Senator Kyrsten Sinema | All-In Summit 2024

this is very good news for Cinema what just happened in the last couple minutes kirston Cinema has been declared the winner this is the first time that a Democrat will have won a senate seat in Arizona since 1976 the first woman ever to serve as senator in Arizona so it's a very big deal censured by the Arizona Democratic party Kiren Cinema announcing she's leaving the Democratic party she's going to be leaving the Senate if you ever meet someone with whom you agree 100% either they're a liar or you're not thinking for yourself ladies and Gentlemen please welcome Senator Cinema thanks for coming absolutely thank you for being here how are you hey good to see

you all right well I think you uh heard JD I listen to some of it you listen to some of it you caught some yeah I listen to the whole thing what's your take on JD and um you know if he were to be called called on to be president which is the the nature of that job uh God forbid for whatever reason um how do you think he would do as president well first let me say JD and I have been friends for quite some time you know we sered together in the Senate we have a great relationship we don't agree on everything um what I really appreciate about JD is that it doesn't bother him that we don't agree on everything right I know that sounds strange but not here right I mean yeah obviously you guys um

there's this this thing that I think is kind of disturbing that's happened in American politics and it's this idea that you either have to agree with someone 100% of the time or they are your mortal enemy and must be destroyed right and the two parties actually talk about each other in this like existential threat way right like the only way the country will be safe is if we completely eliminate the existence of the other party but if you think about that that's actually incredibly dangerous right yeah it's incredibly dangerous to have one party yes it's called China and Russia exactly that's exactly right so what we really want in

this country I what I really want is a robust Marketplace of ideas and not only the idea that you can tolerate that someone else has an idea different than your own but that you can welcome the idea that someone has a different idea than your own because you might I know this sounds crazy learn from that other idea and over time change or grow your opinion it's an opportunity and so that's one of my favorite things about JD is that he and I have areas where we share opinion very closely and we have areas where we don't share the same opinion and it's not a problem at all like we're both comfortable with the idea of difference of opinion I think that's core to the idea of who you want

in a leader why has that happened so why why have we found ourselves in a place where we are intolerant of the other party's ideas and we are intolerant of members of the other party well what's D what's Driven this change the I will say that the term we doesn't apply to me obviously um like because when people told me to do that I was like yeah no I'm not going to do that at all and um they were like you're excused and right so and for those who don't know your background you left the Democratic party that's right and as a as a as a sitting Senator yes right yes that's right um because I think you should have your own

opinion I'm pretty straightforward yeah and so how does that how does that phone call go do you call Chuck and say I have something to tell you or or actually more importantly joking aside how did that Evolution happen for you so you started out you're in Arizona you start out as a clear Democrat that wins you the actually so turn back time um great song um when I first ran for office very young like in my 20s I ran as an independent and I came in dead last yeah um and then I re-registered as a Democrat ran for the same office came in first and then you fast forward changed

nothing meaning in terms of what you said my hair changes all the time but apart from that nothing changed right so uh re-registered as a Democrat came in first served in the state house for seven for six years served in the state senate for a term ran for the US Congress won a competitive District slightly more Republican than Democrat I won I served in that seat for six years ran for the Senate became the first woman ever to win a senate race in Arizona um more importantly I was the first member of of at the time the Democratic party in over 30 years to win a senate SE in Arizona um but I was never a traditional Democrat and those who've

known me for a long time have always known that that I just am not interested in fitting into a box and never have been and so I've always been me um there came a point where me being me no longer fit within the Democratic party and they were really uncomfortable having me in the party and so I made it easier for them by leaving and it made everyone happier um I was a lot happier cuz I was being more genuine um but what what dides that mean just double click into you being you what is that that was that made them so uncomfortable well I'll give you an example my my first vote in the United States Senate was a vote on the issue of Israel and I got a call

from at the time minority leader Chuck Schumer and he asked me to vote no on on the measure and I said well there's zero chance I'm voting no on this measure this is a this is a vote to stand with Israel like the I vote no is a hard zero he was like ah this is partisan and we got to be a unity and and I don't like I'm not going to share the details of that conversation but it was a it was a partisan conversation and for me I was like this I'm I'm confused about the nature of this conversation because the idea that I'm going to change my vote because someone else wants me to is never going to happen right the only thing that would cause me to change my

vote is to get new information that changes the calculus for my decision right cuz that's a sign of growth and learning is if you get new information right there was no new information it was just a party vote and I said yeah well I don't need to go to the party like I'm going to vote the way that I believe and um for me that didn't seem like a particularly important moment it's just how I am but it that that was problematic for other people is there a lot of pressure in the way that politics happens on the ground which is a lot of you in the Senate may come to a conclusion or an opinion but before that vote is cast there's just on both sides

tremendous pressure to reassign whatever you underwrote it almost hey it doesn't matter now we got to tow the party line is there a lot of that yeah I mean the the biggest example of that would be what I think is the most important vote I've ever taken in my entire life and that was the vote to protect the filibuster the the pressure around that vote was severe me want to explain that to folks just uh yeah so the filibuster is a provision in the United States Senate it's a rule it's not constitutional but it's a rule that requires that any major piece of legislation any policy related legislation requires the approval of 60

Senators rather than 51 right so a super majority in order to move forward to debate discuss and pass the piece of legislation now there are some people who hate the filibuster because they like to have all the power when they have the power and I think it's very dangerous to eliminate the filibuster the filibuster is like a control mechanism that keeps the Senate from ricocheting back and forth between the wild edges of the political pressure from either party now some people will say well the the filibusters knew it wasn't always around well that's true because when the Senate was founded it took a hundred Senators to move forward on a piece of legislation right a 100

and it's eroded down to 60 I believe it would be very dangerous to eliminate that and allow it to be a simple majority the Senate would become the house and for God's sake I served there for six years there's a reason I went to the Senate right the idea is that the Senate is a place that represents all of the views of the country including areas that are rural or small or have been left behind minority opinions must be protected and celebrated in the United States Senate but there was intense pressure intense pressure to eliminate the filibuster now the thing that's interesting is that pressure had zero impact on me yeah like zero none and

people thought it was going to they were like oh we're going to get her we're going to get her and I just was like sure I'll go to Every meeting you'd like and I'll I went to every single meeting I listened to everyone no one ever gave me any information that led me to think it would be a good idea to get rid of the last vestage of bipartisanship in the United States Senate is there a knowing what you know now um is there a path out of this I mean and how much more toxic has it gotten over the years yeah and why and why we didn't get to the why like what's what's Driven the extreme partisanship the the the inability to have dialogue the the lack

of the idea cauldron like what's well it has gotten a lot worse I mean I've been doing this for 20 years and obviously started in elementary school but um I've been doing it for a long time and it has gotten it has gotten much more severe much more partisan uh you know there are a number of factors for that um but I think a large part of it is that we as Americans we all of us are choosing people who agree with 100% of the time because it feels good even if those individuals don't get done like they don't return any results but they will make a Tik Tok telling you how your view is so right and and and it's now become out of favor to support

someone with whom you agree with only 60% of the time when the reality is is that if you find someone with whom you agree with only 60% of the time they're thinking for themselves and so are you but if you find someone with whom you agree with 100% of the time either they're lying to you or you're not thinking for yourself and those are two very dangerous things both very dangerous so it has gotten more and more extreme because our political system rewards those who say the things that are not true in order to get the Applause and the likes and the support money Etc and punish those who say the things that are true but are not everything you want you know does that

mean that democracy eventually dies no I don't think so our country's been through much worse I mean we had a civil war it it I do think it gets worse for a while before it gets better you know and to Jason's question how does it get better well I think it gets really bad um and then when it gets pretty bad people are like oh we got to do something like this is our only country and then you know it kind of comes back is that this moment now yeah no I don't think we're there yet uh what what what play out the scenarios here commo wins Trump wins we spend another 8 trillion in debt and we and how many more cyes cares about debt neither party cares

aboutt let's be honest on both sides yeah but which means it's going to happen so we're sitting here maybe two more Cycles from now and we've put another 15 trillion down you know on this and then when does it break what is the what is the um um impetus to make that change when does it break down when do we hit rock bottom sure I know the answer to that and anyone who tells you they do is probably lying because what are the possibilities that you see from inside the machine of this really breaking yeah there are some challenges head right I mean uh Congress spends like a drunken sailor with no thought for the future we are running to the

tape on ISS on on being able to fund things like Social Security and Medicare and Congress is doing nothing to solve it right there's actually a little Coalition of us who are trying to solve those problems um Cassidy Senator Cassidy Senator King myself and when we went to go talk to our colleagues on both sides of the aisle they were like no let's wait till after the election yeah that's totally going to make it better right like things are going to be totally good after the election like they're just putting off that which is uncomfortable because the solution to those fiscal problems require sacrifice in the short term and elected officials are not willing to sacrifice anything in

the short term because it means that they may not get re-elected and if their number one goal is to survive then they're not going to make the hard decisions can we talk about that for a second can you just explain to us the underbelly of Politics the money in politics the people that you have to um time with how the money Cycle Works how did you feel that pressure if it all even if I'm not saying you responded to it but maybe just to explain to it well it does take millions and millions and millions of dollars to run for office I mean a senate seat in Arizona is like what $150 million um so so you you do need a lot of help sorry to win this to win a senate seat it's 150 million bucks

in Arizona not yeah in Arizona but there are some states in which it probably cost you know way less because it's not competitive but in a competitive State you know it's going to be very very expensive but you know I look there is always pressure to raise the money but you can go about it however you want to go about it most people go about it the easy way which is to just kind of Follow The Line that the party has given and then the machine lines it up to give you the money if you choose not to follow the line then which is the path that I took then you have to find folks who are also

unusual and don't fit easily into a party line that's support that's a very important thing you're saying so essentially is if you inform which means that in those times where you get the phone call you have to basically tow the line otherwise the money spigot stops is that right or no is that is it not that drastic I mean it was that drastic for me after the filibuster vote everyone was like we hate you clunk um and I was like right but I am protecting democracy so call me back later click um they had not called back um that day is coming guys um so the way

you're framing it though I think is maybe not exactly correct because what you're saying is you have to do the party line thing in order to stay in the thing that that I think it's important to remember is most people want to do the party line thing right it's not like they're sitting around going like oh I really don't want to vote this way but I really feel like I have to to save my career there's this thing about being part of the club people want to be part of the club and so it's not like the thumb is you know being pushed down on lots of people to get them to do a certain thing they're doing it because they're part of the club does that make sense right it it makes sense I don't

understand that me either obviously but I get it so first of all I want to say that I wholeheartedly agree with you about the need to have a free Marketplace of ideas where people can debate these issues without any fear of reprisal and um I think it's sentiments like that that made me support you as when you know you were a senator and a Democrat people may be surprised to find out that actually we we co-hosted an event with you a few years ago uh cuz I look for opportunities to support Democrats when I can when they're independent minded so I DAV always appreciate that about you so um for that yeah that's exactly weast um I want to go back to the first year

of the the Biden Administration 2021 and I don't know if people remember but that whole year uh domestic politics was royed by a piece of legislation called build back better this is a $4.5 trillion spending package that actually originally was six remember a six trilon like that's like Bonkers they yeah they brought it down six and uh whatever whatever yeah and um you know it it eventually failed because every Republican voted against it uh and two Democrats you and Senator Mansion voted against it as I recall the the thing that always seemed really crazy to me is you know beyond

just the sheer amount of this spending package which now everyone looks at the deficit in the debt and they're like you know it's already crazy enough as it is without that having passed imagine if it did pass yeah um and our economy can you imagine yeah it would it would have been a total disaster I think um and but the the the amazing thing to me was that we had this year-long debate in Washington and they never just came to you and Mansion at the beginning of the process and just said what are you guys willing to do because you were the swing votes right right and instead they spent a year like pushing for this thing and

then I guess they expected to kind of jam it through at the end put enough pressure on you to vote for this I actually had this discussion with um Schumer and the White House in the summer of 21 so um I'm sure all of you remember all this you know because this is what you do in your lives is think about the work that I'm doing in the United States Senate but um in February of 2021 after we passed um that a big Co package which you know we passed a pretty sizable Co package I was worried that it wasn't paid for I was worried about the impact this would have on the economy turns out all that was right um I went to Schumer right the day after

that and said look I know that you want to do infrastructure next and I want to do infrastructure because infrastructure is really important for the future of economic growth and competitiv in our country but I want to do it in a bipartisan way because this is that that's what we should be doing in the Senate and he said something to me along the lines of we'd love to have the Republicans with us if they'd like to come that'd be great and was like well see my idea of Byers ship is a little bit different it's more about the sit down and work together and create something together and then have a product that you put up together rather than just building it and asking someone

to come and jump on your train and so um you know people just kind of Pat patted me on the head and I went out and started working with Rob Portman who has since retired but let me tell you what super smart very nerdy great with a spreadsheet right like I was like that's my guy right there and so Rob and I began working quietly Just the Two of Us um doing nuts and bolts of like how to build an infrastructure plan after we gained some steam we began inviting others so it ended up that we had a really carefully curated group of five Dems and five Republicans all moderates and conservatives working on infrastructure and we began we we got to

a place where our infrastructure bill was going to go you all may recall we actually we actually got it done um and it was paid for but while we were almost at the point of voting on the infrastructure pack package that's when the White House unveiled build back better and I actually put out a public statement which is very rare for me saying there's no way I'm going to vote for that package because it cost eight bazillion dollars and it was irresponsible and oh they were so pissed off they're like why did you say that I'm like well I think it's important for everyone to know that there's zero chance I vote for that and I want to say it now so I don't get jammed later right

CU I would rather disappoint people today rather than disappoint them the day of the vote I want them to know I will never vote for this and the pressure just grew from there didn't work obviously um because there was zero chance in which I was going to vote for $4 half trillion dollars of new taxes many of which are being debated right now in the presidential campaign and which are Bonkers um and so I I just I said no I said no early on so I did start engaging with the white house after that and they said well what would you vote for and I said here and I created a spreadsheet and I said here are all the tax policies that you're

interested in here are the ones that I'm willing to consider it was a small list and they just didn't believe me for a long time it took a year took about 14 months 14 months later they believe me when I said here are the policies I will support here are the ones I will not support but it took 14 months before people believed that I meant what I said about tax policy we um when JD was up here um and thank you for that work by the way and that uh Independence um It just strikes me before you move on Jason that we could have voided so much ranker over the first one to two years of the Biden Administration if they just listened to you because you were trying

to find what I said you were trying to find you know it was a very it was close to a 50/50 senate or I guess it was a 50 it was 5050 5050 it was 50/50 right so it's not like President Biden had an LBJ like mandate to push through massive new spent tax times and uh so in any event I just it's always seemed crazy to me that they didn't listen to you and they didn't try and find that bipartisan compromise very early on we could have avoided you know so much of of this um you know the this again the ranker but here's the thing David um and then I want to get to your point but look both parties do this so I I don't want it I don't want to sound like I'm just you

know all over Biden and Schumer because look when Trump was president and he controlled all the chambers he he did the same thing so there's there are no there's no Purity here right when one party has total control they over use it that is what happens because when a party gets power they think they're going to have it forever they overreach and then the system corrects and so one might suggest just maybe suggest that a small amount of humility would help here to think that perhaps when you do have power you may not always have power and that it would be good and it would serve you well to always consider other people's positions minority positions

even if they are not the same as your own because there will come a time when those individuals have the power and that perhaps if you're interested in like having some stability and predictability in our country that finding that more moderate ground is always good regardless of which parties in power that's very unpopular what I just said um I'm curious um when we look at this two-party system if there is a way out of it and to maybe create a little bit more choice for um and a little bit more uh competition and and have a a viable third party actually you uh explained in the last panel how you know Kennedy to Trump and you know uh Cheney to uh kamla

it's very strange times we're living in and most of us don't feel that either party represents us fully sax doesn't believe with these neocons starting Wars everywhere Etc so is it possible for us to have a viable third party because you seem to be also partless and which I'm fine with party one is great guys I love it party one sit at the bar just perfect yes I love it it's great too um the nice thing about being a party of one is you get to have the entire platform to yourself like if people are like what's your party platform well I made it up because it's all my ideas it's wonderful um so you know there was an attempt this year

to try and create a third party option the group No Labels with whom I have a great relationship with and a lot of respect for um worked on it the it the time is not ripe for that that was obvious like why is this I'm not right I don't I don't know that I can answer that for you um my ass mment is that many people in America are so scared of what the other party represents and the potential overreach that comes from the other party's positions and the story that has been created that the existence of the other party is an existential threat to the future of our country like that's a story that both parties tell I I think because of that most Americans are they're dissatisfied with the

parties but they don't feel confident or comfortable enough to go somewhere else because they're not sure what it will bring and the fear of the other is at an all-time high I'm curious in this audience putting this election cycle aside how many people would like to see us have a third or fourth option a third or fourth party raise your hand okay that's like everybody in the audience like I don't un L parties one what's up a lot of parties have won yeah I mean I think more americ R got 19% it looked like uh Bobby Kennedy had at the peak what 15 20 yeah I mean it it does seem like and and people really wanted no labels to

put up Mansion maybe yourself or no no no I'm overqualified what would you would you what's next for you are you going to consider running or you want to be in the private sector you just want to excited about what's happening in the private sector right now I mean we've got Industries in this country that are really pushing the edge on what's going to ensure that we're globally competitive and Innovative for the future and I'm really excited about it and I I believe that regardless of what's happening in government because as I mentioned earlier I do think it's going to get worse gridlock going to get tougher and blah blah blah people are

not interested in solving problems they're disinterested and ticktock and so um there there's a real opportunity to move our country forward despite the gridlock in government through Private Industry and that's where I want to work why why are the Democrats so anti- capitalist I I don't understand because that's where the money comes from yeah I just don't understand spent of being so either yeah you know I am um I'm fairly libertarian I think you know just at my base most arizonans are um I I I I struggle with the idea of wanting to eliminate the Private Industry because that is where the ideas come from that's where the Innovation comes from and that's where the money

comes from to fund the social programs that are important to prot country was built on yeah this country had nothing 250 years ago and the ability to innovate the opportunity for entrepreneurs to build and for people to partake in that created productivity gains and ultimately prosperity for everyone and it makes no sense to stall it it just doesn't make any sense like I don't understand it do you um when you look at the Israel Palestine conflict has any of this was it is this expected the way that this there's this fissure that's built in America now the fissure that's been created in West growing um it's been growing you know I'm I'm quite close with the pro is community not just

in Arizona but nationally because Israel is our only Democratic partner in the Middle East and is one of the best Partners to the United States and has been since its Inception um but anti-Semitism has long been a part of our country's history and it has been growing the difference is is that it was kind of quie is you know it was happening on campuses with the anti-bds movement um it was growing um in a number of circles on both the far left and the far right um and and what we've seen you know in in the last year um is that it's now okay to say the quiet part out loud what what's boggling to my mind as and I don't talk about this very often because it makes me sound really

nerdy but I actually um I actually have studied genocide like I did a PhD on the Rwandan Genocide right which Super nerdy I know but the narrative that somehow Israel are the oppressors and Hamas are the liberators and then there are folks who are actually using the term genocide to talk about the Israeli government and the Israeli people is so insane like that's insane I mean talk about the worst form of gaslighting you can even imagine right like it's just insane and yet it's not a surprise because if you've been paying attention it's been percolating and

growing for years and folks in the pro-israel community know this and they've been talking about it it's just that no one was really listening because it was all whisper whisper whisper or just you know kids on campuses but now we see happening especially at these so-called Elite universities where not only has the pramas movement take over taken over but the faculty that the folks who were in responsible for the educational environment have shown an unwillingness to speak the truth right which I think is just disturbing is there a path to find a empathetic solution for the Palestinians while also at the same time eliminating Hamas and of getting past

this problem after the vast majority of Palestinian people are living in an environment in which they don't have control over their daily lives they don't get access to the food and the water they need they're being used as human Shields and political weapons and physical weapons by Hamas and so they are in just an horri horrible horrible situation and so the work that we've been trying to do to navigate how to get relief or evacuation for those individuals is really important and should not be eliminated or cut off but we also need to be much much more careful about who we're giving the money and the food and the supplies to because

we know that the majority of it is being siphoned off by Hamas and used as a weapon of War um is there a solution that can protect the innocent lives absolutely um is standing with Hamas that solution no that's like doing a rally for Isis like what the hell is like how did we not see this like we could have just gone to Harvard but how how are young people at Harvard and Colombia and Yale how come they can't they don't all of a sudden that distinction isn't obvious to them it is hard for me to understand this now I am lucky enough to live in Arizona and we just don't have this there's a very small amount of this very small on our

campuses but the vast majority of students in Arizona these are like regular kids these are not you know fancy kids these are regular kids they go to regular schools they live a regular life and they go to a regular state school and so they don't wake up in the morning and think I think I want to support those terrorists over there in the Middle East right like and so I think there's one of the problems that I see in Academia and full disclosure I I have been a professor at Arizona State University for 21 years so I I teach I'm te I teach this semester i' I've been teaching non-stop for 21 years um but I teach in

a climate where my students are expected to be triggered or whatever that word is I think that's a stupid word but the bottom line is this there's this whole thing moving across the country where we're like oh we can't have any triggering conversations we can't have conversations make you uncomfortable that is the whole purpose of college the whole idea of the university is to go learn about the universe you should be confronted with ideas that are different than your own you should interact with people who have views that are different than your own you should be open to learning and listening and changing and growing that is the reason that you go

to university right and that is being taken away Senator Cinema thank you for being with US senator Cinema [Applause]