All-In Summit: In conversation with Gwyneth Paltrow

our next guest needs no introduction she has an incredible uh career in film she's an entrepreneur she's a podcaster but interesting we learned about a year and a half ago that our friend Gwyneth Paltrow is also a fan of the all-in podcast [Music] [Music] are you trolling me with my glasses do you have your blue lights on I can't I honestly can't see without these things at this point it's unforgiving I'm just curious thanks for uh zooming in here um when did you become aware of the podcast because you said you'd listen to two podcasts you have your own amazing podcast how did you discover the all-in

podcast because you wrote about it so graciously in the group newsletter and said it's your latest Obsession then you shattered us out on another podcast so I get like a hundred we all get like 100 inbounds when you do that but how did you find out about our podcast I think he's recommended to be my friend um and I just you know there's some obviously the field is so crowded but I thought okay put it on and honestly I think you guys are the only thing I listen to religiously every single week but I love all of them would you open my mind and challenge my thinking um and actually learned so much from all of you so I I just I appreciate what you

guys do and I really feel very honored that you um you know my husband that we have a little bonus attention is he thinks I'm in a long time with David so he's letting him do this so it's but you're breaking up a little bit but I think I heard in there that she hates David she hates David sash is that correct that you just I I heard that I was in favor of bestie but um so you're traveling right now you don't have starlink on your plane I'm flying on American did not lend me his claim for this uh appearance we'll make sure regret we brought the summit to you this year but you couldn't make it in person I wanted to ask you of

all the things you've done uh you had this incredible uh career in Hollywood which really spanned from the independent film era all the way to the Blockbuster superhero era uh obviously uh goop and the tremendous success there and podcasting what have you enjoyed most and then I'm wondering I know you get haranged by all the Marvel fans to play Pepper Potts again but it's not exactly your decision um what have you enjoyed most in your career you know I have to say I genuinely and have enjoyed all of the chapters I've been incredibly fortunate in that I've had this amazingly diverse life I've been an expat in London for a decade a

and it's been it's been it's been really it's been just thrilling to be able to do that and then kind of segue into a life of Entrepreneurship and I don't I would be hard-pressed to pick a favorite yeah yeah how did you how did you make that decision Gwyneth we talked with Alexandra botez before this she's a uh you know gotten a lot of notoriety and built an audience streaming chess um chess matches and now she's building her own business and we're going to talk to Jimmy Donaldson Mr Beast here in a minute and he's similarly building his own business with his audience um how did you make the decision to build goop to build a business with your

audience instead of uh endorse other businesses and get paid to put your stamp on other products that were already in market and help us think about you know the the intention on being an entrepreneur and an owner instead of being you know an endorser and a service provider I mean I I think that in my position you know we're expected to kind of be an endorser and put our name on something more white label in my case maybe it was naivete like I just really wanted to try to build something Brick by Brick and have that incredible hockey stick and education and um and the business happened very iteratively it really just started with me kind of writing content

in my kitchen in London almost 15 years ago which is kind of hard to believe and the business models there have been a few of them they've slowly evolved over time you know we started monetizing content and then moved into product and then making our own product um and I think it's sort of what I didn't like so much about acting was the part where you're kind of waiting around waiting for permission to engage to create something to put something out in the world and this is far more immediate and um I I loved my acting career but I find this like incredibly fulfilling in a

much different way yeah maybe you could talk a little bit I know I listened to your pod and I've been watching your intellectual curiosity it seems like aging and kind of living our best lives in our 50s and Gen X is kind of moving into this new era I'm curious what you'd think about this having multiple careers and moving into this this new era of life um and living your best life in your 50s in your 60s people are staying healthier longer skiing into their 60s and 70s I want to bring up too much skiing I know that was a bit of a distraction this year for you congratulations on the case um yeah I mean the best part of it was when you walked out of the case and you

put your hand on your shoulder said I just wish you well or something you were very you were very kind and magnanimous but maybe talk about just how great it is to be able to just keep having this healthy lifestyle and you know what you're doing on the Pod because I'm watching you intellectually go from shorter to longer to longer and more in-depth conversations um yeah thanks Jacob um you know I that's your way of saying you're full of [Laughter] um you know I think what I watched over the span of this kind of 15 kind of General curiosity in wellness and this idea that we can impact the the way that we feel I think you know we were a little bit early on the early

side and the trends um and and I I really am so happy to see people understanding that how they think and how they breathe and what they eat really impacts how they feel the quality of their relationships and everything and and I think it's it only intensifies in your 50s I think when you start to understand that life really is finite and in a way that you don't you can't conceptualize that when you're 26 years old and so I'm glad that I um I feel bullish about aging you know I I definitely want to do whatever interventions I can to feel good and and happy and and live a long life I I love my kids so much I want to live a long time and meet their kids and

um and I think the Pod the goop pod is is just a way for me to learn more about kind of what's out there and we talk to amazing doctors and and experts and scientists and thinkers and and so for me it's just a wonderful opportunity to learn and that's why I said in the beginning I don't know if it cut out but that's why I I listened to your pod religiously every week it's the only one that I I listen to every week because of the depth of of knowledge and you guys I think are bringing this amazing kind of open-minded perspective um and that's why I think you're you're so resonant with your listeners do you

um you've probably read then you heard us talk a lot about Brian Armstrong's memo you probably heard us mention Toby ludke the CEO of Shopify his memo now both are sort of in one end of the Spectrum which is we're a team we're not a family keep your views to yourself essentially and you know we're coming here to work but there's a spectrum of different ways can you just describe where you are on that spectrum and some challenges or things that have you know you've had to go through in building this business relative to what how those guys would have run you know their companies

yeah I mean I think that's been kind of the the most unexpected challenge is is the people piece the team building piece that knowing how once you're at a certain scale you know and you're not a CEO interacting with every single member of the team every day how difficult it is to define a culture um be agile about the changes in the culture um and I think you know for us I think it's hard right like I'm I'm a woman founder our team is probably 70 women women you know are typically are we're collaborative we are creative um and I I think that it's very hard to you know for us anyway at group 10 it would be impossible for there to be this

kind of strict team uh mentality only I think we we do bring our hearts to what we do we there's there's meaning at what we're trying to create and um but but then again you know there are boundaries that need to be created and honestly I think when I look back at all the mistakes that I've made in in growing this company all of them stem from you know my wanting to be a family is that a different way my inability to sometimes say what needed to be said in order to spare somebody's feelings and so that that is there's a lot of personal work for me in

that in that Spectrum um and I think that I'm sort of starting to really get the hang of how to do that and do it in my own way but I kind of had to give myself permission to to navigate through it and sort of Define how I want to operate like that as a leader and and I suppose being a celebrity uh is is an adjustment for people working for you I'm curious how that transition was and and can people be normal around you at work the truth yeah I mean it just must be hard at first no I think it is hard you know I think um I think people come in and you know I've been in the culture for better or worse for a really long time now so I

think everybody kind of has something there coming in with um a Prejudice or a projection um and and I also just am you know famous so sometimes that's kind of it feels like a filter that lives between me and and other people I think the best people at goop you can feel like they drop that really quickly um and and we we work best and make the best stuff and and grow in the best way when people say no and people challenge me um is Hollywood challenged in being able to speak its mind Hollywood from the outside seems to have a very kind of monocultural point of view and you're very quickly canceled if you say the wrong thing or you say

something that's on your mind that doesn't fit with the standard and is that something that you view to be kind of an inherent challenge in Hollywood today you know I it's interesting like the I think cancel culture is really toxic and really stems from you know I mean I have a whole long theory about this but I I do feel like um I do feel like in our culture there's a very binary way we look at good and bad and I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves and we are not good at understanding that we are human we are all light and dark and at various times we have great qualities we have qualities we're working on

um and I think what happens is because we don't live in a culture where we're allowed to sort of show our shadow sides um when somebody else does something that you know we can quickly have Sean right over we sort of jump on it because it feels like a release you know it feels like a relief like oh well at least I didn't you know do X like this guy um and I don't think he gets his very far as the culture I think it's actually really reductive and um and I'm hoping that we're going to kind of mature out of this binary cancer culture way of of looking at things you know I personally don't think about it because I would never open my mouth like I I have to be

myself and and of course you want to be measured and you know you don't want to unnecessarily you know get yourself in trouble or say something stupid but at the same time I think it's important to be true to who you are be in Integrity say what you mean and and sometimes you know you see that that creates controversy but I don't think that that's always a bad thing what is the future of of Hollywood I feel like I was thinking about your career because I was reviewing all the amazing films you were in in the 90s and then obviously I mentioned you know um the last run of the superhero films it feels like you're part of the last generation of movie stars and Freeburg

and sax and I are huge Cinema Buffs and fans of what you do um maybe you could talk about I've I've watched her movies yeah he liked pop She Bop texted me like hey what should I watch tonight and I give him well no I tell you to watch something really great and you're like that was terrible and I'm like well okay it's got seven Oscar nominations anyway um terrible movie yes she wasn't in it if she was in it'd be better Carr was a great film it was incredible yeah did you see Tara Gwyneth so what's been what have we lost now with this kind of the end of Cinema it's kind of heartbreaking for me and I wonder if it's heartbreaking for you too

and maybe then you could speak on the strike and maybe how that might get resolved I know you're out of it pretty much but maybe you could talk a little bit about the end of yeah watch yourself what should the unions be fighting for I mean you're on the other side in a sense you're running a tech company you know you're probably figuring out how to use Ai and all of these disruptive tools your old compatriots must need a lot of help and guidance to not fight for the wrong things so yeah how do you think about the future of Hollywood like how would you direct them like hey guys this matters and this other stuff just doesn't matter yeah I mean it's I think we're at an

incredible inflection point and you know to to start with your question JJ Cal like the the inherent models of the business have changed so much as we know with streaming um I I do think that it brings up really interesting questions around like what does this mean for artists going forward um the business isn't monetized the way that it used to be residuals used to be a huge part of how artists made their living and I do think that this is an area where the studios kind of need to need to readdress how they have been paying in the back end um especially on TVD but we are living in a time where there are these emerging technologies that just are going to

change the way that things are made and so I think you know look I as you said I'm kind of out of it I I I don't um act very much anymore I am married to a television writer um who knows far more about the ins and outs of this um but I I do think you know there are I think artists do need to understand that you know it's like with anything when when an industry um led by you know first these technology right streaming and now ai and these things that are coming around the corner I think we all need to be we all need to be open-minded um and understand that like the the train has left the station these

Technologies exist so we're gonna have to find the best way forward through them what what what is your point of view what is the conversation behind closed doors on generative art generative film where we're headed not the public conversation but the behind doors dinner conversation with your colleagues and Friends I think people are really concerned you know my actor friends are very concerned about the idea that you know for example just use myself that they could decide you know to make the Royal Tenenbaums too and because I don't own my IP Disney owns that IP and my name and likeness for that film that they could just

theoretically create a sequel and not ask my permission um and that I wouldn't have to be paid for it so that that's kind of what the actors where they go like you know for example I invested in a company called speechify where they use AI um you can I don't know if you guys know I use it and you can read the New York Times you're one of the official voices on speechify in right so um you know I read a bunch of stuff into a microphone and then AI took my voice and now if you want to read uh then you know Walter isaacson's new book on Elon which I know David sacks is going to be the first person in line to buy that book

um you can you can listen to it with my voice so you know in that case I said I'm licensing it to you and here are the parameters but I think the idea is going forward if that that wasn't the case um it could be it could be a free-for-all that's that's kind of what that's what the actors are worried about I think you know I think the writers that I speak to um they seem to be less worried about the AI piece right now because it's so nascent and obviously it's mining things that have already been written and you know I think art that resonates with people comes from new ideas um and new ways of creating resonant

intersections for people and I think we're always going to need people for that I mean maybe I'm naive but that's so I don't think I don't find writers behind closed doors as concerned about the aips as I do the actors right now that makes sense we have a friend here who's a showrunner is a television writer he may be in the audience here somewhere I think that's his attitude as well which is like I don't really want to be on strike and I don't I don't need to be protected from AI that's kind of like protecting me from a word processor or something like that that I mean I think these AI tools are going to be really useful to writers it's going to be kind of crazy to say that writers

can't use generative AI Tools in their research or writing or whatever I agree with you about the actors that that's different I think actors should be able to control their name and likeness and make licensing deals for that that kind of stuff but but I think but I do think there's like a little bit of paranoia going on with the writer's Guild like there I think they're way too concerned that like writers rooms are going to get replaced with AI software and I just think you know this is a debate we have in other occupations as well where people are really afraid that you know AI is just going to replace all the jobs and you know I think our view is at

least for the foreseeable future it's giving more like co-pilots where it's a human working with the software not a total replacement of the human yeah yeah I think I think that's right can I ask you about um unions for a second so part of you know revitalizing maybe the movie industry but a lot of these industries is just that sometimes the cost of making these things just get really outrageously high right and you know you've probably lived on sets of movies where it's just like these cost overruns and then you get into this tricky accounting and then all of a sudden one producer is pursuing the other all of

this stuff at some level just boils down to there's just just massive cost inflation that exists that probably shouldn't exist nine people doing a job the one person Etc um just talk to us about like what is the future of that kind of stuff like how do you provide opportunity how do you protect folks but then how do you make sure that the costs don't become so exorbitant that it just kills the industry Without You noticing I think it's a really good question I mean you know I think you have to look at who who profits from all of the inefficiencies and um you know it's one of the reasons that I

feel so frustrated when I'm on set is because it's it is inefficient and it does feel like there's a lot of padding um but again you know it's this is the the systems that exist um have been in place for a really long time I I I don't really want to opine on um you know the state of unions per se I think you know I I would focus more on like if I was running efficiencies and um and I I would rather I would rather create profit for shareholders from creating efficiencies and like dealing with all of the essentially offbacks that it takes to make something like that and and and less about you know not wanting to share profits with the art

artists you as somebody who did movies in this incredible Golden Era Sundance era independent film all these incredible new directors who you got to work with and then this Golden Era of Television arrived over the last four or five years which is I'm sure you know you've enjoyed and I know your husband's uh participated in that meaningfully have you can you must have gotten tons and tons of offers because they keep trying to get movie stars to do TV shows did you ever consider any of them are there any you passed on that we could hear about and um what would what would it take to get you to do one of those TV shows like

what have you passed on I'm always interested in that my mother says who's also a great actor she says I'm never allowed to say anything about what I passed on she says it's not ladylike and I can't do it in public so I have to defer not even one okay what would it take to and have you considered it like it does seem like a moderating have you ever moderated we could use a new monitor here soon yeah can I can I ask you I assume meaning like in the next two hours when this thing is done I'm gonna can I ask you your point of view on the rules that the academy passed for qualifying for best picture um obviously they added all these

diversity rules this past year I think they were formalized this past year um and we heard from Larry Summers earlier today I know you it's a pity you weren't here because there was a lot of great conversations um but Larry said something along the lines of um you know self-esteem should come from Achievement not achievement coming you know it was I don't want to butcher it but basically we have a challenge right now that we aren't really earning um the credit we get and we risk seeing the best things not always win does the best film not win if there's a lot of new qualifying criteria

that might keep the best film out of the best picture nomination because it doesn't fit these new diversity rules how do you view that how does Hollywood behind closed doors talk about this and is this the right way to kind of um you know give the awards for the best pictures every year you know Friedberg I honestly don't even know like I feel so out of this business I don't even know about these new diversity roles uh well to get nominated can I educate myself yeah that's the whole point of the podcast all good well when you moderate these next episodes so um I'm looking forward to it I have a question which is uh back to goop for a second so you're building distribution

this is like this theme this afternoon a little bit um with Alex with you with Jimmy who we're going to talk about which is these new content creators emerge you guys create formats that engage in audience what they really give you is their trust you build these new distribution rails and then you decide Gwyneth where do you want to point those distribution is it chocolate bars in Jimmy's case is it you know merch and chess related things for Alex um I'm sure that you and your team are looking at like what are these areas that are just so brittle that can just be totally ripped apart like where new brand consideration can happen you can

establish the trust can you just give us some insight into that like what are the old laggard businesses that are just ready to get dismantled do it more from the inside out like what do where is the book base that I oh Zoom I mean it was held up pretty well so far all right with that uh we'll thank you Gwyneth Paltrow yeah amazing well done I mean it's kind of great um that she is so engaged with the Pod and yeah well I'll tell you her comment about waiting around um on a film set really resonated with me I've released a couple of movies I've

been to movie sets if Dolly and thank you for smoking congratulations smoking and if you talk to anybody who's ever visited a movie set the first thing they will say every time is there's so much waiting around it's like it's boring it's a lot more boring than he thought it was going to be and there's a huge amount of time waiting around on sets for the next you know for the next setup they have to move the lights around or whatever so you know in I'll tell you with Dolly the dolly movie we did you know they would do like an eight to ten hour shooting day I would get the the dailies which is all the material they shot you know in a link to basically like a Dropbox folder everything he shot

was two hours so you take a 10 hour shooting day you're only shooting for two hours of that and then that two hours is maybe three two or three pages of material you're watching five takes of every angle or whatever so so there is a huge amount of of just sort of boredom on a set so um I think it's really cool that cheap while thinking about this is like hey I could start a company yeah and I think your growth is one of the first to do this like 15 years ago yeah I mean she came before anybody and I think she she had a lot of iteration along along the way [Music] we open source it to the fans and

they've just gone crazy [Music] besties [Music] oh [Music]