E13: SPACsgiving Special! Vaccine news, innovation vs regulation, fixing higher ed, challenge trials

hey everybody welcome back besties are back and it's a bestie spax giving congratulations to the queen of quinoa his second company david freeburg announces today hours before the taping of this special thanksgiving pod that he is taking metro mile public through us back and that best ec and here is the quote that as only chamath can tweet buffett had geico i picked metro miles i would just like to say that's how you move markets uh lebron james has three rings uh freeburg tell us what is metro mile uh and um well this isn't a self-promoting podcast is it i

mean no no but i think it's just you know it's your second company i started the company in 2011 when i was running climate when i was the ceo there and um you know we were climate was offering insurance at the time we learned a lot about the insurance markets and figured like hey you know telematics or connecting cars to the internet is going to be a big deal and we're going to be able to completely change the auto insurance industry so we set up this company i was the chairman from the founding in 2011 and you know been been chairman and i've been an

active investor in the business in every round since then um so the business has built some uh you know really compelling uh value proposition for customers and you know it's got really good unit economics and it's um you know needed its last round of capital to get profitable and turns out you know as we were thinking about that this summer that a stack was a really good path for the business given the inflection point it's at um and the basic premise of the business is instead of paying for insurance by month or time period the innovation here is you pay per mile yeah insurance

today is like you know you fill out a form and you get a price for insurance you pay that rate for six months of coverage but you know depending on when you're driving and how much you're driving you should be paying a different price right so we we kind of changed the model to a rate per mile and so if you don't drive you save you know so the average customer doesn't drive a lot with metro mile they save 47 over what they were paying with like geico or progressive reassurance uh and you do that with that odb port it's like a little plug-in device and increasingly we're

actually doing it directly by connecting to cars direct through ford and a couple other big automotive oems now have this ability to send the data directly out of the car because they're all internet connected now so um so that allows us to just basically you know see how many miles you're driving and the rate per mile is what we bill you each month times the number of miles you drove on your on your car and you you didn't mention how you drive i think that was a controversial concept for a while you know if you speed if you're right

is that on the roadmap yeah that is part of it today but frankly 70 of the price difference you get in auto insurance is from the number of miles you drive and only 30 percent is really in this variance around behavior you know most people are generally pretty good drivers so believe it or not so the real variance in terms of you know your risk to the insurance companies how many miles you drive so that really is the predominant factor so if we can accurately track that now what's interesting is like in a world of autonomous cars where you're like turning on the car

to be autonomous or fully self-driving at some point you know it's on and off you should be getting a different rate for those miles right so if the car is if your tesla is on autopilot on the freeway that should be safer than you on the freeway you shouldn't be paying as much even better you can you can kind of think about how this moves into a world where everything is dynamically priced and dynamically built usage priced yeah usage price and that and also fair so you know if you're a good driver and you're driving well or if you're using autonomous features you shouldn't pay as much and ultimately that translates

uh you know into a truly kind of more dynamic service and that's really where the world has to go because those low mileage drivers or those good drivers or those drivers using autonomous features should be paying considerably less so they'll start using our service and that'll force the other guys to raise their rates and it creates this huge you know kind of market mode um great we're in that we're in the we're in the very early days i mean it's like the first inning still so we're you know we're we're just getting going chimav you chose to do a pipe um with the spac

explain to the audience what a pipe is people don't know and what you loved about metro mile sure um i think the uh what what is a pipe a pipe is a a private investment in a public enterprise and basically what that means um is that uh you're making the round bigger right so it's kind of like sequoia does your series a and invest 10 million i would come in and put another 10 million and now your series a is 20 million um same terms as the um as sequoyah's round except you're now just grossing up the amount of capital um why are why is that helpful well what it does is it allows

somebody to price the deal so in this case david's back sponsor priced the deal did the diligence and decided to underwrite metro mile at that price and then they came to me and said hey um you know do you want to come and join this round essentially and um i got to know the business um a lot of things that david said basically are true the the thing that i will say is like you know everybody talks about um the value of machine learning right and data oriented learning um the most obvious thing that you can do is if you learn on top of a huge subset of data

especially out in the real world like driving data or any other kind of information is you should be taking risk on top of it and this is why sort of these next generation insurance companies to me are so interesting because it's probably where you're going to see machine learning um be used that just massive massive scale because you're just gonna reprice risk and make it as david said much more dynamic so anyways they showed it to me i um i really like the the product the metrics are uh really amazing and so um i joined it's great i'm really

excited for i'm really excited for uh friedberg yeah congratulations great jamaat and i've never worked on anything together so it's awesome we're doing our first project here on the all in podcast together all right so it sounds like a brilliant idea and i'm just pissed so i'm not part of it i know i'm feeling like i i read i read that like you're from me and sax yeah jason do you know about this i don't know anything i get i'm the latest cut out of it first we're both out of it i need to get my beak wet you two we got the wet thorpe can't get my beak you two narcissistic

besties have been have been running around all day touting every single unicorn you guys a bit of fun and robin hood i missed my allocation or uber or whatever yeah all right new bestie rule new bestie rule everybody gets a slice even a little tasty poo everybody gets their beak like the old neighborhood like the old neighborhood back a little share let's jason why don't you start an angel listen ticket for every all-in podcast listener yes all in podcast syndicate it will be on the syndicate.com ageless but yeah okay yeah we'll do it we'll do with us into kit.com

all in podcast and then we'll aggregate all these uh subscribers can i just say twenty percent carry and you guys can suggest ideas we'll do zero carry and we'll allow all the listeners to participate in our deals which i think would be pretty cool um yeah listen i love how every time you loop my business into this whether it's podcasting or syndicates you take out the money and the process i tell you what i have an idea how about we spec this week in startups and uh you do it for no participation i'm the father of growth you know how you grow by making things free

you want to maximize demand just make it free by the way uh on this topic uh sexy poo had this incredible tweet this week which was basically like wow this is like my 95th uh unicorn that went that filed to go public i mean literally every single unicorn that filed the speak tickle public sacks was an angel investor which is incredible but the best follow-up to eat was zach weinberg the co-founder of flatiron health whose tweet was i just want to congratulate myself on nothing for having not been a part of any of these companies i would like to congratulate myself for making no bets and taking no risk and getting no reward no

i thought i thought zach's tweet was the best sex don't you find it tiring like all these investments that you've made like don't these guys call you and want to do meetings and chat all the time i mean you know this has got to be like a huge amount of effort right well not not not i mean not just put the money in and turn around well you know if you're not on the board your obligation is basically to respond when somebody asks you for something and as an angel investor it is a little different when you're actually like leading around and you're a board member

i was making these investments back in 2012 2013 that's when these seeds were planted right these were 50k 100k 250k checks right so the responsibilities proportional to the dollar amount so somewhere a little bigger than that actually but um i mean i've written i've written checks you know seven figure checks in some of these companies well sex according to your personal balance sheet that we got from your accountants this week yeah phil hellmuth we see here a transaction for houzz is it true you did the series b of houzz the entire series b

no no i heard it was you led the series no no nea led that round i mean i invested a lot as an individual i did co-lead um the series b or c of atapar um that was one that i did as an individual that's incredible yeah that's amazing gonna be huge i have no idea what that company is but that sounds awesome they manage funds they do portfolio software yeah it's coming up on you know 100 million i'm just kidding i'm totally kidding i'm totally kidding let's start the pod jkl where are we gonna start well i mean i think now that we've also promoted exactly well i'm just happy to hear that that jason was cut out of your deal as much as me when

i yeah when i read about it on twitter i'm like i better not be the only best to cut out this thing all right you're right you're totally you're right you're right it is it is getting awkward now because people who watch this podcast assume that we do everything together like literally they're like well you guys go grocery shopping together you go on vacation together you guys live in the same time house yeah it's that's not how it works um i i think the first thing we should we should talk about is just this amazing uh moment in time when because of science

you know in this podcast started during the pandemic we have had as predicted by freeburg who gets to take two victory laps he said by the end of the year we'd have vaccines and they would have because of this mrna if i remember correctly 90 95 efficacy and sure enough the week after trump uh wins i'm sorry loses sorry sacks he lost actually um the week after trump lost i know you didn't vote for him um the week after he lost modern a pfizer then the next week moderna and then the next week oxford and i understand johnson johnson is about to announce something and all of these have 90 to 95 percent efficacy and that they're going

to be 40 50 and 60 million doses in december january and february just from the first two in america alone so friedberg if you were to put a number on when herd immunity hits because probably 20 or 30 percent of people have had it 20 30 percent of people have um some natural immunity how long is this going to take and could we be out of be doing this from you know a warriors game next year when are we going to be able to do this in person i think i don't know if it was test yeah i don't know if it was fouchy or someone that's closer to the operation shared that they do think

they can get 70 of americans immunized by may so um my may yeah so you know if you'll remember a few podcasts ago i think i tried to explain a big part of the budget that went into this operation warp speed was to parallelize production of these vaccines while they were being tested and so we've been scaling up the production and the manufacturing of these and if they weren't going to work we're just going to crash them right a couple billion dollars who cares it's a good option for the american people so we've got a ton of doses that have been

produced it's about packaging and distribution now and that's you know supposed to be kind of underway with the plan to be that on december 11th or 12th when they uh give the emergency use authorization these doses start showing up uh we went all in we basically went all in blind like we just shoved the chips in and said we're gonna make these vaccines even you know if they're not like it's more like a spray and pray um angel investment portfolio you know we we bought uh a but we bought like four different things or five different things we made it bets in all of them

and hope that one of them pays off and it turns out they're all going to pay off so you know or or chunk of them are going to pay off and we get to have them ready you know in time to kind of make a difference here now all that being said if you look at the case numbers in the us right now we could be as high as 30 percent of the american people have already been infected with coronavirus based on some estimates so as of the june 30th paper that was published from those dialysis patients and they did a pretty good statistical interpretation of looking at antibodies in

people's blood they estimate 10 of the american population was infected by coronavirus as of june 30th and then if you look at the number of people that have been infected since then and you apply this similar sort of multiple that you would assume based on tests you know there's an estimate that we could already be up to 30 percent of the u.s population has been infected wow and therefore immune and they're theoretically mostly immune let's just say that right and so sure there's anecdotes and so on but yeah let's just say generally yes immune and so you combine that with these vaccines starting to roll out and we get you know a pretty

kind of comfortable position in terms of the pandemic and hopefully a couple of months here and that's why the market's going nuts and that's why everyone i mean i don't know about you guys but i got some conference invites this last week for conferences for next year that have been canceled this year and we're being put on hold yeah so oh wow people are starting to lean for what time frame third quarter or fourth quarter uh summer july yeah so people are now assuming that and they're booking hotel spaces based on it that is extraordinary sacks you shared

this new york times story why don't you summarize it for the audience and i'd love to get your thoughts in addition to this as to what this recovery might look like if in fact we have more vaccine than we need and even you know a reasonable number of americans take it and don't believe that it's a conspiracy theory by bill gates to control and the illuminati and all that stuff yeah i mean this new york times story is pretty remarkable it's called politics science and the remarkable race for a coronavirus vaccine this came out i think it just came out today in

the new york times actually sorry it's published it published november 21st updated november 24th um and it's pretty remarkable it describes the effort by operation warp speed by the administration by pfizer by maduro and that kind of gives you the behind the scenes play-by-play and reading the article you have to come away thinking that the trump administration did a pretty good job with this whole warp speed project um i don't know if the new york times uh realizes that it's making the trump administration look so good or maybe they don't care anymore because he's he's lost the election but the article does make

um the administration look very good i mean competitive first very confident first of all they shoveled money to the right people they you know they offered fiser money pfizer didn't want it or need it but modernity did so they got a few billion dollars moderna uh they parallel processed a bunch of different attempts here so that if one company failed the others might succeed there was a sort of a reaganite cutting of bureaucratic red tape wherever they could there were examples in the story of a drug company needing something some supplies or what have you

and they would call the administration and they would you know make it happen and then finally the administration didn't do anything to um to kind of mess with the science you know um in fact they describe how this the um this new experimental mrna technique that they used to generate the vaccine they had the code for that within two days they actually had the vaccine sort of printed if you will within weeks and really what took all this time were the human trials with you know the three stage human trials which the administration did not do anything to speed up

and probably the irony of ironies the supreme irony is there's a story there's a there's a bit in the story it actually begins with the uh this guy slowly who's the head of the trump administration's effort to produce the vaccine he actually slowed down the moderna human trials by about three weeks because they weren't including enough minorities in the you know in the in the trial and that cost him three weeks if it weren't for those three weeks the modernist vaccine would have happened before pfizer and it would have come out about a week before the election

so you gotta wonder like trump has got to be pulling out his hair about um what about about about this twist of fate david how does it attribute credit for warp speed and i'm going someplace with this so i'm just asking you the question well i don't the article's not trying to attribute credit they're just kind of describing the behind the scenes of of how pfizer moderna came up with their vaccines and um it just but but in in describing you know pfizer modernity did the work of creating the vaccine but in describing the ways that warp speed contributed

they did things that were only helpful and nothing that was harmful and so in that sense it made the trump administration look quite good yeah i think the point is that the warp speed folks which is probably the least well-known working group working on coronavirus to the rest of the public is because it was a lot of wonky insiders it was sign of almost proving the exact opposite of what trump typically does which is you know some idiotic nepotistic leaning where it's his daughter or it's his son-in-law running around um you know completely and effectively you know

uh doing something um where they become sort of front and center for taking credit um in this case it was just a bunch of policy walks you never heard about the project we only know about warp speed because a handful of us have talked about it um and it turns out to actually have been good because they knew what they were doing and they do enough to to not try to seek the credit and just get out of the way i mean it it proves almost the antithesis of how the trump campaign you know managed their time in the white house well i mean i you have a point where you know i was kind of

reading this article wondering you know where was jared kushner because if kushner knew about this there's no way he slows down the moderna vaccine by three weeks um i mean that might have made the difference right there and whether trump wins or not can you imagine the effect on the election if the vaccine had come out one week before november 3rd decide i think trump would have won decidedly if he had a vaccine or two out with 90 percent but i think he had no credibility even though modern and pfizer were saying late november and he said the the vaccines are around the corner

his whole tenure was based on so much lying he was the boy who cried wolf he's he was the president who cried wolf by the time he told the truth and he was telling the truth about the vaccines he it was like oh my lord he he told the truth in the final three months can i give you the opposite david of that which is that if modernity basically says hey guys we have a vaccine that works for white people and a disease that's you know disproportionately killing blacks and you know hispanics and brown people uh native americans um and all of a sudden people are like wait what the

maybe they would have gone into georgia and they would have just crushed them even more and then you would have actually had the senate flip too so you could have had a whole kind of distribution of outcomes there in a different case because you could have had an angry reaction as well we don't know um i guess well yeah i mean i i think it's ironic that an administration that was constantly accused of white supremacy probably lost the election because they slowed down this vaccine trial group to include more minorities no i know but i think what we're

saying is it wasn't the actual administration it was somebody it was somebody that actually knows what they were doing we call that redemption in the movie when the person actually loses because they did the right thing it's kind of redemption free book when you look at these mrna vaccines you were educating us about them last night um and also for a long time uh tell the audience just one more time how um these work briefly and what the potential for them is in the future because i think a lot of us now are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel

this is going to be over we're going to be at conferences or going traveling to europe or whatever it is next summer but we all are all going to be scarred for life thinking you know when is the next coronavirus just like for a decade we were on pins and needles when is the next 911. so this is going to be scar tissue uh for a generation or two of people when the next covid comes how quickly will warp speed 2.0 go yeah it's it's a it's the right question um because our approach to doing vaccines may have just changed permanently

um so you know every cell has your dna and dna basically codes proteins uh every three letters of dna makes an amino acid codes for a specific amino acid there's 20 amino acids the way that dna turns into proteins is through rna so rna is kind of like a mirror copy of your dna it floats into these things called ribosomes in your cells and outcome proteins and those it's like a printer right and so those ribosomes make your proteins using those amino acid sequences coded by the rna so the way that the vaccines work historically is you'll get a dead virus which is basically the

protein of a virus your immune system then learns to kill that or that protein oh man jesus my dog your immune system then learns to remove that protein from your body uh and that's how you develop this memory uh your immune memory to a specific protein and so they put this dead art vaccine virus in your body and hopefully your immune system learns a good response to it mrna basically puts the rna in your body that codes for that protein your cells then make that protein and because it's making a lot more of the protein in a more consistent you know way

theoretically the idea is your body develops a much more robust immune memory and immune response without it overloading your system with all the immune cells trying to wipe that protein out right away and so on the challenge is you're putting rna in your body and we've always been worried about we don't know what the side effects of mixing rna in your body would be is it going to change your dna is it going to change your genetic makeup is it going to cause other delicarious side effects so this technology this capability this knowledge has been around forever i'm

not forever but for you know a long time and the idea has always been we could use rna in this way but you know no one wanted and we've used it in animals and we've used it in plants and we've seen the capabilities of using rna to do different things like this but this is a big leap and so uh you know we kind of left forward here getting to the point that we felt comfortable with you know rna as a treatment like this and it's um it's working so in theory in the future as sax points out you could take any virus or any bacteria you could read its dna

you could do that in an hour then you could take chunks of that dna and code rna force that your body makes those proteins and theoretically produce an immune response so that that's the that's the science of like how do you how do you create a new magazine i think that's the amazing part is the way it's described you know in this article is that it's almost like laser printing or 3d printing a vaccine it's kind of like the equivalent of that you just take the genome of the virus and you know boom you've got the vaccine and then all the other delay is about human trials

and testing of it but imagine if that there was the next coronavirus is 10 times as deadly you know something that says spreads as contagiously as smallpox and as you know as deadly as ebola or something like that we could have a vaccine the next day you know like you could we could have a challenge david would be as we'd have it the next day like we did here but we would be going through this three-phase trial and so i want to take a moment here and talk to chamoth about something which is challenge trials um in the uk they will start doing challenge trials for those people who don't know what a challenge

trial is essentially they expose you to something dangerous i.e a virus like covid and then they give you the vaccine and then they give you uh the virus as opposed to how we do a three-phase trial which is you give the vaccine to 30 000 people and placebo to 30 000 and then you come back three months later and see how many people got infected and it takes time and money whereas challenge trials only take risk on the individuals who are part of it chamath hundreds of people in the science community signed a letter and in the uk they're

going to be doing the first challenge trials in january the united states is not doing these i'm certain china is um do you think it's a moment in time where we need to think about the ethics and morality of challenge trials specifically and then if so how do you execute them with that how do you execute a challenge trial without it being unfair um or too dangerous for people obviously you're not going to just go into a prison and say hey anybody want to get 10 years off the sentence join the challenge trial that seems morally bankrupt but we let people climb mountains without ropes so

right well i think this speaks to a whole bunch of other issues that we've talked about on the pod before you know another example of this was section 230 before when we talked about it we had a body of law that was created in a moment of time that essentially was about framing and understanding a specific pathway and a way to use technologies that today look archaic and we have to rewrite the laws in order to just compensate and understand for where we are so if i if you double click on trials as an example you know if you have a solution for a rare disease

you can go in a specific pathway with the fda and get breakthrough and fast track approval but if you for example have uh you know a novel immunotherapy cancer drug you probably you cannot you know you have to do a multi-phase trial a typical three-phase trial you have to solve for very typical things like fatigue etc etc all these things slow progress down now in a world where we were somewhat flying blind 40 or 50 years ago we didn't have you know things like crispr we didn't have you know a real understanding of the genome we didn't have delivery mechanisms like cartie you

would say okay yeah we should be really really careful but i would say that the more you know the more you can ease up on the rules because you can actually empower people with a lot of information and it shouldn't take a disaster scenario for us to be iterative and experimental so i think the challenge trial is really important i think the concept of them make a lot of sense i think a lot of government should employ incentives to figure out who is eligible and why but if you're a healthy adult male or female and you want to participate in a trial for

whatever set of reasons you should be allowed to do so and companies that want to run those trials should be allowed to run them similarly if you want to find a complementary pathway through regulatory agencies to get drugs to the starting line you should be able to do those too and i think what we have to do is multi-path um these compounds going forward because i think that's where you accelerate all these technologies ability to actually solve these diseases freeberg why is it so controversial that um a rocket ship company uh or you know people who want

to climb on mountains without ropes or or a rocket ship coming like there are experimental pilots we have astronauts they they take unbelievable risk we send thousands of troops into harm's way for many different reasons many of which sadly die and they volunteer for those activities those people are volunteering and compensated but when we look at science and we look at a challenge trial scientists say this is morally reprehensible to compensate somebody for taking risk when that's exactly what we do in the army we do it with police officers and we do it with astronauts

help us understand how scientists think so differently than say war i don't know if it's scientists as much as it is you know regulatory framework like the some people would call it a nanny state and you know there are things that the nanny state assumes individuals uh don't have the capacity to understand the extent of the potential loss or the or the nature of the risk this is true for angel investing right you have to be a qualified investor to invest in a private company without appropriate disclosures and it's true in a lot of other contexts so

um you know to to give people the authority to make decisions like this it seems like my i have no point of view that i'm kind of making here but it seems like the the the the government assumes or the elected officials assume or the populist assumes that there are things that people aren't really equipped to make decisions on because they can't understand the risk because they're not qualified and that and they get excluded from those activities but sacs is the uh issue how should we reframe stuff yeah yeah well i think how should we frame it yeah i think assumption

of risk is is a is a really good principle and it is a way for people to engage in potentially harmful behaviors just because the behavior is is potentially harmful doesn't mean you don't get to do it um in the united states you're allowed to do things that are manifestly harmful to yourself like smoking well you know even worse if you're an organ you can now do all kinds of hard drugs i mean you can assume that risk for yourself so you know if in portland oregon you can now take heroin openly in the street with no consequence but you can't participate in a trial that could

basically cure a cancer that's insane to me i'll tell you what's the script yeah i'll tell you i'll tell you the flip side of it um you're allowed in nevada to play roulette i mean what the [ __ ] like you know it's got a negative expected value statistically factually for individuals but the individual doesn't have the capacity generally speaking that's playing roulette to recognize that every dollar they're spending at the roulette table is likely going to be you know taken away from them like there's some percentage of that that's going to be taken away

there's a five percent edge for the house on that uh on that game and um and so we make the argument in some cases that people don't have the capacity to understand risk but in other cases it's okay for them to not have the capacity to to take risk and i think that there is this notion of what some people call regulatory capture that probably encompasses both of these which is that there is some degree of profiteering that has created some set of laws that kind of manifestly capture that system in a certain way so there are profitable casino enterprises that

say let's get people to spend their money in a risky way that they don't understand and that becomes the law and then people in nevada are allowed to do that there are also pharmaceutical companies that will say we need to have huge regulatory burdens so once we make that big investment and we get patent approval and we can lock in that drug we can charge a lot of money for it so i would argue to some extent that the regulatory capture associated with the profit hearing that happens on the back end in pharmaceuticals has in large part driven the structure around risk taking in in drug trials particularly in the u.s i mean you can go

get whatever drug you want over the counter in mexico right i mean we have a very different system um it's the most it also happens to be the most expensive in the world and the the rationale is well you're the most protected right well the dr drug infrastructure here has created to your point because of regulation the entire um you know cro industry which is a multi-multi-billion dollar industry which basically is um essentially a retardant of r d velocity right its entire job is to slow things down create these double-blinded studies by the way and so many of these studies are not even double-blinded they're not even actually scientifically rigorous

they get basically blown apart after the fact so what are they really in the business of doing it's because they're exploiting a business model that was created by laws laws that were written by regulators regulators that were in the hands of lobbyists none of those folks truly understood at the time but especially today what's really possible so um you know it it does not make sense in the united states of america just writ large simply put that you can buy alcohol and drink yourself into the ground buy cigarettes and smoke yourself to death you know jump pull away your

money gamble away your money where your negative ev or open you know openly do illicit drugs but you can't participate in a thoughtful trial backed by scientific research in fairness jamath you can get away with smoking fentanyl uh in san francisco and oregon but it is illegal to use that plastic straw so be careful folks the laws are very clear here that plastic straw is going to get you in a lot of trouble i don't know what the fine is but it is i mean it would it wouldn't be so crazy if it weren't true but to your point like you would actually get arrested for having a plastic bag then you will for having fentanyl in san

francisco absolutely they'll they'll arrest you for the bag that the fentanyl is in but chester boudin will not arrest you for the fentanyl in the plastic bag uh stacks we've totally lost the script but uh chamath sort of bridged this with the 230 um discussion of common carrier and hey you know uh we we had great intent with this law but nobody saw social networks becoming this dominant addictive et cetera so we need to be more nimble as a government in changing these regulations whether it's straws fentanyl challenge trials or 230 you wrote a blog post about it

after we had our 2 30 discussion a lot of people started talking about it have you come to some conclusion as to an exit ramp for 230 or a way to maintain it without you know throwing the baby with the bath water yeah yeah well okay just can i make one concluding thought on sure of course so the reason why innovations happen so fast on the internet is because of you know one word permissionless right permissionless innovation nobody who has an idea for a startup needs to go get permission from someone in the government you know repeatedly

that's really what makes a difference you know mark zuckerberg as a you know sophomore in college can just build his project larry and sergey as phd students can just build their project ship it start you know getting users and they don't have to get the permission of a regulator whose incentive by the way is just typically not to get fired by approving something that might rebound on them in some you know in some bad way and to keep their job yeah keep their job i mean imagine if you know imagine just taking like a random example when elon launched starman remember where he put

the like he launched the tesla into space and there's like a astronaut in there and it was like this kind of really cool moment i assume he just did it i assume he didn't get permission from anybody to do it but could a moment like that have really happened if he did have to get permission no way it'd be like making its way up through the chain no one would know what to think of it no one would know whether they could be the one to approve it and then what if something goes wrong what if the tesla comes back down to earth and you know turns into a meteor or whatever those

the scenarios that be running through their heads nobody would have allowed it right and so when you just let entrepreneurs do things like good things happen right and that's why we've had so much progress on the internet and in so many of these other areas we've had much less progress because you know what what a system like that selects for is your ability to go lobby regulators as opposed to just building your project and shipping it i think that um one of the things that maybe happens is that you know we we're all expecting or maybe some of us i have definitely some version of

a new deal and some grand bargain and i wonder maybe whether the new deal and our sort of like our version of fdr over the next i don't know 10 years is the person that actually says guys we're going to have a wholesale rewrite of the regulatory infrastructure to account for technology just period we're going to start someplace reasonable and small and we're going to make common sense reforms just observing the times as they exist today right and we're going to go and systematically try to make these industries a little bit more resilient a little bit more

entrepreneurial you know a little bit uh less corrupted by regulatory capture and lobbyists and laws that just don't make sense 100 years later i mean it'd be great if we could do that the reason we can't is because how do you reform the law without the lobbyists getting their fingers in it right and and the problem is there's no there's no lobbyist for the company that doesn't exist yet right for the founder for the entrepreneur who's got an idea in their head but they haven't built their company yet there's nobody representing that person in washington

right and what happens is you get new regulations in washington some agency gets created they reach out and touch an industry now every player that's affected has to create their own lobbying you know not true and david what do you think about this what if the the advocate for the entrepreneur or the uncreated company an uncreated product is really the same as just individual civil liberties and rights how are they really that different because really what it's doing is saying the entrenched organizational infrastructure that runs my life gets deconstructed and then

power gets pushed down to be the individual that's tantamount to the same thing i think well we we have seen some we have seen some pushback well i mean there is some silver lining here if you look right now the citizens of california obviously people have been fleeing and we've been talking about california and the one party system here causing so many problems but we did have prop 22 uh pass and we now have 900 000 people have signed to recall governor newsom uh and these seem to be some pushback against this sort of nanny state uh where people can't make decisions and then additionally uh

today the sec announced um that they will allow gig working companies to give stock to employees as part of their compensation up to 15 of their compensation in fact uh hester um uh how do you pronounce her last name it's not pierce um you can't pronounce the word pierce purse first person no it's spelled pierce but a hester purse is worth following on the twitter e h-e-s-t-e-r-p-e-i r c e hester purse i had her on my pockets this week in startups and she um they're they're really getting aggressive in changing the accreditation law so anybody's

gonna be able to be an accredited investor you become sophisticated through a testing mechanism and now they want to let gig workers get by the way sorry here's a perfect example of um a regulatory body and infrastructure that actually has changed with the times i think the sec in fact i think we maybe we talked about this a little bit the last time i actually think one of the best trump appointees has been jay clayton um and i actually think jay clayton has done an incredibly good job and a lot of what he's done is just deconstruct this kind of nanny state and say people can become educated and make good decisions for themselves

and because it's in some it's an area that's relatively benign i.e investing people kind of just let it happen without a lot of pushback and everybody kind of generally supports it democrats support it republicans support it and the outcomes are really good to your point jason which is in a world of zero rates how do you expect any just you know average ordinary middle american who just works a decent job to save for their retirement to actually make enough money well they're going to have to get educated and they're going to have to find a way of putting their money to work in

in uh in assets that have a better return which literally was illegal up until very recently you were systematically letting the rich stay rich and you were blocking the poor from having an opportunity to advance like what if apple store employees could get their paycheck and say i want to take my paycheck 70 cash 30 you know restrict restricted stock units at this discount like we could let apple store employees make you know a million dollars after five or ten years of working there 10 20 years from now and have generational wealth change david sacks you had

comment well i was going to astromoth do you think this type of deregulation is going to happen in the biden administration yes what you're discussing is like a very really kind of classical republican reaganite idea right i i agree and and i think what's going to happen is you're i think you're going to continue to see deregulation in areas that are benign and non-controversial so i think the sec um the fcc i think all of these places you'll see movement i think you'll probably actually see a lot more choice and deregulation effectively in in medicare and cmmi

i think those places will move first and then i think it'll be up to some leader politician to then really rally the troops on some higher order bits um and one of the biggest higher order bits would be sort of around the broader healthcare infrastructure um social security education education is probably the biggest one that's that's like the it's just too sacrosanct for the democrats you cannot get elected without the teachers and so unless there is a startup that completely disrupts teacher pay and teacher compensation um then the public school teachers unions will continue to dominate a lot of the federal and uh state policy

for the worse unfortunately freeberg if you had one um regulation or series of regulations or regulatory body you would most like to see change for the good of humanity and you know americans and the rest of humans on the planet what would it be um uh probably health uh yeah it's probably the drug process the drug development process you know there was a um a gene editing uh program that ran and someone died this was what year was this 97 99 and they basically halted all gene editing programs for 13 years you know how many people died during that time it was [ __ ] it's a crazy crazy um uh fact uh where you know they're the um you know the one death is too many rule um you know basically doesn't take into account the uh the kind of broader implications

um on the downside so yeah i think that one's probably pretty important but you know there's a good interview if you if you want to hear some interesting thoughts and uh again uh not trying to be an advocate for any political point of view but um charles coke goes on tim ferriss have you guys heard this podcast interview i've listened to it yeah yeah and he highlights a couple of really good examples about this regulatory capture problem like if you're poor and you want to become a hairdresser and you know start a salon or go work in a salon and make money cutting hair

the cost and the burden for you to go get the necessary approvals from the cosmetician association is too burdensome for you know the average person who's poor needs to become a hairdresser and it's just insane that you can't just go be a hairdresser um the government government needs to ensure that people don't get bad haircuts it's worse yeah you could you you can you don't need a license to be the engineer that writes the machine learning code that either drives a car autonomously or that you know uh helps propel disinformation in the social network but you do need to have a license to give someone

a buzz cut oh that's a bingo statement right there yeah i mean in fairness i'm i am checking out sax's new haircut here and i'm kind of thinking so there should be more regulation there might be i was practicing without a license you work i mean yeah did you do that you can't see the result of this one you're so you're so white and pale you're you're blending into the background shade it's impossible to see where your skin ends your hair starts and the shade but i feel like the the regulatory if you think about the framework you know it extends into education too

like you can't go get an entry entry-level job without a quote-unquote college degree how [ __ ] useful is a college philosophy degree to someone that's trying to get an entry level job working at x y or z bank right like it's um it's a bit absurd that the structure is set up so that there are whether it's you know government or not but there is effectively a hurdle um which is this alternative to regulatory capture but it's like call it embedded system you know capture it like uh there is a significant kind of hurdle that you have to get through that costs a lot and

the point of entry has gotten too high for most and it really stalls things out and it's gonna cause more damage than good well and it's also been completely disconnected from the reality of your employment potential people are going into debt for two hundred thousand dollars in a liberal arts degree that provides no skill that is do we all agree that that makes sense like does anyone on this in this group argue for needing a bachelor's degree for everyone no i don't think i i think i think it's useless what do you guys think of isas income sharing

agreements these have become kind of lambda school does them a bunch of other schools david you saw a startup we just invested in that's doing them and i think you liked them at the demo day we did uh with kraft maybe you know this idea is who should take the risk for an education and when you look at an isa an income sharing agreement what they're saying is uh the school takes the risk they let you come to school for free they give you what would be the equivalent of let's say a fifteen thousand dollar coding camp or growth marketer uh risk then

you pay double that amount over five six seven years as a percentage of your income but if you don't get income if you don't break 50k a year you don't have to pay it back if you decide to go back to school or your income drops below 50 you don't have to do it can you imagine if a college had to make that promise they should do it they should start in college sports but they should do it imagine you you know duke basically went recruited kids and said listen we're going to pay you to come to duke we're going to get you educate educated we're going to teach you

how to play basketball better than anybody else and we're going to take five percent of your future earnings yes or no you're not going to have to go to boosters you're not going to have to take money you're not going to have to do any of this stuff on the side but just be your best learn to play the game we'll get you a reasonable education we'll give you a good infrastructure and we take five percent of the back end with the so you could cap the upside right or maybe maybe there's no cap and and but why do we always have to care about all of this like it's like

you know it's like whatever maybe it's five percent for the rest of your life you're going to pay the government 50 you get nothing in return so if you pay 5 and you get coach k to teach you how to shoot a jumper it's better than that right so why why isn't it possible and i remember how people had this unbelievably paternalistic allergic reaction to income sharing agreements when they were first talked about they called them indentured servitude and modern compared to slavery and it was like oh my god oh so insulting to but it's no different than signing a contract

with an agent to represent you when you first start out in any industry music or or sports or uh film or whatever one you could sign an agency agreement where the agent is your rep for 10 20 years right i mean some of those agreements can have long tails on them and that's effectively the same you know look at what's happening look at look at uh we can talk about this in a second but like you know did you see what happened with chappelle the last couple of days where yeah let's go did you watch the video i loved it yeah the video was incredible video was incredible

so the the the quick story on this is chappelle basically did um he had a request he went to netflix and he said take down chappelle show netflix took it down and he did a little stand up it's on his instagram it's like 18 minutes it's it's fabulous as most chapelle stuff peaks peak chapelle and he basically told this story which essentially the punch line is like you know he signed a contract where he just got completely [ __ ] and he's like this is happening every single day in so many markets and so the idea that then you have actually a different market

which disrupts something by actually creating transparency and something reasonable is all of a sudden completely immoral makes no sense to me so there's abuses happening all the time that is but the the contract that chappelle signed was indentured servitude he doesn't even have the rights to his name he cannot they took his name and likeness right yeah this is a perfect tie back to the earlier statement about uh you know do you have the appropriate kind of um understanding of the risk you're taking or the benefit that you're getting

um i think kanye's been doing this whole thing about he doesn't own the masters to his music originally right at the moment that he signed that contract when he signed over all the masters you know the master recordings and all the future revenue rights to his music he was getting paid a ton of money in his mind at that time he said oh my gosh i'm getting whatever it was let's say it's five million dollars i'm getting five million dollars the most amount of money i've ever seen it is absolutely worth me giving over the masters of this music and the future royalty rights to

this music for 12 songs or whatever it is for me to get five million dollars today and i can live an amazing life and it will change everything for me who is to say that he was not um you know of the appropriate sound mind and understanding to decide in that moment to take that five million dollars and give up all future royalties to his music well chappelle's chappelle's argument was the people who are in that ecosystem are all friends they're all working together and they've commoditized the artist and they collude to do this kind of uh and decide limiting

deals and i think what makes silicon valley so special is that we collude the other direction we want people to have equity participation and we want the social contract of silicon valley is i'm giving you equity i hope your your penny stock becomes worth fifteen hundred dollars and that you create multi-generational wealth and you become an angel but i don't know look if i if i'm an angel investor or want to be an angel investor and some schmo tricks me into investing in his shitty company and i just lose twenty thousand dollars but i didn't know how to determine whether that

company was shitty or not because i've never done investing before my book is it for the government to regulate that circumstance and say you know what you need to be a quote-unquote qualified investor to be able to discern a good company for a bad company or [ __ ] from not and it's going to mean for these contracts right like i mean so you know we're making the argument i think for the the you know the regulatory framework for preventing people from being able to have freedom of choice and i think like earlier you know that the case was made like people should be able to make

have freedom of choice at any point why should the government kind of step in and make a decision for me i think that they're i'm not i'm not advocating advocating for government intervention my only point is that there are morally reprehensible things that are happening today using contracts and that you know something like an income sharing agreement actually rights the ship in so many ways that's definitely the burden of capitalism ultimately you know it devolves to that right where like oh you're sick you have cancer pay me a million dollars i'll give you this drug

so hollywood's a little bit of its own beast where there's all these gatekeepers and the gatekeepers are always trying to get control over you know the creative product and so yeah like you know signing contracts with those sharks is always a dangerous thing to do um i think silicon valley is very different we have much more of a culture of of equity i think the income sharing agreements are much more in that vein and i think they're a great idea for like any trade that demonstrably increases your earning power right so the beauty of

lambda school is they pay for you to get an education being a coder it then increases your salary and they get a piece of that that's like a win-win for everybody i think where this goes if these isas are successful is that every trade that's valuable will get its own isa type school and then that gets peeled out of a university education so what's left for colleges to do it's basically you know all the stuff that doesn't add value they're museums they're basically like these monasteries again right they go back to being monasteries not places where you get skills

we need to set we need to celebrate vocational capability because i think like you know we have we have so celebrated this mythical bachelor's degree and it just means [ __ ] nothing it's like it doesn't learn a trade and that's just as frankly that should be as respected or more but in the american culture you don't do that right now i've never understood that if you go for example to different countries around the world europe's a good example actually of this because it's the closest analog in terms of quality of living to america there's a real

celebration of uh people who choose vocational traitcraft because there's an entire educational infrastructure that you can onboard yourself into you can become a skilled person and you can have a really good decent life and there's pride in the work and there's pride in that work and in america you know you covet this piece of paper the piece of paper is really just a scam that allows you know administrators to basically pay themselves millions of dollars and or run an asset management business as a the trojan horse of that purpose um it just doesn't make any sense and so

you know i don't know it's i just think it's i just think the most amazing thing about these companies i've i've been digging into them because i'm looking for more to invest in and um these companies these uh companies that are the trade schools that are basing themselves on isis and there are ones who are doing welding and plumbing and all kinds of different things and there are isa platforms that are providing isis to any school that wants them and doing like the sort of aws of isis anyway these um for what this firm told me was inside of one of these trade schools

they spend 50 percent of their time on placement 50 on education and that out of college they spend 99.x amount of time on uh the education and less than one percent on placement which kind of attracts right i mean when we went to college i don't know if it's changed much but the career services center was like this two-person office like in the worst part of campus and they don't when you're doing an isa if you accept more people who are unqualified and can't aren't ready for the education are not motivated for it it works against you because they're not

going to pay back the isa so you then get sharper you know you sharpen the blade of who gets accepted you start accepting the right people these colleges they would accept anybody who would come in and take the loans that was your qualifier is did you pass your loan the isa as a service idea is a brilliant idea i would invest in that i like that idea as an investment way better than running one of these uh schools you know that that's basically issuing the isis themselves but how amazing is that that we live in a country where people are willing to you know as a movement

now people are willing to fund your education because they know it's going to increase your earning power and then they'll get paid on the back end that's like fantastic and like that's all like happening all that innovation is happening right now without the government needing to get involved or a big government loan program and the historic people getting saddled people calling it inventory literally like the voxes and the new york times of the world and uh is having a 250 000 debt that you've got to pay down and you can never get rid of in bankruptcy for the rest of your life

yeah that's real indentured service i think the problem is that you know east coast left-leaning um editorial publications um they have to themselves justify their 190 000 um bachelor philosophy from oberlin college so you know if you if you take that you know oberlin is the number one listener base we have on this podcast yeah you just lost yeah but you're right once you've taken out every valuable trade and and move them from a university where you've got to pay a hundred thousand a year to a an isa where it costs you nothing like what's left it's just gonna be people studying philosophy oh yeah people intersectionality

intersectionality standards they'll be studying the past they'll be studying the past yeah what a disaster to collapse upon itself all right as we wrap up here um let's just take a moment to think about what some people are calling the big reset um it's thanksgiving uh we have a change in management in the country which is is obviously polarizing so i'll put that aside but i think what's happened with these vaccines in science is truly miraculous and let's face it a lot of people is a lot of pain and suffering this year a lot of people lost

their jobs a lot of people lost their restaurants a lot of people are suffering from mental illness some people are having to take care of their kids and get to know them i mean it's been hard for a lot of people sorry about that sex i wasn't trying david do you know your children's names now yeah i do now what's it like to spend three hours with one of your children he's got flash cards in front of him right now there's pictures on the back the names on the other side so anyway i was trying to be sincere the kids would even occasionally run into my office during

coved you know yeah they want to talk to you and hug you and show affection crazy they're like excuse me sir who are you i'm your father actually i am i thought i was just working for my office and all these kids show up and tell me it's their home so well we i just wanted to announce to the all-in uh audience that we have upgraded friedberg and sax's chips just last week uh chamath and i pushed the update for the joy 1.7 update and uh how's it been going to the two davids now that you have a third emotion we now have emotion of joy do not use it it feels good and warm inside body

do not use it all in same day spread it out over a month hey david did you think that trump uh actually resigned two days ago was that was that was that the equivalent of a like or the concession tweet it was acceptance of um you're talking about when they he authorized the gsa to release transition funds to biden yeah i mean that that that that was his concession right there um that that's that's basically what you're gonna get out of him that's his acceptance of the of the election result so after anger he's now went into bargaining uh and then he was depressed and

now he's accepting well what basically happened is you you know you had rudy and sydney powell and you know that legal team going to court to try and challenge all these rules the wack pack yeah try to go to court to challenge all these rulings i think rudy was like one in 35 meaning i think he won one ruling and lost 35 so it was going very very poorly so like you versus alan keating go ahead yeah but yeah that's a whole separate story we'll get into but uh but the thing that really like ended it was when sydney powell came out with this elaborate conspiracy theory that actually

trump lost the election because um communist code writers had effectively you know infected this the software that was running the election and somehow hugo chavez was behind this even though he's been dead for seven years hugo the republican governor of georgia and secretary of state were in on it anyway it was so wild and crazy that basically the narrative just cracked and so then you had like steve schwartzman come out and then sort of the republican business community and and pat toomey you know republican senator from pennsylvania came out and they all just said look this is this is

ridiculous and so that that was the moment i think at which th this narrative that the election was stolen kind of cracked is and i think she kind of she did everyone a favor by being so like off the reservation that it just brought the whole thing to like a meltdown sydney powell always whenever i see her i always i i just think that she's one second away from her dentures flying out of her mouth and hitting the camera i mean that's your crazy aunt that's the crazy aunt of thanksgiving like she said she was gonna release the kraken and i guess she meant the i think she might smoke

i think it was the hair dye running down rudy's face yes exactly that's the crack rudy's the kraken i mean i'm glad that it was a total meltdown it was a total [ __ ] show i'm glad the gop finally after trump's defeat decided with 55 days left to go that they would take a stand against well let me let me tell you why let me tell you what i think is going to happen now is i think that this new york times article we talked about the top of the show about the fact this operation warp speed that it was a big success i think that the best narrative

for trump if he wants to maintain this idea that he was robbed is not that he was sort of legally robbed with fake votes or fake voting software but rather just that if these pharma companies have put out the news a week earlier yes it would have meaningfully changed like and i think he has an amazing story there i would agree it's kind of yeah and it's kind of like you know um when you have like a major sporting event there's like a bad call by the refs and all the fans basically said oh we were robbed well you can't get that like result overturned it

is what it is you lost but you have a talking point forever that you lost i mean if you go to saint louis or whatever and you mentioned there's an asterisk yeah there's an asterisk yeah yeah when the national lebron association suspended draymond in that series there are all these sporting events with asterisks by them i mean like you know if you go to st louis and mention the name don denkinger you know people will know what you're talking about the i think the car he was he the saint louis cardinals lost the 85 world series because of a first base umpire's call or at least

that's their view of it right and so i think you know what what trump can do is is say that look we were robbed because we never got credit for the vaccine now if i i do think the economy is going to bounce back really strong next year because of the vaccines right i think you got to say that if these vaccines end covert in the next three four five months 2021's gonna be a great year so if trump hands biden these vaccines and the economy does well next year but something bad happens between now and four years from now he'll say i handed this guy everything on a solar platter

he screwed it up and that'll be his narrative for four years from now good could happen i'm just saying what do you what do you think about um what do you guys think about the pick so far janet yellen for treasury secretary is great thank god elizabeth i do think the biggest challenge we're gonna face is um is this monetary policy issue i mean the dollar is is you know in decline we printed 30 of the us dollars in circulation in the last six months and everyone's cheering that the dow is at 30 000. it's like well you know there's 30 more dollars so everything's gonna inflate so i think there's a lot of work to do it's

great to have someone sitting in that seat who understands economic policy really clearly and and the title monetary policy uh yeah i think the picks so far have been have been really um really top-notch tony blinken friend of a couple of hours for secretary of state he's a star um yellen's a dove which i think is really good for just you know did you guys know the chief of staff sacks do you know who this guy he's been like biden's aid for a long time kind of is that the deal he was the founder of revolution with steve case yeah yeah he comes from a venture background

all of biden's picks have been people who've been long-time washington hands who he's had personal relationships with for a long time he really seems to value that personal loyalty and they've also been kind of you know nice and boring safe experience i think he's delivering on kind of what he promised to be which is a present we can forget about yeah just tone it down that's gonna be a caretaker president yeah what do we do without trump to talk about on this podcast because it's been about 34 we're going to need a new topic to rotate in here we might need to put in little netflix um as we wrap here

um what are you thankful for and what are you most looking forward to next year um vis-a-vis just it's been a rough year um i mean listen it's been nice for people's equity portfolios of course um but it's really what do you hope for america for humanity for yourselves your family for your friends you know what are you thankful for um and uh i'll let you freedberg it looks like your processing unit has delivered a result so let's hear it the emotion bank has been cleared uh it i look i don't think that this year was any uh any cup of tea for anyone so i think like everyone you kind of value your friendships and your family

so it's uh it's been uh it's been a year you know going into covid i was in the office every day spending more time at home being closer to my children i know their names by the way sex i'll teach you how to learn them they're it's been it's been actually really special being at home a lot and being with the family a lot and realizing like how much that stuff matters and how being close to everyone matters because when you're in the run of the life before you kind of get knocked back and just put everything in perspective you miss those moments so that's been really special

and important to me this year in a really kind of personal way and just having friendships right i mean it's great for us to all be able to to talk as we do every day and have people you can kind of connect with even if you're not sitting in person i do think that everyone realizes they need that so anyway it's been a it's been an insightful year money aside it's yeah i was [ __ ] terrorized at the start of this year about money and the end of the year here you go finally there it is it's all a [ __ ] roller coaster sold the first company and now you got the second ipo congratulations mazel

sacks has your processing unit overloaded with this question or are you going to be able to articulate something thankful for and appreciate it i i i agree with with all the things that freeburg said um you know the flip side of working from home all this time is you do get to spend a lot more time with the kids um i personally have i like this shift to remote work where i can do a meeting from anywhere you know you don't have to go to the office that's been kind of kind of nice upside i think i think we've probably all learned how self-sufficient

we can be i have learned how to give myself a haircut apparently you guys don't think i've done a very good job with it but um well it's better than you have long hair yeah so yeah but look i mean i'm thankful for um you know knock on wood we all have our health and um you know and uh it weirdly the the economy silicon valley is doing still doing great technology is doing great still the future and i think the country is even though covet is kind of at its worst right now i do think it's going to get rapidly better as soon as these vaccines

come to market so i do think we'll we'll work i do think 2021 will be a much much better year chemoth um in this really crazy way i actually now am pretty thankful um for what i've learned during the pandemic i mean i wish we didn't have to go through it but um i think that it was the most psychologically stressful period of my life um just to be so isolated from everybody um and i learned something about myself recently which is that uh in psychology it's called repetitive com compulsion which is sort of like you know you repeat the sins of your father or in this way you know i repeat these tired ways of behavior from my

teens and my 20s that were just unproductive and in the day-to-day life of just running around and going to meetings as david said like flying around go to a meeting go to the office go here go there you can make a lot of excuses for shitty behaviors that you carry with you um and so what i'm really thankful for is in this lockdown i've been forced to really find the things that that i don't really like about myself and try to fix them um so you know uh i'm i'm really thankful for that because i think uh hopefully everybody has something positive to look at at the end of this and that's

definitely one thing for me it's very touching and actually quite appropriate as we wrap here because sax and free broke and i had some things we don't like about you chamath that we wanted to bring up you kind of knocked one off the list already so we got four more to go it's good you're doing this work we were planning an intervention for this end of the pod but you got to open the door so here we go you know i'll wrap up was just saying you know family and friends are the obvious you know things that you appreciate at this time i i am thankful also for the hope

uh that we've seen from uh you know what we can do collectively as a society when we put our minds to something warp speed comes to mind uh these frontline workers i mean we we really maybe have seen what a global uh rec a challenging problem being solved can do and hopefully that can translate into something like nuclear disarmament a sustainable energy global warming et cetera and so i think on a on a macro level the most macro levels the species us humans as a species have now had an enlightening moment just like world wars uh and you know hiroshima and nagasaki kind of

changed people's perspective the entire world jade and i were talking about that the other day how the people looked at the world differently after those uh horrific bombs went off i i think after this bomb goes off we're gonna look at the world and say hey we can solve problems right and maybe we can be proactive about that and then finally i think for the people suffering from mental illness uh who maybe i was callous and made fun of uh or maybe just didn't relate to i can relate to now because i've felt depressed i have felt anxious i have felt exhausted from this right and it's

the first time in the 49 years i've been on the planet that i ever would say i felt depressed i didn't understand what that meaning was when sax would tell me how depressed he was i just never never hit me i'm joking he never said that but uh it's a good joke i am joking but i i you know i think for people suffering from mental just get help and and you know talk to people and and i think this really opened my my eyes to that and of course this podcast uh you know and and our podcast was the best thing that that in one of the best things in my life that came out of

this whole period i think for me too um and you know i've heard that from a lot of the people who listened to it and i'm sure if sax and friedberg had a fourth emotion they would they would agree frankly i think this podcast has been doing nothing but costing me money you know because i painted you out to trump support god knows how many you are not a trump supporter yeah god knows how many deals i've lost because jason keeps trolling me as a trump supporter and then on top of it i get cut out of the only good bestie deal if you would i thought at least i would get this best seat deal and you guys cut me out of it uh okay listen i just want to be clear

sax is a conservative and a republican he is not a trump supporter he did not vote for trump this time he'd not vote for trump last time he does not support trump's behavior you can't out what he's voting dude sorry but he told me he didn't vote for him well he did it which one which one of us which one of us is going to try to hire jared kushner as a general partner uh no definitely not if you are saying most likely because now you're reinforcing the theme that's actually if you had to pick actually if you had to pick a venture fund that is most like the higher

uh as a gp andreas anything from are they still around founders fun no i don't think peter wants to share the spotlight uh okay um i go in jason don't do anything to get a press release i don't think that guy needs a fun to go work at true yeah he'll just go buy another no he did get three middle east peace deals done so but you know david by the by the way by the way i mean talk talking about inheriting incredible dividends but is it the most incredible thing that um you can come in and get middle east peace done but if you really unpack middle east peace do you think that middle east peace would have happened

if the cost of solar was not cheaper than the cost of oil honestly be like if if if you if you didn't see an end in sight to oil do you think that the middle east peace i don't think so well i i know what you're saying which is that if the middle east wasn't becoming less strategically relevant to us you know that that creates degrees of freedom i think but um yeah that's had profound benefits for silicon valley too right like i mean all of a sudden that went into the vision fund and the the money from qatar and the money from like all these sovereign

wealth funds in the middle east has funded a lot of venture funds has gone into direct late stage rounds in a lot of companies and it's really been a great boom for silicon valley people can make fun of the companies getting overfunded and the nonsense that's gone on all they want but like money right it filters out into more angel investing it filters out into more venture lps and it ultimately gives the motivation this ecosystem so i i i think that the damage to oil has been great for silicon valley the most incredible dividend of climate change is peace

it's like it's a it it has made radical islam a failed startup you know a hyped series a that couldn't raise its series b it's made you know sworn enemies over thousands of years cooperate together all for what reason because you got to pull the oil out of the ground now and monetize it because otherwise the cost of wind and you have to divert solar yeah and you have to diversify because otherwise the cost of wind and the cost of solar is going to make pulling the oil out of the ground economically and feasible within three or four years yeah already can't do it all right

they took saudi aramco public they started selling off their shares and they invested that capital in tech and other stuff around the world and that's it's been helpful but there is there is a another factor at work which is the fear of iran is now greater than on the part of saudi arabia and israel that their fear of iran is is now greater than whatever mutual hostility they used to have and so it's it's kind of bringing people together that way but you got to give kushner credit for still getting those deals done you know no one thought he could do it i remember everyone was blocking him i agree he's not he's not a [ __ ] and he's

not um he's the opposite of an abrasive guy and he's very thoughtful and apparently very uh i don't know if you guys know him personally but he's supposed to be very smart and um i'm sure that wherever he ends up next he's going to do very well and he's going to get invited to be in a lot of places yeah no it's clear he did a very good job on the middle east stuff yeah by the way how crazy is it that trump delivers on hottest economy ever peace in the middle east and three vaccines for coronavirus and he's still lost who would you well it does go to

tell you what what people think of character yeah character if you watch how he tweets but he tweeted himself out of his if he acted normal sacks he could actually take those victories if he stopped the personal attacks if he stopped the grifting he would have won he could he could have been he actually it would have been more than one if he could have been raymond if he could he could exactly what i was thinking if he came in in 2016 calm cool and collected with the team where there was dial down the insecurity and dial up sort of the intensity of actually calling people out for

not passing progressive change he would have been elected in a landslide people would have said well on the way in we were afraid but after four years the guy could have been magnanimous is what you're saying yeah and uh it was a real missed opportunity for him i still think much of trump is he's a wwe superstar and that's what people voted for it's why jesse ventura got elected governor of minnesota that's why arnold schwarzenegger got elected governor of california the average you know person that's looking at that guy versus you know the old dude that doesn't talk

and you know saying some weird stuff about policy it's like oh man that guy looks awesome let's put him in office like this is going to be [ __ ] fun and if he turned it down when he got in office he'd be much less appealing i think to a lot of people i think well then my caricature of himself that makes him so so appealing then i'd like to go i'd like to go on the record with my 15-year projection then or uh which is that the rock is gonna run for president uh i i think you know the iran situation just to put that in perspective david if you look

at the age distribution on the chart i just put in the chat it is just extraordinary how young that country is the median age is i think 20 or 29 years old and the they're barely holding on to power there and it is going to flip into a much more progressive society um than it is now they are barely holding on when you look at how many 25 year olds and 30 year olds there are in that country who are drinking and watching tv and they have the internet and they're watching porn and they're gambling i'm sure and buying bitcoin and doing all this crazy stuff that country's barely holding on it's going to be a crazy civil war and let's just hope they don't have nuclear bombs when

that civil war yeah guys guys guys like being being like extremist it's just like it's just a bad product market fit now you know it's just like not worth it there's there's no money to fund it nobody cares that much anymore everybody's moving low nps score yeah would you recommend extremism to a friend or family member too all right uh this has been another all-in podcast for bestie c the rain man david sacks and the queen of quinoa on his coming out party today ipo coming up for metro mile congratulations to friedberg congratulations to chamoth on the pipe

sax and i we're gonna have to figure out a way to lick our wounds and wet our beaks let's put our thinking caps on and over the break find a deal we can exclude these two from we gotta we gotta get in early get thirty percent of a company and then we gotta have chamoth spack it and freeburg do the late stage deal with all this metro mile money yeah and we'll see you all next time on the all-in podcast that was [ __ ] great best one yet yeah you guys want to see something funny you guys see that video my wife just sent me that's my uh dog taking a [ __ ] on your driveway sex wait i don't see it oh man where is it i want to see that deuce

can you take a [ __ ] on his model x oh my god and we'd all have code 13. oh no everybody we rolled over the credits