moved to

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Christ Church and and started training full-time and the goal there was was to make the Olympics uh you know to to go

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to Tokyo 2020 and and and have that that amazing um you know performance and achievement and and then kind of move on

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and get on with the rest of my life and and then I did you know pretty well there. I I made the final and came 10th

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and and then and then it was kind of like wow, you know, I think I could actually do this this, you know,

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full-time. And then it was how do I, you know, support myself and and and get the

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right team of people around me that I can do this long term. And then and then, you know, every year from there,

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it's it's been about something bigger and bigger and bigger. And I I think

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that, you know, the the titles are are massive, but at the same time, um, deep down, I know I can jump higher. And so

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that's sort of one of the things that if you'd probably said at the start of the

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career, um you know, I was going to jump as high as I I would, I'd be really

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stoked. But now I'm here, I want more. So yeah, I I I feel like there's still a

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lot um that gets me out of bed in the morning, and I still really feel motivated to to want to train and and

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achieve as much as possible. >> So your personal best at the moment is >> 236.

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>> And what's the height of a door frame? Standard door frame? >> A door frame is like 198. So yeah, it's

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so I'm I'm well over the old door frame spec which is which is quite nice. But

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um I think I think for me um 240 is is the next big goal. Uh and that's the height of a ceiling, a standard ceiling.

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So yeah, so I'm going from doors to ceilings. Um and yeah, I think I think for me that's a that's a height that um

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you know in the in the history of our event has has been a a pretty kind of top mark and and something that has

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really stamped your mark as one of the best or greatest high jumpers ever. So yeah, for me that's what I'm I'm aiming

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towards next. Uh and yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to the challenge of trying to trying to do that.

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>> What's your height in centimeters? >> I am 198. So yeah, I'm I'm pretty tall.

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Uh but I feel like I'm like the perfect height cuz I don't have to like I don't

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I don't really struggle traveling. I don't really struggle with door frames

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and and just moving around. But um at the same time, it's it's obviously

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pretty good for my for my event. >> The world record is um 245. Yeah, it was

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set in the '90s by some Cuban Dave. >> Yeah. Yeah. How is he an outlier? How is

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that record stood for 30 years? >> Yeah. Look, I think um he there's there's two guys who kind of

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stand above above the rest of um the high jumpers in history. It's him and a

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guy called Mutz Basham from Qatar. Uh Mutez is is just coming to the end of his career. So, he's he's about to

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retire in the next, you know, few years. Uh I would I would predict. Uh I I think

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he keeps thinking he's going to retire every year and then he never does. But

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I'm I'm hoping he retires soon. But um it's yeah, it's it's those two who have

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been kind of the guys going between about 243 and 245 uh for most of their career. And and I think high jump's a

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funny one. Like I mean it's not like running or other events where we have these big technological advancements in

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the shoes and and in the training methods. It's such a it's such a rhythm

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and timing based event that um you know we we kind of resist technology a lot. uh cuz every time shoe brands want to

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bring out these new shoes that are supposedly faster and bouncier and whatever, it actually it destroys our

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rhythm and destroys the way that we've kind of developed our technique over the

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years. And so a lot of the guys are pretty resistant to um anytime anyone wants to change shoes. So yeah, I think

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I think that that kind of leads into the reason why this this record has stood for so long. Uh but also, you know, when

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you're when you're starting to jump that high, um it takes just such a toll on

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your body that it's not only, you know, being able to get up there and actually

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have the the physical ability to to do it, but it's actually being able to have

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the the mental strength to to take that one or two opportunities that you'll

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have and and actually make it make it a reality. Uh Mutz, the the Qatari, he's

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attempted the world record three times. Uh and on and I think about two of those

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times he's had pretty bad injuries just because of the force that's going

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through his legs. Uh and so even for me, you know, at 236, uh I I feel it the next day, you know, after after jumping

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236 at world champs, I was sore for a week. So, you know, to be able to actually get up to those heights and

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then actually be able to make the most of that form you've got is Yeah, it's

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pretty it's a pretty hard thing to do. >> What are the injury concerns? Is it

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ankles, back? Um, it kind of depends like athlete to athlete, but for me it's

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always been ankle and knee. Um, luckily touchwood I've I haven't had a huge

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amount of back problems so far in my career. But, you know, for everybody it's something different, right? Like

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you know, you talk to all the boys, they're all they're all bandaged up and

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and held together with tape and and you know, it's just the I suppose the the

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thing we do to ourselves to do what we love. But um yeah, it's it's pretty it's

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pretty tough. like um they I think they reckon that about 10 times your body weight goes through your your foot and

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your ankle in takeoff. Um so if you think that you know for me I'm you know I'm not I'm not the heaviest guy in the

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world but you know at about 85 kgs that's about 850 kgs worth of force going through my ankle you know and and

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and having to do that 10 to 12 times in a comp. It's it definitely takes it out

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of you. So yeah it's it's it's something that you want to make sure that you're

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minimizing the effect it has. U but also you know it's something that you can't

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really train for. you know, trying to do 80 850 kg squats or, you know, deadlifts

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or whatever it is in the gym. Like, it just doesn't work. So, you just have to

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you have to just do a lot of jumping and and trust your training and and hope it

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all works out on the day. >> And you're you're turning 30 soon, eh?

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>> Yeah, don't remind me. >> What does um what does what does age

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mean in terms of high jumpers? When do you guys typically peak? >> Yeah, it remains to be seen. I think I

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think these days um you know, a lot of athletes are competing a lot older in their career. Uh we're definitely seeing

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this trend of of guys kind of competing well into their 30s, but I still think it's a bit of a lottery. Um you know, I

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I I get the sense that uh you know, some guys will be able to continue deep into

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their 30s. Um some guys just won't. Uh and so for me uh I'm pretty fully

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committed to the next Olympics. So that's 20 that's 20 28. I will be 32. Uh

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cuz I think that that's um that's definitely a a time where my body will

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still be good and I'll still be able to kind of get the things I want out of it.

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But I think after that it starts becoming a wee bit more of a lottery. Uh and so we'll just you know we'll sit

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down as a team and and work out if that's something that we we think's going to happen. But I mean for now uh

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you know coming I'm I've actually only just turned 29. Thank you. So 30 by the

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way. But um but yeah for now there's no yeah it's not it's not something I'm cur

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um but yeah I think for now there's no there's no evidence that um that any

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sort of aging is is taking its toll. Yeah, I'm sure it's it's one of those

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things that I'll probably wake up one morning and it will hit me like a ton of

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bricks. >> Those um those next Olympics, they're going to be sick. E LA um they've got

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all these massive billion dollar projects underway. U Yes. What's the goal there? Like 240.

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>> Yeah, I think so. I mean, obviously, first and foremost, I'd love to defend

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my title. Um I think that that's something that is is Yeah, it gets me out of bed in the morning for sure. Like

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I love the idea of being able to go there and especially knowing that there's a there's a couple of real top

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Americans. I think it would be great to to beat them in their in their home home

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arena. Uh but at the same time, the Olympic record is 239. And so to be able to jump 240 at the at the Olympics and

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and break the Olympic record would would be something that I would uh consider pretty special. And I suppose the

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reasoning behind that is um a world record is the best that someone's done on any given day. Whereas the Olympic

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record is the best that anyone's given on the day that it counts. And so for

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me, that's that's the most important thing is is the the way I've set up my

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career is I I will win when it matters. Um I won't win all the time, but when it

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matters and and when the the stakes are really high, that's that's when I bring

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out my best performance. And you know, you look at the Olympic record and the history the Olympics has. Um you know,

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for for every high jumper in history to have known that there's one day every

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four years that they really have to peak. Um, if I could take that record and and say that I was the one who was

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able to pick the best and and prepare the best, then I think that would tie really nicely into kind of the I suppose

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the mantra and the the the story that I want to tell of my career. >> Yeah. I'm so excited. Um, this is going

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to come later in the podcast, but we're going to drill into that Paris event

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because you almost choked. >> Yeah. >> Like in the in the in the qualifying

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rounds like you you lucky to make it through and then I mean the rest is history. Um, but that must have been

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terrifying. Oh, one um massive change in the last three years since you were on the podcast is um new coach.

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>> Yes. >> So, last time you're on the podcast, you're with your old coach um of six

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years, Terry. >> Um now you've got uh James. >> Yep. >> Jimmy Jimmy

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>> Jimmy Sandalins. Yeah. >> Yeah. Who's um your girlfriend's coach

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as well? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Um Yeah. What was the thought process that went into that?

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>> Yeah. So, um there was quite a lot. So I uh last time I was here 2022 um coming

00:14:00

off the end of of that year I experienced quite a lot of success. Um I I won bronze medal at world indoors

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that year which was my first ever global medal. Um and then and then won the com

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games which which is you know obviously a great achievement and and something I was super proud of and and I I felt like

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it was a real step forward in my career. But also in and amongst that um we also

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had a world champs which I failed to qualify for the final. Um and the heights that I cleared that season uh

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compared to even the season before uh weren't as good. And so I think I think

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that we kind of had rose tinted glasses a wee bit in terms of my progression uh that year. I think I think that we we

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achieved a lot. Um but the the level of progression and and the kind of the the intent we had behind where I was getting

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those next centimeters and and what was next was was just starting to lack a little bit. And so it sort of didn't

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take until 2023 to to kind of realize when that really hit home. And that that hit home and uh in Bordapest at World

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Championships where again I didn't make the final. Um and that was something

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that was quite unexpected for me. I was I was about fifth in the world. Uh I jumped 231 232 that year. Um I I then

00:15:08

ended up jumping you know 222 in that that final uh in that qualifying round in in Budapest and and bombed out pretty

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badly. And and I think that that kind of that really made me realize that I'd

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probably been taking my foot off the gas a wee bit in the last couple years just

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with the success I've been having um at those those other competitions. And and

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I think I was I I got a real sense I was turning into this kind of like this journeyman athlete who when like when

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conditions were bad, when it was raining, when everyone else didn't want to be there, I was kind of like the guy

00:15:39

who'd get up and and and steal a win and and steal. >> You even had a nickname rainy man.

00:15:43

>> Yeah. Yeah, I did. Like the boys started calling me that near the end of the

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season and I didn't like it ei it it it kind of made me realize that like I was

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this athlete who I was hoping that everyone would jump bad rather than expecting everyone would jump good and

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then also wanting to be a part of that. And so, um, yeah, that was pretty tough.

00:16:02

Like, and then I think I think there was that, but then there was also, um, the whole case of,

00:16:07

uh, needing to good. Um, no worries. Little coffee break. Yeah. So, I think I think that was that and then combined

00:16:20

with the fact that Terry was was starting to look at wanting to retire. um and he'd started having those

00:16:25

conversations with me around, you know, what was next and and who would who would sort of start uh running my

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program after that. Um yeah, it essentially made me realize that after Budapest that it was it was probably

00:16:36

time to to start moving into a into a new process. And and the big reason for that was that um in those those few

00:16:42

years as well, what had happened is I'd started traveling a lot more. And so

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because I was traveling a lot more, my my team uh dynamic had to change. Uh it became became much more around how did

00:16:54

the the team coach or the team leader of the the team coordinate everybody else behind the scenes. So, you know, my

00:17:00

physio and my nutritionist and my mental skills coach and all these other guys who previously would just deal with me

00:17:05

on a one-to-one basis. Um, and then Terry would deal with me on a one-to-one basis. It was it was much more around

00:17:11

how did Terry deal with all of these guys collectively, cook up a really nice plan and then deliver it to me. And and

00:17:16

that just was a it was just a different way of working. Um, and so so that's

00:17:20

where James came in. He is someone I'm I'm I've known very well over a number

00:17:24

of years and he's he's a really good friend of mine and we kind of came through sport together. Um me as an

00:17:30

athlete, him as a him as a coach. Uh he he was studying um sport science when I was kind of just starting out as as

00:17:37

trying to make it as a high performance athlete and and sort of over the years um he's he's gotten better and better

00:17:41

roles and I've obviously experienced better and better results. And so, yeah,

00:17:45

it kind of got to this point where he was working in my team already, um, and had a really good understanding of of

00:17:50

everybody's role and what they were doing. So, we brought him on board, um, which was a bit it was a bit

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nerve-wracking. Uh, obviously it was, you know, less than 12 months before the Olympics uh, when he fully kind of took

00:18:00

the reigns. But, uh, credits to Terry. Terry really was helpful in that that process and he aided Jimmy and and and

00:18:07

mentored Jimmy through kind of the process of of handing over his his program. It wasn't it wasn't so much a a

00:18:13

change in approach or or anything. It was more what has Terry done up till now that we can really distill down and and

00:18:19

make into an amazing product. And so that happened. Um and obviously we got the results and then this year we've

00:18:26

continued to push on and and get some amazing things. But yeah, I think it just kind of goes to show that, you

00:18:30

know, Terry was was an amazing guy for me when I was when I was coming coming through the sport and and as I as I got

00:18:36

better and better, um you know, he he started to I started to outgrow him a wee bit. Um, and that that kind of that

00:18:42

role and those needs that I had as an athlete changed. Uh, and and thankfully, uh, he was he was pretty open at kind of

00:18:48

discussing that and and making me realize that maybe I needed to change. >> It seems like it was just a natural sort

00:18:53

of conscious uncoupling. There were no big fireworks or >> No, no, it's not. I mean, I think, you

00:18:59

know, in sport when when you change coaches, a lot of the time, you know, you're you're firing your coach and and

00:19:05

getting a new one and and, you know, there's there's some big stuff kind of

00:19:07

happening in the in the background. I think I think Terry um you know, credit to him. He he was able to to you know,

00:19:14

break it down for me and and and I sort of had the realization that that this just wasn't working and and we could

00:19:19

kind of work through that process together rather than me just working through it with the with the new guys.

00:19:23

So, yeah, there was a there was definitely a number of months there where it was me, Jimmy, and Terry all

00:19:28

kind of working together. Uh and then and then as it got closer to the games, um Terry stepped back. But, uh also at

00:19:34

the games last year, um Terry was there. So he was in the stadium when I when I won and and so it was real special to be

00:19:39

able to share with uh share that moment with him and and then celebrate with him

00:19:42

afterwards as well. So >> Oh, that's wonderful. >> That's wonderful. And yeah, so so Jimmy,

00:19:47

you coach now. You guys were like good mates beforehand. How do you um Yeah. How do you navigate that?

00:19:53

>> Yeah. Well, we actually used to live together. Um so when I when I moved down

00:19:56

to Christ Church, um we we lived together. Uh I needed a place to stay. He had a spare room in his in his um in

00:20:02

his flat. And so it was me, uh, Jimmy, and and Hannah, his then girlfriend, now wife, uh, living together. And so that

00:20:09

was that was good fun. Um, we we got to know each other pretty well, uh, through

00:20:12

that time. And, and I think that also kind of really, um, it really helps us now that we have to balance these

00:20:18

different roles because we we used to kind of balance roles anyway, like, you know, flat mates and friends and and

00:20:23

training partners a little bit uh, back in the day. So yeah, now it's it's very

00:20:26

much like kind of depends on where I'm texting him. if it's, you know, if I'm

00:20:30

sharing memes on Instagram or Snapchatting him, it's slightly different to when I'm WhatsAppapping or

00:20:34

texting him. But, um, no, I think we managed it really well. And it's actually a massive benefit because it

00:20:38

means, um, you know, when I'm overseas, uh, one of the biggest problems I had

00:20:43

early on in my career was definitely like contending with the loneliness of being overseas. Uh, you know, you're

00:20:48

you're so far away from your support team and your support structure of your

00:20:51

your friends and your family and and you know, I I am on the road for long periods of time and it is an individual

00:20:56

sport. So that was really tough uh to begin with to to really kind of make that stuff work. And so now I'm in a

00:21:02

position where not only do I get my coach to come along with me, but he's actually a good mate. Uh and so yeah, we

00:21:07

just we just feel like it adds so much to the to the value of of what I do. And yeah, we're we're kind of just like two

00:21:12

Kiwi boys who who travel the world and and get to see kind of all these amazing sites. So super grateful for that. Um

00:21:18

but yeah, and as you mentioned as well, he he does coach my girlfriend. So um that's yeah, there's a lot of there's a

00:21:24

lot of dynam dynamics there. uh you know in terms of of her you know being my training partner essentially as as well

00:21:30

as my girlfriend and then us getting coached by the same people who's my mate. Um but I think I think that kind

00:21:36

of community feel and that that family feel is is what makes me really thrive. >> Does the nature of your um relationship

00:21:43

with him and the history make it easier or more difficult to have tough conversations? Um, I think it makes it

00:21:52

I mean he knows me very well. Um, and he knows the way I operate which I think in

00:21:56

in competition is is massive. You know, he can he can look at me without even saying anything and know how I'm

00:22:01

feeling. Um, you know, to be able to have that sort of level of support and and in in a competition in high jump, a

00:22:07

coach is vitally important because there's so many different dynamics happening. You know, I could be I could

00:22:12

be too hyped up. I could be not hyped enough. I could be running too fast, too slow, like, you know, my my positioning

00:22:18

might be wrong. There's so many different things that a coach has to react to and and confirm with an

00:22:21

athlete. Um, and that's not even to then add in all the mental stuff that's going

00:22:26

on. And so for him to be able to look at me and and know where I'm at and what's

00:22:30

happening. Um, and you know that that Paris Olympics qualifying is a perfect example of that. Um, I don't know if you

00:22:36

want to get into it now, but I mean he he was instrumental in in getting me through that. Um, so yeah, so I I think

00:22:42

I think it does really help. Um, and yeah, it's it's great as well because at

00:22:46

the end of the day, like, you know, he wants the best for me, but I also want the best for him. And so, if we, you

00:22:50

know, if we're both kind of building this amazing legacy and and you know, I'm getting the wins and and he's he's

00:22:55

getting the the props for those wins as well. I think it's it's a it's a cool

00:22:58

spot to be in. >> Oh, it's been an incredible journey that you've been on.

00:23:02

>> It's remarkable. You We'll get to the Paris stuff soon, but first of all, I

00:23:04

want to go want to go back. So, um, early years of Hamish Kur. So, your dad's a cardiologist,

00:23:09

>> mom's a speech therapist. She She couldn't even They didn't come to Paris,

00:23:13

but she couldn't even watch it on TV. >> She had to She had to go outside.

00:23:17

>> She was too nervous. Yeah. Yeah. So, >> terrible son. >> I know. Well, she was in Tokyo as well,

00:23:23

and she was telling me off cuz even Tokyo was stressful. Um, >> you finished 10th in Tokyo, eh?

00:23:28

>> No, this is Tokyo this time. So, um, yeah. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, mom and dad,

00:23:32

um, have always been my biggest my biggest supporters. I, you know, I I love what they do. And um yeah, I didn't

00:23:38

quite go down the medical pathway that that the rest of you know, their family have. But um but yeah, I think I think

00:23:44

one of the biggest things that like I got taught when I was a kid was um you know, if you're going to do something,

00:23:49

you do it to completion. It doesn't matter how well you do at it. Um you know, it doesn't matter what the outcome

00:23:53

is, so long as you finish what you do, then you can go and do something. And so a perfect example of that is is when I

00:23:58

was um when I was 5 years old, I was playing football and I I loved playing football. Um, but then about halfway

00:24:04

through the season, my mates at school convinced me that I should play rugby. Uh, and so I went home and I was like,

00:24:10

"Oh, mom, mom, I'm like, I don't want to play football anymore. I want to play

00:24:12

rugby." And she's like, "Yep, yeah, that's all good. Like, you can

00:24:14

definitely play, but you have to finish the season. So, you're playing next year." Uh, and so I think, you know, I I

00:24:19

even remember that was when I was like 5 years old. And I remember that like vividly now as as a moment where I kind

00:24:24

of realized that it is so important to be finishing things. Uh, and so I think, you know, for them that's the thing that

00:24:30

they love about where I'm at now with my sport is is, yeah, obviously I'm getting

00:24:34

these wins and I'm I'm doing all the stuff, but I found something I'm real

00:24:37

passionate about and and something that I want to work really hard at. Uh, and so I think for them, you know, obviously

00:24:42

nerves aside and and and and that kind of stress of of of what actually goes on in the competitions aside, like they're

00:24:48

just super proud of of what I do and I I really feel that. So yeah, I think I think that's something that was real

00:24:52

special about where we were growing up and it definitely shows. I mean, I've

00:24:55

got I've got three other siblings and they're all, you know, pretty pretty

00:24:58

high performing in their own rights in their various fields and we're all doing

00:25:01

different things, uh, which is quite cool. So, yeah, I I I really feel that. So, um, was super cool being able to

00:25:06

grow up in that space and and that challenge of of just making sure you're doing things as as best you can. Uh, and

00:25:12

then, yeah, I think it's definitely pushed well into my career. M >> why um if you drill down into why she

00:25:18

was unable to watch it like so I believe in the qualifying rounds um and we'll

00:25:22

get to this soon that you weren't doing very you you ended up winning gold but

00:25:25

you weren't doing very well in the qualifying. She had to like um like go outside and just get some fresh air.

00:25:30

>> Yeah. So I mean like high jumps pretty stressful event to watch cuz it's it's so obvious whether

00:25:36

it's pass fail, you know? You can't you can't really like >> you can't really try harder. You just

00:25:41

you just have to be in the right frame of mind. And um yeah, in that qualifying round, uh that was when mom went

00:25:46

outside. She her and dad were watching it, you know, in the middle of the night in in New Zealand. Um as we were

00:25:51

competing over in Paris and and they were sitting there on their little iPad watching on Sky and um yeah, I think

00:25:58

that was that after that second second attempt at 220 um where I missed it and then I only had one to one jump to go,

00:26:05

she she just she was like, I just can't do this anymore. And so she just walked

00:26:08

outside and was just looking at the stars and like just like breathing. And then I I think dad kind of called her

00:26:14

back in like it's all good. You got it. And so she kind of went oh you but I

00:26:19

think I think that's the thing like even um you know this year in Tokyo mom came

00:26:22

along and watched and um yeah her and her and Maddie my girlfriend were there uh which was super cool cuz they were

00:26:27

able to kind of support each other and I think mom started crying at about 2:31 in the final and was just like I don't

00:26:32

know why he does this. Like can't he just clear it first attempt? you know, at the at the end of the day,

00:26:38

like, you know, she she's obviously super stoked once once I do well. But, um, yeah, I think I think it's it's it's

00:26:43

kind of cool cuz like I know she's not doing that because she wants me to do

00:26:47

well. It's because she knows that I'll be disappointed if I don't. Um, I don't

00:26:50

think it's anything that she she, you know, it's not like she's wanting this.

00:26:54

Um, she just wants it for me. So, yeah, I I I really feel that that um that support, but yeah, it is pretty funny

00:27:00

how, you know, it is it is just such an intense thing, right? Oh, just a wave of emotions, eh?

00:27:06

>> Yeah. >> So, you you're um you're born in Deneden, raised in Christ Church. Um

00:27:12

what? Born in Christ Church, raised in >> No, no, born in Denedan, raised in

00:27:16

Oakland. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> And then moved to Christ Church to

00:27:19

train. >> Yeah. >> What are your earliest memories? >> Um earliest memories. Funny you should

00:27:24

say that. We actually lived in Boston for two years. Um so when I was uh when I was three and four, uh we lived in

00:27:31

Boston. Dad had a job over there. um in cardiology. So yeah, I I actually remember like some of my first memories

00:27:38

were like eating dirty snow in and you know the streets of Boston and walking along the beach, you know, which is

00:27:43

probably like a small bay and just think it was like the longest beach ever. Um but yeah, no, my then my first memories

00:27:49

are definitely Oakland. Um I lived here from when I was about 5 years old to when I left school. So yeah, loved it.

00:27:55

Loved it here. Um yeah, I feel like now I'm a bit more of a general New Zealander, but yeah, I've I've still got

00:28:01

a little bit of my heart in Hawin for sure. >> And what about sports growing up? You

00:28:04

mentioned you alluded before to playing um football and rugby. >> Were you were you a tall kid?

00:28:10

>> I was a tall kid. Like I was always the tallest kid in the class. Um not by a

00:28:13

huge amount, but by by enough. Like I was kind of always that kid who everyone was like, "Ah yeah, you'll stop growing

00:28:18

at some point and we'll we'll all catch you." And and I kind of never really

00:28:21

did. But um yeah, I I think sport for me when I was younger um I played a lot of

00:28:25

sport like I I kind of had organized sports. So I'd play like rugby in the in

00:28:30

the winter and then um I do like usually cross country, no athletics usually in the summer. Um and then once I got to

00:28:38

being in my teenage years, I was a little bit too skinny for rugby. Uh kind of got banged around a we bit too much.

00:28:43

So then I started doing uh cross country running in in winter. But um yeah, I think I think for me like sport was was

00:28:50

always just like a participation thing. Like I I played every sport at primary school that you could sign up for. And

00:28:56

um you know, I I I loved going out for just adventures and walks and and playing tag with my mates at at at at

00:29:02

lunch. And you know, I think for me sport was a was an opportunity to get outside and and get away from the

00:29:06

classroom and and just try and try and spend as much time outside as possible. So I think I think that was kind of what

00:29:12

really got me into wanting to play sport. And then obviously the the success I've had is has kind of kept me

00:29:17

here. But at the same time like you know I I reflect on it a lot that I'm just

00:29:21

the kind of I'm just the kid who gets to do PE for a living now. So um I think

00:29:25

that fundamentally that doesn't really change. Like I just love being outside

00:29:28

and love moving around and >> and getting to do what I get to do. So yeah, I think when I was young um I

00:29:34

definitely had that range of sports. Uh high jump wasn't like the thing that I

00:29:37

really kind of honed into until I was probably in my real early 20s. Um I I love to run. and I love to to jump. I

00:29:44

you know I I I feel like I did a lot of different things within athletics. Um but at the same time, you know, if if

00:29:50

you you threw me threw me a ball, I was I was definitely willing to play as well. So yeah, I I think that kind of

00:29:54

that variation definitely kind of got me to where I need to be now. Um obviously

00:29:58

not a lot of variation anymore, but um yeah, definitely got me here. >> I feel like in the the New Zealand

00:30:03

school system through primary and intermediate, maybe even the first couple of years of college, everyone

00:30:08

everyone dabbles in high jump. Everyone has a go at high jump, long jump, all those um standard um athletics day

00:30:14

things. Were you Were you good at high jump? Did you win the high high jump growing up?

00:30:18

>> Yeah, I did. I did. I mean, I was doing a scissor jump. >> I was tall. Yeah. And so we um I did

00:30:22

love high jump. Like it was kind of it was kind of always the event that I love the most. Um but so yeah, so I won it at

00:30:29

um I won it at like primary school. I think I jumped like the school record of like 150 or something like that. and

00:30:34

then um went to intermediate kind of I won it at like a school level uh not at like a regional level or national level

00:30:42

but definitely like I'd always be winning it at school. Um and then and then I I kind of would go to Oakland

00:30:47

Champs and and come sort of fourth or fifth like you know not not groundbreaking but but also pretty

00:30:52

decent. Um but every year I kind of got a wee bit better. Um and I think the reason that you know I was it was the

00:30:58

sport I was the best at but it wasn't the sport that I really kind of pushed

00:31:01

into and that was cuz I didn't really see a future in it. you know, it's it's

00:31:03

such a niche event. Um, it's such such a small kind of part of of of of a sport,

00:31:09

which is then, you know, a small part of a a bigger kind of sporting industry, I

00:31:13

suppose. It it didn't really feel like something that I had a future in or something I could have a career out of.

00:31:17

And so, I I I loved it. I enjoyed doing it, but um yeah, ultimately I kind of knew that that I'd have to have

00:31:23

something else on the side as well. And so that's why I, you know, played other

00:31:26

sports for the enjoyment and and for the love, but but also tried to, you know, I

00:31:30

mean, I I went to uni and I, you know, I studied and I made sure that I kind of got everything, you know, all my ducks

00:31:34

in a row. Um, on the side of that as well. So yeah, it's kind of only been probably in the last few years I've

00:31:39

realized how much of a career this could be for me. Uh, and so yeah, I think that's that's quite interesting like

00:31:44

just not really seeing a future in it uh to to where I am now. Um, you know, been

00:31:48

able to travel the world and and do what I love for for a living. >> And is it isn't it funny? I don't know

00:31:52

if this is something that you think about, but you've sort of singlehandedly

00:31:56

um rewritten that narrative. So, a lot of young New Zealanders probably see high jump as a sport they can do now.

00:32:01

>> Yeah. Well, I I I think Yep. Yes. in high jump for sure. But um I think I

00:32:06

think what's super awesome about um you know, the general state of of track and

00:32:10

field in New Zealand at the moment is that there's there's role models in in

00:32:13

any sport in any event that that are doing really well and and who are professionals uh you know, for for our

00:32:18

country. So you think about the likes of, you know, Zoe Hobbs and Tom Walsh and Jordi Beamish, you know, our latest

00:32:25

track and field track gold medalist. And um, you know, I think I think that these

00:32:29

these people have kind of par all these these amazing trails. But I think at the

00:32:32

end of the day, like, you know, there's just so many different ways to attack

00:32:35

our sport, you know, different levels of progression and and different ways of kind of achieving, you know, the the

00:32:41

problem that we have in front of us that I just hope that people realize that just cuz my path's been blazed doesn't

00:32:45

mean that other paths can't as well. you know, if you get to the top and if you

00:32:49

if you really get to where we're at, there's there's, you know, there's a

00:32:51

there's a good future there and some really good opportunities. So, yeah, just get out there and do it.

00:32:56

>> So, you gave it away completely for your your university years, right? >> I did. Yeah. Look, I think I I I think a

00:33:03

big part of it was that I didn't see a future. You know, I I was I I finished

00:33:07

uh high school. I jumped about 210. Uh which is, you know, it's not bad. uh but

00:33:12

to then make the next jump up which was to make a world championships I was going to have to jump 230 and so that 20

00:33:18

cm gap when you're a 18year-old you know when when delayed gratification and you

00:33:23

know all these things in your frontal lobe haven't really developed yet like

00:33:25

you know I just wasn't super interested so um yeah I I went to uni and and and

00:33:30

had a good time for a few years uh and I was still training a little bit on the side um you know I I had a coach uh at

00:33:37

at uni who who really kind of just supported me and and encouraged me to turn up you she just text me the

00:33:42

training times each each Monday and most of the time I just ignore them, you know, every so often I would kind of

00:33:47

turn up and and and she was really supportive of me just wanting to get back into it. So yeah, I I I took some

00:33:52

time to to really just get my ducks in a row and enjoy the uni life and and enjoy

00:33:57

just studying and and and kind of that whole part of my life. But then I did start realizing near the end of my

00:34:02

degree how much I miss sport uh and and how much I I really missed my my event. I I got the opportunity um in second

00:34:10

year uh sort of near the end of second year to to kind of talk to a few young athletes about my experiences in sport

00:34:15

and um and what I'd done cuz I I I sort of did get to a decent level um by the

00:34:20

end of high school. I was I won the senior national champs uh as well as the secondary school champs. So um so I was

00:34:26

like the best high jumper of anyone in New Zealand u before I kind of gave it away. And so I yeah, I had this

00:34:31

opportunity to kind of talk to a few people and it made me realize how much I missed it and and how much I I really

00:34:36

didn't want to be that kind of person who like I started building this narrative of like ah you know like I

00:34:42

could have been really good but I got injured or I could have been really good but something kind of got in the way.

00:34:46

And so I I I sort of was able to arrest that um that spiral and and able to kind

00:34:50

of get back into it and realize that if I could get to the end of my career um and and know that I'd given it my all

00:34:58

and I didn't have any regrets, then that was pretty much a place that I could I

00:35:01

could then, you know, put it to bed, move away and and do what I do do what I want to do next. But yeah, I I felt like

00:35:08

I hadn't got to that point yet. So that's why I got back into it. >> So you did um an economics degree.

00:35:14

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, if you weren't a high jumper, what do you think you'd be doing with

00:35:17

your life right now? >> I have no idea. It's why I'm glad I am a high jumper. Look, I think I think that

00:35:24

that part of my life will always be very important. Um, you know, I I never thought that this would be a career. Um,

00:35:29

I never thought that I would be here for for this long doing what I'm doing. And

00:35:32

so, yeah, I'm I'm I'm excited for what's next. Uh, you know, whatever that may

00:35:37

be. But for now, I I'm focused on on on jumping as high as possible. And I'm I'm

00:35:42

open to opportunities. I I love meeting people and chatting about what they've

00:35:45

done and and you know just just meeting great New Zealanders and and and seeing what what's going on in the world. But

00:35:50

um but yeah, for now you know I will continue to build those networks. But um but high jumps the main thing

00:35:56

>> when you when you're at the level you're at like the the undisputed um goat high

00:36:00

jumper in the world right now. Is it is it lucrative? Are there good opportunities?

00:36:05

>> Is it an okay living? >> Yeah, I I get by. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I think um

00:36:11

you know track and field is quite a big sport overseas, especially when you get into Europe. Uh you know, the markets

00:36:15

they have there, you know, you just it's just the multitudes on top of what we're

00:36:19

dealing with here. And so, um yeah, I I I think that a lot of people are probably surprised at at how good of a

00:36:26

living it is. Um I you know, I don't want to go into too many details, but um

00:36:30

it's yeah, it's it's it's definitely something that I was even surprised at.

00:36:34

um you know, growing up and and coming into the sport. Even if you'd asked me

00:36:37

kind of a few years ago, you know, how successful I would have been. Um I I probably wouldn't have believed you. But

00:36:42

yeah, I mean, you know, I'm I'm I'm pretty comfortable now. I I you know, I

00:36:46

I I can I can bring my girlfriend and my coach, you know, to Europe with me every

00:36:50

year and and and do that pretty comfortably. And uh you know, the the lights stay on a home and and back home

00:36:56

at Christ Church, I've I've just bought my first house. And you know, I've done

00:36:58

all these things that that I feel like a lot of people my age would be doing as well. Um, so yeah, I I I think that

00:37:04

yeah, it's it's definitely there's definitely a lot of opportunity out

00:37:06

there. Um, and so yeah, it's it's definitely something that if you feel like you're going to put your life on

00:37:12

hold for a few years to do, um, yeah, it does catch up once you get to the top. >> It's it's pleasing to hear that because

00:37:16

it' be nothing worse than being, you know, so good at something and then you

00:37:21

retire at 30, 35, whatever, and have like nothing to show for it and be on the back foot.

00:37:25

>> Yeah, I think look, I mean, I I never got into this for the money, you know. I

00:37:28

did it for the love. Um, but at the same time, I think that if you know that that

00:37:33

love runs out quickly, um, I think I think, you know, as a 30-year-old, if I if I was still kind of going paycheck to

00:37:39

paycheck, really struggling to get by, it would become quite tough. Um, and so, yeah, I'm I'm super grateful. You know,

00:37:45

I've got some great sponsors. Per Sportsware is my main one, and, you know, they they they're so supportive of

00:37:50

me and and and really kind of enable a lot of what I do. So, yeah, super grateful um for for everyone who's

00:37:56

helped me on this journey. Um, and yeah, I hope to continue. >> So, your partner, uh, Maddie Wilson,

00:38:04

she's a hip athlete. >> Yeah. >> What's the hipathlon? Is that eight

00:38:07

events? >> It's seven. >> Seven events. >> Uh, so I'm going to get treated here,

00:38:11

but it's the So, you go hurdles, long jump, short put. No, sorry. Hurdles, high jump, shot put 200. That's day one.

00:38:20

And then day two, long jump, javelin, 800 m. So, yeah, she >> to be a superb all round athlete.

00:38:26

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's exhausting watching her train. She's just like always having to

00:38:30

do all these different events. Um but yeah, super cool. Uh this year especially, she was she kind of did her

00:38:38

first overseas competitions. Um and thankfully they were in kind of a a weekend that I didn't have uh

00:38:44

competitions on. So I was able to go to Austria and watch and support her and and so it's real special like you know

00:38:49

she's she's a couple years younger than me um and sort of probably on a very

00:38:53

similar career trajectory. I hope that that I was, you know, four year four or five years ago. Um, and so to be able to

00:38:59

kind of support her and and support her as my partner first and foremost, which is, you know, sometimes tough to to

00:39:05

balance, but um, yeah, I'm I'm just super proud of her and and I I can't

00:39:08

wait to see what's next. She her her next big goals are com games. um she wants to qualify for that and and go

00:39:14

next year and and yeah, for me, you know, obviously with what we've talked about in my my goals for for LA, um you

00:39:21

know, I I think another really cool goal for me is is that if we were both there

00:39:25

um and able to share that that stage, I would I would be pretty pretty stoked with that. So, let's hope.

00:39:30

>> And out of the um the seven discip disciplines in the hip teflon, from what

00:39:33

I can gather, high jumps like her her specialty. Um >> nothing to do with me.

00:39:38

>> Yeah. But do you um Yeah. Do you guys talk high jump at home or? >> Not really. Like uh I mean look, she is

00:39:44

the best high jump coach in the world, right? So like why would she need to talk to me about it? Um no, but I mean

00:39:50

that's that's the thing. I mean I've always been very hands-off in my

00:39:52

training. Like I turn up to train. Um I do what my coach tells me to do. I I go home and I recover. That's that's my

00:39:57

job. Um and so it's the same with Maddie. Like you know we we obviously go to training. We challenge each other and

00:40:03

and we're always pushing ourselves in that that element, but at the same time,

00:40:06

you know, her strengths are her strengths and and yeah, she's got a great coach to be able to work through

00:40:10

that. >> How did you guys you guys met through High Jump? >> We met through training. So, we actually

00:40:14

both used to train with Terry. Um, and then she moved to uh Jimmy uh about 18 months before I did. Um, but yeah, we've

00:40:21

we kind of met through that. Uh, yeah, she's she's a gizzy girl. I'm an

00:40:25

Oaklander. Uh, so kind of displaced North Islanders living down in Christ Church. Uh, so they sort of shared a wee

00:40:31

bit of wee bit of love there. But, um, yeah, it's it's it's been really cool.

00:40:35

She's super supportive and and I just hope that, you know, in the next few years I can I can be as supportive as

00:40:39

she has been to me. >> Yeah, cuz I saw a photo of her um, uh, at the Olympics. She was wearing a

00:40:43

t-shirt saying I know Hish. >> That was awesome. Did you know did you know she had packed that or was that a

00:40:49

surprise? >> No. So, uh, the funny Yeah, the funny story behind that was that um, our flat

00:40:53

mates um, Scotty and Bria who were also there who also were wearing those t-shirts, they they had made them. So

00:40:58

Bria was the um reserve for the triathon for the team triathon and so she she was

00:41:03

already in um Paris. Her boyfriend um came up to to support and then Maddie was there as well. Uh and uh Scotty was

00:41:11

supposed to Bria had actually made these t-shirts and like printed them out in Spain where they were basing and and

00:41:17

Scotty forgot to bring them to Paris. And so the the morning of the final um it was like Scotty, where are the

00:41:25

t-shirts? And so then apparently there was this huge like they so then Maddie and Bria pretty much had this huge like

00:41:32

mission to go around Paris trying to find like a t-shirt printer who would do these t-shirts and the guy was kind of a

00:41:37

bit weird as well about them cuz it's just like all these random you know it

00:41:40

was just all these people's face on faces on them. So that was quite good. But um yeah they obviously you know got

00:41:45

it done and and and wore them and I didn't realize until I I got out there and and looked up in the crowd and saw

00:41:50

them all wearing them and yeah it's just just typical those guys. It must have

00:41:54

made you feel really good. >> Yeah, it was. It's It's a bit weird when

00:41:58

um you know, they they walk out in the morning still wearing them, you know, from time to time cuz we all still live

00:42:03

together. Um but yeah, it's it's it's pretty cool to see that kind of stuff

00:42:06

happen. >> What What are you like? What would Maddie say you're like in the leadup to

00:42:09

a competition? Like um just before the Olympic qualifying or the World Champ qualifying, whatever. Are you um

00:42:16

is there a significant change in your demeanor? >> Um you'd have to ask her.

00:42:22

Uh, I I honestly I think um I'm I'm pretty driven like you know I I I get pretty focused in that time. Um I'm

00:42:33

probably not the best boyfriend at that that moment. Um I think I think you know

00:42:37

as the years have gone by and and kind of our relationships matured and grown, it's been much better. But yeah, I I I

00:42:44

feel like for me when I'm in that mode, um usually we don't spend a lot of time

00:42:49

together. um you know she she'll come over, she'll support, but I'll always

00:42:53

make sure that you know my mom is there as well or you know some of her friends are there so there's people for her to

00:42:57

hang out with cuz cuz in that moment you know that's that's when I'm working and

00:43:00

I'm I'm busy and so yeah it's it's it's it's gone to the point where she can

00:43:05

support me in that that moment now. But I think yeah once you get to that that kind of that top of the peak uh the air

00:43:11

gets pretty thin and and you have to really make sure your your energies on. though. Yeah, I I get quite um I get

00:43:17

quite kind of narrow-minded in my thinking and in my my burn of my energy. And so, a lot of stuff gets managed from

00:43:23

Jimmy and my my agent. Um and and kind of nothing else really gets gets done and gets passed through to me other than

00:43:29

than performance stuff. >> I I had Nikico Portius on the podcast recently. Um yeah, winter gold medalist.

00:43:36

And he he just talked about the crippling anxiety he'd have in the leadup to a competition. Like there'd be

00:43:40

some nights where he'd be at the the Olympics and he'd just be awake all

00:43:43

night talking to his mom like sort of her sort of counseling him through it. What do you like? You sleep sleep well

00:43:48

the night before a big event or >> I sleep better nowadays. Like I think um

00:43:52

for me like my gut gets really bad so I just can't hold food down. And so for

00:43:57

sort of one of the overarching feelings when I finish a comp is I just want to have like a proper feed because it's

00:44:01

like the first time in like a week that I've actually been able to hold food in.

00:44:04

Um and so yeah, I think that's one of the hardest things. But for me as well,

00:44:07

like when I'm in that um that really high level mode, uh when I'm like peing

00:44:12

and and you know, everything is on, my body just aches. Like you think that a peak like when you're in your freshest

00:44:17

moment, like everything should feel like super amazing. And yet I always, you know, every time I get through into that

00:44:23

massive competition, my body just feels like it's like one or two bad jumps away

00:44:26

from breaking. And so I think for me, there's just that that massive neural kind of um that neurally strong feeling

00:44:33

of of everything. you're just super aware of every time you kind of step out

00:44:37

of bed wrong. You, you know, your knee might start hurting or something, you know, that those things just, you know,

00:44:42

get >> like phantom pains. >> Yeah. And they just like something that

00:44:45

might just be a tiny little ache, you know, any other time of of of the year just becomes amplified. Uh, and so

00:44:51

you're just constantly kind of trying to talk your talk your brain and your body

00:44:55

down. Um, so yeah, for me it's just like I get to the the end of a comp. Um, and

00:45:00

I just I just I'm just in so much pain. Uh but for me, I also know uh and I've

00:45:06

gotten gotten kind of better at identifying that that's when I'm in the best shape. Uh and so I know that it's

00:45:13

my body's way of knowing something big is about to happen and kind of trying to

00:45:18

shy away from it and give myself an out. Um and so if I can like lean into that and and really kind of push through it,

00:45:22

that's that's often when I get my best performances. >> Have you done much work with a sports

00:45:26

psychologist? >> So I've got a mental skills coach. Yeah. So so Quinny uh is my mental skills

00:45:31

coach. He's based in Christ Church. Uh and yeah, a lot of that work is done with him. Um around, you know, like what

00:45:39

how should you feel in these these big moments and and you know, kind of what are the things that you can bring

00:45:44

yourself back to and and how can you ground yourself uh and and rely and and trust and enable the confidence and and

00:45:51

all the things we've done before that moment. And so I think for me that's

00:45:54

that's what's really changed over the last few years is is when I get into

00:45:57

those tough moments uh instead of trying to clutch at something that's not there.

00:46:01

It's about having the confidence to just remind myself that I've done this all

00:46:05

before. Uh and having to just almost bring myself back down to to real life and and just just being able to kind of

00:46:11

work through that. So yeah, it's pretty tough um at times. Like obviously I've

00:46:15

I've had some pretty big jumps in the last 12 months where it's all been on

00:46:18

the line, but um you know with the work that I do with Quinny um it definitely definitely helps a lot.

00:46:25

>> Yeah. How what's the sort of relationship there? Like do you just you

00:46:28

text him or call when needed or you have regular appointments? >> We call pretty often. Um I'd say I'd say

00:46:34

like probably once once every couple of weeks. Um I wouldn't say it's like you

00:46:37

know I'm not I'm not calling them every every day every week. uh I feel like I

00:46:41

you know a lot of the time I know what I'm doing but um yeah it's it's just

00:46:44

around like him him challenging me on my language and and constantly you know reminding myself that reminding me that

00:46:50

I need to continue to grow and and and build as an athlete. I think I think for me that's probably the biggest kind of

00:46:55

mental skills thing that that we often talk about is is like the context of sport

00:47:00

within my life. Um and and kind of reminding me that it's something that I'm I'm deeply connected to and

00:47:06

something that I've I've worked really hard to to get to. at the end of the day like you know is

00:47:12

it going to change my life these these these opportunities and these these moments and and I I think it will uh to

00:47:18

a point but at the same time you know whether or not I I I succeed or fail uh you know I'm still the same person and I

00:47:25

still have the same friends and family and you know the the sun still rises each morning and the the birds are still

00:47:30

chirping and you know I think for me you know that's that's my biggest thing that

00:47:34

I I ground myself into in in those big moments is is regardless of what happens I'm going to wake up the next morning

00:47:40

and and continue on with life and and have all those same feelings that I've

00:47:43

I've had. You know, maybe there'll be a little a little bit more disappointment

00:47:46

or a little bit more happiness, but at the same time, I'm still going to be me.

00:47:50

So, yeah. >> Yeah. And the funny thing is, and this is probably quite um refreshing to hear,

00:47:56

you win, people remember. A lot of people will, some people won't, but if you lose, no one remembers.

00:48:02

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, yes, it's it is it is kind of like the the reality, right? And

00:48:06

I think look this this year is is a perfect example of that is um you know at the start of the year I I I didn't

00:48:13

win at all. I I came off last year. Um I had a lot of time off uh after the Olympics and and that was something that

00:48:20

was really important for me because I needed to sit with my success and sit with you know what had happened and and

00:48:24

then once I started training again and and starting to move through I was able to yeah I didn't start training until

00:48:31

quite late um in the the offseason and so I I was just underprepared and I I came between about 10th and sixth or

00:48:40

fifth in all of my my first four diamond leagues. Um and so yeah, you know, objectively that's it's not a great

00:48:47

season for an Olympic champion and and and you know, all these things were happening and and one of the other guys

00:48:52

um the South Korean Woo was winning everything and then you get to world champs, he was undefeated. I had only

00:49:00

just started kind of winning and then I end up winning world champs and you know

00:49:05

at the end of the day people are going to remember this season is the season that I won World Champs, not the season

00:49:09

that he only won one comp. So yeah, it's about when it matters, which is which is

00:49:14

the most important thing. >> Yes, since we're um on the psychology side of things. So um there was a story

00:49:20

I read on Women's Day that you did with your your girlfriend Maddie, and there

00:49:23

was a line in there that caught my attention. Um which I yeah, I wanted to drill down a little bit. The line from

00:49:28

you was um my sense of self is something I've always struggled with. >> What does that mean? Um,

00:49:35

yeah, I think I think there's a few there's a few like kind of takes on that. Um, but I think

00:49:43

firstly the the fact that I I never saw high jump as a career or something that could be a full-time occupation. Um,

00:49:52

I I always felt like there should be something else, like I shouldn't just be

00:49:55

a high jumper. And so I was always trying to sort of shy away from from that that tag, you know, that that

00:50:01

professional athlete or elite athlete tag for a long time. And and it's it's

00:50:05

taken like even even sort of like past the Tokyo Olympics and and into kind of Birmingham, you know, 2022, I I was

00:50:13

still quite resistant to call myself an elite athlete. Uh which is weird because

00:50:17

I wasn't like I was I was full-time in that. And and and I think it was because

00:50:20

I just never saw this as something that should be a career. Um, I I feel like my

00:50:25

my my thinking was probably quite traditional. Um, you know, coming from a family of doctors and and professionals

00:50:31

in their own rights, like I think I think potentially that fed into it a wee bit of the sense of like, yeah, that's

00:50:36

great you're playing sport, but like what's happening in your studies or like

00:50:38

what's happening in all the rest of your life? And so, yeah, it it took me a long

00:50:41

time to contend with that. Um, and and I think as well, like, you know, deep down, you know, I I was probably a

00:50:48

little bit cynical about the effect that sport could have on society and on on other people. And so, you know, I

00:50:54

thought it was great that I was doing all these things, but I never really understood why other people didn't get

00:50:58

celebrated the same as me. Um, and again, an example of that is is in 2022, uh, I won con games for the first time,

00:51:05

but my older sister also graduated medical school. Um, so, you know, she had been working for for 10 years of her

00:51:10

life towards, you know, getting this amazing achievement and and now she's in

00:51:14

a position where she's going to be helping, you know, thousands of people, you know, actual change change their

00:51:19

life, you know, save people's lives. Um, and and yet at Christmas everyone wanted

00:51:23

to ask me about con games and you know, no one was really super interested in that. And so I think I think for me like

00:51:28

there was always kind of this this cynical nature of of what I do and and and kind of what does it really matter

00:51:33

at the end of the day and and so that sense of self of of getting celebrated and getting put up as as this this

00:51:38

athlete of, you know, and this this person who's done these amazing things when

00:51:42

>> I've I've, you know, firsthand seen all these amazing things other people do and

00:51:46

and never really get celebrated for was was something that I I I thought was quite hard. Um, and yeah, I'm getting

00:51:51

better at it, uh, for sure. Like I I I I feel like now I don't think about it a

00:51:55

lot. Um, I'm I'm so busy. You know, my my energy is is is pretty pretty um, you

00:52:01

know, between training and recovering and and then everything else I do, I I don't have a lot of time to think about

00:52:06

um, you know, the wide world and and everything else that's going on on it. But um, yeah, it's it's definitely an

00:52:11

interesting concept. Uh, but yeah, one that I've just had to deal with. >> It's an interesting game. It's like it's

00:52:17

like winner's guilt in a way. Yeah. Like, yeah, I think I think at the end of the day, like I I I think I like I

00:52:25

just feel like a person, you know, I I do what I do. I I get up each morning and I I have my coffee and my breakfast

00:52:30

and then I go and work really hard at my job. And and then I I come home and and,

00:52:35

you know, do do what I need to do to recover and get ready for the the next part of it. And I'm I'm good at

00:52:40

reviewing that that process and and working out kind of where where the gaps are and and where I need to get to the

00:52:45

for the next part. I I I just feel like I'm I'm just I'm just a person. So,

00:52:50

yeah, I think when I you know, when I >> get to meet all these amazing people

00:52:54

nowadays, um you know, whether it's whether it's business leaders or other

00:52:58

athletes or or you know, doctors, lawyers, all these kinds of people, like I I I love hearing their story and I

00:53:04

love love seeing what they're doing at their level of of of their career. And

00:53:08

and I think that that's the most important thing for me is that as humans like you know if we're just getting

00:53:12

better and if we're we're improving doesn't really matter what it is like I

00:53:15

I just see that as a massive win. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Constant self-improvement. E just a little bit

00:53:22

each day. It's all you can hope for. >> What um what does an average day or week

00:53:26

look like? >> Um yeah. So kind of depends what time of the year it is, but uh most most of the

00:53:32

time when I'm in like heavy training with no competitions, uh it would be uh

00:53:36

jumping twice a week. So, I jump on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Uh, then I I'm in the gym three times a week. So,

00:53:43

Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then I do like running and then track based stuff

00:53:47

uh on Thursday and then a little bit on Tuesday and a little bit on Saturday. So, that's that's pretty much my my

00:53:52

training week. Um, so it's about six days and then I have >> How many hours all up do you reckon?

00:53:57

>> Um, not a huge amount. Like, I mean, as a I'm a power so like it's not about how

00:54:02

many hours you put in, it's about the quality of those hours. Uh, and so I'd

00:54:05

say we do about, you know, two to three hours a day. Um, not, you know, the whole time. We we've got breaks in there

00:54:10

and and we're we're having lots of recovery in in between, but yeah, between about two and three hours a day.

00:54:15

Uh, and then Sunday is almost the most important day of the week. That's my recovery day. And so that's the day

00:54:20

where I I don't do anything. I make sure that I'm I'm, you know, getting my body

00:54:24

ready for for what's to come for the next week. So yeah, that's that's

00:54:27

essentially my my training week. Um, it's always training in the mornings and

00:54:30

then recovering in the afternoons. Uh, and my recovery in the afternoons is is often just going home and lying on the

00:54:35

couch, which is the best part of my job. I love that bit. So, >> yeah, but being in this environment and

00:54:40

like I don't know, I suppose like being in the um the Olympic sphere and seeing

00:54:44

a whole lot of um other professional athletes in a whole lot of different disciplines. Um, yeah. What's high jump

00:54:50

like compared to others in terms of like training? I'm thinking swimming's got to

00:54:52

be one of the worst. >> E, >> in terms of time involved. >> Yeah, it's look like often it depends on

00:54:57

like how long your event is. Um, and so generally like the longer you go, so whether it's like, you know, 1500 meter

00:55:04

running, 5,000 meter running, marathon running, and then the same, you know, swimming, it's like the length of the

00:55:08

the time, the rowers, like all these guys, like generally you'd have to do more and more training. Um, and so yeah,

00:55:14

I mean, it's it's funny. I know Jordy Beeish really well um you know, we've

00:55:18

we've been on tour heaps um in the last few years and he always jokes with me

00:55:21

because like as a runner, they're always like running. like they'll run every

00:55:25

single morning and then they'll go and do a workout in the afternoon and like

00:55:28

he'll just be sitting there be like, "Oh, what do you got today?" Like

00:55:30

another rest day. Like it's just, you know, it's it's great, but it's just

00:55:34

like that's just the reality of what we do. Like, you know, for for me it's

00:55:37

about like, you know, recovery. Uh whereas for those guys, it's about mileage. And I think honestly like

00:55:43

probably the worst sport for it in my opinion would be rowing. And the reason for that is they have to wake up so

00:55:49

bloody early. Like I just Yeah. I couldn't do that. E. >> Yeah. so early and such long sessions as

00:55:56

well. >> Yeah. Yeah. Such long sessions. Um you know, you're outdoors in the, you know,

00:56:01

rain, hail, and shine just just getting it done and Yeah. My hat goes, you know,

00:56:06

props to them. Yeah. My heart goes out to them. >> So, you're at peace with the sport you

00:56:11

chose to do. >> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. But I think I think within that as well, it's it's,

00:56:15

you know, we've got this really weird balance of like a lot of the time it's

00:56:20

just grind. like you know pro for probably 8 months a year it's like you just you're pretty much just trying to

00:56:26

standardize your day as best as possible. You know it's like how many it's like just how can you get through

00:56:30

the monotony of waking up every single morning and doing the exact same thing and then for 4 months it's like crazy.

00:56:37

It's like the highest you know there's like almost no pressure in the 8 months.

00:56:42

there's pressure to come, but it's like in that eight months, it's just about

00:56:44

building the the engine and building what's what's to come. And then and then

00:56:47

that four months, it's just like the the most ultimate stress test for that. And

00:56:51

then it just becomes really really like highly um highly intense. And I think that a lot of athletes um you know

00:56:57

they'll thrive in either one of those zones but but kind of struggle um to really kind of get amongst it when you

00:57:04

know either either you're really good at the the habitual stuff the the grind the

00:57:08

just being able to not think about stuff and just turn up and and get it done or

00:57:11

you're like really high you know you're quite a highly strong person to begin

00:57:14

with and you're really good in that moment but you kind of can't really get

00:57:16

it together for the first bit. >> But I think for me like that's one of my

00:57:19

big strengths is that I thrive in both those spaces. Like I love my habit. I love my routine. And I love like kind of

00:57:25

just turning up and you know just doing the exact same thing every day. But I get bored of that and then like once I

00:57:30

get bored of that then I love like just just the intense nature of of competitions. So

00:57:36

>> what's the best and worst thing about it? >> Um best and worst thing. So

00:57:42

>> winning. >> Yeah. Uh I don't know. I think like I what the best thing actually no I know what the

00:57:52

best thing is. The best thing is is like getting to a point where you're so keyed

00:57:56

into a comp that you don't know what day it is. So, like we'll have we'll have

00:57:59

times where I'll, you know, I'll be doing like an like a a shakeout session

00:58:04

before a comp or like a like a after doing a big travel day, we'll do like a

00:58:08

little like kind of body movement thing and like, you know, we'll go to the pool

00:58:11

and do a bit of like movement stuff and and often on those days like like we'll

00:58:16

turn up to the track and like there's no one there and you're like why is no one

00:58:18

here and then you realize it's like Sunday or something, you know? It's just

00:58:21

like a day where like everyone else is like hanging out for the weekend and like we just wouldn't like I just

00:58:25

wouldn't have a clue what what day it is in those moments. And so I think for me

00:58:28

that's the best thing cuz it's like that's when I'm just like at ultimate

00:58:31

peace with what I've got. It's like all I know is that I've got 6 days to the

00:58:34

next comp or 4 days since the last one or you know it just becomes that that that mode. So that's the best thing. Um

00:58:40

>> I think the worst thing is definitely the travel though. Like I I love traveling. I love being away. Um but you

00:58:46

know I'm away from my family, away from my friends for a long time. So yeah,

00:58:48

it's it will always be the hardest thing for me um is is still being able to be

00:58:53

connected to to everyone back home while I'm I'm out there doing what I need to

00:58:57

do. >> When did you genuinely believe you could be the best in the world? >> Um

00:59:04

I think like deep down I've kind of always known that I I will be as good as

00:59:10

I as as good as I put my energy to. you know, every year it was like, let's just

00:59:14

put a bit more energy towards this. And I got better and better. And so, so I kind of think, you know, deep down there

00:59:19

was probably this this arrogance of of knowing that I could always be be be the best or one of the best. But, you know,

00:59:25

to truly believe that and truly realize that it's a reality, um, was probably

00:59:29

something that I keyed into last year at the start of the year uh, when I won World Indoors, uh, and then kind of

00:59:34

leading towards the Olympics. um I knew that I was I was in really good shape and and that was the first time I really

00:59:39

sort of saw that that opportunity and that reality start to take shape. >> Awesome. What's the um the biggest um

00:59:46

failure or disappointment that you've had to bounce back from in your career

00:59:48

so far? >> Um >> has there been like a rock bottom? >> Yeah, there has. Uh yeah, so Bipest 2023

00:59:54

uh when I failed to make the final uh was that was my rock bottom for sure. Um I

01:00:01

yeah I mean I I came off the track I I was pretty blindsided. Like I I thought I was in good shape. Like I thought I

01:00:06

was ready to jump 230 235 and and I actually the I was because the evidence was that then I went to a comp 2 weeks

01:00:13

later and jumped 233. Uh but in that moment I only jumped 220. And so yeah so that was that was a that was a massive

01:00:19

failure for me. Um, but the more I delved into it, the more I realized that failure was in my

01:00:25

process and the failure wasn't the energy I'd actually given that that season. I I'd cut corners. I I hadn't

01:00:29

done what I needed to do. My recovery wasn't as good as I I should have, you

01:00:33

know, I I didn't put enough energy towards that. I I I didn't turn up to

01:00:37

training ready to go each day and and and make sure that I was I was doing that that 8 months of monotony

01:00:43

correctly. Uh, and so yeah, that was that was that was definitely the worst time. Um I yeah I I was gutted. Um I was

01:00:51

so lucky Maddie was there. Uh and I I moved out of the team hotel and just you know spent a week with her and then went

01:00:57

to went to Croatia actually and and and had a holiday and just didn't think about the sport for for a for a week or

01:01:03

two. Uh which was which was just really really needed. But yeah, I think I think

01:01:06

now that I look back on it um like I wouldn't have won the Olympics if I didn't do that as well. Like that was

01:01:13

that was the moment that that I had to have that moment to to then kind of come out of the fire like a phoenix, you

01:01:20

know? It's it's like you have to burn everything down to to kind of really

01:01:22

strip it back and and really understand like what's going on. And and if I didn't have that moment, I wouldn't be

01:01:27

here. Like it it it just wouldn't have wouldn't have gone the same way. I I

01:01:30

probably would have realized that like I would have had that failure somewhere along the line. It was it probably would

01:01:35

have been at the Olympics. Um and and then that would have been, you know, so much more catastrophic that um I was

01:01:40

just lucky I was able to kind of catch that when I when I did. And yeah, it's

01:01:44

it's it's definitely tough, but at the same time, I think, you know, the the

01:01:48

more you lean into those those negative times and those those moments, that's

01:01:51

when you get the most growth. And so, yeah, I think I think that's something

01:01:55

that, you know, will be a challenge for us this year and and was a challenge last year was was, you know, you get so

01:02:00

much success. How do you keep pushing and how do you how do you sort of still break it down and go, "Okay, that's

01:02:05

great, but you know, what did we set out to do? Did we really achieve that?" And

01:02:09

and and if so, how do we continue? And and if not, how do we how do we really like kind of look at that and and really

01:02:15

understand how can we be better? Cuz >> yeah, otherwise if you just kind of go

01:02:19

out there and just hope that you will do well, um you'll always find something

01:02:23

positive about it. Um, so it's about really trying to like hone into that achievement stuff and and and make sure

01:02:28

you're you're really trying to set something down um so you can review it.

01:02:32

>> It's that old saying like a failure is a stepping stone to success.

01:02:36

>> Yeah, that's interesting. So that was after we had the podcast last time. So

01:02:39

do you think after the Comwalth Games medal you were sort of I don't know believing your own hype or something

01:02:44

going into the Buddha piece thing or >> Yeah, I think I think um I definitely

01:02:48

got soft like I well not soft like I I it wasn't it wasn't that bad but it was

01:02:53

it was it was just like like it was almost that that case of like I'd finally got my foot in the

01:02:58

door. I thought I'd arrived. Whereas nowadays it's like I really like believe

01:03:04

that it's like once you get that foot in the door that's when you actually have

01:03:06

to try the hardest. like that's when it just it only starts to matter. Uh and so

01:03:10

I think for me 2022 was was getting a little sense of that and get get a little understanding of of what it would

01:03:16

be like to win and and and compete at a high level. But I still kind of wasn't

01:03:20

really there. Like I still didn't have the the goods to to jump, you know, into

01:03:23

the high30s and and compete with those guys when when they are all really at their best. Um and so yeah, it was it

01:03:30

took it took a wee bit of time to get through that. Um, but thankfully I had the the right people in my team and and

01:03:36

we're able to to work through that um as a unit and and now I'm here. So yeah, it

01:03:40

it wasn't something that I felt like like I look back on that and I don't

01:03:44

have any regrets with how it went. Like I don't I don't feel like 2023 was was a

01:03:48

failure because I didn't get the results that I I wanted. I see it as a massive

01:03:53

success because it was it was a time where I I had to transition from an athlete who was was good and could win

01:04:01

from time to time to to like being like, "Okay, but that's not what I want to be.

01:04:05

I want to be an athlete who is the best and wins, you know, when it really matters all the time. So yeah, I I I

01:04:11

look back on that time with a bit of pain, but at the same time, you know, a huge amount of of of pride, I suppose,

01:04:17

with with how we were able to kind of get through that and and grow as a person and and, you know, grow as an

01:04:22

athlete. >> Well, it led you to so much good stuff after that. And let's get into the Paris

01:04:26

Olympics now. So, um, >> yeah. How is it? Were you there for the opening ceremony? Were you on the boat?

01:04:31

>> No, I wasn't, thankfully. >> Why did you did you intentionally avoid

01:04:35

the the hype of the Olympic opening ceremony? Um well so the high jump was the last day of the Olympics. Um so two

01:04:42

weeks before so we so yeah two the so two weeks after the opening ceremony was was when we were competing and so yeah

01:04:48

it was just a little bit early for me to get in there. Um often we will get into

01:04:52

like the games village or like that that performance kind of um space only about

01:04:58

3 days before. Um and so we were I was actually in the UK with Jimmy um just having a little kind of training block

01:05:05

um before we came into Paris. So, it was quite nice. Like, we we sort of watched

01:05:09

a little bit of it, but we're probably kind of like more interested in just just chilling out and watching movies

01:05:13

and and just hanging out as mates. So, um >> to be fair, like um I think it's the

01:05:18

best opening ceremony ever, but it's definitely made for TV rather than made

01:05:21

for being there. I think if you were there on the boat um with your poncho on, you would have seen [ __ ] all.

01:05:26

>> Yeah. I I I don't know. Like I I think um like they've always said so I've

01:05:30

never actually been to an opening ceremony because we're always second week and so um

01:05:34

>> and also the Yeah. 2021 games. Your first games, they were the CO games.

01:05:37

>> Co games. So, we were again, we weren't even in Japan. Um, at the time of No,

01:05:42

actually, sorry. Co games. Uh, we landed in Tokyo and then like transferred through to like another plane to like

01:05:49

then fly to where our pre- camp was like when the opening ceremony was on, which

01:05:52

was a bit depressing, but um that's just the reality of it. Um yeah, the the often what happens at

01:05:59

an opening ceremony as well is these like heaps just sitting around and so like even in the the closing ceremony of

01:06:03

of the Olympics when I was there like you're just standing there like my back

01:06:07

was killing me because I was I mean I just competed. I was my body was destroyed and we were just standing

01:06:11

there waiting for so long and so that was actually the good thing about being on the boat was that I think a lot of

01:06:14

the athletes were able to just like sit down and just kind of like cruise through uh which is quite cool. Uh the

01:06:19

awesome thing about uh LA is that they've swapped um athletics and swimming and so we're now first week,

01:06:26

swimming is now second week. So I will be able to get to an opening ceremony. >> Oh, fantastic. So you better to get it

01:06:32

done and then just party. >> Yes. Yeah, I will. >> So So did you stay in the um in the

01:06:36

games village at all or? >> Yeah. Yeah. So I I stayed in the I've stayed in the games village both

01:06:41

Olympics. Um and that's just a crazy experience. Like I >> I don't know. I feel like that's the the

01:06:47

coolest thing about the Olympics is being able to kind of go into that space and and and just see it for for

01:06:52

yourself. And obviously, you know, there's so many stories around what it what it's like and you know, the things

01:06:57

that go on and and and all the rest of it, but yeah, to be to be able to actually get in there and and see it for

01:07:03

yourself is is super super special. And I I think this time around obviously I was going there to per perform and and I

01:07:09

was probably more focused on that. But I definitely remember in Tokyo um getting

01:07:13

there and just you know just being in awe of of all these amazing athletes walking around and it's pretty crazy cuz

01:07:18

you get in that space and like >> there's sports like there's so such a

01:07:24

huge range of sports from you know like weightlifting to gymnastics to basketball to like there's just there's

01:07:31

just every single body type in the world. there's like every single different like you know like culture,

01:07:37

religion, race, like all these kinds of things. Like it's it's just this melting

01:07:41

pot of of just like all these high performance athletes essentially. And so yeah, it was it was quite cool. Like I

01:07:46

think my overarching feeling when I was in the um Tokyo games and and then definitely uh again in uh Paris was was

01:07:52

just a sense of belonging in a way. Like I think that was when it really connected with me that like I'd earned

01:07:57

my spot there and and I'd kind of got there and and that was kind of my life

01:08:00

now. So yeah, that was that was something that was really cool and something that I really hope that Matty

01:08:04

gets to do in uh LA as well because yeah, it's it's it's something you can't

01:08:07

explain that to someone. Um that that feeling of of getting there and and realizing that that that's your space as

01:08:12

well as as the space that you've kind of heard about for your entire life about,

01:08:16

you know, what happens and all the people and and just everything that goes on. So yeah, to be able to be be there

01:08:22

and be present is is very special. So >> did you did you fanboy over anyone?

01:08:26

>> Um what did you say? No, even if not take a photo of them, but did you see

01:08:30

anyone and be like, "Oh [ __ ] there's Roger Federer or >> Yeah. So, a lot of a lot of the top

01:08:35

people like stay outside the village um and they'll come in maybe for like a day

01:08:38

or two and just kind of experience it. But often like so like the American basketballers will stay away and um all

01:08:43

the others, but I'm a it's funny, I'm a big cycling fan. Um and so a couple of

01:08:48

the real top cyclists were there. Um they were just leaving actually when we kind of got to the village in in Paris.

01:08:52

though. That was like probably the main one I was real like stoked about, which is real niche, but um

01:08:58

>> so niche. How would anyone recognize them either? Like without the helmet and

01:09:02

the like, right? >> Yeah. Well, that's true, wasn't it? Yeah. No, but that was that was quite

01:09:05

cool. But um no, I mean, look, there's there's there's so many athletes you

01:09:08

recognize there, like it it's like if you're going to get over over by athletes, like you're going to spend so

01:09:13

much energy cuz there is just like every time you walk down the street, there's

01:09:16

there's just someone you recognize. So, yeah, it's a pretty cool space. And do

01:09:20

you play internal head games like guess the sport? So you see like a like a tiny

01:09:24

little girl, you think gymnastics, you see someone like you, you like high jump.

01:09:28

>> We definitely do. Like there was this um there was this area where they had like

01:09:32

a coffee shop um in Paris like in the middle of the village. Um and it's like

01:09:36

everything's free so you just go down and you just grab a coffee and just park

01:09:39

up and and me and the boys would um kind of go down there every morning after breakfast and just sit there for like an

01:09:43

hour and just like look at everyone going past like you just people watch. It's just so fun. Um, but yeah, there's

01:09:48

definitely some some crazy people that that do some crazy things in that village. That's for sure.

01:09:53

>> And what sort of conversations do you have with other athletes like New

01:09:56

Zealanders or even strangers you meet? Do you like you talking about the psychology of sport or you talking about

01:10:02

like like mental skills, techniques or anything? Or is it just small talk? Yeah, I mean I think I think that's

01:10:08

something that I love about the Olympics is um you know we we spend so much time

01:10:11

away from New Zealand and and and in our own kind of little uh bubble of of track

01:10:16

and field uh and you know there are Kiwis there are a lot of Kiwis who who are there but people you know quite well

01:10:21

and so to be able to kind of come into this village and and then suddenly there's there's 200 other New Zealand

01:10:26

athletes there. Um that's something that I I really value is is being able to

01:10:30

kind of have those conversations with Kiwis uh in their sports. And I mean that's it's funny like I don't really

01:10:35

see a lot of New Zealand athletes when I'm in New Zealand. It's it's more

01:10:39

overseas because that's you know their space and that's where they're

01:10:41

competing. So yeah, I I love just chatting with Kiwi athletes and and working out, you know, what what their

01:10:46

schedules are like and and what their challenges are and the things that they've had to do to get to where they

01:10:50

get to and and it's always unique uh depending on what sport and you know depends depends how often you compete a

01:10:55

year and you know whether you compete too much or too little or you know all these different things. And so it's it's

01:10:59

pretty cool to be able to kind of sit there and and meet all these these really like-minded people. So

01:11:04

>> yeah. >> So your your qualifying day is August 7 and then the final is 3 days later on

01:11:09

the 10th of August. So um 6th of August. Do you sleep okay? >> No. Qualifying rounds for me are terrible. I

01:11:18

I hate them. Um I still do even though I've kind of put it to bed a wee bit now. Um and but yeah, that's that's the

01:11:24

moment I'll always be the most stressed is is going to those qualifying rounds.

01:11:27

So, >> do you you take like a Zop clone the night before or anything or >> No, you just live with it. You just

01:11:32

sleep with it. Like I I think for me like I always know that if I'm in bed just like staring at the wall, I'm

01:11:36

getting better recovery than if I'm not. And so I I try and just take it take it

01:11:40

with a grain of salt and just >> lie there for as long as possible and and just get through it. But um yeah,

01:11:45

like I think I think the reason I hate qualifying rounds is like like there's kind of nothing to succeed

01:11:52

from a qualifying round. You can't you can't win the games. you can't you can't

01:11:55

do a a record or you can't you know do this amazing performance. All you can do

01:11:59

is fail. It's like you either advance or you fail. And so it's it's it's kind of

01:12:05

this this sort of really crappy kind of like nuggy sort of mindset of just like do enough to get through and then in 3

01:12:14

days time you can then show you know all the things you've been working on. And

01:12:16

so that's why I hate it because it's yeah it's it's a time where failure is

01:12:22

pretty front and center of your mind. uh it's the only thing you can really like

01:12:25

really get out of a qualifying. Um so yeah, it's it's it's weird. So yeah,

01:12:30

don't sleep well before qualifying. Even this year uh in Tokyo, I was I was much

01:12:35

more nervous before the qualifying than I was the final. Um but yeah, it's just

01:12:39

it's just something we got to do, right? >> Yeah. Um I had Lewis Cleber um the

01:12:45

swimmer on the podcast maybe a couple of years ago and um he talked about lack of

01:12:48

sleep the night before and I think his coach or his mental skills coach said to him look yeah one bad night's sleep is

01:12:52

not going to undo months and months of training like you're going to be fine

01:12:56

>> and yeah with adrenaline on the day you're going to be fine um which sort of

01:13:00

like reframed it for him which was good. So yeah so what happened to you on August 7 why did you why did you do so

01:13:05

badly? >> Is this where you became a meme where you did that dive under the bar? No,

01:13:11

that was still the final. Um, yeah. So, even in in my greatest success, I still become a meme. But, um, no, like I think

01:13:17

I think the qualifying round um, so you know, you look back on my my world champs record. So, before this year, um,

01:13:26

I went to world champs in Doha. Uh, didn't make the final, so bombed out. Not I didn't bomb out in qualifying cuz,

01:13:32

you know, it was my first ever world champs. I I feel like I was there to experience it and and there to kind of

01:13:36

enjoy it. And so, yeah, didn't didn't do great there. uh 2022 uh didn't make the

01:13:41

final. 2023 didn't make the final. Uh and so you know I had this this record

01:13:46

um of of you know failure in qualifying rounds essentially. Uh the only qualifying uh that I had got through was

01:13:54

actually the Tokyo Olympics. So that was you know that was what I was trying to remind myself is like yeah but in the

01:13:58

Olympics you've got a good qualifying round um or good qualifying record. Uh yeah. So going into that um that uh

01:14:07

that qualifying round I like I I think that I like I well I definitely didn't put the

01:14:17

right amount of energy into it. Like I was trying to hold back energy knowing that I'd need it in a few days time. Um

01:14:22

given that that year had been so good for me. I you know I won a bunch of Diamond League um events which is our

01:14:29

professional series. I won a bunch of them before the games. Um I well won world indoors. I was one of the best

01:14:34

jumpers of the year. Like I had almost the best um height for the year and um I actually was world number one ranked

01:14:40

going into the the games and that was the first time I'd ever been world number one ranked was going into that

01:14:44

that qualifying round. Uh, and so I think for me like I was I was just a little bit um,

01:14:50

yeah, I just didn't I did I just didn't treat it with enough uh, seriousness and

01:14:55

enough kind of energy and and and really kind of make sure that I was doing what

01:14:59

I need to do. So I in my mind I was I was getting in and then just getting out as quick as possible. And so I was just

01:15:06

trying to hurry through the round. I didn't really feel like I was super present or like super like accepting of

01:15:12

the fact that I was going to be there for, you know, a long time. Um, qualifying rounds always take ages. They

01:15:17

usually take like two to three hours. Um, and you might only do like, you know, four or five jumps, which is not a

01:15:23

lot for us. Um, and so, yeah, so there's a lot of sitting there conserving energy, mental energy, physical energy,

01:15:29

nutrition, all these kinds of things. Um, and I just I just didn't do any of

01:15:32

it. Um, because I just thought that I was better than that. And so, yeah, first couple of jumps were were decent.

01:15:38

Um, I think I I think the progression was like 214, 217, 220. Um, so yeah, cleared at 214,

01:15:47

all good. 217, all good. Got came to 220 and I still was just hurrying through my

01:15:52

jump. So I was I was running too fast. I I wasn't in the right position and uh

01:15:56

first attempt I missed the bar. Um so I, you know, I I I didn't clear. Uh and

01:16:04

I like it was just a bad jump. Like there wasn't anything wrong about the way I jumped or or anything. It was just

01:16:10

that I didn't, you know, ground myself, think about my cues, think about how

01:16:14

fast I was running, and just try and bring myself back down to, you know, a speed that was more appropriate for that

01:16:19

height. Um, and so, yeah, missed it. Went and sat down, didn't didn't like

01:16:25

try and reset, didn't think about it. Was just like all good, I've got it.

01:16:27

Next one. Like, you know, no real thought about like why I did what I did, what changes I need to make, and you

01:16:34

know, all these intentional cues that we work so hard to do. It was just like, all good. Like, I'm better than that.

01:16:38

I'll I'll get it next time. And so then second attempt um like literally mid run

01:16:44

up I my leg like buckled a wee bit and it was just from the terror of like knowing like suddenly realizing like

01:16:51

where I was at and like that I hadn't kind of given myself the right um the right amount of kind of mental energy

01:16:57

and and right amount of kind of seriousness towards this competition. And so buckled and then ultimately like

01:17:02

wasn't even close to clearing the bar in that second attempt. Um, you know, I

01:17:05

barely even took off and and so then I was sitting there faced with one more attempt at at 220 um to

01:17:13

>> How much downtime do you have between jump two and jump three? >> Um, it felt like a million years. Uh,

01:17:19

you know, it might have only been 5 to 10 minutes, >> right? >> Um, but in that space it felt like a

01:17:25

long time >> cuz if you miss that third jump, that's it. You're done.

01:17:27

>> That's it. I'm done. Yeah. And that would have been of all that didn't qualify for the

01:17:34

finals, that would have been the worst one. Um it would have been the lowest height that I hadn't qualified in a I

01:17:39

hadn't cleared in a in a qualifying round. Um you know, given I was world number one, it would have been um you

01:17:45

know, something that was was pretty catastrophic. And I I think deep down what I knew as well was that

01:17:50

it was always something that was a [ __ ] in my armor. Um that that qualifying round and that that mental game of of

01:17:55

just having to advance. Um, and knowing how well I had been going that year and how hard we'd worked to get what we

01:18:03

needed to get to. I knew that if I didn't clear that bar, like I pro like I wouldn't that would

01:18:11

have been it. Like I wouldn't have continued competing because >> like how do you continue competing when

01:18:16

you know deep down there's this little bit of you that won't front up when it

01:18:19

really matters. Um, and so I this is what I was thinking about was was like maybe I just don't have what it takes.

01:18:23

maybe, you know, I can do all of these these, you know, maybe I've got the best

01:18:28

team in the world. I've got, you know, the the the this amazing amount of training behind me. I've got, you know,

01:18:34

I've got all these different, you know, I suppose, you know, techniques that

01:18:38

we've been working on to to really like frame things and and and make it kind of

01:18:42

work and and really optimize my performance. And yet, when it really really matters, when the the pressure is

01:18:47

on me, I I just don't have what it takes. >> This is all going through your mind in

01:18:50

between jumps two and jump three. >> Yeah. So, I was I was like like the tears had

01:18:56

started flowing really essentially and um and in that in that moment I walked over to Jimmy and I was just like man

01:19:04

like I like I pretty much resigned to the fact that I wasn't going to clear it. I was just like oh well I guess I

01:19:10

guess we're just going home. Uh and and so yeah, I went over to Jimmy and just

01:19:14

like I literally like I I was like a kid. Like I buried my head in his chest and he just like held me and he was just

01:19:21

like, "Bro, you've got this." like just slow it down. Deep breaths. You've got

01:19:25

this. Like this jumps there. It's easy. Like you'll be fine. And so I was able

01:19:31

to slow my breathing. Go back to my techniques. You know, be present. Uh you know, I do a lot of mindfulness. So it

01:19:38

was it was around my breath and around, you know, seeing what, you know, I look at people in the crowd and like see what

01:19:42

funny outfits I can find and, you know, just try and do all these things that kind of like bring me back down to like

01:19:46

this is reality and this is just, you know, where we're at. Um, and so I did a

01:19:50

I did a lot of that. And actually I was really lucky. I was sitting next to uh one of my really good mates u who's a

01:19:56

German high jumper, Tobias. And he had no hided cuz he was injured going into it. And so he was sitting there

01:20:02

essentially just like watching but also like kind of helping me and and giving me and he was just like, "Bro, like

01:20:07

you're just running too fast. Like just chill. It's all good." And so just being

01:20:11

able to hear him say that. And then also Jimmy um you know I looked Jimmy right in the eyes and he just like I could

01:20:15

tell that he was like he's like you got this. And so I was I kind of handed over

01:20:20

to Jimmy like I wasn't thinking about anything at that time. Um and so yeah was still crying you know I I was able

01:20:26

to console myself and steal myself at the top of my mark and >> crying externally or just internally.

01:20:31

>> Yeah. Yeah. Like I literally had I was wearing my sunglasses cuz my like I had

01:20:34

tears in my eyes. Um cuz I was just I was just so scared like I was I was at the the edge of the abyss, you I was I

01:20:40

was looking down into the this this dark hole of of my entire career of of all this work that I'd done potentially just

01:20:47

not being enough. Um and and maybe there was just this this this bit inside me that that didn't have what it takes.

01:20:53

>> Would would that have made you the cword like a a choker? >> Um yeah. Yeah, I would have. Yeah, for

01:21:00

sure. I think I think that was definitely a um and I think I think as well like you know I I mean there's so

01:21:06

many things that I was thinking about and and and for me I was obviously really gutted from a personal

01:21:10

perspective but you know I look back on that moment and I was I was definitely aware of the fact that um you know I I I

01:21:15

compete with the same boys a lot and and I I love them to bits and and we spend so much time on on tour together but you

01:21:22

know like I knew that that I wouldn't get the respect by doing that like that

01:21:27

would have been like ah you know Hish is a good guy but he doesn't really have

01:21:30

what it takes, you know, and and I think that that really kind of weighed on me um and was something that that we've

01:21:35

done a lot of work on trying to be more dangerous and and someone that that they

01:21:38

look towards and and are scared of. So, yeah, to have done all that work and then and then still be the you know, the

01:21:44

the choker like you said was was was it was pretty Yeah, it was a pretty intense

01:21:49

tense moment. And so, yeah, I stood at that mark. um just was, you know, just deep breathing,

01:21:58

reminding myself of of where I was at and and trying to just be as present as possible. And I scraped over the bar. Um

01:22:04

you know, I was able to bring out just enough of a jump as as I needed. I scraped over the bar and and the the the

01:22:11

funny thing with that was that that wasn't the end of qualifying. So like, you know, to qualify, we ended up having

01:22:16

to jump 228. And so like I like that still wasn't even enough to qualify. yet. I just, you know, just had this

01:22:22

huge dump of of emotion and adrenaline. And so, >> just bought you more time.

01:22:26

>> It just, yeah, it essentially, well, it didn't really buy me more time because

01:22:29

since I was the, you know, I was one of the only guys who actually had to jump in that third round. Um, I pretty much

01:22:34

had to lace back up and and jump in the first round of the next hype. So, you know, all the other boys were sitting

01:22:38

there kind of waiting and and conserving energy and I' I'd sort of just had this

01:22:42

huge um dump of adrenaline. Mhm. >> You know, afterwards, um, and then it was funny actually because ultimately,

01:22:49

um, I got it together by 228 and I cleared 228 first attempt. And so when you look

01:22:55

at the the qualifying round, like the final scorecard, I was like the second highest qualifier

01:23:02

because because I cleared it first attempt. There was only a couple guys who cleared it first attempt. And so

01:23:05

like a lot of people back home who didn't watch it, like they kind of looked it and text me. They're like, "Oh

01:23:08

yeah, nice work, mate." Like got it done. Never doubted you. And and it was

01:23:12

like that was that was like I was honestly the most tired that I've ever been after that qualifying round. Like I

01:23:18

I went through media and I was talking to a couple of the New Zealand media guys and and I think it was um it was

01:23:24

actually MS M was there I'm pretty sure and and he asked me he's like oh mate

01:23:27

how do you feel like you know what was going on your mind and stuff and I had nothing like usually you got a little

01:23:32

bit of energy there for you know like you know to be able to talk through what's happened and and reflect on stuff

01:23:36

and I was just like staring at him I'm just like I don't know like like I just I just I I

01:23:42

just genuinely did not have anything left in the tank. Um, and so then it's quite funny because you know I was I was

01:23:47

trying to keep some energy in the tank for the final and you know that probably meant that I went in underdone and then

01:23:52

I was able to kind of get get over it just just in time but um but use like everything in that moment but um you

01:24:00

know reflecting on that now is it's and and when I talked to my you know when I

01:24:05

talked to Quinny afterwards that was the perfect way to put that qualifying stigma to bed. you know, I

01:24:13

instead of just going in there and breezing through, you know, first attempting everything, you know, no

01:24:17

dramas, happy days, move on, like like we had to we had to test that new that new version of Hamish and that that new

01:24:25

kind of way of working and and not just turning up and hoping, but also, you know, turning up expecting and and

01:24:30

turning up and knowing what you need to do to to get the the right performance. And so yeah, that if I hadn't done

01:24:36

again, like if I hadn't done that third attempt, I wouldn't have won >> because like that was the moment I had

01:24:42

to look within myself and know deep down it is there. Um and then when I was able

01:24:47

to kind of talk my way back from that that cliff edge. Um yeah, then I then I kind of knew that anything was possible

01:24:55

cuz watching it on the TV like I I mean jeez, thanks so much for sharing these insights of what was going through your

01:25:01

mind. It sounds bloody harrowing at the time, but watching it on TV, I I'd have

01:25:04

no idea. Um, but I can't imagine how tough I can see now why your mom had to

01:25:08

go outside and was unable to watch it. What about your um your girlfriend and your friends in the stand? How's it for

01:25:14

them? >> Yeah, well, that was a bit of a mistake. I kind of looked up to them after the

01:25:16

second attempt. Uh, and and my my siblings were all there. So, my my older sister and my younger brother and

01:25:22

sister. And then Maddie was there as well. Um, and my older sister and Maddie were like hugging each other

01:25:27

>> and like I could tell Maddie was crying as well. And that was that was one of

01:25:31

the hardest moments as well was was looking up and being like, "Oh [ __ ] I

01:25:35

shouldn't have seen that." Like, you know, like like it's just made it so

01:25:39

much worse. Um, >> but yeah, I mean I I think I think ultimately like yeah, that's those are the moments that

01:25:48

that you live for as well, like a little bit in like a kind of sick way. Like I I

01:25:52

think that that's the thing that I love about my sport is is it makes me feel

01:25:55

alive and it and it makes me really feel something and and I always know that um

01:25:59

you know the day that I experience huge amount of failure and go home and and wake up the next morning and and and I'm

01:26:04

not gutted, that's the day that I need to give it away because that's the day I

01:26:07

don't care enough about it. And so, and so I think that was a big thing that I

01:26:10

was trying to remind myself through that moment as well is that like the fact you're feeling this way is because you

01:26:15

really really care >> and that you really really want to be here and and and seeing my friends and

01:26:20

the and my family in the crowd, you know, reacting so heavily to it as well shows that they they know how much it

01:26:26

means to me as well. Um, and so yeah, I think I think that's sort of a way of

01:26:30

framing those emotions for me uh and those dark moments is you've got all the

01:26:34

tools that you need to get through this moment. Um and and you really want to. So yeah, all you can do is try.

01:26:42

>> Yes. So qualifying August 7, then the final August 10. Um yeah. What do those

01:26:47

three days look like? >> Um well, they were supposed to look like about a day and a half of recovery and

01:26:52

then day and a half of of So you kind of like day and a half of just getting yourself back to base level after, you

01:27:00

know, the the the hard hardship of the qualifying round. and then and then a day and a half of kind of getting up

01:27:06

optimally to to where you need to be for that final. Um, but that changed a we bit after that qualifying round. It was

01:27:11

it was more like 2 and 1/2 days of just recovery and and sleeping and and I I caught up with my family that afternoon

01:27:20

cuz it was a morning qualifying. Um, so that afternoon I went and caught up with

01:27:22

them and then um yeah, I pretty much just lay in bed for two days like just I was just smoked. I was so tired. Um and

01:27:29

then yeah and then our last day before qualifying round before the final I was sort of able to do some some movement

01:27:35

stuff and and kind of get up for it. But I think I think at the end of the day like as well like I knew how to win a

01:27:40

final like I've been doing that all season you know like when we go to a a diamond league or a world indoors like

01:27:46

it's a single event there's you know 8 to 12 guys it's about the last last man

01:27:51

last man standing. And so I knew how to do that. Like I' I've done that plenty

01:27:54

of times. It's the qualifying that's the hardest because you you're essentially

01:27:57

just jumping until all these 12 guys left. And so that mindset shift gave me a lot of freedom because I knew that it

01:28:02

was something that I'd done before. I was confident. I knew what I was doing.

01:28:05

And so yeah, it was it was pretty crazy like going into the qualifying round versus going into the final like I was

01:28:10

just a completely different athlete. Um you know in the in the final I I was you

01:28:15

know at the warm-up track I was just you know throwing a Frisbee around with Jimmy and and just mucking around and

01:28:20

we're actually watching the golf as well cuz Lydia was still playing. So yeah,

01:28:23

just being able to kind of like disassociate from what was about to happen. Whereas in the final in the

01:28:27

qualifying, I was I was just far too serious. You know, I got there, I was just like I didn't want to talk to

01:28:31

anyone and was wanting to like just get into my work and and I know that kind of, you know, looking back on that and

01:28:36

reflecting more and what we do now, it's like when I'm I'm happy and I'm enjoying

01:28:39

myself and just want to be there, that's when I do the best. So >> so many good learnings, eh,

01:28:44

>> that you can take forward for the rest of your career. Um, okay. Yes. So the

01:28:48

final on August 10, what how long are you out on the track for? How long you So you drop your phone and your things

01:28:54

off in the in the changing room. Do you have earplugs or headphones or >> Yeah. So yeah, you drop all that stuff

01:29:00

um at cool room. >> Um so you're >> just out there with nothing.

01:29:03

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So just you and your thoughts and your mates. Uh which

01:29:08

Yeah. I mean that's why um as high jumpers we are so tight is that we we spend a lot of time on track together.

01:29:13

Um and and you know that's quite start stop sometimes when there's races on.

01:29:17

You have to stop to to make sure that you know they get their time in the sun and all the rest of it. So, it's it's um

01:29:22

yeah, it does take a long time. I think at the I'm not quite sure for um Tokyo, but in

01:29:28

Paris, World Champs that we had um just recently, I left the hotel at uh 2:00 p.m. and I left the stadium. So, I

01:29:37

finished like drug testing and stuff at uh 12. So, >> wow. 10 hours. >> So, it's a 10hour like 10 hours when

01:29:45

you're like on because like obviously like through that moment there's like

01:29:48

all these different things happening. Um, so yeah, so energy management is a massive thing for us. Um, you we're

01:29:53

allowed to take food out. Uh, so we always have food and drink and and you know, gels and various different kind of

01:30:00

nutrition strategies to take out with us. Um, but yeah, in that in that um in that Paris comp, there was probably

01:30:09

Yeah, like I think we we jumped into core room 60 minutes before event starts. So you do kind of half an hour

01:30:14

of movement stuff out on the warm-up track. Then you go in, you go through that, takes about 20 minutes. Then you

01:30:19

get on the track. So you got 40 minutes. That's when you do all your jumping. So

01:30:23

like your warm-up jumping. So we usually would do like two to three jumps uh before the competition just to make sure

01:30:27

your marks your runups in the right place and you got a feel for the track and all these different things. Um and

01:30:33

then once the comp starts, uh I think that comp ended up taking close to 3 hours. Um, so you think you think that

01:30:41

if you start an hour and a half before that, like it's almost a 4 and a half

01:30:45

hour effort >> through to ultimately what's what's the last jump. And it's it's it's a it's a

01:30:50

very different mindset. And the the way that I've had to change a lot for the

01:30:53

last few years is that like the winning jump in high jump is always the last jump. And so the winning jump

01:31:01

is always after 3 and a half hours of competition. Um, and so as a junior athlete, as someone who comes into the

01:31:07

comp wanting to just jump as high as possible, often those jumps will be in the first couple of rounds. And so like

01:31:14

someone who's coming 10th at the Olympics versus someone who's winning the Olympics, the guy who's coming 10th,

01:31:19

he might only be jumping for 45 minutes, but then the guy who's winning, he just

01:31:22

he has to jump for 3 hours. And so the the mindset shift that has to occur to be a like a contender is is a lot around

01:31:31

the energy burn. Um, and so that was something that I had to change a lot in the the way that I worked over the last

01:31:35

few years is is knowing that the the the the early jumps in the comp are very important, but at the same time they

01:31:42

serve a purpose and their purposes to get me to the jumps that really matter. And so yeah, it's it's pretty

01:31:47

fascinating like mindset shift um and and also the way that you have to, you know, keep keep hydrated and and and

01:31:55

keep, you know, nutrition down and all the rest of it. But um yeah, I think it means that once you kind of get to that

01:32:00

point and you know how to do it, that was why I was so confident in that final was that I knew what it was like to jump

01:32:06

the best heights after 3 hours of competition and I knew that there were a lot of boys there who potentially hadn't

01:32:12

done that a lot that season. Uh and so yeah, that was something that I was really really confident of going in.

01:32:18

>> How many jumps in those few hours? >> Uh in the final in Paris I did 15 jumps.

01:32:23

>> 15 jumps. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> So increasingly getting higher. Yeah,

01:32:27

often we' try and do like like a big comp for me would be 10 jumps. Um, but yeah, 15 was obviously pretty

01:32:33

unprecedented, but also it kind of like depends on like how high you're jumping.

01:32:36

That's that's kind of more the energy burn. Like for me, anything over 230

01:32:40

when I'm not in good shape is like destroys my body. Like I real feel it the next day. Um, and so in that moment,

01:32:46

like in the Paris final, I did uh I think I did three attempts at 231, one at 234, one at 236, three at 238,

01:32:56

another at 238, another at 236, like another at 23. You know, there's like there's so many over 230 that that's

01:33:01

what really fatigues you. Um, so yeah, but I mean that's just that's just the

01:33:05

comp, right? >> And and with the other competitors in the final, do you all get on pretty well

01:33:10

or is there like do they try and do you try and get into each other's heads? Are

01:33:13

there psychological games? There's like it's been interesting like I think the

01:33:16

last few years um there's been a really core group of us who have been coming

01:33:19

through the sport together. Um so there's there's a couple of guys who coming to the end of their career um and

01:33:25

they they've typically been the guys who have done really well. So the two Olympic champions in Tokyo are still

01:33:30

competing and and you know they're from an era kind of behind us a little bit

01:33:34

and so we've come through together which has been super nice. But yeah, I definitely have got the sense the last

01:33:38

couple years like there's starting to be a few more divisions just around like

01:33:42

you know now that some guys like we kind of all went in there brighteyed and bushy tailed and and all had confidence

01:33:47

that you know we'd get there and and and some of us have kind of kicked on and

01:33:51

some of us kind of haven't. So yeah, I I think that it does it does create a wee

01:33:55

bit of strain and there's definitely some some interesting kind of dynamics out there on the track just around like

01:34:00

who talks, who doesn't, um you know, depending on what level of competition it is and you know whether someone is is

01:34:07

sort of focused too much on other people and some people are too focused on themselves and so yeah, it is it is very

01:34:12

very fascinating. But I love that. Like that's when I just feel the most alive

01:34:15

is is when we're in this this kind of, you know, this this arena and and everyone's got their own personality and

01:34:21

their own way of doing things. And it's it's just super fascinating to kind of

01:34:24

jump on that that bandwagon and and just get brought along. So >> yeah, you look like you're in your

01:34:29

element out there. Like you're you're ging the crowd up, getting the crowd to

01:34:32

cheer along, which um I find really strange cuz I'm most of your jumping training is probably done like in in

01:34:37

this quiet track in Christ Church with nobody around, no sound. And then um you what you want for competition is the

01:34:43

complete opposite of that. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think I think ultimately like you have to like you

01:34:50

have to be good internally like you have to know your cues, you have to be confident in your own ability. Um and so

01:34:55

I'll only use the uh the crowd once I've built that platform. Um so in a in like

01:35:01

a in a final or in like a diamond league or in like a big competition like I'll

01:35:04

generally only get the crowd going from kind of high 220s into the 230s. Um, some guys will like, you know, from the

01:35:10

get-go just like bring the crowd in and try and get as much noise as possible. But, uh, for me, I'm, you know, it's all

01:35:15

about finding my rhythm and finding my timing. And then once I've got that, like the crowd's almost the cherry on

01:35:19

top. Like that's the thing that, you know, back home, we we work on the the fundamentals. We work on like all the

01:35:24

the the stuff that's ultimately going to get me over the bar. But then, yeah,

01:35:27

being able to kind of share that and and and put that on display in front of uh an audience is is I mean, it's why we do

01:35:34

it, right? like we we do it to to show people a good time and and and get them enjoying our sport and and and wanting

01:35:40

to be, you know, be athletes as well. So, uh yeah, to kind of bring that element in uh when you're jumping the

01:35:46

best is is is a really cool cool thing to do. >> No, not everyone does that though. Not

01:35:50

everyone engages with the crowd. >> Yeah, not everybody. Um but I think it

01:35:54

does add to the field. Like um there's definitely a few guys who I love competing against because they do use

01:36:00

the crowd really well. Um because I think at the end of the day, like you know, we're putting on a performance and

01:36:05

given that we're out there for 3 hours, like we want the crowd engaged. Like the

01:36:08

worst thing is going to a comp where you're jumping and it doesn't really

01:36:12

seem like anyone cares. Like they're all focused on other things cuz there's

01:36:14

always lots of stuff going on in athletes field, you know, athletic stadium. There's there's always running.

01:36:18

There's always other field events going on. And so like to get the crowd like

01:36:22

around you and amongst it and like supporting and following along is is it makes our job just so much more

01:36:28

enjoyable. So yeah, there's definitely certain guys who like I want to compete

01:36:31

with because I know they do that. Um but yeah, it's it's always a good time when

01:36:35

you get it right. >> Now for you um at the pointy end of the the Paris Olympics, um it was like neck

01:36:41

and neck with you and another guy. So you could have split the gold. You could have had a gold medal each like joint

01:36:45

gold medal winners. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Why didn't you go with that? Like

01:36:50

could could you have lived with yourself if you said no, I want to carry on fight

01:36:54

to the death and then you went home with the silver. Would would you have been okay with that?

01:36:57

>> I Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I I think it was funny like obviously um it happened in

01:37:02

Tokyo and so >> and it's really rare, right? It doesn't happen. >> Super rare. Like I mean that's those two

01:37:08

competitions the only time I've ever been a part of a competition that has gone to a jump off. Uh and so to and I

01:37:13

mean obviously in Tokyo I wasn't part of that jump off or you know there never

01:37:16

was a jump off but um that was those are the only two competitions I've ever been

01:37:19

a part of where they've been to it. So like it's impossibly like like the the

01:37:23

chance of that is impossibly low um to actually even get to that point. And so yeah, but given what had happened in

01:37:29

Tokyo, we had actually talked about it quite a bit. Um, you know, we debated over the dinner table with the boys, you

01:37:34

know, on tour and I'd talked to my coach about it and like talked to Maddie and

01:37:38

and all these things. And and I think for me like what I had always said in my standpoint was that like for me sport is

01:37:46

about like like how I mentioned you know when I was a kid like going to completion and finishing the event and

01:37:53

and and you know not stopping until until the job has been done. Uh and you know obviously in high jump people can

01:38:00

see it and go well you jump the highest you both jump the highest so why would you keep going? But I think for me high

01:38:06

jump's more than that. It's it's also about the competition you have with your

01:38:09

competitors and and and making sure that there's one guy left right at the end of

01:38:13

it, one, you know, one man standing. Uh and whether that means you you jump higher and higher or whether it means

01:38:18

that you kind of have to break a deadlock by jumping slightly lower, it's it's ultimately the same thing for me.

01:38:23

Uh and so yeah, so I always knew that if I was in that position, I never thought

01:38:26

I would be in that position firstly because of just, you know, how how unlikely it was. I I felt like being a

01:38:33

part of a jump off and sharing a moment that would then add value to our sport and value to people watching back home

01:38:40

and and inspiration to people and and hopefully get people to see it as a really cool moment

01:38:45

>> um was was the thing that was way more important to me than actually winning

01:38:50

jump off. And so if I got silver, I mean I to this day I stand by it. Obviously it's easy for me to say now.

01:38:56

>> Um it's easy for me to say now, but you know genuinely if I'd gotten that silver

01:39:00

um I still I would have been more proud of that than two golds because for me that represented

01:39:06

a moment an opportunity where I had a choice to stop or continue on and finish a job. Uh and ultimately I I had the

01:39:14

courage to be able to do that. So yeah, it's it's pretty scary. like me and me

01:39:18

and Shelby will be interlin for the rest of our lives as being the two guys who who were able to kind of look at each

01:39:23

other in the eyes and and agree to continue on. Um, and I I feel incredibly proud for that. But, you know, at the

01:39:28

same time, that's that's not to say that, you know, in Tokyo, I I didn't

01:39:32

love what the the boys did. Uh, I was in that final. I I was there watching uh and when they did split the gold, I I

01:39:38

genuinely thought that was history being made and and I loved it. But at the same

01:39:41

time, I knew that, you know, for me it was it was going to be different. >> It's interesting. I don't know if this

01:39:46

is something you thought of, but um just looping back to something you said before about your mom, you know, when

01:39:50

you were five or six years old and you were playing soccer and then you want to switch to rugby and she was like,

01:39:54

"That's great, but you got to follow through and finish the season first."

01:39:57

It's like this is how you were raised. You do something and you follow it through to completion.

01:40:00

>> Oh, absolutely. And I I think I think for me, you know, the the journey that I

01:40:05

took in doing that jump off was more important than the result of that jump off. You know, for me, like I obviously

01:40:12

remember the gold and I obviously remember the jump, but I also remember for me the most special thing is I

01:40:18

remember looking in Shel's eyes and knowing that he wanted to keep going just as much as I did. And like that

01:40:23

will be my moment that I'll never forget is is when I when I realized that there

01:40:27

was an opportunity to to continue on and and I I think I suppose I suppose I liken it a wee bit to also the fact that

01:40:34

like when you're jumping really well and you have a lot of confidence, like that's it's so much fun. Like I love

01:40:38

high jump in that moment. And so it's almost like getting to a point where I feel that way

01:40:44

cuz I I was super confident. I I felt really good jumping that day. Almost like, hey, do you want to do a few more

01:40:50

jumps? Like you're in good shape. Like do you want to do a few more jumps or do

01:40:52

you want to just stop? It's like of course I'm going to say I want to do

01:40:55

more. Like it's like that's the moment I've I've worked towards. That's the

01:40:58

moment that I've finally got an opportunity to to show the world how good I am and and also just use this

01:41:04

these amazing jumps that that I've built up over, you know, a good amount of

01:41:08

time. I finally got an opportunity to do that. Like why wouldn't I? >> And you you that winning jump you

01:41:13

cleared it easily, eh? >> Like so like you weren't even close to touching the bar. What? 3 cm maybe?

01:41:19

>> Yeah, something like that. >> Yeah, it was like um it was crazy. It

01:41:22

was so So what what what are you what are you thinking when you have that jump? Are you just in flow state or are

01:41:26

you >> Yeah, I think um Well, it was actually quite it was interesting. So in that um

01:41:31

I mean obviously I'm in comms with Jimmy the whole time. Um, and and that's kind

01:41:35

of like, you know, we're we're always adapting and and working on on kind of

01:41:39

what what I need to do and what I need to be thinking about with the jumps and and it was interesting, you know, you

01:41:44

you go back to the the qualifying round, I was running too fast and, you know, I

01:41:48

was I was I was kind of hurrying and I didn't have great rhythm. That also kind

01:41:51

of was happening in that final. Um, so near the end in my attempts at 238 and then into the first couple attempts of

01:41:57

the the jump off, I was I was overstriding. I was running too fast. I I just didn't have the right rhythm. And

01:42:03

so what actually happened was um in that 234 which is the one that I end up clearing to win uh I put my mark in and

01:42:10

that's not something that you ever do like always what will happen is you get

01:42:14

more confidence more speed more intent and you have to move your mark out. So that means you got more room to to move

01:42:20

and and to run and and so what happened was I was getting really tired like I was fatiguing massively in

01:42:27

that point. I was super hungry. Like by that point like nutrition like I I was I

01:42:31

was done and like energy levels were getting pretty low and so Jimmy said move your mark in which was the first

01:42:37

time I ever moved my mark in. >> So it's like one less step or two less

01:42:40

step. >> It's just it's so it's one less foot. Um so it's it's still the same number of

01:42:44

steps. Um, but it's just recognizing the fact that you're not getting as much

01:42:48

distance out of each foot and so or out out of each step and and because of that

01:42:53

you're trying to push too hard in the the final moment rather than just allowing the jump to kind of come off

01:42:59

the end of a of a nice runup. You shouldn't feel like you're you should feel like you're generating

01:43:05

speed but not having to do it in a way that's like changing your body position

01:43:08

or you know like when you when you accelerate often you'll like lean forwards like that's just the the human

01:43:13

kind of >> you know it's just biomechanics but so for us we want to make sure we're still

01:43:17

up and often when you accelerate too hard that's when you lean forward and then your jumps just bad. So that was

01:43:22

happening in those jumps. Um, and so he made me move my mark in and I knew that in that last jump, like if I didn't

01:43:29

clear that, we were going to be there for a long time. Like, and the bar was going to be going down and down and down

01:43:35

and like that it was getting to the point where it was like kind of getting a little bit like on edge. Like I think

01:43:40

to jump 234 to win in the jump off is great because 234 still would have won a medal. And so it's like it's fine to to

01:43:46

have that as a as a final height. But if we had gone to 32 or 30 or 28, I think then that would have become an

01:43:53

opportunity or you know a potential thing where we would had to kind of reassess whether we wanted to continue.

01:43:59

Um, so I knew in that moment that that was like the one I had to get and yeah, was able to kind of settle myself down

01:44:07

again, like the qualifying round, deep breaths, slow down, just allow the jump to happen. And as soon as I put my foot

01:44:14

down, I I knew I knew it was the jump. >> And are you thinking anything or nothing

01:44:18

at all? >> You just think about that. >> Um, yeah. Uh, yeah. But then once once

01:44:23

your foot goes down, you kind of know if you're in the right position or not just because of, you

01:44:28

know, how many times you do it. Um, and once I put that foot down, I I realized that that there was a decent chance that

01:44:34

I was going to clear that bar. And so, you know, you sort of start rising up and up and up and up and then you start

01:44:40

kind of rotating over the bar. You don't feel the bar. The bar's still there and

01:44:45

then you kind of flick off the ed off the end of it and that's then we start

01:44:48

kind of coming down again. and and I I knew that I hadn't touched the bar. And

01:44:52

so that was like that was a pretty cool moment just to be able to kind of >> just really like time just slows down

01:44:58

and and you just feel like that that jump goes on for so long and then you hit the mat and it's just like boom like

01:45:06

and then time is just like like I then I don't remember what happens after that

01:45:11

cuz after that it's like the crowd just goes crazy. I can't hear anything um

01:45:15

because I'm just you know like just it's just that massive release. Uh, and then

01:45:19

obviously I go running around the field and >> Oh, the the the commentary is I iconic.

01:45:24

Okay. >> Yes, he can. >> How many times have you watched it? >> Uh, so I've never actually watched the

01:45:30

whole comp full uh like fully through. Um, it's something that me and Jimmy have been intending to like sit down and

01:45:35

actually watch. Um, but yeah, I've I've seen the winning jump quite a bit.

01:45:39

>> So the um Yeah, you see so you famously go running on the the javelin field

01:45:43

afterwards. Is that um was that spontaneous premeditated? Uh it was kind of a little bit premeditated. So I I was

01:45:50

sort of like kind of thinking like just in my you know my cockiness of like oh if I if I win like what am I going to

01:45:56

do? Um, and like everyone like through the comp had been talking about how amazing the crowd was in in Paris and it

01:46:03

was like you know there was there was like 80,000 people in St France and you know there was there was obviously a

01:46:08

huge French kind of element to that but there was also just like yeah the vibes were just good you know like you can you

01:46:13

can often sense going into a into a stadium um you know like cuz I mean we we compete in a lot of big stadiums but

01:46:20

sometimes like it will just feel a little bit off or like they'll be interested in one thing but not super

01:46:24

interested in others and like they'll be they'll very nationalist or like

01:46:27

whatever it is like you can often just like tell but in Paris genuinely felt like so like they just cheer for

01:46:33

anything they got behind it they were just super stoked to be there everyone just was having a real time and so we

01:46:38

kind of always talked about this like all the events like you know they come off and be like oh man that crowd was so

01:46:42

cool and so I kind of wanted to do something that like thanked the entire crowd cuz what often happens like we're

01:46:49

in one part of the stadium if I win and run towards my family then that part of the stadium is like obviously sharing

01:46:54

that moment with me the rest of the stadium is kind of a little bit isolated. Uh and so in those last few

01:46:59

jumps when we were getting the crowd going and and and getting them clapping, the entire stadium was was joining in

01:47:04

and it really felt like they were all kind of focused on us. And so yeah, I before my 234 uh jump, the Javelin girls

01:47:12

walked past us on their victory lap and so I knew that I knew that I'd finished

01:47:17

and so I genuinely was >> So it wasn't a health and safety issue. >> No. So I was thinking about I was like,

01:47:21

"Oh, channel girls finished." Like [ __ ] I reckon the field's available. And so

01:47:25

and so that was that was kind of one thing that I sort of knew yeah I did know I was going to do it. Um and and

01:47:31

once I did that jump I was like yes sweet I can go for a run now and then obviously ran out and and and the whole

01:47:37

crowd and the whole stadium. >> [ __ ] You're quite a showman. Eh love

01:47:41

engaging the crowd. >> Yeah. Well I think I think you know like I they're such a big part of it for us

01:47:47

you know like we we can't do what we do without them. um you know, if we don't

01:47:51

have support and we don't have people turning up, then you know, they my bills

01:47:54

aren't going to get gonna get paid. So, you know, part of it is is that, but

01:47:57

also like I think, you know, I I just think of all the amazing moments that I've had when I've been watching sport.

01:48:02

Uh you know, I'm a massive sport fan. I I love I love watching rugby. I love

01:48:07

watching football, Formula 1, you know, all these different things. It's it's

01:48:09

it's yeah, I just I just love parking up and watching. And so, if I can also

01:48:14

provide a few moments like that and that that feeling of kind of last gasp, is he

01:48:18

going to do it? Is he not? um then then that just makes my job so cool. So yeah,

01:48:22

I really really appreciate anyone who cheers for us. Um you know whether I'm

01:48:26

you know there or on the TV or whatever it is like it it does it is something we

01:48:31

genuinely feel um and and it's definitely one of the big reasons I do it. >> So um August 7, 3 days earlier there

01:48:37

were tears of By the way, this is a hell of a journey. Eh, it's something that

01:48:41

that only happens over the the space of like a few seconds each jump but hearing

01:48:45

it like play by play it's really cool. Um, you like reflecting on it? >> Yeah, I do. I do. Like I think um yeah,

01:48:53

it's it's I think it's just like I I have a deep feeling of satisfaction that we worked

01:48:59

really hard last year. Um and you know, everything was geared towards that competition. Um but also like now more

01:49:07

and more like I know in those moments like when it's a hard comp and I really

01:49:12

have to work for it, that's it's just so much more enjoyable at the end of the

01:49:15

day. um than compared to just kind of cruising through and winning something just outright. So yeah, the fact that I

01:49:23

won the games, if you told me that like at the start of the year like you're

01:49:26

going to win the Olympics, I I would have freaked out a wee bit, but I I would have believed you. If you told me

01:49:31

I was going to win the Olympics in a jump off, you know, in front of 80,000 people, like one jump to win it all and

01:49:38

then, you know, the rest is history, I that's the thing that I would have been

01:49:42

like, whoa, hell no. Like I'm not that kind of guy. I'm not that kind of

01:49:45

competitor. Um, but now it's the the thing that really makes me enjoy it >> with you. So, you had like tears of like

01:49:51

devastation or nerves or anxiety on on the qualifying. Um, what about 3 days later? Were there any like tears of

01:49:57

elation or anything? >> No, not really tears. Like I Yeah, it's interesting. Like I I never really felt

01:50:01

like I shed a tear after the games. Um, I think I was probably in shock a little

01:50:06

bit. Uh, you know, I think I think there was definitely a few days there where I

01:50:09

just like I just just didn't believe it. But um no, I think I think it was incredibly fitting like having to go to

01:50:16

those depths in the qualifying and having to to really like be in that space and sit with you know the the kind

01:50:24

of challenge to me is and at my very being and and at my whole was was the perfect thing for that final. Um, and

01:50:31

then once I got to that final, it was just freedom. Like I, you know, whether I came fifth or sixth or, you know, I

01:50:37

won, like I was just I knew that I'd proved to myself that I I I fitted there

01:50:43

and and and I was one of the best in the world. So yeah, obviously, you know, to

01:50:47

win was was great. But yeah, to to kind of put that that feeling of of, you know, am I good enough to bed uh in that

01:50:54

qualifying round was was, you know, longterm for me was was the greatest thing I could have got out of that.

01:50:59

>> Yeah. And there's been so much success since then as we've um established.

01:51:04

>> So you said you were at the stadium till midnight. So what happens next? Um yeah,

01:51:09

after that uh you have to go through press. So there's like the mix zone. Um

01:51:14

and then I was about halfway through that and then we had to we got pulled out to go to the medal ceremony um

01:51:19

because it was the last night of track and field. So the medal ceremony was like straight after the event. Um did

01:51:23

that then went back to media because I hadn't finished media and then we had a

01:51:28

press conference. uh which was like separate media and then I had drug testing uh and then and then I got out

01:51:35

of it from there. So yeah, it's it's always busy. Like it's funny like Maddie

01:51:39

always knows like if I do really well like if she's not there or even if she

01:51:43

is there, she's like if if I do really well, she like just won't text me for 4

01:51:46

hours cuz she like knows that it's going to be busy. Um and yeah, it was a real

01:51:50

whirlwind. Like Jimmy was there with me uh from the the uh from the medal ceremony. Um, so yeah, we were able to

01:51:58

like have a real cool moment um, under the stand and and be able to just celebrate together and then we just kind

01:52:02

of cruise through all of that stuff together. Um, which was super cool. So yeah, it's it's it's quite nice as well.

01:52:08

Like it gives you a bit of a calm before the storm. Like obviously you're doing a

01:52:10

lot of media and and various other things, but it's like just being able to kind of sit with that moment um, you

01:52:15

know, with yourself and and also with the other competitors cuz the medalists kind of all have to do it together. um

01:52:20

is is a very special kind of moment to share and then and then you kind of leave the stadium and and everything

01:52:26

kind of just explodes from there. >> What are you thinking during the medal

01:52:29

ceremony? How do how do you not cry during the national anthem with a gold medal around your neck?

01:52:33

>> Yeah, I I I think like because it was straight after the comp, like I was just

01:52:38

like >> I was so hungry and like so tired that like I was just like barely like I was

01:52:44

just smoked at that point. Um, but no, I mean I I shed a tear this year at the medal ceremony in in Tokyo. Uh, that

01:52:50

that because that was the next day. Like I think it gave me a little bit more time to like really think about what was

01:52:54

going on. Um, but yeah, it's just it's just, you know, I'm just super grateful

01:52:58

for those moments. >> Yeah. Who's the first person you called when you get reunited with your phone?

01:53:03

Uh so after the qualifying, mom was the first person I called um to apologize to

01:53:07

her cuz I I didn't I didn't know like you know what what had happened in in in

01:53:11

their neck of the woods but I I assumed that you know she would she would have gone through that roller coaster with me

01:53:15

together. So um yeah I I called her and and and said sorry. Uh but then yeah after

01:53:22

after um after the final I I'm not sure who I call first. >> Was your phone blowing up?

01:53:28

>> Yeah. you I I just I don't usually turn it on. Um cuz like Jimmy was there,

01:53:33

Maddie was there. Um and it was actually probably mom and dad as well. Um just to

01:53:37

say thanks and and and just hope that they're all good. Um but yeah, it would

01:53:41

have been them and then and then shortly after that would have been my team back

01:53:44

home as well. >> Would you say it's life-changing winning an Olympic gold medal?

01:53:48

>> Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, 100% it is. Um but but not like not drastically like,

01:53:54

you know, I'm still the same person. and I still have to wake up every day and

01:53:56

and do what I do. But um I think it just gives me a huge amount of confidence moving forwards to to know that what I

01:54:02

do is is is worthwhile and and you get some pretty cool results out of it. So yeah, I I think that it's um it's given

01:54:09

me a lot of sense of pride and in what I do and and and the work that I've put in

01:54:13

and and to be able to kind of show that to people is is is really cool. But yeah, I I'm yeah, I wouldn't say

01:54:20

drastically um but yeah, a nice in a nice way. And like it's over a year ago now. Do

01:54:27

people still recognize you? Where are the places that you can't go to or that

01:54:31

you avoid if you just want to be in your own head space? >> Um well the places I don't go to so much

01:54:36

these days would be like the bottle store. Like you know you just got to got to um got to maintain. It was funny. I

01:54:42

actually one of the first times I kind of realized that people do recognize me quite a lot more now is um I was in the

01:54:47

supermarket straight after the games. I'd just gone home. I was actually two.

01:54:50

Yeah. So, one of them was um I was in the I'd just gotten home. I was in the

01:54:55

supermarket and I had a bottle of champagne in both hands and I was like going up to pay and some guy came up to

01:55:00

like shake my hand and so I had to kind of like be awkward. >> Yeah. And so I was like holding these

01:55:04

two like bottles of champagne and he just kind of like look at me like, "Oh

01:55:06

yeah, good on you mate." Like go celebrate. And then the other one was that then I went and caught up Jimmy. Um

01:55:11

it was like the first time we caught up since the games cuz I went traveling afterwards and he went home. Um and we

01:55:15

went and got dominoes. And so we went in and like ordered Domino's and we were

01:55:19

both sitting there like waiting for our pizzas and um yeah, a guy came up and he

01:55:23

just was like he's like, "Mate, oh, you're like the high jumper in the

01:55:26

coach." Like, "Oh, good on you." Like, "Oh, and good to see you eating some

01:55:29

good food." I was like, "Oh, oh, no." So, yeah, I I I wouldn't say

01:55:35

I'm that much more aware of it, but um yeah, you you definitely do get recognized quite a bit now.

01:55:40

>> Where do you keep the medal? >> The >> the Olympic gold. The Olympic one is

01:55:46

just at home tucked away somewhere. Um, but draw >> very very close to like I can get it out

01:55:51

when I need to show people. So, yeah, it's it's it's yeah, it gets it gets

01:55:56

brought out quite a lot still. >> Does it have a name or anything? >> No.

01:55:59

>> No, you haven't nicknamed it. >> It's just just my metal.

01:56:01

>> Is it in is it in good condition? I've seen I've seen a few that are in um

01:56:04

really poor repair. Eric Murray springs to mind. >> Yeah, it's it's I wouldn't say it's in

01:56:08

great condition. like um it's it's definitely got its fair shares of of of

01:56:12

nicks and and scratches and stuff, but I think that's also like part of its story, right? Is is you know, you you

01:56:18

you get it out and you show people and um yeah, there was one time I was a little bit I was a little bit pissed

01:56:24

off. I was going through security. I was I was coming up to Oakuckland to to meet

01:56:27

with some people and so I had in my bag and and it always gets pulled up in security cuz it's like a big big hunk of

01:56:31

metal. And so the lady like brought it out and she was like looking at it and she said, "Oh, this is cool." And then

01:56:35

the guy who was getting his bag checked next to me saw it and was like, "Oh,

01:56:39

sick. Is that like an Olympic medal?" And so he grabbed it and then he like

01:56:43

looks at it and then he just like dumped it down on the desk like on the desk again and like all the security people

01:56:47

were like, "Bro, like what are you doing?" Like and so I was Yeah. So there's like a little bit of a dent

01:56:52

because of that. Um but yeah, I mean that's that's just part of the story,

01:56:55

right? Yeah. >> It must be really I don't know if this is something you dwell on too much, but

01:57:00

like when you when you were a kid growing up like there were no high jump role models. So there there was no sort

01:57:05

of pathway. Now you've sort of created this pathway. >> Yeah. I mean yes I have like I mean I I

01:57:12

looked up to you know I I mean I my first games that I watched was Athens 2004. So it was like Sarah Alma um the

01:57:21

Ever Ever Swendell's Hish Carter you know all these guys like they they were

01:57:25

my heroes. Um and now that I've got to where I am like I just realized that like I just had to be me to get there.

01:57:34

like the all the things that I had deep down in me from being that kid watching Athens, like they were the things that

01:57:39

were going to make me an Olympic champion. I just didn't realize it yet. And so, you know, it's it's all very

01:57:44

well looking up at at all these athletes and and seeing the pathways they've been

01:57:47

on, but like at the end of the day, like the next high jump is not going to be the same as me. They're not going to

01:57:51

have the same strengths. They're not going to have the same weaknesses. Like,

01:57:53

they'll be they'll be good at other things. They'll have a different life.

01:57:56

So yeah, so long as they just realize that it is possible, um you just got to get out there and and work as hard as

01:58:02

possible and just turn up every day and you know, just enjoy what you do and and

01:58:05

and just work as hard as possible. That's that's pretty much it. Like you

01:58:09

know, if you want to be the next Hamish or, you know, the next Zoe or whoever it

01:58:13

is in life, um yeah, just work really hard. >> What would you say your best and worst

01:58:18

habits are? >> Uh best and worst habits. My best habit is that I I put a very high price on

01:58:27

sleep. Um, so I'm I'm in bed by 10:00 every night and I have the exact same

01:58:32

wake up every every morning. Um, and so that's that's my main kind of source of

01:58:37

recovery, I suppose. U What's the alarm? 6:00 a.m. 7:00 a.m. >> N 7:30. I'm not

01:58:43

>> That's a lot of sleep. >> Yeah, I don't 9 and 1 half hours.

01:58:46

>> Yeah, it is. Um, but that's just what I need, right? I mean, I've always need a

01:58:50

lot of sleep, but um you know, especially when I'm training really hard, I I I sleep a lot. So, that's

01:58:55

probably my best habit. Uh worst one is I love snacks. Just love snacks. I like So, most of the year I'll be having like

01:59:01

chips and lollies relatively regularly. Um and then only like in the last kind of um couple of months before I need to

01:59:08

really lock in do I do I kind of really pull back on that stuff. But, >> does it matter?

01:59:12

>> Um I mean, ultimately at the end of the day, like I've got the results, right?

01:59:16

So, you could probably say it doesn't really matter that much. Um, I think anything in moderation is is is pretty

01:59:21

fine. I'm I'm not I'm not a massive Yeah, I'm not a massive no-go of of

01:59:25

things, but yeah, there's definitely times where you have to lock in a we bit

01:59:28

more. >> Is there a what if that keeps you up at night? >> Uh, no. >> No,

01:59:35

>> not really. No, I feel like I feel like at the end of the day, I've I know deep

01:59:39

down that I've worked really hard for what I've what I've got. >> Um, you know, I've obviously got a lot,

01:59:43

but I also worked really hard for it. So, that's the main thing that I I remember.

01:59:46

>> What about future goals? Um 240 is a big one. Obviously, I think I think that's

01:59:51

the thing that that >> I feel like is very capable and something that I really want to do. Um

01:59:57

but yeah, other than that, um yeah, that'll be the next year or so. And then

02:00:02

and then from there on, it's it's just about setting my life up for for what is

02:00:05

postport and and making sure that's as fulfilling as possible. >> Yeah. What about personal goals?

02:00:10

>> Um personal goals, uh I want to learn French. Uh we we spend a lot of time in

02:00:17

France now uh and and kind of one of my kind of goals which is kind of a little bit athletic but also very personal is

02:00:23

that I want to live in France um for like at least six months for the next few years um just just while it's the

02:00:29

European summer and so yeah learning French and and kind of integrating into their culture is something I feel like

02:00:33

I've got a really good opportunity to do right now. >> Why why France?

02:00:37

>> Just cuz it's a cool place. >> Yeah, it's just a cool place like I mean

02:00:40

>> bring back brings back good memories. Yeah, I mean we we based in Nice, so um

02:00:45

so like Mediterranean, it's it's a pretty cool spot. It's a it's an amazing

02:00:48

life um to be had down there and and and yeah, to be able to balance New Zealand

02:00:53

in there is is something I'm super grateful for. So yeah, I think one of the big things was like we wanted to

02:00:58

live somewhere um that's just just a nice place to go. Uh and and Maddie loves the beach. I you know, I I I love

02:01:07

the heat. Um there's there's access to great training facilities there. there's

02:01:10

there's a lot of people we know well. So, yeah, that's kind of where we ended

02:01:13

up. But, yeah, it's a good spot. >> And, um, if if your family and friends

02:01:19

were in another room talking about you, what are three words that you'd like

02:01:22

them to use to describe you? >> Um, three words would be friend, >> honest, hardworking.

02:01:34

That's almost three words. We'll give you the fourth as a bonus. You've earned

02:01:39

a bonus word. They're great. They're cool words, eh? >> Are you proud of yourself?

02:01:43

>> Yeah. Yeah, I am. Yeah, I'm massively proud of myself. I think I'm massively

02:01:47

proud of like the guy sitting here 3 years ago is not the guy sitting here today. Um, and I

02:01:55

think for me that's that's the most important thing. You know, as as the

02:01:58

goals have gotten bigger >> and those dreams have become realities, I've had to grow as a person. And and

02:02:04

that hasn't always been fun. Um, but ultimately I've been able to kind of,

02:02:08

you know, take that challenge head on and and and be a better person because of it.

02:02:13

>> Well, I'm so proud of you. You'd achieved so much 3 years ago when you're

02:02:16

on the podcast and you've just done so much more since then. It's been inspiring and uh like from um like my

02:02:22

perspective and the perspective of the public, what we see is just snippets on the news or on YouTube every now and

02:02:27

then at these good >> snippets. >> Yeah. at these apart from the memes at

02:02:31

these sort of pinnacle events, but what we don't see is the like the the part of

02:02:34

the iceberg that's under the water, all the hard work, all the anguish and all

02:02:37

the sacrifice that goes into it. >> Yeah. Yeah. You don't um but you know,

02:02:41

at the end of the day, it's the the thing that all those results sit on top of. So, it's very important.

02:02:46

>> Yeah. Are you okay with being a meme? >> I love it. Yeah. It's

02:02:50

>> it's a great meme. What happened with that jump, by the way? >> Um so, that was 238. Uh it was my last

02:02:55

attempt at 238 before the jump off and I just went in with way too much steam. Like I I I kind of was like I'm going to

02:03:01

get up for this. I'm going to run real fast and just just put my foot down and

02:03:04

then and then I realized I'd run far too fast and and so I was like too late to

02:03:08

pull out of it and so I just popped under the bar and yeah, it's so funny. I

02:03:12

like I Yeah, some people know me as like the Olympic champion. Some people know me as like that high jumper who who is a

02:03:18

meme of And it's super funny. Like even even nowadays, like I reckon at least

02:03:22

twice a week I'll get people sending them through. Um but I really appreciate

02:03:25

it. I I I have no no um no qualms about it whatsoever. It's it's it's very

02:03:31

funny. >> Would you appreciate it as much if the outcome had been different?

02:03:35

>> Um probably not. But >> hey, this has been bloody great. This has been really awesome. Thank you so

02:03:41

much for the time. Um, thank you for being one of I don't know how many people, maybe two or three people that

02:03:45

has been a repeat guest on the podcast, but um, I'm so pleased we agreed to do

02:03:50

it because there's been just so much more going on in your life to catch up on and it's really inspiring.

02:03:54

>> Yeah, thanks Heaps. And I mean, look, you've had an amazing journey the last

02:03:57

few years as well. So, it's been very cool to come and check out the new Pod

02:04:00

Lab and and and see what you've been doing. So, yeah, it's it's it's great. I

02:04:04

can't wait for my my next visit in a few years time. I >> appreciate it. Hish Kurt, thank you so

02:04:08

much. >> Thanks, mate.

Badges

This episode stands out for the following:

90
Most memeable
90
Best performance
90
Biggest crowd reaction
85
Most inspiring

Episode Highlights

Olympic Champion's Journey
Finn discusses his journey from Olympic gold to aiming for new heights.
“I think the titles are more than I've ever imagined for sure.”
@ 05m 02s
November 16, 2025
Navigating Coach Relationships
Transitioning from one coach to another can be challenging, but it can also be rewarding.
“It was a bit nerve-wracking, obviously less than 12 months before the Olympics.”
@ 17m 55s
November 16, 2025
Family Support in Competition
The emotional toll of watching a loved one compete can be intense, especially for parents.
“She just walked outside and was just looking at the stars and breathing.”
@ 26m 08s
November 16, 2025
Financial Surprises
The speaker discusses the unexpected financial success in track and field, especially in Europe.
“A lot of people are probably surprised at how good of a living it is.”
@ 36m 23s
November 16, 2025
Mental Preparation
The speaker talks about their mental skills coach and the importance of grounding techniques.
“How can you ground yourself and enable the confidence for those moments?”
@ 45m 46s
November 16, 2025
The Pressure of Competition
Discussing the balance of routine and high-stakes competition in an athlete's life.
“For 8 months, it’s just about building the engine.”
@ 56m 20s
November 16, 2025
Rising from the Ashes
After facing failure, the speaker reflects on growth and the importance of challenges.
“You have to burn everything down to really understand what's going on.”
@ 01h 01m 20s
November 16, 2025
The Weight of Expectations
The pressure of qualifying weighs heavily on the athlete's mind, leading to self-doubt.
“"If I didn’t clear that bar, I wouldn’t have continued competing."”
@ 01h 18m 16s
November 16, 2025
15 Jumps in Paris
In the final in Paris, I did 15 jumps, an unprecedented feat.
“15 jumps.”
@ 01h 32m 23s
November 16, 2025
The Choice of Gold
Faced with a potential joint gold, I chose to continue competing for the win.
“I would have been okay with that.”
@ 01h 36m 56s
November 16, 2025
The Thrill of the Jump
Reflecting on the exhilarating moments of competition and the crowd's energy.
“If I can provide a few moments like that, it makes my job so cool.”
@ 01h 48m 16s
November 16, 2025
Future Goals
Setting sights on new personal and athletic achievements, including learning French.
“I want to learn French and live in France for six months.”
@ 02h 00m 15s
November 16, 2025

Episode Quotes

Yeah, I think your failures haunt you more than your successes.
Hamish Kerr: The Journey to Becoming an Olympic Champion
I just love being outside and love moving around.
Hamish Kerr: The Journey to Becoming an Olympic Champion
It’s like winner’s guilt in a way.
Hamish Kerr: The Journey to Becoming an Olympic Champion
Qualifying rounds always take ages; they usually take like two to three hours.
Hamish Kerr: The Journey to Becoming an Olympic Champion
I love that. That's when I just feel the most alive.
Hamish Kerr: The Journey to Becoming an Olympic Champion
I think it just gives me a huge amount of confidence moving forwards.
Hamish Kerr: The Journey to Becoming an Olympic Champion

Key Moments

Realization of Change16:34
New Coaching Dynamics17:54
Childhood Sports Journey29:10
Inspiration for Youth31:59
Pride and Pain1:04:13
Moment of Terror1:16:47
Final Jump1:22:53
Post-Competition Whirlwind1:51:37

Tension Over Time

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown